Mad Men

[Goldfoot]

The Emmy-winning juggernaut that got AMC rolling on this hot streak of shows. At first I wasn't interested because nothing about an ad agency seemed all that compelling to me. After the first two seasons aired, I decided to check it out and see what all the fuss was about. At first the story was pretty boring, but the acting was pretty good and I decided to see where it was going. At the end of season 2, I finally found things to start leaning toward the interesting side. I watched 3 while it aired, and that was the season where things really started to pique my interest. It was like all the character development from the first two seasons FINALLY started to pay off and shit was finally going down. I quite enjoyed season 3 and was really interested to see what would happen after the finale, but was disappointed with they way they continued into season 4. They just skipped over the whole setting up a new agency part and picked up after they had a new building and plenty of clients. Season 4 had some really great episodes and I'm now looking forward to the new season, which is supposed to start in March.

I just read something interesting from Weiner. The show is only going to go on 7 seasons and he wants to end it in the present with Don being like 84. I'm not sure how I feel about that, but I'm sure I can't really decide until it happens.

[Mantra]

I got a little ways into season one (maybe half way or so) and lost interest. The acting was great, and I usually enjoy slow-paced shows, but I found the whole premise of the story to be incredibly banal.

I just don't get what people find appealing about this show.

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

I would imagine such people watched more than the first six or seven episodes of the first season.

[littlemonkey613]

Season 4 was by far my favorite, which makes sense since Peggy Olson is my favorite character. I love everything about this show. March is too far o.o

[Mantra]

I would imagine such people watched more than the first six or seven episodes of the first season.

Yeah, I know. I just had a hard time sticking with it without understanding what the payoff was supposed to be. Not that I'm looking for plot spoilers. I mean in a more general sense, I don't completely understand what people find so compelling about these stories.

Anyway, my roommate said he wants to check this out, so I'll probably join him and see if it clicks with me this time around.

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

What do you want the 'payoff' to be? What is the show supposed to do for you?

[laci]

Watched the first three seasons, totally loved the whole thing. I really need to see the new episodes, right? :)

[Hula]

Yeah, I know. I just had a hard time sticking with it without understanding what the payoff was supposed to be. Not that I'm looking for plot spoilers. I mean in a more general sense, I don't completely understand what people find so compelling about these stories.

The same reason people like watching TV shows set in contemporary times dealing with people's day-to-day lives, I guess? Are you the sort that prefers action or sci-fi?

It's not much different from watching a show like Six Feet Under or Brothers & Sisters.

[Harry Seaward]

It was pretty interesting I guess. It kept me interested enough to watch all 4 seasons in a few days, so it must have something going for it because I have the attention span of...

[Goldfoot]

Yeah, I know. I just had a hard time sticking with it without understanding what the payoff was supposed to be. Not that I'm looking for plot spoilers. I mean in a more general sense, I don't completely understand what people find so compelling about these stories.

Well, for me it has to do with the characters. Like I said, the idea of an ad agency didn't seem interesting to me, and the day to day business there isn't that gripping. If you stick with it and get to know the characters, it becomes pretty interesting as their stories go on. Even though the dealings of the ad agency aren't particularly engaging to me, the way the characters handle things and interact with each other is entertaining.

[Mantra]

What do you want the 'payoff' to be? What is the show supposed to do for you?

I don't have any preconceived notion of what the payoff is supposed to be. I guess I just had a hard time understanding what's appealing about the concept. I would watch it and start to get kind of bored and think "What do people find so interesting about this? am I missing something?"


The same reason people like watching TV shows set in contemporary times dealing with people's day-to-day lives, I guess? Are you the sort that prefers action or sci-fi?

No, not really. I've been on a television binge lately, since I finally have time to watch a series now that I graduated from college. I watched The Wire and Breaking Bad, and I decided to try this one out since a lot of people seem to like it a lot, but it just didn't work for me.


Well, for me it has to do with the characters. Like I said, the idea of an ad agency didn't seem interesting to me, and the day to day business there isn't that gripping. If you stick with it and get to know the characters, it becomes pretty interesting as their stories go on. Even though the dealings of the ad agency aren't particularly engaging to me, the way the characters handle things and interact with each other is entertaining.

Cool. I'll give it another shot. Your feelings about the ad agency not being very gripping are similar to how I felt, so if you still managed to find the show engaging, maybe I will too.

[dlb]

I really fell in love with this show and can't wait for season 5!
Having worked in advertising for quite some time I can definately realte to some things here and there, so the advertising stuff that is shown really sticks with me and I think they did a great job so far incorporating the different campaigns and products into the story lines (think Lucky Strike and Glowcoat) with Draper/Hamm breathing life into these ideas and concepts. I just love it when he's presenting a new idea to his clients.
Other than that the style really appeals to me and the overall depiction of people lifing their lives. And while some things are pretty exaggerated such as Don's love life (he's been dating like 10 different women in season 4 alone? c'mon.) I still find myself coming back to it and wanting to see more. I even bought the book from Jerry Della Famina on which the show is based on, but I haven't gotten around to read it yet. I don't know, I just really like to seep into this show and I'm curious where the producers will take the characters, especially after last seaon's final two episodes.

[littlemonkey613]

I got a little ways into season one (maybe half way or so) and lost interest. The acting was great, and I usually enjoy slow-paced shows, but I found the whole premise of the story to be incredibly banal.

I just don't get what people find appealing about this show.

Mmm A lot of people go into this show looking for epic plotting like Breaking Bad and The Wire, but this just isn't that type of show. That's also why its my favorite. It's really character driven. Their development is slow and subtle but it really is satisfying to watch, at least for me. You'll be surprised how much you missed in those first few episodes if you go back and re watch it after your done with all 4 seasons, if you choose to do so. It's really quite incredible. These are some of the most well rounded characters I've ever had the pleasure of watching, and I've never gotten such a kick out of such small details. I've watched it like 3 times now and I still pick up on things I missed from the first season. It's just really cool making judgements about characters and thinking you know them , then taking back all your thoughts because you didn't quite understand where they came from.

But yeah all the entertainment in this show comes from how characters interact with one another. The story never picks-up, but its not meant to. The pace and tone are pretty deliberate.

[chris]

The show is very character driven, and it does an incredible job of that. But for me, the real draw is the history. The point in time in which the series is set is, I think, very deliberate. It really represents the high point of the "American century". 20 years after the U.S. won World War II, in which that generation (represented by Roger Sterling) has reached the height of power, they're still riding that economic wave and living it so lavishly that it borders on ridiculous, at least compared to the present day. They're job is to schmooze and come up with slogans to sell shit at a time when everybody's buying. It's like the height of power for the white male American, but the show has hinted at so many of the tumultuous changes of the late that 60s that are just on the precipice (female empowerment, sexual freedom, divorce, drugs, Vietnam, music, the rise of large corporations, socialism vs. capitalism, and so on). The end is clearly at hand for Sterling in the show, and certainly all these issues weigh heavily on Draper. I've never really read any interviews with Matt Weiner about the show, but the setting is so deliberate, I can't help but think that that is what he's trying to get across, to portray the crest of the wave, so to speak. And because the show is so character driven, you can't help but feel compassion (or contempt, depending on the character) with regards to how all these larger societal aspects will affect them. Watch one of those washed out corporate knock-offs like Pan-Am and you'll see that's what's missing. The imitation is NOT flattering.

One of my favorite quotes from the show which really sums things up:
Crab Colson: Oh, it had nothing to do with Kennedy. Still, all that vigor disappeared when he found out he couldn’t get anything done. It’s Versailles. Jackie smiling all over the world, he’s chasing starlets.
Don Draper: Everybody’s happy.
Crab: I’m building a bomb shelter.
(from Season 2, Episode 6 "Maidenform")

[Goldfoot]

You'll be surprised how much you missed in those first few episodes if you go back and re watch it after your done with all 4 seasons, if you choose to do so.

Like Salvatore being gay. They hint at this in the very first episode, but I don't recall when it's actually revealed. I rewatched some of Season 1 when I was at a friends over the summer and you are right, it is really neat to pick up on little things you didn't notice before. I'm probably going to do a full rewatch before the show comes back in March. How about The Suitcase? Wow.

[littlemonkey613]

Like Salvatore being gay. How about The Suitcase? Wow.

I'm re-watching the series with my mom because she has never seen it before. We are almost at The Suitcase, and I cannot wait. I can barely think of a better hour of Television, the writing is just so amazing.

[Pemulis]

The new poster is fucking rad:

http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men/mm5-key-art-700.jpg

[littlemonkey613]

I literally cannot wait for March 25th.

[orestes]

I got a little ways into season one (maybe half way or so) and lost interest. The acting was great, and I usually enjoy slow-paced shows, but I found the whole premise of the story to be incredibly banal.

I just don't get what people find appealing about this show.

If the Kodak Carousel scene doesn't draw you in, then I don't know what will.

[Hula]

I literally cannot wait for March 25th.

Every time I see someone watching episodes on Get Glue or whatever, I flip out and think it's the new season. Turns out they're just watching old ones in the run-up :/

I really hope this season is good. It always feels like things falter a little when they've had such a long break, and as great as Mad Men is it has a lot of potential to flag if the writers don't consistently hit the right note. With such long-running story arcs, it's not the sort of thing where they can move on from a dud plotline within a few episodes.

[icklekitty]

The new poster is fucking rad:

http://blogs.amctv.com/mad-men/mm5-key-art-700.jpg

Mad Men being promoted with CMNF imagery?


Oh boy, I'd better stock up on tissues.

[chris]

So excited to see what point in time they start this season: 1966? 1967? 1968? I'm salivating at the possibilities.

[orestes]

I would assume 1967 since the series is set in two-year intervals.

[richardp]

I could never get into Mad Men nearly as much as everyone else, I mean I really liked it, but I didn't LOVE it. But, maybe since it's been off the air for so long, I don't know, but I'm super excited to see it come back.

[chris]

Hmm, 1967: Vietnam, Israeli War, race riots. Someone needs to go to the Summer of Love for sure. Don Draper is like the thinking man's Forrest Gump. I hope it doesn't last long with the horse-teeth secretary.

[icklekitty]

I could never get into Mad Men nearly as much as everyone else, I mean I really liked it, but I didn't LOVE it. But, maybe since it's been off the air for so long, I don't know, but I'm super excited to see it come back.

Try watching it with the sound off.

[orestes]

Zoo be zoo be zoo!

[ltrandazzo]

Again, Don Draper is a fucking moron. Megan is excellent.

[orestes]

Did you catch the Dick Whitman bit?

[ltrandazzo]

Yarp. Amy and I were looking at each other and wondering when that happened. Very interesting stuff.

[chris]

So to be clear, he never told Megan about Dick Whitman? That's what I had thought, but my wife said he told her last season. It's been so long I can't remember. Anyway, I'm coming around to Megan. I loved the bit at the end when she was doing the dominatrix cleaning lady part and says something like "YOU sit over there and watch you old man, you can't handle this". Also, when Sterling comes into the hallway when Joan arrives, "Let me see my baby!" Classic. I don't know when this was written, but the intro where they're throwing water out of the building onto the protesters reminded me of last fall when the traders were throwing money (or something, I don't remember what) out of the windows onto the occupy protesters. So glad this show is back.

[littlemonkey613]

I feel like a fool and a sexist fuck for disliking Megan right off the bat just for being Don's new woman. She's so awesome and Don can go die.
What an excellent episode. The past hung over every scene.

[Piko]

Did you catch the Dick Whitman bit?

I must have left the room or something. Because I completely missed that? Was it subtle?

[orestes]

Yeah, Megan mentioned it to Don when he was in the bedroom being pouty after the party.

[Piko]

Damn. Completely blanked out on that I guess. Maybe ill try watching it again.

[sweeterthan]

I liked the episode but I do think they're glossing over things that have happened while they've been gone. We don't get to see when Roger finds out about Joan having a baby and how that was dealt with. We also don't get to see Megan finding out about Dick Whitman or how soon she and Don get married. I thought with two hours they'd at least touch on that stuff. Instead, it was just a drawn out episode.

[Piko]

Dunno. Seemed fine to me. Especially, when there was a bit of a gap between seasons. So because of that, I really didn't mind it too much. Granted, it would've been better for some of the things to have been shown. I'm fine with it though.

[icklekitty]

Perhaps there will be flashbacks?

I enjoy Mad Men more for choice moments than overall episode structure, anyway. Loved the part where Joan brought the baby into the office (Roger and Pete's reactions especially) and the scene at Megan's place where she was trying to clean up after the party.

[Piko]

Doubt it. They didn't do flashbacks before, so I highly doubt they'll start now. And Roger's reaction to the baby was pretty ace, heh.

[ltrandazzo]

Doubt it. They didn't do flashbacks before, so I highly doubt they'll start now. And Roger's reaction to the baby was pretty ace, heh.

They have done flashbacks before, mostly to Don's time as Dick Whitman and other instances throughout his life. I wouldn't rule it out.

[orestes]

I liked the episode but I do think they're glossing over things that have happened while they've been gone. We don't get to see when Roger finds out about Joan having a baby and how that was dealt with. We also don't get to see Megan finding out about Dick Whitman or how soon she and Don get married. I thought with two hours they'd at least touch on that stuff. Instead, it was just a drawn out episode.

Don and Megan have been married three months.

[dpeters]

Doubt it. They didn't do flashbacks before, so I highly doubt they'll start now. And Roger's reaction to the baby was pretty ace, heh.
Aside from the dozens of flashbacks to Don/Dick's background.

[ltrandazzo]

Aside from the dozens of flashbacks to Don/Dick's background.

And when we saw Don visit Peggy in the hospital after she gave birth.

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

I liked the episode but I do think they're glossing over things that have happened while they've been gone.
Well, the season did just begin, and there are eleven episodes remaining to cover that ground.

[dpeters]

And when we saw Don visit Peggy in the hospital after she gave birth.

I forgot that one.

[littlemonkey613]

Well, the season did just begin, and there are eleven episodes remaining to cover that ground.

Has anyone else noticed that this is a pretty consistent thing on Mad Men though? I've noticed throughout the seasons they'll skip something juicy and dramatic that other shows would undoubtedly make a whole episode out of in favor of something unexpected that expresses the theme of the episode.

[Jadezuki]

Fun fact: that bit with the waterbombing actually happened.

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

Yep, including—according to the New York Times—the woman's line, "And they call us savages."

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FB0B12F83D55117B93CAAB178ED85F42 8685F9&scp=2&sq=%22they%20call%20us%20savages%22&st=cse (behind paywall)

[botley]

Don't wanna shit on anybody's parade who likes this show; I've never seen it. My friend just pointed out this critique (http://bit.ly/enA7SV) and I thought it was interesting.

[littlemonkey613]

Don't wanna shit on anybody's parade who likes this show; I've never seen it. My friend just pointed out this critique (http://bit.ly/enA7SV) and I thought it was interesting.

God that was hard to get through. I got some great lols though. Even his critique makes the show look complex, ambiguous and interesting! Mad Men is so good you can't shit on it without promoting it.

[dpeters]

Don't wanna shit on anybody's parade who likes this show; I've never seen it. My friend just pointed out this critique (http://bit.ly/enA7SV) and I thought it was interesting. It's not a very well-thought review and, to counter its earliest contention, a lot of the commercialization and product tie-ins came much later.

The characters and their interpersonal relationships are incredibly nuanced--especially characters like Joan and Peggy, who'd be friends in lesser writers' hands but instead posses conflicting worldviews. Saying the design is all the show has going for it is a cop out. Let me go on to explain why I dislike this review. :D

Let's start:

"Worst of all—in a drama with aspirations to treating social and historical “issues”—the show is melodramatic rather than dramatic. By this I mean that it proceeds, for the most part, like a soap opera, serially (and often unbelievably) generating, and then resolving, successive personal crises (adulteries, abortions, premarital pregnancies, interracial affairs, alcoholism and drug addiction, etc.), rather than exploring, by means of believable conflicts between personality and situation, the contemporary social and cultural phenomena it regards with such fascination: sexism, misogyny, social hypocrisy, racism, the counterculture, and so forth."
Very few crises like this are actually resolved and many of the underlying issues come back each season. Some themes are dealt with on a very human level, rather sticking to the pastiche of time or anachronistically beating our brow.

A seemingly idiotic passage from the review:

"(In the kind of cultural winking in which the show’s creators like to indulge, the small town in which Dick Whitman’s family await his body is called “Bunbury”—the term that the male leads in Oscar Wilde’s Importance of Being Earnest use for their double lives.)"

Motherfucker, it's called an allusion. An entry-level Humanities or Literature course could've spelled that one out. Fucking James Joyce would be considered a tragedy if allusions to other works are somehow cultural indulgences (not to say that James Joyce wasn't indulgent at times--but he was also damn clever and his thoughtfulness showed, just like the writers in Mad Men.) Having an allusion demonstrates understanding of the literary medium and can be used as shorthand for other themes. What makes an allusion well-played is whether it is subtle.

The reference to the train station was subtle--not "on the nose" indulgent as the author suggests. It was there for a flash--not shoved in the audience's face. It rewarded repeated viewing and analysis to see why that allusion was used too.

The author's conclusion are similarly weak:

"To my mind, the picture is too crude and the artist too pleased with himself. In Mad Men, everyone chain-smokes, every executive starts drinking before lunch, every man is a chauvinist pig, every male employee viciously competitive and jealous of his colleagues, every white person a reflexive racist (when not irritatingly patronizing). It’s not that you don’t know that, say, sexism was rampant in the workplace before the feminist movement; it’s just that, on the screen, the endless succession of leering junior execs and crude jokes and abusive behavior all meant to signal “sexism” doesn’t work—it’s wearying rather than illuminating."

Sweeping generalizations like this make for a very, very weak thesis.


It's as if Salvatore Romano doesn't exist, the young ad men Don brings in are not the chauvinist pigs everyone claims (even more regular characters like Crane aren't women chasers, though he does drunkenly sleep with his secretary--and is incredibly embarrassed),
Don (for all his misogyny) doesn't sleep with every female (in fact, the lack of sex between Joan and him has some rather developed character reasons, tying into my next point),
the competing camps of feminism represented by Peggy, Joan, and Betty don't exist, etc.
Reflexive racism? Does the author mean Roger's blackface was a postmodern, subtle form of racism? Was it really well-meaning racism? I can understand the charge leveled against the character Paul Kinsey--but that's not there for its own sake, his character is self-conscious and pretentious and exudes that "well-meaning" racism. The forms of racism expressed come in a number of ways, just as sexism is explored on a number of different levels.
Not everyone participates in the sexism and it is expressed in a number of different ways: from the obvious sexual harassment of Roger, to the more subtle paternalism between Peggy and Don (i.e. he promotes her based on merit but will passively aggressively hold it over her head).

Overall, the author comes across as condescending--like an English professor who says writers can't have x, y, z events in their plot due to being overused.

Mad Men does use cliched plot devices of soap opera but re-contextualizes and deepens them through thoughtful character relationship dynamics. Tropes are subverted or explored so fully that calling them a cliche is insulting to the writers (Don/Dick and the backstory is handled quite well and is more than a plot device--it's explored and has lasting, uneasy ramifications through his life, season after season--and he does slowly work on it.)

[orestes]

Well, that was an interesting show of Don fighting his id.

[littlemonkey613]

I can't believe I'm saying this but that was the best episode to date. Period.

I can't believe how gracefully, intelligently and powerfully the main theme of violence against women was explored and executed. I'm so unbelievably touched. Fuck.

[Harry Seaward]

I feel like a fool and a sexist fuck for disliking Megan right off the bat just for being Don's new woman. She's so awesome and Don can go die.

Seriously. If Don hurts her, I swear to god I'll kick his ass.

[Harry Seaward]

Was the newest episode one of the most hilarious yet, or was that just me?

[Piko]

Oh, I thought it was absolutely hilarious. The entire season (so far) has been pretty funny. This one was great though.

[orestes]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17jsg9nnql9ldjpg/original.jpg

[chris]

"The moment that I raise my hands, I warn you, it shall be too late to run"

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-1HGC-_FO7XE/T45qqk3dB5I/AAAAAAAAAjk/U8RaFqoA-mY/s640/MadMen-Punchout.jpg

A few weeks old, but the "Betty is back" promo is awesome.
http://youtu.be/PXMdxKHm67Q

[bobbie solo]

i laughed so much my friend was looking at me funny and told me to shut up.

[owinn]

I love Pryce to bits, a very un-english stereotype. When Pryce and Draper made a spontaneous decision to get shitfaced on New Year's was my all time favourite moment. Steak groin was hilarious.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsczyxZK_g4

From working in one of these agencies for over a year, it's odd to watch this sometimes though. Mainly because the more I watch it, the more I realise that a whole heap of things haven't changed much - the drinking culture and shagging around in particular... it's a big deal apparently, imagine having your office christmas party every other month. Also did someone say they didn't realise Salvator was gay until repeat viewings?! That was hinted at strongly from the first episode!

[Goldfoot]

These last two episodes have been great. Peggy standing up to Roger was a nice surprise and that little exchange between the new guy and Ken at the bar was hilarious.

(about Don) "He's a decent Guy"
"You know, you almost got fired just now."
"I don't think you're right about that."

Then my friend told me how the most recent episode was very Pete-oriented and that was discouraging. I still think Mad Men needs to kill him off. It wasn't a good episode for Pete, though, so that made it better. What the fuck was up with him hitting on that high school chick? I've liked Pryce for a while now, but kicking Pete's ass was icing on the cake.


Also did someone say they didn't realise Salvator was gay until repeat viewings?! That was hinted at strongly from the first episode!

If you are referring to me, that is not at all what I said. I said that going back through, I found it interesting that they did hint at it in the very first episode. I picked up on it immediately in my first run-through, but I watched 3 seasons back to back and forgot in which episodes certain things happened. I also didn't remember that they revealed Don's real identity as soon as they did.

Edit: Oh, and Pryce being all pleased, "I don't know if you heard, but England won the World Cup." He totally didn't let it bother him when Roger was like, "Cup of what?" He just went on with what he had to say. Great exchange.

[jessamineny]

http://vimeo.com/20465929

"Video comprising one episode of Madmen incompletely downloaded from the internet via bittorrent. The video has been linearly edited, no digital effects were used and all jump cuts and repeats are in the corrupted file."

[chris]

I never thought I would ever enjoy watching corrupted video, but that was extremely cool.

[orestes]

Tonight's episode was definitely strange and that's not just the LSD talking.

[miss k bee]

Good that Megan is standing up to Don though. Ha Roger on LSD!

[littlemonkey613]

"Yes MASTER!"

<3 Megan.

Not sure how I feel about the romanticization of Don's violence. Bro you think your Edward Rochester or Heathcliff? Away with yee swine.

[sweeterthan]

My feelings about Don and his womanizing change from week to week. Last week, I thought maybe he had changed bc of Megan. This week, not so much. They NEVER change, Megan!

[Jadezuki]

I don't know that they're romanticizing Don and his nasty, violent side. I don't think we're supposed to like him very much at all, at this point.

[Jadezuki]

Also, I am probably a terrible person for laughing at this, but it's been stuck in my head for well over a week:


http://youtu.be/ulC0Lerkkbc

[icklekitty]

"Yes MASTER!"


Not gonna lie; was really jealous of Megan when she said that.

[owinn]

I don't know that they're romanticizing Don and his nasty, violent side. I don't think we're supposed to like him very much at all, at this point.
I hope Don becomes one of the most dislikable people in Mad Men and indeed in TV just so that all the assholes who I've met who work in advertising and marketing who think they are this guy, who have actually started basing their business and lives around this character understand that they are all a bunch of dickholes - even if they are "flawed individuals". /notbitter ;)

[Goldfoot]

So I don't have cable and thus have to torrent this show. I'm watching and I realize it's 53 minutes instead of 47. "Score" I think to myself, since it seemed like a really good episode and I was enjoying the split/overlapping narrative. It gets to the part where Don drives away from HoJo and after the "commercial" break, BAM! Jennifer Love Hewitt and that new Lifetime series she's in. After a short bit of confusion, I realized that if I just skipped ahead, the rest of the episode was there. It was still pretty jarring, and kind of funny.

It was a pretty good episode, though. Each of the three had their own sort of trip, and each one ended on a pretty down note. . I actually laughed out loud when Roger opened the vodka and smoked his cigarette. After a slow start this season, the show is definitely rolling along right now.

[Harry Seaward]

So I don't have cable and thus have to torrent this show. I'm watching and I realize it's 53 minutes instead of 47. "Score" I think to myself, since it seemed like a really good episode and I was enjoying the split/overlapping narrative. It gets to the part where Don drives away from HoJo and after the "commercial" break, BAM! Jennifer Love Hewitt and that new Lifetime series she's in. After a short bit of confusion, I realized that if I just skipped ahead, the rest of the episode was there. It was still pretty jarring, and kind of funny.

Dude, I downloaded that same fucking rip. I didn't know the rest of the episode was still there. I thought I just got trolled.

[chris]

Nothing too radical, just classic mad men dialogue. Megan just keeps getting more badass, it kind of worries me.

Best exchange:
Roger: Who knows why people in history do good things? For all we know, Jesus was trying to get the loaves and fishes account.
Don: My in-laws don’t think I’m Jesus.
Roger: They’ll be clapping and cheering, they won’t know you’re a hippocrite.
Don: Megan’s father is a communist. He’s a socialist or a Maoist or some ideology that makes him hate me and what I do. Plus, you know, I’m sleeping with his daughter.
Roger: So he’ll see you shaking hands. You know, it’s very interesting, a lot of times, you think people are looking at you, but they’re not, their mind is elsewhere.
Don: Lots of people that haven’t taken LSD already know that.

Also, Roger to Megan’s mom: I’d buy you a drink, but I think they’re still free.
Sally and Glen: How’s the city? Dirty.

[orestes]

Me and Sally share a similar incident, except I was six at the time. >_<

[Goldfoot]

Me and Sally share a similar incident, except I was six at the time. >_<

That is incredibly unfortunate. :(

As I was watching the episode just now, I was talking to my friend:

Me: I don't know why but Ken shhhshing his wife was hilarious to me
Me: Probably because of her timing
Him: they should have her turn into a pile of metallic goo
Him: just once
Me: Hahahaha. That actually made me laugh out loud.
Him: doesn't even have to be a big thing
Him: background, easter egg style

[profane]

"Don there's nothing you can do. No matter what, one day your little girl will spread her legs and fly away."
And Rogers laugh with it had me going for a couple of scenes, I had to rewind. I was in stitches.

[Harry Seaward]

All of the death imagery in the newer episodes is scaring me.

[littlemonkey613]

Glad to see Don and Peggy are back in form. What a scene.

[Jadezuki]

"Pizza house!"

[Goldfoot]

"Pizza house!"

I believe once you edit, you can make it all caps.

Here's my thoughts:

A) Fuck Pete Campbell
B) They suddenly have a payphone and they have to show two people using it in the same episode?
C) "We can't get the Beatles"
D) FUCK Pete Campbell
E) Hell yeah Peggy standing up to Don, and him not having any sort of response.
F) This is very funny to me.
G) Pete needs to kill himself so he'll be off the show.
H)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkkMz2awmbI

Edit: Sorry to post two videos in one reply, but I can't control the fact that it auto-embeds them and this is worth sharing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkIPwx7_6Vg&feature=youtu.be

[chris]

-The contrast between Betty & Megan was really heightened this week, not just with the obvious behavioral differences, but also in style. Cutting from Megan wearing pants in that city apt to Betty wearing a dress in that dark mansion.
-I don’t watch a lot of drama, and so I’m sure this is more common than I know, but wow do the newcomers (Megan and Ginsberg) really inject a lot of freshness into the show. Their ambition seems to be making everyone sweat.
-Is it commonplace in TV drama to have what seem like such short scenes? So many scenes are nothing more than an elevator ride, yet the glaring looks and loaded dialogue impart so much. Finally, I’ve been watching this show for a while now, but I think it just dawned on me how the show mostly consists of really bad people who occasionally do the right thing, which is kind of the opposite of what I had always thought shows tried to portray. You might have a few bad apples in the cast, but the majority of characters in a “normal” show are good people who occasionally do the wrong thing. It’s very difficult to find empathy for anyone on this show. It reminds me of the Sopranos, which I think is where Weiner made his bones.

Some favorite lines:
Pete: I spend an hour on the phone last night talking to my new best friend at the New York Times.
Roger: Are you getting a paper route?

(paraphrased)
Roger: Will you come to a business dinner with me?
Jane: Will you buy me a new apartment?
Roger: This is becoming the most expensive dinner in history. But fine, yes.
Jane: Have your lawyer contact my lawyer about dinner.
Roger: I feel like one of us should be saying thank you.

I can't understand why some of you want to kill off Roger or Pete for being assholes. The whole show is assholes.

[littlemonkey613]

^WAIT thats so awesome I literally was telling a friend today "wow I used to think this show was good people behaving badly this episode made me think, nah they are just bad people..." hahahaa.

[dlb]

Personally speaking this show is all about Roger for me. But yeah, you have a few good points there. I guess that's exactly what keeps this show interesting for me as basically there is no real plot to follow.

I'm behind two episodes so I'll make myself a nice triple feature this Sunday or even Monday. :)

[Archive_Reports]

Midway through season two...it took me a while, but I'm really starting to enjoy this show.

[richardp]

Holy fuck has this season been incredible. I'd never been 100% sold on this show until this season.

[bobbie solo]

"I feel sorry for you"

"I dont even think about you"

[Piko]

"I feel sorry for you"

"I dont even think about you"

When he said that that, my jaw dropped. Personally, I.can't stand the guy. So for Don to put him in his place like that, it was pretty awesome.

[chris]

I didn't like Ginsberg either at first, much like Megan. But both are a lot like Peggy in that they are minorities able to break into the spheres of influence of these powerful white men and work hard to stake their own claim. Don and Roger are both profiting from and at the same time clearly threatened by the new talent, which when Roger and Don started, wasn't even a consideration. So both new characters have grown on me considerably in that they are (like Peggy) pushing this overall message of the decline of the WASP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Anglo-Saxon_Protestant) male.

"I got a million of these lines. A million."
"I guess its good you work for me then."

[miss k bee]

I think Roger is amazing this season

[Goldfoot]

I can't understand why some of you want to kill off Roger or Pete for being assholes. The whole show is assholes.

It's not just that Pete's an asshole. As you said, and as should be apparently to anyone who watches the show, most of the characters are assholes. It's that very reason that took me two full seasons to get into it. I didn't care about what was going on. I'm not going to be able to give specifics right now, but Peter has just been a consistent, loathsome part of the show for me. It doesn't help that the actor's character in Angel was the worst thing to happen in any TV show I've ever watched. He's just the worst. I don't want Roger to go anywhere, though. And I know the character Peter is there to create the tension he is, and work to shift the power in the agency. The writers have the character performing his function, there just doesn't seem to be one redeeming quality about him, when each other character seems to have at least one.

[dpeters]

It's not just that Pete's an asshole. As you said, and as should be apparently to anyone who watches the show, most of the characters are assholes. It's that very reason that took me two full seasons to get into it. I didn't care about what was going on. I'm not going to be able to give specifics right now, but Peter has just been a consistent, loathsome part of the show for me. It doesn't help that the actor's character in Angel was the worst thing to happen in any TV show I've ever watched. He's just the worst. I don't want Roger to go anywhere, though. And I know the character Peter is there to create the tension he is, and work to shift the power in the agency. The writers have the character performing his function, there just doesn't seem to be one redeeming quality about him, when each other character seems to have at least one.
I thought Pete had some redeeming qualities in earlier episodes. I definitely hated his character at first though.

He's one of the few people who actually speaks to the otherwise silent staff like the elevator operator, Hollis (who may even be unnamed in the episode)--even asking for Hollis' opinion. Granted, it was in relation toward targeting a new demographic.

[gini]

Anyone seen the latest episode? After this episode, all I can think is how Don going to act or behave. It kind of takes me back to the last season when his identity was really close to being revealed and he had a breakdown but at the end of the season, he was ok. I think he'll be ok but not sure if the liquor is going to help. I'm bummed though.

[Piko]

Pete's one of those guys there that's there for you to want to hate. He's an.obnoxious douche. But, he does it well. He's arrogant and self-centered; only thinks about himself. For that, I like Pete. He's consistently been "that guy" for five seasons. He's there to be "that son of a bitch". And he does a great job at doing that.

[sweeterthan]

I hated the part with Joan. I don't think she should've have done it. Reading comments elsewhere, some say that she did what she had to do and that shaming her for it is wrong.

[Piko]

Yeah, that Joan part was Egh... but, it really did seem like she did it because she had to. She's a single mother now afterall.

[Goldfoot]

And people were questioning why I loathe Peter. Fuck him. Fuck him in the ass.

[ltrandazzo]

Did anyone else scream "DON'T WALK INTO THE ELEVATOR PEGGY IT'S NOT THERE YOU'RE GONNA DIE!!!!!" like I did last night?

[littlemonkey613]

PEGGY AND DON AND MY HEART!!!!!

Don and Peggy's interaction has been my favorite aspect of the show. I hope their friendship continues. My lord that goodbye was so heartfelt and full of emotion :(.

[Piko]

Hope she comes back. I still remember her reaction when Don decided to marry Megan. Didn't seem too happy. So everytime Peggy caught an attitude with him, I figured that it was jealousy of Megan and Don.

[neorev]

Did anyone else scream "DON'T WALK INTO THE ELEVATOR PEGGY IT'S NOT THERE YOU'RE GONNA DIE!!!!!" like I did last night?

Hahaha, agreed! Me and my girl thought the same thing!

Yeah I was waiting for Peggy to be like...
"Oh yeah, look at me... Don's upset I'm leaving and begging me to stay. I got a new job. I'm getting paid more. I am the woman! Hear me roar.
I'm getting my life togethAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAH!!!"

[dlb]

Did anyone else scream "DON'T WALK INTO THE ELEVATOR PEGGY IT'S NOT THERE YOU'RE GONNA DIE!!!!!" like I did last night?

Haha, I haven't seen Monday's episode, but what was the deal anyway with that empty elevator last week? Didn't get.

Also can anyone explain to me why Don was shifting so furiously through the gears last episode? I try to watch the show in English as often as I can, but every now and then some of those smaller notions slip my mind. Thanks!

[Magtig]

Damn, that last episode was ugly. I applaud the show for pulling no punches, but I feel like I need to take a shower now.

Peggy did the right thing, but I really hope she's not off the show. She's by far my favorite character.

[Piko]

Well, that was pretty fucking dark... kinda bummed now.

[Harry Seaward]

Well, holy cow.

[dlb]

I really wonder how they will close this show next season (or even with the 7th). The last weeks passed by so fast I still can't believe that there is only one episode left this year.

[Magtig]

Lane did two things right:
1) Beat the shit out of Pete
2) Hang himself

Goodbye mildly likable character. You're no Peggy, but you didn't annoy me. RIP

[Piko]

When Lane put Pete down, I laughed. He had his moments. But, for the most part, he was just kinda there. But last night, I realized that I guess I did care. Thing about Mad Men that I love is the fact that there's characters in the show that make you want to care about them. I felt bad for Lane.

Peggy leaving was a huge loss. Lane just went out in the worst way possible, I guess.

[chris]

I love this show but it's almost getting too depressing to watch.

[orestes]

Lane did two things right:
1) Beat the shit out of Pete
2) Hang himself

Goodbye mildly likable character. You're no Peggy, but you didn't annoy me. RIP

A couple of things people may be unaware of: the Tapatalk app for the forum shows the latest posts in unread topics, so even though I had every intention of avoiding this thread until I watched last night's episode today, this detail was spoiled for me. :/

[Magtig]

A couple of things people may be unaware of: the Tapatalk app for the forum shows the latest posts in unread topics, so even though I had every intention of avoiding this thread until I watched last night's episode today, this detail was spoiled for me. :/
Oh, sorry about that; I had no idea. Maybe the spoiler policy should be modified a little? As I understand it posting about an episode after it airs is fine without spoiler tags (I think I've seen Tony mention it a few times).

[chris]

Don: What happened to your Enlightenment?
Roger: It wore off.

[dlb]

Wow, that was pretty horrible to watch, but still a very good episode. This season is the darkest by far.

I never really liked Lane, but I always felt sorry for him and I liked him as a character to the show. Then again Don did the right thing and Lane should've been greatful. This kind of stuff usually goes a nasty route. But it's still bad how things have ended. Wonder how they will close this season.

Oh and btw: I rewatched some of the earlier episodes and I really miss Sal. :(

[Piko]

Sal was awesome. Was sad to see him go. It was around then I began to realize that anyone could really leave at anytime.

[chris]

If anyone's looking for some seriously deep analysis, this writer's recaps are awesome.
http://www.salon.com/writer/nelle_engoron/

[miss k bee]

Crumbs!! Dark episode!. I knew what was going to happen from a spoiler on another forum that said it would be graphic but still was not expecting that!

[orestes]

Oh, sorry about that; I had no idea. Maybe the spoiler policy should be modified a little? As I understand it posting about an episode after it airs is fine without spoiler tags (I think I've seen Tony mention it a few times).

Yeah, you didn't break any rules but I guess some things can't be avoided. :/

My god, the look on Don's face when they saw Lane's purple-hued body. I wonder if it made him remember Adam?

[richardp]

Yeah that entire scene, with them popping up on the couch and coming down looking horrified, it was rough. But Adam? Jog my memory. I'm not remembering that, for some reason.

[orestes]

Dick's brother that he brushed off and who ultimately hung himself.

[chris]

Shit I forgot his brother hung himself too. The look on Don's face when they told him, fuckin A. When I rewatched it I realized he told Lane to "take the weekend, think of an elegant exit." Wow. A lot of bad shit happens on this show, but that was hands down the worst. I'm almost scared to watch the repercussions next week. In the recaps I referenced from Salon, the writer pointed out a couple episodes ago how oppressive the tax rates were in England during that time, referencing the Beatles "Taxman".

[dlb]

Yeah I knew about it before, too, but that scene still had a huge impact. Like you said, the guys laughing about in the room next door and then getting on the couch to look over the wall.... phew.


What I don't get at all is that Ginsberg character. They really set him up nicely and even introduced his creepy father, but then? Nothing was added to that. Maybe they will give him more time in season 6 with him becoming the new Peggy. Anyone else feel like this?

[Piko]

Hope Peggy hasn't left the show for good. Been a great character from the start. Complete evolution of her character in the five seasons. Hopefully she comes back.

Ginsberg is annoying, but in a good way. He's arrogant and obnoxious, and it works. I'd only imagine he'd be the one to replace Peggy.

[orestes]

According to Jared Harris, yes (http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/06/05/060512-arts-jared-harris-ruiz/).

[Piko]

According to Jared Harris, yes (http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/06/05/060512-arts-jared-harris-ruiz/).

He didn't seem too sure about Peggy.

[littlemonkey613]

Don/Peggy interaction always reduces me to this state. http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq12/ashleyy_mariee2/rainbow.jpgALSO WELCOME BACK MR DRAPER

[Harry Seaward]

No caption necessary.


http://i.imgur.com/Vt9Td.png

[dlb]

Not a great, but a good finale to one of the best seasons yet IMHO. Roger's the man and especially with Nancy Sinatra's you only live twice playing in the back (although there is a better version of that song)! :D

[icklekitty]

I smiled at that because it was also sampled in Robbie Williams's Millenium (from an era which has a general James Bond theme).

I thought it was quite an anticlimactic finale given last week's episode. A lot of parts gave me promise for next season, though.

[dlb]

Williams' "cover" is a guilty pleasure of mine so I can hear you.

The Sinatra version is from '67 afaik so it fits the time frame of the show. I guess they used the Bond theme version though as there is another one that is a bit more orchestrated and feels more epic and which I prefer. Still a top notch choice for that last scene.

[miss k bee]

Roger just gets cooler.

I feel the finale showed the beginning of the end for Megan and Don. Megan's mum is a old fox.

[Piko]

Kinda figured that was the end of Don and Megan. The way they had him walking away. Then the ladies in the bar. I wouldn't be surprised if they'll be divorced by the next season premiere.

[neorev]

I first heard these strings in an old early 90's rave song...

Acen - Trip II The Moon (Part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAO2AXWp30E
Skip to 3:30

Literally, no lie, on Saturday night I was playing this rave song and my girl Erin was like "oh, those are the strings in that Robbie Williams track. he must have sampled them."
so I did some hunting online and found where he sampled them found and heard the Nancy Sinatra version for the first time.
then the next night, we were watching the season finale of Mad Men and that exact song came on! we both looked at each other like "hey!!!"
Creeeeeeepy :P

[profane]

The finale wasn't what I thought it would be, but in the end very fitting. Imo the best season yet. And Roger, I love that guy.

[Harry Seaward]

What if CBS made Mad Men? (Contains some slight spoilers)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GaHmdLrnZk

[Hula]

This episode really had a feeling of coming full circle, which I loved. Totally not trying to tempt fate here (as there have already been hints about another season) but this would almost have been a great way to end the series altogether. The theme of no one really being happy even though they have everything, the firm returning to its hey day, Don's wife rekindling her old love of performing, Don returning to his philandering ways... Even the fact that Peggy looks like she's settled into a similar, slightly under-appreciated role at the new firm was a bit of an elbow-nudge back to the old days.

Don and Megan are definitely done-for, although I think we've been able to see that for a while now. It's just the repetition of what happened with Betty (her chasing her dream, him getting bored) that'll probably be the straw that breaks the camel's back. I mean, he pretty much married the same woman, just the newer, less blonde version.

I'm very much glad this wasn't the last season, though. Whenever the show starts to wane, it always manages to reel me back in with episodes like this.

[Harry Seaward]

Am I the last one to find out about Christina Hendricks' 'goth phase'?


http://i.imgur.com/fK2zq.jpg

[thevoid99]

She looks hot as a Goth.

[bobbie solo]

that's goth?

[Harry Seaward]

that's goth?

That's what she called it.

[icklekitty]

that's goth?

Welcome to the 90s

[october_midnight]

Interesting Gawker article. (http://gawker.com/5921553/internet-girls-mad-men-and-why-the-greatest-generation-wasnt)

Not trolling, just thought it was a good read.

[Hula]

Interesting Gawker article. (http://gawker.com/5921553/internet-girls-mad-men-and-why-the-greatest-generation-wasnt)

Not trolling, just thought it was a good read.

Interesting read. It kind of devolved into 'these asshole rich white men like sort of the general era of this show, therefore FUCK WHITE MEN' there, though.

I agree with pretty much all the author said, it's just I'm not so sure there's any meat to his argument if he was attempting to attack Mad Men itself. Yes, a lot of the characters are misogynistic. Yes, there are so many portrayals of racism that it's uncomfortable to watch because it almost feels like the show itself is racist. Yes, the show glamorises this era to an extent that it almost almost ALMOST makes these horrible characters seem okay... But I think what's different about Mad Men is that it paints a picture of this time which is pretty damn accurate (at least in terms of the white upper middle class experience), and while we love Don Draper we are made to feel pretty uncomfortable whenever he reverts to less-than-shiny behaviour.

It's a bit like Boardwalk Empire, for me. My mother told me she didn't want to watch it any more because it was so misogynistic and racist. Considering that I get butthurt over virtually every social injustice (including the ones that don't affect me, like racism), it was weird that she was so offended and I wasn't bothered about it. What I personally didn't like about the show (because as much as the frequent depictions of women being used as objects bothered me, I thought it was in keeping with the era and never felt it was shown to be okay) was that women and POC almost came across as less than human. It wasn't the fact that they were being treated as less than human (although they most certainly were), it was the fact that these characters seemed so docile and half-brained that I sometimes wondered if the writers grew up back in a time when POC and women were genuinely thought to be subhuman. There's a difference between portraying societal views and creating characters in such a way that the writers seem to actually subscribe to said societal views. With Mad Men, at least, we do have POC and women and gay men who, while oppressed and fucked over at every turn, are shown to be people in their own right and that's the big difference between both shows. Anyway, I digress...

I think some people see these glamorous portrayals of times gone by where characters are shown to beat their women, quite openly put down people of colour, and generally engage in unsavoury behaviour and they think that these shows are somehow saying it's okay to be that way because TV says it's sexy. I don't think that's the case. I think the creators of these shows are just marrying the glamour of these eras with the less than appealing things that also came with the time. The big difference between Mad Men and a film actually shot in that era is the fact that Mad Men shows you all the blatant treatment of women and POC as second-class citizens. Are the writers bad people for showing it? No, because even though we ultimately feel an affinity toward the characters, we're constantly repulsed by what they're doing. Every time Don Draper returns to his womanising ways, there's a moment where we probably all go 'Oh, Don... Back to your old ways yet again!' Coupled with that, though, is the realisation that what he's doing isn't cool. There's a certain sense of disgust that comes with it. I don't think the writers ever portray him as a good person; never once is his behaviour itself sugar-coated. The fact that he's desirable, that there are modern women out there who want to be with him and modern men who want to be him, is repugnant—and yet we can't help but feel compelled to follow him along his journey.

I can see why the author might not like Mad Men—because it shows an era and a lifestyle which is most certainly more desirable to the privileged white population than to the minorities that routinely get trampled all over in the show's course. To create a Mad Men that had gay people and black people and women in equal social standing with the sexist, homophobic front runners of the show would have been deceitful. To create a Mad Men that focussed on a character in one of these subjugated groups and the struggles they face would have been sincere, but it would have been a different show entirely. What we have instead is a show that allows you to see how screwed-up societal norms were back then with the use of an ensemble cast. The only way it could be a little better is if we had a POC as a main character, although even then it'd probably be difficult for the writers' not to be seen to be fetishising racial struggles.

If you create a show that in any way portrays white, privileged people in a leading role, you're going to get hate. If you then don't punish these characters for their horrible ways, you're going to get more hate. The truth is that good things happen to awful people, and I think Mad Men is a pretty good example of that. We have these men who have it all and are still somehow hungry for more, who will scramble up on anyone's shoulders to get what they want; Mad Men might depict an era that is long gone, but that one facet of society depicted in the show is something that still hasn't changed—and might never.

[littlemonkey613]

"Ever since Mad Men captivated the consciousness of a particular subset of the American population a few years back, we—men in particular—have learned to ignore how deplorable most of the male characters on the show are."
Umm if this is how people feel about the show and the men in it they are missing something very obvious about Weiner's intent...........Mad Men is the anti "The Help". It's truth is what makes the show such an advocate for the social and civil rights of women and people of color.

[chris]

The first problem with that article is that Aaron Sorkin has nothing to do with Mad Men. The second problem is that the article's author sets up a straw man in his disagreement with Sorkin. Sorkin said America was great before Vietnam and Watergate, but not civil rights, which picked up steam a few years before. It's an important distinction, and it's these years in which Mad Men is set. It has been argued that that Nixon exploited the white backlash of the progress of civil rights to get elected. He then exacerbated the problem in Vietnam and created Watergate. So in effect, the shit all began to go downhill in 1968, which in all likelihood is the next year in which Mad Men will be set. A more valid criticism of the show would be to say that deploring the actions depicted in Mad Men might somehow reinforce the more subtle discrimination that occurs today by allowing people to point to the show and say, “Well, at least we’re not that bad.”

[Sallos]

zou bisou bisou

[orestes]

Season six starts April 7th and the first promo photos emerge (http://jezebel.com/5978795/lets-all-fawn-over-these-new-mad-men-images/gallery/1).

Pete Campbell's sideburns!

[orestes]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/bd33af7be0c216e90f3a993b6b447ce2/tumblr_mjixocpadV1qz7f9to1_500.jpg

[Wretchedest]

I just started on this show... up to season five. I already regret clicking on this thread...

Its a mixed bag. Sometimes its intricate and layered. Other times its haphazard and random. At first i thought that Don was a complex, deep and mysterious character, but im growing to realize that hes actually just a conpletely random plot device that writers can use as asteering wheel for the direction of the show.

Its a really strong show when its halfway through a season and it takes a lot of risks, which i admire.

[littlemonkey613]

but im growing to realize that hes actually just a conpletely random plot device that writers can use as asteering wheel for the direction of the show.
.

Blasphemy!!! Just kidding. Would you mind elaborating on that? It's not every day someone's biggest critique of the show is how Don's character is developed, or how it is not in your view.

[Wretchedest]

Sure.

I get that he's supposed to be impulsive and withdrawn, but with him I feel like cause only occasionally comes crashing into effect. When I think about the choices he makes, I find it more difficult than with other characters to grasp his motivation. The show likes to keep these motivations in the dark, and sometimes we can actually pick them out after they're slowly revealed to us, but other times I feel like there's nothing there at all...

That's probably the point, that for all the interesting things this man has been through, he leads a relatively shallow life, but the way they handle Don is representitive of how the show is handled (Don being much of the show.) and maybe its easier to explain my point of view by talking about the bigger picture. The show very often simply drops threads that it only just started to pick up. Maybe the show is written on the fly or maybe certain developments ended up on the cutting room floor, but the result is that the show leads like the writers are playing trial and error.

A great example of this is the character of Salvatore. They kept giving Salvatore various one-off conflicts and eyebrow raising subtleties, but none of his subplots ever paid off. They cut him out of the show just as things were getting interesting. I'm left to wonder if they didn't have the time to take the leap or if they didn't have the balls to do it.. Either way, he had 2 or 3 catalysts, each with no second or third act. They just sort of evaporated. Salvatore is one example

Taking this back to Don, they can't really just leave him hanging to dry but they often do this with things he does or is trying to do. Girls he's dating, clients he's courting, etc. These also disappear into thin air. I figure that sometimes they want things to go in a certain direction, decide later that it doesn't work, and then tug the wheel back the other way. The begining of Season 4 was really interesting, when they had Don at rock bottom. But they only had him there for 2 episodes, before he decided to stop drinking altogether and started going swimming etc... and then all of that stopped and things are back to normal. There's no real consequence to that thread. It's gone now.

[Santos L Halper]

If anyone is wanting to catch up Season 5 is now available on Netflix.

[orestes]

Soooooo who watched the season premiere?

[Piko]

I have it on the DVR and haven't gotten to it yet. Driving me insane.

[littlemonkey613]

Soooooo who watched the season premiere?

Me! So much subtext. *drool

[orestes]

All the hair!

[Wretchedest]

Last nights episode was incredible. probably one of the best episodes of anything.

[dlb]

Taped it and will watch it tomorrow! All those promo pics and early reactions got me pretty excited!

[icklekitty]

So the media are calling Don "creepy" in last night's episode of Mad Men. Talk about your mixed messages.

[orestes]

Haven't watched last night's episode yet but Don's been an asshole of epic proportion this season. Joan gave him a fitting talk down last week.

[Piko]

Don's definitely been something else this season. Maybe he was testing her to see just how much he could control her? He seems to be into the "I'm the master" role now.

[littlemonkey613]

He's always been that way. He used to control what Betty wore....

He can't control Megan so this is the result. (tho he tries) Dear lord what an ass.

[xmd 5a]

Don has pretty much eclipsed Pete as biggest arsehole this season IMO. I was practically shouting at the TV in anger at every scene he was in ('cept for the plane part... JUSTICE!)

I'm liking Ted a lot as a character and am really satisfied with the merger subplot. Peggy owns!

[littlemonkey613]

I LOVE TED.

And yes omg Peggy.

[miss k bee]

Peggy is boss!

[xmd 5a]

Holy fuck that episode was amazing. I don't even know what to say.

[orestes]

Tap dancing Ken was amazing.

[Piko]

That was one of those "holy shit" episodes. Ken dancing was pretty awesome.

[orestes]

Grandma Ida was another moment. Holy shit, that was terrifying.

[Piko]

Grandma Ida was another moment. Holy shit, that was terrifying.

That whole part had me cringing and wondering what would come of it. I wasn't sure if she was going to hurt the kids or not. It was creepy.

[littlemonkey613]

Ugh easily best show on television. The nuances of character are out of this world. Even trying to describe Peggy is difficult as fuck. She's as hard to define and comprehend like she's real or some shit. If she never gets an Emmy for that role I'll be so pissed.

[dlb]

well, she earned a Critic's Choice Award not too long ago. While I dislike that character alot, she definitely deserved it. As does pretty much everyone else on that show. It's that good. While season 6 started off slow like the last one it built up nicely.

I really hope they make another season after number 7. This show can't end. Ever.

[xmd 5a]

Peggy is one of the only wholly sympathetic central characters IMO. Megan and Joan too (and the Draper kids too, if they count). All of the characters are excellently written and acted and the fact I get so pissed off with many of them (mostly the dudes) is a testament to the emotional power of this show.

Will have to wait to see how Breaking Bad ends up, but I'm leaning towards Mad Men being my all-time favourite live-action TV show.

[Kodiak33]

well, she earned a Critic's Choice Award not too long ago. While I dislike that character alot, she definitely deserved it. As does pretty much everyone else on that show. It's that good. While season 6 started off slow like the last one it built up nicely.

I really hope they make another season after number 7. This show can't end. Ever.

The creatror, Matthew Weiner, said that Season 7 would definitely be the end of the show.

[miss k bee]

Grandma Ida was another moment. Holy shit, that was terrifying.She creeped me out. IMO Betty was right to go mad!

[Reznor2112]

This season is def the worst...the story lines are not flourishing like they used to to.

What the hell happened between Alison Brie and Pete? I honestly just want an excuse to have her back on the show... :rolleyes:

[orestes]

Fuck you, Abe.

[orestes]

Pete Campbell is such a crybaby.

[littlemonkey613]

This season is def the worst...the story lines are not flourishing like they used to to.



To be fair the show has always been very strange in terms of what it lets go/ decides to dwell on. I've always felt like each episode is more checking in with characters than actually letting you piece together any whole story line for them.

Joan + Peggy <3.

[neorev]

can we just have more of them on drugs in the office again?
the only good episode this season

[bobbie solo]

can we just have more of them on drugs in the office again?
the only good episode this season

trollin eh? well-played sir.

can't wait to see where they end this season. something big is going to happen to correspond with the big happenings in the country at the time imo.

[Wretchedest]

This has been undoubtedly the best season of this show so far. So sad it's almost over.

[littlemonkey613]

But seriously WHO THE FUCK IS BOB?

The line he had last episode was so creepy considering the mystery around him and Kenny making a joke about him being a sociopath in the beginning of the season.

"You have to be in the right place at all times."

Which he ALWAYS is. WHO ARE YOU?

[orestes]

Harry Hamlin's character asked him the best question this week.

[Piko]

I'm sure everyone is curious as to what the deal with Bob is. I'm guessing he's the Don Draper of the 70s. Draper's becoming so out of touch as the times are changing. I think Bob will be that guy who plays every card well enough to reach the top. Nothing about Bob is coincidental.

[littlemonkey613]

I'm sure everyone is curious as to what the deal with Bob is. I'm guessing he's the Don Draper of the 70s. Draper's becoming so out of touch as the times are changing. I think Bob will be that guy who plays every card well enough to reach the top. Nothing about Bob is coincidental.

So true I like the contrast. In Don's time you got what you wanted with making others seem weak and looking bad ass and arrogant while doing it. Bob is in the business of favors and being creating small subtle alliances everywhere he goes. Most importantly he comes off as nice... or creepy... however you want to see it.

[Piko]

I'd say he's just very ambitious. Remember how Don got his foot in the door? He sucked up to Roger. Almost identical but on a much wider scale.

And is it just me, but did anyone find the ending with Pete kinda funny? One minute, he's whining about how things are changing, and before you know it, he's sitting down, smoking a joint, and being a total creeper. Total "ah, fuck it" moment.

[Reznor2112]

I agree with this season ending on a huge note so it can make for an amazing final season next year.

[littlemonkey613]

I'd say he's just very ambitious. Remember how Don got his foot in the door? He sucked up to Roger. Almost identical but on a much.

He also tricked Roger though, got him drunk and then lied to his face. That's how he really got hired. / Yeah that Pete ending was HILARIOUS.

[Piko]

True. But you don't think Bob is capable of that. He's a guy trying to get ahead. Who knows what he's capable of doing.

[dlb]

Bob really is an intruiging character, but I really hope they don't cut him short like they did with Ginsberg who when he was first introduced to the show looked like the next big character to appear. Now we're at the end of season 6 and he looks like Luigi with not much to say, despite the fact that at first glance I thought he would rise to the top rather quickly. Hopefully they keep up with Bob and incorporate him more. Right now he seems to be the one that holds pretty much every story string together.

Anyway, I'm enjoying the hell out of this season for the past 3-4 episodes which all had some great and memorable moments. My only complaint would be that while we get to see the kids within some major scenes they let go off Sally a bit too much IMHO. Especially at her current age I would have liked some more screen time from her and her causing more trouble to her parents. But maybe we will get to see more of that...

Either way, I really can't wait to see where they will be heading with this show for the final season and how we will leave each character. Especially Don.

[littlemonkey613]

True. But you don't think Bob is capable of that. He's a guy trying to get ahead. Who knows what he's capable of doing.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/hollywood-prospectus/post/_/id/79105/matthew-weiner-addresses-those-bob-benson-conspiracy-theories

Seems like Weiner agrees with you there.

[Piko]

I think the phrase "holy shit" seems fitting. And wtf with Bob? Did he really come onto Pete?

[littlemonkey613]

Im fucking only 7 minutes in and its already too good.

Sally's attitude, Megan/Don strife, PEGGY + PETE'S MOM, PEGGY + PETE + TED GETTING DRUNK TOGETHER

This show.

Edit: Just finished. Holy shit indeed. And ^yes. yes he did. O_____O

[blackholesun]

What a fucking show.

[xmd 5a]

FUUUUUUCK. Why can't it be next week already? This. Damn. Show.

[Piko]

And the season is almost over... Went by so fast.

[dlb]

That was one hell of an episode! Totally loved it although I almost never felt as bad as now for so many people on this show. Poor Sally...

Is Benson really gay? I have a hard time believing this especially after Ginsberg already asked him last episode and since Benson is nice to absolutely EVERYONE. He can't possibly be in love with everyone in the office, can he? I would really love to see him play more tricks on Pete in the coming episodes. I have a feeling Cambell hasn't hit rock bottom yet and Benson IS like Weiner already confirmed a LIAR. We'll see...

A little bit more from Roger would have been nice, but he already had his moments last episode, so that's okay.

[Piko]

Well, it's very possible he was toying with Pete. Who knows? This Bob Benson mystery just keeps unfolding.

[Kodiak33]

Maybe he's trying to get him fired/gone to take his position. Pete is almost off of the edge as it is, well, maybe Don is worse now.

[Aladdinsanity]

By far the best episode of the entire series. As a matter of fact, I was worried that they were trying to ret-con Ted's original grudge/competition towards Don. They couldn't have possibly reconciled that in a better fashion, especially in light of the fact that we now get to see Ted as a protagonist of sorts.

[miss k bee]

I watched Favours episode before A Tale of Two Cities by mistake, but boy Favours was the best episode!. Bob Benson coming on to Pete was just like wtf!!! And Sally seeing Don 'comforting' the neighbour!! Season always starts off slow and then boom!

[orestes]

"I was comforting Mrs. Rosen." WITH YOUR PENIS, DON.

[dlb]

"I was comforting Mrs. Rosen." WITH YOUR PENIS, DON.

Well, he did admit it was "complicated", didn't he? :D

[Piko]

I think he realized she was old enough not to buy into his bullshit.

[orestes]

Annnnd the daddy issues pass on from one generation to the next.

[littlemonkey613]

BOB BENSON.

Don is such a fucking dick...
Sally <3.
Peggy :(
Ted :(

Excellent episode.

Wiener's ability to slowly... slowly build things up and nurture the narrative seeds hes planted is insane. I still stand by this being the best written show currently on TV by miles.

"My father's never given me anything." Betty's face! HAh!

[Magtig]

"I was comforting Mrs. Rosen." WITH YOUR PENIS, DON.
But that's the best way to comfort Mrs. Rosen.

[xmd 5a]

BOB BENSON.

Don is such a fucking dick...
Sally <3.
Peggy :(
Ted :(

Excellent episode.


+1.

Fucking Bob Benson. The... errrr... chemistry with Pete was amazing.

[blackholesun]

I've loved this season so much.

Did not see that coming with Bob Benson. But of course they had to reveal something. I was shocked at Pete's reaction when he confronted Bob. But it makes sense. Remember he found out about Don's big secret? It got him nowhere. He realizes that everyone likes Bob and that if he were to do the same thing against Bob that he did with Don, it would come down on him.

Was awesome to see Glen again. I wonder if Sally ends up at the boarding school, if we'll see her in the last season. The chemistry between her and Betsy is great.

Don is such an interesting character. He was a huge ass, once again. He's only a shadow of his former self. But, you can see he's on an island of self-despair. He's lonely. He's so detached from everyone. It's such a conflict, going from feeling bad for him one minute and remembering he's in this for himself the next and hating him.

Looking forward to the finale. Usually they have a crazy episode the episode before the finale, but I didn't think this was one of those episodes. It was still a great one though.

Edit: And yeah, it's hard to get a read on Ted and Peggy's relationship. It's flirty, but it also could be nothing. But it is clear that Ted is morally better than Don at this point and that is what Peggy sees.

[Piko]

It's not like we see much of her to begin with. Would be a shame to see her go though.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[miss k bee]

Oooh its all warming up for the finale! Benson is Don mark two - except he likes men!

[Zipfinator]

I doubt they'll completely get rid of Sally for the last season. What's the point.

[Piko]

Great finale. Don had his saving grace, at great cost. Insane about Pete's mother. This season might very well be my favorite. Not a single bad thing I can say about it. Every character brought something interesting into it. Can't wait to watch these episodes again.

[littlemonkey613]

Still best show on Television.

How fantastic was this season tho? I have to re-watch the first few to appreciate the genius set up. Beautiful final shot. That look Sally gave, I know it so well. Reminds me so much of when my dad first showed me where he grew up (it is a really dangerous fucked up part of LA). Weiner just fucking gets it.

So happy him and Megan are over, I mean they are over right? Her line about pitying the kids then realizing she was in the same boat. Speak on truth-sayer!

I literally have no idea what to expect for next season. The only wish I have is for Don and Peggy to have a somewhat positive relationship again. I still believe they are the heart and soul of the show. The entire mood for each season kind of matches how they are relating to each other.

Triflin' ass ted.

[Zipfinator]

How fantastic was this season tho? I have to re-watch the first few to appreciate the genius set up. Beautiful final shot.

The shot with Trudy watching over Pete with their daughter was the same as the one with Don from the Pilot too.

http://i.imgur.com/xKLLfLd.png

[Wretchedest]

I still think it was maybe the best season of anything, ever. fantastic writing.

That shot where Peggy takes Don's place, with homage to the opening sequence... lots of really great dialogues in this episode, too.

[littlemonkey613]

Also bar scene with the Christian Don punched, they were playing the song from the first Mad Men scene ever in the background.

[xmd 5a]

Loved Peggy's "bossed up" outfit. Her and Ted though... :(

And though Don's an arsehole I still teared up at the Hershey's presentation incident.

This season went too quickly. I want this show to go on forever.

[Kodiak33]

The shot with Trudy watching over Pete with their daughter was the same as the one with Don from the Pilot too.

http://i.imgur.com/xKLLfLd.png

That's interesting. Also the shot with Peggy in Don's office mimic's the opening title sequence with Don on the couch (tilted head etc) which has been mentioned already.

[dlb]

Wow!

The only reason why I'd want this show to end is so I can finally pick up a nice little box set and have my Mad Men handy whenever I need it. And of course a good looking piece in my collection. :)

[Piko]

So what do you guys think is going to happen to Don? Think he'll get his shit together and come back or vice versa. Personally, I can't imagine them not taking him back.

And, I can't wait to add this season to my collection.

[Piko]

Next and final season is going to be split into two... seven in the spring, and the other seven in spring 2015. Please tell me I'm not the only be to think this is really fucking stupid. Think I'll be done with amc in the near future.

[orestes]

Not liking this either.

[Zipfinator]

After Breaking Bad and Mad Men are done I'm pretty much done with AMC. I'll still probably watch TWD since I'm a fan of the comics and can still enjoy the show even when they fuck some shit up but nothing else they've done the last few years has been that interesting.

[littlemonkey613]

Great episode. What a lovely evening for television. Love how Peggy is fighting tooth and nail for Don and doesn't even know it, also how the end of their day paralleled so much.

[xmd 5a]

Loved it. It was a much better opener than last season's, IMO.

[Piko]

I thought it was a weak premiere. Especially when it's the final season. Good episode though. Was just hoping for more, considering we only have six more episodes for the year.

[Wretchedest]

I thought it was weak too. Certainly my mind had to catch up with this episode because of the gap, and in a way that i didnt with Breaking Bad. Season 6's great strength was its thematic focus, season 7 threatens to be all over the place, with the east/west thing kind of tripping me out.

California Pete was hilarious though.

[Space Suicide]

Cutting this season in half like they did Breaking Bad's final season is a lousy ploy to squeeze more ratings and airtime for this excellent show. I didn't watch the premiere. Then again, I am playing catchup. I do own all seasons though so shouldn't take long, I'll be able to watch the second half of the season on TV with no issues since I'll be allllllllll caught up in a year. :p

[Piko]

I seriously hate that AMC does this. They really like to drag these things out. Guess they need to buy time to replace shows like mad men and breaking bad.

[Kodiak33]

Yeah, AMC is going to be hurting after Mad Men is gone. They're extending it out for contract negotiations with providers I'm assuming. Have you guys checked out Turn yet?

[Mantra]

I just now finally finished catching up on this show. As in, I spent the last year and a half slowly making my way through all 6 seasons, and then last night watched the first episode of season 7. I fucking love this show. So it's kind of funny for me to click on this thread and find some old posts from me on page one asking people what the appeal of this show is. I forgot I even made those. One of the interesting things about posting on a message board over many years is when you find some old posts you made years ago and you see that your opinion has completely changed. I think because I went into this show after binging on the The Wire and Breaking Bad, I found the sudden change of pace/action to be a bit jarring. But I eventually warmed up to it, and now it's become one of my favorite shows ever. The depth and complexity of the characters is just amazing, and I love how they slow cook the story of each season.

That said, I'm a little worried about the fact that they're splitting this season into two halves like they did with Breaking Bad. I have faith in this show, but still, I'm worried. AMC are a bunch of morons for doing this shit.

[Mantra]

Just watched the newest episode and thought it was awesome. Lots of really smart, subtle stuff, like the way Dawn and Shirley were calling each other by each other's names. Given that the show hasn't always explored race very deeply (or at all), that joke was a pretty funny way of commenting on their experience in the office, how people got them mixed up. Also, realizing that Don was only getting dressed for Dawn's visit was awesome/depressing as fuck.

Am I the only one filled with an irrationally strong hatred towards Lou? I'm really hoping they run him over with a fucking lawnmower or something along those lines. Fucking hate that guy.

[Piko]

Lou is a real piece of shit. I count the episodes when he finally gets tossed aside. But, I enjoyed this episode a whole lot more than last week. The interactions between Don and Sally are priceless. She seems to be the only one who really understands him, and isn't afraid to call him on his bullshit.

[Mantra]

^Yeah, there are times when I feel like Sally is literally the best character/actress on the entire show.

[Piko]

Considering we only have five more episodes for the year, hopefully we get to see more of her.

[Piko]

The look on Lou's face was priceless. Hopefully tonight's the night Lou goes bye bye.

Edit

GODDAMMIT!!!

[xmd 5a]

Ginsberg, WTF?

[Piko]

Yeah, he completely lost it. Too much scouts honor? That last interaction with Don was tense.

[littlemonkey613]

Season 7 and still the best god damn show on television. It is relentless in its vision and refuses to cater to our ZOMGGG PLOT FCKING SHIT UP mentality, which makes insane episodes like this all the more glorious. It's all about the characters.

[orestes]

Best episode of the season thus far!

[Harry Seaward]

That was a great midseason finale.

Very fucking upset that the rest won't be airing until Spring 2015.

[Piko]

The moon belongs to everyone... Got a little teary eyed towards the end. Loved it though.

[xmd 5a]

What a satisfying mid-season ending. I was terrified they'd leave some massive lingering threads or end with a humungous cliffhanger. Not that the wait until next year is going to be easy, but at least it will be tolerable.

Presuming the second half of this season is going to be as strong as the first, I have no reservations about calling Mad Men the best show on TV.

[littlemonkey613]

What a satisfying mid-season ending. I was terrified they'd leave some massive lingering threads or end with a humungous cliffhanger. Not that the wait until next year is going to be easy, but at least it will be tolerable.

Presuming the second half of this season is going to be as strong as the first, I have no reservations about calling Mad Men the best show on TV.


I agree 100% with every statement in this post.

I thought cutting the season in half would be terrible because I am so used to how Mad Men paces its season. And though its been incredible so far this season I still felt that there was no way they would give me enough "closure" (w/e the fuck that means on this show LOL) to wait another year. Boy was I wrong. What a beautiful and emotional episode. And it was a huge end of sorts.

And good you shouldn't have reservations because it most certainly is.

[Space Suicide]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsJSRP7cZVo

This made me laugh more than it should have.

In other news: Mad Men Season 7, Part 1 hits stores tomorrow on DVD/Blu-ray!

[Piko]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsJSRP7cZVo

This made me laugh more than it should have.

In other news: Mad Men Season 7, Part 1 hits stores tomorrow on DVD/Blu-ray!

picking it up after work tomorrow. Still one of my favorite shows, ever. Can't wait for the final episodes.

[Piko]

First episode of the final run was tonight. Not a spectacular episode, but decent. Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't it supposed to be seven episodes? Did something change? They say there's five left... WTF?

[Sebek]

I think they said that there's five left before the finale, which would make a total of 6, but maybe I heard it wrong.

[Piko]

Sounded like they said five left. But maybe I jumped the gun before hearing the "before the finale" part. I didn't hear it though. If I did hear right, it could've been an error on their part.