Nine Inch Nails & Children

[Halo Infinity]

I recall this being addressed on ETS before, and I'm wondering what most of you think about letting children of any age listen to Nine Inch Nails? Have your opinions changed over the years? And when I say children, I'm also referring to children as old as 12, and not just children that are 8 and under or 6 and under. I already know some of the opinions from those on NIN.com that might also be here too, because I brought it up there. So what do you think? When it comes to minors, would NIN be 13+ music? I do recall lots of people here saying that 11 year olds and 12 year olds shouldn't listen to NIN. As for teenagers, I still don't think any teenager is too young for NIN. I just don't see what's wrong with teenagers being into NIN.

[sheepdean]

I don't understand why someone who likes music shouldn't be allowed to listen to it - if an 8 year old decides they really love TDS, let them spin it as much as they want. Teaching them that swear words exist, and when they're acceptable, makes more sense than hiding them from your kids, so they use them inappropriately due to ignorance.

[Wretchedest]

What? No... i can understand like 12 and up, theyll get their hands on whatever regardless. Ive been there. But an 8 year old? An 8 year old should not be subjected to such intense depressing music as TDS. Ghosts... sure, theyd prolly find it boring, though. But TDS especially is a little hardcore. Your telling me the verdicts out on whether little timmy should be allowed to listen to Big Man with a Gun? What good would come of that?

[sheepdean]

If a kid LIKES it, why not? I'm not saying play them music they don't like, but many people find "depressing" music quite uplifting

[MAD]

Suck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4ZZQoqlqrk

EDIETS (my fav)

http://youtu.be/QM7D5ODt4qU

SICNH

http://youtu.be/O5gCq-JWrBg

TLBTB

http://youtu.be/ha4za0H68SY

TGD Remix .. old nuff?

http://youtu.be/ergwwqYHcXY

There you have it. Nine Inch Nails and insane baby cuteness smeared all over this page!

[Wretchedest]

If a kid LIKES it, why not? I'm not saying play them music they don't like, but many people find "depressing" music quite uplifting

Its not about whether they like it or not. Its about there psychological preparedness, the possibility of imgesting something like the downward spiral and normalizing it. Tds runs the gammot of the worlds darkest emotional state. Its hardly something your supposed to "enjoy" it supposed to be uncomfortable and disturbing.
Hell, i got into it when i was fifteen, probably barely ready for something like that.

Its sort of like A Clockwork Orange. As a teen you get really into it and think its all edgy and trippy and deviant. But as you grow ip you realize how fucked up it really is. Big Man With a Gun, yeah let your toddler listen to that as much as he wants, see how he turns out. Because media and art dont impact our perceptions of reality or anything... it couldnt do that to a toddler. No.

[wizfan]

There's always Rockabye Baby.

[MAD]

Big Man With a Gun, yeah let your toddler listen to that as much as he wants, see how he turns out.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrbc0ivjV51qlrqj4.jpg
I'll post the results later.

I was raised with AC/DC and I'm glad that happened.

[sheepdean]

Its not about whether they like it or not. Its about there psychological preparedness, the possibility of imgesting something like the downward spiral and normalizing it. Tds runs the gammot of the worlds darkest emotional state. Its hardly something your supposed to "enjoy" it supposed to be uncomfortable and disturbing.
Hell, i got into it when i was fifteen, probably barely ready for something like that.

Its sort of like A Clockwork Orange. As a teen you get really into it and think its all edgy and trippy and deviant. But as you grow ip you realize how fucked up it really is. Big Man With a Gun, yeah let your toddler listen to that as much as he wants, see how he turns out. Because media and art dont impact our perceptions of reality or anything... it couldnt do that to a toddler. No.
If the kid doesn't understand the lyrics, does it have the same impact? Music is powerful, but I don't think listening to a song can corrupt someone in such an utter way, otherwise there'd be people everywhere who existed only within the genre of the music their parents loved, and only reflected those ideals.

[KrakenWakes]

Its the same reason why I'm more afraid of the dark than my 2 year old is. She doesn't have 30 years of movies and books to scare the hell out of her. To her it's just music.

For older kids, well... at 8 i was listening to the Misfits, the Circle Jerks, and Suicidal Tendencies on cassettes hidden under my bed and I never had any psychological issues. Other than a fear of the dark that is.

[Zipfinator]

Big Man With a Gun, yeah let your toddler listen to that as much as he wants, see how he turns out.

"Honey, he said his first words!"

(Read in a Baby Voice) "Iaam gunna cum all overr you..."

[M1ke]

I've had NIN on in the car with the kids in and they usually complain and tell me to change it.

[Wretchedest]

Man, back in the day, this thread was skewed completely the other way.... now I'm on my own...

[lady weetly]

Back in 1994 when I was a kid, my babysitter would play Broken and TDS on her walkman and I'd sometimes want to listen too. I didn't have a clue what the lyrics meant at that age so honestly I'd let my kids listen to whatever they want.

[Halo Infinity]

What? No... i can understand like 12 and up, theyll get their hands on whatever regardless.
What about having 10 year olds and 11 year olds listening to NIN? Would you be against that too? Don't get me wrong though, as I find myself in the middle of this debate, but I still understand why people wouldn't want children ages 8 and under listening to NIN. (Or any child in the single digits for that matter, so yes that could also include age 9.)


Man, back in the day, this thread was skewed completely the other way.... now I'm on my own...
I'm actually a bit surprised myself too. At least we both agree on minors listening to NIN at ages 12 and up not being a big deal at all.

[allegro]

When I was a kid, our mom had this album:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51Vs2O48wCL._SS500_.jpg

Which included songs like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URDCkQCwAes

Mom said, "don't sing that song around Grandma, okay?"

[con4cyn]

I was 12 when I discovered NIN, and other alternative rock I didn't grow up with before that. I already knew there were things my parents didn't want me to see or hear, which made it that much more enticing. Plus, it ushered me into my hormonal teens perfectly. I honestly, don't think I would have understood TDS if I was younger than 10. My parents divorced around that age, anyway, so I think it depends on what kind of environment the kids are given by that point.

[Harry Seaward]

Depends on the type of kid. If they're stupid, they'll just rock out to the cool noises. If they're smart, it may have an effect on their growth. NIN has some dark lyrics, if you're smart enough to pay attention to them.

[pequena]

If the kid doesn't understand the lyrics, does it have the same impact? Music is powerful, but I don't think listening to a song can corrupt someone in such an utter way, otherwise there'd be people everywhere who existed only within the genre of the music their parents loved, and only reflected those ideals.
This is an incredibly important point. I find this even with adults. My dad, for example, doesn't hear lyrics, it's all muddled to him, and he just enjoys it for the music he hears. I think if it's quality music then I wouldn't have an issue with it. I totally plan on sharing the music I think is fantastic with whatever kid(s) I have.

But like others said, I'm not about to shove it down their throat and if they don't like it or it freaks them out (like NIN did when I was 10-11) or they turn out not to be big into music (:() then that's cool too. They might always come back to it! Or go rummaging through mom's music stash.

And if they go about randomly singing inappropriate lyrics in public at a super young age (like I did, lololz) then...well, it'll probably be pretty funny.

[reznovka]

My little brother hates NIN...but he says that he can´t understand it and that´s the reason. He like stupid german popmusic.
But I think it´s ok for kids. Some songs like hurt or closer my be disturbing for kids, but most of the stuff should be fun for them.

[Indefinite_Cure]

When I was 5 I loved Closer and TDS (it had just come out) but I have to point out I didn't know a single word of English...

[Elke]

Its about there psychological preparedness, the possibility of imgesting something like the downward spiral and normalizing it. Tds runs the gammot of the worlds darkest emotional state. Its hardly something your supposed to "enjoy" it supposed to be uncomfortable and disturbing.
Hell, i got into it when i was fifteen, probably barely ready for something like that.

Like others have said: you don't understand what you hear until you're old enough to understand it. I'll give you a completely different example: as a child and even as a teenager I was terrified by The Black Cauldron (a little know Disney movie) because it had skelettons in it. I only watched it for the first time when I was well in my twenties and realized I had been afraid of nothing.
At the same time, I devoured books: Anthony Horowitz, Stephen King, Edgar Allen Poe, Umberto Eco, J.R.R. Tolkien... I read almost all the classics before I was 18. I once brought Anaïs Nin to school, and the teacher was shocked that my mother would let me read that (I was 14 at the time). We had art books in our living room with the darkest and most disturbing works of people like Goya and Bacon; and we listened to classical music as well as folk, Pink Floyd, Queen and Jonathan Livingstone Seagull. I know Lucy In the Sky by heart phonetically. I read all Shakespeare's plays in the original English when I was 15 - that's a lot of death and gore.
Of course that influenced me: all of those things influenced me. It has left me with a taste for the dark and the obscure, for the difficult and the artsy, yes. Nothing scared me like The Black Cauldron though, because I simply didn't get it. As a child, I got skelettons: skelettons are scary, they're dead people without their flesh. It's gross.

An eight year old will either like the album, or won't. An eight your old might get the vibe from some of the sounds (the screaming, the flies, the beatings) that this is scary. And an eight your old might scare the living daylights out of your parents by singing 'Iwannafokyoulikeanananimal' out of the blue. But no way can an eight year old understand all the emotional rawness of that album, all the implications of the lyrics. You said it yourself: you didn't really get it at 15. I didn't really get it until I was 28 or so, and even then... barely.

Parents should always pay attention to what their child sees, hears, reads... but I'm not convinced that Flo Rida and Fergie are not infinitely more dangerous to a child than Nine Inch Nails.

[reznovka]

Parents should always pay attention to what their child sees, hears, reads... but I'm not convinced that Flo Rida and Fergie are not infinitely more dangerous to a child than Nine Inch Nails.

there´s no need to say anything. *sign*

[Halo Infinity]

There you have it. Nine Inch Nails and insane baby cuteness smeared all over this page!
I've seen all of those videos before. In that case, mission accomplished. (I would've used a laughing emoticon if there was one here.) :p I actually found a video of a girl singing Every Day Is Exactly The Same.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcTxKEkK-RA

[Dinki Di]

This is my opinion, but playing some certain NIN songs for anyone that is not old enough to understand it is not the best idea. NIN is not simple pop music, but has dark lyrics and themes that need to be explained to a young child. I would never play something like Closer to a child younger than 10 or so. Downright irresponsible if you ask me. Don't get me wrong, a lot of the music would be appropriate, however playing TDS all the way through? No way.

[Kamelion]

Of course it's fine. Our kids all know and listen to NIN. We do skip the track if something like the uncensored version of Closer comes on, but in the main there's no reason to be weird about it.

[littlemonkey613]

I started listening to NIN when I was 10 and it made me obsessed with good music. I only payed attention to the aesthetics (like you would expect of any child) and didn't even know what he was taking about (nor did I care) I see nothing wrong it. I mean honestly its not worse than the sexist tripe bubblegum pop brainwashes kids with.

[nin5in]

The instrumentals are fine. But anything other than the instrumentals, no, no, and no.

[Tea]

I loved Pretty Hate Machine when I was 5/6 years old. My brother hated it though, because I would steal his cassette tapes and destroy them. When you're that young, it's just music, and none of it means anything. At 6, the first CD I bought with my own money was Prince, which included lyrics like "horny pony, get off", and I was gifted Cibo Matto's album at age 7 (a horse's ass is better than yours!). Remembering back to all of it, I think it opened me musically far more than any "safe" music would. The curse words and sexual innuendos, even if I understood, did nothing to influence my behavior.

Parents know their kids and what they can take. I don't believe, especially, in shutting out sexual art like it's a bad thing. It's nature and something children should start learning about so they can make better decisions, and I'm glad my parents let me watch R rated movies that had sex, not severe violence.

[peanoot3]

I think opening children up to different music is a great thing. I think that a person should show them music that's not bubblegum pop, and have them discover their own personal tastes; as opposed to letting them following fads they don't want to follow. For a small child, I would play Ghosts, and just raise the emotional level a bit by the time their age progresses. By the time they're older, they'll remember that mommy and daddy used to play that one album with the backwards 'N' on it, and realize, "Damn! Nine Inch Nails kicks ass!" Then, they go through the fanboy phase, buying hordes of merchandise, listening to nothing but NIN, and forcing the music on their friends. Eventually, they get into artists associated with 'Nails and like them too. NIN has opened me up to so much music I never knew back then that I would appreciate now. NIN has made me musically more mature, and has opened my mind. I think playing the music for a small child will make them realize at a young age what kind of music is out there. Small 7-year-old's are listening to music on the radio that says, "Slap dem big booty bitches!", and their parents think, "Well, it's on the radio, so no harm in that." I would rather my child want to fuck someone like an animal (though I wouldn't play Closer for a young child), than "sell the cocaine, run from the po-po, and meet with ma homies and smoke dat shit."

Nine Inch Nails also has a pop element in some songs that are irresistable to bob your head or tap your foot to. Even if the lyrics are self destructive and violent, the child doesn't understand and just enjoys what they hear. As a young child, I was restrained from music, and I think to myself every day, "I really wish my parents showed me music that was out there." Playing music like NIN would just broaden their perspective, no matter how obscure the songs are to a child.

[Bonedwarf]

I let my kids listen to SELECT NIN tracks. Swearing? Don't care. Hence my ten and six year olds have "Only" on their ipod Shuffle's. (That was the videos fault though.) They also like "The Hand that Feeds". They like Perfect Drug too. I've shown them bits of NIN live too.

I would draw the line at a lot of songs though. My kid saying "Fuck" in front of their grandmother doesn't bother me. Them telling her they want to fuck her like an animal on the other hand...

I figure I'll wait until their at least 12 to show them the Broken movie...

(Since this is the internet and the collective IQ drops weekly, I must add the last bit is a joke)

To give some perspective, because of me my kids like Iron Maiden, David Bowie etc... Even a bit of Pink Floyd. My next trick is to get at least one hooked on Marillion's "Grendel" after I named my latest Terraria character that.

[mostlymad]

My kids have gone through my music collection and found their own stuff to like. I'm so glad my 12 year old is into classic rock and some of the more interesting older alternative stuff I have. It makes him an outsider at school, but he won't give up the stuff he likes just for those people. Now, as for the cussing, I didn't mind it at all, because it isn't like he had any context about what he was singing. They were just the sounds that went with the music. But other people? Not so fond of a six year old wandering through the mall yelling "Don't you fucking know what you are?" way back when. I'm a little more careful about the words that my youngest, at six now, hears over and over again.

[DirtyLittleHeart]

My kids have been listening to NIN since birth. Girl is almost 15, boy almost 13. Both are well-adjusted. My daughter saw NIN when she was 9 years old. And yes, that included everything.

Not all kids are the same but considering what they hear at school and how early they hear it, I don't think it's that big of a deal. JMO

[burn.]

I don't want my kids fucking like animals.

Actually I'm pretty sure I won't have a problem with that. They'll be old enough by the time they understand english (I'm from Venezuela).

But supposing they knew english I guess I'll select a few songs for them.

I think a kid would enjoy some songs from Year Zero (Capital G, The Beginning of The End, The Great Destroyer), With Teeth, The Fragile and The Slip.

I try to picture myself listening to Letting You or The Great Destroyer at age 10 and I'm almost sure I'd have loved it.

I'd definitively keep them away from TDS, Broken and PHM except for a few songs.

[NINmuffin]

I heard my 1st NIN song at 11 and have been a true fan since 13. It's been 11 years now, I am still a NIN fan. The music kids were into in my school at the time I attended truly scared me. It all sounded the same, meaningless words, sub par beats and no creativity. NIN opened up a world of possibilities creatively for me when I was younger. I explored different types of music and art because I was on a search to find more things that made me feel the way NIN did.. musically, nothing ever really came close.. artistically, knowing NIN made me find and appreciate many different types of art that I still enjoy to this day. NIN got me through all the bad times in my life and I can attribute many a song to certain times and special/terrible days in my life. A few years ago I stopped listening to the radio all together.. It has been almost 5 years, I'm guessing that nothing besides NIN has played in my car.. When I was pregnant, the earphones stretched over my belly everyday played NIN.. Whether it was Rock-a-bye baby NIN or just plain old NIN. When my son was upset after he was born I played NIN and I found that he quieted down pretty quickly, if I played something else.. he did not usually quiet down. My son is 17months old, he is already very musical. He loves to sing and dance and play his toy piano. Now that he is talking I try and monitor the songs I play for him because there are certain words I don't want him to repeat. He knows NIN instantly and begins bopping his head and "singing" - he doesn't do this with radio music. My son is still young, but as far as I can tell it seems like NIN or not.. music in general can be enriching in children's lives.

[Space Suicide]

When I have a child I won't deprive them the given music that they like. If they happen to enjoy certain stuff I do later on down the road, not just NIN then so be it. I would't even mind it if they did/do.

[GlitchyFlame]

Most kids would not really understand the lyrics and just pay attention to the cool sounding noises, but in rare cases there maybe kids who pay attention to the lyrics but not in necessarily in a negative way. Some may listen to the lyrics and sympathize with Trent, and not feel like they are sad and depressed. To tell you the truth when the child is even 10 he/she might be ready to hear The Downward Spiral in its entirety, I started listening to NIN when I was 8 yrs old and when I was ten I bought my first NIN album (The Downward Spiral) I understood the lyrics meaning but did not turn out like a crazy psychopath. I really don't think nin is the worst thing ever like a lot a parents think. But this is just my opinion, yours might be radically different than mine. But there are some things like The Broken Movie, that would be VERY inappropriate for a child.

[sweetsavages]

I first listened to Nine Inch Nails when I was six. I would always listen to it with my older brother. Then I'd sneak into the living room late at night and watch MTV and watch old NIN and Red Hot Chili Peppers music videos. Though the music videos kindof freaked me out sometimes, I loved it. I still love it. So even though I started listening to NIN from a really early age, it never emotionally scarred, it actually helped me with any emotional stuff I had.

[InversePhase]

The real problem with this question/thread is that every kid is different, every parent is different, and to boot, every environment is different. I was a kid that entered grade school knowing cursive, multiplication and division, and how to write software. My parents wanted to shelter me from things. I saw it as a bit overbearing. But I was good at asking questions, and really, I guess I turned out all right. Beware of the kids that always ask "why?" =] Once a kid learns to want, they will find a way to get what they want.

I began listening to NIN at around age 10, but age is just a number. It's hard to claim what age a kid should know something by because of the different speeds at which certain parts of a kid will develop. I think providing additional metrics (what concepts, at an ultimately basic level, are familiar to the kid?) is helpful if only to better gauge whether sharing certain things with the kid is a good idea or not.

[Goldfoot]

I fully intend on letting my children listen to NIN, but I would probably withhold some songs from them at first. I will not pick some arbitrary age, because every person is different. The same way I think it's stupid that at 18 we're suddenly mature enough to decide if we should smoke or not; or 21 with drinking. I started listening to NIN a few months before I turned 10, and my parents for me Broken for my 10th birthday. At that age, there was plenty in the lyrics I just didn't understand. None of it was too much worse than some of the music I heard from my parents anyway. Someone mentioned Prince; my mom loves Prince and would listen to him all the time. I'm sure there's countless examples, but I never even knew what the words to My Sharona were until like 4 (age 23?) years ago, and yet I can remember hearing that song since before I really listened to music on my own. Then there's Ted Nugent, with Cat Scratch Fever of that "sweet poontang" song. I could go on and on, but the point is that I turned out fine. I'd even say it's at least partially because of the music I listen to that I did turn out like this. So, no, I see no problem in letting a child listen to Nine Inch Nails. My sister is constantly telling me about songs on the radio she wishes her kids didn't hear, and some of those I might agree with, even though her kids don't understand what the whips and chains are for in whatever pop song that is.

[Halo Infinity]

Looking through the first NIN purchase thread reminded me of this topic as I've noticed that there were several people that bought their first NIN album when they were in middle school. I just thought that it was nice to know that they got to know about NIN before entering high school. I didn't get into NIN until I was 17. I'm still among those that don't really see anything wrong with 10 to 12 year olds listening to NIN, and it was still a bit surprising to see more people okay with it on ETS these days.

However, if any of you that believe NIN is more of a 13+ band are out there, I still would like to see what you'd have to say. I've got to admit that you do make good points, even though I find myself agreeing with those that say it's okay for people under 13 to listen to NIN. (I wish this thread didn't sink so soon, and I'm just curious as to what other people who haven't seen this thread would think.)

@redshoewearer (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=166) - I thought I'd like to see your take on this too. However, from what I've read, your kids are way beyond being old enough to get into NIN anyway. I just like to know what NIN fans that are parents think of this too. Whoa, that was some awkward wording there. :p

[Halo Infinity]

My kids have been listening to NIN since birth. Girl is almost 15, boy almost 13. Both are well-adjusted. My daughter saw NIN when she was 9 years old. And yes, that included everything.
I just couldn't resist. It's sort of amusing... now that there really IS a song called Everything. The horror... oh Everything... the horror. :p

[skip niklas]

I just couldn't resist. It's sort of amusing... now that there really IS a song called Everything. The horror... oh Everything... the horror. :p

"Everything" is my daughter's favorite song. In fact, Hesitation Marks is the only album I've let her listen to almost in it's entirety since "All Time Low" is the only song that has vulgar language. I've also played the instrumentals and the lullaby tracks for her over the years, and she likes them as well.

[hobochic]

Stop this madness.

No one, and I mean no one, as in kids or even adults, should ever be subjected to EDIETS.

[nowimnothing]

My kids do listen to NIN and I have an 8 year old son and 4 year old daughter. They have no concept of the lyrics at all. And they only like the more poppy songs anyway. I skip Closer and some of the more hard core songs out of courtesy to them - as I don't think they need to hear intensely aggressive tunes or overtly sexual ones. I say that because I know my kids and what they can handle.

[theimage13]

Stop this madness.

No one, and I mean no one, as in kids or even adults, should ever be subjected to EDIETS Everything.

Modified for personal preference.

[Shadaloo]

I used to listen to Naughty By Nature at the age of 10 or so. I didn't understand a lot of it; but I was also listening to Metallica at the time (or shortly thereafter) and they were singing about horsemen and bible stories and war. I think I brushed it all off as a bunch of dudes singing fantasy songs. It wasn't until I got into NIN, Soundgarden, and Manson a few yers later that I really started paying attention to the lyrics and thinking about them.

Depends on your kid, really, and depends on the song. As far as NIN goes there are a few things I maybe wouldn't put on (Big Man With A Gun does come to mind). But for the life of me I wouldn't have a problem with my kid listening to With Teeth, Year Zero or Hesitation Marks. I'd say a good 80% of the catalogue is fair game.

[BenAkenobi]

This topic mainly discusses profanity and dark imagery that's not necessary for kids. But what about kids that study music? Many begin music lessons even before school. I mean, Reznor made a lot of cool piano melodies that are simpler than Mozart or Chopin and some of it can be nice to learn and interpret from composition standpoint, no?

[Fist Fuck]

Why WOULDN'T you let children listen to Nine Inch Nails? :confused:

Depressing? Sure, some songs are, but that teaches them real life. Not everything is all puppies and rainbows, you know? Once they're old enough to understand that a song is depressing, they're old enough to know that.

Heavy? So what. If they don't like heavy music, they won't bother listening to it. If they do, what's wrong with that?

Swearing? Come on. Last time I checked there were guns in American houses. Houses where little kids lived. A few swear words won't kill anyone, and the earlier they learn what they mean, the less cool they are later. Meaning that when you grow up knowing what the word fuck means, it doesn't suddenly become the cool thing to say in school later.

I can't even think of another reason why someone would hestitate letting kids listen to NIN. The only thing I would do is select the songs. They have to be accessible. A little kid won't understand the perfection of a song like And All That Could Have Been, but it's probably gonna dance along to Only, Closer, Discipline, etc. or just enjoy the calmer songs like La Mer or Find My Way.

[PUNCHLINE]

Wow, some differing opinions here. I have a three year old and whenever I play music she just tells me to switch it off as she wants to watch her favourite dvds lol. When I was growing up my parents would be playing Hendrix, the Beatles, Stones, Cream, moody Blues, etc. Some of which I liked, some I didnt but I certainly didnt even listen to lyrics properly until much much older. If I was playing NIN at home now I wouldnt turn it off if my three year old was around but if it was a song with swearing in it Id skip to the next one. Simple as that. Exposing children to music with dark themes? A child really doesnt have that sort of understanding or attention span. My daughter would only be interested if she could dance along to it. :-)
Id be far more worried if she was listening to and getting into rap and the whole gangsta culture, or slutty crap like Rhianna...

[DaNiN]

My seven years old cousin was in my room while i was listening to "while i'm still here"..
I saw him 3 days later and it turned out that he searched the song on his ipad and started listening to it and then he searched for the lyrics and memorised them way before i had the chance to do it.

And later he somehow went through my stuff and browsed a nin album(don't know which one,possibly phm) and told me in a serious informative voice "hey danny, you know that nine inch nails IS trent reznor"

[gunn13]

My daughter is 4. We listen to all kinds of stuff around the house ranging from the cheesiest pop music to black metal. But almost always as quiet background music to whatever we are playing at the time. She loves to dance around but doesn't really pay much attention to any music seriously unless it is her favourites; which currently seems to be pretty much all the stuff in the charts. She loves it!

I always let her pick what to put on of my stuff (currently she always picks the Halloween III soundtrack - mainly for the Silver Shamrock jingle) and she has yet to pick NIN. I've put the poppier NIN tracks and the instrumentals on for her occasionally and she likes to dance to them though. I can honestly say that I've no plans to introduce any more NIN to her.

I always skip any songs with swearing or that sound too depressing or contains overly sexual lyrics. It just doesn't seem appropriate. Whilst I've nothing against that, it doesn't seem like her learning to copy such words or lyrics at such a young age, especially around other people, is really going to do her any favours.
Who knows when children are old enough to start delving into stuff like that. The way I see it: until she is able to take an active interest in her own right, it doesn't really matter. And even still I'd probably rather she just enjoyed "happy happy" dancing songs until she was well into her teens to be honest.

[m15a]

this topic seems to come up every once in a while. but, now, with so much NIN music out there, it's kind of like, why not skip TDS or make a copy missing a couple songs. like some people suggested above, i think the biggest issue is with the most blatant songs, really. like, "Big Man with a Gun" . . even fairly open minded adults have trouble coping with the subject. and also, the lyrics are pretty easy to follow and pretty dark no matter how you interpret it. personally, if i had a 6 year old son, i wouldn't want to worry about whether he'll get mad at another student and start slamming his crotch into their face or something. (on the other hand, i don't have or want to have kids. i don't want to have to worry about them at all. so what do i know?)

as for teenagers, talking to some recently and remembering what i do from high school, i think they could use a little broadening of their horizons. sometimes i am sort of shocked by how broad their concept of evil or "wrong" is. how quick they are to judge and how unsympathetic.

as for the music as a whole, of course. it's great *and* it has sort of a good range of things that a person can latch onto, a lot of entry points, i guess. i started writing music shortly after starting to listening to NIN, and, for me, i'm sure it's as big an influence and inspiration as any.

[ChasingTheGhost]

More likely going to raise mine on Depeche Mode and Nine Inch Nails. Just like my father raised me on Zeppelin and Floyd.

I've discovered NIN when I was 8 and bought TDS when I was 13. I was hooked. I also remember getting in trouble in school for singing Closer.

[redshoewearer]

@redshoewearer (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=166) - I thought I'd like to see your take on this too. However, from what I've read, your kids are way beyond being old enough to get into NIN anyway. I just like to know what NIN fans that are parents think of this too. Whoa, that was some awkward wording there. :p

Yeah they're older now - but they like NIN too. I never held them back - I followed my parents' model regarding art. For the most part they were glad I was reading and paying attention to culture, so they didn't restrict what I read or listened to. I think if you have a decent relationship with your kids, you can *discuss* what you are listening to. Sometimes people/parents have a hard time differentiating art from the artist. Suppose your kid listens to TDS. Does that mean he has to be like that or he's going to become like that? No more than if he read Macbeth. TDS takes you inside the head of a very troubled person, who as the name suggests, is going downhill. (I don't mean TR, I mean the guy in the record). It is a poignant and fascinating masterpiece, not to mention good music.

Now the younger one listens to R Kelly, Usher, Bisbal, and is in college to sing opera. But it was she who suggested we put on The Fragile driving home from Lolla when we had to drive late into the night last month.

Each family and child is different. Don't impose or withhold. Put out the buffet of art and culture and let them sample. And don't make the mistake of thinking that because you expose or don't expose them to particular music, that they won't develop their own personality and probably like some stuff that you roll your eyes at no matter what your taste - I don't mean the artists I listed above though.

[martin_b]

My son (2 years and 4 months old) loves "Copy Of A" and "Came Back Haunted".

Everytime when we are turning on our audio system, he demands one of these two songs by singing: "Copy, Copy, Copy!" or "Came Back Maslo" ("maslo" means "butter" in Polish - I have no idea why he is singing "Came Back Butter" - this is still a huge mistery for me). Despite the fact that my son will become/is becoming a Polish native speaker ;-) he is quite good in singing these two NIN songs by repeating (with a perfect timing) phrases like "black black black black black" or "beeee" or "believe" or "shado-shado-shado".

He likes BMWAG and Reptile too. ;-)

Ow, and BTW: it's really cool to hear my kid when he is singing NIN. :-)

[Tyson]

As someone that worked in childcare for six years, other people's kids, no. My nieces and nephews, select songs. My kids, which I will never have, yes. I listened to, watched and read worse when I was younger, and I grew into someone who understands perfectly the differences between right and wrong, when things are appropriate and inappropriate to say or do. I'm courteous and well mannered, especially in the presence of elders etc. Why? Because my mother played an active role in teaching me how to behave properly. I wouldn't force NIN upon my children, but if they expressed a real interest, and I thought they were ready for it I think there's nothing wrong with it when coupled with proper parental guidance.

[KarenLeslie]

My son (2 years and 4 months old) loves "Copy Of A" and "Came Back Haunted".

Everytime when we are turning on our audio system, he demands one of these two songs by singing: "Copy, Copy, Copy!" or "Came Back Maslo" ("maslo" means "butter" in Polish - I have no idea why he is singing "Came Back Butter" - this is still a huge mistery for me). Despite the fact that my son will become/is becoming a Polish native speaker ;-) he is quite good in singing these two NIN songs by repeating (with a perfect timing) phrases like "black black black black black" or "beeee" or "believe" or "shado-shado-shado".

Thank you for sharing that, that is beyond adorable :).


He likes BMWAG and Reptile too. ;-)


....:(

I remember when this topic came up years ago, although I didn't post, and the consensus swung very much the other way. I think it's kind of a different question now though, since so much of the NIN material released in the last half-decade is instrumentals and songs with no overtly objectionable content-- doesn't HM only have one song that contains a swear word? I think it was a lot easier to have a gut reaction of "No way!" when With_Teeth was the most recent album released.

I hope I can have kids some time over the next few years, and I honestly don't know what tack to take with this. I have no issue with the poppier NIN songs like EDIETS, but songs with dark themes and cursing I would probably skip, just to keep the kid from parroting back the lyrics. I realize there's a whole deeper debate about whether exposing kids to dark themes at a young age, with proper explanation, is actually more helpful to their development than shielding them from it (or whether vapid, bubblegum pop is actually more insidiously harmful to impressionable children in a different way) but I'm not addressing that right now-- I just wouldn't want the kid singing Closer in the supermarket ^^;;

[EndlessLoveless]

My wife is pregnant and due in a month. Ive been playing nothing but nine inch nails and the beatles through headphones into her belly. Start 'em early.

[sentient02970]

My daughter has been playing Rock Band drums and vocals for Capital G since she was like 9. Although the Rock Band version is edited for lyrical content she knows the song by heart now and will recognize it if I'm playing YZ in the car. I got her getting into Ghosts now. I loved that when I played it she was like "wow this is Nine Inch Nails??" lol

[martin_b]

Thank you for sharing that, that is beyond adorable :).

Heh, you should see him when he is dancing with me and my wife (on my arms). It's pretty funny. I will try to record him and post a video here. :-)


....:(

I remember when this topic came up years ago, although I didn't post, and the consensus swung very much the other way. I think it's kind of a different question now though, since so much of the NIN material released in the last half-decade is instrumentals and songs with no overtly objectionable content-- doesn't HM only have one song that contains a swear word? I think it was a lot easier to have a gut reaction of "No way!" when With_Teeth was the most recent album released.

I hope I can have kids some time over the next few years, and I honestly don't know what tack to take with this. I have no issue with the poppier NIN songs like EDIETS, but songs with dark themes and cursing I would probably skip, just to keep the kid from parroting back the lyrics. I realize there's a whole deeper debate about whether exposing kids to dark themes at a young age, with proper explanation, is actually more helpful to their development than shielding them from it (or whether vapid, bubblegum pop is actually more insidiously harmful to impressionable children in a different way) but I'm not addressing that right now-- I just wouldn't want the kid singing Closer in the supermarket ^^;;

Well, you got me wrong. :-) My son will become a Polish native speaker, so he does not understand at this moment what TR lyrics mean. But he really enjoy BMWAG, Closer and Reptile because these songs have a very clear beat (rythm). This means that he considers these songs only in a category of "oooowwww yeah, this song is very fast so I will work out my father's arms once again!".

And starting from a week ago or so, he demands to play the video stream from "Made In America Festival" everyday when there is a time for a nap... Seriously! When "1,000,000" is going to be played, he sleeps and I put him to his bed. The best part is that his "adventure with NIN" started when I played the CBH for the first time. I told him that "now we will listen a mister from USA" and he remembered that those songs are sung by "a mister". And this "adventure" was really unexpected.

PS. There is also one additional thing: when we play around with DUPLO bricks, everytime when he overhears a song that he knows and likes ("Meat Your Master" or "The Line Begins To Blur" or any other NIN song) he says "I likes that" (yes I used the "likes" form intentionally here :-) and start to dance.

[hani]

when I was a little boy, I listened to everything my mom was listening to (Red Hot Chili Peppers, Nirvana, The Prodigy) and I always loved it. never felt violated by it, and I still love those bands and this music.

[ericy210]

NIN yes, heroin no. At least until puberty.

[KarenLeslie]

Well, you got me wrong. :-) My son will become a Polish native speaker, so he does not understand at this moment what TR lyrics mean. But he really enjoy BMWAG, Closer and Reptile because these songs have a very clear beat (rythm). This means that he considers these songs only in a category of "oooowwww yeah, this song is very fast so I will work out my father's arms once again!".


I get that he doesn't understand the words so he's not being disturbed by the song. I just can't get past the idea that you probably shouldn't play a song about rape at gunpoint to small children on general principal.

Also? Whenever someone says "My parents let me do X when I was younger, and I turned out fine!" I am deeply suspicious. How do you know?

[martin_b]

I get that he doesn't understand the words so he's not being disturbed by the song. I just can't get past the idea that you probably shouldn't play a song about rape at gunpoint to small children on general principal.

Also? Whenever someone says "My parents let me do X when I was younger, and I turned out fine!" I am deeply suspicious. How do you know?

You are probably right. However BMWAG was Player about 2 or 3 times in general while COA, CBH and the rest of HM songs are played over and over everyday.

[Tyson]

Also? Whenever someone says "My parents let me do X when I was younger, and I turned out fine!" I am deeply suspicious. How do you know?


I grew into someone who understands perfectly the differences between right and wrong, when things are appropriate and inappropriate to say or do. I'm courteous and well mannered, especially in the presence of elders etc. Why? Because my mother played an active role in teaching me how to behave properly.

Furthermore, I'm a law abiding citizen, never assaulted, murdered or raped anyone. Never had to talk myself out of doing any of those things etc. and I don't have any mental disorders.

By the time I listened to TDS I had already seen my share of horror/slasher movies and so forth, and knew that Jason Voorhees was a BAD GUY and not an anti-hero. I also knew that TDS wasn't about a guy you wanted to be. It was about what happens to you when you do all the screwed up stuff your parents tell you not to do.

You know, one example of me doing something and getting reprimanded, when I was young I got really obsessed with WWF and Hulk Hogan. I started emulating his wrestling moves, and my mom said, "No more watching wrestling for a while" sat me down and explained why I couldn't just run around doing wrestling moves on other kids. Because of that, as an adult, I know that resorting to physical violence is something you only do to protect yourself in the real world.

Like I said. I know the difference between right and wrong and when things are appropriate and inappropriate to say or do. And I know that BMWAG is a fucked up song even in the context of a fictional narrative. So... am I fine? I'd say so. I'm not perfect, but I definitely have a moral compass that's very well calibrated.

[Halo Infinity]

I knew I forgot to post this video here. Somebody could send this to Trent. I wonder how he'd react to this now that he's a father. :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfGCcRwqeKA

@johnbron (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=5) - That's you, right? ;)

[johnbron]

I knew I forgot to post this video here. Somebody could send this to Trent. I wonder how he'd react to this now that he's a father. :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfGCcRwqeKA

@johnbron (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=5) - That's you, right? ;)
Yep. It's just hard to believe that was eight years ago. I'll have to make an update with us all jumping on the bed to Satellite.

[Khrz]

"Meat Your Master"

Ooooh, kinky !

[eversonpoe]

Yep. It's just hard to believe that was eight years ago. I'll have to make an update with us all jumping on the bed to Satellite.

oh my god, that video is so fucking cute.

also, you kinda look like steven wilson :D

[Halo Infinity]

My opinion on 11 and 12 year olds not being too young to listen to Nine Inch Nails remains the same. Those ages seem to be the youngest ages most people first starting getting into music. I could still see why 8 and under would be considered too young by lots though, or even 9 or 10. But even 9 and 10 don't look too young for me. But of course that still depends on the child as every child is different.

As far as getting into NIN early on, to me, 11 to 12 seems like the perfect time to get into NIN. That's only a mere one to two years before becoming a teenager anyway. I also noticed that there were some fans that were 11 to 12 in 1989 that actually became fans between 1989 to 1991. But of course, they were all teenagers by 1991. So it's not like they had a long way before becoming a 13 year old NIN fan by then.

As for some of the music videos and NIN videos in general, they're clearly R-rated and X-rated, but I only meant to discuss the music alone, and none of the videos, but I can still understand/accept that it comes with it anyway. Just because you let an 11 year old or a 12 year old listen to Broken doesn't mean that you have to show them the Broken movie, or let them know about it. (Not that you have to lie about it either, but you don't have to bring it up.)

[OSLIN]

My son is two and loves Me, I'm Not. He sings,"Heeeeeey, not". It makes me smile. He is only two so I rarely let him listen to NIN, I use discretion when it comes to the "darker" elements of NIN. He's never heard anything off of Broken or TDS... yet.

[DirtyLittleHeart]

I just couldn't resist. It's sort of amusing... now that there really IS a song called Everything. The horror... oh Everything... the horror. :p

I wrote that post a while back...my now 16 yo daughter and I saw them Monday night in Raleigh. Frigging awesome. She's ruined for any other band now. :rolleyes:

[nin5in]

My 7 year old loves "Head Like a Hole". She screams out "I rather die than give you control".

[Charmingly Miserable]

I play select NIN songs for my 6 year old daughter. She loves Everything which was slightly annoying but then she'll ask me to play Kiss or Queen which even more annoying for me. I remember playing Year Zero (especially The Great Destroyer) a lot when I was pregnant with my daughter and she would rock out inside of me. I don't think Closer would be appropriate for her. Having said that, one of the reasons I find my daughter so amazing is that she has her own (generally) interesting taste in music; she'll listen to Tom Jones, Culture Club, Kiss (ugh) then to Purity Ring. So, having a little bit of NIN in her musical repertoire is good for her as long as its not the more "rougher" NIN songs.

[martin_b]

My 7 year old loves "Head Like a Hole". She screams out "I rather die than give you control".

My son screams out only the "HOLEEEE" and "DIEEEEEEEEEEEEE" phrases (because he is not English native speaker). :-)

[Charmingly Miserable]

Now that I've told my 6 year old that I saw NIN this past week and seen the merch and videos from the show, she is all about NIN. High five, Victoria.

[doucette]

i started listening to nin around 11 or 12 years old. ever since my little sister had a mp3 player around age 7 or 8, she's came to me usually once a year, asking to put new music on it. when she was that young, any nin i uploaded was along the lines of the still album, and the other quieter nin tracks from various albums. i knew she likely wouldn't enjoy the more aggressive songs at that age, and that also allowed me to avoid anything with especially vulgar lyrics. over the years, i slowly weaned her onto more nin (at her request). she's now 11, with the uncensored version of closer, only, etc, on her ipod. i still don't have anything like mr. self destruct or somewhat damaged uploaded, because i know that doesn't really appeal to her.

i wanted to give her the chance to listen to nin at a young age, because both my brother and i grew up listening to them, and the music grew incredibly precious to us. it helped both my brother and i through our parents divorce, serious medical issues i had as a teenager, etc. if she hadn't liked the music, then that's fine, but i wanted her to at least be exposed to the band the same way i was - if she connected with it, then awesome, she knows where to find me if she'd like more.

she still listens to the typical female teen music (taylor swift and ed sheeran), but she recently became her teacher's favourite student after he heard her listening to hesitation marks in class. i take a bit of pride in that, aha.

[Halo Infinity]

Man, back in the day, this thread was skewed completely the other way.... now I'm on my own...
I just thought I'd bring up this post along with the point that it really is amazing just how skewed it became in under 10 years nonetheless. It seems more acceptable now than ever for some reason. I still thought that you had some very valid points though.

[Omega]

I started listening to NIN when I was 12 when they first came out in 89...sooo. LOL but I am old now and so I probably wouldn't have my kids listen to NIN if I had any. Maybe the clean ones. Older now! LOL.

[WorzelG]

I haven't been playing this latest album to my kids, I played Ghosts to my youngest who was born in 2008 when it came out. I've been listening to the album on the laptop with my sennheiser headphones and singing along to it, and suddenly my 5 year old starts singing the 'stretch across the sky' bit from All Time Low but just from hearing me sing it, he sounded in tune though so maybe I'm not quite as off-key as I think I am

[Calla lily]

My kids are 9 and 11. There are some NIN songs I don't think they should be listening to. It's not the curse words because they have already been exposed to that and are old enough to know not to repeat said words (at least when I'm around), it's the context of some of the songs. They are not emotionally ready for some of the songs, but if they were, I wouldn't have a problem with them listening, at least the 11 1/2 year old.

[Halo Infinity]

I would definitely agree with you. I can actually understand why most people would think that it's not a good idea for having children in grades 5 and under to listen to Nine Inch Nails. However, I still feel convinced that 6th graders are old enough to handle Pretty Hate Machine, Broken, The Downward Spiral, The Fragile, and With Teeth.

Ages 11 and 12 don't seem to be too young for that, and most parents seem to allow their kids to listen to whatever by the time they're 13+. There are obviously exceptions though, because I remember being in high school with other students that had parents that still didn't approve of their kids having CDs with profanities on them at the time.

(This was also like around 1996-2004, as I've also noticed other kids listening to all sorts of rock and rap back then, and hence the mention of CDs still being used regularly.)

[Calla lily]

I think I was a freshman in high school when I bought my first Metallica tape (I say tape because this was back '88). My mom wanted to listen to it and check out the lyrics. She didn't like it, but let me keep it, and then never questioned my music choices again, just told me to turn it down lol. And when 2 Live Crew's As Nasty As They Wanna Be came out, people freaked. That album makes Closer seem like a lullaby.

[ZeroSum]

I think that video of the dad and his girls jumping on the bed just made me want to have kids....

When I got into NIN, I was 16 years old. Year Zero had just come out. I didn't own any records prior to it other than a few Weird Al Yankovic albums. I grew up in a very rural farming community, my parents and everyone I knew only listened to country and Christian music. Anything else I knew of was often cast in a negative light- "devil worshipping rock n roll" and "violent, morally corrupt hip hop/rap." At that age of 16, I was in that prime angsty phase. I knew something was wrong and fucked up with the sheltered community I was growing up in. I didn't fit in at all, I saw the holes in their religion, I didn't agree with the popular political views, but I went along with it all begrudgingly because what else was I supposed to do? I knew nothing else other than this little voice inside my head telling me that they were all wrong- but that voice was quiet. Not enough to rouse me from being that average small town kid.

One day a cousin just told me to listen to Nine Inch Nails, and within the next couple of weeks, I bought a copy of Year Zero. I still remember the impact it had before I even listened to the music. The imagery on the inside of the album was incredibly profound to me in my situation- I'm speaking of that picture of the man holding the bible in one hand and a machine gun in the other. It represented the type of shit I had been thinking for years but never really could put the words to. It seems like a pretty simple case of symbolism nowadays, but back then it was world changing, eye opening. I was shaking as I put the disc into the stereo- it felt like what I was about to listen to would be so wrong in the eyes of all the overzealous Christians I knew, and it was scary to be breaking their rules like that. But I knew I agreed with what that image represented, so I cautiously headed down the rabbit hole that album opened up for me. The sounds, the lyrics, and the message were all so much different from anything I had ever heard before. There was no slow progression into the world of NIN for me, I just dove in head first. I remember listening to it straight through and not even moving, just sitting in my room and staring at the wall and thinking, holy fucking shit, what is this? It's weird, it's scary, it's noisy, it's disorienting, it's different- it's fucking awesome! I remember doing nothing the rest of the weekend except to Year Zero over and over and over, and look up everything I could about the ARG. I then slowly made my way through the back catalog... and had my mind blown over and over again. NIN woke me the fuck up. It made me get my shit together. It taught me to truly believe in something, to stand up for myself, to be fucking pissed about all the injustices I saw happening in certain establishments. And it taught me to appreciate and recognize beauty in a completely new way. It's weird how music about so much self destruction made me value myself so much more. I guess I just finally had a voice. And, it also taught me that I fucking love music. I've gotten into so many bands and seen so many shows now that it's kind of mind-boggling to think about. I love it.

So it's really difficult for me to imagine what it would be like to hear music like NIN as a kid. If I grew up jamming TDS and TF, chances are I'd still love them, but they would have a completely different meaning to me. Stuff like this is so strange to think about. If I have kids someday, and I catch them going through my old cds or something, I know I'd definitely have to sit down with them and get their thoughts about what they heard. Give them some context. All that good stuff. Hopefully I would have the composure to keep a huge fucking smile off of my face while giving this stern lecture, though.

[DigitalChaos]

My 3 year old loves to come up to me and go "H - H - HAUN - TED"

He has listened to most of the NIN catalog. I usually skip over Closer just because it's a bit... much. Everything else is a demonstration of context. There are words and ideas that are fine in context of a song, but not your classroom. So far so good!

[Frolick Shiawase]

Holy crap! I saw this topic and HAD to register and comment on this! (hi, everyone. I'm a lurker since a long time)
Well, you see, my experience with music was not subtle nor tame in any sense of the words. I hope you enjoy it, it is a kinda long read:

My mother used to listen to MCR, Black Sabbath, Metallica, and most importantly, Marilyn Manson. She owned lots of songs that were mainly downloaded and without context.
Y'see, I never feared this music, nor it waked up my killer instinct or something like that. I actually liked it. But my grandma was terrified about me listening to such "scary and satanic music"
I'll give her some credit, tho. Marilyn Manson has some... interesting music, to say the least.
Well, after my grandmother gave me a lecture about how the devil and corruption (Ah, catholic religion.) and I started fearing that music... The side effects were a fear of videogames, music, the color red and darkness that haunted me for two years or so, tho (that was when I was 5, more or less...)
When I was 9 (It was 2002), when Internet was a normal thing to have in a common house I had my first dosage of NIN: The Perfect Drug music video... I was awestruck at the images, the sound, the colors... the almost epileptic breakdown... My mother and I watched it together, and I can't remember what she commented exactly, but she noticed I got excited...

Enter the P2P downloading system... Soon enough, I stumbled into Closer. I had just learned my first English swear words, and naturally, as a kid I went on to download it, along with Head Like A Hole, Burn and, of course, The Perfect Drug.
I listened to the infamous Closer, and found out it was a good song, but I didn't love it as much as Burn or TPD. HLAH was "Meh."
I shared the PC with my mom, and she soon discovered I downloaded Closer. She then she asked me if I knew what it meant. I naturally said "no, I just know it's something bad, but I don't know much about the song"
She then tells me not to see the video or to sing it in public.
I could listen to Closer all I wanted, but she told me to wait until I was older to know about the meaning and all that.

Time went on, and I ended up.... completely normal.
Yeah, i think I can't really emit a judgement from a parent's point of view (My mother currently likes NIN to death. She secretely likes me buying the physical halos) but from a personal point of view, I think it's a matter of perspective.

If you educate your kids about what's right, what's wrong, when exposed to "dirty" material, they will learn how to automatically discern from what's acceptable to say or to do, and what isn't. In my case, my mother was always looking at what I heard, and explaining why a song is good or bad (She made me delete Te Quiero Puta from Rammstein, for example, while letting me listen to Closer)

That's my personal experience and opinion. I hope you enjoyed the read, and sorry for making it so long... I HAD to share this.

[Halo Infinity]

HLAH was "Meh."

What a fantastic and lovely read, and this certainly proves that there can be 9 year olds that can be ready for Nine Inch Nails. :D However, that was the only truly shocking thing about this. Most new fans tend eat Head Like A Hole right up, especially if they were introduced to the likes of The Perfect Drug and Closer first. ;)

And well, hopefully Head Like A Hole and the rest of Pretty Hate Machine grew on you too. :)

[Frolick Shiawase]

And well, hopefully Head Like A Hole and the rest of Pretty Hate Machine grew on you too. :)

Yes, of course it did! Matter of fact, it was the second Halo I bought.

Personally, I like That's What I Get better than Head Like A Hole, but still, the whole of Pretty Hate Machine is something that has grown into me.

A curious thing was that I first started listening to the music for the music itself... Now, ten years later, the feelings and memories have grown into the songs... At first TWIG was just a song, and now it's a whole memory... It's fascinating for me, to tell the truth

[Halo Infinity]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEn4rsIM4nQ

[Charmingly Miserable]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEn4rsIM4nQ
Ok. Her voice is super annoying but she is spot on. Kudos.

The other day, I was remarking how my 91 year old grandmother has super long nails. I told her that she practically had nine inch nails. My 6 year old daughter's face lit up and told me, "Mom! You said, 'nine inch nails!!!!!!!'" I love my daughter!

[theimage13]

Without even listening to this, my post is based solely on the title:

No babies at concerts. Ever. Period.

I mean...if we're talking some book store concert for kids, that's one thing. But do not take tiny children to a concert of ear shattering proportions. You don't get to ruin their hearing just so you can go see a show.

[sheepdean]

Don't fucking bring babies anywhere, leave them in boxes until they're old enough to understand me telling them to go away

#grumpyoldman

[icecream]

I agree with theimage. Part of having a kid, to me (I don't have any), is giving up some freedom to take care of it. If you want to go to a loud\any concert, don't bring the baby if you can't get a sitter. You might think your baby is the greatest and most mature toddler, but no one will be impressed when it starts crying. Been to two shows when this has happened, my first NIN show and the second time I saw Leonard Cohen. Both times everyone around me was upset someone would bring a baby to the show.

[sheepdean]

I agree with theimage. Part of having a kid, to me (I don't have any), is giving up some freedom to take care of it. If you want to go to a loud\any concert, don't bring the baby if you can't get a sitter. You might think your baby is the greatest and most mature toddler, but no one will be impressed when it starts crying. Been to two shows when this has happened, my first NIN show and the second time I saw Leonard Cohen. Both times everyone around me was upset someone would bring a baby to the show.
Thankfully I only had it once - but it was at a classical music recital. If I had been near that kid, it would've gone head first out the door.

But yeah, if they're not old enough to sing along, probably not old enough to bring. Get a sitter etc

[icecream]

Both times it was during the quiet parts of the set. Ghosts and a poem recitation.

[martin_b]

Yesterday my son once again wanted to listen Sanctified. Since the ACL show stream is available on their web site, this is his favour version of Sanctified. So, I played it on TV and we started to "dance" (well holding 17 kg son while he is jumping to NIN songs is quite tiring and cannot be named as "dancing"). As always he was singing:

Just...FIEEEED! Pu...FIEEEED! San...FIEEEED! ...in YOUUUUUU-UUUU-UUUUUU.

But then something happened! My son asked me:
- "Daddy, who you like most?" (I'm unable to translate it perfectly from Polish, because his questions have some grammar problems)
- Well, I like this man (Josh Eustis). And who do you like?
- [Silence, nothing special, silence once again, then Trent is going back on camera and my son yelled] THIS MAAAAN! THIS MAAN! AND LAIDIES!

Heh, that was something really awesome. I must record him with my camera, while he is singing Copy of A, Came Back Haunted or Sanctified. It's mind-blowing.

[elevenism]

i got into nin at 12 with Broken (and backtracked to PHM) and can honestly say that it DID, in fact, alter me, specifically regarding the way i thought relationships were supposed to be.

[Calla lily]

Without even listening to this, my post is based solely on the title:

No babies at concerts. Ever. Period.

I mean...if we're talking some book store concert for kids, that's one thing. But do not take tiny children to a concert of ear shattering proportions. You don't get to ruin their hearing just so you can go see a show.

This is why for a few years, I didn't go to any concerts. I wasn't about to take my young children and had no babysitter. That has since changed.

[BrownEyedStatistic]

I'd like to introduce the kind of music I enjoy to my children one day. Nine Inch Nails will be one of them.

[Halo Infinity]

I'm still amazed at how different this thread has gone in this decade. Anyway, I was still curious enough to bring up this question again, as I've found it interesting, since it's about late childhood and very early adolescence, considering how most people agree that high school students are old enough to listen to Nine Inch Nails. This is also just curiosity yet again, as I don't mean to argue with anybody that believes otherwise. As for me, I've always thought that middle school students are old enough to listen to Nine Inch Nails. However, it really does seem like most people at ETS would still be okay with it this time around anyway.

Would some of you also still say that middle school students as far as ages 11 and 12 are too young to listen to Nine Inch Nails?

I was just wondering again, as I've seen many posters state that even 11 year olds and 12 year olds are too young to be listening to NIN when this thread was skewed in the opposite direction. I've also checked the other pages of this thread, and most of them seem to talk about kids under 9. I could also still understand people objecting kids 10 and under from listening to NIN though.

[BrownEyedStatistic]

I think the best time to introduce a kid to NIN is when the kid itself asks for help finding music that has deeper meaning. Most kids don't care about that, so if you just happened to meet (or give birth to) one that DOES care, why not see what happens. Of course, tell the kid not to take everything trent says in his lyrics at face value.

You know, does this could possibly help build a better relationship with kids...Maybe even teach them a thing or two...give them a new perspective.

I think that's what more kids need...to be exposed to real world, and have it broken down to them. Most kids take things at face value or how they choose to perceive it because there's no one around willing to look at the pictures they drew and have a conversation with them.

Sure, talking to babies can be hard, but it's probably extremely rewarding.

[Thomas W Jefford]

When I have my little one in the car I dont worry what I play over the stereo, he will dance along to most things haha. I'm not too bothered by how it will effect him.
I was 9 when Outkast's Stankonia album came out and I used to sing the fuck out of "I'll call before I come" I had absolutely no idea what it meant.
Only to listen to it again maybe 6/7 years later and laughed at myself.

[DigitalChaos]

My kid just rolled 4 and discovered Manson on his own. I'm still unsure what to think.

[DigitalChaos]

My 4 year old after seeing a bit of the '94 Woodstock performance:

*trent starts beating on his keyboard*
"If he doesn't like it, he should pick a different instrument"

*trent starts swinging a mic stand around*
"He is messing up EVERYTHING. That's not nice."

*NIN exists after trashing the stage*
"Well, now everyone is leaving because there is nothing left to play. That's sad."

[Halo Infinity]

This actually made the news.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-nails-song-soothes-crying-baby-article-1.1857204

http://www.mtv.com/news/1861841/badass-baby-only-stops-crying-for-nine-inch-nails/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TurAQpptL0

[Halo Infinity]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPoY2vwVBGA

[Ponderance]

My daughter rocks out to pantera. Loves NIN, Manson, Run The Jewels, Aphex Twin (which surprised me) .. She's almost 2.

I don't plan on teaching her to be terrified and stunned every time she hears whatever voodoo bad words or whatever the flavor of the moment thing is to be shocked about. Trying to teach her logic, reasoning, and above all context. There's a time and place for everything, and I'm trying to keep her as broad as possible for as long as possible.

I think her favorite song is the intro music for the late show with stephen colbert. So far it's the one song that no matter what she's doing or where we are, if she hears it, she drops what she's doing and waves her arms around in the air.

[BRoswell]

I don't have kids of my own, but I do have a nephew, and his dad (who was the one who turned me onto Nine Inch Nails in the first place) plays some tracks for him sometimes. Ghosts I-IV gets a lot of play just because it's an instrumental album, and he also seems to enjoy The Fragile as well.

[buckaroo]

I avoid anything overly loud or with any strong language, but my 6 year old daughter and I sing along to Came Back Haunted in the car regularly. My 5 month old son loves the Before the Flood score.

[Halo Infinity]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONO3oOR-fEg

The kid is actually just as old as The Hand That Feeds/With Teeth on this video.

To also add a point along with the video, it seems like it really still remains to be quite the 180 when this topic first graced the old ETS back when all there was to NIN was Pretty Hate Machine to With Teeth. It was a parent back in 2006 wondering whether or not NIN was okay to have his kids listen to NIN and which songs to leave out if so. There were even a lot of posts also saying that NIN might not be suitable for 11 year olds and 12 year olds and basically deemed NIN to be a 13+ band. I've seen kids even younger than 11 at the last NIN show I attended. On the other hand, even with NIN, sometimes I can't always base things solely on ETS, and it's often/generally a case to case basis contingent on the individual.

With that being said, I still like how well this thread has done overall, and it's still one of my favorite threads to read sometimes while lurking, considering just how amazing and pleasantly surprising the shift turned out to be. I suppose what also interested me about this is because I never really saw NIN as a 13+ band, ever, even back then. Single digits aside, 10-12 are often the earliest ages people start getting into music anyway.

@henryeatscereal (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1572) @piggy (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=568) - I checked and noticed that @elevenism (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2475) posted here, but was also interested to see what your take on this topic was so far. I'd hope and I'm sure you'd understand, since this has been one of my favorite NIN topics on ETS since 2006, as I always love seeing any interests of mine defy/transcend generation gaps.

[versusreality]

grew up listening to NIN- my parents played the PHM cassette in 89/90 when I was about 4 years old and followed the journey throughout the 90's with them.

I was 7 when I watched Dawn of the Dead for the first time with my dad.

Turned out fine. *shrug*

[piggy]

I guess I kind of fall into the 13+ camp for listening to NIN, at least when it comes to the grittier subject matter. I'm not a parent, but I wouldn't personally want my kid(s) being exposed to that until they're old enough to handle it. If we're talking about poppy "mainstream" tracks, such as HLAH or THTF, that's not an issue at all. Let 'em hear it.

I think it's probably a crapshoot for each kid, case-by-case basis and all that jazz. I remember first hearing TDS when I was about 13 and I have to admit that I was pretty disturbed by it. I didn't grow up being exposed to a lot of edgy music or movies, though, so YMMV for sure.

Once they are older and going through some shit, though, that's different. I would intentionally introduce them to NIN in the hopes that it would foster good taste, an open mind about music, and an emotional outlet for their issues.

[henryeatscereal]

@henryeatscereal (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1572) @piggy (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=568) - I checked and noticed that @elevenism (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2475) posted here, but was also interested to see what your take on this topic was so far. I'd hope and I'm sure you'd understand, since this has been one of my favorite NIN topics on ETS since 2006, as I always love seeing any interests of mine defy/transcend generation gaps.
Well, i started listening to NIN when i was 13...

By that moment i already heard some bands like The Doors, Rolling Stones, Nirvana and Soundgarden; but even then i could tell NIN was "something else".
My very first impression of the band was the "Closer" video. I remember that even though it was the censored version, i got obsessed and even scared with the bands imagery.

So i guess it was both a pleasant, but also a shocking experience, i guess i wasn't a "little kid", but i don't think i was fully prepared for that experience (but that was also a great thing...)
But that was the 90's... nowadays kids can be exposed to much more shocking stuff just with a "click" on their phones.

So, i guess i got no problem with small children listening to NIN's music; maybe just for the profanity i would "keep it away" from kids, but honestly; that's not really one of my concerns (i got not kids i don't think i'm ever having them and i could care less).

I guess if someone asked me, i would "recommend" the band for kids 13 years or older, but in my experience things can be shocking at any age when you don't keep an open mind..

[eachpassingphase]

As with many parenting things, my opinion on all this has evolved with each kid. My general view is that because every kid is different, you really can't draw an arbitrary line in the sand for what age music is appropriate for a kid.

My son is turning 11 in April, and he is SO different from me at 11. I was already fully immersed in music fanaticism and lusting after rock stars like a dweeb. My brother bought his first guitar at 11 and was trying to play Metallica songs. My son still thinks girls have cooties and just wants to play Roblox all day. He has zero interest in music at this point, so the content thing hasn't come up there yet.


My daughter is totally different. She's seven, but as I've mentioned on here before she has some serious disabilities. Her cognitive skills put her somewhere around the 18-month development stage. She LOVES music and specifically likes NIN. It's complicated because I wouldn't ordinarily let the most mature 7-year-old in the world listen to a song with the word "fuck" in it, mostly because kids that age will just blurt out words they've overheard. But...as far as we can tell she doesn't really know what any of those lyrics are and might not ever understand them, and she's largely non-verbal so it's not like she's going to be singing "Closer" at school or something.

We tend to throw that Tension video from Vevo on the tv when she's stressed out and that helps her calm down. I think it's a combination of the cool lights and the music that she enjoys. But one day while watching some NIN concert she was shoving toys into a little bottle and shaking them, trying to use the bottle like a tambourine. It was darling, so we bought her an actual tambourine and now she shakes it while Trent has his out, which makes me all weepy like an idiot. She loves it, it seems harmless in her very specific and unusual situation, so we are letting it go and just letting her enjoy it.

The smart thing my parents did for me as a teenager was by telling me "you can listen to the music you want to listen to, but if you are going to buy adult music then you need to be able to have adult conversations about it." So any time I wanted to buy a CD with a parental advisory sticker on it, I had to sit down with my parents go over the lyrics with them on either the computer or the CD booklet. Those were some awkward, but GOOD, conversations about music, art, and humanity as a whole. We did this with Manson's Antichrist Superstar, the Downward Spiral and more. My mom would just ask me questions about the lyrics like "what do you think he means by that?" or "have you ever felt that way?" or "what do you like about this song?". It forced me to actually think about what I was listening to and articulate why I liked it.

Anyway, I don't think there's a perfect "right" answer to that question because no kid is the same.

[bobbie solo]

The smart thing my parents did for me as a teenager was by telling me "you can listen to the music you want to listen to, but if you are going to buy adult music then you need to be able to have adult conversations about it." So any time I wanted to buy a CD with a parental advisory sticker on it, I had to sit down with my parents go over the lyrics with them on either the computer or the CD booklet. Those were some awkward, but GOOD, conversations about music, art, and humanity as a whole. We did this with Manson's Antichrist Superstar, the Downward Spiral and more. My mom would just ask me questions about the lyrics like "what do you think he means by that?" or "have you ever felt that way?" or "what do you like about this song?". It forced me to actually think about what I was listening to and articulate why I liked it.

This is friggin great parenting. Kudos to them.

[eachpassingphase]

This is friggin great parenting. Kudos to them.

They both grew up with their parents burning their Motley Crue and Prince albums because of the devil or whatever. Jokes on my grandparents now: I work for a church and play NIN and Manson albums in my office loooool.

My mom, dad, and stepmom didn't want to stifle expression, but they also understood that the brains of kids aren't always able to process adult content properly. There's a nuance to parenting, like everything. Some kids really probably shouldn't be listening to certain content due to their individual maturity level, but that's why it's on the parents to sort out rather than the artist or the government etc.

[fillow]

Interesting how it goes in non-English speaking world. My parents wouldn't give a damn about the lyrics of my music because they don't speak English above elementary level. But most of my music just sounds like noise to my mom, and it goes for pretty much all alternative rock scene and other heavy stuff. She can tolerate when I play Pink Floyd or Bowie in her presence. But my attempts to play relatively mellow stuff like La Mer/Still (NIN), Radiohead, Massive Attack, some slow/quiet stuff by other bands (QOTSA, APC, Tool, TSP, etc) were not appreciated.

Much of my musical taste was actually formed by my sister (7 years older than me) and her then-boyfriend and his buddies. I'm forever thankful lol.