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DigitalChaos
03-09-2016, 08:40 PM
outube.com/watch?v=bJPkVIaxwP0
sure, but this doesn't refute the points made... especially the direct quotes from Sanders. "The daily beast sucks" has been the response of every Sanders supporter. None can directly address the issue.

aggroculture
03-11-2016, 09:25 AM
Glad other people online picked up on Rubio's inconsistent answer about climate change: climate change is not caused by humans, but if we were to try to curb it, it'd have no effect, because China and India would keep polluting. Marco, that's called having your cake and eating it. You can't hold both positions at the same time. His answer admits that he accepts that climate change is caused by humans. This is what happens when you lie: you risk exposing your true beliefs, which Rubio did last night.
What a world we live in, where we celebrate and reward those who openly lie to our faces.
Watching that debate made me a bit depressed about humanity.

onthewall2983
03-11-2016, 09:57 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdRm7bUW0AI4uka.jpg:large

elevenism
03-11-2016, 10:15 AM
I don't feel like going into specifics, but these republican primaries have reinforced and galvanized my realization that YOUR VOTE DOESN'T COUNT. AT ALL.
Especially if we go to a contested convention.

Bottom line? The US GODDAMN sure isn't a "democracy."

Mantra
03-11-2016, 10:21 AM
Carson endorsed Trump, says Trump is "very cerebral"

lol

http://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AAgENP8.img?h=394&w=624&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=592&y=383

allegro
03-11-2016, 10:42 AM
I don't feel like going into specifics, but these republican primaries have reinforced and galvanized my realization that YOUR VOTE DOESN'T COUNT. AT ALL.=
I'm not sure that will happen. The GOP will be shooting itself in the face, because Trump will probably go Independent and take all those GOP votes.

aggroculture
03-11-2016, 10:51 AM
I saw his closing statement last night as begging the Republican establishment to accept him as their candidate.
I think they will in the end. The alternatives seem a lot riskier, especially if it means publicly admitting they have no respect for what the majority of their members are asking for, which is Trump.

elevenism
03-11-2016, 02:57 PM
i'm not sure that it will either @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) , but it's possible, and so are myriad outcomes that wouldn't reflect the choice of the voters.

And during this strange mode of thought that i'm in, i thought about something. What if maybe, just maybe, trump IS a REAL outsider?
I've long been spouting that i wanted real change and i didn't care from whence it came, that i would endure a few years of right wing assholery to see it begin.
I know there's only like a 1 percent chance that this is the case, and i have a pretty good idea of what you're going to say, BUT...
could trump be a blessing in disguise? Could he be the beginning of real change in washington?

allegro
03-11-2016, 04:04 PM
could trump be a blessing in disguise? Could he be the beginning of real change in washington?
Well, Wall Street hates him (http://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/donald-trump-2016-wall-street-reaction-213614).

And he's right about China trade tariffs (http://www.cnbc.com/2016/03/11/trump-may-be-proven-right-on-china-tariffs-chang.html).

And his sister is a Judge who'd be one of the people who'd be advising him and, realistically, if he appointed a SCOTUS Judge about the worst we'd get with current Judges is a Roberts (because moralistic fossils on a SCOTUS level like Scalia just don't exist anymore and if they did they would not pass muster with the Senate Judicial Committee).

No President can single-handedly effect "change." But they sure can stir up a whole bunch of trouble and change their party and Congress, say more toward the center from the right and take some control from Wall Street? Kind of like what people have been saying about how Sanders can't possible get everything he's saying he wants, but he could get Congress to move more towards the center and take control from Wall Street?

edit: I think, also, that there is an "Art of War" belief that a strong scary leader sends an "impression" that says "don't fuck with us." And I think that's the military stance he's taking, kinda like Netanyahu or even Putin (which is why Russians love him and keep re-electing him). Although, Trump has said he is "neutral" regarding Israel and Palestine, which has pissed off a bunch of Jews, then Trump said fine, whatever, I don't need your money, anyway, then friggin' Farrakhan got on board the Trump train because he's anti semitic, LOL. See this LA Times article (http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0309-waxman-trump-palestine-israel-neutrality-20160309-story.html).

Mantra
03-11-2016, 05:50 PM
The whole brokered convention thing probably depends on how well Trump does. If he wins by a decent margin, I don't think they would dare try it cause it would be so blatantly undemocratic and impossible to justify. But if the final delegate count is kinda close, they might argue that they are acting in "the people's best interest" and have the right to steer it in whatever direction.

Timinator
03-11-2016, 07:55 PM
https://cthulhuforamerica.com/

GulDukat
03-11-2016, 07:55 PM
Anyone watching the Trump rally in Chicago?

Your Name Here
03-11-2016, 07:59 PM
.................

Swykk
03-11-2016, 08:13 PM
Annnnnnd...rally cancelled.

Welcome to Chicago, motherfucker!

implanted_microchip
03-11-2016, 08:24 PM
I'm just gonna say, protesting like that at a political rally and shouting about the candidate you prefer does not make your candidate look good. At all. Seeing people crashing a rally with Fuck Trump signs shouting about Bernie does not make anyone like Bernie more and does not make anybody like Trump less. It also does not help the stereotype of Bernie supporters at all. This situation is just crazy on every side right now.

Was there ever a time in this country where people could all disagree and still function? I'm not defending Trump at all -- he's a symptom of what I'm talking about here -- what happened to when it was alright for people to be politically different and it didn't condemn them, and people could be friends and have relationships and get along and work together regardless of their political views? I don't know, maybe I'm looking back on a time that doesn't exist, but this seems to be such a venomous, polarizing and childishly partisan election to an extreme degree. It's like every Democrat is convinced they're smarter than every Republican and every Republican is convinced of the narrative Fox News has been selling since Obama entered office. It's just sad. I don't get any joy out of witnessing everyone devolve into childish and over-reactive violent assholes and that stands for anyone on any side. It's just not how democracy should function, at all.

Hazekiah
03-11-2016, 09:04 PM
Has it even been violent at all, though?

Regardless, it's still nice to finally see see him hit a wall. I just worry that he might have intended this from the outset. A Trump rally in an urban college campus in a blue state? It was kinda bound to turn out like this.

Frozen Beach
03-11-2016, 09:33 PM
Has it even been violent at all, though?

https://twitter.com/JeffOrr773/status/708462102319472641
An officer was injured

DigitalChaos
03-11-2016, 09:43 PM
What if maybe, just maybe, trump IS a REAL outsider?
...
could trump be a blessing in disguise? Could he be the beginning of real change in washington?


Trump could be a blessing in disguise by imploding after becoming president. His "outsider" status means he doesn't have the typical power structures shielding him. He is more vulnerable. We are also at a time where the tools of political resistance haven't been this powerful in a very long time. Trump has the ability to galvanize bipartisan resistance too. His name also detaches a lot of "government problems" and they become "the Trump problem."

It's kind of a perfect storm.


Lance the Boil: How a Donald Trump Victory Might Be Good for Liberty (https://tucker.liberty.me/why-a-donald-trump-victory-could-be-great-for-liberty/)

allegro
03-11-2016, 09:53 PM
Has it even been violent at all, though?
yes, there has been violent altercations, and a few "protesters" (Sanders fans who get tickets to hear Trump speak but are really there to disrupt Trump) got hit by ticket-holders, one old Trump supporter dude in his 70s was arrested for assault the other day and they interviewed him and he said he did it because he thought the protester was disrespectful, heh. No, I do not believe that Trump WANTS violence but people in all camps are really fired up right now, this is heading the direction of the '68 Democratic Convention. People are pissed off and have different ideas of "change" and NOBODY wants the status quo. However, the way Trump handled the protesters earlier this afternoon was the old-fashioned 60s way (Nixon used to to tell hippy protesters to get a job, old Mayor Daley ordered his police to shoot to kill the protesters at the Dem convention and Daley was a Democrat), and that was probably a BAD idea because it will make the Bernie people worse.

Go read the comments on Clinton's Instagram feed, the Bernie fans are going fucking apeshit because Clinton was photographed in a coffeeshop in Detroit ("I recommend the coffee at Astro") but the chick behind the counter serving Clinton coffee (who knew her pic was being taken) wants her photo removed from Clinton's Instagram because she's voting for Bernie. So there's a tidal wave of #takeitdown and #imwithjill #feelthebeen wtf You served her some coffee, who fucking cares? People are overly worked up, angry, and this is like a boiling kettle right now.

Wolfkiller
03-11-2016, 11:30 PM
I wouldn't want my face publicly associated with her either, to be fair.

orestes
03-11-2016, 11:40 PM
God, I love Chicago activists. (https://twitter.com/TheMoeDee/status/708499698638839808)

allegro
03-11-2016, 11:57 PM
Heh, I cannot BELIEVE they chose that venue. Duh.

This is the most fun election season I can remember in a LONG time.

thevoid99
03-11-2016, 11:59 PM
Gracias Chicago.

allegro
03-12-2016, 12:02 AM
Gracias Chicago.

Don't thank Chicago, thank the Bern Unit and a bunch of students. Illinois has a Republican governor, Chicago has a Democrat mayor in big trouble, and it's a total shithole of trauma right now.

Your Name Here
03-12-2016, 12:12 AM
...............

orestes
03-12-2016, 12:16 AM
Yeah, there was definitely a joining of minds with the #byeanita movement.

https://chicagobond.org/trump_protest/index.html

onthewall2983
03-12-2016, 12:40 AM
Not only did he cancel tonight's rally in Chicago but he's cancelled Sunday's in Cincinnati. Got to think that means he'll take a hit in the Ohio primary, but he may have expected to lose their to Kasich anyway.

allegro
03-12-2016, 12:43 AM
Chicago did not give one shit about BLM, meaning zero presence or protests, until the Laquan McDonald case. But if you look at the majority of the people doing tugs-of-war with t-shirts and screaming at each other inside that building, they were white college students wearing various anti-Trump t-shirts or Bernie shirts.

A President can't fix Chicago's problems; Chicago has to fix Chicago's problems. We have had a black Democrat from Chicago in the White House for nearly 8 years and that ain't done shit for Chicago, and the Mayor used to work for him.

Anita Alvarez is up for re-election, we have a temp police superintendant because Rahm fired the last one after Laquan, and people are calling for Rahm to step down, and the Chicago Police Dept. is being investigated by the DOJ, but the President has nothing to do with any of that.

The Chicago's teacher's union is about to go on strike, the state is broke from pensions, the City of Chicago owes so much money Moody's gave it junk bond status (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2015/05/12/moodys-downgrades-chicago-to-junk-bond-status/), and the MAP state college grant program is not disbursing because the State Dems and Repubs are arguing and won't pass a state budget so thousands of students will not be able to return to college (165,000 students were already denied MAP grants that they were counting on for their tuition) (http://www.isac.org/home/map-matters/) and perhaps thousands of profs are facing layoffs (one is my best friend). Several colleges and universities have been holding protests in front of the Thompson Center and in Springfield (http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/former-gov-quinn-urges-rauner-to-pass-map-grant-funding-bill/?shared=email&msg=fail).

This is more likely to be the source of the protest organization. (http://www.meetup.com/berniesanders/events/229438090/#description-tab)

implanted_microchip
03-12-2016, 01:37 AM
Has it even been violent at all, though?

Regardless, it's still nice to finally see see him hit a wall. I just worry that he might have intended this from the outset. A Trump rally in an urban college campus in a blue state? It was kinda bound to turn out like this.
All the footage of idiots throwing shit and shoving each other was enough violence to count in my book.

Sallos
03-12-2016, 06:12 AM
Not a big fan on uncivil attempts to shut down free speech, but that's just me. Sure some here would be singing a different tune had this happen to another candidate though.

onthewall2983
03-12-2016, 07:16 AM
Well now I'm almost sure this will happen at a Sanders or Clinton rally, for "payback".

Swykk
03-12-2016, 07:26 AM
Seriously? The assclown has been advocating violence against his own protestors. I think it's sweet justice he got shut down by them. Also, free speech doesn't mean free from consequences.

Also, that woman hating bag of shit Matt Forney just called for Trump supporters to start bringing their guns to these rallies. If that doesn't prove that Trump appeals primarily to the lowest common denominator, I don't know what would.

onthewall2983
03-12-2016, 08:05 AM
Random question, but what is the best book to read on democratic socialism?

Sallos
03-12-2016, 08:09 AM
Seriously? The assclown has been advocating violence against his own protestors. I think it's sweet justice he got shut down by them. Also, free speech doesn't mean free from consequences.

Also, that woman hating bag of shit Matt Forney just called for Trump supporters to start bringing their guns to these rallies. If that doesn't prove that Trump appeals primarily to the lowest common denominator, I don't know what would.

Not allowing people to freely gather in a private place is a consequence you're willing to accept because you don't happen to support/like this candidate?

Frozen Beach
03-12-2016, 08:42 AM
http://i65.tinypic.com/2mnhbbs.jpg
Can't help but laugh because of the guy holding a "No Room For Hate" sign while another wears a "Fuck The Police" shirt while standing on an American flag.

GulDukat
03-12-2016, 09:51 AM
Nomination for crazy person of 2016.
http://crooksandliars.com/2016/03/heil-lady-insists-nazi-salute-trump-rally

http://crooksandliars.com/files/imagecache/node_primary/primary_image/16/03/heil_lady.jpg

GulDukat
03-12-2016, 09:58 AM
Random question, but what is the best book to read on democratic socialism?
Not sure if this is exactly what Sanders is talking about.
http://www.amazon.com/Looking-Forward-Participatory-Economics-Century/dp/0896084051

Bachy
03-12-2016, 10:34 AM
Nomination for crazy person of 2016.
http://crooksandliars.com/2016/03/heil-lady-insists-nazi-salute-trump-rally

http://crooksandliars.com/files/imagecache/node_primary/primary_image/16/03/heil_lady.jpg

https://media4.giphy.com/media/voS5QxHv96wA8/200w.gif

allegro
03-12-2016, 10:37 AM
I dunno what this all means or how it will all turn out, but this is a hell of a lot more fun than the Kerry primary.

Illinois has been voting early for a while btw, I voted earlier this week. So I don't know how much this stuff will affect the primary here.


Nomination for crazy person of 2016.
http://crooksandliars.com/2016/03/heil-lady-insists-nazi-salute-trump-rally

http://crooksandliars.com/files/imagecache/node_primary/primary_image/16/03/heil_lady.jpg

Yeah evidently he has been having people take the "Trump Pledge" and that has morphed into this, which he says he didn't know anything about and would have to address but I think it's way too late for a lot of these wackos who are in for a big surprise.

It clearly said in this thing (http://www.meetup.com/berniesanders/events/229438090/#description-tab) not to be violent, etc. so things just got out of hand.

tony.parente
03-12-2016, 10:49 AM
Protesting ANY candidates rally is stupid as fuck and does the opposite of its intent - solidify the views of the supporters.

Anyways it's raining today in STL and there was a bunch of Bernie folks holding signs walking down a major road over here so that was dope.

orestes
03-12-2016, 10:53 AM
It's pretty easy to be dismissive of protestors when you have nothing at stake to lose.

allegro
03-12-2016, 10:57 AM
The ultimate protest is the vote.

tony.parente
03-12-2016, 11:00 AM
Protesting a political candidate rally does literally nothing. It's not like there's a trump voter that sees people outside screaming racist and thinks to himself "ya know what? They're right, immediately all my political views have changed and I'm now a democrat"

allegro
03-12-2016, 11:01 AM
Protesting a political candidate rally does literally nothing. It's not like there's a trump voter that sees people outside screaming racist and thinks to himself "ya know what? They're right, immediately all my political views have changed and I'm now a democrat"

History has shown that you're right. Protests against Nixon only solidified Nixon's win.

DigitalChaos
03-12-2016, 11:33 AM
Protesting ANY candidates rally is stupid as fuck and does the opposite of its intent - solidify the views of the supporters.


Protesting a political candidate rally does literally nothing. It's not like there's a trump voter that sees people outside screaming racist and thinks to himself "ya know what? They're right, immediately all my political views have changed and I'm now a democrat"

This shit. Like, wtf are you going to even accomplish? If you want to just scream preconceived opinions at each other without any hope of change... we have facebook now.

It's also really easy to instigate violence in the types of situations. I guarantee you could get Bernie or Hillary supporters to react violently too. But of course, everyone wants to use this instance as totally-proof-of-some-preconceived-opinion... which brings us right back to the beginning of my post.

tony.parente
03-12-2016, 12:07 PM
There's a difference between a black lives matter protest and protesting a political rally. That's like me and all my friends going to a lady gaga concert and telling everyone there that her music sucks.

Khrz
03-12-2016, 12:24 PM
Those elections, as seen from Europe :

https://45.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6mpe7i6Wy1rripouo1_500.gif

richardp
03-12-2016, 12:47 PM
Drumpf is doing a rally in the heart of downtown KC today, during the final BIG XII Basketball game which is two blocks away. This was originally scheduled to be held at the downtown airport, so once again, I feel like Drumpf is doing this shit on purpose knowing there'll be TONS of college kids downtown, in an area that is already predominantly liberal.

There's already a huge protest planned for the event, and they all plan on trying to rush the building at 5:30. So KC might be on the news tonight as well.

I work a block and a half from the Rally, so I'm definitely going to join the protest when I get off at 5.

Your Name Here
03-12-2016, 12:51 PM
..................

implanted_microchip
03-12-2016, 01:14 PM
Protesting is also a form of freedom of speech.

Yeah, but at the same time being physically aggressive, throwing shit, shoving and hitting people -- that's not free speech. it's a messy situation and everyone's coming at it with the most black or white attitude and it's over-simplifying an event where there really is no clear division between the valiant heroes and the malevolent villains here. It wasn't any narrative. It was just people. People getting in fights. People disagreeing. People not being able to accept each other. People not being able to deal with others being different. And that's everything that's been going on with Trump. He's a beacon that says "You don't have to tolerate anything you dislike." And so he attracts people sick of being tolerant. And in turn people are intolerant of intolerance. It's just a fucking mess.

I feel like the cliche "Why can't we all just get along" person lately. This election has just been going from wildly funny and amusing to just deeply disheartening and upsetting. I don't feel good about where things are going, at all. And if there's a contested convention, and Trump's not nominated, I'm terrified to see the reaction that'd stir up. But I also don't want to see the reaction him being the nominee will have. In general, it's just, ugh. This is really where we're at as a country. I don't feel good about it at all from any perspective.

Also richardp "Join the protest when I get off at 5" sounds like a lost Doors lyric

allegro
03-12-2016, 01:19 PM
Well, yeah, exactly. The people who are for Trump are being told from all sides, even the GOP, that they are being "stopped," and there is some level of media spin on all this. When Ben Carson backs Trump, obviously there's something else going on.

tony.parente
03-12-2016, 01:24 PM
Protesting is also a form of freedom of speech.
So is having a rally.

implanted_microchip
03-12-2016, 01:41 PM
Well, yeah, exactly. The people who are for Trump are being told from all sides, even the GOP, that they are being "stopped," and there is some level of media spin on all this. When Ben Carson backs Trump, obviously there's something else going on.

I know this kind of shit really just strengthens Trump supporters' resolves. The easiest way to make someone double down on their stance is to attack them for it and call them Nazis and racists. Whether they are or not. Yelling at people for holding up a hand to say they'll vote for the guy in their primary and telling them that makes them a Nazi does not exactly change a lot of minds. It's helping nobody. People are just digging deeper into their trenches.

It's like this Always Sunny quote: "I won't change my mind, 'cause I don't have to. 'Cause I'm an American. I won't change my mind on anything, regardless of the facts that are set out before me. I'm dug in, and I'll never change."

I just feel like people are having a reactionary, knee-jerk attitude about the whole mess and are in turn not accomplishing anything other than encouraging what they're against. The stereotype of Bernie fans and BLM supporters being aggressive, violent and intolerant of others is not being helped by this. At all. And you know and anyone who's read me on this thread knows that I am not, in the slightest, a Trump fan. But good fucking Christ are people doing a good job of making sure more people become them, and making sure those who already are, never change.

Condescending to, insulting and barraging people who support him will not help. The GOP actually trying to, in broad daylight, sabotage the will of their voters is not helping. Rubio's people telling his supporters in Ohio to vote for Kasich? That's just fucking dirty. That's just manipulative. That's just disrespectful to the concept of a democratic election -- the people all vote, and the person they vote the most for wins. And, sometimes, that person is going to be a piece of shit. That's part of the risk. That's on the packaging, it's a label warning everyone seems to fail to read. It's like we're hitting a point where we're only supporting democracy if it suits us, if we like what it leads to.

orestes
03-12-2016, 02:43 PM
I'm sorry, but the only people being aggressive, violent and intolerant at these rallies are Trump's supporters. Black protestors and anyone who isn't a fucking WASP have been verbally and physically assaulted, simply for being present where they "don't belong", in the eyes of Trump supporters.

tony.parente
03-12-2016, 03:09 PM
I'm sorry, but the only people being aggressive, violent and intolerant at these rallies are Trump's supporters. Black protestors and anyone who isn't a fucking WASP have been verbally and physically assaulted, simply for being present where they "don't belong", in the eyes of Trump supporters.
Which is why protesting there is a waste of everyone's time.

implanted_microchip
03-12-2016, 03:14 PM
I'm sorry, but the only people being aggressive, violent and intolerant at these rallies are Trump's supporters. Black protestors and anyone who isn't a fucking WASP have been verbally and physically assaulted, simply for being present where they "don't belong", in the eyes of Trump supporters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd6pVAb_tHs

Here's a ton of footage, be the judge of your own statement there. You can see plenty of people that are just trying to walk out and getting slapped, confronted and yelled at. Everyone's acting like they have the emotional spectrum of a six year old. Nobody looks good in this, regardless of why they're there.

orestes
03-12-2016, 03:26 PM
Lol, white guilt.

Meanwhile: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc-news/watch/chicago-anti-trump-protester-safety-was-first-concern-643012675800

implanted_microchip
03-12-2016, 03:42 PM
Lol, white guilt.

I don't get why you said that and I don't get why you can't just actually have a conversation instead of saying something like that to me

orestes
03-12-2016, 03:52 PM
The comment was in response to the video, not you.

edit: I just remembered that members of the press have been attacked at Trump rallies, so this simply isn't a case of "stupid" protestors being were they aren't wanted.

GulDukat
03-12-2016, 03:54 PM
Good article on what could happen at the Rebublican convention this summer.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/republican-contention-chaos-213725?cmpid=sf#ixzz42hjGGln5

orestes
03-12-2016, 08:15 PM
Nomination for crazy person of 2016.
http://crooksandliars.com/2016/03/heil-lady-insists-nazi-salute-trump-rally

http://crooksandliars.com/files/imagecache/node_primary/primary_image/16/03/heil_lady.jpg

The story behind the photo. (https://www.facebook.com/michael.j.garza.7/posts/10153457438236305)

edit: Jesus fucking christ. (https://twitter.com/sakirkhader/status/708821173317050368)

DigitalChaos
03-12-2016, 09:24 PM
Yelling at people for holding up a hand to say they'll vote for the guy in their primary and telling them that makes them a Nazi does not exactly change a lot of minds. It's helping nobody. People are just digging deeper into their trenches.

Not to mention it makes people look like fucking idiots. Trying to turn the hand raising into "they are nazis" is Benghazi level desperation and repetitive grasping. And now they have found 1 racist supporter who actually did that and they are grinding over and over on it as if it will somehow inflate to the entire supporter base if they say it enough (you know, like Benghazi)

And what the fuck is with the "drumpf" or whatever the fuck people are calling him? Like what the fuck is the story on that? This seems like another desperate attempt. Barrack HUSSEIN Obama yall!


If the candidate is as bad as you say, YOU DONT NEED TO MAKE SHIT UP. And you don't have to keep finding trivial shit to get outraged over. Doing this will only create cover for the candidate when legitimate problems start showing. If there was a legitimate scandal found to exist in Benghazi right now, not a goddamned person would listen to republicans about it after their stupid show of desperate grasping.

Exocet
03-12-2016, 09:25 PM
The comment was in response to the video, not you.

edit: I just remembered that members of the press have been attacked at Trump rallies, so this simply isn't a case of "stupid" protestors being were they aren't wanted.

Its the other side of the coin Orestes...i know you dont like it...but there are many many people who relate to Donald Trump...imagine a load of Right Wingers disrupting a Bernie Sanders show.
There would be outrage among the left.
There needs to be free speech. You cant just shut down people communist style who you dont agree with.
Again i despise Donald Trump but i hate Left wing Bigotism as much as Right Wing bigotism.
Its a democracy

DigitalChaos
03-12-2016, 09:37 PM
^ I agree with the general message there, but protest is speech.

It's the entire idea of protesting the supporters of a candidate that is just stupid as fuck. The Westboro Baptist Church protesting the funerals of gay people might actually have more merit than protesters of candidate supporters. What are you even protesting? What is the goal of protesting?! And you are ridiculous to think it won't cause drama. People are wanting the drama and acting surprised when it comes. And then we have the people pointing out that drama happened and acting like that is attached to the candidate themselves. So much stupidity.

orestes
03-12-2016, 09:46 PM
What are you even talking about? I'm talking about actual instances where Trump supporters have been violent towards anyone they perceive as the enemy, whether they be black, muslim or simple a member of the press. You can speak of hypothetical situations all you like but the truth is you will never see right wingers disrupt a Sanders or Clinton rally because they have no interest in crossing the aisle to the other side of the political spectrum because to do that would mean showing respect. But you will never see this in the current political climate when you have Trump supporters call black people "animals" or pointing in the direction of where they can find the nearest crack den. Tonight, Trump said that all protestors should be arrested and sent to prison so who's really trying censure free speech? It's certainly not activists.

Exocet
03-12-2016, 10:03 PM
What are you even talking about? I'm talking about actual instances where Trump supporters have been violent towards anyone they perceive as the enemy, whether they be black, muslim or simple a member of the press. You can speak of hypothetical situations all you like but the truth is you will never see right wingers disrupt a Sanders or Clinton rally because they have no interest in crossing the aisle to the other side of the political spectrum because to do that would mean showing respect. But you will never see this in the current political climate when you have Trump supporters call black people "animals" or pointing in the direction of where they can find the nearest crack den. Tonight, Trump said that all protestors should be arrested and sent to prison so who's really trying censure free speech? It's certainly not activists.

No interest.....i think its showing respect.....allowing another voice to be heard. Even if they dont agree with it...

allegro
03-12-2016, 10:52 PM
The story behind the photo. (https://www.facebook.com/michael.j.garza.7/posts/10153457438236305)

Here's her real story (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-birgitt-peterson-trump-rally-met-0313-20160312-story.html).

DigitalChaos
03-12-2016, 10:52 PM
One more fun thing about a Trump presidency is that Dems will finally have to come to terms with what they allowed:
Imagine Obama's national security policies in Trump's hands (http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/05/donald-trump-national-security-obama)

But they won't be talking about that yet... that's for later. For now, this gets ignored.

tony.parente
03-12-2016, 11:04 PM
Tonight, Trump said that all protestors should be arrested and sent to prison.
Holy shit did you also hear trump talking about the protesters saying something to the effect of "they listen to music I don't like very much".

LOL WHAT

richardp
03-13-2016, 01:25 AM
And what the fuck is with the "drumpf" or whatever the fuck people are calling him? Like what the fuck is the story on that? This seems like another desperate attempt. Barrack HUSSEIN Obama yall!

Google "Drumpf". Inform yourself before you complain about it.

sick among the pure
03-13-2016, 01:56 AM
Here's her real story (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-birgitt-peterson-trump-rally-met-0313-20160312-story.html).

According to her. According to multiple people who came into contact with her, including the photographer, her story is just that. A story.


A protester who was photographed with Peterson, Michael Joseph Garza, told the Tribune on Saturday he did not believe Peterson was responding to anyone else when she raised her arm in the salute. "I went up to her and said, 'Ma'am, please leave, we have understood you, we have made a (path),'" Garza recalled. "She said, 'Go? Back in my day, this is what we did,' basically, and then she hailed Hitler."
Jason Wambsgans, the Tribune photographer who took the picture, said he had more than a dozen photos of Peterson giving the Nazi salute but did not see any protesters doing the gesture

I'm not saying Trump is Hitler. I'm not saying everyone who supports him are Nazis. But honestly, when it's one person's (after the fact) words against 3 people and dozens of photos...

Mantra
03-13-2016, 03:12 AM
With all due respect, I personally find the "can't we all just get along" perspective a little hard to swallow in this particular situation. I feel like that implies that supporting Trump is an acceptable position, and I suppose this won't seem very open-minded of me, but I don't feel that it is. When people say, "Bernie supporters wouldn't want Trump supporters crashing their rally," they're creating a false equivalency, as if supporting Trump and supporting Bernie are both equally reasonable positions. I feel like the only way you can believe that is by viewing the world through pure moral relativism, where everything is all wishy-washy and there's no such thing as "right" or "wrong" and every single perspective is just as valid as the next. I personally don't think that way. I think there are things which are objectively, morally wrong, and Trump has a very long of list (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/3669-2016-Presidential-Election?p=293103#post293103) of positions that fall under that category.

Now I don't think being a Trump supporter means you've given up the right to personal safety, which is why I wouldn't advocate people getting into shoving matches with their supporters. But it's a little hard for me to adopt some pluralistic "live and let live" attitude on Trump. This isn't exactly some innocuous disagreement, like people arguing over music or food or whatever. Trump's campaign may be a neverending circus show of laughable bullshit, but his actual positions on certain issues are serious shit. If they actually came to pass, they would have life and death consequences for some people.

So yeah, I think it's a great thing to see people protesting him.

allegro
03-13-2016, 05:08 AM
According to her. According to multiple people who came into contact with her, including the photographer, her story is just that. A story.

I'm not saying Trump is Hitler. I'm not saying everyone who supports him are Nazis. But honestly, when it's one person's (after the fact) words against 3 people and dozens of photos...
I'm not doubting the photographer's version. But the old lady from Germany didn't really understand the whole situation, and saw it from a different (and somewhat confused) perspective but it's still a valid perpective to her when she said people were calling them Nazis. I didn't understand her, either, but she's old and I'm sure when she went there she didn't expect to be roughed up so she was probably mentally reacting in a weird way and trying to explain what a Nazi really is but that is stupid. I'm glad so many people tried to help those old people, they really could have gotten hurt.

ldopa
03-13-2016, 05:30 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh3TXsx8B40

pretty much my thoughts on this dog and pony show. pick flick.

allegro
03-13-2016, 05:32 AM
Here's a pretty good article about what happened in Chicago: http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/how-bernie-sanders-supporters-shut-down-donald-trump-rally-chicago

orestes
03-13-2016, 10:11 AM
I find it annoying that people, in this instance, the press, lump all protestors as pro-Bernie. Were all the protestors who shut down the Chicago rally Bernie supporters? Probably not. Can't you just be anti-asshole or anti-racist? The activists who shut down Trump's rally also used protest as a tactic to get a Gary McCarthy fired and win reparations for CPD torture victims. Misrepresenting them as a random mob or Bernie operatives is wrong.

orestes
03-13-2016, 10:14 AM
Holy shit did you also hear trump talking about the protesters saying something to the effect of "they listen to music I don't like very much".

LOL WHAT

He also said they were ISIS sympathizer and that he would financially ruin the lives of all protestors by pressing charges.

Try harder.

allegro
03-13-2016, 10:40 AM
I find it annoying that people, in this instance, the press, lump all protestors as pro-Bernie. Were all the protestors who shut down the Chicago rally Bernie supporters? Probably not. Can't you just be anti-asshole or anti-racist? The activists who shut down Trump's rally also used protest as a tactic to get a Gary McCarthy fired and win reparations for CPD torture victims. Misrepresenting them as a random mob or Bernie operatives is wrong.

Reparation for torture victims has been in the works for a long time, http://www.progressillinois.com/posts/content/2014/12/12/calls-grow-louder-reparations-chicago-police-torture-survivors

One of the main organizers of the Chicago rally is a black activist AND a Bernie supporter (http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/whos-behind-those-rahm-failed-us-t-shirts/), and the crowd was chanting "Bernie." Does that mean ALL of them were Bernie supporters? No, this was on Facebook and had over a million hits; anybody could show up.

Rubio portraying Chicago as being full of professional activists isn't right, either; until last November, there were hardly ANY protests here, save for a few small anti-violence protests on the South side. Laquan McDonald was the breaking point.

tony.parente
03-13-2016, 10:47 AM
He also said they were ISIS sympathizer and that he would financially ruin the lives of all protestors by pressing charges.

Try harder.
Me try harder? I was shocked that be basically said "black peoples are annoying"

orestes
03-13-2016, 10:54 AM
Okay, that's not how it came across to me. Sometimes things get lost in translation. :)

tony.parente
03-13-2016, 11:08 AM
Okay, that's not how it came across to me. Sometimes things get lost in translation. :)

No biggie, you were talking to ME lol

Deepvoid
03-13-2016, 11:54 AM
I thought Trump said he'd punch a protester if he had to.
Guess the Secret Service had other plans.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06d4t1704N8

allegro
03-13-2016, 12:03 PM
Here's more footage and info: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/03/12/attempted_attack_on_donald_trump_was_worse_than_it _looked.html

Frozen Beach
03-13-2016, 12:06 PM
I find it annoying that people, in this instance, the press, lump all protestors as pro-Bernie. Were all the protestors who shut down the Chicago rally Bernie supporters? Probably not. Can't you just be anti-asshole or anti-racist? The activists who shut down Trump's rally also used protest as a tactic to get a Gary McCarthy fired and win reparations for CPD torture victims. Misrepresenting them as a random mob or Bernie operatives is wrong.
Well, there is this tweet which I think the media interpreted as People For Bernie claiming to have organized it.
http://i66.tinypic.com/23kzozl.png

richardp
03-13-2016, 12:08 PM
Drumpf fucking told the story of this THREE TIMES IN A ROW last night at his rally here in KC. But not like, "I told this story once but am going to reiterate the main points", but literally starting up the same story from the very beginning. THREE TIMES.

Like he's so fucking proud that people are now trying to physically harm him.

EDIT----

Also not to throw my fellow Bernie supporters under the bus, but practically EVERY protestor at the Drumpf rally yesterday were Bernie fans. Never saw one single Hilary fan. KC is a VERY strong Bernie town. But the flip side to that coin, despite what the media says, our protest was actually very peaceful. No one was trying to fight or harm anyone. In fact the only ones doing harm were the KCPD. While Drumpf supporters on the other side other side of the street screamed "FUCKING N****RS" and other racial slurs, the cops could be seen occasionally chuckling, but wouldn't acknowledge us. Then of course what is being shown all over the news, them spraying protestors with Mace FOR NO REASON other then the sidewalk getting full and people spilling out on the side of the street. Then the cops literally jut started going down the line macing people who were quietly standing on the sidewalk not even saying anything.

allegro
03-13-2016, 12:17 PM
Bill Clinton weighs in on Chicago protest:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h451vl8pKys&feature=youtu.be&t=111

Also, Chicago Sun-Times columnist Mark Brown weighed in today with an opinion piece regarding the Chicago Trump protest (http://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists/brown-protesters-cant-blame-trump-crowd-for-this-ugliness/).


You can’t shut up Trump by shouting him down. Maybe for an hour. But his chance to speak is never further away than the next microphone.

As this campaign has shown, hating on Trump’s hate only makes him stronger and only makes his supporters more resolute.

“This makes me want to vote for him more,” said 19-year-old Dalton Thompson, a Southern Illinois University student from Geneva.

“We’re not backing down. We want to make America great again,” said his friend, A.J. Siddiqui, a 21-year-old Muslim from St. Charles.

Trump will take those sentiments and magnify them a million-fold to his national audience, which will only feed off him being mistreated in Barack Obama’s hometown while Rahm Emanuel’s police stood watch.

Trump’s rise has reminded me of some long-ago Star Trek episode where the beast gained strength through the negative energy expended by those trying to kill it.

There was a lot of negative energy being expended inside and outside the UIC Pavilion.

To be clear, I’m glad people came out to protest Trump. I was hoping for it.

But as I watched an elderly man with a walker trying in vain to return to his car because idiots were running wild through the parking garage where many of Trump’s fans parked their cars, I was ashamed.

“This is what free speech looks like!” shouted a leader of the protesters on his megaphone while the old man asked the police if it was safe yet to get to his car.

I hope this isn’t what free speech looks like.

Look, Donald Trump has no business being president, and I think his supporters are misguided at best.

But they weren’t the ugly ones on this night.

And the old man with the walker was most likely there because Trump represents his level of disenfranchisement: fear of loss of Social Security and Medicare (which Trump has vowed to keep and bolster plus negotiate Medicare prescription costs with drug companies).

Frozen Beach
03-13-2016, 12:41 PM
Like he's so fucking proud that people are now trying to physically harm him.

considering the amount of death threats he gets via social media, I'm not surprised he enjoys it. You practically have to when you're hated this much. Also, him being under the threat of physical harm just makes him look like a victim to his supporters and secret supporters (who I fear the most when it comes to the election), so their loyalty is stronger. I think his campaign would have been dead months ago if people would have just ignored him. Attention feeds his ego and his fan base.
http://i68.tinypic.com/9aw9zo.png

allegro
03-13-2016, 12:59 PM
It appears obvious that Trump's organizers rented the UIC Pavilion specifically because it would stir up trouble. UIC is chock full of lefty students and the school openly accepts undocumented students. When UIC students heard that Trump's people had rented the UIC Pavilion, they started a petition on MoveOn.Org to cancel the event (http://chicagoist.com/2016/03/07/donald_trump_is_slated_to.php). Trump's people could have just as easily rented the Allstate Arena in suburban Rosemont, or something similar. But that would not have caused this much trouble.

Wolfkiller
03-13-2016, 01:29 PM
I'm on team protesters. Normally I think trying to shut down differing opinions is mostly childish ("feminists" interrupting or trying to ban speakers that don't accept their dogma, for example.) Trump has moved past mere disagreement into dangerous territory. His comments about various groups and dissenters coupled with his inciting his followers to violence makes him a serious issue. I have no problem with him or anyone that is pro torture/targeting civilians being shut down.

EDIT: I'm not in favor of blocking traffic or any other extreme measures from the protesters.

Mantra
03-13-2016, 03:48 PM
I think part of the Chicago craziness was just a product of modern/internet activism. Social media has had this crowd sourcing effect on activism where it's almost like inviting everyone out to a big party. People make an event on facebook, and yeah they write a statement discouraging violence, but after that they mostly just let the chips fall where they may. That approach isn't a huge problem when you're talking about low-risk demonstrations, but protesting a Trump rally is pretty much guaranteed to be tense, confrontational, and chaotic. When you send a crowd of amped up, inexperienced people into the snake pit, things easily get out of hand.

There's a reason we have training sessions for organizers and activists. It's important for the safety and well-being of the protesters and the general public, and also for strategic/political reasons. When it's done right, activist training is super detailed, where they go into all these little things that people wouldn't even think about, like body posture, crowd distribution, etc, and they teach everyone all the legal shit, and they may even do practice runs, teaching people how to deescalate a situation. People forget how integral mass training was to the civil rights movement. If shit goes bad, it helps a lot if people are trained and prepared, but they're also more likely to know how to avoid that shit entirely.

After Arab Spring, everyone got all excited about how social media was injecting new life into activism, and I understand that, because it feels democratizing. Where previously protesting was handled by a tiny group of die-hards, now it's easy to stir up a huge turnout, and that feels refreshing. But I also worry that it's diminishing the level of seriousness with which people approach this stuff. I totally support the idea of protesting Trump rallies, but people would be wise to get a bit more organized next time around. "Organizing" isn't just placing bodies in the physical space of a protest. You gotta be educating people too.

DigitalChaos
03-13-2016, 06:31 PM
Google "Drumpf". Inform yourself before you complain about it.

Just did and holy fuck you guys are idiots. My comparison to republicans emphasizing Obama's middle name couldn't have been a better choice.

http://www.snopes.com/donald-drumpf/

Swykk
03-13-2016, 06:53 PM
It's not nearly the same. Everything about Trump is bullshit. Even his fucking name. That's the point. Drumpf is a shit show that is shining a bright light on the worst lowest common denominator assholes in this country.

Morons were using Obama's middle name in a shitty attempt to tie him in with Middle East/terrorism. It wasn't true.

Huge difference.

DigitalChaos
03-13-2016, 07:02 PM
It's not nearly the same. Everything about Trump is bullshit. Even his fucking name. That's the point. Drumpf is a shit show that is shining a bright light on the worst lowest common denominator assholes in this country.

Morons were using Obama's middle name in a shitty attempt to tie him in with Middle East/terrorism. It wasn't true.

Huge difference.
congrats, you sound exactly like my conservative obama-hating relatives. Every single one of those justifications is exactly what they used.

Swykk
03-13-2016, 07:13 PM
Obama has made plenty of bad decisions and mistakes.

Drumpf represents everything that is wrong with America.

I'm not sure where you'd get "conservative" from anything I've posted but okay, sure, make that error.

And nothing would be justified if you said all those things I said about Drumpf and his supporters about Obama.

Wolfkiller
03-13-2016, 07:18 PM
The Drumpf thing was brought up on the show because Trump apparently was calling out someone else (Jon Stewart?) for not using their real, more Jewish sounding last name. More substance than the Obama middle name thing, but probably not a useful attack tactic. I'm not sure what a useful attack tactic would be at this point when bringing up his disgusting policy opinions only gets more cheers and the mainstream media is talking about his naughty use of bad words instead of hammering him on his hypocrisy and other things that actually matter.

Mantra
03-13-2016, 07:20 PM
Just did and holy fuck you guys are idiots. My comparison to republicans emphasizing Obama's middle name couldn't have been a better choice.

http://www.snopes.com/donald-drumpf/

To be fair, part of the reason Jon Oliver brought it up in first place is because Trump himself once attacked Jon Stewart for a similar reason when he tweeted "If Jon Stewart is so above it all & legit, why did he change his name from Johnathan Leibovitz? He should be proud of his heritage!" He made other tweets that were just as petty, like "I promise you that I'm much smarter than Jonathan Leibowitz - I mean Jon Stewart @TheDailyShow. Who, by the way, is totally overrated." Trump always seems to get fixated on the weirdest things when he's got an axe to grind with someone. So within that particular context, I think it sort of worked just as a funny way of pointing out the guy's strange hypocrisy.

However, it's kinda dumb how it's become this meme thing, because not everybody even understands it and it just seems a little silly to go around calling him that without the context of Trump's tweets.

EDIT: wolfkiller beat me to it

Frozen Beach
03-13-2016, 07:23 PM
While I wouldn't call people idiots for calling Trump "Drumpf", I do think it's stupid, juvenile and wrong. People shouldn't stoop to Trump's level.

sick among the pure
03-13-2016, 07:24 PM
Just did and holy fuck you guys are idiots. My comparison to republicans emphasizing Obama's middle name couldn't have been a better choice.

http://www.snopes.com/donald-drumpf/

The Drumpf thing is a culmination of a few things.

It's a jab at how the idea of being proud of your heritage but his family changing their last name (which I know wasn't Donald's idea or in any way his "fault", most immigrants have to change their name anyhow).
Which leads to the mocking of the I'm the real America I'm a real American I'm not an evil immigrant.
It's for people who are sick of seeing Trump this Trump that all over the internet, in a way blocking out his name while mocking the idea of his namesake (his "brand" is his last name, plastered on everything from hotels to his private jet).
Mostly it's a joke.

The Hussein emphasizers used his middle name to invoke fear, to say "hey, those people who attacked the World Trade Center had names JUST LIKE THIS GUY."

DigitalChaos
03-13-2016, 07:25 PM
I'm not sure where you'd get "conservative" from anything I've posted but okay, sure, make that error.

and here is where you argue like all the conservatives during the obama years.

it doesn't matter if you do it with non-conservative intent. you are still using empty, ridiculous, justifications to call someone a name. There parallels in the justifications are unmistakable to anyone who is capable of stepping outside. You can argue all the small differences you want.

DigitalChaos
03-13-2016, 07:28 PM
@Wolfkiller (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=675), @Mantra (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=925), sick among the pure - i get WHY people are doing it. it's still ridiculous. Especially the people using it in this thread completely out of context as a full on replacement for his name.

DigitalChaos
03-13-2016, 07:32 PM
and "look up drumpf" was a rebuttal to my post here: http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/3669-2016-Presidential-Election/page53?p=293875#post293875
pretty shitty rebuttal

Mantra
03-13-2016, 07:43 PM
Of course it's ridiculous, but I also think you're overstating things a bit if you think it's exactly the same as the Hussein thing, because Drumpf, despite being childish and petty, isn't trying to tap into xenophobia and fear-mongering towards a marginalized culture. Which is actually a pretty meaningful difference.

allegro
03-13-2016, 07:51 PM
This Chicago Tribune columnist has an interesting take on the Drumpf / Oliver thing. (http://www.chicagotribune.com/entertainment/theater/ct-jones-trump-ae-0313-20160311-column.html).

sick among the pure
03-13-2016, 10:19 PM
@Wolfkiller (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=675), @Mantra (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=925), @sick among the pure (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=266) - i get WHY people are doing it. it's still ridiculous. Especially the people using it in this thread completely out of context as a full on replacement for his name.

They're likely using the Drumpf plugin, I know I am (because I need the giggle when I read about what he's said or done next).
You can think it's ridiculous, as long as you understand why people are doing it (and that it's apples vs oranges when compared to Obama's middle name being emphasized). Your avatar is still ridiculous, but I understand why people would find humor in it :p

thevoid99
03-14-2016, 12:49 AM
And Fascist Asshole just got a new endorsement from Pete Rose: http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2016/03/13/pete-rose-gives-his-full-support-to-donald-trump-as-only-can.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fsports+%28Internal+-+Sports+-+Mixed%29

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/3-23-2015/qroOOx.gif

richardp
03-14-2016, 01:07 AM
and "look up drumpf" was a rebuttal to my post here: http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/3669-2016-Presidential-Election/page53?p=293875#post293875
pretty shitty rebuttal

Oh for fucks sake, it wasn't a "rebuttle", I was telling you to use google before you say start talking shit on something.

But truthfully speaking, the real origin of Drumpf and the usage of it is actually mostly just to annoy the living fuck out of YOU specifically.

https://media.giphy.com/media/5iJE9RQI3FkME/giphy.gif

Jinsai
03-14-2016, 03:27 AM
JESUS DigitalChaos, for a troll you seem to understand very little about trolling.

Do you think the constant harping about Trump's tiny fingers has merit either? He's returning playground bully insults to an adult wielding them, and he's using a funny hijacking of social media to do it.

DigitalChaos
03-14-2016, 12:29 PM
Again. I understand it. I'm just surprised (not really) to see people stoop to playground bully tactics... And, more importantly, dilute and distract from legitimate criticism of a supposedly horrible candidate.

You are helping the horrible candidate. It's the same as when republicans petty whining created a giant raft for democrats to float their cognitive dissonance on a while Obama did horrible shit.

DigitalChaos
03-14-2016, 12:32 PM
In short: this is the election you deserve. I'm grabbing my popcorn.

Jinsai
03-14-2016, 01:06 PM
Again. I understand it. I'm just surprised (not really) to see people stoop to playground bully tactics... And, more importantly, dilute and distract from legitimate criticism of a supposedly horrible candidate.

You are helping the horrible candidate. It's the same as when republicans petty whining created a giant raft for democrats to float their cognitive dissonance on a while Obama did horrible shit.

No, it's the hope that the hashtag #MakeDonaldDrumpfAgain will trend (which it did) and that it would then result in more people seeing THE REST OF THE SEGMENT.

allegro
03-14-2016, 01:56 PM
No, it's the hope that the hashtag #MakeDonaldDrumpfAgain will trend (which it did) and that it would then result in more people seeing THE REST OF THE SEGMENT.
That doesn't work. The people who support him see that and don't care.

Just like Bill Clinton was elected even with Whitewater and even with Gennifer Flowers.

Just like Mitt Romney got the GOP nomination even with Bain Capital and Rafalca.

Just like George W Bush was re-elected after 4 years of disaster in Iraq and Afghanistan, no WMDs, etc.

The only benefit of trending is the profits made on the sites hit.

This is only the primary. Tell me how warm and fuzzy you all feel when Jesus H Cruz is the nominee and he wants to take us back to the 1700s, and he's facing Hillary and they're playing dirty by filing criminal charges against her.

I'll get my popcorn. Even Sanders facing Jesus H Cruz and his army of crazy zealots calling Dems a bunch of Godless baby-killing socialist cretins should make this TV miniseries fun.

Swykk
03-14-2016, 02:17 PM
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/trump-militia-forms-to-forcefully-protect-rally-goers-against-far-left-agitators/

It's just as human dumpster fire Matt Forney wished.

DigitalChaos
03-14-2016, 02:18 PM
We've learned this so many times but you throw in some emotion and everyone forgets and loses their minds. It's nothing more than a circlejerk for those already onboard while further separating those who aren't or are undecided. It's not like there was one goddamned thing in that John Oliver segment that would convince a Trump voter not to vote for him. "oh, so a 10min segment for liberals to justify why they want to make fun of Trump's ancestral name... k... imma go call Sanders a Socialist now"

I'm undecided on which candidate will produce maximum schadenfreude when looking at their opponents, but it's seriously starting to feel like Trump might be the winner on that one.

Jinsai
03-14-2016, 02:22 PM
That doesn't work. The people who support him...

The John Oliver decimation should have extended beyond Trump's supporters, and I'd like to think it did. More people need to know what a monumental douchetruck Trump is, and calling him "Drumpf" is just a way of saying it. It's a gesture of futility though, yes, because there's nothing you can say or do that will actually matter to the people who want to vote for him.

But to say that it's the same as Whitewater? The issue with Trump isn't a particular scandal or set of scandals. It's that he's a despicable sack of shit in every conceivable way, with policy suggestions that make me want to become a Doomsday prepper.



I'll get my popcorn. Even Sanders facing Jesus H Cruz and his army of crazy zealots calling Dems a bunch of Godless baby-killing socialist cretins should make this TV miniseries fun.

Well, your idea of "fun" differs from mine. I honestly cannot believe that Trump and Cruz are the front-runners. I think this is a rebranding effort. After they lose this election so spectacularly, there's going to be a whole new "autopsy," and hopefully next time they will have options that don't sound like they came straight of satirical fiction.

allegro
03-14-2016, 02:22 PM
See also this:

5 Reasons Why Ted Cruz Becoming President Would Be Bad For Women (http://bust.com/general/13923-5-reasons-why-ted-cruz-becoming-president-would-be-bad-for-women.html):


Obamacare and Birth Control:

He started and continued the government shutdown back in Oct 2013, all because of his beef with Obamacare (let it go dude), and delivered no viable plan for ending it, thus costing thousands of government employees to take a forced leave of absence. Now, he is ready to fight again, and seems unwilling to accept that the Affordable Care Act assists women in more ways than one. The major benefit being that employers must cover contraception without a co-pay, something Cruz intends to eradicate.

The DREAMers Act:

Cruz opposed the DREAMers Act and was against Obama allowing children of illegal immigrants to become legal U.S citizens. Oh yes, and he wanted to build that huge wall on our border with Mexico, too.

Violence Against Women Act:

Good ol' Cruz voted "no" to reauthorize the Violence Against Women Act which would allow investigations and prosecutions into these crimes that are so often swept under the rug, never to be fully addressed. Unfortunately, his hard "no" comes from the added expansion to protect victims for gay and Native American women.

Marriage Equality:

Unsurprisingly, Cruz doesn't support gay marriage or marriage equality because he believes in supporting the definition of "traditional marriage". Makes us wonder what his views on traditional divorce are?

Anti-Abortion:

And of course, Cruz opposes women's reproductive rights when it comes to abortion. Calling the anniversary of Roe v. Wade decision a "dark anniversary" Cruz has continuously supported bans on any and all taxpayer funding of abortion and bans of partial birth abortion.


See also this (http://thinkprogress.org/immigration/2015/12/02/3727520/cruz-border-wall-trump/):

Appearing Tuesday on right-wing radio host Jeff Kuhner’s program, Cruz fielded questions on Trump’s immigration ideas. Would Cruz build a wall, and bring Trump into his administration to build it? “Absolutely yes, on both fronts,” Cruz said, before going on to list the specific provisions of his own plan for massive investments in border security and restricting immigrants’ movements.

“I drafted that plan working in close consultation with Senator Jeff Sessions [R-AL] and with Congressman Steve King [R-IA], two of the strongest advocates and warriors for securing the border. The plan lays out we will build a wall that works, we will secure the border, we will triple the Border Patrol, we will increase four-fold the fixed-wing and rotary-wing aircraft, we’ll put in place a strong biometric exit-entry system on visas, we’ll put in place strong e-verify,” Cruz said. “We know how to solve this problem, and we will end sanctuary cities, we will end welfare for people here illegally, we will end catch-and-release, and we will deport criminal illegal aliens.”

allegro
03-14-2016, 02:29 PM
It's that he's a despicable sack of shit in every conceivable way.
So was Ronald Reagan. He just had better PR people. When Reagan won, I wanted to shoot myself. But then I figured, eh, 4 years. But then the stupid fucker won AGAIN.

Trump actually has some good policy suggestions; elimination of estate tax is actually a good idea, I fucking hate estate taxes. Also, lowering corporate taxes and removing ALL CORPORATE LOOPHOLES INCLUDING HIDING INVESTMENTS IN THE CAYMAN ISLANDS is a great idea that even a lot of the Democrats (and Obama) want. Also, getting rid of the fucking AMT is a great idea. Also, the government negotiating for lower Medicare prescription drugs prices (something it has never done) is a good idea. Also, since the SCOTUS has already ruled that we can't just "get rid of" the Affordable Care Act but that it must be replaced with something similar or better because people have already been relying on it for several years and it would cause undue hardship if it was removed completely, his idea of replacing it with a program that would be based on removing invisible state lines that currently exist and forcing insurance companies to submit competitive bids forces the prices of insurance down instead of letting the insurance companies do nothing but profit and forcing small businesses to choose between high deductibles or hiring more employees is an interesting concept that has to be explored. The current ACA was written by insurance companies and drug companies for their own benefit, not totally ours. We need to make it for us, and not for their profit.

Re Social Security, he says this:

"The solution to the Great Social Security crisis couldn’t be more obvious: Allow every American to dedicate some portion of their payroll taxes to a personal Social Security account that they could own and invest in stocks and bonds. Federal guidelines would make sure that your money is diversified, that it is invested in sound mutual funds or bond funds, and not in emu ranches. The national savings rate would soar and billions of dollars would be cycled from savings, to productive assets, to retirement money. And unlike the previous system, the assets in this retirement account could be left to one’s heirs, used to start a business, or anything else one desires."

He also says this:

"I would impose a one-time, 14.25% tax on individuals and trusts with a net worth over $10 million. That would raise $5.7 trillion in new revenue, which we would use to pay off the entire national debt. We would save $200 billion in interest payments, which would allow us to cut taxes on middle-class working families by $100 billion a year or $1 trillion over ten years. We could use the rest of the savings--$100 billion-to bolster the Social Security Trust Fund. By 2030, we [will have] put $3 trillion into the trust Fund, which would make it solvent into the next century.
In addition to shoring up Social Security for the long term, I say it’s high time to separate Social Security from the general treasury. It is time to lock-box it and throw away the key.
The rich will scream. Only the top 1% of people-those with a net worth of $10 million or more-would be affected by my plan. The other 99% would get deep reductions in their federal income taxes."

I'm not saying I like all of his ideas, but I don't like all of any of the candidates' ideas.

DigitalChaos
03-14-2016, 02:30 PM
policy suggestions that make me want to become a Doomsday prepper.


too late. you gave away your gun rights! :P

luckily some of us hid them away for safe keeping in a corner of the constitution even you support :D

Mantra
03-14-2016, 03:13 PM
At this point, there aren't any short term strategies that will persuade Trump voters to get off the train. People talk a lot about trying to change their minds, but that ship has pretty much already sailed. I think with the Democrats, there are people still fluctuating between Sanders and Clinton, and so their primary still feels like it has the possibility of maybe evolving a bit more. But unless something truly earth shattering happens, I think the Republican primary is mostly set, especially in terms of the pro-Trump Vs. anti-Trump divide, and now it's just a matter of watching things unfold. Pretty much everyone's in their camp, they're dug in, and they ain't budging. Whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen.

allegro
03-14-2016, 03:37 PM
I think with the Democrats, there are people still fluctuating between Sanders and Clinton
Honestly, I think most people pretty much already have their minds set between these two, also.

My mind was pretty much made up a while ago, and it's not based on some "wow, this sure feels great to be voting, I can't wait!" but based on SCOTUS judges, ultimately. I think a lot of people don't like any of these candidates and wish we could start all over.

DigitalChaos
03-14-2016, 04:15 PM
We all know about the Bush & Clinton dynasties... how about a Trump dynasty too?

Ivanka is totally gearing up for it.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/13189989/1/meet-the-trump-clan-americas-next-presidential-dynasty.html
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2016/03/ivanka_trump_makes_donald_even_scarier.html


You guys ready? 4-8 years of Trump #1 and then another 4-8 of another Trump?

Mantra
03-14-2016, 04:25 PM
Honestly, I think most people pretty much already have their minds set between these two, also.

Yeah, I'm sure you're right. That said, I still encounter people who haven't decided. The day before our caucus I had lunch with a teacher who still wasn't sure between Hillary or Bernie. I don't know how many people there are like her, but probably not enough to have a big impact. At this point, the Dem primary is more of a turnout game. But for Trump, I suspect there's basically nobody who's undecided, unless they just woke up from a twenty year coma. Whatever small percentage of people there are who haven't made up their mind between Rubio and Cruz, or between Clinton or Sanders, there's gotta be even less who are on the fence about Trump. He's too polarizing.

Really, most people's vote is determined long before the candidates are even announced. You choose based on who you already are.

aggroculture
03-14-2016, 11:04 PM
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/sanders-sends-vegan-thugs-to-attack-peace-loving-nazis

Sallos
03-15-2016, 09:29 AM
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7abkti7UphSopcl2/giphy.gif

allegro
03-15-2016, 10:12 AM
1990 Playboy interview with Trump. (https://thecorporateculture.com/2015/playboy-interviewed-donald-trump-25-years-ago/) Really interesting.

orestes
03-15-2016, 01:06 PM
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/35204-no-welcome-mat-for-fascism-stop-whining-about-trump-s-right-to-free-speech

implanted_microchip
03-15-2016, 01:17 PM
Pretty sure we'll see Rubio lose FL and suspend his campaign tonight or in the coming days. Anyone expecting differently?

Mantra
03-15-2016, 03:36 PM
Yeah, Rubio's toast.

In other Florida election news, apparently 38% of people think Ted Cruz might be the Zodiac killer (http://cornellsun.com/2016/03/13/hardin-ted-cruz-is-not-the-zodiac-killer-probably/).


A few weeks ago, the respected Public Policy Polling organization found that 38 percent of voting-age Floridians (one of the most influential states in determining the outcome of the presidential election) cannot rule out the possibility that Ted Cruz may indeed be the Zodiac Killer —10 percent of voters think he is and another 28 percent remain unsure.

I think the unsure ones crack me up even more than the ones who are fully convinced.

These people are voting today.

Jinsai
03-15-2016, 03:52 PM
Yeah, Rubio's toast.

In other Florida election news, apparently 38% of people think Ted Cruz might be the Zodiac killer (http://cornellsun.com/2016/03/13/hardin-ted-cruz-is-not-the-zodiac-killer-probably/).



I think the unsure ones crack me up even more than the ones who are fully convinced.

These people are voting today.

Imagine how many people will kill themselves after waking up to a reality where this motherfucker is the president

http://static.ijreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/10664315506_b4f0e977da_z.jpg

Even if he IS the Zodiac killer, that will be a mere footnote in the death count

Jinsai
03-15-2016, 04:10 PM
1990 Playboy interview with Trump. (https://thecorporateculture.com/2015/playboy-interviewed-donald-trump-25-years-ago/) Really interesting.

some interesting behind-the-scenes details regarding that interview (http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/12/donald-trump-mark-bowden-playboy-profile)

allegro
03-15-2016, 06:09 PM
some interesting behind-the-scenes details regarding that interview (http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/12/donald-trump-mark-bowden-playboy-profile)

The Playboy interview I linked, above, is from 1990, not the 1997 Playboy interview. In the 1997 interview, he sounds just like Steve Jobs, LOL.


Even if he IS the Zodiac killer, that will be a mere footnote in the death count
Ted was 2 when the Zodiac Killer made his first hit, so we can count Jesus Cruz out as the Zodiac Killer.

Wolfkiller
03-15-2016, 07:14 PM
KKK backs Hillary now (http://http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/12192975/The-KKK-leader-who-says-he-backs-Hillary-Clinton.html?sf22520835=1)


“We want Hillary Clinton to win,” Mr Quigg told The Telegraph. “She is telling everybody one thing, but she has a hidden agenda. She’s telling everybody what they want to hear so she can get elected, because she’s Bill Clinton’s wife, she’s close to the Bushes. [But] once she’s in the presidency, she’s going to come out and her true colours are going to show.

onthewall2983
03-15-2016, 07:49 PM
Ted was 2 when the Zodiac Killer made his first hit, so we can count Jesus Cruz out as the Zodiac Killer.

You're no fun.

allegro
03-15-2016, 08:03 PM
Tonight is going to require more bubbly than I usually consume in one evening. This reminds me of my late friend Jay, RIP, who'd drink box wine and sit in front of the TV all night for every election, all excited. G and I are making a pizza. My nerves are killing me.

Every time Cruz wins a state, a kitten dies.

I am rooting for Kasich to win Ohio, though.

I am also rooting for Clinton to win Illinois.

Bravo to the Cubans, though: only 14% of them voted for Cruz in Florida. AND HE'S HALF CUBAN, TOO.

Edit: And not Rude-io is up there speaking and saying "in 2008, there was a terrible downturn in our economy" [implication: BECAUSE OF OBAMA]: LIAR!!! Because of IRAQ and the MORTGAGE CRASH, you are lying.

Deepvoid
03-15-2016, 08:25 PM
Down goes Rubio! Down goes Rubio!

allegro
03-15-2016, 08:26 PM
Down goes Rubio! Down goes Rubio!

And he's praying. Egad.

Deepvoid
03-15-2016, 08:31 PM
And he's praying. Egad.

Kasich looks like he's gonna get Ohio.
Trump get NC, Missouri and Illinois.
Cruz gets nothing.

Is that it? Is there a path for Cruz?

onthewall2983
03-15-2016, 08:32 PM
Cruz gets nothing.

Is that it? Is there a path for Cruz?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5QGkOGZubQ

allegro
03-15-2016, 08:41 PM
FUCK these evangelicals.

Wait, nobody wants to actually fuck them.

The Catholics are way more fuckable.


Is that it? Is there a path for Cruz?
Off a tall cliff.

GulDukat
03-15-2016, 09:04 PM
Returns for all five states.
http://www.nytimes.com/live/primary-elections-march-15/

allegro
03-15-2016, 09:07 PM
Returns for all five states.
http://www.nytimes.com/live/primary-elections-march-15/

Holy crap, Hillary winning all five states???? :)

NOW WE HAVE TO VOTE OUT THE REPUBS IN THE SENATE!!!! WE DEMS CAN TAKE BACK BACK THE SENATE!!!

edit: race called for Tammy Duckworth and Mark Kirk in Illinois (http://patch.com/illinois/highlandpark/s/fnjdq/updated-illinois-senate-primary-election-results-race-called-for-tammy-duckworth-mark-kirk?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&utm_term=politics+%26+government&utm_campaign=recirc&utm_content=aol). Tammy Duckworth (D-IL) has a real shot at willing the Illinois Senate in November.

GulDukat
03-15-2016, 09:27 PM
Looks like Clinton will have a good nignt. She was expected to win NC and FL, but Ohio is another major prize. If she wins all five, the wind will be taken out of Sander's sails.

allegro
03-15-2016, 09:42 PM
Meanwhile, so far this fucking North Shore School District 112 Referendum is LOSING!!!

MUA HA HA HA HA!!! :p

Also, Kim Foxx is beating Anita Alvarez by a LOT in Cook County (http://chicagotonight.wttw.com/2016/03/15/primary-coverage-cook-county-state-s-attorney-race) ha ha ha ha ha!! (I'm in Lake County so I couldn't vote but BRAVO Cook County).

Chicago’s Top Prosecutor Doomed Thousands Of School Kids (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/03/15/3759707/anita-alvarez-day-of-reckoning/)

implanted_microchip
03-15-2016, 10:52 PM
the wind will be taken out of Sander's sails.

Not like those sails were taking him anywhere anyway though

allegro
03-15-2016, 11:00 PM
Ugh, CRUZ, ugh, every word that comes out of his mouth is total bullshit. THE BIGGEST liar of all of these candidates. And he was a SCOTUS clerk, so I hold him to a higher standard. He needs to be stuck on a stick.

Btw, so far Sanders is losing Cook County, Illinois, to Hillary.

Jinsai
03-15-2016, 11:31 PM
So it seems Clinton will be the chosen candidate before I even get to vote in the primaries. This system is so blatantly broken

sick among the pure
03-15-2016, 11:56 PM
So it seems Clinton will be the chosen candidate before I even get to vote in the primaries. This system is so blatantly broken

Eh, 1,021 to 678 isn't as bad as people are hyping it up to be. Hillary actually had more delegates by this time in 2008 (if my math is right, which honestly, it's midnight and I had a long day at work so maybe I fucked up who knows but either way isn't nowhere near a blowout). It's a close enough race that no matter who wins, they will be better for the democratic party than if it were actually a blowout. I'm still looking forward to voting for Bernie next month.

DigitalChaos
03-16-2016, 12:10 AM
So it seems Clinton will be the chosen candidate before I even get to vote in the primaries. This system is so blatantly broken
1 - that's democracy!
2 - the primary system isn't even democracy. It's the game your party has chosen to produce a single candidate. They use whatever rules the party wants and those rules can change at any time. The system is also incredibly easy to corrupt. Just look at the insane caucus system. People seem to confuse the primary as the same process as the general election. The most true democracy is the general election.


You need to push your party to fix this! People always end up forgetting about the fucked up primary process because the general election immediately picks up and creates a big distraction. Nobody thinks about it again for at least another 4 years.

GulDukat
03-16-2016, 01:18 AM
So it seems Clinton will be the chosen candidate before I even get to vote in the primaries. This system is so blatantly broken
That's the way it works. We often have a presumptive nominee at this point. Not saying it's fair.

Jinsai
03-16-2016, 01:19 AM
You need to push your party to fix this! People always end up forgetting about the fucked up primary process because the general election immediately picks up and creates a big distraction. Nobody thinks about it again for at least another 4 years.

The general election process is even more fucked! You and I both live in California, so our vote is already cast. The only incentive I have to go out and vote in the general election is some kind of nonsense philosophical duty.

GulDukat
03-16-2016, 01:30 AM
Clinton won all five States. I'm pretty shocked she did as well as she did.

DigitalChaos
03-16-2016, 01:31 AM
The general election process is even more fucked! You and I both live in California, so our vote is already cast. The only incentive I have to go out and vote in the general election is some kind of nonsense philosophical duty.

There are tons of issues with our general election system. The first past the post system in general sucks. But it's at least a more "pure" implementation of that model and significantly harder to corrupt, compared to the primaries. We don't see official rules changing in the middle of the process, vote counts done by hand that demonstratably change within minutes and have no logs to check, etc. Hell, at least everyone votes at the same time in the general.

Changing the vote system of the general would be great, but the implementation of the system is less broken than the primaries.

Jinsai
03-16-2016, 01:45 AM
There are tons of issues with our general election system. The first past the post system in general sucks. But it's at least a more "pure" implementation of that model and significantly harder to corrupt, compared to the primaries. We don't see official rules changing in the middle of the process, vote counts done by hand that demonstratably change within minutes and have no logs to check, etc. Hell, at least everyone votes at the same time in the general.

Changing the vote system of the general would be great, but the implementation of the system is less broken than the primaries.

Maybe,... but yeah this staggered primary voting process is lunacy. It can objectively settle the issue before everyone has had a chance to vote, and that is outrageous and insulting to the basic concept of democracy.

ziltoid
03-16-2016, 02:51 AM
There is still a chance for Bernie to win: http://heavy.com/news/2016/03/can-bernie-sanders-win-the-democratic-nomination-primary-phonebank-facebank-reddit/

Exocet
03-16-2016, 03:49 AM
Dont underestimate Trump seriously....ever heard of the term....Silent Majority? ...

Last years UK election was a classic example of this....all the polls were wrong.
The conservatives won by 3 Mlillion votes.
No one saw it coming.

I know the U.S is different. But just remember the words Silent Majority...urgh

tony.parente
03-16-2016, 07:50 AM
Dont underestimate Trump seriously....ever heard of the term....Silent Majority? ...


That would be Hillary Clinton.

Where the hell are her supporters?!? I haven't met but maybe one in real life.

Swykk
03-16-2016, 08:42 AM
I have seen lots of women on the internet saying they're voting for Hillary Clinton because "it's time we had a female president."

I'm all for the right woman becoming president (see: Elizabeth Warren). War mongering, pro Wall Street, Monsanto shill Clinton is NOT the right woman for the job.

That said, if she ends up being the nominee, I am not in the #Bernorbust crowd. I will vote for her over those hateful fundamentalist sociopaths who want to make it 1953 again.

Mantra
03-16-2016, 10:57 AM
lol

The Onion: Violence Erupts At Trump Rally After Supporters Clash With Protesting GOP Leaders (http://www.theonion.com/article/violence-erupts-trump-rally-after-supporters-clash-52567)

http://i.onionstatic.com/onion/5295/0/16x9/565.jpg

theruiner
03-16-2016, 11:00 AM
So it seems Clinton will be the chosen candidate before I even get to vote in the primaries. This system is so blatantly brokenYeah, that definitely seems to be the case.

Our primaries are next week and while I'm still going to go out and vote for Bernie I know it won't make a damn bit of difference at this point.

implanted_microchip
03-16-2016, 11:35 AM
People that support Bernie saying things like "If Hillary's the nominee I'm going Trump!" very clearly don't seem to understand almost any of Bernie's stances or the concept of being a progressive, I guess. I've comforted myself by assuming they're just sixteen year old "fuck the world" edgey little assholes or just the people who every election get bitchy and then come around when it's time for the general.

Happily for anyone still into Bernie who hasn't yet voted, he's vowed to keep going until the convention, and considering he lost like a motherfucker last night and proceeded to spend an hour rambling on his stump speeches without mentioning his losses pretty much at all, it looks like that'll hold true! I voted for him here in Florida but I knew ahead of time he'd likely not take it. I don't mind. I really like both a lot and honestly hesitated in the polling booth between going for he or Hillary (and a rogue part of me wanted to bubble in O'Malley, just to give him some sense of a distant win, like a glinting plane on the horizon of the evening sun).

I will say that at this point it's almost certain Bernie won't be the nominee and the longer he does this the worse I think it'll make him look. He was absolutely an issues candidate who managed to climb high and shift the entire dialogue to things passionate to he and his supporters and forced Hillary to move more left. That's not something to shrug at. I really don't think he expected to get this far and do this well. But if he continues to go on, touting how he only takes donations from normal people, with most of his support coming from middle-to-lower-income donors, he's going to look like a real asshole -- he raises millions a month from people who really shouldn't be giving their money away and at this point will be well aware that it's for a lost cause. That just feels very "anti" what a big aspect of his platform has been. I don't know, I get the vibe that the guy didn't ever think he'd have come this far and now has gotten hooked on the idea of it, despite it looking less likely almost every primary day.

aggroculture
03-16-2016, 11:35 AM
I'm all for the right woman becoming president (see: Elizabeth Warren). War mongering, pro Wall Street, Monsanto shill Clinton is NOT the right woman for the job.

That said, if she ends up being the nominee, I am not in the #Bernorbust crowd. I will vote for her over those hateful fundamentalist sociopaths who want to make it 1953 again.

Yeah, and I agree with you. This is sadly how a two-party system works: vote for the bad candidate in order to keep out the worse candidate. But how about a good candidate instead? I hope this election cycle could be the beginning of a process of breaking open the two party system. We need a more left alternative than what mainstream dems have to offer.


I will say that at this point it's almost certain Bernie won't be the nominee and the longer he does this the worse I think it'll make him look. He was absolutely an issues candidate who managed to climb high and shift the entire dialogue to things passionate to he and his supporters and forced Hillary to move more left. That's not something to shrug at. I really don't think he expected to get this far and do this well. But if he continues to go on, touting how he only takes donations from normal people, with most of his support coming from middle-to-lower-income donors, he's going to look like a real asshole -- he raises millions a month from people who really shouldn't be giving their money away and at this point will be well aware that it's for a lost cause. That just feels very "anti" what a big aspect of his platform has been. I don't know, I get the vibe that the guy didn't ever think he'd have come this far and now has gotten hooked on the idea of it, despite it looking less likely almost every primary day.

https://newrepublic.com/article/131635/bernie-sanders-needs-new-reason-stay-race-heres-one

I agree with this article that Bernie should use his platform to influence the debate as long as he can.
It's like when people say "Occupy Wall Street failed." Depends what you mean: it made income inequality a central part of mainstream political conversation...everyone knows what the 1% is, and it arguably helped topple Romney with his 47% remarks.
As for Clinton...this "make America whole" sounds like a reaction to Trump. Trump sets the debate and she follows and if she wants to win the election I believe she needs to take more cues from Bernie in terms of doing her own thing, but it could be already too late, because her own thing is towing the corporate line and the status quo. But maybe voters will stick with the status quo, like they did in the UK. And maybe Trump is a lot of noise, but in times of economic growth, why go with a wild card? This could also be why Sanders isn't doing better than he is. Maybe Hillary's bid for the center ground will be a winning strategy.

implanted_microchip
03-16-2016, 12:39 PM
Um, wow:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/boehner-endorses-paul-ryan-for-president-220855

Boehner not only is endorsing Paul Ryan for the nomination but also calls Ted Cruz "lucifer." This election on the GOP side is so fucking juicy.

richardp
03-16-2016, 12:40 PM
That would be Hillary Clinton.

Where the hell are her supporters?!? I haven't met but maybe one in real life.

I can second this. I was fucking floored last night that she won the county I live in in Missouri. Because I GENUINELY have never seen more than maybe 3 bumper stickers/signs for Hilary this entire campaign. Kansas City is such a pro-Bernie city and it takes up basically all of the entire county.



People that support Bernie saying things like "If Hillary's the nominee I'm going Trump!" very clearly don't seem to understand almost any of Bernie's stances or the concept of being a progressive, I guess. I've comforted myself by assuming they're just sixteen year old "fuck the world" edgey little assholes or just the people who every election get bitchy and then come around when it's time for the general.

I have yet to see anyone say that. That is insane. If anyone is claiming they'll vote for Drumpf if Bernie doesn't get it, they are one hundred percent missing the point and HAVE to be just trendy bandwagoners. That makes no sense. If anything, most people I know are all hopeful that if Bernie doesn't get the nomination, that Hilary will choose him for her VP and then we can all basically just vote for the combo of both nominees and then everyone is happy. And honestly, Hilary would be unwise to NOT choose Bernie. If she doesn't realize how many voters she would gain from a move like that, that would be such a missed opportunity. She would SURELY crush the Repub candidate with Bernie as her VP.


I will say that at this point it's almost certain Bernie won't be the nominee and the longer he does this the worse I think it'll make him look.

Actually Bernie still has a decent shot at winning. All the states that Hilary was slated to win have now voted. Most of the states that are projecting Bernie to take the lead on have yet to vote. Just because he lost every state last night doesn't mean he's not out. He still has a very good chance.

Jinsai
03-16-2016, 01:20 PM
I only have one friend who is very pro-Hillary, and she's pretty blunt about the fact that the reason she wants her for president is because she "wants a female president. It's time." It's not an issue I even feel comfortable bringing up because of how she personally invests her support. I would love a female president. Let's have Elizabeth Warren run, and I'd love to vote for her. But I just don't like or trust Clinton, and I think she and her team are basically cooking the books here. Ultimately, she's a less likely victor against Cruz or Trump, and that's all I care about at this point.

tony.parente
03-16-2016, 01:45 PM
I only have one friend who is very pro-Hillary, and she's pretty blunt about the fact that the reason she wants her for president is because she "wants a female president. It's time." It's not an issue I even feel comfortable bringing up because of how she personally invests her support. I would love a female president. Let's have Elizabeth Warren run, and I'd love to vote for her. But I just don't like or trust Clinton, and I think she and her team are basically cooking the books here. Ultimately, she's a less likely victor against Cruz or Trump, and that's all I care about at this point.

Your friend is probably a lovely person, but it's attitudes like hers that make feminism look so fucking stupid to the general public.

aggroculture
03-16-2016, 01:56 PM
http://www.theonion.com/video/brutal-anti-cruz-attack-ad-just-30-seconds-candida-52562

Swykk
03-16-2016, 02:14 PM
Jinsai Yeah that's pretty much it.

allegro
03-16-2016, 03:33 PM
This is a GREAT article in the Atlantic, a MUST READ (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/01/the-great-republican-revolt/419118/).

DigitalChaos
03-16-2016, 03:53 PM
This is a GREAT article in the Atlantic, a MUST READ (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/01/the-great-republican-revolt/419118/).
I like it.
It's sad how few people understand who is supporting Trump and why. People who justify Trump support as some racist underpinning are clueless and simple-minded failures of democracy. Just look at Trump's approach to trade, for example. His approach is something that would protect (or even restore) the jobs of blue collar workers who are seeing their jobs evaporate. They see Sanders supporters "asking for free stuff" like college while all the blue collar, non college educated, people want is their jobs and the retirement funds they have been working toward for decades.

orestes
03-16-2016, 05:02 PM
Your friend is probably a lovely person, but it's attitudes like hers that make feminism look so fucking stupid to the general public.

That's silly because many feminists have taken Clinton to task for her brand of "corporate feminism" and the dismissive comments her surrogates have made about young women voters.

DigitalChaos
03-16-2016, 05:07 PM
There are many divides in feminism. It's not a single block. But the "voting for hillary because genitals" voters are absolutely representative of some feminists.

DigitalChaos
03-16-2016, 05:11 PM
Maybe,... but yeah this staggered primary voting process is lunacy. It can objectively settle the issue before everyone has had a chance to vote, and that is outrageous and insulting to the basic concept of democracy.

Just to be clear, I am not being hyperbolic or thinking of the primaries as some lie/conspiracy. The rules where the party picks the candidate (not the voters) is built into the system and openly admitted. People assuming the primary process is a democratic voting system are under that belief entirely because they are not informed.

Just today, a member of the RNC's Rules Committee said that the party will decide who the GOP nominee will be, not the voters (http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/273223-gop-official-the-party-chooses-the-nominee-not-the-voters).

"The media has created the perception that the voters will decide the nomination," Curly Haugland said. "That's the conflict here." "The political parties choose their nominees, not the general public, contrary to popular belief,"

allegro
03-16-2016, 06:14 PM
Article in the LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-california-primary-20160316-story.html).

onthewall2983
03-16-2016, 07:26 PM
Trump finally says something that speaks to me by saying there's been enough GOP debates.

Jinsai
03-17-2016, 01:45 AM
Just to be clear, I am not being hyperbolic or thinking of the primaries as some lie/conspiracy. The rules where the party picks the candidate (not the voters) is built into the system and openly admitted. People assuming the primary process is a democratic voting system are under that belief entirely because they are not informed.

Just today, a member of the RNC's Rules Committee said that the party will decide who the GOP nominee will be, not the voters (http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/273223-gop-official-the-party-chooses-the-nominee-not-the-voters).

"The media has created the perception that the voters will decide the nomination," Curly Haugland said. "That's the conflict here." "The political parties choose their nominees, not the general public, contrary to popular belief,"

so fucking insane

thevoid99
03-17-2016, 01:49 AM
And I read that Drumpf believe that his supporters will riot of the GOP doesn't nominate him.

Jinsai
03-17-2016, 01:55 AM
And I read that Drumpf believe that his supporters will riot of the GOP doesn't nominate him.

I would love to see a Trump-supporter riot break out... "We're mad and incredibly stupid and we don't know what the fuck we're mad about, but we're mad as hell! About fucking nothing!"

If they actually created any kind of real riot, they might find themselves on the losing end of some violence. They may be stupid, but they're not so stupid that they don't understand that. There will be no fucking Trump riots.

GulDukat
03-17-2016, 02:15 AM
Good article on Trump the con man.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-lies-gaslighting_us_56e95d21e4b065e2e3d7ee82?

aggroculture
03-17-2016, 10:41 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v75wCTMZoSY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v75wCTMZoSY)
Bit troubled by this, can't stop watching

aggroculture
03-17-2016, 10:45 AM
and this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FrNyTvOZDY

and this:
http://gawker.com/ted-cruz-only-eats-soup-and-other-weird-facts-he-volunt-1765277404

#sorrydoublecruzpost

allegro
03-17-2016, 11:43 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v75wCTMZoSY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v75wCTMZoSY)
Bit troubled by this, can't stop watching
This is brilliant.

Jinsai
03-17-2016, 03:16 PM
FAAAAAAACK.... I can't stand it anymore!!!! Please, I need to stop seeing Ted Cruz's fucking face! PLEASE! Everywhere I look it's that fucking horrible face! My sanity will absolutely shatter if this keeps up.

Mantra
03-17-2016, 04:29 PM
look into his eyes jinsai

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CL40NQiVEAAF0T0.jpg

allegro
03-17-2016, 09:09 PM
Good article on Trump the con man.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-lies-gaslighting_us_56e95d21e4b065e2e3d7ee82?

Not con man. Narcissist. My mother is a narcissist. So is my father. I think so many of us were raised by narcissists and are surrounded by narcissists and have been so abused by narcissists we have come to accept (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting) this shit as totally normal (http://www.elephantjournal.com/2015/08/gaslighting-the-mind-game-everyone-should-know-about/). I don't know that Trump is this level of narcissist, but he's playing the system using the same techniques. And we have come to accept that all politicians are liars, and narcissists, so it doesn't really matter. Joe the Machinist just wants his job back. He doesn't care that Trump is a dick or a narcissist. He just cares that Trump promises to bring his job back from China, reinforce Social Security, tax Wall Street, and make deals with the Dems to "get things done."

Some of the media is particularly brutal to Trump because Trump knows how the "media" works and how it's controlled by a few big corporations and he's not granting some press passes (read: money, hits, ads) and they're pissed; no Presidential nominee has played the media like this, before. And it's hilarious to watch, frankly.

I am typing this on tiny phone sorry for any typos.

DigitalChaos
03-18-2016, 12:32 AM
My mother is a narcissist. So is my father. I think so many of us were raised by narcissists and are surrounded by narcissists and have been so abused by narcissists we have come to accept (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting) this shit as totally normal (http://www.elephantjournal.com/2015/08/gaslighting-the-mind-game-everyone-should-know-about/). I don't know that Trump is this level of narcissist, but he's playing the system using the same techniques. And we have come to accept that all politicians are liars, and narcissists, so it doesn't really matter.
god damn it. i want to unread this. this shit is NOT helping my views of the vast majority of voters viewing government as a paternal figure and that people are in a perpetual state of never growing up and cannot be self sufficient adults.



edit: oh look

this shit as totally normal (http://www.elephantjournal.com/2015/08/gaslighting-the-mind-game-everyone-should-know-about/).
"The whole intention of gaslighting is to decrease someone’s self-esteem and self-confidence so they are unable to function in an independent manner. The person being gaslighted will eventually become so insecure that they will fail to trust their own judgment, their intuition and find themselves unable to make decisions.

Eventually the victim will become so unsure of what reality looks like that they become completely dependent on their abuser. The abuser will appear to the victim to be the only one to have a clear grip of their mind and also of what is going on around them.
They may also remove things from certain places and then deny doing so to destabilize and confuse the other person."


Gaslighter = govt officials
victim = citizens
removing/controlling things = govt provided services, economic stability, inflation, etc.

i know thats not exactly what you were saying... but fuck

aggroculture
03-18-2016, 12:56 AM
FAAAAAAACK.... I can't stand it anymore!!!! Please, I need to stop seeing Ted Cruz's fucking face! PLEASE! Everywhere I look it's that fucking horrible face! My sanity will absolutely shatter if this keeps up.


Cruz in person is almost physically repellent. Psychology Today even ran an article by a neurology professor named Dr. Richard Cytowic about the peculiarly off-putting qualities of Cruz's face.
He used a German term, backpfeifengesicht, literally "a face in need of a good punch," to describe Cruz. This may be overstating things a little. Cruz certainly has an odd face – it looks like someone sewed pieces of a waterlogged Reagan mask together at gunpoint – but it's his tone more than anything that gets you. He speaks slowly and loudly and in the most histrionic language possible, as if he's certain you're too stupid to grasp that he is for freedom.



that line about the Reagan mask is one of the funniest things I've read by Taibbi; (the piece as a whole is meh)

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/how-america-made-donald-trump-unstoppable-20160224?page=10

allegro
03-18-2016, 01:07 AM
god damn it. i want to unread this. this shit is NOT helping my views of the vast majority of voters viewing government as a paternal figure
Most see the President as a paternal figure, absolutely. I don't know that this means that voters haven't "grown up," but voters (perhaps subconsciously) expect the President to perform as a paternal figure. But in this modern day and age, most are willing to forgive many faults, just as they forgive their own father's many (often abusive or narcissistic) faults, so long as he gives us what we want and protects us. We aren't as moral as we used to be. And facing a possible female as President, we expect a maternal figure and we are (perhaps subconsciously) willing to accept her maternal faults, although not nearly as much as Dad's; not yet, anyway. We don't care if Dad is fucking his secretary so long as he gives us what we want and protects us.

More interesting, this dude is on MSNBC right now (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/17/the-republican-myth-of-the-untapped-white-voter.html) saying that Reagan won with 56% of the white vote in 1980, then Romney won with 59% of the white vote but lost in 24 states in 2012, and that the GOP will need over 65% of the white vote in 2016 to win, but really it needs a far more diverse vote to win, which it doesn't care about at all, because it sticks to this basic Reagan tax cut ideology which doesn't appeal to white people anymore*, let alone minorities, so the GOP will not have a chance of winning the Presidency.


In 1980, Ronald Reagan won 56 percent of white voters and won a landslide victory of 44 states. In 2012, Mitt Romney won 59 percent of whites and lost with 24 states. But it’s a frequent talking point that white voter enthusiasm was higher for Reagan and turnout down for Romney. Not so. In 1980, 59 percent of whites voted and in 2012, 64 percent of whites voted.

But still the myth survives that there are these masses of untapped white voters just waiting for the right candidate. Call it the Lost Tribes of the Amazon theory: If only you paddle far enough up the river and bang the drum loud enough, these previously hidden voters will gather to the river’s edge. The simple truth is that there simply aren’t enough white voters in the America of 2016 to win a national election without also getting a substantial share of the non-white vote. Romney won 17 percent of the non-white vote. Depending on white voter turnout, a Republican needs between 25 percent and 35 percent of the non-white vote to win. RealClearPolitics has a handy tool so you can play with the percentages.

*caveat that Trump isn't sticking to the GOP party platform of Reagan tax ideology which is partly why he's appealing to so many Republican voters but not enough to get 65% of white eligible voters to the polls.

aggroculture
03-18-2016, 09:24 AM
allegro curious about your views on what will happen with the SCOTUS: can the Repubs really stonewall Obama's nominations until the election? I hear plenty of people, including Warren, arguing that it's unconstitutional...

Timinator
03-18-2016, 09:29 AM
FAAAAAAACK.... I can't stand it anymore!!!! Please, I need to stop seeing Ted Cruz's fucking face! PLEASE! Everywhere I look it's that fucking horrible face! My sanity will absolutely shatter if this keeps up.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdRnAmpWwAAyukk.jpg

http://www.stereogum.com/1866192/stryper-frontman-denies-he-is-ted-cruz/news/

Santos L Halper
03-18-2016, 10:04 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CdRnAmpWwAAyukk.jpg

http://www.stereogum.com/1866192/stryper-frontman-denies-he-is-ted-cruz/news/

Of all the weird Ted Cruz meme's/internet stuff going around this is my favorite so far.

DigitalChaos
03-18-2016, 12:47 PM
@allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) curious about your views on what will happen with the SCOTUS: can the Repubs really stonewall Obama's nominations until the election? I hear plenty of people, including Warren, arguing that it's unconstitutional...
replying before allegro so that she can correct me (cause i love when that happens)


It's totally Constitutional. Senate has to confirm any SCOTUS appointment. There has been a dozen times where one has been denied. And this is just the very beginning. If there comes a point where there is a majority vote, there can be a filibuster to force a super majority.

One thing that nobody has talked about but I am curious about: Congress actually controls the size of SCOTUS. What's stopping them from shrinking it by 1 head until Obama is out of office? edit: apparently this is exactly what happened to Andrew Johnson in the very link i posted. derp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appointment_and_confirmation_to_the_Supreme_Court_ of_the_United_States

IMO, this seems like a good design. It allows for various "overrides" should central power start to get used in ways the people dislike. I am frequently impressed with how well thought out a lot of the Constitution is.

allegro
03-18-2016, 12:59 PM
allegro curious about your views on what will happen with the SCOTUS: can the Repubs really stonewall Obama's nominations until the election? I hear plenty of people, including Warren, arguing that it's unconstitutional...


replying before allegro so that she can correct me (cause i love when that happens)

It's totally Constitutional. Senate has to confirm any SCOTUS appointment. There has been a dozen times where one has been denied. And this is just the very beginning. If there comes a point where there is a majority vote, there can be a filibuster to force a super majority.

One thing that nobody has talked about but I am curious about: Congress actually controls the size of SCOTUS. What's stopping them from shrinking it by 1 head until Obama is out of office? edit: apparently this is exactly what happened to Andrew Johnson in the very link i posted. derp

SCOTUS needs at least a quorum of 6 to decide a case (http://www.supremecourt.gov/faq.aspx#faqgi8). SCOTUS often only sits with 8 Justices (or less) due to illnesses or recusals. The Republican arm of the Senate Judicial Committee refusing to at least consider the nominated justice is unprecedented and probably unconstitutional. See this government report, pp 15 - 26 (http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/50146.pdf).

DigitalChaos
03-18-2016, 01:47 PM
I still dont understand why they are refusing to consider when they have plenty of other known legal options. Maybe it's a delay tactic? Wait until they get in trouble there and then switch to the numerous legal options sitting in their back pocket?

Frozen Beach
03-18-2016, 02:53 PM
This is kind of a random comment, but I just had a thought that the amount of "Make America Great Again" hats that will plague Thrift Shops and Flea Markets after this is all over is gonna be fucking ridiculous. It will rival St. Anger cds.

DigitalChaos
03-18-2016, 03:05 PM
nah man, those will be historical relics, like first editions of Mein Kampf

Frozen Beach
03-18-2016, 05:54 PM
http://recode.net/2016/03/18/anonymous-distributes-donald-trumps-personal-info/
I'm sorry, but while I don't like Donald Trump, this is fucking disgusting. Posting things like his personal address, cell phone and even his SSN? Are you kidding me? With the amount of threats of assassination, it's like they're basically encouraging people to do it by releasing this info. Donald Trump will destroy himself. He doesn't need help.

edit: and yeah, Trump may have given out Lindsey Graham's cellphone before, but that does NOT excuse this shit. You should want to be above that person, not stooping to their level.

allegro
03-18-2016, 06:05 PM
http://recode.net/2016/03/18/anonymous-distributes-donald-trumps-personal-info/
I'm sorry, but while I don't like Donald Trump, this is fucking disgusting. Posting things like his personal address, cell phone and even his SSN? Are you kidding me? With the amount of threats of assassination, it's like they're basically encouraging people to do it by releasing this info. Donald Trump will destroy himself. He doesn't need help.
.

They also sent a letter to Eric Trump, threatening to hurt Eric's wife and the other Trump kids unless Donald Trump pulls out of the race (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/threatening-letter-sent-to-donald-trump-son-eric-trump/)

Lindsey Graham can change his cell number in 2 minutes. Trump can't change his Soc. Somebody having access to all that info can lead to hacking all of his accounts. That is stooping quite a bit "lower" on the Federal felony scale.

DigitalChaos
03-18-2016, 07:29 PM
it's also typical anonymous bullshit

Anonymous Takes Credit for Releasing Donald Trump’s Personal Information That's Been Online for Months (https://news.vice.com/article/anonymous-donald-trump-social-security-hack)

Using that info to fuck with people and threaten their safety is lame as fuck though... but they also have Secret Service protection for a reason. However, Trump gave out Lindsay Graham's phone number last year to fuck with him, so he kinda deserves it. The one person behind this "anonymous war against Trump" is dumb as fuck though. Using terminology from Mr Robot... lol 2edgy4me. that person has to be around 12 or 13.

allegro
03-18-2016, 07:34 PM
Giving out a cell number is not a felony, it's a mere inconvenience. Courtney Love gave out (DJ) Kennedy's personal cell number to thousands of people on stage; revenge should not equal identity theft and threatening family members and sending anthrax-like substances in envelopes.

p.s. Lindsey Graham deserved the inconvenience because Lindsey Graham is a psycho asshole who, after saying shit about Ted Cruz for years, and comparing choosing between Trump and Cruz with getting shot or getting poisoned, just endorsed Ted Cruz.

Graham once said, "If you killed Ted Cruz on the floor of the Senate, and the trial was in the Senate, nobody would convict you."

allegro
03-18-2016, 07:46 PM
I still dont understand why they are refusing to consider when they have plenty of other known legal options. Maybe it's a delay tactic? Wait until they get in trouble there and then switch to the numerous legal options sitting in their back pocket?

More obstructionism. And if we elect either of these two Democratic Presidential candidates and if we continue with a majority Republican Congress, we can expect four more years of obstructionism.

Jinsai
03-19-2016, 12:21 AM
More obstructionism. And if we elect either of these two Democratic Presidential candidates and if we continue with a majority Republican Congress, we can expect four more years of obstructionism.

I know that people mock this sort of distress... but I really can't deal. For the first time in my life, I'm finding myself having to "count to ten" and calm the fuck down when I'm hearing people talk about politics. I feel like I'm sitting around watching the country slowly put a gun in its mouth.

allegro
03-19-2016, 01:05 AM
I know that people mock this sort of distress... but I really can't deal. For the first time in my life, I'm finding myself having to "count to ten" and calm the fuck down when I'm hearing people talk about politics. I feel like I'm sitting around watching the country slowly put a gun in its mouth.
Most of the country agrees with you.

That frustration with obstructionism is what spawned Trump and his success on the Republican side. Remember, his closing lines at nearly all of the debates was "these politicians don't get anything done; I'm a businessman, I make deals, I'll get things done." Cruz says that's like the words of a traitor. Your own chickens done come home to roost, Ted. After shutting down the Government where Veterans and the fucking MILITARY didn't get paid because of your Middle Earth stupid obstructionism trying to overturn Obamacare, Ted, America has pretty much tired of your Tea Party shit and is now shoving Trump up your Texas ass. Yeehaw.

People are so fucking hyperfocused on the Presidential race, most don't even know who their Senators are so Dems can at least take back the Senate.

In Illinois, Democrat Tammy Duckworth is running to unseat Republican Senator Mark Kirk (he said single guy Lindsey Graham is a "Bro with No Ho" (http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/mark-kirk-lindsey-graham_n_7589670.html) and when smacked for it he said, "that's how we say it on the South Side" even though it's doubtful the Highland Park native has actually been to the South Side of Chicago, lol).

Then, the National Republican Senatorial Committee (NRSC) Tweeted that Duckworth "doesn't stand up for Vets" (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/powerpost/wp/2016/03/08/the-gop-said-tammy-duckworth-doesnt-stand-up-for-vets-the-problem-she-lost-her-legs-in-iraq/), except Duckworth lost her legs in Iraq WTF.

GulDukat
03-19-2016, 07:02 AM
Prediction markets give Dems a 72% chance of keeping the White House.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/prediction-markets-2016-race_us_56ebf46ce4b03a640a6a3039?section=politics&

hyprpwr
03-19-2016, 08:47 AM
Prediction markets give Dems a 72% chance of keeping the White House.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/prediction-markets-2016-race_us_56ebf46ce4b03a640a6a3039?section=politics&

From the Huffington Post? Shocking!

Frozen Beach
03-20-2016, 01:35 PM
Apparently two protestors showed up to the AZ Trump rally, one in a KKK hood doing a nazi salute and the other in an American flag shirt holding a picture of Trump with a confederate flag superimposed over his face. The guy holding the picture was assaulted... by a black Trump supporter. You can't make this stuff up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_WScwLKfR0

Jinsai
03-20-2016, 01:36 PM
From the Huffington Post? Shocking!

What's a bit odd is that this is a report coming from someone within the Rothschild family? They notoriously built their empire on vying for financial gains by funding both sides in wars, before deciding which side to pull the plug on (when it became apparent which victory would yield the most lucrative results)... most notably and famously with Napoleon.

thevoid99
03-21-2016, 08:04 PM
Well, if Drumpf thinks he can build a wall between U.S. and Mexico. Well, that ain't gonna happen cabron.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU8dCYocuyI

DigitalChaos
03-21-2016, 08:16 PM
let's build a wall around Trump and make Sanders pay for it

Timinator
03-22-2016, 11:10 AM
Media's POV: "Covering a Trump event is like watching a 1970s Black Flag concert from inside a shark cage. (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/03/on_the_trail_with_donald_trump_s_disgusting_press_ corps.html)"

GulDukat
03-22-2016, 02:09 PM
One person thinks the race is over:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/doug-sosnik-memo-2016-is-over-213753?cmpid=sf#ixzz43eFxLtgo

implanted_microchip
03-22-2016, 02:18 PM
Media's POV: "Covering a Trump event is like watching a 1970s Black Flag concert from inside a shark cage. (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/03/on_the_trail_with_donald_trump_s_disgusting_press_ corps.html)"

That description in the title makes it sound unfairly awesome, actually

DigitalChaos
03-23-2016, 01:53 AM
Piers Morgan asks: isn't it time we started listening seriously to Trump? Is he so wrong?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3504893/PIERS-MORGAN-comes-terror-isn-t-time-started-listening-seriously-Trump.html

Deepvoid
03-23-2016, 07:30 AM
Bernie squashed Hilary in Idaho and Utah while she won Arizona. Total delegates: Hilary: 51; Bernie: 67.
Cruz got over 50% in Utah meaning he got all 40 delegates. Trump took 58 delegates in Arizona. Rubio got 13.5%, Carson 2.7%

Why would anyone vote for Rubio? Why are these people still on the ballot? What am I not understanding here?
Fiorina and Huckabee both got over 1,000 votes. WTF?

aggroculture
03-23-2016, 10:35 AM
It's only March and this election cycle is making me depressed. Every day I open FB and see a dozen articles about Trump.
How beating up black people is normal at his rallies.
Then there's Cruz, who the Republican establishment is now rallying around.
A man who wants to "patrol and secure" Muslim neighborhoods - reminds me of that "Observe and Report" Seth Rogen movie.
Mitch McConnell, refusing to hear any SCOTUS candidate nominated by Obama: what's the point of a constitution if a majority can simply refuse to abide by it?
The decimation of Democrats under Obama's watch:

it is true that Obama’s tenure has been disastrous for Democrats. The Party has gone from a Senate caucus of sixty members to forty-six, and from a substantial majority in the House of Representatives to a seemingly permanent minority. In the states, Democrats have lost ten governorships and nine hundred and ten legislative seats. This is not all Obama’s fault, of course, but it rarely seems his concern, eitherhttp://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/03/28/merrick-garland-and-the-politics-of-the-supreme-court
And the best we have to look forward to is a Hillary Walmart Goldman Sachs Clinton presidency? This time there's not even an Obama to fight for.
Yeah I'm depressed.

ziltoid
03-23-2016, 01:49 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y9a_fppzTk

http://usuncut.com/news/arizona-polling-disaster/

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/hillary-clinton-wins-arizona-some-bernie-sanders-supporters-claim-potential-voter-suppression-8162257

http://usuncut.com/politics/5-examples-voter-suppression-arizona-primary/

https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4blrjm/voter_suppression_thread_if_you_were_unable_to/



Every time I hear news about Arizona its either racist or how they fuck over minorities.
God dammit Arizona get your shit together. This is beyond frustrating.

Deepvoid
03-24-2016, 07:18 AM
Bernie Sanders full interview with The Young Turks.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggFitmOTSok

ziltoid
03-24-2016, 11:24 AM
Arizona: Hillary Clinton’s Election Fraud Exposed (http://www.anonews.co/hillary-clintons-election-fraud-exposed/)


She stole Iowa, Nevada and Massachusetts – but Arizona is Hillary Clinton’s election fraud masterpiece.


Arizona law already effectively disenfranchises 36 percent of registered voters.

allegro
03-24-2016, 11:28 AM
Arizona: Hillary Clinton’s Election Fraud Exposed (http://www.anonews.co/hillary-clintons-election-fraud-exposed/)
LOL, I can't BELIEVE they are blaming a DEMOCRAT for that, hahahahahaha. That was totally all Republicans that did that shit, and they KNOW it (http://reverbpress.com/politics/meet-the-tea-party-republican-behind-arizonas-colossal-voting-clusterfk/).

See also this (http://usuncut.com/politics/5-examples-voter-suppression-arizona-primary/), where the fucking Associated Press calls a winner (not Hillary's fault).

Fuck Anonymous. They make things worse by blaming a Democrat for shit that is clearly Republicans' fault.

ziltoid
03-24-2016, 11:47 AM
Regardless of who is to blame this is a huge fuck up that shouldn't have happened and yet it did.

allegro
03-24-2016, 11:50 AM
Regardless of who is to blame this is a huge fuck up that shouldn't have happened and yet it did.

It's been happening in Arizona for fucking YEARS; discrimination against Latinos and Native Americans, gerrymandering, etc. But blaming HILLARY? That's click-bait and conspiracy theory bullshit, an evil tactic that removes the real blame from the real source.


See this (http://www.thenation.com/article/there-were-five-hour-lines-to-vote-in-arizona-because-the-supreme-court-gutted-the-voting-rights-act/).


Election officials said they reduced the number of polling sites to save money—an ill-conceived decision that severely inconvenienced hundreds of thousands of voters. Previously, Maricopa County would have needed to receive federal approval for reducing the number of polling sites, because Arizona was one of 16 states where jurisdictions with a long history of discrimination had to submit their voting changes under Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act_of_1965). This type of change would very likely have been blocked since minorities make up 40 percent of Maricopa County’s population and reducing the number of polling places would have left minority voters worse off. Section 5 blocked 22 voting changes from taking effect in Arizona since the state was covered under the VRA in 1975 for discriminating against Hispanic and Native American voters.

But after the Supreme Court gutted the VRA in 2013 (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/26/us/supreme-court-ruling.html?_r=0), Arizona could make election changes without federal oversight. The long lines in Maricopa County last night were the latest example of the disastrous consequences of that decision.

SEE ALSO THIS (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/08/06/3688771/gop-celebrates-50th-anniversary-of-the-voting-rights-act-with-coded-call-for-more-voter-suppression/)

onthewall2983
03-24-2016, 02:17 PM
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xla1/v/t1.0-9/12439463_1588127034843517_4984917719945419283_n.jp g?oh=411e3f6876d19c470583278bf08777bc&oe=5783A568

onthewall2983
03-25-2016, 12:44 PM
The National Enquirer is reporting that Ted Cruz had "at least 5" extramarital affairs, (http://gawker.com/national-enquirer-ted-cruz-has-had-at-least-5-extramar-1767002606) which begs the question what institute for the blind does he go cruising?

Jinsai
03-26-2016, 12:17 AM
wait... so not only do I have to see Ted Cruz's face everywhere, but now I have to picture him making an "OH!~" face?

I know if I were Ted Cruz (shudder, AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!) and some tabloid printed a scandalous and untrue story about me, Ted Cruz (AAAAARRRRGG), having sex with hookers (AAAAAAAAAAAH), and I knew it wasn't true... I'd sue the living shit out of them immediately.

Instead... I'm assuming this is true (FUCK FUCK FUCK WAAAAAAAAAAH).

Holy shit... imagine the terrifying sounds that Ted Cruz makes while having sex. Imagine, while looking at his horrible face. I know there's bigger issues on the table here, but the horror is real and extreme. Imagine him biting his lower lip, rolling his eyes back, and making some horrible "mmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeehhhhh" sound. I think I just made myself impotent.

Sallos
03-26-2016, 07:08 AM
i bet he cums really quick

GulDukat
03-26-2016, 08:47 AM
Nate Silver on a possible Clinton-Trump machup.
http://samuel-warde.com/2016/03/nate-silvers-electoral-map-guaranteed-give-republicans-nightmares/

GulDukat
03-26-2016, 08:48 AM
Arizona: Hillary Clinton’s Election Fraud Exposed (http://www.anonews.co/hillary-clintons-election-fraud-exposed/)
Where is there evidence, hard evidence, to indicate that Clinton herself is responsible for long voting lines in AZ? Where is the evidence to support her stealing MA and other states? Are Sanders supporters going to cry foul every time she wins a state? Do Sanders supporters understand that some voters actually prefer Clinton and that Internet memes and huge rallies don't always
translate into winning states?

allegro
03-26-2016, 12:41 PM
From Twitter (https://twitter.com/ShippersUnbound/status/713732675912208385):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CeewFiEW4AADpkw.jpg:large

aggroculture
03-26-2016, 01:03 PM
I hope the Cruz story is true, but given how calculated his rise to power has been - his shutting down the government trying to repeal Obamacare propelled him to national celebrity - I doubt he'd be so careless. But maybe he really does just want to watch the world burn, and himself with it.

sick among the pure
03-26-2016, 01:40 PM
Where is there evidence, hard evidence, to indicate that Clinton herself is responsible for long voting lines in AZ? Where is the evidence to support her stealing MA and other states? Are Sanders supporters going to cry foul every time she wins a state? Do Sanders supporters understand that some voters actually prefer Clinton and that Internet memes and huge rallies don't always
translate into winning states?

I don't think anyone is translating "she won" into "she's cheating". You can think what you will of Sanders supporters (just like internet memes don't represent actual turnout, internet supporters don't represent his supporters as a whole).
I think a lot of the reason people are suspicious of what happened is AZ was a combination of Bill rallying AT a polling place, shutting it down for like an hour, in Mass (which she then won a single delegate more than Sanders) with the fact that in many of the polling places in AZ, at 9pm, workers were coming out to the line saying "polls are closed, Clinton won, go home." (even though 0-1% of the votes had been counted, and if they were in line by 7 they could stay as long as they needed to be able to vote). I would like to know more about how people's political affiliation magically changed so that they couldn't vote.
I don't think she necessarily did anything herself, but am suspicious of the DNC's obviously biased hand in it.
No matter what the base cause, you can't deny there was voter suppression, and some very illegal shit going on somewhere.

allegro
03-26-2016, 05:01 PM
I would like to know more about how people's political affiliation magically changed so that they couldn't vote.
I already (http://www.thenation.com/article/there-were-five-hour-lines-to-vote-in-arizona-because-the-supreme-court-gutted-the-voting-rights-act/) posted a few links about this. (http://reverbpress.com/politics/meet-the-tea-party-republican-behind-arizonas-colossal-voting-clusterfk/).

sick among the pure
03-26-2016, 07:30 PM
I already (http://www.thenation.com/article/there-were-five-hour-lines-to-vote-in-arizona-because-the-supreme-court-gutted-the-voting-rights-act/) posted a few links about this. (http://reverbpress.com/politics/meet-the-tea-party-republican-behind-arizonas-colossal-voting-clusterfk/).
Thanks, I did actually read what you posted. But I feel like "if you don’t put anything it automatically puts ‘party not designated’ which is the same as Independent" doesn't cover a lot of the party affiliation problems they were having. That's like saying "well, it's possible for some of these people to have messed up, so I'm going to say that's what happened to everyone." "Not selecting democrat" when filling out their paperwork was not what caused the problem, because that wasn't the case for thousands of people who were turned away. People either DID select Democrat, or else had been Democrats all their life and never did any paperwork changing anything.

allegro
03-26-2016, 07:43 PM
Thanks, I did actually read what you posted. But I feel like "if you don’t put anything it automatically puts ‘party not designated’ which is the same as Independent" doesn't cover a lot of the party affiliation problems they were having. That's like saying "well, it's possible for some of these people to have messed up, so I'm going to say that's what happened to everyone." "Not selecting democrat" when filling out their paperwork was not what caused the problem, because that wasn't the case for thousands of people who were turned away. People either DID select Democrat, or else had been Democrats all their life and never did any paperwork changing anything.

Yes and that is NOT Clinton's fault; that is the Tea Party Republican head of election Maricopa County Recorder's fault. It's a PLOY to invalidate Democrat votes.

sick among the pure
03-27-2016, 12:18 AM
Yes and that is NOT Clinton's fault; that is the Tea Party Republican head of election Maricopa County Recorder's fault. It's a PLOY to invalidate Democrat votes.
Never said it's Clinton's fault, but how exactly would invalidating democrat votes in the primary help the republicans exactly?

allegro
03-27-2016, 12:48 AM
Never said it's Clinton's fault, but how exactly would invalidating democrat votes in the primary help the republicans exactly?
Apparently, they didn't want anybody except registered Republicans voting. See also gerrymandering, racism, etc. Just a way of reinforcing their red state and suppressing the minority vote (40% of Maricopa County is minority, and most likely either Democrat or Independent).

These are PRIMARIES. In Illinois, for instance, we have an open primary but we have to specify a party and all of our votes have to be for that party for the primary (e.g. if you declare yourself a Democrat at the pol you get a Democrat ballot with all Democrat candidates, only, for everything, President, senate, recorder, state's attorney, representatives, etc.) , and Independent declarants don't get a ballot with any candidates AT ALL, just local referendums.

Arizona has a closed primary and only voters who have pre-registered their affiliation with a particular party can vote in the primary (not the same as registering to vote), which system was majorly fucked up, see this: http://heavy.com/news/2016/03/arizona-election-voter-fraud-bernie-sanders-azelectionfraud-provisional-ballot-maricopa-registration-long-lines/

onthewall2983
03-27-2016, 09:39 AM
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/12472721_990042601051254_1393355018346903331_n.jpg ?oh=af8262c07565aeb6a6530575c3f4e308&oe=574ADE71

Mantra
03-27-2016, 01:58 PM
On the subject of shitty voting procedures...

The whole caucus system needs to go. It's overly complicated and hurts voter turnout. When I showed up to mine, it was the most annoying and poorly managed system. Even basic stuff like parking were a complete nightmare, and I ended up having to park at a laundromat several blocks away because there was no room anywhere. And the lines were totally insane. I could easily see people just giving up and going home when they saw how crazy the whole thing was. It was incredibly off-putting and took a ridiculous amount of time. Even if you just wanted to vote and not stay to participate in all the referendum business, you were looking at more than an hour. And I know several people who couldn't participate because they had to work that night or had some other prior commitment. It would be way better to have a more straight-forward primary voting system, where the polls are open all day and you just quickly stop in when you have a chance. The caucus system as it currently functions is basically an elaborate voter suppression measure. That's why the voter turnout rate is WAY lower in states with a caucus: http://www.electproject.org/2016P

allegro
03-27-2016, 04:31 PM
This bird visiting Bernie Sanders is hilarious (she's been identified as a female house finch (http://www.golocalpdx.com/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-bird-is-identified-by-national-audubon-society))


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jc2TVLoxsDA&feature=youtu.be

Bachy
03-27-2016, 07:46 PM
My sister revealed to me today that my dad is a Trump supporter. Ugh.

Mantra
03-27-2016, 08:36 PM
This bird visiting Bernie Sanders is hilarious (she's been identified as a female house finch (http://www.golocalpdx.com/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign-bird-is-identified-by-national-audubon-society))

haha, what a cool moment.

between this and trump's eagle thing, the birds are really putting in some solid work for this election cycle.

richardp
03-28-2016, 12:19 AM
My sister revealed to me today that my dad is a Trump supporter. Ugh.

My condolences.

sick among the pure
03-28-2016, 01:57 AM
My sister revealed to me today that my dad is a Trump supporter. Ugh.
As is mine. Fortunately, he doesn't vote. My mom actually made a rule no one is to discuss politics when we get together because of it.
Then again, I'm not surprised, he doesn't try to hide his racism or bigotry, and has actually made vague "I wish" mentionings of violence against political leaders and candidates in the past (the kind that get you put on a life-long list).
I just don't understand how so many of our parent's generation, who grew up as legit hippies, have turned to Trump in support. How do you grow up in the 60's and 70's talking about love and peace and coming together to make a community where everyone helps each other and turn around and not only agree, but actually parrot such hatred?

allegro
03-28-2016, 02:59 AM
I just don't understand how so many of our parent's generation, who grew up as legit hippies, have turned to Trump in support. How do you grow up in the 60's and 70's talking about love and peace and coming together to make a community where everyone helps each other and turn around and not only agree, but actually parrot such hatred?
People in the 60s and 70s didn't all agree, it all wasn't one big hippy love fest, relatively few were legit hippies. There was plenty of racism and bigotry and hatred to go around back then, too. LOTS more than now. Nixon won the election, twice, and he was a huge bigot. And go look up "George Wallace." SEE ALSO THIS (http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/index.html).

Really, Trump is just un-P.C. which is shocking to the current consensus. Trump will be 70 years old this year. He was 21 years old in 1967, attending the Wharton School of Business (so he was certainly not at risk of being drafted to Vietnam).

Israel has been using his suggested profiling tactics for over 40 years (http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/in-israel-racial-profiling-doesn-t-warrant-debate-or-apologies-1.261075?v=CE3C6DCEABB16BCDDC404CEBD7A5BF6F). Nothing Trump is saying is new thought; he is ripping off Israeli security measures.

And to say bad things about NAFTA and suggesting shutting down free trade and implementing tariffs is blasphemy to the GOP, so the GOP will do whatever it can to kill Trump.

Trump has foot-in-mouth disease; he says Mexico sends drug dealers and rapists here, and he is partly right when you look at the prison percentages, which doesn't tell the whole story. But the GOP spins that, using their GOP-owned corporate media, to say that Trump says that all Mexicans are rapists.

What you are seeing is the GOP desperate to save itself from total implosion. It can't see that its base wants to hear what Trump is saying, about NAFTA, about Social Security, about China tariffs, about bombing ISIS oil supplies, about illegal immigrants, about bringing back manufacturing jobs, making health care and insurance cheaper etc., and not giving 2 shits about Jesus, corporate taxes, abortion, gay rights, etc.

Trump is appealing to tons of GOP voters, not because they are bigots or racists but because they want to use Trump to send a message, to implode the GOP, to get rid of the Tea Party faction of Congress, to swing the GOP back to the center from the religious right, etc.

So Hillary will win (because the GOP still has no chance of winning and most Democratic voters think Bernie's Socialism = Marxism) and the GOP will still say "it must have been our immigration policy" and it's still questionable if the GOP will actually GET the message that the GOP voters are trying to send.

DigitalChaos
03-28-2016, 06:52 PM
Yes to all of that ^^^ except the tea party bit. Lots of tea party support him because he has the populist and anti-establishment image going on. They see that "RINOs hate him" which makes them love him more.

A lot of these fucks have reverted to their ways of the Bush years too.

allegro
03-28-2016, 10:14 PM
Yes to all of that ^^^ except the tea party bit. Lots of tea party support him because he has the populist and anti-establishment image going on. They see that "RINOs hate him" which makes them love him more.
I'm not talking about the Tea Party leaders (the co-founder jumped ship for Bush (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/16/tea-party-leader-jilts-donald-trump-jeb-bush/?page=all)), I'm talking about the Republican voters who are sick of hardline Tea Party assholes like CRUZ and his Koch-funded Tea Party puppets who refuse to budge on issues and who hold Congress hostage, like shutting down the government during the sequester. Cruz has already complained about Trump's open willingness to compromise and make deals with Democrats.

See this (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/08/donald-trump-said-something-very-interesting-about-dealing-with-democrats-and-we-all-missed-it/).


Listen to what Trump had to say in Saturday's ABC News debate in New Hampshire. Co-moderator Mary Katharine Ham asked Trump whether the deal-making extolled in his book, "The Art of the Deal," would be a liability among Republican voters who "are sick of the deal-making currently going on in Washington."

Trump answered with an unabashed "no."

"A good deal-maker will make great deals," he said.

He went on: "With Congress, you have to get everybody in a room, and you have to get them to agree. But, you have to get them to agree with what you want, and that's part of being a deal-maker. You can't leave the White House, go to Hawaii and play golf for three weeks and be a real deal-maker. It doesn't work that way. You have to get people in, grab them, hug them, kiss them, and get the deal done. But it's got to be the deal that you want."

The message here is clear: Trump's ability to make a deal is so unequivocal that, when he strikes one, Washington will work again. In other words, there's no need to be opposed to compromise, conservatives, when President Trump is in the White House. It'll work out in your favor.

You could argue Trump isn't talking about compromise here so much as convincing the other side to agree to his terms. But still, a GOP front-runner praising the benefits of hugging and kissing members of Congress is a striking contrast to where the Republican electorate stands on compromise — and to some of his competition.

Trump's most formidable opponent is popular precisely because he opposes deals. Cruz has gone to war with leaders in his own party no fewer than five times. On the campaign trail, he brags about the budgets and bills he's stopped in their tracks — albeit most of them just temporarily.

"I will acknowledge that, when I’m in the Senate dining room, I’ve sometimes wondered if I need a food taster," Cruz told a laughing Iowa crowd recently.

Trump, meanwhile, is trying to turn Cruz's obstructionist tendencies into a liability:

"We have a system. The founders created a system that actually is a very good system; it does work," he said on MSNBC's "Morning Joe" less than a week before the Iowa caucus. “But it can’t work if you can get nobody to go along with you, and that’s the problem that you have with Ted Cruz. He’s a guy that nobody likes and nobody trusts, and he is a nasty guy. He says things that are very nasty."

But given the polling, it would seem Trump's new strategy is risky. He's gambling that voters will trust him enough to know his version of deal-making will be much different than what's going on in Washington right now.

The Tea Party leaders claim to care about smaller government and free trade because it will help Wall Street and Big Business which will eventually trickle down to help the working class, but the working class is finally figuring out that this is a total load of shit; and Trump is telling them it's a load of shit because he's actually IN THE ONE PERCENT and he's a businessman and was giving campaign donations to politicians for favors so he's telling voters how it works because he used the system to play the system. Trump ISN'T against "entitlement" programs like Social Security and, in fact, wants to stop calling these programs "entitlement" programs because he says they are EARNED and that we have PAID FOR THEM, contrary to Tea Party (billionaire Koch Brother) standards.

Mantra
03-28-2016, 11:51 PM
hah, allegro, i've been watching the trajectory of your posts in this thread and i'm estimating that in 6 weeks you'll be a full-on trump fan.

just kidding...i very much appreciate your attempts to dial down the anti-trump hysteria and bring some objectivity into the discussion.

i think you might appreciate this article on what trump speaks to in american society. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/03/how_donald_trump_happened_racism_against_barack_ob ama.html it covers similar ground as that awesome atlantic article you posted a while back, addressing white working class poverty, but it also explores the racial dynamics as well. Jamelle Boui is such a solid writer.

As a dude who was raised in a methed out trailer park deep in the rural desert, this article and that atlantic one kind of helped me "get it" when it comes to Trump. What a lot of this article gets at, to me, is the way that racism also harms whites, especially poor whites. Especially in a psychological sort of way. You've got people who, on some level, have internalized the idea that they are "better" for being white, and yet, given the difficult conditions that many are living in, they don't actually feel like they're living the high life. So that's where you get the sense of resentment. Really, for the poorest of whites, they've been sold a lie about their standing in society. It's the old divide and conquer thing that's worked for ages. Get the working class to fight among themselves by telling one group that they're better. King wrote about this years ago, and yet the same shit goes on to this day. And to complicate things even more, people in white poverty are also hearing all these (completely valid and needed) critiques of white privilege and white supremacy, and all the while they're living in these shitty-ass conditions and thinking "This? This is our so-called privilege?" So they end up feeling resentful of anti-racist movements instead of seeing the big picture and realizing that we're all being fucked over by the same assholes.

The GOP is the biggest fucking scam in our nation's history. They get their people all worked up, fill them with all this anger and resentment, and then once they're done capitalizing on that energy for their own greedy agenda, they turn around and completely fuck those same people over.

allegro
03-29-2016, 12:34 AM
G and I are just getting a whole lot of excessive glee watching Trump destroy the GOP. And the GOP deserves every fucking last bit of it.

But, yes, these articles astutely point out that the majority of people on welfare and food stamps in this country are white; Trump speaks to people who have lost factory and manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China and these people aren't the college types; they don't want to go to free college; they just want their jobs back; they just want A JOB. And, really, I think these poor people still want the American Dream: they want to BE Trump.

As far as what the GOP deserves and reaping what it sowed, I think this article pretty much sums it all up (http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/02/how-gop-elite-set-stage-for-donald-trump).

Trump is like the Charlie Sheen of the GOP. "We are gonna have so much winning, you'll get bored with winning (http://www.salon.com/2015/09/09/donald_trump_if_elected_well_have_so_much_winning_ youll_get_bored_with_winning/)." And people are loving that shit. "If you make less than $25,000 per year, you will get to send a note to the IRS that says two words: I WIN (http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-tax-plan-i-win-2015-9)."

http://blog.printrunner.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Winning-Marketing-Attitudes-Charlie-Sheen-Winning2-220x300.jpg

Watching a desperate Mitt Romney trying to save the GOP from Trump is fucking hilarious. What a fucking hypocrite. This is just too good. By the convention, it should be a complete mess. Now if only the idiot Democrats would get out of the way and let the implosion happen.

Marxism would tell you that Capitalism is the biggest scam in history, "the dirty little secret of capitalist exploitation." But I digress ... :)

It's funny that we forget that all those Southerners used to be Democrats until Lyndon B. Johnson started that whole Equal Rights for Negroes thing and then the white Southerners freaked out and swung over to the Republican side. But the South still has the most poverty in the country, by far, and mostly white poverty. So the voters with the most poverty, and the least education, are voting for the guys with the most money. Because of the Bible and because of Negroes.

Mantra
03-30-2016, 01:12 AM
Trump speaks to people who have lost factory and manufacturing jobs to Mexico and China and these people aren't the college types; they don't want to go to free college; they just want their jobs back; they just want A JOB.

Yeah, I think that's why he's been able to make such a stark break with Republicans on the issue of international free trade agreements. Generally speaking, your average Republican politician will speak in favor of those types of things because they're "pro business," and hey, the Republicans always try to be the most business friendly party, celebrating the wonders of the free market and so on. But now we've got Trump going on twitter rants against Kasich because Kasich voted for NAFTA and supports TPP, and Trump's supporters just cheer him on. I suspect that that type of stuff scares the living shit out of the GOP because it has the potential to transform the ideological value system of their voter base. Criticizing free trade agreements is supposed to be the realm of lefties like Chomsky, Sanders, etc, not the front runner of the Republican party. Trump's throwing a number of sacred Republican economic issues out the window and replacing them with stuff that's actually more appealing to working class conservatives, especially when compared to the traditional dogshit the Republicans have been offering up for decades now. And yet he's not coming across as "soft" or "tolerant" or "liberal" in an overall sense, because his whole political persona is about being brash and angry and extreme. He can flirt with universal health coverage and still managing to brand himself as the most over the top right-winger in the country, and it's like, how is the GOP establishment supposed to deal with that shit?


By the convention, it should be a complete mess.

Yeah, plus the drama over the gun shit has been both funny and horrifying to read about. They're pushing to bring their guns to the RNC, and they're saying it's hypocritical to not allow it since all three candidates claim to be such big second amendment supporters and Ohio's an open carry state. But the secret service banned them for obvious fucking reasons. Like that's all we need, a repeat of the Chicago fights, only this time with guns in the mix. Get a bunch of immature Bernie bros and amateur activists from the local campus to show up and start screaming "racist" at all the rage-fueled Trump supporters carrying assault rifles, and then watch the bloodshed begin. So now the RNC is in the awkward position of having to deny these people their god-given second amendment rights. Shit is hilarious. But I hope the gun nuts will just let it go, because if they keep escalating the issue and certain people start to feel like they need to take a stand on principle, I could easily picture shit hitting the fan and people end up getting hurt and/or killed. The situation is amusing, but also has the potential to be a complete nightmare.

thevoid99
03-30-2016, 02:13 AM
They took my job! Derka-der!!!!

DigitalChaos
03-30-2016, 10:57 AM
Yeah, I think that's why he's been able to make such a stark break with Republicans on the issue of international free trade agreements. Generally speaking, your average Republican politician will speak in favor of those types of things because they're "pro business," and hey, the Republicans always try to be the most business friendly party, celebrating the wonders of the free market and so on. But now we've got Trump going on twitter rants against Kasich because Kasich voted for NAFTA and supports TPP, and Trump's supporters just cheer him on. I suspect that that type of stuff scares the living shit out of the GOP because it has the potential to transform the ideological value system of their voter base. Criticizing free trade agreements is supposed to be the realm of lefties like Chomsky, Sanders, etc, not the front runner of the Republican party. Trump's throwing a number of sacred Republican economic issues out the window and replacing them with stuff that's actually more appealing to working class conservatives, especially when compared to the traditional dogshit the Republicans have been offering up for decades now. And yet he's not coming across as "soft" or "tolerant" or "liberal" in an overall sense, because his whole political persona is about being brash and angry and extreme. He can flirt with universal health coverage and still managing to brand himself as the most over the top right-winger in the country, and it's like, how is the GOP establishment supposed to deal with that shit?





Don't forget about his foreign policy being much less warhawkish than the usual candidate, even with his "turn it to glass" comments.


Want a fun exercise? Compare these stances against Hillary. People are in so much denial that Trump is left of her on quite a few topics.

allegro
03-30-2016, 12:28 PM
I'm still voting for Hillary because of SCOTUS. Although, her bellicose shit makes me nuts.

Jinsai
03-30-2016, 01:42 PM
watching Anderson Cooper tell Donald Trump, to his face, that he acts like a bratty five-year-old (and Trump's blustering response that more or less confirmed the allegation) was simultaneously priceless and a little infuriating... No matter how classically you shut this pos down, he bounces right back with the clear inability to actually process that he may be less than flawless and the greatest shit ever.