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Jinsai
11-22-2016, 12:22 AM
Not to be presumptuous about the "scope" of the office...

But if I were president elect and the Klan showed up to celebrate my victory? HOLY SHIT!!!

I would spend every following day assuring the American people that I was looking for those misguided motherfuckers, who somehow completely misunderstood where I was coming from. Because that's the most horrifying shit that can happen when you win an election - see the Klan celebrate.

I wouldn't be sending out stupid bratty tweets about how the cast of Hamilton shouldn't have politely asked my running mate (known for suppressing civil rights) to please consider the message that the play apparently conveys. I don't know what it conveys... I tried listening to a couple songs and gave up.

But if I was president elect, I wouldn't be doing that shit right now at all, or complaining about how SNL isn't giving you "equal treatment."

If my job right now was to be president, I would rush to deal with this fucking KKK endorsement. I would fucking smash it. I would say to them "you are not welcome, you are not represented by your government. This government does NOT welcome your appreciation. We fucking reject it. Fuck you."

And then I would make some fucking sensible appointments that actually met with people on the other side of the aisle on reasonable issues, and we could be a society that is not run by the kid from the movie The Toy.

Jinsai
11-22-2016, 01:01 AM
Why aren't the liberals really pissed about this (https://theintercept.com/2016/11/18/obama-refuses-to-pardon-edward-snowden-trumps-new-cia-pick-wants-him-dead/)?

I am. I don't know why the others aren't in larger part. They don't know what Pompeo means for the fate of Snowden... either that or they don't care what he stands for. He's a hero, and he's an inspiring concept we should aspire to. I think he stands for something more honest than anything I've seen in politics.

If Obama pardons Snowden, he will end his legacy on an incredibly powerful note regarding the notions we hold true to the efficacy of our checks and balances. Snowden, and other whistleblowers, are heroes to democracy in the modern world. The truth cannot survive in a modern democracy without whistle blowers. Nothing he did could be argued to have been for selfish ulterior motives.

Cyber espionage is a different issue... Snowden is letting you know that your constitutional rights are being violated. You had a right to know it.

onthewall2983
11-22-2016, 02:11 AM
I know it's very wrong, but somehow the idea of people like Sarah Palin and Rick Perry possibly being beholden to his damn children gives me a miniscule amount of smug satisfaction.

hellospaceboy
11-22-2016, 07:38 AM
But if I were president elect and the Klan showed up to celebrate my victory? HOLY SHIT!!!

I would spend every following day assuring the American people that I was looking for those misguided motherfuckers, who somehow completely misunderstood where I was coming from. Because that's the most horrifying shit that can happen when you win an election - see the Klan celebrate.


Not if your daddy was in the KKK...

Sutekh
11-22-2016, 08:18 AM
and we're slowly discovering that Trump is going to make America great again.

By hiring a guy who wouldn't qualify for junior desk officer in MI5 as the director of the CIA during the absolute worst period of international terrorism in human history?

Do you think maybe you're getting a little drawn in by the hype here.. even if you're optimistic, it's too early to tell and the early signs aren't great

How do you slice this CIA appointment? To me it seems catastrophic

Louie_Cypher
11-22-2016, 09:12 AM
if you raise your handand shout "Sieg Heil" you're a Nazi. When you have sex with a goat, you're not an "alt farmer," you're a goat fucker.
-louie #oh,my

0 replies7,128 retweets11,310 likes

onthewall2983
11-22-2016, 09:46 AM
Influential Senate Republicans hoping to throw a wrench in Trump's plans. (http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-congress-senate-trump-idUSKBN13H111)

Deepvoid
11-22-2016, 09:55 AM
Kellyanne Conway confirmed that Trump will not pursue Clinton investigation. (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/307153-top-aide-trump-wont-pursue-clinton-investigation)

Breitbart is having another meltdown.

Edit: His supported are trying to spin this by saying it's a tactic so Obama doesn't see the need to pardon her. This is epic.

allegate
11-22-2016, 11:17 AM
I think someone in the Cubs operation has a gigantic voodoo doll that pulled all goodwill from 2016 to go into the win. Bowie, Prince, Rickman, the election. Shit. it's the only thing that makes sense.

allegro
11-22-2016, 11:21 AM
I think someone in the Cubs operation has a gigantic voodoo doll that pulled all goodwill from 2016 to go into the win. Bowie, Prince, Rickman, the election. Shit. it's the only thing that makes sense.

Ummmmm not likely ... (http://chicago.suntimes.com/news/sweet-cubs-ricketts-up-for-top-spot-in-trump-administration/)

allegro
11-22-2016, 02:41 PM
I love Rand Paul.
Rand Paul called Social Security "a Ponzi Scheme". http://www.dscc.org/press-release/rand-paul-im-no-wimp-ill-cut-social-security-benefits-seniors-need/

And he's full of shit: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/06/22/rand-pauls-ridiculous-story-of-an-elderly-man-imprisoned-for-dirt-on-his-land/

Jinsai
11-22-2016, 03:06 PM
Too bad Dems used to trash him for being super regressive because he believed in state's rights.... which is suddenly fashionable with the Dems right now.

hmmmm.... You must hang with different liberals, unless you're making a joke about the CA secession thing

allegro
11-22-2016, 03:37 PM
He's right. I won't see a penny of social security that I've been paying for my entire life. No, technically it's not a Ponzi scheme, but the end result is similar.

This is an interesting article. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/10/AR2011031005932.html)

The money we have been paying gets spent the SECOND we pay it. There IS NO "fund."

This Chicken Little shit is just that ... Chicken Little. Also, they should raise the fucking CAP and collect more money. I've been paying into it for FORTY YEARS and I'm still gonna get shit (I won't even attempt to collect Social Security unless my husband dies and we no longer receive his pension; he did not pay into Social Security and therefore will never collect it), but at least I was smart enough to put money away in my own retirement funds. But there are people out there who either didn't, or never made enough money to put money away. There should be a cap where people who make more than a certain amount CAN'T EVEN COLLECT Social Security. if you have more than a certain level of assets, no Social Security for you. There are ways to fix this, but nobody is interested.

Deepvoid
11-22-2016, 04:07 PM
Trump now has an open mind regarding the Paris climate agreement. (http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/307211-trump-i-have-an-open-mind-on-paris-climate-pact)

He is literally doing 180s across the board.

joplinpicasso
11-22-2016, 05:05 PM
Trump now has an open mind regarding the Paris climate agreement. (http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/307211-trump-i-have-an-open-mind-on-paris-climate-pact)

He is literally doing 180s across the board.

All the black is really white (if you believe it).

onthewall2983
11-22-2016, 05:16 PM
Hopefully he can be convinced that it's a matter of national security, and maybe more importantly, he can see that there's good reason nearly everyone else is in on it.

Jinsai
11-22-2016, 06:19 PM
I was listening to right wing talk radio in the car earlier... They were talking about how the press meeting was conducted like an episode of the apprentice, with him basically chastising networks in a "you're fired" kind of way... And how that was a good thing.. Just use Twitter!

yeah, Twitter and infowars... What could possibly go wrong with this

Amaro
11-22-2016, 08:59 PM
Who in the goddamn fuck is this subhuman dumpster grime Richard Spencer? I am sickened with rage. ACTUAL RAGE.

aggroculture
11-22-2016, 11:37 PM
well, this is happening: http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/22/politics/hillary-clinton-challenge-results/index.html
it will probably go nowhere, I suppose

Frozen Beach
11-23-2016, 03:39 AM
Who in the goddamn fuck is this subhuman dumpster grime Richard Spencer? I am sickened with rage. ACTUAL RAGE.
I'm not even sure the alt right even know who he is. I've never heard of him before that Atlantic video. None of the alt right accounts I follow on twitter or the accounts just accused of being alt right have ever mentioned him. Even some have expressed confusion as to who the hell he is.

also, I find the following funny

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-disavows-alt-group-condemn/story?id=43723904&cid=clicksource_4380645_1_hero_headlines_headlines _hed (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-disavows-alt-group-condemn/story?id=43723904&cid=clicksource_4380645_1_hero_headlines_headlines _hed)

Sarah K
11-23-2016, 09:53 AM
Nikki Haley who has... zero foreign policy experience is appointed at UN Ambassador.

Clinton surpasses Trump by 2,000,000+ votes.

Crazy.

Sarah K
11-23-2016, 10:20 AM
Also, here is an interview with that dude who was leading that Nazi meeting the other day.

He says the Nazi salutes were done because of fun, irony, and exuberance.

https://www.facebook.com/rolandsmartinfanpage/videos/10154189796407831/

Louie_Cypher
11-23-2016, 12:02 PM
good job anerikkka http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/standing-rock-sioux-tear-gas-thanksgiving_us_583496a3e4b000af95ece35d?wjz1i201z kpf8t1emi
-louie

allegro
11-23-2016, 12:04 PM
good job anerikkka http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/standing-rock-sioux-tear-gas-thanksgiving_us_583496a3e4b000af95ece35d?wjz1i201z kpf8t1emi
-louie

See also this thread (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/4264-Dakota-Access-Pipeline-DAPL-Protests).

Sarah K
11-23-2016, 02:40 PM
Nope. Absolutely not. They are there at a "white nationalist" meeting... They are doing exactly what they are there for.

Deepvoid
11-23-2016, 02:55 PM
Do you not see how that is possible? Do you not see how it would be done in a mocking, ironic, and inflammatory way after being constantly called nazis, white supremacists, etc


edit: this Roland Martin guy is fun

So they're doing Nazi salutes to mock the people who are labeling them Nazis? Yeah that makes a whole lot of sense.

And on a totally random note, how does a country like the US is still counting votes 2 weeks after the election. I'm pretty sure that's not normal.

elevenism
11-23-2016, 05:11 PM
My brother worked at all the democratic speeches in Colorado, doing sound and lighting.
He is visiting and telling me all about it. He shook hand with Berine Sanders.
He has a bunch of INSANELY close pics of bernie and even some video of bill.
He rubbed shoulders with secret service agents.
I am so fucking proud of him. I'll get the pics before he leaves.

Sutekh
11-23-2016, 05:20 PM
Here is something to punctuate my last paragraph and tie it back into the global pattern.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161121/e9edfd07447418f16a6825d7581d8523.png

It's a jpeg not a manifesto, and it is extremely context specific - this isn't something put out on billboards

Within context ;

"What we have seen in Britain, the US and elsewhere is the rejection of a failed economic consensus and a governing elite which has not listened.

This is a corporate as well as a political failure.

And after the latest global wakeup call from the US the need for a real alternative to a failed economic and political system could not be clearer.

So those of us who want to see an open, tolerant, more prosperous Britain must make common cause in the battle for that future for our country.

It’s a future that must be based on us working together to achieve social justice and economic renewal rather than sowing fear and division.

Every business needs a plan for a stable and successful future.

But following the British people’s decision to leave the European Union, businesses have been plunged into huge uncertainty by a Government which has no plan at all.

I believe when it comes to Government there’s bad intervention and good intervention.

Bad intervention wants to name and shame you on the basis of how many foreign workers you employ.

Bad intervention wants to punish you with a shambolic Brexit that limits our ability to trade with the world’s largest trading bloc on our doorstep.
As Carolyn has said, a Brexit deal without tariff-free access to the Single Market would ‘close the door’ on an open economy.

Bad intervention also covers an international trade secretary who says, and I’m quoting, so please don’t attribute this to me, “You’re fat, lazy and spending too much time on the golf course!”

...So I want to set out the framework for a new settlement with business.
First and foremost, a Labour government will prioritise investing in our economy.

To support investment-led growth Labour will put a National Investment Bank at the centre of our plan to rebuild and transform Britain.

Our National Investment Bank will deliver long term strategic investment in our under-powered infrastructure and provide the patient finance that our businesses need across the country.

Who can be content with seeing the US and Germany investing in cutting edge and green technologies while Britain lags behind?

So we agree with the CBI in your call for this Government to get going on major infrastructure projects.
As well as delivering HS2, we desperately need to improve links from East to West across the North.
And we cannot stand by while a shortage of affordable housing leads to suffering and insecurity and for so many people.

Housebuilding has dropped to its lowest level since the 1920s.

So Labour would fund a dramatic increase in the number of affordable homes to rent and buy.

Our country’s history is based on individual ingenuity and collective endeavour.

But Britain now spends less on research as a share of national income than France, Germany, the US and China.

The next Labour government will support innovation by aiming to meet the OECD target of three percent of GDP a year on all research and development a move the CBI also backs.

Last Thursday I visited Airbus in Stevenage, a site at the cutting edge of the design and manufacture of advanced satellites and telecoms systems, building the Exo Mars Rover and the Rosetta Space Probe.

But they’re also investing in Britain’s future by increasing the number of apprentices and doubling the number of graduates they have taken on this year.
Britain is a country rich in talent and potential.
We know that recruiting talented people with the right skills is a priority for businesses.
That’s why we’ve committed to a comprehensive National Education Service at the heart of our programme for government to deliver high quality education for all throughout our lives.
I would argue that this common ground between us on infrastructure , investing in people and skills, R&D and housebuilding are all examples of common-good intervention"


What is incoherent about this... infrastructure and services improved via funding generated by a nationally owned investment bank, as opposed to endless cuts and inefficient privatisation

Here is the whole speech

https://labourlist.org/2016/11/the-fourth-industrial-revolution-is-being-powered-by-the-internet-of-things-and-big-data-to-develop-cyber-physical-systems-and-smart-factories-corbyn-speech-to-the-cbi/

Aladdinsanity
11-23-2016, 06:45 PM
So they're, like, indie Nazis? "Alt-right" totally makes sense now.

Give me a fucking break.

allegro
11-23-2016, 08:04 PM
^^ wtf does that have to do with the presidential election?

Have you SEEN this video that Aladdinsanity posted in the other thread?? IT ABSOLUTELY HAS TO DO WITH THE ELECTION (and the state of party politics in this country)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZP7qRyaNgs&feature=youtu.be

Khrz
11-23-2016, 08:45 PM
So they're, like, indie Nazis? "Alt-right" totally makes sense now.

Give me a fucking break.

Hipster nazis. Their swastika tattoo is totally sarcastic man...

Dra508
11-23-2016, 10:08 PM
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/reveal/id886009669?mt=2&i=377717595

Here's your white supremacist for you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jinsai
11-24-2016, 12:15 AM
I know this is only tangentially related to the election, but David Cross, as a response to this election, has pledged to donate and match the proceeds of the new CD to the ACLU. Ten dollars gets you a CD and a twenty dollar donation to the ACLU. I know... I can't believe it either (https://officialdavidcross.com/blogs/press/i-know-i-cant-believe-it-either)

elevenism
11-24-2016, 04:41 AM
I know this is only tangentially related to the election, but David Cross, as a response to this election, has pledged to donate and match the proceeds of the new CD to the ACLU. Ten dollars gets you a CD and a twenty dollar donation to the ACLU. I know... I can't believe it either (https://officialdavidcross.com/blogs/press/i-know-i-cant-believe-it-either)Damn, the autographed copy is sold out.

neorev
11-24-2016, 05:09 AM
So after experts from election lawyers to computer scientists have been saying possible voter manipulation and hacking occurred, Green Party nominee Jill Stein took it into her own hands to create a fundraiser for election integrity with the goal of raising enough money to do a recount in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. These three key states, if proven Hillary actually won through a recount, would actually make Hillary our next President. This story has been gaining traction.

Especially since, in under 12 hours, Jill Stein was able to raise over $2.5 million!

The main goal is $4.5 million to cover lawyer fees, but they expect it to cost around $6-7 million altogether when you include covering the officials needed for the recount. Hillary supporters better bow to this woman. The DNC has been sitting on their ass and has said they wanted a "smooth transition" for Trump and weren't looking to push for the recount. But it's time the DNC, well the Green Party in this case, played it tough like the Republicans always do.

So Hillary supporters and anyone simply frightened of a Trump presidency, whether you're American or not, need to get behind this fundraiser.

Donate here...
https://jillstein.nationbuilder.com/recount

Oh, and Hillary's popular vote lead has reached over 2 million votes.

Exocet
11-24-2016, 05:52 AM
The Alt Reich...is probably the 'New Right'....seems people around world, wont tolerate the dull, flip flopping, vauge, useless, reserved civility of the Mitt Romneys, the Reagans, the Bush dynasty...it will never go back to that....people want someone more direct someone who bangs their fists on the table...1980-2016...its over.
Its a totally different era now.

Its almost like people want Authoritarian leaders...which is slightly worrying.

onthewall2983
11-24-2016, 06:02 AM
It'll never happen. Trump will be neutered by everything from the House and Senate cutting him off at the knees to his business interests causing considerable and obvious conflict to his presidency. He is what people always wanted, someone with the blustery confidence to say he can change everything. That will only add to their disappointment when he doesn't, and it'll go back to being business as usual for the GOP.

Khrz
11-24-2016, 07:55 AM
It'll never happen. Trump will be neutered by everything from the House and Senate cutting him off at the knees to his business interests causing considerable and obvious conflict to his presidency. He is what people always wanted, someone with the blustery confidence to say he can change everything. That will only add to their disappointment when he doesn't, and it'll go back to being business as usual for the GOP.

Or you know, they'll just reframe whatever happens to fit their narrative and Trump will end up being this great misunderstood leader who fought for what is right against all odds.
And you know everyone in the western world is already analysing his victory and trying to retool it. Politically, the USA just used the nuclear bomb when everyone deemed themselves too civilised to stoop down to that level. And now everyone wants to play.

tony.parente
11-24-2016, 12:59 PM
I haven't read the last few pages of the thread but the fools thinking that an audit is going to change literally anything is hysterical. That $2,000,000 that Jill raised could have done some actual good, like maybe sending some aid up to standing rock to help out those protesters? Dumb.

Deepvoid
11-24-2016, 01:11 PM
I haven't read the last few pages of the thread but the fools thinking that an audit is going to change literally anything is hysterical. That $2,000,000 that Jill raised could have done some actual good, like maybe sending some aid up to standing rock to help out those protesters? Dumb.

The only thing I saw that had me raised an eyebrow was a certain county in WI, which total of votes cast didn't match the total of votes counted by something like 3,000.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyBw9KrVIAEL3Sl.jpg

neorev
11-24-2016, 06:04 PM
Problem with saying this amount of money could have gone to something else like Standing Rock or Flint's water supply, if Jill Stein came out with a fundraiser for any of those things would it have actually raised that much money that fast? You can say after the fact that this money could be used for whatever cause you prefer, but the real issue is if this amount of money would have been raised if the fundraiser was initially for that cause. I honestly don't believe it would. As terrible as Standing Rock and Flint's water is, sadly I don't think people would have responded as much and as fast as they did the fundraiser was for something else. Sure, she may have raised a few bucks over time, but it's all just assumptions that people would have actually donated this much money for another cause.

allegro
11-24-2016, 10:36 PM
The Constitution has a deadline for a recount, 2nd week of December it has to be completed, don't know exact date for this election but it's always around that period. Per the Constitution. That's set in stone, as is the Inauguration date. The only good that could come out of this is an investigation to avoid this in the future.

allegro
11-26-2016, 08:10 PM
Noam Chomksy weighed in (love love him, a true treasure)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8OFhzSO4hg

allegro
11-26-2016, 08:13 PM
Interesting. Interesting as to "why" Melania has opted to keep Barron back in NYC at his private school for the remainder of the year if this is true.

Melania has chosen "cyberbullying" as her main focus as First Lady.

I hope they can protect him if this is true, maybe it can be educational.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZAd5Pu9iw4

Baphomette
11-27-2016, 01:42 AM
The Constitution has a deadline for a recount, 2nd week of December it has to be completed, don't know exact date for this election but it's always around that period. Per the Constitution. That's set in stoneWould this be the Equal Protection Clause?

allegro
11-27-2016, 02:26 AM
Would this be the Equal Protection Clause?

No, Title 3 of the U.S. Code (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_3_of_the_United_States_Code) and Article 2 of the U.S. Constitution (https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleii). The date that the electors vote is always the first Monday after the second Wednesday in December (https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/roles.html) (this year it is December 19th).

Jinsai
11-27-2016, 03:19 AM
Interesting. Interesting as to "why" Melania has opted to keep Barron back in NYC at his private school for the remainder of the year if this is true.

Melania has chosen "cyberbullying" as her main focus as First Lady.

I hope they can protect him if this is true, maybe it can be educational.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZAd5Pu9iw4

Propping him up as a poster-boy for a pet vanity cause is the opposite of protecting him.

Jinsai
11-27-2016, 03:22 AM
also, to hear the wife of our first Twitter president to declare her focus to be on people being nice to each other online? COME ON

allegro
11-27-2016, 12:39 PM
Propping him up as a poster-boy for a pet vanity cause is the opposite of protecting him.
The Trumps have never discussed anything about their son Barron, other than some pretty small details about his hobbies. The above video is from people (strangers) who have observed Barron's behavior (and are reacting to the bullying comments that people are making about Barron).

Every First Lady is supposed to have some kind of "agenda" (Michele Obama's was childhood obesity); Melania has chosen cyberbullying, probably directed at children. I saw an interviewer ask Melania if she approves of her husband's actions on Twitter, etc., and she said "no" but he doesn't listen to her.

I merely said that I **HOPE** they can protect him if he does in fact have Autism Spectrum Disorder and the news gets out; people can be really fucking mean about that shit. Hell, they're mean to kids of Presidents, in general. People were BRUTAL to Chelsea Clinton, UGH. And Amy Carter, UGH.

onthewall2983
11-27-2016, 02:00 PM
Hell, they're mean to kids of Presidents, in general. People were BRUTAL to Chelsea Clinton, UGH. And Amy Carter, UGH.

They being Republicans. As far as I can remember nobody was as bad on Reagan or Bush 43's kids.

Frozen Beach
11-27-2016, 02:07 PM
Didn't people use to make fun of Bush's daughters for supposedly being alcoholics?

Jinsai
11-27-2016, 02:12 PM
Didn't people use to make fun of Bush's daughters for supposedly being alcoholics? I remember some isolated scandal that pretty much vanished instantly.

Frozen Beach
11-27-2016, 02:24 PM
I remember some isolated scandal that pretty much vanished instantly.
I admit, I don't give enough of a shit about Bush's daughters to be sure I remember 100%, but I remember comedians and comedy shows grilling the hell out of them for it rather harshly. I think Madtv and Robot Chicken did skits about them, Saturday Night Live might have as well. It's been such a long time though.

allegro
11-27-2016, 02:49 PM
Didn't people use to make fun of Bush's daughters for supposedly being alcoholics?

BYup (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3gBZK4QrWY). And the press thought that Ron Reagan was gay because he was a ballet dancer or whatever (he's not gay).

allegro
11-27-2016, 02:51 PM
Meanwhile, this is cracking me up this morning:

What it says about Trump that his neckties are too long (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/zorn/ct-trump-neckties-pronunciation-perspec-zorn-1127-md-20161125-column.html)

"What in the name of Macy's clearance aisle is the deal with his tie?" :D:D :D :D :D

"too-long ties are often used for comic effect, and unless your name is Krusty and you work at the Big Top, they are generally frowned upon in the workplace." :p :p :p :p

http://www.trbimg.com/img-583883db/turbine/ct-zorn-trump-ties--web-aj-jpg-20161125/750/750x422

Baphomette
11-27-2016, 08:51 PM
They being Republicans.Nah, it wasn't just them.

Deepvoid
11-27-2016, 09:04 PM
Trump declared himself the winner of the popular vote because you know, millions of illegals and dead people voted for Clinton.

Jinsai
11-27-2016, 09:37 PM
Trump declared himself the winner of the popular vote because you know, millions of illegals and dead people voted for Clinton.

Coincidentally, Info Wars and various other fake news sites are sharing this evidence that he's sorta vaguely tweeting about, so if you want to know more about this shit, just tune in to the Alex Jones show.

Jinsai
11-27-2016, 09:52 PM
Also, I'm sorry, it's just adding the farcical nature of this whole thing to have the wife of the biggest troll on earth try to spearhead an anti-cyberbullying movement. That's some meta-trolling. What's next, is Pence's wife going to start up a struggle to maintain the separation of church and state?

This country just elected a bratty misogynist who, early in his campaign mocked a disabled reporter... who made up derogatory nick names for all of his opponents... Little Rubio, Lyin Ted, Crooked Hillary... who made fun of beauty contestants and supermodels for gaining weight... He becomes president, and now his wife wants to crusade against bullying? Believe her intentions to be in the right spirit if you must, but the whole concept of that is stranger than most satirical fiction.

elevenism
11-28-2016, 11:28 AM
So i told you guys my little brother did audio and lighting for all the democratic events in Colorado-Bernie, Bill, Hillary, even Chelsea.
He got to hand bernie the mic at one event, and he shook his hand and said "Howyadoin" all gruff like and whatnot. He took Trump winning the election pretty fucking hard, because he actually worked his ass off on the democratic campaign.
Anyway i am so fucking proud of him. I will stop gushing about it. Here is one of the many photos he took, showing how close to the action he was.
http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a609/tylerlankford11/bernie1_zpszttohri3.jpg (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/tylerlankford11/media/bernie1_zpszttohri3.jpg.html)

allegro
11-28-2016, 03:15 PM
I wonder if Trump is really going to choose Tulsi Gabbard as Secretary of State.

allegro
11-28-2016, 03:21 PM
Also, I'm sorry, it's just adding the farcical nature of this whole thing to have the wife of the biggest troll on earth try to spearhead an anti-cyberbullying movement.
I think she is centering it on the cyberbullying of children.

She said: "It is never OK when a 12-year-old girl or boy is mocked, bullied or attacked. It is terrible when it happens on the playground, and it is absolutely unacceptable when it is done by someone with no name hiding on the internet. We have to find a better way to talk to each other. We must find better ways to honor and support the basic goodness of our children, especially in social media. It will be one of the main focuses of my work, if I am privileged enough to become your first lady."

Face it, she can't control her husband. There is no fucking way. It's ridiculous for us to think she can. But, if she can try to "give back" by doing some good by focusing on children not doing that same anonymous bullying shit online, then she's only doing the best she can. To denigrate her for choosing this cause, perhaps IN SPITE of her husband being a giant troll, is being just as sexist as Trump. She's leading by example. There is nothing wrong with that. it's a good cause; perhaps she's the BEST person to lead the charge, considering her bully husband; she is sending a message: "what he's doing IS NOT OKAY."

Jinsai
11-28-2016, 06:42 PM
and isn't the president, in some general way, supposed to be a role model figure for children in as much as their perceptions and attitudes truly matter to a discussion about partisan showboating?

We'll see though I guess... It will be an interesting dichotomy to have Melania loudly decrying to children that what her husband is doing is unacceptable behavior. It would be an odd way to frame him as a negative role model. I'd get the feeling that Trump isn't the sort of person who would really appreciate that.

allegro
11-28-2016, 07:59 PM
and isn't the president, in some general way, supposed to be a role model figure for children in as much as their perceptions and attitudes truly matter to a discussion about partisan showboating?

We'll see though I guess... It will be an interesting dichotomy to have Melania loudly decrying to children that what her husband is doing is unacceptable behavior. It would be an odd way to frame him as a negative role model. I'd get the feeling that Trump isn't the sort of person who would really appreciate that.

I don't think she is going to bring him up; the topic she is focusing on his children, specifically, so she'll likely be talking to children about children, in schools, etc. and not about adults. Maybe The Donald will learn something. Although, really, it's too late for him, he's too far gone. Most adults are. Hence why she is focusing on children?

I didn't say she had to bring The Donald up as an example; but, come on, he obviously IS one, although maybe only to adults; I'm not sure how many 10-yr-olds have been paying attention to Trump's Twitter account.

hellospaceboy
11-28-2016, 08:22 PM
I'm not sure how many 10-yr-olds have been paying attention to Trump's Twitter account.

While this is somewhat anecdotal knowledge, my understanding is that in schools the "Trump language/attitude" is definitely felt. Children might not follow Twitter, but they hear their parents and the news talk, and the Donald is not only a bully online, but in real life too... from giving belittling nicknames to all his opponents, from Little Rubio to Crooked Hillary and Pocahontas, talking about Muslims and Mexicans like dirt, etc... So yes, I'd say if children know anything about him it has to do with his behavior more than anything else.

botley
11-29-2016, 02:05 AM
While this is somewhat anecdotal knowledge, my understanding is that in schools the "Trump language/attitude" is definitely felt. Children might not follow Twitter, but they hear their parents and the news talk, and the Donald is not only a bully online, but in real life too... from giving belittling nicknames to all his opponents, from Little Rubio to Crooked Hillary and Pocahontas, talking about Muslims and Mexicans like dirt, etc... So yes, I'd say if children know anything about him it has to do with his behavior more than anything else.
Mommy, when I grow up can I be famous like President Trump and grab women by the pussy?

allegro
11-29-2016, 12:33 PM
Mommy, when I grow up can I be famous like President Trump and grab women by the pussy?

Or, just be a member of the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Or just go for "Rock Star" in general. Maybe a protégé of Gene Simmons, Ted Nugent, etc. etc. Or, R Kelly if you wanna pee on women. Or, go the whole 9 yards and go Dr. Dre (http://gawker.com/heres-whats-missing-from-straight-outta-compton-me-and-1724735910).

implanted_microchip
11-29-2016, 12:59 PM
BTW everybody while we were slapfighting over Melania and cyberbullying, good ol' Donny T. came out and said anyone who burns a flag should be arrested or have their citizenship revoked. Y'know, like an unconstitutional stance or something.

botley
11-29-2016, 01:05 PM
Or, just be a member of the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Or just go for "Rock Star" in general. Maybe a protégé of Gene Simmons, Ted Nugent, etc. etc. Or, R Kelly if you wanna pee on women. Or, go the whole 9 yards and go Dr. Dre (http://gawker.com/heres-whats-missing-from-straight-outta-compton-me-and-1724735910).
I make no excuses for the actions of those reprehensible men or anyone else who perpetuates rape culture and violence against women; but mayyyyybe kids are more likely to hear about the President than a bunch of dad-approved musicians?

Frozen Beach
11-29-2016, 01:09 PM
BTW everybody while we were slapfighting over Melania and cyberbullying, good ol' Donny T. came out and said anyone who burns a flag should be arrested or have their citizenship revoked. Y'know, like an unconstitutional stance or something.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_Protection_Act_of_2005
"was a proposed United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States) federal law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_law) introduced by Senator (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate) Bob Bennett (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Bennett_(politician)) (R (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States))-UT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah)), with original co-sponsor Senator Hillary Clinton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton) (D (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_(United_States))-NY (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York))"
This can't be coincidental.

allegro
11-29-2016, 01:12 PM
I make no excuses for the actions of those reprehensible men or anyone else who perpetuates rape culture and violence against women; but mayyyyybe kids are more likely to hear about the President than a bunch of dad-approved musicians?

Okay, yeah, let's just give it up and tell Melania that her focus as First Lady should be, as it was for about 30 other First Ladies: "Childhood Literacy." Just take the easy way out, copy most other First Ladies before her, don't wanna do anything that upsets people or means anything to her personally, just fall in line and do whatever the other girls did, stay behind her big mouth husband, shut up. Make sense, really. She has to shut up all the time, already, the rest of the country can just tell her to shut up, too. She must be used to it by now, anyway. First Ladies are totally useless ornaments, anyway.

onthewall2983
11-29-2016, 01:26 PM
I think Trump after four years will look like Sumner Redstone. Not even kidding on this one.

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2015/11/26/business/26VIACOM/26VIACOM-master180.jpg

botley
11-29-2016, 01:39 PM
Okay, yeah, let's just give it up and tell Melania that her focus as First Lady should be, as it was for about 30 other First Ladies: "Childhood Literacy." Just take the easy way out, copy most other First Ladies before her, don't wanna do anything that upsets people or means anything to her personally, just fall in line and do whatever the other girls did, stay behind her big mouth husband, shut up. Make sense, really. She has to shut up all the time, already, the rest of the country can just tell her to shut up, too. She must be used to it by now, anyway. First Ladies are totally useless ornaments, anyway.
If this is truly a cause she believes in, I'm all for it. First Lady is a ridiculous position in the first place, like a Feudal system hangover, so she may as well do what she wants with the attention. Hillary ran for Senate and won while her husband was still President. If Melania does good work on combating cyberbullying, that's great, but it's still a bit like Laura Bush who was a school librarian and advocate for expansion of literacy abroad while her husband starved his own domestic education bill of adequate funding at the Federal level.

allegro
11-29-2016, 02:07 PM
Hillary ran for Senate and won while her husband was still President.
Yes, but he was a dead duck and they were being evicted, hence why they bought that house in NY.


like Laura Bush who was a school librarian and advocate for expansion of literacy abroad while her husband starved his own domestic education bill of adequate funding at the Federal level.
I believe that was Congress's fault, not GW's (https://www.newamerica.org/education-policy/policy-papers/the-bush-education-budget-legacy/)

Mantra
11-29-2016, 06:26 PM
Trump declared himself the winner of the popular vote because you know, millions of illegals and dead people voted for Clinton.The most amazing thing about this is that he started retweeting this insanity:


what PROOF do u have DonaldTrump did not suffer from millions of FRAUD votes? Journalist? Do your job!
Pathetic - you have no sufficient evidence that Donald Trump did not suffer from voter fraud, shame! Bad reporter.These morons seriously believe that the burden of proof falls on everyone else to prove that fraud didn't happen instead of the other way around. They themselves don't actually need to provide even one scrap of real evidence that "millions" of dead people voted, because they've already made up their minds about it. The fraud story makes them feel happy inside, so they choose believe it. Case closed. Now it's everyone else's job to to prove them wrong. Pretty amazing logic, I must say.

Deepvoid
11-29-2016, 09:25 PM
Lots of reactions as Trump named Steven Mnuchin as his Secretary of Treasury. He's an ex Goldman Sach executive and used to run a credit fund for George Soros.

Filling up the swamp.

Mantra
11-29-2016, 09:56 PM
LOL

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyeaHKAW8AAS1t4.jpg:large

Deepvoid
11-29-2016, 09:58 PM
Romney spelled "HELP" with his food.

streetman
11-30-2016, 02:28 AM
I want this to be intentional. It means he trolled both his supporters and Hillary supporters by getting them to become hypocritical in their stance on this.



http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161130/15fdb48bc432a98ce66fdbb0b6a77890.jpg

Not sure if this source is even legit but I hate when people dredge up things people did or said more than a decade ago. You do know people evolve and learn from the past and grow and move on. Judge people on who they are TODAY; not 10 years ago. Hillary was unfairly judged, time and time again, and that's what gave us a pussy grabbing lying racist misogynist maniac as president.

streetman
11-30-2016, 02:32 AM
That tweet is dated today.

It's legit too: https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/803567993036754944

I'm referring to the Hillary thing.

implanted_microchip
11-30-2016, 03:01 AM
Uh yeah no dude. I was a Hillary supporter much to your annoyance and still think the flag burning law thing was fucking stupid and so do a ton of people. A bill a senator introduced that didn't pass that had really specific parameters for enforcement and still allowef for flag burning in the appropriate context that I disagree with is extremely different from a president-elect suggesting we should be able to revoke somebody's citizenship for expressing their freedom of speech and you and everybody else knows it.

That's an enormously false equivalency and it's borderline trolling to act like anyone that voted for the woman is somehow a hypocrite because they think Trump's suggestion is outrageous and wrong. I can't seem to remember where she made that a part of her 2016 presidential platform at all but at this point it's goddamn lazy to be trying to still make criticism of Trump into hypocrisy of Hillary because guess what, she lost, it's done, he's gonna be our president and spending four years trying to dismiss the voices of anyone who speaks against him because you didn't like Hillary Clinton is just fucking stupid.

Sallos
11-30-2016, 07:05 AM
Not sure if this source is even legit but I hate when people dredge up things people did or said more than a decade ago. You do know people evolve and learn from the past and grow and move on. Judge people on who they are TODAY; not 10 years ago. Hillary was unfairly judged, time and time again, and that's what gave us a pussy grabbing lying racist misogynist maniac as president.

the pussy grabbing took place 10 years ago, judge people on who they are today, not 10 years ago.

Deepvoid
11-30-2016, 07:16 AM
That tweet is dated today.

It's legit too: https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/803567993036754944

What's the point? He's not running against Hillary anymore. He won.
Oh and btw Hillary voted AGAINST a constitutional amendment that would have made burning the flag a criminal act.
Also, I'm glad to know that if Hillary did it then Trump can do it to.

WorzelG
11-30-2016, 11:46 AM
Maybe next we can all join the outraged protesters that hate Trump's suggestion that a couple million illegal immigrants be deported. It's so horrible that a president would say this!

Meanwhile, Obama has deported more immigrants than every president of the 20th century combined. Guess it's cool if you just don't talk about doing it.

I'm a bit confused, what's wrong with deporting 'illegal' immigrants? Also didn't the article say the focus was on lone criminals rather than families which is fair enough.
Also it's all about the rhetoric with Trump whereas Obama just gets on with the job without inflaming the public with hatred

bobbie solo
11-30-2016, 01:50 PM
It is more than likely that under a Trump presidency, with the terrible cabinet appointments he's made, coupled with a Republican controlled House, Senate & Supreme Court, whatever he does with illegal immigrants will be the least of our problems. I'm more worried about what wars he might get us into (I don't fully believe his isolationist rhetoric...which would actually be great in some ways), the economy crashing, unions being destroyed (especially the teachers after his education secretary appointment), the potential for the college tuition bubble finally popping, gun control measures losing strength & our policy on the environment going 100% in the wrong direction instead of just middling like under Obama. Plus about a dozen other concerns that scare me more than deporting people that shouldn't technically be here anyway (even though I could care less if they are). The ugliness from his people surrounding Muslims has me more concerned than the rhetoric about Hispanics too.

Presideo
11-30-2016, 02:30 PM
the pussy grabbing took place 10 years ago, judge people on who they are today, not 10 years ago.

What has Trump done or said that makes you think think he's less of a misogynist now than he was 10 years ago? Shaming women for gaining weight? Walking into dressing rooms while teenage girls are changing? Calling someone a "nasty woman" on national television?

Mantra
11-30-2016, 04:30 PM
Trump is a repulsive idiot, but I'm not gonna lie, this news about him keeping those jobs in Indiana is a good thing. And it fucking irritates the shit out of me that the Democrats haven't been fighting harder for more stuff like this for all these years. They're supposed to be the party of the working people, so why the fuck do we have Dems advocating all this pro-business corporate horseshit like TPP and whatnot? Trump would have never been able to take credit for all these victories for the working class if the Dems would have beat them to it. Republicans were traditionally apologists for outsourcing because they're pretty die hard believers in the free market and they're always down on government regulation/ intervention, which is basically what protectionism is. Shitheads like Reagen, Bush, etc, they had no problem with outsourcing the shit out of our country. Stopping outsourcing and the decimation of the middle class job market has always been a leftist/sjw cause.

So what the fuck is this shit? Dems better be taking a good hard look in the mirror right now and learning the correct lessons from this moment.

Sallos
11-30-2016, 04:33 PM
What has Trump done or said that makes you think think he's less of a misogynist now than he was 10 years ago? Shaming women for gaining weight? Walking into dressing rooms while teenage girls are changing? Calling someone a "nasty woman" on national television?

Trump is a jackass to anyone. How come when he degrades women he's offending every women who ever existed and hence a misogynist, but when he does it to men he's just being an idiot? Because the left see women as a special victim class that needs constant protection. Nevermind the fact that Trump gave women great career opportunities in New york in the realtor or housing business or whatever he did, in a time when very few women had the chance. I don't know about you, but judging by that action i think it evens things out when he says mean things about women.

Sallos
11-30-2016, 04:35 PM
Trump is a repulsive idiot, but I'm not gonna lie, this news about him keeping those jobs in Indiana is a good thing. And it fucking irritates the shit out of me that the Democrats haven't been fighting harder for more stuff like this for all these years. They're supposed to be the party of the working people, so why the fuck do we have Dems advocating all this pro-business corporate horseshit like TPP and whatnot? Trump would have never been able to take credit for all these victories for the working class if the Dems would have beat them to it. Republicans were traditionally apologists for outsourcing because they're pretty die hard believers in the free market and they're always down on government regulation/ intervention, which is basically what protectionism is. Shitheads like Reagen, Bush, etc, they had no problem with outsourcing the shit out of our country. Stopping outsourcing and the decimation of the middle class job market has always been a leftist/sjw cause.

So what the fuck is this shit? Dems better be taking a good hard look in the mirror right now and learning the correct lessons from this moment.

The left is more concern with identity politics.

allegro
11-30-2016, 05:34 PM
So what the fuck is this shit? Dems better be taking a good hard look in the mirror right now and learning the correct lessons from this moment.
Yes but see this (https://www.wired.com/2016/11/trump-carrier-plant/).

Bachy
11-30-2016, 05:39 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-nation/wp/2016/11/29/woman-claims-discrimination-declares-and-i-voted-for-trump-so-there-in-viral-michaels-rant/?client=safari

aggroculture
11-30-2016, 05:41 PM
Trump is a repulsive idiot, but I'm not gonna lie, this news about him keeping those jobs in Indiana is a good thing. And it fucking irritates the shit out of me that the Democrats haven't been fighting harder for more stuff like this for all these years. They're supposed to be the party of the working people, so why the fuck do we have Dems advocating all this pro-business corporate horseshit like TPP and whatnot? Trump would have never been able to take credit for all these victories for the working class if the Dems would have beat them to it. Republicans were traditionally apologists for outsourcing because they're pretty die hard believers in the free market and they're always down on government regulation/ intervention, which is basically what protectionism is. Shitheads like Reagen, Bush, etc, they had no problem with outsourcing the shit out of our country. Stopping outsourcing and the decimation of the middle class job market has always been a leftist/sjw cause.

So what the fuck is this shit? Dems better be taking a good hard look in the mirror right now and learning the correct lessons from this moment.

I'm reading comments from friends knowledgeable about labor issues and this case in particular that see this as a bit of theater, that workers were not involved in the negotation and will have to make big concessions, that workers' rights are not solved through back room deals between bosses but by strengthening unions - Trump and Republicans are anti-union, that the tax breaks that Carrier will receive are trickle down bs that does not benefit workers and that often in these kinds of deals the companies move the jobs away anyway.

The idea that Trump alone, with his dealmaking bravura, is going to sweep in and single-handedly save all US jobs in danger of leaving the country is far-fetched to say the least.

Here is a good article about how the left has neglected the working class, and Trump has capitalized on that opening, appealing to the left-wing economic desires of workers: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/29/how-the-democrats-could-win-again-if-they-wanted

Archive_Reports
11-30-2016, 05:57 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-nation/wp/2016/11/29/woman-claims-discrimination-declares-and-i-voted-for-trump-so-there-in-viral-michaels-rant/?client=safari

Counterpoint: If the cashier refuses to ring you up, you're not a paying customer. I also could have watched that video forever.

Presideo
11-30-2016, 07:21 PM
Trump is a jackass to anyone. How come when he degrades women he's offending every women who ever existed and hence a misogynist, but when he does it to men he's just being an idiot? Because the left see women as a special victim class that needs constant protection.

Lets clarify some shit:

It was his voice that talked about grabbing women by the pussy. It was his voice that confirmed with Howard Stern that his daughter was a nice piece of ass. It was his voice that shamed women for weight gain. That’s misogyny.

He never said that he would grab men by the dicks. He never said that his son was a hot piece of ass. He never called Chris Christie a fatass that needs to lose a few. That’s not misandry.


Nevermind the fact that Trump gave women great career opportunities in New york in the realtor or housing business or whatever he did, in a time when very few women had the chance. I don't know about you, but judging by that action i think it evens things out when he says mean things about women.

If women want to get behind a person like Trump, that’s their prerogative. But hiring all the women in the world doesn’t go to disprove the stupid shit he’s said about women. Your idea that hiring a few women "evens out" his sexist comments is bullshit. Nazis created the idea of the modern interstate, along with other positive ideas that have benefited society - but that doesn't make their war crimes any less deplorable. If I donate money to a battered women's shelter, it doesn't give me the right to beat women.

Swykk
11-30-2016, 07:50 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/post-nation/wp/2016/11/29/woman-claims-discrimination-declares-and-i-voted-for-trump-so-there-in-viral-michaels-rant/?client=safari


She also had a similar tantrum at Peet's Coffee. While I won't post it here, her identity was figured out and she apparently lost her job because of it. Somehow, I'm not feeling very bad about that outcome. Fuck dim racist twats who mistreat those in retail. Some of this is a product of letting customer service get way out of control. Assholes know they can act like toddlers because "the customer is always right."

Harry Seaward
11-30-2016, 07:59 PM
the pussy grabbing took place 10 years ago, judge people on who they are today, not 10 years ago.

I think Clinton's introduction of a law banning flag burning is fucking stupid, fascist bullshit. I also think Donald Trump is a gross, fascist, neanderthal.

Writing a piece of law I disagree with is maybe a bit different than admitting you like to sexually assault women though.

Frozen Beach
11-30-2016, 08:18 PM
He never called Chris Christie a fatass that needs to lose a few.
He's made fun of Chris Christie's weight before

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSjXaZWeDrw

Presideo
11-30-2016, 08:45 PM
He's made fun of Chris Christie's weight before

And two seconds after making fun of Christie, he turns to self-deprecation to lighten the mood and show solidarity. A big difference from calling a woman 'Miss Piggy" or critiquing Kim Kardashian's weight gain while pregnant.

Frozen Beach
11-30-2016, 08:58 PM
And two seconds after making fun of Christie, he turns to self-deprecation to lighten the mood and show solidarity. A big difference from calling a woman 'Miss Piggy" or critiquing Kim Kardashian's weight gain while pregnant.
There may be a big difference, but your statement was

He never called Chris Christie a fatass that needs to lose a few.
which is what he essentially did in that video. Of course he made solidarity, he wants Christie on his side.

He certainly didn't show solidarity to this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JXyA9WF_vU

Presideo
11-30-2016, 09:51 PM
@Frozen_Beach - OK, you got me there - but what about the videos proves that he's a misandrist? Because that was my point. I'm glad you have a talent for pilfering through YouTube, but you're really not grasping what I'm saying here.

Making cracks about Oreo's and food stamps doesn't show prejudice against men. On the other hand, comments like, “Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything" certainly proves he's a misogynist.

Mantra
11-30-2016, 09:54 PM
The left is more concern with identity politics.I'm 100% down with identity politics, and I think it's illogical to think you can't care about solving economic problems AND solving racism, sexism, etc, at the same time. These two areas shouldn't come at the expense of one another, which is one area where the Dems went wrong. They neglected their class politics in favor of celebrating symbolic, corporate-friendly nonsense like championing for more diverse corporate board rooms, and utterly inconsequential bullshit like that. That style of "identity politics" is pointless, because it has little impact on the lives of a majority of people, including those it claims to be fighting for.

Still, addressing identity politics is a necessary requirement for improving the lives of all middle and working class people. The smug, elitist world view that thinks it's totally fine to gun down black dudes for literally doing nothing is the exact same world view that doesn't give a shit about offshoring a manufacturing plant that employs a whole town of rural white people. It's the same mentality, just applied in a different direction. It's the whole "You're not part of my crowd, so fuck you" frame of mind that allows all this fucking bullshit to happen. It's a problem in every corner of society, and sooner or later it fucks everyone.

Trying to blame the election loss on multiculturalism and identity politics is a perfect example of the WRONG lesson to learn from this moment.

Frozen Beach
11-30-2016, 10:29 PM
@Frozen_Beach - OK, you got me there - but what about the videos proves that he's a misandrist?
My response to your Chris Christie statement had nothing to do with trying to claim he's a misandrist. My response to you was informing you that you were wrong about Trump having not insulted Christie for his weight. Now, if you meant "Trump has never insulted Chris Christie's weight in a sexist way" then I didn't get that from your original post.

And the only reason I posted that other video was because you said "And two seconds after making fun of Christie, he turns to self-deprecation to lighten the mood and show solidarity."
I linked it to show you a situation where he he doesn't do that which involves a man, just to show that he's fully capable of insulting men for being fat. It may not be specifically sexist, but he has and does do it. If someone is being insulted for being fat in a sexist way, then that is of course a different story.

I'm glad you have a talent for pilfering through YouTube
All I dd was google "Donald Trump Chris Christie Fat" and "Donald Trump Calls Fat"

edit: What would even a misandrist fat joke/insult look like? I'm having a hard time imagining it.

Presideo
11-30-2016, 10:53 PM
edit: What would even a misandrist fat joke/insult look like? I'm having a hard time imagining it.

I dunno, google it. :p

onthewall2983
11-30-2016, 10:57 PM
While we've been discussing fat jokes, Sarah Palin has been announced as being considered to run the VA, and Linda McMahon the Small Business Administration. Logically that would make me a shoe-in for Trump's health and fitness outreach.

Mantra
12-01-2016, 12:45 AM
Here is a good article about how the left has neglected the working class, and Trump has capitalized on that opening, appealing to the left-wing economic desires of workers: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/29/how-the-democrats-could-win-again-if-they-wantedDamn, as far as I'm concerned, this is the definitive post-mortem on the election.


I'm reading comments from friends knowledgeable about labor issues and this case in particular that see this as a bit of theater, that workers were not involved in the negotation and will have to make big concessions, that workers' rights are not solved through back room deals between bosses but by strengthening unions - Trump and Republicans are anti-union, that the tax breaks that Carrier will receive are trickle down bs that does not benefit workers and that often in these kinds of deals the companies move the jobs away anyway.

The idea that Trump alone, with his dealmaking bravura, is going to sweep in and single-handedly save all US jobs in danger of leaving the country is far-fetched to say the least.I agree 100%, but that thing you said about this being "a bit of theater"...To a large extent, that's what politics is all about. Theater. And Trump knows how to perform and how to bullshit people. Ultimately it doesn't matter whether he truly did or did not truly save those workers. If people believe the story, that's what sticks. That becomes the dominant narrative in people's mind. I mean, Trump had people believing that Obama was born in Kenya, which is way more ludicrous than this idea. So I wouldn't be surprised to see "Trump is saving our jobs!" become the new popular myth.

Honestly, the Dems need to get WAY better at communicating to voters and winning people over.

WorzelG
12-01-2016, 02:08 AM
So how are Trump supporters going to explain Trump hiring an ex Goldman Sachs person? I thought they were part of the Swamp to be drained.

Sallos
12-01-2016, 06:10 AM
Lets clarify some shit:

It was his voice that talked about grabbing women by the pussy. It was his voice that confirmed with Howard Stern that his daughter was a nice piece of ass. It was his voice that shamed women for weight gain. That’s misogyny.

He never said that he would grab men by the dicks. He never said that his son was a hot piece of ass. He never called Chris Christie a fatass that needs to lose a few. That’s not misandry.



If women want to get behind a person like Trump, that’s their prerogative. But hiring all the women in the world doesn’t go to disprove the stupid shit he’s said about women. Your idea that hiring a few women "evens out" his sexist comments is bullshit. Nazis created the idea of the modern interstate, along with other positive ideas that have benefited society - but that doesn't make their war crimes any less deplorable. If I donate money to a battered women's shelter, it doesn't give me the right to beat women.

The whole grabbing women by the pussy was just him telling how easy it is for a famous person to get away with what some would consider lewd behavior, same way a rock star would about his groupies. I don't know how describing reality makes him a misogynist? Or was it the fact that he did grab women by the pussy? The act itself? Apparently there was no problem since he could get "away with it" because women have no problem getting grabbed by the pussy by celebrities, i've heard many women say so themselves, the fact that if you're a powerful/celebrity/beef cake/whatever you can do things to them that no other men would, and that's the behavior Trump was describing. It's actually funny how, when that tape surfaced, he only lost in the polls among men.

He's daughter is a nice piece of ass, he's just stating reality. The whole shaming women about their weight i believe is about the miss universe thing, if so he was correct about shaming her, a Miss Universe has to maintain a certain image, being fit and slim, is part of it. And again, had he said that in those terms we wouldn't have any problem with it, its the fact that he has no filter and just say things in the meanest way possible that makes him a misogynist?

He never said that he would grab men by the dicks because he's not gay, same thing about his sons. So as for Trump calling Christie a fatass, is he a misandrist?

In my opinion it evens out, because giving women opportunity is far more positive than saying mean things about certain women he has beefs with on national television is a negative thing.

onthewall2983
12-01-2016, 06:12 AM
Tell these kids that (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-effect_us_583f4985e4b0c68e047eaeb9)

Sallos
12-01-2016, 06:19 AM
Tell these kids that (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-effect_us_583f4985e4b0c68e047eaeb9)

Kids being mean to other kids? unheard of!

onthewall2983
12-01-2016, 06:20 AM
Using the example of a future sitting President changes that, and justifies the behavior in their mind.

Sallos
12-01-2016, 06:26 AM
I think you're reading too much into it, it's just kids having new ammo or a different way to pick on other kids. After being fed for nearly a year about how Trump was antichrist incarnated, seeing how other kids reacted with fear, saying all those things that were said on TV, and seeing how it affects other people...i mean kids are as mean as Trump, so its only natural they would look up to him. But this idea that kids are just being mean now all of the sudden because he won, come on.

onthewall2983
12-01-2016, 06:28 AM
I'll give you that. I think however soon his actions and policies will make him the national pariah, he won't be so cool to them anymore.

aggroculture
12-01-2016, 07:48 AM
Honestly, the Dems need to get WAY better at communicating to voters and winning people over.

Yep. Obama makes this point quite clearly here: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/obama-on-his-legacy-trumps-win-and-the-path-forward-w452527

GulDukat
12-01-2016, 08:07 AM
Very unlikely Guns N' Roses will be asked to perform at Trump's inauguration:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xYGTB37oeq4

theruiner
12-01-2016, 11:36 AM
He's daughter is a nice piece of ass, he's just stating reality.

You're trolling, right? You have to be trolling.

allegate
12-01-2016, 11:47 AM
http://i.imgur.com/Jg0gWBo.gifv

Apologies in advance if it's a repost, some image hosts are banned here.

Sallos
12-01-2016, 12:01 PM
You're trolling, right? You have to be trolling.

What, you think she's not?

theruiner
12-01-2016, 12:06 PM
Yeah, that was my mistake for feeding the troll. Lesson learned.

allegro
12-01-2016, 01:58 PM
Bernie Sanders weighs in on the Trump / Carrier "deal" (https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/12/01/bernie-sanders-carrier-just-showed-corporations-how-to-beat-donald-trump/?utm_term=.2f9ce4b63586)


In essence, United Technologies took Trump hostage and won. And that should send a shock wave of fear through all workers across the country.

sick among the pure
12-01-2016, 03:33 PM
Bernie Sanders weighs in on the Trump / Carrier "deal" (https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/12/01/bernie-sanders-carrier-just-showed-corporations-how-to-beat-donald-trump/?utm_term=.2f9ce4b63586)

I read somewhere that it was basically a deal of 7 million in taxes for 800 jobs, can anyone confirm? Mobile is a bitch right now.

allegro
12-01-2016, 03:37 PM
I read somewhere that it was basically a deal of 7 million in taxes for 800 jobs, can anyone confirm? Mobile is a bitch right now.

Yup, that is fairly correct. (http://www.wsj.com/articles/indiana-gives-7-million-in-tax-breaks-to-keep-carrier-jobs-1480608461)


Indiana officials agreed to give United Technologies Corp. $7 million worth of tax breaks over 10 years to encourage the company’s Carrier Corp. unit to keep about 1,000 jobs in the state, according to people familiar with the matter, a deal struck after intense criticism of Carrier by President-elect Donald Trump on the campaign trail.

The deal would cover 800 Carrier workers from the Indianapolis furnace plant and an additional 300 research and headquarters positions that weren’t slated to go to Mexico, according to another person briefed on the deal.

The company still plans to move 600 jobs from the Carrier plant to Mexico. It also will proceed with plans to close a second plant in Huntington, Ind., that makes electronic controls, moving 700 other jobs to Mexico.

Carrier has previously said it expected to save about $65 million a year by shutting the plant and shifting its operations to Monterrey, in the state of Nuevo León, where wages average about $11 a day, plus benefits. The average wage of the Indiana jobs that will be retained is $30 an hour, according to a document reviewed by the Journal.

Louie_Cypher
12-01-2016, 04:47 PM
Yup, that is fairly correct. (http://www.wsj.com/articles/indiana-gives-7-million-in-tax-breaks-to-keep-carrier-jobs-1480608461) this hole thing stinks of bullshit no details and more re-thug union busting there i still another plant that is still moving but you don't hear about that.
-louie

allegro
12-01-2016, 08:45 PM
I'll admit it: I didn't think he could do this. I'm skeptical that this is something he could keep doing. I think it's a one-off campaign promise type thing. But I will also admit that "i didn't think he could do it, but he did" is a recurring pattern for Trump.

It's in Pence's home state of Indiana and Carrier is gaining a SHITLOAD and Indiana is gaining squat. Trump promised he would tax companies that left the country and took jobs with them; they are taking 1,300 jobs to Mexico and Trump and Pence GAVE them $7 million to keep 800 jobs in Indiana.

That ain't the campaign promise. It's a deal, but it's not what he promised.

Did you read the article? Carrier will move 1,300 jobs to Mexico and pay the workers in Mexico ELEVEN DOLLARS PER DAY PLUS BENEFITS. And of course Carrier isn't going to lower prices of products sold. AND they get $7 million in tax credits in Indiana. Yup, Trump's "fixing" things ... for wealthy corporations.

Ends up they threatened Carrier's parent company with the loss of Federal contracts (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/indiana-carrier-deal-federal-contracts-trump-232021).

cahernandez
12-01-2016, 09:05 PM
It's in Pence's home state of Indiana and Carrier is gaining a SHITLOAD and Indiana is gaining squat. Trump promised he would tax companies that left the country and took jobs with them; they are taking 1,300 jobs to Mexico and Trump and Pence GAVE them $7 million to keep 800 jobs in Indiana.

That ain't the campaign promise. It's a deal, but it's not what he promised.

Did you read the article? Carrier will move 1,300 jobs to Mexico and pay the workers in Mexico ELEVEN DOLLARS PER DAY PLUS BENEFITS. And of course Carrier isn't going to lower prices of products sold. AND they get $7 million in tax credits in Indiana. Yup, Trump's "fixing" things ... for wealthy corporations.

Ends up they threatened Carrier's parent company with the loss of Federal contracts (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/indiana-carrier-deal-federal-contracts-trump-232021).

I live where this Carrier plant is going to be built. Actually, it's already built. As much as I like Bernie, these jobs that are leaving the US will not come back. Fighting for them is useless. I was reading an op-ed in the local newspaper, the author said that Americans have to focus in hi-tech and services-industry jobs. Blue collar jobs are a thing of the past for your country. You can definitely not compete to a $11/hour wage. And that's a fairly well paid job for Mexican standards.

Louie_Cypher
12-01-2016, 09:10 PM
mark my words if people start looking into details he'll use one of the oldest con tricks in the book distraraction in the next 24 trump will tweet something outragous that's his whole playbook
-louie

allegro
12-01-2016, 09:22 PM
I live where this Carrier plant is going to be built. Actually, it's already built. As much as I like Bernie, these jobs that are leaving the US will not come back. Fighting for them is useless. I was reading an op-ed in the local newspaper, the author said that Americans have to focus in hi-tech and services-industry jobs. Blue collar jobs are a thing of the past for your country. You can definitely not compete to a $11/hour wage. And that's a fairly well paid job for Mexican standards.

Oh it's $11 per HOUR?? Thank God!! The Wall Street Journal article said $11 PER DAY. I was, like, WTF.

But, yes, our cost of living demands $30 per hour and companies want high high high profits so they want overhead as cheap as possible. We still have a lot of blue collar jobs in this country that need to be filled and are in high demand but require trade school, like HVAC, electrical, plumbing, auto repair, and we still have a shitload of blue collar workers in the medical and hospitality industries (that get $7.25 to $9 per hour). Factory manufacturing jobs, though, those are never gonna come back like the old days.

onthewall2983
12-01-2016, 09:51 PM
Meanwhile, Tomi Lahren was on The Daily Show last night. I wonder if Fox News is looking at her (perhaps lustily) as someone who can be the newer, younger Megyn Kelly since the older model has gone rogue.

Khrz
12-02-2016, 12:31 AM
Trump didn't flip working-class white voters. The rust belt revolt is a myth. (http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/12/the_myth_of_the_rust_belt_revolt.html)

Yeah that's not really surprising. A call to "vote against x" will never be as motivating as genuine faith in a candidate. Trump had a strong following while the left seemed to reluctantly consider Clinton.

Louie_Cypher
12-02-2016, 03:59 PM
I live where this Carrier plant is going to be built. Actually, it's already built. As much as I like Bernie, these jobs that are leaving the US will not come back. Fighting for them is useless. I was reading an op-ed in the local newspaper, the author said that Americans have to focus in hi-tech and services-industry jobs. Blue collar jobs are a thing of the past for your country. You can definitely not compete to a $11/hour wage. And that's a fairly well paid job for Mexican standards.he also said, there would be consiquences for leaving u.s. what, baoa\rd lines it's pocket's.
-louie

botley
12-02-2016, 09:20 PM
Those last two paragraphs (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/02/us/politics/trump-speaks-with-taiwans-leader-a-possible-affront-to-china.html) oh my God what the fuck Barbeque

onthewall2983
12-02-2016, 09:33 PM
Sarah Palin calls the Carrier deal "crony capitalism" (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/sarah-palin-donald-trump-carrier-deal-crony-capitalism-232139)

allegro
12-02-2016, 09:46 PM
Sarah Palin calls the Carrier deal "crony capitalism" (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/sarah-palin-donald-trump-carrier-deal-crony-capitalism-232139)

Never in my life did I think I would be agreeing with Sarah Palin on anything but here I am ...

allegro
12-02-2016, 09:50 PM
Those last two paragraphs (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/02/us/politics/trump-speaks-with-taiwans-leader-a-possible-affront-to-china.html) oh my God what the fuck Barbeque
Trump is playing Reagan, here; siding with Taiwan, not kowtowing to China.

We still operate under the Six Assurances (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Assurances).

Mantra
12-02-2016, 11:33 PM
Sarah Palin calls the Carrier deal "crony capitalism" (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/sarah-palin-donald-trump-carrier-deal-crony-capitalism-232139)

it's like nothing makes sense anymore, lol.

botley
12-03-2016, 07:48 AM
Trump is playing Reagan, here; siding with Taiwan, not kowtowing to China.

We still operate under the Six Assurances (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Assurances).

If by 'we' you mean the State department, yeah maybe, for now. It's quite obvious that Rump operates in total ignorance of and defiance against existing policy. Weeeeeeee

allegro
12-03-2016, 08:53 AM
If by 'we' you mean the State department, yeah maybe, for now. It's quite obvious that Rump operates in total ignorance of and defiance against existing policy. Weeeeeeee
We is the United States Government, including Congress.

Jinsai
12-03-2016, 04:04 PM
Oh it's $11 per HOUR?? Thank God!! The Wall Street Journal article said $11 PER DAY. I was, like, WTF.

But, yes, our cost of living demands $30 per hour and companies want high high high profits so they want overhead as cheap as possible. We still have a lot of blue collar jobs in this country that need to be filled and are in high demand but require trade school, like HVAC, electrical, plumbing, auto repair, and we still have a shitload of blue collar workers in the medical and hospitality industries (that get $7.25 to $9 per hour). Factory manufacturing jobs, though, those are never gonna come back like the old days.

That's becoming a large part of the problem, and the giant elephant in the room when it comes to illegal immigration... want to keep paying people fifteen dollars an hour to barely grasp by in the big cities in this country while you run out all the illegal immigrant labor? If you do that while forcing an increase on the minimum wage, then the basic infrastructure of American economics goes out the window.... want to impose a sensible living wage on McDonald's nation?

We're about to find out what happens when people stop being polite, and start getting real, by electing a businessman to prance about appointing crony businessmen to political positions, and go nuts benefiting the tiny pocket of people you don't care about at the expense of EVERYONE YOU DO!

Have fun America!

Baphomette
12-03-2016, 09:42 PM
illegal immigrantUndocumented, please.


"It found 17 extra votes for Stein and 12 for Libertarian Gary Johnson, while removing two votes from Trump and one from Clinton. When putting all the results together, that means the first day of the recount narrowed the gap between Clinton and Trump by just a single vote. At her current pace, Clinton will overtake Trump in Wisconsin in approximately 74 and a half years. Unfortunately, the recount is expected to last just two weeks."Rather than a blog (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/12/recount_silliness_in_wisconsin_nets_clinton_exactl y_one_vote.html), why not check the WI Election Committee site (http://elections.wi.gov/elections-voting/recount/2016-presidential) for the actual numbers?

Deepvoid
12-04-2016, 12:35 PM
I'm late to the party but didn't Carrier just created a blueprint on how to extort taxes relief from the government? How was that a good deal for Trump?

Also, his 35% tax on imports for companies that outsource jobs is another terrible idea. Consumer prices will skyrocket.

Khrz
12-04-2016, 12:39 PM
Also, his 35% tax on imports for companies that outsource jobs is another terrible idea. Consumer prices will skyrocket.

One way or the other... Imagine the price of an iPhone made in USA.

elevenism
12-04-2016, 11:51 PM
i have the strangest feeling that trump somehow will not be our next president.
it came to me in a dream and i can't shake it.

i know it sounds crazy.

allegate
12-05-2016, 11:04 AM
Sarah Palin calls the Carrier deal "crony capitalism" (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/sarah-palin-donald-trump-carrier-deal-crony-capitalism-232139)

If this means she's pissed because she's not getting the VA job then I'm ecstatic.

allegate
12-06-2016, 10:49 AM
http://i67.tinypic.com/2py14as.jpg

WTF is wrong with this family?

Sarah K
12-06-2016, 11:30 AM
http://www.npr.org/2016/12/05/504500990/biden-hints-hes-leaving-the-door-open-to-a-2020-run?


Vice President Joe Biden teased Monday that he is leaving the door open to another presidential run in 2020."I'm going to run in 2020," Biden told a group of reporters on Capitol Hill.
"For what?" one of the reporters asked.
"For president," Biden responded, adding later, "What the hell, man."

It'll never happen. But Joe is a hilarious national treasure. WHAT THE HELL, MAN.

SM Rollinger
12-06-2016, 11:34 AM
i have the strangest feeling that trump somehow will not be our next president.
it came to me in a dream and i can't shake it.

i know it sounds crazy.
I can still picture it happening, but I feel like he will get ran out of office for something or another. Something will come out that hasnt yet.

"Worse than Nixon" I can already see the headlines...

edit: I wish HST would have lived to see this, I can only imagine what he would have had to say about this. RIP Hunter :(

Dra508
12-06-2016, 06:05 PM
http://i67.tinypic.com/2py14as.jpg

WTF is wrong with this family?

What are you thinking? She is very close to her son. He is seconds away from making his parents (mom) not being the center if his universe. Are you seeing something else?

elevenism
12-06-2016, 07:32 PM
edit: I wish HST would have lived to see this, I can only imagine what he would have had to say about this.
Ha, i've echoed this sentiment more than once this past year, and imagined him skewering Trump (especially as i've been periodically reading Great Shark Hunt)
Fucking Hunter. I guess he didn't WANT to live to see ANYTHING anymore :( .

bobbie solo
12-07-2016, 01:41 AM
Biden should run. He would mop the floor with this piece of shit, just like he would have this time around. The Democrats have to play hardball starting now. Whoever they run in 2020 can't play pattycakes with Trump. Biden will be old as shit but if he has the best chance of winning then he needs to run. It's really, really important.

onthewall2983
12-07-2016, 04:00 AM
Is there anyone younger that can do the job? All due respect to Biden but he'll be closer to 80 in 4 years and I think we need someone more directly attuned to the problems of 30 and 40-somethings and younger. I'd even balk a little at Bernie running because he'll be near the same age around that time too.

Sarah K
12-07-2016, 08:01 AM
Lemme tell you about CORY BOOKER.

Swykk
12-07-2016, 08:08 AM
You're right.

As disappointed as I am with her inability to pick a side during the primary (I get the politics behind waiting it out but thought she was above that weak sauce), I believe a Booker/Warren ticket is the way to go in 2020.

bobbie solo
12-07-2016, 12:24 PM
Of course Sarah K likes Cory Booker.

Booker is a corporatist democrat that talks a big game but doesn't have the track record to back it up. I live in NJ & have spent lots of time in Newark back when he was mayor. He's a great speaker and can be inspirational with his words. But he also sucks at the Wall Street tit more than ANY other Democrat in Congress. He does their bidding with not a care in the world. He's not outspoken on true progressive issues. He just goes along with the establishment. Not someone that I will support. And is he the guy thats gonna rip Trump a new asshole on the campaign trail? No way. But you know Biden, Warren or Bernie will.

Now, I hear anyone who complains about Biden's age. And if Booker is polling strongly at defeating Trump soundly, then let him be the guy. I might not vote for him, but whatever is needed to get these assholes out of the White House as soon as possible. The damage they are setting up to do right now looks to be severe. I don't care who it is for the Democrats as long as it's the best person to hold onto the blue states and take back the swing states. I will continue to vote Green Party as my state isn't going red ever. And then we go do the much less agonizing work of bringing the Dem prez as far left as we can if it's not Warren or Bernie.

Sarah K
12-07-2016, 02:40 PM
I'm not one who cares about the wall street scare tactic, so that doesn't really mean anything to me. There will always be money tied into politics. Unlike most liberals, that isn't something that I view as an actual reasonable thing to tackle at this point in time.

I like him because he has shown a strong ability to work with *everyone*, not just his party, which I find refreshing, and a reasonable alternative to what we are currently going through. He's crazy smart, and a good leader. I align with him on most social topics. I'm sad to see all of this work he's done on prison reform is likely going to be for nothing. That's something that I think is extremely important to address, so it is sad that it likely won't go anywhere.

onthewall2983
12-07-2016, 02:44 PM
Trump is Time Magazine's Person Of The Year. He absolutely deserves it.

thevoid99
12-07-2016, 03:56 PM
Trump is Time Magazine's Person Of The Year. He absolutely deserves it.

I saw the cover and I laughed. Let's not forget that Adolf Hitler was also Time's person of the year.

Louie_Cypher
12-07-2016, 04:05 PM
I'm not one who cares about the wall street scare tactic, so that doesn't really mean anything to me. There will always be money tied into politics. Unlike most liberals, that isn't something that I view as an actual reasonable thing to tackle at this point in time.

I like him because he has shown a strong ability to work with *everyone*, not just his party, which I find refreshing, and a reasonable alternative to what we are currently going through. He's crazy smart, and a good leader. I align with him on most social topics. I'm sad to see all of this work he's done on prison reform is likely going to be for nothing. That's something that I think is extremely important to address, so it is sad that it likely won't go anywhere.you like the rest have been conned, he's done nothing, nothing to show he's for the everyman, i know it's hard to admit but you've been duped
-louie

Sarah K
12-07-2016, 04:12 PM
Definitely disagree, but that's okay! We are a long way out from 2020. It's just fun to speculate and dream right now. Hah.

Louie_Cypher
12-07-2016, 04:16 PM
I saw the cover and I laughed. Let's not forget that Adolf Hitler was also Time's person of the year. iknow it's hufpo, i yes i'm a west coast libby,but how exactly is this draing the swamp. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-pruitt-environmental-protection-agency_us_584856f1e4b0b9feb0dab14f
'm

Louie_Cypher
12-07-2016, 04:27 PM
Trump is Time Magazine's Person Of The Year. He absolutely deserves it. does match all of these: http://www.enddomesticabuse.org/article_narcissistic_politics_abuse_signs_524.php? gclid=CjwKEAiAg5_CBRDo4o6e4o3NtG0SJAB-IatYaT3LFzTudcoPulqbaGqhtSTFNGPC18VeafEojUvb8hoCsW Tw_wcB

thevoid99
12-07-2016, 05:46 PM
And heading the small business administration under Fuckface-moron is.... Linda McMahon: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/07/trump-picks-wrestling-magnate-linda-mcmahon-to-lead-small-business-administration.html?__source=twitter

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AlarmedPersonalFeline-size_restricted.gif

We're so fucked....

Krazy
12-07-2016, 06:13 PM
.
.
http://deadspin.com/donald-trump-names-wwes-linda-mcmahon-to-head-small-bus-1789799323
.
.



http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/167/129/tumblr_ljkahzoZ671qanb21o1_500.gif

Presideo
12-07-2016, 07:35 PM
This is really setting the stage for a Stone Cold 2020 run!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTtfVOyVsf0

Khrz
12-07-2016, 08:03 PM
Trump is Time Magazine's Person Of The Year. He absolutely deserves it.

Well yeah, it's not quite an award... It's always topical, and the Time's Person of the Year is generally symbolical of a broader topic, of a general discussion around what that person represents. It's quite fitting.

Louie_Cypher
12-07-2016, 10:23 PM
And heading the small business administration under Fuckface-moron is.... Linda McMahon: http://www.cnbc.com/2016/12/07/trump-picks-wrestling-magnate-linda-mcmahon-to-lead-small-business-administration.html?__source=twitter

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AlarmedPersonalFeline-size_restricted.gif

We're so fucked.... why is that guy beating up ellen? -louie

Exocet
12-07-2016, 11:56 PM
I bet the democrats will fuck up again in 2020...their party is so corrupt...it takes decades to undo corruption..
For the left in 2020 they need a younger Bernie Sanders type candidate...someone with his ideas..Bernie will be a massive figure in American history.

The DNC are so fucked up though...its all style over substance..
Just need to find that rockstar....

Aladdinsanity
12-08-2016, 12:57 AM
I bet the democrats will fuck up again in 2020...their party is so corrupt...it takes decades to undo corruption..
For the left in 2020 they need a younger Bernie Sanders type candidate...someone with his ideas..Bernie will be a massive figure in American history.

The DNC are so fucked up though...its all style over substance..
Just need to find that rockstar....
Keith Ellison being pushed for DNC chair gives me hope, but a lot of the establishment Dems are already trying to smear him over his ties to Farrkhan from over 20yrs ago despite denouncing him well over a decade ago; as though any self-respecting liberal should be clutching their pearls over that minor factoid while looking the other way as the DNC re-elects corporate Wall Street shills for leadership positions who have voted to repeal Glass-Steagall, push for regime-changing wars (resulting in more loss of innocent lives whilst emboldening terrorists), outsource jobs and deregulate big business which blatantly puts profits over people.

Shit. Bernie should just quit the DNC and form a new party. Take Tulsi Gabbard, Keith Ellison, Nina Turner and other actual progressives with him... throw Jill Stein and Cornel West to be involved in there somewhere for good measure. Call themselves the Liberal Party.

Baphomette
12-08-2016, 01:37 AM
I saw the cover and I laughed. Let's not forget that Adolf Hitler was also Time's person of the year.And let's not forget to bow down to the cover's genius graphic designer. The placement of the logo was absolutely intentional.

joplinpicasso
12-08-2016, 09:43 AM
Shit. Bernie should just quit the DNC and form a new party. Take Tulsi Gabbard, Keith Ellison, Nina Turner and other actual progressives with him... throw Jill Stein and Cornel West to be involved in there somewhere for good measure. Call themselves the Liberal Party.

Hmm, good luck with that hypothetical party ever winning any election.

hollowed_point
12-08-2016, 10:06 AM
I come before you and humbly apologize for myself and the 36 other Oklahomans that realize how god awful this is:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/07/us/politics/scott-pruitt-epa-trump.html?_r=0

allegro
12-08-2016, 10:18 AM
And let's not forget to bow down to the cover's genius graphic designer. The placement of the logo was absolutely intentional.

And brilliant HAAAHAHAHAHA!!!

allegro
12-08-2016, 10:24 AM
I come before you and humbly apologize for myself and the 36 other Oklahomans that realize how god awful this is:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/07/us/politics/scott-pruitt-epa-trump.html?_r=0

Jesus H Christ I hope he doesn't get confirmed. That's like making the Devil the head of the Catholic Church.

WorzelG
12-08-2016, 10:29 AM
I come before you and humbly apologize for myself and the 36 other Oklahomans that realize how god awful this is:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/07/us/politics/scott-pruitt-epa-trump.html?_r=0

FFS 'war on coal'. Coal is a finite resource. What does this joker plan on doing when it runs out?

Vertigo
12-08-2016, 12:19 PM
It's a war that actually needs to be fought, so no wonder the Republicans don't get it...

hollowed_point
12-08-2016, 12:28 PM
We all know the war against christmas is infinitely more important.

Sarah K
12-08-2016, 12:36 PM
Why the hell would anyone want wacky-ass Jill Stein associated with anything? Big 'ole NOPE to that.

I think that pushing for more parties to have viable options is a good thing. But until people start realizing and carrying out plans to give those people a chance at local and state levels, shooting for the stars of the Presidency will get them nowhere.

Khrz
12-08-2016, 12:42 PM
We all know the war against christmas is infinitely more important.

If I'm not confused in my lore, War on Christmas and war on Coal are the exact same thing no ? It's like Santa Klaus and Krampus ?

Well at least I think we should consider the possibility of an overarching theme there.

Swykk
12-08-2016, 02:21 PM
Agreed. No fucking way I'd want poisonous manipulative crank Jill Stein anywhere near a political party.

Louie_Cypher
12-08-2016, 02:52 PM
there's no such thing, turn fox off you guy won, be happy:o,
-louie

Harry Seaward
12-08-2016, 02:53 PM
Keith Ellison is a bad idea. Dems need to find somebody else to be the face of their new movement. Honestly, he is tainted. Even if he connections to less desirable elements are tenuous (I think the connections are further than I'm comfortable with,) they are still the story now. They will always be the story. It doesn't matter how much of it is true, it's the attention grabber and I don't think there's any real chance of it going away. It's just going to hurt the cause more than it could ever help.

allegate
12-08-2016, 02:58 PM
FFS 'war on coal'. Coal is a finite resource. What does this joker plan on doing when it runs out?It's almost like you are unfamiliar with the Republican party's ideal of "who the fuck cares about twenty years from now? I'll be dead so I don't care."

Aladdinsanity
12-08-2016, 04:04 PM
I think that pushing for more parties to have viable options is a good thing. But until people start realizing and carrying out plans to give those people a chance at local and state levels, shooting for the stars of the Presidency will get them nowhere.
I don't think anyone's arguing against the local and state strategy, so we're in complete agreement there. I'm not pushing for more party options as much as I am emphasizing that the DNC needs a top-down restructuring like yesterday, especially after losing to a neo-fascist clown. The Democratic party needs to start moving to the left or putting in people with actual progressive opinions (which most of the voting population actually identifies with). It's ridiculous that the Republicans can continue to elect anyone who runs from right-of-center to far-right/borderline fascist while the Dems couldn't even get around to being uniformly pro-gay marriage until a few years ago. "I'm not outright evil" isn't going to cut it anymore.

Hell, we couldn't even get most of them to address what's going on in Standing Rock -- and once things got so awkward that Obama and Hillary had no choice that they had to say SOMETHING, their responses were "we need to find a solution that pleases both sides". Uhh... really? BOTH SIDES?! The one side with unarmed protestors and the other acting as Pinkerton goons blatantly stomping all over their First Amendment rights and blowing a girl's arm off? Hillary couldn't at least give congratulatory lip-service to the Sioux Nation (even when it's safe to do so now that DAPL is blocked) because she's too busy throwing a thank-you party for her millionaire donors as we speak.



Keith Ellison is a bad idea. Dems need to find somebody else to be the face of their new movement. Honestly, he is tainted. Even if he connections to less desirable elements are tenuous (I think the connections are further than I'm comfortable with,) they are still the story now. They will always be the story. It doesn't matter how much of it is true, it's the attention grabber and I don't think there's any real chance of it going away. It's just going to hurt the cause more than it could ever help.
I'm open to hear what exactly what the problem with Keith is. If it's his ties to Farrakhan, that doesn't cut it for me, quite frankly -- his ties to him are primarily specific to helping create what became the Million Man March, an event that should be a gold star on his record. He later denounced Farrakhan when he became aware of his anti-semitism. If Keith Ellison can be accused of anti-semitism by critics, those same critics could just as easily be accused of Islamophobia.

Harry Seaward
12-08-2016, 05:13 PM
I'm open to hear what exactly what the problem with Keith is. If it's his ties to Farrakhan, that doesn't cut it for me, quite frankly -- his ties to him are primarily specific to helping create what became the Million Man March, an event that should be a gold star on his record. He later denounced Farrakhan when he became aware of his anti-semitism. If Keith Ellison can be accused of anti-semitism by critics, those same critics could just as easily be accused of Islamophobia.

None of that matters. What matters is optics. And the perception of the situation is what it is and it's going to make it difficult for the Dems to accomplish what they set out to accomplish if they have to deal with this from the outset, and consequently for the entire rest of the time. It shouldn't be very difficult to find somebody who is cleaner.

allegate
12-08-2016, 05:20 PM
Isn't everyone compromised in some way, if it's all just about "optics"?

Khrz
12-08-2016, 06:18 PM
From that perspective, nowadays, nobody's "clean". Even a fucking saint would be suspect of the worst compromises. If you can't find or adapt a narrative, make it up.

I mean, that's what this whole election was about.

allegro
12-08-2016, 06:43 PM
It's almost like you are unfamiliar with the Republican party's ideal of "who the fuck cares about twenty years from now? I'll be dead so I don't care."

They also have this other idea of "risk management" based on the lowest-common-denominator of scientists (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_the_mainstream_scienti fic_assessment_of_global_warming). I had a college professor with a PhD in this shit who swore that the Mauna Loa Carbon Dioxide Levels are high because they don't take into account the natives' burning of tons and tons of crop leaves every year which puts carbon into the atmosphere on the island and they don't properly clean the equipment after the burning season. Many Republicans point to the big Global Cooling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling) scare we went through during the 1970s. They've seen the media attention shift in both directions and now they don't believe anything. It's the media's fault.

https://stevengoddard.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/screenhunter_1038-feb-11-18-32.gif

Deepvoid
12-10-2016, 03:22 PM
ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson appears to have secured the Secretary of State position with John Bolton as his deputy secretary of state.

Vertigo
12-10-2016, 07:58 PM
We're a couple of sneaky murders away from living in House of Cards.

cashpiles (closed)
12-10-2016, 09:22 PM
ExxonMobil CEO Rex Tillerson appears to have secured the Secretary of State position with John Bolton as his deputy secretary of state.

Looks like the corporations have found a more effective way to lobby: just cut out the politicians completely.

Khrz
12-11-2016, 01:12 AM
Yeah, I can see how that's potentially catastrophic, even without government intervention. Given everyone's attitude when it comes to information sources and echo chambers nowadays, the definition of what "fake news" entails is going to become extremely blurry.

It's not so much a cry for help than an assessment of the current state of information and a spotlight on the way we use social medias to isolate ourselves from unpleasant news and sources. It has shown how crippling it is. I'm not sure people really care though. If they did, things wouldn't have reached that point.

Deepvoid
12-11-2016, 11:49 AM
I find the whole "fake news" thing laughable.
The right-wing websites are calling whatever suits their agenda "fake news" (i.e. climate change) and the other side is doing the same.

Fake news debate is pointless since both sides will never agree on what fake news is.

Khrz
12-11-2016, 12:00 PM
I find the whole "fake news" thing laughable.
The right-wing websites are calling whatever suits their agenda "fake news" (i.e. climate change) and the other side is doing the same.

Fake news debate is pointless since both sides will never agree on what fake news is.

The problem isn't the "that's quite a creative way to interpret actual events" news sites. The problem is shady sites copying the layout and editorial style of actual, legitimate news sources to propagate fictitious events. Once relayed on Facebook or Twitter, you can't tell the difference anymore due to the formatting.

It's actual news bombing, not merely bullshit sharing. It's pizzagate under New York Times' clothing.

Jinsai
12-11-2016, 12:03 PM
I find the whole "fake news" thing laughable.
The right-wing websites are calling whatever suits their agenda "fake news" (i.e. climate change) and the other side is doing the same.

Fake news debate is pointless since both sides will never agree on what fake news is.

You have no idea what people are talking about when they're talking about the "fake news" that influenced the outcome of this election.

and now the CIA is saying that Russia did in fact tamper with our election (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/10/505072304/cia-concludes-russian-interference-aimed-to-elect-trump?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=2038)

and Trump suddenly doesn't care if the results weren't anything other than a fair representation of the American people and how awesome he is, of course

Deepvoid
12-11-2016, 12:55 PM
You have no idea what people are talking about when they're talking about the "fake news" that influenced the outcome of this election.

and now the CIA is saying that Russia did in fact tamper with our election (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/10/505072304/cia-concludes-russian-interference-aimed-to-elect-trump?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=2038)

and Trump suddenly doesn't care if the results weren't anything other than a fair representation of the American people and how awesome he is, of course

Greenwald squashed that WaPo article. So now, Trump supporters are calling this CIA thing "fake news".

Trump supporters are basically saying "why would we believe the agency who said there were WMD in Iraq"

Khrz
12-11-2016, 01:32 PM
That's understandable. If your anti-establishment candidate's victory was rationalised by said establishment as a mixture of news tampering, unilateral hacking (well, unilateral leaking) and general gullibility, you'd stand your ground too and defend the legitimacy of your now president.
Trump won on the ground of "everything is rotten". As long as he's not POTUS, everything is questionable and suspect, under this assumption.

implanted_microchip
12-11-2016, 01:48 PM
Trump's apparently only attending one intelligence briefing a week, while Mike Pence is getting six.

His reasoning?

"I'm, like, a smart person."

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/309840-trump-on-intelligence-briefings-i-get-it-when-i-need-it

So we have a president-elect defending Russia while bashing the US intelligence agencies and not even getting regular briefings because he's confident he knows enough and that he'll have 8 years to worry about it and, somehow, people are still trying to make the case for why he's "not really that bad" or "at least he's not that evil no good child-killing Hillary." What the fuck is wrong with people at this point?

Louie_Cypher
12-11-2016, 02:19 PM
didn't condie say something similar on the 10th of september,oil prices are going to skyrocket, oh u.s. you brought this on yourselves U.S. A. uninformed stupid assholes.
-Louie

Mantra
12-11-2016, 02:21 PM
I almost feel like we're starting to enter into a "post-reality" era.

Like back in the good old days, people had all these intense political disagreements, but it still felt like we were mostly working with the same sense of reality, more or less. The disagreement was usually more about how to interpret the situation. Obviously there was some disputing about certain facts and whatnot, but still, I think the bulk of our political conflict revolved around disagreement over our values, our vision for the future, etc. But we were still mostly working with the same sense of what is real and not real.

But now it's like that's becoming less and less the case. It's almost like these ridiculous weed-fueled arguments I used to have with my friend where he was like "I mean, dude, how do any of us really KNOW that George Washington was the first president, or even that Barack Obama is the president now? Did you personally see them with your own eyes???!! How do you know for a fact that ANY of this is real?"...And this nonsense was relatively harmless and entertaining when it was just a bunch of stoner idiots pretending to be intellectuals, but now I feel like half the country is turning into my spacey old friend. People can choose to believe anything, and no matter what it is, there's a whole ecosystem of information out there that they can immerse themselves in to give them the sensation of being "informed." Anything that contradicts that becomes a conspiracy or a false flag or an infiltration or fake news, or whatever the fuck. And the end result is that we not only have huge factions of people with different ideologies, but also completely incompatible notions of what is and is not objectively, factually true. And it's like...how are we supposed to address that?

allegro
12-11-2016, 02:33 PM
Exactly. My husband was telling me about this friend-of-a-friend on Facebook who posted an alleged photo of Hillary Clinton with Osama bin Laden, and my husband said "that's OBVIOUSLY PHOTOSHOPPED!" and the poster said "LOL, you are obviously a libertard, making up excuses for everything, you can't accept facts" etc. etc. My husband said that bin Laden's head in the photo was, like, 2x bigger than Clinton's and it was OBVIOUSLY Photoshopped next to Clinton. But, this person saw this "on the Internet" so it "must be true" and anybody who says it isn't is a "libertard" so that guy's "reality" was what it was and there was no changing it, it was altered by a fake photo. Never mind the obvious reality that Clinton helped KILL bin Laden.

Then, about a week after the election, a friend of my husband was posting links on Instagram to "news" sites showing that Trump really won the popular vote. And he TOTALLY believes this shit, and if you counter that with links to real news indicating otherwise, he says you're believing the liberal media crap and misinformation.

I am following a photojournalist from National Geographic on Instagram who was photographing Fidel Castro's funeral cortege, where TONS of people lined the streets for days holding pictures and flags to watch his cremains go by, and there were SHITLOADS of comments saying THOSE PEOPLE WERE HELD AT GUNPOINT TO STAND THERE. If anybody disagreed with them and said, no, those people loved Castro, they'd get BOMBARDED with comments like 'i'm gonna have you banned from Instagram!" "you're a stupid fool, my uncle was killed by Castro!" etc. it was a total shitstorm. The photographer stayed out of it. There were plenty of "viva Fidel" comments, which were met with horrible retorts plus "I AM GOING TO CANCEL MY SUBSCRIPTION TO NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC" (which they probably didn't have, anyway) all over some photographer covering a current event.

Now look at this shit with this Union guy at Carrier. He said he didn't like the way Trump handled this Carrier "deal," and then Trump goes after the guy on Twitter, and now the guy IS GETTING DEATH THREATS FROM TRUMP FANS with rude comments blaming THE UNION GUY for the loss of jobs to Mexico. WHAT THE FUCK???? The UNION can't stop the loss of jobs to Mexico. Do people REALLY think that ANY fucking American employee is going to take ELEVEN DOLLARS PER HOUR TO WORK IN A CARRIER FACTORY LIKE THEY ARE PAYING IN MEXICO? GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR FUCKING ASS. That's a "reality" that is some fucking unreal state that is in THE FUCKING 50s.

Mantra
12-11-2016, 02:43 PM
^Oh it must be this one:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/8d/2a/63/8d2a6320debe042e060dcb30fb1e8672.jpg

lol

implanted_microchip
12-11-2016, 02:55 PM
It's almost like these ridiculous weed-fueled arguments I used to have with my friend where he was like "I mean, dude, how do any of us really KNOW that George Washington was the first president, or even that Barack Obama is the president now? Did you personally see them with your own eyes???!! How do you know for a fact that ANY of this is real?"...And this nonsense was relatively harmless and entertaining when it was just a bunch of stoner idiots pretending to be intellectuals, but now I feel like half the country is turning into my spacey old friend.


... so you're saying we should legalize it

allegro
12-11-2016, 02:57 PM
... so you're saying we should legalize it

Hahaha well then at least we'd have an EXCUSE ...

My husband and I were downtown walking down Wabash a few weekends ago, headed north toward the river and that giant TRUMP sign was ahead of us and it was like this alternate reality ... I said to my husband, "that is SO FUCKING WEIRD, man, I do real estate closings for sales in that building all the fucking time and here THAT GUY IS GONNA BE PRESIDENT, I just can't wrap my head around it."

It's like Mr. Potter from "It's a Wonderful Life" was just elected President.

http://i.imgur.com/jkg0QbH.png

Louie_Cypher
12-11-2016, 06:26 PM
maybe i am being a delusional paranoid, but things seem to be lining up for something very bad, "something wicked this way comes" and he sign's it with a capitol T, i really hope i'm wrong.
-louie

Baphomette
12-11-2016, 11:53 PM
Hahaha well then at least we'd have an EXCUSE ...

My husband and I were downtown walking down Wabash a few weekends ago, headed north toward the river and that giant TRUMP sign was ahead of us and it was like this alternate reality ... I said to my husband, "that is SO FUCKING WEIRD, man, I do real estate closings for sales in that building all the fucking time and here THAT GUY IS GONNA BE PRESIDENT, I just can't wrap my head around it."

It's like Mr. Potter from "It's a Wonderful Life" was just elected President.

http://i.imgur.com/jkg0QbH.png
Can I borrow your They Live glasses, please? I need to do some recon.

Jinsai
12-12-2016, 06:57 AM
Greenwald squashed that WaPo article. So now, Trump supporters are calling this CIA thing "fake news".

Trump supporters are basically saying "why would we believe the agency who said there were WMD in Iraq"

Greenwald's take doesn't supersede a voiced concern from the CIA, and it definitely doesn't excuse Trump's knee-jerk "oh fuck that that's total bullshit!" response.

Trump will be president... but really, I don't know why anyone is pushing back against looking into this further. To dismiss it immediately as nonsense is basically like saying to the CIA "thanks for the info, but I don't give a fuck what your intelligence is... whomever you are.... the Central.... something or whatever Agency. Get the fuck out of here! I have bigger things to worry about! Like appointing positions to the old guard of extremist republicans to cabinet positions, throwing in some new alt-right new blood to get some good fair and balance in there, and while I'm at it, maybe I'll bitch about a musical. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to playing this round of golf, and wondering what I'm going to do about the fact that even Sarah Palin is calling me irresponsible now... Thank god I'm letting my daughter Ivanka handle some of this stuff for me. Jeez, being president is hard... I mean, it's like people actually are CONSTANTLY looking at what you're doing and asking why you're doing such stupid shit!!!!"

Deepvoid
12-12-2016, 07:05 AM
Greenwald's take doesn't supersede a voiced concern from the FBI.

Trump will be president... but really, I don't know why anyone is pushing back against looking into this further. To dismiss it immediately as nonsense is basically like saying to the CIA "thanks for the info, but I don't give a fuck what your intelligence is... whomever you are.... the Central.... something or whatever Agency. Get the fuck out of here! I have bigger things to worry about! Like appointing positions to the old guard of extremist republicans to cabinet positions, throwing in some new alt-right new blood to get some good fair and balance in there, and while I'm at it, maybe I'll bitch about a musical. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to get back to playing this round of golf, and wondering what I'm going to do about the fact that even Sarah Palin is calling me irresponsible now... Thank god I'm letting my daughter Ivanka handle some of this stuff for me. Jeez, being president is hard... I mean, it's like people actually are CONSTANTLY looking at what you're doing and asking why you're doing such stupid shit!!!!"

I absolutely agree with you that he shouldn't have thrown the CIA under the bus like that and as a responsible President-elect, he should be calling for a thorough investigation of any interference on American democracy.
BUT all the norms and principles have been thrown out the window with Trump. By now, you should know that Trump will do as he pleases. Not what he's technically supposed to do

Jinsai
12-12-2016, 07:12 AM
I absolutely agree with you that he shouldn't have thrown the CIA under the bus like that and as a responsible President-elect, he should be calling for a thorough investigation of any interference on American democracy.
BUT all the norms and principles have been thrown out the window with Trump. By now, you should know that Trump will do as he pleases. Not what he's technically supposed to do

And we need to KEEP calling him out on it! This cannot become normal!!!! Business-as-usual can NOT be "well, Trump gets to do and say whatever INSANE stuff he wants because he's Trump, he does what he wants."

When the president-elect just flippantly disregards intelligence from the Central Intelligence Agency?! Not to mention that he's been passing on most of his daily briefings... (http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/offered-daily-intelligence-briefings-trump-takes-pass)

Jinsai
12-12-2016, 07:23 AM
regarding the whole "fake news" and "obviously photoshopped" viral images... I've read so much exhaustive shit about all this my head is spinning. I have so many notes I feel like I should just start putting it into a book.

The way this is all affecting the dissemination of news and misinformation is manifesting in a frightening new and technologically complex way. Couple that with a large voter base that is completely ignorant to the way that images can be incredibly easily altered by someone with practically no photoshop experience, and you have a dangerous boiling pot... and the passable level for what these idiots are willing to unquestionably believe is currently being tested.

I wonder, on some level, if there's an urgent need to fight back against it. What if we start photoshopping pictures of Mike Pence and Donald Trump making out and working towards second-base... while Steve Bannon, Karl Rove, Roger Stone, and Vladimir Putin choke back tears and smile wistfully in the background... All you need is a caption: Pence and Trump involved in Extramarital Twist at the Behest of His Campaign Team!!!! You won't believe the shocking pictures that followed! Click here for the slide show!"

I don't know... I know, first amendment first amendment... it's my favorite.... but shouldn't it be illegal on some level to intentionally make shit up to influence the way people vote by strategically disseminating outrageous lies? I still cannot believe that there was such a thing as pizza gate, and last I heard the poor guy who ran the pizza parlor was getting threats regularly.

joplinpicasso
12-12-2016, 11:08 AM
I don't know... I know, first amendment first amendment... it's my favorite.... but shouldn't it be illegal on some level to intentionally make shit up to influence the way people vote by strategically disseminating outrageous lies? I still cannot believe that there was such a thing as pizza gate, and last I heard the poor guy who ran the pizza parlor was getting threats regularly.
I still hold the belief that freedom of speech is the best error-correcting mechanism we have, as a society, but I do wonder if those hundreds of years from now will say that we got freedom of speech 'wrong' in some way.

Exocet
12-12-2016, 12:51 PM
Of course they tried to influence the election, they have been doing this shit for years, they are doing it all over the west, they did it with Brexit and are going overdrive now in France and Germany..,
They are doing other stuff probably, but from what i gather though the Russian interference just mostly seems to be annoying spamming of comment sections on websites by trolls.
Kremlin has many state sponsored troll factories.
They use really Anglo Saxon names like James Smith or Elizabeth Brown and then write the most Anti Western bile. Sometimes its so obvious.
I thought the Wikileaks thing was a leak by someone on the inside not a hack,
Not denying the Russia problem though...the Atlantic has been overly hysterical with Trumps win but this is a scary article that hold weight..

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/12/russia-liberal-democracy/510011/?utm_source=twb

allegro
12-12-2016, 01:15 PM
Senate to probe reports of Russia election hacking (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-russia-hacking-investigation-donald-trump-20161212-story.html). "Two key Senate Republicans — John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, a leading Trump critic — have joined with two Democrats in seeking a bipartisan investigation into the Kremlin's activities during the election."

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell: "The Russians are not our friends."

See also. (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/john-mccain-donald-trump-russia-hacking-response/)

McCain pretty much echo's Exocet's above-referenced Atlantic's article.

allegate
12-12-2016, 02:42 PM
Did you sleep through the last election?

Sanders vs Hillary... Sanders came out massively on top when it came to optics.

Hillary vs Trump... Tell me that optics didn't have a massive part in the end result.

Maybe it's my headache, but I'm pretty sure I said "everyone" is compromised "in some way" meaning that there's dirt everywhere. At this point, it's a matter of making 'their' dirt seem worse than your own.

Swykk
12-12-2016, 03:13 PM
Can I ask what might be a dumb question? What is the end game of investigating Russia hacking the election? Will it result in walking back the results of said election? A redo? If not, what's the purpose?

I've been trying to not dive too deep into this shit post election because it just gets me upset and I don't think a lot of it (the recount effort, for example) matters at this juncture, so no real good reason to be pissed until Trump's inauguration. I obviously am not sticking my head in the sand either. I read about Trump's cabinet appointments (which are all varying degrees of horrifying).

allegro
12-12-2016, 03:14 PM
The CIA has not made an official statement on this.
The CIA briefed key Senators in a closed-door meeting. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-orders-review-of-russian-hacking-during-presidential-campaign/2016/12/09/31d6b300-be2a-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?tid=a_inl-amp&utm_term=.acc6378b2acf)


The CIA shared its latest assessment with key senators in a closed-door briefing on Capitol Hill last week, in which agency officials cited a growing body of intelligence from multiple sources. Agency briefers told the senators it was now “quite clear” that electing Trump was Russia’s goal, according to the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters.

The CIA doesn't generally issue press releases on such matters while the investigation is ongoing.


Can I ask what might be a dumb question? What is the end game of investigating Russia hacking the election? Will it result in walking back the results of said election? A redo? If not, what's the purpose?

Nobody really knows at this point, other than we need to know that another government was deliberately trying to affect the outcome of the election so that we can try to stop it from happening in the future AND we can use this against Russia by continuing our sanctions. Also, see the Face the Nation interview with McCain, above (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/john-mccain-donald-trump-russia-hacking-response/), where he says that "Cyber" wars will be our real wars in the future and we are REALLY weak in that area and we need to strengthen our cyber capabilities.

Presideo
12-12-2016, 03:36 PM
Can I ask what might be a dumb question? What is the end game of investigating Russia hacking the election? Will it result in walking back the results of said election? A redo? If not, what's the purpose?

I don't think a redo is feasible; whether it's confirmed that Russia actively tried to sway American votes or not, the votes for Trump were still legit. It's not like the Russians hacked the ballot boxes.

The most a full-scale inquiry into this will solve is to give transparency into Russia's full involvement (or lack thereof), and to help prevent foreign countries from attempting to sway American votes in the future.

implanted_microchip
12-12-2016, 03:42 PM
where he says that "Cyber" wars will be our real wars in the future and we are REALLY weak in that area and we need to strengthen our cyber capabilities.

Thank god we might just be able to get Baron Trump appointed as Cyber Czar; after all, he is just tremendous with that cyber

Deepvoid
12-12-2016, 03:51 PM
"President-elect Trump selects Goldman Sachs President Gary Cohn as director of National Economic Council"

For those keeping score at home, this is the third Goldman executives in Trump's cabinet.

Vertigo
12-12-2016, 05:26 PM
Ugh, jesus buttockwanking christ. I've only really started paying attention to US politics in the last few years, but is there precedent for assigning corporate bosses to White House jobs? It seems flagrantly corrupt to a ridiculous degree.

Khrz
12-12-2016, 05:57 PM
Well, allegro had a point earlier. You prefer overt corporate whores to gain political clout, or political whores fresh out their corporate jobs? At least here, the conflicts of interest are pretty clear...

Note that I can't believe I'm writing this.

Louie_Cypher
12-12-2016, 08:15 PM
does anybody remember what happened to the last president that pissed off the CIA?
#lookonthe bright-side
-louie

Baphomette
12-12-2016, 08:30 PM
Ugh, jesus buttockwanking christ. I've only really started paying attention to US politics in the last few years, but is there precedent for assigning corporate bosses to White House jobs? It seems flagrantly corrupt to a ridiculous degree.Yes. See: Olden days.

Frozen Beach
12-12-2016, 09:15 PM
does anybody remember what happened to the last president that pissed off the CIA?
#lookonthe bright-side
-louie
This is honestly a disgusting comment and goes too far. Hoping for his death? I don't like Trump like a lot of people, but this? No fucking thank you.

Jinsai
12-12-2016, 09:22 PM
Can I ask what might be a dumb question? What is the end game of investigating Russia hacking the election? Will it result in walking back the results of said election? A redo? If not, what's the point

because if it's true, it is VERY disturbing, especially when Trump seems to be merely annoyed by the very suggestion that we even look into it. It could imply that our democratic voting process has possibly be compromised with ill intent!

what we do about that is another matter

Deepvoid
12-12-2016, 09:47 PM
Fake News: How a Partying Macedonian Teen Earns Thousands Publishing Lies
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/fake-news-how-partying-macedonian-teen-earns-thousands-publishing-lies-n692451


Holy shit, this is exactly what I assumed was going on. A lot of my friends had the same story 15-20 years ago, but back then it was spamming. There are lots of ways kids on the internet can make money that are in moral gray areas, and sometimes its not even legal. But when the money is this good and it requires some above average technical skill, it's going to attract kids in similar situations/environments. Time rich; cash poor. My best friend in high school was walking into the local bank to cash checks made out by a porn company. He was a minor at the time and got amazingly concerned looks. Everything in this article gave me weird nostalgia.


This bit makes me so happy for these kids:

The influx of money has created a thriving party culture in Veles.

On Saturday, one local nightclub was barely keeping up with demand, as dozens of teens and young adults ordered ice buckets filled with large $35 bottles of vodka.

In this new era, the purveyors of fake news are the coolest kids in the schoolyard.

"Since fake news started, girls are more interested in geeks than macho guys," says one 17-year-old girl standing at the bar.

The most successful fake-news publishers have "bought themselves houses, apartments, maybe invested in some real estate or in some businesses," according to Dimitri. "They have bought themselves cars, they have bought ... their girlfriends better cars, better places to live," he says.

"I've been doing this job for 18 years and I know everyone in the city," he says. "I know kids who are minors, 16 or 17 years old, and they bought BMWs after running these websites."

Wait a minute... this is legal? I mean I get posting wild conspiracy theories like Infowars but posting blating lies for profit is a thing?? Jesus christ...

allegro
12-13-2016, 12:03 AM
Yes, this is the WaPo article that cited "anonymous officials" I was talking about. Also, it's only in reference to the email leaks from months ago. Why that's suddenly coming back after Trump has won is open to speculation. It's also a FAR cry from "Russia hacked the election" claims that make you imagine Russian state agents altering vote totals.

McCain was one of the Senators briefed, that's why the Senate investigation is being initiated.


The CIA shared its latest assessment with key senators in a closed-door briefing on Capitol Hill last week, in which agency officials cited a growing body of intelligence from multiple sources. Agency briefers told the senators it was now “quite clear” that electing Trump was Russia’s goal, according to the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss intelligence matters.

The CIA presentation to senators about Russia’s intentions fell short of a formal U.S. assessment produced by all 17 intelligence agencies. A senior U.S. official said there were minor disagreements among intelligence officials about the agency’s assessment, in part because some questions remain unanswered.

There's a rift between the CIA and the FBI. This is the CIA's investigation which is separate from the FBI (they hate each other). I don't think anybody is "making you imagine altering vote totals," necessarily; I believe that was all covered before the election, with widespread articles showing that electronic voting machines are not connected to the Internet. But "interference" happens in lots of other ways, e.g. leaking information, influencing voters, influencing the media, various puppetry

This article (http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/11/us/politics/cia-judgment-intelligence-russia-hacking-evidence.html?referer=https://www.google.com/) indicates that the difference between the FBI's and the CIA's view is motive; the CIA views Russia's motive specifically to get Trump elected; even if all that the CIA has is circumstantial evidence, it's not all THAT surprising. The Senate is calling for a full-scale investigation to obtain MORE than "circumstantial" evidence.

allegro
12-13-2016, 12:44 AM
So that's the thing. How do you make it illegal without trampling on freedom of speech? (For the sake of discussion, ignore the fact that it would be impossible to enforce on the internet and get world-wide legal unity.) I honestly can't think of a single way of making fake news illegal without opening a HUGE can of badness. In most situations, you end up giving a govt entity the power to define what is or isn't "fact." Considering how much false news spread recently (see the story on MSNBC above where they repeatedly refuse to fix blatant fake news) that sounds... dangerous. That produces a high chance of a govt news channel... ala North Korea... or whatever the fuck Trump is trying to do with the Tump TV stuff.

Spamming had a similar situation until 2003 when spamming became illegal. The focus was that these emails, landing in your inbox, were unsolicited. With the websites you don't have that as everyone is voluntarily going to the site. A big way that spam was actually fought against was by targeting what they were selling. Most of the time the products were fraudulent, scams, etc. All of that was much easier to punish. The only parallel I see on the fake news side is in the situations where trademarks are being broken if the fake news site is trying to appear identical to CNN or something.
Fake news is also problematic when it ventures into the libel or slander areas, e.g. National Enquirer or the Globe (infamous for fake news). Celebrities live with fake news every day of their lives ("Brad and Jen back together and expecting love child!!").

The only fake shit that pisses me off is the fake news clips on the bottom of web pages that are virus-laden baits etc. Facebook has that shit. Looks like news but nooooooo. I had to tell my mom, "If it says shit like 'You won't believe what Cher looks like now' DON'T CLICK ON THAT!!!!"

I think that the news media needs to do news pieces on how to Google stuff to see if the news is real or not. So people know if it's been Snoped.

allegro
12-13-2016, 12:50 AM
Sure. Using info to influence people (aka propaganda) isn't new and it's certainly not hacking.

There is a big push by Dems to make this a "scarier" problem than it is. And the Dems are constantly aligning people they dislike with Russia. It happened to Stein. It happened constantly with Trump to the point there are provable FAKE NEWS stories behind the narrative. Even Hillary pushed some herself! From claiming "doctored" emails by Russia that don't exist to the Trump's secret server for communicating with Russia that doesn't exist. They want it to be true so bad that they are willing to do that. Keep this in mind!


The worst thing they have some evidence of is that DNC/Podesta got phished by someone who may be Russian. That's been known for months and it's a far cry from a nation hacking our election.

Hacking into emails and stealing info and spreading it to influence an election is a big deal, though. Like Watergate.

The Dems are not the CIA. The Republicans are behind this "further investigation." I just saw an interview with Jennifer Palmieri on Maddow and she said Clinton conceded so that stands.

Here is the latest NY Times piece (http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/world/europe/russia-trump-election-cia-fbi.html).

The main POINT in this is RUSSIA and WHY Russia wants Trump.

Edit: Trump just chose the Exxon guy Tillerson as his Secretary of State, the guy who has done YUUUUGE deals with Russia and is buds with Vlad.

Mantra
12-13-2016, 12:52 AM
Regarding the legality of fake news...I suppose we do have defamation/libel laws, but I have no idea if those could realistically be applied in this situation.

My understanding is that successful libel cases aren't nearly as common as some people think, because the law is pretty heavily skewed to protect 1st amendment rights (and rightfully so). If you want to sue someone for libel, you have to really go above and beyond in order to demonstrate that whatever they published was in fact a lie, and you have to prove that this person KNEW it was lie and willfully pursued it anyway, and so on. It's usually pretty hard to find evidence for that kind of stuff, which is why they have such a low success rate (then again, Trump says he intends to "open up" libel laws (http://observer.com/2010/06/the-end-of-libel/) so that it's way easier for him to sue newspapers, so maybe this'll change, lol)

I actually think some of these fake news articles could theoretically meet the criteria for a successful libel case, but I really don't know.

Honestly, I think the real problem with that idea is that taking all these fake news outlets to court just isn't feasible. Yeah, you could try to make high profile examples out of a few of them and hope that it'll have a chilling effect on the others, but that approach just doesn't scale. It's like trying to stop piracy by prosecuting random pirates. It won't work. Fake news is too easy for anyone to produce, and it's too diffused (not to mention, like Digital Chaos said, it's international).

I suspect that the best solution will probably have to start with the news outlets themselves.

allegro
12-13-2016, 12:59 AM
Libel and slander are actually not that hard to prove, but people don't often have the MONEY to sue. An OPINION is not libel or slander. But Tom Cruise wins or settles slander and defamation suits all the time because of what is reported as "fact" and it is then up to the newspaper to prove it (not up to Cruise) and they can't, then it comes down to how much "damages" Cruise suffers. He's a maniac with this shit but he has the Church of Scientology suing on his behalf.

Note that precedent requires that you prove "actual malice." (http://www.ibtimes.com/tom-cruise-vs-gossip-rags-how-hard-it-win-defamation-case-853997)

Trump really never bothers suing papers for libel. He is realllly good friends with the guy who owns the National Enquirer. Which was REALLY obvious during the election when seeing the weekly Enquirer covers LOL LOL ("HILLARY IS DYING OF CANCER").

Re 1st Amendment: That gives you (limited) freedom of speech without fear of being ARRESTED or KILLED; it doesn't protect you from being fired or sued.

Swykk
12-13-2016, 08:09 AM
because if it's true, it is VERY disturbing, especially when Trump seems to be merely annoyed by the very suggestion that we even look into it. It could imply that our democratic voting process has possibly be compromised with ill intent!

what we do about that is another matter

I meant what's the point if we don't do anything about it because yes, it's very important that our voting process has been compromised but I believe it was in 2000 as well and very little was done about that. Will it make a difference that it was done by an unfriendly country instead of the brother of the president elect? I hope so.

But I really doubt anything will come of this. Trump will still be president. So again, what's the end game and why hasn't this been talked about by the people doing the investigating? Because watching that gross turtle McConnell get on TV and talk about how disgusted he is when HE SAW THE CIA REPORT AND DID NOTHING (and his wife got gifted a cabinet spot) seems to be the overall theme here. False outrage. These assholes wanted Trump because they knew they'd actually be getting Pence instead.

baudolino
12-13-2016, 09:40 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Czj_PcpVIAA8VXL.jpg:large

http://www.spin.com/2016/12/kanye-west-just-walked-into-trump-tower/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=Echobox#link_time=1481639712

Deepvoid
12-13-2016, 10:19 AM
Looks like Kanye will perform at the inauguration. Trump's team has been having issues finding anyone who wanted to perform. Looks like they found their sucker.

Mantra
12-13-2016, 10:27 AM
Hahahaha

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzkIF85WQAAZ6Vj.jpg

Presideo
12-13-2016, 10:30 AM
Seems Rick Perry is going to oversee the Department of Energy, the same department he infamously forgot about during a 2012 debate.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTNjhcyx7dM

cashpiles (closed)
12-13-2016, 10:41 AM
Hahahaha

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CzkIF85WQAAZ6Vj.jpg

Jesus, seems like their meeting ran into some bumps. They both look like they've been crying.

allegro
12-13-2016, 10:49 AM
Here is the press meeting video (https://www.google.com/amp/kdvr.com/2016/12/13/kanye-west-meets-with-donald-trump-at-trump-tower/amp/?client=safari).

allegro
12-13-2016, 10:59 AM
I meant what's the point
The POINT (as I answered already) is RUSSIA.

Trump wants to end our current sanctions against Russia and get cozy with them (likely because he wants to DO PERSONAL BUSINESS there). Lots of others in Congress (including many Republicans) consider Putin a butcher, a murderer and a threat, and have zero interest in making friends with Putin. Putin (an ex KGB guy) getting people to interfere with our election in any way so that Trump can appoint pro-Putin cabinet members (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/world/europe/rex-tillersons-company-exxon-has-billions-at-stake-over-russia-sanctions.html) (which is what Trump is doing) to lift sanctions and "Make Russia Great Again" is Putin's greatest desire.

It's about the United States wanting to NOT be a puppet government of Russia. THAT is what all of the fuss is about.

Swykk
12-13-2016, 11:25 AM
The POINT (as I answered already) is RUSSIA.

Trump wants to end our current sanctions against Russia and get cozy with them (likely because he wants to DO PERSONAL BUSINESS there). Lots of others in Congress (including many Republicans) consider Putin a butcher, a murderer and a threat, and have zero interest in making friends with Putin. Putin (an ex KGB guy) getting people to interfere with our election in any way so that Trump can appoint pro-Putin cabinet members (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/world/europe/rex-tillersons-company-exxon-has-billions-at-stake-over-russia-sanctions.html) (which is what Trump is doing) to lift sanctions and "Make Russia Great Again" is Putin's greatest desire.

It's about the United States wanting to NOT be a puppet government of Russia. THAT is what all of the fuss is about.

Maybe I'm not being clear but I thought my last post cleared everything up.

I know this (what you outlined above).

When I say "what's the point," I am wondering what is actually going to be the result of this. It looks like the typical bullshit political speak to me so far. Nobody has said, "If we find Russia interfered, THIS is what will happen as a result (new election, a deeper look with criminal charges if Trump is found to be complicit, ANYTHING AT ALL). Without consequences, what's the point of an investigation?

Am I understood now? I apologize for the confusion.

allegro
12-13-2016, 11:30 AM
Maybe I'm not being clear but I thought my last post cleared everything up.

I know this (what you outlined above).

When I say "what's the point," I am wondering what is actually going to be the result of this. It looks like the typical bullshit political speak to me so far. Nobody has said, "If we find Russia interfered, THIS is what will happen as a result (new election, a deeper look with criminal charges if Trump is found to be complicit, ANYTHING AT ALL). Without consequences, what's the point of an investigation?

Am I understood now? I apologize for the confusion.

The result will be continued sanctions against Russia, and no more Russian influence via our President. It's obvious that the direction that Trump is going is an Executive Order to lift the sanctions against Russia. See what I mean? The intended result of an investigation would be to stop him from attempting any shit like that. Look who he just chose as his Secretary of State for Christ sake.

As has been stated, NO investigation has shown that Russia literally interfered as in "tampered with ballots" or "changed votes" or "hacked ballot boxes." That did not happen, there is ZERO evidence that this did or even COULD happen. The CIA is saying that it was Russia's INTENT to deliberately "influence" the election in an attempt to get Trump elected for their own benefit, via hacked emails delivered to Wikileaks via Gucifer 2.0, etc. etc. which changes the "optics" and plants seeds of doubt. The recent information indicating that Gucifer ALSO hacked the GOP National Committee emails and did nothing further suggests this intention, per the CIA, even though there were several things found that could be "disturbing" to the public.

We can't criminally charge Russia. That's not possible. There are laws against that (mostly to cover our own ass). We use sanctions, instead.

allegro
12-13-2016, 11:38 AM
but that's another overstatement. Whatever russia may have done, it's unknown their motives. It could have been to cause instability. It could be because they dislike Hillary. It could be because they like Trump.

"Russia likes Trump. That makes Trump bad."

If you look at it from how Political Scientists are looking at it, how Russia is doing this in Eastern Europe to directly benefit themselves as a sort of expansion of Russia as imperialists, it's solely to benefit Russia. To lift sanctions, which is hurting them right now.


Or hey, we can go to war with russia

We can't afford to go to war with Russia. First, we don't have the cash; Second, American energy companies have WAY TOO MUCH MONEY invested in Russia; Third, they have us WAY beat in cyber and they'll fucking bring us down.

Swykk
12-13-2016, 11:45 AM
I wasn't expecting criminal charges for Russia but for Trump? Yes. His cabinet picks. His continued business ventures. If he is found to have been complicit with Russia. Take your pick.

But yeah, @DigitalChaos (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=598)...that's what I'm getting at. Political handwashing by the right who less than secretly wanted Trump to win and useless mud slinging by the Democrats who took their best candidate out at the knees to push a less than ideal one are now going to blame it all on Russia. I get it. It doesn't help.

allegro
12-13-2016, 12:02 PM
Personally, I watch the serious political shows like Meet the Press, Hardball, Face the Nation, and I haven't seen a lot of Dems slinging mud; I've seen mostly hardcore Republicans like John McCain, who is gonna be ONE HUGE PAIN IN TRUMP'S ASS that's for sure.

If anything I'm learning from this stuff, Trump has some Republicans who are NOT going to rubber-stamp all the shit that he does; they are going to be treating him like NIXON, now, scrutinizing his shit, and keeping a close eye on him.

He has big adversaries on his own team, and checks and balances are certainly a good thing.

There is zero evidence that Trump was abetting in the Russian hacking; and choosing cabinet members isn't criminal; we don't even know if these people will be approved by the Senate, yet.

What IS interesting is this 'briefing' thing. I saw a former head of the CIA on Hardball last night who said that Bill Clinton read his daily security briefs himself, he didn't have them read to him, either, and if this is what Trump is doing, it's a "nothingburger." HOWEVER, I'm seeing other CIA people who are saying that if Trump is not at least reading the morning security briefings, this is a "dereliction of duties."

His continued business ventures is going to be called into question, for sure. Criminal proceedings? No. Requests for him to relieve himself of those dealings or face impeachment? Possibly. A full investigation? I'm willing to bet on it. The conflict of interest is going to be a BIG thing.

And I think it's myopic to think that our own stupid political failings brought down the Democratic candidate and helped Trump win, vs. the influence of Russian hackers. As somebody who was in marketing in advertising for years and knows the power of persuasion and negative advertising all too well (and how it works against females far more than against males, case in point Bill Clinton who won two times in spite of widespread news of affairs and sexual harassment and savings & loan scandals), Russia is brilliant and we're fucking stupid.

Russia: Na Zdorovie

Swykk
12-13-2016, 12:07 PM
I certainly hope so but not with a lot of hope.

allegro
12-13-2016, 12:17 PM
Well, as I said, Trump already made his Checkmate move: Mike Pence.

Mantra
12-13-2016, 02:00 PM
I think it's worth noting that the sanctions against Russia are no joke. Between that and the falling oil prices, they're hurting bad. The ruble has tanked since the sanctions started in 2014 and their economy has been in a recession. The have serious problems with inflation, rising interest rates, limited access to financing, etc. They definitely want out of those sanctions, like ASAP.

The thing is, sanctions hurt both ways, so there are European and American companies who have lost money because they benefit from Russian trade. For example, Exxon Mobil claimed to have lost out on over a billion dollars of potential revenue in 2015 due to the sanctions: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/02/27/heres-what-exxons-lost-from-russia-sanctions/#33ea06b956b3

I suspect that these companies think of it like "Who cares what he's doing in Ukraine? That's none of our business, and we've got money to make."

allegro
12-13-2016, 02:57 PM
The thing is, sanctions hurt both ways, so there are European and American companies who have lost money because they benefit from Russian trade. For example, Exxon Mobil claimed to have lost out on over a billion dollars of potential revenue in 2015 due to the sanctions: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/02/27/heres-what-exxons-lost-from-russia-sanctions/#33ea06b956b3
Exactly, I linked this a few posts up (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/12/world/europe/rex-tillersons-company-exxon-has-billions-at-stake-over-russia-sanctions.html).


Now that President-elect Donald J. Trump has chosen Rex W. Tillerson, the chief executive of Exxon Mobil, to be the next secretary of state, the giant oil company stands to make some major gains as well: It has billions of dollars in deals that can go forward only if the United States lifts sanctions against Russia.

As head of America’s largest oil company, Mr. Tillerson has earned a friendship award from Russia and voiced skepticism about American sanctions that have halted some of Exxon Mobil’s biggest projects in the country.

But Mr. Tillerson’s stake in Russia’s energy industry could create a very blurry line between his interests as an oilman and his role as America’s leading diplomat.

“The chances that he will view Russia with Exxon Mobil DNA are close to 100 percent,” said Robert Weissman, the president of Public Citizen, a public interest group based in Washington.

Exxon Mobil has various projects afoot in Russia that are allowed under American sanctions. But others have been ground to a halt by the sanctions, including a deal with the Russian state oil company to explore and pump in Siberia that could be worth tens of billions of dollars.

Russian officials have optimistically called the agreement a $500 billion deal.

As for Mr. Tillerson personally, he was scheduled to retire next year from Exxon Mobil. According to company filings this year, Mr. Tillerson owned $218 million in company stock, and his pension plan was worth nearly $70 million.

Jinsai
12-13-2016, 03:58 PM
Will it make a difference that it was done by an unfriendly country instead of the brother of the president elect? I hope so.

It would make an ENORMOUS difference. It's an entirely different thing. They could have fought for a recount in Florida, but it would have delayed the natural process which is set to a strict series of deadlines. Those deadlines are there to keep us from quibbling endlessly; filibustering the transition in a way.

But if our Cold War enemies are tampering with elections? HOLY SHIT! This wouldn't be the first time they've done it; they've been caught red handed (pun intended?) fucking around with the outcomes of foreign elections. Maybe the whole Ukraine thing was a test for things to come, and how best to hide their trails... then holy shit this could be an opening chess move.

Either way, FUCK YOU KANYE WEST. If you don't get on stage and scream "fuck this pumpkin faced scumfuck piece of shit unqualified petulant power-hungry little man, fuck you" then goddamn it, I'm going to steal every copy of your record that I see on a store shelf and smash it.

Regardless, Trump almost certainly WILL be president, and anyone suggesting otherwise at this point is in the desperately bargaining stage of grief. I'm sorry guys, the doctor's right; Trump is going to assume office, and if he's impeached, you get Pence... And that guy is terrifying in a completely different way. He is like a very well put together neo-con wet-dream evangelical-cyborg super-politician.


I think that the news media needs to do news pieces on how to Google stuff to see if the news is real or not. So people know if it's been Snoped.

I refuted a Trumpeter's claim online with a Snopes link... his response?

"LOLOLOL, Snopes... fucking libtards believe anything."

But you've nailed something here for me Allegro, a really obvious "elephant in the room" moment that didn't even occur to me. The fucking National Enquirer. EVERY fucking headline! "Trump WILL Win!" "We Told You So!" "Hillary is Dying!"

I had no idea Trump and the Enquirer were in bed directly, but I thought they just fed news to the bottom feeders who want to know if Brad Pitt is getting a sex change, or if Cher is REALLY finally dying. All the pro-Trump stuff just seemed like another appeal to the idiots. It didn't occur to me that it was a print variation of all this click-bait insanity, and it's there every time, in your fucking face when you buy your groceries

Baphomette
12-13-2016, 04:13 PM
Between that and the falling oil prices, they're hurting bad.Not so much anymore. (http://www.wsj.com/articles/opec-russia-upbeat-about-securing-oil-output-deal-as-meeting-begins-1481362580)

And according to Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/timdaiss/2016/12/10/opec-russian-oil-cut-deal-pushes-up-asian-natural-gas-prices/#179656675e45), "Spot prices for Asian LNG rose by 50 cents from the previous week to around $8.1 per million British thermal units (MMBtu), their highest price point since July 2015."

allegate
12-13-2016, 05:05 PM
It would make an ENORMOUS difference. It's an entirely different thing. They could have fought for a recount in Florida, but it would have delayed the natural process which is set to a strict series of deadlines. Those deadlines are there to keep us from quibbling endlessly; filibustering the transition in a way.

But if our Cold War enemies are tampering with elections? HOLY SHIT! This wouldn't be the first time they've done it; they've been caught red handed (pun intended?) fucking around with the outcomes of foreign elections. Maybe the whole Ukraine thing was a test for things to come, and how best to hide their trails... then holy shit this could be an opening chess move.

Either way, FUCK YOU KANYE WEST. If you don't get on stage and scream "fuck this pumpkin faced scumfuck piece of shit unqualified petulant power-hungry little man, fuck you" then goddamn it, I'm going to steal every copy of your record that I see on a store shelf and smash it.

Regardless, Trump almost certainly WILL be president, and anyone suggesting otherwise at this point is in the desperately bargaining stage of grief. I'm sorry guys, the doctor's right; Trump is going to assume office, and if he's impeached, you get Pence... And that guy is terrifying in a completely different way. He is like a very well put together neo-con wet-dream evangelical-cyborg super-politician.



I refuted a Trumpeter's claim online with a Snopes link... his response?

"LOLOLOL, Snopes... fucking libtards believe anything."

But you've nailed something here for me Allegro, a really obvious "elephant in the room" moment that didn't even occur to me. The fucking National Enquirer. EVERY fucking headline! "Trump WILL Win!" "We Told You So!" "Hillary is Dying!"

I had no idea Trump and the Enquirer were in bed directly, but I thought they just fed news to the bottom feeders who want to know if Brad Pitt is getting a sex change, or if Cher is REALLY finally dying. All the pro-Trump stuff just seemed like another appeal to the idiots. It didn't occur to me that it was a print variation of all this click-bait insanity, and it's there every time, in your fucking face when you buy your groceries
Fun fact - The Enquirer is the only paper to endorse Trump.

In this post-truth world, who really cares to check.

something I was thinking, since we're talking about papers: Do you think that the sheer number of endorsements that basically all said "you're an idiot if you vote for trump" helped him get some votes? Still looking at post-truth here, anti-intellectualism at work?

Exocet
12-13-2016, 10:35 PM
Its his ignorance to Russia which worries me...Russia will never be a friend to the U.S...

Russia is at its core an AUTOCRATIC state....its always been that way.. they have a different mindset....

Everyone in Europe knows this.....he does not seem to

onthewall2983
12-14-2016, 12:25 AM
The fucking National Enquirer. EVERY fucking headline! "Trump WILL Win!" "We Told You So!" "Hillary is Dying!"

I had no idea Trump and the Enquirer were in bed directly, but I thought they just fed news to the bottom feeders who want to know if Brad Pitt is getting a sex change, or if Cher is REALLY finally dying. All the pro-Trump stuff just seemed like another appeal to the idiots. It didn't occur to me that it was a print variation of all this click-bait insanity, and it's there every time, in your fucking face when you buy your groceries

The minute I had some doubt that he was going to fail was the first cover of the Enquirer with a Trump endorsement on it. And as you intimated, it hasn't stopped either. You touch on something else that's also a little scary as to what it says about us. That is a dying publication, they have no modern social media presence at all and I'm sure there's nobody under 50 who buys it in any kind of impressive numbers. But we all go through grocery store checkouts and are subjected to it whether we want to be or not. It would be impossible to know because people would dismiss the idea, but I am sure there is a percentage of Trump's voters, that crosses the boundaries of their target audience, who were subliminally coaxed by seeing those kinds of headlines every time they're in the store.