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Jinsai
11-12-2016, 11:34 AM
But worrying does no good. Activism is the only thing that can help. This ain't the first time a Republican has been in there and it sure as hell won't be the last. Since we can't insure a way to keep them out permanently, activism is the only way to fight.

im not being sarcastic... What do you think is a truly effective form of activism right now that will see to climate change not being ignored, or the Geneva convention ignored. The protests rolling out are turning into shit shows

cashpiles (closed)
11-12-2016, 11:59 AM
Aren't we supposedly past the tipping point, already? Like, even if China stopped spewing our iPhone pollution today it is probably too late and Florida is sunk?


Trust me, iPhone production is not one of the major sources of pollution in China.

Number 1 is coal burning for power generation.
Others are vehicle exhaust and factories producing chemicals, metal alloys and plastics.

botley
11-12-2016, 12:05 PM
Aren't we supposedly past the tipping point, already? Like, even if China stopped spewing our iPhone pollution today it is probably too late and Florida is sunk?
Certain parts of the world were already fucked (Florida for sure (http://buff.ly/2fIXOgk)), now it's looking like a runaway train to Venus-like global climate before I reach pensionable age. A massive continent-wide carbon tax, with proceeds invested entirely in renewable energy was the last best hope — and with the Republicans controlling all three Houses it's all gone Pete Tong.

Other countries will follow the USA's example. And it'll be business as usual right over the cliff.

botley
11-12-2016, 01:06 PM
The problem, as I see it, with activism on climate change (and I've been doing it my whole adult life) is scale. We cannot individually comprehend the impact this problem is having on a devastatingly global level. Certainly not while government is in denial. How do you explain it the same way you can make those other issues emotionally relevant? Government has got to lead, legislate practical solutions, but instead we're getting MORE CLEAN COAL! Hahaha excuse me?

Jinsai
11-12-2016, 01:12 PM
Trust me, iPhone production is not one of the major sources of pollution in China.

Number 1 is coal burning for power generation.
Others are vehicle exhaust and factories producing chemicals, metal alloys and plastics.

But it is a product that is manufactured under slave labor conditions for pennies on the dollar and then sold in this country for a fortune. I thought you were the Trump supporter. This is pretty much the only area I agree with him with, but I think it's too late to reign it in; we don't have the leverage anymore.

If we were saying this in the late 80s, it'd be a short road to resolving the issue. Now, it's an institution.

Deepvoid
11-12-2016, 02:10 PM
So I just read that if Dems lose one more state legislature, the GOP will be able to propose constitutional amendments unopposed.

Vertigo
11-12-2016, 02:19 PM
Thing is, climate change isn't something that's near-impossible to tackle like it was at the time of An Inconvenient Truth. We don't all have to ride bicycles, grow our own food and pay 50% more tax. If you run an electric car, you're significantly reducing your carbon footprint. If that car is built at a factory with locally-sourced materials and powered by renewable energy, the reduction is massive. If you charge that car and your house with renewable energy, you're annihilating that footprint. Same applies for substituting some-to-all of your beef intake with pork, venison, white meat, fish or vegetarian stuff (in reverse order of impact effect).

In the '90s and early '00s, the few electric cars in the world (which the manufacturers didn't really want to sell, long story) couldn't go very far and didn't make much sense; solar panels cost a fortune. But we're now living in a world where electric cars can go up to 300 continuous miles and recharge in half an hour at a motorway service station, only cost a bit more than their combustion equivalents (and are set to reach parity in a few years) and are great to drive. We're also living in a world where renewable energy is cheaper than coal, hydroponics can massively increase volumetric crop yields, and recycling infrastructure is widespread.

So the solution is out there, and doesn't even need sacrifices for the consumer, just a few changes. What it REALLY needs is for the government to push these solutions at every opportunity while taxing the problematic status quo, because consumers don't embrace change, and automakers and energy providers are beholden to fossil fuel interests.

botley
11-12-2016, 02:29 PM
Yeah and you guys just elected a bunch of dudes who are invested to the hilt on all of that NOT happening. Again.

Exocet
11-12-2016, 03:44 PM
This woman is part of the problem.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s1SaD-gSZO4

allegro
11-12-2016, 04:12 PM
This woman is part of the problem.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s1SaD-gSZO4

No that was AWESOME!!!!!!!

hellospaceboy
11-12-2016, 04:49 PM
No that was AWESOME!!!!!!!
I don't get the initial post, I think she was awesome too!

cashpiles (closed)
11-12-2016, 05:32 PM
But it is a product that is manufactured under slave labor conditions for pennies on the dollar and then sold in this country for a fortune. I thought you were the Trump supporter. This is pretty much the only area I agree with him with, but I think it's too late to reign it in; we don't have the leverage anymore.

If we were saying this in the late 80s, it'd be a short road to resolving the issue. Now, it's an institution.

Slave conditions absolutely. The Chinese Government gives 2 fucks about workers' rights. And in a typical office, workers are expected to work overtime and not get paid anything for those hours.

I think globalization is partly to blame for the offshore production (which many governments support...for multiple reasons).

Because of the economic inequalities between different countries, we have this situation. Eventually those inequalities would somewhat balance out (if the world became truly globalized and unified), but that time - if it even ever arrives - is far from now.

Until then, businesses will take advantage of the global economic inequalities.... to stay afloat, to deliver products to consumers at lower prices, to save money that can be used to further expand their businesses.

I do have a plan. Companies can offer lower wages to Americans so that production happens in America, but those companies would provide housing for their employees and even company cars.

Here's the thing. Smaller companies can manufacture/produce in America, if they sell products for rich people in America and around the world. Mega corporations simply can't do this. They go for mass sales at lower price points. They require cheaper labor.

Exocet
11-12-2016, 06:02 PM
I don't get the initial post, I think she was awesome too!

It does not offend me personally. But just an observation...You want to win elections right?
Notice the dislike bar on the video....she is turning people away..she says .'its pretty clear who ruined America white people'

I just feel this punishing stance from the left.... is pushing people to the right......
its happening all over the world. EVERYWHERE. Donald Trump is the most awful example SO FAR.
Why are so many people leaving the left???
Isnt it a theory that the democrats lost the election because they spent to much time focusing on identity politics?
Like that video Digital Chaos posted is just assessing what the left can do next.
trying to draw them in rather than push them away...

aggroculture
11-12-2016, 07:23 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/swing-state-margins/
so depressing

Jinsai
11-12-2016, 08:02 PM
I just feel this punishing stance from the left.... is pushing people to the right......

You watched that video that's going around, didn't you?

Exocet
11-12-2016, 09:02 PM
You watched that video that's going around, didn't you?

Yes but since Brexit in June.... ive been watching the U.S election...and the comparisons were to quote Glen Greenwald 'overwhelming' ..so many on the left with their eyes closed.
I could see what they were doing wrong....there was just this real repellant smug vibe from the left which made me think...no wonder we Brexited.....then oh fuck...American election in November...noooo!!
I even got slated on this board. For saying i was 100 percent certain Trump would certainly win in JULY this year.

I know Hillary really won, but it was fucking Donald Trump, how can this happen im saying, just learn from mistakes.
Try reconnect with those people who turned to Trump. Dont call every one of the 60 Million who voted for him racist or misogynistic...dont write their concerns like immigration off.

slave2thewage
11-12-2016, 09:25 PM
this picture makes me ill
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cw-xA6nXgAAKJ4u.jpg
Why do they all look like awful drag queens? Like, the awful 'opening for a 11th place Ru Girl in Scottsdale' kind of drag. Those wigs look so cheap.

Baphomette
11-13-2016, 12:30 AM
This is one of the most fucked up/disgusting protest signs I've ever seen. Fuck the person who made it.
http://i.imgur.com/h6Xgq5N.jpg
Photoshopped.

Harry Seaward
11-13-2016, 01:31 AM
This is one of the most fucked up/disgusting protest signs I've ever seen. Fuck the person who made it.
http://i.imgur.com/h6Xgq5N.jpg

Looks pretty fake.

Harry Seaward
11-13-2016, 01:33 AM
Here is an incident from from SF Bay Area.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6MDq9y8xoc

Welcome to high school.

Although we don't know if they deserved it. Maybe she shouldn't have dressed that way.

/s

Harry Seaward
11-13-2016, 01:46 AM
I wrote a post on another forum re: Trump supporters constantly asking for evidence when faced with anybody saying that Trump may have said some outrageous or anti-minority things throughout his campaign. Tough premise to believe, I know. Thought I'd share it here.



He said he wouldn't rule out registering Muslim American citizens into a database. That's one of the most straightforward examples that can't be wiggled out of.

The main issue is that Trump followers always ask, "Give me a direct in-context quote where Trump is being openly, directly racist." But have you guys never heard of dogwhistles? (That's rhetorical. Of course you have.) Trump has built his entire campaign on a backbone of 'good ole boy' white pride and not so subtle indirect persecution of mexicans, Muslims, blacks, women, etc. Not to mention the outward xenophobia and American nationalism. It's an obvious conscious decision because it's exactly what his base wants. But then he dresses it up in vague observations and then dances around it and denies ever having said things when confronted, because that's what politicians do.

Also, uh... one of the main things Donald Trump has been known for, for the duration of his ~40 years as a New Yorker and later as a national celebrity, is his Trump Brand Racism. (https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughTrumpSpam/comments/4r2yxs/a_final_response_to_the_tell_me_why_trump_is/) Any New Yorker could have explained this to you, decades before this election. Hell, any American could have explained it to you decades before this election. But of course, there's no shortage of examples for you to excuse away.

So Trump followers think that unless he goes on O'Reilly and says "I hate spics and ragheads and fat pig women." then it's irrefutable proof that Trump doesn't have an anti-minority bone in his body (or his policy plans.)

It's like how he says women "let him" kiss them and grope their genitals and his followers interpret "let him" as consent. But in reality, "let him" means not actively fighting back out of fear because he's a rich celebrity. It in no way implies the women desire it, request it, consent to it - nothing. It's clear to anybody looking at it objectively that what he's describing is sexual assault. But his followers actively play stupid and dress up every on the face horrible thing he says as some innocent remark that would be impossible to misconstrue or interpret any way other than as innocuous. Or of course it's just the liberal bias shill Zionist media twisting his words. With how they describe the media, you'd expect to turn on CNN and have them play a video of words he's said spliced together to say "I...HATE...bla...ck...People!, and...just wish...they would...DIE!"

That's why these conversations are almost never constructive. You lay out a list of things Trump has said. Things that every neutral mature adult or professional or general public without a dog in this fight can tell you are outrageous, horrible, or grossly inappropriate at best and disgusting, racist, or sexist at worst. You lay out this list of Trump's own words and actions that you can't imagine would ever be defensible and in response, from his followers, you get, "I don't see what the big deal is." or "The media is twisting his words." or "He was taken out of context." or "Here's an example of him saying the exact opposite." or whatever other excuse they already have planned out for him before they even hear the evidence. It's a condemnation of crass despicable behavior that his followers interpret as blind partisanship and political bickering and dismiss it without a second thought - without even giving two seconds to think about it and weigh whether or not everybody but them might have a point.

You'd think that if you picked one of his followers at random, showed them everything Trump has ever said and done, they would be able to find at least one thing to admit that, 'yeah he really shouldn't have said that' or 'yeah I can't defend that.' But no! There's nothing 99.99% of them won't defend! Out of the thousands of Trump followers whose comments I've read or I've spoken to, maybe 5 of them have been able to admit that something he said was indefensible. Even his fucking Vice President has refused to defend multiple thing he's said. Things he's been condemned by his own fucking party for! His own family has had to distance themselves from his statements at times. He had his Twitter account taken away by his campaign because he just could not stop being outrageously inflammatory.

But nope, it's always just "I don't see anything wrong with that" from his followers. He's a perfect little boy. Dindu nuffin.

icklekitty
11-13-2016, 10:17 AM
I trust most of you don't believe Fox News, but just in case.

The leader of the opposition in the U.K. is called Jeremy Corbyn for the Labour Party. Nigel Farage isn't even an elected politician in the House of Commons. His meeting with Trump is the equivalent of Angela Merkel having a political discussion with Honey Boo Boo.

Sutekh
11-13-2016, 12:12 PM
icklekitty thank you! He is such a sad little man, he obviously told them that was his title. His seedy little party only has one MP and it isnt him! Only the Queen gets to appoint her majesty' s (fucking hint hint, Nigel) opposition.

I was utterly disappointed to see a BBC article referring to him as an "opposition politician". "Some guy" would be more appropriate

WorzelG
11-13-2016, 12:16 PM
Even the actual Leave campaign told Farage to fuck off. I wish Farage would do what he said he'd do after the referendum which was to leave politics but he's obviously getting used to the attention

Sutekh
11-13-2016, 04:11 PM
Looks pretty fake.

I find it very odd that somebody could make it down the street, through the crowd and to the front without anyone kicking the Shit out of them. Especially in a crowd of angry liberal activists

xmd 5a
11-13-2016, 04:27 PM
Now that Alex Jones' fav is going to be in power I wonder what the Infowars line will be on any attacks/shootings/disasters that occur...

-They're genuine and the GLERBERLERSTS did it to get at Trump
-They're false flags by anti-Trump ppl in the government to try to make him look bad
-They're false flags done by Trump because the Illuminati brainwashed him and he's they're puppet now so please buy all this prepper stuff right now hurry hurry hurry

Harry Seaward
11-13-2016, 04:29 PM
Nigel Farage isn't even an elected politician in the House of Commons. His meeting with Trump is the equivalent of Angela Merkel having a political discussion with Honey Boo Boo.[/FONT][/COLOR]

I'm really confused that you contradicted your own analogy. If Farage is not a politician, how is he analogous to Merkel??

Sutekh
11-13-2016, 04:32 PM
She said he's not an MP, not he isn't a politician.

Farage is an MEP (for the time being), he has always failed to get enough votes to become an MP in the commons. It's extremely arguable to what degree he speaks for the people of the UK

Krazy
11-13-2016, 05:04 PM
Here is an incident from from SF Bay Area.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6MDq9y8xoc

And this one in Chicago...

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/11/12/chicago-man-attacked-beaten-you-voted-trump-orig-vstop-dlewis.cnn

implanted_microchip
11-13-2016, 05:35 PM
Steve Bannon is now Trump's chief strategist.

An openly anti-Semitic white nationalist is now gonna be in our federal government.

Tell me this is "nothing to worry about." Tell me how Hillary woulda been "just as bad if not worse." This is not normal. This is not normal at all.

People behaving as though this is all gonna blow over, I hope they're really, really correct, because I don't think so. Not at all.

Louie_Cypher
11-13-2016, 05:45 PM
just imsgine all the exercise you'll get from doing your own lawn washing your own dishes and picking your own veggies #think of the bright-side.
-louie

streetman
11-13-2016, 05:58 PM
This is so depressing. I feel like I don't even know the country I live in. We have chosen darkness over light. Hate over love. It's tragic.

Baphomette
11-13-2016, 06:02 PM
People behaving as though this is all gonna blow over, I hope they're really, really correctThey're not. But they'll keep trying to convince you it's gonna be fine regardless.

Aladdinsanity
11-13-2016, 06:31 PM
Joe Arpaio and David Clarke are being considered to head the Department of Homeland Security.

implanted_microchip
11-13-2016, 06:34 PM
They're not. But they'll keep trying to convince you it's gonna be fine regardless.

Seriously, with people like this being put in power -- I just can't buy the attitude that "everything extreme will be blocked by Congress, they'd never go for his shit!" They sure are all talking quite fondly of him now that he's won. Then we've got constant stories from inside his campaign about his "revenge" he'll be having on people like Paul Ryan and you have someone like Priebus entering his administration rather than standing out against things like Bannon happening and I just cannot believe those people that think it's going to be okay. It won't be.

And then you have leftover Sanders holdouts that didn't vote coming out of the woodwork to ... just gloat, to just act like the assholes they were all those months ago. Millennial friends of mine are just sharing Sanders memes all over again and acting like he's gonna "come save us" in 2020. They learned fucking nothing. I feel like we're at serious risk of some crazy shit coming soon and we just have weak as fuck Dems going "just accept it and respect the presidency guyz" and then these other assholes going "LOLOLOLLOL TOLD YOU SO" and acting thrilled about this and then you have Trump supporters over the moon and then, well, the rest of us are too fucking scared to being joking, laughing, gloating or in-fighting. The only Dem official I've seen say anything that seemed totally defensive of people Trump's administration is about to persecute is Harry fucking Reid and he got assblasted by his peers for it.

cashpiles (closed)
11-13-2016, 06:42 PM
Steve Bannon is now Trump's chief strategist.

An openly anti-Semitic white nationalist is now gonna be in our federal government.

Tell me this is "nothing to worry about." Tell me how Hillary woulda been "just as bad if not worse." This is not normal. This is not normal at all.

People behaving as though this is all gonna blow over, I hope they're really, really correct, because I don't think so. Not at all.

ALLEGEDLY made anti-semitic remarks... by his ex-wife

cashpiles (closed)
11-13-2016, 06:44 PM
Steve Bannon is now Trump's chief strategist.

An openly anti-Semitic white nationalist is now gonna be in our federal government.

Tell me this is "nothing to worry about." Tell me how Hillary woulda been "just as bad if not worse." This is not normal. This is not normal at all.

People behaving as though this is all gonna blow over, I hope they're really, really correct, because I don't think so. Not at all.

ALLEGEDLY made anti-semitic remarks... by his ex-wife
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-campaign-ceo-steve-bannon-accused-anti-semitic-remarks-ex-n638731

We must not let our biases distort reality.

implanted_microchip
11-13-2016, 06:58 PM
ALLEGEDLY made anti-semitic remarks... by his ex-wife
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-campaign-ceo-steve-bannon-accused-anti-semitic-remarks-ex-n638731

We must not let our biases distort reality.

You know exactly who he is and how his media operation runs, the clientele it attracts and the views he promotes. I know you're the residential subtle troll and have taken to being a little Trumpeteer around here but save it for somebody else.

Bachy
11-13-2016, 07:00 PM
It's only a matter of time . . .

https://uproxx.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/rick-morty-race-war.gif?w=650

cashpiles (closed)
11-13-2016, 07:08 PM
You know exactly who he is and how his media operation runs, the clientele it attracts and the views he promotes. I know you're the residential subtle troll and have taken to being a little Trumpeteer around here but save it for somebody else.
Breitbart is headquartered in Los Angeles, California (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles,_California), with bureaus in Texas, London, and Jerusalem. Co-founder Larry Solov is the owner and CEO. Stephen Bannon (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Bannon) serves as the publication's executive chairman, with Alexander Marlow (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Marlow) serving as the editor-in-chief.[4] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitbart_News#cite_note-Rainey_20120801-4)

Jerusalem, Kleiner...

Conceived by Andrew Breitbart during a visit to Israel (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel) in summer 2007, with the aim of founding a site "that would be unapologetically pro-freedom and pro-Israel",[9] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitbart_News#cite_note-9)

pro-israel, Kleiner

Aladdinsanity
11-13-2016, 07:31 PM
Breitbart is headquartered in Los Angeles, California (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles,_California), with bureaus in Texas, London, and Jerusalem. Co-founder Larry Solov is the owner and CEO. Stephen Bannon (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Bannon) serves as the publication's executive chairman, with Alexander Marlow (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Marlow) serving as the editor-in-chief.[4] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitbart_News#cite_note-Rainey_20120801-4)

Jerusalem, Kleiner...

Conceived by Andrew Breitbart during a visit to Israel (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel) in summer 2007, with the aim of founding a site "that would be unapologetically pro-freedom and pro-Israel",[9] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitbart_News#cite_note-9)

pro-israel, Kleiner

Anti-semitism isn't just about one's stance on Israel. Breitbart is one of the leading publications trying to muster as much legitimacy as possible to Soros conspiracies, which lands them squarely in the basket of anti-semitic fucknuttery.

https://media.giphy.com/media/hyMFaxhuQkZTq/giphy.gif

implanted_microchip
11-13-2016, 07:55 PM
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/305808-trump-on-prosecuting-clinton-i-dont-want-to-hurt-her

A M A Z I N G

M

A

Z

I

N

G

orestes
11-13-2016, 08:06 PM
ALLEGEDLY made anti-semitic remarks... by his ex-wife
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/trump-campaign-ceo-steve-bannon-accused-anti-semitic-remarks-ex-n638731

We must not let our biases distort reality.

These aren't just allegations from his ex-wife. This is court testimony so unless you're accusing her of perjury, sit down.

Harry Seaward
11-13-2016, 08:12 PM
Nigel Farage isn't even an elected politician in the House of Commons. His meeting with Trump is the equivalent of Angela Merkel having a political discussion with Honey Boo Boo.


I'm really confused that you contradicted your own analogy. If Farage is not a politician, how is he analogous to Merkel??


She said he's not an MP, not he isn't a politician.

Farage is an MEP (for the time being), he has always failed to get enough votes to become an MP in the commons. It's extremely arguable to what degree he speaks for the people of the UK

I was making a joke. Implying Trump was meant to be Honey Boo Boo. It was funny. =/

Louie_Cypher
11-13-2016, 08:44 PM
you will no longer have to worry what the maid did to your toothbrush when you weren't in the room #think oft he bright-side -louie

theruiner
11-13-2016, 08:51 PM
Joe Arpaio and David Clarke are being considered to head the Department of Homeland Security.I'm sorry, everybody. My adopted state finally came to its collective senses and sent that asshole packing and now he's going to fail up to even more power.


UGH.

Bachy
11-13-2016, 08:57 PM
On a serious note: What really concerns me is that Trump doesn't seem to have even tried to separate himself from the racist supporters. You'd think he'd at least have the common sense to try to appeal to the people and try and stop some of the senseless violence and bigotry over the last week. Instead he just seems content to whine and pout because he believes he's not being portrayed correctly by the media.

allegro
11-13-2016, 09:15 PM
On a serious note: What really concerns me is that Trump doesn't seem to have even tried to separate himself from the racist supporters. You'd think he'd at least have the common sense to try to appeal to the people and try and stop some of the senseless violence and bigotry over the last week. Instead he just seems content to whine and pout because he believes he's not being portrayed correctly by the media.
You didn't look at kleiner352's above video (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/3669-2016-Presidential-Election?p=323266#post323266), did you?

Baphomette
11-13-2016, 09:25 PM
Donald Trump: It'll be just fine.

And there you go...

Bachy
11-13-2016, 09:28 PM
You didn't look at @kleiner352 (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=4417)'s above video (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/3669-2016-Presidential-Election?p=323266#post323266), did you?

I did not. Just read some transcripts from the 60 minutes interview. Doesn't really do much to shake my pessimism.

thevoid99
11-13-2016, 10:21 PM
Everyone needs to watch the 60 Minutes interview he just did. It deflates basically every freakout that the left has been having this week.

He speaks out against hate crimes happening, telling them to knock it off.

Gay marriage - he says SCOTUS already settled it so it doesn't matter. He is fine with SCOTUS ruling.

As for a lot of his other stances on issues (The wall, immigrant deportation, Obamacare, prosecuting Hillary, etc) those were all intended to be starting points for negotiation. His wall might just be a fence in some areas. Immigrant deportation will probably just be for criminals (he's actually made that clear in the past).


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-hedges-some-campaign-promises-first-full-post-election-interview-60-minutes/

Why the fuck would I want to watch any of his bullshit? I don't want listen or see anything he says. Fuck him.

onthewall2983
11-13-2016, 10:27 PM
I think as far as marijuana he's also said something about it leaving up to the states.

Baphomette
11-13-2016, 10:53 PM
Everyone needs to watch the 60 Minutes interview he just did. It deflates basically every freakout that the left has been having this week. No, everyone does NOT need to watch it. It blows my mind that so many people have decided to completely forget the hate that's been spewing from this idiots mouth for almost two years just because his acceptance speech and this interview made them feel better. It's beyond sickening.


He speaks out against hate crimes happening, telling them to knock it off.
As should anyone with a conscience. And too bad he didn't do that earlier instead of just brushing off violence done by his "passionate" supporters (http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/08/20/a-beating-in-boston-said-to-be-inspired-by-donald-trumps-immigrant-comments/).


His wall might just be a fence in some areas. Immigrant deportation will probably just be for criminals.The Trump RNG is a thing of beauty.

Baphomette
11-13-2016, 11:12 PM
hahaha. i love it.

You've gone from having a list of reasons why Trump is going to be so bad, to admittedly and proudly plugging your ears.
edit: @Miss Baphomette (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=11) - you just drastically edited your post from "nobody should listen to him" to something a little more measured.... nice.

I sure didn't. It was accidentally erased when I dropped my keyboard.

And, no, I didn't go from a list of reasons to blah blah blah. Like I said, I don't NEED to hear anything else he says because two years of intolerance isn't going to be wiped away by one highly edited interview.

implanted_microchip
11-13-2016, 11:19 PM
One interview where he doesn't seem like a crazy person doesn't erase an entire campaign of insane shit and intolerant rhetoric. Besides, the people he is continuing to surround himself with and the cabinet he seems to be building are a lot more telling.

cashpiles (closed)
11-13-2016, 11:22 PM
I sure didn't. It was accidentally erased when I dropped my keyboard.

And, no, I didn't go from a list of reason to blah blah blah. Like I said, I don't NEED to hear anything else he says because two years of intolerance isn't going to be wiped away by one highly edited interview.

Trump is a fucking genius! Don't you see how he played ALL THE RACISTS AND BIGOTS? He USED THEM TO WIN! What a brilliant strategy: to get the votes of a large group of people that no other candidate thought of tapping into.

Truly genius strategy. He went lower than Hillary. He went all the way down, and so got more of the people.

And if you think what I'm saying is bullshit, you may also be a dumb ass. This guy played the system so hard. I love it.

(I don't like that he appointed a Pro-Life Supreme Court Judge though.)

Frozen Beach
11-13-2016, 11:27 PM
I honestly can't get behind the "Fuck what he has to say, I hate him" mentality. If I hated him so much that I legitimately hated him, I'd still keep up to tabs with whatever rhetoric he'd be putting out just so I could criticize him. This is the president of the United States, not your neighbor. If a good bit of the population hate him, then that bit needs to keep up the noise. People need to make the kind of noise like what's going on in South Korea with their president.

Aladdinsanity
11-13-2016, 11:55 PM
As for the people he is surrounding himself with, yeah they suck. But Trump sucks too. Is it really a surprise that people who dislike Trump are going to dislike the people he pulls in? We are just going to have to wait at this point. He's already given enough information in the last couple days to indicate that his campaign words may not mean much. It would be one thing if he doubled down on everything, but he is doing the opposite.
You've literally contradicted everything you just stated before that last sentence with that last sentence. Are you high?

thelastdisciple
11-14-2016, 12:09 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rSDUsMwakI

and with that. #Fuck2016

WorzelG
11-14-2016, 02:24 AM
I was looking up Breitbart because of this Bannon guy who is anti-semitic. But apparently the website was conceived to be pro Israel according to wiki??

Harry Seaward
11-14-2016, 05:01 AM
It's crazy how everybody has an opinion on how these election results happened, and they're all different. But I know the truth. Let me tell you how it happened...

The standard amount of Democrats voted along party lines for Clinton. (Discounting the unusual Obama boom in numbers.)
The standard amount of Republicans voted along party lines for Trump.
Slightly more people voted in slightly more important areas for Trump.

The reason Clinton didn't get a landslide like was expected is because most reasonable people thought, "Well there is only one legitimate candidate running. There's no way she can lose. It's not even worth bothering to vote. Meh, I'll sleep in instead." If more people had realized that Trump would be received the standard amount of GOP votes, instead of the 0 he deserved and they expected, they would have come out and voted for Clinton. Why does it have to be any more complicated than that? It's a really dumb thing, the people were really dumb not to vote. But it's understandable, there was never a point in the campaign during which Clinton wasn't leading in the polls. Even Kellyanne Conway said, "Everybody expected Clinton to win. It wasn't some liberal bias in the reporting or poll taking." Everybody keeps saying it was Clinton's fault due to being such an insanely despised politician. She most assuredly is, but she got the standard amount of votes regardless, no?

I dunno. I'm obviously just pulling this out of my ass because I wanted to have an opinion on why this happened to me.

Why did this happen to me? What did I do to deserve this? I live in Nevada - my state made the correct decision. Why can't we have two Presidents - the Democratic one presides over the states that voted blue, and vice versa. smh.

why

Jinsai
11-14-2016, 06:11 AM
Now that Alex Jones' fav is going to be in power

Let me just stop you there, and say "kill me. Please, kill me. Kill me kill me kill me. Kill me. Fucking kill me. KILL ME. What the fuck is going on? How can this be real?!"

Anyway, please continue...

Jinsai
11-14-2016, 06:30 AM
It's crazy how everybody has an opinion on how these election results happened, and they're all different. But I know the truth. Let me tell you how it happened...


The standard amount of Democrats voted along party lines for Clinton. (Discounting the unusual Obama boom in numbers.)
The standard amount of Republicans voted along party lines for Trump.
Slightly more people voted in slightly more important areas for Trump.



And I'm not dismissing your take on this, but there was a hell of a lot more at play here than that. If the Comey scandal hadn't broken at the last minute, polls be damned, they were so strongly in her favor at the point before that last dick-pic Anthony Weiner / Comey non-scandal broke out, it couldn't have gone any other way unless we truly have NO idea how to predict voter preference in even the most abstract concept.

Something about that last thing with Wiener and the whole thing with the emails becoming a thing again... it somehow had a huge effect, and the numbers dropped. I DO NOT KNOW WHY. I don't know what it was about that last scandal that was so much more damaging than the others, but it was, and it was so close to the wire that there wasn't time for damage control and repair. If the election was another day or two away, I don't think it would have mattered. I think the timing was intentional, naturally... it almost had to have been for it to be so effective, but I still can't figure out why it was. Was it the dick-related-thing? Is that something we're all cagey about still? Dick pics? The notion that there's a scandal involving that sort of thing... or was it that the very fact that the exploration of her handling her emails had resurfaced was enough to convince people that there was something there, even though once again there turned out to be pretty much nothing to get so exasperated about?

I don't know... there's something so strange about even acknowledging that the Wiener scandal poured out this way and possibly cost the democrats the election, at a crazy pivotal time in history. I don't know how Anthony Wiener lives with himself at this point... you've been so publicly ridiculed for being sad and pervey, there's sad pics of you looking darkly at a camera while you're showing off your junk to who knows... there's other aspects... stuff I don't even want to type. It's gross...

But none of the grossness had anything to with her. So why did that scandal fuck her up so much? Either way, your assessment of "why" this went the way it did is absolutely excluding almost every factor. Yes, a certain number of people came out and voted, and it was less than another year that we're comparing. We can boil it down to "enthusiasm" but that's a joke.

The truth is liberals should have been desperately biting their fingernails off to vote against Trump, and we didn't explain why. We let liberals fight progressives and the bernie or bust bullshit and all the liberal infighting blasting Clinton for bullshit that every politician is guilty of. We didn't mobilize behind the better candidate, and so ultimately we lost to a cheap-shot timed-scandal.

But if I have to see that stupid fucking video where the Jonathan Pie dork places all of the onus on the liberals for being too dismissive of the sadness and needs of the Trump-voter, I'm going to start screaming.... Not saying that's what you're saying here.... it's actually not what you're saying, but I needed to vent because I'm seeing that video reposted everywhere, and it is the most short-sighted half-argument bullshit ever. This video I've seen on almost every friend's social feed features this guy screaming at you like you're an infant, and then he tells you that you need to stop condescending to conservatives. To that guy: we didn't lose this election because we said mean things about republicans, you self-righteous misinformed jerk!

Anyway... I think it's pretty obvious why the right side of history lost to the right, and for all my misgivings, Michael Moore was a lot more on the money here than I was in the lead-up, and I thought he was just blustering to discourage the misanthropic voter. I thought he was just playing to the crowds, hopefully ensuring that they'd go vote and make this a crushing landslide. I didn't truly believe it could be anywhere near as close as it turned out to be, let alone that Trump would actually win. I had more faith in my fellow Americans than that...

But that was because I forgot that I live in a liberal city in a liberal state, and there's a reason I have only run into a handful of these Trump people. For all the arguments I've heard, I cannot possibly understand how (given that my vote ultimately was pretty much lit on fire because it went into the California overflow) we consider the electoral college system to be anything other than an anachronistic obstruction to modern democracy.

And hey, if we had a better system for the way we actually vote and account for the will of the people, we would have won it handily too... so that should also be taken into account in the "autopsy"

Sutekh
11-14-2016, 06:45 AM
It's too early to tell what he is going to be like, his backtracking on obamacare is heartening but nonetheless... breitbart in the white house

Breitbart...in the white house, lol

You've either got to be a sympathizer or a Zen master to not be alarmed by that. I'm left wing but if someone from a far left shitrag like the guardian or the canary was that close to power, I'd have a sinking feeling. Fringe people's heads are full of magic. When in history has it ever worked out well

But, who knows. Maybe it will just be business as usual with the occasional controversy that inflames the opposing side, as it was with Obama

Khrz
11-14-2016, 07:06 AM
Trump is a fucking genius! Don't you see how he played ALL THE RACISTS AND BIGOTS? He USED THEM TO WIN! What a brilliant strategy: to get the votes of a large group of people that no other candidate thought of tapping into.

That's called populism. Hardly a new thing. You play on the base instincts of the people and assure them they don't need to bother themselves with complicated thoughts like political knowledge and general awareness. It's a political fire sale where you sell everything short and caricature every complicated issue. Immigration ? Build a wall. Economy ? Blame China. Security ? Ban muslims.
It doesn't really take a genius because you don't have to explain or handle anything complicated, and you don't need to be informed on the issues you touch. In fact it works best when you straight up pull stuff out of your ass.

slave2thewage
11-14-2016, 08:18 AM
I love how similar everyone is.

Or you could stop being a cunt for one day.

botley
11-14-2016, 08:43 AM
This is the exact same shit the GOP did when Obama won. They also cried wolf so much that by the time Obama actually *did* something that was bad, nobody was listening to the GOP anymore. I love how similar everyone is.
Everything Trump has done and said is actually bad.

hellospaceboy
11-14-2016, 08:46 AM
If the Comey scandal hadn't broken at the last minute, polls be damned, they were so strongly in her favor at the point before that last dick-pic Anthony Weiner / Comey non-scandal broke out, it couldn't have gone any other way unless we truly have NO idea how to predict voter preference in even the most abstract concept.

Something about that last thing with Wiener and the whole thing with the emails becoming a thing again... it somehow had a huge effect, and the numbers dropped. I DO NOT KNOW WHY. I don't know what it was about that last scandal that was so much more damaging than the others, but it was, and it was so close to the wire that there wasn't time for damage control and repair.


The other part of the equation is that the Trump campaign understood that this latest email "scandal" was a real opportunity, so they cut him off twitter, somehow made sure he won't say/do anything inflammatory and he won't start weird fights with veterans or some other crap...

It was the last note in the election season. It didn't end on Trump's pussy-grabbing, or his taxes, but the last beat was, once again, Hillary's email scandal. (speaking of, what pisses me off is that there is real criticism towards Hillary for the way she used her server, but this FBI letter about additional emails was 100% bullshit)/

aggroculture
11-14-2016, 09:31 AM
Yep, she got swift boated.

onthewall2983
11-14-2016, 09:44 AM
Just hypothesizing here but with all these rumblings of impeachment going on, could he threaten to dismantle the electoral college, resign and hand everything to her if any of the three branches actually do it?

Louie_Cypher
11-14-2016, 10:07 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rSDUsMwakI good stuff.
-louie

Deepvoid
11-14-2016, 10:38 AM
Breitbart is headquartered in Los Angeles, California (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles,_California), with bureaus in Texas, London, and Jerusalem. Co-founder Larry Solov is the owner and CEO. Stephen Bannon (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Bannon) serves as the publication's executive chairman, with Alexander Marlow (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Marlow) serving as the editor-in-chief.[4] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitbart_News#cite_note-Rainey_20120801-4)

Jerusalem, Kleiner...

Conceived by Andrew Breitbart during a visit to Israel (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel) in summer 2007, with the aim of founding a site "that would be unapologetically pro-freedom and pro-Israel",[9] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitbart_News#cite_note-9)

pro-israel, Kleiner

Have you been to Breitbart lately? I've been lurking the site for over a year, posting comments here and there. I'm telling you, it ain't pretty. If they had the opportunity to wipe "libtards" or "lefties" off the face of the earth, they would.
Having Bannon in the WH gives these people are much stronger voice.

Sutekh
11-14-2016, 11:12 AM
Breitbart isn't anti-Semitic, the right wing has evolved - it now supports Israel as a way of being anti Muslim. In the UK we've had the interesting spectacle of right wing skinheads marching through Muslim neighbourhoods waving Israeli flags

Breitbart is what it is, it uses exasperation with liberal excess as a Trojan for anti everything except white right winger sentiment. As ever, the comments reveal what kind of moths get drawn to its flame

But trying to characterise it and it's users as traditionally far right is misunderstanding what the alt right is. They aren't nazis and if you call them that or try to portray them as such, they won't take you seriously. Which is fair enough, as its wide of the mark

Deepvoid
11-14-2016, 12:45 PM
Alex Jones is now making website The Hill headlines because "Trump called me to say thank you".
The fact that Jones is getting more and more exposure because of this election cycle isn't a good sign for the US.

allegate
11-14-2016, 12:53 PM
I'm really not a fan of Trump, and I have some serious concerns about him as POTUS. So don't take my repeat defense of him as support. I just think some alternate perspectives are sorely needed right now, especially if the Dems plan on actually recovering from this. They very well may be looking at a LONG period of losses, which means a very dangerous GOP super majority and presence in all branches. That's not good for anyone.


Anyway, back to your post... when it comes to persona, I still insist that a LOT of his persona was exaggerations by the media. They latched on to anything possible and blew it out of proportion (just like happened to Hillary). From pussy grabbing to being racist, it was never as big as presented. Put it in full context, understand what his inarticulate head was trying to actually say, and consider his generation and lifestyle. "Grandpa you are embarrassing us in public again" type shit, not raging xenophobic child raping woman hater.

I read (possibly here) that the Republicans are close to having enough state legislatures to pass Constitutional Amendments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_state_legislatures

And of course I see posts that state this after I posted this. I should hold all posts until I get to the end of the thread.
Why the fuck would I want to watch any of his bullshit? I don't want listen or see anything he says. Fuck him.Because the enemy you don't know will kill you. I mean, I don't think that's SunTzu but it's up there.

Wretchedest
11-14-2016, 03:43 PM
I tend to have a pretty balanced perspective and I think the Democrats proper are dead

onthewall2983
11-14-2016, 04:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be_Bh8O7d-Q

Dryalex12
11-14-2016, 04:29 PM
Why do I keep coming back here?

Sutekh
11-14-2016, 05:22 PM
And now they get to float on a raft of "oh, NOW you want to talk about certain parts of the media getting cozy with the White House? Ok CNN. OK Donna Brazile. Oh, she still the chair of the DNC? Yeah, you guys clearly care so much about this!"



Careful with labeling Bannon a white supremacist. That's the exact shit that got Trump elected. I think you greatly misunderstand that realm of you truly think it's white supremacy, but it doesn't even matter. "Everyone I don't like is a racist" is now the egg on the face of the left and it needs to go away for quite some time before enough people listen.

Er... as I pointed out in the portion of my post you didn't quote?

It's not so much proximity to a media outlet, it's proximity to a certain kind of media outlet - it would be like Obama hiring someone from the militant, morning star, the canary etc etc.

There's conservative and then theres oddball, and breitbart is the latter. They make Fox news look positively balanced and sober. I never understood the crowing about the relationship between the bushes and Fox... I mean of course they would be close, they bat for the same team. It's just the analogue of the dnc/cnn relationship

Sutekh
11-14-2016, 05:57 PM
It's not corruption, but yes you didn't hear them complaining. Ditto electoral college. Also deporting immigrants and not letting muslims in - hypothetically - is beyond the pale. But droning the Shit out of Muslims and supporting the ethnic cleansing of Kurds tacitly by not opposing Turkish NATO membership... all either absolutely fine or just stuff that happens. There is hypocrisy, you're right.

cashpiles (closed)
11-14-2016, 06:09 PM
Let's be real here: Hillary was never meant to be President. She tried to play the part, but she came off more like a student who has memorized what she thinks are all the right answers. I'm glad I won't have to see her demonic smile everywhere I look anymore. And imagine The Clintons' marriage. I bet they live in separate homes.

Bill Clinton's DNC speech in support of Hillary was so phony and condescending.. like a con man who has lied a few thousand too many times - his mask cracked just enough to reveal the black hole behind it. Clinton's heartland good 'ol Southern apple pie persona was in full effect...and talking with a sense of authority that he no longer actually had. Clinton is a broken, forgotten con artist of the highest order.

Which would you rather? Someone pretending to be warm and good and actually human scum or someone pretending to be a total asshole tyrant who's actually a good person?

onthewall2983
11-14-2016, 06:15 PM
Let's be real here: Hillary was never meant to be President. She tried to play the part, but she came off more like a student who has memorized what she thinks are all the right answers. I'm glad I won't have to see her demonic smile everywhere I look anymore. And imagine The Clintons' marriage. I bet they live in separate homes.

Fine, but she could have assembled a decent group of people for a staff. Trump (more specifically Pence) is assembling a group of people who largely have done nothing positive for us at all.

Jinsai
11-14-2016, 06:22 PM
But trying to characterise it and it's users as traditionally far right is misunderstanding what the alt right is. They aren't nazis and if you call them that or try to portray them as such, they won't take you seriously. Which is fair enough, as its wide of the mark

The average Breitbart contributor might not be a nazi, but they just ran the campaign for a candidate who the KKK celebrate, so there's that...

Some other things to consider on the issue (http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/11/steve-bannon-racist-lets-find-out)

Sutekh
11-14-2016, 06:34 PM
Let's be real here: Hillary was never meant to be President. She tried to play the part, but she came off more like a student who has memorized what she thinks are all the right answers. I'm glad I won't have to see her demonic smile everywhere I look anymore. And imagine The Clintons' marriage. I bet they live in separate homes.

Bill Clinton's DNC speech in support of Hillary was so phony and condescending.. like a con man who has lied a few thousand too many times - his mask cracked just enough to reveal the black hole behind it. Clinton's heartland good 'ol Southern apple pie persona was in full effect...and talking with a sense of authority that he no longer actually had. Clinton is a broken, forgotten con artist of the highest order.

Which would you rather? Someone pretending to be warm and good and actually human scum or someone pretending to be a total asshole tyrant who's actually a good person?

Everything you say about Hillary is true but who says Trump is a good person? Are you old or thorough enough to know what he did to new York real estate essentially using tax money - whilst avoiding tax himself? Not a good guy

And who cares about the state of the Clintons marriage? What bearing does that have on statecraft

Deepvoid
11-14-2016, 08:00 PM
And now they get to float on a raft of "oh, NOW you want to talk about certain parts of the media getting cozy with the White House? Ok CNN. OK Donna Brazile. Oh, she still the chair of the DNC? Yeah, you guys clearly care so much about this!"



Careful with labeling Bannon a white supremacist. That's the exact shit that got Trump elected. I think you greatly misunderstand that realm of you truly think it's white supremacy, but it doesn't even matter. "Everyone I don't like is a racist" is now the egg on the face of the left and it needs to go away for quite some time before enough people listen.

So you believe that racism isn't really at a level of concern at this time?

hellospaceboy
11-14-2016, 08:07 PM
Which would you rather? Someone pretending to be warm and good and actually human scum or someone pretending to be a total asshole tyrant who's actually a good person?

So Trump is only pretending to be an asshole?! That is one really long term commitment to deceive everyone... Also it's something you're just saying... I mean, by all means, I'll be happy to be surprised by the mass-revelation that he's a fuckin' great president, but after the shit he pulled on the campaign he doesn't get that as a basic assumption. He has to earn it, and so far -by the people he chose to surround himself with- he's not doing it.

Sutekh
11-14-2016, 08:37 PM
So trump and putin exhanging pleasantries, applause in the duma following the election, and now warm words in the western media between putin and trump... this is all excellent news, as my greatest fear as a Brit is dying in an oven of silent death post nuclear exchange

This really is the warmest US/Rus relations have been since the forties (the warmth post glasnost was always under proviso, and it swiftly deteriorated since then, with litvinienko/spy scandals/crimea/syria being the low points), from an IR point of view its basically unprecedented... watching all this with a keen eye!

Exocet
11-14-2016, 11:55 PM
So trump and putin exhanging pleasantries, applause in the duma following the election, and now warm words in the western media between putin and trump... this is all excellent news, as my greatest fear as a Brit is dying in an oven of silent death post nuclear exchange

This really is the warmest US/Rus relations have been since the forties (the warmth post glasnost was always under proviso, and it swiftly deteriorated since then, with litvinienko/spy scandals/crimea/syria being the low points), from an IR point of view its basically unprecedented... watching all this with a keen eye!

Im not sure... i agree that Trump being elected will cool things and that there needs to be a more understanding point of view when it comes to Russia's concerns that it is being contained. And encircled by Nato. Putin more than anything wants respect of 'boundaries'. And is paranoid the U.S is trying to obstruct its global oil and gas trade with other countries

Trouble is Putins 'boundaries' are now independent countries, or did the USSR never really collapse? i really do feel for those in Ukraine...they were sick of the insane level of corruption and didnt want a kremlin backed government anymore.

But yeah i was dreading a Clinton/Putin relationship. My main worry was Trump defending Vlads internal actions, was he keen of replicating Putins autocracy? and what that meant for the U.S.

Jinsai
11-15-2016, 01:28 AM
this is without a doubt the most sobering, fascinating, and important article I've read since Tuesday, and no matter which side of the political arena you're on, this needs to be read by absolutely every single person you know (http://graphics.wsj.com/blue-feed-red-feed/)

streetman
11-15-2016, 02:34 AM
Would love to hear Trent's thoughts on this Trump win. He was pretty certain in that Daily Best Article that Trump would quickly flame out. Boy was he (and all of us) wrong.

Jinsai
11-15-2016, 02:39 AM
Sometime shortly before the re-election of Obama and now, Facebook has become the new e-mail-replacing standard for general distanced discourse.


At some point, they lumped the ad revenue targeting to include political persuasion via algorithm, and split the stream of partisan content on your feed to the left and the right... creating millions of little echo chambers.


Then, some poor destitute teens in Macedonia discovered that they could print free money by creating click-bait "political websites" with outrageous fake content and conspiracy theories... and they found the most success targeting conservatives.


The people in this echo chamber don't correct the false news spinning around in it - they just want their candidate to win.


Facebook, having created a platform for spam-loving, safe space for people on both sides of the aisle. An ad-happy place where people escape from the bullshit to be with like-minded souls.


Meanwhile, kids in Macedonia are buying Playstations with the revenue reaped from the shared rebroadcasting of their ludicrous fake click-bait, knowing that not enough people are going to call it out vs how many people will share.


Hence, we now have president Trump, and, actually, we can probably thank Facebook's ad-savvy team for the Brexit result as well.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/14/technology/facebook-is-said-to-question-its-influence-in-election.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

Harry Seaward
11-15-2016, 03:42 AM
this is without a doubt the most sobering, fascinating, and important article I've read since Tuesday, and no matter which side of the political arena you're on, this needs to be read by absolutely every single person you know (http://graphics.wsj.com/blue-feed-red-feed/)

What exactly is the point? To show people that bias exists on Facebook? This whole "we live in a political bubble and that's why we're partisan" bullshit is just that to me - bullshit. It's really easy to see which of these Facebook posts on that website are nonsense. One of the posts on there is by Right Wing News, a post about the safety pin thing. The caption is "One of the dumbest, whiniest things I have ever seen." So are you saying people have a warped view of reality because of stuff like this? Because it seems pretty simple to realize a lot of this is biased crap and a lot of it is factually false. But people want to believe it because it fits into their preconceived notions. If you're a dumb racist shitbad, filling your Facebook timeline with more unbiased centrist content isn't going to change the way you think.

Jinsai
11-15-2016, 04:21 AM
What exactly is the point? To show people that bias exists on Facebook? This whole "we live in a political bubble and that's why we're partisan" bullshit is just that to me - bullshit. It's really easy to see which of these Facebook posts on that website are nonsense. One of the posts on there is by Right Wing News, a post about the safety pin thing. The caption is "One of the dumbest, whiniest things I have ever seen." So are you saying people have a warped view of reality because of stuff like this? Because it seems pretty simple to realize a lot of this is biased crap and a lot of it is factually false. But people want to believe it because it fits into their preconceived notions. If you're a dumb racist shitbad, filling your Facebook timeline with more unbiased centrist content isn't going to change the way you think.

so pat yourself on the back for being an enlightened liberal but you lost the fucking election

don't you see how the implications of this bleed out into both political parties?

Sutekh
11-15-2016, 04:55 AM
I keep seeing bias conflated with fabrication in this thread. It pretty much proves the point that a lot of people are making. There's showing things in a certain light to make a point that fits your agenda, and then there is just making things up

It's very interesting when you bear in mind current Surkov/Kremlin media strategies

Jinsai
11-15-2016, 05:04 AM
Whenever someone tells me on social media that the influence of social media is overstated, a little part of me dies

Deepvoid
11-15-2016, 07:06 AM
A lot of people are reporting that Rudy Giuliani is the top choice for Secretary of State. John Bolton and Jeff Sessions are in the running as well.

Harry Seaward
11-15-2016, 07:50 AM
I saw this video on Facebook and it pushed me to vent. I haven't gone a single day since Tuesday without spending a considerable amount of time going off on hatred-filled rants. Between Facebook, reddit, ETS, Provider Module, and even at work to customers, if I see anything mentioning Trump or anything vaguely related, I can't seem to stop myself from spending an hour blasting out whatever is on my mind. I actually spent two and a half hours yesterday writing a post in what was an on-going argument with some dipshit on Provider Module who just kept at the narrative that 'this election is no different than any other. these whiny liberals are just doing the same thing Republicans did when Obama was elected. this is going to be a boring, uneventful 4 years.' It made me fucking rage. My final post (which was just completely ignored, most likely) was fucking 12 pages long when I was writing it on Google Docs. For what? For nobody to read it? To try and force this idiot into accepting my point of view as the truth? Just to get these feelings out so I don't kill myself? Who knows. Here is the beginning (http://www.providermodule.com/forum/showthread.php/8287-2016-U-S-Presidential-Election-Discussion?p=208519&viewfull=1#post208519) of the 2-page exchange. If anybody wants to read through it or give your thoughts, that would be cool. Just to know I didn't put myself through all that stress for no good goddamn reason.

The worst part of all this is that my intense hatred for what's happening isn't rooted in my disagreements with Trump's policies. I could handle that. I wouldn't like it, but I could handle it. My problem is that he's just so absolutely unsuited for such a position in every fucking way. He's outrageously stupid and crass and unprofessional and just plain disgusting. That's what it is, it goes far deeper than his beliefs into absolute hatred of him as a person. I don't trust him to do anything in his job properly. I don't think he's physically able to handle anything of this magnitude. I'm just filled with basically insanity that America is just so sick of liberals that they pushed, as far as we know as of now, the self-destruct button. Not a second has gone by in the past week that I haven't been actively stopping myself from just screaming.

No I lied. The worst part is that I really, really, really think the media and politicians and the public are all really underselling what a fucked up thing this is. I think everybody is being way too fucking casual about it. I honestly don't understand how the fucking fabric of society hasn't fallen apart and that we haven't descended into complete chaos in the past week. That's how fucking serious I think this is and how much I think everybody seems to be so goddamn okay that this is happening.

I just know I can't keep this up for much longer because it's going to start doing real physical damage. The lack of sleep and fatigue and high blood pressure and it probably won't take too long to get to a point where I just snap my keyboard in half. But I'm not sure how to relax yet. I haven't been able to laugh at much of anything. Let alone these political memes that have sprouted up in the last week, specifically the Biden memes. I have liberal pro-Clinton friends sharing this shit on Facebook, and I'm just like really? What the fuck is wrong with you? How can you make jokes at a time like this? People are fucking dying, grow the fuck up. There hasn't been a day in well over a decade that I haven't spent at least 4 or 5 hours on the internet, but maybe... maybe I should take a break for a week or two, just so I don't irreversibly lose my shit.

Whatever. I'm just blabbering on, you guys don't give a shit. So anyway, this is me being exasperated about climate change.




[VIDEO]
Bernie Sanders on The View - "Climate change is not a hoax. Itís a threat to this entire planet. Donald Trump better start listening to scientists and not fossil fuel companies." (https://www.facebook.com/senatorsanders/videos/10155336434077908/)

This is really just unbelievable to me. I've been thinking about this a lot recently - the fact that we can't, as a country, have any real substantive discussions about serious issues, because we can't agree on the premise. This country can't even agree on FACTS, which really puts a hamper on having adult conversations about real issues with any nuance, class, or maturity.

I think these people, alongside anti-vaxxers to a lesser degree, truly don't realize the profound effect that their opinions have and will have in the future. Obviously Joe Fucktard next door can't affect change or regulations to slow climate change, but the issue is the culture. One person can't do anything, but one person adds to the millions of people who refuse to accept scientific fact.

Science and facts have somehow turned into partisan political bickering. But as we all know, physics doesn't care who is elected for President. Physics doesn't care how much back and forth fighting we do amongst ourselves about the most fundamental, undeniable truths - nature will continue to barrel at breakneck speed to the edge of the cliff, after which there's no soft landing. And it will be our faults for causing it and our faults for turning a blind eye when we could have, at the VERY least, put the brakes on.

I don't imagine I have anybody on my friend list mind-bogglingly stupid and uninformed enough that they don't believe in manmade climate change, but if I do and you know how to read, please take this in. What is the final objective of your denial? What point or goal do you hope to achieve? Are you scared that we might be making our planet safer and healthier for no good reason? Do you have any reason to fight against this sort of progress so viscerally and vehemently other than the fact that since it's a liberal viewpoint it MUST be wrong?

Christ, I don't know. If you don't understand where I'm coming from, you don't understand the most deep, carnal, sickening frustration a human can possibly feel. It's like taking to the streets and screaming in the face of every passerby you see - "There's a meteor hurdling towards Earth and it will destroy all life! It will be here in only a few generations!" - and getting in response only scoffs, eyerolls, and Congressional pushback.

The President-elect of the United States of America believes that climate change is a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese. Republicans and apathetic centrists/Democrats think that liberals are being dramatic in trying to imagine and prepare for a Trump Presidency. But if he truly believes some of the things he's said about climate change, this is absolutely the most horrifying and important thing he has immediate control over. He's held every view on every subject depending on who is asking him and whether there's a crowd of a few thousand people in front of him, so we'll have to see how he plays his cards.

The fact that he's already appointed a climate-change denier to his EPA transition team does not bode well. My hopes aren't high, but I can only hope that he isn't able to completely insulate himself from a single reasonable person. At least one has to slip in through the cracks. Right?

Even ignoring every single other policy choice he could make throughout his term, if he handles this wrong millions of people WILL die as a direct results of his actions. To take advantage of one of the view times this can be said without any exaggeration and with a straight face: the blood of the innocent will be on his hands. It will happen long after Trump, all of Congress, the Supreme Court, political shot callers, and fossil fuel lobbyists are all dead of course, so he has no personal horse in this race. But it will happen. It will happen and it will be the grandchildren of all the dinosaurs in Washington who pay the price.

If he truly sticks to trying to please his base in every manner and thus takes any action that ISN'T an full-fledged active effort to curtail environmental damage in all forms, then something must be done. We can't allow this to happen at any cost.

hellospaceboy
11-15-2016, 08:29 AM
Facebook, having created a platform for spam-loving, safe space for people on both sides of the aisle. An ad-happy place where people escape from the bullshit to be with like-minded souls.


Meanwhile, kids in Macedonia are buying Playstations with the revenue reaped from the shared rebroadcasting of their ludicrous fake click-bait, knowing that not enough people are going to call it out vs how many people will share.


Hence, we now have president Trump, and, actually, we can probably thank Facebook's ad-savvy team for the Brexit result as well.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/14/technology/facebook-is-said-to-question-its-influence-in-election.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0


This is honestly one thing that we need to fix... not for future elections or to save the democratic party, but for the future of civilization.

You guys remember the weird "glued to the screen" future in Wall-E? Well, turns out the biggest problem with our age is not that we're disconnected from each other but that we can't tell what's real anymore.

Somehow, people lost their ability for basic critical thinking. That's why facts never derailed the Trump campaign! You can talk about 9 month abortions (doesn't exist) and make unreasonable promises(Mexico paying for the wall) and on the other hand creating "debate" over facts like climate change is easier than ever.

During the elections I often felt that some people live in an alternative universe. They talked about a nightmarish version of the US, one that I didn't recognize and didn't see around me, and it all comes down to viewing the world through personalized channels that cater to and feed our worldviews (facebook is number one on the list, but even Google, which started out as an almost perfect system to cut through bullshit and take you to the most relevant content became "personalized" which is shitty and a historic misstep).

allegro
11-15-2016, 08:48 AM
Re climate change, I guess people don't realize what was already in place blocking everything (http://motherboard.vice.com/read/meet-the-most-anti-science-congress-in-modern-history). All of those people were voted into power.

Re social media etc. Bill Clinton was elected, twice, despite reports of affairs, possible sexual harassment, and a savings and loan scandal (Whitewater) and this was before the Web. People wanted their jobs back. They overlooked everything else.

Before him, we elected a Hollywood actor to be President. Twice.

I'm more surprised at the people who are surprised.

Harry Seaward, you're gonna have a stroke. Getting this angry isn't going to accomplish anything unless you turn it into action. Typing essays on message boards or social media ain't it. Join a few activists groups, sign some petitions, donate your time, etc. People don't want to believe climate change data because it's not in their best financial interest to believe it. I had a college professor who thought some of the carbon science was wrong. Or people think that it won't affect them because they'll be dead. It's why humans build houses on rivers that flood, or in areas prone to forest fires, or where there are lots of bears. I really suggest that you step away from all of this for a little while, for the sake of your health. We have President Obama all through Christmas and the New Year, and ranting isn't going to do anything other than wreck your holidays or kill you. This country survived a Civil War. Slavery. Two World Wars. We will get through this. We have to; we don't have any other choice.

hellospaceboy
11-15-2016, 09:20 AM
Before him, we elected a Hollywood actor to be President. Twice.


While Reagan was indeed a Hollywood actor, by the time he ran for the presidency he was governor of California (for 2 terms). He didn't just walk off of a set and into the White House, by then he was in public service. COmparing him to Trump in this regard is not quite correct.

allegro
11-15-2016, 09:25 AM
While Reagan was indeed a Hollywood actor, by the time he ran for the presidency he was governor of California (for 2 terms). He didn't just walk off of a set and into the White House, by then he was in public service. COmparing him to Trump in this regard is not quite correct.
I'm not comparing him to Trump. Reagan actually was a politician. But his only other experience besides Governor and SAG rep was Hollywood Actor. Which, at the time, caused about as much public outrage and confusion as this.

"We just elected a guy who starred in a film called "Bedtime for Bonzo.'"

We are still suffering the affects of Reaganomics.

edit: And then it ended up that Nancy was running things for years because Ronald had Alzheimers while in office but we didn't know it.

I don't know what people see suggesting, here. Jim Jones Suicide Plan? Impeachment is a bad idea since Pence is worse. The SCOTUS gutting the VRA is when all the outrage should have happened but we heard crickets. This country is experiencing some cultural shifts that are the same as THE WORLD's right now.

See this: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/ct-chinese-professor-predicted-trump-20161114-story.html

Louie_Cypher
11-15-2016, 10:13 AM
everyday it get's he's got his kids on the cabinet. just read he's appointed palin to be sec of the interior. i was wondering if the uS would be around in four years. now my fear is if we'll have a planet. U.S.A. mow stands for uniformed stupid a*holes.
-louie

allegro
11-15-2016, 10:45 AM
everyday it get's he's got his kids on the cabinet. just read he's appointed palin to be sec of the interior. i was wondering if the uS would be around in four years. now my fear is if we'll have a planet. U.S.A. mow stands for uniformed stupid a*holes.
-louie
The kids won't likely be on the cabinet, they're on the transition team.

My biggest fear is and has always been: Paul Ryan. I just hope nobody gives Ryan any more power (http://www.salon.com/2016/11/15/paul-ryan-has-medicare-in-the-crosshairs-ryans-been-gunning-to-kill-the-program-for-years-and-he-senses-his-moment/). Hopefully, Congress and Trump won't hand Ryan everything he wants. I can't believe Wisconsin keeps re-electing this shitbag.

I hope groups like AARP and various legal organizations REALLY fight Ryan.

icklekitty
11-15-2016, 10:54 AM
I'm really confused that you contradicted your own analogy. If Farage is not a politician, how is he analogous to Merkel??

I see what you did there.

*edit* heh, reading and replying before seeing the subsequent replies.

Louie_Cypher
11-15-2016, 01:46 PM
rupublican's" shit there's a hole in the boat, quick put some more holes in it so the water drains faster".
-louie

Deepvoid
11-15-2016, 03:54 PM
The kids won't likely be on the cabinet, they're on the transition team.

My biggest fear is and has always been: Paul Ryan. I just hope nobody gives Ryan any more power (http://www.salon.com/2016/11/15/paul-ryan-has-medicare-in-the-crosshairs-ryans-been-gunning-to-kill-the-program-for-years-and-he-senses-his-moment/). Hopefully, Congress and Trump won't hand Ryan everything he wants. I can't believe Wisconsin keeps re-electing this shitbag.

I hope groups like AARP and various legal organizations REALLY fight Ryan.

Speaking of Ryan, he was just re-elected Speaker of the House.

allegate
11-15-2016, 04:52 PM
You know, all this posturing and crap makes me wish they would do actual work every now and then. I mean, it's nice that there's a leader but they spend so much time more in front of cameras instead of actually working. And I know that "the real work" goes on after hours and in back-door deals but God damn I wish they actually, obviously worked.

Obama: Congress stopped me from helping Trump supporters (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/obama-congress-trump-voters-231409)

I mean, he's not really wrong. Might be some cherry-picking but for the most part they didn't really do anything.

Jinsai
11-15-2016, 05:37 PM
This is a big readily apparent to many of us. I love straddling both of those environments to pick out the hypocrisy. The hypocrisy highlights where ideology gives way to partisan stupidity.

The people who need to read it are the types who actively cull people via ignore lists, blocking, unfriending, etc just because they don't want to see views that differ from their own.

The larger point is what's alarming though. The design flaw inherent in Facebook leaves it vulnerable to be exploited, similarly to a computer virus. For you, working in tech security, the parallel would be self-evident. For the average person, the concept of fake click-bait news targeting lower information voters who are super worked up and don't tend to check their sources, that may seem familiar. The idea that this gullibility is an exploitable security flaw in our social media (functionally akin to how a computer virus propagates itself) would seem surprising, if not paranoid and delusional.

And yet, teen trolls in Macedonia identified the security flaw during the course of this election. They found the group that was most likely to respond favorably to hyperbolic fake scandals and share that information with their friends. These people share this information within their echo chamber, and get outraged about it. Because the system is isolated, nobody can come in and purge the virus, and by the time it's been killed at the source it's been spread to other echo chamber systems.

And of course, the group that they found most susceptible was extremist xenophobes and bigots. They would "publish" stories on fake news sites... about how Bill and Hillary once were caught doing lines of coke off a dead stripper's ass in some dictator's private mansion, and people would share it. Nobody steps in to "debunk" the story, because it's ridiculous and doing so grants it legitimacy.

The exploit has its servers hammered logarithmically in the lead up to the election as Clinton's numbers alarmingly drop. The fake stories increase in number in the final days as the trolls kill the golden goose... and then the actual election happens, and EVERYONE doesn't understand how the polls got it so wrong. Just like Brexit.

Meanwhile, the trolls generated a decent amount of pocket change from the click bait they sent people through.

telee.kom
11-15-2016, 06:16 PM
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-2016-women-214454

allegro
11-15-2016, 08:26 PM
ACLU Petition (https://action.aclu.org/secure/denouncehate?emsrc=Nat_Appeal_AutologinEnabled&emissue=racialjustice&emtype=petition&ms=eml_161115_racialjustice&__af=query_string_encrypted).

cashpiles (closed)
11-15-2016, 09:47 PM
FUCK BILL CLINTON TO HELL.
<strong>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ayHf7qbZGA

tony.parente
11-15-2016, 11:16 PM
Despite all the BS so far I really think we all are going to be blown away by how well Trump is going to do. I can't wait to eat my body weight in crow.

Exocet
11-16-2016, 01:02 AM
I hate those establishment liberal newspapers like the New York Times in the US or the Guardian in the UK.

Sorry to sound like Trunp....but they keep losing. Losing has become the norm for them.
They hide behind liberalism in their urban myopic bubbles...when really they are establishment puppets.
They cant stand any radical change...and will destroy the will of the people.

They loathe people like Bernie Sanders or Jeremy Corbyn. Just as much as they hate Trump or Nigel Farage.

They are really very centrist papers....fuck them

WorzelG
11-16-2016, 01:22 AM
What are you talking about? Obama is just finishing 2 terms

Exocet
11-16-2016, 01:58 AM
Obama approved $278 billion in weapons deals, more than double the total under Bush. Most went to Saudi Arabia

People are bored of the cult of personality...its substance which counts....

Harry Seaward
11-16-2016, 02:00 AM
People are bored of the cult of personality...

wat.......

Exocet
11-16-2016, 02:05 AM
wat.......

Lol.....Trump needs to prove himself......

Aladdinsanity
11-16-2016, 02:27 AM
112 anti-Trump protesters were arrested in Oregon

At least 70 of them did not vote.

At least 25 weren't even registered to vote.

http://www.wcnc.com/mb/news/more-than-half-of-arrested-anti-trump-protesters-didnt-vote/351988279


More ineffectual stupidity. Time could be spent on fixing the Dem party. I wonder how many of these protesters know that an election is underway for DNC Chair? Can they name any of the candidates? Do they have a preference?
Oregon was one of the states that Bernie Sanders won during the primaries and actually features a huge chunk of those people who said "fuck it" after Hillary won the nomination. Enthusiasm is really the only thing that would've prompted a lot of them into voting since Oregon is pretty blue and the electoral votes would've went to the Democratic party regardless of whoever was on the ticket.

These protests aren't "ineffectual stupidity", they need to happen. We're about to hand the presidency to someone who's spent his entire campaign scapegoating Latinos and Muslims -- a significant chunk of their communities are scared to death as a result. The onus is on him to assuage their fears and that lame-ass 60 Minutes interview of him downplaying the occurrence of hate crimes via his rhetoric and then just saying "stop it" doesn't fucking cut it. Neither does hiring the chairman of Breitbart as his chief strategist nor considering David Clarke (the black cop that makes conservatives feel safe for having a bone to pick with Black Lives Matter) and Joe Arpaio (the sheriff who rose to fame for hating Mexicans) for head of Homeland Security.

As for the DNC chair thing -- believe or not, if people are this shook to protest with this much intensity for this long, they're probably on their toes about the possibility of being fucked by our govenment, which is why 550,000 people signed Sanders' petition to have Keith Ellison be elected for the DNC chair

streetman
11-16-2016, 03:17 AM
Carson not interested in serving in Trump administration
(http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/306045-carson-turned-down-offer-to-serve-in-trump-administration-report)
"Dr. Carson feels he has no government experience, he's never run a federal agency. The last thing he would want to do was take a position that could cripple the presidency."

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WAT

someone remind him that he ran for fucking president this election



someone remind him that a fucking reality tv star clown with absolutely no government or any type of leadership experience is president

Sarah K
11-16-2016, 08:14 AM
I AM THE ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT CANDIDATE

*ponders hiring a supporting cast of villains who have mostly been career politicians*

allegate
11-16-2016, 09:22 AM
I was thinking yesterday: Wouldn't it be funny if there was a government shut down in January because Trump can't get his cabinet together?

bobbie solo
11-16-2016, 11:02 AM
There should be a gov't shutdown every time the budgetr neogtiations come up, since Im assuming the Republican budgets will be disgusting. Dems should block any & every thing that goes against their PoV, just like the right did for Obama. Filibusters. gov't shutdowns, refusal to approve appointments, you name it. Fight dirty just like they did. Get in the muck with them & try to break their back. Because taking the high ground didnt get them shit, especially as they dismantle everything Obama did.

But they won't, bc they are huge pussies and basically paid to lose by their donors.

Deepvoid
11-16-2016, 12:09 PM
Ted Cruz as Attorney General. How's that sound for you guys?

allegro
11-16-2016, 01:14 PM
Ted Cruz as Attorney General. How's that sound for you guys?

That would at least get him OUT OF CONGRESS, but he'd have to be approved by the Senate and a LOT of Senators (including Republican Senators) HATE him.

aggroculture
11-16-2016, 01:24 PM
Oh allegro you are the voice of hope lately!

allegro
11-16-2016, 01:48 PM
There is also talk of Ted Cruz for SCOTUS....

He'd NEVER get confirmed. See my above post about Senators HATING Ted Cruz and having to approve him as a SCOTUS Justice.


There should be a gov't shutdown every time the budgetr neogtiations come up, since Im assuming the Republican budgets will be disgusting.
The problem with that is that each time there is a Government shutdown, Government employees and Military people don't get paid -- this doesn't include people in Congress, who DO get paid during Government shutdowns (fuckers). Government employees that aren't important to "safety" are laid off; the remaining people who are important to safety, like the Military, Air Traffic Controllers, etc. have to keep working, but without pay. Which already happened WHEN TED CRUZ SHUT DOWN THE GOVERNMENT (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/09/senators-have-had-it-with-ted-cruzs-shutdown.html) (because he is an asshole).

skullboy0
11-16-2016, 01:49 PM
I AM THE ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT CANDIDATE

*ponders hiring a supporting cast of villains who have mostly been career politicians*

#DrainTheSwamp

allegro
11-16-2016, 01:58 PM
#DrainTheSwamp

Well, yeah, that is a big part of the problem ... the swamp is currently full of nothing but Lobbyists. It's hard to hire anybody in D.C. who hasn't been wading in the swamp for many years. So in order to know how to navigate the swamp, you initially have to hire people who know the swamp, then you get rid of those people to drain the swamp; that's the alleged "plan." If you hire people from outside the swamp, they don't know the swamp, it's like hiring a Russian tour guide for your trip to Ireland.

allegate
11-16-2016, 01:59 PM
Janus' Gross says Trump will be one-termer, in failure for populism (http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/janus-gross-says-trump-will-be-one-termer-in-failure-for-populism/ar-AAkmVnG?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp)

I fully expect Mike and Reggie to show up at any time to take the Tall Man out.

Also:

"[Trump's] tenure will be a short four years but is likely to be a damaging one for jobless and low-wage American voters," Gross added. "I write in amazed, almost amused bewilderment at what American voters have done to themselves."The people who voted for Trump don't like fancy-pants who say they 'did this to themselves'.

allegro
11-16-2016, 02:04 PM
Janus' Gross says Trump will be one-termer, in failure for populism (http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/janus-gross-says-trump-will-be-one-termer-in-failure-for-populism/ar-AAkmVnG?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp)

Yeah, I suspect this is really correct, and I suspect the big tax cuts is gonna be ... um ... bad.

"The Trumpian Fox has entered the Populist Henhouse, not so much by stealth but as a result of Middle America's misinterpretation of what will make America great again," Gross wrote.

Jinsai
11-16-2016, 02:07 PM
I hate those establishment liberal newspapers like the New York Times in the US or the Guardian in the UK.

Sorry to sound like Trunp....but they keep losing. Losing has become the norm for them.
They hide behind liberalism in their urban myopic bubbles...when really they are establishment puppets.
They cant stand any radical change...and will destroy the will of the people.

They loathe people like Bernie Sanders or Jeremy Corbyn. Just as much as they hate Trump or Nigel Farage.

They are really very centrist papers....fuck them

Part of the problem here with the way we're assessing the outcome is this "winner take all" attitude, where we shriek and scream at the loser for being such a monumental fucking loser, so horrible, the worst... "I feel NO SYMPATHY for her or her wall street elite blah blah," acting like Hillary Clinton just turned the entire map red.

She STILL won the popular vote. Who else out there is getting tired of repeating that?

allegro
11-16-2016, 02:15 PM
She STILL won the popular vote. Who else out there is getting tired of repeating that?
If you look at THIS DATA (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/09/for-the-second-time-hillary-clinton-wins-more-votes-but-loses-an-election/), it's why Barbara Boxer has proposed changing the Constitution to remove the Electoral College. (http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-boxer-files-longshot-bill-to-scrap-the-1479234745-htmlstory.html)

edit: caveat that i'm not a supporter of said constitutional amendment

Jinsai
11-16-2016, 02:40 PM
If you look at THIS DATA (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/11/09/for-the-second-time-hillary-clinton-wins-more-votes-but-loses-an-election/), it's why Barbara Boxer has proposed changing the Constitution to remove the Electoral College. (http://www.latimes.com/politics/essential/la-pol-ca-essential-politics-updates-boxer-files-longshot-bill-to-scrap-the-1479234745-htmlstory.html)

and we absolutely should. I've been saying this for years, and I know I'm not alone. I've heard the arguments in support, but they're all based in anachronistic reasoning. The more I'm looking at the unexpected results of this election, it becomes more apparent that in the modern world, ideas and ideologies are no longer contained within geographic regions. We are able to represent individual will without appealing to any other messenger, and our technology now enables us to (more or less) accurately tally the vote.

What we may be seeing now is modern technology undermining the stated intent of the electoral college system, and that the system is perhaps even exploitable. I have heard probably enough of the defense of the system which defers to the accepted genius of the founding fathers. They didn't have functioning electricity or telephones, let alone the internet and supercomputer smart phones. We can't keep pretending that any of the people drafting the way we elect politicians could have had the foresight to predict the potential ramifications of the net.

allegro
11-16-2016, 02:48 PM
Probably, but you've got Lindsey Graham (the guy who joked about killing Ted Cruz and getting away with it because everyone hates him so much) floating the idea and saying that he thinks Cruz could get approved now.
We shall see ... there are a LOT of Senators on the committee, Republicans and Democrats, who DESPISE Cruz. Graham can't sell shit to those people.


and we absolutely should. I've been saying this for years, and I know I'm not alone. I've heard the arguments in support, but they're all based in anachronistic reasoning.
The Electoral College works, but what fucked it up was gerrymandering, the suppression of votes in the south due to racial discrimination (now fully back in action due to the SCOTUS opinion re the VRA), all those things that our founding fathers didn't count on when they created the Electoral College. The Republicans have fucked with the system and put their thumb on the scale knowing it's harder and harder for them to get the popular vote so they're gaming the system to at least get the electoral votes. Problem is: With Republicans having a Supermajority, we'll never see that Constitutional Amendment unless the Dems get a Supermajority again.

The internet doesn't have anything to do with it, really. What DOES have to do with it is things like suppressing votes by closing down polling locations in rural areas or areas mostly inhabited by African Americans, Voter ID laws in those same areas, overly suppressive and intimidating jurisdictions that are subpoenaing African Americans to appear in court to prove their voting eligibility, etc., and all of this is happening in the highly-coveted swing states.

SEE THIS. (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/01/us/critics-see-efforts-to-purge-minorities-from-voter-rolls-in-new-elections-rules.html)


SPARTA, Ga. — When the deputy sheriff’s patrol cruiser pulled up beside him as he walked down Broad Street at sunset last August, Martee Flournoy, a 32-year-old black man, was both confused and rattled. He had reason: In this corner of rural Georgia, African-Americans are arrested at a rate far higher than that of whites.

But the deputy had not come to arrest Mr. Flournoy. Rather, he had come to challenge Mr. Flournoy’s right to vote.

The majority-white Hancock County Board of Elections and Registration was systematically questioning the registrations of more than 180 black Sparta citizens — a fifth of the city’s registered voters — by dispatching deputies with summonses commanding them to appear in person to prove their residence or lose their voting rights. “When I read that letter, I was kind of nervous,” Mr. Flournoy said in an interview. “I didn’t know what to do.”

The board’s aim, a lawsuit later claimed, was to give an edge to white candidates in Sparta’s municipal elections — and that November, a white mayoral candidate won a narrow victory.

“A lot of those people that was challenged probably didn’t vote, even though they weren’t proven to be wrong,” said Marion Warren, a Sparta elections official who documented the purges and raised an alarm with voting-rights advocates. “People just do not understand why a sheriff is coming to their house to bring them a subpoena, especially if they haven’t committed any crime.”

The county attorney, Barry A. Fleming, a Republican state representative, said in an interview that the elections board was only trying to restore order to an electoral process tainted earlier by corruption and incompetence. The lawsuit is overblown, he suggested, because only a fraction of the targeted voters were ultimately scratched from the rolls.

“The allegations that people were denied the right to vote are the opposite of the truth,” he said. “This is probably more about politics and power than race.”

But the purge of Sparta voters is precisely the sort of electoral maneuver that once would have needed Justice Department approval before it could be put in effect. In Georgia and all or part of 14 other states, the 1965 Voting Rights Act required jurisdictions with histories of voter discrimination to receive so-called preclearance before changing the way voter registration and elections were conducted.

Three years ago, the Supreme Court declared the preclearance mandate unconstitutional, saying the blatant discrimination it was meant to prevent was largely a thing of the past.

But since the Supreme Court’s 5-to-4 ruling in the voting-rights case, Shelby County v. Holder, critics argue, the blatant efforts to keep minorities from voting have been supplanted by a blizzard of more subtle changes. Most conspicuous have been state efforts like voter ID laws or cutbacks in early voting periods, which critics say disproportionately affect minorities and the poor. Less apparent, but often just as contentious, have been numerous voting changes enacted in counties and towns across the South and elsewhere around the country.

They appear as Republican legislatures and election officials in the South and elsewhere have imposed statewide restrictions on voting that could depress turnout by minorities and other Democrat-leaning groups in a crucial presidential election year. Georgia and North Carolina, two states whose campaigns against so-called voter fraud have been cast by critics as aimed at black voters, could both be contested states in autumn’s presidential election.

Kristen Clarke, the president of the Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, a leading voting-rights advocacy group, said that before the Supreme Court’s Shelby County ruling, discriminatory laws and procedures had been blocked by the preclearance provisions.

Now, she said, “We’re seeing widespread proliferation of these laws. And we are left only with the ability to mount slow, costly case-by-case challenges” to their legality.

[...]

Alabama moved last year to close 31 driver’s license offices, almost all in rural areas with large African-American populations, as a cost-saving measure. After lawsuit threats and complaints that the closings would severely curtail local voter registration, the state chose to open the offices at least one day a month. Gov. Robert J. Bentley, a Republican, has strongly denied that the closings were racially motivated.

In Hernando County, Fla.; Cleveland and Watauga Counties in North Carolina; Baldwin County, Ala.; and elsewhere, elections officials eliminated or moved polling places in largely minority districts; a state court overturned the Watauga County closure.

The Republican majority in North Carolina’s General Assembly redrew the political districts last year in Wake County, whose main city is Raleigh, concentrating black voters in the city center into a single voting district. (A three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit ruled that map unconstitutional.) In Pasadena, Tex., officials eliminated two District Council seats in largely Hispanic areas in 2014 and replaced them with at-large seats chosen largely by white voters. Hispanic voters have filed a federal lawsuit seeking to undo the change.

In Macon-Bibb County, Ga., in February, the elections board moved a polling place in a predominantly black neighborhood from a gymnasium that was being renovated to the county sheriff’s office. Officials changed the location to a church after a petition drive legally forced a reversal.

aggroculture
11-16-2016, 02:52 PM
Let's just say I place very little faith in #NeverTrump Republicans.
They totally didn't count for shit in the election.

onthewall2983
11-16-2016, 03:27 PM
The professor who accurately predicted every outcome since 1984 is saying Trump will very likely be impeached (http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/15/politics/allan-lichtman-professor-predicts-trump-impeachment-erin-burnett/index.html). If this happens in the first four years, great. Trump can be considered a failure in the eyes of history, and Pence will lose the re-election bid so badly it'll shake up the GOP stranglehold considerably.

allegate
11-16-2016, 04:12 PM
The professor who accurately predicted every outcome since 1984 is saying Trump will very likely be impeached (http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/15/politics/allan-lichtman-professor-predicts-trump-impeachment-erin-burnett/index.html). If this happens in the first four years, great. Trump can be considered a failure in the eyes of history, and Pence will lose the re-election bid so badly it'll shake up the GOP stranglehold considerably.
I put so very little faith in these predictions since they didn't exactly come to pass this time. As a matter of fact, between the two parties the Dems look like what the Repubs were projected: in tatters and disarray. And it took less than 24 hours to happen.

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory seems to be a theme for them lately, barring the eight years of Obama. Will they learn? The Republicans didn't and they won the presidency so who knows.

allegro
11-16-2016, 04:23 PM
People who want to tear down the Electoral College should really investigate it. I think they are playing with fire. I could see it hitting people in the face down the line, similar to the whole RFRA/Hobby Lobby situation. Luckily, removing the EC is super unlikely.

The most simple justification, is that the EC helps balance things out so that EACH STATE has some weight, otherwise the election would be dominated by a very small number of urban concentrations that have tons of people. Too many people act like we are a direct democracy and everything about government should exist at the federal level. We aren't. We are a republic of states. The EC is democracy between states.

Well, yeah, that's exactly it; it's intended so that each state acts as its own voting entity; it also avoids a massive horror of attempting to unravel corruption if it happens on a national level, vs a state level. Fixing the problem of inequity in the FIVE times this has happened (popular vote was more than electoral vote) in history should happen by looking at corruption in voting, via voting suppression, discrimination, gerrymandering, etc.

allegro
11-16-2016, 06:26 PM
the great thing about trump's win is that a lot on the left are now seeing value in giving states their own sanctity. So many were looking at the country as a national direct democracy where states were mere organizational labels. And anyone talking about "states rights" is just using secret codewords for racists! /s

anyway, the electoral college also has a built in emergency backdoor for a really bad trump-type situation (if its a legitimate enough threat for people to, democratically, feel they need to pull that lever). There is currently an attempt at going that route. If it works, we get john kasich instead. Check out the video below. Also, ben's explanation for the historical intent of the electoral college is pretty solid.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU8k6LWxbDw

these are the kinds of "never before tried" legal edges (though most call it a "loophole") that are so much fun to explore. You don't have to be anti-constitutional to think that either :p

HOLY SHIT! That video's awesome!

cashpiles (closed)
11-16-2016, 06:30 PM
The professor who accurately predicted every outcome since 1984 is saying Trump will very likely be impeached (http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/15/politics/allan-lichtman-professor-predicts-trump-impeachment-erin-burnett/index.html). If this happens in the first four years, great. Trump can be considered a failure in the eyes of history, and Pence will lose the re-election bid so badly it'll shake up the GOP stranglehold considerably.

The article clearly states that his prediction of impeachment is based on gut instinct. His predictions for the winning candidates are based on a system.

Trump will not be impeached. That's my ​gut instinct.

Jinsai
11-17-2016, 02:05 AM
the Facebook (and by extension, social media) thing is really crazy, given how it's coming out that they could have stopped the proliferation of blatantly false info.

And they could have done it in an unobtrusive "are you sure you want to embarrass yourself?" kind of way.

If they identify this site, they red flag them, and when you share an article from them a caveat blips up "Hello! This article has been proven demonstrably false by the following non-partisan fact-checking organizations! The claims made here are completely false, but you are free to disseminate, and if possible legitimize them via tweets or whatever shit, but in that case, damn you Joseph Goebbels, your ghost fucks us again.

onthewall2983
11-17-2016, 02:31 AM
Trump will not be impeached. That's my ​gut instinct.

My gut instinct is to throw up but that's another story. You're most likely right. I don't see the GOP being so bold enough to do something like that unless he does something so utterly unpopular they are compelled to, to save their necks. Not because they think Pence, who would be a disaster as a candidate on his own, is better for the job.

I've asked myself every day for the last week what happens now. How will the next four years shape who we are, and what we tell our grandchildren or someone else's grandchildren about now. Will someone come along who's worse than Trump and bring us even further from the American dream, or will the next 48 months be an anomaly, a failed experiment.

I'm more depressed than I am scared. There was fear, but it passed. So I predict the ennui will pass too. I think ultimately he'll be ineffective and things will be more or less worse, but I'm hoping for limbo.

Harry Seaward
11-17-2016, 04:57 AM
Fixing the problem of inequity in the FIVE times this has happened (popular vote was more than electoral vote) in history

FWIW, that's 5 times out of 49 total elections, which is a 10.2% failure rate. Which in my opinion is 5 times more than it should have happened, when taking into consideration the massively, massively awesome importance of the United States Presidential election. One time is a lot but 10.2% is really insane and puts it into much better perspective.

fillow
11-17-2016, 06:56 AM
Reading this thread from the very start is fun.
Especially when Trump enters the stage on page 16/17.

allegro
11-17-2016, 08:54 AM
FWIW, that's 5 times out of 49 total elections, which is a 10.2% failure rate. .
It's not a failure rate. When you vote for a President in your state, you are really voting for electors in your state. This country is a Republic comprised of individual states* and the electoral system upholds individual state's elections weighted equally by population. It's how we are represented in Congress, too.


* Article IV of the United States Constitution "guarantee[s] to every State in this Union a Republican form of Government".

Deepvoid
11-17-2016, 09:00 AM
Reading this thread from the very start is fun.
Especially when Trump enters the stage on page 16/17.

Hahah! I actually did that the day after the election. So much talk about Bush vs. Clinton.
Fun indeed.

Deepvoid
11-17-2016, 09:06 AM
the Facebook (and by extension, social media) thing is really crazy, given how it's coming out that they could have stopped the proliferation of blatantly false info.

And they could have done it in an unobtrusive "are you sure you want to embarrass yourself?" kind of way.

If they identify this site, they red flag them, and when you share an article from them a caveat blips up "Hello! This article has been proven demonstrably false by the following non-partisan fact-checking organizations! The claims made here are completely false, but you are free to disseminate, and if possible legitimize them via tweets or whatever shit, but in that case, damn you Joseph Goebbels, your ghost fucks us again.

It's just not fake news anymore. It's the freaking misleading titles that if you don't bother to read the actual article, you'll get most of the story wrong.
The level of disinformation going on Facebook is absurd. Unfortunately, we have a generation that spends so much time on social media so by default, Facebook becomes the #1 news source for a lot of people.

MSM are to blame for this as well. There's a general distrust, especially with how completely wrong they were about this most recent election. People just don't believe what the MSM says anymore.
CNN has always been leaning left but they took it to whole new level this election cycle. They will be the new Fox for the next 4-8 years.
We had 8 years of Obama bashing on Fox. We'll have 4-8 years of Trump bashing on CNN.

hellospaceboy
11-17-2016, 10:26 AM
CNN has always been leaning left but they took it to whole new level this election cycle. They will be the new Fox for the next 4-8 years.
We had 8 years of Obama bashing on Fox. We'll have 4-8 years of Trump bashing on CNN.

I don't know if I can agree with that...MSNBC has always been the left leaning MSM network, but I would say CNN went to the right this year, big time... I mean, they hired Lewandowski while he was still under non-disclosure agreement from the Trump campaign ( and was probably still collecting salary from them) as their commentator to argue for the right. They didn't pick some old school republican, but went straight to the asshole who was manhandling journalists for Trump.

allegro
11-17-2016, 10:46 AM
I don't know if I can agree with that...MSNBC has always been the left leaning MSM network, but I would say CNN went to the right this year, big time... I mean, they hired Lewandowski while he was still under non-disclosure agreement from the Trump campaign ( and was probably still collecting salary from them) as their commentator to argue for the right. They didn't pick some old school republican, but went straight to the asshole who was manhandling journalists for Trump.

Ugh, CNN drove me NUTS this election with these moron political commentators from each side, constantly bickering and talking over each other, and some of them were really really STUPID. If you had a drinking game where you had to do a shot every time somebody on the CNN panel said "dog whistle," you'd all be dead.

This chick? I stopped watching CNN because of Conservative Barbie.
http://kayleighmcenany.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/mcenany4.jpg

Deepvoid
11-17-2016, 10:47 AM
I don't know if I can agree with that...MSNBC has always been the left leaning MSM network, but I would say CNN went to the right this year, big time... I mean, they hired Lewandowski while he was still under non-disclosure agreement from the Trump campaign ( and was probably still collecting salary from them) as their commentator to argue for the right. They didn't pick some old school republican, but went straight to the asshole who was manhandling journalists for Trump.

I think the Lewandowski hiring was smoke & mirrors to convince their viewers that they were unbiased.
There's a reason it was dubbed the Clinton New Network, certainly not for their right-wing position.

allegro
11-17-2016, 10:53 AM
I think the Lewandowski hiring was smoke & mirrors to convince their viewers that they were unbiased.
There's a reason it was dubbed the Clinton New Network, certainly not for their right-wing position.

In the PAST, yes. This election cycle, they spent ALL the time trying to provide equal representation to conservatives and TRUST ME there was a shitload of that. Ana Navarro was the only Republican voice of reason on CNN who I didn't want to put on MUTE. Ugh, Jeffrey Lord, ugh, makes me fucking nuts.

CNN is trying to get some of FoxNews' massive audience. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2016/05/02/cnn-craves-fox-newss-conservative-viewers/?utm_term=.c04ed791b23d)

Dra508
11-17-2016, 11:33 AM
Ugh, CNN drove me NUTS this election with these moron political commentators from each side, constantly bickering and talking over each other, and some of them were really really STUPID. If you had a drinking game where you had to do a shot every time somebody on the CNN panel said "dog whistle," you'd all be dead.

This chick? I stopped watching CNN because of Conservative Barbie.
http://kayleighmcenany.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/mcenany4.jpg
This is why I like the Diane Rehm show. They managed to get two sides of the issue to not yell at each other. Diane reminds me of my grandmother who was so proper that no one dared be poorly mannered around here. Also, I desperately want her hair.

hellospaceboy
11-17-2016, 12:26 PM
This is why I like the Diane Rehm show. They managed to get two sides of the issue to not yell at each other. Diane reminds me of my grandmother who was so proper that no one dared be poorly mannered around here. Also, I desperately want her hair.
You heard she will retire on January 1, 2017? :(

aggroculture
11-17-2016, 12:29 PM
weighted equally by population.

How can it be equally weighted by population? If it were, then why wouldn't winning the popular vote by 1+ million votes give Clinton the corresponding number of electoral college votes? My understanding is that it is un-equally weighted, in order to give less populous states more clout.


I don't see the GOP being so bold enough to do something like that unless he does something so utterly unpopular they are compelled to, to save their necks. Not because they think Pence, who would be a disaster as a candidate on his own, is better for the job.

Trump is now the goose that lays the golden eggs. No way are they going to impeach him and compromise getting a second term from him.
Liberals are indulging in a lot of unhealthy fantasies right now...when instead what they have to do is purge the Dem leadership, purge Clinton's faction, and replace them with more genuinely progressive candidates. Now is the time. If not, they'll be like the UK Labour party: years down the line and still in-fighting and self-destructing and losing.

Jinsai
11-17-2016, 03:00 PM
I'm more depressed than I am scared. There was fear, but it passed. So I predict the ennui will pass too. I think ultimately he'll be ineffective and things will be more or less worse, but I'm hoping for limbo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzmpXz5d2z0

allegro
11-17-2016, 03:10 PM
How can it be equally weighted by population? If it were, then why wouldn't winning the popular vote by 1+ million votes give Clinton the corresponding number of electoral college votes? My understanding is that it is un-equally weighted, in order to give less populous states more clout.
It's equitably weighted to give less populated states a voice. Big states like California STILL have the most electoral college votes (and Representatives in the House) than anybody else, but if we went by population alone, they'd have their big fat thumb on the scale every time. See Huntington Hill Method (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huntington%E2%80%93Hill_method). See also this (http://faculty.mc3.edu/cvaughen/mgf1107/apportionment/apportionment_overview.html).

Deepvoid
11-17-2016, 03:13 PM
Looks like Clinton will end up with over 2M more votes than Trump. (http://www.ibtimes.com/latest-2016-election-results-clinton-trump-popular-vote-final-tally-depends-4-million-2447595)

allegate
11-17-2016, 03:45 PM
I kind of wish the news would stop with the whole "who will the electoral college vote for" because it's just a continuation of the same shit they've been saying for months now. I know you want ratings but let's refer back to ECON101 here with how Needs are more important than Wants. You want ratings but you need to inform the public.

Jinsai
11-17-2016, 03:48 PM
It's equitably weighted to give less populated states a voice. Big states like California STILL have the most electoral college votes (and Representatives in the House) than anybody else, but if we went by population alone, they'd have their big fat thumb on the scale every time. See Huntington Hill Method (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huntington%E2%80%93Hill_method). See also this (http://faculty.mc3.edu/cvaughen/mgf1107/apportionment/apportionment_overview.html).

and if we let this shit keep going on this way, we'll let the will of the people be disregarded. A lot more people would actually bother to fucking vote too. When you have a weird sort of representational democracy that shows voter-turnout to be up in small swing states just because people think their individual vote ACTUALLY matters, you have an election system that needs to be revised.

allegro
11-17-2016, 03:51 PM
and if we let this shit keep going on this way, we'll let the will of the people be disregarded. A lot more people would actually bother to fucking vote too. When you have a weird sort of representational democracy that shows voter-turnout to be up in small swing states just because people think their individual vote ACTUALLY matters, you have an election system that needs to be revised.
The individual states still determine which candidate wins in that state. It's a state-by-state election. The individual votes DO actually matter because the popular votes in that state elects the electors in that state. The voter turnout was DOWN for Clinton in some of the key states, too, and that wasn't good (and it was likely due to the friggin SCOTUS VRA decision). You change this, and could see a HUGE number of people showing up in populated areas to swing the vote in the direction you DON"T want toward the popular vote and then people could want the electoral system back again.

Of course, the whole reason we have it in this country is due to inequity in numbers and you know why? SLAVES COULDN'T VOTE. (http://time.com/4558510/electoral-college-history-slavery/) Which is pretty much the same problem we have today.

Dra508
11-17-2016, 04:41 PM
You heard she will retire on January 1, 2017? :(I did. How dare she want to stop working at 80!

Thankfully they prepped us listeners well in advance. Joshua Johnson is taking her time slot, hopefully he keeps some of the format and regular guests.

Did anyone see Elizabeth Warren's I'll be watching you Trump letter? Dayum!

Jinsai
11-17-2016, 04:58 PM
slightly off topic, but since the appeal is time-sensitive to the transition of power, what legal powers does the still-standing administration have to pardon Edward Snowden?

allegro
11-17-2016, 05:41 PM
slightly off topic, but since the appeal is time-sensitive to the transition of power, what legal powers does the still-standing administration have to pardon Edward Snowden?

Obama has the authority but he's been kinda a dick about Snowden.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/09/15/opinion/pardon-edward-snowden.html

allegro
11-17-2016, 05:51 PM
Did anyone see Elizabeth Warren's I'll be watching you Trump letter? Dayum!

Yeah, awesome. She's right; if he claims he can't find anybody in DC who isn't a lobbyist, then he needs to look harder or look OUTSIDE of DC.


http://www.warren.senate.gov/files/documents/2016-11-15-Trump_Letter.pdf

Dra508
11-17-2016, 10:30 PM
Yeah, awesome. She's right; if he claims he can't find anybody in DC who isn't a lobbyist, then he needs to look harder or look OUTSIDE of DC.


http://www.warren.senate.gov/files/documents/2016-11-15-Trump_Letter.pdf

He should ring up Romney. He's got a binder full of women.

bobbie solo
11-18-2016, 02:38 AM
Obama ain't gonna do shit about Snowden. Obama is NOT a progressive. He's a bit hawkish himself & didn't like the whistle blowing he was doing. He sikked Kerry on him (or at least didn't hold him back) back when all that shit was going down.

I could see him pardon Manning though...

Jinsai
11-18-2016, 02:41 AM
Obama ain't gonna do shit about Snowden. Obama is NOT a progressive. He's a bit hawkish himself & didn't like the whistle blowing he was doing. He sikked Kerry on him (or at least didn't hold him back) back when all that shit was going down.

I could see him pardon Manning though...

We're about to go into a super-majority GOP presidency. Die clean. Admit he did the right thing, called us out for our bullshit... set him free on your enemies, because he is a voice for objective informed truth, and right now that's at least the sentiment we need to prevent the downfall of our democracy.

aggroculture
11-18-2016, 08:35 AM
Obama missed that train back in 2013. He's not going to get on board it now. He won't pardon Chelsea Manning either. Though Trump will probably pardon Julian Assange - he certainly worked for it.

Given the situation we have now I am kinda annoyed with Obama: he could have been a waaaaay more progressive president and we'd still have this result. He wasted so much opportunity pandering to the right, being a centrist, and they spat in his face anyway.

Deepvoid
11-18-2016, 10:24 AM
Jeff Sessions confirmed as AG, Mike Pompeo as CIA Chief and Gen. Michael Flynn as National Security Advisor. Those are added to the already confirmed Priebus and Bannon.

Mantra
11-18-2016, 10:47 AM
If part of the reasoning behind the electoral college is that it's supposed to prevent a few specific areas from dominating the whole election, it doesn't seem to be working. At this point the election is basically just a strategy game where both sides target a very tiny group of swing voters and undecideds within a small number of swing states. That's more or less what all of our recent elections have come down to. So instead of having an election dominated by California, New York, and so on, we get elections dominated by swing voters in Florida, Ohio, etc. I don't see how that's any better.

I also fail to see the logic behind the argument that a more direct democracy would be unfair because high population areas would have more influence. Maybe I'm missing something, but what exactly is wrong with this? It makes sense to me. For better or worse, isn't a democracy supposed to be the rule of the majority? Why do we have a system where it's possible obtain power by winning LESS votes? It makes no sense. When electing a federal position that will impact every single individual in the entire country, the process should be pure and direct: one person, one vote, end of story.

Dra508
11-18-2016, 11:08 AM
Jeff Sessions confirmed as AG, Mike Pompeo as CIA Chief and Gen. Michael Flynn as National Security Advisor. Those are added to the already confirmed Priebus and Bannon.

Well. Actually the AG is a cabinet post that needs to be confirmed by the Senate. That hearing will be a shit show. A giant rubber stamp or some serious squirming by Sessions. The dude was denied a fed judgeship already.

Deepvoid
11-18-2016, 11:15 AM
Well. Actually the AG is a cabinet post that needs to be confirmed by the Senate. That hearing will be a shit show. A giant rubber stamp or some serious squirming by Sessions. The dude was denied a fed judgeship already.

Thanks for the clarification the AG position. In other words, it'll be Trump's first test with Congress. Should be interesting.

allegro
11-18-2016, 12:21 PM
If part of the reasoning behind the electoral college is that it's supposed to prevent a few specific areas from dominating the whole election, it doesn't seem to be working. At this point the election is basically just a strategy game where both sides target a very tiny group of swing voters and undecideds within a small number of swing states. That's more or less what all of our recent elections have come down to. So instead of having an election dominated by California, New York, and so on, we get elections dominated by swing voters in Florida, Ohio, etc. I don't see how that's any better.

I also fail to see the logic behind the argument that a more direct democracy would be unfair because high population areas would have more influence. Maybe I'm missing something, but what exactly is wrong with this? It makes sense to me. For better or worse, isn't a democracy supposed to be the rule of the majority? Why do we have a system where it's possible obtain power by winning LESS votes? It makes no sense. When electing a federal position that will impact every single individual in the entire country, the process should be pure and direct: one person, one vote, end of story.

Well, and especially now that it's more than obvious, with the CONSTANT lawsuits, that certain regions are suppressing minority votes to try to control certain electoral votes in various states, what used to be a state's rights system has become a system that only seems to be furthering a system of oppression.

I was always fully supportive of the electoral college, but with the SCOTUS gutting of the VRA the only way to "fix" our system is to eliminate the electoral college. I think we also need to then establish a national voter ID card with a national election board where it's REALLY easy to get the card, even old people who don't drive can get it (vs getting some shitty paper voter ID card that expires all the time from your local election board), and every voter can show his/her voter card and that's the ONLY card he/she has to show with no other ID necessary and it has to be something that is pretty much impossible to duplicate and then NOBODY can claim any "voter fraud" shit, and have a FEDERAL non-partisan entity as a watchdog overseeing the Federal election bureau. Each individual county's election bureau has become far too fucking partisan and corrupt, with too many shenanigans, it needs a GIANT DOUCHE.

onthewall2983
11-18-2016, 12:58 PM
Well. Actually the AG is a cabinet post that needs to be confirmed by the Senate. That hearing will be a shit show. A giant rubber stamp or some serious squirming by Sessions. The dude was denied a fed judgeship already.

What other positions have to be confirmed by them?

Dra508
11-18-2016, 01:07 PM
What other positions have to be confirmed by them?Quite a few:

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/thepresidentandcabinet/a/sentateconfirm.htm

Part of the gridlock in Washington has been Congress not holding hearings on a shit ton appointments that Obama has made that have not been confirmed.


In other news, one of my extremely vocal ultra liberal brothers is screaming on The Facebook that all this news about Bannon is just a smoke screen for Medicare and Medicaid being gutted by Ryan and Trump.

allegate
11-18-2016, 01:19 PM
So, what's the end game of the Republicans here? I'm not talking this year, I'm talking the long-con they've got going. What are they working towards? They're taking control of the states and the feds and it's looking like a total domination but to what end? I just don't see how there's an upside (other than their own pockets) for some of the moves they're making.

And I'm not saying they're inherently evil (though I will say that, if you want me to) I just don't see the objective reason for what they're doing.

allegro
11-18-2016, 02:27 PM
In other news, one of my extremely vocal ultra liberal brothers is screaming on The Facebook that all this news about Bannon is just a smoke screen for Medicare and Medicaid being gutted by Ryan and Trump.
I was worried about that, too, but I have not yet received anything from the AARP about that, and I'm a member (LOL, yeah) and usually the AARP is all over this shit, sending me petitions to sign or letters to send to Congress the second anything happens. I even looked on the AARP site and there isn't anything there as a red flag, yet, so I think the media is mostly pointing at Ryan's anti-Medicare agenda as being in Ryan's crosshairs but Trump has said that Medicare and Social Security are the third rail he doesn't want to touch, so I guess no official word has come down regarding these issues, yet.

If these toxic twins DO touch these programs, there's gonna be a fucking Boomer Riot. Ryan is talking hacking into CURRENT Medicare recipients' benefits with vouchers, not just future, which is SUCH FUCKING BULLSHIT, people PAID INTO MEDICARE THEIR ENTIRE FUCKING LIVES and now they'd have to pay, like, $1000 per month PREMIUMS out of their $1,800 per month Social Security check and the Government would give them, like, an $800 voucher? "Fuck them, let them starve" is the way Ryan looks at it, with his Ayn Rand "let the strongest survive and let the rest of the die" attitude. He's fucking evil, that guy.

allegro
11-18-2016, 02:34 PM
So, what's the end game of the Republicans here? I'm not talking this year, I'm talking the long-con they've got going. What are they working towards? They're taking control of the states and the feds and it's looking like a total domination but to what end? I just don't see how there's an upside (other than their own pockets) for some of the moves they're making.

And I'm not saying they're inherently evil (though I will say that, if you want me to) I just don't see the objective reason for what they're doing.
They're inherently evil. There's no "good" way to look at this other than their own benefit and gain.

Ryan announced yesterday that he wanted to bring back earmarks, the ones that Boehner took away, the fucking moron. But now, he said "whoa whoa okay wait" (http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/16/politics/house-republicans-earmarks/) after getting pressure from other members who said WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING, YOU MORON??!??!


Arizona GOP Sen. Jeff Flake, a champion of the reform when he served in the House, warned ahead of the vote in a speech on the Senate floor Tuesday that "you can't drain the swamps by feeding the alligators pork."

Ryan wants to:

* Privatize Social Security
* Eliminate Medicare and Medicaid (Medicare would be replaced by private insurance and the Government would provide vouchers, Medicaid would be state-run)
* Lower or eliminate corporate taxes
* Get rid of the ACA and who cares if they replace it, let everybody get their own insurance

Really, he doesn't care if everybody dies, he's a millionaire.

This BULLSHIT line "we have to worry about our grandchildren" -- YOU KNOW WHAT, FUCK THAT SHIT. NO, WE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT ALL THESE AGING PEOPLE, WE CAN'T JUST LET THEM ALL FUCKING STARVE TO DEATH, OKAY?

A CIVILIZED SOCIETY is one that CARES FOR AND RESPECTS ITS AGING POPULATION and doesn't make it choose between medicine and food. BUT THAT'S WHAT WE ARE DOING.

Fuck this "grandchildren" shit, LET'S WORRY ABOUT NOW, and STOP WORRYING AND PROTECTING THE RICH PEOPLE.

You could SOLVE this problem RIGHT NOW by removing the CAP on Social Security withholding (right now they stop withholding money for Social Security from your check after $118,500) plus, really, since not enough people put away retirement funds, we're gonna have to raise the payroll tax on everybody. It is what it is. JUST DO IT. You can't CUT funds, you have to INCREASE the funds we have put aside.

To answer your question: THEIR OWN POCKET. It's been their "end game" since Reagan and when shit like this (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbarians_at_the_Gate_(film)) started people at the top keeping everything.

Deepvoid
11-18-2016, 04:48 PM
Sorry to be switching subject a bit but reports are that Huckabee will be ambassador to Israel and that they will move the embassy to Jerusalem.

I'm not very familiar with this issue with the US embassy so what are some of the impacts this could have?

allegro
11-18-2016, 04:53 PM
Sorry to be switching subject a bit but reports are that Huckabee will be ambassador to Israel and that they will move the embassy to Jerusalem.

I'm not very familiar with this issue with the US embassy so what are some of the impacts this could have?

These politicians are fucking OBSESSED with moving the Embassy to Jerusalem, due to pressure from Israel, but they're afraid due to pressure from the Middle East. SEE THIS (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/19/world/middleeast/jerusalem-us-embassy-trump.html). We declared Jerusalem to be Israel's "capital" back in 1995 (like "poof" what we say is truth, wtf) but we've put off actually moving our Embassy there ever since.

The bottom line, of course, is that siding with Israel means going against Muslims. Or that's how it LOOKS, anyway. And people like HUCKABEE? He ONLY gives a shit about Jerusalem because of its Holy Land status (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mike-huckabee-tour-guide-in-the-holy-land/2015/02/22/f0395335-1716-4f7f-9ce6-5e12c781d823_story.html).


Afterward, Sturgeon said that when he quotes Genesis 12:3, this gathering understands what it means.

“And I will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses you I will curse,” the passage reads.

“That means if you are a friend of Israel, you are okay,” the pastor said. “If you’re an enemy, you’re in real trouble. God doesn’t change his mind about this stuff. It’s an eternal book.”

Dra508
11-18-2016, 05:37 PM
^^^ Those Huckabee folks side with Israel only because the end of the world as we know it can only happen with Israel intact - or some biblical bullshit like that.

aggroculture
11-18-2016, 05:42 PM
I'm waiting for George Zimmerman to be offered a cabinet position.

allegro
11-18-2016, 05:51 PM
^^^ Those Huckabee folks side with Israel only because the end of the world as we know it can only happen with Israel intact - or some biblical bullshit like that.

The Holy Rollers quote a whole BUNCH of scripture saying that you have to protect Jerusalem and Israel and Jews (see also above).

Exocet
11-18-2016, 07:02 PM
Do you remember when Trump was calling for Obamas birth certificate back in 2011....just before Bin Laden was Killed
They wanted to prove he was born in Kenya....
How unfathomable it was back then in 2011...that this man would become president.
How was this able to happen...what weaknesses were there in the system???
im not at all comparing Trump to Adolf Hitler...but the liberal Weimar Republic in Germany the 1920s which preceeded Nazi Germany had major flaws.
Im just trying to figure out what caused the old system to collapse because his being elected and socialist Bernie making waves has changed everything. There is no going back.

allegro
11-18-2016, 07:16 PM
How was this able to happen...what weaknesses were there in the system???
There is no weakness in "the system." Trump saw an opportunity and took it; he wasn't the one who invented the "birther" movement; a bunch of racist jerks on the LEFT who supported Hillary Clinton invented that nonsense in 2008 (http://www.politico.com/story/2011/04/birtherism-where-it-all-began-053563); Trump saw that hugely-growing movement and saw it a fast-growing area and capitalized on it. The voters voted him in.

If you want to compare Trump to Hitler, you can say that both men saw the lower class people's need and addressed it with a bunch of charismatic rhetoric that the people wanted to hear.

RE Trump: SEE ALSO. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlatan)

Exocet
11-18-2016, 07:27 PM
There is no weakness in "the system." Trump saw an opportunity and took it; he wasn't the one who invented the "birther" movement; a bunch of racist jerks on the LEFT who supported Hillary Clinton invented that nonsense in 2008 (http://www.politico.com/story/2011/04/birtherism-where-it-all-began-053563); Trump saw that hugely-growing movement and saw it a fast-growing area and capitalized on it. The voters voted him in.

If you want to compare Trump to Hitler, you can say that both men saw the lower class people's need and addressed it with a bunch of charismatic rhetoric that the people wanted to hear.

RE Trump: SEE ALSO. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlatan)

I dont think there is a weakness in American Democracy....at all...its rock strong..and Trump will be kept in his place....i mean the system that surrounds it. I dunno it just feels like a new era...this election changed everything.

Its just the contrast seems so radical between Obama and Trump...

allegro
11-18-2016, 07:45 PM
I dont think there is a weakness in American Democracy....at all...its rock strong..and Trump will be kept in his place....i mean the system that surrounds it. I dunno it just feels like a new era...this election changed everything.

Its just the contrast seems so radical between Obama and Trump...
Well, YEAH ... if we weren't conservative enough already, now we have moved into an era where Trump wants to make FUCKING JEFF SESSIONS the Attorney General. This is like making Hitler the Chief of Police. The ACLU is already circulating a petition. (https://action.aclu.org/secure/sessions-long-history?emsrc=Nat_Appeal_AutologinEnabled&emissue=racialjustice_votingrights_LGBTrights_crim inallawreform&emtype=petition&ms=eml_161118_racialjustice_votingrights_LGBTright s_criminallawreform&__af=query_string_encrypted)

It's like the most conservative ASSHOLES -- citizens and politicians -- have completely taken over our country.

This alt-right shit has completely taken over. (It's been moving in that direction for a while, but putting a black dude in the White House probably pushed it over the edge for a lot of white people.)

Like, see this article (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-alt-right-code-words-20161116-story.html?lkj8328235); I was laughing (but trying not to cry, ugh) at how true all of this stupid shit is, how we see it online everywhere, it exists PRIMARILY in the online world, and it's TAKEN OVER THE UNITED STATES.


Stephen K. Bannon's fringe brand of conservatism is suddenly front and center, after he was named to be chief strategist in Donald Trump’s White House. As the chairman of Breitbart News, Bannon turned the website into, in his own words, the "go-to platform of the alt-right” – a far-right ideology that promotes white nationalism, racism, anti-Semitism, homophobia and misogyny.

This week, we examined the general worldview of the alt-right. But how can you identify someone who considers themselves part of it? Like most groups, the alt-right has its own code words and slang. Here are some terms they use, and other hallmarks to look out for:

Beta: Members of the alt-right are obsessed with masculinity, manhood, gender roles and the concept of "alpha" and "beta" males. Alpha males are leaders, like Trump; beta males are weak and emasculated, meaning all men who disagree with them.

Crybaby, whiny: Anyone who disagrees with them or their preferred candidate, particularly protesters and people who object to the alt-right's embrace of racism and anti-Semitism.

Cuckservative, cuck: The term "cuckservative" originated in the alt-right. It's a portmanteau of "conservative" and "cuckold" used to describe Republicans who are perceived to be emasculated or "selling out." Frequently shortened to "cuck," the term has come under scrutiny for its racist implications (http://www.gq.com/story/why-angry-white-men-love-calling-people-cucks).

Ethno-demographics: Despite the fact that racism is at the heart of its platform, the alt-right is very sensitive about being called racist. They use the term "ethno-demographics" as a more scientific-sounding way of referring to issues of race.

Libtard: The alt-right revels in the rejection of "political correctness," so embracing an outdated term for a person with an intellectual disability ("retard") serves the double purpose of insulting liberals and deliberately using a cruel word.

Masculinist: A word meant to embody the opposite of feminist. To the alt-right, "masculinist" principles are ones that serve and advocate for men, primarily in ways that reinforce antiquated gender roles.

Memes: The modern alt-right originated in places like 4chan and 8chan, which are hubs for meme creation. Meme creation is still a centerpiece of the movement. The alt-right is responsible for getting the Pepe the Frog meme classified as a hate symbol.

Multiculturalism (as a derogatory term): A major component of the alt-right platform is white supremacy and nationalism. "Multiculturalism" is used as a negative term for places where people of different races live together. Often used as shorthand for policies that benefit immigrants and people of color.

Political correctness: Anything that challenges an alt-right person's right to say whatever they want, whenever they want, in any way they want to say it. According to the alt-right, political correctness is responsible for most of society's ills, including feminism, Islamic terrorism and overly liberal college campuses.

Snowflake: Short for "special snowflake," a pejorative for an entitled person. Most people protesting Trump are "snowflakes," according to the alt-right, as are anti-Trump celebrities and most liberals.

SJW: Short for "social justice warrior," this insult is mostly reserved for young women who try to argue on behalf of liberal or feminist ideas.

White genocide: What many alt-right members feel is the natural conclusion of liberalism and pro-immigrant policies. The alt-right views just about anything that benefits nonwhite people, particularly ones who aren't American citizens, as a risk to whiteness and a step on the road to the eradication of the white race.

Neoreactionaries: Also known as NRx and the "Dark Enlightenment." A group of people who think their supposed superior intellect makes them more capable of rational thought than everyone else, despite the fact that they all come to the same conclusions about their own superiority. They advocate for libertarianism, traditional gender roles and neofascism.

Jinsai
11-18-2016, 08:22 PM
absolutely every appointment so far feels like madness. Pompeo for head of the CIA... yeah, why not have a hyper-partisan Tea Party guy who said he wants to execute Snowden, expand the Patriot Act and warrantless surveillance programs... I'm not hearing enough outrage from libertarian relatives and friends about that one.

But why not? We're already getting an MRA alt-right propagandist anti-semite as the chief advisor... and our attorney general was found to be unfit to be a judge due to his history of racism and anti-semitism... and now there's talk that Sarah Palin is being floated to become secretary of the interior... What's next? Can we get Scott Baio to run something?

I guess we can at least be glad the Huckabee thing turned out to not be true?

Mantra
11-18-2016, 09:52 PM
Yeah Trump winning was awful, but somehow I actually find his cabinet almost more horrific than Trump himself. Honestly...Jeff Sessions?? Are you fucking kidding me?? What happened to all that "draining the swamp" talk? What a load of bullshit. It didn't even take one week before the facade came down.

The next four years in America politics are going to be pure dogshit.

Deepvoid
11-18-2016, 09:56 PM
If John Bolton gets SoS you guys are going to war with Iran.

cashpiles (closed)
11-18-2016, 11:11 PM
Something that may have never been considered. What the hell would we call the husband of a female President? Nobody has ever considered this. Hillary could have changed all of that.

The male President's wife is called the First Lady. What about the husband of a female President? First Gentleman? First Man?

allegro
11-18-2016, 11:14 PM
Nobody was really able to answer that question during the entire election.

I think everybody finally settled on "First Dude."

Honestly, in this case, they would have kept on calling him President Clinton (like we still do now). So we would have had two President Clintons in the White House.


But why not? We're already getting an MRA alt-right propagandist anti-semite as the chief advisor... and our attorney general was found to be unfit to be a judge due to his history of racism and anti-semitism... and now there's talk that Sarah Palin is being floated to become secretary of the interior... What's next? Can we get Scott Baio to run something?
David Duke is waiting for his appointment, for sure.

Jinsai
11-18-2016, 11:47 PM
David Duke is waiting for his appointment, for sure.

When is he going to get around to appointing grand wizard anyway?

bobbie solo
11-19-2016, 12:58 AM
I'm trying to take solace in the hope that the more extreme these appointments are, coupled with Trump's long history of being a failed businessman, husband & fathern...a con artist and exuding overall ineptitude at running things will means a 2020 victory for Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders. He's already entering office with a very low approval rating. Add in all the terrible things these assholes will do and I just can't see how he'll get re-elected, despite all the cheating the right does with voting.

Key word is "hope".

Oh, I also bought this t-shirt and plan on wearing it everywhere it won't get me beat up. I wore it to work yesterday (I work at an R&B/hip hop/gospel radio station cluster so I'm safe):

http://www.metalinjection.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Municipal-Waste-Donald-Trump-tshirt.jpg

aggroculture
11-19-2016, 01:22 AM
I'm trying to take solace in the hope that the more extreme these appointments are, coupled with Trump's long history of being a failed businessman, husband & fathern...a con artist and exuding overall ineptitude at running things will means a 2020 victory for Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders. He's already entering office with a very low approval rating. Add in all the terrible things these assholes will do and I just can't see how he'll get re-elected, despite all the cheating the right does with voting.

I applaud your optimism...but I can't share it: he just got elected president by a shit ton of people.
Also, I applaud your courage in wearing that shirt. I would be scared to wear it even in the house: someone could ring the doorbell and I'd forget I was wearing it.
MW are a great band, they should do a whole album on that theme.

Mantra
11-19-2016, 01:50 AM
Welp, just spent the last hour reading all about pizzagate after seeing everyone at r/the_donald losing their minds over it.

These people literally believe that the Clintons/Podesta are involved in a secret global pedophile cult. They uncovered this after meticulously combing through the leaked emails and discovering that seemingly random references to pizza were actually secret code words used to discuss their pedo activities.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pizzagate/

onthewall2983
11-19-2016, 01:50 AM
I applaud your optimism...but I can't share it: he just got elected president by a shit ton of people.

Repeat after me: 53% of the electorate.

hellospaceboy
11-19-2016, 01:53 AM
This is not a big story, but I like it! Some people say that booing him was a bad move, since he was trying to reach out in a way by seeing the play, but I say fuck him, he can get a little booing, let's not forget that this man believes in electrocuting gay teens until they're cured... so yes, no symphaty from me.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/19/vice-president-elect-mike-pence-booed-at-hamilton.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/19/vice-president-elect-mike-pence-booed-at-hamilton.html)

allegro
11-19-2016, 02:50 AM
Welp, just spent the last hour reading all about pizzagate after seeing everyone at r/the_donald losing their minds over it.

These people literally believe that the Clintons/Podesta are involved in a secret global pedophile cult. They uncovered this after meticulously combing through the leaked emails and discovering that seemingly random references to pizza were actually secret code words used to discuss their pedo activities.

https://www.reddit.com/r/pizzagate/

OMG I kept seeing that #pizzagate shit all over Twitter on these crazy morons' posts related to the Podesta brothers and was wondering wtf was going on. Evidently, they believe Sessions is gonna get to the bottom of it. ROSEANNE BARR BELIEVES IT, too.

bobbie solo -- Bernie Sanders won't run again, he's 75 years old.

bobbie solo
11-19-2016, 02:57 AM
aggroculture, its all I got. I'm as down as you are but I'm trying to find something to hold on to.
allegro he's been asked a few times if he's running again, as has his wife, and they've played coy with their answers. You're prolly right but him playing coy gives me hope.

allegro
11-19-2016, 05:07 AM
allegro he's been asked a few times if he's running again, as has his wife, and they've played coy with their answers. You're prolly right but him playing coy gives me hope.
He's being coy to avoid taking away hope right now at a time when people need to be hopeful. But in 4 years, he'll be pushing 80.

In 4 years, I suspect some young progressive might come out of nowhere.

aggroculture
11-19-2016, 08:21 AM
Repeat after me: 53% of the electorate.

you mean 53% voted against Trump?
still, 60+ million US Americans think he'll make a good president and that's royally fucked up

onthewall2983
11-19-2016, 11:45 AM
Fair enough, although I'm learning to disassociate reality from polls anymore, which should make my previous post irrelevant.

Sutekh
11-19-2016, 12:20 PM
The new CIA chief is a total joke. This is just incompetence. If anyone can offer a defence I would love to hear it.

Mantra
11-19-2016, 02:18 PM
This is not a big story, but I like it! Some people say that booing him was a bad move, since he was trying to reach out in a way by seeing the play, but I say fuck him, he can get a little booing, let's not forget that this man believes in electrocuting gay teens until they're cured... so yes, no symphaty from me.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/19/vice-president-elect-mike-pence-booed-at-hamilton.html (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/11/19/vice-president-elect-mike-pence-booed-at-hamilton.html)

The most hilarious thing about this is seeing Trump whining this morning that the theatre should be a safe place. Lol.

Jinsai
11-19-2016, 05:22 PM
wait... how did I miss the appointment of Myron Ebell to lead the transition team for the EPA?!?! That goes way beyond hiring a fox to guard the hen house...

This is the face of the "fuck the environment" movement! You could not pick someone worse!

allegro
11-19-2016, 06:29 PM
It's a whole oceanliner of crazy conservative right wing old farts.

I hope it hits a melting iceberg.

And that con man Shuster is back at trying to hand air traffic control to the airlines and a private board (with his wife on the board) again, handing billions of dollars of taxpayer-owned technology and equipment over to private companies. Never mind that other privatized ATC systems a fraction of our size filed for bankruptcy after Sept 11. And all that national security stuff being handled by such competency as United Airlines (cough). Happy flying!! Oh, by the way, the cost will all be added to airline tickets.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/rundown/house-chairman-trump-favors-privatizing-air-traffic-control

I'll be driving, thanks.

Jinsai
11-19-2016, 08:10 PM
Myron Ebell is the director of this Competitive Enterprise Institute, and they approved this message (it is still hosted by their youtube page) in 2006:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sGKvDNdJNA

allegro
11-19-2016, 09:12 PM
Now Trump is allegedly considering Romney for Secretary of State. Which would be good news, relatively speaking. If Romney would even consider the offer.

allegro
11-19-2016, 09:35 PM
Meanwhile, this is some CRAZY SHIT wtf: https://twitter.com/snowden/status/800077406862090240


Romney is a sideshow (https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/pentagon-and-intelligence-community-chiefs-have-urged-obama-to-remove-the-head-of-the-nsa/2016/11/19/44de6ea6-adff-11e6-977a-1030f822fc35_story.html#). The real story you're not hearing about is a revolt within the US Intelligence Community.

Dra508
11-19-2016, 10:38 PM
Now Trump is allegedly considering Romney for Secretary of State. Which would be good news, relatively speaking. If Romney would even consider the offer.

No fucking way. Trump's biggest Achilles heel is his inability to let shit go. Romney pissed him off.

Honestly, I'm starting to think Trump is hiding because he didn't realize how hard actually being president would be.

And some one please take his phone from him. He should NOT be tweeting ever again.

Jinsai
11-19-2016, 10:43 PM
a conversation I recently had on Facebook... I don't know, I don't need to repost it here... it just frustrated the shit out of me. When you actually do try to talk to these people, it becomes pretty impossible pretty fast.

allegro
11-19-2016, 11:35 PM
^ he's probably talking about the Clinton Foundation investigations, but who knows.

He's talking about PIZZAGATE!!! Ugh

Jinsai
11-20-2016, 12:45 AM
what the hell is Pizzagate?

implanted_microchip
11-20-2016, 01:00 AM
what the hell is Pizzagate?

Oh boy

Trump fans on reddit were insistent that the wikileaks emails -- in the eternal search to find larger crimes in them than there were ever gonna be -- contain "secret code" between Podesta and Hillary where random references to pizza are actually somehow about child pornography, also Hillary Clinton is a literal witch sacrificing people and casting spells and I'm not even imagining any of this, this is shit these people claimed in the final few days and now post-election.

Wild times

Mantra
11-20-2016, 01:26 AM
Yeah, reading through the pizzagate subreddit the other night left me feeling like my brain was on fire. And seeing that it had over 17,000 subscribers was pretty depressing. How does something like that even happen? What exactly is happening with their brains? Are they all mentally ill? All 17,000 of them?

Jinsai
11-20-2016, 02:02 AM
are you fucking kidding me? Is this a joke? Seriously,... guys.. c'mon now...

[this is just me venting at nothing particular except everything and not directed towards anyone here or anything anyone is saying]

Mantra
11-20-2016, 02:32 AM
are you fucking kidding me? Is this a joke? Seriously,... guys.. c'mon now...

lol, here's the subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/pizzagate/

Here's the "condensed summary" that they made about this insanity: http://i.sli.mg/6eSq79.jpg

If you don't have the stomach for any of that, here's an article with an overview of the whole thing: http://www.inquisitr.com/3723141/what-is-pizzagate-bizarre-conspiracy-theory-claims-hillary-clinton-is-part-of-an-underground-pedophile-ring-debunked/

telee.kom
11-20-2016, 10:10 AM
I'm pretty sure this sub is a joke with some Poe's law thrown in for a good measure.

elevenism
11-20-2016, 11:22 AM
i still can't really discuss this.
i am still in shock.
President Donald Trump.
It just does not compute.

Mantra
11-20-2016, 12:50 PM
I'm pretty sure this sub is a joke with some Poe's law thrown in for a good measure.

Nah, I wish it was a joke. It started on the_donald after the Podesta email leaks and then branched out onto it's own.

botley
11-20-2016, 01:56 PM
Keep your eyes on the prize. (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/obama-loyalists-trump-resistance-231642)

Jinsai
11-20-2016, 02:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OauLuWXD_RI&app=desktop

Although it's worth noting that RT (russia today) followed up with an interview with the guy in the video, where he claimed they pranked Samantha Bee.

Then again, RT is possibly a propaganda arm for the government, so there's that...

Sutekh
11-20-2016, 03:29 PM
While the left continues to stick to the "because bigots" narrative, look what's happening in France with another far-right leader...
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161120/c0eaef2079685bb9f48fc9e24fcc4659.jpg

LOL POLLS

What is funny about an openly homophobic party gaining support

Do you really think LePen leads a party of feet on the ground civic nationalists?

France is pretty right wing to begin with and people are terrified after all the recent attacks, that's why they are flocking to these tricksters

Seriously, do you think this is funny?

Exocet
11-20-2016, 03:43 PM
No country has ever been more ripe for a populist uprising than France in 2016. After what they have been through past couple years...plus shitty economy, massive unemployment. The UK and US problems which led to revolt seem tame in comparison.
And the French elites are still putting their fingers in their ears. They are literally repeating the mistakes made by the UK,US and oblivious, dont seem to have learnt anything....
Its like watching a slow mo car crash.

Sutekh
11-20-2016, 04:19 PM
Denial over what? Immigration?

WorzelG
11-20-2016, 05:11 PM
Denialism in how they look at others and how the fail to look at themselves. I don't want to get into a lengthy critique, so i'll sum up the most egregious failings: They think that people who vote against the left are motivated by bigotry. They think that repeating the labels of bigotry are a sufficient way to run a campaign. They don't think there is anything about their own platform that could possibly turn away voters... it's just that bigots like the right's platform.


I don't know know enough about UK and France to say this is a perfect summary, but I've heard of many examples that line up here. For the USA though, yes absolutely this fits.

On the UK side, brexit was beyond a left versus right issue. It was basically anti globalisation, a lot of far left Marxist types hated what the EU represented and people on the left campaigned for Leave . They want protectionism, not globalisation.

Sutekh
11-20-2016, 05:30 PM
Denialism in how they look at others and how the fail to look at themselves. I don't want to get into a lengthy critique, so i'll sum up the most egregious failings: They think that people who vote against the left are motivated by bigotry. They think that repeating the labels of bigotry are a sufficient way to run a campaign. They don't think there is anything about their own platform that could possibly turn away voters... it's just that bigots like the right's platform.


I don't know know enough about UK and France to say this is a perfect summary, but I've heard of many examples that line up here. For the USA though, yes absolutely this fits.

What are their own shortcomings which they fail to address or reflect upon?

hellospaceboy
11-20-2016, 06:23 PM
It would be preferable to have the left reflect on themselves and fix this shit

I know you said that about the french elections, but I feel like it might apply to the US as well...

While you might be right, I kept thinking the same about the right in 2008 and especially in 2012: that they need to reflect on what happened and change course or be left behind and keep losing. But instead they went the opposite way, dug their heels in, they sit out the "left" and now they're BACK! So who knows, the Trump honeymoon might end with a lot of leaning back to the left...

Also, I find the right even more amusing to watch now: it's true that the Republican candidate got in the White House, but without them! It's someone who shit on them for a year, name-called them, and they have no control over whatsoever. In a way, they're even more fucked than the left. It's easier to rebuild when you lost and everything burned to the ground. The Republicans (and the right in general) has to try to regain control with Trump in power...

Mantra
11-20-2016, 07:22 PM
They think that people who vote against the left are motivated by bigotry. They think that repeating the labels of bigotry are a sufficient way to run a campaign. They don't think there is anything about their own platform that could possibly turn away voters... it's just that bigots like the right's platform. The things that motivate each voter are complicated, and if you're trying to analyze why millions of people vote for someone, that's even more complex. Nevertheless, I think it's pretty reasonable to depict Trump's comments about immigrants and Muslims as bigoted. When you stand on a stage and stereotype the majority of immigrants coming from a particular country as rapists and murderers, that is, in fact, bigotry.

There is definitely more to discuss than bigotry. There's economics, regionalism, culture wars, a fuzzy resentment of "the establishment" and so on. But none of those things mean that bigotry and racism aren't part of this, or that calling out the racism is a mistake. For that matter, it's not really possible to neatly disentangle all of these issues. For example, if you want to talk about the plight of the working class and the economic struggles people are facing, it's worth pointing out that Trump is using the tried and true technique of scapegoating immigrants as the cause of economic struggle. For his working class supporters (who, according to exit polls, are not nearly as numerous as everyone theorized), the blame for their condition lies with Chinese outsourcing and those damn immigrants who come and take our jobs. So you can't discuss any of these issues in isolation. Even for the motivations that are understandable and totally legitimate ("I want to have a decent job with good pay"), they are rolled together with other ideas that are pretty shitty ("undocumented immigrants from Latin America are criminals who have personally robbed me of a living").

Now Trump and his supporters want to recreate the story and deny the racist elements of their movement. They want to project this image of being stereotyped as racists who really just want to fix the economy. Any decent critical thinker should be able to see through this. This isn't about personal opinions. It's an objective fact of reality that Donald Trump described the majority if Mexican immigrants as rapists and criminals. You can't reasonably deny the bigotry of Trump unless you want to live in a fantasy world. This understandably makes a lot of Trump supporters mad because, in spite of their shitty attitudes, they still don't want to imagine themselves as bad people, so they deflect the issue and try to reframe the narrative. But just because they want to see things from a warped and dishonest perspective doesn't mean that I'm going to go along with their nonsense, and you shouldn't either.

Dra508
11-20-2016, 09:53 PM
Oh boy

Trump fans on reddit were insistent that the wikileaks emails -- in the eternal search to find larger crimes in them than there were ever gonna be -- contain "secret code" between Podesta and Hillary where random references to pizza are actually somehow about child pornography, also Hillary Clinton is a literal witch sacrificing people and casting spells and I'm not even imagining any of this, this is shit these people claimed in the final few days and now post-election.

Wild times

Thanks for explaining this. Going into Reddit makes me feel like I need to take an hour long shower using bleach.

Conspiracy theorists really need to focus on the shit life they have and figure that out rather than seeing things that aren't there.

Jinsai
11-20-2016, 10:29 PM
so... IS there evidence that Hillary Clinton is being currently investigated by both the FBI and the IRS for something? I am not pulling up anything conclusive.

Not that it really matters at this point, but more a consideration about the way the news is rolling out.

Vertigo
11-21-2016, 09:13 AM
Meanwhile, Trump settles his numerous fraud lawsuits for $25 million.

onthewall2983
11-21-2016, 10:51 AM
Some guy wrote a book in 1998 that foretold this election apparently (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/books/richard-rortys-1998-book-suggested-election-2016-was-coming.html?_r=0)

bobbie solo
11-21-2016, 11:40 AM
Meanwhile, Trump settles his numerous fraud lawsuits for $25 million.

I'm no fan of Obama or Hillary, but could you IMAGINE if that happened with one of them? It would be wall to wall discussion and debate. Tearing the person down etc etc. But with this the cowardly TV media utter barely a peep. Feckless. And it wouldn't matter except for the fact that they shape the nat'l news narrative for millions and millions of casual viewers. Major problem.

allegate
11-21-2016, 12:51 PM
Some guy wrote a book in 1998 that foretold this election apparently (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/books/richard-rortys-1998-book-suggested-election-2016-was-coming.html?_r=0)Impressive. Too bad he died, he'd be an interesting interview.

aggroculture
11-21-2016, 01:03 PM
I'm no fan of Obama or Hillary, but could you IMAGINE if that happened with one of them? It would be wall to wall discussion and debate. Tearing the person down etc etc. But with this the cowardly TV media utter barely a peep. Feckless. And it wouldn't matter except for the fact that they shape the nat'l news narrative for millions and millions of casual viewers. Major problem.

If it were Obama or Hillary, Republicans would not let it go for years. Trump has so many scandals that, well, where do you start? I'm starting to think that it's a deliberate, misdirection strategy. Throw so much shit at us that after a while we just go "ah, fuck it, I'll just wear this shit suit, maybe it doesn't smell so bad."

Deepvoid
11-21-2016, 01:59 PM
For real? How about starting with:
- why did Dems lose to Donald fucking TRUMP? It's not like Trump did really well. Hillary just did horribly.
- why did so many Dems view Hillary as unappealing?
- why are many voters giving up faith when it comes to the Dem's promises?

A lot of voters who used to believe in what the Dems were selling are giving up. They see that nothing changes, and in some cases it just gets worse for people. Obama at least gave people a hope that he would bring something new. Hillary was the establishment, and unapologetically so. Everything bad about her didn't matter because, "hey, Trump is worse so what are you gonna do!" People want change and the Dems failed to supply the demand.

Clinton got almost as many votes as Obama in 2012. She's now up to 63.6M compared to Obama's 65.9M.
Of course she was poorly viewed by a majority of Dems voters but still, she didn't lose by much when you look at the three states that turned red.
She's -13k in Michigan, -58k in PA and -28k in WI.
Those are the 100,000 votes that changed the outcome of the elections.

I think the message would have been clearer had she lost in a humiliating way.

Jinsai
11-21-2016, 03:20 PM
This is the problem though... this disaffected non-voter, claiming that they didn't really see a difference. First off, why are we accepting this sort of misanthropic bewilderment to be a call for change? If this person doesn't see a wild difference in the candidates, they aren't doing any real research. Couple this with misinformation campaigns to collude with Infowars to fire up conspiracy theorists to support Trump (or at least oppose Clinton, because she's a goblin who smells like sulfur or rotting meat or something... just like the bible says demons smell). Roger Stone openly negotiated that alliance, and I'm suspect at the proliferation of it through many of these fake news outlets. Either way, this crap confused the hell out of people who don't really look into issues. Just today I tried to argue with someone that Clinton didn't actually hire actors to play Klansmen at Trump rallies.

This sort of voter is a useful idiot. Maybe they grew complacent with the concept of stagnant leadership, and forgot how bad things could get. Maybe they don't actually have a basic functioning understanding of how government works. Maybe they didn't realize that they weren't just voting for the president, but propositions and other vital appointments. Maybe they don't understand that the president then selects appointments to crucial positions in government, and with the republicans controlling things, I think a lot of these even ridiculous and controversial appointments will come to pass.

Also, why am I not hearing libertarians horrified at the choice for the head of the CIA?

Do they understand that there is an open SCOTUS seat, with two liberals pushing on in the years? Ginsberg is 83, Stephen Breyer is 78. Once the current vacancy is filled, the court will already be stacked five to four in favor of the Republicans.

Our system of checks and balances is failing to keep things sane here. This is bad, and the people who didn't see a real difference there are about to find out how wrong they were the hard way. Supreme Court seats aren't just part of our constantly swinging partisan pendulum.

aggroculture
11-21-2016, 03:32 PM
forgot how bad things could get...
...and the people who didn't see a real difference there are about to find out how wrong they were the hard way.

I don't think they forgot, I think plenty of Trump voters are simply ignorant, they don't know history, they know nothing of oppressive regimes around the world.
They don't know about the Cultural Revolution, the Eastern Bloc, they don't know about fascist regimes in Europe and death squads in South America. They have no idea how bad life can get, and how good they've had it. Yet they've just voted to open those floodgates.

implanted_microchip
11-21-2016, 03:32 PM
Ginsberg will likely chain her corpse to her seat if she has to and hire people to Weekend at Bernie's her body just to keep it safe for the next four years

implanted_microchip
11-21-2016, 04:40 PM
Guys what the hell is even going on

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/gabbard-trump-transition/index.html

streetman
11-21-2016, 04:55 PM
Guys what the hell is even going on

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/11/21/politics/gabbard-trump-transition/index.html

I think we're all slowly discovering what we kinda all already knew: Trump is not a Republican.

implanted_microchip
11-21-2016, 05:01 PM
I think we're all slowly discovering what we kinda all already knew: Trump is not a Republican.

I mean yeah he's always been an amorphous self-advancing greed golem but this is just next level bananas, the thought of someone like her in the same administration as someone like Priebus or Bannon is the best case I've seen for all of this being some bizarre death dream as the universe commits molecular suicide

Jinsai
11-21-2016, 05:26 PM
Well.... poor people (you know, the ones the Dems claim to support) tend to fit this pattern. Even THEY were able to see the establishment stink on Hillary. But lots of them supported Obama. To call them idiots isn't really fair. They simply view government as something that isn't part of their lives. Government isn't for them because it has shown it isn't for them. They know they can't count on government.
But that's an incredibly simplistic and ignorant perspective. Government is part of your life, whether you want it to be or not. These decisions affect your life directly, even if you willfully remove yourself from the process that ultimately shapes history. The consequences of what we just voted for are insane. Indifference isn't something I sympathize with right now

cashpiles (closed)
11-21-2016, 06:11 PM
I think we're all slowly discovering what we kinda all already knew: Trump is not a Republican.


and we're slowly discovering that Trump is going to make America great again.

allegro
11-21-2016, 07:47 PM
I think we're all slowly discovering what we kinda all already knew: Trump is not a Republican.

If you mean because he is crossing party lines with appointments, that is incorrect. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_political_appointments_acros s_party_lines)

allegro
11-21-2016, 08:16 PM
Also, why am I not hearing libertarians horrified at the choice for the head of the CIA?
Why aren't the liberals really pissed about this (https://theintercept.com/2016/11/18/obama-refuses-to-pardon-edward-snowden-trumps-new-cia-pick-wants-him-dead/)?

Mantra
11-21-2016, 11:13 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/us/many-in-milwaukee-neighborhood-didnt-vote-and-dont-regret-it.html
Yeah, I like this article, and I strongly relate to their perspectives.

At the same time, as critical as I am of the Dems, placing all the blame on them isn't very fair or accurate. Obama recently talked about how our obstructionist Republican congress stopped him from being able to do more to help the very disillusioned people who voted for Trump. Which is a pretty fair point. Obama can't just do anything he wants. He has to work with congress, and our congress happens to be filled with a bunch of Republican dicks. Which is why I really wish people would start getting more fired up about their Senate and House elections, not to mention their local government. I mean, these dudes in Milwaukee are living under Scott Walker, a fucking idiot who has spent his entire career shitting on the Wisconsin economy. All his orthodox Republican economics have resulted in a consistently shitty standard of living (their job growth was 44th in the whole country last year). Here in Minnesota, we've had a decent number of people who have decided to relocate from Wisconsin to here because it's nearby and, while it's certainly not perfect, it's got a much stronger economy and a better shot at living a decent middle class life than in Wisconsin. So I wish people who are unhappy with their economic conditions would start thinking more about who's in charge locally.

Still, I agree with the general thrust of your post. Dems definitely need to recreate themselves and start doing a better job of making ordinary people their number one priority and communicating that clearly. This is why Bernie was a breath of fresh air, and it's why the correct next move for the Dems is to do something bold and different that inspires people.

allegro
11-21-2016, 11:28 PM
Walker was only elected as Governor in Wisconsin in 2010. Nearly all of his plans have failed and he's broken nearly all of his promises, but he won his re-election in 2014 because (a) he promised if the voters gave him another 4 years he could finish what he started (LOL right) and (b) his Democrat competition was for shit, and Walker won by 6% of the vote. Wisconsin depended a LOT on the auto industry, most of which has pulled out of the state so the economy has taken the shitter. Downtown Kenosha is a ghost town. Racine ain't much better. Milwaukee's crime rate is through the roof and there is a lot of poverty and civil unrest (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/milwaukee-police-protesters-clash-fatal-shooting-article-1.2750208). But Walker raised business taxes which doesn't make the state business-friendly, he increased pension taxes so retirees are leaving or have left in droves, and it's now a right-to-work state which made it even less business-friendly to union companies. But, voters keep electing PAUL RYAN. Because they've always been Republicans, it's like genetic or something. And that fucking voter ID law is clearly discriminative. And you have big guns like Diane Hendricks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Hendricks) behind Ryan and Walker.

Illinois is directly south of Wisconsin (Chicago's Metra Union North Pacific line goes to Kenosha) and you don't see Wisconsites moving HERE; we're mostly Democrats, we're a liberal pro-labor union state.