2016 Presidential Election

[allegro]

I made a bet with some guy who is a friend of a friend on this election. He "friends" me online.

hollllllleeeeeeeee shit... opening up Facebook right now is the most frustrating thing in the world. I might need a total media blackout.
Yeah, I pretty much had to do that, too.

I'm currently overdosing on Netflix stuff so I won't have to watch commercials, and I'm reading books and watching cooking shows on the Food Network. Anything I can to stay away from the Election.

Although, I *did* watch "Meet the Press" this morning, as always.

I can't believe how many fucking stupid people there are out there. I mean, REALLY stupid people. With minds that are hermetically sealed shut so there's no use even talking with them.

[Exocet]

I want Clinton to Win....however...i think its shitty a country of 325 Million can only choose these two candidates... this is a real wake up call to whats going on....my god...how corrupt is the DNC...

It makes me sick all this money controling democracies...

everyone knows Clinton is a puppet to wall street.

She is a such a weak candidate..

[Harry Seaward]

What will everybody here be watching Tuesday afternoon/night? I was going to have some friends over and some drinks and throw something on the ol' Chromecast, so it would preferably be a livestream. I haven't had cable/satellite in years.

My first thought was comedy to my brain shot to Fox News, I really want to see Gingrich/Kelly/Hannity/O'Reilly/McConnell/whatever talking heads they have on sink deeper and deeper into fear and anxiety and regret. But then I thought there might actually be some real comedy going on. I believe Colbert is doing a live event on Showtime (?) which might be pretty cool. I thought maybe something just boring like TYT or PBS or whatever, but that will probably be too dry.

So, what should I watch with my friends over some cocktails on Tuesday? Ideally something on the funnier side, but still taking it seriously. Ideas??

[Sutekh]

lol. DNC making fake craigslist job posts to make Trump look bad. The "will he sue us?" convo is funny.
https://wikileaks.org/dnc-emails/emailid/25661

Wow those people have no creep whatsoever... every email from their personal accounts - and signed to boot! Back to spook school...

[Harry Seaward]

Wow those people have no creep whatsoever... every email from their personal accounts - and signed to boot! Back to spook school...

??

These are emails sent to their colleagues in private. It's not like they knew in in advance 6 months ago that the emails were going to be published publicly on the internet. Why would they use throwaway accounts or fake names for normal work related emails discussing completely above board stuff...? O_o

That conversation is hilarious though. Well, I should say the idea of them posting those Craigslist posts as a form of anti-Trump advertising is hilarious. When I first saw DigitalChaos comment talking about "fake Craigslist job posts to make Trump look bad," his sinister sounding phrasing made me expect much worse. There are just obvious comedic parodies using Trump's own words and actions against him.

Is this supposed to be controversial or a bad thing or something?

[botley]

Omg so corrupt!!! JAIL HER FOR 30,000 COUNTS OF GRAND EMAILS

[Sutekh]

??

These are emails sent to their colleagues in private. It's not like they knew in in advance 6 months ago that the emails were going to be published publicly on the internet. Why would they use throwaway accounts or fake names for normal work related emails discussing completely above board stuff...? O_o

That conversation is hilarious though. Well, I should say the idea of them posting those Craigslist posts as a form of anti-Trump advertising is hilarious. When I first saw @DigitalChaos (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=598) comment talking about "fake Craigslist job posts to make Trump look bad," his sinister sounding phrasing made me expect much worse. There are just obvious comedic parodies using Trump's own words and actions against him.

Is this supposed to be controversial or a bad thing or something?


Lol, remind me not to hire you for a dirty tricks campaign!

If you do anything shifty and have to send written communiques, you should always operate on the assumption that one day - via compromise, investigation or eventual declassification - it will be made public. That way you can always deny - if the connection is ever made between the messages and you to begin with.

Secrets are just facts that are spread one person at a time

[cashpiles (closed)]

Secrets are just facts that are spread one person at a time

Actually, secrets are pieces of information you control access to, and a secret can be spread by more than one person at a time after the secret is shared for the first time.

[implanted_microchip]

Everybody with some sense knows the best email of all is John Podesta's risotto recipe and it's all been downhill from there, truly sinister stuff

[bobbie solo]

What will everybody here be watching Tuesday afternoon/night? I was going to have some friends over and some drinks and throw something on the ol' Chromecast, so it would preferably be a livestream. I haven't had cable/satellite in years.

My first thought was comedy to my brain shot to Fox News, I really want to see Gingrich/Kelly/Hannity/O'Reilly/McConnell/whatever talking heads they have on sink deeper and deeper into fear and anxiety and regret. But then I thought there might actually be some real comedy going on. I believe Colbert is doing a live event on Showtime (?) which might be pretty cool. I thought maybe something just boring like TYT or PBS or whatever, but that will probably be too dry.

So, what should I watch with my friends over some cocktails on Tuesday? Ideally something on the funnier side, but still taking it seriously. Ideas??

I'll be streaming the Young Turks (TYT) coverage all day & night on youtube. They have a few reporters in the field and their entire cast of characters (Brian Unger too) will be in studio. Starts at 1pm EST. The reactions will be much more like real people and informative, and not the buttoned up BS you'll see on CNN/MSNBC. Less commercials too.

[Deepvoid]

I know polls are just polls or as Sarah Palin would say "polls are for strippers and cross-country skiers" (true quote) but still, this may be a breather for Democrats.

Clinton has double digit lead in N.H. (http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/304631-poll-clinton-has-double-digit-lead-in-new-hampshire)

[onthewall2983]

I am way more calm than I thought I would be today. Maybe I'm just exhausted from it all. I was totally planning on drinking tomorrow, something which I never do. But my throat is feeling shitty right now so coating it with alcohol might not be the best answer for me.

[ziltoid]

If you can get your hands on some, try some mead, microwave it a bit, and drink it warm. It won't cure whatever ails you but, it may help to kill some of the bacteria in your throat and ease some tension.

I'm going to vote early in the morning and then go to class. Afterwards I'll go home and probably try that live stream that was mentioned a few posts above while drinking some beers (Fat Tire) or something else.

[Deepvoid]

This is my prediction:
http://www.270towin.com/maps/EXp89

Share yours.

[Sutekh]

Actually, secrets are pieces of information you control access to, and a secret can be spread by more than one person at a time after the secret is shared for the first time.

It's a poetic way of saying don't expect a secret to be kept, rather than an actual account of dynamics ;)

[neorev]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sbT3_9dJY4

[neorev]

62% of Voters Say Election Has Made Them Feel Less Proud of America
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/62-voters-say-election-has-made-them-feel-less-proud-n678741

[Jinsai]

I can't believe how many fucking stupid people there are out there. I mean, REALLY stupid people. With minds that are hermetically sealed shut so there's no use even talking with them.

I'm always saying stuff like this, but up until recently I didn't know this kind of idiotic person was truly possible. He's like a rabid cartoon version of the stereotypical Trump supporter.

[Jinsai]

62% of Voters Say Election Has Made Them Feel Less Proud of America
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/first-read/62-voters-say-election-has-made-them-feel-less-proud-n678741

In other news, 38% of people are liars.

[tony.parente]

In other news, 38% of people are liars.

Those 38% are the ones that actually LIKE and support Trump or Clinton, not the ones voting to prevent the other.

[Deepvoid]

Aphex Twin posted a video about the election.
https://www.facebook.com/aphextwinafx/videos/10154165955314952/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

[telee.kom]

I was thinking who would I vote for, and I just can't get over the fact how DNC rigged the campaign against Senders. Screw the emails, this is not how a party with the word democratic in its name should behave. They should be punished for this clearly corrupt behavior, not awarded with a president.

[allegate]

That's (clearly) bullshit.

[neorev]

I'm voting for Jill Stein. Her stances are the closest to mine. She's close to Bernie's stances but goes a step further on many aspects. I even recently took this pretty in depth questionnaire that broke down the candidates on their different policies and how well you match up. I got 98% for Jill Stein.

I'm a Democrat and have voted Democrat in every single election, not just Presidential, since I was able to vote and this will be the first year that I will not vote Democrat. The media tries to bash her and make her out to look like a kook by spreading lies and disinformation. But I'm voting Green this time. And I am also disgusted and sickened by the behavior of my party throughout the primaries. If the primaries were actually fair... not rigged... I believe Bernie would have won and he would have DESTROYED Trump... just annihilated him. I also blame the DNC for Trump being in the position that he is in at the moment.

If there's anything that I learned from this election is that both sides will follow their candidates blindly and THAT is dangerous.

[Jinsai]

I was thinking who would I vote for, and I just can't get over the fact how DNC rigged the campaign against Senders. Screw the emails, this is not how a party with the word democratic in its name should behave. They should be punished for this clearly corrupt behavior, not awarded with a president.

and meanwhile, back down here in the real world (where presidents have power and the decision to elect them matters more than petty short-sighted personal grievances because it will ultimately grant that person a pivotal role that impacts the course of history) I choose to stow my idealistic leanings for a minute, and just hope we don't blow the world up.

Your mileage may vary.

[Sutekh]

Ok time for some real talk... when trumps Brownshirts are rounding up muslims and bigots emboldened by his victory start attacking people and burning stuff down, you can look at trumps 1% margin of victory and Jill steins 3% of the vote and give yourself a pat on the back for doing the right thing, even though in reality you enabled a fascist populist rather than man up and just vote for Hilary

No seriously. In that scenario, tell me how you would not be more to blame than the 40-50% who voted trump? You WILL be in the demographic that tipped the balance and enabled him

The hideous irony of you voting JS to do the non evil thing is lost on you?

I'm sorry to be rude but we have just had brexit in the uk and it won by a 4% ish margin... much of the hard left in our country pushed for brexit as it saw it as a way to slap a neoliberal corporate hegemony in the face, same as people seem to feel about Hilary

Well we've had murders, shops burned down, beatings blackmail harassment... these people who complain about modernity and political correctness are ultimately pussies who are authoritarian in nature and NEED the approval of the herd - this is ironically why PC annoys them so much (being told their opinions suck) and given the first sign of approval they will come out of the woodwork

Don't make the mistake we did... you will not be able to fight corporatism half as well when a diet fascist is in power. Get this hurdle out of the way and use the next four-five years to organise

I am so deadly serious, your country will go insane in a matter of days and it won't be a backlash against PC snowflakes on facebook, it will be violence on the streets

[liquidcalm]

.. also in the UK Trump does mean fart, so by electing President Fart, we'll all giggle at you.
but seriously, the swing to the right in this country is just tragic, moronic even, so seeing the US election in this way is not overly pleasing...

[telee.kom]

I'm so sick of people who try to shame others into voting for Clinton

[neorev]

Yes, because my one little vote will decide the entire election. If little ol' me doesn't go and vote for Hillary tomorrow, she's going to lose the entire election because of it. I love the fear mongering. People believe there's an actually choice here? The winner has already been decided no matter who I vote for. Take that crap elsewhere. I vote for who I want to vote for. Not because idiots want to fear monger and shame me into voting for their candidate. If Hillary wins or loses, it's not because I went and voted for Jill Stein. You want to vote for Hillary, go ahead, like you have some knowledge the rest of us haven't heard over and over. Don't try to act like you're above me. This election proves Stockholm Syndrome is a real thing. Real talk.

[Sutekh]

No, most polls indicate that the race is very very close... if you live in a battleground/swingstate then your vote very much counts (fair play if you don't)

You may be sick of being shamed but I am sick of the diffusion amongst the liberal left enabling things like Brexit, trump, le pen, AFD... we are squabbling about our differences whilst the right unites. Please don't let my asshole blustering distract you from the very real danger that is waiting in the wings - the return of the far right to the despatch box

Once they are in, you are FUCKED. It will be a million years before any Stein like changes happen because not only will the culture war swing rightward, but the right will dismantle and change the system and the media to make your return even harder

[neorev]

I love how Politco has overviews for every candidate in the Presidential election, but Jill Stein...
http://www.politico.com/2016-election/results/map/president

In case you haven't noticed, the media is already corrupt and in control of the election. This is nothing new. We've been facing these things for decades.

You're too late, this is our media...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOS2o1gTvHE

[Harry Seaward]

Jill Stein is a whack job.

[Demogorgon]

Jill Stein is a whack job.

So is everyone else on the ballot. I'd pick Vermin Supreme over any of the rest of them.

[neorev]

Jill Stein is a whack job.

Another that has fallen for the establishment's propaganda to rid anyone that is actually for the American people. No wonder we are where we are. Let me guess it has something to do with the lies being spread that she's anti-vaccine. Or some other made up story about her.

http://www.jill2016.com/hatersgonnahate

[theruiner]

Not because idiots want to fear monger and shame me into voting for their candidate. If Hillary wins or loses, it's not because I went and voted for Jill Stein. You want to vote for Hillary, go ahead, like you have some knowledge the rest of us haven't heard over and over. Don't try to act like you're above me. This election proves Stockholm Syndrome is a real thing. Real talk.As a trans person and a lesbian I don't have the luxury of voting for anyone else but Clinton. It must be nice to not have to worry about that.

[neorev]

As a trans person and a lesbian I don't have the luxury of voting for anyone else but Clinton. It must be nice to not have to worry about that.

I'm just curious, in your eyes, does voting for Jill Stein mean that I do not support trans people? Because that is the complete opposite of how I feel. I support LGBTQ and I'm pretty sure Jill Stein in pretty pro-LGBTQ as well.

[theruiner]

I don't doubt that you do. I wouldn't say you're not an ally by voting for Stein, but there are VERY concrete and serious repercussions if Trump gets in. This could seriously affect my future and the future of people I care about. So while I understand voting your conscience, and can't fault you too much for it, I do think it's counterproductive to actually helping trans people.

[neorev]

Well Bill Clinton encouraged Trump to run, the DNC pushed Trump and the other crazy candidates to the forefront and helped increase their popularity, the DNC sabotaged Bernie Sanders run and rigged the election against him who was the one guy that polls show constantly destroyed Trump, and the whole time the DNC was colluding with the media to make this all happen. I feel the DNC and media hold a bigger responsibility to our current predicament. This election was a well organized farce and they're doing a great job at dividing people. As far as I can see, the DNC and media have been counterproductive to actually helping trans people. Jeez, Hillary didn't even give a crap about gays or lesbians until it was in her best interest.

[neorev]

http://www.270towin.com/

[marodi]

Yes, because my one little vote will decide the entire election.

My dear American friends, you could learn a thing or two about the Orange Crush of the 2011 Canadian federal election (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_federal_election,_2011#Opinion_polls).

Because this is what happens when many, many people who believe their little vote won't matter go and vote anyway.

[neorev]

My dear American friends, you could learn a thing or two about the Orange Crush of the 2011 Canadian federal election (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_federal_election,_2011#Opinion_polls).

Because this is what happens when many, many people who believe their little vote won't matter go and vote anyway.

But you failed to mention that Canada does not have an Electoral College. That and swing states changes things a bit when it comes to individual votes. Different systems. Which is better, that is up for debate.

[theruiner]

Such as? People always say this, but POTUS has limited power in this area.

Every year we hear about how "the other candidate" is the worst we have ever seen, almost actual Hitler, and we can't let them win. Shits ridiculous.

Off the top of my head? No federal protections for trans people, discrimination against LGBT people being legalized, possibly bathroom bullshit down the line. If he has enough Republicans in he house and senate I can absolutely see him making progress on those. I don't even want to take the chance. This is my life, not some hypothetical empty debate for me.

Not to mention destroying the progress we've made in having insurance companies cover transgender care. And the supreme court is a big one, too.

[theruiner]

Right. And if he proposes stuff and congress has enough Republicans to push it through? He's already gone on record saying he wants to fuck over LGBT people (even if he was careful not to use those words, obviously). I get what you're saying, but I think it's too dangerous to take chances with.

[hellospaceboy]

As a trans person and a lesbian I don't have the luxury of voting for anyone else but Clinton. It must be nice to not have to worry about that.

And sadly it's not even Trump we have to worry about, but Pence! Trump already said that he'll leave the majority of the day-to-day real work up to his VP, and he is a clear danger to LGBTQ rights.

[sick among the pure]

Well, I'm getting up at 4am to go cover election day (want to get to the biggest polling place in my city before the workers get there at 5am to start setting up so I can get some shots of that and maybe a few snippets I can use for tagline info) and will probably be spending a good portion of all day going to various polling locations covering this catastrophic failure of an election cycle. Any suggestions for how to stay sane? I already plan on bringing my iPod pre-loaded with some Year Zero to listen to while traveling between locations.

Edit: and yes, as a trans person, the possibility of Trump/Pence being elected is AN ACTUAL DANGER TO OUR LIVES. I'm not going to sugar coat it, if you live in a state where Clinton isn't 100% set to win and you vote for anyone other than her, you can not say with a clear conscience that you did everything you could to help keep us safe. I hate Hillary, I have made that abundantly clear in this thread multiple times. But when it comes down to who CAN ACTUALLY BE ELECTED THIS YEAR, she is the best chance for things to not go HORRIBLY WRONG for the LGBT community, minorities, women, etc. While "the president doesn't have that much power" to get things done, that's still one part of the equation stacked against us. But beyond actual legal powers, the president is a symbol of what can be seen as acceptable in our society. If the president and VP are for gay conversion camps and against healthcare for trans people and say things that those who physically attack us say, that's a huge blow to the momentum we have been working so hard to achieve. Hillary may be pandering to get votes, she may have been for DOMA and against the LGBT community in the past, but she doesn't actively degrade us and seek to fight against us.

If the choice is between standing still or moving backwards, I would rather stand still for 4 years.

[Harry Seaward]

I'm just curious, in your eyes, does voting for Jill Stein Donald Trump mean that I do not support trans people?

FTFY. Yes, it does.


Such as? People always say this, but POTUS has limited power in this area.

Every year we hear about how "the other candidate" is the worst we have ever seen, almost actual Hitler, and we can't let them win. Shits ridiculous.

Electing Donald Trump will have a more profound effect than the litany of legal and policy setbacks we will have, which I won't go into but it's easy enough to imagine how a President can actively make life harder for minorities or LGTBQ folks. Electing Donald Trump will tell Americans that it's acceptable to be an open bigot. It will tell people that Americans believe that homophobia, racism, and sexism are not only acceptable, but that they represent this country. It will tell people that one day, if you strive hard enough to be disgusting hateful discriminatory person, you might even get to be President.

Look back at all the anti-Muslim hate and rhetoric we had under Bush, or all the anti-progressive policies enacted all over the country. Compare that to the progress we've made in the last 8 years culturally.

The President has a stronger effect on the country than just what's written into the Constitution.

[Jinsai]

can we please stop referring to the statement "for the love of god, stop being an idealist and realize what your choice actually IS!" as some form of bullying? It's a fact! You have a choice. Candidate A, B, and neither. If you choose neither, you're doing the opposite of framing a form of protest: you're relinquishing your input as a numerical drop in the bucket. Nobody is going to look at your ballot and say "wow, what a brave and intrepid soul! He voted for Gary Johnson!"

[allegro]

this BULLSHIT that the DNC "rigged the VOTE against Sanders" is just that: BULLSHIT

RIGGED would mean that somehow the DNC RIGGED VOTES, meaning COMMITTED FRAUD AND CHANGED VOTES. AND THAT IS FUCKING BULLSHIT.

Look, NO CANDIDATE, ANYWHERE, can make people vote for them. They can spend billions of dollars, but it doesn't insure any votes; tricky media bullshit, campaign plans, all of that shit has been in place for over TWO HUNDRED FUCKING YEARS but it doesn't make people change their vote.

As has been mentioned in here ad nauseum: Former House Speaker Eric Cantor spent nearly $3 million dollars on his campaign, but he lost to unknown David Brat who only spent around $225,000 on his campaign. Money doesn't buy votes. Neither did Cantor's influence, power, Republican backing, etc.

When American voters get into that voting booth, IT'S SECRET. NOBODY knows what they are doing. It's the ONE time we can do WHATEVER we want, and NOBODY knows it.

In the 2016 Democratic Presidential Primary, Hilary Clinton got 16,914,722 votes. Bernie Sanders got 13,206,428 votes. THAT'S A FUCKING LOT. A LOT. HE BEAT OUT 3 OTHER PRIMARY CANDIDATES TO END UP BEING IN THE FINAL TWO. HE RAISED OVER $200 MILLION DOLLARS. AND GOT 13,206,428 VOTES.

Here is the reality: More people chose to vote for Hillary Clinton than for Bernie Sanders. Period.

I like Bernie. I do. I really do. He's honest, he works hard, he's a decent human being. But his losing doesn't mean a conspiracy MADE people vote against him. If that were true, he wouldn't have gotten THAT MANY FUCKING VOTES.

[neorev]

FTFY. Yes, it does.

That's just such a low thing to say. The DNC caused this. Take some responsibility. If you think me voting Jill Stein means I don't support trans people, go f*ck yourself. Get off your high horse. End of story.

[Jinsai]

That's just such a low thing to say. The DNC caused this. Take some responsibility. If you think me voting Jill Stein means I don't support trans people, go f*ck yourself. Get off your high horse. End of story.

Voting for Jill Stein means, effectively, casting your vote in a direction that does not oppose the candidate who might take power who panders to people who are worried about trans people using their public bathrooms. In turn, you are casting your vote for a candidate who CANNOT win. You aren't supporting Trump, but you aren't fighting him.

[neorev]

this BULLSHIT that the DNC "rigged the VOTE against Sanders" is just that: BULLSHIT

RIGGED would mean that somehow the DNC RIGGED VOTES, meaning COMMITTED FRAUD AND CHANGED VOTES. AND THAT IS FUCKING BULLSHIT.


They did do that though. People have come out who witnessed it. Check out the Chicago Board of Elections meeting, it's on video. They were literally swapping votes and getting rid of Bernie's votes. Also, California is a big red flag. If you weren't following it closely, then you have no clue what went down. There are HUGE discrepancies, especially in Cali. Hell, they just disqualified a huge chunk of votes for no reason given. Most of them mail in ballots who would have most likely gone to Bernie.

[Jinsai]

look, my politics most closely align with Bernie Sanders. I wish I could vote for him. I can't.

However, I'm taking his advice and voting for Clinton.

[allegro]

Off the top of my head? No federal protections for trans people
He said he would do this: http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2016/09/donald-trump-pledges-sign-anti-lgbtq-first-amendment-defense-act/

[allegro]

They did do that though. People have come out who witnessed it. Check out the Chicago Board of Elections meeting, it's on video. They were literally swapping votes and getting rid of Bernie's votes. Also, California is a big red flag. If you weren't following it closely, then you have no clue what went down. There are HUGE discrepancies, especially in Cali. Hell, they just disqualified a huge chunk of votes for no reason given. Most of them mail in ballots who would have most likely gone to Bernie.
AND HE STILL WOULD HAVE LOST

I've seen that Chicago thing, TWENTY ONE VOTES THAT WERE CAUGHT AND REVERSED BY AN AUDIT? AUDITS THAT HAPPEN ALL THE TIME?? AUDITS THAT STOP THIS FROM GOING THROUGH? Yeah, those audits. Look, we can't 100% stop MORONS, there could be Bernie people doing the same fucking thing and they were stopped by the same audits, that's what audits are for. This isn't a conspiracy, this is just how stupid people are when they get all fucking gung-ho over their own candidate (or, they're just plain old fucking stupid, which describes the Chicago Election Board employees; my DOG is smarter). I told you, already, that an ELECTION JUDGE tried to sway my mother into voting for TRUMP which is ILLEGAL but this broad didn't do it intentionally, she was just STUPID. We have checks and balances in the system to prevent this. But thinking this equals nearly FOUR MILLION VOTES and is a coordinated conspiracy involving the CEB is CRAP, the CEB has always employed people with double-digit IQs. And Bernie had already lost by Cali, it would not have mattered.

It's like the GOP saying that millions of Negros are voting 10 times for Democrats, fraudulently voting, getting in line and voting over and over and over. No, that's not fucking happening. It's bullshit. And millions of dead people still on voter rolls is because, well, they're not removed and they ain't gonna vote because THEY'RE FUCKING DEAD. But Republicans are claiming that dead people are voting, it's not fair.

Look, it's MORE than obvious that a lot of our voting processes in this country need to be changed, but I'm not worrying about this petty shit like "oh no Bernie vs. Clinton," I'm worried more about why black people in states in the South were served Subpoenas and forced to appear to show cause as to whether or not they were ELIGIBLE to vote (INTIMIDATION), or why their voting precincts in their areas were cut down to ONE and then their voting days were greatly decreased, making it fucking IMPOSSIBLE for them to vote, or making them show up with 3 pieces of ID, and filling out forms at the precinct, etc.

[theruiner]

allegro- That's exactly what I was referring to (thank you for sharing the link!) He's already made it perfectly clear where he stands on us. Hell, he made that perfectly clear when he chose Pence as his running mate.

[neorev]

allegro
The California Primary Voting Total Anomoly

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk231/NEOREVMusic/d8df1e2f-788d-4b34-bd04-af131377457e.jpg

According to the official California .gov site, on June 30th they counted 8.28 million ballots in the Democratic primary with another 350,000 still unprocessed. That's a lot of ballots, folks!

And here are the final results on July 26th, something seem off?

Update: from New York Times
http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk231/NEOREVMusic/caliprimary.png

Hillary - 2,713,259 vs Berne - 2,326,030
Do the math, folks. That certainly does not add up to the official 8.28 million ballots counted as of June 30th plus the other 350,000 unprocessed ones. That's like 3 million ballots missing from Cali's total.

Nothing strange here, folks.

[allegro]

everyone knows Clinton is a puppet to wall street.

Welcome to American Politics. (http://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/2014/08/14/wall-streets-money-is-flooding-congress)

Trump is involved with Wall Street, too. (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/06/meet-the-wall-street-titans-who-back-trump.html)

Trump has a building there.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Building)

[allegro]

Do the math, folks. That certainly does not add up to the official 8.28 million ballots counted as of June 30th plus the other 350,000 unprocessed ones. That's like 5 million ballots missing from Cali's total.

Nothing strange here, folks.

But Clinton already had enough electoral votes to win before California. And if Bernie won California, he still wouldn't have enough electoral votes to win. So by that point, California didn't matter. I don't think you can use the AP site info, though; it just means that the AP hasn't been apprised of the final counts, you'd have to go to the CA election board site.

[sick among the pure]

.

I am a huge bernie supporter. I worked hard to help his campaign. I voted for him and got a lot of people who wouldn't have voted at all go out and vote for him as well. He was literally my dream candidate in terms of policy and personality. I wish like nothing else that we could have him on the ballot tomorrow.

And as much as I loved Bernie as a candidate, I hate Hillary.

But again, being someone who may be directly impacted by a Trump/Pence victory, some "protest vote" for a candidate who will not win this election is nothing short of being neutral in the face of physical danger against multiple groups of minorities in this country.
No, you are not voting for Trump. But you're not fighting him either. Because you're mad that Hillary was improperly handed the DNC nomination.

[Harry Seaward]

According to the official California .gov site, on June 30th they counted 8.28 million ballots in the Democratic primary with another 350,000 still unprocessed. That's a lot of ballots, folks!

The screenshot says nothing about "Democratic Primary" it just says primary. Factoring the Republican and Democratic ballots totalled, it comes a lot closer (7,400,644.) Maybe that's where part of the source of confusion comes from?

I don't really have the information to make any sort of judgment here, I don't even know if that CA SOS screenshot is real tbh.

[neorev]

But Clinton already had enough electoral votes to win before California. And if Bernie won California, he still wouldn't have enough electoral votes to win. So by that point, California didn't matter. I don't think you can use the AP site info, though; it just means that the AP hasn't been apprised of the final counts, you'd have to go to the CA election board site.

No, she did not. Hillary only crossed the threshold during the Democratic Convention. Even with California, Hillary did not surpass the amount needed to win it. Hence why we had a Democratic Convention. It was only when Superdelegates, who are able to cast their vote in any direction, voted AT the Convention when Hillary officially won.

On top of that, news agencies mistakenly announced her the winner the night before the California primary. Another move done purposely by the media to subvert Bernie's run. A Bernie win in California would have been huge and just enough to possibly sway more Superdelegates. There's enough votes missing from California where Bernie could have won. Again, many of the ballots that were rejected were mail in ballots, which were mainly those sided with Bernie.

But I'm sorry, Hillary DID NOT have enough votes to win. She didn't have it before California and she did not have it after she "won' California. If she did, we wouldn't have had a Democratic Convention.

[neorev]

@allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76)

I updated my post with the NY Times official tally instead of AP. NY Times had the final votes in September and 3 million votes are STILL MISSING

[allegro]

No, she did not. Hillary only crossed the threshold during the Democratic Convention. Even with California, Hillary did not surpass the amount needed to win it. Hence why we had a Democratic Convention. It was only when Superdelegates, who are able to cast their vote in any direction, voted AT the Convention when Hillary officially won.

On top of that, news agencies mistakenly announced her the winner the night before the California primary. Another move done purposely by the media to subvert Bernie's run. A Bernie win in California would have been huge and just enough to possibly sway more Superdelegates. There's enough votes missing from California where Bernie could have won. Again, many of the ballots that were rejected were mail in ballots, which were mainly those sided with Bernie.

But I'm sorry, Hillary DID NOT have enough votes to win. She didn't have it before California and she did not have it after she "won' California. If she did, we wouldn't have had a Democratic Convention.

You are mistaken. Bernie was incorrect; no Superdelegates have ever NOT voted for the candidate with the most votes. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36466228)

He's not a Democrat but, really, that's how it always worked; they're the very Superdelegates he wanted to get rid of, the same Superdelegates who voted for Obama in 2008 when the popular vote was like this:

Obama: 17,535,458 48.1%
Clinton: 17,493,836 48.0%

Anyway.

The final certified California info is here: http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/prior-elections/statewide-election-results/presidential-primary-election-june-7-2016/statement-vote/#ssov

See this: http://elections.cdn.sos.ca.gov/sov/2016-primary/13-sov-summary.pdf

[Mantra]

You may be sick of being shamed but I am sick of the diffusion amongst the liberal left enabling things like Brexit, trump, le pen, AFD... we are squabbling about our differences whilst the right unites. Please don't let my asshole blustering distract you from the very real danger that is waiting in the wings - the return of the far right to the despatch box

The growth of far right politics in the mainstream is a reaction to the continual rightward shift of our dominant liberal parties. There isn't a political scholar in the world who would disagree that the Democrats have gradually been shifting to the right, steadily encroaching on what used to be the home turf of conservatives, especially in the realms of economics and foreign policy, but also in other areas. As a consequence, the right has been forced to redefine themselves. Your claim that they are"united" isn't really true at all. They are in the midst of a political identity crisis (i.e., it wasn't too long ago that the Republicans were openly conspiring to somehow get Trump kicked off the ticket). Rightwingers have differing ideas about the best way to rebrand themselves, and one of those approaches has simply been to become even more extreme than before. But none of this would have developed if liberals hadn't decided to encroach on conservative territory in the first place. So as far as I'm concerned, all the watered down "centrist" Democrats are just as much to blame for the growth of the extreme eight. The two ideologies are connected to each other in that one leads to the next.

And the whole reason any of that shit continues to go on is because the Democrats know that they can get away with it (speaking of "enablers"). Their permanent status as the lesser evil grants them immunity from any kind of consequence. Despite the claims of "pragmatism," I've never seen a single person who supports the whole "lesser of two evils" path offer a realistic way out of this gridlocked situation. Their whole approach only leads to more of the same, a continued shift to the right.

PS: Neorev lives in New York, where there is literally zero chance whatsoever of Trump winning, with or without the Stein voters going to Hillary, so honestly, who gives a shit.

[neorev]

PS: Neorev lives in New York, where there is literally zero chance whatsoever of Trump winning, with or without the Stein voters going to Hillary, so honestly, who gives a shit.

Thank you, Mantra, which was exactly what I was trying to say. I don't live in some swing state.

[ziltoid]

I can see where this is going.

Clearly Neorev's stance isn't going to change and he won't be swayed by whatever anyone says, so trying to convince him otherwise is futile. People have made it abundantly clear that they disagree with him.

To keep things copacetic please refrain from antagonizing him.

I like you neorev and everyone else that posts here, even though I may not agree with everything people say.
I'd hate to see this thread go into a shit-posting frenzy.
Please, we are adults, lets remain civil.

[Jinsai]

That's not his advice. That's Sanders campaigning for Clinton.

The advice Sanders gave to voters is "You shouldn't listen to me. You should make the decision yourself. It's on Hillary to convince people to accept her." Even his wife retweeted the video in which he said this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsDSAmXuIvU

This is semantics. He is endorsing Clinton. I'm understanding that as he is supporting her, and as such, I believe that since we hold to similar ideals, his support for her informs my decision.

You can reframe it as "I'm following his lead" if you prefer, though really, why are we splitting hairs here? The truth is really, I don't need Sanders to tell me who to vote for. It is strange to me to see Sanders supporters running away from what he thinks is the best direction for the country, but everyone's entitled to put on a Che Guevara t-shirt and join the fucking revolution... or whatever.

[neorev]

I agree @ziltoid (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=3131)
As I stated, if folks want to vote for Hillary, I'm certainly not going to try and stop them or persuade them otherwise or hold it against them. I can only vote for who someone I feel closely represents my own stances. On that front, I connect more with Jill Stein's policies than Hillary and that is why I will vote for her. It's not a protest vote. It's my vote. The environment/climate change, bloated war budget, multi-wars, Middle Class, debt, Wall Street abuses, etc. etc... these are important to me. I agree with a lot of Jill's stances. I do feel that a lot of hatred/dislike toward Jill are based on lies and false stories. We all know Hillary has her fair share of "stories" out there.

I've voted blue all of my life. Blue down the line. So this isn't some uneducated switch. This isn't some quick out of nowhere change of heart. It took a lot for me to get to this point and voting Green this time. I am a Progressive Democrat and I feel like I'm supporting the Progressive candidate. To each their own. The best part, in the end, I more than likely agree with most of the stances of these folks who are voting for Hillary believe in.

[allegro]

Mantra, I do not agree that the "centrist" right is what caused a Trump or the religious conservatives that have had Congress in a choke-hold for decades (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Majority). Dems haven't even been "centrist" for decades, they have shifted to the right of that and most political observers argue that Dems have shifted into "conservative" territory. Remember, TWO DEMOCRAT PRESIDENTS were against gay marriage, and one created "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," welfare reform, and Dems pretty much gave up funding for the EPA for decades.

And Trump is promising that he has our good in mind and will buck the "establishment," but he is BIG BUSINESS ESTABLISHMENT. He's part of the "handful of large corporations" at the top that he complains about. They're his biggest commercial clients!

I was going to vote for Jill Stein a few times in the past, but I didn't align with her on a few issues where I thought she was a little too radical for me (arrest warrant in N. Dakota), and I don't think she has enough foreign policy experience. But, I certainly understand why disenfranchised young people identify with her and her policies. If she gets 5% of the vote, that could be a very big thing for the Greens.

[Mantra]

So apparently Trump was in Minneapolis the other day talking shit about the Somali population here. Seeing it made me incredibly angry to an almost irrational degree. Like, honestly, who the fuck does this guy think he is, coming to our city and talking shit to all the people who ACTUALLY live here? He's not from here. I guarantee he knows fuck all about our city. It's not a "disaster." What the fuck is he even talking about? The Somali refugees have literally been here for DECADES, and they are just a normal part of our overall identity. This is just a basic part of the culture and ideology in this area. We're one of those places in the country that is known for being super open to refugees. That's why we have large populations of immigrants and refugees, especially Somali, Hmong, Karen, Ukraine, and a lot more. God he's such an gross, idiotic person. GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY CITY ASSHOLE.

[allegro]

So apparently Trump was in Minneapolis the other day talking shit about the Somali population here. Seeing it made me incredibly angry to an almost irrational degree. Like, honestly, who the fuck does this guy think he is, coming to our city and talking shit to all the people who ACTUALLY live here? He's not from here. I guarantee he knows fuck all about our city. It's not a "disaster." What the fuck is he even talking about? The Somali refugees have literally been here for DECADES, and they are just a normal part of our overall identity. This is just a basic part of the culture and ideology in this area. We're one of those places in the country that is known for being super open to refugees. That's why we have large populations of immigrants and refugees, especially Somali, Hmong, Karen, Ukraine, and a lot more. God he's such an gross, idiotic person. GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY CITY ASSHOLE.

Yeah, he's been shit-talking about Chicago a lot, too, and it's been pissing Chicago off a lot. (http://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/council-votes-to-remove-trump-plaza-designation/) He's called us a disaster, too. "If you happen to see Donald Trump, can you please pass him some Imodium? Because the guy just can’t seem to stop shitting on Chicago. (http://chicagoist.com/2016/09/27/trump_chicago.php)"

[neorev]

My support of the Green Party with this election is because I'm seeing a failure in the two party system and I believe we need more than just two parties in this day and age. I don't want more years of being in a stalemate. So if this election helps build support for the Green Party to make them a legitimate and viable party the next time around, that's a win in my book. We can't change the world in one election, but we can start on our way there. Hell, I'd love to see a four party system. I feel more would get done that way. With two parties, you're divided down the middle and we get this stagnation of policies where one party is trying to hold up the other party's policies. But if we had more than two party, then that third party may align more in a certain direction and help get things moving. I don't feel we can all be lumped into just two groups. If though each side has their own subdivisions, it's not enough. We need to expand away from a two party system. I imagine Democrats would benefit more than Republicans if it came to a viable third party like the Green Party. It would at least help with the more progressive policies getting through.

[Jinsai]

My support of the Green Party with this election is because I'm seeing a failure in the two party system and I believe we need more than just two parties in this day and age.

So let's work towards that after we don't blow up the world.

[neorev]

So let's work towards that after we don't blow up the world.

Hillary is already stoking the fires with Russia... so I think either candidate we choose will lead to war. I find the whole Russian angle of this election mess to be a complete farce. I learned my lesson with what Presidents and "Intelligence" agencies say with Iraq.

I'm anti-war a.k.a a pussy... and that's one thing I strongly dislike with both candidates.

[neorev]

And our government will do and say anything to try and make Wikileaks look bad and discredit them. Even pulling out from the McCarthy playbook. Ex: Russia
Like that somehow negates what is in the leaks.

[Mantra]

I'm looking at the poll closing times across the country, and holy shit, what is wrong with Kentucky and Illinois? 6 PM, seriously? That is some offensive bullshit right there.

http://www.270towin.com/imgs/closing_times.png

Even 7 pm is kinda shitty. It should just be 9 pm nationwide. There's not even a remotely defensible argument for closing polls at 6 pm, wtf.

[allegro]

I'm looking at the poll closing times across the country, and holy shit, what is wrong with Kentucky and Illinois? 6 PM, seriously?
To be fair, we in Illinois have had early voting since October 24th. The early voting precincts were open all last week until 7 pm and the week before that until 5 pm, and they were open two Saturdays and two Sundays.

See this (http://www.cookcountyclerk.com/elections/earlyvoting/pages/earlyvotinglocations.aspx), and this is just for Cook County, each county has TONS of locations.

G and I voted last Thursday and my Mom voted last Friday.

[Mantra]

To be fair, we in Illinois have had early voting since October 24th. The early voting precincts were open all last week until 7 pm and the week before that until 5 pm, and they were open two Saturdays.

G and I voted last Thursday and my Mom voted last Friday.

Mail-in started September 29th, and any voter can ask for a mail-in card.

Okay, but actually I'm a drunk idiot who glanced over the map too quickly. It's Indiana that closes at 6pm, not Illinois, lol.

[Harry Seaward]

The growth of far right politics in the mainstream is a reaction to the continual rightward shift of our dominant liberal parties. There isn't a political scholar in the world who would disagree that the Democrats have gradually been shifting to the right, steadily encroaching on what used to be the home turf of conservatives, especially in the realms of economics and foreign policy, but also in other areas. As a consequence, the right has been forced to redefine themselves. Your claim that they are"united" isn't really true at all. They are in the midst of a political identity crisis (i.e., it wasn't too long ago that the Republicans were openly conspiring to somehow get Trump kicked off the ticket). Rightwingers have differing ideas about the best way to rebrand themselves, and one of those approaches has simply been to become even more extreme than before. But none of this would have developed if liberals hadn't decided to encroach on conservative territory in the first place. So as far as I'm concerned, all the watered down "centrist" Democrats are just as much to blame for the growth of the extreme eight. The two ideologies are connected to each other in that one leads to the next.

And the whole reason any of that shit continues to go on is because the Democrats know that they can get away with it (speaking of "enablers"). Their permanent status as the lesser evil grants them immunity from any kind of consequence. Despite the claims of "pragmatism," I've never seen a single person who supports the whole "lesser of two evils" path offer a realistic way out of this gridlocked situation. Their whole approach only leads to more of the same, a continued shift to the right.

PS: Neorev lives in New York, where there is literally zero chance whatsoever of Trump winning, with or without the Stein voters going to Hillary, so honestly, who gives a shit.


Mantra, I do not agree that the "centrist" right is what caused a Trump or the religious conservatives that have had Congress in a choke-hold for decades (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Majority). Dems haven't even been "centrist" for decades, they have shifted to the right of that and most political observers argue that Dems have shifted into "conservative" territory. Remember, TWO DEMOCRAT PRESIDENTS were against gay marriage, and one created "Don't Ask, Don't Tell," welfare reform, and Dems pretty much gave up funding for the EPA for decades.

And Trump is promising that he has our good in mind and will buck the "establishment," but he is BIG BUSINESS ESTABLISHMENT. He's part of the "handful of large corporations" at the top that he complains about. They're his biggest commercial clients!

I was going to vote for Jill Stein a few times in the past, but I didn't align with her on a few issues where I thought she was a little too radical for me (arrest warrant in N. Dakota), and I don't think she has enough foreign policy experience. But, I certainly understand why disenfranchised young people identify with her and her policies. If she gets 5% of the vote, that could be a very big thing for the Greens.

Inching to the right alone doesn't create something like Trump.

I'm of the mind that Trump is a direct byproduct of Obama's election. When Obama was elected, people went absolutely fucking nuts. It was obviously because he's black and that alone is a direct insult to the integrity of a large percentage of the country, they view a black President as an attack on their nation and everything it stands for. There was absolutely nothing else radical about Obama that warranted the outrageous amount of insanity and vitriol that followed. The (relatively well deserved) hate Bush got was, well uh, bush league compared to how fucking batshit insane people went over Obama.

So you have the nonstop cries of 'fascist' and 'communist' and 'Muslim' by the right, which Fox News immediately decided to commercialize on using their "opinion shows" and mouthpieces like Glenn Beck (who, ironically, just came out today speaking in support of Obama and how wrong he realizes he was and how awful Trump would be as POTUS.) So Fox News commercialized on this indescribable amount of hate and fed into it all. day. long, every single day. They attacked from the top while the Koch Brothers and Company took it on from the bottom, astroturfing the Tea Party into existence, which placed walking personifications of this vitriol and ultra far right rhetoric and no-exception obstructionism into Congress.

So now the majority of the right has to play into this behavior because it's what their base wants. They can't possibly show Obama any mercy or work with him in any situation, any context, no matter the stakes, ever. Period. If it takes shutting down the government to stick it to Obongo, then so be it. Which is justified of course, because as you know he's literally trying to destroy America from the inside. He's going to enact Martial Law which will enable him to outlaw all Christian churches, compel his SS to confiscate every American's gun, drain the job-creators' bank accounts and transfer that wealth to his negro friends before finally enact Sharia Law.

So now they've set a bar. They've created this perfect storm of shit without somehow realizing that it's the perfect breeding ground for some real horrifying strains of fungus. They've created an environment in which Donald Trump is the only possible outcome, somehow without realizing that eventually one day it might get away with them, squeeze out from under their control.

And thus Donald Trump's campaign was born, crawling out from the swamps that they've been trying to drown the country in for 8 years. A monster they really can't control. A mistake over which I hope they lie awake at night in tearful regret, hating themselves for what they've done. The one reasonable or patriotic bone in their body screaming out to them and forcing them to see, irrelevant to any partisan views, what a terrible thing they've done to this country.

[Harry Seaward]

Inching to the right alone doesn't create something like Trump.

I'm of the mind that Trump is a direct byproduct of Obama's election. When Obama was elected, people went absolutely fucking nuts. It was obviously because he's black and that alone is a direct insult to the integrity of a large percentage of the country, they view a black President as an attack on their nation and everything it stands for. There was absolutely nothing else radical about Obama that warranted the outrageous amount of insanity and vitriol that followed. The (relatively well deserved) hate Bush got was, well uh, bush league compared to how fucking batshit insane people went over Obama.

So you have the nonstop cries of 'fascist' and 'communist' and 'Muslim' by the right, which Fox News immediately decided to commercialize on using their "opinion shows" and mouthpieces like Glenn Beck (who, ironically, just came out today speaking in support of Obama and how wrong he realizes he was and how awful Trump would be as POTUS.) So Fox News commercialized on this indescribable amount of hate and fed into it all. day. long, every single day. They attacked from the top while the Koch Brothers and Company took it on from the bottom, astroturfing the Tea Party into existence, which placed walking personifications of this vitriol and ultra far right rhetoric and no-exception obstructionism into Congress.

So now the majority of the right has to play into this behavior because it's what their base wants. They can't possibly show Obama any mercy or work with him in any situation, any context, no matter the stakes, ever. Period. If it takes shutting down the government to stick it to Obongo, then so be it. Which is justified of course, because as you know he's literally trying to destroy America from the inside. He's going to enact Martial Law which will enable him to outlaw all Christian churches, compel his SS to confiscate every American's gun, drain the job-creators' bank accounts and transfer that wealth to his negro friends before finally enact Sharia Law.

So now they've set a bar. They've created this perfect storm of shit without somehow realizing that it's the perfect breeding ground for some real horrifying strains of fungus. They've created an environment in which Donald Trump is the only possible outcome, somehow without realizing that eventually one day it might get away with them, squeeze out from under their control.

And thus Donald Trump's campaign was born, crawling out from the swamps that they've been trying to drown the country in for 8 years. A monster they really can't control. A mistake over which I hope they lie awake at night in tearful regret, hating themselves for what they've done. The one reasonable or patriotic bone in their body screaming out to them and forcing them to see, irrelevant to any partisan views, what a terrible thing they've done to this country.

And also, really the most terrifying thing about a Clinton win is that this rhetoric is probably not going anywhere. One would hope that the right decides to tone it down and realize that they don't have to go so fucking batshit insane all the time and can actually work with a Democratic President and the world won't end, but... Hillary Clinton is pretty strongly hated.

I don't see them realistically toning things down, but I honestly don't know if it's possible for them to keep going at it with the intensity that they've been using for the past 8 years. Either the next election is just going to be candidates screaming obscenities at each other on live TV, or more likely people will just start to maybe get numb from it. It's already happened this election, Trump saying the craziest shit again and again and again, day after day after day. People are just getting bored of it and what's starting to happen is that truly horrifying or outrageous things aren't getting the reaction they warrant, because people are tired from already dealing with 4 horrifyingly outrageous things last week.

So I'm curious to see how things will progress from here, in terms of our political culture.

[Jinsai]

I see one as what he actually believes and one as what he is obligated to say as part of supporting the party. I'm sure the partisan obligation also has some future agreements tied to it "if you support Hillary, then we will do X for you"

I think that's reaching, especially considering that he said from the beginning that if Hillary won the nomination, he would support her over Donald Trump (in addition to assuring that he would not run as an independent, thereby bettering Trump's odds).

On a side note, how many people on here are seeing friends/relatives/enemies/whatever posting articles about vote trading with people in swing states? Has it really come down to something this ludicrous? Some guy/girl living in New Hampshire wants to do a write in vote for Sanders, but they don't want to hand over the election to Trump, so they're "trading" with someone in California who is willing to write in "Sanders" if they'll vote Clinton? Apparently this is going viral on the Republican side too, with people writing in "Johnson."

Give me a break, please...This is such a shit show

[allegro]

Hillary Clinton is pretty strongly hated.
Actually, she had some pretty good bipartisan relationships when she was in the Senate. We shall see. I think the same racism we saw with Obama might manifest as sexism with Clinton.

At the end of the day, we just aren't that modern; we seem like we are, but we're still in the fucking stone age. We have far to go.

[Dra508]

I know polls are just polls or as Sarah Palin would say "polls are for strippers and cross-country skiers" (true quote) but still, this may be a breather for Democrats.

Clinton has double digit lead in N.H. (http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/304631-poll-clinton-has-double-digit-lead-in-new-hampshire)

Live free or die mofos!!! New Hampshire-ites just like to be different. Nooo body tells them what to do.

I'll be wearing a pant suit tomorrow. That's what I wear when I have a meeting with a customer.

[Jinsai]

do be fair, Harry Seaward, I went pretty batshit insane at some point about 7 years into the Bush presidency. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure everything I was foaming at the mouth screaming about turned out to be true, so there's that...

[neorev]

The screenshot says nothing about "Democratic Primary" it just says primary. Factoring the Republican and Democratic ballots totalled, it comes a lot closer (7,400,644.) Maybe that's where part of the source of confusion comes from?

I don't really have the information to make any sort of judgment here, I don't even know if that CA SOS screenshot is real tbh.

Not to go back to this, but I only just seen this. Just so you know, that screenshot is 100% real. I screenshotted it myself as I was following the Cali primary progress. So yes, it is real. And even when you add the Republican ballots in, there's still plenty of missing votes. According to LA Times, there was over 235,000 officially stated as being rejected with no actual real reason given.

This Reddit thread discusses another LA Times where the math adds up to nearly 1 million ballots rejected...
https://m.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4nfdp7/already_1_million_ballots_have_been_declared/

Another article was about purposely giving voters an incorrect ballot so that their vote would not be properly counted. Also, having voters use the exact wording in order to get a correct ballot or they would be denied.

So Cali was one big clusterfuck.

And a personal story, my brother in law is a longtime Democrat and has been registered as one since he could vote here in NY. Voted in previous primaries, Presidential elections, midterm elections, wtc. But when it came time to vote in the NY primary and he wanted to vote for Bernie, his affiliation had been changed from Democrat to no affiliation without his knowledge and could not vote in the primary. He tried to do the absentee ballot and it was rejected. He was quite pissed.

[Mantra]

Inching to the right alone doesn't create something like Trump.

Well, nothing "alone" creates Trump. He's the inevitable outcome of a whole bunch of factors that I can't even begin to exhaustively list here (although you certainly did a good job of describing some of the circumstances that led to his rise).

Nevertheless, I absolutely stand by my assertion that the increasing extremism of the right is intrinsically linked to the rightward shift of the Dems. It's not a coincidence that they're both happening at the same time. There's an overall rightward trajectory happening in all of America, and the Democrats are just one piece of that. The 'lesser of two evils" philosophy of voting is, by its very design, totally incapable of stopping America's continual shift to the right, because the logic behind it is basically invincible: no matter how lame the Democrat is, the Republican will always be more of a nightmare, which therefore compels us to continue voting for the Democrats, regardless of how bad they are. This has created a situation where Democrats have absolutely nothing to lose by becoming more conservative, which is why they will continue to do so.

[allegro]

Again, I totally disagree. We have never had a CHOICE of WHO IS GOING TO RUN. The Establishment picks the candidates and then we are forced to choose among those candidates, a group of people paid off by corporate funds and Lobbyists, beholden not to us but to the funds that put them there or keep them there (note that even Elizabeth Warren is a multimillionaire). And they get elected because they are the only choice, all of them are out of the same Corporate bucket, left or right. Once they get that cash, they are beholden to the source of the cash and they only care about keeping the job.

Trump is an OPPORTUNISTIC BUSINESSSMAN who saw an UNTAPPED MARKET; he copyrighted "Make America Great Again" in 2008, he is PT Barnum. He saw disenfranchised white people, unemployed or underemployed, pissed off and ignored, angry at the System and the people in Washington; he is attracting right-wing radicalized people and he has tapped in to what they want to hear. Because he's a Marketing genius.

The Democrats and Republicans have been SO focused on their own asses for so long, on lining their own pockets, insider trading, ignoring constituents, it has led to the total destruction of the middle class. And the voters had no choices.

Socially, we have shifted left. Legalized gay marriage, an LGBT anti-discrimination bill, the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, new laws regarding affirmative consent, new decisions protecting victims of assault, new and stronger inquiries into police departments and civil rights violations, tax incentives regarding clean energy, summits regarding climate change, decriminalized pot, etc. FINANCIALLY, however, Congress is fucking Marie Antoinette.

[SchwarzerAbt]

Well, nothing "alone" creates Trump. He's the inevitable outcome of a whole bunch of factors that I can't even begin to exhaustively list here (although you certainly did a good job of describing some of the circumstances that led to his rise).

Nevertheless, I absolutely stand by my assertion that the increasing extremism of the right is intrinsically linked to the rightward shift of the Dems. It's not a coincidence that they're both happening at the same time. There's an overall rightward trajectory happening in all of America, and the Democrats are just one piece of that. The 'lesser of two evils" philosophy of voting is, by its very design, totally incapable of stopping America's continual shift to the right, because the logic behind it is basically invincible: no matter how lame the Democrat is, the Republican will always be more of a nightmare, which therefore compels us to continue voting for the Democrats, regardless of how bad they are. This has created a situation where Democrats have absolutely nothing to lose by becoming more conservative, which is why they will continue to do so.

So one thing you can do to stop this is vote green. To show them that people care for more left or more green policies. To make them realize that they are opening a window for the rise of new parties if they don't cover these issues. If Trump wins this will feel like wasting your vote. But most republican candidates in the past have been more or less idiotic. And this won't change in the foreseeable future. You have to start some day. And if you actually dislike both big candidates it seems like a good time to start.

[Harry Seaward]

Actually, she had some pretty good bipartisan relationships when she was in the Senate. We shall see. I think the same racism we saw with Obama might manifest as sexism with Clinton.

She might have (or have had) some political friends, but she's still pretty strongly hated by Americans. And unlike Obama, a lot of that hate can be justified by her actions. People hated Obama from day 1, well before they knew anything about him. He was a young politician, he hadn't even really done anything yet. That's why it's fair to justify the mass outrage as racism - because there was no other reason for it at that point. But like I said, Clinton has been in the public eye for over 20 years, so it's not quite as easy to genuinely label the majority of her criticism as unjustified or especially sexist.

But regardless of whether or not her hatred is called for, and no matter how many connections she has on the Hill, I'm not hopeful enough to say that the right is exactly going to calm down when she enters the Oval Office. I would go so far as to say that she's the most hated politician on the left, a reputation she earned well before this POTUS run. The question is: is she less hated than Barack Obama? If so, then maybe America will be able to move from a President, whose entire 8 year tenure was spent by the nation debating his legitimacy, to a President that Americans actually accept as their President. Which might allow for some governing to be done. (Although people* tout most of the last 8 years as a failure in government, it's basically exactly what the right wanted the whole time - the federal government doing nothing. (Which even still isn't enough for them. They'd prefer the federal government take steps to actively move things backwards.))

And depending on how well it does, I don't quite predict TrumpTV doing anything to calm the political seas...










*liberals

[allegro]

Obama currently has a pretty good approval rating so saying "the Country" hates him is hyperbolic. No, a certain demographic of people hate him. Republicans in Congress are said to not like him because he stonewalled them very early on, leading the Republicans to do the same to him in turn which lead to the nearly 8 years of problems we have seen in Congress.

I have not seen any Republican Congresspeople express "hate" toward Clinton during this campaign; on the contrary, I have seen a few indicate that they will vote for her instead of Trump. "American" approval or disapproval does not get reflected in D.C.; the people in Congress are so far removed from public opinion, they may as well be on Mars.

The Republicans in Congress really did NOT like Bill Clinton, but he always reached out to them, he tried working with them, so Clinton's two terms did not see the obstructionism you see here; the Democrats are just as guilty of causing it, by backing Obama early on when there was a Democratic majority in Congress and Obama allegedly refused to even meet with Republican representatives. It caused hurt feelings, and we all paid a price (although I think they all should have fucking gotten over it 6 years ago and did the job they're paid to do).

[allegro]

And a personal story, my brother in law is a longtime Democrat and has been registered as one since he could vote here in NY. Voted in previous primaries, Presidential elections, midterm elections, wtc. But when it came time to vote in the NY primary and he wanted to vote for Bernie, his affiliation had been changed from Democrat to no affiliation without his knowledge and could not vote in the primary. He tried to do the absentee ballot and it was rejected. He was quite pissed.
Yes but that fucked Clinton supporters, too, since there was no crystal ball to know for whom that voter would vote. How could they possibly know how voters wanted to vote in advance? (Hint: They don't) And from what people said on here (it happened to them), they could have voted with a provisional ballot. The people who REALLY couldn't vote were the ones where the affiliation changed from Democrat to Republican.

See this:

https://www.google.com/amp/heavy.com/news/2016/04/election-fraud-voter-registration-changed-suppression-party-affiliation-sanders-clinton-ca-ny-az-md-pa-what-to-do/amp/

Some of it could have been linked to this hack: http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2015/12/28/us-voter-database-leak/#7f570c841bb9

[Deepvoid]

This is it! Happy voting day!
I can't believe this thread started 22 months ago.
I just wanted to say that it's been pretty fun and interesting discussing American politics with you guys. I've learned quite a lot through those 22 months.

I'm gonna go see my folks tonight and what the results with them. Hopefully, the suspense won't last too long. I think if N.H. and either N.C. or Florida is called for Clinton that will be the end of it.
If those three states go to Trump, then we're gonna have to wait for Nevada results I believe.

Anyways, enough with the speculations. Enjoy your day and be safe!

[Mantra]

Again, I totally disagree. We have never had a CHOICE of WHO IS GOING TO RUN. The Establishment picks the candidates and then we are forced to choose among those candidates, a group of people paid off by corporate funds and Lobbyists, beholden not to us but to the funds that put them there or keep them there (note that even Elizabeth Warren is a multimillionaire). And they get elected because they are the only choice, all of them are out of the same Corporate bucket, left or right. Once they get that cash, they are beholden to the source of the cash and they only care about keeping the job.

Trump is an OPPORTUNISTIC BUSINESSSMAN who saw an UNTAPPED MARKET; he copyrighted "Make America Great Again" in 2008, he is PT Barnum. He saw disenfranchised white people, unemployed or underemployed, pissed off and ignored, angry at the System and the people in Washington; he is attracting right-wing radicalized people and he has tapped in to what they want to hear. Because he's a Marketing genius.

The Democrats and Republicans have been SO focused on their own asses for so long, on lining their own pockets, insider trading, ignoring constituents, it has led to the total destruction of the middle class. And the voters had no choices.

I do have a choice. I (along with every other voter in the country) have the choice to NOT vote for either of these people and instead vote for someone better.


Socially, we have shifted left. Legalized gay marriage, an LGBT anti-discrimination bill, the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, new laws regarding affirmative consent, new decisions protecting victims of assault, new and stronger inquiries into police departments and civil rights violations, tax incentives regarding clean energy, summits regarding climate change, decriminalized pot, etc. FINANCIALLY, however, Congress is fucking Marie Antoinette.

Mostly agreed, particularly with LGBTQ issues, although I'm totally unimpressed with the way Democrats have addressed climate change and police violence.

[allegro]

I do have a choice. I (along with every other voter in the country) have the choice to NOT vote for either of these people and instead vote for someone better
I have never seen a third party or independent present somebody TRULY "better" in the nearly 40 years I have been voting. Perot was interesting but he dropped out before the end. I am not a fan of the Green Party's attitude toward nuclear energy, and their candidates have been lackluster (not better). Voting third party solely to not vote two-party is no different than voting lesser-of-two-evils with two party. I would be much more apt to vote for an Independent I really liked than for yet another shitty party member I sort of liked, be it Dem, Green or Lib. But NOT voting is giving the choice to some other asshole.

I agree re climate change. Due to state's rights, the most they can do re police violence is give voice to the matter. Congress DID pass that new law requiring all police shootings to be reported to the Federal Government to be tallied in one central database (we've never had that).

It's disgusting how we are treating senior citizens and poor children, though.

[neorev]

Yes but that fucked Clinton supporters, too, since there was no crystal ball to know for whom that voter would vote. How could they possibly know how voters wanted to vote in advance? (Hint: They don't) And from what people said on here (it happened to them), they could have voted with a provisional ballot. The people who REALLY couldn't vote were the ones where the affiliation changed from Democrat to Republican.

See this:

https://www.google.com/amp/heavy.com/news/2016/04/election-fraud-voter-registration-changed-suppression-party-affiliation-sanders-clinton-ca-ny-az-md-pa-what-to-do/amp/

Some of it could have been linked to this hack: http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2015/12/28/us-voter-database-leak/#7f570c841bb9

He went to the polling station and explained his situation. He actually went twice because the first time he went they just told him that he could not vote and couldn't help in any further. He went back again that day and made a bigger issue. It took forever until they finally gave him a ballot that they said would be submitted and reviewed by a judge. He voted and it wasn't until over a month later that he got a letter saying it was rejected. He has a family and a full time job to support them and his house, so he didn't have the time to fight it further. Sadly, that happened to many people. And the people at the polling station are absolutely clueless. This is not what our voting process should be like. I think we had enough years to perfect this by now.

[Deepvoid]

First results from Dixville who voted at midnight.

https://twitter.com/DixvilleVote/status/795855891392303104/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Yes, Mitt Romney (write-ins) and Gary Johnson both got one vote. Trump got 2 and Hillary got 4.

[allegro]

Sadly, that happened to many people. And the people at the polling station are absolutely clueless. This is not what our voting process should be like. I think we had enough years to perfect this by now.
Yes, the voting system, NATIONWIDE, needs to be changed so that people don't get fucked. All people. This means black people in North Carolina NOT having to go all the way to a Federal Judge to be sure that they're even ALLOWED to vote. This means people in Michigan and several other states NOT having to try, for MANY years, to institute early voting, only to be repeatedly knocked down by Republicans due to their suspicions of "potential fraud" (e.g. "don't let those black people vote"). This means requiring incompetent and often unscrupulous election judges at polling sites being removed and replaced. This means the VOTERS RIGHTS ACT BEING REINSTATED. This means that states CANNOT CUT ELECTION BUDGETS that result in cutting or eliminating polling locations or hours.

For the primary, my Mom was nearly turned away because she couldn't produce three pieces of ID with her current address on it. EVEN THOUGH SHE HAD VOTED AT THE LAST GENERAL ELECTION AND WAS HOLDING HER VOTER ID CARD IN HER HAND. The "computer system" showed that she was hadn't voted at all, and that she had to show 3 pieces of ID even though this is only needed WHEN YOU REGISTER. SHE WAS HOLDING HER VOTER ID CARD, which you only receive in the mail AFTER YOU REGISTER.

A supervisor came over and logic prevailed and my Mom's driver's license and voter ID card was enough to allow her to vote in the primary. And I looked her up in the online system before this general election and she was in there as a standard voter, so everything was fine and everything went smoothly when I took her to the early polling location last Friday.

We realized how fucking hard it must be for minorities in the south just trying to cast a vote in a general election, only to be CONSTANTLY FUCKING UP AGAINST BRICK WALLS that are there to prevent them from using their voice.

We're just white people always allowed to vote who occasionally encounter voting board incompetence. But this gives us a taste of what it must be like for black people every fucking day. But do we DO anything about it? We shall see.

In New York, a lawsuit was filed: http://heavy.com/news/2016/04/new-york-election-fraud-lawsuit-results-voter-purge-hearing-open-primary-election-justice-usa/

There is now also legislation in New York to make it an open primary instead of a closed primary: http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?default_fld&bn=A09661&term=2015&Summary=Y&Memo=Y&Text=Y

[neorev]

allegro
I agree
I also believe NY should be an open primary

[tony.parente]

Voting today made me fucking sick to my stomach.

[allegate]

this BULLSHIT that the DNC "rigged the VOTE against Sanders" is just that: BULLSHIT

RIGGED would mean that somehow the DNC RIGGED VOTES, meaning COMMITTED FRAUD AND CHANGED VOTES. AND THAT IS FUCKING BULLSHIT.

Look, NO CANDIDATE, ANYWHERE, can make people vote for them. They can spend billions of dollars, but it doesn't insure any votes; tricky media bullshit, campaign plans, all of that shit has been in place for over TWO HUNDRED FUCKING YEARS but it doesn't make people change their vote.

As has been mentioned in here ad nauseum: Former House Speaker Eric Cantor spent nearly $3 million dollars on his campaign, but he lost to unknown David Brat who only spent around $225,000 on his campaign. Money doesn't buy votes. Neither did Cantor's influence, power, Republican backing, etc.

When American voters get into that voting booth, IT'S SECRET. NOBODY knows what they are doing. It's the ONE time we can do WHATEVER we want, and NOBODY knows it.

In the 2016 Democratic Presidential Primary, Hilary Clinton got 16,914,722 votes. Bernie Sanders got 13,206,428 votes. THAT'S A FUCKING LOT. A LOT. HE BEAT OUT 3 OTHER PRIMARY CANDIDATES TO END UP BEING IN THE FINAL TWO. HE RAISED OVER $200 MILLION DOLLARS. AND GOT 13,206,428 VOTES.

Here is the reality: More people chose to vote for Hillary Clinton than for Bernie Sanders. Period.

I like Bernie. I do. I really do. He's honest, he works hard, he's a decent human being. But his losing doesn't mean a conspiracy MADE people vote against him. If that were true, he wouldn't have gotten THAT MANY FUCKING VOTES.

Shit, I meant to like this post, not the next one.
That's just such a low thing to say. The DNC caused this. Take some responsibility. If you think me voting Jill Stein means I don't support trans people, go f*ck yourself. Get off your high horse. End of story.Because I can't get with that.

[arsenic]

Sorry guys, I don't know where to post this as it is NIN-related but I bet you're all familiar with this logo

http://i.imgur.com/uOvW8G7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/S7jXSQW.jpg


http://www.42entertainment.com/assets/projects/yearzero_poster-b89bf75b02a34d77dab850427ccc6d3a.jpg

Apparently it was designed by Michael Deppisch (https://twitter.com/deppisch/status/753994505792069633) to mock Trump's graphic designers (http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/trump-vp-pick-mike-spence-logo-225612).
I reached him out on twitter and apparently is not familiar with YZ https://twitter.com/deppisch/status/796047672193011712.

Coincidence? This is scary

source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nin/comments/5buhnj/update_trump_pence_year_zero_flag_heres_a_picture/
https://i.reddituploads.com/6aa865e157784215a51a8fa24479b37a?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&

[neorev]

Shit, I meant to like this post, not the next one. Because I can't get with that.

Can't get with what? Being told I'm anti-trans because I went and voted for the more Progressive candidate that I support and feel more connected with? When I am 100% pro-LGBTQ and live in New York, a non-swing state that will obviously go to Hillary no matter who I vote for. My single vote for Jill Stein will have zero impact on the result. I am not allowed to vote for the person that I actually want to vote for, even when that candidate is also strongly pro-LGBTQ? Longer than Hillary has been. If people have an issue with that, that kind of narrow thinking, then this country is in even deeper trouble than we thought. My fiance is also voting for Jill. Why? Because her policies and positions allign with us more. Jill Stein was supporting LGBTQ before Hillary decided to switch her stance and finally support them. So I take offense when someone tries to tell me my own stance on an issue. Apparently supporting LGBTQ community and wanting those in office who have supported them from the start rather than someone who changed their mind when votes started to come into play is not enough for some.

"I include transgender rights in GLBT protection. Sexual orientation should not be a basis for discrimination whether it's LGB or T. In my first run for office in 2002, when this issue was first brought to my attention, I was for marriage, not just civil unions. It wasn't until 3 years ago that the leadership of the Democratic Party changed its tune--even in 2004 Hillary was still opposing gay marriage. Vice President Joe Biden finally broke the ice [by saying he was "comfortable" with gay marriage in 2012]-- by that time gay marriage was rating highly favorable in the polls--is that leadership? I believe in doing what is right and leading the way. The Democratic Party is doing the opposite of that." -Jill Stein

[Deepvoid]

So it begins .. Trump has just filed a lawsuit in Nevada vs. Clark County Registrar, they allege, for keeping polls open 2 hours beyond closing time.
The voters were allegedly already in line though. I think Trump is already in panic mode.

[Mantra]

I mean, ultimately, if you're a lefty who's sincerely trying to do the right thing this election and figure whether to vote for Dems or Greens, I actually think there's validity to both perspectives, depending on how you think of it.

For example, there's this article from Noam Chomsky (who is no fan of Hillary, not at all) where he explains why strategic voting is necessary: https://chomsky.info/an-eight-point-brief-for-lev-lesser-evil-voting/ I read that article the other day and thought, "Yup. Makes sense. I'm sold."

But then I read this article from a local artist/activist who also does an excellent job of explaining the faulty logic of strategic voting: https://rlmartstudio.wordpress.com/2016/11/06/the-broken-mirror-a-fractured-movement-and-the-2016-elections/ ...It's a really long article, but it's extremely insightful. I read that and thought "Yup. This guy is so fucking right."

These are two exceptionally smart, well-informed people who have very similar political leanings exploring this issue with a lot of depth and sincerity. And yet they've both arrived at opposing positions. I respect and relate to both of their positions and think each one has validity. I'm not 100% sure what I'll do yet.

[allegro]

So it begins .. Trump has just filed a lawsuit in Nevada vs. Clark County Registrar, they allege, for keeping polls open 2 hours beyond closing time.
The voters were allegedly already in line though. I think Trump is already in panic mode.

Yeah and this was at a precinct with a bunch of Hispanic voters. (eye roll) I guess they can keep the polls open if people are in line, but they are alleging that the people weren't in line.

[ziltoid]

Robert Reich is live right now on Facebook, if you can, Check it out.

https://www.facebook.com/RBReich/videos/1360942967251629/?ref=notif&notif_t=live_video_explicit&notif_id=1478621236298952

[WorzelG]

Trump gets booed as he votes in New York, ha
https://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20161108/midtown-east/donald-trump-booed-vote-election-polling-site

[Mantra]

You know, how many people can say they've ever been booed while voting for themselves? That's gotta be a pretty unique experience.

[Deepvoid]

TYT live coverage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZOW_9rVkdo) has been very interesting so far.

[Sarah K]

Are TYT still full-on Tea Party of the Left-ing?

[Deepvoid]

Are TYT still full-on Tea Party of the Left-ing?

I wouldn't say so, especially since they decided to create a new show within the network called "Agressive Progressive" which is definitely now their new extreme left-leaning show.
So the main channel I would say is left-leaning but without being so extreme about it.

[Harry Seaward]

Are TYT still full-on Tea Party of the Left-ing?

They're definitely not trying to be subtle.

[thevoid99]

I already casted my vote as I did a write-in since I am not satisfied with any of the top candidates so here is my pick for President of the United States of America....

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/537955f1e4b0aefc671ee0ee/t/5790f115be65943e371a90de/1469116700514/

[Jinsai]

well, I'm glad I didn't trust that polling time map... I just voted and the sign said the polls close at 8 here in California

[Sarah K]

I cannot believe how emotional I got about voting today. As soon as I got to my booth and read Clinton's name, I immediately started crying. I went through and filled out the rest of my ballot before I came back to fill in the bubble by her name through tears coming down my face.

What a surreal experience. I got to do something I never thought was going to be possible in my lifetime.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE.

[onthewall2983]

https://twitter.com/lindsayzoladz/status/796111184349069313

[Mantra]

well, I'm glad I didn't trust that polling time map... I just voted and the sign said the polls close at 8 here in California

Yeah, sorry for posting that. It said Minnesota polls close at 9, but I just saw that they close at 8. So that map is fucked. I got it from a quick google search and just assumed it was accurate. I probably should have done more EXTREME VETTING with the search results.

[allegro]

I cannot believe how emotional I got about voting today. As soon as I got to my booth and read Clinton's name, I immediately started crying. I went through and filled out the rest of my ballot before I came back to fill in the bubble by her name through tears coming down my face.

What a surreal experience. I got to do something I never thought was going to be possible in my lifetime.

WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE.

I actually got more emotional watching my 78-yr-old Mom unhesitatingly selecting Hillary's name on the touch-screen ballot and then my Mom stopped for a few seconds just to look at it; I get emotional just thinking about it. So many generations of women never thought they ever be able to do this.

Meanwhile, I saw Republican Strategist and activist Ana Navarro on The View this morning and this was ELECTRIFYING, wow: http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/video/republican-strategist-ana-navarro-voting-hillary-clinton-43390799

[Sarah K]

I mean, it does say that all times are in Eastern.

[Mantra]

^ lol, oh yeah.

Whatever, not my fault. I can barely read.

[Deepvoid]

Kentucky, Indiana & W.V. to Trump.
Vermont, Illinois called for Clinton.

Score 68-48 Clinton.

[Sutekh]

UK news is saying shots fired near a polling station in California?

[allegate]

And there's a shooting in California. WTF people.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-azusa-shooting-injuries-20161108-story.html

[allegro]

Wow. :) THANKS, SUZIE B!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BMjWDaRjEp-/?taken-by=jbertolus

http://i.imgur.com/ku8bkJv.png

[Mantra]

^I saw that earlier! Pretty epic.

It occurred to me earlier that, regardless of who I end up deciding to vote for, I'll be voting for a woman. There's no denying the historical significance of this moment.

[Deepvoid]

Trump has a substential lead in Virginia. That would be quite the upset.

[Sarah K]

The bigger and left leaning cities in VA have yet to report. Everything I'm looking at still has Clinton projected to win there.

[theimage13]

Wow. :) THANKS, SUZIE B!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BMjWDaRjEp-/?taken-by=jbertolus

http://i.imgur.com/ku8bkJv.png

That's gotta be an older clip. I was there around noon and the only visible part of the stone was her name. Everything else was covered in MULTIPLE layers of stickers. Had to park several blocks away. Line took me just shy of an hour and a half, and people were lined up way past where I started when I finally left.

To call it an emotional experience would be an understatement. I still haven't found the words to describe how it felt to be at that spot today.

edit: not my post, but a more accurate photo of the current state of it: https://www.instagram.com/p/BMkhUvTDIeH/?tagged=susanbanthony
second edit: and the state of the site after sunset: https://www.instagram.com/p/BMkf5-sAuoh/?tagged=susanbanthony

[Mantra]

Man, fucking Florida is gonna give me a goddamn ulcer.

[allegro]

That's gotta be an older clip. I was there around noon and the only visible part of the stone was her name. Everything else was covered in MULTIPLE layers of stickers. Had to park several blocks away. Line took me just shy of an hour and a half, and people were lined up way past where I started when I finally left.

To call it an emotional experience would be an understatement. I still haven't found the words to describe how it felt to be at that spot today.

edit: not my post, but a more accurate photo of the current state of it: https://www.instagram.com/p/BMkhUvTDIeH/?tagged=susanbanthony
HOLY SHIT! yeah, my above post and pic was showing up in my Instagram feed but, WOW!!!!

Awesome! :-)

See also this: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/11/08/501167896/hours-of-susan-b-anthonys-gravesite-extended-to-accommodate-election-day-visits


second edit: and the state of the site after sunset: https://www.instagram.com/p/BMkf5-sAuoh/?tagged=susanbanthony

OH MY GOD!! (sniffle)

[allegro]

Dude on MSNBC: with Trump voters -- "you are seeing a backlash of the political correctness being imposed on them..."

Ugh, puleez.

[Deepvoid]

GOP retains control of the House.

[Dryalex12]

im glad to see florida hasn't changed

[Mantra]

GOP retains control of the House.

Yeah, depressing, but no surprise there at all. Its the senate where there's more of a battle at stake.

[Deepvoid]

The whole thing is wayyyyy tighter than I thought it would be. Trump is closing in in Ohio and N.C.
Still leading in VA and FL.

How do you guys feel right about the results so far?

[theruiner]

Dude on MSNBC: with Trump voters -- "you are seeing a backlash of the political correctness being imposed on them..."

Ugh, puleez."We have to be nice to minorities! Boooo! You don't know our struggle!!"

[Mantra]

How do you guys feel right about the results so far?
^Alcohol. Alcohol is how I feel.

[slave2thewage]

I better go and get some sleep - my alarm goes off in three hours - but sort your shit out, Florida.

[Mantra]

"We have to be nice to minorities! Boooo! You don't know our struggle!!"

"Wait...You mean to tell me that cops can't just murder black people on sight with impunity? POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD!!"

[Deepvoid]

This was pretty much expected. N Carolina was always predicted to be a toss-up, and he was pretty much expected to take Ohio. These early returns are Trump territory except for parts of the Midwest and the Eastern seaboard. But, WAIT until we start moving WEST. It's still really early.

I really don't like his lead in VA. This was not supposed to be a toss up state.

[Dryalex12]

slowly loosing all sense of humanity atm

[Deepvoid]

Nope, VA is bad. Carville is saying VA could mean a win for Trump.

An expert on MSNBC is saying what this is saying is that Americans don't want to be a part of a global economy, they don't want to be globalists.

I think we could be looking at a bunch of fucking STUNNED news people on CNN and MSNBC.

Yeah I put VA and N.C to Trump on 270towin and that pretty much gives him the W.H. if you add FL and OH. She would need to steal AZ.

VA is definitely fucking everything up.

[Dryalex12]

Are we really this stupid?

[GulDukat]

Trump is going to win. I can't belive it.

[Frozen Beach]

Trump is going to win. I can't belive it.
This is why you never underestimate your enemy, no matter how stupid they might be.

I'm too drunk for this shit.

[Dryalex12]

This is the beginning of the end

[cahernandez]

Americans, WTF????????

[cashpiles (closed)]

7 MINUTES AGOhttps://s3.amazonaws.com/avatars.scribblelive.com/2016/1/19/5b260c15-7d75-4590-92af-f5120f99ee6e.jpg
Haydn Watters
CBC News

The latest count. Trump is leading with 49.87 per cent of the popular vote. Vote-rich California is still to come.

https://images.scribblelive.com/2016/11/9/aaf14a4c-12c0-449e-891a-bb85659f9fce.jpg

[Sarah K]

NYT Live Prediction shows Trump over 50% for the first time this evening.

[sweeterthan]

Ok I'm starting to freak out


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Deepvoid]

NYT Upshot has a lot of Dem. votes outstanding in VA. That's positive.

[october_midnight]

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15027590_10157613432270468_4945256189786839336_n.j pg?oh=3283a29e3f830923b0bc7d4d8455b303&oe=5886FC72

[thelastdisciple]

There will be suicides if Trump wins i am sure.

[Deepvoid]

Clinton now leading in VA.

The issue now appears to be Michigan.

[elevenism]

Holy fucking jesus y'all.
This is really happening.

Millions of rednecks who have never voted before, sick of that "nigger" in the WHITE house and see Clinton as his proxy, are turning out in droves.

We should have seen it coming.

Also, looking at the dow, i wish we would have sold ALL of our stocks before this shit. It would seem that a Trump win equals a stock market plunge.
And a sizable chunk of my family's shit is in the stock market. Fuck.

Jesus. Fuck.

[tony.parente]

This is what happens when the Democratic Party nominates such an unpopular, unlikable, shady ass nominee. I'm interested in how this pans out.

[theimage13]

We should have seen it coming.

I did see it coming. I've just been praying to every god I've ever thought about believing in that maybe I was just being overly pessimistic.

I'm shocked by the people who are shocked right now. You thought this would be a quiet night of Hillary winning? Really? Did you already forget how everyone fucking laughed when the orange shithead threw his hat into the ring last year? How it was just a joke that no one took seriously? Christ you people are fucking idiots if you genuinely thought that Clinton would just stroll into victory tonight. Maybe she still has a shot; the night's not over. But holy fuck you've got to be a special kind of moronic if you really, truly thought that this would be an uneventful landslide win for Clinton.

[TheyCallMeDrug]

:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(

[Deepvoid]

man, a possible Trump win. Along with the House and Senate almost certainly going to the GOP.

if any of you suddenly change your view on gun ownership... let me know, i've got you covered! :P

Yeah that's the scary part with the GOP keeping the House and Senate. That gives Trump an absolute majority.

[Dryalex12]

my god we really are this stupid

[tony.parente]

You know WHY he is winning this big (so far, at 9 pm Central time), right?? A big part of it is all those Bernie fans who refused to vote for Clinton.

And the people who sat on their asses and didn't vote for Clinton because (insert reason here). So, yup, 8 years of Trump. Weeee!

It won't affect ME one bit. But I sure hope it jams shit up the asses of all those who didn't vote, protested voted, or actually believed him.

(The night isn't over yet, though.)

A LOT of us went Jill or Johnson.

[Amaro]

A LOT of us went Jill or Johnson.

Cool tale. Especially the bit about Trump being the candidate to beat.

[tony.parente]

Yup. Hope ya love Trump for 8 years! MAZEL TOV!!

I know *I* am gonna get a big fat fucking tax cut. But, sucks to be y'all. Hey, Jill Stein gets lots of new hair cuts from those leftover campaign funds, though.

Hillary isn't a likable candidate, Bernie would have won in a landslide. I'm not happy about this either but honestly the numbers are proving what has been said the last 3 months.

[cashpiles (closed)]

Canada is our biggest trading partner. Our biggest source of oil. So Canada is expected to take a total financial SHITTER if Trump wins. Bye bye NAFTA.
@cashpiles (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=750) is gonna win $300 but lose his ass.

I'm in the ESL industry. We depend on international students. Trump's win will not hurt my income, and may in fact increase it. International students will more likely choose Canada to study English in if Trump wins.


As for TRUMP's performance... everyone forgot about the senior citizens. Senior citizens love Trump.

[sick among the pure]

Yup. Hope ya love Trump for 8 years! MAZEL TOV!!

You know what, no, deleting 5 minutes worth of typing.
Your attitude about this situation makes me want even more to say I fucking told all of you this would happen. Everyone underestimated how HATED HILLARY CLINTON IS IN THIS COUNTRY.

And now, people like me, have to actually fear for our safety and our lives because the DNC had to nominate their fucking queen that they pushed on us for a year and we still didn't want.

Before you say shit, I fucking voted for Hillary simply out of fear of Trump.
Don't blame this on "millennials" or Bernie-or-busters, blame it on the people who voted for Trump, and those who were all too sure that Hillary would win just because she's not Trump.

[Deepvoid]

I'm calling it now. Trump is gonna win.
MI and WI are red. End of story.

[thevoid99]

Is it too early to write an obituary for America (1776-2016?)

[Dryalex12]

good god its at 91%

[tony.parente]

Honestly the ones to blame are the ones who voted to nominate Clinton to begin with. If there was a worthwhile candidate they would be winning right now. This thread is throwing a bigger hissy fit than us Bernie folks ever did, we tried to warn you.

[Dryalex12]

and there goes Ohio

[Sarah K]

Yeah. Everyone is totally cooking up conspiracy theories as to why this is happening, and not accepting that this is how people voted...

[slave2thewage]

Anyone want to come to my country before we build a wall across the Atlantic?

Looks like 2016 gets topped off with this bullshit.

[cashpiles (closed)]

Trump up the jam
Trump it up
While your feet are stomping
And the jam is Trumping
Look ahead, the crowd is jumpin'

Trump it up a little more
Get the party goin' on the dance floor
See, 'cause that's where the party's at
And you'd find out if you do that

[Frozen Beach]

Welp, at least if Trump wins, Lena Dunham and Amy Schumer will move to Canada
and we'll definitely get Year Zero 2

[marodi]

It was nice knowing you, America!

[elevenism]

We got virginia at least, there is still hope

[elevenism]

man, a possible Trump win. Along with the House and Senate almost certainly going to the GOP.

if any of you suddenly change your view on gun ownership... let me know, i've got you covered! :P
Dude, i live in the texas panhandle. You don't have a house without a shotgun in the texas panhandle.

[slave2thewage]

The Canadian immigration site is currently under such heavy load that it is down. cic.gc.ca/english
This is seriously Brexit: Colonies Edition. The Irish passport site went down after Brexit happened because of the load.

[tony.parente]

Welp, at least if Trump wins, Lena Dunham and Amy Schumer will move to Canada
and we'll definitely get Year Zero 2

A win on all fronts!!

[sick among the pure]

All these dumbasses who voted for Johnson

You mean the 2-3% 3rd party votes that swing states are getting? Even if all of them voted for Hillary, she'd still be losing all of those states.
Or like how she only won NY state because of NYC, again, the rest of the state voted against her. By pretty much the same percentages that they voted against her in the primaries.

Tell me more about how people who voted 3rd party lead to Trump having a 92% chance of winning tonight.

[Deepvoid]

Just called FL to Trump.

[marodi]

Dan Rather is live on Facebook right now and he's being very graceful.

edit: and he was very hopeful. "America will go on".

*cues Celine Dion*

[sick among the pure]

It was nice knowing you, America!

You know how you told me happy birthday on my FB wall? Well, um... you wanna give me a cheat sheet for the citizenship test? :p I've always loved all of Ontario that I've been to, and already love hockey and poutine and how to survive winter in Buffalo.

[tony.parente]

You mean the 2-3% 3rd party votes that swing states are getting? Even if all of them voted for Hillary, she'd still be losing all of those states.
Or like how she only won NY state because of NYC, again, the rest of the state voted against her. By pretty much the same percentages that they voted against her in the primaries.

Tell me more about how people who voted 3rd party lead to Trump having a 92% chance of winning tonight.
People underestimated just how unlikable clinton was, so unlikable that a LOT of people simply didn't vote...even if that meant a trump presidency. I'm interested to see how many more or less democrats/republicans turned out compared to last time. Honestly this seems really similar to when the country was tired of bushs shit and Obama (my first vote) brought in a lot of young and disenfranchised voters.

[marodi]

You know how you told me happy birthday on my FB wall? Well, um... you wanna give me a cheat sheet for the citizenship test? :p I've always loved all of Ontario that I've been to, and already love hockey and poutine and how to survive winter in Buffalo.

Of course I will! God save the Queen, Canada is turning 150 next year, we love everybody, we are Communists at heart and Canada owes its health care program to Kiefer Sutherland's grand dad. Oh and hockey and beer.

:D

[Deepvoid]

Market and dollar are crashing.

[sick among the pure]

Of course I will! God save the Queen, Canada is turning 150 next year, we love everybody, we are Communists at heart and Canada owes its health care program to Kiefer Sutherland's grand dad. Oh and hockey and beer.

:D

And Trent always has a stop in Toronto/Hamilton every tour!

[sick among the pure]

http://i65.tinypic.com/24g50us.jpg

Beautiful. Good job America. Happy fucking birthday to me. I'm unplugging my internet until morning.

[Deepvoid]

N.C. called for Trump.

[cahernandez]

shit, i should have bought gold or something. Too late now! I guess I can grab a bunch of bitcoin real quick.

Been watching the Peso
http://www.investing.com/currencies/usd-mxn-chart

Dude that is depressing...I live in Mexico, and am going to buy equipment for my brewery from the US. Our investment is about to get more expensive!

[elevenism]

@elevenism (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2475) - nah man. don't try and marginalize the voters into that stereotype. doing so is EXACTLY why nobody was expecting this.
you are right man. that was a kneejerk reaction.
I'm always preaching love and unity and shouldn't be saying shit like that.

[TheyCallMeDrug]

michigan or bust. if trump wins MI its done.

[tony.parente]

Looks like Hillary is deleting trumps lead and closing in.

[botley]

Thanks for nothing you millions of assholes.

[Dryalex12]

wow MI is really close right now

[Deepvoid]

MI is close but WI is not. That's a big problem.

[Dryalex12]

God damnit florida

[allegro]

Thanks for nothing you millions of assholes.

You do realize that none of us here voted for Trump, right?

[Deepvoid]

She actually has a path without WI. She needs NV, MI, N.H. and NE & ME districts.

[TheyCallMeDrug]

MI MI MI MI MI....:mad:

[neorev]

Bet y'all are missing Bernie now lol

He would have destroyed Trump

[tony.parente]

Bet y'all are missing Bernie now lol

He would have destroyed Trump
A broken toaster would have destroyed trump.

[Deepvoid]

I can't even begin to imagine what a Trump cabinet is gonna look like.

[cynicmuse]

I can't even begin to imagine what a Trump cabinet is gonna look like.
I made the poor life choice of watching Fox News, and they were already hypothesizing Newt Gingrich as Secretary of State and Rudy Giuliani as Attorney General. I was hoping for head explosions and got the dance party instead.

[hellospaceboy]

I would like to apologize for saying a few days ago that the science behind polling is solid... Nope!

[Jinsai]

this is fucking insane

http://thedailybanter.com/2016/11/jill-stein-endorsed-donald-trump/

[thevoid99]

Fuck science. Fuck these racist assholes who endorsed this moron who will put this country to ruins.

[Jinsai]

also, hey there goes the stock market.... FUCK THIS SHIT. Fuck this cannot be happening!

[Mantra]

I've been looking at the map on 270 to win, and maybe I'm wrong (maybe I missed a state?), but it looks like she actually needs more than just Michigan. She either needs Michigan+Wisconsin or she needs Michigan+New Hampshire. If she only gets Michigan and Trump grabs New Hampshire and Wisconsin, then I still don't think she'll have enough.

[Krazy]

If the dork ends up winning, do have this to look forward to...

http://heatst.com/politics/canadas-immigration-site-crashes-as-liberals-panic/

[implanted_microchip]

I can't believe I'm feeling this hopeless

[ziltoid]

I don;t thibk there's enough alcohol to fix this shit.

[Deepvoid]

Alright I'm done for the night. There's just no path for Clinton. This is so frustrating but what you gonna do besides brace for impact.

[Dryalex12]

well, lets see how long he last before people start to impeach him....

[tony.parente]

Y'all are being a bit dramatic.

[Dryalex12]

i sware to god penn...

[TheyCallMeDrug]

president trump?

[Krazy]

No, you guys just aren't understanding this. You just are not grasping this.

This is about ALL these people getting out and voting for Trump. More than any Republicans who have ever voted IN HISTORY.

Because they love Trump.

Goes to show how horrible the Democratic nominee was, more than anything else.

[Shadaloo]

Even through my tears and the wailing and weeping and the gnashing of the teeth...I wonder how it'll sound. (http://teamrock.com/feature/2016-06-21/andrew-eldritch-sisters-of-mercy-will-make-another-album-if-trump-is-elected)

[Mantra]

i sware to god penn...

yeah, what the fuck

[thevoid99]

I guess this proves that democracy is a failed concept. Thanks a lot America.

[Exocet]

I knew this would happen. The whole Western World seems to be rejecting something.

[Mantra]

How am I supposed to work tomorrow?

[TheyCallMeDrug]

I guess this proves that democracy is a failed concept. Thanks a lot America.

just cause a shitty candidate won doesn't prove democracy failed. it actually proved it worked.

albeit in a horrible way....but that's what happens in such a polarizing election.

[thevoid99]

just cause a shitty candidate won doesn't prove democracy failed. it actually proved it worked.

albeit in a horrible way....but that's what happens in such a polarizing election.

Then I'm never voting again. It's now fucking likely my parents are going to be deported to that shithole country of Honduras while I will lose my social security benefits and become homeless.

[TheyCallMeDrug]

MI is being projected as a diff of 19k votes right now, holy shit

thats the size of a nin live audience!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sarah K]

This post from Shaun King is what made me break down and start crying for the second time today. For the complete opposite reason.


Dear Muslims, Immigrants, Women, Disabled, LGBTQ folk, and All People of Color,
I love you - boldly and proudly. We will endure. We will not break.

I am glad that he is confident in that. I am not.

[neorev]

Bernie would have took all of the third party votes as well as bring out the youth vote. Polling showed Bernie destroyed Trump in primaries with an average double digit lead. I know a bunch of Republicans who would have voted for him instead of Trump, but they just couldn't vote for Hillary.

This election was about the outside voter... the third party voter... the Independents... the youth... Bernie had that support. He even had some Republicans.

The atmosphere of this election was anti-establishment. So the DNC going with the establishment candidate against a sideshow like Trump was a stupid move.

Honestly, people trying to act all strategic with their vote for Hillary now should have been thinking like that back during the primary and went with Bernie.

[TheyCallMeDrug]

Then I'm never voting again. It's now fucking likely my parents are going to be deported to that shithole country of Honduras while I will lose my social security benefits and become homeless.

again, that doesn't prove anything about democracy failing.

I'm all for your side, i think it's horrible but when someone gets the majority of the votes and wins its "working".

[Mantra]

One scrap of good news: Joe Arpaio, fucking scum of the earth, lost his bid for reelection. Uh, good riddance.

[allegro]

Then I'm never voting again. It's now fucking likely my parents are going to be deported to that shithole country of Honduras while I will lose my social security benefits and become homeless.
To be fair, Obama has deported more people than any other President in history but you are still here.

Are your parents legally here?

[allegro]

"Stock market futures trading halted--they reached the 5% maximum drop."
dude
That's not all that uncommon, they kinda go nuts with uncertainty.

[neorev]

Trump didn't win a single poll against Bernie from February 10th to June 5th...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html

Bernie led as high as 24 points.
Trump only won 6 of the 44 polls, plus he only won by +1 to +5

[allegro]

Trump didn't win a single poll against Bernie from February 10th to June 5th...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_sanders-5565.html

Bernie led as high as 24 points.

And the polls had Hillary winning tonight, too.

Polls suck.

Bernie didn't get enough people out to get him to win against Clinton. Corruption aside, he still should have won by a landslide against Clinton with all that support. He didn't. He didn't have nearly the same support as Trump. Trump has obviously broken records, as is manifested tonight. We can spin this however we want but the proof is in the numbers vs. the numbers that Bernie got in the Primary (13,206,428 votes). Trump got more votes than that in the Republican primary. And he is breaking Republican records tonight. Put Bernie in there but Trump would have STILL pulled these numbers.

[neorev]

And the polls had Hillary winning tonight, too.

Polls suck.

There's a big difference between Bernie's +24 (average +10.4 for 44 polls) to Hillary's few point lead.

[Jinsai]

Vegas is going blue...

[Dryalex12]

I still like how nothing came out of Alaska yet

[Jinsai]

I still like how nothing came out of Alaska yet

They will go red...

[neorev]

Honestly, wikileaks just said it best:

"By biasing its internal electoral market the DNC selected the less competitive candidate defeating the purpose of running a primary."

Exactly. The DNC backed the weaker candidate.

[Mantra]

I still like how nothing came out of Alaska yet It's guaranteed to go red.

EDIT: Jinsai beat me. Thread is moving too fast!

[neorev]

https://i.imgflip.com/1a901f.jpg

[thevoid99]

To be fair, Obama has deported more people than any other President in history but you are still here.

Are your parents legally here?

They're residents....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7GY1Xg6X20

[elevenism]

No, you guys just aren't understanding this. You just are not grasping this.

This is about ALL these people getting out and voting for Trump. More than any Republicans who have ever voted IN HISTORY.

Because they love Trump.
idk allegro , i think a lot of Trump votes are votes against the status quo, votes against the establishment of BOTH parties.

[elevenism]

also @theimage13 (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=809) , how can you call people idiots for not expecting this when EVERY poll predicted Clinton to win for almost every day of the election season?

This is a MASSIVE upset.

[allegro]

There's a big difference between Bernie's +24 (average +10.4 for 44 points ) to Hillary's few point lead.

This isn't about Bernie or Clinton vs Trump.

This is about Trump the phenomenon pulling HUGE numbers of Republican voters against ANY Democratic nominee in order to repeal Obamacare, primarily, and "take back the Government" from the "libertards."

elevenism, no, I know a bunch of Trump fanatics. They hate Liberals, they HATE Obamacare, they hate Obama, they think Trump is going to fix the country.

They bitch about freeloaders wanting free shit, they don't want to pay any more taxes, they don't want their taxes to go to anybody else, they say they work hard for their money and they think the government is wasting it on everything. They worry about the 2nd Amendment etc.

[Jinsai]

well, on the bright side, weed is going to be legal here, and that will help me deal with this bullshit

[Dryalex12]

sigh...ive just accepted it now.

America, To quote one of my favorite Deftones songs...."Something's wrong with you, and I hope we never do meet again"

[neorev]

idk allegro , i think a lot of Trump votes are votes against the status quo, votes against the establishment of BOTH parties.

Yes, I know many people who voted for Trump who are not every day go to Republican voter or they are completely new to voting... Trump was their "Fuck You establishment" vote. They just hate politicians, the state of politics, the state of the country, and the state of their lives. Trump was their way to say, "Hey politicians, get your shit together and help the American people out or we'll vote you out or choose an outsider over you."

[Ryan]

I'm looking forward to the next South Park episode.

[Krazy]

I would vote for allegro 's avatar if I could. :(

Not kidding either. Wanted to do a farce vote (I did not vote for the record) for one of my three pets. Obviously can't do that.