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allegro
07-11-2016, 11:56 AM
The Washington Times: Pence has "95% chance of being Trump's VP pick", according to insiders (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jul/10/donald-trump-likely-choose-indiana-gov-mike-pence-/)
THIS ARTICLE goes over why he might accept (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/437654/donald-trump-running-mate-mike-pence-considers-accepting), although it says Pence is an "Evangelical Catholic" ... um, what the FUCK? You're either Catholic or you're Evangelical; you're not BOTH.

Edit: Evidently, he was raised as a Catholic but then he was born again and became Protestant Evangelical. So he is no longer a Catholic. Don't people GET this? Evangelical is absolutely a Protestant concept.

Anyway, Pence is a Tea Party asshole. Trump is digging his grave.

DigitalChaos
07-11-2016, 12:28 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelical_Catholic

Khrz
07-11-2016, 12:35 PM
Don't people GET this? Evangelical is absolutely a Protestant concept.

It's not like religion has any hard limit on what kind of order or even schism can be made from various bits and pieces... Especially with Catholics.

implanted_microchip
07-11-2016, 01:14 PM
Don't people GET this? Evangelical is absolutely a Protestant concept.

Why are you expecting Trump's choices and campaign to make any logical, reasonable sense at this stage in the game

allegro
07-11-2016, 01:38 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelical_Catholic

Note that the use of the word "catholic" is not the same as belonging to the Roman Catholic Church (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholicism)

I took college Theology classes and I was raised as a Roman Catholic and Evangelicals' main premise is not only the Gospels but being born again (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evangelicalism).


During the Reformation, Protestant theologians embraced the label as referring to "gospel truth". Martin Luther referred to the evangelische Kirche ("evangelical church") to distinguish Protestants from Catholics in the Roman Catholic Church

SEE ALSO (http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/religion-and-philosophy/apologetics/catholics-vs-evangelicals.html).

Fact: Pence was raised as a Roman Catholic but he was born again and joined an Evangelical Protestant church (http://www.indygrace.org).

Trump is just trying to cover all bases, here, but he is losing the bigger picture: Evangelicals don't control this country.

tony.parente
07-12-2016, 11:32 AM
Bernie has officially endorsed Hillary Clinton today. (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/07/12/bernie-sanders-endorse-hillary-clinton-today-new-hampshire/86954050/)


https://youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc

implanted_microchip
07-12-2016, 11:33 AM
Bernie has officially endorsed Hillary Clinton today. (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/07/12/bernie-sanders-endorse-hillary-clinton-today-new-hampshire/86954050/)

So like are you going to start saying his entire career is invalidated like you did when Elizabeth Warren did so or is this somehow a special case

I cannot wait to watch the meltdown so many idiots are about to have over this

tony.parente
07-12-2016, 11:36 AM
So like are you going to start saying his entire career is invalidated like you did when Elizabeth Warren did so or is this somehow a special case

I cannot wait to watch the meltdown so many idiots are about to have over this
No, I'm going to say he's turned his back against everything he's ran for by backing the big banks and a candidate more corporate than a nascar race.

implanted_microchip
07-12-2016, 11:42 AM
God it must be so difficult living inside of such a narrative bubble at all times

allegro
07-12-2016, 11:43 AM
No, I'm going to say he's turned his back against everything he's ran for by backing the big banks and a candidate more corporate than a nascar race.
You mean, like every other one of his fellow members of Congress? Heh. Welcome to America, buddy. He wasn't going to change THAT narrative by becoming President, either.

And gee, look, Hillary authored this bill (https://www.congress.gov/bill/110th-congress/senate-bill/2866). Too bad most Sanders fans won't get what it means.

I love that "more corporate" is now some kind of boogeyman even though a corporation is really just an entity to shield itself from liabilities and the vast majority of corporations are privately held (no stocks sold) and have ZERO to do with Wall Street. In fact, the vast majority of corporations are owned by a single private owner. It's just some Bernie Fan speak that people throw around without knowing what any of it really means. Banks are also separate from Wall Street as they are financial institutions. But we digress ...

tony.parente
07-12-2016, 11:47 AM
God it must be so difficult living inside of such a narrative bubble at all times
Im sorry I don't back your bought and paid for candidate.

implanted_microchip
07-12-2016, 11:48 AM
You mean, like every other one of his fellow members of Congress? Heh. Welcome to America, buddy. He wasn't going to change THAT narrative by becoming President, either.

Clearly, allegro, the corporate Democratic whores own this country and we have to storm the barricades with Jill Stein to take it back! #Stop$hillary

botley
07-12-2016, 11:51 AM
I'm disappointed in Sanders (not because he endorsed Clinton) because in at least one very important policy area, his objective to reform the Democratic party platform before the convention has already failed (https://theintercept.com/2016/07/12/george-w-bush-v-clinton-led-democrats-on-palestinians-equality-and-the-israeli-occupation/). His campaign is running out of accomplishments that aren't in the dubious "moral victory" category. Hashtag activism doing its thing — were his supporters putting pressure on anybody to actually help achieve things they said they wanted? Or is it easier to retreat behind "IT'S ALL RIGGED ANYWAY, FUCK THIS" and leaving the room?

Swykk
07-12-2016, 11:55 AM
There was never much hope. Only a fool's hope.

You're still the absolute worst in this thread, kleiner352. The sorest winner.

That said, I'm a man of my word and I will vote for her to stop Trump (and likely my home state's own embarrassment, Mike Pence) from burning the world to the foundation.

allegro
07-12-2016, 11:57 AM
I'm disappointed in Sanders (not because he endorsed Clinton) because in at least one very important policy area, his objective to reform the Democratic party platform before the convention has already failed (https://theintercept.com/2016/07/12/george-w-bush-v-clinton-led-democrats-on-palestinians-equality-and-the-israeli-occupation/). His campaign is running out of accomplishments that aren't in the dubious "moral victory" category. Hashtag activism doing its thing — were his supporters putting pressure on anybody to actually help achieve things they said they wanted? Or is it easier to retreat behind "IT'S ALL RIGGED ANYWAY, FUCK THIS" and leaving the room?

It's kinda hypocritical for a guy who isn't a member of a political party to crash the party and attempt to "change" it and then leave the party. Which he's going to do in about 30 seconds.

There was never any possibility of "moral victory" when he wanted to play both sides of the fence: get rid of Superdelegates, yet USE the Superdelegates to get elected.

Anyway, it's over and it's time to beat Trump and that piece of shit Pence.

allegro
07-12-2016, 11:59 AM
Im sorry I don't back your bought and paid for candidate.
He voted for Sanders, LOL.

Ultimately, Sanders was paid-for by his supporters, so it's all how you look at it, I suppose.

Sarah K
07-12-2016, 12:03 PM
Bernie's speech was pretty good today. I feel bad for him. Glad to see him doing this, though. And glad that he made it perfectly clear that Hillary won, and that he will support her now.

Thanks, Bernie. :)

implanted_microchip
07-12-2016, 12:08 PM
I'm disappointed in Sanders (not because he endorsed Clinton) because in at least one very important policy area, his objective to reform the Democratic party platform before the convention has already failed (https://theintercept.com/2016/07/12/george-w-bush-v-clinton-led-democrats-on-palestinians-equality-and-the-israeli-occupation/). His campaign is running out of accomplishments that aren't in the dubious "moral victory" category. Hashtag activism doing its thing — were his supporters putting pressure on anybody to actually help achieve things they said they wanted? Or is it easier to retreat behind "IT'S ALL RIGGED ANYWAY, FUCK THIS" and leaving the room?

Ideally his "movement" would have led to a lot of people getting proactive and productive and involved heavily in local government and down ticket races but so far it's just a lot of whining and complaining on the internet and childish accusations of fraud and moral condescension 24/7.

And allegro you've gotta be careful with that whole nuanced and complex view thing there, don't you know politics are black and white and anyone who ever got money from anything other than individual donors is a corrupt evil maniac not worth supporting

allegro
07-12-2016, 12:10 PM
Bernie's speech was pretty good today. I feel bad for him. Glad to see him doing this, though. And glad that he made it perfectly clear that Hillary won, and that he will support her now.

Thanks, Bernie. :)

It's great that they are working together regarding things like college tuition, healthcare, and rules about companies moving jobs overseas, and moving those ideas forward.


And allegro you've gotta be careful with that whole nuanced and complex view thing there, don't you know politics are black and white and anyone who ever got money from anything other than individual donors is a corrupt evil maniac not worth supporting
Come on, dude, Bernie is working with Hillary and joining forces to beat Trump. There has been WAY too much fighting in Washington and not NEARLY enough cooperation (which is how Trump got all those votes). We should echo the spirit of cooperation and progress and positive attitude on this board and everybody should stop the sniping and sour grapes.

aggroculture
07-12-2016, 12:17 PM
He's pushing Hillary to the left; her recent pronouncements on college education and police training to me illustrate that. And I hope there's a lot more to come.
If he can push her to the left even a tiny bit, he's succeeding.

People said Occupy was a failure: it was no failure, it mainstreamed the idea of wealth inequality and the 1%

#smallvictories

implanted_microchip
07-12-2016, 12:19 PM
I would love love love to see everybody get together against Trump but very clearly people like tony and co. have zero interest in that. I got behind her the moment I realized Bernie wouldn't win because I care more about promoting Democratic values in government and keeping people like Trump out of the White House and retaking the Senate and having a liberal majority on the Supreme Court than I do about bitching chronically about how corporate interests own and destroy everything even though Trump got where he is with literally no help from SuperPACs at all.

As good old Digital Chaos told me, some people are just too far gone, right?

You have assholes flat-out behaving as if suddenly anything Bernie stood for is worthless because he did the intelligent, rational thing and accepted his losses and is backing the candidate representing the party most likely to win and lead to the policy and agenda he stands for. Any form of pragmatism, reason or general logic just seems wholesale rejected by a large group of angry, bitchy people that will not ever shut the fuck up about how morally great they are for digging their head in the sand, who would rather someone like Trump be president every election just so they can say "at least I didn't do it!" It's absurd. If you're a fourteen year old on reddit I get it. These are grown adults. What are you supposed to do with that?

And, sure, Swykk, I'm worse than someone saying two major politicians who have voted constantly for ages and pushed for progressive agenda are completely corrupted and invalidated for supporting the most likely win for progressives this November and I'm worse than the dude who said I can't be upset about cops shooting black people or rapists getting away with it because I don't think Hillary should indicted. Just the fucking worst.

allegro
07-12-2016, 01:06 PM
It's only mid-July; we have plenty of time until November. There was a group of Bernie fans who weren't Democrats in the first place so Bernie won't be able to convert them to Democratic voters; the rest will always vote Dem no matter what, because they are Democrats and believe in the values and the platform of the Democratic party.

Dra508
07-12-2016, 03:43 PM
I recall a time when it seemed like Clinton was going to be the anointed candidate and then Bernie came in. Everyone thought he was a joke candidate. One thing I believe he got accomplished was getting Hillary to actually talk about what she would do, and frankly listen. That's a big victory to me. The GOP did their fire dance and now we have Trump to vote for, I mean against.

If she wins, is it possible for Washington to block her for 4 years? At this point, maybe it makes sense to just thrown the towel in and let another country take over.

Swykk
07-12-2016, 05:12 PM
I'm really fucking bummed out by the anti-Bernie shit storm of hate, memes, and other nastiness that's been everywhere post concession this morning. This was the only move he had left. He's not a goddamn traitor.

So what now, I can't be proud of his run? His ideas? His integrity? Hillary supporters are not so welcoming and neither are the Bernie or Bust folks. I'm in this weird uncomfortable middle ground.

Not into this at all.

cashpiles (closed)
07-12-2016, 06:26 PM
It's my opinion that Hillary has felt it's her time for the past 8 years. She's the most prominent female politician in America. However it's almost like she expects to win. She knows that historically now is the time for a female president. If she doesn't win this one, there will still be the election after this... I don't really see Hillary having a chance after the next election though due to age. This is not a personal bias... but just a feeling as to how the majority of the population would vote. It's now or never for Hillary. I personally dislike her, however the ship will sail more smoothly with her in charge.

However, with her in charge you will see AN INCREASE IN NEW USA MILITARY INVOLVEMENT IN OTHER COUNTRIES. Pay attention to Israel and Palestine, Russia and the middle east in general. I predict this.

I want to make a prediction that this election will feature the largest young voter turnout in America's history.

GulDukat
07-12-2016, 08:36 PM
Looks like some Sanders supporters are planning a "fart in" at the convention.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/dem-primaries/287472-sanders-delegates-to-hold-fart-in-protest-at-convention

GulDukat
07-12-2016, 08:50 PM
Check out Richard Nixon's 1968 ad, where he promises to return "order." Trump could use the same ad this year. Pretty awesome music though.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=swyFqRB3dxY

implanted_microchip
07-12-2016, 09:17 PM
Looks like some Sanders supporters are planning a "fart in" at the convention.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/dem-primaries/287472-sanders-delegates-to-hold-fart-in-protest-at-convention
It's like people on the left are just dead-fucking-set on proving they're no smarter or mature than anybody on the right. I want to get off 2016 presidential election's wild ride.

And I don't see the youth turnout beating Obama's '08 showing and even that was a step down from what some projected. Simply put, everyone hyped Sanders up as "the Millenial candidate!" and what happened in the primaries? They wouldn't fucking vote. Hashtag activism is at an all-time high and that entire crowd seems to feel that's all they have to do. Young female turnout may increase, but I doubt Millenial voter turnout will really be anything to surprise anyone.

tony.parente
07-13-2016, 02:08 AM
Simply put, everyone hyped Sanders up as "the Millenial candidate!" and what happened in the primaries? They wouldn't fucking vote. Hashtag activism is at an all-time high and that entire crowd seems to feel that's all they have to do.
This is why I want to just jump into a river with concrete shoes.

implanted_microchip
07-13-2016, 10:55 AM
This is why I want to just jump into a river with concrete shoes.
It's extremely annoying but, historically, isn't particularly anything new. When I was a teenager I got to go on a trip to my state capitol and several Republicans spent our meetings simply asking why they should even care what we think, since we never vote. This led to the circular "we don't vote because you never seem to represent us" and "we don't represent you since you don't vote" song and dance. Ultimately I think the majority of people value their vote once they've lost out on something because of not using it -- a lot of the 18-25 group that failed to vote in the primaries this go around will likely vote more next time because of the results.

It's very shitty and unfortunate but our education system is garbage, government is half a year of a class for kids not in AP programs and the AP government programs are really what normal government should be. We don't prioritize teaching chidren or young adults the importance of being a member of their community and engaging with the process of voting and because of that it's low on their value systems. Someone has to break that cycle and it only makes sense that the real responsibility lies with adults who have influence over things since they have enough perspective and experience to know the value of these things and you can't really fault young people for not having the same. A lot of young people are the first to get fired up but don't ever know what to do with that, and few people are helping. My school was lucky enough to have a principal that set aside a day for everybody to preregister to vote -- that should be a standard practice, not a privileged exception.

Deepvoid
07-13-2016, 11:57 AM
Bernie supporters can vote third party all they want but they can't whine if Trump sneaks by Hillary as a result of third party candidates getting more votes than anticipated.
Each vote has a consequence. Sometimes you end up voting for the candidate you really like. Sometimes you also need to vote strategically to make sure one candidate doesn't win.

Most of the people in Quebec voted strategically in the last general election in Canada simply to make sure the Conservatives wouldn't win. I know people who want Quebec's independence, who ended up voting for the Liberals instead of the Bloc Quebecois (pro-sovereignty party).

I you truly don't care about Trump getting elected then vote with your heart. However, if it bothers you the slightest, then your vote should automatically go to Hillary.

aggroculture
07-13-2016, 12:12 PM
Almost every day I see articles saying the same thing: "ho ho ho, the GOP is collapsing because Trump." This false sense of security is infuriating. It's what will lead directly to a Trump victory. The other day I met some dudes, liberals, who were like "blah blah electoral college there's no way Trump can win this election." And this is a few weeks after Brexit, where everyone was "la la la we got this." We didn't have this at all. The extreme right destroyed the liberal vote.
And this entirely baffling to me confidence that Trump has no chance confuses the hell out of me. Republicans run this country: 31 states out of 50. They got the house, the senate, they're stalling the supreme court; they're taking over and dismantling universities; Pat McCrory just signed a law saying police bodycam footage will not be public domain. Police are involved in a slow motion genocide against black people. Republicans are stomping all over this country with glee, and democrats are like "look, the GOP is imploding, we're winning!." It's like they're living in a bizarro world or Charlie Sheen's mind. I have no idea what's going on, but the left are in some serious denial.

implanted_microchip
07-13-2016, 12:25 PM
Almost every day I see articles saying the same thing: "ho ho ho, the GOP is collapsing because Trump." This false sense of security is infuriating. It's what will lead directly to a Trump victory. The other day I met some dudes, liberals, who were like "blah blah electoral college there's no way Trump can win this election." And this is a few weeks after Brexit, where everyone was "la la la we got this." We didn't have this at all. The extreme right destroyed the liberal vote.
And this entirely baffling to me confidence that Trump has no chance confuses the hell out of me. Republicans run this country: 31 states out of 50. They got the house, the senate, they're stalling the supreme court; they're taking over and dismantling universities; Pat McCrory just signed a law saying police bodycam footage will not be public domain. Police are involved in a slow motion genocide against black people. Republicans are stomping all over this country with glee, and democrats are like "look, the GOP is imploding, we're winning!." It's like they're living in a bizarro world or Charlie Sheen's mind. I have no idea what's going on, but the left are in some serious denial.

I've believed for a while that the biggest reason Trump could win would be Democrats being over-confident and a major terrorist attack happening in the US close to November. One can't really be predicted or easily prevented but the other can. Republicans themselves were over-confident he couldn't be the nominee for ages and look what happened. His greatest strength has been, this whole time IMO, the fact that his competition has underestimated him constantly.

Now actual Democratic politicians seem to be taking him very seriously -- Bernie and Hillary both have spent a lot of time talking about how dangerous he is and I'm sure that'll be a major focus for the entire race from here on out, with pretty much an all-star gangbang of Democratic leaders getting in on the action, but voters themselves live in a bubble now of social media where they just can't believe anybody could ever support somebody like Trump and feel "secure" that he'd never win. All i have to do is drive around in traffic here in Florida for all of five minutes and I'll see a dozen TRUMP stickers on the backs of truck windows. But there's a lot of places where I think those people aren't half as vocal and a lot of folks in this country will likely assume "Gee, I never see anyone who supports him; it can't happen!" and then they won't vote.

Democrats often operate on a mistaken sense of "no one can ever be that stupid, though" rhetoric that always fails. I've really enjoyed Real Time with Bill Maher lately simply because he constantly gets onto people for behaving as if Trump has no chance and always reiterates the fact that that attitude is exactly why he could win. Anybody who doesn't want him in the White House should bare minimum go and vote Democrat this November and if they don't and he wins, it's people like them that are why.

aggroculture
07-13-2016, 12:37 PM
Democrats often operate on a mistaken sense of "no one can ever be that stupid, though" rhetoric that always fails.

Yep. I've been seeing various articles lately talking about how elitist, and disconnected from the working class, liberal politicians have become, and I believe that's what happened in the UK. Middle-class educated leftists simply "can't believe" people think those things, have those grievances, and vote that way. The right has its ear to the ground and right now seems much better at listening to and intepreting (and creating) popular resentment on a variety of cultural and socio-economic faultlines and harvesting it for votes. I think what we're seeing now is the left in deep crisis and I just don't know how you translate the anger and outrage and constructive desire to make a fairer, better, less violent and oppressive world, of Bernie's movement and BLM and Occupy into actual political power.

Jinsai
07-13-2016, 12:59 PM
The reason people think it's impossible for Trump to win is because the average person puts too much faith in the intelligence of the average voter.

Your Name Here
07-13-2016, 01:02 PM
...............

allegro
07-13-2016, 01:09 PM
Yep. I've been seeing various articles lately talking about how elitist, and disconnected from the working class, liberal politicians have become, and I believe that's what happened in the UK. Middle-class educated leftists simply "can't believe" people think those things, have those grievances, and vote that way. The right has its ear to the ground and right now seems much better at listening to and intepreting (and creating) popular resentment on a variety of cultural and socio-economic faultlines and harvesting it for votes. I think what we're seeing now is the left in deep crisis and I just don't know how you translate the anger and outrage and constructive desire to make a fairer, better, less violent and oppressive world, of Bernie's movement and BLM and Occupy into actual political power.

I don't think you can really compare the U.K. to the U.S. with elections, they may seem the same but it's not really the same; the U.S.' vote is divided, pretty much, along race lines; pretty much ALL of the South was DEMOCRAT until Lyndon Johnson and the Civil Rights Movement, then those anti-segregation Dems shifted to the Republican side. But many of those Red states contain LOTS OF MINORITIES, so - theoretically - if those minorities actually VOTED (which they historically tend not to do very much), the Dems would always win no matter what. It's why Romney lost, it's why Trump is predicted to lose: minority vote. Which is why Trump is predicted to lose: minority vote.

Universities and Republicans, that's a funny one because, as you well know, Universities and Colleges (as Mantra and I have discussed here on numerous occasions) are no longer primarily institutions of education but are profit-generating entities with people at the top earning over $500,000 per year plus bonuses, with a huge amount of the college money coming from Federal and State college loans; and pretty much everybody knows this all happened because once the universities and colleges figured out that they had guaranteed annual money arriving, they pushed the money to the top for themselves and left a little for the staff and students (hence why the teachers are T.A.s and Adjuncts), and of course this model would be fully supported by Republicans but it's up to VOTERS to do something about it, and GET RID OF THAT GLUT AT THE TOP, fire all those fucking Trustees and Board Presidents making a half a million per year and more, and give teachers more money, etc. (This, of course, applies to public institutions, only; private institutions have always been free to do whatever they want, within the limitations imposed by Federal loans.)

Regarding liberal politicians in Congress and the disconnect from the working class, that's been happening for a long long time because most of the members of Congress are RICH. Very very rich. If they weren't when they went in, they are once they get there. And they often forget who they represent, because they are often more worried about raising the necessary funds to win the next elections (obsessed). It's all about money. People think this is a new thing, really, but it's not. I found a few quotes for a friend dating back to Roosevelt complaining about having to raise money for elections, and even back to the 1800s. Money money money, which just further separates politicians from their middle and lower class base. I think this is really changing due to the virtual disappearance of the middle class, and more and more demand for "social" programs and the "socialist" attitude of progressives who push the liberals into a more equitable distribution of resources.

The whole reason why the Republicans are now in control of Congress (after several terms of the Dems being in control of Congress) is because the Democrats simply DIDN'T VOTE AS MUCH AS THE REPUBLICANS. It's the Dems' own fault. The Tea Party may have spent more money, but as we saw in the Eric Cantor election in Virginia, that don't mean shit; he lost after spending millions to a guy who spent less than $200,000. Trump won the Republican Primary after spending hardly anything and using his Twitter feed and his Big Mouth to garner a shitload of media attention.

But, yes, it ain't over until it's over, as we saw IN THE BUSH V. GORE ELECTION. GET THE FUCK OUT THERE AND VOTE. I don't care what fucking state you are in, GO REGISTER, and VOTE. Lazy = if you didn't vote, TRUMP IS YOUR FUCKING FAULT, TOO.

(Although, Cruz would have been a lot worse, LOL, now if only we can get him out of Congress.)

aggroculture
07-13-2016, 01:20 PM
Last night I watched Chomsky's The Requiem for the American Dream (on Netflix): depressing and informative on how money and rich people have configured things to their benefit from the framers onwards.

But explain then: how did GWB win? If GWB won, why can't Trump? Are minorities more engaged now than in 2000 or 2010 mid-term?

implanted_microchip
07-13-2016, 01:25 PM
Even if someone thinks it's impossible for Trump to win, it's better for him to lose by as wide a margin as possible. He'll go away; his supporters won't. If he were to get an abysmally low amount of votes, that could really help discourage that entire alt-right movement in this country. If it's close, it'll only make those people all the more fervent and we'll see the GOP likely try and band around it as much as possible because it'll seem like "the most likely path to victory." I'd take an old school, country club Republican any day over the Trumps of the world.

allegro
07-13-2016, 01:28 PM
But explain then: how did GWB win? If GWB won, why can't Trump? Are minorities more engaged now than in 2000 or 2010 mid-term?
GWB v. Gore was a very close call, but Gore didn't manage to win in his own state of Tennessee; for some reason, Bush galvanized voters in the South, and across the country, so he garnered more Electoral College votes than Gore, and this caused Gore a lot of problems, it's why Obama won over Clinton in '08 even though, if you count Michigan (who didn't have Obama on the ballot), Clinton won the popular vote. Minorities didn't like Gore so they didn't vote. Look at the Gore/Bush Electoral College map; Bush killed Gore with Electoral College votes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2000). But Gore won the popular vote.

But, see, Gore got 266 Electoral votes; Bush got 271. FIVE different. Had Gore won his own state of Tennessee, with ELEVEN Electoral votes? Yeah ...

Now, let's look at the 2008 Presidential Election, Obama vs. McCain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008) ...

Look at the difference between THOSE electoral votes, where voters were much more galvanized to get to the pols.

Colorado, New Mexico and Nevada have gone "Purple" since the Bush / Gore election. Pennsylvania and Ohio voted for Bush.

This year in PA, 892,702 voted for Trump, 918,689 voted for Clinton.

Ohio is more dicey: 727,585 voted for Trump, 679,266 voted for Clinton.

While lots more voters tend to show up for general elections, who knows.

Sarah K
07-13-2016, 01:39 PM
I'm still reading opinions of people on facebook saying that Bernie is going to drop a bombshell about fraud while he is speaking at the convention, and he could end up walking away with the nomination. The reason he endorsed Hillary is because if he gave out this information now, then it would give the Clintons time to cover it up.

Like, what world is this? I understand the disappointment. But he has decided to endorse her and move forward. He actually accomplished quite a bit. But it's time to face reality.

Your Name Here
07-13-2016, 01:41 PM
..................

Jinsai
07-13-2016, 01:44 PM
Also, Nader. It's almost important to remember what Nader did. If he had dropped out, Gore would have won by a landslide.

I'm wondering if Sanders' recent endorsement of Hillary will make Jill Stein cut back on her "Let's keep the bern going in the green party!" bullshit, but I think she was making a really shrewd and effective recruitment technique by beating him to the punch. I have such a love/hate relationship with the Green party, but I'm starting to lean towards hate here. We could have had Al "climate change actually matters guys!" Gore instead of George Bush Jr, but hey thanks a lot Green party. And now, we're looking at them wanting to hand it to Trump by hijacking Bernie Sanders supporters.

There's a time and a place guys... now's not the time.

allegro
07-13-2016, 01:51 PM
Also, Nader. It's almost important to remember what Nader did. If he had dropped out, Gore would have won by a landslide.
That's maybe true, I dunno. Nader only got 739,034 votes nationally and did not get one single Electoral vote. The theory is, in history, that if you can't manage to win your own state, you won't win the election. Them's the odds.

Bottom line is that the Green Party is interesting to people who are sick of the two-party system and all that, but the people who tend to vote Green (or Libertarian) are middle to upper middle class white voters whose votes probably ain't gonna matter two shits, anyway. And, as kleiner352 has pointed out, many of Bernie's supporters don't even VOTE so Jill can recruit them all she wants but she's gonna end up with a bunch of people who are all mouth and no votes.

implanted_microchip
07-13-2016, 02:11 PM
I'm still reading opinions of people on facebook saying that Bernie is going to drop a bombshell about fraud while he is speaking at the convention, and he could end up walking away with the nomination. The reason he endorsed Hillary is because if he gave out this information now, then it would give the Clintons time to cover it up.

Like, what world is this? I understand the disappointment. But he has decided to endorse her and move forward. He actually accomplished quite a bit. But it's time to face reality.

There's also been people actually claiming that the Clinton's are threatening the lives of his grandchildren to make him endorse. I wish I wasn't being serious when I say this.

Because, y'know, him saying time and again that he'd support whoever the Democratic nominee is and making that clear over and over and over again just doesn't mean anything and getting the DNC to adopt 15 dollar minimum wage in the party platform and getting Hillary to support the debt-free college ideas and include a public option in his health care platform -- those things aren't "real accomplishments" or anything, right?

It's so weird to me. Like, they got a lot of things done -- at a certain point people need to realistically be proud of their achievements and know when it's time to hang it up. Hillary's platform is way further left now and the DNC in general is, and it got a lot of things into the general dialogue that likely wouldn't have come up otherwise. I think Sanders did some cool shit in all of those regards, but, good Christ the supporters of his that are now full-on conspiracy theorists talking like they're the reason every time I go to buy tin foil, it's sold out, is just embarrassing and damages the entire image of his campaign. They've been doing it for months and now it's still on-going. It's bananas.

I just can't stand watching people that are supposed to be the "progressive of the progressives" literally doing all the shit conservative media has done for 30 years towards the Clinton's now. It's ridiculous. Say what you want about people like Roger Ailes and Fox News, but, wow, propaganda really does have an impact.

Swykk
07-13-2016, 02:17 PM
Yeah, I am passionate and all, probably to a fault, but the level of denial is reaching conspiracy theory levels with the Internet Bernie-Or-Busters.

I have largely avoided reading anything crazy since yesterday so glad I missed out on the threatening of grandchildren shit. Fuck's sake.

I hope people here and in general understand I unquestionably care way too much and I tend to make mistakes due to it.

Sarah K
07-13-2016, 02:21 PM
Hahaha. On the convo I was talking about, someone mentioned the threatening his grandchildren thing, but I thought that was just an attempt at a "joke". Jeez.

Your Name Here
07-13-2016, 02:31 PM
...............

implanted_microchip
07-13-2016, 02:31 PM
Yeah, I am passionate and all, probably to a fault, but the level of denial is reaching conspiracy theory levels with the Internet Bernie-Or-Busters.

I have largely avoided reading anything crazy since yesterday so glad I missed out on the threatening of grandchildren shit. Fuck's sake.

Yeah, those kinds of people have been more and more vocal for months now and it's why so many people have had such a push-back against Sanders fans in general. It just gets exhausting when you have people wearing the thinnest of veils as they push conspiracy theories and just general anti-Clinton rhetoric rather than pro-Sanders rhetoric, which is what the internet's been coated in for a while now. It's just awful. They have been insanely vocal for a long time and reasonable, average people have been drowned out completely by them. Then you have someone like Jill Stein just doing all she can to capitalize off of that and Trump even pandering to it and it's just stomach-churning.

Half of why I stopped telling people I voted for him was because it hit a point where every time I did, I'd get "that look" and have to explain that I wasn't among that crowd. The younger you are the more likely I think you are to run into it, too. I had a group of unregistered voters who were all 18-22 flat-out yell at me at a party a couple months back when the question of "Who are you voting for?" came up and I said "Hillary," because I knew she'd be the nominee by then and the Florida primary was over and done. I then had to explain to them the entire process of primaries. It was numbing at best.

It's really frustrating because I think Bernie's supporters could do so fucking much to get really progressive, grassroots Democratic campaigns going all across the country in local and state-level governments, and doing that is exactly what could lead to further-left candidates being increasingly more prevalent in Congress and more viable in presidential elections, and instead there's people trying to act like some crazy gun-to-his-grandkids-heads-conspiracy is going on. The thought that there are people who find it easier to believe that some grandiose third act of a Lethal Weapon movie plot is at work rather than "the guy did what he said he'd do months ago like a rational adult" is just insane to me.

I really would love to see all the college-age kids Bernie got so fired up going out and getting involved in local government and forging careers in politics that would lead to people like Sanders or Warren being commonplace in the House and Senate rather than minorities, but that isn't what I've seen happen so far. It seems far more about "having an identity" than about actually doing anything for most of them and it's just ridiculous.

Jinsai
07-13-2016, 04:16 PM
Hahaha. On the convo I was talking about, someone mentioned the threatening his grandchildren thing, but I thought that was just an attempt at a "joke". Jeez.

Nothing is too far fetched for conspiracy theorists. I have a friend who has truly jumped into the conspiracy rabbit hole... to the point where he seems to be implying that the Orlando shooting didn't happen, and all the people mourning were paid "crisis actors." He's at the point where any tragic event is obviously a smokescreen for something much bigger, that the puppet masters have us all fooled, and don't even get started about 9/11 unless you want to get a bunch of links to twenty or so hours of easily debunked madness.

regarding the presidential race... I had an interesting (if disturbing) discussion about this upcoming election with someone recently, and his take-away was that we really couldn't trust the polls this time around. On one hand, you have all the Bernie-or-bust people, many of whom may be bluffing and when they go into the voting booth will secretly be voting for Clinton and then tell everyone they didn't. Then, on the other hand, you have all the people who really love Trump's non-too-subtle appeal to people's bigotry and xenophobia... All the people out there who secretly love his projections of racism, who are legitimately bated by the scaremongering. These people don't want to admit that they love that shit, because it will expose them and confirm the suspicions of people who think they're bigots.

And the latter group is probably a lot larger.

aggroculture
07-14-2016, 01:31 PM
I wonder why RBG backed down: my guess is that her comments were just ammunition for Trump and the GOP to delegitimize her authority.

Jinsai
07-14-2016, 02:15 PM
Mike Pence is officially Trump's running mate.

Your Name Here
07-14-2016, 04:06 PM
...................

Frozen Beach
07-14-2016, 06:04 PM
https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/videos/10157309144940725/ (https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/videos/10157309144940725/)
This is one of the most absurd things I've ever seen.

Dryalex12
07-14-2016, 06:15 PM
Mike Pence is officially Trump's running mate.


And there goes the rest of my braincells

Swykk
07-14-2016, 06:29 PM
This is real bad. Pence is a tea party homophobic asshole who has been ruining education ever since taking over for his asshole mentor, Mitch Daniels. He also hates unions.
He is reviled here in the Northwest portion of Indiana. There are more anti Pence signs around than any other political signs.

Your Name Here
07-14-2016, 06:49 PM
................

implanted_microchip
07-15-2016, 12:09 AM
https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/videos/10157309144940725/ (https://www.facebook.com/DonaldTrump/videos/10157309144940725/)
This is one of the most absurd things I've ever seen.

Oh, what a time to be alive

And just think, everybody -- Obama was criticized for going on late night TV because it wasn't seen as presidential.

Harry Seaward
07-15-2016, 02:05 AM
I had been assuming that Trump would be picking somebody for Vice President who is a little more centrist and level-headed and moderate, in an attempt to maybe corral some directionless Sanders supporters and gain more attention from centrist voters he might not otherwise have. Basically, I was imagining he would team up with somebody who balances him out. So you can imagine my shock when the announcement came that Trump had chosen Mike Pence, who in the year 2000 stated that Congress should oppose an effort to recognize homosexuals as a minority who might protected by anti-discrimination laws. A man who called for the federal government to ensure that federal funds wouldn't be given to organizations that support homosexuality, or as he states it, "organizations that celebrate and encourage the types of behaviors that facilitate the spreading of the HIV virus." A man who instead would prefer federal funds go towards conversion therapy programs. A man who stated that same-sex marriage would bring upon societal collapse. A man who said that upholding Obamacare was similar to September 11. Honestly, I've never even heard of this dude before. All of the things I listed were from his informationally sparse Wikipedia page. I really can't imagine what other hateful, batshit crazy shit he's said and done in his short 15 year political career.

I really don't know what the Trump camp is thinking with this choice. I can't possibly imagine what he has to gain from Pence. Like I said before, it would have been a very smart and well-calculated move to choose somebody who's more centrist. It may have possibly worked to win him more votes from people who wouldn't normally vote for Trump, but really don't want HRC. He already has the venomous, outrageously-far-right, fascist Tea Party vote. How could this possibly do anything other than hurt him? Can anybody explain to me what Pence could possibly bring to the table that Trump didn't already have taken care of before?

Harry Seaward
07-15-2016, 03:03 AM
On a slightly tangential but mostly unrelated note - how long do you guys think it will be before we begin to see any, let alone the majority of, politicians who are admittedly atheist? I really don't understand how it's so completely acceptable to even casual 'agnostics' that in America we have Congressmen, Presidents, and Presidential candidates who not only believe in God, but tout their belief as a major part of their platform.

It's absolutely, mind-bogglingly, unfathomably insane to me. As an example, George Bush literally told the American public that God was speaking to him. The President of the United States of America told us that he heard the voice of an eternal being, the creator of reality, the deity whose history dates back a whopping 2,000 years, sourced from a book written by desert-dwelling Egyptians and Jews. God. It's hard to even type this, because it's hard to even comprehend that this is something that the American people are absolutely okay with hearing from the leader of their country, the most powerful man alive.

Granted, I don't know about Bush specifically, but it's almost certain that many of them are faking their beliefs because they wouldn't stand a chance otherwise. I legitimately think that Barack Obama is an atheist, or a confused agnostic at best, but a black man who also happens to be a godless immoral heathen ain't gettin' no votes for the Presidency.

All of this makes it hard for me to vote for basically *any* politicians. I don't think a belief in God is an acceptable trait for a head of state to have. It's illogical, childish, and it forces you to ask if they're smart and emotionally stable enough to handle the job of high-level leadership. Would you trust or vote for a President or Congressman who honestly believes in Santa Claus? Who bows their head and holds hand with their family on December 24th while silently praying that Santa Claus brings them joy and peace and exciting presents in the morning (after entering the house through the chimney and eating the milk and cookies left out for Him?) A person who sets aside 2 hours every Sunday to go heap praise upon Santa Claus, thank Him for the enjoyments of life, and ask Him for advice on how to proceed with a war in Iraq, or whether or not to allow life-saving experimentation based on stem cells, or whether to allow the family of a brain-dead woman in a permanent vegetative state to finally be able to let her die.

I don't know when the change will happen. All over the world, people are moving towards lack of belief, but I think it will take much longer for atheist politicians to become the norm.

(I wrote this post over the span of about an hour, stopping to do other stuff randomly in between. Plus I'm kinda tired and out of it. So forgive me if it doesn't make a ton of sense, or is a bit rambling or meandering or without a distinct exact point. Shrug.)

implanted_microchip
07-15-2016, 04:07 PM
http://www.businessinsider.com/mike-pence-seems-to-have-history-of-opposing-gay-rights-2015-3

Pence was against Don't Ask, Don't Tell because it wasn't homophobic enough. Oh boy.

This feels like a borderline gift to Democrats. LGBT rights is one of the things that gets liberals really passionate, and acceptance of LGBT people has risen only more and more over the years. It's a subject we'll have been on the right side of history on when all is said and done and one of Trump's only appeals to more socially liberal people was his general indifference on the topic -- that just got obliterated with this ticket. If the Clinton campaign doesn't hit Trump hard for it, they'll be making an enormous mistake -- that subject is an easy win at this point, thankfully.

onthewall2983
07-15-2016, 04:49 PM
I'm sure they will. Hillary didn't join that Pride parade for nothing.

allegro
07-15-2016, 05:07 PM
http://www.businessinsider.com/mike-pence-seems-to-have-history-of-opposing-gay-rights-2015-3

Pence was against Don't Ask, Don't Tell because it wasn't homophobic enough. Oh boy.

This feels like a borderline gift to Democrats. LGBT rights is one of the things that gets liberals really passionate, and acceptance of LGBT people has risen only more and more over the years. It's a subject we'll have been on the right side of history on when all is said and done and one of Trump's only appeals to more socially liberal people was his general indifference on the topic -- that just got obliterated with this ticket. If the Clinton campaign doesn't hit Trump hard for it, they'll be making an enormous mistake -- that subject is an easy win at this point, thankfully.

He is a conservative religious nut (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/16/us/politics/mike-pence-history.html), the male version of Sarah Palin.

Frozen Beach
07-16-2016, 04:21 AM
Pence was also against Trump's Muslim ban, but now he apparently isn't.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/15/politics/mike-pence-donald-trump-muslim-ban/

GulDukat
07-16-2016, 08:00 AM
How about the Trump/Pence logo?

GulDukat
07-16-2016, 08:05 AM
GWB v. Gore was a very close call, but Gore didn't manage to win in his own state of Tennessee; for some reason, Bush galvanized voters in the South, and across the country, so he garnered more Electoral College votes than Gore, and this caused Gore a lot of problems, it's why Obama won over Clinton in '08 even though, if you count Michigan (who didn't have Obama on the ballot), Clinton won the popular vote. Minorities didn't like Gore so they didn't vote. Look at the Gore/Bush Electoral College map; Bush killed Gore with Electoral College votes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2000). But Gore won the popular vote.

But, see, Gore got 266 Electoral votes; Bush got 271. FIVE different. Had Gore won his own state of Tennessee, with ELEVEN Electoral votes? Yeah ...

Now, let's look at the 2008 Presidential Election, Obama vs. McCain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_2008) ...

Look at the difference between THOSE electoral votes, where voters were much more galvanized to get to the pols.

Colorado, New Mexico and Nevada have gone "Purple" since the Bush / Gore election. Pennsylvania and Ohio voted for Bush.

This year in PA, 892,702 voted for Trump, 918,689 voted for Clinton.

Ohio is more dicey: 727,585 voted for Trump, 679,266 voted for Clinton.

While lots more voters tend to show up for general elections, who knows.

If Florida hadn't been stolen, i.e., throwing out thousands of ballots that should gone to Gore, we would have avoided the Bush administration. I'm not a conspiracy nut, but I do believe Gore won that election. Thank you, Supreme Court and Jeb, the brother-govener for eight years of that guy.

Jinsai
07-16-2016, 10:33 AM
and you've got to take into account the votes that went to Sanders which would otherwise have gone to Hillary... the republican turnout in Ohio was odd, with Kasich actually carrying that state. While the full turnout for Republicans absolutely trounces the Democratic turnout there, I don't see how a conservative voter base that wanted Kasich will easily translate into support for Trump.

Swykk
07-16-2016, 11:10 AM
http://www.businessinsider.com/mike-pence-seems-to-have-history-of-opposing-gay-rights-2015-3

Pence was against Don't Ask, Don't Tell because it wasn't homophobic enough. Oh boy.

This feels like a borderline gift to Democrats. LGBT rights is one of the things that gets liberals really passionate, and acceptance of LGBT people has risen only more and more over the years. It's a subject we'll have been on the right side of history on when all is said and done and one of Trump's only appeals to more socially liberal people was his general indifference on the topic -- that just got obliterated with this ticket. If the Clinton campaign doesn't hit Trump hard for it, they'll be making an enormous mistake -- that subject is an easy win at this point, thankfully.

It's odd that Trump didn't select someone who would theoretically get him a different piece of the right wing voters. Reports are stating that the Trump brood convinced him that Pence was the right pick.

I'd like to think this'll help Hillary but my hope for anything is at an all time low.

At least Pence will be leaving Indiana (if my understanding of running for VP is correct). It might've been the only move Pence had left. He survived the RFRA nonsense because lots of Indiana sucks but once he fucked over the unions, he was all but done here.

Louie_Cypher
07-16-2016, 11:58 AM
now when i see that logo all I can think, "making ameria enjoy the go" or making america go comando"
-louie

allegro
07-16-2016, 11:59 AM
now when i see that logo all I can think, "making ameria enjoy the go" or making america go comando"
-louie
Yeah, I've been getting Cornholio email from my friends

I NEED TP FOR MY BUNGHOLE!!

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/147/742/840.png

Swykk
07-16-2016, 12:14 PM
I threw that up on my Facebook last night. It's great.

implanted_microchip
07-16-2016, 12:50 PM
My favorite thing about the logo is that it was unveiled in a really tiny, low quality jpeg image in 2016. That encapsulates so much of Trump to me.

Swykk
07-17-2016, 12:25 PM
Hillary wants to pass an amendment to overturn CU. Good deal if that actually happens.

Edit: Sarcasm doesn't transfer as well on the internet so let me be clear and say I do not think it'll actually happen.

allegro
07-17-2016, 12:47 PM
Hillary wants to pass an amendment to overturn [the SCOTUS Citizens United decision]. Good deal if that actually happens.
I sincerely doubt that this Congress will pass it. But it makes her look more Progressive to try.

I'd be WAY more impressed if she tried to get them to pass something outlawing lobbying.

hellospaceboy
07-17-2016, 03:49 PM
On a slightly tangential but mostly unrelated note - how long do you guys think it will be before we begin to see any, let alone the majority of, politicians who are admittedly atheist?

While I think it's fine for anyone (including politicians) to be religious, it is a great question. It's okay to be a Christian and lead the country, but...
(and it's a BIG but!)

The alarming thing is when legislators hold outrageous evangelical views, like that the Earth is 6000 years old, evolution is not based on science, there is no man-made global warming, etc. Women's job is to be mothers and birth control is against God's will. Or, as you said, when a politician makes decisions based on what God tells him/her to do. THAT is fucked up!

I often say that the next breakthrough will be the atheist president. Now people can already wrap their heads around a woman, or even a non-Christian Jew holding the position, but I personally can't wait for the day when someone will be an open and out atheist! (I think there are several closeted atheists in government, but they probably think/know that it's a career killer right now.

implanted_microchip
07-17-2016, 05:44 PM
While I think it's fine for anyone (including politicians) to be religious, it is a great question. It's okay to be a Christian and lead the country, but...
(and it's a BIG but!)

The alarming thing is when legislators hold outrageous evangelical views, like that the Earth is 6000 years old, evolution is not based on science, there is no man-made global warming, etc. Women's job is to be mothers and birth control is against God's will. Or, as you said, when a politician makes decisions based on what God tells him/her to do. THAT is fucked up!

I often say that the next breakthrough will be the atheist president. Now people can already wrap their heads around a woman, or even a non-Christian Jew holding the position, but I personally can't wait for the day when someone will be an open and out atheist! (I think there are several closeted atheists in government, but they probably think/know that it's a career killer right now.

I think it could and likely will happen within the next few presidencies, for sure. Bernie openly said he's non-religious and it never seemed like an issue at all when it came to his support. IIRC he even polled quite well among a lot of religious folks. An openly non-Christian POTUS in general, even if it was just Jewish would be pretty major and from then on I think it'd really stop being much of an issue whatsoever, other than in deeply red state regions. We're moving fast away from the era where the Huckabees and Cruz's of the world could do particularly well and I'm happy -- none of those people and begin to embody what being a person of faith is supposed to mean and are pure snake oil salesmen through and through, anyway.

DigitalChaos
07-17-2016, 05:49 PM
Hillary wants to pass an amendment to overturn CU. Good deal if that actually happens.

People are dumb as shit if they have any faith in that. Especially after Obama talked a big game on campaign finance but turned a 180 and then further fucked things through law after he got in. Obama had way more credibility than Hillary.

Also, Hillary is one of the strongest examples of why we need reform. Isn't she outspending Trump like 10 fold right now?

implanted_microchip
07-17-2016, 07:06 PM
So here are all the primetime speakers for the RNC

http://fox8.com/2016/07/17/republican-national-convention-program-schedule-announced/

I feel like screaming ceaselessly

onthewall2983
07-17-2016, 07:08 PM
I may be reiterating this, but seeing some members of my family wholly embrace Trump is almost making me have a crisis of conscience, as I truly feel he embodies some the antithesis of the basic things I was raised to believe. It doesn't make me love them any less, but it pisses me off that this has happened.

Swykk
07-17-2016, 07:10 PM
Bill Maher's coverage (and possibly Daily Show's) is as close as I'll get to watching that.
onthewall2983 Yeah, my grandparents are voting for Trump. They're nuts.

Harry Seaward
07-17-2016, 07:42 PM
At least Pence will be leaving Indiana (if my understanding of running for VP is correct)

I don't know that there's any law saying you can't do both at once. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but Sarah Palin was Governor of Alaska during her entire VP run and continued as Governor until a year after McCain lost the election.

Swykk
07-17-2016, 08:05 PM
Could've just been wishful thinking.

hellospaceboy
07-17-2016, 08:10 PM
I don't know that there's any law saying you can't do both at once. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but Sarah Palin was Governor of Alaska during her entire VP run and continued as Governor until a year after McCain lost the election.
I knew I read this somewhere, and a quick google search gave me this answer as to why Pence has to drop out as governor:
"Indiana law does not allow a candidate’s name to appear on both the gubernatorial ballot and vice presidential ballot."

Dryalex12
07-17-2016, 09:01 PM
I knew I read this somewhere, and a quick google search gave me this answer as to why Pence has to drop out as governor:
"Indiana law does not allow a candidate’s name to appear on both the gubernatorial ballot and vice presidential ballot."

gubernatorial....
gubernatorial
gubernatorial

Jinsai
07-18-2016, 01:07 AM
I often say that the next breakthrough will be the atheist president.

There's still states that have laws on the books prohibiting atheists from running for public office. We've had atheist presidents, they even hinted at it, but of course couldn't spell it out clearly. It will be hundreds of years before it won't be a political suicide to admit it in a presidential bid.

hellospaceboy
07-18-2016, 07:41 AM
It will be hundreds of years before it won't be a political suicide to admit it in a presidential bid.

I'm a bit more optimistic than that. 10 years ago I couldn't have imagined a black president, and here we are. This year we had a self proclaimed socialist ALMOST get the nomination of one of the major parties. History is speeding up, and sometimes (not always) it's a good thing! :)

allegro
07-18-2016, 06:57 PM
I'm a bit more optimistic than that. 10 years ago I couldn't have imagined a black president, and here we are. This year we had a self proclaimed socialist ALMOST get the nomination of one of the major parties. History is speeding up, and sometimes (not always) it's a good thing! :)
But Bernie was a socialist who was meeting with the Pope and saying the Pope is a cool guy. Just a little more than 50 years ago, we barely nominated a Catholic president because people thought the Pope would really be running the country. During the 50s, we added "In God We Trust" to our money and "Under God" to our Pledge of Allegiance due to our fear of Communism. That ain't likely to change any time soon.

Remember, our black President is also half-white.

Khrz
07-18-2016, 07:17 PM
Well you can't have everything happening at once, the day you get a secular black socialist single woman proudly smoking cuban cigars isn't for tomorrow, sure... One step at a time... I'd say Sanders was socialist enough and Obama black enough to be meaningful all the same.

Those who wouldn't vote for "the black guy" weren't very aware of the white half, and I suspect those who voted for "the black guy" didn't either. In such instances you tend to get defined by what makes you stand out, not what makes you fit in...

onthewall2983
07-18-2016, 07:45 PM
https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13718654_10153592420025493_5684804252699041087_n.p ng?oh=e2fa490496a28a37ad954e68bd1f55bd&oe=57EBE401

GulDukat
07-18-2016, 08:30 PM
Watching Pat Smith, mother of one of the people killed at Benghazi. While I am deeply saddened by her loss, I am disgusted by the way she is being exploited by that tragedy.

allegro
07-18-2016, 08:37 PM
Those who wouldn't vote for "the black guy" weren't very aware of the white half, and I suspect those who voted for "the black guy" didn't either. In such instances you tend to get defined by what makes you stand out, not what makes you fit in...
Oh no, were all made VERY aware that he was raised by his white grandparents. That made him "white enough" for those on the fence, but still too black for the "just one drop" people. But a whole bunch of minorities got themselves to the pols to vote for Obama in '08 and '12.

However, re religion, 70% of Americans identify as Christian according to polls (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_the_United_States).

Mantra
07-18-2016, 08:58 PM
you couldn't pay me all the money in the world to be at the RNC protests right now.

that whole place looks like a big, tightly-wound death trap just waiting to erupt. they got all the amped up lefties, all the bitter anti-trump right wingers, a bunch of open carry wackos wandering around, all the cops on edge after all the recent shootings.

the cherry on top of it all was when i saw a video about the poke stops thrown into the mix, which just sent me into waves of insane laughter. this fucking country, man.

cashpiles (closed)
07-18-2016, 11:26 PM
http://digg.com/2016/full-interview-trump-pence-60-minutes


incredible interview with Trump and running mate Mike Pence on 60 Minutes. I have no doubt now that Trump will be the next President of The United States of America.

Some people think he's loony tunes... but he has strong leadership power and decisive ideas about what he wants to accomplish in his Presidency.

Don't let what's happening in France, Germany and Sweden happen to you guys.

DigitalChaos
07-19-2016, 12:59 AM
http://digg.com/2016/full-interview-trump-pence-60-minutes

omfg the last 90sec of that video had me and my wife in stitches.

But yes, the other 20min of the video... i can see a lot more voters attaching to what was on display there. I don't agree with it, but that's what a large number of people want... especially with the current geopolitical landscape.

DigitalChaos
07-19-2016, 01:11 AM
Wow, this was illuminating. I finally feel like I understand Trump's motivations and all the oddities of his campaign.

Inside The Fraternity Of Haters And Losers Who Drove Donald Trump To The GOP Nomination (https://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/how-the-haters-made-trump)

I'm now wondering if Hillary's primary selling point of "I'm not Trump" and the other anti-Trump campaign rhetoric is going to be what actually pushes him to victory.

Exocet
07-19-2016, 01:36 AM
Ignore the polls, they are useless, dont under estimate the Grey vote...this is what ive learnt from Brexit.

I see so much denial on the American left about all this...its worrying.

DigitalChaos
07-19-2016, 01:59 AM
you couldn't pay me all the money in the world to be at the RNC protests right now.

that whole place looks like a big, tightly-wound death trap just waiting to erupt. they got all the amped up lefties, all the bitter anti-trump right wingers, a bunch of open carry wackos wandering around, all the cops on edge after all the recent shootings.

the cherry on top of it all was when i saw a video about the poke stops thrown into the mix, which just sent me into waves of insane laughter. this fucking country, man.

the poke stops.. oh christ. they make everything hilarious. I have so many stories, but that's for another thread.

Another surreal aspect of the RNC situation is a gay Trump supporter who was a speaker; he had to wear a bullet proof vest to protect himself from the leftist protestors. Like... that's a factual sentence. Hello 2016

http://i.imgur.com/UfS38St.jpg





If you are like me, I was curious what he was speaking about, so I found a periscope recording of it: https://www.periscope.tv/w/1mrxmbdAeyWKy#

Is it true that 50% of gay men in the UK said they would vote conservative?

implanted_microchip
07-19-2016, 02:14 AM
I watched every last second of night 1 of the 2016 RNC.

I have never understood alcoholism more than in this moment. This country is fucked and it has earned it.

Exocet
07-19-2016, 02:29 AM
Is it true that 50% of gay men in the UK said they would vote conservative?

Probably...its the love of the strong man (or woman in some cases) and the feeling of safety.. Although the man in that photo with the bullet proof vest is Milo Yiannopolis who has become awful recently. He has gone so far to the right in a way im sure many Gay Men in the UK (and US) feel weird with.

allegro
07-19-2016, 04:06 AM
http://i.imgur.com/UfS38St.jpg


Wait ... that looks like Anderson Cooper

GulDukat
07-19-2016, 06:21 AM
Ripping off Michelle Obama?

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/melania-trump-michelle-obama-225793?cmpid=sf#ixzz4EpBu5zBr

aggroculture
07-19-2016, 08:21 AM
I thought it was an awful speech, boring and humorless.
And Trump coming out to Queen's We Are The Champions? Ugh. I'm sure Freddie Mercury was right there, in spirit, cheering on the spectacle of intolerance that is the GOP.

GulDukat
07-19-2016, 08:50 AM
"One in a million" by Guns N' Roses would be a much more fitting song for the Rebublicans to use.

Frozen Beach
07-19-2016, 08:57 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if that ripoff part of the speech was on purpose to orchestrate controversy for publicity. At this point, Donald Trump is the living embodiment of a troll.

GulDukat
07-19-2016, 09:00 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if that ripoff part of the speech was on purpose to orchestrate controversy for publicity. At this point, Donald Trump is the living embodiment of a troll.
All she had to do was say what a sweetheart and what a wonderful father and husband he is. I can't believe the Trump campaign let this happen.

implanted_microchip
07-19-2016, 09:18 AM
Don't think it was linked here, but there's a great New Yorker article about the guy who wrote The Art of the Deal that basically confirms any fears you ever had about Donald

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all

GulDukat
07-19-2016, 09:41 AM
Don't think it was linked here, but there's a great New Yorker article about the guy who wrote The Art of the Deal that basically confirms any fears you ever had about Donald

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/07/25/donald-trumps-ghostwriter-tells-all
Very interesting. Thanks for posting that.

aggroculture
07-19-2016, 10:07 AM
It's a great article.

People who plagiarize: my experience is that they're too stupid to know how easy it is to detect. That, and they don't have a clear idea of what plagiarism is. And/or they panic. Plagiarism is something that top journalists do too. It's baffling. In academia we use Turnitin, but all documents will eventually be put through a filtering system like this as a matter of course. Something like this should be built into Word.

DigitalChaos
07-19-2016, 01:27 PM
Probably...its the love of the strong man (or woman in some cases) and the feeling of safety.. Although the man in that photo with the bullet proof vest is Milo Yiannopolis who has become awful recently. He has gone so far to the right in a way im sure many Gay Men in the UK (and US) feel weird with.
Yeah, I only really discovered him in the last month. It wasn't long ago that he was quietly saying that he doesn't really want Trump to be president, despite being supportive of Trump as a general character/statement.

It's hard to tell whether the shit coming out of his mouth is something he actually believes, or if he is just saying it to be inflammatory and shocking. He absolutely gets off on going against any grain possible, so it seems like he doesn't have a solid ideology he follows. It's still fascinating to listen to him and see that he is resonating with a lot of other people, many who are gay. He is definitely able to say a lot of things without being immediately dismissed, unlike most GOP supporters.



Wait ... that looks like Anderson Cooper
lol, it kinda does at that angle.

skullboy0
07-19-2016, 01:33 PM
At this point, Donald Trump is the living embodiment of a troll.

Well, there is also the people who think Melania Rick Rolled everybody during the speech. (http://nymag.com/selectall/2016/07/did-melania-trump-rickroll-us-all-at-the-republican-national-convention.html)

“He will never, ever give you up. And, most importantly, he will never, ever let you down.”

implanted_microchip
07-19-2016, 01:54 PM
Well, there is also the people who think Melania Rick Rolled everybody during the speech. (http://nymag.com/selectall/2016/07/did-melania-trump-rickroll-us-all-at-the-republican-national-convention.html)

“He will never, ever give you up. And, most importantly, he will never, ever let you down.”
He has most certainly made a lot of us cry, though

DigitalChaos
07-19-2016, 02:32 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if that ripoff part of the speech was on purpose to orchestrate controversy for publicity. At this point, Donald Trump is the living embodiment of a troll.
who knows. it could easily be a large source of embarrassment for him too. But really, will it have ANY impact on the election? Nope! So it really is just a pointless distraction either way.

Frozen Beach
07-19-2016, 03:33 PM
This election just gets weirder and weirder
https://twitter.com/CNN/status/755475545048096768?s=09

aggroculture
07-19-2016, 04:07 PM
this is entertaining: http://blackbag.gawker.com/a-theory-donald-trumps-ex-campaign-manager-deliberatel-1783930502

Mantra
07-19-2016, 05:48 PM
Inside The Fraternity Of Haters And Losers Who Drove Donald Trump To The GOP Nomination (https://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/how-the-haters-made-trump)


I know this isn't the primary focus of this article, but the thing in the beginning where he talks about how Trump has been tweeted about him for years is so lame and childish.

There are a lot of things about Trump that worry me, but his tendency to hold vicious, petty grudges over the course of years is definitely one of the things that concerns me most. Threatening the Trump University judge is probably the best (worst?) example of this so far. The guy is incredibly sensitive and easily offended, and he just doesn't know how to let things go. Once he gets it into his head that a certain individual is his enemy, he won't move on. So it's kinda disconcerting to imagine a person with these qualities becoming the president of the country.

Mantra
07-19-2016, 05:55 PM
This election just gets weirder and weirder
https://twitter.com/CNN/status/755475545048096768?s=09

I don't even understand why they're trying to pretend that it wasn't ripped off. If it was just one or two lines sprinkled around, you could say it was a coincidence, but come on. This is multiple lines that are delivered in the same sequence. They should just be like "Oh, that was a modified practice speech that some intern threw together that accidentally got mixed in." Trying to pretend that it's not borrowed from the Michelle Obama speech only makes it look worse. Just fess up, make it look like an accident, and move on. How did these people even get their jobs?

cashpiles (closed)
07-19-2016, 06:41 PM
I don't even understand why they're trying to pretend that it wasn't ripped off. If it was just one or two lines sprinkled around, you could say it was a coincidence, but come on. This is multiple lines that are delivered in the same sequence. They should just be like "Oh, that was a modified practice speech that some intern threw together that accidentally got mixed in." Trying to pretend that it's not borrowed from the Michelle Obama speech only makes it look worse. Just fess up, make it look like an accident, and move on. How did these people even get their jobs?

fucking spin doctors....

But look at this:

TRUMP loves the USA. Trump has been fighting for the USA for years. He's the real deal. No doubt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCabT_O0YSM



My only worry is that he is old. If he has enough vitality, he will actually change things in America... not like politicians who are just all talk... fucking liars and snakes.

newmodel87
07-20-2016, 01:10 AM
I sincerely hope Trump and wins puts an end to political correctness and the all of the perpetual whining. I've been a Trump supporter for a while now.

I'm not sure what is worse: the embarrassingly biased media, social networking sites (etc.) that clearly favours the left and their fabricated stories about Trump that lack any real substance or the people who actually believe them. Google going as far as to manipulate search results is pathetic.

newmodel87
07-20-2016, 01:15 AM
I don't even understand why they're trying to pretend that it wasn't ripped off. If it was just one or two lines sprinkled around, you could say it was a coincidence, but come on. This is multiple lines that are delivered in the same sequence. They should just be like "Oh, that was a modified practice speech that some intern threw together that accidentally got mixed in." Trying to pretend that it's not borrowed from the Michelle Obama speech only makes it look worse. Just fess up, make it look like an accident, and move on. How did these people even get their jobs?

I really don't think it's a big deal.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/07/19/melania-trump-plagiarism-hillary-biden-barack-michelle/

(http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/07/19/melania-trump-plagiarism-hillary-biden-barack-michelle/)

My only worry is that he is old. If he has enough vitality, he will actually change things in America... not like politicians who are just all talk... fucking liars and snakes.

I'd rather take a chance on Trump. The country desperately needs change and with him not being a traditional politician, I think he has the actual potential to elicit change. At the very least he has got a great attitude and has a pretty incedible track record when it comes to winning.

Sallos
07-20-2016, 05:16 AM
the poke stops.. oh christ. they make everything hilarious. I have so many stories, but that's for another thread.

Another surreal aspect of the RNC situation is a gay Trump supporter who was a speaker; he had to wear a bullet proof vest to protect himself from the leftist protestors. Like... that's a factual sentence. Hello 2016

http://i.imgur.com/UfS38St.jpg





If you are like me, I was curious what he was speaking about, so I found a periscope recording of it: https://www.periscope.tv/w/1mrxmbdAeyWKy#

Is it true that 50% of gay men in the UK said they would vote conservative?

Milo Yiannopoulos has been an internet sensation forr quite a while now, i've known him for 2 years.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FvADt-mJ_o


I sincerely hope Trump and wins puts an end to political correctness and the all of the perpetual whining. I've been a Trump supporter for a while now.

I'm not sure what is worse: the embarrassingly biased media, social networking sites (etc.) that clearly favours the left and their fabricated stories about Trump that lack any real substance or the people who actually believe them. Google going as far as to manipulate search results is pathetic.

The only good thing about Trump winning and becoming president, is that SJW facists will go back in the closet, much like the religious nuts did when Obama took office. No more safe space nonsense, trigger warnings, celebrating weakness or mediocrity.

orestes
07-20-2016, 07:22 AM
LOL at people citing breitbart's website as a credible news source.

Swykk
07-20-2016, 08:58 AM
Also, fuck Milo Y in his smug sexist face. What a douche.

xmd 5a
07-20-2016, 09:07 AM
Also, fuck Milo Y in his smug sexist face. What a douche.

Dude's less than a step removed from being a literal neo-Nazi, revels in trying to destroy the lives of people his disagrees with about fucking video games (among other topics) and invents "controversy" whole-cloth to make a quick buck with shitty clickbait on his shitty website.

Seeing all his white supremacist stans cry about him getting kicked off Twitter has been quite cathartic.

allegro
07-20-2016, 09:40 AM
much like the religious nuts did when Obama took office.
Except that didn't happen here. Religious nuts are always in full force in the U.S. Did you miss the whole Kim Davis thing?

Deepvoid
07-20-2016, 09:47 AM
Yiannopoulos is a first class asshole. I fucking can't stand him. He needs to take a plane and head back to England but crash midway through the Atlantic Ocean. I couldn't even watch the NIN Spotting with him in the video.

Thank God he is banned from Twitter after he lead the racist comments and abuse of Leslie Jones.

hellospaceboy
07-20-2016, 09:58 AM
The last week or two of the Trump campaign shows that they lost control over their narrative... While he knew exactly how to play the primaries, the VP pick and the convention so far are poorly handled.

The fact that the news of his VP pick came with the rumor that he tried to back out of it the night before is very damaging, and it stuck and it was brought up on pretty much every news channel/site that reported on it. Also, there was no wind in the pick: the fact that he chose someone to help win over conservatives should be troubling to any republican right now. This is general election time, he should be working on winning the people in the middle, the undecided; the conservatives should be behind him already. And they're not.

And the Melania speech was meant to introduce her to the people, and now all we're talking about it plagiarism (rightfully so), it shows a great deal of incompetence. Again, I think the Trump campaign's distrust of how things are usually done caused this political misstep. If they stuck with the professionally written, fact checked and prepared speech, all would be fine, but nobody says no to rich people, and when Melania wanted to rewrite her speech with a friend they let her...

Here's the thing. 4 years ago, when the right was truly caught off guard by Romney losing, they did that "autopsy" to find out what went wrong. The answer was: the country's make up changed and the white men's vote is not enough anymore to put somebody into the white house. They need to appeal more to minority and women voters. And here they are, 4 years later, catering even more so to this white anger slice of America. The GOP platform is even more conservative that it's ever been (example: they brought up fighting gay marriage, but that's a culture war they already lost, since MOST americans accepted it and moved on already...) and the whole thing is a shitshow.

Hillary's only job at this point is not to trip or fuck up (no more Bill private meeting shit with investigators, wtf), it's really that simple, she just needs to go thorugh the next 3 and a half months without shitting herself on stage or having a stroke.

Mantra
07-20-2016, 10:09 AM
The only good thing about Trump winning and becoming president, is that SJW facists will go back in the closet

Sounds to me like you really want a safe space.

Khrz
07-20-2016, 10:22 AM
Don't underestimate the people's capacity to overlook their candidate's mistakes, no matter how damning.

Sallos
07-20-2016, 10:46 AM
Dude's less than a step removed from being a literal neo-Nazi, revels in trying to destroy the lives of people his disagrees with about fucking video games

How so?

Except that didn't happen here. Religious nuts are always in full force in the U.S. Did you miss the whole Kim Davis thing?
No, she went to jail right? Something i highly doubt would happen under Bush administration. When Bush was president we had the religious nuts preaching us about how you're a traitor for questioning your government, now we have the left accusing anyone and everyone of racism/sexism/somethingphobia, the subject has changed, but the message is the same, do not question the present government backed agenda, there shall be no room for discourse.


Thank God he is banned from Twitter after he lead the racist comments and abuse of Leslie Jones.

I missed it and can't quite find exactly what was said, do you have a link?


Sounds to me like you really want a safe space.

Nah, i think if i really wanted a safe space i'd take it a step further than commenting on a music forum, like bullying people and trying to get them fired from their jobs.

Frozen Beach
07-20-2016, 10:54 AM
LOL at people citing breitbart's website as a credible news source.
I hope you or anyone who have liked this post have never cited Huffingtonpost then as a source, because Breitbart is basically the conservative equivalent of that.



Seeing all his white supremacist stans cry about him getting kicked off Twitter has been quite cathartic.
I don't like Milo, but they clearly banned him as a fall guy for this situation revolving around Leslie. The ones who incited this are the people that browse 4chan's /pol/ board. Milo just unleashed a few petty comments, especially compared to the actual racist, misogynistic comments she was getting. Hell, the situation had already been happening for a while before Milo even involved himself in it.

And If they were going to permanently ban Milo, they should have done it a while back, but they never did because I suspect they gave him leniency because he was being treated poorly by twitter. He & his store's twitter get constant death threats, but no matter how much the threats are reported, twitter never do anything about it. And when he called them out on it, they suspended his account for no reason. They only brought it back because there was a shitstorm on twitter.

and it's not just "white supremacist" that are calling Twitter out on it, there are people that don't even like Milo that are calling bullshit on it. And it is bullshit. Guess they're gonna ban Patton Oswalt for starting that whole James Rolfe situation? Oh wait.



Thank God he is banned from Twitter after he lead the racist comments and abuse of Leslie Jones.
He didn't lead shit, 4chan's /pol/ board was behind this. And all of his comments happened after this situation had already started, and none of his tweets were racist. I know, I saw this shit unfold all throughout the day because I was bored & sick.

edit: Here's a question, why is this in the Presidential Election thread?

Mantra
07-20-2016, 10:58 AM
Hillary wants "national security experience" for her VP choice. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/us/politics/hillary-clinton-vice-president.html?_r=2

Sarah K
07-20-2016, 11:01 AM
Goodbye, my dreams of a Cory Booker vice presidency. :(

Aladdinsanity
07-20-2016, 11:08 AM
Milo consistently sources from 4chan and 8chan. You can argue on an individual basis that not everyone who participates in those boards likes or agrees with him, but they've rountinely served as his collective minions since the start of the Gamergate controversy and it's a luxury that he obviously relishes. The difference between him and Patton Oswalt is that Patton makes it very obvious that his opinions are his own -- he's not out in the open high-fiving people who are sending death threats or harassing in his stead.

Frozen Beach
07-20-2016, 11:15 AM
The difference between him and Patton Oswalt is that Patton makes it very obvious that his opinions are his own -- he's not out in the open high-fiving people who are sending death threats or harassing in his stead.
Well, he for damn sure didn't condemn any of that shit that revolved around Rolfe. I mean, you had fucking journalists joking that Rolfe's wife was a gold digger, you had people falsely labeling him a misogynist and even articles metaphorically crucifying him. And there's no way Patton didn't see this shit happening. It was fucking everywhere.

And no, I'm not trying to defend Milo's character. He's a piece of shit. But he isn't directly responsible for this Leslie situation.

If Twitter wants to ban someone for a legitimate reason, go look at Tila Tequila's page.

Khrz
07-20-2016, 11:16 AM
I hope you or anyone who have liked this post have never cited Huffingtonpost then as a source, because Breitbart is basically the conservative equivalent of that.

I think that was the point being made.

Frozen Beach
07-20-2016, 11:19 AM
I think that was the point being made.
I've never seen anyone call out someone for posting huffingtonpost on this board before though.

Mantra
07-20-2016, 11:34 AM
Goodbye, my dreams of a Cory Booker vice presidency. :(

Well, I think she and her team are just trying to imagine situations in which Trump could somehow win, and probably the best chance of that happening is if we have a big terrorist attack that causes everyone to freak out and press the Trump button. But if she can make a strong case that she and her VP are just as hawkish as Trump, she could maybe prevent that from happening.

Because other than that scenario, Trump's chances of winning are just too narrow. There are a number of crucial battle states (i.e: Florida) that he absolutely MUST get in order to win the election, and he's not doing well there at all. As we've already discussed here, there just aren't enough bitter white men to give him the numbers that he needs in order to win the GE. So I think Hillary's national security VP choice is basically just her trying to safeguard herself against one of the only scenarios where Trump could win.

Swykk
07-20-2016, 11:54 AM
Tim Kaine is the name I keep seeing around regarding Hillary's VP. I honestly don't know much about him. He's a senator from Virginia. He doesn't appear to have military experience.
Booker would make for a better choice solely based on people know who that is. He has charisma. He's done some good things.

DigitalChaos
07-20-2016, 12:15 PM
Watching Pat Smith, mother of one of the people killed at Benghazi. While I am deeply saddened by her loss, I am disgusted by the way she is being exploited by that tragedy.

Some thoughts:

1 - how is it any different than gun control efforts using the remaining families of victims to push legislation?

2 - I'm crossing my internet communities here, but people should know that Sean actively ridiculed his mom's politics. That makes her using his death in this way even more fucked: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3186581&userid=28262

3 - But in her head, she is doing what she thinks is best and what gets justice against Hillary. Hillary did lie to her face. Why wouldn't you actively try to get vengeance against a person like this?

allegro
07-20-2016, 12:22 PM
No, she went to jail right? Something i highly doubt would happen under Bush administration.
Bullshit, she went to jail in that county for not doing her job; Bush could not have any control over that, at all. Bush was the President of the United States, not the King. Kim Davis refused to issue marriage licenses when it was her job to do so, as an elected official, and she was told by a JUDGE to do her job or she would be held in contempt of court and she refused so she was held in contempt of court and went to jail until she agreed to do her job as an elected official. How the hell you think somehow this is affected by who is in the White House is nuts and means you don't know one iota about our country's separation of Federal and State governments and the separation between Church and State.

Overall, the religious right has been losing its stranglehold since REAGAN. Even Reagan, who was elected partly due to support from Jerry Falwell and the so-called Moral Majority, promptly distance himself from the Evangelicals (http://www.salon.com/2015/10/24/ronald_reagan_stiff_armed_the_religious_right_what _todays_gop_must_learn_before_wingnuts_swallow_it_ whole/) once he got into office.

The recent Roe v. Wade and gay marriage SCOTUS rulings mean the religious right has completely lost their foothold and they will never get it back.

Sallos
07-20-2016, 12:32 PM
Bullshit, she went to jail in that county for not doing her job; Bush could not have any control over that, at all. Bush was the President of the United States, not the King. Kim Davis refused to issue marriage licenses when it was her job to do so, as an elected official, and she was told by a JUDGE to do her job or she would be held in contempt of court and she refused so she was held in contempt of court and went to jail until she agreed to do her job as an elected official. How the hell you think somehow this is affected by who is in the White House is nuts and means you don't know one iota about our country's separation of Federal and State governments and the separation between Church and State.

Overall, the religious right has been losing its stranglehold since REAGAN. Even Reagan, who was elected partly due to support from Jerry Falwell and the so-called Moral Majority, promptly distance himself from the Evangelicals (http://www.salon.com/2015/10/24/ronald_reagan_stiff_armed_the_religious_right_what _todays_gop_must_learn_before_wingnuts_swallow_it_ whole/) once he got into office.

The recent Roe v. Wade and gay marriage SCOTUS rulings mean the religious right has completely lost their foothold and they will never get it back.

I never said its getting back. ALso the reason i believe she wouldn't get jailed under Bush, isn't because he would intervene, but more due to the political and social pressures of those days.

allegro
07-20-2016, 12:34 PM
I never said its getting back. ALso the reason i believe she wouldn't get jailed under Bush, isn't because he would intervene, but more due to the political and social pressures of those days.

The Executive Branch is required, by our Constitution, to support the Judicial Branch.

Alexander Hamilton, the Federalist Papers #78 (quoting Montesquieu), "there is no liberty, if the power of judging be not separated from the legislative and executive powers."

The President has absolutely no authority to intervene in the decision of a JUDGE. None. Zero. Nada. And it would be unconstitutional and set a terrible precedent.

She was held in contempt of court. A President has zero authority to anything about that. But you don't seem to grok that.

And she was held in contempt of court regardless of her religious views; she was held in contempt because she was told to do her job as an elected official and she said no and defied the court.

And there was PLENTY of political and social pressure when Kim Davis was in jail; there were daily protests; Cruz and Huckabee showed up for a press fest (http://www.faithfamilyamerica.com/kim_davis_freed_from_jail_as_huckabee_and_cruz_sho w_up_in_support).

There were POSTERS .. oooo
http://s.newsweek.com/sites/www.newsweek.com/files/styles/lg/public/2015/09/08/kim-davis.jpg

Sallos
07-20-2016, 12:45 PM
The Executive Branch is required, by our Constitution, to support the Judicial Branch.

Alexander Hamilton, the Federalist Papers #78 (quoting Montesquieu), "there is no liberty, if the power of judging be not separated from the legislative and executive powers."

The President has absolutely no authority to intervene in the decision of a JUDGE. None. Zero. Nada. And it would be unconstitutional and set a terrible precedent.

She was held in contempt of court. A President has zero authority to anything about that. But you don't seem to grok that.

And she was held in contempt of court regardless of her religious views; she was held in contempt because she was told to do her job as an elected official and she said no and defied the court.

I know all that, any western democracy is the same, what you're not groking is that im not attributing it to Bush himself but the political climate, in which judges make decisions.

allegro
07-20-2016, 12:53 PM
I know all that, any western democracy is the same, what you're not groking is that im not attributing it to Bush himself but the political climate, in which judges make decisions.
No. The judge made the decision because of the SCOTUS decision. The SCOTUS is the TOP court, which informs the lower courts in all states. Courts don't bow to social pressure, they rule by case law in that state but also by Federal rulings when applicable (Federal often trumps state case law); in this case, there was a Federal ruling that governed all of the states, and the judge stood by the Federal SCOTUS decision; the civil and Constitutional rights of the parties wishing to be married (per the SCOTUS decision) trumped the religious right of the employee who was refusing to issue a license; if she had a problem with issuing licenses, she could have delegated that job to other employees but she was refusing to do THAT, too, and by doing so was preventing people from their Constitutional right under the newly-minted SCOTUS decision.

The SCOTUS decision was made because there were enough lower court case decisions (case law) that supported the majority Opinion and not, contrary to conservative belief, a ridiculously liberal court. A liberal SCOTUS court can't willy nilly decide things based on feelings and the political climate; all decisions have to be based on precedent which changes based on case law.

Sallos
07-20-2016, 12:56 PM
No. The judge made the decision because of the SCOTUS decision. The SCOTUS is the TOP court, which informs the lower courts in all states. Courts don't bow to social pressure, they rule by case law in that state but also by Federal rulings when applicable (Federal often trumps state caselaw); in this case, there was a Federal ruling that governed all of the states, and the judge stood by the Federal SCOTUS decision; the civil and Constitutional rights of the parties wishing to be married (per the SCOTUS decision) trumped the religious right of the employee who was refusing to issue a license; if she had a problem with issuing licenses, she could have delegated that job to other employees but she was refusing to do THAT, too, and by doing so was preventing people from their Constitutional right under the newly-minted SCOTUS decision.

The SCOTUS decision didn't happen during the Bush years. Now you're just agreeing with me ;)
Anyway, the SCOTUS interprets the constitution, if the constitution wasn't open to interpretation, politicians could care less about who was a supreme judge or not.

allegro
07-20-2016, 01:01 PM
The SCOTUS decision didn't happen during the Bush years. Now you're just agreeing with me ;)
Anyway, the SCOTUS interprets the constitution, if the constitution wasn't open to interpretation, politicians could care less about who was a supreme judge or not.
Go read my response; it didn't happen under Bush because that was 8 to 16 years ago; case law takes time and money. It wasn't social pressure that enabled a SCOTUS decision; if you knew anything about what it takes to get a Petition for a Writ of Certiorari, then we could talk, but then we would digress too much in this thread.

The Constitution isn't necessarily open for interpretation. LAWS are open for interpretation, using the CONSTITUTION as a guideline. The SCOTUS does not interpret the Constitution; the SCOTUS interprets LAWS using the Constitution as a guideline; the SCOTUS decides if LAWS violate the Constitution.

Sallos
07-20-2016, 01:05 PM
Go read my response; it didn't happen under Bush because that was 8 to 16 years ago; case law takes time and money. It wasn't social pressure that enabled a SCOTUS decision; if you knew anything about what it takes to get a Petition for a Writ of Certiorari, then we could talk, but then we would digress too much in this thread.

The Constitution isn't necessarily open for interpretation. LAWS are open for interpretation, using the CONSTITUTION as a guideline.

Im not referring to what enabled the decision, but what the decision was. Had the SCOTUS pronounced itself on gay marriage in fifty years or so ago do you think the decision would have been the same?

allegro
07-20-2016, 01:08 PM
Im not referring to what enabled the decision, but what the decision was. Had the SCOTUS pronounced itself on gay marriage in fifty years or so ago do you think the decision would have been the same?

The SCOTUS already determined, in the Windsor case, that not enough case law existed to make a Federal decision (violated state's rights. 14th Amendment); you are just not getting this. Nearly fifty years ago, though, a very similar case was heard, which provided the key case law for this SCOTUS decision, in addition to the Windsor case plus the other case law in each state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia

The biggest quandary the SCOTUS had in passing the gay marriage decision wasn't gay marriage, itself; it was the 14th Amendment.

Sallos
07-20-2016, 01:13 PM
The SCOTUS already determined, in the Windsor case, that not enough case law existed to make a Federal decision (violated state's rights. 14th Amendment); you are just not getting this. Nearly fifty years ago, though, a very similar case was heard, which provided the key case law for this SCOTUS decision, in addition to the Windsor case plus the other case law in each state: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia

The Supreme court overruled the Pace v. Alabama from 1883, what changed from 1883 to 1967, the Constitution or the judges?

onthewall2983
07-20-2016, 01:16 PM
Third Eye Blind, for once in their lives, are awesome (https://mic.com/articles/149251/third-eye-blind-threw-a-semi-charmed-rnc-performance-to-troll-the-sh-t-out-of-republicans?utm_source=policymicFB&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=WHFacebook&utm_content=inf_10_285_2&tse_id=INF_870584204e9811e6a24dad7a55bc001f#.ItAd1 L3Eo)

allegro
07-20-2016, 01:19 PM
The Supreme court overruled the Pace v. Alabama from 1883, what changed from 1883 to 1967, the Constitution or the judges?

Like I have said about 3 times already: CASE LAW (also known as "precedent")

Hence why one of the first thing we learn to do, in law, is Shepardize (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepard%27s_Citations).

I've been in law for nearly 30 years, I could argue this all day but we are really clogging this thread with unnecessary shit, dude.

GulDukat
07-20-2016, 01:22 PM
Some thoughts:

1 - how is it any different than gun control efforts using the remaining families of victims to push legislation?

2 - I'm crossing my internet communities here, but people should know that Sean actively ridiculed his mom's politics. That makes her using his death in this way even more fucked: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3186581&userid=28262

3 - But in her head, she is doing what she thinks is best and what gets justice against Hillary. Hillary did lie to her face. Why wouldn't you actively try to get vengeance against a person like this?

1. Because Republicans are sitting on their hands, doing nothing, bowing to the NRA. Their inaction in Congress has led to more deaths via guns.

2. No comment.

3. Even if Clinton did lie, how is saying that a video was responsible for the attack, when it wasn't, make Clinton personally responsible for the death of Smith's son?

GulDukat
07-20-2016, 01:25 PM
Some thoughts:

1 - how is it any different than gun control efforts using the remaining families of victims to push legislation?

2 - I'm crossing my internet communities here, but people should know that Sean actively ridiculed his mom's politics. That makes her using his death in this way even more fucked: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3186581&userid=28262

3 - But in her head, she is doing what she thinks is best and what gets justice against Hillary. Hillary did lie to her face. Why wouldn't you actively try to get vengeance against a person like this?

1. Because Republicans are sitting on their hands, doing nothing, bowing to the NRA. Their inaction in Congress has led to more deaths via guns. Clinton, on the other hand, was not responsible for the attack on Bengazi. You are rightfully shaming Republicans in the former and politicizing a tragedy in the latter.

2. No comment.

3. Even if Clinton did lie, how is saying that a video was responsible for the attack, when it wasn't, make Clinton personally responsible for the death of Smith's son?

Sallos
07-20-2016, 01:29 PM
Like I have said about 3 times already: CASE LAW (also known as "precedent")

Hence why one of the first thing we learn to do, in law, is Shepardize (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepard%27s_Citations).

I've been in law for nearly 30 years, I could argue this all day but we are really clogging this thread with unnecessary shit, dude.

did you get my pm?

edith: you can't receive

allegro
07-20-2016, 01:47 PM
did you get my pm?

edith: you can't receive

My name's not Edith, LOL. I don't like PMs.

Look, this country was founded by Social Justice Warriors; the Bill of Rights was written by Social Justice Warriors who were very deliberate in their intentions, by creating a secular state and separating the state from the church. The Judicial branch sometimes has more conservative justices who very conservatively interpret case law, and sometimes it has justices who very liberally interpret case law, but they always leave the court open for change based on future case decisions and those decisions aren't based on "social climate" or "religious climate" so much as logic and reason and legal argument. Go look up gun law cases, for instance, and see how the opinions have progressed over the 100s of years, each one informing the next decision.

Roe v Wade was decided primarily on the 4th Amendment (Privacy) in 1973 but also on lots of case law, and a pretty large group of people are still trying to pass laws to overturn that decision which will probably never happen but the "climate" has never changed.

We do have to own up to the fact, though, that sometimes the SCOTUS makes pretty fucking bad decisions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dred_Scott_v._Sandford).

Jinsai
07-20-2016, 03:02 PM
I'd rather take a chance on Trump. The country desperately needs change and with him not being a traditional politician, I think he has the actual potential to elicit change. At the very least he has got a great attitude and has a pretty incedible track record when it comes to winning.

HAHA, ok, for a second there I thought you were actually serious. A+ trolling

theruiner
07-20-2016, 03:11 PM
You know, the closer we get to the election, the more nervous I'm getting. I can't even imagine a Trump presidency. And honestly, as a trans person, the idea scares me even more. He's already thrown us under the bus. He also goes with whatever is most favorable to his supporters at the moment, so I don't trust the dude as far as I can throw him.

Sallos
07-20-2016, 03:23 PM
My name's not Edith, LOL. I don't like PMs.

Look, this country was founded by Social Justice Warriors; the Bill of Rights was written by Social Justice Warriors who were very deliberate in their intentions, by creating a secular state and separating the state from the church. The Judicial branch sometimes has more conservative justices who very conservatively interpret case law, and sometimes it has justices who very liberally interpret case law, but they always leave the court open for change based on future case decisions and those decisions aren't based on "social climate" or "religious climate" so much as logic and reason and legal argument. Go look up gun law cases, for instance, and see how the opinions have progressed over the 100s of years, each one informing the next decision.

Roe v Wade was decided primarily on the 4th Amendment (Privacy) in 1973 but also on lots of case law, and a pretty large group of people are still trying to pass laws to overturn that decision which will probably never happen but the "climate" has never changed.

We do have to own up to the fact, though, that sometimes the SCOTUS makes pretty fucking bad decisions (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dred_Scott_v._Sandford).

I mistyped edit. Anyway, i still don't think you quite understood my point, perhaps another opportunity will arise in another thread more suited for this discussion.

Your Name Here
07-20-2016, 03:24 PM
..............

cashpiles (closed)
07-20-2016, 03:48 PM
You know, the closer we get to the election, the more nervous I'm getting. I can't even imagine a Trump presidency. And honestly, as a trans person, the idea scares me even more. He's already thrown us under the bus. He also goes with whatever is most favorable to his supporters at the moment, so I don't trust the dude as far as I can throw him.

Don't be afraid. He loves you too. He's all for protecting your rights.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/04/21/donald-trump-says-transgender-people-should-use-the-bathroom-they-want/

implanted_microchip
07-20-2016, 04:02 PM
Yeah as we all know, if you care about LGBT people, you get a guy like Mike motherfucking Pence as your VP who is so notoriously homophobic that other homophobic people go "maybe we shouldn't go that far, buddy." Any and all ability to say that a Trump presidency would have low impact on LGBT issues went right out the goddamn window with that choice, not there was ever much actual ability to say that in the first place. Add that with the fact that upwards of 4 SCJ's will be appointed in the next 4-8 years and know that he'd nominate conservatives likely to repeal things like equal marriage and you find that you're spouting an utter load of shit, cashpiles.

theruiner
07-20-2016, 05:00 PM
Don't be afraid. He loves you too. He's all for protecting your rights.

Right. Like how he said that our rights shouldn't be federally protected. You mean like that?

Your Name Here
07-20-2016, 05:12 PM
....................

Mantra
07-20-2016, 05:33 PM
Regarding this strange notion that Obama somehow forced Christians "back in the closet"...

Conservative Christians have gradually been losing their grip on the political scene for a number of reasons, but Obama's presidency is not one of them. Their decline in power has a lot more to do with an overall shift in values within the right itself. Non-religious conservatives have become more numerous and influential within conservative politics. These voters care more about conservative economics, foreign policy, gun rights, etc, but the classic social issues (abortion, gays, etc) aren't as much of a priority. Where strong social conservatives were once the norm within the right, they're now just one faction among others. This primary alone is proof of that. The evangelical vote just wasn't enough for Cruz to win the party nomination, because Christian conservatives aren't fully in charge anymore. This cultural shift within the right has been slowly happening for a long time, way before Obama. In general, Christian evangelicals are declining in numbers. Religion is just becoming less and less significant as time goes on. A lot of the kids who were raised by fundamentalist Christian families have not grown up to continue those same traditions. And for that matter, there are changes within Christianity itself, where beliefs that were once considered to be a fundamental are now up for debate.

Huge, epic cultural trends, like religion, racism, etc, are not singlehandedly brought in and out of existence by some random politician. They are the result of widespread ideology, and also the day-to-day, real life circumstances that affect people's lives and influence the way they think about the world.

Your Name Here
07-20-2016, 06:14 PM
.............

Frozen Beach
07-20-2016, 06:15 PM
Crap like that will end up getting him elected.

DigitalChaos
07-20-2016, 06:34 PM
god damn that makes me want to wear a MAGA hat just to provoke those idiots.
i really don't want to wear anything attached to trump though...

GulDukat
07-20-2016, 06:37 PM
I was in a coffee shop in a nice area of Los Angeles, a guy came in wearing a "Make America Great Again" hat. He was immediately accosted by two women in front of everybody they started calling him a racist. Then the women and the guy were both asked to leave by the manager. when the guy wearing the Trump hat went outside he was then confronted by two younger guys saying to him "come on bitch deport me motherfucker" then the one guy knocked the hat off his head and the other body slammed him and knocked him on the ground. They both stood over him yelling at him " get up bitch and deport me, come on motherfucker, come on motherfucker deport me bitch". The guy with the hat got up and ran away.
It's getting really ugly out there and wearing Trump swag in certain parts of Los Angeles, you could get your ass kicked.
That kind of behavior is inexcusable. I can't stand Trump, and when I have seen someone with a "Make America Great Again" hat, I just privately roll my eyes.

Your Name Here
07-20-2016, 06:52 PM
...........

orestes
07-20-2016, 07:15 PM
I hope you or anyone who have liked this post have never cited Huffingtonpost then as a source, because Breitbart is basically the conservative equivalent of that. Sorry, I don't read HuffPo or The Daily Beast because they're garbage just like Breitbart.


edit: Here's a question, why is this in the Presidential Election thread?
That is a very good question and one that should probably be answered in its own thread!

Frozen Beach
07-20-2016, 07:37 PM
Sorry, I don't read HuffPo or The Daily Beast because they're garbage just like Breitbart.

Good. Didn't mean for my comment to come off dickish if it did, it's just I've seen people source Huffpro before and no one has called them out on it. I usually just bite my tongue and compare and contrast the information with other sources.

orestes
07-20-2016, 07:41 PM
Maybe because people aren't aware of HuffPo's labor practices? People still cite CNN even though it's become a dumpster fire masquerading as a news channel so I'd rather assume people are just using the fastest source to come by and not some political intent.

DigitalChaos
07-20-2016, 09:39 PM
Hey guys, are we still talking about that super important Trump plagiarism thing?
1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8M6x1H08aFc

DigitalChaos
07-20-2016, 09:39 PM
2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgctsioisJg

DigitalChaos
07-20-2016, 09:40 PM
3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqutz5ASDSA

implanted_microchip
07-20-2016, 10:12 PM
Cruz refused to endorse Trump, told the crowd to "vote with their conscience," the Trump campaign got people to start chanting for him to endorse Donald and apparently his wife has been escorted by security out of the building.

Wew

Frozen Beach
07-20-2016, 10:19 PM
The Zodiac has a conscience?

Mantra
07-20-2016, 10:32 PM
Yeah that Cruz speech was pretty brutal, lol

allegro
07-21-2016, 12:01 AM
2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgctsioisJg

Obama ADMITTED that. Quit trolling.

Plus. It's just a lot weirder when a potential FLOTUS at a convention uses parts of the speech from a prior potential FLOTUS at a prior convention. Jesus Christ, at least PARAPHRASE. And now a PROFESSIONAL SPEECHWRITER admits not paraphrasing?

allegro
07-21-2016, 12:03 AM
Yeah that Cruz speech was pretty brutal, lol

I can't even watch that prick do anything.

Frozen Beach
07-21-2016, 01:00 AM
Ted Cruz is a coward. No, not for not endorsing Trump, but for delivering a passive aggressive speech instead of just saying how he really felt.

TheyCallMeDrug
07-21-2016, 02:56 AM
ugh, i can't wait for 2017. 2016 has been great so far on a personal level but this mindfuck of a nightmare wont end. just fucking, ugh.

hellospaceboy
07-21-2016, 07:29 AM
ugh, i can't wait for 2017. 2016 has been great so far on a personal level but this mindfuck of a nightmare wont end. just fucking, ugh.

I sometimes comfort myself knowing that politics are even more of a shitshow in Europe right now...

On the other hand, I applied for the citizenship this year, just so I can vote for the very first time in my life. It's still pending, but there's a good chance that I will get sworn in before October 6th, which would give me enough time to register to vote in Florida. I think this is a good election to participate in for the first time, can't wait!!!

Deepvoid
07-21-2016, 09:51 AM
What a disaster the RNC convention was. From all the no-shows to the plagiarized speech of Melania Trump and even more disturbing original denial position from the Trump campaign. From a failed attempt to change the rules to Ted Cruz declining to support Trump by declaring "vote your conscience" and to Laura Ingraham nazi salute (it wasn't even subtle).
It really was a big display of how fucked up that party is.

Sam Harris said it best, he'd rather vote for 4 years of Hillary which means status quo than for Trump who may end civilization as we know it. His dissection of Trump on the Joe Rogan Experience was pretty interesting.

joplinpicasso
07-21-2016, 10:13 AM
What a disaster the RNC convention was. From all the no-shows to the plagiarized speech of Melania Trump and even more disturbing original denial position from the Trump campaign. From a failed attempt to change the rules to Ted Cruz declining to support Trump by declaring "vote your conscience" and to Laura Ingraham nazi salute (it wasn't even subtle).
It really was a big display of how fucked up that party is.

Sam Harris said it best, he'd rather vote for 4 years of Hillary which means status quo than for Trump who may end civilization as we know it. His dissection of Trump on the Joe Rogan Experience was pretty interesting.
Harris has articulated this more in a fleshed-out and biting matter on one of his podcast episodes. I don't agree with everything he [Harris] says but it's the best critique I've heard yet of Trump.

allegate
07-21-2016, 11:30 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cn2oCBcXEAABNhV.jpg

hellospaceboy
07-21-2016, 12:25 PM
... and Laura Ingraham nazi salute (it wasn't even subtle).
It really was a big display of how fucked up that party is.



History will look back at this. One of the main parties in America, in 2016. The fact that a Nazi salute made it ONTO the big stage is very telling.

Sarah K
07-21-2016, 01:34 PM
It's a funny picture. But it ain't that serious.

Jinsai
07-21-2016, 02:22 PM
yeah, I mean, it's a raised hand at an angle, if she'd slapped her left hand over it near the elbow, that'd be something different. We don't need to look for coded language, like whether Mike Pence dropped some kind of illuminati gesture as he walked on stage (though that was a bit weird). There's enough insanity on full display here.

Deepvoid
07-21-2016, 04:59 PM
A picture might be deceiving but the a video doesn't lie. that's not even fucking subtle. The crisp and snap of the elbow. I mean looks and quacks like a duck, it's because it's a duck.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACclN3UDrdo

Sarah K
07-21-2016, 05:04 PM
I mean, come on... I think the obsession over this is reaching. Let's not get wrapped up in this conspiracy theory junk. That's what has driven such a wedge in the left this cycle.

Frozen Beach
07-21-2016, 05:18 PM
This is definitely a case of people being overly paranoid. It's an awkward wave people.

Jinsai
07-21-2016, 05:35 PM
As is usually the case with these conspiracy theories, you need to ask "WHY?!" Why in the hell would she make a nazi salute!? Is this like a Dr Strangelove thing, and she just can't help it? Not buying it.

Anyway, I got to sit in on the wednesday taping of Real Time with Bill Maher. Was really interesting, and Michael Moore seemed pretty genuine when he said he thought Trump was going to win. We need to stop laughing at the clown, we need to stop worrying about potential Nazi salutes... We need to be serious, because like Gingrich said, this isn't just the election of the next sitting president, this is about supreme court seats.

Mantra
07-21-2016, 05:50 PM
Are there a lot of people who think the Nazi salute is real? Everyone I know has just been laughing about it.

hellospaceboy
07-21-2016, 06:02 PM
I wasn't getting THAT worked up over it, but I do think that she was consciously trolling with it... It doesn't really matter, but I think it's real.
Again, not because she's a Nazi, but because she is a troll.

Your Name Here
07-21-2016, 06:04 PM
.............

Deepvoid
07-21-2016, 07:05 PM
I wouldn't try to make a case of it if it wasn't because the subject at hand is Laura Ingraham. She said some crazy ass shit before. I do think she did it on purpose just to fuck with people.

onthewall2983
07-21-2016, 07:34 PM
I don't think he has a chance of winning, but I will not be comfortable until it's official that he loses. Nobody should. It's that he's this far in it at all that should have people worried.

kdrcraig
07-21-2016, 08:33 PM
He's got a chance, at the beginning of this circus nobody thought he had a chance to get the nomination. It's terrifying

allegro
07-21-2016, 11:58 PM
Meanwhile, Michelle Obama's Carpool Karoake is awesome


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln3wAdRAim4

sick among the pure
07-21-2016, 11:59 PM
low liberal turn out because a lot of liberals are so uninspired by Hilary.

You say uninspired, I say despise. If Trump wins, it won't be because Democrats and Independents don't feel inspired by Hillary. It'll be because a majority of the voting public range from "I don't trust her" to "she should be in jail" to "I genuinely hate her."

Your Name Here
07-22-2016, 12:36 AM
...............

Khrz
07-22-2016, 05:36 AM
I don't think he has a chance of winning, but I will not be comfortable until it's official that he loses.

Seen from here, I think he has a reasonable chance to win, because as usual, the people who'll vote for him aren't only Trump supporters, aren't only Hillary "haters". They'll vote for him because, just like our dear friend @Sallos (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=776), they want the SJW fascists to shut the fuck up once and for all.

They're tired to be backed in a corner at every step, isolated when they talk about immigration, when they talk about gender equality, when they talk about foreign policy, when they talk about traditional values and the sanctity of marriage... Trump represents the chance to have the upper hand and make everyone shut their mouth, or so they think.

And as much as I really don't agree (understatement) with their views, I get it. The social justice discourse has become more and more aggressive these last years, and more and more relentless. You can't safely contradict it, or even argue it anywhere. These people are tired to feel like they're social outcasts all the time. The ALM movement is very symptomatic of this, people who have never been threatened who suddenly feel like they're treated like pariahs just because for once, they aren't included in something.

They want the left to just shut up for once, they're tired to be denounced at every step. And I do think the left has grown complacent, feeling so morally superior that it hasn't even deign to actually debate its views, brushing off contradicting opinions as racist, fascist, sexist, homophobic... Opinion with which, again, I tend to agree even though I don't like the attitude. But those who were left gagged and insulted with no one to defend them are really tired of the left's shit, I think. And now they want to be able to play that game too. That's what a Trump presidency will offer.

allegro
07-22-2016, 08:22 AM
Khrz, I don't think that's Trump's biggest audience, though. That's the REPUBLICAN'S biggest audience, has been for a long time, but Trump's biggest pull is related to the economy. His "Make America Great Again" slogan is primarily related to jobs and the economy. He appeals to Republican Obama-haters who think our economy is in the shitter (it isn't), hated the stimulus bill and believe it's the sole source of our national debt (it isn't), hate the TPP and NAFTA and believe that Trump will get rid of them and bring millions of jobs, etc. etc. Trump promises them jobs they didn't get back after the collapse of '08, economic security, etc. To them, Trump's billions represent success that they can have, too, if he is President, like an infomercial for those DVDs on how to flip houses.

Edit: And, really, his 2nd huge issue is national security, playing into the country's fears, of terrorism, etc. "I'm the law and order candidate" is his latest mantra, threatening to bar Muslims, vet Muslims, etc. He's saying he doesn't want the U.S. to be the world police, and will only enter conflicts if those country's have been loyal to the U.S., and it's funny but he bitches about Hillary voting for the Iraq war but his own V.P. choice did, too; now Trump says, yeah, well, everybody makes mistakes (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/17/trump-excuses-mike-pences-iraq-war-vote-but-slams-hillary-clinton-for-voting-the-same-way/).

Deepvoid
07-22-2016, 08:50 AM
Brawl erupts at the RNC convention between The Young Turks and Alex Jones.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4pX53AqpUs

Your Name Here
07-22-2016, 10:53 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNiqpBNE9ik

aggroculture
07-22-2016, 10:55 AM
Of course he has a chance at winning: just like GWB "won", and then won again for real in 2004.

We're going to be sitting here, on election night, watching this shit unfold, incredulous, utterly miserable and inconsolable and afraid when he wins. I can see it happening, and liberals need to work their asses off to make sure it doesn't: first step: stop with the "he doesn't have a chance" narrative. What can it possibly achieve? Underestimating him helps him win. It's been like that since day one, and liberals are still underestimating him. Stop with that already.

allegro
07-22-2016, 12:16 PM
Of course he has a chance at winning: just like GWB "won", and then won again for real in 2004.
Bush won in '04 because no sitting President has ever not won during "war time" and John Kerry allowed himself to be Swiftboated, not because liberals were complacent.

But, yes, sitting around not voting because one assumes that Clinton will win, anyway, or nobody cares, is a dumb fucking move (and is probably how Gore won, due to lack of the minority vote for him in southern states).

A key element in this election is the ACA and how it has benefitted African Americans who want to see it continue, which Clinton wants to do (with some positive revisions). Trump, of course, wants to dismantle it with the help of Congress; this, alone, is a huge incentive to get blacks to the pols to vote for Clinton. Clinton has continuously shown to have huge minority support, especially that of African Americans.

McCain lost due to lack of the minority vote. Romney lost due to lack of the minority vote. The Republicans simply cannot rely on angry white Americans to win the Presidency, anymore. A lot has changed since '00.

Frozen Beach
07-22-2016, 12:20 PM
Brawl erupts at the RNC convention between The Young Turks and Alex Jones.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4pX53AqpUs
Alex Jones is a nutjob, but the way TYT handled that situation was terrible. Cenk flying into a blind rage, Ana calling Jones a "fat fuck" (which reveals she's a hypocrite when it comes to fat shaming. Plus Alex Jones is as big as Cenk is...) and Jimmy Dore spitting in his face. Icing on the cake? They edited these things out of their video of the incident.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=412aatJqbzo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxaTZ1V9FCg

I mean, Alex Jones is a dick for taking over their show, but would they have acted the same way if it were, say, Eric Andre did it (who was going around stealing other people's stages with no consequence for "comedic" purposes.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq3_G-E5Bt8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy47dgjMk-A

allegro
07-22-2016, 12:25 PM
^ Come on, I don't even have any desire to watch that, it's obviously a planned publicity stunt for ad hits. I refuse to contribute to those news whores. That ain't even real news, it's just ignorant greed.

Frozen Beach
07-22-2016, 12:45 PM
I only posted that stuff since someone posted about the incident occurring, and I thought it would be fair to post the whole story, not just a biased story.

and as for ad hits, all but one of those videos are rehosts (the final link is Breitbart, just to prove Eric Andre was hijacking shit)

allegro
07-22-2016, 01:15 PM
I only posted that stuff since someone posted about the incident occurring, and I thought it would be fair to post the whole story, not just a biased story.

and as for ad hits, all but one of those videos are rehosts (the final link is Breitbart, just to prove Eric Andre was hijacking shit)
Anything related to Breitbart really needs to be read as slanted (https://newrepublic.com/minutes/132825/one-breitbarts-editors-donald-trumps-payroll).

Frozen Beach
07-22-2016, 01:23 PM
Anything related to Breitbart really needs to be read as slanted (https://newrepublic.com/minutes/132825/one-breitbarts-editors-donald-trumps-payroll).
I know, but that doesn't change the fact that Eric Andre interrupted their show. That is the only reason I linked that video.

aggroculture
07-22-2016, 01:26 PM
Bush won in '04 because no sitting President has ever not won during "war time" and John Kerry allowed himself to be Swiftboated, not because liberals were complacent.

But, yes, sitting around not voting because one assumes that Clinton will win, anyway, or nobody cares, is a dumb fucking move (and is probably how Gore won, due to lack of the minority vote for him in southern states).

A key element in this election is the ACA and how it has benefitted African Americans who want to see it continue, which Clinton wants to do (with some positive revisions). Trump, of course, wants to dismantle it with the help of Congress; this, alone, is a huge incentive to get blacks to the pols to vote for Clinton. Clinton has continuously shown to have huge minority support, especially that of African Americans.

McCain lost due to lack of the minority vote. Romney lost due to lack of the minority vote. The Republicans simply cannot rely on angry white Americans to win the Presidency, anymore. A lot has changed since '00.

I hope you are right. Currently, Hillary is allowing herself to be Benghazied and email servered. I hope she has a strong come back for the next months. Her VP pick really needs to galvanize passion where she can't.

allegro
07-22-2016, 01:27 PM
I know, but that doesn't change the fact that Eric Andre interrupted their show. That is the only reason I linked that video.
Understood.

Deepvoid
07-22-2016, 01:42 PM
^ Come on, I don't even have any desire to watch that, it's obviously a planned publicity stunt for ad hits. I refuse to contribute to those news whores. That ain't even real news, it's just ignorant greed.

No doubt Alex Jones is looking for visibility. He's been at it throughout the week ambushing Karl Rove at the airport and whatnot.
TYT was just doing their regular broadcast. This was not setup by them for publicity.

allegro
07-22-2016, 01:44 PM
No doubt Alex Jones is looking for visibility. He's been at it throughout the week ambushing Karl Rove at the airport and whatnot.
TYT was just doing their regular broadcast. This was not setup by them for publicity.

I just hate all of them and wish they'd all go away.

Mantra
07-22-2016, 02:59 PM
Boy, it sure was wonderful to see good old Joe Arpaio get up there and show his support for Trump, especially the moment when the crowd all started chanting "Build a wall! Build a wall!"

Somebody just put a fucking bullet in my head.

Sarah K
07-22-2016, 03:09 PM
I just hate all of them and wish they'd all go away.

Yep. They've now become the same shtick, just on the opposite sides of the spectrum. TYT have become insufferable in the last year or so.

Frozen Beach
07-22-2016, 04:52 PM
http://observer.com/2016/07/wikileaks-proves-primary-was-rigged-dnc-undermined-democracy/ (http://observer.com/2016/07/wikileaks-proves-primary-was-rigged-dnc-undermined-democracy/)

So this information is going around.

Jinsai
07-22-2016, 04:58 PM
hearing Trump almost comically promise to protect "our LGBTQ community" from terrorists... this whole charade has gotten so ludicrous. Yeah, I'm sure Trump cares a lot about gay people, that's why he picked Mike "Max Headroom" Pence to be his VP, who presumably will be handling all the foreign and domestic duties of the presidency, just like how he tried to sell the job to Kasich.

I'm freaked out. The polls are way too close, and the media is doing a shit job of calling Trump out on the barrage of lies. Maybe it's just too much, they can't contain the explosion of bullshit. Ivanka claiming that her father will fight for wage equality, and that he always has in his business, but then you take a quick look at wage discrepancy for female vs male employees on his campaign: bullshit. Police killings are not up 50% in the past year, they're up 8%. Hillary Clinton has not implied, let alone flat out said she "wants to essentially abolish the second amendment," nor did she "invent ISIS." It's kind of hard to pin the blame on her when the group existed before she became secretary of state. I'm not sure if Trump fully understands the role of the presidency, but "public safety" is not handled by the federal government... so make all the promises you want, but you're impotent there.

Maybe the most insidious bullshit is the lame appeal he makes to Bernie Sanders supporters, sharing sympathy with them for how their candidate lost because of a "rigged system." I want to puke in this man's face.

allegro
07-22-2016, 05:04 PM
hearing Trump almost comically promise to protect "our LGBTQ community" from terrorists... this whole charade has gotten so ludicrous. Yeah, I'm sure Trump cares a lot about gay people.
The VP is a no nothing job, anyway, unless the President croaks. I kinda believe him re LGBTQ rights especially after this (http://www.eonline.com/shows/i_am_cait/news/758844/donald-trump-supports-caitlyn-jenner-and-other-trans-people-s-right-to-use-any-bathroom-they-feel-comfortable-in). He only hired Pence to make his campaign look "conservative" since so many Repugs were bitching that Trump isn't a Real Conservative. All those other lies he didn't even invent, he's just repeating the GOP Machine lies that they all love to hear, especially the ones about ISIS being Hillary Clinton's fault etc. They'd blame Hillary Clinton for Jesus' crucifixion if they could pin her down to that timeline. I'm sure Ben Carson could figure out a way.

The media is inventing these polls, too.

Jinsai
07-22-2016, 05:14 PM
The VP is a no nothing job, anyway, unless the President croaks. I kinda believe him re LGBTQ rights especially after this (http://www.eonline.com/shows/i_am_cait/news/758844/donald-trump-supports-caitlyn-jenner-and-other-trans-people-s-right-to-use-any-bathroom-they-feel-comfortable-in). He only hired Pence to make his campaign look "conservative" since so many Repugs were bitching that Trump isn't a Real Conservative.

On paper, the VP is nothing... but I don't think it's a stretch to infer that Cheney was the "brain" behind the Bush Jr presidency. Kasich claims he was offered the VP position and was told that he'd basically be handling everything.

allegro
07-22-2016, 05:22 PM
On paper, the VP is nothing... but I don't think it's a stretch to infer that "Cheney" was the brain behind the Bush Jr presidency. Kasich claims he was offered the VP position and was told that he'd basically be handling everything.

LOL, well, I would hope so, haha. What's Trump gonna be doing, golfing??

Shit, it woulda been better to have Kasich in there, he's not Jesus Junior like Pence. Pence is only slightly better than fucking CRUZ.

FUCK YOU, KASICH.

I especially hope that 10,000 for every 1 Trump voter votes for Clinton, you shitbag.

Mantra
07-22-2016, 06:31 PM
Yeah the opening bit from that NYTimes article (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/magazine/how-donald-trump-picked-his-running-mate.html) is really something, not only because of how hilarious and strange it is, but because it helps demonstrate how paper thin Trump's vision is, how there's very little substance behind all his talk.


One day this past May, Donald Trump’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., reached out to a senior adviser to Gov. John Kasich of Ohio, who left the presidential race just a few weeks before. As a candidate, Kasich declared in March that Trump was “really not prepared to be president of the United States,” and the following month he took the highly unusual step of coordinating with his rival Senator Ted Cruz in an effort to deny Trump the nomination. But according to the Kasich adviser (who spoke only under the condition that he not be named), Donald Jr. wanted to make him an offer nonetheless: Did he have any interest in being the most powerful vice president in history?

When Kasich’s adviser asked how this would be the case, Donald Jr. explained that his father’s vice president would be in charge of domestic and foreign policy.

Then what, the adviser asked, would Trump be in charge of?

“Making America great again” was the casual reply.

lol

Jinsai
07-22-2016, 06:44 PM
LOL, well, I would hope so, haha. What's Trump gonna be doing, golfing??

He'll probably be doing lots of golfing. Depending on who you ask, and whether we're counting trips to Camp David, Bush spent a total of 1024 days on vacation during his two terms. This includes 77 trips (491 days) at his ranch (where he spent a full month on vacation right before 9/11).

So yeah, I'm terrified. It's looking like a reality-tv star real estate tycoon egomaniac sociopath (and his sinister fuckhead running mate) who wants to abolish Roe v Wade, basically halt progress towards combating climate change, and reverse the decision on gay marriage has a good chance at appointing SCOTUS seats.

Everywhere online now I'm seeing idealistic millennial Sanders supporters jumping on the Jill Stein bandwagon. I've never been so stressed out at the wind-up of an election cycle. I'm just sitting here, frantic, waiting for Hillary to announce her running mate.

Please, please, please pick Bernie Sanders.

allegro
07-22-2016, 06:45 PM
Trump: In charge of: "Making America great again."

HA HAAAAA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAA I can't believe he could say that with a straight face!!


Everywhere online now I'm seeing idealistic millennial Sanders supporters jumping on the Jill Stein bandwagon.
Oh, please, those people probably aren't even registered to vote.

Are they white people with neck beards? Then who fucking cares. We just have to care about the Latinos and black people actually getting to the pols and annihilating the GOP.

Again.

I still wonder if Clinton is going to pick Sarah K's favorite, Cory Booker (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sen-cory-booker-of-nj-remains-under-vp-consideration-for-clinton/2016/07/21/b8e96ffc-4f46-11e6-aa14-e0c1087f7583_story.html).

Here are 6 reasons why she is right (http://thefederalist.com/2016/07/18/6-reasons-cory-booker-should-be-clintons-running-mate/).

Jinsai
07-22-2016, 07:03 PM
HA HAAAAA HA HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAA I can't believe he could say that with a straight face!!

It's the "winter is coming" of the Trump campaign, and it feels sufficiently ominous at this point.



Oh, please, those people probably aren't even registered to vote.

Are they white people with neck beards? Then who fucking cares.

I would love to share your ambivalence, but the numbers are there. They voted in the primaries, and that's unheard of with younger voters.


We just have to care about the Latinos and black people actually getting to the pols and annihilating the GOP.

Again.

Well, yes... but the polls aren't trustworthy here. You have a mystery vote with Trump... how many people aren't admitting that they secretly can't wait to vote for him. His demagoguery has spoken to the silent bigotry in this country. Racists that used to have to wear a klan hat to anonymously conceal their beliefs. You'll find them anonymously posting their racist shit on forums and youtube comments, but they don't share those beliefs publicly. Now they can just whistle on down to the polls and anonymously vote for Trump, and tell everyone else that they voted for Gary Johnson.


I still wonder if Clinton is going to pick @ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sen-cory-booker-of-nj-remains-under-vp-consideration-for-clinton/2016/07/21/b8e96ffc-4f46-11e6-aa14-e0c1087f7583_story.html)Sarah K (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=3236)'s favorite, Cory Booker.

There are a lot of good choices she could make, but the one that would cement her victory and help me release all this stress and worry would be Sanders. Even if it's transparent lip service, it would be absolutely the best move she could make strategically at this point.

sick among the pure
07-22-2016, 07:36 PM
I can't speak for a lot of liberals but I am a liberal so I will speak for myself. I feel a lot of the Hilary hatred comes from endless republican smear campaigns

A lot of us have hated her since she was NY state senator. She did a shit job, and basically anywhere outside the NYC area has hated her ever since. I was lucky in 2008 that I was already such a strong supporter of Obama, because I would have voted for literally anyone over her in the primaries back then. Things have only gotten worse for her since then. People who would have voted for either Democrat in 2008 are now thinking 3rd party, write in, or no-vote over voting for her.
PA has similar feelings, as does eastern OH. I can't speak from experience for other areas, but living in those areas all my life, this isn't some sudden "republican smear campaign" causing hate. This is a very long-growing hate.

Because I know how discussions go in here, this is in no way saying Trump is better, Trump is more or less liked, etc. Just pointing out the HUGE FLAW that is nominating Hillary and how her problems go much further than "uninspiring" (which is also a very important thing. One big reasons Obama won was he inspired people. One reason Trump is doing as well as he is, he is inspiring people. The wrong kind, in the wrong way, but you can't say that he's not.)

orestes
07-22-2016, 07:38 PM
I am far too sober to be reading these posts.

allegro
07-22-2016, 08:22 PM
I am far too sober to be reading these posts.
I'll drink to that.

Ugh she chose Tim Kaine, blehhhh

At least he's Catholic and not EVANGELICAL (evil laugh)

Anyway, Hillary is from Illinois and she doesn't annoy me nearly enough to WANT TO PUT FUCKING TRUMP INTO OFFICE. PLUS, I WANT A FEMALE PRESIDENT ALREADY FOR FUCK'S SAKE IT'S 2016. CHICKS RULE YEAAAAHHHHHHH.

I don't grok this whole thing about wanting a Deepok Choprah "inspiring" President. Maybe Roosevelt during the Depression needed to hold the country together with the whole "fear itself" thing. But political inspiration is really just propaganda.

Baphomette
07-22-2016, 09:35 PM
We just have to care about the Latinos...

There goes that idea.

I'm gonna go get really drunk now...

allegro
07-22-2016, 09:49 PM
There goes that idea.

I'm gonna go get really drunk now...

I'll go with you ...

Well, at least he's Catholic. And he's not Trump.

For you:
https://img.thewhiskyexchange.com/540/brbon_mak1.jpgFor me: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0173/0930/products/hakutsuru-superior-junmai-ginjo-sake_large.jpg

marodi
07-22-2016, 10:09 PM
Well, at least he's Catholic. And he's not Trump.


And Pope Francis doesn't like Trump which is... good?

I'll join your drinking party with this:

https://www.dutyfree.co.il/media/catalog/product/cache/3/small_image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/2/6/2680__2680.jpg

Let's get it on!

I wish I knew how to post Tweets because George Harrison's estate really owned Trump with a couple of them.

Your Name Here
07-22-2016, 10:18 PM
...................

Jinsai
07-22-2016, 11:46 PM
Ugh she chose Tim Kaine, blehhhh

Oh god... why...

I'm not going to join you guys with the booze, but I'm going to go get insanely stoned and make some very sad noise music.

and on the Catholic tip, this is how I'm feeling right now:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74DeoFjmA74

DigitalChaos
07-23-2016, 12:40 AM
lol Tim Kane.
Progressive get shit on again by Hillary. Guess a ton of Bernie voters will definitely be voting for Greens and Libertarians.

DigitalChaos
07-23-2016, 12:48 AM
Alex Jones is a nutjob, but the way TYT handled that situation was terrible. Cenk flying into a blind rage, Ana calling Jones a "fat fuck" (which reveals she's a hypocrite when it comes to fat shaming. Plus Alex Jones is as big as Cenk is...) and Jimmy Dore spitting in his face. Icing on the cake? They edited these things out of their video of the incident.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=412aatJqbzo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxaTZ1V9FCg

I mean, Alex Jones is a dick for taking over their show, but would they have acted the same way if it were, say, Eric Andre did it (who was going around stealing other people's stages with no consequence for "comedic" purposes.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq3_G-E5Bt8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jy47dgjMk-A


Holy fuck man. I saw the edited one and even then Cenk and his team looked like absolute tools. I can't believe Alex Jones was the emotionally controlled person in the room while Cenk lost his shit.

You wanna understand Alex Jones better? Just imagine him to be doing a WWE character during the pre-fight skits.

DigitalChaos
07-23-2016, 12:52 AM
@sick among the pure (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=266) I hear you, I don't hate clinton the way you do, but she wasn't my first choice. I wanted Bernie but that ship has sailed. I am even less enthused about Tim Kaine, I was hoping that the Democratic party would move further to the left after Sanders primary run.
They will only move left WHILE Sanders is sharing the spotlight. Now that he is gone though... fuck that they will start pushing right again.

If you want to see Hillary (and Trump) get pushed left, you better hope we get a 3rd party on the debate stage. That's the only way it will be happening now that Sanders is out. Gary Johnson is getting very close to being in the debates, but we need more people to push him up in the polls.

Harry Seaward
07-23-2016, 04:26 AM
Trump is such a difficult bug to squash because his supporters view every gaffe as an example of him being a big strong media manipulating powerhouse of no-nonsense ass-kicking. They write off every criticism as coming from a communist/crook/Mexican/anti-American/liberal/MSM shill/"intellectual" no matter the source. He cannot be made to look bad to his devoted followers, no matter what happens.

Trump supporters believe that his opposition is made squarely up of dumb liberals or 'socialist cucks' but this is most assuredly not the case. There is a reason that the ONLY people that support him are those lacking any bit of sanity or even a modicum of intelligence or even just political knowledge. They think this is the normal case of partisan bickering, another repetition of "my candidate can beat up your candidate!" that happens every election year (and usually in-between as well.) But as far as it seems, they couldn't be further from the truth.

There is a reason that anybody who's sane is horrified by the thought of Donald Trump in any position of real substantive power. It's not just liberals thinking this way, it's any reasonable centrist or undecided, and a non-negligible amount of conservatives. Yes, he's running against HILLARY CLINTON, one of the most widely hated establishment professional politicians who's perceived by a high percentage of people as being a corrupt snake, and there's still many people in his 'own' party who would never imagine considering voting for him. This is not your normal dog race.

He kicked off his Presidential campaign with a speech in which he posited that Mexican immigrants are "bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists." This speech being the first of his campaign, obviously and effectively meant to attract a media storm, has framed his campaign in such a way that the most overwhelmingly common criticism of Trump himself is that he's a racist. The problem here is that usually when he's discussing a race or nationality or religion of people he clearly dislikes, he uses plenty of weasel words and attempts at creating plausible deniability. This in turn makes it easy for his supporters to deflect cries of racism as politically correct pansy liberals who are afraid of hearing some cold hard truth, spoken by a man who isn't afraid to say what he's thinking and isn't constrained by the 'system' or the 'Man.'

It's a shame that the go-to criticism against Trump is the racism because, whether he and his campaign are racist or not, it's one of the least troubling things about him. The list of absolutely insane gut-wrenching things Donald Trump has said and done, things that would normally end a campaign if even one of them had occurred, is too long to mention every specific. But I will name a few, just a couple of the ones that I can recall immediately from the top of my head.

Donald Trump thinks we should kill the wives and children of suspected terrorists. When asked what he would do about ISIS he, giving his usual response of almost completely empty platitudes stapled together by the only pudding-like substance he can muster, says we should force the NATO countries to fight them for us. Somehow (?). On the subject of NATO, he seems to think we should put conditions on our obligation to defend other NATO countries against attacks (from Russia specifically) which of course would throw into disarray and chaos the world's politics and lose the United States an unprecedented amount of trust among the world's nations. He believes we should punish women for getting abortions, i.e. doing something perfectly legal.

Donald Trump thinks we should put every Muslim on a literal watch-list and if that's not enough, he thinks we should ban them from entering the country. Now I'm an anti-theist and I'm no fan of the religion of Islam, but let me remind you, in case you've forgotten, that one of America's primary founding principles, one of it's core freedoms, one of it's self-evident truths is... Freedom of religion. See I know ole' Tommy Jefferson and Benny Franklin didn't exactly spell it out in black and white for us, but one can safely assume without necessitating a Supreme Court ruling that this freedom of religion includes the freedom from being banned from the country and the freedom from being put on a fucking watch-list.

Aside from policies for a second, he's a seriously obnoxious crass egotistical douchebag, to be truthful. When he's not talking about wanting to fuck his daughter or mocking disabled people in front of his crowd of jackals, he's assuring America that he has a big dick during a Presidential debate or he's making up catchy nicknames for his political rivals. Because these are all things that mature adults do. There is literally not one shred of evidence in his nearly 40 year career in the public eye (or recollections from others of his private life for that matter) that he actually possesses the ability to act like an adult. Every time he speaks, be it on Twitter, or a talk show, or a Fox News interview, or at the Republican National Convention, there is no change in his tone. He doesn't have a silly side and a serious side. He honestly cannot just 'pull it together.' His only setting is to just say whatever he is thinking with no filter in sight and thus comes across like a crybaby narcissist child.

The issue with Trump supporters is that they're irrevocably brainwashed by this monstrous cult of personality. Again, this is not a normal case of simply being a fan of a politician. His fans are people who have always felt these things - the racist, sexist, fascist ideals - but they've never been able to say it in public before he came along. (Rightfully so, because most of these ideals are not worthy of open, public discourse.) But Trump has come along and started saying what they think and, to them, he exudes this confidence and superiority and patriotism, the likes of which they've never seen before. So naturally they have instantly fallen infinitely deep into drunk love with him, never to fall back out again. That's why they're completely blind to any criticism to them. They view every piece of data that catches Trump in a bald-faced lie and every opinion that disagrees with him on any point the same way - just a sissy commie liberal who doesn't want to Make America Great Again.

There's a reason that every single public figure with any amount of prestige feels the same exact way on this subject. Regardless of political standing, respected and honored journalists, politicians, authors, actors, military members, international leaders, even corporate CEOS. All of these people despise Trump and recognize the imminent danger he poses to American freedom, democracy, economy, and our standing in the world's ranks. The examples I've given above are all proof enough to show you how fascist and anti-America this man is, but I have barely even touched the surface. Don't let his supporters mock you and fool you into thinking the characterizations of being a fascist are exaggerations. The comparisons to Hitler are not exaggerations.

There is a reason that every respected and intelligent public figure, left and right, all hold a unanimous opinion on Donald Trump. There is a reason that there are exactly zero respected and intelligent public figures supporting Trump. Remember this, remember how unifying this man is in our hatred for him. Remember this and do not let him win.

(P.S. I will be AMAZED if a single person gets to the end of this book I've written. Please leave a comment if you read the whole thing just so I know who to thank and know that my time spent typing this out was at least worth something.)

Swykk
07-23-2016, 07:59 AM
@allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) @orestes (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=4) @Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) I honestly don't know much about Kaine as I stated before. I'm guessing that it is better I don't?

UPDATE: Googled. Supports bank deregulation. That's, of course, bothersome but not unexpected for someone in Hillary's crew. Doesn't really support abortion. Ick.

Moreover, you'd think she'd want somebody with a name. Trump pulled a similar nobody move. The only reason I knew Pence is because I unfortunately live in Indiana.

Thursday's Real Time RNC special should clue those of you who don't know Pence into what he's put Indiana through.

allegro
07-23-2016, 11:30 AM
@allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) @orestes (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=4) @Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) I honestly don't know much about Kaine as I stated before. I'm guessing that it is better I don't?

UPDATE: Googled. Supports bank deregulation. That's, of course, bothersome but not unexpected for someone in Hillary's crew. Doesn't really support abortion. Ick.

Moreover, you'd think she'd want somebody with a name. Trump pulled a similar nobody move. The only reason I knew Pence is because I unfortunately live in Indiana.

Thursday's Real Time RNC special should clue those of you who don't know Pence into what he's put Indiana through.

He has the Joe Biden Catholic stance on abortion: he is personally pro-life but fully supports the choice for everybody else. I suspect these public people do this because they get ALL KINDS of shit from the Roman Catholic church for being a public pro-choice politician who can affect public policy.

His views on banks, recently, related to small local banks that are regulated to the same extent as huge Bank of America type banks and it's nearly putting them out of business, forcing people to use the big banks, instead.

Watched Maddow last night; he has no known enemies anywhere, pretty much everybody likes him, including Republicans. He supported the TPP but has agreed to change his stance on that to support Hillary's stance. Hillary says she wanted a trusted, informed advisor and somebody who wasn't afraid to tell her when she is wrong.

Allegedly, he was vetted by a group that included Pres. Obama and former Pres. Bill Clinton.

He's not the most charismatic guy in the world.

This is from Hillary's page (https://www.hillaryclinton.com/feed/8-things-you-need-to-know-about-tim-kaine-your-next-vice-president/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=fb&utm_campaign=20160723feed_kaine).

allegro
07-23-2016, 11:59 AM
Re Kaine and banks: he was among a group that (https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/liberals-criticize-kaine-for-supporting-regulations-pushed-by-banks/2016/07/21/77c165e2-4f5b-11e6-aa14-e0c1087f7583_story.html):


signed a bipartisan letter Monday urging the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to “carefully tailor its rulemaking” regarding community banks and credit unions so as not to “unduly burden” these institutions with regulations aimed at commercial banks. At issue are compliance rules under the post-recession banking law known as Dodd-Frank.

Kaine was also one of four senators to sign a second letter Monday on behalf of regional banks seeking relief from a daily reporting requirement of liquidity. Activists said the request to Federal Reserve Chair Janet L. Yellen and other officials to lengthen the time between reporting would allow some very large banks too much leeway. Liquidity can be a measure of a bank’s health and risk-taking.

Our primary clients are banks that are still selling off HUGE amounts of foreclosure inventory and the daily reporting requirement is requiring staffing costs that are nuts (the costs of which of course get passed on to consumers). Reporting does not affect risk.

hellospaceboy
07-23-2016, 12:05 PM
The most important thing about Tim Kaine is that he has chemistry with Hillary.

After watching Trump and Pence awkwardly sit next to each other, and you can't shake the feeling that inside they both resent the other one. Zero chemistry, it was just a calculated move that only looked at the short term benefits of rolling out a true conservative...

Hillary picked someone who she really likes and could easily work with. Might not be an election booster, but on the long run it seems like a fair reason to pick a running mate.

hellospaceboy
07-23-2016, 12:12 PM
Also, the post-convention polls are in, and Trump is now catching up to Hillary, only behind her 3 points.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html)

However, it's not as encouraging for republicans as it might seem: the convention boost was expected. 8 years ago it was enough to briefly push McCain ahead of Obama. Here, it wasn't.

(disclaimer: I don't know this realclearpolitics site, but I checked 3 other polls and they has the same margins)

allegro
07-23-2016, 12:30 PM
After watching Trump and Pence awkwardly sit next to each other, and you can't shake the feeling that inside they both resent the other one. Zero chemistry, it was just a calculated move that only looked at the short term benefits of rolling out a true conservative...
Yeah, kind of a Kennedy / Johnson move. They supposedly HATED each other, but Kennedy wanted the southern vote.

Jinsai
07-23-2016, 01:16 PM
@allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) @orestes (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=4) @Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) I honestly don't know much about Kaine as I stated before. I'm guessing that it is better I don't?

It's not that he's horrifying really, and is a bland centrist appeal that will sound mostly like cricket-song, it's that he adds nothing in a race where something was desperately needed. I hate to say it, but I am truly worried that we're fucked.

I'm going to go fondly stroke my Canadian passport. I've never been so glad to be a dual citizen.

allegro
07-23-2016, 01:19 PM
I'm going to go fondly stroke my Canadian passport. I've never been so glad to be a dual citizen.
G's already been talking about moving to Canada due to all these crazy police shootings in this country.

Edit: I'm watching Clinton and Kaine in Miami right now and, I gotta say, Kaine has more charisma in this than I expected. Thumbs up.

Jinsai
07-23-2016, 01:25 PM
G's already been talking about moving to Canada due to all these crazy police shootings in this country.

I'm just constantly asking myself "why am I staying here?!" I'm not married, in a current relationship, my jobs are sporadic, I live in a fucking expensive city, I actually prefer overcast and gloomy weather over the non-season always-summer shit we get here, and Trump might become president. I have some friends here, but I'll make new friends, right? I can learn to mispronounce "O" properly.
I actually have a bunch of friends in Vancouver. Maybe this is the change I need. Fuck this country.

allegro
07-23-2016, 01:34 PM
I'm just constantly asking myself "why am I staying here?!" I'm not married, in a current relationship, my jobs are sporadic, I live in a fucking expensive city, I actually prefer overcast and gloomy weather over the non-season always-summer shit we get here, and Trump might become president. I have some friends here, but I'll make new friends, right? I can learn to mispronounce "O" properly.
I actually have a bunch of friends in Vancouver. Maybe this is the change I need. Fuck this country.

It's becoming very frustrating, that's for sure. G and I want to move near marodi and Deepvoid. We can learn FRENCH!

I was watching the live feed of Clinton and Kaine online and the comments section is running in the side screen and Kaine spoke some Spanish, the crowd went nuts, and in the comments people are saying 'WE SPEAK ENGLISH IN THE COUNTRY!" and "THE PEOPLE WHO SPEAK SPANISH NEED TO GO HOME" and stupid shit like that. Fucking Trump Trolls.

Btw, he lived in Honduras for a year when he took time off from law school to help Jesuit missionaries, so that's how he learned Spanish. Interesting. It isn't perfect Spanish but it's better than my retired boss' Spanish:

"Si, bring su es-SPOUSE-a to la officina del abogado con el deniro en la maņana"