BioShock

[october_midnight]

Probably one of my top 3 favorite games ever, ever....huge fan to the point of collecting every action figure, having one of the 2K bottles from the Something In The Sea campaign for BS2, having an official crow splicer mask...

This Saturday night on Spike they're FINALLY going to show a new trailer for BioShock Infinite, which is easily my most anticipated game right now.

https://p.twimg.com/Af80cq7CQAEi6Rz.jpg

[Pillfred]

I never finished that game as i was still pretty into DOD:S at the time but now that i have no internets and lots of free time coming up when school is out I've been thinking about getting back into it. I really enjoyed it but at the time I was getting pretty burnt out on fps games. I have a better GFX card now too so i should be able to crank up the affects a bit more as well.

[Wretchedest]

You know, I never got around to that rad Bioshock 2 DLC everyone was talking about... some one stol my copy.
Infinite looks Insane... really once you get past the awesome visuals and newly adapted aesthetic, you realize that the gameplay is on a scale that's never really been done before, with the rails and blimps and mobs, it looks nuts. and I'm really digging the implications behind that chicks world warming powers

My Thesis was on Bioshock... should I share it?

[october_midnight]

Uhh....yes.

[Wretchedest]

It's very lengthy. So I removed citations.... also, double post coming up:
Ayn Rand and the Bioshock Franchise: A Dialogue
By Fred Nelson

Ayn Rand is a controversial figure in both literature and politics. Her philosophy, Objectivism, holds that “knowledge and values are objective, not intrinsic or subjective,” (Kelley, 2000) which means that all beliefs proposed by her and subscribed to by her followers are nearly impossible to debate. This, combined with her strong stance against environmentalism, “The danger to mankind is environmentalism” (Berliner, 1995). Being a philosopher, she was a staunch supporter of individualism or as she put it “selfishness” which, by her account was a term deliberately used to upset people. (Rand & Branden, 1964)
Rand chose to espouse her philosophy most often through writing, both non-fiction and fiction. In the latter, Rand carefully used characters and circumstance as metaphors, examples and representatives of her philosophy. As can be seen in her notes for The Fountainhead (Signet, 2008), Rand clearly identifies characters as “a man who is as he should be” or “a man who will never be.” (Rand, 2008 p. 696) She called this style Romanticism, “It does not record or photograph; it creates and projects. It is concerned—in the words of Aristotle—not with things as they are, but with things as they might be and ought to be.” (Rand, 2008 p. V)
Regardless of how one views her philosophy, she was, at the very least, an effective communicator and a confident idealist. “If anyone can pick a rational flaw in my philosophy,” she challenged, “ I will be delighted to acknowledge him and I will learn something from him.” She also claimed that she was “the most creative thinker alive.” (Burns, 2008 p. 2) Decades have passed since Ayn Rand’s death (Burns, 2008 p. 1) and we are left to question who she would consider a suitable opponent.
One possible candidate seems to have emerged in a somewhat improbable field, that of gaming. It is difficult to imagine Ayn Rand sitting on the couch engaged in a modern video game, but one must wonder what Rand would have thought of Bioshock. Bioshock comes across as a direct challenge to Rand and her objectivist philosophy. In the game Bioshock, players travel to an underwater city known as Rapture. Rapture is a city, according to creator Ken Levine, built by someone who is “one of Rand’s characters if he were put in the real world.” (Kotaku, 2008) That someone’s name is Andrew Ryan, whose name is an anagram of Ayn Rand. “In what country is there a place for people like me?” asks Ryan on a plaque found, presented in gold against a giant sculpture of Ryan. Rapture, apparently, “a city where the artist would not fear the censor, where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality…” (Irrational Games, 2007) According to Ken Levine, “Rand’s characters are super heroes, great people without flaws.” (Kotaku, 2008) If Andrew Ryan is a caricature of Rand’s characters, and Rand’s characters are intended as embodiments of her philosophy, then perhaps Rapture is a caricature of Rand’s philosophy as a whole. This allegory type approach seems to fit with her processing of Romanticism, allowing Levine to tackle Rand on her own territory.
Rapture is clearly named for an event in the bible in which Christians are gathered to meet Christ. (1 The 4:17 New International Version) Since in this case, Objectivists are gathered to meet Andrew Ryan, this may reference the cult like nature of Rand’s philosophy and followers. Rand was a strict Atheist, “Faith… is extremely detrimental to human life,” but it could be suggested that she saw philosophy as a sort of worthy religion, “religion is an early form of philosophy.” (Rand, 1995) Readers, followers, and avid fans of her work have formed multiple organizations and institutes dedicated to the practice of her philosophy, such as the Ayn Rand Institute. Many libertarians seem to view her as some sort of prophet for that movement, “My very first exposure to Libertarianism was through Ayn Rand” claims one such individual. (Hornberger 2005) Pop culture has even developed a term for such followers: Randroids. (Johnson, 2010) Rand rejected this notion, “…the “libertarian” hippies, who subordinate reason to whim, and substitute anarchism for capitalism.” (Rand, 1995)
As the player descends into the depths of Rapture, he or she is introduced to Levine’s concept of Rand’s vision applied to real world politics: a dilapidated, blood soaked dungeon swarming with violent drug addicts and ruled by ego maniacs. Each of the individual areas in Rapture represents some sort of industry. Early on the player visits a hospital, a theater, a farm and eventually research and housing. Using this approach, Levine is able to address Rand’s philosophy on an industry basis.
By her own account, Rand’s philosophy, Objectivism, is distinctly egocentric. In her novel, The Fountainhead Rand’s ideal man is Howard Roark, (Rand, 2008 p. 696) an architect with uncompromising vision. He wants the buildings he designs to be built exactly the way he designed them, without compromise and especially without the intrusion of the style or vision of another. He refuses to bow to the standards or expectations of others. He goes as far as to pay for the majority of a bill for his design simply so that it can meet his own standards.
Another character in the novel is Peter Keating. Keating is a successful and esteemed architect who does absolutely everything he is expected to do. He adheres to the strictest guidelines of architectural aesthetic, and has no ideas of his own. He earns a great deal of admiration from the public because of this. Rand’s narrative refers to him as “an empty bitter wreck” (Rand, 2008 p. 696) painting acts of selflessness as low in nature.
Early on, Bioshock attempts to apply this attitude towards healthcare. As the player enters Rapture’s medical wing, a phrase is scrawled on the wall in blood “Aesthetics are a moral imperative.” (Irrational Games, 2007) We soon learn through a series of audio recordings, and other such wall writings that most of Rapture’s medical industry has been devoted to plastic surgery. Medical advancements have progressed so far that health concerns are rarely an issue, and the abuse of certain popular drugs have left many hideously deformed, spiking the popularity of ballroom masques in fashion. Observing the propaganda littered throughout Rapture, its denizens see no excuse not to “upgrade” their appearance.

In the medical pavilion, the player meets Dr. Steinman, the head doctor. Over the course of his stay in Rapture Steinman’s view of his work has changed from that of a service professional to that of an artist. The player sees the results rather vividly: horrid mutilation and deformity.
“When Picasso became bored of painting people, he started representing them as cubes and other abstract forms. The world called him a genius! I've spent my entire surgical career creating the same tired shapes over and over again… wouldn't it be wonderful if I could do with a knife what that old Spaniard did with a brush?” (Irrational Games, 2008)

[october_midnight]

I'll read it when I get home from work in a few hours...stoked!

[Wretchedest]

With this in mind, it seems as though Bioshock is not being true to Rand’s philosophy, which proposes “rational selfishness.” (Rand & Branden, 1964 p. 1) However, Ken Levine is hardly out to completely assault Rand’s ideas, “I find a positive in [objectivism].” (Kotaku, 2008) Indeed, Bioshock represents many of the ideas within Objectivism that could be deemed positive. Both Bioshock and Objectivism find value in individuality and creativity. The gameplay in Bioshock centers around the players decisions about how they want to play the game. The player chooses which sorts of abilities he or she wants to use. Therefore the players approach or solution to a given problem or situation is there own individual creation or idea. Each player has there own way of going through the game.
Bioshock 2, though lacking the participation of Ken Levine, refers to Objectivism. In the sequel, Andrew Ryan, the founder of Rapture, has been dead for over a decade. In his stead, a psychologist named Sophia Lamb, has taken it upon herself to become the new leader of Rapture. Lamb’s political view is a polar opposite of Ryan’s, and therefore Rand’s, “She is a very different thinker, Based on John Stuart Mill and Karl Marx,” says game developer Jordan Thomas. (Williams, 2010)
In Rand’s Anthem society has been reduced to a dystopian world where people have no sense of self, no name, and the government has erased the concept and the word, ”I.” (Rand, 1996) Lamb’s Rapture is not much different from this world. She literally tries to fuse the consciousness and being of each person in Rapture into one individual through some sort of science fiction process. Therefore the key stakes in the conflict are the protagonist’s individuality and self.
Still, like original, the game offers a sense of balance. In this case that balance comes from a key father-daughter relationship. In the game, the player plays what is known in Rapture as a “Big Daddy.” Big Daddy’s are protectors of an important element in Rapture, Little Sisters. The Little Sisters are little girls that act as gatherers of an important energy source and material in Rapture, known as Adam. Adam, like its biblical counterpart, is the basis for civilization in Rapture. Every technological advancement and science fiction invention in the Bioshock world comes from it, including the aforementioned medical advancements. It is also highly addictive and an important, coveted resource. Everyone in Rapture has a desperate craving to for Adam, especially the aforementioned violent addicts. To protect these little girls, the scientists at Rapture created the Big Daddies. Bioshock 2 works hard to foster the relationship between the players and the little sisters. The player must guide them along and protect them as they collect Adam throughout Rapture. A lot of time and energy is put into making sure they are all right.
Ayn Rand chose deliberately to have no children, (The Ayn Rand Institute, 1995) so one is left to wonder if this is the sort of self-sacrifice that would garner her approval. The Big Daddy’s of the game gain nothing in return for there services. Essentially, they are slaves to the charity of protecting the little sisters. Rand has long been criticized for her views on charity, “If all you do is go around trying to find victims of tsunamis to help, I think that is mistaken, I don’t think you can find fulfillment in life by living off tragedy,” Says Peter Schwartz, former chairman of the Board of Directors of the Ayn Rand Institute. (Schwartz, 2008) The Big Daddies live this life, and depending on how Bioshock 2 ends, as there are a number of possible endings, it could be that the protagonist did find such fulfillment.
In the end, the Bioshock franchise leaves you to decide whether or not to embrace the virtue of selfishness. Both games have multiple moments where the player is left to decide what to do with an unprotected little sister. The player may choose to “harvest” the little sister, killing her. The player may also choose to “save” the little sister, allowing her to live, and absolving her of the parasitic slug, which is the source of her power. Bioshock attempts to provide reasoning for both decisions, as initially the decision can be extremely easy. One of the main characters in the game, named Atlas with a distinct lack of subtlety, argues that the girls are no longer human, “that’s not a child anymore,” he claims. (Irrational Games, 2007) If the player “Harvests” the little sister the protagonist gains more Adam, enabling him to become more powerful. This is clearly an act of selfishness. If the player “saves” the little sister, he does not receive the same payload of power, and instead is rewarded only with the satisfaction of helping others.
It could never be said for sure if Rand would ever have chosen to take arguments from a gaming franchise seriously. Bioshock provides a dialogue with writings that have long been left uncontested by other narrative media. In retrospect, both Ayn Rand’s writings and the Bioshock franchise represent extreme worlds with mostly unrealistic characters and situations. They utilize “things as they are” or “things as they ought to be” “not… things as they are.” (Rand, 2008 p. V) With this in mind perhaps it is best to take what either of them say not just with an open mind, but perhaps also with a grain of salt.



So what do y'all think?

[Space Suicide]

I own and have played Bioshock 2. yet to beat it, lack any drive to either.

[Lisbeth]

Thanks for this thread. Now I remember what game my son wants me to pre-order.

[Piko]

Hopefully there will be some kinda of release date with the new trailer. Even if it just says "spring", I'll be happy. Anything!

[thelastdisciple]

The first Bioshock was amazing, i sat and played that one straight for hours on end for something like 5 hours a night.....fell in love with the aesthetics of the city, all the brass and Jules Verne-20,000 leagues under the sea kind of style, the old timey music ooo just loved it, i found every audio tape, upgraded all weapons fully, hacked practically every device that i could. I loved so much that you could take the bathysphere and back track to the past areas to get the audio journals that might have been missed. Had a lot of fun finishing the story campaign.

I was so full of adrenaline and a high from that game i immediately went and got the second one, a discounted limited edition for 35 dollars no less with the vinyl and cd soundtracks, art book and posters. Started up the game and maybe got half way through it and i still have yet to finish it for some reason :S

Think i overindulged in the first game and just completely lost interest or motivation to keep playing the sequel, i haven't touched it for months... i really hope i can revisit the game and get some of that enjoyment back as Infinite definitely looks like a MUST play and i wouldn't want to leave Bioshock 2 still waiting in the wind if decide on playing Infinite.

[Wretchedest]

Bioshock 2 is surprisingly great. In some ways its much more focused, and the gameplay is improved in some dramatic ways.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

Bioshock 1 and 2 are still among my favorite games. Bioshock was fantastic on its own, but Bioshock 2 came along and improved on everything, without any disappointment, to me. And the special edition that came with it is still probably the best video game investment I've made. I have yet to get my prints framed, but I plan to once I move in June.

Anyone think they'll offer a huge, awesome special edition with Inifinite? I'd imagine they would. More and more games (particularly franchises) seem to be going more balls-out for them. Either way, I'll probably throw down for whatever the "biggest" version of the game is. Not just for the game itself, but because the atmospheres and settings for these games are always in a league of their own. They're really beautiful.

Shit, now all I wanna do is play Bioshock 2. Must...focus...on...essays...I can play all the games I want after Thursday...

[october_midnight]

Ken Levine announced that there definitely will be a collector's edition for Infinite, and the IG store is opening soon with shirts, prints, and the murder of crows bottle.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

Ahhh! Excited. My girlfriend's gonna roll her eyes at the video game stuff I'll have hung up in our apartment. :D Between the BS2 stuff, the 8 Assassin's Creed prints I'm gonna frame together, and all the random game posters from gamestop and what not, we'll have a wall full.

[theburningreptile]

I can't wait for this game. Bioshock is one of my favorite games. I'll be interested to see what the do with the Bird. I also liked how Elizabeth made you both rip time in to by going to the 80's. Bring it on!

[JessicaSarahS]

Hnnnngh. Love Bioshock 1 & 2. Probably the only games that I have finished to completion multiple times over. I love the environments, storyline, gameplay, everything! I'm a bit wary of infinite. I'm going to play it, but it does not have that same Bioshock aura to it that made me fall in love with the first two. I know they had to change it up, but it really does not feel the same. Also, I am annoyed that they're making the player have a sidekick. I know they said there will be minimal interaction with her, but I cannot help but think of Resident Evil 4 where I would just leave Ashley in a crate for long periods of time while I got my shit done. If we have to run around with this girl in Bioshock, I'm going to leave her in another damn crate if possible! :mad:

[xmd 5a]

Infinite is my most anticipated game of 2012 (with Mass Effect 3 and Darkness 2 not too far behind). I really wish there were more games with a similar "feel" to the Bioshock series. Dead Space is about as close as I've found- exploration of an abandoned, mysterious, atmospheric place that is filled with zombie analogues that you can dispose of with a variety of weapons/methods and topped off with a very basic RPG-esque character upgrade system.

[october_midnight]

New BioShock Infinite trailer from last night's VGA's. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4Y_YVOC2sU)

Looks siiiiiick!

[Piko]

This is my most anticipated game of 2012. Many other great games, but THIS is the one I really want. If and when I hear anything about a release date or window, I'll lose my shit. Wait is killing me. Still rabid for FF Versus XIII, and this even has that beat.

[october_midnight]

'1999 Mode' announced for BioShock Infinite. (http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/720009/bioshock-infinites-1999-mode-designed-for-old-school-gamers/)

[october_midnight]

BioShock Infinite will be released on October 16, 2012. There will 'almost certainly' be a collector's edition and IG games says the game 'dwarfs' the original in size, story, and action.

FUCK. YES.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

BioShock Infinite will be released on October 16, 2012. There will 'almost certainly' be a collector's edition and IG games says the game 'dwarfs' the original in size, story, and action.

FUCK. YES.

Between this and Assassin's Creed III, I'm going to be broke and unproductive my first semester at a university. Which, one way or another, was probably gonna happen anyway. I just hope that the collector's edition is as great as Bioshock 2. Not that it matters - I'm getting it regardless. :P

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

Bioshock: Infinite on PS3 will include a free copy of Bioshock included on the disc, too! I've still got my disc copy, but now maybe I could use that one as a loaner copy or something.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/121/1219821p1.html

[Space Suicide]

Bioshock: Infinite on PS3 will include a free copy of Bioshock included on the disc, too! I've still got my disc copy, but now maybe I could use that one as a loaner copy or something.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/121/1219821p1.html


People whine about Microsoft getting exclusive deals? Please.

[Jinsai]

People whine about Microsoft getting exclusive deals? Please.

Yeah, what an amaaaaaaazing exclusive deal! I get a free game that I already own (and I could buy new for less than 10 bucks at this point). That's way better than timed exclusive DLC content for Skyrim! I'd much rather get a second copy of Bioshock 1 than have The Witcher 2 on my PS3! This is way better than having a year's head start on DLC for GTA IV and Fallout 3! This even makes up for the fact that Bioshock came out on the PS3 more than a year after it was released for Xbox and PC! Who cares if PS3 players get the multiplayer maps for every popular FPS a month late! At least we get a free copy of Bioshock in 2012!

Or maybe the reason they're doing it on PS3 and not Xbox is because the game easily fits on the Blu Ray with room to spare.

Anyway, the game looks good, but October is a long ways off. I can't keep looking forward to it til it comes closer to the date. Same goes for the Vita game, though it'd be nice to see some screenshots of that.

[xmd 5a]

BioShock Infinite will be released on October 16, 2012. There will 'almost certainly' be a collector's edition and IG games says the game 'dwarfs' the original in size, story, and action.

FUCK. YES.

GOTY. Calling it already.

[Piko]

GOTY. Calling it already.

I'd be amazed if it doesn't. But I wouldn't be entired surprised if it doesn't... It's no call of duty.

[Space Suicide]

Could someone tell me the massive acclaim and appeal of this game series? I own and enjoy Bioshock 2 but I don't seem to get why such the massive acclaim that it has? It's a cool atmosphere, the story is all right and the gameplay is good but what's the universal fanboyism?

I AM NOT KNOCKING ANYONE. I am just curious is all. Everywhere else I look has douchebags telling off people asking the same question that I am now.

[Piko]

It's fun. The story's different from your average game these days. Very philosophical. The first two games had far more going on than the common "kill the baddie". The lore is what makes everything works; from Andrew Ryan and Sophia Lambs opposing philosophies.

[october_midnight]

Here we go. IG announces a new enemy, the Motorized Patriot. Video includes brief new gameplay, makes me shit pants.

Booyah. (http://gamershavennews.com/2012/03/meet-bioshock-infinites-motorized-patriot/)

Is it October yet?

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

That's one of the coolest ideas for an enemy I've seen in Bioshock so far. They need to hurry up and announce their collector's edition so I can fork over my money already!

[october_midnight]

Same here, I don't care what it's in it or how much it is. I'm bloody sold.

[october_midnight]

Article about Ken Levine's upcoming interview with Kotaku. (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2401349,00.asp)

The line that jumped out at me is: DeWitt begins the game in the underwater city but must make his way to the "aerial city of Columbia" to rescue a "girl named Elizabeth," Levine told Kotaku.

Is this a typo or confirmation that the universes are the same from the original BioShock and Infinite?

edit: Hmm after reading the actual Kotaku article, he doesn't actually say that so it's probably out of context. My bad. Still, the Kotaku article is an interesting read.

[october_midnight]

Spoke with Randy from NECA a little while ago, he told me that the first wave of action figures will almost definitely have Booker DeWitt, Elizabeth, and 'at least 1 if not 2 more figures'. I'm assuming it's going to be Comstock but I'll take anything...fingers crossed for a Songbird too, that'd be dope. Also we should be getting word soon on the Skyhook replicas and Columbia statues, both of which I'll probably end up getting.http://toyfair2012.figures.com/data/584/DSCN7454.JPGhttp://toyfair2012.figures.com/data/584/medium/DSCN7450.JPG

Since they're separate here, I doubt they're part of what'll come in the Collector's Edition, but still. Do want.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

Do want indeed! I need more Bioshock swag. I still need to frame and hang those posters that came with the Bioshock 2 CE.

[october_midnight]

BioShock Infinite will be slightly different every time you play it depending on your in-game decisions. (http://www.gamebandits.com/news/bioshock-infinite-your-game-actions-have-consequences-36918/)

[october_midnight]

Xplay had an exclusive clip earlier tonight (they promised more to come) about the Handyman character. Once the embargo clears they'll have it online. Awesome since I always dug the character and according to Ken Levine, the character has a 'sad backstory'. It's getting exciting now...

[october_midnight]

Boom. Heavy Hitters Pt. 2 - 'The Handyman'


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eDgjiy8JRc&feature=player_embedded

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

I have a feeling that this is gonna have the same great adrenaline-rush feeling that Bioshock 1 and 2 always had, and that's VERY awesome. I'm definitely looking forward to playing this at our apartment and yelling, "SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIIIIT!" :P

[Piko]

Damn, this looks very exciting.

[october_midnight]

Newest villain revealed on xplay (video tomorrow): The Boys of Silence. (http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/721838/meet-bioshock-infinites-boys-of-silence/?cmpid=sn-120221-twitter-na-twitterfantrack)

http://files.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/294112_S/Meet-BioShock-Infinite-Boys-of-Silence---embargo-31912-4pm.jpg

http://files.g4tv.com/ImageDb3/294114_S/Meet-BioShock-Infinite-Boys-of-Silence---embargo-31912-4pm.jpg

Creeeepy shit.

[Piko]

Wow, that's just bizarre. Pretty damn cool looking though.

[SeeOhDeeWhy]

God damn it, I wish I had the willpower to not look at any of these videos or pictures. Going into this game blind would've been so much more amazing, but it will still be amazing anyway.

[sentient02970]

I agree, I'm so psyched up for this game but it's that kind of game where knowing less has far more impact on that first playthrough. The original Bioshock did that to me very well.

[october_midnight]

Don't watch this then.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btA07qRZR4Q&feature=player_embedded

[Space Suicide]

Bioshock 2 has the Deal of the Week schtick on Xbox. I am contemplating buying the single player DLC(since they are now only 400 MSP this week) but I dobt I will.

[october_midnight]

BioShock comics? (http://kotaku.com/5894965/crossover-ken-levine-explains-why-there-arent-any-bioshock-graphic-novels-and-the-comics-artists-he-absolutely-adores)

I think it'd make a sick graphic novel.

[Wretchedest]

BioShock comics? (http://kotaku.com/5894965/crossover-ken-levine-explains-why-there-arent-any-bioshock-graphic-novels-and-the-comics-artists-he-absolutely-adores)

I think it'd make a sick graphic novel.

Thank God gaming has someone like Ken Levine who takes the medium seriously and doesn't just want to poop his IP all over the place. We need so much more of that for the medium to grow up.

[october_midnight]

New Year's End (http://newyearsend.com/)

Fan-made short BioShock movie...pretty slick!

[october_midnight]

Ken Levine discusses Infinite's basis in American history, including jazz. (http://kotaku.com/5896452/jazz-teddy-roosevelt-and-jumping-off-the-edge-ken-levine-talks-about-what-makes-bioshock-infinite-tick)

TAKE MY MONEY NOW.

[october_midnight]

G4TV's last exclusive villain reveal was The Siren. Female villain that can resurrect the dead you've already killed while you fight her. Video tomorrow.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

Ken Levine discusses Infinite's basis in American history, including jazz. (http://kotaku.com/5896452/jazz-teddy-roosevelt-and-jumping-off-the-edge-ken-levine-talks-about-what-makes-bioshock-infinite-tick)

TAKE MY MONEY NOW.

Gaaaaah, I feel like Bioshock and Assassin's Creed are going to have a more American influence on me than any social studies class I took before high school. :P

[october_midnight]

The Siren


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOts__QlUHo&feature=player_embedded

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

"And the award for 'Most Frustrating Enemies in a Video Game' goes to..."

SO HYPED.

[WorzelG]

I'm slowly playing through Bioshock 2 which is great, I'm not too hot in combat though, just got the research camera, I basically got brought back to life about 4 times in the vita chamber when fighting the Big Sister, I'm on the easy level too!

Somebody got it me for a present so I don't have the first one, so it's great for me that it comes free with the PS3 version of Bioshock Infinite.

That George Washington enemy looks fantastic, I have no idea what is so appealing about it, it just looks cool

[october_midnight]

Oh man, the first is the best! Play through that and then come back and roll through the second one as the storyline is connected throughout.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

Oh man, the first is the best! Play through that and then come back and roll through the second one as the storyline is connected throughout.

I'm playing through the first one on Survivor difficulty without Vita Chambers to get those last couple trophies. I don't think I've ever almost broken my controller this many times playing ONE game. I'm finding myself looking around entire levels for places where I can hide from a Big Daddy and take cheap shots at it when it can't hit me. But the "exploding tank covered in proximity mines" trick cuts Big Daddy health down to half, so that helps. And the research bonuses.

[october_midnight]

Some concept art from PAX East, including new models of the Motorized Patriot. (http://www.theverge.com/gaming/2012/4/9/2935842/bioshock-infinite-concept-art-revealed-at-pax-east-panel)

[BenAkenobi]

looking how you're psyched about Bioshock, i can't not ask what other games arouse you on equal levels?

by the way, isn't the Siren simply a reimagination of Archvile from DOOM?

[Piko]

It's certainly the one I'm anticipating the most. But it isn't the only. Especially when there's two other games coming out that month (RE6 and AC3).

[xmd 5a]

It's my most anticipated too. With Borderlands 2, Far Cry 3 and Assassin's Creed 3 coming out around the same time, the tail-end of this year is going to be hectic.

[Space Suicide]

It's my most anticipated too. With Borderlands 2, Far Cry 3 and Assassin's Creed 3 coming out around the same time, the tail-end of this year is going to be hectic.

They always put out the best, most wanted ones around Halloween-Christmas for the holidays. Douchebags. This game isn't really on my list but I am looking forward to Assassin's Creed 3, Tomb Raider and Borderlands 2 for the latter half of the year (post-June).

[october_midnight]

looking how you're psyched about Bioshock, i can't not ask what other games arouse you on equal levels?

by the way, isn't the Siren simply a reimagination of Archvile from DOOM?

Yeah the Siren gives me that vibe as well haha. As for games that have my interest piqued right now, this and Borderlands 2 are tops, then Dishonored. I usually just pick up games to try them if they look good lol. When I preordered BioShock 2 and Borderlands 2, I ended up saying 'aww fuck it' and picking up some more haha. Until I realized at the counter my bill was over $400. :/

[Wretchedest]

odd because I love bioshock maybe as much as you do, but I fucking hate borderlands.... more like boringlands AHAHA!

:P

[october_midnight]

LOL it's definitely not for everyone haha.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

(Edit - this is about Bioshock)

I think that it just depends on what kind of game a person gets into the most (which is kind of a no-brainer statement, yeah...). But I've got a friend who loves the game because he can run around and kill shit all the time. He's not really into "philosophy" and "art" and all that good stuff, let alone when it's a major factor in any video game. As for me, it's all about the atmosphere and the tension in the city - knowing exactly why your enemies are the way the are, and that they were once normal people just like you, just does it for me. It makes them all the more terrifying. And of course, you get the more heroic and innocent characters (Little Sisters, Tenenbaum, etc.) It just shows what extremes people are capable of. I love that sort of vehicle in a video game.

Edit: What the fuck? I could have sworn I was reading the latest post, but apparently I just replied to Piko's last post on the first page regarding what he likes about the game. Oops.

I haven't played Borderlands yet, but I mean to sooner or later. I just have a ton of games I own that I feel like I should play before I dive into more.

[october_midnight]

All good points. I'm along the same lines of what I dig about it the most. Sure I got caught up in the Black Ops, MW3 craze, etc. but I always come back to these type of games that have a bit more substance.

[Piko]

Think I'm done with call of duty, at least for awhile or until they do something different. If I'm going to play an FPS, it has to have some sort of substance. A good story will certainly help. Aside from fallout, Bioshock is the only FPS on my list to play in the future.

[Piko]

Rage was great. I'm mostly tired of the "soldier of war" genre. I have no passion whatsoever to play those games. Bioshock's definitely going to be the next shooter that I buy and probably the last for awhile (maybe halo, but that's something else altogether) .

[WorzelG]

Just got to Siren Alley in Bioshock 2, those Big Sisters are scaring the crap out of me, the fact that it warns you and you have to prepare for them just makes it worse.

Anyone else feel a bit guilty killing the Big Daddies ? (I used to go around trying to save the Barneys in Half Life too)

[october_midnight]

Absolutely I did haha. In any games I play I always tend to go the (for lack of a better term) 'paragon' route, as in always being the good guy, always saved the little sisters, never harvested, etc. etc. Just one of the things in the long list as to why I love the BioShock series. You felt wrong when doing something wrong, you felt vindicated when doing something right.

The first time through both BioShock games would rank, for me, up there with the best experiences I've had playing any games. The Big Sister shrieks freaked me out at first too...the fact that you knew they were coming but not from where was an awesome element.

[Piko]

Yeah, the Big Sisters were a pain. When you hear that shriek, that's your cue to go nuts when it came to traps. And how gruesome they made harvesting look, along with the mere fact that they'really little girls, yeah, anyone would feel a little guilty. I went the paragon route, mostly. I cracked a few heads in the second game though. Who I genuinely thought deserved it.

[october_midnight]

Extremely interesting interview/article with Ken Levine discussing the overexposure of AAA titles. (http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/the-art-of-over-exposure-ken-levine-discusses-promoting-bioshock-infinite/)

I especially found the part of the ACIII creators calling Creed III a 'backdoor new IP' since it's the same universe but with a new character and essentially a new game altogether. I've heard that elsewhere online, that there are a ton of similarities, but climbing, battle, etc. are straight up not the same as previous Assassin's Creed titles. But I digress...

I sort of agree with those opposing announcing Infinite too soon...it seems like foreeeeever ago since the first big reveal. I remember where I was actually and what I was doing...and it's been years lol.

[thelastdisciple]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/545190_309021929176635_194061314006031_737093_1244 469782_n.jpg

From the Facebook page.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU ...............................!

[Piko]

Very disappointed ...

[kdrcraig]

Yeah that sucks but Ken Levine said it's to make the game as great as it can possibly be

http://www.ps3trophies.org/news/news-6607-BioShock-Infinite-Pushed-Into-February-2013.html

[thelastdisciple]

That was practically the date it was supposed to come THIS year BEFORE it was pushed back to the Fall. So infuriating.

[october_midnight]

Wow. A four month delay...on top of that I'm pretty sure it will make it around FOUR or so years since the game was first announced that it's going to drop. Ugh.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU ...............................!

My thoughts exactly when I saw this. :\ But I guess it must be worth it. You KNOW they know how excited people are for this game. They wouldn't delay it for unless they really felt they had to. I'm sure the tweaks will be worth it. Bioshock was incredible, Bioshock 2 was even better (in its own ways), and I'm sure this'll set an even higher bar for whatever comes next in the Bioshock universe.

On the other hand, at least that'll be one less game for me to be playing this fall? My hands are gonna be busy enough with Assassin's Creed 3 (and a couple others, but I can't think of them off the top of my head. Maybe the ZOE HD Collection?)

[Piko]

There's a rumor that it also got pushed back because of GTA5. I'm pretty disappointed, but at the same time, there's so many other games coming out in October. So I guess it's sort of OK.

[Zimbo]

They also announced that Infinite will not be at E3 or Gamescon this year too.

[Piko]

Nope. We're probably not going to be hearing much of anything until the new year probably. According to what Levine said.

[october_midnight]

Pretty solid article discussing the possible reasons behind Infinite's delay. (http://www.1up.com/news/bioshock-infinite-13-delay-possible-reasons?utm_campaign=twposts&utm_source=twitter)

Interesting about the job posting Irrational posted for a network programmer. I honestly don't want to see multiplayer in it at all. And hell, I'm one of the few that dug the hell out of BioShock 2's MP!

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

I really need to try out the multiplayer for Bioshock. And for every other game I own that features multiplayer. :P

Also, funny about the rumor regarding GTA5. I was just wondering when that was gonna get here.

[Jinsai]

Wow. A four month delay...on top of that I'm pretty sure it will make it around FOUR or so years since the game was first announced that it's going to drop. Ugh.

It could be worse... I've been waiting patiently since early 2006 for Final Fantasy Versus XIII to come out, and so far we've only seen one gameplay video and one CG trailer, and no release window has been even hinted at yet. I'm starting to wonder if it will ever come out.

anyway, while I'm in here, has anyone seen the underwater hotel they're building in Dubai? It almost looks like it was designed from the Bioshock storyboards

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bvheyhOJ5co/TZQNWDbft7I/AAAAAAAADtI/EhsY5qZl3hM/s1600/4.jpg

Apparently you travel by submarine into the main docking bay, and then you enter a sealed-off room that drains before letting you out.

[october_midnight]

Holy shit that's so sick.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

I saw that a while back! Expensive as shit, though.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

Irrational Games re-launched their online store. And needless to say, I want to buy nearly every fucking thing they have.

https://store.irrationalgames.com/Default.aspx

https://store.irrationalgames.com/images/Assets/other-andreryanfig-detail.jpg

https://store.irrationalgames.com/images/Assets/apparel-wovenchainshirt-detail.jpg

https://store.irrationalgames.com/images/Assets/other-songbirdposter-detail.jpg

[october_midnight]

Was just coming to post that. Had to splurge on the Andrew Ryan figure and Songbird print. $115 plus shipping for both though...sigh. Was hoping that the Murder of Crows bottle would be under a hundred as well, but $500?? Something tells me spending almost a third of a paycheck for a plastic bottle would make the better half question my sanity LOL.

Still deciding on if I want any of the shirts or hoodies or whatnot, will probably wait to see if they put more up.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

I'm still not sure if I wanna get that print or the shirt I posted. It's pretty slick...But it's $50. Then again, I don't spend much money on clothes anymore, so why not splurge a bit on one?

It's not like I don't have the money to spare, what with the release date of Infinite being pushed back.

[Space Suicide]

Just beat Bioshock 2 today, not a bad game and I had fun with it. I still don't understand the hype though.

been playing multiplayer this morning, a bit fun but grows old quick.

I need to get the first game sometime.

[Wretchedest]

Ive never inderstood a lot of the HATE the sequel gets. I was a major skeptic, but story and gameplay pulled through rather hard.

[october_midnight]

Agreed, and there's no other pair of games that needs to be played in order more than BioShock.

[Piko]

I love the second game. The first one's better, obviously. But, the second one was very good as well. Gameplay was more refined. A lot of fun. Story just wasn't what people expected, so they shit all over it.

[october_midnight]

Hmmm...I always loved the story of the second one too haha...I must be in the minority. :/

[Piko]

Story-wise, it's very different from the first one. Easily. They went with the more Emotional approach that time around, while still retaining some of it's philosophical edge as well. I thought it was well done for what it was, and still very thoughtful.

Edit: Also, they managed to answer questions left from the first game. And my the end of the game, I was left feeling pretty sympathetic for Delta and the other Big Daddies. And if you play Minerva's Den, that's another fine example of that. Just could've used a bit more Tenenbaum. Sinclair wasn't a bad touch though.

[october_midnight]

Agreed, I at least felt that they put a TON of time and planning in to the story, but I think they knew the shoes they had to fill and you can't get much more daunting than BioShock. As for the multiplayer, I played the shit out of it lol...it was basic, but I dug it.

[Piko]

They had giant shoes to fill. Levine didn't want to do another game in Rapture, so 2K had to pick up the slack. And considering all of that, they did an exceptionally well job. The story isn't nearly as dark as the first one, which probably bugs people. But, like the first one, it had it's thought provoking moments. That's Bioshock in a nutshell. Infinite will be exactly that as well, minus Rapture.

[xmd 5a]

The way I see it BioShock 1 had the better atmosphere and story; 2 had more refined, chaotic and overall fun gameplay. I bought and marathoned both in a 3 day period about 2 months after the second game dropped, so I have a hard time trying to pick which one I love more.

Needless to say, Infinite has been my most anticipated game for almost 2 years now and is the one I feel most confidently about in terms of meeting my massive expectations. The BioShock formula is like crack to me.

[Piko]

Depends on how you look at it, I guess. The first one was dark, insane, and hellish. While the second one had all of that, but with an added light-heartedness and optimism that the first one didn't have.

[october_midnight]

Fuck my life too much red wine.

pic.twitter.com/zt8CK2xD (http://t.co/zt8CK2xD)

First glimpse at NECA's BioShock Infinite figures.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

Irrational Games re-launched their online store. And needless to say, I want to buy nearly every fucking thing they have.

https://store.irrationalgames.com/Default.aspx

https://store.irrationalgames.com/images/Assets/apparel-wovenchainshirt-detail.jpg

I decided to finally buy this shirt, heh. I ended up spending hardly any money on myself during vacation (thanks to my awesome parents and my mom's hard-earned traveler's points), so I figured I'd treat myself to something. I wanted to get a poster as well, but I'm gonna hold out until they announce the Infinite collector's edition before I buy anything else from them.

[Piko]

I want! Won't let me order though...

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

I want! Won't let me order though...

That's kinda weird. Maybe it's a glitch on the site, or some kind of regional thing.

Also, I don't think I mentioned this here, but I was thinking about getting the two chain logos (the same one on the shirt) tattooed on my wrists. I'm just waiting to find a better parlor after I move. The new local place didn't do so hot on my first tattoo. What do you guys think?

[Piko]

Thinking it might not be working because I'm on my phone. Gonna try later on my comp when I get home.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

Shirt came in today! I wasn't expecting it so soon. I got a large, and it fits really nicely - just the right amount of tightness. (I'm 5'11 and 165 pounds).

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7109/7564192028_e51af77f8e.jpg

(Just realized I posted this twice on this board. Oh well!)

[thelastdisciple]

Is it the lighting that's making that look sorta purple-ish?

[Piko]

Is it the lighting that's making that look sorta purple-ish?

Hopefully, its the lighting... I haven't ordered it yet.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

It's definitely the lighting, haha. It's a solid gray color, just like in the store picture. My iPod's camera isn't exactly premium grade. :P

[october_midnight]

Whoa, Rod F. (@GearsViking) has officially quit EPIC games to join Irrational games, where he will take over a large portion of production of BioShock Infinite. Also, two multiplayer modes they were working on (a tower defense mode...I know....and a co-op mode) have been scrapped. The game is still on track for Feb. 2013 according to Ken Levine, and most of the original BioShock team is still on board.

[Wretchedest]

Yeah i doubt this will have a substantial impact at this stage in the game... Ken Levine being in charge... that's what matters.

But ooooh no the multiplayer modes! So tragic! /sarcasm

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

No joke. It sucks for the people who are into multiplayer, but I'll always contend that Bioshock is one of those games that would definitely be just fine without it. Gimme a great story and immersive environments to get lost in and I'm a happy clam. Having multiplayer is cool, but if it comes between finishing a game on schedule and working on fancy new multiplayer stuff, I know where my vote's going.

[Piko]

I've honestly never bothered with the multiplayer in Bioshock 2. There's a fine line between enjoying a single player game and everything that comes along with it, and multiplayer one that do what they do. Bioshock never needed it.

[october_midnight]

The first article I saw about that news yesterday was titled 'Should Infinitie Fans Be Worried?' so naturally I was like 'oh fuck' and then it says multiplayer scrapped and I was like '...what.'. The only reason Irrational apparently even considered multiplayer was to avoid fast trade ins once people finished the campaign; apparently the first game had that problem. I say just do what I did, play through it fifty more times.

[Piko]

Levine made it seem like multiplayer was doubtful since it was originally mentioned. Think the exact words were "if it makes sense, we'll do it". I don't really care about it not having the multiplayer. That's not what I'm buying it. Just like me not buying dead space 3 for the co-op (single player guy).

[Wretchedest]

If i want multiplayer ill play Halo, left 4 dead, mortal kombat. Games like this dont need it to be strong. I hate the trend where there shoving co-op and mp into everything, even more so because its always online only. Deadspace, Bioshock, and Mass Effect mp would be actuallt relevant if I could play with people in the same room.

Ive been worried that inFamous will be the next franchise suckered into this nonsense... its still a bastion of untainted purity... fingers crossed.

[october_midnight]

As do I, but again as I mentioned...remember that they know their campaigns are strong. The companies are trying to battle quick trade in times.

[Space Suicide]

I love co-op and multiplayer in games that are acceptable for it. Some games don't and never should. I didn't dislike the multiplayer in Bioshock 2 but it wasn't needed. Unless achievements are afoot for Dead Space 3 in co-op, don't consider me ever touching it otherwise.

[Piko]

I think co-op/multiplayer should make sense. Dead Space's co-op doesn't look too appealing. Resident Evil 5 suffered some from it imo. I'm glad Bioshock isn't doing it...yet.

[october_midnight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIwC9_VCZCY

[october_midnight]

Well, good news and not so good news.

Not so good news: TWO more BioShock Infinited developers have left Irrational to work for Microsoft. Hopefully Rod and Ken can keep it going...

Good news: The official Facebook page has a countdown (just over 3 days left) until a new trailer is released. You can vote for what you want to 'see more of', i.e. Elizabeth or Songbird, Zeppelins or Ziplines, Handyman or Motorized Patriot.

Also, they've been teasing images all day. My guess is a Handyman figure that'll be included in the collector's edition. Also a pic of what looks like some type of book, and one of the crow medicine bottles...exciting!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/579343_297639250349404_34635461_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/564773_297672730346056_1182721403_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/548588_297716717008324_1398833979_n.jpg

[Piko]

I'm assuming the game's close to finished now. Levine had said they were going radio silent until the game is finished and finalized. The guys who left (conveniently recent from one another) prolly stuck around until it was finished. Just have a feeling that these departures aren't going to affect anything but Irrational.

[october_midnight]

Well that didn't take long. Premium and Collector's Editions announced this morning. Collector's has all the stuff in the Premium but with a 9" Songbird statue. Premium will be $79.99 and Collector's is $149.99

I'd get the Collector's since a hundred and fifty bucks is nothing for what you get, but like I need another statue that two months later makes me think 'why did I need this again?'

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

I just finished the first installment and I immediately fell in love with this series. I heard the second game doesn't compare, but I'll keep an open mind for that.

[october_midnight]

It's not as good, but better than most that say that will lead you to believe. I still loved it.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Yea the guy at Gamestop said "Don't even bother playing it", and I was like thinking is it really that bad? Plus I found it pretty ridiculous for him to tell me not to even play it. I cannot imagine it being so bad when it still got great reviews and how the first one was so dam good. I know you are a Big Daddy in this one, but the story has to be just as good right?

[Piko]

I love the second game. Its different though. The story takes a different approach than the first one did. The story is good. But some people just can't handle when something takes a new direction. Gameplay-wise, its the same as the first game, but more refined. Also, I enjoyed the "adopt" portions of the game. But basically, if you're expecting the story to be dark and gritty like the first one, and nothing else, you'll be disappointed. But if you liked the first game and don't mind the story taking another direction, you'll probably enjoy it. The DLC, Minerva's Den, was great as well.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

The story itself in the first game was not too intricate, but it was right to the point and it went so well with how the characters and enemies were portrayed. I'm sure the second has dark elements in it, but I will go into this with an open mind once I buy it in the PS store. I'm a sucker for games that have a lot of originality and it seems like this series is one of few that still stand with that. Cannot wait!

[Space Suicide]

I liked Bioshock 2. Never played the first game. I will and should sometime but as far as the raving reviews and fandom is for this game series I don't consider myself one too much. Doesn't blow me away like everyone else.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

I'm reeeally tempted to get the Collector's Edition, since I have 4 months to come up with the money gradually, but meh...I can get everything I REALLY want (soundtrack, art book, all that) for almost nothing more than the cost of the game itself. I'd rather put the money toward that Metal Gear Rising pre-order.

[Piko]

I might just go with the 80 dollar one. Seems to have everything but the statue. Dunno. I want the collectors edition, but there's other things I want (DMC, and the Bond 50 box set which is almost 200...).

[kdrcraig]

I liked Bioshock 2. Never played the first game. I will and should sometime but as far as the raving reviews and fandom is for this game series I don't consider myself one too much. Doesn't blow me away like everyone else.

I liked the first game a lot more than the second one, never even finished it. I'll get Infinite at some point, but this series isn't something I want bad enough to pre-order.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

I might just go with the 80 dollar one. Seems to have everything but the statue. Dunno. I want the collectors edition, but there's other things I want (DMC, and the Bond 50 box set which is almost 200...).

I'm already super bummed that I can't buy AC3 on day 1, OR the ZOE HD Collection. So hopefully some kind of magic will work to where I can get at least one or the other. In a way, I'm glad Bioshock was pushed back, because I might actually be able to afford it, along with Rising and Maaaybe DMC.

[Piko]

I might not be able to get AC3 on launch day either so don't feel bad. Infact, it was kind of a blessing they delayed infinite. I had it completely paid off before the delay, so I was able to use the funds to buy Dishonored. So I get to start from scratch again, but yet I have plenty of time to pay off.

[SeeOhDeeWhy]

Holy fuck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLHW78X1XeE

[Piko]

Indeed. Holy fuck. Passed by gamestop this morning. They've already set up displays for it. Kinda early if you ask me.

[Space Suicide]

I still think this game series is overhyped to hell but I do enjoy it. The trailer looked cool. Must suffice for a pre-order. Don't know.

[Piko]

I think its going to be amazing. But I think hyping up a game as early as they have has been kinda ridiculous. Liked the things I've seen and everything, but why couldn't they just say "new Bioshock" and do without the dick tease. All three years of it. And the fact that they're hyping it again now, when its a February release is just puzzling. What about Halo? That's next month. Would make more sense to hype that up or something in this year. It was all Bioshock. Not even Call of Duty...

[october_midnight]

Yeah they've got shit up for it at my EB Games too, craziness. Gonna swing by there before work today to cancel/reinstate my preorder to get that new online game where you can unlock in-game shit. Still hands down the best video game series ever.

[sentient02970]

This is the nature of gaming retail now, it's all about preorders, release day really has little or no meaning other than being "the day you can actually legally play a new game".

[Space Suicide]

What even comes with the pre-order of this? If anything has been announced?

[october_midnight]

This is the nature of gaming retail now, it's all about preorders, release day really has little or no meaning other than being "the day you can actually legally play a new game".

Yeah totally, it just goes along with every other form of media and how retailers, theaters have realized the general population's attention span has officially dropped to zero. It's the very reason there's midnight showings of movies.

"IT'S TECHNICALLY FRIDAY. SHOW ME THE FUCKING MOVIE NOW."

I think the Revolution online flash game is a good idea...finishing it unlocks a code to redeem when the game drops for an in-game weapon, cash, and other things they haven't announced. Not like I won't be drooling when it comes out anyways...

[Piko]

I agree. But you don't see many games get promoted so early before launch like this one. You may hear a few things, but they usually keep everything close to the chest until the last month or two prior. We're not even in the holiday season yet. They could be pushing the november batch of games, but instead they're going with the one in february. Cool that it's getting all this attention, but it just seems a little too much, too soon.

[october_midnight]

Made me lol.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdt8yvHYVR1qjw5a5o1_1280.jpg

[Space Suicide]

Bioshock Infinite Officially Nixes Multiplayer (http://www.trueachievements.com/n11521/bioshock-infinite-officially-nixes-multiplayer.htm)

And who gives a shit?

[Wretchedest]

I give a shit. It's like the end of return of the Jedi over here.

[Piko]

Not a big deal for me. Seemed pretty unlikely two years ago. If the guy says "we'll add multiplayer if it makes sense". So its really no surprise (for me). I think tacking on multiplayer is getting a little ridiculous anyway. The multiplayer in Bioshock 2 was alright, but it was also very unnecessary. If only other publishers/developers (hint, hint EA. Hint, hint Dead Space 3) read the memo and know that multiplayer isn't always necessary, or a good idea.

[october_midnight]

Yeah I think we've pretty much discussed multiplayer in this game to death at this point.

[october_midnight]

I dig.

http://www.gamepur.com/files/imagepicker/6/thumbs/bioshock-infinite_boxart.jpg

[spiralout]

Just started the first one today, so far i'm digging it. Started playing it because Bioshock Infinite looks awesome, and I don't want to go into it not knowing anything about the series.

Also Bioshock 2 will be free on PS+ tomorrow. Soo I know what I'll be playing for the next month or so.

[r_z]

I must say, I liked the second game better than the first one. It's been a while since I've played the first, but I remember it dragging sooo long. Bioshock 2 was perfectly paced, in my opinion. Plus having placmids AND weapons available at the same time was a huge advancement.

Also, the "Minerva's Den" DLC kicked ass.

[october_midnight]

Some magazines have now got to play a few hours of Infinite and they all say it's unbelievable...so that's good news.

Oh yeah, also it's been delayed another month. March 26.

[Piko]

Wonder why they delayed it, again...

[october_midnight]

Ken gave his reasoning in the official blog. (http://irrationalgames.com/insider/the-world-is-about-to-change-for-bioshock-infinite-fans/)

Basically it's a last minute polishing, bug testing thing...they'd rather have a game that's delayed and awesome than rushed and garbage. I couldn't agree more. The whining (which they of course had to know would come from the internetz) will fade...if the game sucked or was buggy and needed constant patching, it'd be a tragedy for Irrational haha. Oh well, it'll give me more time to play Dead Space 3; the fact that I only have time for a handful of games a year anyways kinda makes me want them to be more spread out already lol.

edit: Also if you check out Joystiq or any of the other sites now that the embargo has lifted, they're all saying it's incredible, so I still have faith.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

I feel the same way! I think they have guts pushing the release date back. They're even giving us updates every step of the way. I wish more developers had the guts to delay a game to make it perfect and 100% ready for the customer instead of meet the initial deadline with a sloppy product (Looking at you, AC3).

Besides, now maybe I can get Metal Gear Rising mostly out of the way before I get into Infinite. :P

[Piko]

Exactly. Gives me more time to pay off AND pick up Rising. And if Rising sucks, I'll trade it, heh.

[kdrcraig]

I don't mind that delay at all. I have 4 or 5 games sitting around that I need to get through before this comes out.

[october_midnight]

Fucking. Sick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvIU1e7k7Oc

[october_midnight]

The first five minutes of the game have been released from Irrational Games. Minor spoilers obviously, but not too bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQnER1e_Er8

(Again. Fucking. Sick.)

[october_midnight]

New 'BioShock: Ultimate Rapture Edition' announced. (http://www.bioshockgame.com/ultimaterapture/home.html)

Kind of a cash grab sure, but it comes with both games, all the DLC, stickers, new level, artwork, etc. etc. I won't be getting it obviously, but if you've never played one of the first, this isn't bad for 30.

[kdrcraig]

^ Pretty nice. I would probably get that but I got the sequel free from PS+ and Infinite for PS3 is going to come with the first game. I played them both on 360 but never actually finished the second one.

[Conan The Barbarian]

I really only liked the first one, but that is one nice collection. I might pick it up for the right price.

[spiralout]

Just finished the first one last night. Holy crap becoming a big daddy after killing so many of them was pretty heavy....in my opinion at least. Very awesome game, now to start the second.

[Conan The Barbarian]

You might be disappointed with part 2.

[Piko]

That's a matter of opinion. I loved the second game. Very different, but not in a bad way. I might consider picking up the collection for the extras.

[october_midnight]

Pretty cool idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDcnWFNE_aI

[Piko]

If they delay this game again, I'll destroy something.

[october_midnight]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH9kF-9b_BU&feature=player_embedded

[spiralout]

^^^ I don't think this game could look any more awesome.

Just beat Bioshock 2, I really enjoyed it. It was interesting to see rapture from the perspective of a Big Daddy. I thought protecting the little sisters would get tedious but they gave you enough trap and defense options to keep it fresh. Now that I'm all caught up, bring on March 26th!

[october_midnight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ze71Lh3KZgQ

[october_midnight]

New trailer and another 'major' announcement on Tuesday.

Sneak peek:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIDE659gnQY&feature=youtu.be

[Piko]

If they aren't bumping up the date, I could really care less at this point about announcements. Considering going "dark" with the trailers and stuff until launch.

[october_midnight]

No. More. Delays.

BioShock Infinite has officially gone gold; '5-6 games' worth of content was cut' from the final game. (http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/02/19/bioshock-infinite-gold-irrational/)

[Piko]

I know that they changed quite a few things since the last delay (character designs, etc.). Glad it's finally finished. One more month to go...

[october_midnight]

Launch day Season Pass announced, three DLC packs for $19.99/1600 MS points. Gets you the content, a few weapon and item bonuses.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

If they aren't bumping up the date, I could really care less at this point about announcements. Considering going "dark" with the trailers and stuff until launch.

I think I've seen two trailers for this in the last year. Maybe three. I really wanna go into this game having my mind blown, and oddly enough, the delays are helping re-enforce that. :P The commitment to quality is pretty re-assuring.

[sentient02970]

The commitment to quality is pretty re-assuring.

All the interviews I've seen with Levine and his team tells me the developers and contractors really love this product and have made every effort to create something more than just "shoot what's on the screen" kind of gameplay. Sure I'm expecting the style of what we saw in the first two Bioshocks. But the environment, story and character work really holds a part in all you do with interacting in this one. I have high hopes.

[october_midnight]

13 minute gameplay video with commentary. (http://ca.ign.com/videos/2013/03/01/bioshock-infinite-the-revolutionary-ai-behind-elizabeth)

The commentary is mostly discussing the challenges with Elizabeth and is pretty interesting. Obviously what gets me pumped is the environment, it just looks fascinating to explore. Fairly spoiler-ish...

[Maury]

I am so tempted to just go ahead and pre-order this on steam but I'm trying to wait until after my birthday in case someone I know buys it for me. It's really hard to wait. Also I want to get that free X-Com unlock.

[Clownboat]

I really hope this game doesn't turn into utter shit like the last hour or so of BioShock did. For how great of a game that was, that last sequence really soured the experience.

[Piko]

From what i've read, they took precautions to avoid what they did with the end of Bioshock. Honestly, the last hour really didn't bother me as much as it does for some. Wasn't amazing, but it's not something i'd consider "bad" either. Either way, we're less than a month away from launch now. FINALLY!

[Jinsai]

people didn't like the ending to Bioshock 1? To be honest, I don't even remember very clearly what it was... the last thing I remember distinctly was the big "would you kindly" revelation. If anyone wants to remind me what happened after that (or what was so disappointing about the ending) I'd appreciate it. I just remember something about injecting a crucified Fontaine with a hypodermic needle, and then fightings some guy who ran around.

[Wretchedest]

I like the ending to bioshock 1, so I guess I'm pretty confused...

You become a big daddy, find out your a mindless drone, watch Andrew Ryan beat himself to death with a golf club, eventually you fight Fontaine, and when it goes wrong the little sisters save the shit out of you. the final sequence involves protecting a little sister. In the end you free them all or don't and live out your days surrounded by family/ loneliness.

[Conan The Barbarian]

I seriously cannot understand how anyone can not like that last hour of Bioshock. Yes the scenarios before that are so awesome, does not mean the rest of the game suffers.

[Piko]

I'm fine with the way they ended up. Some may say "anticlimatic", but I think it was fine. The game was never really about boss fights to begin with. So seeing people complaining about the fight with Fontaine just seems kinda weird with me. The game was always about the journey, not the bosses. But in a sense, I guess you can consider Steinman ans Cohen "bosses", but not really, IMO.

[Space Suicide]

So Xbox Games on Demand has the first game for $4.99 on sale. Debating on whether or not to buy it.

[Clownboat]

The last hour was immensely bad. You become a Big Daddy, go through a really tedious escort quest, and then out of nowhere the game throws a (very, very boring and bad) superpower-like boss at you. As a last hurrah, after the last cinematic, the game throws you back to the title screen without even a fade-out or credits.

The game itself was excellent on so many levels, but it's very obvious that the last hour of the game was rushed. I don't fault the developers for what they had to do, but it really put a dent in the sublime experience that came before it.

[Maury]

I found the last hour to be extremely interesting and entertaining, and satisfying.

[Clownboat]

I envy you!

[kdrcraig]

I didn't really mind the ending of the first one. It did seem a little out of place compared to the rest of the game but I still thought it was cool.

[staleincense]

Infinite does look really good based on trailers, but I'm not sure if I'll get it mainly due to my loss of interest in gaming as of late (i.e. realizing and accepting I don't even finish most of the games I begin and deciding to stop wasting my money on them, doesn't help that my brother is always hogging the Xbox). It is the only upcoming AAA game I can think of that I am really interested in at all tbh. I've never actually played the original or sequel though.

[october_midnight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4JDb_XBEu4

[october_midnight]

Oh my sweet lord...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31-NAkq8YEY

[Space Suicide]

Great trailer but still won't be a day one for me.

[october_midnight]

Amazing trailer. Gonna buy it the minute I'm off work on Tuesday.

[kdrcraig]

This is another game I really want to get but is going to have to wait until I get through some of the games I've already bought. The gameplay trailers I've seen look amazing.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

I'll have to beat GOW first so I can get the $30.00 trade-in bonus and get Bioshock.. ughhh I cannot wait but with Far Cry 3, Dead Space 3, DMC, Resistance 3.... shit I am loaded.

[october_midnight]

Game leaked, spoilers online, including the ending....go dark. Repeat, go dark.

[Hula]

Game leaked, spoilers online, including the ending....go dark. Repeat, go dark.

Thanks for the heads-up, dude! Looks like I won't be able to play this for a while as I apparently forgot it was being released this month...

[october_midnight]

No worries, apparently Irrational has a few people on a constant internet crackdown...got so bad that apparently it was even on the Wikipedia page for a few hours, fml. Now it's pretty much random assholes on Twitter. Oooh and reddit. Avoid reddit like the plague, I googled 'BioShock Infinite reddit' just to see and the first hit went to a thread where they're basically talking about the entire story freely. Fuck that business lol.

[Piko]

Joystiq gave it 5/5

[Space Suicide]

Joystiq gave it 5/5

Not saying it doesn't deserve it but I guarantee every single outlet is going to give it a perfect score. So predictable.

[Piko]

Well, to be fair. IGN gave it a 9.5/10. And those are the only two reviews I've seen so far. But I guess it should be customary to assume all the scores will be high.

[Space Suicide]

Well, to be fair. IGN gave it a 9.5/10. And those are the only two reviews I've seen so far. But I guess it should be customary to assume all the scores will be high.

I'm sure they all will be close to perfect. As said, I think the game's universe is cool and very detailed. The development is great and the atmosphere and style is top notch but I don't get the overhyped and overbearing fandom for it. I stated it several times before.

[Piko]

For me, it's the philosophies and ridiculousness. Also, they're fun as hell. And I think the stories are well written (even the second game).

[Space Suicide]

For me, it's the philosophies and ridiculousness. Also, they're fun as hell. And I think the stories are well written (even the second game).

I still fail to grasp the astounding hype or critical acclaim but I guess it's just my gaming tastes really.

For those interested:

Unlock Bioshock Infinite's Ultra Hard 1999 Mode without Completing the Game (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-03-25-you-can-unlock-bioshock-infinites-ultra-hard-1999-mode-without-completing-the-game)

[Piko]

And you never will.

[Wretchedest]

Just picked it up. Might I say, the reversible box art makes the thing actually look pretty special...

[JessicaSarahS]

I was extremely skeptical of Infinite, but I was going to buy it anyways because I'm in love with everything Bioshock, and so far this game does not disappoint! I am so happy with it. :D

[october_midnight]

Aghh working until almost midnight so decided to swing by the mall and grab it. Been so fucking busy haven't even unwrapped it. Now work until 11pm and have to go out for a beer after and then work tomorrow morning! FML.

[Piko]

Just got a free guide for picking up the game and season pass. Probably a power up promotion.

[theburningreptile]

I got this today (got the PS3 version) and it is absolutely amazing. Easily the most beautiful game I've ever seen. I've also not seen any bugs or glitches thus far and I've been playing it for about 2 hours. It still has the old Bioshock feel to me that the first two had. Game of the Year contender for me for sure. Next to Beyond: Two Souls. :D Anyway, go out and get this game. :D

[Piko]

The presentation is phenomenal. Not very far yet so I can't say much else. Feels very similar to the other two.

[Wretchedest]

I cant believe this game is exceeding its own insane hype. Awesome.

[october_midnight]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH I had time to basically enter all the codes for upgrades and season pass and that's about it.

Even the menu screens look great. Fuckssakes lol.

[sentient02970]

Ordered Premium Edition today. Delivery next week. Psyched. May plan vacation days that week,

[Space Suicide]

I just went to the store and rented it for the hell of it. I'll play it as far as I can get before I have to return it.

[JessicaSarahS]

I just finished it. I don't want to say much more, but I thought it was perfect. I may have cried a tear or two at the end because I'm a sap. :(

[Wretchedest]

I too spent all day playing this like a crackhead. The ending was solid, the story was moving. And the gane was far, far better than the original. Maybe the best game ever.

[october_midnight]

I was actually discussing this with my wife late last night. Telling her I almost wanna play an hour each day tops and make it last, since I've been waiting for this title for like four years. The talk got in to some length as to how gamers today are like movie-going audiences in that our attention span is pretty much nil. By the time BioShock Infinite even came out, it was leaked, finished, and spoiled on the net.

I remember playing SNES games for years and always going back to them. Now we get it, blaze through it as fast as humanly possible, and it's on to the next one. Kinda depressing when you think about it. Sure the games have got 'better' but it's not enough to hold the average audience's interest for very long anymore. So weird. /rant

Managed to play for about 45 minutes and got to the part where you kill the dude and get Devil's Kiss. Loving it so far, but yeah...gonna take my sweet ass time exploring every inch of the city lol.

[Piko]

Considering starting over. Got lucky and sick yesterday. So, I'm a little distracted. And it's probably interfering with my enjoyment. At the point I left off, I was very confused.

[xmd 5a]

Got it yesterday, finished it in two sessions. Absolutely mindblowing ending. Going to have to do a replay since I somehow managed to miss 25 Voxophones and 10 Sights. I explored and backtracked a lot, so not sure what I missed.

[Space Suicide]

I was actually discussing this with my wife late last night. Telling her I almost wanna play an hour each day tops and make it last, since I've been waiting for this title for like four years. The talk got in to some length as to how gamers today are like movie-going audiences in that our attention span is pretty much nil. By the time BioShock Infinite even came out, it was leaked, finished, and spoiled on the net.

I remember playing SNES games for years and always going back to them. Now we get it, blaze through it as fast as humanly possible, and it's on to the next one. Kinda depressing when you think about it. Sure the games have got 'better' but it's not enough to hold the average audience's interest for very long anymore. So weird. /rant

Managed to play for about 45 minutes and got to the part where you kill the dude and get Devil's Kiss. Loving it so far, but yeah...gonna take my sweet ass time exploring every inch of the city lol.

I'm with you. I love playing a game I love and beating it straight....sometimes. I don't understand why you wanna rush and beat a game you've waited year(s) for. Then you're done in a day or two and like huh? I spread my time out on games I enjoy. I've yet to beat Tomb Raider, yet I beat a hardcore playthrough of Gears of War: Judgment in 2 days.

I played this about an hour last night. I really just walked around, looked at shit and admired the sky and the buildings. Lots of detail put into this game. I'm liking it more than I thought. I haven't even made it to Monument Island yet and I've already clocked an hour I'm aware of. Crazy.

[Wretchedest]

I actually powered through in the interest of staying focused on my work schedule for the rest of the week! Ha! I couldnt bear the thought of waiting around at work to play it. That said the detail and environmental awesomeness taper off a bit about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way through and the broader plot ends up being put at the front. You still do the scavenging and there are still cool things to look at but it doesnt keep up the slow roll of the first 2 hours.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

Whoa, I didn't realize the 60-minute trial was up on the PSN. I can't decide if I wanna try that now, or wait until Friday to play it as long as I want.

[Space Suicide]

So guys, know how I'm not so hung up on this series even though I do like it? After some trade-ins today with bonuses look what I got for $25.34:

http://i.imgur.com/Nq9Fhh4.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qtxOtWI.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nVexLza.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4xo91x6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/vrBOX74.jpg

It was the last one! My friend took my rented copy and paid me. All is well!

[Millionaire]

Got it, beat it, loved it. I think its better than the first one, and the first one is one of my favorite first person shooters.

[JessicaSarahS]

I actually powered through in the interest of staying focused on my work schedule for the rest of the week! Ha! I couldnt bear the thought of waiting around at work to play it.

That's why I did it too. I had a large chunk of evening available last night and I didn't want to interrupt the story! I did have to go into work for three hours in the middle of a gaming session and all I could think about was the game.

Anyhoo, just because I finished the game once doesn't mean I'm tossing it aside. I'm about 75% through the second playthrough, getting all the small bits that I seemed to miss the first run through. I'm loving it just as much as the first Bioshock and I played through that thing about 10+ times. I honestly never tire of it. Meanwhile, Tomb Raider and Dishonored are still waiting for me to play. :(

[theburningreptile]

Wow, just got done beating it. That has to be the greatest game I've ever played. Wow, just wow. My mind was blown away by the ending. Get this game.

[BrokenSpiral]

Just started. Excited. See you guys in a while!

[Piko]

I was actually discussing this with my wife late last night. Telling her I almost wanna play an hour each day tops and make it last, since I've been waiting for this title for like four years. The talk got in to some length as to how gamers today are like movie-going audiences in that our attention span is pretty much nil. By the time BioShock Infinite even came out, it was leaked, finished, and spoiled on the net.

I remember playing SNES games for years and always going back to them. Now we get it, blaze through it as fast as humanly possible, and it's on to the next one. Kinda depressing when you think about it. Sure the games have got 'better' but it's not enough to hold the average audience's interest for very long anymore. So weird. /rant

Managed to play for about 45 minutes and got to the part where you kill the dude and get Devil's Kiss. Loving it so far, but yeah...gonna take my sweet ass time exploring every inch of the city lol.

Im guilty as charged for that. But, I absolutely loathe the idea of the whole "play it and trade it" philosophy. If I find the game disappointing, then I'll trade it. But if it's something I absolutely enjoy, there's no way I'd ever get rid of it.

Like a good film. Buy it, enjoy it, and enjoy it again later.

And I'm already thinking of another playthrough since this one confuses the living hell out of me, big time.

[BrokenSpiral]

Does the health bar get bigger? Can hardly take any damage before dying.

[october_midnight]

If you find infusion bottles, yes. You can choose to boost your health, shield, or salt meter. I recommend shields first though since they replenish and health doesn't.

[BrokenSpiral]

Cool. Just got my first one now.

[Piko]

I barely upgraded my health. Seemed pointless for awhile. Salt and Shields seemed like the best bet.

[Piko]

So after finishing the game, and possibly missing, one thing I just can't wrap my head around. Why is Comstock so old compared to Booker?

[Wretchedest]

So after finishing the game, and possibly missing, one thing I just can't wrap my head around. Why is Comstock so old compared to Booker?

because of his exposure to the machine, which also made him sterile. It's explained in an audio log or something

The one big thing they don't explain, which is odd because it's got its bases very well covered is the songbird. There is an audio log explaining that it is one of Fink's machinations. But I feel like that's completely insufficient... I'm almost certain that this will be covered by DLC.

[Piko]

because of his exposure to the machine, which also made him sterile. It's explained in an audio log or something

The one big thing they don't explain, which is odd because it's got its bases very well covered is the songbird. There is an audio log explaining that it is one of Fink's machinations. But I feel like that's completely insufficient... I'm almost certain that this will be covered by DLC.

Ah OK.

Heard about him being sterile. Missed that though.

Currently on my second playthrough. Already picking up on things I may have missed before. Plus, I have a better idea of what I'm doing. Skyhooks took some getting used to.

[Space Suicide]

I bought the Ultimate Rapture Edition set of the two first games yesterday and I must say, I find and like Infinite way more than those two thus far. Don't know, Rapture is really cool but I like Columbia more. Tha faqk?

[Piko]

As much as I love Columbia and everything. There's something about Rapture that I like more. Can't put my finger on it though. Not a single thing wrong with either.

[PooPooMeowChow]

I'm getting the same feeling, there's something about Rapture.
Whether it's the isolation of Rapture that made it pretty scary and really sucked you into the game. or That an underwater city is more believable than one in the clouds.
But there's defiantly a part of me that wants to go back to Rapture. lol

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

I can't help but think we'll be back to Rapture someday. I don't think we'll be done with Rapture until we see the city destroy itself.

[Piko]

Well, we do have three DLCs coming. Levine has referred to them as a "thank you" to the fans. So its definitely possible. I have a feeling it'll be awhile until we see any of that though.

But wasn't Rapture going to be a trilogy? I could've sworn they said that somewhere before the second game was released. Either way, more Rapture is always welcomed.

[Clownboat]

Whoa, that ending. Jesus.

[october_midnight]

Finally finished, and agreed...that ending.

I figured out about 4/5 the way through that Booker was Comstock but the fact that he's also Andrew Ryan pretty much blew my fuckin' mind. Oh, and RAPTURE!

[Piko]

Finally finished, and agreed...that ending.

I figured out about 4/5 the way through that Booker was Comstock but the fact that he's also Andrew Ryan pretty much blew my fuckin' mind. Oh, and RAPTURE!

What gave you that idea? I really don't think Ryan had a single thing to do with infinite. Seemed more like a fanfare moment, but also pointing out "constants and variables". A man, a lighthouse, and a city. I think that's the only purpose Rapture had in the story. I doubt they're connected. Seemed pretty vague, timeline wise. I got more of the impression that Columbia and Rapture are alike for reasons (Booker being the big daddy/protector, while Elizabeth taking on the role of the little sister.

I think they were just pointing out similarities between the two worlds.

[Space Suicide]

So I just got the Shock Jock vigor. Took a break to play a game with my friend and revisit the first game.

[october_midnight]

What gave you that idea? I really don't think Ryan had a single thing to do with infinite. Seemed more like a fanfare moment, but also pointing out "constants and variables". A man, a lighthouse, and a city. I think that's the only purpose Rapture had in the story. I doubt they're connected. Seemed pretty vague, timeline wise. I got more of the impression that Columbia and Rapture are alike for reasons (Booker being the big daddy/protector, while Elizabeth taking on the role of the little sister.

I think they were just pointing out similarities between the two worlds.

It's my theory, but being the insane BioShock nerd I am, I actually sat down and wrote it out to see if there were any holes in it, and it's pretty sound.

It's a multiverse, not only locations and times are parallel and coruscating out, but characters as well, as seen by the many Elizabeths/Annas. Knowing that, Rapture, and technically everything that happened in that story/timeline could be looked at as parallels of what happens in Columbia and this game. If you remember in BioShock, ONLY Andrew Ryan could operate bathyspheres (other than Jack who was a son/clone with the same DNA of course). When you're in Rapture in Infinite, there's signange saying that everything's on lockdown and that access to bathyspheres was denied to the public so only Ryan could do it...and you were able to use it.

Think about it, if Booker/Comstock could be different versions in different realitites, they could be Andrew Ryan/Jack as well. Both were a version of the other who goes on to murder the other in a place that was created by the latter. Booker got to Columbia via one of the lighthouses (doors to other realities) and so did Jack. Maybe his plane crashed through a tear or he went through one earlier in his life at some point?. Since the realities only had slight differences from their counterparts (i.e. Lin is alive in one but dead in another, but everything else is the same...locations of furniture, building locations, etc. etc.) then Rapture could be Columbia...but underwater instead of in the sky. I could go on and on...Plasmids = Vigors, EVE = Salts. Hell, Daisy? Atlas. Lutece? Tenenbaum, maybe? Both looking after a little girl with powers. Little Sisters = some kind of version of Elizabeth. Big Daddies = Songbird. Both mechanical and protecting the girl. Elizabeth even puts on the dress that looks like the dresses the Little Sisters could be wearing. I think everyone was so focused on finding out the mysteries of Infinite that the makers could have been like 'Let's make ALL these things alike...and people won't get it for a while...even though it's kinda blatant lol.

Again, a theory but one that I hold to be probably pretty spot on upon learning the ending with the multiverses.

Another unrelated thought... When SongBird dies in Rapture due to the pressure of the ocean, there's blood...so it's not just a robot, but underneath something living like a Big Daddy.

[Clownboat]

Yo, if you've beaten the game, read this shit. It's damn well worth it. http://peripsuche.blogspot.com/2013/03/bioshock-infinite-thematic-analysis.html