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Satyr
09-30-2014, 10:39 AM
http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/health/2014/09/29/dallas-presbyterian-hospital-ebola-patient-isolation/16460629/


DALLAS — A Dallas hospital is holding a patient in "strict isolation" as that person is evaluated for possible exposure to the deadly Ebola virus.
In a statement issued Tuesday night, Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Dallas (http://www.texashealth.org/dallas) said the patient was admitted based on symptoms and "recent travel history."

It could potentially be a matter of time until a person with Ebola makes it through a commercial airport while contagious to go to their home country.

Might have just happened.

I'm gonna go buy some hand sanitizer and bleach now.

Sarah K
09-30-2014, 10:49 AM
It's basically a lot of panic over nothing(in the US). Nebraska(where I'm from) has the largest biocontainment unit in the country. When that doctor was brought back to the United States from Liberia, they immediately took him to Nebraska. All of these assholes there were like EW SEND HIM BACK! Send him back to WHERE, you dumb shits? He is an AMERICAN CITIZEN.

Dude is fine now: http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/09/25/mass-doctor-who-contracted-ebola-ready-for-release-from-nebraska-hospital/6aEJ2Qi5VTgzAFWXq13SBP/story.html

Hopefully they can get shit in Africa under control soon, though. :( I know a guy who works at a nonprofit corporation here in NYC that deals with disaster relief. He is getting ready to travel to Liberia to hash out plans for building medical facilities over there specifically for this crisis. I wish I could work for him.

Baphomette
09-30-2014, 01:38 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj9SUJdpJS4

Baphomette
09-30-2014, 04:09 PM
CDC: Ebola confirmed in Dallas patient (http://www.wfaa.com/story/news/health/2014/09/29/dallas-presbyterian-hospital-ebola-patient-isolation/16460629/)

Your Name Here
09-30-2014, 05:03 PM
Minus the zombies in place of contagion and the Walking Dead comes to life.

Satyr
09-30-2014, 09:12 PM
It's basically a lot of panic over nothing(in the US). Nebraska(where I'm from) has the largest biocontainment unit in the country. When that doctor was brought back to the United States from Liberia, they immediately took him to Nebraska. All of these assholes there were like EW SEND HIM BACK! Send him back to WHERE, you dumb shits? He is an AMERICAN CITIZEN.

Dude is fine now: http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/09/25/mass-doctor-who-contracted-ebola-ready-for-release-from-nebraska-hospital/6aEJ2Qi5VTgzAFWXq13SBP/story.html

Hopefully they can get shit in Africa under control soon, though. :( I know a guy who works at a nonprofit corporation here in NYC that deals with disaster relief. He is getting ready to travel to Liberia to hash out plans for building medical facilities over there specifically for this crisis. I wish I could work for him.

I know a lot of people that specialize in Infectious Disease that aren't as confident as you are.....

Sarah K
09-30-2014, 09:17 PM
Yeah. Knowing "a lot of people" who specialize in that extremely specific field totally sounds like something real, and not a thing that you just made up.

DigitalChaos
09-30-2014, 10:49 PM
A whole lot of people in the USA seem to be fearful that they are likely to swap bodily fluids with a whole lot of other strangers. I'm not one to judge but... the people freaking out over ebola don't strike me as nightly attendees of power exchanges or anything like that.

Sarah K
10-01-2014, 09:38 AM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10665817_10153199865843082_3444707832609673852_n.j pg?oh=b1ed4ba8a7c13c73c05f343d4c4ed265&oe=54C3069C&__gda__=1421270009_e33f9f6b9dd9e17f9ef7d4e8a7789d7 e

Dra508
10-01-2014, 01:20 PM
Right. This isn't TB they're dealing with. I'm more afraid of that flu from a couple years ago.

DigitalChaos
10-01-2014, 01:47 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10665817_10153199865843082_3444707832609673852_n.j pg?oh=b1ed4ba8a7c13c73c05f343d4c4ed265&oe=54C3069C&__gda__=1421270009_e33f9f6b9dd9e17f9ef7d4e8a7789d7 e

don't forget semen and all the other fun body fluids.


Now... I can pretty much guarantee that I come into contact with most of this list every day I ride public transit, and Ebola can stay viable for many days outside the body. The thing is, "touching" isn't very accurate. You have to get it in an open cut or something. I think blood has the highest concentration of the virus so if it happens to aerosolize (like someone with a bloody nose sneezing) then that could infect you if you inhaled it.

So uhhhh... don't fuck used gym towels??

Satyr
10-01-2014, 04:48 PM
Yeah. Knowing "a lot of people" who specialize in that extremely specific field totally sounds like something real, and not a thing that you just made up.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/top-doc-several-people-were-exposed...more-will-be-infected-by-dallas-ebola-case/article/2554213

I guess this guy is making stuff up.

Sarah K
10-01-2014, 06:28 PM
http://washingtonexaminer.com/top-doc-several-people-were-exposed...more-will-be-infected-by-dallas-ebola-case/article/2554213

I guess this guy is making stuff up.

So, you know that guy?

That is a conservative blog. Creating panic is kinda what they do. If you read actual news sites, they all basically say "Sure, spread is possible. But highly unlikely". This isn't fucking Outbreak. People just always want something to panic about. It's like the conservative blogs are having all of their dreams come true... Something that they can cause panic over, and something where they can point fingers at other countries.

DigitalChaos
10-01-2014, 06:34 PM
The scariest thing that seems possible is if a young kid gets it and brings it to daycare. If that happened, all the kids there would swap their drool and bring it home to the parents. That's about where it would stop though. So, you'd have a sort of self-contained bubble. However, when you involve public play areas... it could get nasty.

Cat Mom
10-01-2014, 09:57 PM
I was talking with an RN who's done all kinds of specialties including infectious disease and she said the African ENVIRONMENT is really important to keep in mind: extreme heat, lack of air conditioning, lack of general hygiene that we take for granted, etc. And lots (MOST) of them contracted it from improper handling of the BODIES. Once the victims are dead, plus all those other conditions, yucko, the bodies explode contaminates.

Haven't you guys read Defoe's "Journal of a Plague Year?"

I don't understand why we're not automatically quarantining people (for a minimum of 21 days) who fly in from high-risk areas.

Cat Mom
10-02-2014, 08:15 AM
This American Texan victim was seen "throwing up all over the place" after he'd already been to a Dallas hospital but had been discharged.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/health/chi-ebola-patient-america-20141002-story.html#page=1

Article says he helped transport a pregnant Ebola victim to a hospital where she was turned away, then helped transport her back home (where she died). So "bodily fluids" he touched must be her sweat? Did nobody ask him about this incident upon his return to the US, so that he'd be quarantined?

Deepvoid
10-02-2014, 08:41 AM
All I'm hearing is how much Dallas hospital fucked this one up.

Cat Mom
10-02-2014, 09:21 AM
Yeah, sure sounds like it.

DigitalChaos
10-02-2014, 02:21 PM
Isn't the Dallas guy the one who lied to the Liberian airport/boarder authorities and is now being sued by them?

edit: yup http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/dallas-er-ebola-infected-patient-home-25908233 "In Liberia, authorities announced plans to prosecute Duncan, alleging that he lied on a form about not having any contact with an infected person."

DigitalChaos
10-02-2014, 02:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LhtEgsbTLk

Deepvoid
10-02-2014, 02:37 PM
I like this clip as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN_DpTqGbrE

DigitalChaos
10-02-2014, 03:21 PM
So much for the whole concept of superior US handling of this. Not only did the Dallas hospital send him home, here is how they cleaned up his vomit:

yes, that's a power washer.

https://i.imgur.com/RlTxwp1.jpg
https://twitter.com/wfaachannel8/status/517739906211528704

Baphomette
10-02-2014, 09:12 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10665817_10153199865843082_3444707832609673852_n.j pg?oh=b1ed4ba8a7c13c73c05f343d4c4ed265&oe=54C3069C&__gda__=1421270009_e33f9f6b9dd9e17f9ef7d4e8a7789d7 e
DigitalChaos brought up exactly what I've been wondering. If you're in a small space with someone who is incubating the virus and they sneeze, there is a chance you can become infected. Is that right? Or if you handle something (like a gas pump) that an infected person has used, could you get it?

DigitalChaos
10-02-2014, 09:44 PM
@DigitalChaos (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=598) brought up exactly what I've been wondering. If you're in a small space with someone who is incubating the virus and they sneeze, there is a chance you can become infected. Is that right? Or if you handle something (like a gas pump) that an infected person has used, could you get it?
A typical sneeze won't do it. The sneeze would have to have blood in it. There just isn't enough of the virus in saliva to transmit through the air via spray.

As for transfer via common surfaces, you'd have to have an open cut on your hand or put your dirty hands in your mouth. Ebola can stay viable outside the host for many days.

Ryan
10-02-2014, 10:42 PM
Bet ya'll wish you were 'Strayin *waves from below*

Cat Mom
10-02-2014, 10:43 PM
A typical sneeze won't do it. The sneeze would have to have blood in it. There just isn't enough of the virus in saliva to transmit through the air via spray.

As for transfer via common surfaces, you'd have to have an open cut on your hand or put your dirty hands in your mouth. Ebola can stay viable outside the host for many days.

How did the Dallas guy get the virus from helping to transport the pregnant woman to and from the hospital? This is a rhetorical question since you're not an infectious disease expert, natch. With the plague in Defoe's "A Journal of the Plague Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Journal_of_the_Plague_Year)" (a fictionalized account but with a ton of actual fact based on the Great Plague of London / Bubonic Plague (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Plague_of_London)), victims became a lot more contagious the closer they were to death; I wonder if Ebola has the same properties. It's like the virus has some kind of self-protecting properties and wants to exit the dying host.

Ryan
10-02-2014, 10:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LhtEgsbTLk


That's ridiculously good.

DigitalChaos
10-02-2014, 11:16 PM
How did the Dallas guy get the virus from helping to transport the pregnant woman to and from the hospital? This is a rhetorical question since you're not an infectious disease expert, natch. With the plague in Defoe's "A Journal of the Plague Year (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Journal_of_the_Plague_Year)" (a fictionalized account but with a ton of actual fact based on the Great Plague of London / Bubonic Plague (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Plague_of_London)), victims became a lot more contagious the closer they were to death; I wonder if Ebola has the same properties. It's like the virus has some kind of self-protecting properties and wants to exit the dying host.

He was helping carry her the day before she died (multiple family members and neighbors of her's also died). So, he was in *direct* contact. I am curious how the believe the transfer occurred though. When it is that late in the infection, vomiting and bleeding occur. Those are the highly infectious fluids.


I will admit that much of the media is downplaying the situation a bit (excluding Fox), but it is out of necessity. There is a much bigger threat to our hospitals than Ebola, and it is a panicked public overloading facilities and dramatically decreasing their ability to handle the true disease. This happens just about every time this stuff hits the news, such as H1N1. My parents are both in the medical field and treat patients. They are definitely concerned about people freaking out.

Cat Mom
10-02-2014, 11:21 PM
See this (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/10/world/africa/tracing-ebolas-breakout-to-an-african-2-year-old.html?_r=0).

See also this (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/31/world/africa/ebola-virus-outbreak-qa.html).


Officials have emphasized that people are only infectious if they have symptoms of Ebola. There is no risk of transmission from people who have been exposed to the virus but are not yet showing symptoms. You are not likely to catch Ebola just by being in proximity to someone who has the virus. It is not spread through the air like the flu or respiratory viruses such as SARS.

Instead, Ebola spreads through direct contact with bodily fluids. If an infected person’s blood or vomit gets in another person’s eyes, nose or mouth, the infection may be transmitted. In the current outbreak, most new cases are occurring among people who have been taking care of sick relatives or who have prepared an infected body for burial.

Health care workers are at high risk, especially if they have not been properly equipped with protective gear or correctly trained to use and decontaminate it.

The virus can survive on surfaces, so any object contaminated with bodily fluids, like a latex glove or a hypodermic needle, may spread the disease.

How does the disease progress?
Symptoms usually begin about eight to 10 days after exposure to the virus, but can appear as late as 21 days after exposure, according to the C.D.C. At first, it seems much like the flu: a headache, fever and aches and pains. Sometimes there is also a rash. Diarrhea and vomiting follow.

Then, in about half of the cases, Ebola takes a severe turn, causing victims to hemorrhage. They may vomit blood or pass it in urine, or bleed under the skin or from their eyes or mouths. But bleeding is not usually what kills patients. Rather, blood vessels deep in the body begin leaking fluid, causing blood pressure to plummet so low that the heart, kidneys, liver and other organs begin to fail.

DigitalChaos
10-02-2014, 11:24 PM
In terms of curious Ebola infections through seemingly indirect contact....
http://news.sciencemag.org/africa/2014/10/ebola-survivor-ii-nancy-writebol-we-just-dont-even-have-clue-what-happened?rss=1


Q: Any idea how you became infected?
N.W.: I don’t know how I became infected and how I contracted it. There are some thoughts about how I might have gotten it. Nobody is really sure, least of all me. I never felt like I was unsafe and I never felt like I walked into a situation where I was being exposed. I was on the low-risk side of things. I never was in the crisis or the Ebola center. I was always on the outside. I made sure doctors and nurses were dressed properly before they went in, and I decontaminated them before they went out. We kept a close check on each other about whether people felt safe.
We had an employee who was doing the same job that I was doing. He got sick and I didn’t know he was sick. He didn’t tell anybody. He actually thought he had typhoid. The day that I started having symptoms, at least a fever, was the last day I saw him. He did have Ebola. He did not survive.
I never remember touching him, although it’s possible he could have picked up a sprayer to decontaminate someone, and I could have picked up the sprayer. Or we touched the same thing. I never touched him.

DigitalChaos
10-02-2014, 11:48 PM
one more from me:






Dr. Thomas Frieden, CDC director [standing right next to CNN's Sanjay Gupta]: Well actually, Sanjay and I, if one of us had Ebola, the other would not be a contact right now. Because we’re not in contact. Just talking to someone is not a way to get infected. It’s not like the flu, not like the common cold. It requires direct physical contact.


CNN host Michaela Pereira: But if he sneezes on you, it’s a different story.


Sanjay Gupta: I think there’s a utility here because we’re having this conversation but I am within 3 feet of you. Wouldn’t I be considered a higher risk? My understanding reading your guidelines, sir, is that within 3 feet or direct contact — if I were to shake your hand, for example — would both qualify as being contact.


Frieden: We look at each situation individually and we assess it based on how sick the individual is and what the nature of the contact is. And certainly if you’re within 3 feet, that’s a situation we’d want to be concerned about. But in this case, where we haven’t hugged — we haven’t shaken hands — we have not had any contact that would allow either of our body fluids to be in contact with the other person.


Gupta: So, to Michaela’s point, the reason we talk about coughing and sneezing not being a concern — if you were to have coughed on me — you’re saying that would not be of concern?


Frieden: We would look at that situation very closely…

http://twitchy.com/2014/10/01/bombshell-watch-cdc-director-deny-then-admit-that-ebola-can-be-spread-by-casual-contact-video/




Blood, sweat, feces, vomit, semen and spit. Basically any kind of fluid that comes from the body. People in West Africa are avoiding hugs and handshakes because the virus can be spread through the sweat on someone's hand.


The uninfected person would have to have a break in the skin of their hand that would allow entry of the virus, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta says. But "we all have minor breaks in our skin. And there is a possibility that some of the virus can be transmitted that way."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/30/health/how-ebola-spreads/

Deepvoid
10-03-2014, 11:30 AM
If you want to see insane Ebola coverage, head to infowars. There's an article stating that terrorists are infecting themselves with Ebola in order to attack the US or something like that. I shit you not.

DigitalChaos
10-03-2014, 01:13 PM
why you deleting your posts allegro? Those were good!

DigitalChaos
10-03-2014, 01:18 PM
If you want to see insane Ebola coverage, head to infowars. There's an article stating that terrorists are infecting themselves with Ebola in order to attack the US or something like that. I shit you not.
Sounds like a normal day over there. I like to pop over there every so often just to remind myself that people like that actually exist.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ebola is a decent source for trying to see all coverage on the topic. The community is a bit... twitchy, and that requires you filter the hell out of it.

Cat Mom
10-03-2014, 02:49 PM
why you deleting your posts allegro? Those were good!
It seemed not as good as yours.

(edit: note that I only removed one link)

Charmingly Miserable
10-03-2014, 10:18 PM
All I'm hearing is how much Dallas hospital fucked this one up.
This is what is making me upset over this whole ordeal. I think that this case is handled poorly by several people. First, the Dallas hospital turned him away. Now, it has taken days for hazmat crews to come and clean up the apartment where Thomas Duncan stayed after he was discharged from the hospital.

I believe that the U.S. is not in real threat of contracting Ebola. However, if this singular case is being handled the way it is, then maybe there is a cause of concern for an outbreak here.

DigitalChaos
10-04-2014, 10:24 AM
My concern is that the Dallas situation just doesn't scale, and it happened so early in the potential spread. How many infected people can come into the country per week before we are overwhelmed?

Dallas is flying people in to help handle what happened after a single person came over. I think something like 10k people fly out of west Africa every day. What happens when the infected person goes to a less able country? 3rd world countries will be screwed. Then you have large numbers of potential infection sources just like west Africa.

Maximilian
10-04-2014, 10:54 AM
They need to figure out some strict rules for people flying out of Africa, because I (like many people in this country) certainly don't need another thing to worry about.

Cat Mom
10-04-2014, 11:40 AM
My concern is that the Dallas situation just doesn't scale, and it happened so early in the potential spread. How many infected people can come into the country per week before we are overwhelmed?
The primary reason why the Great Plague of London spread (until they finally figured out about the rats and fleas): People lied. I suspect this would also be why Ebola would spread. This Dallas idiot also lied. So, we must assume that travelers will lie. Because people don't like to be quarantined. Also, dumb computer glitches and stupid mishandling (washing vomit off the street with a power-washer). Becoming overwhelmed without any serum and only one containment area in Nebraska is a legitimate concern. They're going to have to quarantine all incoming travelers. That's the only 100% safe way to do it. If people don't like that, then don't travel to the risky areas.

DigitalChaos
10-05-2014, 01:09 PM
They need to figure out some strict rules for people flying out of Africa, because I (like many people in this country) certainly don't need another thing to worry about.

They're going to have to quarantine all incoming travelers. That's the only 100% safe way to do it. If people don't like that, then don't travel to the risky areas.
This seems to be impossible, logistically. Where do you keep this many people for 2-3 days (or possibly 3 weeks to account for incubation period)? Hospitals don't have the capacity. Telling people to stay home doesn't work... the family that was known to be exposed to the Dallas guy refused to stay home and required armed guards to keep them there. You are better off simply cutting off all inbound flights from countries known to have sizable infections.

DigitalChaos
10-05-2014, 01:16 PM
Meanwhile, health workers in West Africa are saying "fuck this shit (http://frontpageafricaonline.com/index.php/county-news/3238-health-workers-abandon-ebola-etu-in-bong-county-over-pay)" and bailing out over a lack of pay and insufficient supplies. Because $50(USD) per week is too much for their government to pay... Especially after 120 health care workers have now died from ebola.


Also, wtf is with the US military going to West Africa? How is this their job? Where the fuck is the UN?

Of course, it all comes on the back of the WHO failing. Aid workers ask where was WHO in Ebola outbreak? (http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFKCN0HU0BF20141005) and How the world’s health organizations failed to stop the Ebola disaster (http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2014/10/04/how-ebola-sped-out-of-control/). Once again... we see the facade of the competency of those given responsibility for the safety of the masses.

DigitalChaos
10-07-2014, 12:45 PM
Alright, I officially revoke my posts earlier in this thread.

Some Ebola experts worry virus may spread more easily than assumed
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ebola-questions-20141007-story.html#page=1

- "We just don't have the data to exclude (other modes of transmission)."
- "Being dogmatic is, I think, ill-advised, because there are too many unknowns here."
- "no one has ever done a study [disproving that] coughing or sneezing is a viable means of transmitting,"

Sarah K
10-08-2014, 10:34 AM
http://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Cole-Ebola-ISIS-2-690.jpg

Dear god.

http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/what-is-ebola

Sarah K
10-08-2014, 10:51 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/08/health/ebola-us/index.html?sr=fb100814ebolapatientdies1140aStoryLi nkFakephoto

The Dallas patient has died. :(

Cat Mom
10-08-2014, 11:10 AM
No big surprise, there. He was treated so late in the game, it was too late by the time he got to the hospital.

ManBurning
10-10-2014, 12:48 AM
Here's a question for everyone here... I don't wanna sound like a paranoid fuck, but I'll probably come across one anyway, and to be frank... I am paranoid about catching this shit...

Would you guys put off all vacation plans to travel overseas from North America while this outbreak is at it's peak, or would you just say "fuck it, life is short... we're all going to catch it anyway, just go on your vacation and have 1 last adventure on somewhere you always wanted to go before we all catch it and die anyway"

Honest opinions please. My girlfriend and I have been in the mist of planning a trip to Australia for this coming February for quite some time now and all we need to do is just book the flights and hotels and we're set... But this disease has really taken off recently...

Just today it was reported that a nurse that just got back from Sierra Leone to Queensland has a fever and is being heavily monitored under a care facility for signs:

http://www.news.com.au/national/queensland-ebola-scare-bob-katter-blames-selfish-humanitarians/story-fncynjr2-1227085900683

A 58 year old British man just died from it as well:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2786874/Breaking-news-British-man-dies-suspected-Ebola-Macedonia-UK-victim-virus-killed-thousands.html

Also hit Germany and Turkey as a Spanish Nurse went UN-quarantined for a week:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-10-09/ebola-pandemic-hits-germany-turkey-and-australia-infected-spanish-nurse-went-un-quar

This doesn't seem to be getting any better... would you guys put off travel plans until this blows over, or what? In other words, would all of you feel safe traveling outside your city/country under these conditions?

Your Name Here
10-10-2014, 08:45 AM
..............

Dra508
10-10-2014, 09:21 AM
This doesn't seem to be getting any better... would you guys put off travel plans until this blows over, or what? In other words, would all of you feel safe traveling outside your city/country under these conditions?
Go make your plans. You're more likely to die in a car wreck than any of this...

themethatyouknow
10-10-2014, 10:45 AM
The only reason you should cancel your travel plans right now is if you were headed to West Africa. At this point you're more likely to die from a spider bite in Australia than ebola. All of the CONFIRMED cases around the world thus far have been people who spent extended time inside the hot zone in Sierra Leone or nearby.


Although the CDC says it's not airborne my concern is with cold and flu season right around the corner here in the U.S. that this strain of Ebola attaches itself to a flu strain and then suddenly becomes airborne.

That's not a real thing. Viruses don't partner up with other viruses to form super Voltron viruses. That's why no one has ever worried that HIV would turn airborne. They can sometimes mutate into new forms that transmit differently which is a concern with things like bird flu. But to do that, they have to be genetically close to an airborne virus to start with. As far as we know, ebola isn't that close to making any dramatic changes.

cahernandez
10-10-2014, 10:58 AM
With all due respect, I think we've all see too many Hollywood movies (ie. Rise of Planet of the Apes, Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, 28 Days Later, Resident Evil, I Am Legend, Outbreak, etc.) and are taking this issue way out of proportion*

Take your trip, like someone else said, you're more likely to die from a spider bite or better yet, a snake bite (what a way to go out!) in Australia.

*Not trying to disrespect the people that have died in West Africa, Europe and North America.

Sebek
10-10-2014, 04:55 PM
This doesn't seem to be getting any better... would you guys put off travel plans until this blows over, or what? In other words, would all of you feel safe traveling outside your city/country under these conditions?

Honestly, when I just read an article about the damage Ebola has done to the tourism industry in Africa I thought to myself "I wonder if it just got a lot cheaper to visit South Africa." Because I bet South Africa is friggin' awesome, and I want to go... but it's expensive. This line of thinking may seem insensitive, given the serious nature of what's happening out there - but my thoughts are as long as you're not traveling to western Africa you shouldn't dive off the panic plank, and if you do travel just be sensible about things.

Dra508
10-10-2014, 08:52 PM
Reading the local Dallas suburb paper's sound off column asking folks if they thought public Heath officials are doing enough to stop the spread. Most were positive, yes, we're doing what we can. A few comments made me gaffaw: "the same cannot be said of the federal government. There should be a temporary ban from entering the United States on people holding passports from the West African countries most affected." And " quarantine the whole country where Ebola is found."

DigitalChaos
10-10-2014, 08:53 PM
Although the CDC says it's not airborne my concern is with cold and flu season right around the corner here in the U.S. that this strain of Ebola attaches itself to a flu strain and then suddenly becomes airborne.

The CDC's words are way more political than they are scientific. Just keep that in mind when evaluating things. As for the Flu... My concern is that everyone with the flu is going to worry that they have Ebola. Hospitals don't seem to have a quick way to distinguish Ebola from anything else that creates the incredibly common symptoms. Also, you'll have people who may get Ebola and write it off as seasonal flu until things get much worse.

Pretty sure I'm gonna get my flu shot this year...

DigitalChaos
10-10-2014, 09:06 PM
For anyone currently worried about your risk, check out the 3 part video that VICE News just did about Ebola. Also, the segment they did back in June. (Would love if someone could post the YouTube links here for me).
You'll see how unserious the public was a few months ago and see how poor their medical infrastructure is to handle things currently. It's hard to really understand how different things are without seeing it.

ManBurning
10-10-2014, 10:06 PM
Alright folks, thanks for the responses. We'll just finalize our travel plans and go. I mean, there are non-stop daily flights between Sydney, AUS and Vancouver, CAN carrying 100's of people each day that don't seem to have an issue with this. I mean, if it's going to come here, it's going to come here and there's nothing we can do about it other than fight for our lives to survive or die trying. I don't wanna look back with regrets and say "Damn, I wish I took that trip..." Might as well live in the NOW and worry about the future when it comes knocking on your door.

There are 7 billion people in the world and so far maybe less than 15 confirmed cases outside of West Africa, and as most people said, those are from people that visited the infected areas directly. Those are pretty decent statistics. As long as the people that return to their native country's check into treatment facilities upon returning and not like riding the public transit system around shopping for their groceries, they should get a handle of this outside of West Africa.

But people who visit there really need to take more precautions and not just carry on with their day to day activities even if they do not show sign of symptoms. There should be a mandatory 3 week quarantine process for those people to heavily monitor under health supervision so they don't spread it around in the event they do develop symptoms.

Cat Mom
10-10-2014, 11:31 PM
The people who freak me out are the ones online blaming Obama for this. Like, wtf.

DigitalChaos
10-11-2014, 07:03 PM
The people who freak me out are the ones online blaming Obama for this. Like, wtf.

What are their justifications? I've seen the ones saying that Ebola is intentionally being allowed to spread a bit so that more people will sign up for care under the ACA.

Cat Mom
10-11-2014, 07:50 PM
What are their justifications? I've seen the ones saying that Ebola is intentionally being allowed to spread a bit so that more people will sign up for care under the ACA.
Oops, sorry, didn't mean to hit "like." There is no "justification," these are just right-wing nutjob friends of my husband's cousin in Texas. Evidently, they think that Obama should've personally made sure the Liberian gov't didn't let him out of the country, even though the guy lied.

TheyCallMeDrug
10-11-2014, 09:40 PM
obamabola.

Sarah K
10-11-2014, 10:08 PM
Rush said that Obama was letting Ebola into the States for payback for slavery. So... there's that.

Jinsai
10-11-2014, 10:44 PM
Rush said that Obama was letting Ebola into the States for payback for slavery. So... there's that.

I read the quote and I'm not sure that's what he was implying. The guy is scum, and he says horrible shit just for attention, but still...

Sarah K
10-11-2014, 10:53 PM
https://soundcloud.com/thinkpro/rush-limbaugh-on-ebola

I just listened to it again... He kind of talks in circles and never really makes a point. But from my understanding, he states that there are people who say the US deserves "this" because of our history with slavery. And it is a problem, because we now have elected officials who think that our country is to blame.

You're right. He never directly states that Obama says we deserve an Ebola outbreak. But that seems to be what he is implying? What do you hear when you listen to it? Admittedly, just hearing his voice makes me all aggro, so I might not be processing the information correctly.

onthewall2983
10-12-2014, 11:05 AM
Forgive the naive nature of the question, but has there been any report on how Ebola does in cold weather?

theruiner
10-12-2014, 11:13 AM
Nurse in Dallas who treated Ebola patient has now contracted it his/herself

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/13/us/texas-health-worker-tests-positive-for-ebola.html?_r=0

Jinsai
10-12-2014, 01:26 PM
https://soundcloud.com/thinkpro/rush-limbaugh-on-ebola

I just listened to it again... He kind of talks in circles and never really makes a point. But from my understanding, he states that there are people who say the US deserves "this" because of our history with slavery. And it is a problem, because we now have elected officials who think that our country is to blame.

You're right. He never directly states that Obama says we deserve an Ebola outbreak. But that seems to be what he is implying? What do you hear when you listen to it? Admittedly, just hearing his voice makes me all aggro, so I might not be processing the information correctly.

I think he's just rambling incoherently, and when he catches himself doing this, he goes autopilot and takes a vague dig at either liberals in general or Obama, or both, or some kind of insinuation which could be construed as a slight. I don't think he has a clue what he's trying to say.

Sutekh
10-12-2014, 02:33 PM
Forgive the naive nature of the question, but has there been any report on how Ebola does in cold weather?

It shouldn't AFAIK affect the way the virus works.

But on a practical level, when it's cold people go out less, and viral cells locked in frozen water can't move (bit random but just trying to think of ways in which the cold might aid or hinder transmission).

And speaking more generally, Ebola needs 3 things to spread

- improper corpse disposal
- infectious individuals not being properly isolated
- poor water sanitation

For these reasons I can't really see a Liberia style outbreak in the west, the west doesn't have issues with 1 & 3 and our healthcare and security infrastructures are such that infected people have so far been isolated quickly and even cured

Space Suicide
10-12-2014, 05:47 PM
I don't think he has a clue what he's trying to say.

http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/rush-limbaugh_tpftd-e1375291854472-555x370.jpg

onthewall2983
10-12-2014, 05:57 PM
^ Never knew he was such a great mime.

DigitalChaos
10-12-2014, 08:56 PM
That Limbaugh clip hurts my head. I'm not sure why people are trying to make this about race. Be it the people he is talking about or Limbaugh himself. Same goes for Jesse Jackson who was initially trying to make the Dallas guy's care/death about his race.

elevenism
10-12-2014, 09:46 PM
Nurse in Dallas who treated Ebola patient has now contracted it his/herself

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/13/us/texas-health-worker-tests-positive-for-ebola.html?_r=0

yes and this could be where shit gets scary.
I wonder if any other health care workers at Presby will catch it. I know some of the nurses who work there.

I have a question: why do I keep hearing news reports about how "hard" it is to contract ebola? my mother is a nurse, my wife is a nurse, and I was a nurse's assistant for five years, and diseases that are spread in this manner are in no fucking way hard to contract. I mean, this doesn't make us experts, but for fuck's sake.
I can't help but think that these news agencies are just trying to avoid panic.
They talk about it as if it's blood borne or something. But the pathogen can be present in all bodily fluids, as in, sneeze, wipe mouth, shake someone's hand who then wipes mouth...
I just really don't get it. It's GOOD to have a healthy fear of this shit.
I've treated some really sick, really contagious people in my day...active tb, mrsa, etc...you have to be fucking CAREFUL with these things. I wish these news reports would stop insinuating that there isn't any danger with ebola.

Sutekh
10-13-2014, 03:53 AM
It's because it isn't airborne and an infected individual doesn't become infectious until a later stage of the illness, which is very conspicuous

Cat Mom
10-13-2014, 08:35 AM
And the patients die so quickly.

Cat Mom
10-13-2014, 10:16 AM
The thing that hospitals here in the states probably aren't training staff for is that SURFACES contain the virus; any surface that the infected patients touch with a sweaty hand, or sneeze on, or whatever, has the virus that can live for a pretty long time. And I don't think we have anything like that right now THAT CAN KILL YOU. Sure we have staph infections and MRSA but neither of those can KILL you like THIS (well, they "can" but...) When a patient has C-Dif, staff and visitors wear gowns, masks and gloves, and surfaces that the patients touch can transmit C-Dif, but C-Dif is a minor painful inconvenience. It doesn't KILL you. The hospitals can't simply post a flyer in the staff lunch room and count that as "training" (which is currently the case), that's bullshit, nurses unions are currently bitching about that. All surfaces in the infected Ebola patient's room will have to be covered with plastic. All staff will have to wear the hazmat-style suits we see staff in Africa wearing. All eating utensils, trays, tv remotes, ANY SURFACE, anything the patient touches, will have to be properly disposed of. And I really don't think hospitals in the U.S. are prepared for something like this, because we currently don't have anything similar to this, other than staph/MRSA, C-dif, TB, AIDS, which isn't really similar at all.

Many U.S. hospitals have a difficult enough time managing day-to-day activities, as it is. There are so many mistakes, egad.

Jinsai
10-13-2014, 12:13 PM
Still, for a long time, there was this smug attitude running around on the net suggesting that the only way to actually contract ebola was to literally drink the blood of an infected person.

About a month ago i09 posted this stupid shit on their page.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--K_Y-GL4p--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/ylyhgptplckkfbf8qlf4.jpg

I wonder if they'd get the same response now that we've had someone bring the disease into the US, die from it, and that patient has infected a nurse who was treating him. Maybe we are getting a little carried away with the panic, but for fuck's sake, the "oh shut up, you have a better chance of getting hit by lightning fifteen times in a row" bullshit is a really obnoxious response.

Sutekh
10-13-2014, 12:25 PM
how do you contract ebola without coming into contact with an infected person's bodily fluids?

edit - assuming that infected bodies aren't going to enter a western water supply

Jinsai
10-13-2014, 12:49 PM
how do you contract ebola without coming into contact with an infected person's bodily fluids?

edit - assuming that infected bodies aren't going to enter a western water supply

I guess I'd just expand that and say "what are the many ways that you can come into contact with other people's bodily fluids?" I'm not panicking, but it hasn't been completely proven that it cannot be transmitted via direct coughing or sneezing. When you have a nurse getting infected in the US... this was one patient, who everyone knew had ebola. They were probably approaching this with the closest thing to a hazmat suit.

People are being overly dismissive about it. If it was so fucking HARD to contract, there is no way in hell a cautious nurse would have contracted it.

Cat Mom
10-13-2014, 12:52 PM
When you have a nurse getting infected in the US... this was one patient, who everyone knew had ebola. They were probably approaching this with the closest thing to a hazmat suit.
We don't know that. We don't know that this hospital and its staff was trained or prepared to handle an Ebola case. We don't know that they were trained that surfaces contained the viruses for a long time. Etc. This (and other) American hospitals just are not yet geared up for Ebola. They're probably NOW getting ready for it, but they ain't there, yet. We're bound to have staff casualties. Evidently, even the AGE of the rubber gloves in the supply room can make a big difference.

They're definitely going to have to cremate the bodies.

I heard that euthanized the nurse's dog? Is that true?

marodi
10-13-2014, 01:06 PM
There's no need to panic but there is a need to watch how health centers and hospitals are handling the disease. Ebola is a killer: give it a chance and it will kill you.

edit: Because even when you think you have it all under control, shit happens. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Parker)

DigitalChaos
10-13-2014, 01:09 PM
Still, for a long time, there was this smug attitude running around on the net suggesting that the only way to actually contract ebola was to literally drink the blood of an infected person.

About a month ago i09 posted this stupid shit on their page.

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--K_Y-GL4p--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/ylyhgptplckkfbf8qlf4.jpg

I wonder if they'd get the same response now that we've had someone bring the disease into the US, die from it, and that patient has infected a nurse who was treating him. Maybe we are getting a little carried away with the panic, but for fuck's sake, the "oh shut up, you have a better chance of getting hit by lightning fifteen times in a row" bullshit is a really obnoxious response.

This is still a reasonable response. Looking at the Dallas guy, nobody on his flight, at the airport, at the ER when he visited, or any other public space caught it from him. Hell, even his family seems fine so far. Only a nurse who was physically interacting with him got it. That flow chart doesn't apply to healthcare workers who put themselves in very different risks than the general public. Further, most of the sources of messaging like that flowchart are simply trusting the CDC and basically parroting it. The CDC has a lot more to lose by being overly confident being that they are supposed to be THE authority on Ebola for us. Their messaging is way more political than it is science based. It may come back to bite them if the public stops trusting them. I think they are definitely trying to prevent panic though. Our medical system can't contain Ebola if it gets swamped with every idiot who has a minor cold, especially as flu season approaches. That kind of thing happened during the "swine flu" scare.

Yes, it's becoming clear that we don't have the science to prove that Ebola CAN'T be transmitted in more ways. It just hasn't been studied that thoroughly. As it spreads around the world, we will definitely learn more.

Dra508
10-13-2014, 01:23 PM
They're definitely going to have to cremate the bodies.

I heard that euthanized the nurse's dog? Is that true?They did cremate Duncan's body.

Which dog? The Spanish nurse's dog - yes, they did kill it. Haven't heard about the Dallas nurse's

Informative video from the New York Times. I'm really very impressed with their coverage and their use of video in general, given that they are a newspaper. Not anyone it seems.
http://nyti.ms/1vjJeNI

Fearbola is going to be the story of the week starting in Los Angeles (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-scare-causes-temporary-travel-disruptions-at-lax/) and Boston (http://news.yahoo.com/patient-isolated-massachusetts-clinic-displaying-ebola-symptoms-newspaper-200117720.html)

Sutekh
10-13-2014, 01:25 PM
I guess I'd just expand that and say "what are the many ways that you can come into contact with other people's bodily fluids?" I'm not panicking, but it hasn't been completely proven that it cannot be transmitted via direct coughing or sneezing. When you have a nurse getting infected in the US... this was one patient, who everyone knew had ebola. They were probably approaching this with the closest thing to a hazmat suit.

People are being overly dismissive about it. If it was so fucking HARD to contract, there is no way in hell a cautious nurse would have contracted it.

Sorry to be picky but coughs and sneezes are transmissions of bodily fluids - when you cough or sneeze you aerolise some of your saliva and any throat/mouth or any other cells that become bound to it in a mist

It's my understanding the nurse became infected because she was unfamiliar with the hazard suit and didn't remove it properly

Cat Mom
10-13-2014, 02:20 PM
CDC chief: U.S. needs to rethink Ebola infection controls (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-ebola-outbreak-cdc-20141013-story.html)

ManBurning
10-13-2014, 02:35 PM
Well, 2 potential cases just hit Ontario, Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ebola-like-symptoms-seen-in-2-people-isolated-in-ottawa-belleville-1.2797055

Satyr
10-13-2014, 03:40 PM
Well, 2 potential cases just hit Ontario, Canada.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ebola-like-symptoms-seen-in-2-people-isolated-in-ottawa-belleville-1.2797055

Guys...Sarah K told me its impossible to get Ebola unless you drink an infected dead West African's blood. Don't worry. Got to sleep. Everything will be okay!

elevenism
10-13-2014, 04:37 PM
I'm glad we're talking about this.
How about this...if you need a fucking hazmat suit IN THE FIRST PLACE, then the pathogen is probably pretty fucking contagious.

"It's not that contagious! Don't worry! The nurse just fucked up putting on her zombie apocalypse style protective gear, that's all!"

I can't remember who all said what, @Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) , @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) , @Sutekh (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1595) .
I'm in a hurry, as always, on this effing geedee hotel computer.
But yeah, I just heard ANOTHER report on CNN radio telling people that "hey, it's all good, aint nobody gonna catch this shit, hell! It can only be transmited through bodily fluids, like semen or blood or (ahem mucous or sweat) and only then through open sores! (or ahem ahem mucous membranes, eyes, nose, mouth, pretty much any fucking bodily orifice of any kind.)
So don't worry about it!

We are talking about some shit that mimics the flu, during flu season...a pathogen that, if I sneeze and you fuck up and touch the place where part of the sneeze landed and then eat a hamburger, you will probably catch. That is the grim reality of the situation.

And from personal experience, I can tell you that we as healthcare workers DO NOT FUCK AROUND when it comes to contagious diseases.
Nina Pham, the nurse at Presby, wore what they told her to wear...smock, gloves, shield...not a hazmat suit. And we as healthcare workers damn sure know how to don and remove protective gear and follow contamination protocol.

I know a lot of you think I am nuts for not believing the gvmt's explanation of 911, but I am NOT a crazy conspiracy nut who will believe anything alex jones says. I'm not.
But the media is fucking LYING about the risk of contracting ebola being so low.
Everyone who lived in the dallas nurse (Pham's) apt complex received a "reverse 911 call" warning them that they may have been exposed, from what I understand, and furthermore the apt was cleaned by a hazmat team overseen by fucking ARMED GUARDS.
Just because it isn't airborne or doesn't mean it won't spread like wildfire.
Like @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) said, surfaces are a huge issue here.

But don't worry! It's not that big of a deal!

Watch what happens in the next few weeks.
I'd bet money that another worker at Presby caught it. I'd also bet money that someone who came in contact with one of the presby patients will contract it.

I hope and pray that this doesn't become an epidemic here, but the media needs to warn people.
Ebola is NOT HARD to contract.

ManBurning
10-13-2014, 05:09 PM
All it takes is an infected person at a public mall to pee on the toilet seat or in a urinal and then use the flusher and walk out without washing their hands opening doors and such.

Not hard to contract my ass. The media is defiantly trying to lower the severity of this disease down to nothing to worry about so we don't all start panicking.

Cat Mom
10-13-2014, 05:24 PM
I'm glad we're talking about this.
How about this...if you need a fucking hazmat suit IN THE FIRST PLACE, then the pathogen is probably pretty fucking contagious.

"It's not that contagious! Don't worry! The nurse just fucked up putting on her zombie apocalypse style protective gear, that's all!"

I can't remember who all said what, @Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) , @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) , @Sutekh (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1595) .
Go search again, I never said, that. My brother died of AIDS, I'm not that quick on the fucking keyboard. YOU are, for whatever your circumstances. Let's not start finger-pointing and shit-stirring, we've already been through that drama while you were gone. Let's be civil about this, and not all knee-jerky so that we get on each other's asses about this shit on this board, okay? Just a suggestion, as somebody who's been involved in online forums since 1985, so this doesn't get all nasty.

The CDC, as linked above, already said this is very very serious and very contagious. Go up to my post #82 and read that article. No, they don't want panic. I know I keep referencing Defoe's "Diary of the Plague Year" probably too much, but that was quintessential reading for what not to do when a potential plague hits, and rule 1 was not to cause panic and have people start to LIE if they think they have symptoms.

Remember, originally, everybody thought AIDS was transmitted very easily and people panicked. Even in 2000, there were nurses who wouldn't touch my brother when he was in the hospital. Some would stand on the other side of the room when he was in the hospital. I shit you not. Because they thought scientists were either lying or wrong. In the early days of AIDS, the public started making crazy demands of deporting AIDS / HIV patients, etc. Hell, gay men STILL can't give blood, can they (http://www.nbcnews.com/health/mens-health/banned-life-why-gay-men-still-cant-donate-blood-f6C10622947)? All I'm saying is that, Yes, Ebola is very scary, and it's transmitted via bodily fluids, like AIDS, although the AIDS virus doesn't survive on surfaces for long like Ebola, and AIDS is not transmitted through saliva and mucous and sweat bodily fluids, and AIDS doesn't manifest like this, and Ebola patients die really fast, while AIDS patients die a long and terrible death, but Yes, Ebola sucks. (So does AIDS.)

Sutekh
10-13-2014, 05:47 PM
I'm glad we're talking about this.
How about this...if you need a fucking hazmat suit IN THE FIRST PLACE, then the pathogen is probably pretty fucking contagious.

"It's not that contagious! Don't worry! The nurse just fucked up putting on her zombie apocalypse style protective gear, that's all!"

I can't remember who all said what, @Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) , @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) , @Sutekh (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1595) .
I'm in a hurry, as always, on this effing geedee hotel computer.
But yeah, I just heard ANOTHER report on CNN radio telling people that "hey, it's all good, aint nobody gonna catch this shit, hell! It can only be transmited through bodily fluids, like semen or blood or (ahem mucous or sweat) and only then through open sores! (or ahem ahem mucous membranes, eyes, nose, mouth, pretty much any fucking bodily orifice of any kind.)
So don't worry about it!

We are talking about some shit that mimics the flu, during flu season...a pathogen that, if I sneeze and you fuck up and touch the place where part of the sneeze landed and then eat a hamburger, you will probably catch. That is the grim reality of the situation.

And from personal experience, I can tell you that we as healthcare workers DO NOT FUCK AROUND when it comes to contagious diseases.
Nina Pham, the nurse at Presby, wore what they told her to wear...smock, gloves, shield...not a hazmat suit. And we as healthcare workers damn sure know how to don and remove protective gear and follow contamination protocol.

I know a lot of you think I am nuts for not believing the gvmt's explanation of 911, but I am NOT a crazy conspiracy nut who will believe anything alex jones says. I'm not.
But the media is fucking LYING about the risk of contracting ebola being so low.
Everyone who lived in the dallas nurse (Pham's) apt complex received a "reverse 911 call" warning them that they may have been exposed, from what I understand, and furthermore the apt was cleaned by a hazmat team overseen by fucking ARMED GUARDS.
Just because it isn't airborne or doesn't mean it won't spread like wildfire.
Like @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) said, surfaces are a huge issue here.

But don't worry! It's not that big of a deal!

Watch what happens in the next few weeks.
I'd bet money that another worker at Presby caught it. I'd also bet money that someone who came in contact with one of the presby patients will contract it.

I hope and pray that this doesn't become an epidemic here, but the media needs to warn people.
Ebola is NOT HARD to contract.

I'm saying the way Ebola spreads as it has in Africa isn't going to happen here. This is because it's spread the way it has in Africa due to factors that aren't issues here - bodies in the streets & victims not being isolated and treated effectively, bodies entering the water supply, the water supply not being sufficiently sanitised etc

The nurse did get Ebola because she didn't take off her suit properly - otherwise how did she get it? Can it pass through a hazard suit?

Ebola spreads via bodily fluids - that includes, Saliva, sneezes coughs etc. Outside of that I'm not really sure what else is a vector?

You'll get the occasional case but unless the conditions in Africa listed above represent here, you won't see that kind of crisis

If you're not into blindly assuming and believing things then explain how it spreads outside of the vectors I've mentioned - if you can't then I'm afraid you're making suppositions and assumptions. And if the virus is that tough and smart then why isn't the situation much worse - less than 10,000 have died and most of the people taking precautions and treating victims haven't fallen ill. Also I have been following Shepherd's Crooks and Ebola Zaire for about 16 years, and this is the biggest blowup yet. And it coincides with a gradual breakdown of infrastructure and population increase.

Again I'm not saying it isn't very dangerous and infectious... but you're saying the nurse disrobing incorrectly is irrelevant, with that in mind I have to ask what your theory is regarding how she contracted it, and why that dynamic hasn't occurred in the vast majority of aid workers. It's almost like they know the drill and the US is new to it... which is the case

and why is the presence of armed guards relevant? They can be as serious as they like but if they don't really know what they're doing then it's irrelevant. I don't see anything in what you say that indicates men with guns would make the virus any less contagious or make a nurse any more experienced

I don't really get what you're saying - are you saying it has vectors we aren't aware of, or are you saying they're consciously downplaying the danger?

Cat Mom
10-13-2014, 05:59 PM
We have NOT received an official explanation as to how the nurse contracted it, yet, have we?

Yes, removing a hazmat suit incorrectly can do it. And, as already mentioned, there are DEFINITELY going to be casualties among hospital staff, because U.S. hospitals are NOTORIOUSLY bad at training their staff, WHICH IS THE HOSPITAL'S RESPONSIBILITY but they suck at it, and because hospitals are NOTORIOUSLY bad with red tape, computer glitches, poor protocols, etc. So, yeah, you're going to see this, and it's sad. But, it's not a SURPRISE. Not here, anyway, where the US hospitals can't even manage to control athlete's foot in the showers, or MRSA, or staph infections, or leaving items in patients during surgery, or giving patients the wrong meds, or the cafeteria delivering food to patients after surgery when there's a sign on the door saying "NO FOOD" etc.

So, yeah, the ones who are pretty fucked right now are hospital workers. I just read an article somewhere, where a nurse's union member said the hospital's "training" for nurses is handing them a brochure from the CDC about Ebola and saying, "here, go read this." Wtf.

bryan_NIN65
10-13-2014, 06:20 PM
Man, I work at a factory, and I think about the Kraft factory and all the food processing plants. One worker can touch thousands upon thousands of items in a day.

cynicmuse
10-14-2014, 02:44 AM
I would be curious to know whether they were following CDC protocols or MSF (aka Doctors without Borders) protocols for protection gear and proper donning and removal of said gear. From what I gather, MSF has somewhat stricter protocols, and they've been successful at treating Ebola with very few cases of transmission to healthcare workers. However, they practice this stuff all the time. The previous hospitals that treated Ebola patients in the US were also biocontainment units... where all they do is train and treat these types of highly infectious patients. At least at Emory, one of the other biocontainment units, workers donning or removing gear (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/14/us/questions-rise-on-preparations-at-hospitals-to-deal-with-ebola.html) are observed by a buddy. This article (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/14/us/dallas-nurse-ebola-patient.html) in the NYT seems to imply that they weren't doing that at the Dallas hospital.

I hadn't realized why Ebola was so infectious... it's due to the shear number (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/14/us/questions-rise-on-preparations-at-hospitals-to-deal-with-ebola.html) of viruses floating around:

At the peak of illness, an Ebola patient can have 10 billion viral particles in one-fifth of a teaspoon of blood. That compares with 50,000 to 100,000 particles in an untreated H.I.V. patient, and five million to 20 million in someone with untreated hepatitis C.

Satyr
10-14-2014, 07:06 AM
To me the most curious thing is that a nurse in a hazmat suit managed to become infected while none of the people that guy was in close contact with while symptomatic have become infected (at least we aren't being told if they are).

Satyr
10-14-2014, 07:19 AM
http://gotnews.com/ebola-nurse-boyfriend-reportedly-admitted-ebola-symptoms/

Rumors flying all around about more cases in Texas. Apparently the next 72 hours should be interesting.

miss k bee
10-14-2014, 12:37 PM
One positive story on Nigeria which seems to have contained the spread by acting quickly

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/ebola-outbreak-nigeria-a-week-away-from-beating-virus-9794269.html

Jinsai
10-14-2014, 02:36 PM
http://gotnews.com/ebola-nurse-boyfriend-reportedly-admitted-ebola-symptoms/

Rumors flying all around about more cases in Texas. Apparently the next 72 hours should be interesting.

I'll wait until the news comes from a source where the comments section isn't flooded with people blaming Obama for it. What fucking website is this?

Satyr
10-14-2014, 02:41 PM
I'll wait until the news comes from a source where the comments section isn't flooded with people blaming Obama for it. What fucking website is this?

I bet you also distrusted any news source that blamed Bush for everything.

Jinsai
10-14-2014, 02:43 PM
I bet you also distrusted any news source that blamed Bush for everything.

Yeah, I don't get my news from blatantly biased sources. If someone blamed Bush for an ebola infection in the USA, I'd call them a fucking moron.

Sutekh
10-14-2014, 04:27 PM
the west screwing Africa dry over the past 200 years probably has something to do with the infrastructural weaknesses that have enabled this pandemic... but you can't lay that at the feet of any one head of state, blame imperialism and it's bastard child neoliberalism

DigitalChaos
10-15-2014, 01:06 AM
I was on a 5hr flight today and decided to watch the NOVA segment on Ebola. I'm not sure others around me enjoyed that but whatever. The experimental zmapp drug is pretty fascinating. It basically pauses ebola's ability to replicate and allows your body's natural antibodies to build up enough to kill it off. Typically, ebola just replicates much faster than the antibody production process. What is really crazy is the drug is derived from 3 different animal antibodies but they are now replicating them using tobacco plants! That's also why the drug is in crazy short supply and can't be made very fast.

DigitalChaos
10-15-2014, 01:14 AM
I'm currently digging through some (http://www.utexas.edu/news/2014/10/14/ebola-immunization/) interesting data (http://download.thelancet.com/flatcontentassets/pdfs/PIIS0140673614618390.pdf?id=aaadpDXSyNZVP5Qg76oKu) ... there seems to be some data that is pointing toward asymptomatic carriers of ebola. This could mean that more people are being infected than we thought, that these people may be gaining immunity (yay!), and it's possible that these people could also transmit ala Typhoid Mary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoid_Mary) (fuck).

Needless to say, all of these things will change the reproductivity and transmission models everyone has been working with. Pretty sure the "worst case" models end up looking much more positive, as indicated in the graph in my 2nd link:
http://i.imgur.com/7iYT8fb.jpg

ManBurning
10-15-2014, 01:48 AM
They're testing a potential vaccine made in Canada on 20 U.S. volunteers in Maryland.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ebola-outbreak-1st-human-trials-of-canadian-vaccine-start-in-u-s-1.2796859

theruiner
10-15-2014, 08:47 AM
A second health care worker at that same Dallas hospital has tested positive for Ebola

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health/texas-ebola-outbreak/

Satyr
10-15-2014, 11:08 AM
A second health care worker at that same Dallas hospital has tested positive for Ebola

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health/texas-ebola-outbreak/

The second infected health care worker spent a few days in Akron, Ohio then flew on an airliner from Cleveland to Dallas.

Deepvoid
10-15-2014, 11:38 AM
The second infected health care worker spent a few days in Akron, Ohio then flew on an airliner from Cleveland to Dallas.

So between attending patient zero and today, couldn't she just take it easy for a couple weeks?
I get it. Virus is only transmissible via bodily fluids but shouldn't they be monitoring the staff that treated patient zero?

Sutekh
10-15-2014, 11:41 AM
Don't mean to be ghoulish but anyone fancy placing some bets? I reckon by the end of the year there'll be about a dozen more cases in the west and the African crisis will peak around 20k

cynicmuse
10-15-2014, 11:50 AM
So between attending patient zero and today, couldn't she just take it easy for a couple weeks?
I get it. Virus is only transmissible via bodily fluids but shouldn't they be monitoring the staff that treated patient zero?
Well, I don't think that they thought that any healthcare workers would get infected. If you look at the timeline (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/98caf61872d743459414ca2adece7fdb/texas-dept-2nd-person-tests-positive-ebola), the second nurse had already left town before the the first one became sick. They are monitoring the staff now. This whole thing (treatment of an Ebola patient not at a biocontainment unit) was a bit of clusterfuck, if a somewhat necessary one. Now the people who deal with public health policy realize that any hospital can't treat Ebola. We'll see if they can treat it without any more transmissions with back up from properly trained personnel.

Deepvoid
10-15-2014, 12:11 PM
Well, I don't think that they thought that any healthcare workers would get infected. If you look at the timeline (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/98caf61872d743459414ca2adece7fdb/texas-dept-2nd-person-tests-positive-ebola), the second nurse had already left town before the the first one became sick. They are monitoring the staff now. This whole thing (treatment of an Ebola patient not at a biocontainment unit) was a bit of clusterfuck, if a somewhat necessary one. Now the people who deal with public health policy realize that any hospital can't treat Ebola. We'll see if they can treat it without any more transmissions with back up from properly trained personnel.

You first sentence is the key here.
We elect people to to think 3-4 moves advance. Pro-active thinking. You know, like a chess player.
Yet right now, officials are reacting to unfolding events. I honestly do not believe they have a good handle on the situation at this present moment.

One might understand why countries in Africa had issues with containment at first. We're looking at third world countries. You'd think protocols in place would be on another level in North America.
I think the breach of protocols excuse is BS. I think a lack of clear protocols caused the 2nd nurse to be infected. How the 3rd one got infected remains to be seen but I'm still baffled by the fact that she took an airplane in such a short period of time.

CDC needs to get their shit together.

Cat Mom
10-15-2014, 12:42 PM
CDC needs to get their shit together.
This is the understatement of the year.

sentient02970
10-15-2014, 12:52 PM
You first sentence is the key here.
We elect people to to think 3-4 moves advance. Pro-active thinking. You know, like a chess player.
Yet right now, officials are reacting to unfolding events. I honestly do not believe they have a good handle on the situation at this present moment.

Exactly. You'd think this was just pulling the trigger on some semblance of a containment plan we had all hoped was getting set up way back when The Hot Zone was published.

Charmingly Miserable
10-15-2014, 01:19 PM
For the record: If I get Ebola, I want visitors, FTD flowers, play Twister with a few people, have sex and webcast a 2 hour special via FB, twitter, and youtube. I also want free Little Caesar's cheese bread because I am most likely gonna die since I am a minority and the CDC doesn't care about treating minorities with efficiency.

Cat Mom
10-15-2014, 01:30 PM
I'm gonna smoke a whole carton of Salem Light 100s. And a pound of weed.

And I'm gonna go spit all over my asshole neighbor.

Deepvoid
10-15-2014, 02:24 PM
We're being hard on CDC...
Looks like it's the nurse's fault again. They told her not to take a place. She didn't listen (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health/texas-ebola-outbreak/index.html?hpt=hp_t1).

"Health care workers who had been exposed to Duncan were undergoing self-monitoring. They were allowed to travel but not on a commercial plane with other people, Frieden said."
Yeah because, Ebola sounds like the kinda disease which only requires self-monitoring. Wait there's more...

"The worker had a temperature of 99.5 Fahrenheit (37.5 Celsius) before she boarded her flight, he added."
How the fuck does he know that? Did someone took her temperature at the gates? Sounds like this is her last temperature on record. When was it recorded though? While she was self-monitoring?

"Moving forward, the CDC will ensure that no one else in such a situation travels outside of a closed environment, he said."
Thank fucking god we're not dealing with Influenza.

Cat Mom
10-15-2014, 02:38 PM
We're being hard on CDC...
Looks like it's the nurse's fault again. They told her not to take a place. She didn't listen (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health/texas-ebola-outbreak/index.html?hpt=hp_t1).

"Health care workers who had been exposed to Duncan were undergoing self-monitoring. They were allowed to travel but not on a commercial plane with other people, Frieden said."
Yeah because, Ebola sounds like the kinda disease which only requires self-monitoring. Wait there's more...

"The worker had a temperature of 99.5 Fahrenheit (37.5 Celsius) before she boarded her flight, he added."
How the fuck does he know that? Did someone took her temperature at the gates? Sounds like this is her last temperature on record. When was it recorded though? While she was self-monitoring?

"Moving forward, the CDC will ensure that no one else in such a situation travels outside of a closed environment, he said."
Thank fucking god we're not dealing with Influenza.

See, "self-monitoring." People are fucking LYING. Selfish.Mother.Fuckers. That Duncan, if he wasn't dead, I'd shoot that fucker into outer space myself with a fucking semiautomatic weapon. People just can't be trusted to "do the right thing" and they just want to go on, blindly, as if nothing is going to happen. "Oh, yeah, what's a little Ebola, until I'm puking and projectile pooping, relax, everything's just fine."

I now have zero confidence in the CDC.

Does Lysol kill Ebola? I'm turning into Joan Rivers, walking around spraying Lysol on everything.

My friends are emailing me; "how are you? I'm great! Could be worse, at least I don't have EBOLA!" Some of them are having drinking parties, drinking that they don't have Ebola.

In the meantime, I'm gonna go get my flu shot.

Dra508
10-15-2014, 03:00 PM
Can we just blame all of this on the US Congress? Maybe if they actually funded government programs more effectively we wouldn't all be wigging out about this. Research on vaccines, bio hazard blah blah blah and proper training on all of it might actually happen. I know these major hospitals and cities have probably had enormous funding, training, and practice on dealing with mass casualty situations, but the plague. Nah, it won't come here.. If I hear one person, just one try to blame this on the US government and then bitch about their taxes, I'm going freak out on them.....

DigitalChaos
10-15-2014, 03:02 PM
One might understand why countries in Africa had issues with containment at first. We're looking at third world countries. You'd think protocols in place would be on another level in North America.

...

CDC needs to get their shit together.

Something to keep in mind is that Africa had some serious issues with the public believing that Ebola was real. They thought their corrupt government was making shit up with the goal of getting money from other countries. It spread like crazy because nobody was trusting the official message.

The CDC is on the edge of building public distrust for multiple reasons.

Cat Mom
10-15-2014, 03:08 PM
Can we just blame all of this on the US Congress? Maybe if they actually funded government programs more effectively more we wouldn't all be wigging out about this. Research on vaccines, bio hazard blah blah blah and proper training on all of it might actually happen. I know these major hospitals and cities have probably had enormous funding, training, and practice on dealing with mass casualty situations, but the plague. Nah, it won't come here.. If I hear one person, just one try to blame this on the US government and then bitch about their taxes, I'm going freak out on them.....

Exactly. It's like all these idiots bitching about the Aurora En Route Air Traffic Control facility being down for over 2 weeks because one contract worker decided to try to commit suicide and took out several million dollars' worth of equipment and fucked up air travel (http://www.wired.com/2014/09/faa-chicago-fire-air-traffic-control/) for, what, a half a day??? 4,000 flights canceled at O'Hare and Midway and people were bitching that they didn't get "advance warning." Um, some fucking dude was lying on the floor with a knife in his hand, slitting his own fucking throat, and politicians bitching that there's no "backup system" for that ATC center. It takes TWO FUCKING YEARS to train each Air Traffic Controller to work EACH SECTOR of sky and you want to be able to flip a fucking switch and have "backup" (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/10/01/emanuel-blasts-faa-for-lack-of-backup-for-crippled-air-traffic-center/)and THERE WAS NO FUCKING BUDGET TO HAVE A SECURITY GUARD DOWNSTAIRS TO GUARD THE EQUIPMENT THAT THE THROAT-SLITTING GUY TOOK OUT? You know how much "security" was at that building? A guy at a fucking guard shack. CONGRESS WOULDN'T APPROVE A BUDGET INCREASE, REMEMBER THAT??? Every year, they wouldn't raise the debt ceiling? FEDERAL FURLOUGH, remember that????? My husband had to work WITH NO FUCKING PAY FOR TWO FUCKING WEEKS last year, remember that? And all these politicians on TV saying "oh, the humanity, we need to improve the system!!!" With WHAT? HALLOWEEN CANDY???? All fucking lip-service.

It'll be interesting to see who's gonna pay for all this CDC shit. The Tea Party people are gonna make Africa pay for it, heh.

DigitalChaos
10-15-2014, 03:45 PM
Exactly. You'd think this was just pulling the trigger on some semblance of a containment plan we had all hoped was getting set up way back when The Hot Zone was published.

Let me just share this... I know someone who works at a clinic very near to one of the potential US infections that popped up within the last week. They waited until a few days after it was known that they could be accepting an Ebola patient to figure out if their suits even fit.

Your Name Here
10-15-2014, 03:46 PM
..................

elevenism
10-15-2014, 03:55 PM
Don't mean to be ghoulish but anyone fancy placing some bets? I reckon by the end of the year there'll be about a dozen more cases in the west and the African crisis will peak around 20k
@Sutekh (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1595) , i think you're on the money. But it's actually going to be worse. The WHO reported yesterday that we will be looking at 10,000 new cases PER WEEK by december.
And as far as what you asked about my other post, my answer is BOTH. We don't know enough about ebola yet, and yes, the media is concsciously downplaying the danger.

And finally, OH SHIT, @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) ! I think you misread my statement and i would have addressed it more quickly if i had been at home. I wasn't pointing fingers or trying to start shit! I don't want shit with ANYONE here. I'm sorry if it came out that way!
I was just mentioning the names of people who had said meaningful things and then airing MY thoughts. The hostile tone was aimed at the media and the CDC, not you guys. @Sutekh (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1595) , @Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) , i'm sorry if you guys took it the wrong way as well.

Edit: oh, and BTW, while we won't have dead bodies in the streets here like we did in africa, we will have our own problems...ignorance and lack of preperadness.
I bet we wind up with at LEAST a thousand cases here.

Cat Mom
10-15-2014, 04:01 PM
I bet we wind up with at LEAST a thousand cases here.
God, I hope not.


How about this...if you need a fucking hazmat suit IN THE FIRST PLACE, then the pathogen is probably pretty fucking contagious.

"It's not that contagious! Don't worry! The nurse just fucked up putting on her zombie apocalypse style protective gear, that's all!"

I can't remember who all said what, @Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) , @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) , @Sutekh (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1595) .
You can see how it could be "misunderstood?" No worries, though, you've clarified.

DigitalChaos
10-15-2014, 04:05 PM
It'll be interesting to see who's gonna pay for all this CDC shit. The Tea Party people are gonna make Africa pay for it, heh.
CDC stuff seems like it should really be part of the defense budget. But since Hillary is trying to use the ebola situation as a "republicans fault cause they cut the budget"... well it should be worth noting that it's bullshit. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/10/the-facts-about-ebola-funding-111820.html cliffs: Obama administration fucked up the CDC's priorities. Very little of the funding has been directed toward infectious disease topics.

elevenism
10-15-2014, 04:08 PM
Again, i apologize allegro . I REALLY dig talking to you and deeply value your presence here. Here (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/14/world/europe/ebola-outbreak/index.html) is that frightening projection.

And, lol, it's posted with a video talking about how hard it is to catch ebola. I've been hearing this same 2 min soundbyte 5 times a day or so.

Cat Mom
10-15-2014, 04:13 PM
Here (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/14/world/europe/ebola-outbreak/index.html) is that frightening projection.
Yeah, I saw that report in the paper this morning. But the 1,000 deaths in the U.S., I sure hope not.

(Oh, and no apology is necessary. Online communication is a tricky thing.) :)

Cat Mom
10-15-2014, 04:16 PM
CDC stuff seems like it should really be part of the defense budget. But since Hillary is trying to use the ebola situation as a "republicans fault cause they cut the budget"... well it should be worth noting that it's bullshit. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/10/the-facts-about-ebola-funding-111820.html cliffs: Obama administration fucked up their priorities. Very little of the funding has been directed toward infectious disease topics.
Heh, That was written by Bobby Jindal? "Our Constitution states that the federal government 'shall protect each of [the States] against Invasion' — a statement that should apply as much to infectious disease as to foreign powers."

DigitalChaos
10-15-2014, 04:43 PM
Heh, That was written by Bobby Jindal? "Our Constitution states that the federal government 'shall protect each of [the States] against Invasion' — a statement that should apply as much to infectious disease as to foreign powers."
I actually hadn't heard of Jindal until I read that. And that stance on "protection against invasion" ... im not sure if that would hold up in SCOTUS but I think this could fall into the general defense of our military. HHS seems to be doing a shit job with the CDC anyway... fucking using CDC funding for things like voter registration and other stupid shit. The "invasion" thing kind of falls apart the moment something like Ebola pops up from within our borders. Also, an individual walking around and infecting people is very easily interpreted as an act of aggression that needs to be stopped.

cynicmuse
10-15-2014, 05:05 PM
Let me just share this... I know someone who works at a clinic very near to one of the potential US infections that popped up within the last week. They waited until a few days after it was known that they could be accepting an Ebola patient to figure out if their suits even fit.
That's not surprising. They'd only have been prepared if there was someone in the hospital administration who was pessimistic, paranoid, and a planner; I know that those type of people exist in IT/network security... not so sure about non-academic hospitals who don't have a focus on infectious disease. Hospitals aren't used to dealing with infectious outbreaks in the US, with the exception of maybe tuberculosis. I hope now that there has been a case with transmission that hospitals are putting plans and protocols in place.

I find it interesting that they've chosen to move (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health/texas-ebola-outbreak/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) patient #3 from Dallas to Emory. I wonder if this means that they're expecting more cases, or if they don't think that the Dallas hospital has gotten its containment protocols worked out.

I also agree with allegro on the self-monitoring bullshit. The worst part is that 10% of the diagnosed cases in Africa didn't have a fever (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-1012-ebola-fever-20141012-story.html#page=1).

The only bright spot in this current outbreak is that the development of potential vaccines and rapid, simple tests is being publicized. Hopefully they'll provide a cure or at least increase the survival rate.

DigitalChaos
10-15-2014, 06:01 PM
That's not surprising. They'd only have been prepared if there was someone in the hospital administration who was pessimistic, paranoid, and a planner; I know that those type of people exist in IT/network security... not so sure about non-academic hospitals who don't have a focus on infectious disease. Hospitals aren't used to dealing with infectious outbreaks in the US, with the exception of maybe tuberculosis. I hope now that there has been a case with transmission that hospitals are putting plans and protocols in place.

Wouldn't that therefore mean that nobody is actually responsible for everyone's security when it comes to infectious diseases? Ensuring you are prepped for various bad situations is the proper approach to security (as you pointed out with IT/net security, as an example). It doesn't sound like the CDC is supplying these hospitals with the gear or training they need to handle this either.

DigitalChaos
10-15-2014, 06:17 PM
I terms of confidence boosters...

Nearly 5 hour wait times for the CDC helpline that the people who shared a flight with the 2nd nurse are supposed to call...
https://soundcloud.com/texaspublicradio/cdc-helpline-for-people-who-traveled-on-frontier-airlines-flight-1143

Cat Mom
10-15-2014, 06:42 PM
I actually hadn't heard of Jindal until I read that.
(As an aside, Meet Bobby Jindal (http://www.lifenews.com/2014/06/12/louisiana-gov-bobby-jindal-signs-pro-life-bill-that-could-close-three-abortion-clinics/))

miss k bee
10-15-2014, 06:44 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/10/15/dallas-nurse-ebola-conditions-usa_n_5988470.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

elevenism
10-15-2014, 06:44 PM
I terms of confidence boosters...

Nearly 5 hour wait times for the CDC helpline that the people who shared a flight with the 2nd nurse are supposed to call...
https://soundcloud.com/texaspublicradio/cdc-helpline-for-people-who-traveled-on-frontier-airlines-flight-1143

jeeeeeezus.
and see, shit like THIS, along with ignorance and selfishness/irresponsibility (like that lady getting on the fucking plane)
are why i am predicting a fairly high number of cases stateside.

cynicmuse
10-15-2014, 07:04 PM
Wouldn't that therefore mean that nobody is actually responsible for everyone's security when it comes to infectious diseases? Ensuring you are prepped for various bad situations is the proper approach to security (as you pointed out with IT/net security, as an example). It doesn't sound like the CDC is supplying these hospitals with the gear or training they need to handle this either.
Well, the CDC should be responsible, but Ebola is rather different than the infectious diseases that they're used to treating in the US because it's so contagious and so deadly (70% mortality rate (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/15/world/africa/ebola-epidemic-who-west-africa.html) is the current figure). Also, if you'd asked 6 months ago, I don't think that anyone would say that Ebola was a possibility in the US. Ideally, they should have been prepared. Realistically, I don't think that anyone outside of the biocontainment units was prepared. For example, one of the nurses at the Nebraska unit wrote a dissertation (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/14/nurse-ebola-protection_n_5980214.html) on proper personal protective equipment usage.

I agree that the CDC wasn't providing the required support; they seem to be doing it now, at least for the Dallas hospital. The CDC has had a rather bad year, especially with the anthrax and smallpox mishaps (http://www.newsweek.com/recent-cdc-anthrax-and-smallpox-mishaps-signal-potential-dangers-259923). Those events probably slowed their Ebola response.

What really needs to be improved is the response in Africa... until the infection rate there slows down, we'll keep seeing cases outside of Africa. They need personnel and infrastructure (per the above NYT article). Also, once the epidemic dies out, they're going to have to rebuild the health care systems, because most of the hospitals have shut down. Hopefully the US armed forces will help (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2014/10/15/u-s-military-will-need-until-december-to-complete-ebola-treatment-units-in-liberia/); they're building treatment centers and providing rapid testing for Ebola.

Going back the funding issue, the director of the NIH made some rather damning remarks (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/12/ebola-vaccine_n_5974148.html?utm_hp_ref=tw) regarding funding and the progress on an Ebola vaccine:


NIH has been working on Ebola vaccines since 2001. It's not like we suddenly woke up and thought, 'Oh my gosh, we should have something ready here.' Frankly, if we had not gone through our 10-year slide in research support, we probably would have had a vaccine in time for this that would've gone through clinical trials and would have been ready.

I get pissed when they try (and/or succeed) to cut funding to NIH and NSF; I contact my congress people and complain.

Edit: And now the CDC looks even worse (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-nurse-called-cdc-several-times/). The nurse who travelled with a 99.5F fever called the CDC before she flew and they didn't tell her not to fly... because her fever was below 100.4F.

DigitalChaos
10-15-2014, 07:08 PM
jeeeeeezus.
and see, shit like THIS, along with ignorance and selfishness/irresponsibility (like that lady getting on the fucking plane)
are why i am predicting a fairly high number of cases stateside.

The handling of Duncan, judging by the infection spread, is currently on par with the average in West Africa. Any additional people will put this one case under the bar of West Africa. And to add to this....


I'm reading some stuff (http://www.reddit.com/r/ebola/comments/2jbfui/user_involved_with_dallas_emergency_broke_that/cla8pji) from Dallas locals that can't really be validated, but one person (http://www.reddit.com/r/ebola/comments/2jbfui/user_involved_with_dallas_emergency_broke_that/) broke the 2nd nurse story before the media did. Summary: sounds like at least 5-6 additional healthcare workers are showing symptoms (fevers). The FBI is currently involved... sounds like it is because of death threats being received by the nurses who are all deleting their social media accounts. Also sounds like the hospital might be getting locked down and used as a quarantine for all the healthcare workers at risk.

Fixer808
10-15-2014, 07:47 PM
Where's Dustin Hoffman when you need him?
http://www.biolegend.com/NewsLegend/100114blog/outbreak.png

Cat Mom
10-15-2014, 08:30 PM
Also sounds like the hospital might be getting locked down and used as a quarantine for all the healthcare workers at risk.
Well it's about fucking time.


Edit: And now the CDC looks even worse (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-nurse-called-cdc-several-times/). The nurse who travelled with a 99.5F fever called the CDC before she flew and they didn't tell her not to fly... because her fever was below 100.4F.
What the FUCK!? On the other hand, why didn't she decide, herself, not to fly? Come ON, people! This isn't the fucking FLU.

Then, the Mayor of Chicago was on TV tonight saying that he expects that O'Hare and Midway airports can "screen people properly" to "prevent" this. Oh YEAH? Like, fucking HOW? Take every passenger's temperature and even if you have the flu you're quarantined?

Fixer808
10-15-2014, 08:34 PM
Come ON, people! This isn't the fucking FLU.
Good thing, that shit killed 70 million people in 1918-1920! ;)

Charmingly Miserable
10-15-2014, 10:46 PM
The experimental zmapp drug is pretty fascinating. It basically pauses ebola's ability to replicate and allows your body's natural antibodies to build up enough to kill it off. Typically, ebola just replicates much faster than the antibody production process. What is really crazy is the drug is derived from 3 different animal antibodies but they are now replicating them using tobacco plants! That's also why the drug is in crazy short supply and can't be made very fast.
I'm on the fence about this. Personally, I think putting anything animal inside my body is disgusting. Just the thought that they are using animals for this grosses me out.

Let me just share this... I know someone who works at a clinic very near to one of the potential US infections that popped up within the last week. They waited until a few days after it was known that they could be accepting an Ebola patient to figure out if their suits even fit.
See, this is the kind of dumb ass shit that's happening. This should not be an issue.

On that note, the CDC is not giving the best suggestion as to how health care workers should protect themselves (http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/ppe-poster.pdf). Where is the head and feet covering?

DigitalChaos
10-15-2014, 10:49 PM
Then, the Mayor of Chicago was on TV tonight saying that he expects that O'Hare and Midway airports can "screen people properly" to "prevent" this. Oh YEAH? Like, fucking HOW? Take every passenger's temperature and even if you have the flu you're quarantined?

If they don't say how, you know it's bullshit to placate people. The fever thing doesn't make much sense. You can very easily suppress the fever with Tylenol or ibuprofen. There is huge incentive to do this too... Thinking you only have the flu and don't want to get screwed by the filter. Wanting to get to the US for better care. Not wanting to be shoved into a horrible quarantine that exposes to to Ebola. Etc...

WHO was commenting about how bad all these false negatives are and reinforced the guidelines for testing. It includes a bare minimum of 48hrs to run a pair of tests. They also recently found out that incubation is up to 21 days for only 95% of people. Others are seeing up to 42 days. So... I've yet to see the US start operating on this info.


edit: citation for the WHO 48hr testing and new 42 day incubation finding: http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/14-october-2014/en/ (note that a lot of conspiracy/panic type sites are making dramatic headlines based on this info)

Cat Mom
10-15-2014, 11:12 PM
If they don't say how, you know it's bullshit to placate people.
It's the fucking "gun-like thermometer" and QUESTIONNAIRE, both of which are fucking useless due to ibuprofen, the flu and lying.

http://politics.suntimes.com/article/chicago/feds-screen-ebola-ohare-aldermen-demand-more/wed-10082014-1043am

Here's the asshole at his useless press conference on Oct 8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRZ_isV30lE

Cat Mom
10-15-2014, 11:42 PM
Good thing, that shit killed 70 million people in 1918-1920! ;)
Isn't that when they called it "The GRIP? (http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/12/1/pdfs/05-0979.pdf)"

DigitalChaos
10-15-2014, 11:51 PM
jesus christ that hurt to watch.

Meanwhile, people are finding ways to make insane profit on stupid scared people http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/10/15/ebola-marketing-ebola-suits-scams-better-business-bureau/17318793/ (http://www.ebolasuits.com/). These should sell nicely with the doomsday prepper types who are ready for the apocalypse but can't climb a flight of stairs without running out of breath.


The overhead on this compared to what they go for on sites like amazon is just insane. I might actually have to skip my 2004 era manson idea and go for the $15 ebola costume...

cynicmuse
10-16-2014, 01:02 AM
I'm on the fence about this. Personally, I think putting anything animal inside my body is disgusting. Just the thought that they are using animals for this grosses me out.
By the time the process (http://www.popsci.com/article/science/zmapp-experimental-ebola-treatment-explained) is finished, the monoclonal antibodies aren't really "animal". They start by infecting mice. They then take the antibodies generated by mice and humanize them through genetic engineering; they basically replace everything in the original antibody with the human equivalent except for the portion at the ends that recognizes Ebola. Then, in this case, they use tobacco plants that have been infected with a virus that causes them to make the antibody. For production of other monoclonal antibodies, they use Chinese hamster ovary cells.

DigitalChaos
10-16-2014, 01:38 AM
wow....... they really threw the Nurses under the bus. I'm not going to be surprised if a LOT more people end up infected either.

Statement by RN’s at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital as provided to National Nurses United
http://www.nationalnursesunited.org/blog/entry/statement-by-registered-nurses-at-texas-health-presbyterian-hospital-in-dal/

summary:
Media talks about "possible broken protocols" but it seems there were no protocols or training and the nurses were left to figure things out. They hit resistance when trying to do some of the correct things. They were given horribly inadequate gear. Nurses would care for other patients after caring for Duncan. Hazardous material was left to pile up to the ceiling. Patients in quarantine were moved out of quarantine even though they had fevers. They potentially contaminated the entire hospital tube system by sending Ebola samples through it. Even CDC officials were failing basic procedures and contaminating hallways.



i guess the silver lining is that if a hospital fucks up this bad, it only results in 2 people (so far) getting infected

cynicmuse
10-16-2014, 03:22 AM
Continuing the CDC screw ups... the original CDC protocols were too lax (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/us/lax-us-guidelines-on-ebola-led-to-poor-hospital-training-experts-say.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=HpSum&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0). They're now closer to the MSF standards. This infographic (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/15/us/changes-to-ebola-protection-worn-by-us-hospital-workers.html) in the NYT shows the differences in PPE and compares with the standards at the Nebraska biocontainment unit. They also go over the proper way to remove the gear (and compare with the old CDC guidelines). The standards also now require someone to watch the removal of the PPE, which is the point where exposure outside of things like needle sticks happens.

I've included the following quote because I find it to be particularly damning. It would have been too late for the infected nurses... but the CDC didn't listen to the people who successfully treated two highly infectious Ebola victims with no transmission to healthcare workers.


Sean G. Kaufman, who oversaw infection control at Emory University Hospital while it treated Dr. Kent Brantly and Nancy Writebol, the first two American Ebola patients, called the earlier C.D.C. guidelines “absolutely irresponsible and dead wrong.” ...Mr. Kaufman said he had warned the agency as recently as a week ago that its guidelines were lax. “They kind of blew me off,” he said. “I’m happy to see they’re changing them, but it’s late.”

DigitalChaos
10-16-2014, 01:13 PM
WaPo fact checks the claim that Republicans are to blame for cuts to Ebola research
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/10/15/the-absurd-claim-that-only-republicans-are-to-blame-for-cuts-to-ebola-research/

- GW Bush oversaw large increases in public-health spending
- a redux in spending was a bipartisan agreement
- In several instances, Congress has allocated more money for NIH and CDC than Obama administration requested

No mention of the Obama administration's horrible reprioritization of CDC resources toward ridiculous shit that has nothing to do with infectious diseases.


In conclusion, it's fucking gross that Democrats are choosing to try and play politics instead of worrying about the problem at hand first. I guess it's not surprising being that all this incompetence really puts a kink in their platform of having government play the parental figure that constantly cares for you. Their dishonest political blame-game further demonstrates the incompetence.

DigitalChaos
10-16-2014, 01:23 PM
Continuing the CDC screw ups... the original CDC protocols were too lax (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/us/lax-us-guidelines-on-ebola-led-to-poor-hospital-training-experts-say.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&version=HpSum&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0). They're now closer to the MSF standards.
It's almost like the MSF (Doctors Without Borders) has some experience with Ebola or something.... lol. Great articles and infographics. Here is one about the exact setup that MSF uses, including their entire protocol for entering/exiting: http://apps.washingtonpost.com/g/page/national/protection-from-ebola-a-complicated-procedure/1374/


Speaking of Doctors Without Borders, they are now saying that they have hit their limit with fighting Ebola. It is now growing faster than they can scale their workforce.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/15/us-health-ebola-msf-idUSKCN0I428N20141015


Meanwhile, the two nurses from Dallas have each been moved out of Dallas to two separate hospitals across the country. It seems the US only has 4 specialized hospitals (http://onlineathens.com/local-news/2014-10-13/texas-ebola-breakdown-prompts-questions-moving-patients-specialized-units) that can deal with Ebola and not turn it into the clusterfuck we are seeing in Dallas.

Jinsai
10-16-2014, 03:27 PM
In conclusion, it's fucking gross that Democrats are choosing to try and play politics instead of worrying about the problem at hand first.

It's not a party platform issue, and you'll find extremists on both sides of the aisle grasping at straws to play the blame game. Anyone who says that there aren't republicans politicizing this issue in a similar manner isn't paying attention.

Either way, sure let's just be happy that nobody took advantage of this moment to throw in a plug for their libertarian views.


their platform of having government play the parental figure that constantly cares for you

oh well, fuck it.

DigitalChaos
10-16-2014, 03:52 PM
It's not a party platform issue
agree


you'll find extremists on both sides of the aisle grasping at straws to play the blame game.
So, Hillary Clinton and the DCCC are extremists according to you. cool. noted.

Dra508
10-16-2014, 04:00 PM
Well, none of this would of happened if we had gotten Benghazi right.

DigitalChaos
10-16-2014, 04:01 PM
wat
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Cat Mom
10-16-2014, 05:26 PM
It's not a party platform issue
But both stupid fucking parties are gonna find a way to make it one. I've jumped ship to the independent game, I'm sick of all these party assholes, especially during times like this. They're all beholden to the corporate dollar, even the Liberturdians.

edit: Wow, gas prices here in Chicago, wow! In Wisconsin, we paid $3.09 for PREMIUM!

Ebola ftw!

Satyr
10-17-2014, 12:40 AM
But both stupid fucking parties are gonna find a way to make it one. I've jumped ship to the independent game, I'm sick of all these party assholes, especially during times like this. They're all beholden to the corporate dollar, even the Liberturdians.

edit: Wow, gas prices here in Chicago, wow! In Wisconsin, we paid $3.09 for PREMIUM!

Ebola ftw!

If Ebola is still a national crisis at election time we are gonna be having a really bad time.

Dra508
10-17-2014, 08:04 AM
If Ebola is still a national crisis at election time we are gonna be having a really bad time.Are you suggesting that people will or won't go to the polls because of Ebola?


Texas Hospital worker takes a cruise, turns into a leper (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/17/health/us-ebola/index.html)

FEARBOLA

Deepvoid
10-17-2014, 08:05 AM
Another hospital employee has been self-quarantined .. wait for it ... on a cruise ship! (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-cruise-ship-passenger-monitored-after-lab-work-in-dallas/)

Employee may have handled patient zero's fluid samples.

Cat Mom
10-17-2014, 09:46 AM
Are you suggesting that people will or won't go to the polls because of Ebola?
We have big elections here on Nov 4, I'm surprised it's not already in a few of the debates.

Donald Trump thinks stopping flights to/from West Africa will fix things, not remembering that somebody can fly from West Africa to, say, London, hang out a week, then fly to the U.S.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/522913285256249345

kdrcraig
10-17-2014, 10:01 AM
Donald Trump thinks stopping flights to/from West Africa will fix things, not remembering that somebody can fly from West Africa to, say, London, hang out a week, then fly to the U.S.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/522913285256249345

It's terrifying how many of the comments or whatever on that tweet are agreeing with that moron.

Dra508
10-17-2014, 10:31 AM
We have big elections here on Nov 4They're big for who? I ask because with all this voter ID bullshit also in the news, I wouldn't be surprised if some politicos were looking to suppress voter turn out in some otherebolaway.

jessamineny
10-17-2014, 12:11 PM
A Maine teacher is put on 21-day leave simply because she traveled to the city of Dallas (http://bangordailynews.com/2014/10/17/news/lewiston-auburn/school-teacher-in-strong-put-on-21-day-leave-over-ebola-fears/).

I really hope this is just cowardice and not utter stupidity... that weak leaders decided it was just easier to put her on leave than to stand up to a few loud parents and tell them they were being irrational.

DigitalChaos
10-17-2014, 01:54 PM
Are you suggesting that people will or won't go to the polls because of Ebola?


Texas Hospital worker takes a cruise, turns into a leper (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/17/health/us-ebola/index.html)

FEARBOLA
I think he is suggesting that Ebola will become a partisan battle topic which is good for absolutely nobody.

DigitalChaos
10-17-2014, 03:53 PM
lol...

http://i.imgur.com/gsOzjYp.jpg

DigitalChaos
10-17-2014, 05:51 PM
A Maine teacher is put on 21-day leave simply because she traveled to the city of Dallas (http://bangordailynews.com/2014/10/17/news/lewiston-auburn/school-teacher-in-strong-put-on-21-day-leave-over-ebola-fears/).

I really hope this is just cowardice and not utter stupidity... that weak leaders decided it was just easier to put her on leave than to stand up to a few loud parents and tell them they were being irrational.


well, Mexico just refused entry to an entire cruise ship because a passenger on board MAY have handled a sample from Duncan.... even though she is showing no symptoms and is sitting in voluntary isolation on the ship.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/10/17/cruise-ship-carrying-texas-ebola-nurse-refused-entry-in-belize/

Sarah K
10-17-2014, 05:52 PM
Lol @ calling this a crisis now.

Thousands of Africans die? Meh. No big deal.

A couple of US citizens get it? EVERYONE FUCKING PANIC SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING

DigitalChaos
10-17-2014, 05:56 PM
We have big elections here on Nov 4, I'm surprised it's not already in a few of the debates.

Donald Trump thinks stopping flights to/from West Africa will fix things, not remembering that somebody can fly from West Africa to, say, London, hang out a week, then fly to the U.S.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/522913285256249345

I don't agree with halting flights, but you can't say that halting flights to/from WA wouldn't dramatically decrease the chances of someone from WA carrying ebola into the US.

DigitalChaos
10-18-2014, 09:00 PM
'We're a floating petri dish': Panic onboard the 'Ebola cruise'
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/ebola/11171669/Were-a-floating-petri-dish-Panic-onboard-the-Ebola-cruise.html

I was laughing so hard at the panic of the people onboard. People are fucking CRYING!? I mean, this passenger is at a very low risk of having Ebola to begin with. Further, she has no symptoms AND is self-quarantined. That motherfucker isn't going to crawl through the airducts and rape-kill you... for fucks sake.

But then I got to the part where Belize and Mexico refused to allow the ship near their land or even provide flight transport for the Lab Supervisor back to the US, despite John Kerry calling them up and asking. What in the fuck is that all about? Inbound flights from West Africa are a MUCH higher risk than this and you haven't blocked them.

I can't disagree with their statement though: "It is clear, even in the US with all their capacity, with all their expertise, there are still a lot of unanswered questions as to how this thing gets transmitted. Their response, their approach, their treatment of the issue, seems to be a work in progress." yuuuuuup

Jinsai
10-18-2014, 11:10 PM
But then I got to the part where Belize and Mexico refused to allow the ship near their land or even provide flight transport for the Lab Supervisor back to the US, despite John Kerry calling them up and asking. What in the fuck is that all about? Inbound flights from West Africa are a MUCH higher risk than this and you haven't blocked them.

I thought Belize and Mexico had joined the list blocking incoming flights from ebola-stricken countries.

I agree this is hysteria, but WHY is this person on a cruise ship? What happened to the 21 day observation period, where you don't travel or do stuff? Even if you're sure it's unwarranted panic, placate people and just insist that the people working on patient zero not do something like... I dunno... embark on a cross country luxury cruise.

DigitalChaos
10-18-2014, 11:47 PM
I thought Belize and Mexico had joined the list blocking incoming flights from ebola-stricken countries.

I agree this is hysteria, but WHY is this person on a cruise ship? What happened to the 21 day observation period, where you don't travel or do stuff? Even if you're sure it's unwarranted panic, placate people and just insist that the people working on patient zero not do something like... I dunno... embark on a cross country luxury cruise.

I think you are right. Looks like Belize is blocking anyone who has traveled to WA in the last 30 days. So at least their actions are consistent. I couldn't find anything about Mexico.

As for the 21day period. Everyone was told to take their temperature daily. The first nurse became sick 2 days after the cruise started. I think any of the travel restrictions for asymptomatic people came after this.

cynicmuse
10-19-2014, 12:01 AM
I agree this is hysteria, but WHY is this person on a cruise ship? What happened to the 21 day observation period, where you don't travel or do stuff? Even if you're sure it's unwarranted panic, placate people and just insist that the people working on patient zero not do something like... I dunno... embark on a cross country luxury cruise.
Because the CDC dropped the ball again and didn't have a plan in place in place for what happened with the health workers after someone was treated for Ebola. Somewhat naively, someone assumed the best case scenario that no one had been infected... consequently, there were no controls in place.
Edit: though to be fair, the people at the Nebraska biocontainment unit weren't in quarantine (http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/10/19/nurses-at-dallas-hospital-were-initially-asked-to-self-monitor-for-signs-ebola/) after they treated patients... but they knew what they were doing.

Deepvoid
10-20-2014, 11:56 AM
And the cruise ship passenger has tested negative. (http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/2014/10/18/coast-guard-woman-aboard-cruise-ship-considered-asymptomatic/17522091/)

skullboy0
10-20-2014, 02:35 PM
Lol @ calling this a crisis now.

Thousands of Africans die? Meh. No big deal.

A couple of US citizens get it? EVERYONE FUCKING PANIC SHUT DOWN EVERYTHING

Reminds me of a retweet from William Gibson I saw yesterday. "My favourite stat of the day; more Americans have been married to Kim Kardashian than have died from Ebola"

Sarah K
10-20-2014, 02:43 PM
"More Americans have been dumped by Taylor Swift than have died from Ebola." - reddit

DigitalChaos
10-20-2014, 03:17 PM
And the cruise ship passenger has tested negative. (http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/2014/10/18/coast-guard-woman-aboard-cruise-ship-considered-asymptomatic/17522091/)
queue all the fucking "survival stories" from people on the ship.

jessamineny
10-20-2014, 03:58 PM
queue all the fucking "survival stories" from people on the ship.

People from a school district in Oklahoma who were on the cruise were being asked to stay home (http://www.koco.com/news/staff-families-from-five-school-districts-on-high-alert-over-ebola-concerns/29229120) until the lab technician was cleared. o_0

DigitalChaos
10-20-2014, 04:21 PM
After the dallas shitshow that even other countries are calling us out for, I'm not too surprised on the extreme over-caution.

DigitalChaos
10-20-2014, 04:23 PM
Meanwhile, the Pentagon is working to create a 30-person team of medical experts that can be quickly dropped onto Ebola cases that pop up in the US.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/pentagon-plans-ebola-domestic-response-team-of-medical-experts-to-aid-doctors/2014/10/19/4cad609a-57b4-11e4-bd61-346aee66ba29_story.html

Our hollywood view of the government having tens of thousands of men in black suits ready to dominate the shit out of these situations doesn't really hold up... They waited until NOW to develop this system and it ONLY has 30 people. And note that this is the Pentagon, not the CDC.

Sarah K
10-20-2014, 04:26 PM
JFK is paying people $19/hour to screen for ebola. Basically, taking temps and asking questions.

jessamineny
10-20-2014, 04:59 PM
Seems pretty standard for an EMT in NYC, no?

DigitalChaos
10-20-2014, 05:17 PM
Yeah, it's more a case of underutilizing someone that it is overpaying them. Certified EMTs for $19/hr and paramedics for $29/hr, if I remember correctly. I suppose it's better than paying random people who are more likely to infect themselves.

Sarah K
10-20-2014, 05:18 PM
They start at just under 32k through FDNY. But, as with most jobs like that around here, waiting lists are forever and ever.

Ryan
10-21-2014, 01:02 AM
Ebololololololola

Deepvoid
10-21-2014, 02:20 PM
School keeping two kids from attending classes because they moved to the US from Rwanda (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/elementary-school-throws-ebola-tantrum-over-two-kids-from-rwanda/)

Rwanda is obviously thousands of miles away from the infected region but hey .. it's in Africa!.
Quotes from parents on the record:

“Tell us when we come into the door. Don’t smile in my face and have a secret like that.”

“I don’t feel comfortable sending my daughter to school with people who could be infected with Ebola.”

Sarah K
10-21-2014, 02:25 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10404237_10153263157768082_8639145466036653817_n.j pg?oh=f224d0fab0d79b3635df6523f6c5e472&oe=54AD7AAF&__gda__=1421448121_72f99834a12408b08c3cc5f0027c9a2 4

DigitalChaos
10-21-2014, 03:22 PM
School keeping two kids from attending classes because they moved to the US from Rwanda (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/elementary-school-throws-ebola-tantrum-over-two-kids-from-rwanda/)

Rwanda is obviously thousands of miles away from the infected region but hey .. it's in Africa!.
Quotes from parents on the record:

“Tell us when we come into the door. Don’t smile in my face and have a secret like that.”

“I don’t feel comfortable sending my daughter to school with people who could be infected with Ebola.”

The beauty of this whole Ebola things is how much it has exposed the reality of humanity. We are all so self-confident about the advanced nature of our society. Then something fairly simple like Ebola comes along and shows that we are all just faking it.

DigitalChaos
10-22-2014, 12:18 AM
Looks like my suspicion that only 4 hospitals in the country are able to handle Ebola are suddenly becoming official.


CDC Plans To Route Future U.S. Ebola Patients To Specially Trained Hospitals
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/20/ebola-hospitals-us_n_6018372.html

"Frieden also confirmed significant changes to safety protocol for U.S. health workers who are caring for Ebola patients. The changes were reached by consensus among “all people in the U.S. with experience with Ebola,” as well as Doctors Without Borders (MSF)." About fucking time.... so much for those claiming the CDC's original rhetoric as fact.

I'm glad they are trying to get more than 4 hospitals setup to handle this though.


Also

Dallas hospital will no longer treat Ebola
http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/221397-dallas-hospital-will-not-treat-any-more-ebola-patients?

Sarah K
10-23-2014, 08:13 PM
First confirmed case in NYC.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/24/nyregion/craig-spencer-is-tested-for-ebola-virus-at-bellevue-hospital-in-new-york-city.html?_r=0

cynicmuse
10-23-2014, 09:04 PM
Now we get to see how a teaching hospital (Bellevue is associated with NYU's med school) handles Ebola. They've apparently been drilling for it and they've handled a few potential cases that turned out to be false alarms.

There was an interesting article (http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411677?query=featured_home) in this week's NEJM about the treatment of the patient in Hamburg, Germany who had Ebola. They didn't treat him with any of the experimental drugs because his viral load was dropping by the time that he was transferred (day 10 of infection). Instead, what almost killed him starting on day 13 of infection was sepsis. The authors postulate that sepsis is what's killing people who die late in the disease course.

Edit: This article in the NYT (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/24/health/without-lucrative-market-potential-ebola-vaccine-was-shelved-for-years.html) pisses me off. Researchers had a vaccine that 100% effective in monkeys against Ebola 9 years ago (and published their results in Nature (http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v11/n7/abs/nm1258.html), which isn't a fly by night journal... when people have fabricated their results and gotten published, it's been retracted quickly). However, since Ebola is a disease usually seen in Africa, there's no money in it for big pharma (or at least there wasn't before this current outbreak), and nobody was willing to pay the costs required for human safety trials. Now they're being done, but it's a little too late.

Here's the current status (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/10/23/world/africa/ebola-drugs.html) of potential Ebola treatments (monoclonal antibodies, antivirals, and vaccines), along with a list of who's been treated with it in the West and if they survived.

DF118
10-23-2014, 10:38 PM
Phew, what a relief. My office is in the most heavily visited part of Manhattan.

I'm not so worried about the virus, rather instead, the insane panic that will be rippling through NYC tomorrow onwards.

Edit: That said, Manhattan being what it is, it's possible nobody will give a shit.

DigitalChaos
10-23-2014, 10:47 PM
someone should tell NYPD not to throw ebola contaminated gloves in the public trash cans
https://vid.me/qzW

Sarah K
10-23-2014, 10:50 PM
There are about 5 billion things someone should tell NYPD to not do.

DF118
10-23-2014, 10:52 PM
Actually, now might be the ideal time to rely on the NYPD. The more people they accidentally shoot to death, the less people left who might act as carriers for Ebola.

In fairness, I logically know that nothing will likely come of this. However I also know how overpopulated and insanitary Manhattan is. This place is a sewer.

I'm not sure which concern is winning out, yet.

I can also appreciate the US gutter news have just been waiting for this to happen. Reactionary nonsense (like my own, admittedly) is the last thing NYC needs.

DigitalChaos
10-23-2014, 11:14 PM
lol you guys
yeah, it's unlikely anyone but his wife will get it. But it would be good if there wasn't another amateur hour on display like the Dallas hospital... especially AFTER the Dallas hospital. We really need to start demonstrating competency in handling single-person infections or the public confidence is going to keep falling apart, which means higher amounts of panic potential.


The news will ride on the whole bit about him riding the subway the day before his 103deg fever. He also took uber... uber should turn that into an add campaign about how they can track all riders who may have been in contact compared to a traditional taxi that can't do tracking.

DF118
10-23-2014, 11:24 PM
lol you guys
yeah, it's unlikely anyone but his wife will get it. It WOULD be good if it wasn't another amateur hour on display like the Dallas hospital... especially AFTER the Dallas hospital.


The news will ride on the whole bit about him riding the subway the day before his 103deg fever. He also took uber... uber should turn that into an add campaign about how they can track all riders who may have been in contact compared to a traditional taxi that can't do tracking.

That's the problem, though. This is the start of flu season here in Manhattan. People here know what a germ-ridden shithole this is, and paranoia is rife towards anyone who as much as sneezes anyway, this time of year.

Take one overly-hyped fatal (but largely inconsequential) disease, and one massively over-populated, already hugely unhealthy city, and add just the right mix of media fear mongering-

Again, either Manhattan will panic (the stock exchange will take a nose dive, and people will panic-buy their local bodegoes out of business, ect), or nobody will give a shit.

My money veers a little closer to the former, tbh.

Sarah K
10-23-2014, 11:34 PM
I mean, from the information we have so far, it doesn't sound like this case could have been handled any more "by the book". The man did everything right. The hospital has been preparing for this. It's now on them to not fuck it up

DigitalChaos
10-24-2014, 12:18 AM
So far that looks to be the case. The NYPD idiocy was the only thing that surprised me about the handling.

Dra508
10-24-2014, 10:17 AM
Again, either Manhattan will panic (the stock exchange will take a nose dive, and people will panic-buy their local bodegoes out of business, ect), or nobody will give a shit.

My money veers a little closer to the former, tbh.Official New Yorker over here people!

I suspect people outside of New York will freak out more than New Yorkers who already pretend to have a bubble around them when they commute around. I already had a facebook "friend" who lives in Westchester County post some comment calling out politicians for allowing this to happen. "Mr Holder, Mr. Bratton, Mr. DiBlaso?" Oh please just shut up.

Cat Mom
10-24-2014, 10:23 AM
Official New Yorker over here people!
LOL, the owners of all the bodegas are swearing en español.

You can probably already buy a hazmat suit at a bodega.

Dra508
10-24-2014, 10:30 AM
LOL, the owners of all the bodegas are swearing en español.

You can probably already buy a hazmat suit at a bodega.
Hazmat suit, a candle and one Newport Light cigarette please.

Just to be clear, I was call DF118 the official New Yorker. I honestly have never heard that term used anywhere else in the world.

Sarah K
10-24-2014, 10:42 AM
I've seen multiple comment that this doctor should have his medical license revoked, and he should be charged with crimes for public endangerment and put in jail.

Saw another person say that her children will not be Trick or Treating this year because of Ebola. Like, people are just incredibly stupid.

DF118
10-24-2014, 11:04 AM
LOL, the owners of all the bodegas are swearing en español.


You can probably already buy a hazmat suit at a bodega.

Hazmat suit, a candle and one Newport Light cigarette please.

Just to be clear, I was call @DF118 (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=53) the official New Yorker. I honestly have never heard that term used anywhere else in the world.

Hmmm, bodegoe. I meant bodega. I'm a hipster transplant.

*sneezes*

Cat Mom
10-24-2014, 11:19 AM
Just to be clear, I was call DF118 the official New Yorker.
He accidentally said "BodeGOES" instead of BodeGAS"


Hmmm, bodegoe. I meant bodega. I'm a hipster transplant.

*sneezes*
hahahaha!!

Dra508
10-24-2014, 01:26 PM
This is all reminding me to make my annual donation to Doctors Without Borders.

Cat Mom
10-24-2014, 09:50 PM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0op4GKIIAMNjzw.jpg

cynicmuse
10-24-2014, 11:49 PM
Speaking of hysteria, Gov. Cuomo and Gov. Christie (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/25/nyregion/new-york-ebola-case-craig-spencer.html?ref=health) have ordered a 21 day quarantine for anyone who has had direct contact with Ebola patients. I have serious doubts about this doing any good, because it relies on people telling the truth. Also, they announced this plan without any of the infrastructure required for it to work in place (aka quarantine location, how it would be enforced, etc). Even better, they didn't consult the NYC health department before the announcement. It seems like a blatant reactionary PR move.

On the Ebola vaccine front, they should start trials (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/25/business/ebola-vaccine-trials-planned-for-december.html) in December and have results by April; a vaccine could help stop this current outbreak.

Dra508
10-25-2014, 03:26 PM
Speaking of hysteria, Gov. Cuomo and Gov. Christie (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/25/nyregion/new-york-ebola-case-craig-spencer.html?ref=health) have ordered a 21 day quarantine for anyone who has had direct contact with Ebola patients. I have serious doubts about this doing any good, because it relies on people telling the truth. Also, they announced this plan without any of the infrastructure required for it to work in place (aka quarantine location, how it would be enforced, etc). Even better, they didn't consult the NYC health department before the announcement. It seems like a blatant reactionary PR move.
Big time. MSF was very restrained in their statement.
http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/article/statement-regarding-new-guidelines-announced-new-york-and-new-jersey

cynicmuse
10-25-2014, 04:49 PM
Good job, NJ. Your goons (http://www.dallasnews.com/ebola/headlines/20141025-uta-grad-isolated-at-new-jersey-hospital-as-part-of-ebola-quarantine.ece) hauled a nurse without a fever into quarantine (http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/article/msf-nurse-held-isolation-new-jersey) and then put her in an unheated tent outside while she was wearing paper scrubs.. Also, forehead temperature readers are apparently wildly inaccurate for certain conditions... if one is flushed, one can appear to have a fever, while an oral thermometer would give a normal reading. Hopefully after the election things will calm down.

DF118
10-25-2014, 07:14 PM
Later, on his campaign bus, Mr. Cuomo said many details of the quarantine were still being figured out. “We’re learning,” he said. “None of us have been here. It’s an iterative process.” He added: “There is no written ‘Ebola Policy 2014.’ So you learn, you adjust.” (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/nyregion/nurse-in-newark-tests-negative-for-ebola.html)

If an accurate quote: imbecilic.

"We're incompetent, so we're making it up as we go along".

I'm still in favor of the NYPD just shooting everyone in the East Coast.

DigitalChaos
10-26-2014, 11:46 AM
Well, at least they are honest. There isn't enough science to back a concrete process. I still don't know why we didn't start using everything the Doctors Without Borders team had developed.

Sarah K
10-26-2014, 03:42 PM
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6050450?ncid=fcbklnkushpmg00000063

The quarantined nurse has hired a civil rights lawyer.

Jinsai
10-26-2014, 04:12 PM
I don't think I sympathize too much with her cause.

It's not just a serious concern, it's a serious concern about an issue which the public in large is freaking the fuck out about. Any oversight is highly damaging to them.

So yes, if you fly in from West Africa right now, and you have a temperature of 101, and you've been treating patients with Ebola... you could expect AT LEAST a quarantine. If they just let you go your way, what do you think the public reaction would be if you actually had started manifesting symptoms of ebola?

Yes, they should give her a TV and fix the wifi. Maybe give her an Xbox and some books too. Actually, yeah, make it really nice for her. Fly in some celebrity chefs to make her meals. She is a hero, she's earned it, but she's staying in the tent until they're 100% sure she doesn't have ebola. It's not just a concern about the danger of her having the disease, it's the scandal that will inevitably go along with it.

I definitely don't buy the counterargument that this is going to be damaging to the people risking their lives to treat the disease in West Africa. These people are flying out to treat an Ebola outbreak, knowing they might very well contract it and die... but now they're not going to do it because if they come back to America they might be quarantined for a 21 day period to ensure that they aren't sick with the disease, and the cell phone reception might be bad?

Sarah K
10-26-2014, 05:51 PM
If someone is showing symptoms, I could totally understand that. But so far, she has shown zero symptoms at all, and is still being held.

My my friend is is Liberia right now. I just got done speaking with him. He isn't in direct contact with patients, but is in the facilities. He is unsure if he would be quarantined when he returns. But he will be over there for at least a couple of more weeks. So hopefully by the time he gets back, they will have their shit a little bit more together.

Jinsai
10-27-2014, 02:48 AM
If someone is showing symptoms, I could totally understand that. But so far, she has shown zero symptoms at all, and is still being held.

Having a high fever is a symptom. I don't know why they're not giving her the five star treatment, that really is bullshit, but a 21 day quarantine is reasonable. She says she just wants to stay with her boyfriend, and he's fine with it... so I don't understand why they're not letting him stay with her... in the deluxe quarantine tent.

cynicmuse
10-27-2014, 03:51 AM
Having a high fever is a symptom. I don't know why they're not giving her the five star treatment, that really is bullshit, but a 21 day quarantine is reasonable. She says she just wants to stay with her boyfriend, and he's fine with it... so I don't understand why they're not letting him stay with her... in the deluxe quarantine tent.

I'm fine with putting people in a 21 day quarantine, in their own home, with a guarantee of food and water and other such necessities, with twice daily visits from health professionals to check their temperatures, if the people have been directly exposed to someone who is infected (aka the NBC camera crew and the family of Thomas Eric Duncan), because in that case, people have proved that they'll violate quarantine. With the health care professionals who have treated Ebola victims in west Africa, their level of exposure is most likely minimal, especially if they've been working for MSF, which has a very, very low transmission rate.

At this point, it's not clear that this nurse ever had a fever. Option A: believe the nurse's version (http://www.dallasnews.com/ebola/headlines/20141025-uta-grad-isolated-at-new-jersey-hospital-as-part-of-ebola-quarantine.ece) of events. She says that a forehead thermometer gave a reading of 101 at the airport. When she was at the hospital, they checked her temperature orally; it was normal. They then checked with a forehead scanner, and it read 101 again; she claims that the false reading was due to her being flushed. I'm not a medical professional; I have no idea how accurate forehead temperature scanners are and under what conditions they can give false readings. Option B: she's a human; all humans lie. She did have a fever at some point at the airport. However, she's had two separate Ebola tests and has tested negative (http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/26/health/new-jersey-quarantined-nurse/index.html) each time (and while she is the source for claiming that her tests are negative, I can guarantee that Christie would be telling anyone who'd listen how his policy saved NJ from exposure to Ebola if she were positive).

Gov. Cuomo and Gov. Christie have since backed down on their quarantine stance (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/27/nyregion/ebola-quarantine.html). They're now letting NY and NJ residents returning from west Africa who have treated Ebola patients to spend quarantine in their homes. The nurse is still screwed because she's a resident of Maine.

This quarantine isn't based on medical science; it's based on fear. While I have a low opinion of the CDC and their guidelines for Ebola, I do think that MSF knows what they're doing. They do have evidence based protocols (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/doctors-without-borders-confused-state-recommendations-n234201) in place for returning health workers: monitor one's temperature twice a day and report any symptoms immediately.

Finally, what about the medical professionals treating the patient in Bellevue? Are they going to be quarantined while they're treating the patient? They have at least the same probable level of exposure as the medical professionals who have been in west Africa.

Also, medical professionals can still fly into DC or Atlanta and avoid this nonsense... or a flight to Canada and then a road trip across the border.

Jinsai
10-27-2014, 04:09 AM
Finally, what about the medical professionals treating the patient in Bellevue? Are they going to be quarantined while they're treating the patient? They have at least the same probable level of exposure as the medical professionals who have been in west Africa.

This is just not true though. The doctor was operating in an area where the disease has now infected 10,000 people. She wasn't just coming into contact with one individual, in a perfectly isolated space, with the strictest protocol imaginable.

She has tested negative each time, but you can apparently test negative for quite a long time up until the point where you're contagious. The virus incubates. Also, like I said before, this is partly to quell public blowback, and it's not completely insane (yet).



This quarantine isn't based on medical science; it's based on fear.

Almost certainly true. The thing is, the fear is real. You could call it complete lip service to placate a hysteric population, but it's predictable and pretty much expected. In a case like this, quarantine is a pretty easy solution. I'm not a big fan of Christie, but he's swaying with the political wind. The reason he's backing down from the quarantine is his team reading the opinion polls.

Honestly, the best solution is to just quarantine people who are coming in from West Africa, and make it a spa. You get two massages a day from someone in a hazmat suit, and they take your temperature and make sure you're not sick. Anyone who wants to be quarantined with you can jump in on the fun. They get massages too, and free HBO. You get government funded sick-leave pay, you get whatever you want. The only thing about this that's fucked up in my opinion is the nature of the quarantine.


Also, medical professionals can still fly into DC or Atlanta and avoid this nonsense... or a flight to Canada and then a road trip across the border.

Yep... which is something that is occurring to the politicians who are backing down from their previous stances on the issue of quarantining people. The thing is, the "serious" examinations upon point of entry don't mean much. The disease incubates for 21 days. Best solution I can think of is spend a million dollars and make getting quarantined awesome, and quarantine everyone coming in from West Africa.

Sarah K
10-27-2014, 06:55 AM
She hasn't shown a fever yet, though. Unless I missed a story somewhere.

Sarah K
10-27-2014, 09:23 AM
http://gothamist.com/2014/10/27/cuomo_ebola_quarantine.php

Cuomo has caved... People who show no symptoms can self quarantine for the 21 day period. If their employer will not pay them for that time, the state will compensate them.

Deepvoid
10-27-2014, 09:40 AM
Nurse is being discharged as well (http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/This-Is-Governments-Job-Christie-Defends-Quarantine-After-Nurse-Blasts-Treatment-280452692.html).

Cat Mom
10-27-2014, 10:00 AM
http://gothamist.com/2014/10/27/cuomo_ebola_quarantine.php

Cuomo has caved... People who show no symptoms can self quarantine for the 21 day period. If their employer will not pay them for that time, the state will compensate them.

That makes more sense, otherwise people are gonna LIE.


I'm fine with putting people in a 21 day quarantine, in their own home, with a guarantee of food and water and other such necessities, with twice daily visits from health professionals to check their temperatures, if the people have been directly exposed to someone who is infected (aka the NBC camera crew and the family of Thomas Eric Duncan), because in that case, people have proved that they'll violate quarantine. With the health care professionals who have treated Ebola victims in west Africa, their level of exposure is most likely minimal, especially if they've been working for MSF, which has a very, very low transmission rate.
Exactly!

DigitalChaos
10-27-2014, 02:50 PM
I was secretly hoping the impossible would happen: Open Carry militia rides in and escorts her out. But then I realized that those are the same idiots who think this is all Obama's fault for not stopping all air travel.

Jinsai
10-27-2014, 03:29 PM
http://gothamist.com/2014/10/27/cuomo_ebola_quarantine.php

Cuomo has caved... People who show no symptoms can self quarantine for the 21 day period. If their employer will not pay them for that time, the state will compensate them.


Again, I'm not an alarmist... but what's to stop someone who is supposed to be self-quarantined from... completely ignoring the quarantine. I'm just authentically curious how this works.

Sarah K
10-27-2014, 03:41 PM
Well, they're going to be checked on by "officials(I'm unclear if this is police, CDC people, etc)" twice a day. I would suspect that those checks would be random.

And really... Once any of them spikes a fever, their first stop is going to be the hospital. A healthcare professional who has been exposed to Ebola isn't going to go traipsing about town once they have a symptom.

Dra508
10-27-2014, 03:45 PM
Again, I'm not an alarmist... but what's to stop someone who is supposed to be self-quarantined from... completely ignoring the quarantine. I'm just authentically curious how this works.I think part of the self quarantine has Public Health workers coming by to take your temperature and bring you food. That's what the MSF doc in NYC's finance is now doing. (http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ebola-infected-doctors-fiancee-back-home/story?id=26450510)

Sarah K
10-27-2014, 03:58 PM
Wow. It even says they will have security outside of their apartments 24/7.

Jinsai
10-27-2014, 04:16 PM
well, then the self quarantine is a better (and more economic) solution than the hazmat-spa that I was proposing.

miss k bee
10-27-2014, 07:47 PM
Reading this cant believe how callous Patrick Sawyer (Nigeria's first case of the virus was) with still wanting to leave while very ill brave doctor paid with her life
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/ebola/11187612/UK-trained-doctor-who-died-to-save-Nigeria-from-Ebola.html