Conspiracy Theories [Archive] - Echoing the Sound

theimage13

09-25-2014, 12:23 AM

Santa Claus (aka. Father Christmas) is a nice man who brings presents to children (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Children) who have been good each year.[1] (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Santa_Claus#cite_note-0) Proof of this is the existence of presents in people's homes on Christmas (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Christmas) morning. [2] (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Santa_Claus#cite_note-1) The main counterargument to this, that parents buy and wrap the presents themselves, is preposterous. We are, in all seriousness, asked to believe that every parent in the Western world (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Western_world) is part of some vast conspiracy (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory).
Whoever runs this conspiracy, or how it is funded and administered, is of course never stated. No, it is much easier to accept that a magic (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Magic) man flies all over the world in one night on a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer, and that he carries hundreds of millions of presents all at the same time. This is easy once you accept that elvesdidit (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Goddidit).

Source: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Santa_Claus

icecream

09-25-2014, 01:25 AM

Nazi moon bases is the only conspiracy theory I believe in. We shouldn't worry about all the conflict on Earth while the Second World War isn't even over. Send our boys to the moon and give Hitler hell!

slave2thewage

09-25-2014, 05:30 AM

My fave is the guy who says we have bases on Mars and Titan and there's an actual Earth Defense Squad that fight off alien invasions at the edge of the solar system. Frankly, I want in.

theimage13

09-25-2014, 10:55 AM

henryeatscereal

09-25-2014, 12:23 PM

10 conspiracy theories based in Stanley Kubrick's "The Shining"... (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/the-filter/10253283/The-Shining-10-best-conspiracy-theories.html)

...there's even a documentary about them called "Room 237" (watch only if you have WAY too much time in your hands)

nin5in

09-25-2014, 02:11 PM

My favorite one is the Illuminati/Freemason/New World Order conspiracy theory.

slave2thewage

09-25-2014, 02:27 PM

Room 237 was the most BORING thing I have seen in my life.

Space Suicide

09-27-2014, 02:49 PM

icecream

09-27-2014, 03:03 PM

I love reading, seeing and watching conspiracy theory articles, shows and videos. I don't believe them really but a lot are compelling.

I suggest anyone who is into the stuff to watch reruns of Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura!

Even if not true, amusing and good stuff to watch.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Rough-Guide-Conspiracy-Theories/dp/1409362450

Read this book a few years ago. Pretty entertaining stuff. Some of them were quite funny, it's hard to believe people take some of them as truth.

Space Suicide

09-27-2014, 03:04 PM

http://www.amazon.com/The-Rough-Guide-Conspiracy-Theories/dp/1409362450

Read this book a few years ago. Pretty entertaining stuff. Some of them were quite funny, it's hard to believe people take some of them as truth.

Lizard people are the most head scratching theory I've ever heard.

icecream

09-27-2014, 03:24 PM

Same. One from the book was Elvis killed JFK because he was jealous of his popularity.

henryeatscereal

09-27-2014, 03:43 PM

Same. One from the book was Elvis killed JFK because he was jealous of his popularity.
I hope that really happened, Elvis avenged Marilyn Monroe's death! :P

Fixer808

09-27-2014, 04:19 PM

My fave is the guy who says we have bases on Mars and Titan and there's an actual Earth Defense Squad that fight off alien invasions at the edge of the solar system. Frankly, I want in.

I worked with a useless hippie who talked about a "documentary" he watched about how there's already bases on Mars because of the wormhole technology the World Government has. Also, intergalactic space navy.

thevoid99

09-27-2014, 10:59 PM

Same. One from the book was Elvis killed JFK because he was jealous of his popularity.

Well, Elvis did become friends with Nixon and they shared an enemies list that included the Beatles.

henryeatscereal

09-28-2014, 02:58 PM

Sorry i couldn't resist...

http://www.neeerd.com/img/imgAlbumes/2314/7013/0011_ESMeFt7t-los-simpsons-en-sucesos-historicos-simpsonsenhechosr-simpsonsenlahist.jpg

green

10-07-2014, 09:30 PM

Gay agenda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_agenda) Sounds silly to me, but it's out there regardless.

Homosexual agenda (or gay agenda) is a term introduced by some conservative Christians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_right) in the United States as a disparaging way to describe the advocacy of cultural acceptance and normalization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_social_movements) of non-heterosexual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-heterosexual) orientations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation) and relationships. The term refers to efforts to change government policies and laws on LGBT rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights) related issues. The term has also been used by some social conservatives (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_conservatism_in_the_United_States) and others to describe alleged goals of LGBT rights activists, such as recruiting heterosexuals into what they term a "homosexual lifestyle" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_recruitment).Pretty far out there, huh?

slave2thewage

10-07-2014, 09:35 PM

I have a gay agenda. Going grocery shopping and then to the pub in the afternoon. Gonna bring down the Christian world with my pint and new bottle of conditioner.

green

10-09-2014, 11:19 AM

Good grief, I found another one about the gays: Velvet Mafia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_Mafia)

So apparently, there's this Gay Mafia prancing around whacking off those who dare speak out against the Gay agenda. C'mon guys, is this for real?

slave2thewage

10-09-2014, 01:23 PM

orestes

10-10-2014, 09:20 PM

Topical as fuck. (http://www.ted.com/talks/lz_granderson_the_myth_of_the_gay_agenda)

ambergris

10-11-2014, 05:54 AM

http://media.tumblr.com/dc34b9cf888b1cf9165b06a6cfc6016a/tumblr_inline_n5s6vglkw31rfc759.gif

There surely must be a drag queen going by the name "Gayle Agenda" or something like that.

Also, there's a theory that the Nazis survived on an outpost in an antarctic region called New Swabia.

Sutekh

10-12-2014, 02:48 PM

Remember the letters filled with Anthrax spores that turned up in America just after 9/11?

Turns out they were sent by an American who had patented Anthrax treatments and wanted a nice state security contract

They were just about to nick him, and he turned up dead.

This is all 100% true and a matter of record, they just don't shout it from the rooftops. Pretty funny because people believe the most ridiculous 9/11/terror war conspiracy theories and yet I have never seen anyone mention this totally verifiable yet unbelievable story

edit - just remembered he was also on the FBI team investigating the anthrax letters. It really is straight out of 24

slave2thewage

10-12-2014, 04:16 PM

There surely must be a drag queen going by the name "Gayle Agenda" or something like that.

Also, there's a theory that the Nazis survived on an outpost in an antarctic region called New Swabia.

If I was doing drag now, my stage name would be "Ebola Gay" ;). Also, time to read up on these frozen Nazis. Should be a hoot!

Space Suicide

10-12-2014, 05:03 PM

Another compelling conspiracy theory I've seen/read about is the bunkers and havens in the Ozark Mountains.

http://www.mindinvasions.com/the-ozarks-conspiracy.html

I watched videos and it does somewhat support it oddly, not sure what's the purpose though.

4,500th post. Whooo hoooo!

elevenism

10-17-2014, 07:25 PM

people who believe every conspiracy theory they read, like my sister in law, drive me crazy. i can't have a rational conversation with her about fringe subjects. (she's convinced that we have teleported people to mars)

HOWEVEr, there are some things out there that are true and/or baffling.
Things like the fact that there was never any attack in the Gulf of Tonkin, which was our justification for the invading Viet Nam, are proof that not all conspiracy theories are bullshit.

The whole UFO thing interests me, but now that we know that our gvmt has been actively disseminating misinformation, you never know what's real and what isn't. I saw a documentary called Mirage Men that gets into recently declassified stuff that shows the length to which the US gvmt has gone to confuse people about UFOs. They literally drove one man crazy by making him think that he was recieving alien transmissions on his computer and radio (they stole his computer and switched it with theirs.)

I will admit that i most DEFINitely believe in interdimensional "visitors." I'm not sure about the interstellar variety.

And fucking september 11th.
I'm not a hardcore truther, but SOMEthing fishy happened that day.
Why did Norad stand down, and why were they engaged in excercises that involved planes crashing into buildings on the day that such an unlikely scenario really went down?

And my biggest question is WHAt iN THE FUCK happened to the two planes that didn't hit the towers? Why was there no debris?
I believe that those two planes were somehow vaporized, maybe with a small tactical nuclear device.

So yeah, i'm a conspiracy theorist, but i take it all with a grain of salt, unlike my sister in law who expects the Annunaki to arrive any day.

tony.parente

10-17-2014, 09:44 PM

http://www.spiritscienceandmetaphysics.com/ebo-lie-man-living-in-ghana-confirms-ebola-is-a-hoax/

Can we all sit and laugh at these people?

Sutekh

10-18-2014, 11:42 AM

mate add david icke on facebook, every day you will have a weird simultaneous laugh/rage at the stuff he posts
in addition to the same old chestnuts about vaccines and banks, did you know

sun cream gives you skin cancer
lightbulbs poison you
renewable energy is a scam
al qaeda isn't in the news anymore because it never existed (despite tearing up yemen and pakistan as we speak)
and of course reptoids reptoids reptoids

Louie_Cypher

10-18-2014, 02:07 PM

This one is kind of fun http://vigilantcitizen.com/ a lot on music industry and the Illuminati.
-enjoy

Lew

10-18-2014, 02:22 PM

Jinsai

10-18-2014, 03:39 PM

And my biggest question is WHAt iN THE FUCK happened to the two planes that didn't hit the towers? Why was there no debris?

There was, just not large recognizable pieces. This is because the planes weren't similar to the debris you'd see in an accident where the plane attempted to land. These planes did not skid on the ground, bounce back up into the air, attempt to slow down, and then wreck. They didn't even hit the ground at an angle that would correspond to an attempt to land. They were flown full speed into their targets. Planes, when they are not flown by suicidal madmen, slow down when they're landing. These planes hit their targets nose-first at over 500 miles per hour. The only plane that they think was actually slowed down (by bouncing off the ground before hitting its target) was the Pentagon plane. The reason there's not much visible wreckage there is because the majority of the plane actually traveled into the building. There are overhead shots showing how far the plane actually traveled into the building (as it was exploding). Still, there is some wreckage on the outside lawn, and a clear photo of something with the United logo on it.

We don't see the same skepticism really over the absence of WTC plane wreckage, because we all saw them explode into a fireball from a variety of angles. We can see how the plane exploded while entering the building. Although, just last year, we found a 5-foot-long part of one of the planes wedged in with a bunch of trash...

But you seriously think they were hit with tactical NUKES?! Why would we fire a nuclear weapon at the planes! If we wanted to blow them out of the sky, we wouldn't have to use a nuke. We certainly wouldn't shoot a nuke at a plane that would have been on the cusp of flying directly into the pentagon. With flight 93 (the one that crashed in Pennsylvania) you can see a huge crater that the plane made in the ground when it hit! If it was "vaporized" why would there be a huge smoldering crater in the ground?

http://911review.com/errors/phantom/imgs/shankshole3.jpg

In the next photo, you can see the crater from a different angle, and you can see small pieces of debris everywhere.

http://911review.com/errors/phantom/imgs/crater1.jpg

here's part of the plane's engine

http://911review.com/errors/phantom/imgs/crater2.jpg

additionally, with the pentagon attack, we have several eye witnesses.
And here's the engine from the pentagon crash:

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/docs/enginerotor.jpg

here's the landing gear

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/docs/hub_context.jpg

part of the plane exterior found on the lawn, with comparison shot to determine the origin

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/docs/fitcloser.jpg

elevenism

10-18-2014, 04:44 PM

@Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) , i had never seen those photos.
And i misspoke.

I thought that 93 might have been nuked. But you're right, there is a smoldering crater in the ground...

i just...the plane appeared to have been vaporized.

I don't talk about this shit with many people. Thank you for the pics.

But i still mantain that there were too many strange things on nine eleven for there not to have been SOMETHING fishy going on.

I actually started writing down notes to start a thread about it a few months ago, but i didn't for fear of ridicule.

I am a conspiracy theorist for sure, mostly because my grandfather died under mysterious circumstances (murder made to look like an accident in my opinion,) shortly after employing george w bush at Stratford of Tx. After his death, the company went to Bush's fellow skull and bonesman Robert Gow.
I'm not gonna tell the whole story here because i've told it elsewhere on this board, but high powered men changing things to suit their wills has hit VERY close to home for me.

Lew

10-18-2014, 05:03 PM

personally, i really enjoy reading about alternate dimensions and enjoy the idea of arcturians.
i haven't read too much about arcturians, yet, but enough to find the whole concept plausible.
i don't think there is anything wrong about being open to conspiracy theories and alternate concepts of reality and experience and perspective.
i reckon it is healthier than being in the stranglehold of absolutes.

elevenism

10-18-2014, 09:32 PM

people like David Icke and Alex Jones make those of us who question the government and media version of every event look like fools.
and that is exactly what the government wants.
They lie to us about all KINDS of shit!

It baffles me how many people believe every conspiracy theory they hear,
but what baffles me even more is how many people believe everything they are told by the government.

Let me ask you guys something, and don't be afraid of ridicule.
Do you believe that the gvmt has told us everything about 9/11 ?

There have been so many polls like this one...

In November 2007 Scripps Howard surveyed 811 Americans about their beliefs in several conspiracy theories and asked this question:[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_about_9/11_conspiracy_theories#cite_note-17)
How about that some people in the federal government had specific warnings of the 9/11 attacks in New York and Washington, but chose to ignore those warnings. Is this very likely, somewhat likely or unlikely?

32% "Very Likely"
30% "Somewhat Likely"
30% "Unlikely"
8% "Don't Know/Other"

For more of that, check this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_about_9/11_conspiracy_theories) out.

And for one of the biggest slaps in the face, read about the gulf of tonkin lie here (http://www.cracked.com/article_19884_6-insane-conspiracy-theories-that-actually-happened_p2.html).

So when people KNOW that the government has lied to us flat-out to justify wars, or that big pharma companies knowingly sold hemophelia products tainted with hep and hiv (and then sold them to other countries when they couldn't get by with it anymore,) why do they continue to believe everything they are told?

ambergris

10-19-2014, 06:27 AM

Let me ask you guys something, and don't be afraid of ridicule.
Do you believe that the gvmt has told us everything about 9/11 ?

There have been so many polls like this one...

In November 2007 Scripps Howard surveyed 811 Americans about their beliefs in several conspiracy theories and asked this question:[17] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polls_about_9/11_conspiracy_theories#cite_note-17)
How about that some people in the federal government had specific warnings of the 9/11 attacks in New York and Washington, but chose to ignore those warnings. Is this very likely, somewhat likely or unlikely?

32% "Very Likely"
30% "Somewhat Likely"
30% "Unlikely"
8% "Don't Know/Other"

This question is tricky though. The Bin Laden memo exists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Ladin_Determined_To_Strike_in_US. So the question is not as stupid as it sounds. It depends on the word "specific". The "how" was unknown, but the "when" was known.

allegro

10-19-2014, 01:28 PM

Do you believe that the gvmt has told us everything about 9/11 ?
My husband was working radar air traffic control the morning of Sept 11, and I can assure you that those planes were hijacked. it was utter chaos. Missiles would have shown up on radar. That didn't happen.

Also, as somebody who had plenty of contact with the FBI via BBSs in the 80s and early-90s, I can tell you that the FBI was so fucking stupid, they could barely check their email let alone intercept al-Quaeda messages. None of the idiots could speak Farsi or Arabic. Tons of people allegedly tried to tip off the FBI of some arab dudes learning how to take off planes but not land them, but the FBI blew it off. The FBI were a bunch of fucking idiots. Maybe they're better, now, but it's a case of much too little too late. I don't doubt that the U.S. government lies to us a lot, but this is absolutely a case of government incompetence and being caught with its pants down.

marodi

10-19-2014, 01:59 PM

My husband was working radar air traffic control the morning of Sept 11, and I can assure you that those planes were hijacked. it was utter chaos. Missiles would have shown up on radar. That didn't happen.

Also, as somebody who had plenty of contact with the FBI via BBSs in the 80s and early-90s, I can tell you that the FBI was so fucking stupid, they could barely check their email let alone intercept al-Quaeda messages. None of the idiots could speak Farsi or Arabic. Tons of people allegedly tried to tip off the FBI of some arab dudes learning how to take off planes but not land them, but the FBI blew it off. The FBI were a bunch of fucking idiots. Maybe they're better, now, but it's a case of much too little too late. I don't doubt that the U.S. government lies to us a lot, but this is absolutely a case of government incompetence and being caught with its pants down.

Amen sister!
elevenism you need to watch Path to Paradise (it's on youtube in its entirety. Not just you but anyone who is interested in the story of the World Trade Center. Path to Paradise was made in 1997 and it's about the first terrorist attack on the Twin Towers (funny how we barely remember this).

You have to remember that it's a TV movie, made in Hollywood so of course it's not 100% accurate. Mostly, it tells exactly what allegro was saying: the FBI and the CIA had plenty of warnings and red flags that something huge was going to happen at the WTC and they dropped the gun big time. So I have no problems believing that the same thing happened for 9/11.

One of the first thing that came to my mind when I learned that the Twin Towers had crashed was the last line of this movie: one of the mastermind behind the 1993 attack is brought back to the USA to be put on trial and while he's flying (by helicopter) next to the WTC, he looks at the towers and says: "Next time, we will bring both of them down." That in a movie made in 1997.

That's the stuff conspiracy theories are made of.

elevenism

10-19-2014, 07:53 PM

One of the first thing that came to my mind when I learned that the Twin Towers had crashed was the last line of this movie: one of the mastermind behind the 1993 attack is brought back to the USA to be put on trial and while he's flying (by helicopter) next to the WTC, he looks at the towers and says: "Next time, we will bring both of them down." That in a movie made in 1997.

That's the stuff conspiracy theories are made of.

Jesus. That's creepy.

But i will never, ever believe everything we've been told about 9/11. I'm not one of those people who believes that the planes were never highjacked, that they were holograms projected into the sky, that the gvmt was completely behing the attacks.

But i have about 100 unanswered questions. I believe in my heart of hearts that there are things we haven't been told.

And even if 9/11 happened EXACTLY as the gvmt says it did, its use as a pretext for an invasion of iraq was SO fucking despicable.
The Bush administration bet on the American public's inability to distinguish Iraq from the Taliban and Saddam from Osama. And they won that bet, with ABSURD numbers of americans believing that Iraq was responsible for the attacks. That wasn't an accident.

My remaining problems with the official story of 9/11 are things like "oh, we didn't find any body parts or luggage but we DID find this terrorist's passport intact." Or how about the woman on the news reporting that building 7 had collapsed, when, on a live feed behind her, it was still standing and THEN collapsed?

I don't have a theory on what happened. I just know there was SOMEthING fishy about 9/11. There's just too much.

I REALly don't want you guys to think i'm a conspiracy nut who believes that reptilian aliens run the world or any of that shit.
I'm just very, VERY skeptical of what we are told by the gvmt. I have to be, after learning what happened to my grandfather.
That, the tainted hemophelia drug in the eighties, and the Gulf of Tonkin thing have made it to where i just don't trust them.

And i think that WAY too many of us believe whatever we are told.
"Letting You" comes to mind.

allegro

10-19-2014, 08:06 PM

Because the truth isn't as much fun as conspiracy.

At the time of 9/11, Iraq had NOTHING to do with it. Zero. That didn't come up until WAY later. You know what DID, though? SAUDI ARABIA. Guess where Bin Laden is from? But guess where we didn't attack?

Because we're in bed with Saudi Arabia. And Saudi Arabia = Mecca.

9/11 made us look REALLY fucking vulnerable and REALLY fucking stupid. The other buildings fell down because TWO BUILDINGS just got hit by two jumbo jets completely loaded with jet fuel. That had NEVER happened before. And lots of the American public still can't wrap their heads around that. It's really easy to go back and use magic photo editing to invent conspiracies. But it's just as easy to show the truth with cameras held by real people to show how all those buildings were damaged. "Collapse" doesn't necessarily mean the outside and complete, ala the North and South towers. It can, however, in a construction sense, mean that the interior was beginning to show signs of collapse and had to be condemned for public safety and be pegged for demolition. Which is what happened. It was, in a sense, like an earthquake had happened. It affected architectural integrity.

The one thing that the Bush administration was very successful at, something you're demonstrating right now, was using 9/11 to generate fear.

"The people don't want war, but they can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and for exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country." -- Hermann Göring

But while we're looking at one hand (Iraq) we're forgetting to look at the dangerous hand (Saudi Arabia). Get it? Saddam Hussein as a target was smoke and mirrors, a pawn so the American people wouldn't demand that we go after Saudi Arabia, which of course we can't do or we'd have World War III that we'd never win. But 9/11 was a big fuckup that we missed. It was NOT Pearl Harbor.

edit: By the way, they did find body parts. Lots and lots of body parts. Google it and you can find photos, even. Oh, and about that passport (http://911blogger.com/news/2011-11-14/fbi-agent-dan-coleman-explains-how-passport-911-hijacker-satam-al-suqami-was-found).

marodi

10-19-2014, 08:09 PM

And weren't the non existent weapons of mass destruction the main reason to invade Iraq?

allegro

10-19-2014, 08:20 PM

And weren't the non existent weapons of mass destruction the main reason to invade Iraq?
Smoke and mirrors, again, so we wouldn't look at Saudi Arabia. Americans are bloodthirsty people. Eye for an eye. Full of anger for those two buildings full of murdered people, so we wanted vengeance. The Bush administration knew this. The Bush administration was getting pressure to "do something." The next thing, they knew, would be questioning the STUPIDITY of the FBI and CIA. They needed a diversion, a scapegoat. They knew that they couldn't go after Saudi Arabia for financing Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda and all of the terrorists on board those planes, not without starting WWIII (and ruining its financial / oil relationship with the Saudis). Instead, this whole "WMD" thing was invented. Of course, Saddam denied it, and he was right; he didn't have any. But, now Americans could have their vengeance. They thought this would be another quick-and-dirty Desert Storm, a show of American planes, power, in and out, quick and dirty, the Iraqi people would rejoice and thank us for their liberation. Of course, that never happened. LOL.

Edit: here, read this:

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/twenty-eight-pages

elevenism

10-22-2014, 04:59 PM

So @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) , are you saying that we decided to invade Iraq because we couldn't invade SA and Egypt?
THAT would make a lot of sense to me.
I have always wondered why we really invaded iraq, when it posed very little threat to us.

So instead of 9/11 being the pretext for invading Iraq, we just tried to use Iraq as a scapegoat?

Ewwwww...i said we. Not we, the Bush administration ;)

edit: allegro , i can't find any images or information about body parts or suitcases at the shanksville site.
I still think that plane was shot down, and since Jinsai changed my mind about a small nuke vaporizing the plane, i'm kind of at a loss.
Rumsfeld slipped up and SAID 93 was shot down. The local newspaper (i don't feel like digging it up, too much shit to wade through , but i bet you remember,) had eyewitnesses claiming they saw another plane that day and heard a loud bang.

Where did the wings go? The engines? Maybe in the nearby woods?

And why were there three debris sights spanning eight miles if the plane crashed nose first into the ground?

And what about that red bandanna, and Ziad Jarrah's visa...that's the passport to which i was reffering.

Okay, my automatic spellcheck isn't working for some reason so now everyone knows that i can't spell.

But at any rate, i REALLY think 93 was shot down.

allegro

10-22-2014, 05:23 PM

edit: allegro , i can't find any images or information about body parts or suitcases at the shanksville site.
I still think that plane was shot down, and since Jinsai changed my mind about a small nuke vaporizing the plane, i'm kind of at a loss.
Rumsfeld slipped up and SAID 93 was shot down. The local newspaper (i don't feel like digging it up, too much shit to wade through , but i bet you remember,) had eyewitnesses claiming they saw another plane that day and heard a loud bang. Where did the wings go? The engines? Maybe in the nearby woods?
1. When a plane is fully-loaded with fuel and it is deliberately crashed into the ground, the debris isn't like normal airplane crash debris. See also the PM link below.
2. If it was shot down, that would have shown up on radar and seen by air traffic controllers. That didn't happen.

The F-16s had been quickly scrambled (we know this because my husband was actually working those F-16s on radar), but what people didn't realize at the time was that none of them were armed (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/f-16-pilot-was-ready-to-give-her-life-on-sept-11/2011/09/06/gIQAMpcODK_story.html). yeah, that's how unprepared we were. The only option they had was kamikaze mission.

Any missiles launched from the ground would have been seen on radar by lots and lots of air traffic controllers.

Popular Mechanics Debunks Flight 93 Myths (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/debunking-911-myths-flight-93).

Sutekh

10-22-2014, 05:27 PM

I REALly don't want you guys to think i'm a conspiracy nut who believes that reptilian aliens run the world or any of that shit.
I'm just very, VERY skeptical of what we are told by the gvmt.

I hear you but 9/11 isn't just a narrative supplied by the Government, it ties together multiple strands of history - Bin Laden, Zawahiri and Khalid Sheik Mohammed's entire lives were building up to it. The US support for Israel, the bases in Saudi Arabia, the attacks in the 90s carried out by OBL, the "Jihad against Jews and Crusaders" press release in the mid to late 90s etc

Allegro is also bang on in that the US intelligence services were extremely incompetent, a total lack of interdepartmental cooperation and the fact that nobody took Alec station or John O'Neill seriously.

At the time the US was in the wake of stuff like the OKC bombing and Columbine, the emphasis seemed to be on domestic threats and terrorism, Europe also tolerated a lot of radical Islamist activity in a way they don't now - in Germany pre 9/11, it was actually fairly easy to prepare to fight abroad as long as you didn't target Germany itself (and where did a few of the 9/11 hijackers first network? Hamburg), British Muslims went to fight in Bosnia and didn't face prosecution when they returned and so on.

Nobody was really taking the threat that seriously, even as OBL escalated with his bombings of the USS Cole and the Kenyan embassy

It all ties up multiple strands. On a more random, chin stroking note, if the USG wanted to drum up support for a war in the Middle-East, it's curious how they didn't drum up any kind of panic or anti muslim sentiment before 9/11 (I remember at the time the attack happened, it was so much more shocking and terrifying when we didn't know who had done it or why - I remember people being genuinely baffled, whereas today whenever something happens it's assumed straight away it was Islamists).

Clinton actually wanted to go in after OBL and Taliban during his reign, but IIRC was blocked from doing so (and then a couple years later the Taliban drop in to have talks regarding a pipeline - plenty of actual dodginess behind the scenes).

And at the end of the day, why didn't Bin Laden ever disown the attacks? Yep it's a tremendous thing to take credit for, but even more powerful would be to expose the USG as murderers and liars of their own people on such an unbelievable scale. But he never did

elevenism

10-22-2014, 05:38 PM

The F-16s had been quickly scrambled (we know this because my husband was actually working those F-16s on radar), but what people didn't realize at the time was that none of them were armed (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/f-16-pilot-was-ready-to-give-her-life-on-sept-11/2011/09/06/gIQAMpcODK_story.html). yeah, that's how unprepared we were.

A. JESUS.

B. i'm not playing anymore, conspiracy theories are definitely more fun

allegro

10-22-2014, 05:43 PM

These conspiracy theories surrounding 9-11 are a terrible disservice to the victims, to the victims' families, to everybody who worked those skies to bring planes down safely that day (which, by the way, had never happened before in the history of the United States), to the scores of rescue workers who were injured, lost their lives, later died of cancer, etc. It's just BULLSHIT. Look, FUCKING EVIL TERRORISTS DID THIS SHIT. Plain and simple. They MURDERED thousands of innocent people. And to suggest otherwise just gets these murdering fuckers off the hook and shifts the blame. Stupid fuckers like Alex Jones perpetuate this shit for one reason: self-promotion to sell advertising to get money.

And, Sutekh, spot on.

Sutekh

10-22-2014, 05:47 PM

lol, funny how you see 9/11 was a lie type tshirts but not "OSAMA IS INNOCENT"

probably wouldn't go down too well

elevenism

10-22-2014, 06:28 PM

I have a "whatever i do, blame it on Al Queda" shirt, that was funny because bush seemed to blame everything that went wrong in the us on al queda at the time.

I got some weird looks for it though. I don't think many people got it.

as far as the 9/11 thing, i doubt i'll ever believe that we have the full story, but that being said, i've never seen things like those photos @Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) posted because 99.999 percent of things i find about 9/11 on the internet are conspiracy ideas.
I hate to keep this going but, many 9/11 survivors and family members (http://patriotsquestion911.com/survivors.html) have questions about the accuracy of what we've been told.
I'm really done now, for real.

If we are going to have a conspiracy theory thread, then maybe we should talk about something less sensitive?

How about JFK?
I spent most of my life in dallas, have been to the 6th floor and dealy plaza several times (hell, i tagged ELEVENO on the fence there,) and interviewed an eyewitness visible in the Zapruder sequence for the college newspaper.
I also went to the conspiracy museum when it existed.

Also, like many of you, i've seen about 100 docs on the subject. What do you guys think?
I think that reptilian aliens from Nibiru...just kidding.

I think that Oswald WAS the lone gunman but that he had way more ties to the USSR than we were lead to believe, and that, perhaps, it was an act of war.
And i think that this was downplayed because LBJ and co DIDN'T want WW3.
Remember , WW1 was started with an assasination.

allegro

10-22-2014, 07:11 PM

many 9/11 survivors and family members have questions about the accuracy of what we've been told.
Did you read the link I provided up there in Post #45? http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/twenty-eight-pages

The "use of explosives" is a total crock of shit. I've seen some amazing interviews and documentation from renowned architects and engineers, including the guy who designed the WTC, showing the design and schematics from those towers (I was at those towers shortly before they opened, then in them several times after they opened, ate lunch at the top a few times) and the fact that the buildings stood for as long as they did after jumbo jets fully loaded with jet fuel exploded in them is an architectural marvel, which saved literally thousands of lives. The intense heat from the burning jet fuel eventually melted the steel core on the floor where the jet crashed, which compromised the outer steel shell; the design of the towers was based on a "tube" effect that's kind of like a snake with supports slung through the middle; the trusses and supports melted and the concrete floors simply pancaked all the way down. These idiots online showing slo-mo collapse video and bleating about "dust cloud explosions not coming out from every floor" are discounting things like the very structure of the building, itself, the tight outer structure, the lack of windows (office residents constantly bitched about this for years), etc. And they also discount how many people survived and got out of those buildings. On any average morning at 9 a.m., over FIFTY THOUSAND PEOPLE worked in those two buildings, and the morning of September 11th was no exception.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY7BCXew0UI

re JFK, I've been obsessed since I was a kid in the 60s (yeah, I was really little when Kennedy was shot, younger than John-John, watched JFK's funeral on TV, remember grandma crying). (Oh shut up, I'm the same age as Henry Rollins.) My opinion, based on tons of reading, tons of documentaries, tons of research: Oswald was the lone gunman, and Russia had nothing to do with it. Oswald was a TOTAL reject; even Russia didn't want him. He was a total failure (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/11/why-lee-harvey-oswald-fled-to-the-soviet-union/281662/).

elevenism, dude, we have to teach you how to do better online research :-)

elevenism

10-22-2014, 08:35 PM

@elevenism (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2475), dude, we have to teach you how to do better online research :-)

sometimes i don't wanna. :p

so allegro , you think that Oswald acted completely alone?

The eyewitness i met told me that he was CERTAIN that there was only one gunman.
I don't question that.
I just wonder if someone put him up to it.

He was a failure, yes, but a decent shot and a russian sympathizer who was pro cuba.
Don't you think it's possible that russia tried to use him?

allegro

10-22-2014, 08:52 PM

sometimes i don't wanna. :p

so allegro , you think that Oswald acted completely alone?

The eyewitness i met told me that he was CERTAIN that there was only one gunman.
I don't question that.
I just wonder if someone put him up to it.

He was a failure, yes, but a decent shot and a russian sympathizer who was pro cuba.
Don't you think it's possible that russia tried to use him?
No. He wanted attention. He was a marksman in the U.S. military, but even the military didn't want him. The Soviets rejected his request for citizenship and shipped him off from Moscow to Minsk, the fucking Ukraine, the most boring place on the planet, to get rid of him. Then, he was being monitored by the KGB all the time. He wasn't a Russian sympathizer, he was a Marxist and an anti-capitalist.

8 things you may not know about Lee Harvey Oswald (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/biographies/oswald/8-things-you-may-not-know-about-lee-harvey-oswald/)

elevenism

10-23-2014, 08:09 PM

No. He wanted attention. He was a marksman in the U.S. military, but even the military didn't want him. The Soviets rejected his request for citizenship and shipped him off from Moscow to Minsk, the fucking Ukraine, the most boring place on the planet, to get rid of him. Then, he was being monitored by the KGB all the time. He wasn't a Russian sympathizer, he was a Marxist and an anti-capitalist.

8 things you may not know about Lee Harvey Oswald (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/biographies/oswald/8-things-you-may-not-know-about-lee-harvey-oswald/)

I meant Russian sympathizer as a synonym for marxism and socialism...that he symathized with their ideology.
I watched a really interesting episode of frontline the other day entitled Who Was LHO...i bet you've seen it, but if you haven't, you should watch it.

in that list you linked, the "mixed feelings" about Kennedy has always been the most interesting.
Why would a leftist kill a leftist leader?
But his feelings about Cuba could have fueled that fire.

slave2thewage

10-24-2014, 07:06 AM

Why would a leftist kill a leftist leader?

THE KENNEDY CURSE!

(insert spooky music here)

Fixer808

11-27-2014, 05:05 PM

Yahoo "News" "reports" new horseshit about a woman who said she worked for NASA and saw images of "...two men in space suits – not the bulky suits we normally used, but they looked protective. They came over the horizon walking to the Viking Explorer."

Read this and other nonsensical claims here (https://ca.news.yahoo.com/nasa-worker-claims-there-was-a-secret-manned-mission-to-mars-in-1979-123031256.html).

elevenism

06-20-2015, 10:21 PM

i have questions as to why our military needs to dress up like civilians and practice infiltrating small town america, including the town where half of my family lives.

but i guess i should just go on pretending it isn't happening. it's PROBABLY fucking safer that way.

Archive_Reports

07-24-2015, 04:10 PM

This maybe could be a conspiracy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elisa_Lam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM

Just saw this today and it has creeped me right the fuck out.

elevenism

07-31-2015, 12:14 PM

This maybe could be a conspiracy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elisa_Lam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM

Just saw this today and it has creeped me right the fuck out.

Dude. I saw that thing awhile back, last year.
It is absolutely, straight up, the most terrifying thing i've ever seen.

I became obsessed with it, studying every angle of it. It even invaded my dreams.

It was terrible. I'm warning you, don't spend too much time looking at it. It will get under your skin,

i have no idea what happened.

But the bottom line is that there is something DEAD WRONG going on here... it terrifies me.

elevenism

07-31-2015, 12:25 PM

Sorry for the double post, but is anyone here AWAKE? If you are, you know what i mean.
People are conditioned to call us "kooky conspiracy theorists" if we question ANYTHING the government does.
I've been accused of being an alarmist. Well, fuck. There is highly alarming shit going on.
We have extraction drills going on in florida.
We have a MASSIVE MILITARY BUILDUP in the southwest. We are more or less OCCUPIED down here.
The NSA is recording ALL of are communications of ANY kind and storing them FOREVER. Google and facebook are WORKING WITH THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT to build profiles on every american.
All of this shit is FACT.
What the fuck is jade helm for?
What the fuck do they know?
It pisses me off that this thread is a joke. WAKE UP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DctmmjW5Ol4

THIS IS REALLY HAPPENING.

Sallos

07-31-2015, 12:36 PM

Dude. I saw that thing awhile back, last year.
It is absolutely, straight up, the most terrifying thing i've ever seen.

I became obsessed with it, studying every angle of it. It even invaded my dreams.

It was terrible. I'm warning you, don't spend too much time looking at it. It will get under your skin,

i have no idea what happened.

But the bottom line is that there is something DEAD WRONG going on here... it terrifies me.

Well after that build up....disapointed!

elevenism

07-31-2015, 08:39 PM

Well after that build up....disapointed!

What do you mean? do more than watch the video. read about the case.

Baphomette

08-01-2015, 12:49 AM

We have extraction drills going on in florida.
We have a MASSIVE MILITARY BUILDUP in the southwest. We are more or less OCCUPIED down here.
Oh noes! The Black Man is trying to kills ALL of us and teh constistooshun!!

Every site (Infowars) that "reports news" like the above is xenophobic (Alex Jones) at the core. You do realize this, right?

BRoswell

08-01-2015, 01:19 AM

Conspiracy theorists always sound like religious zealots to me. They both have their prophets and their sacred texts, and they both have trouble accepting evidence that contradicts their firmly held beliefs. People want to believe in conspiracy theories for the same reason people want to believe in a god: to feel special. They want to feel like they know something and see things that no one else sees. Oddly enough, you'll often find conspiracy theorists calling out religious types for being "sheep", which is pretty amusing considering how strongly and arrogantly they cling to their own beliefs. Also, much like religion, there's different factions of beliefs. In the world of conspiracies, nobody can seem to agree on anything. Seriously, go on YouTube right now and take a look at all the theories about what brought down the Twin Towers on 9/11. You've got everything from controlled demolition, to UFOs, to drones, to nuclear weapons, to the whole thing being an elaborate illusion projected into the minds of everyone watching. Conspiracy theorists are always begging people to take them seriously, but just like religious zealots, they tend to be tripped up by their own beliefs. That's not to say there HAVEN'T been conspiracies in the past, but the ratio of legit ones to the stuff that people talk about today is pretty insane.

elevenism

08-01-2015, 01:44 AM

Oh noes! The Black Man is trying to kills ALL of us and teh constistooshun!!

Every site (Infowars) that "reports news" like the above is xenophobic (Alex Jones) at the core. You do realize this, right?

i do realize that, and it's been bothering me a lot.
not only are they xenophobic, they are right wing gun nuts. And that sucks.
If you noticed, i posted something about it on facebook, something to the effect of "some of us who are AWAKE are LEFTISTS." remember?
when i started paying attention to this shit, we were afraid of the RIGHT. Remember, 9/11 happened under Dubya, and so did the patriot act.
But i've come to believe that it's not about left and right, it's US and THEM.
All of that aside, @Miss Baphomette (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=11) , you know what time it is. You've seen that Terms and Conditions movie.

And @BRoswell (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=219) , i completely agree with you about the ratio of legit "conspiracies" to the insane ones.
I look for the kernels of truth. I look for hard facts. And it's hard to find in a sea of nut jobs.

I don't even like calling them "conspiracies" or "conspiracy theories."

It's more like "Disturbing Facts."

Baphomette

08-01-2015, 02:05 AM

All of that aside, @Miss Baphomette (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=11) , you know what time it is. You've seen that Terms and Conditions movie.Oh, I totally agree about the NSA stuff. Still don't know how it's possible to ANALYZE all of that data but I do believe it's being collected.

ziltoid

08-01-2015, 02:52 AM

Oh, I totally agree about the NSA stuff. Still don't know how it's possible to ANALYZE all of that data but I do believe it's being collected.

Yeah to track your purchases to pander to your interest and spam you so you spend more money on crap. Its called tracking and sometimes its useful.

elevenism

08-01-2015, 04:07 AM

Oh, I totally agree about the NSA stuff. Still don't know how it's possible to ANALYZE all of that data but I do believe it's being collected.
yeah, i really don't think they have any idea what to DO with it yet.

My fear is what might happen when they DO figure it out. I can't remember if it was Terms and Conditions or another flick, but google has bragged that they can predict where a user will go out to eat dinner a month in advance.

They have the POTENTIAL to track our every move. We have already become a surveillance state.
But if they were able to analyze it, they would be able to prevent a lot of things that have happened recently.
@Miss Baphomette (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=11) ,you should check out the new season of America's Book of Secrets on netflix.''

edit: BTW BRoswell ... sometimes i think people post those outlandish theories just to get attention, to get views on their youtube channel.
Being an INTELLIGENT "truther" takes a lot of work. You have to dig through at least one metric fuckton of bullshit for each kernel of truth.
It's like, ok, is this piece of information CONFIRMED by anyone? Are there multiple eyewitnesses, making it at least a possibility? Was it reported in the news somewhere? Is it verifiable by anything other than some flimsy fringe website?
If not, then you keep digging. I...keep...digging. Till i...Feel...Something ;)

Also, sadly ziltoid 's views probably represent the majority of the country.
Go back to sleep America. We have everything under control.

That's the way it is. If you question the government or the official narrative of ANYTHING, you are branded as a "kooky conspiracy theorist."
And that's by design. I saw a news story the other day about how cool it is that google can now keep a record of EVERY WHERE YOU GO using your cell phone. And the newscaster is talking about it like it's all cool. You can turn it off though (yeah fucking right. you can make it so YOU can't see it.)
MY reaction to a story like that is palm meeting face. Also, have you noticed that facebook is automatically tagging people in photos right now, and they boast a 93 percent success rate?
Surely they haven't shared that database with the gvmt, right? Of course not! ;)

elevenism

08-01-2015, 04:39 AM

sorry for double post, but check THIS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpNIMSDwvOw

Everyone talks about 9/11, no one talks about this. The fucking SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT and the CITY insisted on a private investigation because they didn't believe the official narrative.

But it came out right before 9/11 and no one paid attention.

Similarly, there is so much about JFK, but the story of RFK's murder has way more holes in it, in my opinion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKtyfBicUjA

False flags happen.

No one cares about the Gulf of Tonkin incident because it was so long ago, but it should scare the shit out of every one of us. The reason we went to Vietnam was an ABSOLUTE FUCKING LIE.

Sallos

08-01-2015, 04:50 AM

What do you mean? do more than watch the video. read about the case.

i did...

10char

Sutekh

08-01-2015, 05:54 AM

Plane came down in england yesterday, everyone on board killed - members of bin ladens family

I'm sure people will have fun with that!

elevenism

08-01-2015, 05:55 AM

i did...

10char
hmmmm. too each his own.
but for some reason, that shit gave me the FEAR.
I don't even like talking about it. i can't put my finger on why. exactly. i have no theory as to what happened.
I think THAT'S what scares me about it. I can't figure out ANY possible way that she got in that cistern.
And the movements she makes with her hands and body are so fucking bizzare.
I wasted probably like 50 hours of my life researching that shit and i swear to god it started to drive me insane.

Ryan

08-01-2015, 10:03 AM

theimage13

08-01-2015, 10:08 AM

This maybe could be a conspiracy?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Elisa_Lam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TjVBpyTeZM

Just saw this today and it has creeped me right the fuck out.

Bipolar persona acting strangely? Yeah, that's a real mystery. I don't mean to diminish the tragic loss of a young life, but...really? It was either an episode, she was on drugs (that she either knowingly or unknowingly took), or both. Is it really that hard to believe that?

marodi

08-01-2015, 11:50 AM

Louie_Cypher

08-01-2015, 12:00 PM

this one ifun http://www.maydaymystery.org/mayday/texts/81-may1.html

Louie_Cypher

08-01-2015, 12:11 PM

hre's a youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0trzLODfNs

elevenism

08-01-2015, 01:27 PM

Bipolar persona acting strangely? Yeah, that's a real mystery. I don't mean to diminish the tragic loss of a young life, but...really? It was either an episode, she was on drugs (that she either knowingly or unknowingly took), or both. Is it really that hard to believe that?
no drugs in her system.
also, i'm extremely bipolar and i don't act THAT strangely.

But for me, the really creepy part is how in the fuck she got on the roof (which was protected by an alarm) and into the cistern (which was so hard to access that workers had to CUT it open.) It would have been hard for someone ELSE to drag her up that little ladder and put her in there.

Add to this the fact that serial killer Richard Ramirez lived on THAT FLOOR of the hotel, as did serial killer Roger Unterweger. (you should know that guy, Ryan . And nut up and watch the video. Watch it over and over and get obsessed with it and have nightmares about it and shit like i did:) )
And the Black Dahlia lived there too.
You can also throw in the disproportionate number of murders and suicides at the Cecil hotel over the years.

And finally, one more creepy coincidence. There was a TB outbreak a few blocks from the hotel about a week after they found her body. A TB test kit is called a LAM-ELISA.

So, theimage13 , you can't take away all the weirdness from this one so easily.

I don't think this is a conspiracy.
At the risk of being laughed at, this whole thing borders on the supernatural, or perhaps some awful evil as yet undiscovered natural synchronicity.

I will say this...i watch a lot of youtube countdowns, and my tastes lean toward the dark side.
If this story is on one of the countdowns (and it's on a LOT of them,) i turn it off.
This case really, really got hold of my mind, time, and imagination. For days, it was the only thing i talked about, and all i did was research it.
Then i had awful nightmares about it.

Like i said before, there is just something fucking WRONG with this.

There is, appropriately, a horror movie about this case called The Bringing. It's still in production i think.

We should totally go there and try to solve it and make a documentary about it.

Watch the video Ryan ....watch one with that creepy, sad music that people put in youtube videos about tragedy. ;)

Baphomette

08-01-2015, 09:09 PM

Bipolar persona acting strangely? Yeah, that's a real mystery.Yeah, that's not typical bipolar behavior. Schizophrenia possibly but it still doesn't explain how she got inside the water tank.

elevenism

08-01-2015, 11:15 PM

Yeah, that's not typical bipolar behavior. Schizophrenia possibly but it still doesn't explain how she got inside the water tank.

Bipolar disorder doesn't make it to where you can get through locked doors with alarms on them or get into shit that workers have to use tools to cut open to remove your dead body.
Bipolar disorder doesn't make a 5 ft or so tall woman of 100-120 lbs able to scale a sheer steel cylinder that is mounted on large concrete blocks and is eight feet tall, then open a heavy ass lid, then lower herself down into the tank and CLOSE the lid, a feat that would have been insanely difficult if not impossible according to the September issue of The Daily Maverick. I think ( i HOPE) @theimage13 (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=809) just watched the elevator video and doesn't know the story.
I am fairly offended, as someone who has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder for 30 years.

I would hate to think that if i died a mysterious and tragic death and no one had ANY fucking idea how i died, that people would say "Ha! Didn't you hear? He had BIPOLAR DISORDER! Mystery my ass!"

The whole bipolar issue REALLY pisses me off in this case.
The police couldn't solve the case, so they ruled it an accidental drowning (with bipolar disorder as a "significant factor.")
Obviously, they just needed SOMETHING to write down.
It doesn't make any sense at all to include a fucking MENTAL disorder as part of the PHYSICAL cause of death.
That's like a death certificate that says MURDER...Coprophagia (feces-eating disorder.) important to note.

Whatever happened, i don't think it was a fucking accidental drowning.

Ryan

08-01-2015, 11:33 PM

no drugs in her system.
also, i'm extremely bipolar and i don't act THAT strangely.

But for me, the really creepy part is how in the fuck she got on the roof (which was protected by an alarm) and into the cistern (which was so hard to access that workers had to CUT it open.) It would have been hard for someone ELSE to drag her up that little ladder and put her in there.

Add to this the fact that serial killer Richard Ramirez lived on THAT FLOOR of the hotel, as did serial killer Roger Unterweger. (you should know that guy, @Ryan (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=67) . And nut up and watch the video. Watch it over and over and get obsessed with it and have nightmares about it and shit like i did:) )
And the Black Dahlia lived there too.
You can also throw in the disproportionate number of murders and suicides at the Cecil hotel over the years.

And finally, one more creepy coincidence. There was a TB outbreak a few blocks from the hotel about a week after they found her body. A TB test kit is called a LAM-ELISA.

So, @theimage13 (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=809) , you can't take away all the weirdness from this one so easily.

I don't think this is a conspiracy.
At the risk of being laughed at, this whole thing borders on the supernatural, or perhaps some awful evil as yet undiscovered natural synchronicity.

I will say this...i watch a lot of youtube countdowns, and my tastes lean toward the dark side.
If this story is on one of the countdowns (and it's on a LOT of them,) i turn it off.
This case really, really got hold of my mind, time, and imagination. For days, it was the only thing i talked about, and all i did was research it.
Then i had awful nightmares about it.

Like i said before, there is just something fucking WRONG with this.

There is, appropriately, a horror movie about this case called The Bringing. It's still in production i think.

We should totally go there and try to solve it and make a documentary about it.

Watch the video @Ryan (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=67) ....watch one with that creepy, sad music that people put in youtube videos about tragedy. ;)

Ghosts/demons. The end.

elevenism

08-01-2015, 11:58 PM

Ghosts/demons. The end.
This is what i am afraid to say.
Did you watch the video?

Ryan

08-02-2015, 12:46 AM

This is what i am afraid to say.
Did you watch the video?

Yeah, what the hell is she doing with those hand motions at the 2 minute mark?

Baphomette

08-02-2015, 08:33 PM

EMOTIONAL disorderBipolar disorder is not an emotional disorder. It's a mental disorder. Very different.

elevenism

08-03-2015, 12:48 AM

Yeah, what the hell is she doing with those hand motions at the 2 minute mark?
being possessed?

Aladdinsanity

08-03-2015, 03:01 AM

Kojima troll campaign, duh.

elevenism

08-03-2015, 05:45 AM

fixed.
@Ryan (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=67) is this creepy ass shit haunting you like it did me?

i DO have a theory that doesn't involve the supernatural though. it's not very plausible but it's possible.

Ryan

08-03-2015, 08:13 AM

Jinsai

08-05-2015, 11:46 AM

that she was drugged and lured up to the roof by someone who knew the location of the cameras?

elevenism

08-06-2015, 01:17 PM

Ryan , all my theory is is a possibility of how she got up there. If you look at the photos of the roof, there is another part of the building that is higher than the water tanks.
Maybe there is a ladder going up to that part?
Jinsai , perhaps, and someone who knew how to get on the roof without the alarm going off.

Okay, maybe this. Someone who worked at the hotel conspired to kill her with an accomplice.
The accomplice is stealthily chasing her. She's trying to hide from him in the elevator.
Then she sees the hotel worker. Maybe all that weird shit she is doing is her trying to silently signal to the worker that she is being pursued.

Then the worker says "don't worry, come with me."

He takes her up on the roof, and if there is a ladder, to the higher part of the roof.
And then the other dude comes and they kill her.

But i don't know.
Absent an explanation, this is STILL the creepiest fucking thing that i've ever seen in my life.
I don't know why, either. It just gets under your skin.

Ryan, when you said ghosts/demons before...i don't think i believe in fallen angels or spirits of the dead.
BUT, i think the prospect of interdimensional beings is very probable.

And this is one of those rare situations where, for me, a supernatural explanation is actually possible.

Jinsai

08-06-2015, 02:47 PM

just because someone drugged her and lured her up to the roof doesn't mean they were intending to kill her. Her death could have been accidental, and then in a "oh shit what do I do with the body?!" moment, found a way to ditch the corpse in the tank.

Exocet

08-06-2015, 06:54 PM

Had never heard of Elisa Lam or seen that video before today...that is an extremely creepy video. And very bizarre..
Know its my head messing with me, but im making out all sorts of images in that elevator. Am i the only one who sees a face staring at her??? Obviously been tampered with.
She obviously knew someone really sick and dangerous. I think she lured. By someone who had been studying the hotel for a long time. Amazed the killer has covered it all up so well.
To say that hotel has an unfortunate history is an understatement. Its legendary for its gory history.
There was a Jack the Ripper copycat killer in London area where he did his killing too.
Whoever did this, executed it flawlessly, be interesting to find out how he/she got her in that water tank...
Fucking gross people drank that water too.

RocketScience

08-07-2015, 03:07 PM

Sorta semi-related to the Elisa Lam discussions.

http://bloody-disgusting.com/news/3356495/american-horror-story-hotel-based-elise-lams-bizarre-true-story/

allegro

08-07-2015, 05:03 PM

I don't see the elevator video as "creepy," at all. She is acting very child-like: putting her face nearly at the buttons like a 6-yr-old to push them, jumping back, standing in the corner smiling slyly like she just did something very naughty, seeing the elevator door isn't closing and then hopping back out; anybody who has observed children in elevators observes pretty much every.single.thing she does in and outside of this elevator. She seems to be in some kind of child-like mood or silly state, and none of it is creepy unless children creep you out.

And she's clearly outside the elevator pushing the "up" or "down" button making the door open and close, later.

The only weird thing is why the door stayed open that long when she's pushed that many buttons, except maybe she pushed the "door open" button as well as all those floor buttons. Dunno.

elevenism

08-08-2015, 05:37 PM

allegro

08-09-2015, 09:29 AM

allegro she looks terrified to me. and then her behavior is very strange (unless she is trying to signal someone.) And isn't behaving like a 6 year old odd for a grown woman with no drugs in her sysem? Ryan and Exocet i'm glad that this thing has gotten under someone ELSE'S skin.
She looks terrified because you have been influenced by all the online comments and you want her to look terrified. If you slow down the video, stop it, analyze it, she is smiling, she is acting giddy, childlike. The online reports I read said that after a body floats in water that long, decomposing, toxicology test are inconclusive. Also, she could be having some kind of psychotic break from an undiagnosed mental disorder.

Ryan

08-09-2015, 09:32 AM

A demon stalked and killed her. Case closed.

elevenism

08-10-2015, 03:38 PM

A demon stalked and killed her. Case closed.
lolololol

i wrote a long ass reply to this, but i was at a hotel and it was on a phone and the fucking internet ate my reply.

I don't doubt the possibility of something supernatural having happened in this case.

But i'm just curious. When you say demon, are you talking actual fallen angel here? Or some kind of interdimensional evil?

And here's the real question. Who wants to go out there and solve it with me?
It would be fucking great! We could make a documentary about it.

elevenism

08-30-2015, 01:55 AM

it's funny to laugh at "conspiracy theorists."

I mean, the CIA has never controlled the media! Not unless you count that one time that they ADMITTEDLY did it from the fifties to the 70s under operation mockingbird. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird) They only did it for like two or three decades. And i'm sure they stopped. Hell, they SAID they stopped!

Our government never planned false flag attacks against the united states that we know of, except for that one time when the Joint Chiefs of Staff all signed off on a plan to commit terror attacks domestically and blame them on Cuba (https://archive.org/details/OperationNorthwoods) so that we could provoke an illegal war. It was just that one time, right?

And of course we never went to war under false pretenses, except for that little viet nam thing that we jumped into over an incident that didn't really happen in the gulf of tonkin. (http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/CRASH/TWA/TONKIN.html) It's cool that it didn't really happen because that was like, a really long time ago. I mean, i guess that there's just that and the false testimony (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nayirah_(testimony)) that was used to justify the first gulf war.

The cia was only involved in making money off of illegal cocaine trade during the iran contra affair (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_cocaine_trafficking), luckily.

Bayer only knowingly sold that AIDS and hepatitis contaminated haemophelia drug (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contaminated_haemophilia_blood_products) world wide for a few years, and the fda just helped them cover it up for a little while. And that was so everyone could protect their bottom line, so that makes sense.

Thank god all of those things happened in the past and could never happen again, and there is only declassified evidence of a few thousand more conspiracy "theories" that are now known to be fact.

Because the only people who think conspiracy theories are true are nut jobs like David Icke. It's convenient that he claimed that he was jesus and thinks that reptilian aliens run the world. It's just people like him and right wing kooks like alex jones.

I mean, don't QUESTiON anything that the government does. You might be ridiculed!

allegro

08-31-2015, 01:03 PM

except for that little viet nam thing that we jumped into
Except the conflict between North and South Vietnam began in 1954, after the North Vietnamese defeated and threw out the French colonialists and took control of the country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indochina_War).

See timeline here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indochina_War#Timeline).

See U.S. Navy assistance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indochina_War#US_Navy_assistance_.281951.E2. 80.931954.29).

See U.S. Air Force assistance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indochina_War#US_Air_Force_assistance_.28195 2.E2.80.931954.29).

See CIA covert operations (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indochina_War#Central_Intelligence_Agency_co vert_operations_.281954.29).

See Operation Passage to Freedom (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indochina_War#Operation_Passage_to_Freedom_. 281954.29).

See Saigon Military Mission under Eisenhower in 1954 and 1955 (https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/pentagon/doc95.htm).

See timeline of U.S. Involvement in Vietnam (http://mahargpress.com/wounded/additional-material/timeline-of-vietnamconflict/).

Also, re Golf of Tonkin: There was a Reaction from Congress (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident#Reaction_from_Congress) that was not hidden from the public or Congress. Of course, the American public -- and the Congress it elected -- was demonstrating fear of communism and fear of China. This was during the Cold War, which created very serious fear at the time. It made post-9/11 look like Disneyland.

Also, consider that the Strategic Hamlet Program (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Hamlet_Program) was a complete failure, turning the South Vietnamese people against us and probably toward the communists, and that we pretty much had South Vietnam's first president killed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War#Ousting_and_assassination_of_Ng.C3.B4_ .C4.90.C3.ACnh_Di.E1.BB.87m), and the only way to try to "stop" the spread of communism in Vietnam was a full offensive.

People do question what the government does all the time; that's not a "conspiracy theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory)."

The Iran Contra Cocaine thing, for instance, was big news a long time ago (http://www.salon.com/2004/10/25/contra/) when you were watching Sesame Street so maybe you weren't old enough to remember so it all seems "conspiracy" to you but it was all headline news to the rest of us, especially all of us who hated Reagan and, believe me, that was most of the fucking country at the time (http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1986/1101861117_400.jpg).

We actually witnessed Watergate, Deep Throat, all that shit. We saw Nixon resign.

We wore t-shirts that said "Don't Trust Anyone Over 30" (Gee, THAT'S YOU.)

And this was all due to REALITY, not due to conspiracy "theory."

We have the Patriot Act and the NSA, the TSA with unlimited and unquestioned power, and this is all truth and reality, and they all violate the U.S. Constitution, openly and in front of U.S. Voters who continue to vote for the elected officials who support these policies, because we are living in very conservative times, dude.

Conspiracy my ass.

"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly and with unflagging attention. It must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over. Here, as so often in this world, persistence is the first and most important requirement for success." -- Adolph Hitler, "Mein Kampf"

elevenism

08-31-2015, 09:56 PM

Shit , @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) , i obviously don't consider those things "theories" either. And i could go on and on with examples of things that were ONCE theories and wound up national news.
The point is that if you bring half of these things up to most people, they won't believe you.
Maybe we are living in conservative times. I'm actually starting to sense the zeitgeist leaning to the left.
But most importantly, we are living in IGNORANT times. And i would assume that we always have been.

As more and more information becomes declassified or is leaked, these "theories" become fact (indiscriminate NSA data mining through nefarious means being a prime example.)
And what we find OUT about is obviously just the very tip of the proverbial iceberg.
Trying to connect the dots on the things we DON'T know about makes one a "conspiracy theorist" in the eyes of many, as does talking about the things that have already been proven.
Take, for example, the number of trilateral and cfr members who wound up in the reagan administration AFTER he promised to expose all of them if elected. What in the fuck happened there? I guess that's where the "theory" part comes in.
When youve got rockefeller talking about how we "just need the right major crisis to get people to accept the new world order," and saying that he's PROUD and GUILTY AS CHARGED regarding working against the interests of the american people to realize his vision for the world, it disturbs me a little.
Throw in a few things like those denver airport murals and the georgia guidestones, and you wind up with damned good reasons to fear what steps he and his ilk might take to achieve their goals.

You know as well as i do that this country is no longer a constitutional republic. It's a corporate oligarchy.
This is reality.
I'm not the one who came up with the term "conspiracy theory."https://2012patriot.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/politics.jpg

I know these things. You obviously know more.

But try explaining to everyone else that the government is owned by private banks and that JSOC and the CIA do WHATEVER THE FUCK THEY WANT. Mention operation mockingbird or MKULTRA.

They will tell you that you're an "alarmist" or "like alex jones."

And YOU will be called a conspiracy theorist.

At least that's how it works with people my age.

So when i talk about "conspiracy theory," i'm talking about the things i'm discussing here...not reptilian aliens. ;)

EDIT: and btw, what we need is an ACTUAL OUTSIDER in the white house who will bring this shit to a screeching halt.
I know that this will probably never happen in a country where greed is pretty much the defining virtue, but i can dream, can't i?
I don't give a shit if it comes from the left or the right.
I want the fucking constitutional republic we were guaranteed. I want groups like the cfr and the trilaterals and even bilderberg to be transparent. I want to know what in the fuck the cia knows. I want to see the fed abolished.

Basically i want that anti-secrecy speech JFK made to come true, damnit.

also i thought you'd like this one
http://i.imgur.com/YYBgZ6O.jpg

allegro

08-31-2015, 10:05 PM

Operation Mockingbird wasn't successful. Just because it EXISTED doesn't mean the government had even one iota of "control" over the media.

You want to see "control" over the media, look at countries like Iran or Saudi Arabia.

The U.S. Government has had a lot of hair-brained unsuccessful programs; it doesn't mean 90% of them had any chance of success.

The Government isn't "owned" by private banks and the CIA doesn't do whatever it wants, it always gets ratted out by some insider or by the FBI (which hates the CIA). The system, no matter how corrupt, has checks and balances because there are always whistle-blowers and/or there is always somebody / something even MORE corrupt or greedy.

The fact that our Government is corrupt isn't a conspiracy; it's the nature of a Republic. Because it's human nature. Just ask Julius Caesar.

And there are complete fucking nuts who insist that Kennedy was killed by the Mob*. <---- *CONSPIRACY THEORY

A "conspiracy theory" isn't something ACTUALLY EXISTS; it's something that doesn't exist but people insist exists and is allegedly being hidden.

Talking about it after it leaks isn't a conspiracy theory. Nobody knows about it or theorizes about it before it leaks, because nobody knows about highly classified information. It isn't until after it leaks that it becomes known.

Just because a bunch of your generation are uneducated morons doesn't mean that facts = "conspiracy." It just means they are morons.

If they think the eye on the dollar bill is a symbol of some kind of cult of our founding fathers: Yeah, that's a conspiracy theory.

If they think that Sept 11 was deliberate and our government had it done on purpose: conspiracy theory. Only uneducated morons think this shit.

Not just people "your age" but people my DAD'S age or our friends' age who think that the economy started tanking the minute we removed the gold standard, and that the only we way can protect ourselves from ruin is to sell everything and buy gold, and that China is trying to take over the U.S. by ruining us and devaluing the Yuan. It's the Chicken Little people.

I bring up all of what I mentioned in my above post and I guarantee you that all the educated people I know will believe me; because they know history. But uneducated people on Facebook? Maybe you know the wrong people, dude. Maybe you need to expand your friends. No offense. If most of the people you know have their respective heads in the sand about current events, maybe it's time to find new friends. But I guarantee you that I know lots of educated people your age who know a lot about history, politics, etc.

Re crisis and war, there was a time when war started out pretty bad, but it was believed that it ultimately brought people together in unity and improved the economy (https://www.tvfrance-intl.com/en/programmes/presentation/fiche/51783_il-nous-faudrait-une-bonne-guerre.html).

The rest of your post is somewhat disjointed so I can't really follow it.

elevenism

08-31-2015, 10:39 PM

The edit part is disjointed?

I was on a tangent about wanting change and wanting it to come from the white house.

Edit: and my point was that all of those things happened, the things that i listed in the first post.

They were once conspiracy theories. Then they were exposed as truth.

I don't think it's crazy to speculate on fucked up things that are going on CURRENTLY, that haven't been exposed. Those are conspiracy theories.

In other words, once upon a time the bayer haemophelia drug being tainted was a conspiracy theory.
Then it was exposed as fact.

Looking at strange things and wondering what the next declassified document or whistleblower's leak will reveal does not make one insane, or a moron.

That was my entire point.

allegro

08-31-2015, 11:00 PM

They were once conspiracy theories. Then they were exposed as truth.
No. That's not true.

The Gulf of Tonkin was exposed pretty much immediately. But people decided to go with the offensive, anyway, because they thought we had to "stop communism from spreading."

Nobody was sitting around going "wow, I wonder if the government is trying to control the media." People ALWAYS KNEW IT because there was always stupid evidence, there were whistle-blowers, and journalists were always saying "go fuck yourself" because of Freedom of the Press and the government CAN'T control the fucking media.

Iran Contra was TOTALLY SECRET and there was NO CONSPIRACY OR KNOWLEDGE until it was exposed. Hindsight is 20/20. You can't say it's a conspiracy, now, 30 years later, when it wasn't.

Etc. etc. etc.

You can't say that it was a conspiracy before it was knowledge just because we know it now and it used to be a secret.

secret - knowledge does not = conspiracy

In other words, once upon a time the bayer haemophelia drug being tainted was a conspiracy theory.
Prove it. We didn't have the Internet until 1994, and even then all that existed was shitty vanity sites and horrible search engines. How do you think these alleged "conspiracy theories" spread? Carrier pigeons?

Back then, nobody even knew how AIDS or HIV was transmitted. It's why blood wasn't screened for many years. Ryan White was kicked out of school (http://hab.hrsa.gov/abouthab/ryanwhite.html) because people thought HIV was transmitted by AIR. Trust me, I had a brother with AIDS; Even in 2002, nurses in hospitals would stand on the other side of the room. That's not conspiracy; that's stupidity.

Looking at strange things and wondering what the next declassified document or whistleblower's leak will reveal does not make one insane, or a moron.
No, but it does make you Chicken Little, to an extent. This isn't some new phenomenon. Our government (or any government) didn't suddenly become "bad" and full of "conspiracies." It's always been that way.

Another 60s T-Shirt: Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean everybody isn't really out to get you.

Here's some Plato for you (http://faculty.frostburg.edu/phil/forum/PlatoRep.htm).

elevenism

08-31-2015, 11:40 PM

And as far as the bayer drug, check out a doc called Bad Blood.
It wasn't so much AIDS that was suspected, it was the hepatitis.

Corruption, cover ups, secret knowledge, call it what you will. Again, i didn't come up with the term "conspiracy theory."
It's interesting what you can find, however, if you look at web pages that talk about "conspiracy theories that turned out to be true," that sort of thing.

Of course it's not a new phenomenon, but it's one that i've only become aware of in the past ten years or so. I honestly never dreamed that certain types of corruption were possible in the almighty US of A. I had the wool pulled over my eyes pretty damned tightly.

Evidence of secrecy and corruption, past, present, and speculating on the future of these sorts of things interests me.

Call me chicken little i guess. ;)

and chicken little must lay down because his back hurts.

This could go on forever. I know from experience that it's impossible for me to WIN a debate with you. I just do it because i usually learn interesting shit that i didn't know before :)

I can't do it as MUCH until these compression fractures heal.

My bottom line here is that people assume that ALL conspiracies/cover ups are/were false. And that is not the case.

allegro

08-31-2015, 11:49 PM

Bayer wrote a bunch of checks (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bayer-admits-it-paid-millions-in-hiv-infection-cases-just-not-in-english/) in that class action case in Europe. That's corporate corruption, however, not government corruption. And sometimes it's not corruption so much as stupid oversight, or one group of management not telling another group of management (see also GM Ignition Switches and Airbag Recalls (http://news.yahoo.com/gm-incompetence-negligence-led-delayed-recall-132545696--finance.html)).

Of course you didn't come up with the term "conspiracy theory" -- I provided you with a definition link (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory) 4 posts ago.

History
The Oxford English Dictionary defines conspiracy theory as "the theory that an event or phenomenon occurs as a result of a conspiracy between interested parties; spec. a belief that some covert but influential agency (typically political in motivation and oppressive in intent) is responsible for an unexplained event", and cites a 1909 article in The American Historical Review as the earliest usage example.

But be careful about your sources when you look at web pages, etc. I know this as I do research for a living. Don't believe everything you see on the Internet. And, be careful about hyperbole and propaganda disguised as entertainment (film, etc.).

I honestly never dreamed that certain types of corruption were possible in the almighty US of A. I had the wool pulled over my eyes pretty damned tightly.
So you didn't know anything about J Edgar Hoover (https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/five-myths-about-j-edgar-hoover/2011/11/07/gIQASLlo5M_story.html)??

Baphomette

08-31-2015, 11:52 PM

We didn't have the Internet until 1994, and even then all that existed was shitty vanity sites and horrible search engines. How do you think these alleged "conspiracy theories" spread? Carrier pigeons?Additionally, the origins of some "conspiracy theories" are rooted in disinformation. I've seen some stuff floating around that I know for a fact came from Spy.

elevenism

09-01-2015, 02:47 AM

Additionally, the origins of some "conspiracy theories" are rooted in disinformation. I've seen some stuff floating around that I know for a fact came from Spy.

hell, 95% of them are rooted in disinformation.
That's half the fun...looking for a needle in a stack of needles.

Speaking of disinformation and hyperbole, i will admit that i do have a guilty pleasure: the "documentaries" about how satan runs the music industry and the evidence is EVERYWHERE, from Zeppelin to the latest justin beiber video.
Now i don't even believe in satan. But these films can be pretty damned entertaining.
Just suspend your disbelief for two hours and enjoy. They work pretty much like found-footage horror movies.

See, to become a pop star, you have to sign an ACTUAL CONTRACT with Lucifer himself.
You may also have to commit a ritual blood sacrifice of one of your friends or family members.
Gay sex is also part of it. All of the rappers are participating in homosexual ritual satanic activity.
Jay Z is in on it, as are lady gaga, little wayne, miley cyrus, eminem-pretty much every pop star on the face of the earth LITERALLY works for Satan, the Morning Star. :p
There's "evidence" in all of their videos, music, and personal lives.
It's so much fun to watch.
It's like one of those old Bob Larson books that i read for fun when i was a kid, but it's in a documentary format and it's up to date.

And then there's the whole "world is run by reptilian aliens" that a DISTURBING number of people believe in. I haven't checked much of that out, but i would imagine that it's top notch entertainment!

elevenism

11-02-2015, 04:14 PM

someone found me on this forum and pm'd me, claiming to have secret information about Stratford of Texas, the company my grandfather was involved in (the grandfather who i think was murdered.)
she had a LOT of details that are not exactly readily available, and contrary to the official storyline, one of them being that the company was PURPOSELY run into the ground.
She also said that the SoT partners were not above murder.

I feel like i'm in a fucking Grisham book or something.

The last line of the message was "let me know if you want to know the truth."

creepy, right? she claims to have found my posts about SoT here by doing a google search, but they don;t come up when I do a google search....

i've been researching this for years and i feel like i'm dangerously close to figuring it out...

Archive_Reports

11-02-2015, 04:27 PM

Or someone has read your ramblings and is screwing with you.

Khrz

11-02-2015, 04:31 PM

Both possibilities sound equally un/likely, honestly...

allegro

11-02-2015, 05:45 PM

elevenism

11-02-2015, 06:02 PM

ahhh ha @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) .

Ok, This lady is weaving a fairly interesting tale of conspiracy about her ex husband or lover, Jerry Barber.
@Archive_Reports (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1721) , i don't think that its just someone who is screwing with me.
She has way too much information.
Also, if she is the person that she is CLAIMING to be, then my mother used to babysit her kids.

I'm pretty sure this is real, y'all

btw allegro, i wanted to talk to you about this privately, but i can't message you :(

elevenism

11-02-2015, 06:06 PM

allegro unlock your pm's and i will send you the messages, if you want to

allegro

11-02-2015, 06:07 PM

allegro

11-02-2015, 06:09 PM

allegro unlock your pm's and i will send you the messages, if you want to

Nah, thanks

My brain is fried from doing this shit all day. This afternoon, my Boss actually called me "Sherlock Holmes." Wtf.

elevenism

11-02-2015, 06:10 PM

Nah, thanks
:(
..........

elevenism

11-02-2015, 06:15 PM

Nah, thanks

My brain is fried from doing this shit all day. This afternoon, my Boss actually called me "Sherlock Holmes." Wtf.

why do you think i want you to look into this?

allegro

11-02-2015, 06:19 PM

why do you think i want you to look into this?

No. Now I'm watching "Love It or List It." You know, important stuff.

ldopa

11-09-2015, 01:23 PM

It's monsanto. All of it.

*logging out now*

tony.parente

05-24-2016, 03:27 AM

Deepvoid

05-24-2016, 06:17 AM

Ryan

05-24-2016, 07:56 AM

henryeatscereal

05-24-2016, 08:33 AM

The Berenstein Bears are evil?
I KNEW IT!

tony.parente

05-24-2016, 08:54 AM

The Berenstein Bears are evil?
I KNEW IT!

It's Berenstain.

I KNOW

henryeatscereal

05-24-2016, 02:17 PM

It's Berenstain.

I KNOW
Useless fact: My Grandmother's maiden name was "Berenstain", that explains everything...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7Eqcu8F_tSY/VvHHoV-zy2I/AAAAAAAAdcc/6pQzJypDY-k/w426-h291/16%2B-%2B1

nihilimo

06-27-2016, 01:17 PM

Here’s my crazy conspiracy theory:

There was a being on Earth who stood as God’s intercessionary, who truly was a divine being, and ended up being murdered for it. But the truth of the matter is different from what the churches portray. The original murder was actually a ritual, carried out in the name of evil “magic” by one or two culturally powerful individuals or a small group attempting to gain the divine power of the intercessionary of god. This divine being had clearly demonstrated abilities which they desired, and was also beginning to inspire change contrary to their goals, so they took action. The plan was ultimately to steal this being’s identity, to take its place in the eyes of the public.
They crucified it in secret, and then waited. Years passed, and then one of the conspirators stepped forward to make the claim that they were this divine intercessionary…that they were the only way into Heaven. The conspiracy started the process of building the Church using the truth of the original being in their name and function with the intent to deceive the public into taking their words as being of divine origin or revelation. They then published their words, and told everybody it was holy.

The one at the head of the conspiracy? The original ritual murderer? The one whose idea it was? Jesus Hardcore Christ.

The victim? The one nailed to a tree? The one who is still laughing? A 12 year old kid.

Jinsai

07-03-2016, 09:20 PM

http://sev.h-cdn.co/assets/15/32/980x490/landscape-1438786521-berenstain-bears.jpg
Far and away my favorite conspiracy theory, though it's more of an alternate universe theory.

Wanna play along?

Who are these guys?

Ok... this is totally fucking with my head. I was sure it was spelled Berenstein. I was not that old when I was reading those books... so I remember sounding out the weird-sounding name in my head as "BerenSTEEN," and I don't know how I would have gotten that pronunciation from the word "stain."

And the more I'm looking at that picture, the more mama and papa Berenstein look eerily like Bill and Hillary Clinton. AAAAAAAAHHHH

tony.parente

07-03-2016, 09:55 PM

Ok... this is totally fucking with my head. I was sure it was spelled Berenstein. I was not that old when I was reading those books... so I remember sounding out the weird-sounding name in my head as "BerenSTEEN," and I don't know how I would have gotten that pronunciation from the word "stain."

And the more I'm looking at that picture, the more mama and papa Berenstein look eerily like Bill and Hillary Clinton. AAAAAAAAHHHH
Every time I think about it I get closer and closer to just stroking the fuck out. I can't take it.

Space Suicide

07-03-2016, 10:15 PM

The best one I heard lately was from the king himself, Alex Jones.

He thinks that Michele Obama is actually a man and that she had Joan Rivers killed because she knew her/his secret.
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/alex-jones-michelle-obama-man-who-murdered-joan-rivers-cover-it

I laughed reading that when he first announced it. Alex Jones is a fucking tool. Any clown that believes his bullshit are as idiotic as he is.

elevenism

07-04-2016, 06:23 PM

The whole Berenstein/Berstain thing is like the main mandela effect issue that holds water for me.

Archive_Reports

09-01-2016, 02:03 PM

Regarding today's SpaceX explosion:

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--lYY1F9uU--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_320/ccvga6yxzaxujs2ai4j5.gif

tony.parente

09-01-2016, 05:19 PM

Regarding today's SpaceX explosion:

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--lYY1F9uU--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_320/ccvga6yxzaxujs2ai4j5.gif

So...what's the conspiracy here?

Archive_Reports

09-01-2016, 05:21 PM

So...what's the conspiracy here?

Aliens? Russians? Colin Kaepernick? I have no idea.

allegate

09-01-2016, 06:20 PM

https://media3.giphy.com/media/3oEjI789af0AVurF60/200_s.gif

But it was the birds, more likely.

theimage13

09-01-2016, 08:24 PM

allegro

09-01-2016, 08:40 PM

Aliens? Russians? Colin Kaepernick? I have no idea.
A missile sent by people who HATE FACEBOOK.

elevenism

09-01-2016, 09:07 PM

Literally just sharing because it's a list of conspiracies (https://www.buzzfeed.com/ayeshamittal/jet-fuel-cant-melt-steel-beams-right?utm_term=.arwypeM58#.pjEwdz8EQ); not because I believe any of them.

I will say that the phantom time theory is actually intriguing, but given that I'm far from a history expert, I'm just going to keep on believing that it's currently 2016.
number 9 on that list, the denver airport thing, good GOD those murals were fucking horrifying. I really for the life of me don't understand why in the holy hell anyone would commission paintings like that to be put up ANYWHERE. Then there's the commemorative "New World Airport Commission" stone. I don't know what in the fuck that was all about, but it gave me the creeps. It gave a bunch of other people the creeps too, because, if i'm not mistaken, the murals have now been painted over.

theimage13

09-02-2016, 07:50 AM

number 9 on that list, the denver airport thing, good GOD those murals were fucking horrifying. I really for the life of me don't understand why in the holy hell anyone would commission paintings like that to be put up ANYWHERE. Then there's the commemorative "New World Airport Commission" stone. I don't know what in the fuck that was all about, but it gave me the creeps. It gave a bunch of other people the creeps too, because, if i'm not mistaken, the murals have now been painted over.

For as many times as I've flown in and out of that airport in the last three years, I never even noticed the murals. The only thing I ever really noticed was the crazy psycho death horse statue by the entrance.

henryeatscereal

09-02-2016, 10:01 AM

That Denver Airport shit is scary, need to visit, lol...

"...He signs his name with a capital "G" "

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-04/11/19/enhanced/webdr09/enhanced-15660-1460417988-1.png?no-auto

allegro

09-02-2016, 11:34 AM

number 9 on that list, the denver airport thing, good GOD those murals were fucking horrifying. I really for the life of me don't understand why in the holy hell anyone would commission paintings like that to be put up ANYWHERE.

There are these murals and an explanation which makes sense (http://images.flydenver.com/Art-at-DIA/Permanent-Works/In-Peace-and-Harmony-with-Nature/).

That particularly scary mural is a part of this collection which is called "Children of the World Dream of Peace (http://images.flydenver.com/Art-at-DIA/Permanent-Works/Children-of-the-World-Dream-Peac/)" and it looks like pretty typical Mexican muralism (https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/art-1010/art-between-wars/latin-american-modernism1/a/mexican-muralism-los-tres-grandes-david-alfaro-siqueiros-diego-rivera-and-jos-clemente-orozco).

SEE THIS VIDEO (https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/art-1010/art-between-wars/latin-american-modernism1/v/diego-rivera-man-universe).

Here is an explanation (http://www.publicartarchive.org/work/children-world-dream-peace):

"The Children of the World Dream of Peace" is a powerful mural expressing the artist's desire to abolish violence in society. One part of the piece exhibits the tragedy and devastation of war and its impact on humanity. The mural then moves to images of smiling children dressed in folk costumes from around the world celebrating peace prevailing over war.

Here is an interview with the Chicago artist, Leo Tanguma (http://www.zingmagazine.com/drupal/node/2039).

elevenism

09-02-2016, 02:21 PM

There are these murals and an explanation which makes sense (http://images.flydenver.com/Art-at-DIA/Permanent-Works/In-Peace-and-Harmony-with-Nature/).

i've heard the interview with Tanguma.

But yes, thanks, for fuck's sake, anything that makes that shit less disturbing ;) . That's the type of shit that keeps me up at night allegro .

Because, you know, it KINDA SORTA REALLY looks like a narrative about like population control and like "arkism" and "in with the new out with the old" and dissolving world borders. I mean i'm sure you can see that shit.

Throw in the fact that denver didn't need an airport, that a shitload of buildings were built and then buried or some shit, the aforementioned "death horse" (which for the record i just associate with the broncos,) the nonexistent New World Airport Commission, and the careful nondisclosure w/r/t just who footed the like $1.75 BILLION or whatever it cost, and you wind up with just kind of a slightly creepy set of coincidences if nothing else.

I don't like that shit. But i deeply appreciate your attempts to diffuse it for me, per usual.

For some reason the Denver Airport strangeness reminds me of the mysterious Georgia Guidestones (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones) , another bizarre structure built by unknown contributors, ALSO with a time capsule underneath, and that shit is a little less subtle about what it means to say. The commandments over which i lose sleep are the first 3.

Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
Guide reproduction wisely — improving fitness and diversity.
Unite humanity with a living new language.

Both things deal with the biggest fear in my little conspiracy theory dabbling brain: population control. And i'm not talking about rubbers in africa. Powerful people like Rupert Murdoch and Current Dickheded Rockafeller continue to advocate for shit like literally decimating the population now. Prince Harry said he'd like to be reincarnated as a fucking VIRUS to wipe out most of the world's population.
Now surely, SURELY, these fuckers wouldn't ATTEMPT such a thing. It's Year Zero territory.
But the fact that they sit around talking about it and someone's erecting goddamn pseudo religious monuments about it makes my skin crawl :P

Archive_Reports

09-02-2016, 02:27 PM

Both things deal with the biggest fear in my little conspiracy theory dabbling brain: population control. And i'm not talking about rubbers in africa. Powerful people like Rupert Murdoch and Current Dickheded Rockafeller continue to advocate for shit like literally decimating the population now. Prince Harry said he'd like to be reincarnated as a fucking VIRUS to wipe out most of the world's population.
Now surely, SURELY, these fuckers wouldn't ATTEMPT such a thing. It's Year Zero territory.
But the fact that they sit around talking about it and someone's erecting goddamn pseudo religious monuments about it makes my skin crawl :P

Citation needed.

elevenism

09-02-2016, 02:47 PM

Citation needed.
CNN Founder Ted Turner (http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/china_total_dehumanization_report.htm): “A total world population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal.”

Journal of Medical Ethics- “[W]hen circumstances occur after birth such that they would have justified abortion, what we call after-birth abortion should be permissible. … [W]e propose to call this practice ‘after-birth abortion’, rather than ‘infanticide,’ to emphasize that the moral status of the individual killed is comparable with that of a fetus … rather than to that of a child. Therefore, we claim that killing a newborn could be ethically permissible in all the circumstances where abortion would be. Such circumstances include cases where the newborn has the potential to have an (at least) acceptable life, but the well-being of the family is at risk.”

UK Television Presenter Sir David Attenborough (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/9815862/Humans-are-plague-on-Earth-Attenborough.html): “We are a plague on the Earth.

Dave Foreman (http://www.infowars.com/satire-article-quips-at-least-2-3-billion-must-die-to-save-the-earth/), the co-founder of Earth First: “We humans have become a disease, the Humanpox.”

HBO personality Bill Maher (http://cnsnews.com/news/article/bill-maher-planet-too-crowded-and-we-need-promote-death): “I’m pro-choice, I’m for assisted suicide, I’m for regular suicide, I’m for whatever gets the freeway moving – that’s what I’m for. It’s too crowded, the planet is too crowded and we need to promote death.”

Democrat strategist Steven Rattner (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/opinion/health-care-reform-beyond-obamacare.html?_r=3&): “WE need death panels.

Planned Parenthood Founder Margaret Sanger (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger): “All of our problems are the result of overbreeding among the working class” ( @elevenism (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2475) supports planned parenthood 110%, it's just a fucked up way of saying it, this quote)

Jane Goodall (http://www.populationmatters.org/making-case/quotations/): “ If there were just a few of us, then the nasty things we do wouldn’t really matter and Mother Nature would take care of it — but there are so many of us.”

Salon columnist Mary Elizabeth Williams (http://www.salon.com/2013/01/23/so_what_if_abortion_ends_life/) in an article entitled “So What If Abortion Ends Life?”: “All life is not equal.

Paul Ehrlich (http://www.populationmatters.org/making-case/quotations/): “Basically, then, there are only two kinds of solutions to the population problem. One is a ‘birth rate solution,’ in which we find ways to lower the birth rate. The other is a ‘death rate solution,’ in which ways to raise the death rate — war, famine, pestilence — find us.”

Finnish environmentalist Pentti Linkola (http://www.prisonplanet.com/global-warming-alarmist-calls-for-eco-gulags-to-re-educate-climate-deniers.html): “If there were a button I could press, I would sacrifice myself without hesitating if it meant millions of people would die”

Prince Phillip (http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/china_total_dehumanization_report.htm), husband of Queen Elizabeth II and co-founder of the World Wildlife Fund: “In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation.” (sorry, it was Phillip, not Harry)

Now let me get something straight.
I DO realize that there are way too many of us and i understand some of this thinking.

But the more radical quotes scare me, the talk of death panels and wish for pestilence.

I get concerned that someone might try to do it by force.
I look at things like the Zika outbreak and a little voice in the back of my head makes me wonder if it wasn't planned.
Same thing with HIV.

I'm not saying i BELIEVE these things, or that man made pestilence is imminent. It just scares me a little and i wonder. It is a deep down fear for me.
“[W]hen circumstances occur after birth such that they would have justified abortion, what we call after-birth abortion should be permissible. … [W]e propose to call this practice ‘after-birth abortion’, rather than ‘infanticide,’ to emphasize that the moral status of the individual killed is comparable with that of a fetus … rather than to that of a child.
Therefore, we claim that killing a newborn could be ethically permissible in all the circumstances where abortion would be. Such circumstances include cases where the newborn has the potential to have an (at least) acceptable life, but the well-being of the family is at risk.”

“[W]hen circumstances occur after birth such that they would have justified abortion, what we call after-birth abortion should be permissible. … [W]e propose to call this practice ‘after-birth abortion’, rather than ‘infanticide,’ to emphasize that the moral status of the individual killed is comparable with that of a fetus … rather than to that of a child.
Therefore, we claim that killing a newborn could be ethically permissible in all the circumstances where abortion would be. Such circumstances include cases where the newborn has the potential to have an (at least) acceptable life, but the well-being of the family is at risk.”

Archive_Reports

09-02-2016, 03:02 PM

elevenism

09-02-2016, 03:12 PM

Aside from two of those quotes up there, most of them are just saying the Earth is overcrowded and we'd be better off if it weren't. I don't think that's a shocking statement or feeling. It certainly isn't Prince Harry requesting virulent reincarnation.
True. allegro once called me Chicken Little for reading too much into these things.
There are, however, nastier quotes. There is also something called Agenda 21, which is a UN bid to reduce population.

1) “Each birth results not only in the emissions attributable to that person in his or her lifetime, but also the emissions of all his or her descendants. Hence, the emissions savings from intended or planned births multiply with time.”
2) “No human is genuinely “carbon neutral,” especially when all greenhouse gases are figured into the equation. Therefore, everyone is part of the problem, so everyone must be part of the solution in some way.”
If no human is carbon neutral, then what is the fucking solution?
I am less of a conspiracy theorist and more of a conspiracy "fearist" i suppose.
I don't exactly BELIEVE 99.9999% of "conspiracy theories," but there are some about which i wonder "what if" and i am scared.

The fucking ironic thing is that i enjoy the fear. I watch scary conspiracy documentaries and suspend disbelief in the same way that i watch horror movies :P

Archive_Reports

09-02-2016, 03:34 PM

True. @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) once called me Chicken Little for reading too much into these things.
There are, however, nastier quotes. There is also something called Agenda 21, which is a UN bid to reduce population.

1) “Each birth results not only in the emissions attributable to that person in his or her lifetime, but also the emissions of all his or her descendants. Hence, the emissions savings from intended or planned births multiply with time.”
2) “No human is genuinely “carbon neutral,” especially when all greenhouse gases are figured into the equation. Therefore, everyone is part of the problem, so everyone must be part of the solution in some way.”
If no human is carbon neutral, then what is the fucking solution?
I am less of a conspiracy theorist and more of a conspiracy "fearist" i suppose.
I don't exactly BELIEVE 99.9999% of "conspiracy theories," but there are some about which i wonder "what if" and i am scared.

The fucking ironic thing is that i enjoy the fear. I watch scary conspiracy documentaries and suspend disbelief in the same way that i watch horror movies :P

None of that is theory, conspiracy or otherwise. What you listed are (presumably) facts and people should look to reduce their impact on the environment.

elevenism

09-02-2016, 03:44 PM

None of that is theory, conspiracy or otherwise. What you listed are (presumably) facts and people should look to reduce their impact on the environment.
The THEORY part is that someone or a group of people might intentionally wipe out a fuckton of the world's population.

Have you seen the Georgia Guidestones?

allegro

09-02-2016, 03:49 PM

elevenism, look, there is no "conspiracy" in early Planned Parenthood, since most people know that it was originally funded by Republicans pretty much to control black people from having more babies. It wasn't until after Roe v. Wade (and when PP got into the abortion business and the Republicans decided to adopt the Pro-Life platform) that the Republicans decided to go against Planned Parenthood. No conspiracy, really, it's all right there in the history books; for a long time, it was thought to be some kind of eugenics, but it was really just plain old racism.

And cities plant time capsules all the time, it's common. And cities build stupid airports and blow lots of dumb money on them. I'd Google this shit for you, but I'm cleaning the house for a party right now.

I think you LOOK for conspiracies because you like chaos.

Deepvoid

09-02-2016, 03:51 PM

Regarding today's SpaceX explosion:

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--lYY1F9uU--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_320/ccvga6yxzaxujs2ai4j5.gif

Here's a full size video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cmMdYWCeAo

Archive_Reports

09-02-2016, 03:53 PM

The THEORY part is that someone or a group of people might intentionally wipe out a fuckton of the world's population.

Have you seen the Georgia Guidestones?

Yes.

The most widely agreed-upon interpretation of the stones is that they describe the basic concepts required to rebuild a devastated civilization.[13] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones#cite_note-13) Brad Meltzer (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Meltzer) argues that the stones were built in 1979 at the height of the Cold War (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War), and may have been intended as a message to the possible survivors of a World War III (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_III). The engraved suggestion to keep humanity's population below 500 million could have been made under the assumption that it had already been reduced below this number.

The problem with wanting to believe in something, no matter how improbable or irrational, is that evidence against it is always attributed to either A) "That's what 'they' want you to think, man" or B) just not wanting to see/believe.

elevenism

09-02-2016, 03:53 PM

I think you LOOK for conspiracies because you like chaos.

I look for creepy conspiracy type nonsense for pretty much the same reason i watch horror movies.
It's fun and scary. You are absolutely right.
I'm not like a hardline conspiracy theorist. I am someone who is entertained by the ramblings
of hardcore conspiracy theorists. Sometimes, however, i get in over my head and get REALLY scared, and at those points, as i said, i VERY much appreciate your logical dismantling of the thing that scared me.

Also @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) , i didn't mean that planned parenthood was a conspiracy, i simply meant that that quote was fairly nasty w/r/t depopulation theories.

allegro

09-02-2016, 04:00 PM

Also @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) , i didn't mean that planned parenthood was a conspiracy, i simply meant that that quote was fairly nasty w/r/t depopulation theories.
PP was formerly known as THIS (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Birth_Control_League), based on some pretty moralistic shit and it was aimed at blacks and latinos.

I had a psych prof in college, once, who said that we are all equipped with a "Bullshit Bell" and we often do not use this Bell NEARLY enough when it comes to all kinds of things. The next time you feel yourself getting "scared" over this shit on the Internet, etc., I want you to listen for your internal Bullshit Bell which is PROBABLY CLANGING AT HIGH DECIBELS in an attempt to get your attention but you're not listening.

Also, I don't know why overpopulation and the destruction of some of civilization is a "fear" for you. If you have ever taken a higher-level geology class you would know that we are NOT living on a totally hospitable planet, what with earthquakes, tornadoes, tsunamis, floods, hurricanes, volcanos, etc. etc. Some of the greatest civilizations in history were wiped out, completely, by natural disasters. The Earth will survive just about anything, but humans? Earth considers us nothing but cockroaches that are harming the Earth. The more that we do to hurt the Earth, the more that Earth is likely to do stuff to kill off us cockroaches. Earth is pretty fascinating, strong, and it certainly doesn't need US. In fact, it would be better off WITHOUT US. So we don't have to "do" anything to decrease population; Earth usually does that for us, in the form of natural disasters in highly-populated areas like India. This country isn't even densely populated compared to places like India or China. But, when people talk about overpopulation, those are the places that are the biggest problem, yes. We don't need any more fucking people on this planet, it's way too crowded full of humans killing off species, contributing to climate change, etc. And, eventually, Earth will adjust the "balance."

But, here's the thing:

The Sun is expected to go Red Giant. The Earth will not survive. (http://www.universetoday.com/12648/will-earth-survive-when-the-sun-becomes-a-red-giant/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDm0hNWUQjU&feature=youtu.be

Archive_Reports

09-02-2016, 04:02 PM

You can actually see the bird flap its wings.

elevenism

09-02-2016, 04:26 PM

Deepvoid Nasa Cuts Live ISS Feed as Object Appears (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3687451/Has-ISS-captured-footage-UFO-Nasa-cuts-live-feed-international-Space-station-mysterious-object-appears.html)

And this happens all the goddamn time. A strange object will come into view and like, immediately, some type of "sorry we're having technical difficulties" screen replaces the feed.

Now, i'm not saying it was aliens, but it was aliens.

Speaking of the ufo subject, Ancient Aliens is the biggest bunch of disinformation and ridicule fuel i have ever seen in my life.
It is well documented that our government has purposely worked hard to bring ridicule to enthusiasts (see Mirage Men on Netflix.)

I don't know if there are "aliens" visiting earth or not. All i know is that 1: Ufo sightings, as in, literally unidentified flying objects, are at an all time high. I attribute this to the incredible advances in smartphone technology.
And 2: The US government works to actively discredit these sightings. Now, this could be 100% due to the fact that many of the sightings are of next gen military craft.

There are 100 billion to ten TRILLION planets in our tiny galaxy alone. There are at least 100 billion galaxies. this means that by the most conservative estimate, there are TEN BILLION TRILLION planets in the universe. Therefore, i believe that the idea that we are alone in the universe is ridiculous and naive and arrogant and stems from early judeo christian beliefs that god made this one planet and that's it.

That being said, the nearest star to earth is 25 trillion miles away. So, for me, if aliens came here, they wouldn't just appear as pretty lights in the sky and like avoid detection. If they came 4.22 light years, i would imagine that they would fucking make themselves known.

So i just don't know what to think about the whole alien question. But i DO find UFOs, the ones that can't be explained away, quite fascinating.

elevenism

09-02-2016, 04:34 PM

The problem with wanting to believe in something, no matter how improbable or irrational, is that evidence against it is always attributed to either A) "That's what 'they' want you to think, man" or B) just not wanting to see/believe.
And see, @Archive_Reports (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1721) , i obviously haven't looked in the right place for information about the georgia guidestones. I have instead looked at ZOMGTHISISSOCREEPY youtube videos.
And i agree with you, the "that's what they want you to think" is one of those things that can trump anything by throwing logic and reason out the window. It's similar to the early church explaining anything that contradicted its explanation of history by saying "well, that's the work of satan!" This continues today. Hard line young earth creationists say that fossils are the work of the devil.
It's also akin to last thursdayism, where you can't prove that the universe wasn't created last thursday, or five minutes ago. I guess it can also be read as a form of solipsism.

Still, i will continue to derive entertainment from "conspiracy theories," and if i get too scared, i will remember what you said, @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) . I'm sure you've realized this by now, that i don't know what i would do without you :)

henryeatscereal

09-02-2016, 05:22 PM

There are these murals and an explanation which makes sense (http://images.flydenver.com/Art-at-DIA/Permanent-Works/In-Peace-and-Harmony-with-Nature/).

That particularly scary mural is a part of this collection which is called "Children of the World Dream of Peace (http://images.flydenver.com/Art-at-DIA/Permanent-Works/Children-of-the-World-Dream-Peac/)" and it looks like pretty typical Mexican muralism (https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/art-1010/art-between-wars/latin-american-modernism1/a/mexican-muralism-los-tres-grandes-david-alfaro-siqueiros-diego-rivera-and-jos-clemente-orozco).

SEE THIS VIDEO (https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/art-1010/art-between-wars/latin-american-modernism1/v/diego-rivera-man-universe).

Here is an explanation (http://www.publicartarchive.org/work/children-world-dream-peace):

Here is an interview with the Chicago artist, Leo Tanguma (http://www.zingmagazine.com/drupal/node/2039).
Yeah the murals reminded me a lot to Diego Rivera's work, Jose Clemente Orozco did some good ones too!

My parents have a print of this one, notice "La catrina" (a female Grim Reaper) in the crowd...

http://cdmxtravel.com/assets/cache/da0b566359c3862f20b5072c3d49bd0f/discover-1948-1-sueno-tarde-alameda-central-rivera_848x476_adaptiveResize.jpg

theimage13

09-02-2016, 08:10 PM

I agree 100% with the general sentiment that the earth is drastically overpopulated and overburdened with the way we currently use its resources. Maybe these current population numbers would work if we weren't the society we are, but we've done such unimaginable and irreparable damage to this planet that it's really hard to argue that a population decline would be bad.

That said, while I find the notion of a forceful mass-reduction terrifying, I also still find it extremely far-fetched. What I do think we need is to create incentives for adoption over childbirth, and for not having children altogether. We will never be at a rate where we're suddenly at risk of going extinct due to a lack of people screwing and popping out new kids, so why not provide incentives to at least stop squeezing them out in such unnecessarily high numbers?

elevenism

09-02-2016, 08:14 PM

theimage13

09-02-2016, 08:46 PM

Perhaps a tax incentive could be given to those who sacrifice their right to reproduce.
I, too, agree that the world is overpopulated. It's part of the reason i never had a child and never will.
Incentives for adoption are also a GREAT idea.
There are plenty of kids who need a home, and plenty of adults who want kids.

Yeah, if you can write off having kids, maybe you should also be able to write off the same credit - or more - for having a sterilization procedure done.

And a very quick google search suggests that there are currently ~400,000 kids in foster care; 100,000 of whom are available for adoption. How anyone could, in good conscience, bring yet another new life into the world in circumstances like that just baffles me.

elevenism

09-02-2016, 09:35 PM

Yeah, if you can write off having kids, maybe you should also be able to write off the same credit - or more - for having a sterilization procedure done.

And a very quick google search suggests that there are currently ~400,000 kids in foster care; 100,000 of whom are available for adoption. How anyone could, in good conscience, bring yet another new life into the world in circumstances like that just baffles me.
i've never thought about it like this. These are great ideas.

allegro

09-02-2016, 09:42 PM

The COST of adoption is crazy high. That's one prohibition. The other one is that a lot of these foster care kids have various problems that most adults are not equipped to handle. Also, the ones who are busy overproducing are often doing so due to religious reasons (go forth and multiply).

Anyway, whatever, none of this is a conspiracy. A lot of us don't have kids not because it was a concerted effort to avoid overpopulation or because the world is a horrible place but, simply, we just didn't want any.

elevenism

09-02-2016, 09:56 PM

allegro

09-02-2016, 10:16 PM

Yeah the murals reminded me a lot to Diego Rivera's work, Jose Clemente Orozco did some good ones too!

My parents have a print od this one, notice "La catrina" (a female Grim Reaper) in the crowd...

http://cdmxtravel.com/assets/cache/da0b566359c3862f20b5072c3d49bd0f/discover-1948-1-sueno-tarde-alameda-central-rivera_848x476_adaptiveResize.jpg

That is awesome! Sueño de una Tarde Dominical en la Alameda Central (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sue%C3%B1o_de_una_Tarde_Dominical_en_la_Alameda_Ce ntral)

G and I have a really cool Peruvian retablo that we love, see below picture I took

https://imgur.com/KwYRhEp.jpg

elevenism

09-02-2016, 10:20 PM

oh WOW allegro
i freaking ADORE that!
I want one!!!

allegro

09-03-2016, 01:30 PM

oh WOW allegro
i freaking ADORE that!
I want one!!!

The artist, Claudio Jimenez Quispe, a really cool guy (https://www.facebook.com/ZanzibarFairTrade/photos/?tab=album&album_id=10156899978005381), he makes the little figures out of a mixture of potatoes and flour. They're not cheap, though, the bigger ones are fairly expensive, the smaller ones are less, each takes him HOURS AND HOURS to construct. We got ours at an annual art fair here by our house.

theimage13

09-03-2016, 04:49 PM

Oh dear lord, apparently people really are treating the SpaceX accident as an intentional sabotage based on the "UFO" in the video footage.

elevenism

09-03-2016, 05:09 PM

Oh dear lord, apparently people really are treating the SpaceX accident as an intentional sabotage based on the "UFO" in the video footage.
Well of course!
The people who live on mars probably want their privacy, so they sent a craft to sabotage it, right?

That being said, SpaceX i think WAS trying to appeal to the UFO community by using the word "anomaly," which has long been like a ufo buzzword, and even the like prefered gvmt term. I think they WANT people to think that Space Aliens are involved because it raises their profile.

theimage13

09-03-2016, 05:35 PM

Well of course!
The people who live on mars probably want their privacy, so they sent a craft to sabotage it, right?

That being said, SpaceX i think WAS trying to appeal to the UFO community by using the word "anomaly," which has long been like a ufo buzzword, and even the like prefered gvmt term. I think they WANT people to think that Space Aliens are involved because it raises their profile.

I kind of feel like they used it because they're pretty good with transparency and wanted to fess up without literally using the words "look, we just don't know what the fuck happened yet".

elevenism

09-03-2016, 05:58 PM

I kind of feel like they used it because they're pretty good with transparency and wanted to fess up without literally using the words "look, we just don't know what the fuck happened yet".

perhaps...

henryeatscereal

09-03-2016, 06:30 PM

That is awesome! Sueño de una Tarde Dominical en la Alameda Central (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sue%C3%B1o_de_una_Tarde_Dominical_en_la_Alameda_Ce ntral)

G and I have a really cool Peruvian retablo that we love, see below picture I took

Very nice, i love the "calacas" (skulls), maybe we should start a threat to show all our artsy stuff (just like the show your collection tread...)

Anyway i'll try to stay on topic from now on, lol...

Lew

09-05-2016, 03:40 PM

so i am making french toast, and it had me wondering "why the fuck is it 'french' toast?".
ah, but there are also: french braids. french fries. french kisses.

so, does the 'french' imply that the thing or action is more refined? lol. Khrz answer for your country ;p allegro ??? elevenism ???

anyway, couldn't think of where else to put this. sorry if it is drifty.

elevenism

09-05-2016, 05:51 PM

Lew i think i know the answer to this because i wondered the same thing myself once and looked around online, but it would be more appropriate to let Khrz answer

Lew

09-05-2016, 10:29 PM

Lew i think i know the answer to this because i wondered the same thing myself once and looked around online, but it would be more appropriate to let Khrz answer

Ha! Lol it was a lazy ass holiday monday here so I thought i'd throw down here rather than google...
Curious to see what y'all have to say
Xxxooo

Khrz

09-06-2016, 06:15 AM

@Lew (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=473) i think i know the answer to this because i wondered the same thing myself once and looked around online, but it would be more appropriate to let @Khrz (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2023) answer

Well you guys are in a better place than I to explain that, because we have no idea what you're talking about. To us, fries are belgian, condoms are english, chocolate is swiss, croissants are viennese, etc...
I mean, we're glad that part of our reputation is associated with the french kiss, we'll keep that one. But the freedom fries shit, it left us as dumbfounded as a bully stomping on someone else's lunch to teach us a lesson... We had no idea that was supposed to be french, and we really didn't care...
So, I don't know, you sort out your own preconceptions, guys ! :D

Lew

09-06-2016, 02:23 PM

Well you guys are in a better place than I to explain that, because we have no idea what you're talking about. To us, fries are belgian, condoms are english, chocolate is swiss, croissants are viennese, etc...
I mean, we're glad that part of our reputation is associated with the french kiss, we'll keep that one. But the freedom fries shit, it left us as dumbfounded as a bully stomping on someone else's lunch to teach us a lesson... We had no idea that was supposed to be french, and we really didn't care...
So, I don't know, you sort out your own preconceptions, guys ! :D

Ha! Lol...freedom fries was so hysterically funny I almost died from the irony.
Keeping the kiss though, eh?
How French of you :p
Ah, thanks for the giggles. I needed it.

Mantra

09-06-2016, 11:11 PM

Lew

09-07-2016, 07:39 AM

just spent the last few minutes reading over an article (with lots of pictures) about the history of french fries, and now I'm absolutely desperate to get my hands on some this very second. i'm seriously thinking about jumping in my car and racing to the nearest mcdonalds. honestly, french fries are fucking INCREDIBLE.

you appreciate the deliciousness of the time of your post, yes? ;p (edit: hey!!! it said 11:11 when i first read it. wtf conspiracy shite is this now?)

french fries, smothered in gravy and cheese curds, are my manna.

i don't think they are french though, lolololol, i think the french have something called pommes frites.
also, plsthanx, the history of french fried potatoes...???

i hope you got some last night.
fries, that is.

ugh. sorry everyone. i am loopy today. oldest started GRADE FUCKING TEN. and i am kinda reeling here.

theimage13

09-10-2016, 07:32 AM

Okay, getting back to conspiracies again...

Taylor Swift is the clone of a former satanic cult leader (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/taylor-swift-satanic-leader_us_57d2ca46e4b00642712d0e23)

elevenism

11-01-2017, 02:55 PM

So there is some crazy stuff in the JFK files.
There is talk of links between Ruby and Oswald and a suggestion that they went to Cuba together and were heard speaking in some kind of coded language. I don't know if this is true or not but it's pretty damn interesting if you're into this sort of thing, especially when paired with Ruby's statements about how no one would ever know the truth about the assassination.
There is the assertion that the CIA had forty journalists on its payroll at the time of the assassination.
There is evidence that there were known threats to Oswald.
And then, this quote from Hoover that may mean something and may not, depending on how you read it: "the thing I am concerned about...is having something issued so we can convince the public that Oswald is the real assasin."

To me, the craziest thing here is the part about the 40 journalists. I knew about Operation Mockingbird, but I guess I didn't think it was quite like THAT.

henryeatscereal

11-02-2017, 10:06 AM

I was thinking lately about JFK, i finished "11/22/63" and i got deep into JFK folklore.
One thing is for sure: Lee Harvey Oswald didn't act alone...

elevenism

11-07-2017, 08:22 PM

I was thinking lately about JFK, i finished "11/22/63" and i got deep into JFK folklore.
One thing is for sure: Lee Harvey Oswald didn't act alone...

In what way though? Do you think there were multiple shooters, or that he was part of a conspiracy, or both?
i mentioned this in the JFK thread, but this dude i interviewed who was there pretty well convinced me that Oswald was the only shooter. But who knows?
I DEFINITELY think he was part of a conspiracy.

henryeatscereal

11-08-2017, 12:41 PM

In what way though? Do you think there were multiple shooters, or that he was part of a conspiracy, or both?
i mentioned this in the JFK thread, but this dude i interviewed who was there pretty well convinced me that Oswald was the only shooter. But who knows?
I DEFINITELY think he was part of a conspiracy.
I think there was at least another shooter (the infamous "bush" shooter) other than Oswald.
Maybe they weren't working together and each one of them had different agendas, but one thing is for sure: there was a major conspiracy going on...

I found on cracked an interesting article (http://www.cracked.com/article_21794_hello-jfks-about-to-die-6-creepiest-anonymous-calls.html) of a woman that made an anonymous call the day JFK died claiming that: "The president will die in 10 minutes..."

elevenism

11-08-2017, 09:19 PM

I think there was at least another shooter (the infamous "bush" shooter) other than Oswald.
Maybe they weren't working together and each one of them had different agendas, but one thing is for sure: there was a major conspiracy going on...

I found on cracked an interesting article (http://www.cracked.com/article_21794_hello-jfks-about-to-die-6-creepiest-anonymous-calls.html) of a woman that made an anonymous call the day JFK died claiming that: "The president will die in 10 minutes..."
there's just SO FUCKING MUCH.
one thing that blows my mind is this: hoover said, on 11-24-63 that he received a call from a man talking in a calm voice and saying that he was part of a committee organized to kill oswald. The FBI shared this information with the Dallas Police Department, who said they would take the appropriate measures (which they obviously didn't fucking do.)
Here is some more new information: Oswald apparently made a call to a mexican KGB office a few weeks before the assassination. This call was intercepted by the CIA.
Also, the FBI overheard a conversation between two Cubans. One man said Oswald must have been a good shot. The other Cubano, an intelligence officer said "Oh, he was quite good. I knew him."
And then there's a CIA deposition where Deputy Director Helms is asked if Oswald worked for the CIA in any capacity. And then, the document ends.
Furthermore, there is information in the new data about CIA plots to assassinate Castro. There was a documentary about these Castro plots a few years back that was ridiculed as conspiracy theory nonsense. It turns out that most of it was true.
And then there's the part where the KGB conducted its own investigation and came to the conclusion that fucking LBJ had JFK killed. Now that one's pretty goddamn far fetched, but WHO KNOWS?
At the very least, this new data shows that we've been asking the right questions.
I grew up in dallas and there used to be a JFK conspiracy museum there. There's a restaurant there called Campisi's that was started by a fairly notorious italian crime family. Jack Ruby was a regular, and it was also frequented by the Dallas Police. So you had Ruby, Mafiosi, and dallas police officers rubbing shoulders there regularly. And for some reason, Joe Campisi met with Jack Ruby when Ruby was in jail for killing Oswald.

Now, this is pretty far fetched, but still fairly interesting: I saw a documentary suggesting that the BUSH FAMILY was in on JFK. Here it is; check it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NlJQJUUqR4
Also, check out a book by Don De Lillo called Libra. It's a strange brew of post modernism and historical fiction.
And if you are ever in Dallas, you've GOT to check out the Sixth Floor museum. They've turned the Texas School Book Depository into a museum and the money shot is Oswald's sniper nest. Sadly, the conspiracy museum closed its doors long ago, but the Sixth Floor Museum is still a major attraction.
If you're really into this shit, you've got to go to dallas and visit the museum, eat at Campisi's, hang out at dealy plaza, walk the path of the motorcade, and stand on the X on the street that marks the spot where JFK was shot. I've always thought that X was in very poor taste, but hey, it's still pretty cool.

I could go on about this shit forever.

It's deeply ingrained in me from being a bit of a conspiracy theorist and living in dallas with no car. So i haven't just been to Dealy Plaza a few times; rather, my bus transfer spot was a couple hundred yards away from it. And i had to walk the path of the motorcade every time i had to go to the court house (which used to be a lot, hahaha.)
I know i've mentioned some of this shit about D-Town in the JFK thread but i don't know if you saw it.

allegro

11-08-2017, 09:42 PM

And if you are ever in Dallas, you've GOT to check out the Sixth Floor museum. They've turned the Texas School Book Depository into a museum and the money shot is Oswald's sniper nest. Sadly, the conspiracy museum closed its doors long ago, but the Sixth Floor Museum is still a major attraction.
If you're really into this shit, you've got to go to dallas and visit the museum, eat at Campisi's, hang out at dealy plaza, walk the path of the motorcade, and stand on the X on the street that marks the spot where JFK was shot. I've always thought that X was in very poor taste, but hey, it's still pretty cool.

I could go on about this shit forever.

It's deeply ingrained in me from being a bit of a conspiracy theorist and living in dallas with no car. So i haven't just been to Dealy Plaza a few times; rather, my bus transfer spot was a couple hundred yards away from it. And i had to walk the path of the motorcade every time i had to go to the court house (which used to be a lot, hahaha.)
I know i've mentioned some of this shit about D-Town in the JFK thread but i don't know if you saw it.

I would actually like to see all that. Not not just out of macabre curiosity but from my fond memories from that time, such a tragedy.

elevenism

11-08-2017, 09:49 PM

I would actually like to see all that. Not not just out of macabre curiosity but from my fond memories from that time, such a tragedy.you would LOVE that museum. It's not just about the assassination.

ton

11-08-2017, 10:41 PM

Okay, getting back to conspiracies again...

Taylor Swift is the clone of a former satanic cult leader (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/taylor-swift-satanic-leader_us_57d2ca46e4b00642712d0e23)

Still amazing lol

elevenism

11-16-2017, 12:47 AM

So I'm hearing that Bowie's final post on his forum was a warning about the dangers of internet tracking. Can anyone confirm this? It reads as follows: "Google’s motto is b.s. They are destroying the most glorious gift humanity was granted in the last 300 years. Google is illuminati. Illuminati is google. The future under google is a fascist dystopia, their way or the highway, no room for dissidents, no room for free speech. Google is a boot stomping on your face for eternity. sailor.“

botley

11-16-2017, 12:57 AM

elevenism

11-16-2017, 01:35 AM

‘sailor’ was a goofy impersonator, usually. Not Bowie himself.
Thanks @botley (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=469)

I thought it sounded pretty fucking fishy.

botley

11-16-2017, 02:30 AM

I mean if anything Bowie and Iman were the Illuminati, right?

Please note that I am joking about this. Or am I??!

Sutekh

11-22-2017, 11:09 AM

Today is the 54th anniversary of the Kennedy assassination

5+4=9, K is the 11th letter of the alphabet.

9/11

Check mate atheists

theimage13

11-22-2017, 12:20 PM

Today is the 54th anniversary of the Kennedy assassination

5+4=9, K is the 11th letter of the alphabet.

9/11

Check mate atheists

Today is the 54th anniversary of the Kennedy assassination.

5x4=20, T is the Twentieth letter of the alphabet.

The word "Twentieth" has three "t"s in it, signifying the three crosses of Golgotha where Jesus was crucified between two common criminals.

Kennedy was Jesus reborn and he was shot by two separate people.

Check mate Sutekh

Sutekh

11-22-2017, 12:37 PM

Sublime...! You could be making money on the tinfoil circuit, no joke

theimage13

11-22-2017, 01:05 PM

Sublime...! You could be making money on the tinfoil circuit, no joke

Thank you! The two problems though are that I need inspiration (never would've written the above without seeing your post first) and I'm ethically unable to profit off the sheer stupidity of those less fortunate than me. I'm the kind of person who's had so much guilt beaten into them that I give back extra change if the cashier gives me too much. Profiting off of conspiracy theorists just wouldn't feel right :(

elevenism

04-04-2018, 01:47 PM

Ok.
What in the FUCK is going on with Trump and Putin?
Putin shows video of Florida being attacked at his speech. So Trump...calls Putin to congratulate him on his election win a few weeks later.
If course we all know that's just the tip of the iceberg, but Jesus Wept, this shit just gets crazier and crazier.
Putin tests Satan2, Trump makes plans to invite him to the white house, breaking with decades of American policy.
I think Trump is a moron, but I don't think he's THAT fucking stupid. I mean, for fuck's sake, this is "Russian dictator-style president who was a KGB agent openly threatens US, US President responds by kissing his ass.

I think it's one of two things: Putin has irrefutable evidence of collusion re: election meddling.

OR, these two have made some kind of deal to help each other from time to time.
For instance: Trump wants more military spending and calls for it in Feb. In march, Putin tests SATAN2 and yammers about how Russia can now get around missile defense (which I don't even believe.)

Now, Trump can say "see, I TOLD you we needed a bigger military budget!"

what do you guys think of this?

Louie_Cypher

04-04-2018, 03:02 PM

we also might be pulling out of Syria, which would benefit, who?
-louie

allegro

04-04-2018, 04:28 PM

we also might be pulling out of syria, which would benefit, who?
-louie
isis

elevenism

04-04-2018, 10:08 PM

yeah there's CONSPIRACY THEORY (reptillian aliens run the world, flat earth etc.)

And then there's the shady shit that's absolutely real and trying to figure it out.

also, allegro , wouldn't pulling out of Syria benefit Assad, who is propped up by Russia?

allegro

04-04-2018, 11:07 PM

Also propped up by Iran.

I dunno, Syria is a total shit hole now, it’s sad.

This probably belongs in a different thread, it’s not a conspiracy:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/iran-russia-and-turkey-meet-over-syrias-future-as-trump-mulls-troop-withdrawal/2018/04/04/c607e27c-3770-11e8-af3c-2123715f78df_story.html?utm_term=.e1fdc2d81561

Trump just wants that money for his Mexican Wall

elevenism

04-05-2018, 04:41 PM

Yeah allegro , pictures of Aleppo make me ashamed to be a fucking human being.

Back on topic then: do you guys have any theories of speculations on secrets regarding the Trump/Putin dynamic?

I wonder if Putin might have told Trump "hey, we're going to help you win the election. And any legal consequences will fall on ME, not you."
and perhaps he presented in such a way that it was believable.

But it was a trick, and now Putin can prove that Trump cheated (whether he realized it or not,) and is basically blackmailing him.

elevenism

09-01-2018, 09:08 AM

Louie_Cypher

09-01-2018, 11:15 AM

@Louie_Cypher (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=775) after you mentioned Q Anon, I looked into it and WHAT IN THE FUCK?!

Here's my question: do you think trump might be egging this thing on?

I also just saw an episode of this show called Adam Ruins Everything about the science behind why people fall for conspiracy theories: it made me think of you. thanks for the mention and will definitely look into Adam ruins everything. look I honestly try to post without an agenda. and try to promote investigation intelligence. and enlightenment an illuminate if you will pun intended. i often look for patterns in verbal social communication. look i have long been fascinated with the occult reading tarot for money @ around 14 as well as know many in high levels of the O.T.O, my own personal beliefs not withstanding. I think mostly "satanism" as we know it is theatrical and as Anton Levey said, nothing more than organized atheism. and if you honestly look the largest active pedophile ring in the world is none other than the catholic church. anyways, if I'm ever in Texas,and not much of a drinker anymore. woyld love to sit down and shoot the shit.
-louie

elevenism

09-03-2018, 01:00 AM

thanks for the mention and will definitely look into Adam ruins everything. look I honestly try to post without an agenda. and try to promote investigation intelligence. and enlightenment an illuminate if you will pun intended. i often look for patterns in verbal social communication. look i have long been fascinated with the occult reading tarot for money @ around 14 as well as know many in high levels of the O.T.O, my own personal beliefs not withstanding. I think mostly "satanism" as we know it is theatrical and as Anton Levey said, nothing more than organized atheism. and if you honestly look the largest active pedophile ring in the world is none other than the catholic church. anyways, if I'm ever in Texas,and not much of a drinker anymore. woyld love to sit down and shoot the shit.
-louie
check your pm's.

Also: i've been searching for real theistic satanism since i was a kid.
The idea of actual evil worship enthralls me.

The closest thing i've found to the real deal is the Order of Nine Angles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Nine_Angles#Organization), but they keep a VERY low profile and there's not really any way of knowing if they actually did the things they claimed to have done, or if there were ever even more than a few people involved. But it's still worth a look.
Their literature DOES advocate human sacrifice, and they encourage targeting "fake" (non theistic) satanists like Temple of Set members and LaVeyan satanists.

theimage13

09-03-2018, 04:49 AM

Louie_Cypher

09-03-2018, 07:32 AM

check your pm's.

Also: i've been searching for real theistic satanism since i was a kid.
The idea of actual evil worship enthralls me.

The closest thing i've found to the real deal is the Order of Nine Angles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Nine_Angles#Organization), but they keep a VERY low profile and there's not really any way of knowing if they actually did the things they claimed to have done, or if there were ever even more than a few people involved. But it's still worth a look.
Their literature DOES advocate human sacrifice, and they encourage targeting "fake" (non theistic) satanists like Temple of Set members and LaVeyan satanists. thanks got the PM observing labor day to unplug but will reply i think the temple aet of all but desolved, a lot of my friends that are active occultist are also burners go figure although i haven't been in years. in my opinion. is charged for the worse away from it's original intent;. but topic for another thread.
-Louie

elevenism

09-03-2018, 05:42 PM

it looks very possible that this is a massive prank on trump supporters (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanhatesthis/its-looking-extremely-likely-that-qanon-is-probably-a)yeeeeah!
Yes!!!

elevenism

09-06-2018, 04:33 PM

There's only one conspiracy associated channel that I watch on YouTube these days: it's called Alltime Conspiracies.

They rationally look into conspiracy theories and, of course, do a lot of debunking, while occasionally pointing out legitimately weird shit.

I still love the unknown in all its forms, but I've hit a point where I can't handle much crazy conjecture being peddled as fact anymore.

Plus, we've got conspiracies unfolding regularly on the nightly news, what with this lunatic in the white house. :)

elevenism

02-18-2019, 05:00 PM

Ok. Two things.

I apologize for my support of Alex Jones. I was a big fan a LONG TIME ago. I appreciated him outing Bohemian Grove and such, but most of all, I appreciated his hatred for the Bush family.

But I stopped listening a long time ago, like, ten fucking years ago.

Having watched some of his videos from the time I missed, I'm just utterly stunned. He's either playing a fucking character, or has truly lost his mind, possibly from methamphetamine use or some shit.

So, yeah, the guy who was deplatformed was NOT the AJ I knew in the '00s. THAT'S the guy I was defending. He said some dumb shit now and then, but he also exposed some real shit that's unimpeachable. FUrthermore, I thought he was going to support Obama.

THEN, I realized that Jones would never support a political candidate, the jones of the '00s I mean. This is why his support of trump fucking baffled me. I didn't know he was yammering on about "democrats" now: he used to abhor both parties.

But, yeah, the Jones I wasn't aware of, the Jones of the past several years, deserved to be banned. I get it now, and I apologize. I'm disgusted.

elevenism

02-18-2019, 05:04 PM

Second thing: are you guys aware of Jones vs. Rogan?
It's fucking INSANE.

SO: conspiracy theory - could this beef be staged? Rogan and Jones have been friends since the fucking 90s.

Could Jones have ASKED Rogan to do this shit, or, did Rogan say "hey, I'm gonna help you get some new subscribers, old buddy. My reputation can handle it."

?

Dryalex12

02-18-2019, 05:14 PM

Ah yes Conspiracy Theories....one of the few things I actively despise.

elevenism

02-18-2019, 05:22 PM

Ah yes Conspiracy Theories....one of the few things I actively despise.
Why? What is a conspiracy?
A conspiracy is a couple of people making a deal that they don't want everyone to know about. This happens millions of times a week, I'd reckon.

And, like it or not, conspiracy theories have uncovered some god awful shit, like Bayer knowingly putting a hemophilia drug on the market that was infected with Hep C and HIV.

I think that MOST conspiracy theories are utter bullshit, but others have turned out to be true: MKULTRA and MKOFTEN also come to mind.

Dryalex12

02-18-2019, 05:44 PM

Why? What is a conspiracy?
A conspiracy is a couple of people making a deal that they don't want everyone to know about. This happens millions of times a week, I'd reckon.

And, like it or not, conspiracy theories have uncovered some god awful shit, like Bayer knowingly putting a hemophilia drug on the market that was infected with Hep C and HIV.

I think that MOST conspiracy theories are utter bullshit, but others have turned out to be true: MKULTRA and MKOFTEN also come to mind.

Yes I know, and I'd really call the Bayer thing a scandal than a Conspiracy.

But I can't stand people who believe into this fucking absurd ass shit. I'm not going to trust this random person about how the moon landing was fake, a person who very much has no idea how science or physics work, has done no research on it over a fucking scientist.

I fucking hate it.

elevenism

02-18-2019, 06:25 PM

Yes I know, and I'd really call the Bayer thing a scandal than a Conspiracy.

But I can't stand people who believe into this fucking absurd ass shit. I'm not going to trust this random person about how the moon landing was fake, a person who very much has no idea how science or physics work, has done no research on it over a fucking scientist.

I fucking hate it.

trust me.
i understand.
Make no mistake, though. The fucks at Bayer, in fact, conspired to do what they did.
People suspected it and it turned out to be true.
Now, it was a scandal when it was exposed, no doubt.
But it was, in fact, a conspiracy by awful corporate fucks who, eventually, unloaded said drug on China and whatnot.

This trump collusion theory...is that not a conspiracy theory?
The McCabe thing in the news today...the thing with the actor from empire (whichever way it goes.)

"conspiracy theory," the way you mean it, has become a joke, associated with the far right.

I guess that, when i started this thread, i was referring more to the actual definitions of the words, you feel me?

But i can VERY much understand where you're coming from.

As i've said before, there's "conspiracy theory," as in what it generally means these days, and then there are actual ideas about people conspiring to do shit that is fucked up.

Another good example is PRISM. My buddy Joey, god rest his soul, was yammering for years about how the NSA was gathering information on us and could listen to our conversations through our cell phones, etc.

i made fun of him for it, endlessly.

and then, SURE ENOUGH...

fucksake, i wish the poor bastard had lived to see Snowden's revelations, and been vindicated.

theimage13

02-18-2019, 08:24 PM

Yes I know, and I'd really call the Bayer thing a scandal than a Conspiracy.

What's the difference between a conspiracy theory and a scandal?

Proof.

That's why I don't dismiss ALL conspiracy theories as utter bullshit just because they sound outlandish. Most of them are, and like you I won't trust anyone who just spouts of bullshit that intelligent people have already contradicted. We landed on the moon. The earth is a sphere. Etc. But every once in a great while, something that sounds absolutely bat-shit crazy turns out to actually be true, as elevenism has pointed out.

Dryalex12

02-19-2019, 06:28 PM

What's the difference between a conspiracy theory and a scandal?

Proof.

That's why I don't dismiss ALL conspiracy theories as utter bullshit just because they sound outlandish. Most of them are, and like you I won't trust anyone who just spouts of bullshit that intelligent people have already contradicted. We landed on the moon. The earth is a sphere. Etc. But every once in a great while, something that sounds absolutely bat-shit crazy turns out to actually be true, as @elevenism (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2475) has pointed out.

Im not saying that none of them are true, but the matter of the fact is that Conspiracy theories will forever be tainted because of people like Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh and fucking James Woods of all people. The Nazi's did it with the Manji, turning a harmless symbol of good luck into the hated image we see it as today, even though the Manji actually has some differences than a Swastika. Same thing with those ancient Ruins that also tainted by them. The complete horseshit as outweighed the ones that are actually true and I don't think it will ever be the harmless thing it used to be, say like it was when The X-Files was a brand new thing and it was more tamed.

Halo Infinity

02-22-2019, 05:25 PM

I actually thought what also tainted conspiracy theories was also because some conspiracy theories also include beliefs in the paranormal, such as paranormal activity and paranormal investigation, which for obvious reasons can be often deemed to be stupid and crazy bullshit. It's not just when conspiracy theories become combined with paranormal investigations, but also the fact that conspiracy theories are equally dismissed/regarded as paranormal beliefs such as ghosts and aliens.

I know I brought this up with @elevenism (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2475) before, but once I saw that connection, especially on YouTube, it helped me further understand as to why conspiracy theories are subject to lots of skepticism, ridicule, derision, jeers/taunts and even irritation/aggravation/frustration from time to time. Anyway, I still sometimes find it interesting to read into, even without believing this and/or that. (And not that you have to nor should you, since gullibility/credulousness is very misleading/deceiving, but I sometimes enjoy entertaining such thoughts (Yes, imagination included, aside from plain speculation.), since sometimes as the quote says, fact can be stranger than fiction, especially if/when actually proven.)

But yeah. It depends who you speak to, since discussing conspiracy theories is sometimes tantamount to discussing ghosts and aliens. And given some of the reactions to expect from merely bring up ghosts and aliens, it really is no wonder why it sometimes just doesn't end well as a topic of conversation.

elevenism

02-22-2019, 08:28 PM

So, back to where I started: have you guys SEEN the shit Alex Jones is saying about Joe Rogan, and the way he's screaming "I want WAR! This is WAR AHHHHHHH FUUUUUUUK yAAAAAAAAH!" or whatever ?

IS there a possibility that this shit is STAGED? These guys are old friends.

allegate

02-22-2019, 09:40 PM

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/status/1099133262553931776

elevenism

02-27-2019, 02:35 PM

Annnnnnnnd

Alex Jones is on Joe Rogan, right now, live, doing mea culpas here and saying shit joe agrees with there.

Maaaaan, I'm telling you guys, this whole "feud" was like pro wrestling .

Wretchedest

02-27-2019, 07:12 PM

Well, for the record the alien stuff isn't what upsets me about like what some one was saying. Like all that shit is so far gone and Looney toons that it's just kind of funny. Like got a will Smith movie out of it and occassional references to like area 51 and all that shit is really stupid and harmless and so it's kind of fun.

But now there's a resuegance of measles and victims of shootings are being harassed and conspiracy narratives are being used to obscure decent reporting to shield an extremely corrupt president push deeply racist agendas and it's just not fun any more.

I also think that a time when real conversation is necessary conspiracy theories are kind of polluting. Any reasonable conversation about policy solutions becomes quickly derailed if reptilians or shadow government's and such are introduced...and sometimes it feels like that's by design. In those cases we are out matched by an over powered villain and so there's nothing we can do about it and therefore we don't have to do anything about it, if you get what I mean.

Haysey_Draws

05-02-2019, 05:38 AM

Pretty good read

Why we are addicted to conspiracy theories

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/02/why-we-are-addicted-to-conspiracy-theories

allegate

08-27-2019, 08:00 PM

A) The book The Great Derangement (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1948003.The_Great_Derangement) by Matt Taibbi has an interesting take on conspiracy theories.

B)

https://i.imgur.com/8sEiPE0.png

PS - I know the times don't line up, but it's a funnier one that I've read.

Halo Infinity

11-10-2019, 11:25 PM

I wasn't too sure of posting these in the Random NIN Thoughts or NIN Spotting thread, since topics like these aren't usually taken so well, and it would seem like it would probably fit in here much better. I actually found this video and channel when I was lurking around the comment section of Tori Amos's Caught a Lite Sneeze video.

@elevenism (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2475) - And of course, I certainly had you in mind as soon as I watched these videos, and I'd love your take on it, as I'd know you'd absolutely be all over something like this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oRmQyzdJhs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3h-AGX7zac

Oh, and I also forgot to mention that this channel has also done videos on 11:11.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28h-WPaz9CI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIirk_t04ZQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEcQi1SzDeU

As for the actual channel itself: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQw7XFIlqI4BrUTtKTwbTog

All from looking up a Tori Amos video, but of course, it's YouTube so anything goes. :p

allegate

11-17-2019, 01:09 PM

are you ok?

i apologize in advance for the harsh words, I probably shouldn't have used them.

BRoswell

11-17-2019, 01:20 PM

I think conspiracy theories have been given a bad name.

There's a good reason for that: most of them are complete nonsense and are easily debunked.

It's funny to me how many "freethinkers" listen to the same people over and over again and never think to question what underlying motives those people may have for peddling conspiracy theories. Like I said before in this thread, the difference between conspiracy theorists and religious fanatics is razor thin. People will fall in line with whoever promises them "truth" because it doesn't actually require them to think.

katara

11-17-2019, 03:54 PM

BRoswell

11-17-2019, 04:15 PM

Meh, a lot of them are retarded but the Dems losing they're shit because hillary didn't win is not a theory. The media and Democrats have colluded and it's not a theory. And no I don't watch fox, I think they're liars too. The media has divided everyone and I think it's on purpose. I know I'm not stupid enough to fall for it but so many people I admire a d respect have.

The Russian narrative was a smoke bomb Hillary threw down to sliter away. The Dems are corrupt, Trump is corrupt, the media is corporate owned left wing garbage. Politics are a nightmare right now. That's not even addressing pc culture and the fact everyone under 30 is a pussy. I never thought the very people I hated,.right wing Christian's from the 2000s I'd have more in common with than liberals of today. Bizzaro backwards world.

You sound like you're a lot of fun to be around.

Jinsai

11-17-2019, 05:37 PM

I think conspiracy theories have been given a bad name. Its been a clever propaganda tool. So legit news has thumbed it's nose for 40 years, conditioned people to expect that they, and only they can give the real news. Well one day they lose, one day what they want doesent happen. No problem, we conditioned them to believe conspiracy is not real. They then pump conspiracy after conspiracy as a bait and switch. Pretty fucking clever.

I always thought the fans of a guy who made year zero were smarter than to believe what they see on tv. They're not. They bought it. Propaganda is powerful in America. Fucking backwards bizzaro world.

Yeah, well, I thought most of Year Zero sucked, so watch me be a total fucking rebel

Jinsai

11-17-2019, 05:40 PM

Really why? It's a badass album.

Childish "revolutionary" lyrics, unnecessary ARG to push the music (that still delivered a clearer message than the album), pop hooks that didn't deliver....

I like the noise breakdown in Great Destroyer. Me I'm Not was cool. I liked Zero Sum. Not even close to being my favorite NIN thing, and it's weird to hear someone group fans into "people who appreciate Year Zero" but whatever

Jinsai

11-17-2019, 06:15 PM

I meant people have been shown through year zero how the media is fucked and government are liars. Just because bush was bad doesent mean the Dems are saints. I find it weird that nails fans are just so quick to believe the mainstream media. It's been strange watching fellow Democrats just tow the corporate media line and not question anything. Just "yup Maddow said it and she's gay so it's true" just weird. And if you question it " you're a Russian bot fox news lover I hate you die"

Iove year zero and it's def Influenced me to read a lot of material that made me skeptical of media and government.

I don't think anyone is saying the Dems are saints.

Jinsai

11-17-2019, 06:56 PM

A lot of people are very tribal. Each sides media takes each event and slants the narrative in a way that benifits the outcome they are trying to control.

No. I'm not part of that team play bullshit. I just hate Trump because he sucks.

allegate

11-17-2019, 08:51 PM

Childish "revolutionary" lyrics, unnecessary ARG to push the music (that still delivered a clearer message than the album), pop hooks that didn't deliver....

I like the noise breakdown in Great Destroyer. Me I'm Not was cool. I liked Zero Sum. Not even close to being my favorite NIN thing, and it's weird to hear someone group fans into "people who appreciate Year Zero" but whatever

that breakdown in TGD is/was so good. Really energized me towards the band again.

theimage13

11-17-2019, 09:18 PM

The thing is, some of us live in the real world.

The whole "well both sides aren't saints so you're all fucking stupid sheep for siding with any of them" is ridiculous and detached from reality. A lot of Democrats are like stubbing your toe and getting a papercut in that spot between your fingers, whereas a lot of Republicans are like having rusty jumper cables attached to extremely sensitive parts of your body and connected to a car battery, all while someone else shoves ice picks under your nails beats you with a sock full of quarters. I would venture to say that a very, very large portion of career politicians at the DC level are kind of shitty, but the difference is that one party seems to stand for at least *trying* to make things better, while the other one pines for the days that you could tell a colored person to go use a different water fountain and make cars that get eight miles to the gallon.

I'd like to hear your suggestion for how distrusting journalists will magically fix this. Oh, and if no one's to be trusted, how do YOU choose between what is or isn't true if you haven't personally witnessed it and every circumstance surrounding it?

(And off-topic, but Year Zero was a great album, and the ARG may not have been necessary but it was fucking fun.)

BRoswell

11-17-2019, 11:43 PM

Conspiracy theorists are just as tribal as political/social/religious entities. The people you should question the most are the ones you actually trust. I don't mean that in a paranoid way where everyone is out to get you, but in a way that, when they're full of shit, you automatically can tell.

I forget who said it, but I remember reading an interview with someone who mentioned that the creation of the internet allowed people with insane theories to connect with other people who believed them, thus causing them to believe their theories to be valid. It's really the same thing you experience in a religious ceremony or even a concert. It's not a god or holy spirit driving you. It's just a collective mindset coming together and feeding off of itself. You believe in it because you're a part of something and that vindicates how you feel. There's nothing particularly logical about any of it. It's purely driven by emotional responses and a feeling of community. That's fine when it comes to art, but when it comes to politics or religion or conspiracies, it becomes something that rots and contaminates the mind.

HWB

11-18-2019, 01:40 AM

Moon is made out of cheese and anime girls are real.

Jinsai

11-18-2019, 02:44 PM

News sources can spin information, but if they peddle a flagrantly false story it is a huge controversy, and that even goes for Fox News. Their talking heads aren't news outlets. You're also focused on cable news it seems... let's talk about newspapers. You can trust that the front page stories on legitimate newspapers are vetted and truthful.

theimage13

11-18-2019, 03:51 PM

You can trust that the front page stories on legitimate newspapers are vetted and truthful.

YOU can, sure. (S)he can't. The Washington Post is owned by Jeff Bezos, one of the richest men in the world, who would be reduced to poverty if the wrong political thing happened. So he makes his editorial staff lie about everything in order to keep us all *thinking* they're reporting the news while really he's just trying to protect his profits by any means necessary, including inventing news stories.

(For the love of god, don't take anything I just wrote seriously. Just dropping a conspiracy theory.)

Jinsai

11-18-2019, 04:25 PM

I would also like to know what Nancy Pelosi has done or said that makes her "a retard," but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Demogorgon

11-18-2019, 04:43 PM

I would also like to know what Nancy Pelosi has done or said that makes her "a retard," but I'm not going to hold my breath.

DV's favorite game is PUBG, so, i think that tells you everything you need to know about where that conversation will end.

Archive_Reports

11-18-2019, 05:13 PM

Moon is made out of cheese...

I mean, that's just science.

Jinsai

11-18-2019, 05:46 PM

DV's favorite game is PUBG

At some point I really need to try this game... just so I know what I'm (not?) missing out on.

theimage13

11-19-2019, 10:29 AM

Meanwhile, full-blown conspiracy happening right in front of our eyes. Watching C-SPAN's stream of the impeachment testimony this morning, and...one shot, the camera op in the back is a tall, heavyset gentleman. Next shot? A SHORT WOMAN.

These "live" hearings are just a poorly edited movie the Democrat Propaganda Machine made with help from Fake News CNN. And ALL the Fake News Media are carrying it. SAD! Witch Hunt!1

Demogorgon

11-19-2019, 03:40 PM

This works out pretty good, actually. Since we know he's not listening, we don't have to engage him, and the more he uses hate speech like "retard", the closer he gets to a ban. I call that a win.

allegate

11-20-2019, 04:08 PM

more on track:

https://twitter.com/hotdogsladies/status/825601382845591552

Halo Infinity

11-23-2019, 04:57 PM

There's a good reason for that: most of them are complete nonsense and are easily debunked.

It's funny to me how many "freethinkers" listen to the same people over and over again and never think to question what underlying motives those people may have for peddling conspiracy theories. Like I said before in this thread, the difference between conspiracy theorists and religious fanatics is razor thin. People will fall in line with whoever promises them "truth" because it doesn't actually require them to think.
In all seriousness, is this also why it shouldn't be a surprise that there's a connection between conspiracy theorists and believers in paranormal activity as well as paranormal investigators themselves?

As I've mentioned several times before, I used to actually have absolutely no idea that conspiracy theories and the paranormal/occult actually go hand in hand a lot more than I've realized. And for very obvious reasons at this point, I'm sure it's safe to assume that the paranormal and the occult in general would also fall under same categories that religious fanatics to you.

And just about every single conspiracy theorist I've encountered in real life also tend to believe in ghosts and aliens. And just knowing more about this has also helped me realized why atheists also tend to reject conspiracy theories. Come to think of it, every conspiracy theorist I've met in real life also either challenges atheists or completely disagrees with atheism as well. It's one thing to see it on YouTube, social media and forums though, but it just happened to be that way every time I encountered conspiracy theorists. As somebody that lives in New York City, there's also lot of Truthers around me, and have also told me that 9/11 was an inside job, just to single out one example from many.