General Police Misconduct aka Murdering Black People

[Deepvoid]

I'm not familiar with guns' magazine so I have to ask, how many bullets are this type of weapon?
By firing 11 times, did the officer pretty much empty his magazine?

[tony.parente]

I'm not familiar with guns' magazine so I have to ask, how many bullets are this type of weapon?
By firing 11 times, did the officer pretty much empty his magazine?

Most cops carry a glock 19 9mm and they usually have 46 rounds on them, 3 clips with 15 rounds and 1 in the chamber.

[Deepvoid]

I listened to the audio again and you can clearly hear 6 shots being fired. Then a 1 or 2 second pause followed by 4 additional shots fired.
Aren't all police vehicles equipped with dash cams with audio? If there's a struggle near or inside the car, that camera would have definitely caught the audio of it.

[tony.parente]

I listened to the audio again and you can clearly hear 6 shots being fired. Then a 1 or 2 second pause followed by 4 additional shots fired.
Aren't all police vehicles equipped with dash cams with audio? If there's a struggle near or inside the car, that camera would have definitely caught the audio of it.

Cameras were on order and not installed yet.

Fuck this thread is a magnet to me.

[Deepvoid]

Cameras were on order and not installed yet.



Wow! Talk about bad timing.

[Sarah K]

I read that they actually had the cameras, but just hadn't installed them yet. So they were just sitting there.

[orestes]

And ETS is supposed to be free of ad hominem attacks or comments since they cause DRIFT

Indeed it does!

[allegro]

I bet we can all guess that more and more audio and video is going to appear as this grand jury progresses.

[Swykk]

I'm hoping more and more audio and video evidence comes forward, actually.

[Satyr]

I'm hoping more and more audio and video evidence comes forward, actually.

It's pretty frustrating that nobody is saying anything. Not even the cops story of what happened. How long does this grand jury stuff usually take to decide to indite or not?

[Sarah K]

Last I read, it could take until mid-October.

It's going to be a while.

[Satyr]

I'm not familiar with guns' magazine so I have to ask, how many bullets are this type of weapon?
By firing 11 times, did the officer pretty much empty his magazine?

Without knowing what caliber was used....You can't really estimate the capacity of the firearm. I can't find anything on the caliber used or the specific model of firearm. The vast majority of cops do carry handguns with capacity >11 rounds

I'd bet money that the officers story will be that Brown bum rushed him and injured his face (even if he doesn't have an orbital blow out fracture most reports are saying he had a swollen face regardless). Officer drew weapon and fired 6 shots hitting Brown in the right area....Officer then reassed if Brown was going to continue to come after him...he did. final shots hit head and neck.

[Deepvoid]

There was no GSR on Brown's skin. Clothing has yet to be tested I believe.
So Brown had to be a few feet away from the officer when he was shot.
Didn't they say there were struggling near the officer's car?

When you look at the two videos available. Brown's body is laying in the middle of the street nowhere near a police car. Did they move the car? Wouldn't that be tempering with a crime scene?

[DigitalChaos]

re Brown reaching for a gun; we are not certain that actually happened.
Even if he did, that's such a difficult thing to prove in a physical interaction like that. When you are fighting with someone, you grab at things to get leverage. A holstered gun is GOING to get bumped or even possibly pushed/grabbed without the person actually trying to take the gun.

That's my completely pointless conjecture!

[tony.parente]

There was no GSR on Brown's skin. Clothing has yet to be tested I believe.
So Brown had to be a few feet away from the officer when he was shot.
Didn't they say there were struggling near the officer's car?

When you look at the two videos available. Brown's body is laying in the middle of the street nowhere near a police car. Did they move the car? Wouldn't that be tempering with a crime scene?

Reports say he was 35 feet away or so. I'm not sure if the police SUV in this video is darrens but it looks about 35 feet away. The SUV is shown briefly at the 37 second mark (graphic NSFW video of course)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fvUGI6SCN38#t=37

[Satyr]

Even if he did, that's such a difficult thing to prove in a physical interaction like that. When you are fighting with someone, you grab at things to get leverage. A holstered gun is GOING to get bumped or even possibly pushed/grabbed without the person actually trying to take the gun.

That's my completely pointless conjecture!

Still the cop is innocent until proven guilty within a reasonable doubt. All it would take is one juror believing that there is a reasonable chance Brown was assaulting the officer and trying to take his gun to murder him....

[Deepvoid]

Reports say he was 35 feet away or so. I'm not sure if the police SUV in this video is darrens but it looks about 35 feet away. The SUV is shown briefly at the 37 second mark (graphic NSFW video of course)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=fvUGI6SCN38#t=37

35 feet seems pretty far away when you consider that the alleged brawl took place through the driver seat's window.

[tony.parente]

35 feet seems pretty far away when you consider that the alleged brawl took place through the driver seat's window.

Well, everyone agrees that Mike ran away from the officer after whatever happened in the police vehicle. What happened after is disputed, whether that be he charged at the police, or he was shot from behind, turned around with his hands up and shot to death.

[DigitalChaos]

I'm not familiar with guns' magazine so I have to ask, how many bullets are this type of weapon?
By firing 11 times, did the officer pretty much empty his magazine?Without knowing what caliber was used....You can't really estimate the capacity of the firearm. I can't find anything on the caliber used or the specific model of firearm. The vast majority of cops do carry handguns with capacity >11 rounds

I'd bet money that the officers story will be that Brown bum rushed him and injured his face (even if he doesn't have an orbital blow out fracture most reports are saying he had a swollen face regardless). Officer drew weapon and fired 6 shots hitting Brown in the right area....Officer then reassed if Brown was going to continue to come after him...he did. final shots hit head and neck.

Glocks are definitely the most popular, but there are just too many options.
Here is what Glock says are the standard LE carry choices

http://i.imgur.com/o7dRkEk.jpg

I don't know what the "law enforcement only" weapons are grayed out in the "law enforcement" selection but whatever.

Since this wasn't an undercover cop or anything, you'll want to only look at the standard and compact columns.


http://i.imgur.com/8p52ssM.jpg


They are very likely going to be using standard mags. I don't see any 10/11rd mag options that make any sense. (10rd if they actual do +1 cambering) So, I think it's safe to say that he did not dump a full magazine... if the cop were using a glock. I can't think of any 10/11rd magazine weapons that a cop normally carries.

[allegro]

Still the cop is innocent until proven guilty within a reasonable doubt. All it would take is one juror believing that there is a reasonable chance Brown was assaulting the officer and trying to take his gun to murder him....
It's more complicated than that, though. First, the cop has to be indicted. Then, this won't be just "murder" charges; this will be charges related to a police officer using lethal force. The Supreme Court of the United States already established that police officers cannot use lethal force when simply trying to stop fleeing felons. Then, even if Brown tried to take the cop's gun, a lot of the legal community is now saying that if Brown was fleeing it appears that Brown broke free and was no longer a risk so Brown falls in that "fleeing felon" category of the SCOTUS case. We'll see.


Even if he did, that's such a difficult thing to prove in a physical interaction like that. When you are fighting with someone, you grab at things to get leverage. A holstered gun is GOING to get bumped or even possibly pushed/grabbed without the person actually trying to take the gun.

That's my completely pointless conjecture!
See above. Inside a car, it's going to be hard to reach a holstered gun according to former police chiefs and legal experts weighing in. I guess the story about the holstered gun came from a "friend" of the cop named "Josie" who called a local radio station. So far, we have no official story from the police officer. There were lots of witnesses. The former NYU medical examiner said the Brown family attorneys were going to examine Brown's and the cop's clothes for gun powder residue, and I imagine they were going to fingerprint the cop's gun, as well. Again, a lot of the facts can't be leaked, yet, because the prosecutor has to be very careful to seal the evidence so that the cop gets an unbiased jury and a fair trial.


When you look at the two videos available. Brown's body is laying in the middle of the street nowhere near a police car. Did they move the car? Wouldn't that be tempering with a crime scene?
No, that's where the body remained for four hours. That was one reason why Brown's mother was so upset.

[DigitalChaos]

You could also make some guesses about caliber based on the lack of exit wounds and the fact that cops are generally required to carry light loads, but I have no idea.

[allegro]

There definitely are exit wounds, the family's medical examiner and pathologist pointed them out in their press conference, they used that drawing. The two 'kill shots" in his head (which they said came from behind) had exit points in the front of his head, one came out of his eye.

[Satyr]

You could also make some guesses about caliber based on the lack of exit wounds and the fact that cops are generally required to carry light loads, but I have no idea.

Its a pretty safe bet that the cop had either a Glock or a M&P of the 9mm or .40 variety....either of which the cop would not have emptied his entire magazine.

[Satyr]

There definitely are exit wounds, the family's medical examiner and pathologist pointed them out in their press conference, they used that drawing.

Yeah, I think on the autopsy it said there are reentry wounds.

[allegro]

Here's the press conference, cut to 11:53

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhHhlu-IqVw

[DigitalChaos]

There definitely are exit wounds, the family's medical examiner and pathologist pointed them out in their press conference, they used that drawing.

Yeah, I think on the autopsy it said there are reentry wounds.

That too. The number of exit wounds (or lack of) can point toward calibur.

I honestly didn't look at the autopsy much. As much as I like guns and have researched exactly how to stop a person (vs hollywood misinfo) should I ever need to... that was a person who was shot and killed by a gun. Someone being killed like that creeps me the fuck out.

[Satyr]

Well I'm hearing the gun used was a Sig P229 in .40. Which has a magazine capacity of 10....so if 11 shots were fired the cop emptied his magazine.

[DigitalChaos]

Here's the press conference, cut to 11:53

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhHhlu-IqVw

actually... 16:53, i think

[DigitalChaos]

Well I'm hearing the gun used was a Sig P229 in .40. Which has a magazine capacity of 10....so if 11 shots were fired the cop emptied his magazine.

I'm curious where that info came from.

Also, what is the importance of him dumping his entire mag? People only stop in the movies after 1 or 2 shots. You have to hit the CNS (brain, spine) to get someone to involuntarily stop.

[tony.parente]

I'm curious where that info came from.

Also, what is the importance of him dumping his entire mag? People only stop in the movies after 1 or 2 shots. You have to hit the CNS (brain, spine) to get someone to involuntarily stop.


Pretty much. I THINK that most people agree with the info provided that the 2 "kill shots" in the head were the final shots. You can shoot a guy in the arm 10 times, if a guy wants to keep moving hes going to. That is assuming he was coming after Wilson.

[Satyr]

I'm curious where that info came from.

Also, what is the importance of him dumping his entire mag? People only stop in the movies after 1 or 2 shots. You have to hit the CNS (brain, spine) to get someone to involuntarily stop.

ar15.com has a 400+ page thread on the subject. Also I think people are curious about the pause between shots....6 shots then a pause then 4 more.

[Deepvoid]

Wondering out of the 10-11 bullets fired, which ones are the two kill shots. Someting tells me they weren't #10 & #11.

[Satyr]

Wondering out of the 10-11 bullets fired, which ones are the two kill shots. Someting tells me they weren't #10 & #11.

Why would you speculate that.....? I'd bet the last 2-4 shots in the audio recording were the kill shots.

[tony.parente]

Wondering out of the 10-11 bullets fired, which ones are the two kill shots. Someting tells me they weren't #10 & #11.

If Darren had ANY history of having an individual reprimand or mark against him as an officer I could see how one would be able to get behind that but I don't see why he would shoot a guy twice in the HEAD and then just keep shooting.

[tony.parente]

Oh and theres this.

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/26/black-lawyers-justice-ferguson-class-action-lawsuit/14608251/

[DigitalChaos]

I guess the story about the holstered gun came from a "friend" of the cop named "Josie" who called a local radio station.
jesus fucking christ
This is EXACTLY why I hate when people start proclaiming guilt outside of the courtroom. I hope a video of the event comes out and EVERYONE who prejudged ends up looking like an asshole. And if that doesn't happen, someone should make an equally high-profile "social experiment" that makes the same point.

[DigitalChaos]

Wondering out of the 10-11 bullets fired, which ones are the two kill shots. Someting tells me they weren't #10 & #11.

well, 6 shots hit Brown (as per the autopsy video that allegro posted). The kill shots entered the top of his head. The other shots don't seem to have entered from the top. So... of the shots that hit Brown, it would be the last ones. The fact that Brown was face down on the pavement also backs that up.


As for the pause, it's probably him reassessing the threat. The same thing happened in the video of the St Louis guy who had a knife... granted, "the threat moved" was really gravity in that situation but that's how split second decisions work.

[orestes]

jesus fucking christ
This is EXACTLY why I hate when people start proclaiming guilt outside of the courtroom. I hope a video of the event comes out and EVERYONE who prejudged ends up looking like an asshole. And if that doesn't happen, someone should make an equally high-profile "social experiment" that makes the same point.
Yeah, this story about "Josie" and the fractured eye socket has been proven as bullshit.

[Deepvoid]

well, 6 shots hit Brown (as per the autopsy video that allegro posted). The kill shots entered the top of his head. The other shots don't seem to have entered from the top. So... of the shots that hit Brown, it would be the last ones. The fact that Brown was face down on the pavement also backs that up.


As for the pause, it's probably him reassessing the threat. The same thing happened in the video of the St Louis guy who had a knife... granted, "the threat moved" was really gravity in that situation but that's how split second decisions work.

The pause came in between shot number 6 and 7.

So likely scenario is that he hit him 3 out of the first 6 shots. Paused and reassessed. Fired at least 4 more shots. 3 hits including 2 to the head.
Makes sense?

Officer had a 54% accuracy on this kill. Thank god no one else was hurt.

[tony.parente]

The whole tape is suspect to me only because gunshots were going off and his voice didn't waver a BIT. And it's not like the Ferg is east saint louis and that shit is common or anything.

[Deepvoid]

The whole tape is suspect to me only because gunshots were going off and his voice didn't waver a BIT. And it's not like the Ferg is east saint louis and that shit is common or anything.

Agree the tape could be bogus. I guess we'll know soon enough.
Satyr You're right my comment about the head shots potentially not being the last ones wasn't supported by any information I have read. Shouldn't have written that.

[allegro]

The Brown's medical examiner guy says in that press conference that they can determine how many shots actually hit Brown, which shots grazed him, which single shot killed him, and he indicated that the officer's gun would later determine how many shots were fired (in other words, the officer also could have shot a bunch more and missed). The one shot that killed him hit him in his head, according to the private autopsy. We still do not know the results of the 3rd Fed autopsy (that won't come out until a trial, if there is one). The former medical examiner said Brown's mother wanted to know if her son suffered, and the answer is no because the 2 shots to the head rendered him immediately unconscious.

[allegro]

actually... 16:53, i think
I was aiming for when the former medical examiner guy starts talking, since everything he says is fascinating.

Again, because the prosecuting attorney and Feds will want to protect the cop's right to a fair trial and unbiased jury, no evidence will be leaked. The only stuff we are getting now is from CNN or Fox News.

[tony.parente]

He wasn't shot from the back of the head guys, at least according to the family's autopsy that we're discussing.. Exact transcript from the part of the video where he talks about the entry and exit of the bullets:


"He was shot at least six times, we've got one to the very top of the head, the apex. We've got one that entered just above the right eyebrow. We've got one that entered the top part of the right arm, we've got a graze wound, a superficial graze wound to the middle part of the right arm. We've got a wound that entered the medial aspect of the right arm. We've got a deep graze wound that produced a laceration to the palm of the right hand. These two where the X's are represent what Dr. Baden and I feel are possible re-entry wounds. So the wound that hit the forehead right above the right eyebrow actually came out around the right eye and back in and it exited again right here at the jawline and came back in and went into the right shoulder. Thats for one bullet."

[allegro]

He wasn't shot from the back of the head guys, at least according to the family's autopsy that we're discussing.. Exact transcript from the part of the video where he talks about the entry and exit of the bullets:
Well, that ONE came OUT of his eye, they show that on the picture and explained it in the press conference. There was also something about his height and his bending down. They said that at this point it's hard to tell which direction he was going without seeing the bullets and Xrays, the county's medical examiner took some of the bullets and has the xrays. Go watch the press conference, don't read the transcript. They're pointing at the picture of the body and explaining.

All of this means ZERO, of course. This is just jaw-jacking at this point.

From Newsweek:


Baden also said that Brown would not have survived even if he'd been taken to the hospital immediately. He was also cautious about reading too much into his report. "Right now there is too little information to forensically reconstruct the shooting."

[tony.parente]

Go watch the press conference, don't read the transcript. They're pointing at the picture of the body and explaining.

I watched that press conference live after work the day it happened, and I wrote that transcript myself just now and I watched it again specifically for this purpose. I'm just saying neither bullet came in from the back, they did say he was most likely bent forward or had his head down, that's the only way the bullets could have had the trajectory they did.

Now they DID say one of the bullets that hit his arm could have came from the back, supporting the story that he was hit and turned around.

[DigitalChaos]

This is just jaw-jacking at this point.


I, for one, am enjoying the verbal masturbation of this thread.

[Satyr]

I'll take gangster wannabe get shot but good cop for 1000 Alex.

[allegro]

I, for one, am enjoying the verbal masturbation of this thread.
See this:

http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/18/medical-examiner-fatal-bullet-moved-from-back-to-front-of-browns-head/


The bullet that struck Michael Brown fatally in the head was moving from a back to front direction, and Brown appeared to have fallen straight forward onto the ground after he was shot, one of the medical examiners who conducted an independent autopsy tells The Daily Caller.

“The shot to the head was going downward and slightly back to front,” said Prof. Shawn Parcells in a phone interview, clarifying comments he made shortly after he and Dr. Michael Baden announced Brown’s autopsy results at a press conference on Monday.

“When it entered the top of the head it was going in a slight frontal direction,” Parcells told TheDC.

“When we analyzed it, we concluded it was going forward and it was going slightly towards the eye,” he said, clarifying that the bullet moved from the left of the mid-line of Brown’s head towards his right eye.

The trajectory of the bullet, fired from the gun of Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson, is a crucial piece of information in determining what Brown’s movements were as he was hit with the fatal shot.

Brown’s family and some witnesses claim that he was surrendering with his hands up as Wilson shot him.

“It’s definitely consistent with him bending forward or falling forward,” said Parcells. Brown’s supporters believe that this proves that Wilson fired as Brown was in a state of surrender.

Another witness has claimed that she saw Brown getting down on his knees and holding up his hands in surrender as he was shot.

[DigitalChaos]

See this:

http://dailycaller.com/2014/08/18/medical-examiner-fatal-bullet-moved-from-back-to-front-of-browns-head/

The thing with bullet path is that they don't exactly go in a straight line even when they are in homogenous gelatin. Doubly so for hollow points. Add in clothes, skin, bone, etc... shit gets crazy immediately after the entry wound. That said, there are only a few ways something is going to enter the top of your head.

[ltrandazzo]

The whole tape is suspect to me only because gunshots were going off and his voice didn't waver a BIT. And it's not like the Ferg is east saint louis and that shit is common or anything.

Ummmmmmmmmmm. I need you to stop talking about Ferguson like you live here. Gunshots are common.

[tony.parente]

Ummmmmmmmmmm. I need you to stop talking about Ferguson like you live here. Gunshots are common.

Ok bro, they happen every single day like birds chirping to the point to where it literally doesn't even startle you when you're having a phone conversation.

[orestes]

You are such an asshole.

[tony.parente]

You are such an asshole.
Did slave tell you to say that?

[orestes]

Goodness, no, I don't need anyone to tell me what's already been observed on the board.

[Leviathant]

Seems we've lost the plot. I'll go looking for it, and when I find it, I'll unlock this thread, unless anyone else who's got the key wants to unlock it before me.

[ltrandazzo]

Ok bro, they happen every single day like birds chirping to the point to where it literally doesn't even startle you when you're having a phone conversation.

Actually, they kind of do. Seriously. Where did you go to high school?

[DigitalChaos]

Conservatives discover his music and go for the character assassination because he was racist and enjoyed violence, killing, drugs, and degrading females.
http://buzzpo.com/caution-graphic-post-gentle-giant-mike-brown-liked-drugs-hos-killas-murders/

I don't really see this as a character assassination so much as something that makes Mike Brown even more real and human. I'm also amused at all the words this conservative site failed to transcribe... those poor sheltered idiots.

[DigitalChaos]

unless anyone else who's got the key wants to unlock it before me.
Only because you offered :)
But seriously, this thread has had a lot of great posts. Even tony has changed his perspective.

[DigitalChaos]

Here is Killer Mike being awesome again:

The Sanest Commentator on Ferguson: How About a Rapper Named Killer Mike? (http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/27/the-sanest-commentator-on-ferguson-how-a)

[Satyr]

http://mychal-massie.com/premium/if-whites-were-black-their-murders-would-matter/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=if-whites-were-black-their-murders-would-matter

Really interesting article for anyone that wants to try to pry their mind open for a few minutes.

[Sarah K]

Jesus... Where do you people even find these ridiculous sites?

[Satyr]

Jesus... Where do you people even find these ridiculous sites?

I found the article on ar15.com...I doubt you can call the article writer racist as he is a black man. A lot of people here really can't afford to be as ignorant as they are.

[Sarah K]

Well, I'm not going to google all of those names. But I'll go ahead and assume that none of them were murdered by a police officer while they were unarmed.

JUST A GUESS THOUGH

[Satyr]

Well, I'm not going to google all of those names. But I'll go ahead and assume that none of them were murdered by a police officer while they were unarmed.

JUST A GUESS THOUGH

I'll google it for you.....

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dillon+taylor

[Sarah K]

We already discussed that.

[Satyr]

We already discussed that.

Can you honestly not see a double standard?

Also FYI if Brown was murdered has yet to be determined. He was killed by a police officer. By definition murder is ILLEGAL. The officer the killed Brown has yet to be charged with anything so to say he was murdered is hyperbole at best.

[allegro]

No. We're discussing police shooting unarmed people. Nothing else. That author up there is a moron.

[Satyr]

No. We're discussing police shooting unarmed people. Nothing else. That author up there is a moron.

If its up for debate can you tell me what the author said that is particularly moronic?

[allegro]

The entire article. It is completely unrelated to the topic of this thread.

And it's not up for debate. You're drifting the thread with shit, again, and this thread will get locked.

[Sarah K]

It paints a very good picture as to what happens when a police force responds appropriately towards protests, and doesn't tear gas and shoot them. The SLC force is handling the situation very well. The Ferguson force basically couldn't have handled it any worse than they did.

As far as the point you're attempting to make, if there is a pattern of young white men being regularly killed by police, then I guess we can start comparing the two. But as far as I'm aware, it isn't a thing.

[Satyr]

The entire article.

Can you elaborate? Anything specific? Honestly to say an entire article is moronic without any reason at all is pretty.......

[Sarah K]

I would say that entire site.

[Satyr]

It paints a very good picture as to what happens when a police force responds appropriately towards protests, and doesn't tear gas and shoot them. The SLC force is handling the situation very well. The Ferguson force basically couldn't have handled it any worse than they did.

As far as the point you're attempting to make, if there is a pattern of young white men being regularly killed by police, then I guess we can start comparing the two. But as far as I'm aware, it isn't a thing.

I'm not going to say anything more than its interesting if you look at the recently deceased the media tends to focus on in terms of race. It's a challenge question and I don't think you're capable of grasping the answer.

[allegro]

Astute? Seriously, I'm educated enough not to take your bait, boy.

[Satyr]

Astute? Seriously, I'm educated enough not to take your bait, boy.

Yeah, its hard to ague against facts.....

[allegro]

Don't you have any crosses to burn on some front lawns?

[Sarah K]

If you actually ever presented facts instead of crazy ass conspiracy theories about REVERSE RACISM and stuff like that, we would be able to actually have a discussion with you. But we all know that you're just here to troll. That's why you change the subject with each post.

[Satyr]

Don't you have any crosses to burn on some front lawns?

No....Do you have any other absurd accusations to make of anyone that isn't as racist as you?

[allegro]

You can't even spell "indict."

[Satyr]

If you actually ever presented facts instead of crazy ass conspiracy theories about REVERSE RACISM and stuff like that, we would be able to actually have a discussion with you. But we all know that you're just here to troll. That's why you change the subject with each post.

What did I present that isn't a fact? I'd honestly like to know. Enlighten me please.

[Satyr]

You can't even spell "indict."

You know you're in trouble when they start attacking your spelling instead of the points...

[allegro]

You know you're in trouble when they start attacking your spelling instead of the points...
You have not made one good point. You suck at debate and you can't spell. And you abuse ellipses in posts, clearly another indication of your KKK membership. (*snort*)

[Sarah K]

Have you not read any of the crazy links that you've posted? Haha. None of them are news. They are extreme-right opinion pieces that don't contain facts. They contain emotions and accusations that aren't relevant to what happened.

[Satyr]

Have you not read any of the crazy links that you've posted? Haha. None of them are news. They are extreme-right opinion pieces that don't contain facts. They contain emotions and accusations that aren't relevant to what happened.

Okay....lets debate this fact. White on black violence is paraded in the national media at every opportunity while black on white violence is ignored and not reported on at all because the media is racist.

[Sarah K]

False. Try again!

I gotta go to bed. Try to stick to the topic so that this thread can stay open. It is important.

[allegro]

Okay....lets debate this fact. White on black violence is paraded in the national media at every opportunity while black on white violence is ignored and not reported on at all because the media is racist.
No, let's NOT.

THAT IS DRIFT.

DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS CONCEPT?

THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD HAS BEEN CLEARLY DEFINED. I HAVE ATTEMPTED TO HELP YOU IN THIS REGARD SEVERAL TIMES. YOU DO NOT GET TO CHANGE THE TOPIC.

NOBODY DOES.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO START YOUR OWN THREAD, GO AHEAD.

[Satyr]

No, let's NOT.

THAT IS DRIFT.

DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THIS CONCEPT?

THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD HAS BEEN CLEARLY DEFINED. I HAVE ATTEMPTED TO HELP YOU IN THIS REGARD SEVERAL TIMES. YOU DO NOT GET TO CHANGE THE TOPIC.

NOBODY DOES.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO START YOUR OWN THREAD, GO AHEAD.

This thread is about the events of Ferguson. The OP post seems pretty clear. They didn't say this thread was limited to discussing police shooting unarmed people. I'd suggest that maybe you start your own thread if you'd like to discuss that.

Obviously the events of Ferguson are racially charged. If you cannot handle a discussion about race like an adult, and cannot prevent yourself from caps lock yelling. Perhaps make your own thread that is limited to Police militarization which is what you seem to care about.

[allegro]

We have stated repeatedly (note that the OP hasn't been here since the OP) that this thread is limited to police. You keep attempting to drift it to topics OUTSIDE of the police.

I vote we alert the mods and admins and let them decide, I'll go do that now.

[Satyr]

We have stated repeatedly (note that the OP hasn't been here since the OP) that this thread is limited to police. You keep attempting to drift it to topics OUTSIDE of the police.

I vote we allert the mods and admins and let them decide, I'll go do that now.

Not surprised that you're planning on "allert"ing the mods of my bad spelling. I'm pretty familiar with how much liberals love censorship. Bet we will be seeing more disappearing posts. Nothing to see here.

My opinion is different than yours so your obvious response is immediately start censoring. I haven't said anything that is more rude than you or untrue and you've made it clear you have no interest in actually debating anything.

I really hope you understand there is a massive portion of the country that isn't as blind as you. I'll screencap just to show how much ya'll love censorship which I have no doubt is about to happen. Don't bother defeating me with well argued points. Go cry to mother censorship!

One personal piece of advice. Maybe you should invest in an echochamber?

[allegro]

Yeah but I'm on Tapatalk on an iPhone so at least I have an excuse (alert).

I am not going to debate topics unrelated to this thread, no. I am not going to contribute to drift. That's not censorship, that's general forum decorum. DigitalChaos has taken more in-depth gun discussion to his Gun Rights thread and Libertarian discussion elsewhere, as well.

Edit: censorship. Wtf. Maybe some of us just get sick of fucking drift. Drift is like the fucking ADHD of forums.

[Satyr]

Yeah but I'm on Tapatalk on an iPhone so at least I have an excuse (alert).

I am not going to debate topics unrelated to this thread, no. I am not going to contribute to drift. That's not censorship, that's general forum decorum. DigitalChaos has taken more in-depth gun discussion to his Gun Rights thread and Libertarian discussion elsewhere, as well.

Edit: censorship. Wtf. Maybe some of us just get sick of fucking drift. Drift is like the fucking ADHD of forums.

There isn't a proper smiley to convey how I feel about this post. You can tell yourself that "drift" makes censorship okay. I'll just watch the censors sweep in on what contradicts their views and smile knowingly.

[allegro]

Since the grand jury will be sitting until at least the end of October, probably longer, it seems stupid to even keep this thread unlocked as it just invites this type of senseless drift. Maybe it would get unlocked once the grand jury makes its decision.

Meanwhile, I'll leave you with this Chicagoist piece which explains about faulty comparisons:

http://chicagoist.com/2014/08/23/kass_fuckery.php

[Swykk]

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/ufqeuz/race-off?xrs=synd_facebook_082714_tds_16

Getting it right, as always.

[orestes]

There's a cool ignore button. I suggest everyone use it.

xoxo,
The pinko, commie admins

[orestes]

And it might now seem much, but HealStL, led by Antonio French, has published an amazon wish list.

http://www.amazon.com/registry/wishlist/1T7ZXHGMICEGZ/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_ws_ugR.tb0QVJ81W

[DigitalChaos]

In an attempt to steer things a bit further away from LOCK THIS SHIT UP... here is a great article about the social media stupidity that surrounded Ferguson.

Ferguson Reveals a Twitter Loop (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/fashion/ferguson-reveals-a-twitter-loop.html)


and the real kicker on top of all that: "A survey by Rasmussen Reports nine days after the fatal shooting of Michael Brown found that half of those surveyed had already made up their minds as to who was at fault. By that reckoning, it doesn’t matter what the facts are, people are going to find the tweets that support their viewpoint."




How many of those false stories did you see perpetuated on facebook/twitter?

[r_k_f]

todays fun fact:
"St. Louis city has spent $740,849 for officer and overtime costs in Ferguson. $161,783 equipment purchases. They are billing Missouri."

[DigitalChaos]

Any legal commentary on this?
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/172458-breaking-michael-brown-allegedly-involved-second-degree-murder-case/

I'm guessing the fact that he wasn't convicted says it all. But I don't know if a conviction would be hidden in a juvenile record?...

[r_k_f]

Any legal commentary on this?
http://www.ijreview.com/2014/08/172458-breaking-michael-brown-allegedly-involved-second-degree-murder-case/

I'm guessing the fact that he wasn't convicted says it all. But I don't know if a conviction would be hidden in a juvenile record?...
What would a conviction or non conviction have to do with anything? Seems a bit irrelevant.

[tony.parente]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/28/michael-brown-shooting-audio_n_5733216.html

Looks like the audio may be legitimate friends.

[Satyr]

https://twitter.com/ChuckCJohnson

The reporter that sued for Michael Browns juvenile criminal records claims he is gonna drop a bomb on Sunday.

[orestes]

What would a conviction or non conviction have to do with anything? Seems a bit irrelevant.

It's called character assassination. It's pretty reckless and irresponsible journalism to be reporting allegations of a prior conviction if court records haven't been released.

This thread is starting to veer into Infowars territory.

[Sarah K]

I don't think it's fair to compare a weapons class to sex ed. Sex is an important part of life that everyone will participate in eventually, and they need to be prepared. Guns are not a necessary part of life.

[DigitalChaos]

What would a conviction or non conviction have to do with anything? Seems a bit irrelevant.

Just because you were arrested in relation to a crime doesn't mean you are guilty. With the character assassination attempts on him, I wouldn't be surprised if Brown was arrested due to something like a mistaken identity but the conservative blogs want to run with it anyway.

[tony.parente]

It's called character assassination.
I think you're right, I could see why the defense attorney would try and use that as proof that Mike may have been a bad seed before the incident and try to sway the jury to believe it wouldn't be out of his general character to attack a police officer, but I would NOT be a fan of using that information for that purpose.

It's low hanging fruit and I don't think it really has any relevancy to the case at hand.

[allegro]

Just because you were arrested in relation to a crime doesn't mean you are guilty. With the character assassination attempts on him, I wouldn't be surprised if Brown was arrested due to something like a mistaken identity but the conservative blogs want to run with it anyway.

http://wonkette.com/554062/chuck-c-johnson-is-an-award-winning-journalist


I think you're right, I could see why the defense attorney would try and use that as proof that Mike may have been a bad seed before the incident and try to sway the jury to believe it wouldn't be out of his general character to attack a police officer, but I would NOT be a fan of using that information for that purpose.
You're using incorrect words, here; "defense attorney" and "jury" etc. To date, there is no criminal case, there is no defendant, and the only lawsuit was brought by a "journalist" troll.

[Satyr]

Just because you were arrested in relation to a crime doesn't mean you are guilty. With the character assassination attempts on him, I wouldn't be surprised if Brown was arrested due to something like a mistaken identity but the conservative blogs want to run with it anyway.

I'd be surprised if Brown wasn't arrested while he was a juvenile because he was a violent low life gangster thug....

[orestes]

http://wonkette.com/554062/chuck-c-johnson-is-an-award-winning-journalist


You're using incorrect words, here; "defense attorney" and "jury" etc. To date, there is no criminal case, there is no defendant, and the only lawsuit was brought by a "journalist" troll.
Robert Novak, nuff said.

Excuse me, guys, I need to go update my bio on all social media I use. You see, I'm an award-wining journalist- I got the certificates to prove it! True, they're from high school but let's not split hairs.

[allegro]

Um, I'm assuming you read the above-referenced scathing Wonkette piece? Particularly the link to the Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/charles-johnson-mississippi-senate-race-mcdaniel-cochran-2014-7) piece, wherein several people call him unstable? And probably mental?

[orestes]

Yes, I was being sarcastic. ;)

[DigitalChaos]

San Jose Police Returning Mine-Resistant Armored Truck To Feds Amid Militarization Debate
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/08/29/416281-mrap-san-jose-police-returning-armored-transport-amid-militarization-debate/


woo!

[nobies]

I haven't been on the boards much lately, mostly because of what has been happening in Ferguson, so I'm a bit late to the discussion.

I've been following this entire situation from the beginning to where we are currently. What has been the most shocking thing about this to me is that the truth of what has been actually happening in Ferguson seems to be getting zero play, despite the evidence being right there, right in plain sight, right on Carol Schaeffer's and Mustafa Hussain's livestream pages. What we're witnessing now, firsthand, is how the media crafts a secondhand narrative about the situation, which then inevitably becomes history. Even the Daily Show video, which I applaud, seems to be viewing Ferguson with binoculars from NYC. Even the more liberal news sites seem to only be able to pick up scraps of evidence, despite HOURS of this stuff being available.

So yeah, I'm a little pissed. Every time I read an article about "rioters behind homemade bunkers throwing molotov cocktails", my blood boils, because that shit clearly never happened.

[Dra508]

I haven't been on the boards much lately, mostly because of what has been happening in Ferguson, so I'm a bit late to the discussion.

I've been following this entire situation from the beginning to where we are currently. What has been the most shocking thing about this to me is that the truth of what has been actually happening in Ferguson seems to be getting zero play, despite the evidence being right there, right in plain sight, right on Carol Schaeffer's and Mustafa Hussain's livestream pages. What we're witnessing now, firsthand, is how the media crafts a secondhand narrative about the situation, which then inevitably becomes history. Even the Daily Show video, which I applaud, seems to be viewing Ferguson with binoculars from NYC. Even the more liberal news sites seem to only be able to pick up scraps of evidence, despite HOURS of this stuff being available.

So yeah, I'm a little pissed. Every time I read an article about "rioters behind homemade bunkers throwing molotov cocktails", my blood boils, because that shit clearly never happened.

So, what is it that we all out here on the edge are getting filtered incorrectly? I actually had to explain the arc of this "story" to a friend of mine and spend have the time qualifying it with "what we're hearing".

[DigitalChaos]

I haven't been on the boards much lately, mostly because of what has been happening in Ferguson, so I'm a bit late to the discussion.

I've been following this entire situation from the beginning to where we are currently. What has been the most shocking thing about this to me is that the truth of what has been actually happening in Ferguson seems to be getting zero play, despite the evidence being right there, right in plain sight, right on Carol Schaeffer's and Mustafa Hussain's livestream pages. What we're witnessing now, firsthand, is how the media crafts a secondhand narrative about the situation, which then inevitably becomes history. Even the Daily Show video, which I applaud, seems to be viewing Ferguson with binoculars from NYC. Even the more liberal news sites seem to only be able to pick up scraps of evidence, despite HOURS of this stuff being available.

So yeah, I'm a little pissed. Every time I read an article about "rioters behind homemade bunkers throwing molotov cocktails", my blood boils, because that shit clearly never happened.

The thing is, this is the situation for the vast majority of things covered by the media. Any time I have been relatively close to something that gets covered, I get incredibly pissed with how inaccurately it gets covered. The bigger it is, the worse it gets. Unless you are there yourself, you have to be insanely skeptical to get an accurate picture.


So... mind giving us your perspective? :) Those livestream videos are NOT an accurate/complete source of info though. My post here (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/3407-Ferguson?p=210441#post210441) specifically addresses that by explaining that they are essential "viewing the situation through a straw." The fact that you think the molotov cocktails were made up are also addressed in this post (hint: they aren't (https://twitter.com/PDPJ/status/501719566876037120) made up).

[allegro]

Didn't s/he say "hiding in homemade bunkers throwing molotov cocktails" is made up?

[nobies]

Oh there were definitely molotov cocktails passed out, mostly by white agitators, and it's confirmed that one was thrown on the 13th, but other than that, niente. Another was thrown at a restaurant later in the week but was quickly extinguished. Still not sure why the cops were using an obviously staged molotov in the one "seizure" photograph, but whatever.

Also please explain to me how the livestreams aren't an accurate source of information, considering they're raw sources of footage from the events. They are literally the most reliable source of information from the events, especially when you start watching multiple from the same timeframe.

[ItsJustDave]

"Most reliable" and accurate are not synonyms

[nobies]

Here's the thing, though. From what Ive seen, a few agitators (commies, anarchists) attempted to start things with the cops in a place where they already dont need an excuse to go to war with the entire town. But most mention of the agitators seems to have been ignored.

[DigitalChaos]

Also please explain to me how the livestreams aren't an accurate source of information, considering they're raw sources of footage from the events. They are literally the most reliable source of information from the events, especially when you start watching multiple from the same timeframe.
What Dave said, and for the love of fuck READ: http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/3407-Ferguson?p=210441#post210441

[DigitalChaos]

Here's the thing, though. From what Ive seen, a few agitators (commies, anarchists) attempted to start things with the cops in a place where they already dont need an excuse to go to war with the entire town. But most mention of the agitators seems to have been ignored.
So were these agitators captured in your livestreams? If so, link?

I have no doubt that there may have been some agitators (they exist in almost any protest), but you seem to be pinning anything bad on them without any true support... which is exactly what you are bitching about the media doing.

[nobies]

So were these agitators captured in your livestreams? If so, link?

I have no doubt that there may have been some agitators (they exist in almost any protest), but you seem to be pinning anything bad on them without any true support... which is exactly what you are bitching about the media doing.

http://themissouritorch.com/blog/2014/08/17/meet-greg-joey-johnson-an-opportunistic-communist-revolutionary-agitating-in-ferguson-video/

http://themissouritorch.com/blog/2014/08/19/meet-travis-morales-another-communist-revolutionary-agitating-in-ferguson-video/

https://vine.co/v/M3rvXzaAImd

http://pic.twitter.com/lPd9EYLJ3z

There's a lot more of this. It was mostly a handful of people doing the majority of the agitating, it seems. Antonio French was doing his damnedest to prevent agitators, though since his arrest, he hasn't been giving as much community support.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_9CpfAa5ig

[DigitalChaos]

http://themissouritorch.com/blog/2014/08/17/meet-greg-joey-johnson-an-opportunistic-communist-revolutionary-agitating-in-ferguson-video/

http://themissouritorch.com/blog/2014/08/19/meet-travis-morales-another-communist-revolutionary-agitating-in-ferguson-video/

https://vine.co/v/M3rvXzaAImd

http://pic.twitter.com/lPd9EYLJ3z

There's a lot more of this. It was mostly a handful of people doing the majority of the agitating, it seems. Antonio French was doing his damnedest to prevent agitators, though since his arrest, he hasn't been giving as much community support.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_9CpfAa5ig


lol, i think we saw that douche out here around the SF Bay Area OWS protests. Anytime there is unrest, people try to pull some populist message out to gain members. It always seems to be the communist and "anarchist" groups that instigate violence and property damage... along with random people that simply come to make trouble thinking they won't get caught. That said, I don't see the people you linked to connected to any actual violence in what you showed. There are plenty of pictures of people holding Molotovs and/or trying to light some. They didn't look like anyone you linked to either. It's not like Molotovs were an incredibly common thing here, it was a handful of people.... I just don't think there has been any proof on WHO those people were.

I will also say that I have seen MANY Ferguson people protecting businesses or just trying to get people to chill out. Even the Black Panthers were trying to control things.



edit: hah, i should have finished reading everything. one of your articles mentions him being in the Oakland Occupy protest.

[skip niklas]

"I have highest security clearance and I have a target on my back because I know too much" and "I wouldn't work for Obama because he's undocumented" makes him sound like he's full of caca though.

I don't disagree with you, see my later "dickhead" comment.

[skip niklas]

Facts like the president is an undocumented immigrant?

No, that would be an opinion of his. The facts would be FEMA zoning, centralizing regional forces, REX 84.

[skip niklas]

Yes it does. He obvious does not live in reality. People who believe that shit should not be taken seriously in any context.


I'm sorry, what shit were you referring to?

[Sarah K]

Racism, sexism, truther, etc, etc, etc.

[nobies]

That NYT article is quite frankly, some horseshit. Lot of bad conclusions with no actual argument.

"Oh yeah, actual video footage shot on the ground by multiple people?

Not to be believed."

I need to compile a list of all the various lies that were spun by PD and government officials throughout this ordeal. Like this (https://twitter.com/D_Towski/status/502206584831762433/photo/1)wonderful gem, for instance.

[skip niklas]

When did telling the truth become slanderous?

Edit: Has anyone posted this (http://www.cracked.com/blog/7-wacky-farts-that-can-help-us-understand-ferguson-mo/)article yet?

[DigitalChaos]

Judge Rules White Girl Will Be Tried As Black Adult
http://www.theonion.com/video/judge-rules-white-girl-will-be-tried-as-black-adul,18896/


The onion is pitch perfect sometimes.

[nobies]

http://postracialcomments.tumblr.com/post/96468331565

but don't worry guys, the cops are always right. must be a twitter loop.

[DigitalChaos]

Dude, didn't you hear? Some famous people had their nudes leaked. Nobody cares about the black people in Ferguson anymore.

[allegro]

https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/507211239177879552

Jesus Christ ugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4HUvXOvgkQ

[orestes]

Well, would you look at that. Michael Brown had no felony convictions. (http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/juvenile-court-michael-brown-had-no-felony-convictions-did-not/article_43c9bbbb-356f-5ea6-b9e2-7dde7e3e5c83.html)

[allegro]

Yeah, well, the Ferguson Police were saying that all along, so no surprise, there. They said he had "no criminal record."


But disclosures during and after the hearing on Tuesday put to rest claims by Johnson and others that Brown was facing a murder charge at the time he was shot to death.

Cynthia Harcourt, a lawyer for St. Louis County Juvenile Officer Kip Seely noted that some juvenile records and proceedings are open to the public: those that concern crimes that would be Class A or B felonies if a juvenile had been charged as an adult. But there were none for Brown.

After the hearing, the Post-Dispatch sought out Harcourt to clarify her statement. She told the Post-Dispatch that Brown was not facing any Class A or B charges when he died, either.

edit:

Dude, didn't you hear? Some famous people had their nudes leaked. Nobody cares about the black people in Ferguson anymore.
This really is how this country operates; we have the collective attention span of rats. Actually, I think rats have longer attention spans. It's CNN's fault. For at least one full MONTH, CNN did nothing but search for that Malaysian plane. They had that same "Aviation Expert" reporting on its possible location, they have "wave experts" reporting on wave patterns in various oceans, 24 hours a day, nothing but a missing plane ... until the SECOND another news item came up. Then you never heard another peep about that missing plane.

[allegro]

Hey, CharlesCJohnson, can't you go cover something in Syria? I think you could really get to the bottom of this ISIS thing.

[Satyr]

Hey, CharlesCJohnson, can't you go cover something in Syria? I think you could really get to the bottom of this ISIS thing.

Is making fun of journalists getting decapitated considered cool now?

[Swykk]

Charles C Johnson isn't a journalist. See: aforementioned article.

I know, I know. Don't feed the troll.

[orestes]

Anyways, the Justice Department is launching a separate investigation into the entire Ferguson police force.

[allegro]

Charles C Johnson isn't a journalist. See: aforementioned article.

I know, I know. Don't feed the troll.

I have trolls on ignore, I can't even see their posts.

After seeing that Shaun King's Twitter feed data, whoa, the whole Missouri government should be under investigation!!

[DigitalChaos]

Check out this dude shutting down these shitty cops. They tried to get him to stop video recording and they tried to get in his house without a warrant. Luckily, this guy knew his rights and told them to fuck off with the "stop recording" bit and the "let us search your house without a warrant" and the "show us your ID even though we don't have legal reason for it"

I love seeing this stuff.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZh9xumD1cQ

[DigitalChaos]

Posting that stuff here just because it falls in line with police overreach and the growing ability for people to protect themselves with cameras.

[Swykk]

I have them on ignore as well but it doesn't seem to work as well as I'd like.

I hope the federal investigation yields proper results. I'm still very skeptical.

[redshoewearer]

Check out this dude shutting down these shitty cops. They tried to get him to stop video recording and they tried to get in his house without a warrant. Luckily, this guy knew his rights and told them to fuck off with the "stop recording" bit and the "let us search your house without a warrant" and the "show us your ID even though we don't have legal reason for it"

I love seeing this stuff.



Oh well done! And at they end they just stopped and left. The change in their demeanor when they realized he knew his rights and was keeping calm was pretty striking.

[DigitalChaos]

The "3 forms of ID" thing was probably the only thing that was weird about the video. I have no idea where that comes from but it seems to happen a lot with the "sovereign citizens" movement. I know of no legal requirement that cops have to show 3 forms of ID.


Many police departments are being trained about the right to video record due to the increasing popularity of this. It's really great.


I have dozens of these types of videos if anyone is interested ;) Not all of them turn out as nicely. Many times the cops don't give a shit about the law and will rip the camera out of your hands and/or arrest you for filming them. Some result in some crazy twists though, like a traffic stop that ends with the COP apologizing for for speeding and using his cellphone while driving and using the "I honestly wasn't paying attention" line.

[tony.parente]

Some result in some crazy twists though, like a traffic stop that ends with the COP apologizing for for speeding and using his cellphone while driving and using the "I honestly wasn't paying attention" line.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKUOiZqUD-0

[DigitalChaos]

That's the one!
People give that cop a lot of shit, but if all of them were like that, we would be in a much better place. He actually backed down and admitted he was wrong. Granted, it was only because he was on camera, but that's exactly why we need cameras attached to every cop.

[allegro]

That's the one!
People give that cop a lot of shit, but if all of them were like that, we would be in a much better place. He actually backed down and admitted he was wrong. Granted, it was only because he was on camera, but that's exactly why we need cameras attached to every cop.
You know, that trucker was ABSOLUTELY right. The police are sharing the same space out there. I used to drive 320 miles each way every damned weekend along side those truckers, and that's their life. Some cop speeding on a phone texting? Come on. You're in trucker territory, not cop territory. Don't risk the truckers' lives. They often PROTECTED mine.

[tony.parente]

In a weird "silver lining" (if you could even say that) this Ferguson situation is shining a large spotlight on police misconduct in this nation. Mike Brown is FAR from a martyr but I feel his death may end up snowballing into something that might actually spark some change in the few dirty cops out there. The times of the cops word over yours is quickly coming to an end, and that's good news for EVERYONE.

[Swykk]

http://www.newsweek.com/ferguson-slapped-40-million-civil-rights-lawsuit-267452

Predictably, this is happening. Probably won't be the last, either and good for them.

[DigitalChaos]

In a weird "silver lining" (if you could even say that) this Ferguson situation is shining a large spotlight on police misconduct in this nation. Mike Brown is FAR from a martyr but I feel his death may end up snowballing into something that might actually spark some change in the few dirty cops out there. The times of the cops word over yours is quickly coming to an end, and that's good news for EVERYONE.
It's so much better now. I used to get so much shit for "only doing this to make cop's lives harder" and all that bullshit. Now people GET it.

Also, it doesn't even have to be like that. You can hold your legal boundaries and still have consensual interactions with police. I'll never get a chance to share this picture on ETS, so I might as well. I had 5 cops come to my door and ask if they could come in and talk (this has actually happened more than once). My answer is always along the lines of "do you have a warrant? No? OK, well let's talk outside." They were a bit taken back, but quickly understand that I was more than willing to help as long as they respected MY boundaries. In short, they wanted some security footage that I had. If they were going to be dicks, I'd have told them to get a subpoena for it. But they weren't and everyone was happy working outside my front door.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/170901/securitytime.jpg

and this is my "security selfie"

[tony.parente]

“I wish someone would pull a Ferguson on them and take them out. I hate looking at those African monkeys at work … I enjoy arresting those thugs with their saggy pants.”
“They are nothing but a bunch of monkeys.”

http://theadvocate.com/home/10181682-123/brpd-cop-accused-of-sending


Yeah you can't do that.

[jessamineny]

I'd prefer: "Yeah, you can't be like that."

[tony.parente]

I'd prefer: "Yeah, you can't be like that."

It's amazing how people actually have a mentality like that, they actually think those thoughts in a non-comical, non-ironic way. It's crazy.

[Satyr]

“I wish someone would pull a Ferguson on them and take them out. I hate looking at those African monkeys at work … I enjoy arresting those thugs with their saggy pants.”
“They are nothing but a bunch of monkeys.”

http://theadvocate.com/home/10181682-123/brpd-cop-accused-of-sending


Yeah you can't do that.

Texts sent to a "girl, a friend". She's obviously not into you bro.

[DigitalChaos]

Multiple shootings in NM. Cops were wearing lapel cams. No video available from any cops involved for either incident.
http://www.koat.com/news/apd-shooting-no-video-from-officer-cameras/27849714#!bOZXmt

[tony.parente]

http://i.imgur.com/JxShNA6.jpg

[Sarah K]

That was almost a year and a half ago.

Also, it is a sad state of affairs when we have to post pictures of cops actually doing their jobs in an attempt to prove some type of point. :/

We all know that there are cops who are actually in that line of work for the correct reasons. But there are also a good chunk who are involved for all of the wrong reasons, and it's been spreading like crazy lately, for whatever reason.

I'm hopeful that the wearing of cameras will alleviate some of this shit happening in the first place, or will lead to people being dismissed in a timely fashion. I read that select cops in NYC are now wearing cameras on some sort of trial run. When they all have to start wearing them, that will provide some interesting footage!

Cops are there to "protect" us. But I think they just make most people pretty nervous anymore. It's always a game of Russian Roulette. You never know what the fuck you're going to get when dealing with the police.

[tony.parente]

That was almost a year and a half ago.

It was probably expired milk.

[DigitalChaos]

SarahK beat me to it. While delivering milk isn't the job of police, they should be acting as part of the community and going out of their way to be nice. This kind of thing shouldn't be so uncommon that it is news worthy. When you are massively inconveniencing everyone with a lockdown... delivering milk is probably the least you could do. I'd personally prefer to get my own milk and they can stuff the lockdown and mandatory searches up their ass. Milk doesn't make that shit ok.

[DigitalChaos]

and since we are doing images from 2013, I give you this awesome 4th amendment flowchart. It was written and illustrated by Nathaniel Burney, a criminal defense attorney in NYC. It's in his book The Illustrated Guide to Criminal Law (http://www.amazon.com/The-Illustrated-Guide-Criminal-Law/dp/1598391836/). More over at his site: http://lawcomic.net/


http://i.imgur.com/0tWmWwm.png
http://i.imgur.com/0dX1KTm.png
http://i.imgur.com/J69EdjF.png
http://i.imgur.com/15LosqW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9QImadz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oTEBx7r.jpg

[tony.parente]

Holy shit that was awesome.

[DigitalChaos]

Holy shit that was awesome.

it looks like an abortion for anyone viewing on mobile (sorry guys!) but I really liked it. After browsing his site a bit I came across a "think of the children" shirt. The store's subtext for the shirt: "Politicians promise to over-react if you'll just re-elect them. From the "overcriminalization" chapter. Or, you know, yesterday's newspaper." Yea, quickly purchased his book after that :) I can only imagine the stuff this guy goes through dealing with that crap in NYC.

[Deepvoid]

Speaking of police misconduct, the NYPD settled a case for $33k after mistaking Jolly Ranchers for meth.

http://youtu.be/TS6bkHOWSKY?list=UU1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ

[DigitalChaos]

Bronx police brutality situation. The DA has refused to prosecute the "disorderly conduct and resisting arrest" charges.
http://7online.com/news/exclusive-bronx-man-claims-police-brutality-caught-on-camera/296032/

[DigitalChaos]

Note to self: fuck NY

[Satyr]

Bronx police brutality situation. The DA has refused to prosecute the "disorderly conduct and resisting arrest" charges.
http://7online.com/news/exclusive-bronx-man-claims-police-brutality-caught-on-camera/296032/

I guess the lesson we are sending is that if you resist arrest you might win the lottery:D

[skip niklas]

I guess the lesson we are sending is that if you resist arrest you might win the lottery:D


Or your family might, because you'll probably be dead.

[Sarah K]

I'm telling you that the cops here are just an organized crime ring. Haha.

"Stop and Frisk" is one of the most incredibly fucked up things of all time. I really don't understand how it is legal.

[tony.parente]

I guess the lesson we are sending is that if you resist arrest you might win the lottery:D
Right or wrong don't resist arrest, take that fight up in court yo.

[Sarah K]

Yeah, fuck that. I would resist if I was being arrested for no reason, too.

There was a video not long ago of a man on the subway who got arrested because he fell asleep.

The problem isn't people resisting. The problem is police not being properly trained on how to do their jobs. Because guess what? They wouldn't be resisting if the police were doing their jobs correctly.

When people remove the blame from where it belongs - the woefully under-trained police force, and shift it to the victims, they are participating in victim blaming. It's stupid and wrong. A person shouldn't have to go to court because someone else isn't capable of doing their job correctly. I really don't understand how anyone can advocate for Stop and Frisk. It blows my fucking mind.

[Sarah K]

Also, I wonder if there will ever be time where we oh, I dunno... Attempt to assist people with sever mental disorders, instead of lock them away?

http://gothamist.com/2014/09/11/rikers_prisoner_death.php

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/11/nyregion/family-of-mentally-ill-rikers-inmate-sues-new-york-city-over-his-death.html?_r=0

[tony.parente]

Yeah, fuck that. I would resist if I was being arrested for no reason, too.

All resisting arrest is going to do is put your well being/any chance at fighting the case in jeopardy IMO

If you're getting arrested for no reason and you AND the cop knows you're right, resisting is just going to give them even more of an excuse to make sure you have a bad time. Gotta protect yourself the best you can.

[Sarah K]

Stop blaming the victims, and advocate for a higher level of training for the people who are supposed to be protecting us.

Continuing to give cops free reign to do whatever they want isn't going to fix anything. It hasn't worked out yet, so I don't see that changing any time soon. They need to be properly trained, and show competence for making decisions under pressure.

The court systems in this country are NOTORIOUSLY corrupt, and are EXTREMELY lenient when it comes to current or former cops.

[tony.parente]

I am absolutely not blaming the victims, if anything I was defending them and supporting their ability to fight against corrupt police activities. If you're stopped for walking while black, get arrested for bullshit trumped up charges and while getting cuffed you twist and run...you're gunna have a hard time fighting the case. That's really all I was trying to get across.

[Deepvoid]

New video emerged in the Brown case. CNN exclusive.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/10/us/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-witnesses/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[Swykk]

I saw this earlier. CNN are drawing lots of conclusions from this, but the two guys who were by the truck both said he had his hands up. The other guy interviewed later, who lived nearby, didn't say that but also wasn't as close and admitted he didn't get outside in time to see everything.
I still think this was a murder by cop, as I've said from the start, and the evidence thus far supports as much. In a place KNOWN for racist dealings/good ol cops club, Brown mouths off after being told by Wilson to get out of the street (or whatever he said), Brown takes off after being pursued/told to stop FROM WILSON'S CAR, Wilson hunts down Brown and ultimately kills him. Maybe there was an altercation in between but I doubt it because the police would've eagerly released that info if it had actually happened. You don't try and apprehend a suspect (and what was he suspected of? Being a smart ass isn't a crime) from your car! The supposed "robbery" does not factor in here (boy did that fall apart fast).
I've been watching this thread but sort of holding out for more actual evidence to come out. I'm concerned, as are others, that this will become another case where the cop gets away clean (Rodney King, as @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) mentioned before).

[DigitalChaos]

Stop blaming the victims, and advocate for a higher level of training for the people who are supposed to be protecting us.

Continuing to give cops free reign to do whatever they want isn't going to fix anything. It hasn't worked out yet, so I don't see that changing any time soon. They need to be properly trained, and show competence for making decisions under pressure.

The court systems in this country are NOTORIOUSLY corrupt, and are EXTREMELY lenient when it comes to current or former cops.

How are you going to advocate for better training when the general population isn't aware of their basic rights and basic legal protections? That comes first. THEN people will realize how many rights are being violated. THEN they will ask for cops to fix their shit.

As for the corrupt court situation, that is why people (especially people of color) should record every police interaction with video. There is an increasing amount of court cases that have been swayed because of video, even if it is video of the cop forcing them to stop (infringement on 1st amendment). And if you REALLY want to help change things, record every police situation you happen to see. The more common this becomes, the less corrupt shit they will get away with.

So yes, learn you damn rights! Learn that you don't resist arrest (except for very very specific situations.. usually involving threat to life) and the place to resist an arrest is in court.

[allegro]

How are you going to advocate for better training when the general population isn't aware of their basic rights and basic legal protections? That comes first. THEN people will realize how many rights are being violated. THEN they will ask for cops to fix their shit.

As for the corrupt court situation, that is why people (especially people of color) should record every police interaction with video. There is an increasing amount of court cases that have been swayed because of video, even if it is video of the cop forcing them to stop (infringement on 1st amendment). And if you REALLY want to help change things, record every police situation you happen to see. The more common this becomes, the less corrupt shit they will get away with.

So yes, learn you damn rights! Learn that you don't resist arrest (except for very very specific situations.. usually involving threat to life) and the place to resist an arrest is in court.

Court. Right. There's a novel concept. A lot of these arrested people are waiting forever in jail for an arraignment date. There are currently 300 people in Cook Count Jail who've been waiting five years for a trial. So much for their constitutional right to a speedy trial. Court. Such a nice white liberal utopia idea of criminal law. Oh and God forbid you're broke and need a public defender and can't afford the fee (http://www.npr.org/2014/05/29/316735545/why-your-right-to-a-public-defender-may-come-with-a-fee). But there's always court. They'll help you. Just let the master put the chains on you and take you up town, boy. Fighting it will just make it harder on ya, boy.

Here's a novel concept: Don't arrest without probable cause. This won't waste millions in taxpayer dollars, it won't violate people's civil rights, and it won't bog down the court system and the jail system with a bunch of useless shit.

[DigitalChaos]

Court. Right. There's a novel concept. A lot of these arrested people are waiting forever in jail for an arraignment date. There are currently 300 people in Cook Count Jail who've been waiting five years for a trial. So much for their constitutional right to a speedy trial. Court. Such a nice white liberal utopia idea of criminal law. Oh and God forbid you're broke and need a public defender and can't afford the fee (http://www.npr.org/2014/05/29/316735545/why-your-right-to-a-public-defender-may-come-with-a-fee). But there's always court. They'll help you. Just let the master put the chains on you and take you up town, boy. Fighting it will just make it harder on ya, boy.

Here's a novel concept: Don't arrest without probable cause. This won't waste millions in taxpayer dollars, it won't violate people's civil rights, and it won't bog down the court system and the jail system with a bunch of useless shit.


So who is going to tell them that if all the tax payers are too uninformed to do it?

What does resisting arrest do to help the situation?

[Swykk]

@DigitalChaos (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=598) I see your point but @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) is more correct. You cannot depend on the court system anymore, if there was even a time where we could. As for recording every police interaction? I'm totally with you on that one.

There needs to be a change, an overhaul, in how we select, train and monitor police.

[DigitalChaos]

@DigitalChaos (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=598) I see your point but @allegro (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) is more correct. You cannot depend on the court system anymore, if there was even a time where we could. As for recording every police interaction? I'm totally with you on that one.

There needs to be a change, an overhaul, in how we select, train and monitor police.

You know what is better than court? Not going there because you didn't give up your rights. I'm willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of people waiting in jail are there because they incriminated themselves by failing to exercise things as basic as their 4th and 5th amendment rights.

[DigitalChaos]

There needs to be a change, an overhaul, in how we select, train and monitor police.

I am ALL about this. But I've been wanting this for fucking ever. Nobody gives a shit. This was predominantly a "silly libertarian" cause until ferguson. Everyone will quickly forget and go back to the same old bullshit. Most already have.

Ask anyone who suddenly started caring about the police to articulate a reason why the situation is a problem and what they want to see changed. Most can't produce anything close to accurate. If you think Ferguson is enough to open everyone's eyes enough to prompt change, I'd love to hear your reasoning.

[DigitalChaos]

Speaking of which, there was this awesome video that was making the rounds back on July 4 weekend about how some of us wish police stops (specifically boarder checkpoints) would go.
I think those in this thread will enjoy it :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB_l6sLxNj4

[Swykk]

I think if we've learned anything, it's that most don't give a fuck unless it's a reality show or game. There was (and continues to be) a very real dumbing down/cater to the lowest common denominator of people culture in this country combined with constant fear bombardment by the media.
But here is the biggest problem:
It kind of doesn't even matter if we want changes made, there's no reason for them to change a thing. Some think gun rights are of grave importance so "we can defend ourselves when the government (or anything) goes too far!" And I'm not the first one to say this but facts are, they have drones and tanks, for starters. They have more and better guns. Police have tanks now! Why?! Not to protect us. The corporations that run this country now and yes, it is an oligarchy, are lots of awful things but they're not stupid. They don't want us to even think about holding them accountable. So they bought Congress, among other entities.
We don't get to win. It's depressing.
You can't even work within the system anymore to make it better. Even if the smarter folks had the numbers, and they don't, they're outspent before it even gets to a point where they're outgunned as well.
Here's another scenario, say none of the above is true (cue up a Tony or Satyr post I won't read). Very very few with the brains, conscience, and stable mental health want to be cops! Doing the job properly is tough, no doubt and the pay isn't enough to justify it in most places, so it's like the military where it's predominantly people who didn't do well in high school, couldn't or didn't want to go to college, come from a lower economic class, not the most even tempered/level headed people. Those who end up in higher positions still are mostly pushing fucking quotas (yes, they do in fact exist) to gain the funding they want/need.
I don't have answers...but goddammit I still care and get pissed at these things.

[allegro]

You know what is better than court? Not going there because you didn't give up your rights. I'm willing to bet that the overwhelming majority of people waiting in jail are there because they incriminated themselves by failing to exercise things as basic as their 4th and 5th amendment rights.
oh, really? (http://www.wbez.org/news/researchers-release-study-chicago-police-department-corruption-104984). Interesting (http://lawreport.org/ViewStory.aspx?StoryID=2366). Just that simple, eh? (http://cir.ca/news/chicago-prison-frees-innocent-man). Gee, justice always prevails, Andy (http://illinoiscat.org/2010/08/06/%E2%80%9Cpartial-justice%E2%80%9D-coalition-calls-for-further-action-after-burge-guilty-verdict/). Now, THIS kid was smart, Opie! (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-torture-sliced-shoes-met-20140727-story.html#page=1)

[DigitalChaos]

oh, really? (http://www.wbez.org/news/researchers-release-study-chicago-police-department-corruption-104984). Interesting (http://lawreport.org/ViewStory.aspx?StoryID=2366). Just that simple, eh? (http://cir.ca/news/chicago-prison-frees-innocent-man). Gee, justice always prevails, Andy (http://illinoiscat.org/2010/08/06/%E2%80%9Cpartial-justice%E2%80%9D-coalition-calls-for-further-action-after-burge-guilty-verdict/). Now, THIS kid was smart, Opie! (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-torture-sliced-shoes-met-20140727-story.html#page=1)

None of this disproves what you quoted. I never once said that cops aren't corrupt and that enforcement isn't broken. I said fixing it is not possible with an uninformed populace. You damn well know that the majority of people get themselves in trouble by not knowing their rights. That's not the kind of populace that makes for an educated democracy (yet another liberal idea to add to your list).

What do you get when you can't have a healthy democracy?

[DigitalChaos]

I think if we've learned anything, it's that most don't give a fuck unless it's a reality show or game. There was (and continues to be) a very real dumbing down/cater to the lowest common denominator of people culture in this country combined with constant fear bombardment by the media.
But here is the biggest problem:
It kind of doesn't even matter if we want changes made, there's no reason for them to change a thing. Some think gun rights are of grave importance so "we can defend ourselves when the government (or anything) goes too far!" And I'm not the first one to say this but facts are, they have drones and tanks, for starters. They have more and better guns. Police have tanks now! Why?! Not to protect us. The corporations that run this country now and yes, it is an oligarchy, are lots of awful things but they're not stupid. They don't want us to even think about holding them accountable. So they bought Congress, among other entities.
We don't get to win. It's depressing.
You can't even work within the system anymore to make it better. Even if the smarter folks had the numbers, and they don't, they're outspent before it even gets to a point where they're outgunned as well.
Here's another scenario, say none of the above is true (cue up a Tony or Satyr post I won't read). Very very few with the brains, conscience, and stable mental health want to be cops! Doing the job properly is tough, no doubt and the pay isn't enough to justify it in most places, so it's like the military where it's predominantly people who didn't do well in high school, couldn't or didn't want to go to college, come from a lower economic class, not the most even tempered/level headed people. Those who end up in higher positions still are mostly pushing fucking quotas (yes, they do in fact exist) to gain the funding they want/need.
I don't have answers...but goddammit I still care and get pissed at these things.

Guns vs tanks thing has been covered many times. It's just wrong. Someone with a basic understanding of war history or tactics will know this. Hell, just look at how long we have been failing to deal with the severely outgunned al quaeda.

I disagree that people have as little power over their local government as they do over federal. Local municipalities are even closer and even more susceptible to the citizen demands. When they get resources from the fed, that's when it starts fucking things over. But, you have to use that power. You have to vote. You have to participate in your local meetings. How many people sitting in jail have ever done that? How many people who only bitch about police after ferguson have done that? They don't. They just keep paying their taxes and letting someone else figure it out. We are now a country of "someone else will figure it out"

[allegro]

None of this disproves what you quoted. I never once said that cops aren't corrupt and that enforcement isn't broken. I said fixing it is not possible with an uninformed populace. You damn well know that the majority of people get themselves in trouble by not knowing their rights.

No, you're not living in the same world with the same criminal court system as me. You are naive and think people who are informed of their rights magically get better court treatment. And that's a fucking load of shit. You obviously know nothing but internet words related to the criminal court system; you know zero about the reality. Your cavalier, whitebread comment about the men rotting in jail waiting for trial is naive and stupid. Those men are rotting in jail due to BACKLOG, TOO MANY CASES, NOT ENOUGH PUBLIC DEFENDERS, LOST PAPERWORK, RED TAPE, AND PUBLIC APATHY BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT RICH OR IMPORTANT. Jailhouse lawyers (inmates who've studied up on the law) probably told them all about their rights, but that don't fucking help them. And white uppermiddle class asses like you blaming the inmates for "not knowing their rights" (lol) ain't helping, either. The City, the public, the taxpayers, the POPULACE here knows about it. The Cook County President has stated it's deplorable and needs to be fixed. The ACLU and human rights watch groups have stepped in because this is a violation of constitutional and civil rights. Yet, there it remains. Overcrowding, a log-jammed overtaxed system. Created by TOO MANY ARRESTS. And you think they GOT in jail simply by giving up their rights by resisting arrest? You are living in a whitebread alternative universe.

[allegro]

I suggest you actually READ THESE ARTICLES. ALL OF THEM.


http://www.suntimes.com/news/crime/20320674-418/time-stands-still-in-cook-county-jail-for-some-inmates.html

http://www.wbez.org/news/cook-county-you-can-be-found-not-guilty-and-still-go-back-jail-108758

http://www.illinoisherald.com/articles/2013/q4/cook-county-jail-crisis-point/

http://www.suffredin.org/news/newsitem.asp?language=english&newsitemid=515

http://m.chicagoreader.com/chicago/cook-county-officials-fight-over-jail-crowding/Content?oid=12195364

[Satyr]

I suggest you actually READ THESE ARTICLES. ALL OF THEM.


http://www.suntimes.com/news/crime/20320674-418/time-stands-still-in-cook-county-jail-for-some-inmates.html

http://www.wbez.org/news/cook-county-you-can-be-found-not-guilty-and-still-go-back-jail-108758

http://www.illinoisherald.com/articles/2013/q4/cook-county-jail-crisis-point/

http://www.suffredin.org/news/newsitem.asp?language=english&newsitemid=515

http://m.chicagoreader.com/chicago/cook-county-officials-fight-over-jail-crowding/Content?oid=12195364

Also watch this video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhAZlj1xRLo

[allegro]

Also watch this video!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhAZlj1xRLo


Lol that's funny. And true.

[DigitalChaos]

No, you're not living in the same world with the same criminal court system as me. You are naive and think people who are informed of their rights magically get better court treatment. And that's a fucking load of shit. You obviously know nothing but internet words related to the criminal court system; you know zero about the reality. Your cavalier, whitebread comment about the men rotting in jail waiting for trial is naive and stupid. Those men are rotting in jail due to BACKLOG, TOO MANY CASES, NOT ENOUGH PUBLIC DEFENDERS, LOST PAPERWORK, RED TAPE, AND PUBLIC APATHY BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT RICH OR IMPORTANT. Jailhouse lawyers (inmates who've studied up on the law) probably told them all about their rights, but that don't fucking help them. And white uppermiddle class asses like you blaming the inmates for "not knowing their rights" (lol) ain't helping, either. The City, the public, the taxpayers, the POPULACE here knows about it. The Cook County President has stated it's deplorable and needs to be fixed. The ACLU and human rights watch groups have stepped in because this is a violation of constitutional and civil rights. Yet, there it remains. Overcrowding, a log-jammed overtaxed system. Created by TOO MANY ARRESTS. And you think they GOT in jail simply by giving up their rights by resisting arrest? You are living in a whitebread alternative universe.
No shit it's not going to help people who are already arrested. The point is to not get arrested in the first place.

Also, I'm pretty sure Cook County isn't representative of the entire country. EVERYTHING about Chicago is broken and corrupt as fuck. Again, knowing your rights is going to have limited impact against a corrupt system.

I'm not saying Chicago doesn't exist. I'm not saying various types of corruption don't exist in various PD's across the country. I'm saying people aren't educated enough about fundamental rights that are taught in middleschool Civics classes. This was part of the larger picture of people not even realizing that most PD's across the country attempt to get you to violate your own rights, they are becoming excessively militarized, etc.

For example, look at the Boston police presence when they were searching for the bombers. Heavily armed and searching every house without a warrant. Most of the citizens let them in because they felt they had to. It was later revealed that there were many examples of searches without consent. Of the entire country watching, VERY few people had issues with this. It was the same kind of mentality we saw in this country immediately after 9/11. Those that did have issues with it were marginalized as tin foil at types. It should be an embarrassment that people like Alex Jones were the leading media commentary on that.

[DigitalChaos]

Another problem that has yet to be discussed here is the growing practice of civil forfeiture. Your shit can legally be taken even though you haven't been charged with a crime.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865610518/A-cause-for-concern-if-civil-forfeiture-goes-unchecked.html

[allegro]

No shit it's not going to help people who are already arrested. The point is to not get arrested in the first place.

Also, I'm pretty sure Cook County isn't representative of the entire country. EVERYTHING about Chicago is broken and corrupt as fuck. Again, knowing your rights is going to have limited impact against a corrupt system.
OR A RACIST SYSTEM. STOP AND FRISK (NY, not Chicago, which started this conversation) is based on RACIAL PROFILING, NOT PROBABLE CAUSE. Often, they'll arrest just to book 'em, print 'em, and get 'em "in the system" WITH NO PROBABLE CAUSE. Rights? What rights? Now they have an arrest record. Sometimes, the cops will say "STOP RESISTING" when there is zero resisting happening. How are you "pretty sure" that Cook County is so special? Like how Ferguson is so special? The problem IN THIS COUNTRY is not just corruption:


"As I've said before, the jail is the intersection of racism and poverty."—Cook County board president Toni Preckwinkle

Criminal courts and jails are overtaxed across this country. How much time have you spent in a major criminal court system? A medium one? Did you read that NPR article I linked, above, about the public defender program problems?

[DigitalChaos]

OR A RACIST SYSTEM. STOP AND FRISK (which started this conversation) is based on RACIAL PROFILING, NOT PROBABLE CAUSE. Often, they'll arrest just to book 'em, print 'em, and get 'em "in the system" WITH NO PROBABLE CAUSE. Rights? What rights? Now they have an arrest record. Sometimes, the cops will say "STOP RESISTING" when there is zero resisting happening. How are you "pretty sure" that Cook County is so special? Like how Ferguson is so special? Criminal courts and jails are overtaxed across this country. How much time have you spent in a major criminal court system? A medium one? Did you read that NPR article I linked, above, about the public defender program problems?

Stop And Frisk is horrible and it has a lot of pissed off people fighting it. But weren't you actually justifying (a few weeks ago) that kind of rights infringement as a means to clean up a city? I think it was specific to NY a few decades ago.

I'm not seeing an NPR article on my mobile client. I was bitching about how under respected and under paid public defenders were a few months ago. That's just wrong considering how they are a huge pillar of our justice system. That's ANOTHER thing that very few people recognize and therefore we won't see any change.

[allegro]

I don't disagree that the situation in Boston post-marathon bombing was ridiculous. But I mentioned that about 8 pages ago, and many citizens DID complain. Just like many citizens complain about the draconian TSA (I *hate* them) but are generally helpess to do anything about it without being seen as ISIS members because so many Americans drank the theater of bullshit security Kool Aid.

[allegro]

Public defender - you quoted my post in your post #430. But you didn't read my link.

Stop and Frisk worked in the 70s when NYC was a fucking cesspool of crime everywhere. You had probable cause, then, 'cause 80% of the people on the streets were criminals. It ain't the fucking 70s, anymore.

[DigitalChaos]

Swykk - if people can prompt this kind of thing at the national level, they sure can do it at the more local levels: http://www.hbindependent.com/news/la-na-ferguson-military-20140910,0,5518981.story
It'll be difficult in the areas that have handed over many of their rights to the government and let the power corrupt and grow (Chicago, NYC, LA, Oakland, etc) but that is a different, yet similar, issue.

[DigitalChaos]

Public defender - you quoted my post in your post #430. But you didn't read my link.



Oh, from yesterday. Yea, it connects to the underfunding problem. I did not know the specifics listed in that article, but I think better funding would still fix it. Stop gearing up police and instead give resources to the public defenders.
One of the other potential benefits of increasing pay for them is that it costs the state more every time they prosecute people. MAYBE it will lead to a reduction in prosecutions that do nothing to benefit the tax payers. The way things are going, it would just result in more backlog though.

[DigitalChaos]

As for the TSA, they absolutely fall into the same category. There is actually an interesting story forming about a hilarious TSA fail from a few days ago. They supposedly didn't properly screen him even though he was flagged for advanced screening. So, they approached him AFTER he got off the plane and tried to do the search. (Wtf!?!?!)
Anyway, he busted out the camera and was all "my rights" and walked the fuck out despite TSA threats.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvT7i78Aq9U

[DigitalChaos]

Here is the story in that. I helped get this one out. He media started trying to cover this as "a Somalian snuck through 3 layers of airport security" when absolutely no part of that is accurate. Watching the media spread false info seriously pisses me off.
http://benswann.com/tsa-tries-to-pat-down-man-after-his-flight-watch-him-refuse/

[tony.parente]

You guy's will like this.
http://mic.com/articles/98826/lapd-confuses-black-actress-kissing-white-husband-for-prostitute

[miss k bee]

You guy's will like this.
http://mic.com/articles/98826/lapd-confuses-black-actress-kissing-white-husband-for-prostitute

Wtf America? *Runs to look to check date on calendar is 2014*

[DigitalChaos]

You guy's will like this.
http://mic.com/articles/98826/lapd-confuses-black-actress-kissing-white-husband-for-prostitute


According to the witness, they were fucking in the car.
http://www.tmz.com/2014/09/15/django-actress-daniele-watts-lapd-race-card-fame-audio/

we've learned witnesses from the nearby Directors Guild office building told cops they were watching her and her BF have full-on sex in the passenger seat with the door open. ... One eyewitness told cops they cleaned themselves up afterward with a tissue.
The fact that she instantly pulls the race card and then starts trying to leverage celeb status, tells me she might not be the most mature and reliable individual. Not that TMZ is exactly reliable.

That said, if the cop truly had probably cause, he had a right to arrest her. He didn't arrest her for it. He detained her for not producing ID. Then he let her go. If they were fucking in a car and he had enough proof to qualify as probable cause, she should have been arrested.

meanwhile, we have shitty news sources like CNN acting like everyone has to LEGALLY hand over their ID anytime a cop asks for it.. what a bunch of bullshit http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/15/showbiz/django-unchained-actress-detained/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[DigitalChaos]

Now, you want a more fucked up story?
Cops beat and essentially kidnapped a 12 year old girl, outside her home, because they thought she was a prostitute.
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cops-beat-kidnap-12-yo-girl-front-home-claiming-prostitute/

[Sarah K]

http://www.flexyourrights.org/

Has this been posted?

[tony.parente]

http://www.flexyourrights.org/

Has this been posted?

I LOVE this site, but I don't think I could stop laughing if I saw someone wearing one of those tshirts...or who owned one of those DVDs.

http://flexyourrights-org.myshopify.com/

[Hazekiah]

^ I'd DEFINITELY wear this one...


http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0156/3974/products/consent-front-aa_large.jpg?v=1354731852



...despite what little good it would actually do for me.

:-\

[DigitalChaos]

I have a similar message on some of my computing devices, courtesy of the EFF and ACLU. It's not any sort of legal protection, just a statement :)

[DigitalChaos]

Chicago group looking to go to the UN to present human rights violations of the Chicago PD.

http://www.youcaring.com/other/we-charge-genocide-delegation-to-the-united-nations/228121

[tony.parente]

^ I'd DEFINITELY wear this one...


http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0156/3974/products/consent-front-aa_large.jpg?v=1354731852



...despite what little good it would actually do for me.

:-\

You're way too cool of a person to wear a shirt like that, same goes with DigitalChaos. That's some straight fedora tier shit.

[Hazekiah]

Haha, thanks...but I'd still wear it anyway.

Thought a few of you might enjoy this as much as I did, btw...




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlY9C6pzxKc

[DigitalChaos]

REALLY good article
Ferguson’s massive cover-up: How police departments are protecting Michael Brown’s killer
http://www.salon.com/2014/09/14/fergusons_massive_cover_up_how_police_departments_ are_protecting_michael_browns_killer/

The Ferguson PD seem to have broken many laws surrounding the handling of the shooting. They have also been breaking many laws surrounding the records requests of the shooting. A single person has managed to reveal quite a bit of corruption.



Hidden in the meat of the article are these great bits about how this guy thinks of things:

“We cannot wait for ‘leaders’ to do the job for us. In fact that notion of leadership–or authority–is part of the problem that got us here in the first place,” Grapski told Salon. “We all must ‘lead’ as citizens–which is the highest office in a democratic society.”
...
Grapski’s big-picture view is clear. “We must become fully committed to becoming ACTIVE Citizens once again within a democratic society and with a democratic form of governance,” he told Salon in a followup email. “Democracy is still ‘self-governance’ even when we add to it mechanisms of representation or delegation of authority. The ultimate responsibility still lies with the Citizens to be the driving force in society. Those other ‘official’ actors are not the leaders of our society/nation — but the means whereby the Citizens themselves direct our present and shape our future.”

[DigitalChaos]

A Half Dozen Laser Sights on his Chest, Still this Guy Asserts His Rights
http://www.punkrocklibertarians.com/half-dozen-laser-sights-chest-still-guy-asserts-rights/

This guy was targeted because he matched the wonderful description of being "black with a beard." Luckily he had a good neighbor who recorded the whole thing. Asshole cops pointing their guns at random neighbors. Seems the police captain tried intimidating this guy into not filing a report.

[DigitalChaos]

You're way too cool of a person to wear a shirt like that, same goes with @DigitalChaos (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=598). That's some straight fedora tier shit.
You should see some of the shit I have... As someone who feels they were born with an insufficient number of middle fingers, it's hard for me not to find reasons to procure additional ones.

I REALLY want this:
http://i.imgur.com/zAOoRuc.jpg

[Hazekiah]

^ I had a friend who had one of those, except it was BRIGHT yellow-orange and had bigger lettering...kinda like a caution sign.

It was the first thing I thought of when the link to those shirts was posted, lol.

And his landlord HATED it kept harassing him to get him to remove it from the porch until one day it disappeared. So my pal went to his landlord's unit and asked if he knew where it was and the guy played dumb but then my pal reminded him that he'd written several "memos" about it and that he could use them as evidence to have his landlord's apartment searched for the stolen property.

I was never too sure about all that but the next day it DID magically re-appear on the porch. Always thought that was pretty epic, lol. After that my pal used some kind of adhesive and nails and it remains there to this day.

Definitely looking forward to getting one myself eventually!

Also...


After the officers actually double-check with their caller and verify Demetrice’s full identity, they announced to him that “we are satisfied that you are not the guy we are looking for, if you would like to go back into your apartment you can. If you would like to come out here for your safety, which is why we are here, you are welcome to come out, OK?

To which he responded “The only thing that I am worried about is pigs killing black people!"

Hahaha...LOVE IT.

[Satyr]

http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/if-officer-wilson-not-indicted-mcculloch-vows-release-grand-jury-transcripts-recordings


If the St. Louis County grand jury fails to indict Officer Darren Wilson, Prosecuting Attorney Bob McCulloch will immediately release full transcripts and audio recordings of the grand jury proceedings, his spokesman said Tuesday.

Ed Magee, McCulloch’s executive assistant, said in an interview that the prosecutor has not yet decided whether the names of the witnesses would be released along with their testimony. "I know we will be releasing the transcriptions of the testimony...I don’t know about the names yet; we’re not sure how that is going to work.”

So all will become transparent probably in January. Probably a good move by McCulloch. Should help to prevent accusations of bias.

[allegro]

Note that the prosecuting attorney(s) don't need the grand jury to prosecute, either; they can choose to go ahead and indict, anyway.

[Satyr]

Note that the prosecuting attorney(s) don't need the grand jury to prosecute, either; they can choose to go ahead and indict, anyway.

I'm assuming this is more of a sign that they're not going to prosecute/indict. We'll see if I get a told ya so in a few months.

I doubt any attorney with half a brain wants to be prosecuting a case that will probably turn out like the circus that the Zimmerman trial was.

[allegro]

I don't think we can fairly compare it to Zimmerman; Zimmerman was a private citizen, not a police officer. Police officers are held to a different standard, and have to follow different rules. Plus, there were different laws in the State of Florida than in the State of Missouri relating to private citizens. This case already has SCOTUS rules relating to police officers, etc.

In this case, there appears to be a lot of rules being broken by the police department, here, as far as reports that were to be filed by the officer, the officer's supervisor, the department, etc., regarding standard paperwork that's required to be filed by law, etc. Seems like there has been a lot of buried or missing evidence, here, that's more like a giant stupid fuckup like the OJ case than with the Zimmerman case. And if the prosecutors don't be really careful to handle this right, this could cause a nationwide uproar. The prosecutor has to be REALLY careful in how they handle this, especially since DOJ, ACLU and every other police-watching organization is involved, here. The prosecutor may be forced to indict due to public demand.

And, if the prosecutor doesn't indict, the prosecutor could then be on the unemployment line. And the next (elected) prosecutor could indict.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/judge-extends-grand-jury-ferguson-case-25537685

[Satyr]

I don't think we can fairly compare it to Zimmerman; Zimmerman was a private citizen, not a police officer. Police officers are held to a different standard, and have to follow different rules. Plus, there were different laws in the State of Florida than in the State of Missouri relating to private citizens. This case already has SCOTUS rules relating to police officers, etc.

In this case, there appears to be a lot of rules being broken by the police department, here, as far as reports that were to be filed by the officer, the officer's supervisor, the department, etc., regarding standard paperwork that's required to be filed by law, etc. Seems like there has been a lot of buried or missing evidence, here, that's more like a giant stupid fuckup like the OJ case than with the Zimmerman case. And if the prosecutors don't be really careful to handle this right, this could cause a nationwide uproar. The prosecutor has to be REALLY careful in how they handle this, especially since DOJ, ACLU and every other police-watching organization is involved, here. The prosecutor may be forced to indict due to public demand.

And, if the prosecutor doesn't indict, the prosecutor could then be on the unemployment line. And the next (elected) prosecutor could indict.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/judge-extends-grand-jury-ferguson-case-25537685

Yeah....I'm gonna hold my breath and reserve my "told-ya-so".

I do find the lynch mob mentality particularly ironic though.

[allegro]

Yeah....I'm gonna hold my breath and reserve my "told-ya-so".

All's I'm gonna say is that if there is no indictment, obviously there is going to be a giant controversy. Deservedly so. Indictment isn't THAT big of a deal. Indictment isn't a conviction. Indictment means something APPEARS to have been done improperly. And then all of the evidence is presented at trial before a jury of the cop's peers. And if he is found to have done everything in accordance with the laws of the state and the government, he is acquitted. But, he wasn't even indicted. A person was KILLED, here. He's DEAD. The prosecutor, who has been an elected official for 2 decades and has several family members in law enforcement, took the easy way out and did the grand jury route and now legal experts are saying he's doing an even bigger injustice by bombarding the grand jury with too much information with zero direction. So he's putting his finger on the "no indictment" side of the scale. But, trust me, this won't be the end of it. The court of public opinion will weigh heavily on the police not being able to shoot anybody they want, even the biggest unarmed thug on the planet, without at least giving a public explanation as to why and how, in detail, and citing legal text as to how that cop's action was supported. So far, the police force has batted zero.

Sometimes justice delayed doesn't mean justice will be denied (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/02/national/02till.html?_r=0).

And protesters at city counsel meetings is not "lynch mob" mentality. You do know what the origin of a "lynch mob" is, right? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching)

A police officer shooting and killing an unarmed person without the police officer's commanding officer issuing written records or a formal explanation is not normal. It does not appear to be legal according to the laws of that city or state according to the legal experts who have weighed in. The police department did not publish the results of any investigation, blaming the DOJ which is apparently untrue and unfounded. To the public, this is a cover-up of the shooting of an unarmed person which is of course unacceptable. This is not a "lynch mob" mentality; this is the public demanding accountability against militancy. This isn't an unusual thing, this happens in cities across the country. This is a form of "checks and balances" which is necessary to keep police corruption in check. The public demanding justice is not a "lynch mob." Nor is it "ironic."

See this article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/current-law-gives-police-wide-latitude-to-use-deadly-force/2014/08/28/768090c4-2d64-11e4-994d-202962a9150c_story.html


The first of the Supreme Court rulings that still govern law enforcement policies nationwide on the use of deadly force is Tennessee v. Garner. In the 1985 case, the court concluded that police officers could not shoot at a fleeing suspect simply to prevent their escape. They could shoot, however, if they had probable cause to believe the person was a violent felon and posed a significant threat of death or serious harm to the community.

The more overarching decision is the 1989 Graham v. Connor ruling, written by Chief Justice William Rehnquist and at a time when violence against police was rising amid a crack epidemic. In that case, Charlotte diabetic Dethorne Graham had rushed into a convenience store to get orange juice to stop an oncoming insulin attack but left the juice inside and left suddenly because of the long line. He asked a friend who had driven him to the store to instead drive him to another friend’s house for food.

Charlotte city police officer M.S. Connor, suspicious at Graham’s hasty exit, followed him and his friend, stopped them for questioning and didn’t believe Graham’s story about being diabetic. As Connor was checking by radio with the store, Graham got out of his car and passed out briefly. Backup officers arrived, told Graham to shut up and rammed his head into a patrol car while throwing him in the back of it.

Graham sustained minor injuries and argued that the officer’s use of force was excessive. But the Supreme Court found that the officer’s actions were justified because he reasonably believed the force he was using was necessary to prevent or detect a crime in progress.

Edward “Woody” Connette, the lawyer who represented Graham, is still troubled by the broad standard that endorsed police using “outrageous” force with an ill man.

“Somehow there ought to be a higher standard for deadly force,” Connette said. “But I just don’t think it’s possible with the courts we have.”

“The difficult thing is the application of the standard by a jury,” Connette said. “In most parts of the country, unless it’s a minority community or a highly-militarized area, juries tend to identify with police officers. They are our protectors. They are us.”

The county prosecuting attorney who is handling the Michael Brown case, Robert McCulloch, has been widely criticized for his pro-police positions over the years and some of his decisions.

Protests erupted in 2001 when McCulloch concluded two police officers did nothing wrong in another officer-related shooting in the highly segregated north St. Louis County. The drug officers from Dellwood had shot two unarmed black men 21 times behind a Jack in the Box during a botched drug arrest.

The officers initially said the suspects, who had previously been convicted of drug and assault felonies, had tried to escape arrest and then drove toward the officers. But a later federal probe found the men were unarmed and their car had not moved when the police began shooting, killing both suspects.

McCulloch infuriated residents by saying of the suspects, “These guys were bums.” He also drew their ire when he declined to release surveillance tapes of the shooting and other details of his probe.

The National Police Accountability Project has urged police departments to train officers on how to de-escalate a confrontation and consider non-deadly force alternatives whenever possible. The advocacy group also urges that officers get more training in how to assess the actual risks and consider if a person may be acting oddly because they are dazed, in medical distress, mentally-ill or are a non-English speaker.

[Satyr]

All's I'm gonna say is that if there is no indictment, obviously there is going to be a giant controversy. Deservedly so. Indictment isn't THAT big of a deal. Indictment isn't a conviction. Indictment means some APPEARS to have been done improperly. And then all of the evidence is presented at trial before a jury of the cop's peers. And if he is found to have done everything in accordance with the laws of the state and the government, he is acquitted. But, he wasn't even indicted. A person was KILLED, here. He's DEAD. The prosecutor, who has been an elected official for 2 decades and has several family members in law enforcement, took the easy way out and did the grand jury route and now legal experts are saying he's doing an even bigger injustice by bombarding the grand jury with too much information with zero direction. So he's putting his finger on the "no indictment" side of the scale. But, trust me, this won't be the end of it. The court of public opinion will weigh heavily on the police not being able to shoot anybody they want, even the biggest unarmed thug on the planet, without at least giving a public explanation as to why and how, in detail, and citing legal text as to how that cop's action was supported. So far, the police force has batted zero.

Sometimes justice delayed doesn't mean justice will be denied (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/02/national/02till.html?_r=0).

And protesters at city counsel meetings is not "lynch mob" mentality. You do know what the origin of a "lynch mob" is, right? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching)

A police officer shooting and killing an unarmed person without the police officer's commanding officer issuing written records or a formal explanation is not normal. It does not appear to be legal according to the laws of that city or state according to the legal experts who have weighed in. The police department did not publish the results of any investigation, blaming the DOJ which is apparently untrue and unfounded. To the public, this is a cover-up of the shooting of an unarmed person which is of course unacceptable. This is not a "lynch mob" mentality; this is the public demanding accountability against militancy. This isn't an unusual thing, this happens in cities across the country. This is a form of "checks and balances" which is necessary to keep police corruption in check. The public demanding justice is not a "lynch mob." Nor is it "ironic."

See this article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/current-law-gives-police-wide-latitude-to-use-deadly-force/2014/08/28/768090c4-2d64-11e4-994d-202962a9150c_story.html

I'm gonna hold my breath till the Officer doesn't get charged with anything because its blatantly obvious he did nothing wrong.

[allegro]

Here are the rules in Missouri (note First "AND" Second" not First "OR" Second and also note last sentence of final paragraph and remember that Brown's body was found 35 feet from the police vehicle), currently, subject to further case law that might arise from this incident (this case could ultimately revise Missouri law as being unconstitutional because it gives police too much power):

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HEYudHHOWceqtwIAm0v9OsvdbTm5H8NqlebZyy8dgY=w668-h322-no

[nobies]

He's trolling hard. Let him be. There's a pretty obvious web of lies surrounding everything about the case.

[allegro]

Yeah, duly noted. He's back on ignore. That's a nifty little feature of this new forum.

[Sarah K]

Heh.

https://scontent-a-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10603255_10152678612819255_8517631154768734736_n.p ng?oh=c7bf7e939be5657429a2a45ad8ad1cf6&oe=548347B1

[DigitalChaos]

I do find the lynch mob mentality particularly ironic though.
Yea, cause watching a mob act like judge and jury is kinda fucked up... especially when the problem started because the cop basically did the same thing.


its blatantly obvious he did nothing wrong.

either one of these statements was intended to be sarcastic, or you don't see the hypocrisy?

[allegro]

By the way, just so people know this, the FBI has a Color of Law (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/color_of_law) page with information:


Color of Law Abuses

U.S. law enforcement officers and other officials like judges, prosecutors, and security guards have been given tremendous power by local, state, and federal government agencies—authority they must have to enforce the law and ensure justice in our country. These powers include the authority to detain and arrest suspects, to search and seize property, to bring criminal charges, to make rulings in court, and to use deadly force in certain situations.

Preventing abuse of this authority, however, is equally necessary to the health of our nation’s democracy. That’s why it’s a federal crime for anyone acting under “color of law” willfully to deprive or conspire to deprive a person of a right protected by the Constitution or U.S. law. “Color of law” simply means that the person is using authority given to him or her by a local, state, or federal government agency.

The FBI is the lead federal agency for investigating color of law abuses, which include acts carried out by government officials operating both within and beyond the limits of their lawful authority. Off-duty conduct may be covered if the perpetrator asserted his or her official status in some way.

During 2012, 42 percent of the FBI’s total civil rights caseload involved color of law issues—there were 380 color of law cases opened during the year. Most of the cases involved crimes that fell into into five broad areas:

Excessive force;
Sexual assaults;
False arrest and fabrication of evidence;
Deprivation of property; and
Failure to keep from harm.

Excessive force: In making arrests, maintaining order, and defending life, law enforcement officers are allowed to use whatever force is “reasonably” necessary. The breadth and scope of the use of force is vast—from just the physical presence of the officer…to the use of deadly force. Violations of federal law occur when it can be shown that the force used was willfully “unreasonable” or “excessive.”

Sexual assaults by officials acting under color of law can happen in jails, during traffic stops, or in other settings where officials might use their position of authority to coerce an individual into sexual compliance. The compliance is generally gained because of a threat of an official action against the person if he or she doesn’t comply.

False arrest and fabrication of evidence: The Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution guarantees the right against unreasonable searches or seizures. A law enforcement official using authority provided under the color of law is allowed to stop individuals and, under certain circumstances, to search them and retain their property. It is in the abuse of that discretionary power—such as an unlawful detention or illegal confiscation of property—that a violation of a person’s civil rights may occur.

Fabricating evidence against or falsely arresting an individual also violates the color of law statute, taking away the person’s rights of due process and unreasonable seizure. In the case of deprivation of property, the color of law statute would be violated by unlawfully obtaining or maintaining a person’s property, which oversteps or misapplies the official’s authority.

The Fourteenth Amendment secures the right to due process; the Eighth Amendment prohibits the use of cruel and unusual punishment. During an arrest or detention, these rights can be violated by the use of force amounting to punishment (summary judgment). The person accused of a crime must be allowed the opportunity to have a trial and should not be subjected to punishment without having been afforded the opportunity of the legal process.

Failure to keep from harm: The public counts on its law enforcement officials to protect local communities. If it’s shown that an official willfully failed to keep an individual from harm, that official could be in violation of the color of law statute.

Filing a Complaint

To file a color of law complaint, contact your local FBI office by telephone, in writing, or in person. The following information should be provided:

All identifying information for the victim(s);
As much identifying information as possible for the subject(s), including position, rank, and agency employed;
Date and time of incident;
Location of incident;
Names, addresses, and telephone numbers of any witness(es);
A complete chronology of events; and
Any report numbers and charges with respect to the incident.
You may also contact the United States Attorney’s Office in your district or send a written complaint to:

Assistant Attorney General
Civil Rights Division
Criminal Section
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, Northwest
Washington, DC 20530

FBI investigations vary in length. Once our investigation is complete, we forward the findings to the U.S. Attorney’s Office within the local jurisdiction and to the U.S. Department of Justice in Washington, D.C., which decide whether or not to proceed toward prosecution and handle any prosecutions that follow.

Civil Applications

Title 42, U.S.C., Section 14141 makes it unlawful for state or local law enforcement agencies to allow officers to engage in a pattern or practice of conduct that deprives persons of rights protected by the Constitution or U.S. laws. This law, commonly referred to as the Police Misconduct Statute, gives the Department of Justice authority to seek civil remedies in cases where law enforcement agencies have policies or practices that foster a pattern of misconduct by employees. This action is directed against an agency, not against individual officers. The types of issues which may initiate a pattern and practice investigation include:

Lack of supervision/monitoring of officers’ actions;
Lack of justification or reporting by officers on incidents involving the use of force;
Lack of, or improper training of, officers; and
Citizen complaint processes that treat complainants as adversaries.
Under Title 42, U.S.C., Section 1997, the Department of Justice has the ability to initiate civil actions against mental hospitals, retardation facilities, jails, prisons, nursing homes, and juvenile detention facilities when there are allegations of systemic derivations of the constitutional rights of institutionalized persons.

Report Civil Rights Violations

File a Report with Your Local FBI Office (http://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field)
File a Report over Our Internet Tip Line (http://tips.fbi.gov/)
Visit Our Victim Assistance Site (http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/victim_assistance)

Resources

Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law Statute (http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/federal-statutes#section242)
Principles for Promoting Police Integrity (pdf) (http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojp/186189.pdf)
Addressing Police Misconduct (http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/spl/documents/polmis.php)

[Satyr]

Yea, cause watching a mob act like judge and jury is kinda fucked up... especially when the problem started because the cop basically did the same thing.



either one of these statements was intended to be sarcastic, or you don't see the hypocrisy?

I'm mostly playing Devil's advocate. Most people around here are assuming the officer is guilty...So I'm assuming he is innocent.

The facts will come out and I'll get my told-ya-so.

[DigitalChaos]

It's very interesting to hear the reactions from pro-union absolutists on this one. My opinion hasn't changed. The participation (or non participation) in a Union AND the employment of them should be voluntary. The public has the right to say that they don't want unions on the services they fund.


Why Oakland Can't Fire Bad Cops
http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/why-oakland-cant-fire-bad-cops/Content?oid=4074076&showFullText=true

"Some observers of OPD say the OPOA's collective bargaining agreement, which gives the police union the power to choose arbitrators for each case, is also a major roadblock to disciplining officers. "That's not going away: Collective bargaining agreements are pretty standard now for police contracts," Burris said, noting that civil rights attorneys in other cities have commiserated with him about law enforcement's ability to select labor arbitrators and the resulting difficulty in upholding discipline and terminations."

[allegro]

My husband so pissed off about this, it's unbelievable (http://www.businessinsider.com/police-officer-will-not-be-charged-in-killing-of-napster-executive-2014-8). Seriously, what the fuck.

[DigitalChaos]

My husband so pissed off about this, it's unbelievable (http://www.businessinsider.com/police-officer-will-not-be-charged-in-killing-of-napster-executive-2014-8). Seriously, what the fuck.
It's incredibly fucked up, but at the same time there are so many things that cops are allowed to do that others cannot (that I do not agree with either). There just hasn't been a cultural campaign to make "only the police should text and drive" sound sane the way say.... "only the police should have guns" sounds to quite a few people. On the other end of that, we are at the peak of the "txting kills" campaign. Would there be as much outrage over a cop who was distracted while adjusting his radio to call in for the same purpose?

[nobies]

https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/4306a8be4531067e4e95a55597ebe6a1/tumblr_ncczpexw9m1qaf2nxo4_500.png


https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/d3f4db08f6bc6147f965bebd16be4ed9/tumblr_nccwphVKcR1tclrz3o1_500.jpg

The official police line is that they "tried and failed" to fight the fire. Understandable. It might've taken two, possibly even three buckets of water to extinguish.

[Sarah K]

If you don't want to get raped by cops, don't get pulled over.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/23/oklahoma-police-rape_n_5870752.html

""He says the best tip that he can give is to follow the law in the first place so you don’t get pulled over,” the anchor added."

[Amaro]

Beavercreek, OH Wal-Mart police shooting. Police not indicted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9FtNOV6Qhk

From court: http://wdtn.com/2014/09/24/video-walmart-grand-jury-announcement-in-its-entirety/

[Sarah K]

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/exclusive-pregnant-woman-thrown-nypd-article-1.1950499

NYPD throws a very visibly pregnant woman onto the ground - belly first.

[Halo Infinity]

Since this is also a general topic on police misconduct, I thought that these articles from Maddox would be worth sharing.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=copflipped

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=copharass

http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=message_to_cops

As for my own experience, I don't think I've ever encountered any trouble with the cops. I don't drive, nor do I go out at night, or stay out too long when it gets dark, nor do I linger outdoors. In most cases, I'm indoors whenever it's dark. I'm very quiet and keep to myself and just carry my ID whenever I go outside, and always make sure to keep it in my wallet and in my pocket.

This isn't to say that I deny the bad sides of cops at all even though I thankfully never encountered it in real life, which is why I try to be silent and maintain my composure around them as much as possible while being very diplomatic, formal, cooperative and courteous, since the mere thought of being arrested/ticketed for no reason scares the hell out of me. (Which also includes little things like jaywalking, and it adds to the reasons why I just keep moving on, and try as much as possible to never loiter.) I've sometimes watched videos on YouTube concerning police brutality and power trips before, and they were obviously very disturbing and horrifying.

-Edit-

I also remembered to include the following.

http://www.copblock.org/

https://www.facebook.com/CopBlock

https://twitter.com/CopBlock

[DigitalChaos]

What. the. FUCK?!

Cop asks guy for his license, guy reaches into his car for the license, cop shoots the guy for reaching for his license.

http://www.wltx.com/story/news/local/2014/09/24/video-released-released-of-trooper-involved-shooting/16187305/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XFYTtgZAlE

[Sarah K]

At a gas station. Nothing could possibly go wrong there.

[tony.parente]

That cop fucked up big time. Wtf was he thinking?

[Satyr]

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/brooklyn/exclusive-pregnant-woman-thrown-nypd-article-1.1950499

NYPD throws a very visibly pregnant woman onto the ground - belly first.

What are police supposed to do when they are arresting a criminal and the criminals mother physically intervenes?

[Swykk]

A tad bit late on the "apology" there, chief. Mismanaged from the fucking start.
I just still have this terrible feeling Wilson is going to get away with it. The prosecutor? The multiple bullshit stories from the police? I know, this has all been well tread ground by myself and others here but I can't shake the feeling that the frat will always protect their own, not us. This is how it is. It's what they do.

[Sarah K]

What are police supposed to do when they are arresting a criminal and the criminals mother physically intervenes?

Use deescalation techniques to diffuse the situation, while ensuring that all involved are safe.

[tony.parente]

The verdict should be released in January. Hopefully it's in the middle of a blizzard so that the local businesses will be safe.

[Satyr]

Use deescalation techniques to diffuse the situation, while ensuring that all involved are safe.

I'm trained in deescalation techniques and its not always possible. Sometimes the only option is to tackle the person and hold them down. Being pregnant doesn't mean you can do whatever you want...

[Sarah K]

Sure, it isn't always possible. But violence was not yet necessary in that situation.

[Satyr]

Sure, it isn't always possible. But violence was not yet necessary in that situation.

I'll assume that you're sure of that because you were there:mad:

[Sarah K]

Yes. I was standing right beside you.

However, I DO have experience in working with extremely violent individuals. If cops don't have a basic handle on deescalation techniques instead of adding fuel to the fire, they need retrained.