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dissi
05-07-2014, 02:39 PM
just saw the setlist from yesterday in riga, the start of the uk/eu-tour:

setlist:

"Pinion / The Eater of Dreams
Copy of A
1,000,000
Terrible Lie
March of the Pigs
Piggy
The Frail
The Wretched
The Becoming
Gave Up
Closer
Find My Way
Me, I'm Not
Came Back Haunted
The Great Destroyer
Eraser
Wish
Burn
The Hand That Feeds
Head Like a Hole
Hurt"

i am looking forward to see nin in berlin next week.
it will be my seventh nine inch nails-concert i am attending since 1999.

but actually i am kinda disappointed with this setlist because it turns out to be another "greatest hits"-tour once again.

i remember the last "comeback" in 2005, saw nin in berlin and in france ("eurockennes festival") that year and as far as i remember the setlist had far more "with teeth"-tracks on it than now with "hesitation marks".

there are so many "new" songs i would like to see live.
frankly i do not really care that much about "wish", "burn", "piggy" or "the hand that feeds" anymore. i still like the synths of "thtf" but the song is pretty silly.

i really enjoyed "hesitation marks" in terms of a different nin-flavour. now it seems it is going to be the same stuff all over again.

well... i gladly paid more than 50 euros for one ticket and i hope they might play a pretty different playlist since it is the first standalone-concert in germany since years (2007, am i right?) and the only one this year (besides the festival "rock am ring").

Sarah K
05-07-2014, 02:44 PM
http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/2442-Nine-Inch-Nails-2014-Tour-Discussion-Speculation

sheepdean
05-07-2014, 02:51 PM
I always feel the same way: there's thousands of people in every crowd who've never seen NIN before. Play the classics with some deep cuts, not all deep cuts just to fuck the fans. There's 6 singles in that entire set, for many bands that's low.

m15a
05-07-2014, 02:58 PM
I always feel the same way: there's thousands of people in every crowd who've never seen NIN before. Play the classics with some deep cuts, not all deep cuts just to fuck the fans. There's 6 singles in that entire set, for many bands that's low.

What are you counting as singles?

sheepdean
05-07-2014, 03:02 PM
...Songs released as a single?
MotP
Closer
CBH
THTF
HLAH
Hurt

slave2thewage
05-07-2014, 03:04 PM
Goes up if you count promo singles, though. Wish, Copy of A, Burn etc.

m15a
05-07-2014, 03:07 PM
...Songs released as a single?
MotP
Closer
CBH
THTF
HLAH
Hurt

Yeah. What are you counting as songs released as singles? (Songs with videos, songs with Halos, songs with promo releases, songs with radio play?)

dissi
05-07-2014, 03:12 PM
as i said: "greatest hits"

sheepdean
05-07-2014, 03:13 PM
Something that was commercially available to the public as a standalone release. If I only counted halos, there'd be 4 after all.

kleiner
05-07-2014, 03:13 PM
. . . i hope they might play a pretty different playlist since it is the first standalone-concert in germany since years (2007, am i right?) and the only one this year (besides the festival "rock am ring").

Since it's the first in that long, doesn't it make sense to do a bunch of the better known tracks with deeper cuts sprinkled in? If in the past 7 years since the date you mentioned, they've gained any new fans in Germany, then all of those are fans who have never seen any of these songs live before. Even for long-time fans, it's been 5 years since they last played there whatsoever, so any setlist should be "fresh" in a way, since there's literally no way you've gotten to see it recently at all.

Besides, I wouldn't call Me, I'm Not or The Great Destroyer greatest hits whatsoever, and TGD is a pretty recent staple. They brought back The Becoming and Eraser for the first time since the NIN rezzurection, and this was the first date of the tour, which traditionally has always been more "standard" so to speak.

Oh and also, I want to clarify that I do agree that a setlist with less singles/staples would be nice, but ultimately that's just a part of how this works for almost any band out there, and NIN is still more diverse/changing live than a lot of other established acts.

sheepdean
05-07-2014, 03:14 PM
I mean, NIN's biggest hits are probably like, Only, The Perfect Drug, Closer, THTF and WITT. If he doesn't play TPD and WITT, it's not a greatest hits set, simple as that.

witte
05-07-2014, 03:16 PM
I unfacepalmed...

I understand your point.

I agree about Wish, HLAH, CBH, Only and more of that....
My wishlist would only contain songs with more caliber. But he needs to satisfied a bride tast.

Anyway, I'm happy the show is well balanced musically and visually.

Sarah K
05-07-2014, 03:17 PM
as i said: "greatest hits"

So like... What do you expect to be played at a concert?

As has been stated time and time again, we are basically the 1% of NIN fandom. If Trent caters to what WE would like to hear, he will go broke with the quickness. He's has to put asses in seats, so to speak.

slave2thewage
05-07-2014, 03:27 PM
I wouldn't worry too much. I saw them in Dublin in 2007, which was pretty much just singles/well-well known tracks + No You Don't, and it was a great show.

billpulsipher
05-07-2014, 03:33 PM
wish they would play Everything and Kinda, I Want To on this tour *fingers crossed*

cahernandez
05-07-2014, 03:38 PM
So like... What do you expect to be played at a concert?

As has been stated time and time again, we are basically the 1% of NIN fandom. If Trent caters to what WE would like to hear, he will go broke with the quickness. He's has to put asses in seats, so to speak.

If I was a European fan (and I'm not) and for a standalone concert, I would expect to see a 35-40% Greatest Hits setlist + 40-50% Hesitation Marks + 10-20% deep cuts. This is for a standalone concert during the Hesitation Marks promotional run. For a European festival, yeah, I'd expect the setlist that was played in Riga yesterday. I think we're underestimating the "average fan" (whatever the hell this means) that goes to a NIN concert today. Yeah, some of them (maybe most of them) will not be wanting to hear a deep-cuts heavy concert, but I bet a lot of them would want to hear a bigger portion of the new record, given that this is the tour for said record.

The Riga setlist only has 3 Hesitation Marks songs out of 19, 15%. I'd personally like to hear more HM in a standalone concert.

dissi
05-07-2014, 03:39 PM
some of your answers are a bit depressing.
of course i am interested in trent putting asses in seats but i also thought when nin wove goodbye it was about not wanting to repeat itself in an endless loop.
the only thing i was whining about was that i'd like to have far more "hesitation marks" on the setlist (like "i would for you", "various methods of escape").
should be easy to skip some old stuff instead.

slave2thewage
05-07-2014, 03:40 PM
wish they would play Everything and Kinda, I Want To on this tour *fingers crossed*
I'd actually love to hear those two tracks, not trolling or anything. Everything to replace 1,000,000.

m15a
05-07-2014, 03:41 PM
Something that was commercially available to the public as a standalone release. If I only counted halos, there'd be 4 after all.

I guess I'm not understanding your definition. Like, why Hurt and not Piggy (released as a promo and on FDTS) or Burn (promo and video) or Copy of A (released as a digital single) or Wish (promo and video)? Guess what I'm getting at is that there aren't many singles in the set list because it's hard to define what are NIN singles and that's different from what are NIN hits or NIN classics anyway.


the only thing i was whining about was that i'd like to have far more "hesitation marks" on the setlist (like "i would for you", "various methods of escape"). should be easy to skip some old stuff instead.

This is totally reasonable, but you should have posted your opinion in the "Nine Inch Nails - 2014 Tour Discussion/Speculation" thread. If you read through some of that thread, you'd realize that there are people that agree with you and could have just said your opinion in a sentence or two.

sheepdean
05-07-2014, 03:47 PM
Having a video doesn't make it a single, and being a promo doesn't make it a single, no matter what. If you do include singles, sure there's more, but you could play a true greatest hits show with this as your setlist http://www.ninwiki.com/The_Definitive_NIN_-_The_Singles

Basically, fuck it. He's not playing for people who've seen NIN ten times this tour, he's not playing for people who lament that one song has been played 74 times whilst another only 73, he's playing to make a good, enjoyable show. And if you claim you didn't love hearing Closer, Hurt, THTF or Terrible Lie for the first time when you saw them live, you're a fucking liar.

WorzelG
05-07-2014, 03:48 PM
some of your answers are a bit depressing.
of course i am interested in trent putting asses in seats but i also thought when nin wove goodbye it was about not wanting to repeat itself in an endless loop.
the only thing i was whining about was that i'd like to have far more "hesitation marks" on the setlist (like "i would for you", "various methods of escape").
should be easy to skip some old stuff instead.
Yeah I want more of the new album too, but I think we're jumping the gun here as Riga is somewhere they've never played before

slave2thewage
05-07-2014, 03:51 PM
And if you claim you didn't love hearing Closer, Hurt, THTF or Terrible Lie for the first time when you saw them live, you're a fucking liar.
Truth. When I was going to my first shows in 2005, all I wanted to hear was Sin and TDTWWA and I was so happy I got them. Like, ridiculously happy.

dissi
05-07-2014, 03:53 PM
This is totally reasonable, but you should have posted your opinion in the "Nine Inch Nails - 2014 Tour Discussion/Speculation" thread. If you read through some of that thread, you'd realize that there are people that agree with you and could have just said your opinion in a sentence or two.

well thank you. as obvious i havent been very busy in these forums lately. i even couldn't remember my login from the decade ago.
the problem is "hesitation marks" didnt suck. i think its the best nin-album since "the fragile".

m15a
05-07-2014, 03:57 PM
Having a video doesn't make it a single, and being a promo doesn't make it a single, no matter what. If you do include singles, sure there's more, but you could play a true greatest hits show with this as your setlist http://www.ninwiki.com/The_Definitive_NIN_-_The_Singles

Basically, fuck it. He's not playing for people who've seen NIN ten times this tour, he's not playing for people who lament that one song has been played 74 times whilst another only 73, he's playing to make a good, enjoyable show. And if you claim you didn't love hearing Closer, Hurt, THTF or Terrible Lie for the first time when you saw them live, you're a fucking liar.

Terrible Lie wasn't a single . . . and neither was Hurt by your definition. I mean, there are 10 songs from the updated "The Definitive NIN" on there. About half of the concert. Maybe it should be more, maybe it should be less.

AgentofChaos
05-07-2014, 05:27 PM
I think where things get convoluted are with the following statements;
a) Most people on this board are hardcore fans who want to hear a ton of rare stuff and The Fragile (arguably his least popular album commercially)
b) Trent thinks most people that come to his show want the hits and he doesnt want to dissapoint.

Fair points on both ends. Problem is, I think both perspectives are incorrect, at least on the surface. Due to lack of articulation, awareness, etc.

I think fans, hardcore NIN fans or music fans in general, or otherwise, all want to hear the "best" possible show. Now that is a very broad definition, and some multi show junkies or people stuck in the 90's aside, in general that would probably include some new stuff, the classics, and a couple nuggets of specialness. Just as a loose definition, work with me here. The best possible show would or should also would include some element of growth for the people that have seen them before whether it be once 10 years ago or on the last tour, etc. Basically as an artist, to hit the road again, one would hope they are trotting out something new *musically* for the world to see.

Trent thinks he is accomplishing that, because given his current incarnation of the band, what he has the ability to play in terms of his range, etc, and he wouldn't be wrong. If you asked him point blank if he thinks he is putting on the best nin show he could, I think he'd say fuck yeah and it would be hard to argue with him. It IS a pretty good setlist and had I been there last night, I'd probably be hard pressed to say I walked out anything less than satisfied.

Although I'll still try.

I would argue that the current setlists do not show the range NIN are capable of. I would also argue that the way he sells the band in the media, each leg being different etc, is kind of a cop out since 8 piece aside they are pretty much all the same. Now he can't see that, because of all the work on his end. His over attention to detail has compromised him from looking at a NIN show without bias since these little changes are huge things to adjust to in the great big machine that is his band that he has to manage. And I understand that. But if you were to take any of the recent shows since the return, and put them side by side to someone who has never seen NIN, I think they would be hard pressed to pick a favourite. A different video screen here, a couple stellar female back up singers there, but all more or the less the same songs presented the same way. TR would probably be furious to read that, because to him that's not his truth.

Point being, he's challenging himself in all the wrong ways as a touring artist right now with the NIN banner. There is no other side of spectrum to compare it to. It's not like he has done an experimental tour to contrast it with, so I don't know how we can define what the "best" NIN show would be any more. Is it a large band? Is it a 4 piece? Is it with video screens or without? How would we know when all the shows are eerily similar despite those differences. I have seen NIN 15 times in the last few years, and I will say that the With Teeth leg was unique. LITS was unique. But since then it's all been a mish mash at best with some external factors changing, but the songs, the experience, still remaining more or less the same.

I'm going again to the soundgarden tour again, not expecting anything different, but because there's no where else I'd rather be that night than hearing the same old songs. And that's good enough for me. But it's not as good as it could be, and that's what's frustrating, that it's not the "best" NIN show possible to showcase the experience of being a fan of the band, and we don't need a deep cut filled setlist for that to be the case. You want to create new fans? It doesn't mean you can't play the hits but you need for your set to incorporate the direction of where your work is currently heading (Not sure if 2 HM songs is doing justice to that), and/or throwback to what made you who you are, even if that's not who you are now, in a creative and fresh way (ala the Sanctified rework)

We need for there to be a thought process and a direction, not just these are the best nin songs I wrote so I'm going to play them and hope people don't get bored so here's a couple new distractions. I feel like the opposite started briefly with Tension and then quickly lost its way. You have a new record, and you should structure your setlists around that, and find the right songs to fit in between the gaps, and compliment them, and contrast them. Cue Into the Void, for example. A great track being busted out in the middle of some new stuff where it fit perfectly. Except how many times was that played? Instead it became the same songs, and less HM as time went on, and no real storytelling attempted. A NIN set should be a journey that starts some place, and ends up somewhere completely different. The last few years every journey starts and ends in the same place (with early parts of Tension notwithstanding).

People call this a greatest hits set list. And that's probably not because it's filled with singles although that's how it comes across, its because the structure and the journey are lazy and/or unfocused in the right areas. The same songs in the same areas for years upon years, hard to feel like your growing with the artists, that your being transported in an experience, no matter how much you try to dress it up. There is no instrumental section (he has a HUGE instrumental catalogue and at best will play one track from it), there aren't tracks that span the entirely of the catalogue (severe lack of Fragile, PHM, WT), nor is there an intended focus in one specific area either (if you want to do a TDS tour that's cool but own it). It's a hodge podge of what TR has designated to sound the best, and much to our dismay a lot of that hasn't changed.

To conclude; To TR that current setlist is, right now, his best version of the band that he would show someone seeing them live for the first time. I would suggest that it could be much, much better, trying to be as unbiased as possible in saying that, since I have seen them plenty of times, and I'm not suggesting TPD and WITT need to make appearances for that to happen. I'm suggesting the setlists need a focus, and the same thing he accuses other bands of doing, being cowardly and refusing to grow, is exactly what he is doing here with his sets, but he's too bogged down in it to see it. You can create a new journey with the same songs, you just need break it all down and start from scratch. And the best way to do that is with the new material and work your way backward. Like I said that started to happen with ITV, Sanctified, all of the HM stuff, but he's gotten lazy and gone away from that again to what's comfortable since he's constantly having to make changes to the band members, the presentation, etc all of the stuff that is NOT the music!

On this tour, the sets will prob range from 20-22 songs.
7 of those should be HM tracks, 7 should be the hits (triple H, closer, march), that much I think we can all agree upon. It's how you break down that remaining 7 that's elusive. Problem is right now your not getting 7 HM tracks, so instead of 7 you have 11-13 free range tracks, and all but 2 or 3 of those are pretty much the same every night, with of course the hits being the same every night and in the same place as well, compounding it making it that much more of a problem.

Truthful, savvy artists aren't going to cater to the new fans, or the old fans, or fucking anyone - they are going to try and put on the best show that reflects them as the artist they are today, because that is what will sell records and bring people back. As a fan it's confusing and I dont know how TR doesnt see that, because the directive in regards to the new material and how he feels about it is one thing, but there is a huge disconnect in terms of how that material is treated live, on its own AND in conjunction with the rest of his catalogue, basically outside of an Oct-November window of last year where he kind of got it right.

Fist Fuck
05-07-2014, 05:45 PM
Good points, I mostly agree. Personally, I'm just a little tired of the whole "fuck Europe (or any other place that's not the US)" attitude. The US got a huge production, 8-piece-band, +/- 26 songs including an epic 4-7 song encore. Once again Europe is getting a stripped-down version, barely any new tracks and no groundbreaking show NIN is so famous in the States for. My friend, who's a casual NIN listener even said recently "oh, now I see why people in the States like NIN so much" after he had seen the Tension footage.

Right now the visuals seem to be great, but not very inspired or groundbreaking, but I can live with that. I had the pleasure to see NIN last year in Milan, the only non-festival show and the setlist was great and the visuals just mindblowing (I still think the festival tour intro/setup is the best live thing NIN has done in years). Now seeing this setlist, which features 16 of the 20 songs played that I already saw last year, I'm a little disappointed. Where are live surprises like All The Love In The World? Where are the 25+ mega shows?

I know most people would leave a concert disappointed because they didn't get to hear Closer or Hurt or whatever, so I do understand the whole situation. Maybe I'm just bummed that the US, as always, gets the epic stuff, while the rest of the world gets the standard NIN treatment.

Probably after seeing tomorrow's setlist I'll completely change my mind, as always, seeing that he actually did switch it up and I'm happy again. As always.

sheepdean
05-07-2014, 05:46 PM
All I want is Maybe Just Once segued into Everything, is it too much to ask?

m15a
05-07-2014, 05:49 PM
What I'm getting from the AgentofChaos post above is that you think Trent is doing what he thinks is best, but you think that he should do what you think is best and somehow you think that you know what's best for other fans, too. You say "I would argue that the current setlists do not show the range NIN are capable of. I would also argue that the way he sells the band in the media, each leg being different etc, is kind of a cop out since 8 piece aside they are pretty much all the same" but I don't see where you're actually arguing on those points. From what I'm reading, you're just saying those things with the only support being that you feel that way.

sheepdean
05-07-2014, 05:50 PM
I reckon no one who complains about apparent lack of diversity in a setlist is a musician, and assumes every band member has the entire NIN catalogue memorised.

theimage13
05-07-2014, 05:53 PM
I'd actually love to hear those two tracks, not trolling or anything. Everything to replace 1,000,000.


I thought I was tired of hearing 1,000,000 live...but I'd take it over Everything. I've still only listened to that song one time; on the initial front to back listen of the album. There was something about it that really just rubbed me the wrong way, and as soon as I hear it starting up if I'm listening on shuffle, I quickly skip to another song.

icklekitty
05-07-2014, 06:08 PM
They have played one show.

AgentofChaos
05-07-2014, 06:09 PM
I wrote a pretty long post, and I'm pretty sure you couldn't be bothered to read it all otherwise you would have got more of a hint of what I'm talking about. I'm not suggesting that TR should do what I think is best, I'm suggesting he should be authentic to himself and what he is saying in interviews in regards to Hesitation Marks and the touring since he returned. How can you say every leg of the tour is different when the setlists stay basically the same?

Either he loves the new record and the head space he is in right now, and he should be excited to play more than 2-3 tracks from it, and that should help flesh out the set lists more in other areas

OR

or he should commit to being static as a tried and true formula and not claim to reinvent the wheel every time out, so we constantly get cock teased with thoughts of things that are probably never going to happen.

As an artist, you said you brought this band back for a reason, that you had something new to say. If only 7 of your songs on a 20+ song setlist have been recorded 2005 and onward, and if the songs you aren't playing aren't songs you havent played in a while, surely there is a level of disconnect there between what he's saying and doing. I simply suggest they should line up and I'd be ok with either, although Id obviously prefer the former.

I can sit back and enjoy a night of NIN live no matter what they play, but I know TR is a smart guy and I like to give him a pass for being a hypocrit more times than I would prefer to call him out on it, but this has kind of been going on for months now and unlike Sheepdean I refuse to keep pulling excuses out of my ass.

And Kitty; they havent played one show. This is a build up of the festival circuit last summer, japan, austrailia, new zealand, latin america etc.

sheepdean
05-07-2014, 06:19 PM
This thread is about Europe AgentofChaos, they really have only played one show

AgentofChaos
05-07-2014, 06:30 PM
Ok then so let's make an issue with the technical title of the thread instead of bothering to actually discuss the real issue... anything to avoid reality, eh Sheep?

It's cool I'm sure the next few shows will be filled with tons of HM and everything will be drastically different in no time and it will all finally make sense.

BRoswell
05-07-2014, 06:31 PM
*sigh*

First the complaints were about the band never bringing production over to Europe (which they've done now). Now the complaints are about the setlist not being "right". I hate to say this, but some of you guys over there sound a little nitpicky. You guys got production as well as a couple songs that weren't played over here last year (and that was just the first show). I'd say that's a pretty good deal.

EDIT: Wait a minute. This dude is from Toronto? What the hell is he complaining about then?

m15a
05-07-2014, 06:38 PM
I wrote a pretty long post, and I'm pretty sure you couldn't be bothered to read it all otherwise you would have got more of a hint of what I'm talking about. I'm not suggesting that TR should do what I think is best, I'm suggesting he should be authentic to himself and what he is saying in interviews in regards to Hesitation Marks and the touring since he returned. How can you say every leg of the tour is different when the setlists stay basically the same?

Okay, I read your post again. You're judging the extent to which the shows are the same or different based on your own perspectives about the value of different creative choices. You're saying the tour legs are the same because you're not finding the differences to be interesting or bold enough for you.

billpulsipher
05-07-2014, 07:15 PM
I'd actually love to hear those two tracks, not trolling or anything. Everything to replace 1,000,000.

I dig Kinda, I Want To as well...as for Everything....


I just remember Trent saying before the tour, something along the lines of how these shows will be a way to dissect old songs and completely rearrange them and this will be a reinvention of NIN.........not really

That other guy
05-07-2014, 07:15 PM
Hasn't this issue been discussed to death already , Trent can not and will not satisfy everyone...Get over it.. Move along..

Sarah K
05-07-2014, 08:34 PM
I still love 1,000,000 live.

TheBang
05-07-2014, 08:38 PM
I reckon no one who complains about apparent lack of diversity in a setlist is a musician, and assumes every band member has the entire NIN catalogue memorised.
3 of the 4 current touring members have over 300-400 NIN shows each, so they have a huge amount of experience with the majority of the NIN live catalog. And the 4th member just has to bang some sticks on things; how hard could that be?

K-Rice
05-07-2014, 08:59 PM
3 of the 4 current touring members have over 300-400 NIN shows each, so they have a huge amount of experience with the majority of the NIN live catalog. And the 4th member just has to bang some sticks on things; how hard could that be?
Banging on sticks whenever he's not running over to the keyboards during MotP or picking up back up guitar or bass or whatever the hell else is needed. Give Ilan some credit.

spahn
05-07-2014, 09:14 PM
Banging on sticks whenever he's not running over to the keyboards during MotP or picking up back up guitar or bass or whatever the hell else is needed. Give Ilan some credit.

he was being sarcastic.

TheBang
05-07-2014, 10:03 PM
Yeah, generous helping of tongue in cheek there. :D

halo eighteen
05-08-2014, 12:36 AM
I reckon no one who complains about apparent lack of diversity in a setlist is a musician, and assumes every band member has the entire NIN catalogue memorised.

If Trent can't perform a greater variety of songs because his band members can't be arsed to learn more material, then he should hire people who will.

sheepdean
05-08-2014, 01:01 AM
If Trent can't perform a greater variety of songs because his band members can't be arsed to learn more material, then he should hire people who will.
Robin and Ally combined have played nearly every NIN song that has been played live. It's not that they can't be arsed, it's that they do not have infinite memory, and haven't rehearsed NIN's 200+ song catalogue. I guarantee even Trent couldn't play most instruments on some of those songs without checking things first.

Omega
05-08-2014, 01:39 AM
Dang, as much money as this SG/NIN Amp Tour costs, will be disappointed if it's just greatest hits..and on top of that, there's crappy SG, and much, much worse, their greatest hits, lol:). Sure, some hits...but just play AATCHB for the more hard core fans that have been following NIN for over two decades:)...and don't wanna just hear, 'I wanna #@(/# you like an animal'.

WorzelG
05-08-2014, 02:35 AM
I think this thread is an example of what Trent said in an interview that parts of his fanbase are unpleaseable

nooneimportant
05-08-2014, 08:09 AM
I think this thread is an example of what Trent said in an interview that parts of his fanbase are unpleaseable

Pretty much.

Amazing music, amazing live show visuals, people still complain a bunch.

I'd honestly watch NIN do the same shit, you know why? It's simple, it's because NIN is damn good. Yeah sure if they played (Insert Song Here) it would be fantastic, but I'm just fine regardless.

jessamineny
05-08-2014, 08:14 AM
They have played one show.

In a country that's never had a NIN show before. That might possibly have figured into the setlist.

SarazenvonWolfenstein
05-08-2014, 08:43 AM
NIN also played in Germany, including Berlin, in 2009.2007 they had shows all over the country, compared to that one gig now it is rather depressing.But anyway, greatest hits?I'd count Closer, Wish, Thtf, Hlah and Hurt to that.Maybe in the States there are these mythical casual fans that only know a handful of songs like that and then attend a show.But from my experience I can say that if a German even knows what NIN is (Nein Insch wat?) they have heard all standard records (not including things like Fixed, sometimes Ghosts..) and therefor know most songs.So something off the Fragile isn't really a deep cut.Now about that Setlist again: I agree, needs more HM& TF.It seems a bit imbalanced, but TDS lovers get their satisfaction (I guess).And now let's be happy they play here again at all.

WorzelG
05-08-2014, 09:05 AM
The one person who's commented elsewhere who actually went to the show said it blew him away, so I'm going with what he said

AgentofChaos
05-08-2014, 09:15 AM
Ugh, sigh, If suggesting TR isn't supporting his new material with factual setlist evidence, or living up to his word in terms of the live presentation being different from when he retired it (again, with factual evidence) is the definition of being unpleaseable then yeah sure I'm unpleaseable. Fine, you got me. And while yes there is definitely a part of the fanbase that will never be happy until they hear x song, for the record that's not me. Not even close.

Look, I get people saying this is good ole NIN and enjoying that. That's cool. I plan to do the same. But if living in some fuckin fantasy world where TR is not a total hypocrit for what's gone on since the return (again, minus oct/nov) is your bag, and you want to ignore the truth, that's fine, but don't shoot the messenger. What he said, what he advertised and has continued to repeat in interviews, and what has actually occurred have been drastically different, and there is no argument, no excuses, no different interpretation, it just is what it is. I'm doing my best to come to terms with that, but it's not easy. I'm not going to be miserable about it, and it won't effect my ability to enjoy the shows I do attend. But some people around here want to pretend that tomorrow will be different. It's been a year. He's not all of a sudden going to add in another 5-6 HM songs, throw some instrumentals in there, play some fragile songs he's never played or even ones he infrequently has, or alter the same setlist formula that has been in practice for years and years and years now. He said he was going to bring NIN live back fresh, but it's not fucking happening people, give it a rest. I would have said that before yesterday's set and I'll say it again before they come back to NA. Sure it's awesome to see The Becoming or Eraser back, I'm sure there will be a few more still to come, but to me that's not recreating the live experience and it's not promoting your recent work. That's all I'm trying to say. You don't have to be unhappy about that, but at least fucking acknowledge it.

WorzelG
05-08-2014, 09:47 AM
^^but you got to SEE Tension and are moaning about something that isn't even coming to you. That's the very definition of unpleaseable. Anyway I have said elsewhere I'd love if they played more HM songs, while I'm still here etc, but I'm not so selfish I want him to actively lose money bringing all the players they had plus production to pull it off over to Europe. And in a recent interview he said they have 50 songs to choose from, over twice the Riga setlist so I'll wait and see what else turns up. They played Disappointed, All Time Low and others in the Southern hemisphere so I'm hopeful for those to appear

Sarah K
05-08-2014, 11:32 AM
Maybe in the States there are these mythical casual fans that only know a handful of songs like that and then attend a show.

Hi. I'm one of those mythical casual fans.

Attending a NIN show is what made me become a fan. I mean, I had heard a few of the songs in passing, and went to the show with my boyfriend(also a casual fan). But I probably couldn't have named you any of their songs at that point. Witnessing the show(even though I was spun out of my mind) is what made me a fan.

There are casual fans who attend shows. Some people just enjoy music. I will go to almost anything if the price is right. Sometimes, witnessing something in person is enough to transform a lot of thoughts.

icecream
05-09-2014, 12:40 AM
I think a lot of HM material would sound weird after having played it with a 8 piece band. AdD to that NIN hasn't gone to Latvia and NIN fans in Europe have wanted a full scale production for a while, I think this tour is to satisfy lots of of people who had all different expectations from NIN!

WorzelG
05-09-2014, 12:52 AM
I think a lot of HM material would sound weird after having played it with a 8 piece band. AdD to that NIN hasn't gone to Latvia and NIN fans in Europe have wanted a full scale production for a while, I think this tour is to satisfy lots of of people who had all different expectations from NIN!
I thought All Time Low sounded great in the Southern Hemisphere footage I saw - its funny that I thought HM was supposed to be minimal etc according to Trent yet those are the songs that need an 8 piece band. Anyway I'm hoping for more of it in the uk

simonn
05-09-2014, 01:39 AM
I thought All Time Low sounded great in the Southern Hemisphere footage I saw - its funny that I thought HM was supposed to be minimal etc according to Trent yet those are the songs that need an 8 piece band. Anyway I'm hoping for more of it in the uk

Would be nice, but I don't see more than 4 songs being played from it in any one night in Europe, going on the first two setlists. Shame, but I'm just grateful to be able to see them again.

slave2thewage
05-09-2014, 05:45 AM
NIN fans in Europe have wanted a full scale production for a whileI think people have forgotten that Europe has had tours with production before (summer 2007, the festival run last year), it's just that people keep thinking we have to have WITT and Zero-Sum and Perfect Drug over here.

SarazenvonWolfenstein
05-09-2014, 05:52 AM
Hi. I'm one of those mythical casual fans. I will go to almost anything if the price is right. .Hi there!I do that as well, but the price is right means to me gigs in bars for not more than 10-20 Euro.I would not pay 50 for NIN if I only knew a couple of songs.But it's nice that worked out for you.

r_z
05-09-2014, 10:28 AM
I think this thread is an example of what Trent said in an interview that parts of his fanbase are unpleaseable

He also once said something along the lines of "preaching to the choir"...

icecream
05-09-2014, 06:42 PM
I thought All Time Low sounded great in the Southern Hemisphere footage I saw - its funny that I thought HM was supposed to be minimal etc according to Trent yet those are the songs that need an 8 piece band. Anyway I'm hoping for more of it in the uk
I listend to HM again today at work thinking about this. Songs like satellite, In Two, Running, While I'm Still Here/ Black Noise haven't been played since Tension so they may not have been rehearsed for a 4 piece. I would for you was played only a few times and we know what he thinks of Everything. Its a shame, because those songs they aren't playing are the strongest post Fragile songs NIN has done I think.

sick among the pure
05-09-2014, 07:48 PM
we know what he thinks of Everything.

Last I knew (I haven't read any of the most recent interviews so that might have changed) Trent liked Everything, and before HM was released thought that NIN fans would like it too. But he saw how a good number of fans reacted, and decided not to play it live. They certainly learned it last year, though, since we can hear them play it during one of the Vevo behind the scenes videos.

icecream
05-09-2014, 08:05 PM
Last I knew (I haven't read any of the most recent interviews so that might have changed) Trent liked Everything, and before HM was released thought that NIN fans would like it too. But he saw how a good number of fans reacted, and decided not to play it live. They certainly learned it last year, though, since we can hear them play it during one of the Vevo behind the scenes videos.
Yeah, he said it was annoying all the whining about it and didn't want to play it. I like it, took a while to grow on me I'll admit.

sheepdean
05-09-2014, 08:14 PM
I'm going to start a campaign to whine about Terrible Lie to ensure he never plays that again, because Everything is so fucking good and I wish he'd play it, teach y'all a lesson

Moebius
05-10-2014, 02:47 AM
Last I knew (I haven't read any of the most recent interviews so that might have changed) Trent liked Everything, and before HM was released thought that NIN fans would like it too. But he saw how a good number of fans reacted, and decided not to play it live. They certainly learned it last year, though, since we can hear them play it during one of the Vevo behind the scenes videos.

And it was even originally planned on the v1 Lollapalooza setlist before they revised it.

jessamineny
05-10-2014, 07:12 AM
And it was even originally planned on the v1 Lollapalooza setlist before they revised it.

I'm starting to think that was like the OSR concert setlist with "Perfect Drug." Just mindfuckery.

icecream
05-10-2014, 07:47 AM
I'm starting to think that was like the OSR concert setlist with "Perfect Drug." Just mindfuckery.
Perfect Drug was printed but not played? What show?

sick among the pure
05-10-2014, 07:56 AM
Perfect Drug was printed but not played? What show?

The Open Source Resistance show. The "ARG show" that the "swat team" "crashed" right before when TPD was on the setlist.

jessamineny
05-10-2014, 07:58 AM
Perfect Drug was printed but not played? What show?

The Open Source Resistance concert (http://www.ninwiki.com/2007/04/18_Los_Angeles,_CA). During the ARG, they gave out ammo cases from the back of a truck in LA, and a very few of them had cell phones in them. Those people later got phone calls and ended up at a tiny NIN concert that got filmed. They punked them. On the setlist was "Perfect Drug." Right before that part of the "setlist" the concert was "raided" by "government operatives" out to arrest the "resistance"... and "Perfect Drug" never got played.

icecream
05-10-2014, 08:07 AM
Ok, thanks! I didn't recognize the acronym. I was thinking it was Outside Lands but a typo.

jessamineny
05-10-2014, 08:26 AM
I like that we both used hella quote marks. :D

icklekitty
05-10-2014, 10:08 AM
And Kitty; they havent played one show. This is a build up of the festival circuit last summer, japan, austrailia, new zealand, latin america etc.

If that's the context they've played at least four songs from the album regularly, so your argument doesn't stand. Is there something that I'm missing about Latvia? Is it suddenly the king of the world that will forever be held in history as a postermark for future and past concerns on this tor?

AgentofChaos
05-10-2014, 12:28 PM
If that's the context they've played at least four songs from the album regularly, so your argument doesn't stand. Is there something that I'm missing about Latvia? Is it suddenly the king of the world that will forever be held in history as a postermark for future and past concerns on this tor?


Naw actually, the argument does still stand up completely because playing 4 songs regularly from a new record getting doesnt live up to what TR suggested the return of NIN live was, it lives up to the tried and true strategy for an older classic rock band, which is churn out a new record, sell a few copies, but tour the living daylights out following up its release, playing mostly the classics and yeah sure a few new songs to promote it, which in my eyes is fine, but again, counter intuitive to what Trent suggested his motives were in the beginning, and still to this day, surprisingly. When artists fall in love with a new record they've put their heart and soul into, their set lists tend to become structured around that, to display the material in the best light and to showcase where they are now as an artist, and that is far from what has been the case all over the world for basically a year now. If people want to make excuses and turn a blind eye than go right ahead but stop engaging me on technicalities and semantics. Now this doesnt make the live shows not enjoyable, so it's really not a huge issue in the big scale of things, but when I look around at other bands I like and I see what they are doing with their catalogue's and their sets based on their newer material, it just makes me a little jaded. Maybe I don't what to admit what NIN has become, maybe because TR can't admit it to himself yet... they are in the process of becoming a classic rock band. Pretty sure that's why Belew left, he wasn't interested in doing that (but that is 100% speculation on my part I have no idea why, obviously). And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that on both sides. Things become classics for a reason. I just need to stop expecting things out of the band, which is hard, because of the promises he tends to make, but thankfully a lot of what I've felt has become missing from the band has shown up in other areas anyway like HTDA (best show I'd been to in a long time) and the scores. Reznor himself is far from washed up and still has plenty to offer musically unlike a lot of his contemporaries, but I think it's time to accept that NIN live for the foreseeable future will continue to be nothing more than what it is now and has been for the last x amount of years; You go to rock out, rage to march, cool down to the Frail, pump your fists, clap your hands, hear some yeahs, get your triple H combo and call it a night. And if youre lucky you get Eraser or BYIT or something.

WorzelG
05-10-2014, 12:56 PM
^^^
But...but you saw Tension - isn't that what you wanted? And he kind of can't afford that big band thing worldwide and make money on the tour. it's just financial reality although I think I've said that before

AgentofChaos
05-10-2014, 04:19 PM
Yeah and I was extremely lucky to see it. But this isn't about me. If NIN plays say 120 shows in a year.... and only 30 of them are Tension sets, it's clear what the norm is. What the standard is for a regular NIN show in this era. I understand the lack of production and the 8 piece outside of NA I'm not complaining about that at all it was a nice bonus for sure, but I also dont believe those things are required to have similar sets to that of Tension and have it be effective. You just have to change up the other songs to fit the aesthetic a little more. Why is it that he can't play I Would For You or Satellite or In Two or Various Methods or While I'm Still Here unless he has two back up singers? These are supposed to be the songs that invigorated him to come back on tour, for him to drop them so quickly is very off when the only excuse that can be suggested is he has to play the hits to these rarely visited markets when he still played all the hits on the Tension tour too?

sore_and_crucified
05-11-2014, 04:46 AM
I was just hoping for a Hesitation Marks tour. A Hesitation Marks set-list with some of the older tracks mixed in. I'll be 'disappointed' to see only 1 new song live :(

I would have been happy to experience the full production, backing singers etc, just because it would have been different to before. I will always enjoy the show... It's just great to see and hear something different.

On the other hand, I'm pretty stoked to be seeing Jane's 'Nothing Shocking' live in Manchester!!

Star
05-11-2014, 07:35 PM
I for one hope the "greatest hits" tour becomes part of the Soundgarden tour and I am a hardcore fan. :) However, just once I would like to hear Fragile.

Omega
05-12-2014, 06:25 AM
Re: SG tour, I don't want a greatest hits tour but there are fans that want to hear the hits, so those are a give in..I suspect the setlist will comprise of the hits, several off HM and a couple songs to mix things up some. Who knows.

slave2thewage
05-12-2014, 04:38 PM
Oslo setlist happened, this thread is invalid.

sheepdean
05-12-2014, 05:02 PM
Oslo setlist happened, this thread is invalid.
But they played more than one song that they've played in the past 5 years, clearly Trent is just rehashing shit

miss k bee
05-12-2014, 05:49 PM
No Satellite :(

ophelia_
05-13-2014, 09:24 PM
NIN are playing in Berlin tomorrow... My favourite band in my favourite city.

Wonder if I can sell my car, book a flight and get there in time.

mfte
05-13-2014, 09:44 PM
In regards to the greatest hits tour... I remember some old interview with TR where he said something about seeing Rush play live and when they started getting into their new material all he could think was "play fucking tom sawyer".

The man had pretty much a whole deep cuts tour when they toured with Jane's and those of us who got to be there were lucky.

What should he do? Have fans vote on the set list like Metallica?

MrSlfDstruct
05-13-2014, 09:49 PM
That'd be cool . . .

Ryan
05-13-2014, 10:55 PM
What should he do? Have fans vote on the set list like Metallica?

Yes.
tenchars

sheepdean
05-13-2014, 11:08 PM
Ew no, don't let fans dictate an entire setlist. Having requests or w/e is fine, but not "play this even though it would sound bad in this order"

WorzelG
05-14-2014, 12:09 AM
If he did a request thing, fans would still request closer, head like a hole and we'd still moan about no deep cuts.

sick among the pure
05-14-2014, 01:52 AM
He would get a flood of "TPD!" "TAPEWORM!" "PUREST FEELING LOLOLOLOL!" and say something about his fans being cunts.

sheepdean
05-14-2014, 01:56 AM
I .. actually WOULD want purest feeling though

SarazenvonWolfenstein
05-14-2014, 02:08 AM
Oslo setlist happened, this thread is invalid.

Also the Copenhagen setlist is brilliant (even prefer it over Oslo).Did they actually play any open air venues yet?They'll do tomorrow and the show will most likely start out with daylight.Wonder what that means for the visuals, so far I could resist looking them up on instagram etc.Really looking forward to dragging my cold-ridden arse to Berlin tomorrow.

slave2thewage
05-14-2014, 05:40 AM
The only thing I want is to catch the A Warm Place/Somewhat Damaged opening combo at one of my shows.

Camille
05-14-2014, 08:40 AM
Re a greatest hits tour, I'm just grateful they are touring again and that they are playing close to where I live too. They are big venues hence crowd pleaser set lists, I'm content with that.

m15a
05-14-2014, 01:16 PM
What should he do? Have fans vote on the set list like Metallica?

I vote no. ;)

I don't know what Metallica does specifically, so maybe it's interesting, but having the fans choose all the songs without limitation would mean that Trent and the rest of the band (and Rob) wouldn't get to make artistic decisions or just personal decisions for that matter. I mean, we'd have TPD even though it might sound awful live and Happiness in Slavery even though Trent doesn't feel like singing it anymore (those are just examples, dunno if those factors are actually true).

Sure, some bands are different - they are open to playing anything and making it sound good and having voting could be more of an opportunity than a limitation. But that's not the way NIN (and definitely Trent) has worked so far.

Also, yeah, we'd get like five versions of Starfuckers/Starsuckers, Inc. at one concert for the lulz (or because people are really big fans somewhere?).

cahernandez
05-14-2014, 01:36 PM
If he did a request thing, fans would still request closer, head like a hole and we'd still moan about no deep cuts.

Actually, when Metallica did this, most of the votes went to standard, greatest hits songs. Master of Puppets was #1 for a great number of shows. Take a look at this website and you'll see what I mean: http://www.metallicabyrequest.com/. There were very few deep cuts in the top 20, one that comes to mind popping out a lot in those sets was Whiskey in the Jar (awesome video for the song). I suspect that if NIN did this, most votes would go to standard songs, as the average voter wouldn't be your crazy ETSer.

Last page (or two pages ago) I commented on lack of HM in this tour, and since then they've played Disappointed and All Time Low, so it's looking better now.

WorzelG
05-14-2014, 01:54 PM
Actually, when Metallica did this, most of the votes went to standard, greatest hits songs. Master of Puppets was #1 for a great number of shows. Take a look at this website and you'll see what I mean: http://www.metallicabyrequest.com/. There were very few deep cuts in the top 20, one that comes to mind popping out a lot in those sets was Whiskey in the Jar (awesome video for the song). I suspect that if NIN did this, most votes would go to standard songs, as the average voter wouldn't be your crazy ETSer.

Last page (or two pages ago) I commented on lack of HM in this tour, and since then they've played Disappointed and All Time Low, so it's looking better now.
Some of those European ones have pretty good choices, nice to see Orion and Blackened in there. Some of the ones I'd like to see are The Thing That Should Not Be, Disposable Heroes, Leper Messiah, Harvester of Sorrow but they're just bubbling under.

TheRealNs1
05-14-2014, 03:48 PM
The only thing I want is to catch the A Warm Place/Somewhat Damaged opening combo at one of my shows.

and it is fucking glorious, as long as the stupid wankers next to you don't talk during all of AWP. Yes stupid wankers @ Staples Center 2013, I'm talking about you.

icecream
05-14-2014, 09:24 PM
I would like a Only Time reworked like Sanctified.

AWP into SD is epic, glad no one talked when I saw them. Hope the fans in Europe get to see it too!

kleiner
05-14-2014, 10:43 PM
They could throw the sexiest string of songs into the setlist and have All Time Low still end with the Closer tease and then have it lead into Closer which then leads into The Only Time which somehow connects to Sanctified.

That would be great.

ophelia_
05-15-2014, 07:54 PM
Some of those European ones have pretty good choices, nice to see Orion and Blackened in there. Some of the ones I'd like to see are The Thing That Should Not Be, Disposable Heroes, Leper Messiah, Harvester of Sorrow but they're just bubbling under.

Clearly I need coffee... I read this and thought "WHAT ARE THESE NIN SONGS I'VE NEVER HEARD OF?!!"


They could throw the sexiest string of songs into the setlist and have All Time Low still end with the Closer tease and then have it lead into Closer which then leads into The Only Time which somehow connects to Sanctified.

I got a ladyboner just thinking about that.

dissi
05-15-2014, 08:37 PM
finally i was totally wrong. at least about the berlin show.
crazily good setlist (with some stuff from "hesitation marks"):

me i’m not
sanctified
the beginning of the end
march of the pigs
piggy
all time low
dissapointed
the becoming
came back haunted
find my way
various methods of escape
survivalism
the warning
copy of a
the great destroyer
head covers bruise
beside you in time
wish
the hand that feeds
head like a hole

closer
the day the world went away
hurt

AgentofChaos
05-16-2014, 12:26 PM
Yeah I've been as critical as anyone of the setlist and structure post Tension but that is pretty respectable.

icecream
05-18-2014, 12:51 PM
So a few shows in and the setlists are fine, don't complain after one show. Fucking people....

dlb
05-18-2014, 01:08 PM
It is still somewhat of a rehash of older and long known setlists, but then again... what songs do people really want to hear apart from 3-4 real gems? A 10 song set consisting of obscurities?

I could care less about piggy, survivalism or the warning, but man... tdtwwa, beside you in time, the becoming and lots of stuff from the new album! that was awesome! and even if I could switch the songs that I did not like, what would I choose? Exactly! Songs that other people think are being played way too often (reptile, gave up, the wretched, terrible lie, etc.).

The sets are great as they are and as long as Trent and Co. pull off a high octane show it's exactly what most of us want to see anyway!

icecream
05-18-2014, 02:44 PM
But those older songs always get played. MotP, HLAH etc... I bet lots of people there have never seen NIN before. If they didn't play them, those fans would feel they didn't get a proper NIN show. My brother is seeing NIN in July with me. It will be my third show, his first. He is a fan, but not hardcore. If they didn't play those songs, he would feel like it wasn't a full NIN experience. They will always play the same older songs every tour. That doesn't make it a greatest hits tour, every band does this. As cool as it would be for NIN to pull out songs like Ringfinger, Ripe, with Decay and then an encore of super cool unreleased tracks, its not going to happen. Playing the hits at every show is also caring for the fans, like those who are into NIN and havent seem them multiple times.

dlb
05-18-2014, 03:34 PM
Exactly, so the setlists as they are show a good mixture of their material and to be honest, hlah, thtf and hurt are a great closing to the show and will always be. the fact that they have losen it a bit with closer so late in the set and tdtwwa makes for a nice change though and everyone is getting something out of it.

looking back Oslo and Berlin had the coolest setlists and the longest ones aswell so far. hopefully London gets a proper treatment aswell. :)

kleiner
05-18-2014, 03:50 PM
As little as I enjoy THTF on the album or listening to shows, I'd be lying if seeing it live for the first time last year wasn't really amazing. In general a lot of the hits really are great crowd pleasers, and even when there were hits I'm not the biggest on (like THTF), the sheer level of energy and intense response it elicits from the crowd is really infectious and it's hard not to find yourself getting into it.

A lot of the songs they play so often really are effective, and in the past week or so they've seemed really willing to play around with what goes where and what they play. I know a lot of people are down on The Warning, but I think that's a really awesome thing to throw in, it definitely would be incredibly unexpected to see. I think there's a nice blend right now of songs everyone will enjoy regardless of why they came to the show, and things diehard fans will love, and things people sort of familiar but not quite super into it will love as well. It's just a really nice balance, and to me this European tour has been shying more and more away from being a basic greatest hits show for sure, instead it's got a nice potpourri of songs from throughout the history of NIN and great little tastes of everything else.

Also as cool as a Fragile-centric setlist would be, I know that as soon as they'd start doing that we'd all start wishing they'd play more from some other album, and it would just keep going that way. With a discography as huge as NIN I think it's always going to think of what we aren't getting rather than what we are, but what we are getting seems very cool and I can't imagine not being entertained by any of these recent setlists.

AgentofChaos
05-18-2014, 04:59 PM
Fucking people. Reading comprehension. You can say the complainers are annoying and impossible to please but the people complaining about the complainers without reading what the actual complaints are, are even worse in my mind.

The complaining re: setlists have not as much been about the lack of fragile or that they are "playing the hits" (although obviously everyone here could do for more deep cuts), it was primarily about the lack of the new aka Hesitation Marks. Every set thus far in 2014 had 2, maybe 3 songs from it. This ONE set list had 6. Which is a huge difference. Hopefully it stays in the 5-8 range and if it does I promise you it will shut a ton of people up and it will naturally fix a lot of the issues on its own. But that is far from a guarantee since as everyone loves to say, it's only been one show with a set like that!

Its when that number goes back down to 2 and is replaced with more of the same old that people start to get a little frustrated since if you aren't playing your new material, and you aren't playing any back catalogue songs that you haven't played much of lately, how then has the live show grown or changed at all? That's the point, especially when TR sold it as being this "new era of NIN live".

How many times do I need to repeat that before people start to get it? You made a good new album that your fans love and want to hear. Fuckin play it. That's all. And if you aren't going to, then yeah play more deep cuts and Fragile and I'm sure that'd be fine too.

kleiner
05-18-2014, 05:12 PM
AgentofChaos : I can't speak for anyone else but my comment wasn't directed at you specifically, if anything more towards my own complaints that I myself have thought before and trying to be more positive about it.

However, as for the lack of HM songs, I definitely see the complaints there, but at the same time the Tension tour managed to cover up to 10 tracks a night and still have a lot of room for more, because the shows themselves went up to the two hour mark at times. The current tour is more the standard 90 minutes to do your thing and bounce off the stage set-length, and it's got to be hard to narrow it down to that after having done far larger shows recently. Also, the markets they're hitting either haven't seen NIN in years upon years, or haven't seen them at all whatsoever, so anything is a nice addition and I think TR really wants to share the NIN experience to people who have never been there to actually experience it.

That said, it would be very cool for more HM to become commonplace again, but really, with as huge of a catalog as NIN has, when you're hitting places you've not been to in over 5 years, it can't be easy deciding on what to play or what the crowd wants to see. In general everyone who has been to the current shows has seemed really, really pleased, and that's really what counts, isn't it?

Also when TR calls it the new era of NIN, well, to be fair, it's a unique 4 piece in a structure they've never tried out before, they're re-arranging a lot of material even if it's subtleties, they've changed up the stage show again and have brought in screens, the 2009-era backing lights and the hanging Tension lights, they're bringing songs like Beside You In Time back for the first times since 2006, two of some of the most beloved TDS tracks, have mixed in Year Zero material more than Tension did, have extended and played with the Great Destroyer's breakdown, they've played around with the opening songs for the sets (and while they've done a lot of them before, it's still not common for Me, I'm Not to open a show, and the Eater of Dreams mix with Pinion is still new), etc. etc. etc. There's a strong mix of new things and old things with unique twists, and to ignore all of that and claim this is the same show everyone saw before is ignoring a lot of the subtleties and even some of the major details. Whether or not that's satisfying to you isn't really important, because people who actually bought tickets and have been there and seen the show and posted clips to instagram and youtube and RITC have all seemed very happy with the shows they've gotten, and ultimately that's who deserves a good show: the people who paid money to see it and took the time out of their life to attend.

m15a
05-18-2014, 05:16 PM
How many times do I need to repeat that before people start to get it? You made a good new album that your fans love and want to hear. Fuckin play it. That's all. And if you aren't going to, then yeah play more deep cuts and Fragile and I'm sure that'd be fine too.

Here's a cool trick. When you're describing something that you want, start the sentence with "I want" or "I hope that" instead of giving a command or making a statement about what's right. You'll be surprised how quickly the reading comprehension of everyone else on the forum increases. Another cool trick is to be critical of your own thinking and ideas. Suddenly, everyone around you will become more intelligent.

icecream
05-18-2014, 05:29 PM
He did that tour in North America. I haven't read or heard anything of him saying these 2014 shows were to tour for the new album.

AgentofChaos
05-18-2014, 07:42 PM
Whether or not that's satisfying to you isn't really important, because people who actually bought tickets and have been there and seen the show and posted clips to instagram and youtube and RITC have all seemed very happy with the shows they've gotten, and ultimately that's who deserves a good show: the people who paid money to see it and took the time out of their life to attend.

Please don't mistake what I said with suggesting that I don't think even the most "boring" of sets isn't worth the price of admission or isn't a good show. Absolutely not the case. It's the same with Tool. I would be happy to pay the same amount once every couple years to see that exact same set list with the same songs every tour from now till eternity and I'd walk out of there happy because at the end of the day if said band is in my city on any given night, there is nowhere else I'd rather be regardless of what they play. The talent level for me is that high, and I love the entire catalogue of both bands so it's not really a huge issue.

But that doesn't mean things can't bother me, or I can't want the band to be better, or that we as fans should be complacent if things get stagnant. I don't think I'm being unrealistic. I love the new record, I want people to hear it. It's just baffling to me that TR doesn't feel the same way, especially given his comments. But as evidence by the last set, he might be changing his tune. So let's hope it continues. If it doesn't, then yeah, that's ok too, but you play 20-21 songs a night around the world and only 2-3 of them are from your new record that's been out less than a year, then guess what, you're a classic rock band. And as I've said many times, that is ok with me. But own it, and due me the respect as a fan not to try and sell me that you are anything different.

icecream
05-18-2014, 10:41 PM
Most of the songs have been from TDS and YZ. TDS turns 20 and has lots of the must play songs. Why would he play lots from YZ then if they are a classic rock band just playing the hits? It's not one of nin's major albums. TF is a major NIN album but they haven't been playing much from it. Same as WT. Maybe this tour isn't to support HM but to tour the band in locations they haven't played in a while...

kleiner
05-18-2014, 11:50 PM
I think TR just really loves Year Zero, he's always seemed very proud of it. There was even a performance of God Given during LITS (can't remember the date for the life of me) where he openly talked about how much he loved it, and told everyone that hadn't to go listen to it; this was after Ghosts and The Slip were already out, too. I think it was just a really cool, experimental thing that he put a lot of work into and finds fun to play live, and I'll always take a musician playing what they want to play and are enthusiastic about over things they're doing out of obligation any day.

icecream
05-19-2014, 12:51 AM
I think TR just really loves Year Zero, he's always seemed very proud of it. There was even a performance of God Given during LITS (can't remember the date for the life of me) where he openly talked about how much he loved it, and told everyone that hadn't to go listen to it; this was after Ghosts and The Slip were already out, too. I think it was just a really cool, experimental thing that he put a lot of work into and finds fun to play live, and I'll always take a musician playing what they want to play and are enthusiastic about over things they're doing out of obligation any day.
Right, the exact opposite of a classic rock band. I still can't see why people here think this is a greatest hits tour.

AgentofChaos
05-19-2014, 02:22 AM
Huh? Half of the set is an obligation. We've already established this, and come to the general consensus that it makes sense to play the songs, and it's nothing against them. But make no mistake it is a complete obligation and Trent has said as much i.e the paying customer expects to hear certain songs. Which is why you will never ever go to a NIN show and not hear the same 10 songs out of a group of 12-13. I don't possibly see how he could be as enthusiastic playing the same song for the 1000th time as opposed to playing something new he just recorded, but its pointless to even discuss this since its completely intangible and something we could never know one way or the other any way.

As far as Year Zero, we're really talking about 3 songs. Since Survivalism is a single/obligation, and The Beginning of the End has been played just a handful of times since the return, that leaves Me, I'm Not, The Great Destroyer, and The Warning. 3 solid live songs that feature the glitchier part of the NIN experience which I would presume TR wants to include as a portion of the set, as he should. I also imagine he prefers the record to The Slip given that he spent much more time creating it, he doesnt play Ghosts anymore, his lack of Fragile is well documented, and PHM is pretty dated. So that only leaves TDS, WT, and Year Zero as the records of majority with a couple of Broken tracks serving as staples too.

Yet, even with Year Zero as one of the large more favorable records to pull from, it has a ton of songs he rarely plays, or has never touched since its release. No Hyperpower, No Zero Sum, No My Violent Heart, No Capital G, No Meet Your Master, No Another Version of the Truth, The Greater Good was an interlude for one tour. That leaves God Given, The Good Soldier, In This Twilight, and Vessel which although haven't been played much but I'd say are still in the realms of possibility for any show. So basically only half the album is even up for grabs to be played at any given time.

In short, I seriously don't know what the fuck you guys are talking about. Why the hell would a band that isn't a classic rock band, tour less than a year after a brand new release 5 years in the making, and not choose to promote it? Because he is a true artist who just absolutely needs to play those 5 songs from Year Zero? Because that's what he wants to do instead of play his new record and there is simply no way he can do both? That's your fuckin argument? You've got to be shitting me here.

MacabreMagpie
05-19-2014, 05:40 AM
I've seen them open with 'Hyperpower' a few times and that always worked quite well. I don't think 'Me, I'm Not' is a particularly great opener BUT the guy next to me was overjoyed as it's his favourite song so these things are obviously subjective. The crowd seemed a little tame around me - I only felt movement during a handful of songs - but I'm sure it was crazy in the middle-front.

I was OK with the set - I'd hoped for a little more from The Fragile but I'd seen recent setlists so this was pretty much what I expected and I was happy to get it. I don't mind them playing 'Head Like a Hole' and 'The Hand That Feeds' every time but it'd be nice if they'd change the order up, a little. And for me, they absolutely HAVE to end with 'Hurt'. I don't know why people complain about that (referring mostly to other threads).

I thought they put on a great show - the only cock-up that I was regretful of was that Alessandro was having difficulties with his set-up during Copy of A and so some of the melodies during the chorus were missing so it kind of ruined my first experience of the song BUT, as I said, overall happy.

antpatty
05-19-2014, 06:28 AM
Seeing NIN again this sunday and at primavera next week and I have to say I'm not as excited as I should be after looking at the current setlist even the scala show was pretty much a greatest hits set. I'm sure it will be a great show but can't we get a setlist similar to the wave goodbye tour? I will probably haver to fly to the states if I want something different though

Southwestwall
05-19-2014, 05:49 PM
Stupid me. There I was thinking that when NiN played live, the "how" was as much a part of the experience as "what".

In that case, who stole the tour gear and rearranged the songs last night, to sound so visceral and stripped down in an outstanding live performance? The real band must have been detained by the set list police I guess.

Damn! I've been cheated. Where's the refund? Better still, where's my free seat for the cliche tour? Oh yes, there's a hundred wrinkly back-catalogue peddlers that do that for three times the ticket price.

icecream
05-19-2014, 07:07 PM
PHM can be reworked, see Sanctified. Also, the lack of songs from The Fragile and only 1-2 songs from With Teeth, both major NIN albums. You brushed over that, a major part of my point. If it was a greatest hits tour, songs from the larger albums would be played. Yes, it sucks lots of the new songs aren't being played. But I never heard anything about this tour being a promotion for the new album. But, to call it a greatest hits tour is wrong, in my opinion.

TheRealNs1
05-19-2014, 07:23 PM
I swear to god one day trent is going to play a set full of ghosts + still + further down the spiral and you guys are going to go "WHAT THE FUCK NO CLOSER"

sick among the pure
05-19-2014, 09:09 PM
I swear to god one day trent is going to play a set full of ghosts + still + further down the spiral and you guys are going to go "WHAT THE FUCK NO CLOSER"

There was little (I would say no, but I remember at least one person) complaining about Closer being dropped after the festival leg. ETS as a whole would not complain if Closer wasn't played ever again.
They'd be more likely to complain about how slow/boring a show made 1/3 of Ghosts would be.

sheepdean
05-20-2014, 12:35 AM
They'd be more likely to complain about how slow/boring a show made 1/3 of Ghosts would be.
I'm on the team of "play Ghosts I-IV in full with an orchestra"

botley
05-20-2014, 12:45 AM
I swear to god one day trent is going to play a set full of ghosts + still + further down the spiral and you guys are going to go "WHAT THE FUCK NO CLOSER"
See: the UK's reaction to NIN's Sonisphere 2009 set for pretty much exactly that.


I'm on the team of "play Ghosts I-IV in full with an orchestra"
Nah, he should tour solo with a mixture of Fragile and "quiet" tracks arranged for a string section and grand piano, like the Bridge School shows. It sounds like there might be one more NIN album/tour on deck before that can happen, though.

icecream
05-20-2014, 08:30 PM
Nah, he should tour solo with a mixture of Fragile and "quiet" tracks arranged for a string section and grand piano, like the Bridge School shows. It sounds like there might be one more NIN album/tour on deck before that can happen, though.
Find My Way would sound really good that way, I think.

antpatty
05-22-2014, 03:44 AM
This UK tour is pretty good but NIN live is usually amazing not sure if its the 4 piece or Trent is just focusing his energy more on the gone girl soundtrack. Think this will be the last tour i do multiple shows of

PUNCHLINE
05-23-2014, 03:41 AM
See: the UK's reaction to NIN's Sonisphere 2009 set for pretty much exactly that.


It was more that the setlist for that show was just a badly planned mess with no dynamics at all and that it ended about 15 minutes earlier than they were supposed to, mixed with Trent's contempt for playing to what he thought was an audience of Metallica fans only that made Sonisphere suck, rather than the fact that Closer wasnt played lol.

icklekitty
05-23-2014, 05:12 AM
The Sonisphere performance was awesome. I was on the barrier for that and the Metallica fans (as usual) were extremely respectful. Calm your noise.

PUNCHLINE
05-23-2014, 03:07 PM
The Sonisphere performance was awesome. I was on the barrier for that and the Metallica fans (as usual) were extremely respectful. Calm your noise.

I didnt say they weren`t respectful.

I said that Trent misread the event and thought he would be playing to Metallica`s audience and therefore he played a screwed up setlist just to try and piss them off, which he admitted afterwards. Unfortunately a huge part of the crowd were there to see NIN and got a rushed setlist devoid of any kind of dynamics which left a large amount of the audience either puzzled or disappointed. Im sure it was great on the barrier, go a little further back and all you got was puzzled looks and disappointed faces, especially from NIN fans. Trent made a point of saying he played a "quiet set" , but it was just a real mess. If he'd actually played a quiet set it would have been really nice!

dissi
06-04-2014, 07:28 PM
the setlists now went down the drain again.
why there is no "i would for you", "various methods of escape", "all time low"?

elevenism
06-05-2014, 01:26 AM
You guys have to remember, we are what trent himself (semi?) jokingly calls "superfans" here.
Most of us don't go to NIN shows psyched up to hear HLAH and Closer...don't get me wrong, those two specifically drive me nuts these days.

And my dream NIN show would be more Still than Wish/MOTP/Terrible lie...and for some reason, i THINK we are going to get this someday.

But there are a LOT of people who haven't seen NIN...people who love NIN as much as we do...even people here on ETS, who have never caught a show AT ALL. And to paraphrase sheepdean, you loved hearing all those staple tunes the first time around.

So i think, as fans, we have to recognize this shit, and realize that, even as boring as it may be to some of us to hear hurt live for the sixth or seventh or twentieth time live, there are other "REAL" nin fans for whom these performances make their fucking DECADE, you feel me?

Fist Fuck
06-05-2014, 04:01 AM
Tension: ~24-26 songs
Europe2014: ~20 songs

Let him play all the hits, but it wouldn't hurt anyone to throw in some rarities. Throw in just a couple old and new songs and you get a killer setlist:

Me, I'm Not
Copy of A
The Beginning of the End
March of the Pigs
Piggy
Reptile
Survivalism
The Becoming
Gave Up
Sanctified
Closer
Find My Way
Disappointed
The Warning
The Great Destroyer
Eraser
A Warm Place
Somewhat Damaged
Wish
The Hand That Feeds
Head Like a Hole

All Time Low
The Day the World Went Away
In This Twilight
Hurt

But I'm not complaining too much, I like the setlist and I can't wait to see the show on Monday :)

icklekitty
06-05-2014, 04:31 AM
Despite my post in the general discussion thread, I would still in no way call this a greatest hits tour. The Great Destroyer, Eraser, Sanctified Me, I'm Not - decidedly not hits.

hani
06-05-2014, 05:26 AM
those EU setlists are ok, although I still think throwing in some random Head Down would make it a hell lotta better

*edit* or anything from The Slip actually, who wants some Discipline, Echoplex or maybe even Demon Seed?

Inkė
06-05-2014, 06:04 AM
When I saw these 3 japan setlists earlier in the year, I thought "omg what a treat, I'm sure we won't have that kind of set in Europe"...

... LOL

Opening with Me I'm Not, then Reptile, Eraser, The Warning, The Great Destroyer, TDTWWA Fragile version... of course nobody has one of these in his top 10 NIN songs...

slave2thewage
06-05-2014, 06:08 AM
*edit* or anything from The Slip actually, who wants some Discipline, Echoplex or maybe even Demon Seed?

Please, god, no. Discipline is the only acceptable song.

sheepdean
06-05-2014, 10:45 AM
It's not a greatest hits tour until we get TPD, WITT, DII and Discipline. This is a "pretty good selection of non-album tracks tour".

elevenism
06-05-2014, 08:49 PM
Please, god, no. Discipline is the only acceptable song.

holy shit, i LOVE 1,000,000, letting you, echoplex...you don't like?

Lastentrance
06-06-2014, 03:00 AM
This UK tour is pretty good but NIN live is usually amazing not sure if its the 4 piece or Trent is just focusing his energy more on the gone girl soundtrack. Think this will be the last tour i do multiple shows of

Looks like I lucked out with the three shows I went to, as the band killed each time.

hani
06-06-2014, 03:32 AM
Please, god, no. Discipline is the only acceptable song.

blasphemy .

martin_b
06-06-2014, 03:50 AM
This is madness!

slave2thewage
06-06-2014, 06:04 AM
holy shit, i LOVE 1,000,000, letting you, echoplex...you don't like?
1,000,000 is alright live. Letting You and Echoplex are frigging dull. The best bit of the Cardiff show was just the entire area on the rail in front of Trent glaring at him and standing around mute while they played Letting You.

Fist Fuck
06-06-2014, 06:20 AM
Letting You is one of the weakest NIN songs. I never liked it, and I have no idea why he'd play it live. There's something about the chorus that sounds off, probably the "WE'RE letting you get away". Why doesn't he sing "we're LETTING you get away"...

Echoplex is brilliant, one of my favorite post-With Teeth NIN songs. Not sure if it needs to be played live though.

nooneimportant
06-06-2014, 07:58 AM
Letting You is one of the weakest NIN songs.

Really?!

That song is absolutely intense especially when Josh Freese was on the drums. He would just annihilate on the kit.

lordfalconer
06-06-2014, 08:07 AM
Opening with Me I'm Not, then Reptile, Eraser, The Warning, The Great Destroyer, TDTWWA Fragile version... of course nobody has one of these in his top 10 NIN songs...

Would it be awkward to raise the fact Reptile is my no.1 NIN song? :\

Inkė
06-06-2014, 08:41 AM
It's mine too! :D

martin_b
06-06-2014, 02:24 PM
And mine!

(10 characters)

hani
06-06-2014, 04:19 PM
Letting You is one of the weakest NIN songs. I never liked it, and I have no idea why he'd play it live. There's something about the chorus that sounds off, probably the "WE'RE letting you get away". Why doesn't he sing "we're LETTING you get away"...

Echoplex is brilliant, one of my favorite post-With Teeth NIN songs. Not sure if it needs to be played live though.

Letting You was always pretty meh for me, the only weak moment on The Slip (yes, including Corona Radiata), but still, Echoplex is kinda cool live as a moment to take a deep breath, but come on, Head Down during LITS 2008 was the highlight.

Frydek
06-06-2014, 07:14 PM
I can understand why they play "hits" at every concert, but do they really have to play all of them? And at such predictable moments? I mean anyone who's seen NIN a few times can guess when Wish or MOTP will kick in. I don't know how many times I've seen them but I'm pretty sure Wish, Closer, MOTP, Hurt, HLAH, THTF (since 2005) and Gave Up were played every single time.

Having said that, when I saw them in London, the crowd was going crazy during these songs and few of us were excited about Sanctified, Disappointed, etc. I noticed it was during these songs that people went to the bathroom...

As to comparing US and European tours, it's in North America that I've seen the best NIN gigs. The European ones always feel slightly weaker. Setlists are better, visuals are better. Same story since TF era. I wish I still lived there for Tension!

PS: so many countries never get to see NIN so I won't complain

WorzelG
06-06-2014, 07:39 PM
As to comparing US and European tours, it's in North America that I've seen the best NIN gigs. The European ones always feel slightly weaker. Setlists are better, visuals are better. Same story since TF era. I wish I still lived there for Tension!

PS: so many countries never get to see NIN so I won't complain
Next time NIN tour in a few years hopefully, I think I'm going to persuade my family to go on holiday to Florida or New York that just happens to coincide with a few NIN shows.

halo eighteen
07-13-2014, 03:42 PM
Robin and Ally combined have played nearly every NIN song that has been played live. It's not that they can't be arsed, it's that they do not have infinite memory, and haven't rehearsed NIN's 200+ song catalogue. I guarantee even Trent couldn't play most instruments on some of those songs without checking things first.

I get that. I'm NOT knocking anyone currently in NIN. All I'm saying is if Trent wanted to play certain songs live, then the band members would have to learn them or program them or whatever the fuck they need to do to make it happen. That's pretty much their job. Tori Amos plays something like 150+ different songs every tour she does, and even when she has a band with her there's still TONS of variety.

example: Trent's isn't neglecting to perform the Perfect Drug because Ilan has never heard it. He's not doing it because he doesn't want to do it. To blame his band members is, at the very least, insulting to their abilities and status in the band.

elevenism
08-02-2014, 11:18 PM
I'm on the team of "play Ghosts I-IV in full with an orchestra"

I want something similar, just not all Ghosts.
I would LOVE to see trent at the piano, and either a small orchestra, or a bass player, percussionist, cello, violin...something like that.
And i would like to hear songs from the entire NIN catalog rearranged in this fashion.

And i feel VERY confident that we will get it one of these days, as i've stated before. I think Trent knows how to age gracefully.

On another note, why does everyone hate the slip?
I fucking LOVE it! The only thing i KINDA don't like are the verses to Head Down.

Well, i'm starting to really regret not buying tickets for the dallas show :( The setlists really aren't looking that bad.

sheepdean
08-02-2014, 11:50 PM
Oh I'd kill for an acoustic ("Quiet") tour too, but I feel that's unlikely as long as he keeps wanting to do double headline rock shows