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Shadaloo
12-02-2011, 11:14 AM
Because two delicious new reissues just came out, and more are on the way, because a new album (within an album) is in the works, because we miss the old members and hate the new or vicey vercey, and because Billy Corgan and his shiny bald head are entertaining.

Discuss these things and more.

I picked up the deluxe reissues Tuesday. A complaint seems to be that the drums are kinda buried in the mix, and Billy's vocals sound dry, and I agree to some extent. Haven't gotten around to listening to the bonus stuff yet. Either way, nowhere near as bad as some remasters I've heard, and well worth it for the sheer amount of stuff included.

october_midnight
12-02-2011, 11:28 AM
Adore is still my favorite SP album. That is all for now.

seasonsinthesky
12-02-2011, 11:40 AM
i think SD sounds better. i'm one of (probably a handful of) those people who didn't really get into Siamese Dream because my trial-by-fire was the premaster of Machina I, then Adore and MCIS; by the time i got to SD, the aspects that make its sound memorable were ones that turned me off. i find it easier to appreciate the classic now that the guitars sound more 'controlled' and the vocals dryer (imo), especially since they literally had this sound for one album, then ditched it for the much dryer and barebones MCIS.

i think "Pissant" and "Siamese Dream" demos fucking slay too, in part because they don't rely on the original SD sound.

haven't heard the new 2011 mixes of "Starla," etc. yet i'm willing to bet they're as bad as people are saying, though...

Piko
12-02-2011, 11:53 AM
Any idea when Oceania is supposed to drop? First, it was September, then it was November. Is there any kind of solid date or even an estimation?

spiral94
12-02-2011, 12:04 PM
did anyone that preordered the reissues get them yet? still waiting on mine

Endlessly
12-02-2011, 07:11 PM
I haven't ordered the reissues yet. I'd love to pick up Siamese Dream in particular (and Adore/Machina eventually), but am I the only one who thinks the new color scheme on the covers makes them look like awful bootlegs?

Piko: I think the latest estimate is that the release will be sometime in spring. I'd like to think that it'll be up streaming before that, but who knows? Oceania the song sounded damn good live, so here's hoping...

somewhatdamaged
12-02-2011, 07:19 PM
Adore is still my favorite SP album. That is all for now.

Agreed. Must admit though, I haven't seriously listened anything after this album. I kinda just heard the albums after Adore, if you know what I mean.

seasonsinthesky
12-02-2011, 09:09 PM
did anyone that preordered the reissues get them yet? still waiting on mine
waiting as well. was tempted to buy in store, but the only copies here were the single disc ones.

Space Suicide
12-02-2011, 09:35 PM
I stopped caring/following The Teargarden album after like the second song of the second EP. Worth a shit?

Clownboat
12-02-2011, 10:26 PM
My brother picked up the Siamese Dream remaster on vinyl the other day. The packaging is to die for.

Landshark
12-02-2011, 10:41 PM
I picked up both the reissues yesterday and havent checked out the bonus audio discs yet, but did watch most of the '93 show DVD that came with Siamese Dream. I forgot how good they were live back then - incredible show.

Presideo
12-02-2011, 11:06 PM
I stopped caring/following The Teargarden album after like the second song of the second EP. Worth a shit?

Nope - it's pitiful throughout. Hopefully Oceana can be a redemption album of sorts, but I highly doubt it.

spiral94
12-03-2011, 12:37 AM
so just listened to zwan again the other day ... lyric and honestly - forgot how great these are

plus i have a crush on paz

Piko
12-03-2011, 01:11 AM
Nope - it's pitiful throughout. Hopefully Oceana can be a redemption album of sorts, but I highly doubt it.

Dunno... Seems like he's realized how bad of an idea it was to do a song at a time and how unfocused it was.

frankie teardrop
12-06-2011, 12:05 PM
seeing the band live this tour was great...and of all the new songs played, the title track from oceania seemed the most promising--- one of the few times i've felt that billy's been "back on track" since restarting the band. that said, the setlist was to die-for, regardless of who's actually on stage.

imail724
12-06-2011, 03:04 PM
Like most of you, I'm worried for the new album, but I have to admit this has my hopes up:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNtnXKpbBlQ

Lessthanzero
12-07-2011, 05:37 AM
haven't heard the new 2011 mixes of "Starla," etc. yet — i'm willing to bet they're as bad as people are saying, though...

where are you hearing this?

Piko
12-07-2011, 07:44 AM
That song makes me hopeful.

seasonsinthesky
12-07-2011, 10:52 AM
i love reading Netphoria, shit is hilarious! they're right about the squishy dynamics, though i think it suits the sound of Siamese Dream quite well — for instance, "Hummer" is loud and ugly, but the quiet ending retains very similar dynamic range.

the drums always suffer, though...


where are you hearing this?
i wasn't at the time. mp3 copies of the reissues were around for days once copies started arriving to people. i'm currently listening to it now and, as predicted, it's not nearly as bad as Netphoria makes it seem ;)

poinoup
12-27-2011, 10:13 PM
http://crestfallen.com/2011/12/27/double-door-show-to-possibly-see-a-future-release/

1994 Double Door shows to be released? I hope this doesn't fall into the "promised but never released" category.

think i'm a fire engine
12-27-2011, 11:05 PM
Those new songs sound jizztastical. It doesn't sound like the old SP, but I like it with the same part of my brain as I do their old stuff without it feeling like a nostalgia act.

LaneSax
12-27-2011, 11:09 PM
The Metro dvd on the Siamese Dream reissue is really good. Makes me really miss the Pumpkins we first fell in love with. Killer setlist too.

ad infinitum
12-28-2011, 05:09 PM
I can't believe how fucking amazing the Siamese Dream remaster is. The album finally sounds the way I always wanted it to; I don't really give a shit about the bitching other fans are doing. Honestly, I can't really claim to be much of a SP fan, but I've always liked most of SD. The heaviness of the re-release melts my face like the original never did.

novacide
01-18-2012, 05:31 AM
The remasters? Wow.

R37R0
01-22-2012, 05:39 PM
Picked up the SD remaster yesterday. The bonus cd is great stuff and the the DVD is worth the price of the pack alone.

Highly Psychological
01-22-2012, 08:57 PM
Siamese Dream is wonderful. I cant help loving it. What does the remaster sound like? Part of that albums appeal was its vagueness and fuzzy whirlwind distortion ,still slighly headfucky. Its a strange record. I much prefer the shoegaze sound of the Smashing Pumpkins on Siamese Dream than the self concisely harder metal, classic rock sound they adopted on Mellon Collie. I felt that record was a step down from Siamese Dream is has its moments but its slightly bloated and trying too hard to 'outdo' everything that made Siamese Dream unique . Liked this band when they were more of weird slightly commercial shoegaze band, that had a singer with a goblin-esque voice. But was never too keen on the Led Zeppelin stadium 1996 version of Mellon Collie.

I always found Machina deeply underrated. That was their industrial Phase? Really great record, Billy and Flood together. I heard it the other day it sounds fantastic, Everlasting Gaze is proper cyber/metal/punk awesomeness. Everyone seemed to loose interest in the band around 2000 after Adore which is a shame because it meant Machina was overlooked a bit. I never thought it fitted when they were trying to be New Order with Adore, seems like the transition from Mellon Collie to a shaky synth pop sound was too drastic and too sudden for most people.
I have no heard a single note of new music from this group since they reformed. I want to now. I could imagine they might be good. But i always found it weird Billy reformed the band when he was so adamant in saying he never ever would back in 2000. Then the day With Teeth by NIN goes in at number 1 on the billboard charts he realizes 1990's alt rock bands still sell records so suddenly reforms the group??? Weird Why not just call it Billy Corgan or another band name? Continuation of his solo career? hhhhmmm. someone still wants more money! Dont blame him. As long as it gives him an excuse the bang the classics out live.
Also how weird was that bass player D'arcy? great bass player but she looked like such a miserable junkie bitch all the time. Her face looked like she was working in a cardbox factory when the band were playing onstage , cold cold woman. weird.
but i appreciate this group's stuff more now than ever.

allegro
01-22-2012, 09:42 PM
I just adore Billy not only because he's such a brilliant musician and artist but because he's such a wonderful human being and humanitarian and just an overall good and valuable person and citizen.

Billy and I both live in Highland Park, Illinois, and we each love Highland Park. Billy has a huge wonderful historic Adler on Lake Michigan, but he doesn't act like his shit don't stink. He is a regular at several venues and restaurants and shops in HP. And everybody remembers him and loves him, and we all treat him with respect and love, and he treats us likewise.

Most importantly, he's been such an awesome supporter of Titles on St. Johns in HP, a rare book store. Florence, one of the owners, became very ill, and Billy went to visit her every day in the hospital. He's like a son to Art and Florence.

http://indianhillmediaworks.typepad.com/titles/2011/08/index.html

And now he's going to open a tea house at the old Ravinia post office

There's even a Billy Corgan Roll at Happy Sushi in Ravinia.

Billy, we love you, please never leave HP. XOXO.

Here's hoping our beloved Cubbies finally win the World Series this year, under Theo Epstein.

Oh, yeah, and thanks for all the free stuff.

frankie teardrop
01-22-2012, 11:33 PM
in a world where everyone hates on billy corgan, that's a very nice thing to read.

novacide
01-23-2012, 07:09 AM
The end jam to "Silverfuck" on Earphoria gets me every time.

jmtd
01-23-2012, 09:38 AM
Good Interview with Corgan in this month's MOJO (the one with the New Order covers CD)

fillow
03-09-2012, 11:42 AM
Any news on Oceania?

Space Suicide
03-09-2012, 11:51 AM
Any news on Oceania?

Haha, of course not.

Endlessly
03-09-2012, 01:51 PM
Any news on Oceania?

Actually, yes, though not regarding a release date: http://mashable.com/2012/02/28/bill-corgan-sxsw-album/

It's now supposed to be an ~album experience~. Hate to say it, but however strong the material may be, I have very little faith that the release will work out well. Just look at how they've handled the official site in the past couple of years.

AgentofChaos
03-29-2012, 11:16 AM
Oceania will be released on 06/19 via EMI.

Here is an article with a past Corgan quote briefly discussing the recording; http://stereogum.com/987552/the-smashing-pumpkins-oceania-details/news/

Tracklist;

01 “Quasar/Stella P And The People Mover”
02 “Panopticon”
03 “The Celestials”
04 “Violet Rays”
05 “My Love Is Winter”
06 “One Diamond, One Heart”
07 “Pinwheels”
08 “Oceania”
09 “Pale Horse”
10 “The Chimera”
11 “Glissandra”
12 “Inkless”
13 “Wildflower”


Billy also recently did an interview with Alex Jones. Not going to get into my thoughts on him (hint: they're not particularly good) but it's relatively interesting and touches on a lot of social/political subjects.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/wrCBqYbvyUw

Billy interviews starts approx at the 1h 04m mark.

BlueCalx
03-29-2012, 11:39 AM
Is he still with that cult? I'm not trolling; the massive Rolling Stone piece published on Billy a few years ago had him talking about his role in an extremely dodgy L.A. spirituality scheme.

Billy's a pitiful son of a bitch. I wish him the best but can only anticipate the worst. One of my favourite critics, Matthew Perpetua, wrote an excellent short piece on Smashing Pumpkins' "Luna", which you can read here: http://www.fluxblog.org/2011/12/the-songs-to-see-you-through. As speculation on why he is the way he is goes, it's top-shelf.

Piko
03-29-2012, 02:39 PM
Wasn't aware of any cult. I remember reading an article that, while they were recording the Zwan album, that he would frequent some evangelical. Think he even called himself Billy Burke in the album credits. Might have been the Guy's name. Personally, Billy needs to keep his religion and faith out of his music. That's when it all started struggling.

frankie teardrop
03-29-2012, 03:05 PM
pretty sure billy's always flirted with spiritual overtones in some of the old material- both angst and reverence. perhaps not as blatant as it is now though.

Piko
03-29-2012, 03:11 PM
He made a few references on the older albums. But he didn't go basing almost entire albums based off his spirituality. He managed perfectly fine before he went all superchrist on us with Machina onwards. Machina was very god-like, but it wasn't as bad as being too blatant about it and writing entire songs about Jesus (Owata) . Happy Billy is fine. But a lot of this religious stuff just comes off forced most of the time.

AgentofChaos
04-01-2012, 12:47 PM
In an interview with ABC News Radio, frontman Billy Corgan says that he gave himself total creative freedom as he developed the songs for the album.
”We've shifted back into a mindset of, like, we must make great music at a very high level and if the song is 11 minutes long, well then that's, the song's 11 minutes long,” says the singer. “Oceania has two songs, like, one's seven minutes long, one's 10 minutes long. So, we're back in the mode of just, like, let's just make the best music possible.”
Corgan added that he had a wealth of material to choose from as he put the album together. “The 13 songs in Oceania are probably culled down from about 30 or 40 songs,” notes Corgan. “I kind of went into it how I'd made the albums in the '90s. The way I used to work would be like, 'OK, I'm going to take the best rock song, the best pop song, the best moody song and just go from there' and so I went back to the way that I used to work, and so it has that kind of sense of diversity in the album."

Oceania is now up for preorder on Amazon for Digipak and Vinyl BTW.

As far as the cult stuff goes, it's pretty baseless. He really just spent a lot of time in LA hanging out with some hippies a few years ago when he didn't know what to do with himself, sleeping on Kerry Brown's couch. Harmless stuff seeing as how the drug use was pretty limited; non existant on BC's part, and Kerry's kids were around quite often. Sadly however, Sky Saxson has passed (Freak), Mark Tulin (played bass at a few shows) has also passed, and he is also no longer working with/on good terms with producer Kerry Brown so he's definitely moved on from that phase of his life. A song like Quasar has spiritual undertones but is very broad, comparable to some earlier Pumpkins that merely brushed the subject. He spent a ton of time in Austrailia recently, and the rumor is Oceania is mostly about his time there and his relationship with his gf, one of the Veronicas. In the last year he has worked with Carina Round and Cherri Bomb on their new records in some capacity too (although it doesn't look like much from either sessions made the final cut). These days, it seems he has a new band manager, and is working on getting tighter with the band. That being said Jeff is always MIA or back at school, Nicole is doing her side project band, and Mike is still basically just a kid. I actually don't think he has much socializing time available now to be honest, since he his long distance relationship, a new wrestling promotion, the chicago tea house, his book, and the reissues to keep focused on outside of finishing up this record and working on the best way to promote/release it.

Also In case anyone was wondering, Oceania was produced/mixed by legendary Canadian Dave Bottril (King Crimson, Tool, Dream Theater, Peter Gabriel, Muse) which is a pretty good sign if you are worried about the Loudness wars... he discusses his thoughts here: http://shawnbradley.canadianmusician.com/?p=301


Apparently the other night there was an Oceania listening party according to at least one person on twitter; https://twitter.com/#!/StellaMowen/status/185520045743546368 although no details have been scrounged up yet.

Lastly, just because I'm feeling this vibe on a rainy Sunday afternoon, and I don't want to post any live spoilers Oceania tracks if you've been avoiding them, here's a clip that shows what Billy is still capable of. This was a couple years ago, during the Spirits in the Sky tour, probably the best thing they've ever done since the reunion in my opinion. It is a "loose" cover of Quicksilver Messenger Service's 'Long Haired Lady' featuring Dave Navarro. The quality of this clip is excellent, and the end is well, just hair stand straight up on your arm epic. If you have yet to experience this, enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga1qYDiIeOc

Piko
04-01-2012, 02:33 PM
My problem is with the teargarden stuff. Most of it just sounds lazy and rushed. So if he actually chilled out and took his time, the end product shouldn't be so bad. I know he's still got plenty of tricks left up his.sleeve.

allegro
04-01-2012, 02:45 PM
Aw, man, he should definitely keep Navarro on board. *sigh* Those two together, wow.


Billy's apparently a total workaholic: He's worked on this album, other people's albums, reissuing his own albums, he's opening a tea house this month, he's writing a book, he runs that Resistance Pro wrestling thing ... I don't think the guy ever sleeps.



Billy also recently did an interview with Alex Jones. Not going to get into my thoughts on him (hint: they're not particularly good) but it's relatively interesting and touches on a lot of social/political subjects. http://www.youtube.com/embed/wrCBqYbvyUw
Billy interviews starts approx at the 1h 04m mark.
Interesting interview, thanks.

BlueCalx
04-10-2012, 02:00 AM
Thanks for coming around with some straight talk, AgentofChaos. I'm actually excited for this now, and not just wincing about it. At least with Bottril on board, even if the songs are greasy ass, they'll sound pretty.

Piko
04-20-2012, 08:19 AM
Just heard Iha's new album. Pretty cool. Billy should get on his knees and beg for forgiveness.

AgentofChaos
04-27-2012, 11:15 PM
http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/images/story/smashing-pumpkins-reveal-oceania-cover-and-track-listing-20120427/1000x306/main.jpg

Sutekh
04-28-2012, 04:25 AM
The blog he wrote where he chucked someone out of his wedding reception was so funny. Love SP but billy is a bizarre character. Has anyone read that terrible bio of the pumpkins? Tales of a scorched earth or something. Its SO melodramatic and wannabe poetic, its hilarious. I am not exaggerating, it reads like "i am one burst from the earth in a shower of cobalt sparks, waking so many sleeping minds like a brilliant candle from the eye of orion"... I really felt like the author was sighing contently as she wrote it

fillow
04-28-2012, 04:47 AM
Judging by some 2011 soundboard live shows that I heard (which have 6 or 7 Oceania songs) the album's gonna be good. At least better then previous Teargarden material (which itself is not so bad to me, though I know most of you don't agree)

Piko
04-28-2012, 08:54 AM
I heard two of the songs and thought they were decent. YouTube videos though. I think he got the memo that the one song at a time thing wasn't so favorable.

ManBurning
05-01-2012, 01:52 PM
I haven't cared for anything this band (or should I just say Billy) has released since Zeitgeist in 2007.
I actually really, really enjoyed that album and it was an amazing comeback album from the Pumpkins.

All those mp3 recorded songs he shot out every other month were so bland and boring to me, they didn't pack a punch what-so-ever.
So I'm hoping they can redeem themselves with this one, I haven't listened to any of the bootlegged songs that were played on tour of the songs that will show up on this album, so i'm excited to sit down and listen to it all for the first time as a studio album.

I really enjoy the artwork though!

Piko
05-01-2012, 02:30 PM
Neither did I. I'm hopeful towards the new stuff though. Possibly Billy's return to form (hopefully). Artwork is pretty nifty.

frankie teardrop
05-04-2012, 01:13 PM
http://www.discogs.com/Smashing-Pumpkins-Blissed/release/3580547

released as a consolation gift for late shipping on gish & siamese dream. anyone know if 'blissed' is an exclusive song, or the infamous (and great) 'blissed and gone' from the adore sessions?

fillow
05-04-2012, 01:20 PM
From SP forums:
The song is an acoustic song. If I had to take a stab at it, I would put it around Mellon Collie. Kind of has that feel of songs on the Tonight, Tonight single.
The vocals are rather quiet but here are the first lines

In bliss what is missed
What is got forgotten
I’m asleep i can’t see
Everyone is laughing

Runs at about 3:00.

links can be found there: http://www.smashingpumpkins.com/board_new/index.php?showtopic=18358&st=528
didn't check the quality tho

frankie teardrop
05-04-2012, 01:25 PM
thanks! just found it on youtube via the link you posted. pretty good!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSOdiigrzX4&feature=youtu.be

will have to wait until tonight to download otherwise.

imail724
05-22-2012, 11:30 AM
Was just listening to some of the new songs (the live versions on youtube of course) and wow. I sincerely think this album will be pretty great.

Amaro
05-22-2012, 01:42 PM
So Teargarden was scrapped, or? (That piece of shit.)

Senateguard33
05-22-2012, 01:52 PM
I love The Smashing Pumpkins, although most of their catalog is just "average". Mellon Collie is one of my favorite albums of all time though. So Skinny Puppy has a couple of side projects projects....one being the Tear Garden (founded in 1986) and Ohgr's Welcome to Collidoskope (2010). Hmmmm.....

frankie teardrop
05-22-2012, 02:16 PM
pretty sure that's a coincidence.

Piko
05-22-2012, 05:45 PM
So Teargarden was scrapped, or? (That piece of shit.)

As of right now, no. Unless I had missed something.

Amaro
05-22-2012, 06:36 PM
As of right now, no. Unless I had missed something.

It sure seems like the timeframe of releasing Teargarden stuff has been scrapped...I just figured because he's onto this Oceania stuff. But then again isn't it somehow related to Teargarden?

poinoup
05-22-2012, 06:45 PM
Oceania is part of Teargarden, but it's own standalone album as well. An "album within an album", if that makes any sense.

I also read on Crestfallen that the Mellon Collie deluxe editions will have an alternate studio version of X.Y.U. on it, and that the SPRC will also be getting another version of X.Y.U in the near future. I wonder if it's a version like the live one off of The Friends & Enemies of Modern Music demo. I always thought that "Never Say Never" worked damn well in that version.

Piko
05-22-2012, 06:48 PM
Well, supposedly Oceania is part of the Teargarden stuff. But that was probably an excuse to release albums again. I wouldn't be surprised if he were scrap the idea after the album comes out. He has come out and said that the one song at a time idea didn't work. So my bet is that he'll either change the way he records for Teargarden (traditional EP and LP) , but just scrap it altogether.

frankie teardrop
05-29-2012, 07:34 AM
got this email this morning:


OCEANIA PRE-SALE BEGINS NOW AT WWW.SMASHINGPUMPKINS.COM (http://t.opsp.in/1EBfz)
We have also put all 2011 Tour Merch & Audio (http://t.opsp.in/1EBg0) on sale. Get it while you can, quantities are limited and we won't make more!
Thank you for supporting The Smashing Pumpkins and The Smashing Pumpkins Record Club.
<3SPRC

Piko
05-29-2012, 08:24 AM
Might have to partake in some of those live mp3s. Assuming the setlists are all different from one another?

seasonsinthesky
05-29-2012, 10:25 AM
^ http://www.spfc.org/tours/date.html?year=2011

AgentofChaos
05-29-2012, 09:04 PM
No they are pretty much all identical, save for a track or two.

Pinwheels was only played on a handful of nights, the best recording being the Detroit Fillmore. A few were missing Pale Horse. The first night at the Wiltern in LA is the only setlist with Suffer in it. And in Chicago they did a couple Catherine songs in encore.

But essentially the standard set was;

Quasar
Panopticon
Starla
Geek
Muzzle
Window
Lightning Strikes
Soma
Siva
Oceania
Frail and Bedazzled
Silverfuck
Obscured
Pale Horse
Ruby
Cherub Rock
Owata
My Love is Winter
For Martha
----
Pissant
Bullet




It was a fucking bad ass setlist with a lot of cool rarities, and most of the songs sounded tight. I can only hope some of the songs like Ruby, Geek, or Window stick around for the Oceania tour. The NY Terrminal Five show is probably the best quality, and the only show you really need if you want a good place to start. I have a few shows from the tour, so I just transitioned Suffer (after Obscured) and Pinwheels (to start the encore) into that show and made a 'The Other Side of the Kaleidyscope Tour' 2 disc set. I will throw it up on the bay later this week if anyone wants it. I believe Zero was the only other song played on the tour, and that was exclusive to the Europe encores, and there were no soundboards from board made available for those shows.



In other news, they played a not so secret warm up show last week in Spain, and then the Rock in Rio festival. The latter had the entire show proshot and is up and available to view here;


http://vimeo.com/42931928

The setlist was more hit heavy due to the festival, with a few nice nuggets left in (Starla), but they did bust out a Bowie cover of Space Oddity, and a Kiss cover of Black Diamond.

They also brought back a song I never expected to see again; XYU!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=bhQtA4SAHGc

I think they did it justice. Very cool to see after all these years.


Lastly, as mentioned Oceania pre-order is up on the site, with some decent bundles with hoodies and tees that save you a bunch, but there is also some horrid pricing for the downloads, and some even more brutal international shipping charges (40+ bucks in some cases). The regular digi is 15.99. Which is fine, except the download only is 14.99, and 17.99 for the high fidelity version. Laughable. I don't know how they justify that, so stupid. Basically telling those who don't want a physical copy to steal it. Whatever. I wanted to grab the hoodie + Vinyl, but weirdly they don't have any Vinyl bundles, only the digis. Plus as mentioned the shipping is insane for me, so I'll just end up picking it up in store on the day of, or ordering from amazon with a bunch of other records I've been meaning to buy. Outside of the discount on the merch, there is no other incentive to order from the official site.

Definitely pumped to finally hear Oceania. It's been a long wait. There are/were samples up on iTunes and Amazon, but I refused to listen to them. The record should be streaming in full from the site prior to release sometime in the next two weeks or so, I can wait a little longer.

LaneSax
05-29-2012, 10:31 PM
That Rock in Rio performance was pretty good. Was pleasantly surprised at the band's take on Pantera's Walk.

for those interested, here are sample clips from Oceania

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD9ytrwKRAs

imail724
06-11-2012, 08:22 PM
Album is streaming for free on iTunes. I haven't gotten a chance to listen yet but the reviews I'm reading have been very positive.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Piko
06-11-2012, 10:42 PM
Where on itunes? I looked, but haven't found anything about a stream.

AgentofChaos
06-11-2012, 10:47 PM
Believe it or not, it looks like Corgan knocked this one out of the park. All the SP fans, even the cynical ones, are praising the SHIT out of this record. A true return to form, supposedly. Can find hardly a single negative word about it across the internets.

Endlessly
06-11-2012, 11:12 PM
Listening to the stream right now. I'm not instantly blown away, but give me a few more listens through to decide whether I like it or not. (Then again, I hated Gish the first time I heard it, put it down for a couple of years, and fell in love when I picked it up again, so...)

I'll be at Metro on Thursday. Anyone else going?

Piko
06-11-2012, 11:28 PM
NM found it.

imail724
06-11-2012, 11:32 PM
http://www.iTunes.com/SmashingPumpkins

I think Billy can now be forgiven for zeitgeist and teargarden. This album is fantastic.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Piko
06-11-2012, 11:35 PM
Just skimming through right now. And I can already say it's miles ahead of Zeitgeist and Teargarden. The follow up that Machina deserved perhaps?

AgentofChaos
06-11-2012, 11:40 PM
Just skimming through right now. And I can already say it's miles ahead of Zeitgeist and Teargarden. The follow up that Machina deserved perhaps?

In fairness, Machina got the follow up it deserved, Machina II. That record kicks major fucking ass, despite some of the grainy production, which in some ways is actually part of its charm.

Piko
06-12-2012, 12:02 AM
Was actually referring to Machina as a whole (both parts). Zeitgeist failed to live up to either. And teargarden was just a mess that would make you actually consider Zeitgeist to actually be a good album, which it isn't.

ManBurning
06-12-2012, 12:59 AM
http://www.iTunes.com/SmashingPumpkins

I think Billy can now be forgiven for zeitgeist and teargarden. This album is fantastic.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Here's one of the reasons I still hang around these forums, thanks very much for the heads up!

AgentofChaos
06-12-2012, 01:26 AM
Was actually referring to Machina as a whole (both parts). Zeitgeist failed to live up to either. And teargarden was just a mess that would make you actually consider Zeitgeist to actually be a good album, which it isn't.

Cool. Yeah, I hear ya. I don't know though, I still look back at the Zeitgeist era relatively favorably. The If All Goes Wrong DVD highlighted the best parts for me. AOL Sessions. Gossamer. The darkness of the 20th anniversary tour. It's all good shit, even if the record itself on the whole wasn't up to par. Even the extended version, with all 4 bonus tracks, improves things greatly. But I digress. Oceania is blowing my mind right now.

Harry Seaward
06-12-2012, 04:48 AM
You guys know where to find this anywhere else besides iTunes? I'd like to hear it, but I won't install iTunes just for that.

Max Leo
06-12-2012, 05:41 AM
You guys know where to find this anywhere else besides iTunes? I'd like to hear it, but I won't install iTunes just for that.
Check out a russian site called mediaboom.org, I don't know if I may post a direct link to the album, but that site always has every leaked/released new album, and I'm downloading Oceania from there right now.

Christo
06-12-2012, 06:26 AM
Am on the second track and it's actually fairly decent. What the hell happened?!

Piko
06-12-2012, 07:26 AM
Check out a russian site called mediaboom.org, I don't know if I may post a direct link to the album, but that site always has every leaked/released new album, and I'm downloading Oceania from there right now. Can't find a link to download...

edit - nm

frankie teardrop
06-12-2012, 08:02 AM
looks like it's gone already. dang.

nvm- soulseek to the rescue!

Piko
06-12-2012, 08:15 AM
Or, it was dragged away and being held by a demon. ;)

Kodiak33
06-12-2012, 09:34 AM
Even though I don't think his singing/lyrics are very good anymore...the music part of this is awesome so far.

frankie teardrop
06-12-2012, 10:16 AM
after giving it one listen, that's the conclusion i come to as well. musically, it's the best thing he's done since the reunion. lyrically and vocally, it's still coming up short. while i understand that folks grow up and grow out, i miss the melancholy/angst aspect of the pumpkins, which has been long gone since zwan. in fact, the new record comes off like a much better zwan. the lyrics are just so... positive. which again, well and good and i'm glad billy is in a much better place, but it's not what i'm looking for.

so, while i like it a fair amount, i just have to get over the fact that i'll never hear a new pumpkins song with that same magic.

Reznor2112
06-12-2012, 12:38 PM
Billy Corgan interviewing Rush

http://soundcloud.com/fmqb-productions/inside-rush-clockwork-angels

AgentofChaos
06-12-2012, 12:40 PM
Listened to it 5 times now since last night. I've truly fallen in love. It's exactly what I wanted. So fucking good. To me, it's still one big piece with various twists and turns, I even don't have tracks I like or dislike, I simply dig the entire experience. A summer record if there ever was one.

imail724
06-12-2012, 12:46 PM
It definitely exceeded all expectations. After only 2 listens I think the standouts so far are Pinwheels, Pale Horse, Glissandra and Inkless. Surely these will change.

frankie teardrop
06-12-2012, 12:48 PM
'glissandra' was a standout for me, too. feel those my bloody valentine tones!

neorev
06-12-2012, 01:27 PM
i quite enjoyed "Zeitgeist"
"Mellon Collie" and "Adore" are my favorite albums from them

...but unfortunately i'm not feeling this new album
listening to the full album stream and nothing really is gelling with me
"Zeitgeist," even if it was just Billy and Jimmy, still felt more Pumpkins than this...
I mean, its not horrible or anything... it just doesn't feel like a Pumpkins follow up
Maybe a Zwan follow up, just feels all too light-hearted
And Im not feeling the lyrics on this one
:(

BlueCalx
06-12-2012, 05:06 PM
Yeah, my opinion skews along the same lines as everyone else who's posted here. It's so much fun to listen to, it reminds me of Rush, Jean Michel Jarre, even a very tiny bit of Tangerine Dream. It's got the best guitar playing I've heard from Corgan since friggin' Mellon Collie. His vocals don't bother me, but I'm one of those who never thought Corgan's singing was anything to write home about. His lyrics here are pure derp. At this point, Corgan's lyrics sound best when he's either hammering on about his usual vaguely religious nonsense or going further into full-on word association psychedelia. When he tries to talk about how happy he is and how great everything's going to be from now on, he sounds unconvincing. His extreme anxiety seeps through at every seam; I think that nervousness was what turned a lot of people off Zwan, and it's in effect here as well. Billy Corgan is, like a classic dictator, scariest when he's in a good mood.

Amaro
06-12-2012, 07:58 PM
Can't listen/enjoy if the vocals suck. I could care less if the lyrics are uppers; for me the problem lies in how he sounds.

Moving on...

Cameron
06-12-2012, 08:14 PM
does anyone here post over at the netphoria forum? They are killing these re-issues for their sound quality

not saying I agree with them (both sound quite good to me), but it's funny to see some of the shit those people are saying..

Yeah, I'm there.

The new version of SP is awful, though. The new drummer is horrendous. Corgan needs to change the name and stop playing old Pumpkins hits.

poinoup
06-12-2012, 08:21 PM
Upon first listen this morning, I really enjoyed it all the way through. I felt like it was the early 90s when I first started it. It's got the soul of the early Pumpkins with a modern spin.

I had to remind myself it was Billy and three "new" members a few times throughout, though, and yet it still had a "Pumpkins" feel to it. I have to give it a few more listens for a good feel of the album...but Pale Horse was awesome as hell.

I also avoided the live versions of the songs and wanted to go in to this album not hearing a second of it, and that helped. I still like Zeitgeist for what it was, and the American Gothic EP was a great addition to it. The Teargarden stuff has been more hit than miss with me too. I thought I'd have to force myself to like the new stuff, but I did not need to with tracks like Astral Planes and Lightning Strikes.

Vocally, I thought he sounded really good, not forced to the front of every song, and it's nice having other singers on backup, not the 1000 Billy choir. Far better mixed than Zeitgeist.

Reznor2112
06-12-2012, 09:08 PM
awesome SP record nuff said

Piko
06-12-2012, 11:25 PM
It has background vocals! That's a huge plus. Billy doing his own backup was kinda lame. This album is a gigantic step up. Musically, it sounds like he's finally going with the flow than forcing out teargarden-like songs. Feels and sounds far more natural.

My only gripe so far are the keyboards. Enough of the keyboards!

BlueCalx
06-12-2012, 11:48 PM
I love the keyboards! Space is the plaaaaaace!

liquidcalm
06-13-2012, 02:33 AM
so far its been 50/50... parts are great, some are still almost cringe-worthy. Often within the same song.. It sounds more Zwan-ish than anything released as Pumpkins in the last few years. Gonna find a way to give it more of a listen in my car or at work though, it feels like it needs a good few listens to get into everything.

Self.Destructive.Pattern
06-13-2012, 02:50 AM
^^^ I agree. Even though I haven't listened to the album in it's entirety, sometimes one song sounds like two different songs. Some parts make me turn my head, then it goes in a totally different direction I thought it was going to. I am enjoying Pale Horse at the moment.

AgentofChaos
06-13-2012, 05:30 AM
FYI I finally threw up that collection on the bay basically compiling the entire Teargarden Era (09-12) of the 'new' band, from A Song For a Son to Oceania and everything in between, including all the SPRC releases, and a live soundboard mix from the 2011 tour Other Side of the Kaleidyscope Tour featuring cuts of Oceania, Pale Horse, My Love is Winter, Pinwheels, Quasar and Panopticon. PM for a link if you need it.

slave2thewage
06-13-2012, 07:05 AM
Pinwheels is my personal stand-out track right now, but overall it's a surprisingly good album. Kudos to you, silly bald man.

Sutekh
06-13-2012, 01:33 PM
Corgan blasts "pomposity", insinuates radiohead are overrated
http://legacy.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=175390

pmsl

seasonsinthesky
06-13-2012, 02:16 PM
"Violet Rays" is AMAZING. reserving further opinions for later.

liquidcalm
06-13-2012, 03:59 PM
Corgan blasts "pomposity", insinuates radiohead are overrated
http://legacy.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=175390

pmsl

Ha! When he whines about music not being dangerous and this new album of theirs is possibly the least offensive thing I've heard this year.

poinoup
06-13-2012, 11:44 PM
One day later I'm still liking the vibe of the record. Damn solid disc.

Love the bass intro in Quasar, the entire intro sounds like it could have been on Gish or Siamese Dream. The Celestial, Violet Rays, Pale Horse are the three most standing out tracks now. All in all, I'm impressed.

ManBurning
06-14-2012, 12:53 AM
Oh God, I feel really bad saying this but... I don't like the new album - at all! I tried hard to get into it, gave it 4 listens, but The only song I like is Quasar.
Which is interesting as it's the first song. Everything just went downhill after that.

I loved Zeitgeist, I thought that was a really solid rock album. Great comeback from their "breakup". However, this album... meh, just sounds a little too experimental. It's like the same stuff he's been doing in between the last "real" album and this one, all those random one-off b-side songs he would release every other week/month. I didn't care for any of them to be honest, and this is more of the same stuff.

Oh well, That's my opinion, alot of people here seem to be raving about this one, but I can't share the same Enthusiasm as you on this one.

Billy Corgan is extremely hit or miss. He has put out some goddamn amazing stuff, but he has put out some real fluff as well. Everything up to and including Adore was amazing, then Machina came out and that's when he started getting a little too experimental for me. Then Machina 2 came out (to the internet) and he really lost me there. That's why I was a little skeptial with the "reformation" and Zeitgeist, but I was blown away. It was an amazing album, I still love it, in fact I threw it on just after listening to Oceania and I apreciated it much more.

Also, Zwan was AMAZING, I might be in the minority on that one, but I really, really enjoyed his Zwan stuff. I wish there was a second album. His Billy Corgan Solo effort - "The Future Embrace" was another example of hit/miss Billy. Some of the songs on there were amazing, absolutly amazing, but there were some real hardcore flops on that album as well.

Presideo
06-14-2012, 02:02 AM
Pleasantly surprised by Oceania. It's like Corgan actually stopped to think about what makes an actual SP album before writing, and he nailed it. Anthemic stadium rock similar to Siamese Dream (Quasar, Inkless) coupled with endearing, wistful tracks akin to Adore (Violent Rays, Pale Horse) is what I expect a 2012 SP record to sound like. Billy's guitar work is at its best and I'm surprised that the drums were prominently displayed throughout the album (thought they might have gone the Adore route with the percussion) I think if Chamberlin knew Corgan would make an album like this he might have stayed.

Favorites were Quasar, Pinwheels, and the title track.


I loved Zeitgeist, I thought that was a really solid rock album. Great comeback from their "breakup". However, this album... meh, just sounds a little too experimental. It's like the same stuff he's been doing in between the last "real" album and this one, all those random one-off b-side songs he would release every other week/month. I didn't care for any of them to be honest, and this is more of the same stuff.
Sorry, but Zeitgeist was atrocious - there was no pulse whatsoever in most of those tracks, especially the second half. I still cringe at the mere thought of songs like Bleeding the Orchid or For God and Country. And the fact that there were 12 (yes, 12) different versions of that album make it painfully obvious that it was a cash-grab. The new album isn't perfect or anything, but it's certainly a better attempt than the abomination that is Zeitgeist (sorry for the rant, I just recently listened to that album for the first time in years and had to get my hatred for it off my chest)

Self.Destructive.Pattern
06-14-2012, 02:54 AM
Sorry, but Zeitgeist was atrocious - there was no pulse whatsoever in most of those tracks, especially the second half. I still cringe at the mere thought of songs like Bleeding the Orchid or For God and Country. And the fact that there were 12 (yes, 12) different versions of that album make it painfully obvious that it was a cash-grab. The new album isn't perfect or anything, but it's certainly a better attempt than the abomination that is Zeitgeist (sorry for the rant, I just recently listened to that album for the first time in years and had to get my hatred for it off my chest)

There were a couple of good tracks on Zeitgeist, but that album was just so bland to me. It was such a departure from the band musically I really could not get into it. And didn't they make a black covered issue for the album that had the content the other albums had later down the road anyway??

AgentofChaos
06-14-2012, 07:56 AM
There were a couple of good tracks on Zeitgeist, but that album was just so bland to me. It was such a departure from the band musically I really could not get into it. And didn't they make a black covered issue for the album that had the content the other albums had later down the road anyway??

http://991.com/NewGallery/Smashing-Pumpkins-Zeitgeist---CDDVD-420392.jpg

Best buy exclusive, it had 3 of the 4 bonus tracks (minus the title track Zeigeist itself) grafted into the tracklisting plus a bonus dvd 'Inside the Zeitgeist'.

Probably the best version of the album to own, specifically for Ma Belle alone. Not sure why they couldn't have tacked on Zeitgeist at the end. Perfect acoustic closer to a hard rock record. I'm confident had they released only one version with all 16 tracks on the first go around, the album would have been more widely regarded.

Piko
06-14-2012, 07:57 AM
I didn't mind the first half of Zeitgeist. The second half sucked. The first half was listenable but nothing to brag about. They sounded better live though. He wanted to make a rock album without all of the qualities of why he brought it back in the first place. Said enough about the Teargarden stuff. This is the album Zeitgeist should have been.

AgentofChaos
06-14-2012, 08:05 AM
A 2nd half with Stellar, Ma Belle, and Zeitgeist would've changed things dramatically, no?

fillow
06-14-2012, 08:06 AM
Death From Above!

Piko
06-14-2012, 08:09 AM
A 2nd half with Stellar, Ma Belle, and Zeitgeist would've changed things dramatically, no?

Ma Belle, maybe. I didn't like the other extra ones otherwise.

AgentofChaos
06-14-2012, 08:25 AM
Death From Above!


The studio version is utterly ruined for me upon seeing this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvWLlHr_7Cw


SOOO much better. Similar to the acoustic version of For God and Country

Piko
06-14-2012, 08:57 AM
The studio version is utterly ruined for me upon seeing this


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvWLlHr_7Cw


SOOO much better. Similar to the acoustic version of For God and Country

Alright, that sounds much better. The live versions seem better than the studio versions. I can't stand the studio version of Starz, but the live version is decent. I liked United States, but something seemed wrong about it. The live version of that is amazing. Same goes for Bleeding the Orchid. I never liked For God and Country, so I'm curious to hear that acoustic version. Maybe the fault is the production? I don't think ill ever be able to get into Bring The Light and Neverlost. I don't think live versions could even.begin to save those.

frankie teardrop
06-14-2012, 10:28 AM
Oh God, I feel really bad saying this but... I don't like the new album - at all! I tried hard to get into it, gave it 4 listens, but The only song I like is Quasar.
Which is interesting as it's the first song. Everything just went downhill after that.

I loved Zeitgeist, I thought that was a really solid rock album. Great comeback from their "breakup". However, this album... meh, just sounds a little too experimental. It's like the same stuff he's been doing in between the last "real" album and this one, all those random one-off b-side songs he would release every other week/month. I didn't care for any of them to be honest, and this is more of the same stuff.

Oh well, That's my opinion, alot of people here seem to be raving about this one, but I can't share the same Enthusiasm as you on this one.

Billy Corgan is extremely hit or miss. He has put out some goddamn amazing stuff, but he has put out some real fluff as well. Everything up to and including Adore was amazing, then Machina came out and that's when he started getting a little too experimental for me. Then Machina 2 came out (to the internet) and he really lost me there. That's why I was a little skeptial with the "reformation" and Zeitgeist, but I was blown away. It was an amazing album, I still love it, in fact I threw it on just after listening to Oceania and I apreciated it much more.

Also, Zwan was AMAZING, I might be in the minority on that one, but I really, really enjoyed his Zwan stuff. I wish there was a second album. His Billy Corgan Solo effort - "The Future Embrace" was another example of hit/miss Billy. Some of the songs on there were amazing, absolutly amazing, but there were some real hardcore flops on that album as well.

i was way into zwan when the album came out, but my tastes and expectations changed drastically in college as i grew into things. that said, most of the best zwan stuff remains unreleased outside of radio sessions & bootlegs, including 99% of their first few shows, which were way better than what the album turned out to be in the end. what a cesspool that turned out to be, from all the rants billy had about it. i think it's what made him realize that while the pumpkins had their drama, it was a family.

as for zeitgeist, i agree that the extra tracks were better and that the first half of the album was good by "rock" standards but was nothing special. i get lost on the second half as well, but in general, the production kills it for me on most modern recordings he's made, including the new one, which i've yet to give a second spin but probably should before talking more smack.

i like a fair amount of the future embrace, but i'm a synth kid who likes nitzer ebb (bon harris was involved) and grew up with shoegaze, so that's to be expected. i still think mina loy is the best thing billy's done since the split:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM6KDQNxLKM

i fucking love machina/machina II though. could do without a few tracks on each, but i grew to love both. i was a major adore head in high school (again, synth nerd/nighttime music enthusiast) so it was a bit of a shock when it came out, but i love it now. it seems like billy got a lot of shit for anything put out after mellon collie (unfair expectations) so i wonder what would have happened if things continued along the post-machina path. i was all for the gothic/glam pumpkins, and i guess that's what i miss about this modern era. more psychedelic/classic rock referenced, and though i love gish, it doesn't click for me on the new material.

blah blah blah blah, sorry!

Piko
06-14-2012, 10:38 AM
I actually really enjoyed his solo album. My friends all hated it. Swan's a mixed bag. Some of it, I really enjoy. And some of it, I never want to hear again. The Machina albums were ace. I used to hate the first one. Loved the second one, instantly. The first one eventually grew on me. Amazing album. There's some stuff with Oceania that doesn't particularly click with me, but it doesn't take too much away from the album.

AgentofChaos
06-14-2012, 12:53 PM
Acoustic For God and Country. Again, much better. I believe there is a better version floating around if I am not mistaken, but this was all I could find for now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a3dTGtY8pE


I loved Machina I/II obviously, so afterwards I really could not get into Zwan much at all, just wasn't what I wanted (outside of songs like 'Of a Broken Heart'). Rarely ever listen to that record. Djali Zwan however, was fucking amazing. Sad that stuff never really saw the light of day. That to me was up there with best post Machina work until Oceania.

I loved Future Embrace too. Mina Loy was sick. The Camera Eye. A100. Tilt. I never understood why that album got trashed the way it did.

Amaro
06-14-2012, 09:23 PM
I'm kinda interested in The Future Embrace now...

Piko
06-14-2012, 11:48 PM
Acoustic For God and Country. Again, much better. I believe there is a better version floating around if I am not mistaken, but this was all I could find for now.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a3dTGtY8pE

I loved Machina I/II obviously, so afterwards I really could not get into Zwan much at all, just wasn't what I wanted (outside of songs like 'Of a Broken Heart'). Rarely ever listen to that record. Djali Zwan however, was fucking amazing. Sad that stuff never really saw the light of day. That to me was up there with best post Machina work until Oceania.

I loved Future Embrace too. Mina Loy was sick. The Camera Eye. A100. Tilt. I never understood why that album got trashed the way it did.

Much better! And I think people trashed the solo album because it simply wasn't what they were expecting. It was very minimal compared to the other stuff he's done, and that probably threw them off. A lot of people probably had the same feeling about Adore, and a lot of people seem to love that album now.

ManBurning
06-15-2012, 12:44 AM
The thing I liked the most about the future embrace was it's eletronic feel to it. I think that's why I enjoyed that album a hell of a lot more than anything he put our between Adore and it.

I like electronic pumpkins and hard rock pumpkins, I just don't care for generic soft-rock put you to sleep pumpkins, and I think that's why I don't care for Oceania that much, it's just waaaay too soft!

frankie teardrop
06-15-2012, 10:14 AM
well, i do like their earlier soft/pretty moments. i present these gems for consideration

medellia of the grey skies (tonight tonight b-side, slays me)
set the ray to jerry
to sheila
once in a while
luna
purr snickety
thirty three
to forgive
soothe
cherry
soot & stars

i mean, they used to EXCEL at the acoustic, somber, lullabye kind of stuff. i know you're moreso referring to the upbeat, positive, dad-rock zwan thing (which i can't really abide much), but i felt the need to defend the pumpkins' pretty side.

frankie teardrop
06-15-2012, 10:16 AM
sorry for the second post in a row, but this was a separate thought. i hope the early, gothy demos get mastered/cleaned up/officially released one of these days. i listen to this song all the damn time (straight up cure- 'in your house' vibes)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKr8KXXCw5o

PhoenixML
06-15-2012, 12:47 PM
What's the "general" concensus on Machina I "vs" Machina II? Do people consider Machina II not a real album, demo, better than I?

frankie teardrop
06-15-2012, 01:37 PM
i like it better than I, personally (though i enjoy both albums), but for clerical purposes, consider it a double album- even though it's actually one album + three EPs. wondering how they'll handle the reissues of those records...

Endlessly
06-15-2012, 02:14 PM
sorry for the second post in a row, but this was a separate thought. i hope the early, gothy demos get mastered/cleaned up/officially released one of these days.

Yeah, here's hoping! A journalist friend of mine was on the Oceania listening-party cruise, and he mentioned that they dug out Bleed during the mini-set-- hopefully Billy's feeling kindly disposed towards the pre-Gish stuff. (Or is that one of the things that "Lucky 13" is supposed to decide on?)

The charity gig at Metro was kind of weird. SP didn't go on until 11, and the set was mostly hits, with just a couple of Oceania songs in the middle. They did open with that KISS cover that has Mike on vocals, and for the encore they covered Space Oddity, then did X.Y.U. Oh, and they used Tonite Reprise as an intro to Tonight, Tonight, which was really nice. Billy seemed to be in a great mood. I'm counting on them coming back around on the full Oceania tour-- that should be cool to see.

seasonsinthesky
06-15-2012, 03:49 PM
sorry for the second post in a row, but this was a separate thought. i hope the early, gothy demos get mastered/cleaned up/officially released one of these days. i listen to this song all the damn time (straight up cure- 'in your house' vibes)

is that not the stuff getting released with Pisces Iscariot's reissue?

frankie teardrop
06-15-2012, 03:56 PM
hadn't heard that until now--- but there's obviously 2-3 cds worth of material from the pre-gish days, so i'm sure a lot of it won't make the cut. but holy shit they better use 'i fall' and 'jennifer ever.'

edit: i see it'll be a repro of the original demo tape, which yes, has jennifer. but the point about excluding some remains. i don't buy cds anymore (was opting for vinyl) but might get both versions if that's the case.

Piko
06-15-2012, 08:00 PM
What's the "general" concensus on Machina I "vs" Machina II? Do people consider Machina II not a real album, demo, better than I?

I consider it a double album. It was supposed to be released as a double, but Virgin didn't go for it since.Adore sold so well. I prefer the second one. Just has a lot more going on musically. But it also comes off like it was very rushed post-production. The mixing on some songs seem almost non-existent (looking at you, White Spyder). It could certainly use a huge touch-up. What intriques me about the reissue is that Billy wants to mix them differently than the originals instead of just remastering. Could be real interesting or not so pleasant. I'm hoping that perhaps he could make the double album the way it was supposed to be without sacrificing too much of the originals. We have.quite awhile for that though.

Presideo
06-16-2012, 11:13 AM
What's the "general" concensus on Machina I "vs" Machina II? Do people consider Machina II not a real album, demo, better than I?
I didn't care for Machina I. Trying to listen to the entire album always felt like a chore, which is definitely not how you want to feel when listening to something. It felt very dragged out and tedious. Not many standout tracks, and only a few songs translated well live ('Glass and the Ghost Children' completely deflated the arena when I saw them a few years ago) Machina II was great, though. It felt more organic and well-organized than Machina I. Glad it's getting a remaster - I'd love to hear how a touched-up version of 'Real Love' would sound like.

Piko
06-17-2012, 04:51 PM
I didn't care for Machina I. Trying to listen to the entire album always felt like a chore, which is definitely not how you want to feel when listening to something. It felt very dragged out and tedious. Not many standout tracks, and only a few songs translated well live ('Glass and the Ghost Children' completely deflated the arena when I saw them a few years ago) Machina II was great, though. It felt more organic and well-organized than Machina I. Glad it's getting a remaster - I'd love to hear how a touched-up version of 'Real Love' would sound like.

The greatest hits album has a cleaned up version of Real Love. Beats me why it sounds so rough on the album.

frankie teardrop
06-17-2012, 05:07 PM
vinyl mastering/transferring is really tricky. likely they sourced the greatest hits copy from the master tapes, mixed it properly for the cd.

Highly Psychological
06-17-2012, 07:10 PM
Billy Corgan is insanely underrated as a guitarist. He was fucking mind blowing on the axe. But nobody really acknowledges it? That much....

There are good guitarists who are in huge bands, then there are the newer guitar legends who are lumped in with Eric Clapton and Hendrix.

Probably one of the top 3 American guitarists to emerge from the 1990s. Way better than anyone from Pearl Jam, Nirvana, other huge alt rock bands.

I definitely think he is veering towards the guitar legend territory. I saw the Pumpkins again recently and he went off into this massive guitar jack off session where he was essentially showing off to the audience. And rightly so. His skills. jesus, he was INSANE. He is nearly as good as his obvious influence Bob Mould. Just those solos are crazy and all the effects. He has always been quite modest i think. About time he was recognized.

You can hear it in the records from the 1990s.

Im not the biggest Pumpkins fan....i love Siamese Dream, but Machina Part 1 is what it is all about for me at the moment. What a lost under appreciated classic has this gorgeous rainy day weird industrial/Shoegaze/folk hybrid thing going on. Flood/Moulder and the Pumpkins went really well together almost as good as when they collaborated with Trent. Quite a cold album but its probably one of the great lost records of the 2000's. they should re-issue it.

imail724
06-17-2012, 07:19 PM
They're planning on reissuing it. Next year I believe.

Piko
06-17-2012, 11:35 PM
Yeah, it's next year... still waiting on the Mellon Collie reissue. That feels like forever...

imail724
06-18-2012, 10:34 AM
Well Pisces comes out in a month so hopefully that'll tide us over till the end of the year when Mellon collie, and I believe the aeroplane as well, come out.

In other news I just listened to Billy's solo album for the first time and really enjoyed it.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

seasonsinthesky
06-18-2012, 10:37 AM
indeed, the MCIS reissue is going to be incredible. the remaining reissues after PI are where the gold is, imo; i'll be dropping the cash on MCIS, TAFH, Adore, and the Machinas for sure. there's just way too much amazing material (even if the bonus discs are full of alternate/new mixes) to be let down, imo.

however, i really hate that there's no package that includes the physical digital (CD+DVD or whatever) and the hi-res download. i bought the Gish and SD deluxe packages, but ended up getting the 24/96 transfers elsewhere because i wasn't about to drop another $20-something just for them alone.

Shadaloo
06-18-2012, 12:21 PM
Liking Oceania, but not loving it. It's nice, and has some great moments, but it's very soft almost all the way through. It's not who he is anymore, but I do miss angry Billy.

And damned if the title track's opening synth and xylophone don't remind me of Final Fantasy VII's main theme.

AgentofChaos
06-18-2012, 01:34 PM
FYI Regarding Machina/Machina II, it's actually being reissued as the 2 disc set it was intended to be, resequenced and all. So while it's a little blasphemous, the originals will all still be available, and those intrigued as to how Machina would sound like with Slow Dawn, Speed Kills, Vanity, Saturnine, etc remastered and mixed in, you shall be getting your wish. In my opinion, the potential crown jewel of the reissue project. It could either be epicly cool, or a huge fucking failure, but at the very least it's a highly interesting experiment.

seasonsinthesky
06-18-2012, 01:36 PM
^ it's actually possible that both parts will be even re-mixed from the ground up, which makes it even more attractive as a result of the reissue project :O

Piko
06-18-2012, 02:22 PM
^ it's actually possible that both parts will be even re-mixed from the ground up, which makes it even more attractive as a result of the reissue project :O

Seemed like that's what he wants to do. Maybe he can flesh out the concept he had originally aimed for. Because as concept albums, they fail. Plenty of the songs have recurring themes, but never did I get the idea that it tells a story about a man hearing the voice of God on his radio and transforming into something else. That would be cool if he were to do that. But then again, he doesn't seem flattered by the concept these days. He said in some interview that he has no idea what he was trying to do then, heh.

frankie teardrop
06-18-2012, 02:38 PM
i don't mind if all the songs get re-integrated into a more streamlined running order... but i'm hoping he doesn't cut any of the tracks permanently from either the first or second disc (or third, which is likely to exist if all the machina-era material gets put out). i don't see why he'd delete any of the tracks outright (hopefully the ones that were intended as b-sides/extras would be included elsewhere), but i can't help but be a little paranoid...

Piko
06-18-2012, 06:35 PM
I figure he might add songs actually. Because if I recall, Speed Kills was cut from the album. So maybe that'll be added back in. I'm wondering if we'll get a new track order and mix? The mix seems pretty likely

Shadaloo
06-19-2012, 08:35 PM
As much as I'm looking forward to the Machina releases, the mention of five CDs worth of extra Mellon Collie material has me soiling myself. That'll tide me over.

http://www.craveonline.com/music/articles/190621-interview-billy-corgan-of-smashing-pumpkins

frankie teardrop
06-19-2012, 08:53 PM
i just got back from the iheartradio show in NYC. my ears are still ringing.

setlist was short, but sweet:
black diamond
zero
bullet with butterfly wings
today
quasar
panopticon
the celestials
space oddity

encore:
cherub rock
x.y.u.

the new sounds sounded vital, the classics rang true and emotional, the covers were interesting enough to be fun, and x.y.u. owned.

slave2thewage
06-19-2012, 09:20 PM
Oh, I watched the stream of that. Seemed like a good little show.

liquidcalm
06-20-2012, 02:20 AM
As much as I'm looking forward to the Machina releases, the mention of five CDs worth of extra Mellon Collie material has me soiling myself. That'll tide me over.

http://www.craveonline.com/music/articles/190621-interview-billy-corgan-of-smashing-pumpkins

At least its split between Mellon Collie and Aeroplane Flies High.. Those 2, and Machine 1 + 2 are the things I'm interested in. I still remember downloading Machina 2, track by track at about 3kbps...

littlemonkey613
06-20-2012, 07:36 PM
Do people like Oceana? I think its awesome......but I'm not a die hard fan or anything. I'm probably just dying for that hard guitar in this music climate.

Piko
06-20-2012, 08:02 PM
I like it. Easily, the best thing Billy's done in a real long time. Very "happy" album. Perhaps too much? Musically, it's a juggernaut. Anything and everything the Teargarden stuff was missing, Oceania has. Even enjoying the contributions from the new band. They really shined well here as a unit. I try to ignore the lyrics and go straight for the overall package. Seems to work out for me. That was the thing I disliked mostly about Zwan, the lyrics. This sounds like a Smashing Pumpkins album.

Shadaloo
06-21-2012, 01:03 PM
At least its split between Mellon Collie and Aeroplane Flies High.. Those 2, and Machine 1 + 2 are the things I'm interested in. I still remember downloading Machina 2, track by track at about 3kbps...

True that, but I'm wondering how Aeroplane specifically is going to be handled. Would they do another huge box? That thing's loved for its b-sides...Wouldn't surprise me if they cut the main five songs and just re-did it as a straight B-sides collection; I once ripped all the B-sides minus Pastichio Medley and it fit onto 2 CDS (this is back when I had a discman but no portable mp3 player). Billy's said a few snippets from Pastichio will be present in their full form; I wonder if there'll be a seperate dedicated Pastichio disc.


Also curious about the mixed Machina's boxart. I picture the Machina I logo over the II cover.

Reznor2112
06-24-2012, 03:40 PM
Curious if the Mellon Collie reissue will have the CD or Vinyl tracklisting...

Sutekh
06-24-2012, 04:02 PM
on the subject of pre-gish - Oui Henri is great! As a society we need to ask ourselves why there aren't more psychedelic goth bands

Still haven't listened to Oceania but I didn't think Zeitgeist was that bad... they've always been hit & miss, and from mellon collie onwards he's been making the effort to branch out a bit, so a few misfires are par for the course really. Zeitgeist is 0/10 terrible and Adore is a 90s classic? really don't think so

liquidcalm
06-24-2012, 04:17 PM
I really like Zeitgeist, the only thing that really bugs me is a couple of songs, one being 'United States', and the production that is pretty harsh on the ears.
My main criticism of Adore is its too bloody long.

seasonsinthesky
06-24-2012, 06:05 PM
Curious if the Mellon Collie reissue will have the CD or Vinyl tracklisting...

they will likely recreate both, since they'll be putting it out on vinyl at the same time. i don't see why they'd change the different tracklists.

Mantra
06-25-2012, 02:22 AM
I'm wondering how Aeroplane specifically is going to be handled. ...Wouldn't surprise me if they cut the main five songs and just re-did it as a straight B-sides collection

that would fucking suck. the box case is a major part of what makes tafh so cool.

slave2thewage
06-25-2012, 02:07 PM
Does anyone happen to have that Friends and Enemies of Modern Music tape that was leaked by Billy with a bunch of Machina and assorted demos on it? I'm having a massive problem trying to find it.

Sutekh
06-25-2012, 02:14 PM
is it any of these?
http://archive.org/search.php?query=machina%20II%20pumpkins%20AND%20c ollection%3Aopensource_audio

Mantra
06-25-2012, 02:34 PM
If you mean this (http://www.spfc.org/songs-releases/boot.html?boot_id=165), yeah I have it. I'll upload it tonight when I get home, unless you find it somewhere else.

frankie teardrop
06-25-2012, 02:36 PM
yeah, that's a pretty cool tape. i've always dug the demo version of 'everlasting gaze,' and the live version of 'xyu' from that halloween show is a scorcher.

slave2thewage
06-25-2012, 03:27 PM
Managed to find a site with it, but thanks a lot for the offer.

Reznor2112
06-30-2012, 04:15 PM
With the release of Oceania, I have been on a SP binge. Going through some of the older tracks I havent listened to in a while...I have to say "The Beginning is the End is the Beginning" (from the BATMAN & ROBIN OST- not Watchmen) may be my favorite SP song of all time.

And the first part of the song "The End is the Beginning is the End" is just as good. I noticed they played TBITEITB at Rock in Rio this year. Hopeful that they keep it on the setlist for US tour.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjNmkmMiYqo

Piko
06-30-2012, 08:53 PM
Been listening to Oceania a lot lately. Very catchy.

BlueCalx
06-30-2012, 11:38 PM
HEY GUYS, ANYONE NOTICE THAT "ONE DIAMOND, ONE HEART" IS A DIRECT RIPOFF OF "HANG WITH ME" BY ROBYN????

LISTEN AND LEARN, CORGAN JUST SLOWED IT DOWN:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mUWl-96P5w


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciXDBlIQqwo

THE JOHNNY ROOK
07-01-2012, 01:48 AM
Love Smashing Pumpkins, whenever someone asks me my favorite song, I immediately respond 'Thru The Eyes of Ruby by Smashing Pumpkins", it just rolls off my tongue.

New album is great, but after Pale Horse (favorite song off Oceania) it feels bland or I stop paying attention? I have listened to it about 10 times but everytime it feels that way. I really dig it and leaps and bounds over Zeitgeist.

Mantra
07-01-2012, 01:54 AM
whenever someone asks me my favorite song, I immediately respond 'Thru The Eyes of Ruby by Smashing Pumpkins"
definitely one of the best songs off that album. that middle section where he sings "and with this ring I wed thee true" gets me every time.

By Starlight is better though, imo.

slave2thewage
07-01-2012, 04:05 AM
I forgot how much I love By Starlight.

Apparently, this is the tracklist for the deluxe reissue of Pisces Iscariot. Really tempted to fork out for this.



BONUS DISC
1) By June (Ignoffo Sessions/2012 Mix)
2) My Dahlia (Ignoffo Sessions/2012 Mix)
3) Jesus Loves His Babies (Gish Sessions Rough Mix)
4) Cinnamon Girl (Ignoffo Sessions/2012 Mix)
5) Glynis (2012 Mix)
6) Crawl (Gish Sessions outtake)
7) Cinder Open (Eddy St. demo/2012 Mix)
8) Blissed (Sadlands demo/2012 Mix)
9) Slunk (Live) (2012 – Remaster)
10) Jackie Blue
11) Venus in Furs (Live)
12) Translucent (Sadlands demo/2012 mix)
13) French Movie Theme (Siamese Sessions outtake)
14) Purr Snickety (Gish b-sides session outtake)
15) There It Goes (Demo/2012 Mix)
16) Vanilla (Ignoffo Sessions)
17) Why Am I So Tired (Live in studio demo)
DVD TRACKLISTING
1) Intro by Billy Corgan
2) Pulse Cable Show Introduction by Lou Hinkhouse
3) There It Goes (Pulse Basement Jam – Chicago)
4) She (Pulse Basement Jam – Chicago)
5) She (Pulse Basement Jam – Chicago)
6) Under Your Spell (Pulse Basement Jam – Chicago)
7) My Eternity (Pulse Basement Jam – Chicago)
8) My Eternity (Pulse Basement Jam – Chicago)
9) My Eternity (Pulse Basement Jam – Chicago)
10) My Eternity (Pulse Basement Jam – Chicago)
11) Bleed (Pulse Basement Jam – Chicago)
12) Nothing and Everything (Pulse Basement Jam – Chicago)
13) Jennifer Ever (Pulse Basement Jam – Chicago)
14) Jennifer Ever (Pulse Basement Jam – Chicago)
15) Jennifer Ever (Pulse Basement Jam – Chicago)
16) Jennifer Ever (Pulse Basement Jam – Chicago)
17) Jennifer Ever (Pulse Basement Jam – Chicago)
18) Death of a Mind (Pulse Basement Jam – Chicago)
19) Spiteface (Pulse Basement Jam – Chicago)
20) Blue
21) Offer Up
22) The Joker
23) Slunk
24) Dancing In The Moonlight
25) Snap
26) Hello Kitty Kat
TAPE TRACKLISTING
1) A1: Jennifer Ever
2) A2: East
3) A3: Nothing And Everything
4) B1: Sun (Remix)
5) B2: She (Live)
6) B3: Spiteface

liquidcalm
07-01-2012, 11:46 AM
That certainly looks sexy.. Pisces is a great disc on its own, I'd love to hear it remastered though..

jmtd
07-01-2012, 12:55 PM
HEY GUYS, ANYONE NOTICE THAT "ONE DIAMOND, ONE HEART" IS A DIRECT RIPOFF OF "HANG WITH ME" BY ROBYN????

LISTEN AND LEARN, CORGAN JUST SLOWED IT DOWN:


And Robyn ripped off "Closer"'s drums!

I think that similarity is quite possibly entirely coincidental.

THE JOHNNY ROOK
07-01-2012, 01:04 PM
I will admit that the only Pumpkins album I do not own is Pisces Iscariot, so this remastered will be a purchase. I do have the Lush ep from years back, think I bought it in 5th grade, and my favorite song was By June *swoooooooooooooons*

BlueCalx
07-01-2012, 02:41 PM
And Robyn ripped off "Closer"'s drums!

I think that similarity is quite possibly entirely coincidental.

Allcaps usually = I'm taking the piss. Corgan is well known for 'interpolating' other artists' material, though, and considering that "OD,OH" and "Hang With Me" follow similar arrangements and express similar sentiments, I would bet that some direct inspiration was taken from Robyn's track.

Mantra
07-01-2012, 03:12 PM
I will admit that the only Pumpkins album I do not own is Pisces Iscariot, so this remastered will be a purchase. I do have the Lush ep from years back, think I bought it in 5th grade, and my favorite song was By June *swoooooooooooooons*
You mean the Lull EP.

Man, Pisces Iscariot is their best album. Hands down. Can't wait to grab the reissue on vinyl.

Kodiak33
07-01-2012, 03:29 PM
Pisces Iscariot, Siamese Dream, MCIS...what a remarkable 3-4 years of work.

THE JOHNNY ROOK
07-01-2012, 03:55 PM
You mean the Lull EP.

Man, Pisces Iscariot is their best album. Hands down. Can't wait to grab the reissue on vinyl.

Thanks, Lull I meant lulz. Any idea when I can get my hands on the reissue?

Mantra
07-01-2012, 04:09 PM
July 17th.

Piko
07-01-2012, 07:43 PM
Hells yeah! Didn't think it would be so soon. Guessing Mellon Collie and the others towards the end of the year? They just seem too stretched thin between re-releases. Can't wait though.

october_midnight
07-01-2012, 08:15 PM
Anyone have any of one of these shirts kickin' around?

http://991.com/newGallery/Smashing-Pumpkins-Adore---World-Tou-336987.jpg

seasonsinthesky
07-01-2012, 11:03 PM
just put together one of those mystifying Mellon Collie single-disc tracklists. attack away:
01. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
02. Tonight, Tonight
03. Bodies
04. Zero
05. Galapagos
06. Bullet With Butterfly Wings
07. 1979
08. Thru the Eyes of Ruby
09. Jellybelly
10. Fuck You (An Ode to No One)
11. Muzzle
12. Thirty-Three
13. X.Y.U.
14. Cupid de Locke
15. Porcelina of the Vast Oceans
16. Farewell and Goodnight

imail724
07-01-2012, 11:39 PM
blasphemy.

october_midnight
07-02-2012, 12:00 AM
No 'In The Arms of Sleep'??

Mantra
07-02-2012, 12:01 AM
I cannot in good conscience endorse any Mellon Collie tracklist that excludes "By Starlight." Sorry, but it's a matter of principle.

frankie teardrop
07-02-2012, 12:22 AM
Anyone have any of one of these shirts kickin' around?

http://991.com/newGallery/Smashing-Pumpkins-Adore---World-Tou-336987.jpg

i am a moron. because yes, yes i did. it was my first concert ever, an amazing experience, and just last year i accidentally (grabbed it without looking) painted my new apartment while wearing it, pretty much destroying it. at that point it was worn thin, but i can't believe i didn't think about what shirt i was wearing until it was too late...


just put together one of those mystifying Mellon Collie single-disc tracklists. attack away:
01. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness
02. Tonight, Tonight
03. Bodies
04. Zero
05. Galapagos
06. Bullet With Butterfly Wings
07. 1979
08. Thru the Eyes of Ruby
09. Jellybelly
10. Fuck You (An Ode to No One)
11. Muzzle
12. Thirty-Three
13. X.Y.U.
14. Cupid de Locke
15. Porcelina of the Vast Oceans
16. Farewell and Goodnight

lemme try a crack at this.
1. Where Boys Fear To Tread
2. Bodies
3. To Forgive
4. Zero
5. Here Is No Why
6. Muzzle
7. Jellybelly
8. Tonight, Tonight
9. Bullet With Butterfly Wings
10. Galapogos
11. Porcelina Of The Vast Oceans
12. An Ode To No One
13. Thirty-Three
14. Stumbleine
15. 1979
16. X.Y.U.
17. Thru The Eyes Of Ruby

felt weird to cut 'tales of a scorched earth,' but i couldn't make it work in this context. always loved their doomy metal side. 'love' used to be a favorite too, but as with 'by starlight,' i grew out of that sappier romantic stuff a loooong time ago.

fillow
07-02-2012, 09:12 AM
Songs I would easily throw out of MCIS:
Jellybelly
Galapogos
In the Arms of Sleep
Ruby
Stumbleine
We Only Come Out at Night
Beautiful
Lily
By Starilght

seasonsinthesky
07-02-2012, 01:08 PM
No 'In The Arms of Sleep'??

I cannot in good conscience endorse any Mellon Collie tracklist that excludes "By Starlight." Sorry, but it's a matter of principle.
ah, two cuts i wish i could've fit in there (along with "Here is No Why"). sadly, they both had to go my general philosophy was a) to keep the variety of the record intact without including unnecessary or lesser songs (here's looking at "We Only Come Out at Night"); b) to make it roughly fit in the style of an A-side/B-side vinyl frame (though ignoring the time limitations of vinyl: 'side 1' ends with "Ruby"); and c) to include all the singles, thus making it at least passably indicative of what the label and BC would have chosen at the time. with the approach of "By Starlight" covered in principle by "1979," i stuck true to the latter (also a better song imo). the only song i didn't want included was "Thirty-Three," which i find lacklustre, but its choice as a single and its indication of the album's variety made it a wiser choice. i sought a decent balance between stalwarts, personal favourites, common fan opinion, singles, and BC's sense of pacing and intent.

Mantra
07-02-2012, 02:56 PM
I really think single-disc Mellon Collies are an exercise in futility. It's a double album for a reason. No matter how you approach it, a really great song will always be cut, and the album will then be worse because of it.

frankie teardrop
07-02-2012, 03:36 PM
but there ARE a lot of bloated, silly, sappy songs on there, especially towards the end of the second disc. perhaps better off trashing those, re-instating many of the better EP b-sides (set the ray to jerry, mouth of babes, aeroplane flies high, marquis in spades, medellia of the grey skies, rotten apples, ugly, cherry, etc.)

Piko
07-02-2012, 03:38 PM
I wouldn't cut anything. Sometimes, though, ill listen to one album over the other. Sometimes both. I consider them two separate albums (although they're not). I have them separate on my iPod.

And I love By Starlight and Lily. Steven Wilson's Grace For Drowning is a good example of this. It's a double album, but you don't really need to listen them back to back.

Mantra
07-02-2012, 05:33 PM
but there ARE a lot of bloated, silly, sappy songs on there, especially towards the end of the second disc.
Nah, your version is way too metal-centric. The whole point of the album is to have of broad range of styles with lots of extreme contrasts. Like one of my favorite moments is when X.Y.U. comes to an end and you hear that funny bouncing sound of We Only Come Out At Night. And how can you even consider a version of the album that doesn't have the opening title track? It's such an iconic song.

And seriously, By Starlight is a fucking great song. I think there used to be a thread on Netphoria with like 40 pages of people arguing over whether it was THE best song Billy ever wrote, or just in the top five.

slave2thewage
07-02-2012, 08:10 PM
I just take the second disc as gospel, to be honest.

Amaro
07-02-2012, 08:22 PM
Songs I would easily throw out of MCIS:
Jellybelly
Galapogos
In the Arms of Sleep
Ruby
Stumbleine
We Only Come Out at Night
Beautiful
Lily
By Starilght

I have more than a problem with you right now.

Piko
07-02-2012, 08:35 PM
Pretty much named most of my favorites... Jellybelly? Really? A lot of people would probably beg to differ with that list.

frankie teardrop
07-02-2012, 11:18 PM
metal-centric? i feel like i'm the only one here allowing for 'stumbeline'- not to mention the medellia, cherry, rotten apples in my follow up post. :P

i can abide 'by starlight,' but i never cared for 'we only come out at night' or 'lily' though i do have a soft spot for 'beautiful,' especially the ending.

Mantra
07-03-2012, 01:26 AM
I'm just saying, fuck with it too much and pretty soon it's a totally different album with a totally different identity. It's like when people make single-disc versions of the White Album and take off Revolution #9. It just isn't the White Album without that song. And it just isn't Mellon Collie without Lily, etc.


I just take the second disc as gospel, to be honest.
Preach it!

Amaro
07-03-2012, 02:47 AM
I completely understand what you're saying, Mantra... There'll never be another original release listing. Even for the songs that may not be as impactful, their presence would still be missed if removed. But this is just for a bit of opinion, whether it's from scratch or what one is seeing as a would-be possibility had it been a single disc along the way. It's interesting to imagine, like it is to imagine the point where the minds involved in production thought to press on for a double.

fillow
07-03-2012, 03:13 AM
I have more than a problem with you right now.

Pretty much named most of my favorites... Jellybelly? Really? A lot of people would probably beg to differ with that list.
What if I go on to say that i fucking LOVE both Machina and Zeitgeist? And I even like most of TbK songs.
I'm ready to be crucified right on the spot.

Anyway, I'm not saying these MCIS songs suck, just naming the ones I would delete if I were to make 1-disc version

slave2thewage
07-03-2012, 06:03 AM
Machina is my favourite Pumpkins album. Seriously.

COME AT ME.

Piko
07-03-2012, 08:26 AM
I love Machina. Love Mellon Collie as is, and would change absolutely nothing. And I loathe Zeitgeist as a whole. I see the point he tried to make with it, but production was a mess and the songs could've been far better.

Now, if I were to change anything. I'd start with Machina. Try, Try, Try is a good song, but in a bad spot. Probably would've fit much better after Glass and the Ghost Children. The entire first half was the heavier stuff. Between songs like Sacred and Profane and Heavy Metal Machine, having that song there doesn't feel right. But I could see the song being grouped right next to Wound, easily.

frankie teardrop
07-03-2012, 10:11 AM
i'm curious to see how they integrate both machina I and II into a coherent album. i think that was the plan? i've always loved (most of) the second machina, but the first recently grew on me as a whole. i used to dislike a lot of the second half, but then wised up to the likes of 'age of innocence' and 'wound.' 'this time' also gives me chills.

slave2thewage
07-03-2012, 10:17 AM
Hoping that Let Me Give The World To You gets released as a single.

Piko
07-03-2012, 10:18 AM
I was put off by the fact that the majority or the album were love songs. I was younger and wanted the.angry stuff. You get older and it eventually clicks. It would be awesome to see what the double album should've been. And curious to hear how different they're going to sound since I can only imagine Billy still wants to re-mix them. Will the tracklistings be different? So many questions. And so long of a wait. Can't wait.

Amaro
07-03-2012, 03:20 PM
What if I go on to say that i fucking LOVE both Machina and Zeitgeist? And I even like most of TbK songs.
I'm ready to be crucified right on the spot.

Anyway, I'm not saying these MCIS songs suck, just naming the ones I would delete if I were to make 1-disc version

It's my way of calling you crazy. I won't argue past that.

//

Stumbeline is so good...

Shadaloo
07-03-2012, 08:40 PM
Cutting MCIS down to half an album? Fuck, that's like a choice between amputating both legs or arms.

1. MCATIS
2. Tonight, Tonight
3. Zero
4. BWBW
5. To Forgive
6. Love
7. Galapagos
8. Where Boys Fear to Tread
9. Bodies
10. 1979
11. Thru The Eyes of Ruby
12. Stumbleine
13. X.Y.U
14. We Only Come Out At Night

And if I had my way I'd toss Tonite Reprise at the end. Just 'cuz.

Asuuming most things from Machina I + II make it onto the remixed resequenced album, that'd be a fun game to play. I'd have to think on that, especially seeing as how he's said stuff about a few songs in the narrative composing a snippet of a Glass concert, Lucky 13 apparently being one of them, so the EPs do count apparently.

seasonsinthesky
07-03-2012, 09:42 PM
Assuming most things from Machina I + II make it onto the remixed resequenced album, that'd be a fun game to play. I'd have to think on that, especially seeing as how he's said stuff about a few songs in the narrative composing a snippet of a Glass concert, Lucky 13 apparently being one of them, so the EPs do count apparently.

well, not all of the EPs just the songs that are real b-sides ("Lucky 13," "Vanity," "Speed Kills," and "Slow Dawn" not sure if "Saturnine" would count, since it's an Adore song).

if we had streamlined, consistent production/mix, here's how i would pare Machina down (NOT how i'd combine the two):
01. Le Deux Machina
02. Glass
03. Cash Car Star
04. Stand Inside Your Love
05. Raindrops + Sunshowers
06. The Everlasting Gaze
07. Dross
08. I of the Mourning
09. In My Body
10. This Time
11. Blue Skies Bring Tears
12. Speed Kills (slow)
13. Glass and the Ghost Children
14. Age of Innocence

this was REALLY difficult to put together maybe even more than my butchering of MCIS :eek:
my first real attachment to the band was the more congealed, Machina II-esque mix of Machina I, so a lot of this material is tops in my SP favourites. it was really difficult to cut, say, "The Sacred and Profane," "Innosense," "Lucky 13," "Slow Dawn," etc.

Piko
07-04-2012, 08:44 AM
Basing around the loose concept, I'd prolly say half are the more melancholy themed, and the other half, the more optimistic (Glass).

Raindrops and Sunshowers
The Sacred and Profane
Heavy Metal Machine
Dross
This Time
The Crying Tree of Mercury
Blue Skies Bring Tears
Speed Kills
I, Of The Mourning
In My Body
Glass and the Ghost Children
Try, Try, Try
Wound
With Every Light
Age of Innocence

Glass Theme
Cash Car Star
Real Love
Stand Inside Your Love
The Imploding Voice
The Everlasting Gaze
White Spider
Blue Skies Bring Tears (heavy)
Le Deux Machina
Go
Innocence
Let Me Give The World To You
If There Is a God
Home
Here's to the Atom Bomb

Space Suicide
07-04-2012, 09:48 AM
By the buzz of this thread and various outlets, I need to really check out Oceania then. The Teargarden tracks after Song For A Son have been crap to me mostly so to hear that Oceania is a good, consistent and excellent SP album makes me want to check it out.

I actually liked a majority of Zeitgeist, wasn't a bad album at all. Better than anything he's done from then till Oceania now.

Sutekh
07-04-2012, 11:37 AM
Yeah mellon collie should have been a one disc with an EP of offcuts

The cringeworthy mingle with the amazing on that album - 2nd disc has 3 of the best songs ever - in a row - and then he wrecks it with that pathetic "and ill doooooo anything" song. Toooo teenagery and lame, kills the momentum (Thirty Three seems a pretty profound song about growing up and moving on, identity change etc. Seemed a shame to follow it with such adolescent sentiment). Shame because musically it's pretty exquisite (for rock music). And then some great songs immediately after it - what was he thinking?

SP definitely divides into two eras - and the second era doesn't start with Zeitgeist or Machina, it starts somewhere during Mellon Collie - about half of Mellon Collie is as good as Siamese Dream (straight up guitar oriented alt rock), and the rest is either a bit naff or more similar to his subsequent stuff

PS if Thirty-Three was on Rotten Apples, it would have been perfect! He's a madman

PhoenixML
07-04-2012, 09:32 PM
As a non-fan, I wish I would like Mellon Collie as much as the fans, but I can only enjoy the singles.

Adore is almost flawless, except I don't like the Nightmare song. Definitely my favorite.

I like Machina, almost every song. It's just that the pacing is kinda odd! It kinda have mood swings all over the place (I don't know if it make sense).

I just recently tried the solo album for the first time. It's.. ok! I like the first half! And then it's somewhat boring.

I couldn't get hook to Zeitgeist, I did enjoy Neverlost. And I still haven't been able to complete Oceania because of lost of interest.

I'm still trying.

Piko
07-04-2012, 11:56 PM
I'd say four eras. I'd say Gish and Siamese Dream are in one. Mellon Collie to Machina (the heavy, darker, more artsy stuff). Zeitgeist to Teargarden. And Oceania onward, with the new band dynamic.

slave2thewage
07-05-2012, 07:16 AM
I'm hoping Corgan abandons the Teargarden nonsense after how well he's done with Oceania.

Reznor2112
07-05-2012, 08:09 AM
Due to my ignorance I have never given Adore a chance. But since the release of Oceania I have gone back and been listening to all the older stuff. I finally sat down and listened to Adore.

Mellon Collie and Machina used to tie as my favorite SP album. I say now, Adore if my favorite SP album ever.

the 8 song stretch from Ava Adore to Pug is just fucking fantabulous.

Im stoked for the MC re-issue but more for Adore now. I only with that TEITBITE & TBITEITB were on Adore. They fit perfectly in that record as they were recorded around the same time and/or the same sessions.

From one fan to another...if you have been the moronic hermit I have been and not given Adore a shot, do so.

Endlessly
07-05-2012, 08:44 AM
I say now, Adore if my favorite SP album ever.

the 8 song stretch from Ava Adore to Pug is just fucking fantabulous.

Check out some of the live performances from that era, too-- they're great, and there's bonus Mike Garson. I actually hated Tear until I watched this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ds-fPZUdb0

frankie teardrop
07-05-2012, 09:54 AM
adore is my favorite. by the time it came out, i was kind of oversaturated with the pumpkins, having been a die hard, uber collector fan in middle school (!) with the release of siamese dream. i avoided adore on release day, got it a few weeks later, and fell for it, hard. still find it to be the most mature and listened to of all their records. as mentioned above, the charity tour (night 1 at radio city) was also the first show i ever went to- 8 rows from the stage. mostly adore material. that lineup of the band SLAYED.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn7CZmkD970

sa_nick
07-05-2012, 10:28 AM
I finally got my hands on one of the Siamese Dream deluxe sets after not being able to justify spending spare money on non-photography related gear for the last year. I sat down and read the little accompanying book with Billys notes about the making of the album and whatnot. I'm not the biggest SP fans so there was some new stuff mentioned in the book that I'd never heard of. All the stories about the creation of the album made the listening of it kinda new and awesome. It's never been in my top few SP albums, but I really, really got into it last night and somehow found a new appreciation for it. It's good stuff.

jmtd
07-05-2012, 01:25 PM
I bought adore recently because I like eye but it hasn't caught for me yet.

On that note one of my current projects is remixing eye to incorporate chamberlin drums (probably from moggs) because I hate the programmed ones (the samples that is, not the rhythm particularly. But if I can add some fills from live performances, great)- first phase was trying to minimise/remove existing ones but that hasn't really worked out so it will probably have to be overdub.

LaneSax
07-05-2012, 10:08 PM
like most people, I didn't enjoy Adore when I first got it in 98, probably still in awe of MCIS but it grew on me by the 6th year of owning it. 2004 was such a slow year for music that it made me re-visit Adore. I don't nickname it A-bore anymore.

As for Oceania, it's a good album. Maybe needs some angst and the middle part of the album is pretty boring.

Amaro
07-06-2012, 09:54 PM
Adore is indeed fantastic...

Question: Did D'arcy sometimes just sing out notes in her backup live, or completely different lines? It's just a lot of the time a camera goes to her I notice her lips not moving with the words Billy's singing. I always found that odd, but cool...

imail724
07-06-2012, 10:13 PM
So after how ever many weeks, Oceania is still sounding great to me after more than a few spins. I can't stop listening to Inkless.

Piko
07-06-2012, 10:27 PM
Pinwheels is a song that I keep going back to. I'm loving it as a whole though.

october_midnight
07-06-2012, 10:40 PM
Adore is hands down my favorite SP album ever. And it's odd that you bring that up, because I think (maybe cuz she was high out of her mind or something) that she never really sang along either. One thing that always stood out to me was the video for Ava Adore. At about 2:20 or so when Billy sings 'we must never be apart' D'arcy is blatantly not saying anything coherent.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uWwvQKGjLI

slave2thewage
07-07-2012, 08:31 AM
Adore would've been my favourite IF they'd replaced some of the latter tracks with the great songs that didn't make it in the end (Blissed and Gone, Waiting, Let Me Give The World, Once In A While, Czarina).

Piko
07-07-2012, 02:48 PM
Let Me Give The World To You fit perfectly with Machina II, so I'd leave it as is. I'd have added Eye and Blissed and Gone.

imail724
07-08-2012, 02:39 AM
Once in a while is on adore

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

slave2thewage
07-08-2012, 10:03 AM
Once Upon A Time = Adore track
Once In A While = Ava Adore b-side/Adore Japanese bonus track.

I think I actually would've switched them.

Reznor2112
07-08-2012, 11:02 AM
Adore would be a 10/10 if you drop Annie Dog, Tale of... and Once Upon a Time then switched em with:

Eye
The End is the Beginning is the End
The Beginning is the end is the Beginning

imail724
07-08-2012, 11:24 AM
Once Upon A Time = Adore track
Once In A While = Ava Adore b-side/Adore Japanese bonus track.

I think I actually would've switched them. would Ya look at that. After all this time I never realized I have the Japanese edition which includes one in a while. Had no idea that wasn't included on the standard version, silly it wouldn't be because it's one of my favorite tracks on the album.



Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Piko
07-08-2012, 11:37 AM
Adore would be a 10/10 if you drop Annie Dog, Tale of... and Once Upon a Time then switched em with:

Eye
The End is the Beginning is the End
The Beginning is the end is the Beginning

Ill agree with you on Annie Dog. Weakest track on the album IMO. Not a bad song though. Just nothing amazing. Pistol Pete is an awesome song as is Once Upon a Time. Very catchy.

october_midnight
07-08-2012, 12:25 PM
Yeah Annie Dog is definitely among the weakest; I too love Pistol Pete...but on the lower end haha...it's sort of weak IMO as well. I wonder what's going to be included in the upcoming Adore reissue (next year apparently with the 15 yr. anniversary).

Mantra
07-08-2012, 12:45 PM
Adore is one of the best depressing albums ever, especially that final run from Shame to Blank Page. I love how relentlessly bleak it is. I'm glad they didn't end with some crappy uplifting track.

Piko
07-08-2012, 01:10 PM
17 seems sorta "unlifting". Very bleak album though. I wouldn't change a single thing about it. It was no secret that Billy had issues at the time (mother dying, divorce, band falling apart". It made sense. I fell in love with it instantly. With some people, it takes years to actually understand what it is. By the time I had first heard it, my taste in music was just starting to change. Machina was the album that took me awhile to get into. Everything else just felt more natural. Probably why I like Oceania. Musically, it's where it should be - honest, and to the point.

frankie teardrop
07-10-2012, 01:40 PM
RIP dennis flemion, aka dennis frog, aka keyboardist for the pumpkins after jonathan/jimmy's overdose, aka backing vox on adore and instruments on 'medellia of the grey skies' aka part of the amazingly underrated and hilariously genius band, the frogs:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5GGNdc_xSo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP0Z2opWFzQ

LaneSax
07-10-2012, 10:13 PM
sad to hear, RIP Dennis. The Frogs had some special moments

slave2thewage
07-13-2012, 08:26 PM
I forgot how AMAZING For Martha is. Shame on me. The interlude before the guitar solo is just breathtakingly beautiful.

EDIT: Oh yeah, this is my dream Adore tracklisting:

To Sheila
Ava Adore
Perfect
Let Me Give The World to You
Daphne Descends
Once In A While
Tear
Waiting
Crestfallen
Do You Close Your Eyes?
Czarina
Appels + Oranjes
Winterlong
Pug
Shame
For Martha
Behold! The Night Mare
For Martha
Soot and Stars
Blissed and Gone

seasonsinthesky
07-15-2012, 12:07 AM
^ no Dusty & Pistol Pete or Saturnine or Cash Car Star?!

fillow
07-15-2012, 03:41 AM
Cash Car Star is Machina-era song, what does it have to do with dream Adore tracklist?

frankie teardrop
07-15-2012, 08:45 AM
everything, seeing as it was played live on the adore tour.
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDZxIEf-xFk)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDZxIEf-xFk


ps- have a flac copy of the pisces bonus disc, looking for the first disc & the demo tape. if anyone can point me in the right direction, hit me with a PM.

Mantra
07-15-2012, 12:23 PM
Completely forgot about the PI reissue somehow.

slave2thewage
07-15-2012, 07:19 PM
Heavy stuff on Adore? Bitches be tripping.

Kodiak33
07-15-2012, 07:30 PM
Is that Cash Car Star when they opened up for KISS on Halloween? I had that taped somewhere and watched it quite a bit.

seasonsinthesky
07-15-2012, 07:54 PM
also: "Because You Are." there sure was a lot of material from Adore on Judas ...

slave2thewage
07-17-2012, 12:05 PM
Has the tape that comes with the PI reissue surfaced online yet?

frankie teardrop
07-17-2012, 12:22 PM
yep, i have a copy of it. it sounds pretty great- though there are some errors on the intros/outros of the song. for example 'sun' has the intro to 'she' at the end, but the track fades in and the intro begins again on the next track. a lot of stupid errors on pisces this time around- a harsh digital skip in the first three seconds of 'pissant'- the same intro/outro issue on 'purr snickety' and bizarrely- a completely different vocal take/mix of 'plume' which while good, sort of fucks with continuity a bit...

pm me tonight and remind me to zip it up if you haven't found it by then. at work for the day.

seasonsinthesky
07-17-2012, 10:01 PM
yep, content delivery to Topspin was botched pretty badly — besides the mistracking and glitching and disc 2 being significantly louder than disc 1, all the people who paid $20 for 24bit/96kHz can only have 24bit/44.1kHz instead (confirmed by B0lly). what a mess.

i'm still buying the gigantic MCIS box or whatever (everything, in fact), but i hope they smooth this all out before that is due.

Shadaloo
07-19-2012, 06:37 AM
Oh man, lucked out.

Bought the thing, then came home and learned about all the terrible issues on it. Hadn't opened it, debated on straight up returning it, then found out Amazon.ca's selling it for 14.99. Return and switch - fifteen bucks is worth the DVD alone to me.

Piko
07-19-2012, 07:50 AM
Went the digital route. Not noticing anything at all (even the touch ups on some of the songs). Pressing error on the CD's?

frankie teardrop
07-19-2012, 10:25 AM
listen closely to the intro of pissant, for the most obvious one. maybe they fixed it by now, but i'm reading a lot of the netphoria boards and it doesn't seem like there's a fix just yet. it's sutble in some, more noticeable in others, mostly heard in headphones and not on cranked up stereos.

eversonpoe
07-19-2012, 10:59 AM
Oh man, lucked out.

Bought the thing, then came home and learned about all the terrible issues on it. Hadn't opened it, debated on straight up returning it, then found out Amazon.ca's selling it for 14.99. Return and switch - fifteen bucks is worth the DVD alone to me.

even with the $10 shipping to the US, i'm still saving almost $20 compared to what i'd be paying from regular amazon ($42). thanks for the heads up!

eversonpoe
07-25-2012, 02:27 PM
just got my Pisces Iscariot box set and i'm quite pleased. i feel like i'm 10 years old again, listening to the only CD i own over and over on my shitty boom box.

seasonsinthesky
07-25-2012, 04:40 PM
am i the only one who really likes "Why am I so Tired?" all fifteen minutes?

eversonpoe
07-25-2012, 05:20 PM
am i the only one who really likes "Why am I so Tired?" all fifteen minutes?

i was so sad when it ended abruptly.

LaneSax
07-25-2012, 10:17 PM
despite the many complains, I am happy with the Pisces reissue.
The DVD is great too (I miss seeing a hot D'arcy) and personally liked disc 2 very much.

seasonsinthesky
07-26-2012, 05:44 PM
i was so sad when it ended abruptly.

yesssssss! why did the tape have to run out :(

Shadaloo
07-26-2012, 06:24 PM
even with the $10 shipping to the US, i'm still saving almost $20 compared to what i'd be paying from regular amazon ($42). thanks for the heads up!

No problem, glad to help!

This thing would have been nothing short of stellar if not for all the flaws that just add up. I seriously wonder what the hell happened with Plume (apparently, the download version was replaced with an original which had a simple volume boost applied to it - what the hell?)

Supposedly a 'fix' of some sort is in the works according to an admin over at the official board. Fingers crossed for some sort of replacement program.


I'm terrified as hell for the MCIS remaster, as that just so happens to rank up there with TDS and TF as my trinity of three favoritest albums evar.