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View Full Version : Hesitation Marks gets a 7.0 on Pitchfork



butter_hole
09-03-2013, 12:02 AM
http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/18443-nine-inch-nails-hesitation-marks/

Figured it would just clog up whatever thread it turned up in, so here's its own special place where you can make fun of Pitchfork and pretend like you don't read it.

thevoid99
09-03-2013, 12:03 AM
Well, at least it's a good score.

BenAkenobi
09-03-2013, 12:08 AM
Who is Pitchfork?

OSLIN
09-03-2013, 12:10 AM
This album made me Pitchtent.

pigpen
09-03-2013, 12:14 AM
What a weird review. Basically bags on the album the entire time, and then gives it a 7??

KarenLeslie
09-03-2013, 12:16 AM
What a weird review. Basically bags on the album the entire time, and then gives it a 7??

I know. It's like the reviewer can't bring himself to admit that he actually liked it.

exilajei
09-03-2013, 12:18 AM
Guys, they're saying The Slip was a better album! Hahahahaha!

Trunkjob
09-03-2013, 12:25 AM
the album’s second half in particular is bogged down by dead-weight plodders (“Various Methods of Escape”, “I Would For You”, “In Two”) whose predictably amped-up choruses can’t enliven their sputtering tempos and flagging energy.

In an ironic twist, three of the most fan favorite songs on the album get trashed by Pitchfork.

Collin
09-03-2013, 12:28 AM
Weird review. He praises The Slip a bunch and then name drops Various Methods of Escape, I Would For You and In Two as some of the worst songs... Still, it's not like a 7 is a "bad" score but whatevs.

binaryhermit
09-03-2013, 12:35 AM
Can I facepalm this abortion of a review? The text and score do not match at all.

playwithfire
09-03-2013, 12:41 AM
And the album is ultimately lacking in the concision and sequential logic that made The Slip such an invigorating late-career triumph.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/c23dba077dfd3324ed29e645d691516a/tumblr_mp6cf84zPb1sr1j9fo1_500.gif


the album’s second half in particular is bogged down by dead-weight plodders (“Various Methods of Escape”, “I Would For You”, “In Two”) whose predictably amped-up choruses can’t enliven their sputtering tempos and flagging energy.

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/7900000/1x09-Storming-the-Castle-Animated-gif-Suspicious-Lucille-arrested-development-7915376-300-170.gif

xolotl
09-03-2013, 12:46 AM
I actually thought the review sounded rather positive about the album, overall (apart from that mystifying "plodders" statement, of course). I didn't really feel like it was bagging on the album overmuch - bringing up some stuff he didn't like about it, sure, but it came across as being largely positive to me. The number score seemed to match the content.

gorast
09-03-2013, 12:53 AM
I dunno, it kind of seemed like there was an imbalance between the positivity and the neutrality/negativity, weighing too much on the latter considering the score. It's not an awful review, and it's not particularly mind-blowing - so, basically, typical music journalism.

His list of "plodders" is utter bullshit, though. It's kind of like he doesn't actually like what makes NIN sound the way it does all that much.

Mr.Benjamin
09-03-2013, 12:53 AM
Will my second reading of the review increase my liking for it just like I did for the CD? I hope so!

Radiovoyr
09-03-2013, 01:23 AM
So the reviewer compared Copy of A to Full of Fire by the Knife... did he mean to type Came back haunted or has he never heard either song?

Clearly there is some acid influence on this album, and the Olof does some acid house on the acid that bleeds into the Knife at times, but this seems like a really, really shit comparison to make - and it made it really hard for me to take this reviewer seriously at all.

Also I enjoy how indian instruments automatically suggest the beatles to this guy rather than "they sound fucking cool, so like - use them and stuff."

nineismine
09-03-2013, 01:40 AM
fuck pitchfork. That is all I have to say.

Fist Fuck
09-03-2013, 01:46 AM
Felt a little sorry for Bitchfork while reading the review, I can imagine how hard it must be reviewing an excellent new NIN album for them.

So basically this review is useless for anyone. The fans will buy it anyway, indecisive people will still be indecisive after reading a 7.0 review. Strangely, a lot of albums rank between 6.0 - 8.0, which is basically Pitchfork saying "We have no idea what we're doing, just take a rating that's somewhere between shitty and good.

Emil Dorbell
09-03-2013, 01:57 AM
I think on A LOT of album reviews, on any site, regarding any album, it really shines through that the reviewer never gave the album a proper chance. This album needs to be listened to several times for it to set in. High album scores are related to hit singles in that way: Music that instantly sticks will get recognized. The first time you hear something like Yeezus you're like "holy shit", this is new and awesome: Hence, high score!

I'm sure, especially considering how he felt about the last few songs, that the score would've been higher if the reviewer had taken some time with the album. At least for me, the last trio of songs didn't stick for me until maybe four listens, and they're now by far my favorite part of the album. Either way... it's just a review, it doesn't matter. But I feel bad for Trent because he's probably going to read it and maybe even get his feelings hurt.

Pulsewidthmod
09-03-2013, 02:20 AM
Pitchfork is not going to ever admit or promote a NIN as being 'good'. NIN is anti-establishment; plain and simple.

On another note, (I've said this elsewhere too,) HM makes me think of Year Zero in a lot of ways; when it was announced early in the Summer I posted that it could quite possible year zero 2.

The album is amazing; Pitchfork is the establishment so fuck them. They also give 8+ to albums that don't break any boundaries with lyrical content that doesn't fuel thoughts for an intellectual.

Since when did us/we as NIN fans care about the critics? ... I know, I know ... it's about justice and being fair, but fair they are not. I'm quite surprised they gave the album a 7 ... ha! but still, fuck them.

Ichiro
09-03-2013, 02:33 AM
After skimming through it, it's definitely not a poor review-the writer is articulate, at least. I can kind of see why someone would frame their outlook on the album like this. It's a coherent (and maybe convenient) way of looking at HM-one that makes the album also very easy to write off. After a couple of listens (which is, judging by the sound of it, probably as far as the reviewer got), it's not entirely unfathomable to me why he would feel it limps its way to WISH. In Two does sound a little out of place, personally (though that will probably change).

Pulsewidthmod
09-03-2013, 02:42 AM
After skimming through it, it's definitely not a poor review-the writer is articulate, at least. I can kind of see why someone would frame their outlook on the album like this. It's a coherent (and maybe convenient) way of looking at HM-one that makes the album also very easy to write off. After a couple of listens (which is, judging by the sound of it, probably as far as the reviewer got), it's not entirely unfathomable to me why he would feel it limps its way to WISH. In Two does sound a little out of place, personally (though that will probably change).

In Two is one of my favorite tracks.

JessicaSarahS
09-03-2013, 02:48 AM
In Two is one of my favorite tracks.

Mine too. Best track on there.

butter_hole
09-03-2013, 02:48 AM
Pitchfork is not going to ever admit or promote a NIN as being 'good'. NIN is anti-establishment; plain and simple.
Bahahaha. Yeah right man.

Khrz
09-03-2013, 03:20 AM
Bahahaha. Yeah right man.

As anti-establishment and rebellious as a Che Guevara T-shirt.

howdidislipinto
09-03-2013, 03:28 AM
I knew the Pitchfork review would be average, but wow, to write off the second half of the album... that's where all the GOLD is! Didn't see that coming at all. Cute how heavily he praises The Slip, which got such a negligible difference in score to HM that it literally proves how little the number scale matters. If they had any balls, they'd drop the scoring all together and just make people read the reviews and come to their own conclusion. In praise of Pitchfork, at least they never caved and put up a comments section, the bane of every other news/reviews blog.

I look forward to the inevitable mentions of "the underappreciated Hesitation Marks" and the future shitty NIN album reviews referencing how great HM was in the future.

BRoswell
09-03-2013, 03:29 AM
I think I'm missing something. I can't seem to figure out why I should care about this review. Hmmm...

ninsega
09-03-2013, 03:33 AM
Think of Pitchfork as The Onion of album reviews.

toomanyrifts
09-03-2013, 03:42 AM
7.0

Someone smokey de crack.

r_z
09-03-2013, 04:08 AM
I think the butthurtness of some NIN fans for when P4k would dare to not praise the album was very forseeable. And that's all he's doing here. He's not bashing the album.

Also, fwiw, I find reasonable and constructive criticism to be more refreshing for my own thought process than "omg this is so good" postings. Therefore the review is welcomed.

curly21029
09-03-2013, 04:44 AM
Guys, they're saying The Slip was a better album! Hahahahaha!

I can't say that I disagree with their assessment.

howdidislipinto
09-03-2013, 05:28 AM
I think the butthurtness of some NIN fans for when P4k would dare to not praise the album was very forseeable. And that's all he's doing here. He's not bashing the album.

Also, fwiw, I find reasonable and constructive criticism to be more refreshing for my own thought process than "omg this is so good" postings. Therefore the review is welcomed.

I don't think anyone in the thread is being too butthurt. It's certainly no CoS/Guardian review.

That said, it's not too well written or constructive either. Notice how effortlessly he took the "I'm still here" out of context of the lyric "hold me near while I'm still here" just to suit his shitty, final paragraph premise of Trent gasping for relevancy?

Vee_One
09-03-2013, 05:29 AM
Hardly surprising.
I still can't get past The Fragile review

accelestar
09-03-2013, 05:34 AM
Hmm. Not high enough to proclaim "Finally pitchfork is on my side!" and not low enough to write them off as snobby trolls.


Well played, Pitchfork.

Well played.

utterben
09-03-2013, 06:04 AM
HM makes me think of Year Zero in a lot of ways...

Absolutely. Vessel could have been on HM, I think.

HM is Year Zero on steroids but presented, at times, on a pillow.

antpatty
09-03-2013, 06:04 AM
people value pitchfork reviews way too much the fact that it has its own thread says it all

carpenoctem
09-03-2013, 06:16 AM
I must read too much music journalism, because the second I found out the new album was called Hesitation Marks, I was like, "Oh shit, it's open season on Trent's ass." I like to imagine the writer smirking at the water cooler as their friend comes up and says, "Dude, that burn in your new Nine Inch Nails review was on point, man. The way you linked Trent's artistic hesitation to the album title? Fearless."

No, but really, the review isn't terrible, it's just so backwards in its interpretation. Like calling The Slip an invigorating late-career move, or implying that Trent is thirsty and wants to be back in the center of things, when really he's always been comfortable on the fringes, making whatever music happens to reflect his current state of mind.

pukkelpop
09-03-2013, 06:56 AM
HM gets 4.0 (out of 10) in the biggest cultural magazine of Belgium, Humo. The journalist says Trent is still good enough to invite for a bbq, and uses the lyrics of disappointed. Tsk.

Ash512
09-03-2013, 07:01 AM
You wouldn't want to get a someone with a fan bias to write a review... But would it kill Pitchfork to hire someone that doesn't walk in with a negative prejudice though? Can't argue with their reviews of With Teeth, The Slip and Ghosts... But this one deserves a much better treatment.

playwithfire
09-03-2013, 07:02 AM
Hardly surprising.
I still can't get past The Fragile review

RIGHT?

Can we just all take a moment to remember how amazingly bad The Fragile review (http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/5799-the-fragile/) was?

By the way, I don't care if someone is bagging on the album. It just seems like this guy forgot how music being good or bad works.

thefragile_jake
09-03-2013, 07:08 AM
A 7 is fine from them, I wasn't thinking they were going to be too keen on it. One of my favorite records by Animal Collective got a 7.4 from them last year. I was thinking they were going to give it a worse score for some reason.

The album is a 10 in my book and while I tend to agree with most of Pitchfork's reviews, I don't this time.

Vee_One
09-03-2013, 08:22 AM
RIGHT?

Can we just all take a moment to remember how amazingly bad The Fragile review (http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/5799-the-fragile/) was?

By the way, I don't care if someone is bagging on the album. It just seems like this guy forgot how music being good or bad works.

I just re-read it
Yep, still salty about it
Damn Hipsters

OSLIN
09-03-2013, 08:31 AM
"while the album’s second half in particular is bogged down by dead-weight plodders"

The second part of this album is some of the best music I've heard in the past decade. This guy can't get his head out of his or Kanye West's ass.

Lastentrance
09-03-2013, 09:26 AM
Really well written review in my eyes. Don't quite agree with the plodding end of the album, but each to their own, and they presented their opinions well. I'd give the review a 7.0/10 too.

KarenLeslie
09-03-2013, 09:29 AM
...the completely incongruous “Everything” overcompensates for Hesitation Marks’ ominous mood with a wincingly bright pop-punk chug-- and unflatteringly strained vocal from Reznor-- that sounds like a second-stage Warped Tour act trying to cover “Just Like Heaven”.

Ouch.

Say what you want, but Bitchdorks know how to make their point sting like a pin-prick.

To be fair to Pitchfork, I think they have a point there. There are some good points in the review, but IMO it's damaged by the writer trying too hard to make the whole thing match the narrative he probably came up with before he even heard HM.

Actually, I think that's a big issue with music reviews in general; they try to come up with some kind of narrative to explain the whole album, rather than just break it down track-by-track, but then they get so into building the narrative, it ceases to really be about the record anymore.

Amaro
09-03-2013, 09:36 AM
I agree with the 7. That said, I don't give shits about reviews ultimately, unless they're written by somebody not being paid to.

richardp
09-03-2013, 09:38 AM
They attack the album for trying something new and not being a retread of the 90s, but had it been a full retread, they would have attacked it for not being something new. I guarantee it. There was never even a chance that Pitchfork would have given this praise. It won't even remotely make any of their top lists at the end of the year.

Bokononist
09-03-2013, 10:16 AM
Not a bad review at all and not too separated from the score, which is still pretty generous for a twenty-five year old "band" with multiple "comeback" records.

Shadaloo
09-03-2013, 10:46 AM
Ryan Dombal: Trent Reznor, we mock your value system. You also appear foolish to the eyes of others.

Trent: Well howdy, Pitchfork representative! [partition slides up] Ooh, thanks for dropping by!

Rob Mitchum: Hmm. He's not responding. [into microphone] Proceed to level 2 antagonism.

[slides down partition]

Tom Breihan: Past instances in which we professed to like you were fraudulent.

Trent: Oh, well, I'll just have to try harder. Heh heh. [partition slides up] Thanks for dropping by!

Ryan Kearney: Ah, he's still repressing. [into microphone] Maximum hostility factor.

[slide down partition]

Brent DiCrescenzo: I engaged in intercourse with your spouse or significant other. Now that's psychiatry! Eh? Eh?

Jinsai
09-03-2013, 10:52 AM
I haven't read the review, and I probably won't. I generally avoid them, and David Cross spells out why pretty succinctly here (http://pitchfork.com/features/guest-lists/6044-david-cross-albums-to-listen-to-while-reading-overwrought-pitchfork-reviews/)

At the same time, a 7 out of 10 is more or less how I feel about it

screwdriver
09-03-2013, 10:53 AM
its clear I don't have the same opinions on things as the reviewer did and that's cool. as far as reviews go, it was pretty fairly written.

they gave ...like clockwork a 7.3, and that is a near perfect 9.5 to me
they gave the random access memories an 8.8, and that album just bores me to death
I love Yeezus, but a 9.5? that album has already not aged well and its been just a few weeks!

I mean, they even ranked The Slip higher, which I think is revealing. Like Yeezus and RAM, The Slip was much more a zeitgeist, in the moment album, and I think Pitchfork skews towards the obvious / immediate. It's much more in tune with internet digestability than longevity. Different perspectives.

Right now, I'm personally putting HM around an 8.5. Curious to see how I feel in a week or a month.

ninsp
09-03-2013, 10:53 AM
The end of the album is pretty incredible. This guy is a moron. It's some of the best NIN music since The Fragile.

That being said, I still find it about an 8/8.5 after digesting it.

Tiz
09-03-2013, 10:59 AM
they try so hard

sarcastic, passive-aggressive mon bos. meow pitchfork.

Digital Twilight
09-03-2013, 11:03 AM
There has been some very strange and polarising reviews for this album. There's been some great scores of 8 and 9s and then you read a review that praises the album for 90% of the review before giving it a low score only to read another that slates it and then gives it a decent score. I think the problem is its an album you have to spend some time with before you can get to grips with it. Although why anyone would put any value into what Pitchfork say is beyond me.

Khrz
09-03-2013, 11:07 AM
Although why anyone would put any value into what Pitchfork say is beyond me.

I've discovered some pretty great albums thanks to Pitchfork. Why anyone would take any review at face value and not seek out other opinions is the thing that's beyond me.

Digital Twilight
09-03-2013, 11:10 AM
I've discovered some pretty great albums thanks to Pitchfork. Why anyone would take any review at face value and not seek out other opinions is the thing that's beyond me.

I agree, these day with technology and streaming etc there is no reason not to listen and form your own opinion.

billpulsipher
09-03-2013, 11:17 AM
the best songs TR has written in the past 14 years are at the end of the album...They lost me when they said how they loved The Slip....

rboggs
09-03-2013, 11:34 AM
I will always thank pitchfork for the 2 they gave THE FRAGILE when it was released. That was one of two highly negative reviews during that period. I still go back and read it to this day. It's fucking great to read it and see the turn around (everyone just fucking loves it now).

But what were they gonna give it? The fact is PITCHFORK has been highly involved with both NIN and HTDA all year, and has been giving positive reviews for all NIN records since Year Zero (about when Trent started picking up major indie cred. I swear. He has tons now) And that leads to THE SLIP, the one album when I talk to indie kids, they just fucking love. And I get it. It fits in with the music they listen to the most. It's easy to consume, and filled with enough 'deep cuts' they don't have to tread far to feel like they are authentic in their appreciation. Oh and it was FREE, a hipster's price point of choice.

Let's not forget that PITCHFORK jumped on the HTDA WELCOME OBLIVION trailer earlier this year. Hell, that's where I first heard the whole album streaming with their interactive hosting site, which was pretty awesome. Then a week later they review that album and give it a, what, 6.5, or something. It's all about business vs promotion. They can not be seen in bed with Trent Reznor, even though they totally are. Scroll down from that POSITIVE review and check all the news item they are running about NIN.

OH, it's a lot of links. A 7 for HESITATION MARKS is exactly where they should be. It's positive enough so we don't spend too many pages bitching, without them looking like whores. Which they are.

rb

Amaro
09-03-2013, 11:37 AM
I will always thank pitchfork for the 2 they gave THE FRAGILE when it was released. That was one of two highly negative reviews during that period. I still go back and read it to this day. It's fucking great to read it and see the turn around (everyone just fucking loves it now).

But what were they gonna give it? The fact is PITCHFORK has been highly involved with both NIN and HTDA all year, and has been giving positive reviews for all NIN records since Year Zero (about when Trent started picking up major indie cred. I swear. He has tons now) And that leads to THE SLIP, the one album when I talk to indie kids, they just fucking love. And I get it. It fits in with the music they listen to the most. It's easy to consume, and filled with enough 'deep cuts' they don't have to tread far to feel like they are authentic in their appreciation. Oh and it was FREE, a hipster's price point of choice.

Let's not forget that PITCHFORK jumped on the HTDA WELCOME OBLIVION trailer earlier this year. Hell, that's where I first heard the whole album streaming with their interactive hosting site, which was pretty awesome. Then a week later they review that album and give it a, what, 6.5, or something. It's all about business vs promotion. They can not be seen in bed with Trent Reznor, even though they totally are. Scroll down from that POSITIVE review and check all the news item they are running about NIN.

OH, it's a lot of links. A 7 for HESITATION MARKS is exactly where they should be. It's positive enough so we don't spend too many pages bitching, without them looking like whores. Which they are.

rb

i so lold. Good story, brother.

blackholesun
09-03-2013, 12:17 PM
I'm not sure why everyone gets up in arms over Pitchfork's reviews (or anyone else's for that matter). They aren't going to sway your opinion one way or the other anyway. Sure, a positive review might persuade me to check out an album from an artist I've never heard of over a negative one. I've never gotten the big deal about it.

Presideo
09-03-2013, 12:31 PM
I thought it was a good review. Most of you need to understand that someone can have negative views on certain songs while still enjoying the album as a whole. It was a 7.0, not a 10 - the reviewer thought it was good, but flawed in certain areas. He gave valid reasons for why he thought the album wasn't perfect; mainly, the jarringly bad placement of 'Everything' and a lackluster 2nd half. Personally, I liked 'Various Methods of Escape' and 'In Two', though I can understand why some may not enjoy them.

He gave plenty of praise to tracks like 'Copy of A', 'All Time Low', 'Disappointed', and 'Satellite', while also commenting positively on the overall stripped-down vibe of the album.

Also, from last week:

i bet pitchfork gives this like an 8 no joke

More like 6.8-7.4 (not that I agree with that score, I'm just usually good at guessing what Pitchfork will score an album)

It's not hard at all to guess how Pitchfork will rate an album - a 7.0 should be no surprise to those who frequent the site.

Blackbookpress1984
09-03-2013, 12:34 PM
1. EHHHEMMMM... I am neither a goth nor a gamer. Is this guy really that narrow minded??
2. How to destroy angels I "trip-hoppy"? what the actual fuck, get out now, this guy has no idea what he is talking about (furthered by 3)
3. does this guy think that the over abundance of a large vocabulary will somehow make his dithering rant more palatable to a general audience?
4. " that sounds like a second-stage Warped Tour act trying to cover “Just Like Heaven”." Someone just bitch slap this guy now. maybe it's not TR's greatest work, but your gonna rip on the guy like that? WTF (again)
5. "when Reznor says, “I’m still here”-- overtop a synth line that flickers like a dying fluorescent light tube-- it feels less like a statement of survival and defiance than the ennui-ridden admission of an office drone" Could it POSSIBLY be that he MEANT it to sound this way? It would not be the only time on an album duely titled HESITATION MARKS that there is a sound of regret, even the namesake begs the question: is he taking a stab at major labels right in their faces, saying he did not want to go back?

You be the judge. Unless your that guy from pitch fork. In that case, fuck off.

Dragonkaos
09-03-2013, 02:08 PM
Who cares about reviews...

accelestar
09-03-2013, 02:17 PM
the best songs TR has written in the past 14 years are at the end of the album...They lost me when they said how they loved The Slip....
Hey, I loved The Slip too. I just love HM more.

Cemetery Man
09-03-2013, 02:17 PM
Pitchfork sucks at reviews, only good for exploring music a bit. They give artists like Chief Keef higher scores than this, so yeah....

Akuratyde
09-03-2013, 02:47 PM
it's not like a 7 is a "bad" score but whatevs.

It's not exactly a good score, it's a 70%, which would be a "C" in school.

Christo
09-03-2013, 03:07 PM
God, I hate The Slip so much.

Swykk
09-03-2013, 03:27 PM
Those "dead weight plodders" happen to be my favorite songs on the record, hipster butthole.

NINisamazing
09-03-2013, 03:37 PM
I sorta hate the review from pitchfork, they backhanded accused trent of ripping from the knife an the xx, different from his "arena rattling influences?" Like who pitchfork, wtf are you talking about? They pretty much say his lyrics suck, yet they praise yeezus and Rick Ross. Ok, fuck you pitchfork.


I actually like the slip but really, this record is miles above it.

Amaro
09-03-2013, 03:43 PM
It's not exactly a good score, it's a 70%, which would be a "C" in school.

For me, with music, that doesn't really add up to the same point. I don't view the number rating out of 10 so logically. It's more complicated than passing and flunking. But if I must use the numbers, it's coming down from when an album is a "10", as in perfect. So, to me, it should be a percentage out of the tracks/songs on an album, because that's where I'm coming from. As I said to agree with their 7 (but I pretty much hate reading reviews)--for me, that means 3 songs weren't really adding sound benefit to the album, and by the same token may have taken away from the album direction, IMO. And/Or I just don't like them much even as songs.

Out of 14 tracks, 3 on my "off" table--that's "fairly good as an album" or "mostly good shit", in a couple ways of me saying for my 7.

However, Pitchfork may in fact view the 7 as C grade.

Bokononist
09-03-2013, 03:47 PM
The "Best New Music" tag starts at 8.0. This isn't a bad score for Pitchfork.

r_z
09-03-2013, 03:53 PM
The "Best New Music" tag starts at 8.0. This isn't a bad score for Pitchfork.

It doesn't ( see f.e.: http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/18341-ka-the-nights-gambit/ ). I don't really get at which rate it starts. Is it 8.5?

Volk
09-03-2013, 03:58 PM
So who won the pool?

Bokononist
09-03-2013, 04:00 PM
It doesn't ( see f.e.: http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/18341-ka-the-nights-gambit/ ). I don't really get at which rate it starts. Is it 8.5?

Ok. http://pitchfork.com/reviews/best/albums/ Let's try 8.3. Look at all those perfect tens by the way. They should have really thrown HM a bone.

allegro
09-03-2013, 04:34 PM
I will always thank pitchfork for the 2 they gave THE FRAGILE when it was released. That was one of two highly negative reviews during that period. I still go back and read it to this day. It's fucking great to read it and see the turn around (everyone just fucking loves it now).
It still makes me laugh to this day. It's FUNNY, god dammit!


Let's not forget that PITCHFORK jumped on the HTDA WELCOME OBLIVION trailer earlier this year. Hell, that's where I first heard the whole album streaming with their interactive hosting site, which was pretty awesome. Then a week later they review that album and give it a, what, 6.5, or something. It's all about business vs promotion. They can not be seen in bed with Trent Reznor, even though they totally are. Scroll down from that POSITIVE review and check all the news item they are running about NIN.
Yup, they gave Pretty Hate Machine reissue a 9.5 (http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/14890-pretty-hate-machine/)

Even though they gave the the original PHM release a 5.6 (http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/5804-pretty-hate-machine/)

ZeroSum
09-03-2013, 05:25 PM
Pitchfork is one of the most laughable sites on the internet. The fact that The Slip is the most well-received NIN album by their standards shows that they know jack shit about what makes a NIN album good. It doesn't matter what Trent does- they will probably never rate anything he does above a 7.5 anyway. If any NIN album were going to break through to them, it would be this one. There's no fucking way Yeezus or King of Limbs is better than this (ESPECIALLY King of Limbs) but Pitchfork has hard-on's for Kanye and Radiohead so they will always get positive reviews, even if they release crap... and I love Kanye and Radiohead too. The fact is, Pitchfork is more interested in dictating what an album says about its listeners than actually discussing/appreciating/critiquing music. NIN does not really appeal to their hipster cred, so they will never give Trent the props he deserves. You can see it in the way that review was structured... it sounds positive for most of it, but then the reviewer just randomly calls a few of the best tracks on the album clunky and bad and then slaps it with a 7.0. It's like hes struggling to admit he likes it, and then at the last second he tries to look cool in front of his friends. Fuck Pitchfork.

Sorry if that was at all beating a dead horse... I know most of you probably already feel the same about this joke of a website.

allegro
09-03-2013, 05:28 PM
Pitchfork is one of the most laughable sites on the internet. The fact that The Slip is the most well-received NIN album by their standards shows that they know jack shit about what makes a NIN album good. It doesn't matter what Trent does- they will probably never rate anything he does above a 7.5 anyway.

Pitchfork gave the Pretty Hate Machine reissue a 9.5 (http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/14890-pretty-hate-machine/)

Pitchfork gave The Downward Spiral reissue an 8.3 (http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/5802-the-downward-spiral-deluxe-edition/)

staleincense
09-03-2013, 05:36 PM
Pitchfork gave the Pretty Hate Machine reissue a 9.5 (http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/14890-pretty-hate-machine/)

Pitchfork gave The Downward Spiral reissue an 8.3 (http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/5802-the-downward-spiral-deluxe-edition/)
Didn't PHM give the original version of PHM a negative score back in 2004 or something?

allegro
09-03-2013, 05:38 PM
Didn't PHM give the original version of PHM a negative score back in 2004 or something?
Look at my post about 4 posts up, Post #77. See the link.

Bokononist
09-03-2013, 05:43 PM
Didn't PHM give the original version of PHM a negative score back in 2004 or something?

The Rykodisc reissue. Reznor had some choice words for that album himself if I recall correctly.

staleincense
09-03-2013, 05:44 PM
Look at my post about 4 posts up, Post #77. See the link.
...oh right. Of course. :p

ZeroSum
09-03-2013, 06:10 PM
Pitchfork gave the Pretty Hate Machine reissue a 9.5 (http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/14890-pretty-hate-machine/)

Pitchfork gave The Downward Spiral reissue an 8.3 (http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/5802-the-downward-spiral-deluxe-edition/)

Woah, my bad. I usually only look up reviews for new albums, so my bad. I gotta say, writing a review in retrospect like those is a much different ball game though. They are reaffirming records that everyone already loves instead of trying to set trends. Fuck pitchfork still though. The Kid A review still makes my stomach churn

allegro
09-03-2013, 06:17 PM
"Stomach churn?" Really? I think a lot of you people take this music journalism thing WAY too seriously (and dramatically).

It's just journalism, people. Even glowing reviews are just music journalism; in the end, they're all paid by advertising dollars.

Butterscotch
09-03-2013, 06:17 PM
"while the album’s second half in particular is bogged down by dead-weight plodders (“Various Methods of Escape”, “I Would For You”, “In Two”) whose predictably amped-up choruses can’t enliven their sputtering tempos and flagging energy."

And those are my favorite songs on the album. LOL.

Moebius
09-03-2013, 06:24 PM
Honestly, though I like the album quite a bit, they had some decent points. I don't think the score is incongruous to the text; I think it's more like when the teacher gives you a frustrated "you could do better" mark.

ComradeCornhole
09-03-2013, 07:04 PM
It's very simple to explain why people care about reviews: They want their tastes, and by extension, themselves validated. Even more so by the supposedly "cool kids" at Pitchfork. It comes down to ego, but it's natural. I think Hesitation Marks is groundbreaking and a great listen, but when supposed music experts tell me it's not, it makes me feel like I don't know what makes music "good". People shitting on things you like feels like they're shitting on you. Then I remember that people are different and experiencing art is entirely subjective and we shouldn't be ashamed of what we like or even why we like it or even feel like we have to justify it.

NINisamazing
09-03-2013, 08:08 PM
Pitchfork does have good music on it, but they are not consistent. Some of the records they have praised in the past have been comical. I guess them loving Rick Ross and lil Wayne is just ironical.

allegro
09-03-2013, 08:24 PM
it makes me feel like I don't know what makes music "good"
I gave up knowing what's "good" (by current standards) a long time ago; there's tons of music that I think is boring while music journalists (and people on this board) insist it's "good" or even "groundbreaking." And I've been hoodwinked into thinking stuff is good, only to realize it was just boring music wrapped in hype.

Kid Charlemagne
09-03-2013, 08:25 PM
Most of the bitching and complaining about the website is exactly the response Pitchfork wants. I love the site and I gave the album a similar review last week, though I disliked the album for different reasons. When it comes down to it, the review is from one person. I talked to Ryan from Pitchfork around 2011 and when I brought up the positive reviews the site had given to Coldplay's Mylo Xyloto and the debut Foster the People LP, Ryan disagreed with the reviews and even said how he thought the albums were undeserving of those scores, but that's what the reviewers thought, so they printed them anyway. The site obviously loves and respects Trent and to a degree, Trent respects the site, so it shouldn't too much of a concern. Hell, there are tons of people on this thread who know how much I love Pitchfork, but I don't always agree with them, to the point where I thought Okkervil River's new LP (which was also reviewed on the site today) is a masterpiece and one of the best LP's of the year...and it scored less than Hesitation Marks, which will in all likelihood be an album that sits on my shelf never to be played for the foreseeable future. Opinions are different, just like my opinion about the album shouldn't represent that of ETS, Stuart Berman (who is generally hit or miss) has an opinion that I'm sure doesn't match that of Steven Hyden's, who also writes for Pitchfork, and leaves sort of a glowing review here: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9628975/the-career-trent-reznor-nine-inch-nails

NINisamazing
09-03-2013, 08:35 PM
The first few sentences of the review were fucking annoying, fuck this guy.



I actually occasionally go to pitchfork to discover new music, but I am very skeptical of their reviewers. I just find it fucking ridiculous that there are people who base their whole opinion of music strictly from that site. Yes, these people do exist. Like what the fuck is wrong with you?


I just find their journalism to be incredibly lazy, elitist and shallow. Some of the things they have said about records are borderline comical.

allegro
09-03-2013, 08:42 PM
I (like Kid Charlemagne) like a lot of their writers; I tend to trust certain writers over other writers. It's really stupid to group all their writers as representatives of Pitchfork.

I love Roger Ebert's and Richard Roeper's movie reviews but I do NOT love all of the film critics at the Sun-Times.


Some of the things they have said about records are borderline comical.
No, not "borderline comical;" ARE COMICAL. Intentionally. Long long ago, there was a music magazine from Detroit called "Creem" with a very famous funny editor and writer called Lester Bangs and sometimes Pitchfork writers come very close to channeling Lester (or the other really funny Creem writers).

pinkfloid
09-03-2013, 09:03 PM
...Stuart Berman (who is generally hit or miss) has an opinion that I'm sure doesn't match that of Steven Hyden's, who also writes for Pitchfork, and leaves sort of a glowing review here: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9628975/the-career-trent-reznor-nine-inch-nails

I LOVED the writing in this article. Many thanks for sharing.

NINisamazing
09-03-2013, 09:07 PM
Most of the bitching and complaining about the website is exactly the response Pitchfork wants. I love the site and I gave the album a similar review last week, though I disliked the album for different reasons. When it comes down to it, the review is from one person. I talked to Ryan from Pitchfork around 2011 and when I brought up the positive reviews the site had given to Coldplay's Mylo Xyloto and the debut Foster the People LP, Ryan disagreed with the reviews and even said how he thought the albums were undeserving of those scores, but that's what the reviewers thought, so they printed them anyway. The site obviously loves and respects Trent and to a degree, Trent respects the site, so it shouldn't too much of a concern. Hell, there are tons of people on this thread who know how much I love Pitchfork, but I don't always agree with them, to the point where I thought Okkervil River's new LP (which was also reviewed on the site today) is a masterpiece and one of the best LP's of the year...and it scored less than Hesitation Marks, which will in all likelihood be an album that sits on my shelf never to be played for the foreseeable future. Opinions are different, just like my opinion about the album shouldn't represent that of ETS, Stuart Berman (who is generally hit or miss) has an opinion that I'm sure doesn't match that of Steven Hyden's, who also writes for Pitchfork, and leaves sort of a glowing review here: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9628975/the-career-trent-reznor-nine-inch-nails

Very good points, you are probably right.

And thanks for posting that article, I just sent it to a friend of mine. One of the better NIN articles I have seen in awhile.

Kid Charlemagne
09-03-2013, 09:23 PM
I LOVED the writing in this article. Many thanks for sharing.
No problem. I read it at work today, you should check out more of his columns on Grantland, he's one of my favorite writers.


Very good points, you are probably right.

And thanks for posting that article, I just sent it to a friend of mine. One of the better NIN articles I have seen in awhile.

I thought so as well, the career arc of it was well done. You can obviously tell he's a fan of NIN and the article comes off as more insightful than it does a fanboy splooging, which is a medium I think most writers in music sort of forget.

Bluepiggy
09-03-2013, 10:57 PM
A 7 is fine from them, I wasn't thinking they were going to be too keen on it. One of my favorite records by Animal Collective got a 7.4 from them last year. I was thinking they were going to give it a worse score for some reason.

The album is a 10 in my book and while I tend to agree with most of Pitchfork's reviews, I don't this time.

thats my favorite animal collective album too! ;)
but back on topic.
I don't care about the score really. The second I read that the last few songs of the album were the worst and that the slip is a better album, the review lost all credibility.

ManBurning
09-04-2013, 03:49 AM
Guys, they're saying The Slip was a better album! Hahahahaha!

It is.....

KarenLeslie
09-04-2013, 09:12 AM
I like both Hesitation Marks and The Slip and it's TEARING ME UP INSIDE.

joplinpicasso
09-04-2013, 09:37 AM
They obviously prefer the leaner, (truly) minimalist Nine Inch Nails sound more, i.e. The Slip. They love when artists 'break free' of their precocious styles and become inclusive and straightforward, so to speak. It really comes as no surprise that they rated this a 7 out of 10, even if the quantity itself is a bit nonsensical. During that Vevo behind-the-scenes video, Trent mused about taking the stage in Tokyo, playing "Copy of A" for the first time, and wondering if it all felt stupid, but the shouting crowd in front of him told him otherwise. That's all I'm concerned about, too.

jmtd
09-04-2013, 09:49 AM
It's not a very positive review but I think it's pretty fairly constructed: it's at least commenting on the album, referencing specific features of tracks, it has pros and cons. One of the better Pitchfork reviews I've read.

Pulsewidthmod
09-13-2013, 07:44 AM
Bahahaha. Yeah right man.

Hmmmm .. sarcasm?

I think Trent/NIN transcends mainstream status ...

also, i'm not a man ;)

HurtinMinorKey
09-13-2013, 05:04 PM
They gave Kanye's last two albums 10, and 9.5. He's a great producer, but the dude can't flow, and his lyrics are trash (easily as bad as TRs). If someone else made those albums they's be getting 7s, 8s at most.

All that being said, at least their score for hesitation marks wasn't an outright insult, like it was for the Fragile. 7 is low, but reasonable.

richardp
09-13-2013, 05:27 PM
They gave Kanye's last two albums 10, and 9.5. He's a great producer, but the dude can't flow, and his lyrics are trash (easily as bad as TRs). If someone else made those albums they's be getting 7s, 8s at most.

All that being said, at least their score for hesitation marks wasn't an outright insult, like it was for the Fragile. 7 is low, but reasonable.

Kanye's last two albums were totally deserving of those scores, though.

nineismine
09-13-2013, 05:52 PM
Kanye's last two albums were totally deserving of those scores, though.
Lol you gotta be trolling. I hate the man but respect his ability to put out music people want to buy. That said the last album was adventurous and he deserves credit but that album is NOT a 9 or even a 10.

Pulsewidthmod
09-13-2013, 05:56 PM
... sorry, off topic

EndlessLoveless
09-13-2013, 06:18 PM
Most of the bitching and complaining about the website is exactly the response Pitchfork wants. I love the site and I gave the album a similar review last week, though I disliked the album for different reasons. When it comes down to it, the review is from one person. I talked to Ryan from Pitchfork around 2011 and when I brought up the positive reviews the site had given to Coldplay's Mylo Xyloto and the debut Foster the People LP, Ryan disagreed with the reviews and even said how he thought the albums were undeserving of those scores, but that's what the reviewers thought, so they printed them anyway. The site obviously loves and respects Trent and to a degree, Trent respects the site, so it shouldn't too much of a concern. Hell, there are tons of people on this thread who know how much I love Pitchfork, but I don't always agree with them, to the point where I thought Okkervil River's new LP (which was also reviewed on the site today) is a masterpiece and one of the best LP's of the year...and it scored less than Hesitation Marks, which will in all likelihood be an album that sits on my shelf never to be played for the foreseeable future. Opinions are different, just like my opinion about the album shouldn't represent that of ETS, Stuart Berman (who is generally hit or miss) has an opinion that I'm sure doesn't match that of Steven Hyden's, who also writes for Pitchfork, and leaves sort of a glowing review here: http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9628975/the-career-trent-reznor-nine-inch-nails

I also really enjoyed that article, thanks for sharing. Only thing i dont agree with, he says the wait in between TDS an TF didnt feel like that long at the time......................yes it did.

Failure
09-13-2013, 07:07 PM
Fuck Pitchfork. They rated my two favorite albums of all time a combined score of 2.8 (Lateralus and The Fragile). Yet they give Lil Wayne mix tapes and fucking noreaga albums 8.7's..

Ichiro
09-13-2013, 07:53 PM
Fuck Pitchfork. They rated my two favorite albums of all time a combined score of 2.8 (Lateralus and The Fragile). Yet they give Lil Wayne mix tapes and fucking noreaga albums 8.7's..

Well, you know, people have different tastes in music...

I saw today that they mentioned TR at the end of their new Factory Floor review:

"But in a year where the likes of Kanye and Trent Reznor have reached deep into the dark circuitry of the Wax Trax back catalog to revive the corpse of industrial music, Factory Floor’s relentlessness suits the present moment."

What part about Hesitation Marks screams "Industrial" to anyone? And how is it in any way supposed to sound like the old Wax Trax stuff? That sentence says a lot more about the quality of their writing than the scores that they give the albums.

HurtinMinorKey
09-15-2013, 12:26 PM
Kanye's last two albums were totally deserving of those scores, though.

Sure, a guy who can't rap, creates the two highest rated rap albums in the past 3 years. Not likely. Not to mention that half of the the albums are just samples of other people's music.

GentlemanLoser
09-16-2013, 01:49 AM
Guys, they're saying The Slip was a better album! Hahahahaha!

They are not the only one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXl_9cCuaAU

I guess the hipsters just really loved The Slip. Who would have thought. The Slip is alright and stuff, but man, it's not their best.

HurtinMinorKey
09-16-2013, 09:07 AM
At the risk of being too vague, the Slip sounds like it has more NIN soul in it. Hesitation Marks sounds like Trent Spent a few weeks coming up with song ideas and then Atticus and the producers spent months crafting the sound. So while the production is quite good, I can't help but feel that HM is sort of NIN light.

nineismine
09-16-2013, 12:03 PM
They are not the only one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXl_9cCuaAU

I guess the hipsters just really loved The Slip. Who would have thought. The Slip is alright and stuff, but man, it's not their best.

wait!!!! This guy is a hipster????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA I kid I kid!

henryeatscereal
09-16-2013, 12:33 PM
WTF?

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/5799-the-fragile/

:eek:


In essence, Reznor is Marilyn Manson without the makeup (which is a bit like Kiss without the makeup). The Fragile is simply Music for 'The Elder for the digital age. I take comfort knowing that the passing of another decade will make this record seem as amusingly insincere as 10CC.

Sutekh
09-16-2013, 01:34 PM
The Fragile review was just attention seeking rubbish. I can accept someone not liking it, but the ridiculously low rating (you really need more sins for a 20% rating, low scores like that suggest issues such as technical incompetence) and the abundant (and therefore obvious) stabs at controversial soundbites give the game away.

as for insincerity... I suppose it is possible he put on the substance abuse as part of an act, but it's more likely he was being sincere and the reviewer was just looking for a quick way to undermine the album's credibility in order to maintain the pretense that the low rating was totally justified.

staleincense
09-16-2013, 01:47 PM
Well, you know, people have different tastes in music...

I saw today that they mentioned TR at the end of their new Factory Floor review:

"But in a year where the likes of Kanye and Trent Reznor have reached deep into the dark circuitry of the Wax Trax back catalog to revive the corpse of industrial music, Factory Floor’s relentlessness suits the present moment."

What part about Hesitation Marks screams "Industrial" to anyone? And how is it in any way supposed to sound like the old Wax Trax stuff? That sentence says a lot more about the quality of their writing than the scores that they give the albums.
Anything Trent Reznor touches is always called industrial by people who have no idea what the term means or have any familiarity the genre regardless of what it actually sounds like.

Microwave Jellyfish
09-16-2013, 02:11 PM
WTF?

http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/5799-the-fragile/

:eek:



While we're at it, you should check out the score and review for Things Falling Apart too. I know, it was panned pretty much by everyone, but still:


http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/5798-things-falling-apart/


I have a feeling that being "dated" or "outdated" was the biggest sin an artist could commit in their eyes. It wasn't like nowadays, when being retro and reflective to the eighties is the hot thing - if your early 2000's album didn't sound like a dirty, trendy Missy Elliott record, or just generally didn't contain enough hip-hop, you better pitched the fork outta their way. Yep, I just wrote that. Feel free to facepalm this post, there won't be any hard feelings.

staleincense
09-16-2013, 04:47 PM
I haven't actually listened to Things Falling Apart (the only track I've heard is the cover of "Metal"), so I can't really comment. People do seem to disregard the fact that it exists, though. Maybe there's a good reason for that....

Microwave Jellyfish
09-16-2013, 05:31 PM
It's really not that bad, if you ask me.

OK, I don't like the three - out of 10 tracks - Starfuckers versions (not a big fan of the song to begin with, 'cept for the AATCHB performance), but otherwise this is probably the remix album I've listened to the most. The most times, I mean.

henryeatscereal
09-16-2013, 06:50 PM
While we're at it, you should check out the score and review for Things Falling Apart too. I know, it was panned pretty much by everyone, but still:


http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/5798-things-falling-apart/


I have a feeling that being "dated" or "outdated" was the biggest sin an artist could commit in their eyes. It wasn't like nowadays, when being retro and reflective to the eighties is the hot thing - if your early 2000's album didn't sound like a dirty, trendy Missy Elliott record, or just generally didn't contain enough hip-hop, you better pitched the fork outta their way. Yep, I just wrote that. Feel free to facepalm this post, there won't be any hard feelings.
I think this article gives you enough reasons to not take Pitchfork seriously, bunch of hipster wankers...