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pinkfloid
08-27-2013, 04:56 PM
After just a couple of cursory listens it's been really interesting to see how self-referential Trent has been with Hesitation Marks.

There are lyrical throwbacks and musical references to lots of his old work with NIN and I thought it might be nice to collect and compile some thoughts on that here.

For instance, the lyrics 1/2 way through Copy of A reference The Perfect Drug with the cut off "Pieces" lyric right before the track explodes with that amazing TPD mandolin sound.

There was also a track (I don't have the album on now so I'm not sure the title) that seemed to start with a very similar intro to Gave Up.

I'd love to read about some interesting lyrical and musical similarities you all have found on the album too.

brokenfragility
08-27-2013, 06:26 PM
I thought the way the word "high" echoes off toward the end (about 4:17) of All Time Low was a little referential to Ten Miles High. It kinda makes sense too with The Fragile being when he was at an all time low.

colletta
08-27-2013, 06:59 PM
At the end of "find my way", he whispers "I have gone to every place, I have been to everywhere" and he starts to say it more and more like how he sings in "I do not want this" (I think is the song?) when he screams "I want to be everywhereee, I wanna fuck everyone in the world! I wanna do something that matters!" It's as if he's saying he got what he wanted

jessamineny
08-27-2013, 07:20 PM
You're not the first person to say that. I just really disagree (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/1691-halo-twenty-eight-hesitation-marks-09-03-2013?p=122603#post122603) with that interpretation.

colletta
08-27-2013, 07:32 PM
I actually agree with your interpretation, however, I definitely think it was a deliberate allusion to I do not want this, whether or not the line actually has any direct connection

pigpen
08-27-2013, 07:51 PM
I thought the way the word "high" echoes off toward the end (about 4:17) of All Time Low was a little referential to Ten Miles High.

I thought that exact same thing.
Also, and I know this has been mentioned, but the beginning of Copy of A sounds a little like the beginning of Heresy, especially when that bass hit kicks in.

slave2thewage
08-27-2013, 07:52 PM
I think While I'm Still Here reuses some elements from Zero-Sum musically, which is interesting considering the "Remember when..." lyric in the last chorus.

pigpen
08-27-2013, 08:28 PM
during the "I think I could lose myself in here" part of VMOE, the instrumentation sounds exactly like the beginning of Reptile.
And the exit of that part sounds like it could go crashing directly into WITT

tw3rbz
08-27-2013, 08:46 PM
I thought that exact same thing.
Also, and I know this has been mentioned, but the beginning of Copy of A sounds a little like the beginning of Heresy, especially when that bass hit kicks in.
I agree with this.

tw3rbz
08-27-2013, 08:47 PM
during the "I think I could lose myself in here" part of VMOE, the instrumentation sounds exactly like the beginning of Reptile.
And the exit of that part sounds like it could go crashing directly into WITT
I also agree with this... Fuckin goosebumps man.

wizfan
08-27-2013, 09:06 PM
The last piano note of I Would For You and the drone bleed into In Two is almost identical to the transition between Lights in the Sky and Corona Radiata.

seasonsinthesky
08-27-2013, 09:33 PM
You're not the first person to say that. I just really disagree (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/1691-halo-twenty-eight-hesitation-marks-09-03-2013?p=122603#post122603) with that interpretation.

they're not mutually exclusive. i consider your linked post an astute reflection on the lyrical meaning, but it's extremely obvious from the all-too-exact phrasing that these lines were intended to evoke "I Do Not Want This" and create an obvious allusion to TDS, like the artwork. TR could have chosen any way from a myriad of possibilities to express those thoughts, but the ones he chose follow an exact and deliberate pattern from a song that prominently features such lyrical construction.


For instance, the lyrics 1/2 way through Copy of A reference The Perfect Drug with the cut off "Pieces" lyric right before the track explodes with that amazing TPD mandolin sound.

i have to disagree with that, as the cutoff of the word 'pieces' is caused by the looping effect on his vocal, rather than TPD simply cutting off the word when the entire song cuts off. he completes the word after the looping stops.

brokenfragility
08-27-2013, 09:44 PM
speaking of Reptile, there is a song on Hesitation Marks with a sound that is I think supposed to be reminiscent of the crazy robot sample in Reptile. I forgot what track its on. I'm about to listen to it all the way through again so I may edit this with the song I heard it in.

jessamineny
08-27-2013, 10:23 PM
they're not mutually exclusive. i consider your linked post an astute reflection on the lyrical meaning, but it's extremely obvious from the all-too-exact phrasing that these lines were intended to evoke "I Do Not Want This" and create an obvious allusion to TDS, like the artwork.

I don't disagree about the mutually exclusive part. However, both people who have brought up the allusion have drawn a much stronger connection to the songs and lyrics than simply evocative phrasing. :)

colletta
08-27-2013, 10:26 PM
speaking of Reptile, there is a song on Hesitation Marks with a sound that is I think supposed to be reminiscent of the crazy robot sample in Reptile. I forgot what track its on. I'm about to listen to it all the way through again so I may edit this with the song I heard it in.

I heard the exact same sample you're talking about but couldn't find it when I was trying to show my girlfriend. I KNOW I heard it though, somewhere.

Wasabi
08-27-2013, 10:42 PM
speaking of Reptile, there is a song on Hesitation Marks with a sound that is I think supposed to be reminiscent of the crazy robot sample in Reptile. I forgot what track its on. I'm about to listen to it all the way through again so I may edit this with the song I heard it in.

I think the song you are referring to is the last track Black Noise, which I think might signify the chaos that looms right outside aka the downward spiral. I feel there are bits of the robot noise throughout the record sprinkled in small bits, just with out the full blown noise that is synonymous with TDS but I might be hearing things...

Anyway i'm going to go listen to it again and so i'm sure i'll pick out more instances where i hear that throwback to TDS. One song it kind of sounds like it is disappointed.

There is also a part in Various Methods of Escape that sounds like something from the Fragile.

OSLIN
08-27-2013, 11:27 PM
I mentioned this yesterday in the HM thread.
All Time Low: Bowie "it looks as though they're here to stay" from Hunky Dory's Oh! You Pretty Things. This is an obvious shout out. Also the guitar riff changes during this line to sound like the bowie riff. This can't be an accident.
VMOE: HTDA call back "illuminates the (final) scene"
Running: Is it me or musically I'm noticing a lot of musical call backs to PHM?

tw3rbz
08-27-2013, 11:28 PM
I think the song you are referring to is the last track Black Noise, which I think might signify the chaos that looms right outside aka the downward spiral. I feel there are bits of the robot noise throughout the record sprinkled in small bits, just with out the full blown noise that is synonymous with TDS but I might be hearing things...

Anyway i'm going to go listen to it again and so i'm sure i'll pick out more instances where i hear that throwback to TDS. One song it kind of sounds like it is disappointed.

There is also a part in Various Methods of Escape that sounds like something from the Fragile.
You guys referring to the 3:00 mark on Various Methods?

captainbeyond
08-27-2013, 11:44 PM
I actually get a "Sunspots" vibe from "Various Methods."

brokenfragility
08-27-2013, 11:46 PM
Its I Would For You! Right before the chorus, total Reptile esq sound. Listen, you'll hear it. Its awesome.

Cat Mom
08-27-2013, 11:51 PM
All Time Low: Bowie "it looks as though they're here to stay" from Hunky Dory's Oh! You Pretty Things.
Could that possibly be from the Beatles' "Yesterday? (http://www.metrolyrics.com/yesterday-lyrics-beatles.html)" Or, it's just a really-used line because "stay" rhymes with a lot of stuff?

RGM81
08-27-2013, 11:58 PM
Satellite @ 3:05 - the haunting backing from Eraser is sorta there. Not exact by any stretch but I'll be damned if it didn't remind me of it.

Merriweather
08-28-2013, 12:28 AM
All Time Low seems to share the Closer drum beat during parts of the song.

steelnails95
08-28-2013, 12:41 AM
In Two= Every NIN song put into one!!! My mind has been blown!

antiskum
08-28-2013, 12:43 AM
yeah all time low reminded me of ten miles high

binaryhermit
08-28-2013, 12:44 AM
In Two= Every NIN song put into one!!! My mind has been blown!
https://lh3.ggpht.com/-ZunQxdab5-8/T7vvXxRReCI/AAAAAAAAEpc/e-M0I7TrUSA/s1600/Screen-shot-2012-05-22-at-9.52.54-AM.gif

pib
08-28-2013, 01:19 AM
I've lurked in this forum for too many years, but for whatever reason, I have to break my silence tonight.

Various Methods of Escape. I hear the Sunspot reference with Caption Beyond mentioned with the song's droning synth noise. But to me this song sounds like "And All That Could Have Been", with the quiet "I could lose myself in here" lyrics repeated, eventually breaking out to a grand guitar solo. (On the iTunes stream it starts 40:13.)

Also, during the quiet part it has the same dripping noise as Reptile...

Papagolash
08-28-2013, 01:19 AM
I am little pieces, pieces that were picked up on the way. - Copy of A

I pick things up, I am a collector. And things, well things they tend to accumulate - The Collector

Tried so hard to make the pieces all fit, smash it apart just for the fuck of it - The Big Come Down

Without you everything falls apart, without you it's not as much fun to pick up the pieces - The Perfect Drug

Gonna smash myself to pieces I don't know what else to do - Gave Up

All the pieces don't fit thought I really didn't give a shit - Where is Everybody?

Feel the little pieces bleeding through - Beside You in Time

All these pieces and promises and left behinds - And All That Could Have Been

I smashed myself to pieces - Now I'm Nothing


Did I miss any?

thefragile_jake
08-28-2013, 01:23 AM
"In Two" reminds me of the intensity of "Mr. Self Destruct"...there's even a quiet portion of the song where everything is in the eye of the storm before it all goes crazy again.

Plus I think the lyrics during that section reflect a different kind of mind frame with a similar situation....

'...And I control you'
'...I just don't know any more'

InvitingmeAway
08-28-2013, 02:15 AM
I think the background noise in the bridge of In two is taken from a part of the title track for TDS

d-signet
08-28-2013, 04:14 AM
all time low @ 3:13 - outro to The Great Destroyer in the background

black noise - seems to have bits from lots of songs, the one that stands out for me is the intro to Closer (Precursor)

nowimnothing
08-28-2013, 05:15 AM
Is it me or musically I'm noticing a lot of musical call backs to PHM?

Yes, I do too. Although, not in a sample kind of way - more the style, composition and dynamics. But I also think that is because HM is musically a tribute to the many artists that have influenced him.

ataxia
08-28-2013, 06:43 AM
one of the songs (While I'm Still Here?) has the lyric "and all that might have been."

"Wave Goodbye" in Everything.

Khrz
08-28-2013, 06:47 AM
I'm pretty convinced the voice in In Two is the voice in Mr Self Destruct. Not the sound, the "you let me do this to you" voice in the character's head.

baudolino
08-28-2013, 06:56 AM
Percussion at the end of VMOE resembles "Dead Souls" drums imo

icklekitty
08-28-2013, 07:20 AM
Find My Way and While I'm Still Here have very similar vocal melodies. Also the minor keys from The Fragile are all over this.

I have been thinking that this album may be the feminine counterpart to TDS's masculinity/insecurity. I need to properly formulate thoughts before expanding on that though.

I am yet to properly delve into the lyrics; it's all been sonic for me so far.

OSLIN
08-28-2013, 07:37 AM
I am little pieces, pieces that were picked up on the way. - Copy of A

I pick things up, I am a collector. And things, well things they tend to accumulate - The Collector

Tried so hard to make the pieces all fit, smash it apart just for the fuck of it - The Big Come Down

Without you everything falls apart, without you it's not as much fun to pick up the pieces - The Perfect Drug

Gonna smash myself to pieces I don't know what else to do - Gave Up

All the pieces don't fit thought I really didn't give a shit - Where is Everybody?

Feel the little pieces bleeding through - Beside You in Time

All these pieces and promises and left behinds - And All That Could Have Been

I smashed myself to pieces - Now I'm Nothing


Did I miss any?

I don't think so, but now I know who the Collector is...


Spoiler!








http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u344/joslinin/et_zpsa7856ce2.jpg (http://s518.photobucket.com/user/joslinin/media/et_zpsa7856ce2.jpg.html)

Dimitri.
08-28-2013, 09:00 AM
The guitar riff at the end of Satellite sounds like The Big Come Down, Ripe and Skin of a Drum (I believe the original title for the demo sent to Saul was 'Mark').

Lew
08-28-2013, 10:51 AM
[QUOTE=icklekitty;1236

I have been thinking that this album may be the feminine counterpart to TDS's masculinity/insecurity. I need to properly formulate thoughts before expanding on that though[/QUOTE]

for a lot of the album, i agree.

Khrz
08-28-2013, 10:52 AM
I have been thinking that this album may be the feminine counterpart to TDS's masculinity/insecurity. I need to properly formulate thoughts before expanding on that though.

Please do, when you feel you grabbed the gist of it ! I'd be very interested in reading that.

antiskum
08-28-2013, 11:19 AM
the soft part at the end of 'in two' reminds me so much of 'and all that could have been'

imail724
08-28-2013, 11:24 AM
Don't know if its been mentioned already, but keeping with the idea that the album is sort of an "upward spiral", I thought the line "if I could be somebody else, well I think I would for you" directly opposes the line "you make me perfect, help me become somebody else". In IWFY he wants to change himself for the person he is talking to, while in closer he wants to change because he is the person the other person wants him to be.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Kyle
08-28-2013, 01:02 PM
I don't disagree about the mutually exclusive part. However, both people who have brought up the allusion have drawn a much stronger connection to the songs and lyrics than simply evocative phrasing. :)

No actually what he said was exactly what I was thinking and was going to reply to you with earlier except that I was busy and dead tired at the time and never got back to it. I'm not sure where you got that from since all I said (or remember saying) was that it was an obvious reference to the song. Doesn't mean it can't work on multiple levels.

Ryan Tollefson
08-28-2013, 02:20 PM
Towards the end of "came back haunted" there is a sound that resembles the piano end of Closer that appears quite a few times on TDS.

Machines
08-29-2013, 12:48 AM
Probably not quite what you guys are after but from a design perspective:

http://splintr.com/userfiles/Hesitation%20Marks.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ojCwA5ipnR0/UbCpB-liljI/AAAAAAAABDE/qrpePJ7eSBo/s640/600445_10151674210286221_1629983305_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/p480x480/1150408_10151844747950883_1246628551_n.jpg

Pretty Hate Machine - Oversaturated, clashing colour palette, blue & pink especially.

Broken/Fixed - Typography in all lowercase, orange & blue set to oppose each other

The Downward Spiral - organic decay, animal skin textures, stains, rusted and corroded metal, off-yellows and red-browns in palette.

The Fragile - Cut-off logo, Photo collage aesthetic, Shallow depth-of-field photography

Ghosts - Abstract macro photography

With Teeth/Bleedthrough - Ink runoff (organic). Maybe some digitised runoff in something I haven't seen?

I'm betting there'll be more visual references in the book - expecting some pixel distortion from Year Zero. Maybe some minimalist graphics for The Slip?
In the artwork teaser the photos seem to be influenced a lot by past music videos (Closer, Burn and Into The Void specifically).

thefragile_jake
08-29-2013, 01:02 AM
Percussion at the end of VMOE resembles "Dead Souls" drums imo

I came here to say the exact same thing, it's different in it's presentation but I hear Dead Souls in there as well.

Bachy
08-29-2013, 01:06 AM
I feel like I'm hearing the opening to "A Warm Place" in the transition from "I Would For You" to "In Two."

Sesquipedalism
08-29-2013, 01:18 AM
Don't know if its been mentioned already, but keeping with the idea that the album is sort of an "upward spiral", I thought the line "if I could be somebody else, well I think I would for you" directly opposes the line "you make me perfect, help me become somebody else". In IWFY he wants to change himself for the person he is talking to, while in closer he wants to change because he is the person the other person wants him to be.


It's also interesting when juxtaposed with the line "If I could start again a million miles away, I would keep myself."

Sesquipedalism
08-29-2013, 01:37 AM
306

Has anyone—and this is not a completely ridiculous question to ask; I remember the lot of you who still hang on this board, but were around for the ARG—figured out what the upside down text on the cover of the "Everything" single is? Now that we "know" a lot of the lyrics, is it possibly part of one of LP tracks' lyrics? Oddly, it looks like it's in the font that the site someecards.com uses.

Also, it is perhaps worth pondering that this image uses pretty much the exact same color palette as the cover of Spiral​.

GentlemanLoser
08-29-2013, 01:41 AM
I think that Running has some strong Josh Wink references. There is nothing in nine inch nails's catalog that even sounds remotely like Running, not even on the record 'Hesitation Marks', which like everything nine inch nails records sounds like industrial rock. Funny then that this one song of nine inch nails's sounds just like a Josh Wink song huh?

Now please link me to the music of nine inch nails that sounds anything like Running. Thanx in advance.

Machines
08-29-2013, 02:41 AM
306

Has anyone—and this is not a completely ridiculous question to ask; I remember the lot of you who still hang on this board, but were around for the ARG—figured out what the upside down text on the cover of the "Everything" single is? Now that we "know" a lot of the lyrics, is it possibly part of one of LP tracks' lyrics? Oddly, it looks like it's in the font that the site someecards.com uses.

Also, it is perhaps worth pondering that this image uses pretty much the exact same color palette as the cover of Spiral​.

Only two words start with "busi" - business and busily. And the sentence ends with "ance" - in context I'm guessing the word is finance, and this is just a newspaper scrap.

Sesquipedalism
08-29-2013, 03:14 AM
Well, that's a disappointment. Thank you, @Machines (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/members/3667-Machines).

Sesquipedalism
08-29-2013, 04:25 AM
Is it my imagination, or do the sound that opens "Eater of Dreams," the sound from the right channel, and the second (um) "oily hinge" noise make up something that resembles an outrageously crude skeleton of the "La Mer"/"Into the Void" melody? Obviously not the melody itself, but the beat and the extra emphasis that "hinge" noise makes would be on the first note.

If so, then holy shit.

If not, well, then at least I can point to the Everything from 2007 Forward Is Considered Probably Part of an ARG crowd and say, "At least what I said wasn't the most insane thing anyone on this board has ever suggested."

butter_hole
08-29-2013, 04:44 AM
during the "I think I could lose myself in here" part of VMOE, the instrumentation sounds exactly like the beginning of Reptile.
And the exit of that part sounds like it could go crashing directly into WITT
i always thought that part sounds like a 2013 version of the fragile bridge or the mr self destruct bridge!

Fred
08-29-2013, 08:32 AM
The use of terraced dynamics in In Two mirrors the piano breakdown in With Teeth. It becomes particularly interesting if you combine the lyrics:

I cannot go through this again
I just don't know anymore

pinkfloid
08-29-2013, 07:55 PM
thanks to everyone for all of your input...very interesting theories and finds!

I'm still loving how fresh it all sounds while still referencing and not hiding from the (painful) past.

tiempo
08-29-2013, 08:38 PM
Great ears all -
I am sure it was mentioned in another thread, but the obvious sounds from Closer in VMOE (:50). I want to say I can vaguely make out the beginning of Somewhat Damaged (1:25) - which that song seems to be a thread throughout HM (FMW-W.I.S.H.). Seems to be a lot of references in VMOE in particular. Reptile, Mr. Self Destuct, The Fragile...

nineismine
08-29-2013, 09:44 PM
I could be crazy today but I was listening to find my way and have decided that the percussive beat that plays throughout the song sounds very similar the rattle snake like sound that that's at one minute into reptile.

I can see some parallels between the two songs. In Reptile he sounds as if he is very angry with women / a woman, and in find my way he seems to be apologetic to someone he has lost? Could the object that caused him so much anger to write a song like reptile perhaps be the one whose gone away in find my way? I can imagine a scenario where one might feel guilty about the way they treated people in the past during addiction so I don't think its TOO far fetched... who knows though im terrible at this.

goingincirclez
08-29-2013, 10:00 PM
The Downward Spiral's desperate fulcrum: "Annie, hold a little tighter: I might just slip away..."

Hesitation Marks' haunting denouement: "Stay with me, hold me near, while I'm still here"

Frozen Beach
08-29-2013, 11:05 PM
I'm pretty sure the line "You know me, I can't help myself" in Came Back Haunted is a reference to Discipline.

minusthesnake
08-29-2013, 11:17 PM
The use of terraced dynamics in In Two mirrors the piano breakdown in With Teeth. It becomes particularly interesting if you combine the lyrics:

I cannot go through this again
I just don't know anymore

Yeah, that part reminds me of "With Teeth" every time.

billpulsipher
08-29-2013, 11:19 PM
Copy Of A reminds me of Ringfinger, especially the beginnings of both songs with the similar synth sounds

Sesquipedalism
08-29-2013, 11:38 PM
I'm pretty sure the line "You know me, I can't help myself" in Came Back Haunted is a reference to Discipline.

And the left channel of "Eater of Dreams" seems like it might be saying "can't help myself."

minusthesnake
08-29-2013, 11:57 PM
The swell that starts in the left channel at 5:34 of "Disappointed" sounds like the one starting at 4:10 in "Only".

There's also a really faint part that kicks for a few seconds around 2:57 of "Satellite" that reminds me of something old school NIN, I think Pretty Hate Machine-era, but I can't find the part it reminds me of.

blassster
08-30-2013, 12:04 AM
I actually get a "Sunspots" vibe from "Various Methods."

Was about to post the same. I don't know what exactly it is. When the chorus kicks in, it immediately reminded me of life while listening to Sunspots in 2005. I will have to wipe the digital dust off of W_T sometime soon...

Broadbent
08-30-2013, 12:06 AM
He steals the "oh oh OH oh OOHHH!" from discipline and put it in the reworked version of sanctified. not on HM but still relevant.

happens at the 4:00 mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMXWKxah5zI

goingincirclez
08-30-2013, 12:23 AM
Well crap, I missed the very boat I christened in the main HM thread a couple days ago! Anyhow...

...the build and osciallation in Black Noise, as well as the key and tone of the (synth? guitar(s)?) that creep, is very reminiscent of the noise in Slipping Away (from Things Falling Apart). So my observation a few posts above this one might actually be somewhat more prescient: WISH/BN is a coded reference to once again slipping away.

And, as others have pointed out, the album can pick up and repeat almost seamlessly. So the protagonist truly slips into another spiral of sorts, made more terrifying by its relentlessly unending nature. It's really quite brilliant if you think about it.



Is it my imagination, or do the sound that opens "Eater of Dreams," the sound from the right channel, and the second (um) "oily hinge" noise make up something that resembles an outrageously crude skeleton of the "La Mer"/"Into the Void" melody? Obviously not the melody itself, but the beat and the extra emphasis that "hinge" noise makes would be on the first note.

If so, then holy shit.

If not, well, then at least I can point to the Everything from 2007 Forward Is Considered Probably Part of an ARG crowd and say, "At least what I said wasn't the most insane thing anyone on this board has ever suggested."


CURSES! I hear it now. Your observation hinges on the key word skeletal... so maybe I had to go looking (listening) for it to find it, but shit, it IS sorta there. And I don't think I did any drugs today, not intentionally anyhow.

So if this was intentionally done (and not the paranoid synapses relayed and misinterpreted by lunatic ears) that would, again, be fucking brilliant! TDS is well-known as a harrowing drama of a protagonist's fall into suicide. Trent has openly said he contemplated doing so more than once. One of those attempts - to drown himself in a secluded spot by the sea - became La Mer.

If the La Mer connection is tangible then we now "know" our TDS protagonist is awakening in a hospital after a failed attempt to drown himself.


(FWIW I also heard the muted voice in the left channel, but I am not sure if it is a voice or not. Oddly enough it sounds fluid. But there are two phrases that are repeated; first one and then another).

Sesquipedalism
08-30-2013, 01:11 AM
So if this was intentionally done (and not the paranoid synapses relayed and misinterpreted by lunatic ears) that would, again, be fucking brilliant! TDS is well-known as a harrowing drama of a protagonist's fall into suicide. Trent has openly said he contemplated doing so more than once. One of those attempts - to drown himself in a secluded spot by the sea - became La Mer.

If the La Mer connection is tangible then we now "know" our TDS protagonist is awakening in a hospital after a failed attempt to drown himself."

Whoa, whoa. I'm not going quite that far just yet—though it's certainly an intriguing reading, and would make "Came Back Haunted" a much more critical component of the LP. I'm just saying that, if I'm hearing what I'm hearing (and to hear it, you have to—I can't believe I'm about to say this without a shred of sarcasm—sort of listen to the notes/beats he's not playing as well), then that would be a lovely inclusion. The Spiral, motif shows up in, what, four songs? And the "La Mer" motif shows up in at least three (plus the cousins of "Slipping Away" and "Adrift & at Peace") Fragile tracks. I adore self-referentiality, when it's purposive and not gratuitous; when it's subtle, not jackhammered. Every artist's body of work is really one big picture, whether or not it's easy to see or any of us would like to admit it.

Since those are the most "personal" Nine Inch Nails albums, I would get the core bits reappearing here. Pretty Hate Machine, With Teeth, and The Slip didn't have recurring musical bits. But a number of Year Zero songs are linked in such a fashion ("Hyperpower!"—"The Good Soldier"—"Meet Your Master"; "My Violent Heart"—"God Given"—"Zero-Sum"). It might be cool to hear a callback to one of these connecting pieces, but I'm not expecting it, since that was arguably his least personal LP.



Though, given the fact it took me two years to notice that "Master" fit with the other two, I wouldn't be shocked if Trent was slipping things right by me.

fakdoo
08-30-2013, 07:30 PM
Pretty Hate Machine didn't have recurring musical bits.

*Puts on nerd glasses*
Actually, bits from Down In It reappear in the breakdown of Kinda I Want To.

As for Hesitation Mark references to past albums...
Sin: "I'm just an effigy to be disgraced"
VMOE: "An effigy so wondrous to behold"

elevenism
08-30-2013, 08:17 PM
i have to say, just, you know..its important that i say on ets on the new record thread that this new record is FUCKING DOPE.
I can't quite explain how....but it is.
and also All Time Low is Soooooo sick....and its the kind of thing that could ONLy be pulled uf by trent/bowie/manson...(seriously, no sarcasm)

Transfixed
08-30-2013, 10:52 PM
Ooh this is fun. Here's what I noticed...

Some of the tracks mirror TDS not only thematically and lyrically but also album-placement-wise.

2nd song on TDS - Piggy, ends abruptly on the line "Nothing can STOP-"
2nd song on HM - Came Back Haunted, ends abruptly on the line "Just can't STOP-"

3rd song on TDS - Heresy - "Your God is dead and no one cares"
3rd song on HM - Find My Way - "I'm just trying to find my way, oh dear lord hear my prayer"

Track 5 on TDS - Closer - Uses big, stomping "heartbeat" beat
Track 5 on HM - All Time Low - Uses an obvious, extremely similar throwback to 'Closer' beat!

From there, the references become more blurred and follow TDS less directly, but still ahve a lot of lyrical and thematic connections. But I thought these first few connections were pretty startling and I enjoyed noticing them very much.

elevenism
08-30-2013, 10:58 PM
oh goddamnit. i didn't see that this was the "spot the references" thread before posting....and i'm not gonna try to do it all but suffice it to say that they are EVERYWHERE.
Ok, i'll do one. Copy of A (and A LOT of the rest of the album) sounds like it was made with the same equipment as PHM.

Transfixed
08-30-2013, 11:00 PM
... Copy of A (and A LOT of the rest of the album) sounds like it was made with the same equipment as PHM.

Wait, what?

tw3rbz
08-30-2013, 11:03 PM
oh goddamnit. i didn't see that this was the "spot the references" thread before posting....and i'm not gonna try to do it all but suffice it to say that they are EVERYWHERE.
Ok, i'll do one. Copy of A (and A LOT of the rest of the album) sounds like it was made with the same equipment as PHM.
Gotta disagree.

exactlythesame
08-31-2013, 01:31 AM
I'll break this into references by song, I've been wanting to do this ever since the album leaked:

Copy of A - I haven't found anything particularly referential in this track besides mimicking some of the aesthetics we heard on The Slip. The sequenced bass notes seem vaguely similar to the intro to Heresy. The lyrical subject harkens back to Every Day Is Exactly the Same and, more directly, Echoplex, in that the subject feels trapped, repeating, and hopeless. His antagonists are keeping him in a place that he does not want to be.

Came Back Haunted - Musically, there is many syllogisms here to Ruiner and the latter half of I Do Not Want This. Syncopated electronic beats. Lyrically, I hear call backs to Getting Smaller, The Collector, and The Good Soldier. Following instructions from his captors, unhappily, and threatening to move against them.

Find My Way - The soundscape is similar to In This Twilight and Beside You In Time, being subtle, quiet, and progressively layered. The lyrics reflect the moods of these songs as well, expressing mostly understated resignation to the (unfortunate) state of things.

All Time Low - So much Into the Void and Where is Everybody? during the verses on this track, it's impossible to ignore! I hear some similarities in the lyrics to Vessel (piercing the skin, putting things inside). There's also the reference to passengers which could be referencing Into the Void again ("Talking to myself all the way to the station Pictures in my head of the final destination.")

Disappointed - Ghosts, anyone? Let's see if I can catch all of them. The closest ones we get are 03 Ghosts I, 18 Ghosts II, and 32 Ghosts IV, and the song is very similar in composition: taking one sequenced drum and bass beat and building upon it heavily with guitars and other instrumentation. We also see a motif that was common in The Slip (anyone who is versed in music theory will hear what I'm talking about readily): Vo - VI - VII+ - I or variations thereof. This gives a very dissonant sounding chromatic progression that you can hear on The Four of Us Are Dying, Demon Seed, and Echoplex, all of them occurring near the end of the song.

Everything - Well, musically there's not much to compare to within NIN's catalog! I believe there's already been some posts about it's lyrical content so I'll move on.

Satellite - There's tons of Year Zero, both in content and composition. Mostly the songs told from the Military Complex's point of view: The Good Soldier, God Given, Meet Your Master. We hear The Slip motif again, this time with a variation (I - Vo - VI - iii). Oh, and recognize that guitar tone in the outtro from The Big Come Down?

Going to take a break for now, I've been at this for a couple hours. Let me know if you guys want me to go on with the rest of the album! <3

icklekitty
08-31-2013, 07:01 AM
Ooh this is fun. Here's what I noticed...

Some of the tracks mirror TDS not only thematically and lyrically but also album-placement-wise.

2nd song on TDS - Piggy, ends abruptly on the line "Nothing can STOP-"
2nd song on HM - Came Back Haunted, ends abruptly on the line "Just can't STOP-"

3rd song on TDS - Heresy - "Your God is dead and no one cares"
3rd song on HM - Find My Way - "I'm just trying to find my way, oh dear lord hear my prayer"

Track 5 on TDS - Closer - Uses big, stomping "heartbeat" beat
Track 5 on HM - All Time Low - Uses an obvious, extremely similar throwback to 'Closer' beat!

From there, the references become more blurred and follow TDS less directly, but still ahve a lot of lyrical and thematic connections. But I thought these first few connections were pretty startling and I enjoyed noticing them very much.

Please go deeper into that. I feel like the whole album is someone holding up a warped mirror to TDS, but I'm all theory and no examples.

liquidcalm
08-31-2013, 07:31 AM
I don't *think* I saw anyone mention.. but that sample in the chorus and at the end of Running is totally the intro to Sin, at least in rhythm and tone

spitefulscorpio
08-31-2013, 12:03 PM
I don't *think* I saw anyone mention.. but that sample in the chorus and at the end of Running is totally the intro to Sin, at least in rhythm and tone

I definitely hear that! I just listened to HM from start to finish again but was doing other stuff so I couldn't take notes. Somebody else mentioned some Bowie stuff going on, I definitely hear that too. There is a part (I'll try to edit in a bit once kids are down for naps) that sounds like a direct obvious nod to Bowie. I love it.

jesus
08-31-2013, 12:56 PM
Find My Way: It looks as though they're here to stay
All the Love in the World: Looks as though the past is here to stay

A.Cash
08-31-2013, 02:19 PM
The same lyric is also featured in 'All Time Low'

A.Cash
08-31-2013, 02:20 PM
Find My Way: It looks as though they're here to stay
All the Love in the World: Looks as though the past is here to stay
The same lyric is also featured in 'All Time Low'

Broadbent
08-31-2013, 02:36 PM
The arpeggio at the end of all time low, is 99% a sample from final fantasy 3 for the super nintendo. I'm sure of it...

jesus
08-31-2013, 03:24 PM
The Big Come Down: There is no place I can go there is no way I can hide
Running: I'm running out of places I can hide from this I'm running out of ways to keep on hiding this

Shadaloo
08-31-2013, 04:28 PM
The end of the album really sticks out to me:

Third-to last on TDS: Reptile: Subject matter: Attempt at fulfilment via establishing a connection through meaningless sex with someone described as diseased and filthy.
Third-to-last on HM: I Would For You: Subject Matter: Attempt at fulfillment via establishing a connection through emotional openness and honesty, expressing a desire to be a better person for the sake of a partner.

Second-to-last on TDS: The Downward Spiral: Prevention of personal degredation through self-destruction; putting a hole through one's head.
Second-to-last on HM: In Two: Attempt at self-betterment through the integration of a pair of opposing personas; putting one's head in order. Also I'm pretty damn sure I can hear the cycling loop from TDS during the ''I Just Don't Know Anymore' buildup, overlaid with guitar, except that it's skipping rather than being cyclical.

Last on TDS: Hurt: Looking back on one's regrets stretching across a life that has ended.
Last on HM: While I'm Still Here and Black Noise: Appreciating what is available and vital in life as long as possible while alive and well.

Not to mention the numerous, numerous references to 'Finding a Way' throughout the album, echoing the last line of TDS...

exactlythesame
08-31-2013, 06:23 PM
Not to mention the numerous, numerous references to 'Finding a Way' throughout the album, echoing the last line of TDS...

This one is so obvious, I almost missed it. Brilliant.

elevenism
08-31-2013, 09:04 PM
Ok perhaps not the same equipment..what i mean is that it has the same old school, semi-minimalist, semi analog vibe of the late eighties/early nineties...some of the beats are reminiscent of echoplex. Some of the drum-kits remind me of pretty hate machine.
Does that make more sense?
It does to me. ;)
I am a bit intoxicated sometimes when i'm here.

elevenism
08-31-2013, 09:15 PM
The arpeggio at the end of all time low, is 99% a sample from final fantasy 3 for the super nintendo. I'm sure of it...
HA, i totally agree...i didn't think it was a sample though, but a VERY similar arpeggio.

joplinpicasso
08-31-2013, 11:56 PM
Anyone mention the actual melodic recurrence found on HM between "Find My Way" and "While I'm Still Here"?

Also, @exactlythesame (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=3692), please continue with your diagnosis!

redwingsrock
09-01-2013, 02:32 AM
Really surprised no one has mentioned this.

In Hurt the lyric: "You are someone else
I am still right here"

And the song "While Im Still Here"

To me, this represents two alternate ways of perceiving ones situation. In Hurt, it represents a sadness, yet acceptance. I dont like where i am, but this is who i am. In While Im Still Here, there is definitely a tone of appreciation and almost gratefulness for being in perhaps the same position, just with a different perspective.

Thats what i think at least.

MacabreMagpie
09-01-2013, 04:51 AM
Love this thread! I noticed the "wave goodbye" reference when Everything was first aired... well, more a case of it sticking out like a sore thumb than really "noticing" it, but the album sure is packed with nifty little nods here and there.

I don't think this really counts as a reference but as people have already made musical comparisons to Bowie and the like, I'll throw this in here: the chorus of "All Time Low" REALLY reminds me of The Orb, in particular side one of their "Metallic Spheres" album at around the 10:20 mark. So much so that I think it at least has to be an influence.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&amp;v=C9G0KokD6Eo#t=61 8

(I also mentioned this in my review so apologies for the repetition)

elevenism
09-01-2013, 10:14 AM
ok this is making sense to me now. when i look at what Shadaloo said, and what Transfixed said, i'm sold on the idea that HM is a kind of.., almost reverse...downward spiral.

Warped_Savant
09-01-2013, 01:40 PM
Sorry, but I can't find it now... Can anyone tell me which song could have it's lyrics interchanged with "Find My Way"?
(I think it was from With Teeth...)

jesus
09-01-2013, 02:53 PM
Sorry, but I can't find it now... Can anyone tell me which song could have it's lyrics interchanged with "Find My Way"?
(I think it was from With Teeth...)

All the Love in The World have one line

joplinpicasso
09-01-2013, 04:09 PM
I think Warped_Savant meant the vocal similarity to "Somewhat Damaged."

Warped_Savant
09-01-2013, 05:28 PM
I think @Warped_Savant (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1044) meant the vocal similarity to "Somewhat Damaged."
Yes! That was the one... thank you.

W.O.R.M
09-01-2013, 07:10 PM
I got bored, this is how I saw it. Strange how some of it actually did flow rather nicely

http://youtu.be/5Zi0vHbFMqw

jarj
09-01-2013, 08:06 PM
The vocal delivery of In Two is similar to March of the Pigs

ericy210
09-01-2013, 11:57 PM
Do you think these are actual references, or just the nature of the music genre and themes Trent regularly uses? Most bands have themes across CDs, partying, smoking chronic, life in the hood, etc. I don't think he consciously put in Easter eggs to link back to prior work

voighdt
09-02-2013, 12:33 AM
don't know if this has been pointed out yet, but "find my way" has some pretty obvious lyrical references to a few david bowie songs. whether this is intention or unintentional (as was the case with the whole "a warm place/crystal japan" similarities) i'm not sure. but i thought i'd point these out regardless:

"I can feel them come for me
It looks as thought they're here to stay" -from find my way

"All the strangers came today
And it looks as though they're here to stay" oh you pretty things! by david bowie

AND

"I have been to everyplace
I have been to everywhere" - from find my way

"I've lived all over the world
I've left every place" be my wife by david bowie

okay, well maybe the second one isnt as on point or obvious as the first. but those lines did remind me of 'be my wife' anyhow. and 'be my wife' shares the same kind of longing tone that 'find my way' does lyric-wise. those are the only references i could spot off hand though. aside from 'disappointed' sounding kind of like 'idoteque' by radiohead and of course the final fantasy VII title screen music near the end of 'all time low', which a few people have already mentioned, and might be VERY unintentional as well, but it's pretty funny regardless. if anyone isn't familiar with the FFVII title screen theme: listen to this http://youtu.be/ZF8YsrJIIjk and then listen to from 4:20 on of 'all time low' and tell me that the same damn thing isn't buried in the mix? almost to the point where i'm thinkin' a PS with final fantasy VII in it got accidentally turned on when they were recording the song and they decided to keep it in. haha XD

pinkfloid
09-03-2013, 12:18 AM
never got around to playing FF7 but now maybe I will :p

r_k_f
09-03-2013, 12:10 PM
the beat in Running sounds similar to the beat in the beginning of Soft Cell's original version of Memorabilia...

Indefinite_Cure
09-03-2013, 12:45 PM
The musical break down of Disappointed has the bass line of The Frail / The Fragile's chorus
The musical break down of Came Back Haunted uses the same synth that was used in the NIN version of I'm Afraid of Americans and Happiness in Slavery (you can clearly hear it at the 4:20 mark)
The guitar melody of Came Back Haunted at the end is reminiscent (to say the least) of the TDS motif
I'm sure the similarity of Find My Way and Even Deeper has been mentioned (plus the fact that the melody of the verses is similar to the verses of Somewhat Damaged)
The "acoustic guitar" of Satellite very reminiscent of the one used in Ripe (with decay)
The whole Satellite song is very Year Zero-ish
I know I've heard the synth used for the chorus in Running before...I'm thinking Broken-Fixed era maybe?
This has been said before but the intro of In Two is not only similar the the Gave Up intro, but it's only a semi-tone lower (and those synths go a semi-tone up from time to time)
The ticking time is running out in While I'm Still Here...a reference to The Warning? And the Sax at the end? Trent acknowledging the importance of the Purest Feeling demos to his career?

Anyway, here's my thoughts on this subject. But I find it rather boring to listen to it in this fashion, I just immerse myself into it and enjoy every minute of it. It sounds fresh and new as it is and I love it!

donveynor
09-03-2013, 03:55 PM
Does anyone else hear a Bowie sample in "All Time Low"? I can't exactly place it, but something in the bass line?

spitefulscorpio
09-03-2013, 04:40 PM
Does anyone else hear a Bowie sample in "All Time Low"? I can't exactly place it, but something in the bass line?

Is it Fame?

GavinCollins420
09-03-2013, 08:07 PM
Since those are the most "personal" Nine Inch Nails albums, I would get the core bits reappearing here. Pretty Hate Machine, With Teeth, and The Slip didn't have recurring musical bits. But a number of Year Zero songs are linked in such a fashion ("Hyperpower!"—"The Good Soldier"—"Meet Your Master"; "My Violent Heart"—"God Given"—"Zero-Sum"). It might be cool to hear a callback to one of these connecting pieces, but I'm not expecting it, since that was arguably his least personal LP.

Though, given the fact it took me two years to notice that "Master" fit with the other two, I wouldn't be shocked if Trent was slipping things right by me.

Sorry to go off topic, but please elaborate on these recurring YZ bits. I've never noticed/read about them and am pretty intrigued.

Also, the noise at the end of In Two at 5:20 is very reminiscent of the 'noise solo' in the live version of Head Down.

tiempo
09-03-2013, 08:32 PM
Do you think these are actual references, or just the nature of the music genre and themes Trent regularly uses? Most bands have themes across CDs, partying, smoking chronic, life in the hood, etc. I don't think he consciously put in Easter eggs to link back to prior work

I feel a little of both. Scoring - GWTDT in particular, I think added some really awesome tools to the songwriting pallet. Having Atticus help with a lot of the production duties I am sure allows him more freedom than he's ever had to explore songwriting and mess with motifs. Also TR knows that we will all read in to all sorts of stuff - I remember all of the Year Zero ARG. He obviously likes to have a bit of fun with us which is why I think a lot of current references are intentional.

seasonsinthesky
09-03-2013, 08:43 PM
Do you think these are actual references, or just the nature of the music genre and themes Trent regularly uses? Most bands have themes across CDs, partying, smoking chronic, life in the hood, etc. I don't think he consciously put in Easter eggs to link back to prior work

the vast majority of this topic so far as been, exactly, the "nature of the music genre and themes Trent regularly uses." this topic is to point out those bits of music and words to which TR intended to refer back, not to identify the long list of tropes recurring all over NIN songs since 1992 or whatever.

there are only a couple mentioned that are truly referential in ways that seem like they could be intentional, such as the evocation of "Somewhat Damaged" vocal melody and "I Do Not Want This" lyrics in "Find My Way" and the tease of the TDS motif at the end of "Came Back Haunted."

GavinCollins420
09-03-2013, 08:45 PM
Don't know if it has been mentioned already, but I can hear what sounds like the sound at the start of TDS' title track throughout Find My Way.

Sesquipedalism
09-03-2013, 09:53 PM
Sorry to go off topic, but please elaborate on these recurring YZ bits. I've never noticed/read about them and am pretty intrigued.

"My Violent Heart," "God Given," and "Zero-Sum" all share a percussion track, but it's at different speeds in each. "Zero-Sum" is the slowest; "God Given" is the fastest.

"Hyperpower!," "The Good Soldier," and "Meet Your Master" all share a similar percussion track, but here it's not only less exact, it's also at different speeds in each. It's pretty easy to catch the close similarity between "Hyperpower!" and "Soldier"; it's more difficult to catch the connection in "Meet Your Master," but check out (I think) the interview with Ilan from the 2009 tour where he plays "Demon Seed" in the studio. If I recall correctly, that's also the one with some on-stage footage in which you can hear him play part of it live, and it's much more evident when a physical drumkit is involved.

danzo_rezno
09-04-2013, 02:16 PM
Dunno if it was mentioned but I hear a similarity in the guitar melody at the very end of Came Back Haunted, sounds a lot like the closer (piano)/tds (guitar) melody :)

nineismine
09-04-2013, 04:07 PM
In Two Starts with a very similar sound to we're in this together about 19 seconds in and at the end of the song I hear a whiny sort of sound that also reminds me of WITT.

Bachy
09-06-2013, 09:18 PM
Not really a reference, but when I was singing along to "Various Methods of Escape" earlier today, after the second chorus, I found myself going "You let me do this to you." I just thought it was interesting that my brain would make that connection.

Volband
09-06-2013, 09:32 PM
The ticking time is running out in While I'm Still Here...a reference to The Warning? And the Sax at the end? Trent acknowledging the importance of the Purest Feeling demos to his career?

Not only it's funny, but actually a good parody of many interpretation attempts that happened in the past.

sordid
09-12-2013, 03:43 AM
The background voice (or noise) in "find my way" at 0:26 reminds me of the beginning of "head like a hole".

Prettybrokenspiral
10-03-2013, 06:51 AM
The chorus of All Time Low has some obvious lyrical allusions to past NIN songs:

"So give me just a little, baby...just something to get by."

Sin: "And if I can't have everything, well then just give me a taste."

"I will follow right behind you, baby...we're never gonna die."

And pretty much the entire chorus to We're In This Together.

i see what you did there, Trent Reznor! :eek:

utterben
10-03-2013, 07:36 AM
The low-end synth in the chorus of In Two is pretty similar to the low-end synth in Deep.

Findus
10-03-2013, 02:49 PM
I hear a bit of LCD Soundsystem in Copy of A, particularly from 3:36 to 3:43.

henryeatscereal
10-03-2013, 03:16 PM
I consider "All time Low" a reference to Queens of the Stone Age, the song can translate into a QUOTSA track easily...