Controversial Nine Inch Nails opinions

[pinata89]

oooh. saying that there are a lot of remixes of Mr. Self Destruct on FDTS? very controversial. careful with that opinion or you might get banned. ;) sorry, just joking. just doesn't sound very controversial.

personally, i don't exactly mind having a lot of similar remixes, but i won't exactly choose to listen to something like the HLAH single over and over. *but* i totally did do that when i was in high school. :D

EDIT: I just listened to Part One, Part Two, and Final in a row. Actually, I feel like there's definitely enough variety to make it worth listening to. I don't know about Part Three, though. Not really sure why it was included instead of Part Two.

Sorry it wasn't controversial enough...:(

I never said I didn't like the remixes...I really like them quite a great deal, actually. I've been in the air all day for work and Further Down the Spiral is all I've listened to...awesome album. And I agree, Things Falling Apart has a lot of less likable "Starfuckers, Inc." remixes. I guess I'm just impartial to The Fragile era, so those remixes are more interesting to me.

[Krazy]

Regarding "Everything" played live in recent posts: give it the "hard rock" treatment ala WT (drums instead of shit generic beat like tony pointed out already with HM, etc.) and it might be a decent tune in concert, and maybe have had Robin do his own thing with the guitar parts along with Trent having his "angry voice" at the beginning rather than barking it out and his voice crack right away from a note he can't hit.

Just my opinion, but the song broken down isn't horrible- was just executed/produced poorly/whatever in the studio and ended up in the middle of HM making fans think "WTF is this?"

[sheepdean]

I think fans who refer to releases by Halo number rather than title are being deliberately elitist dicks (not aimed at anyone in this forum) (yet)

[BenAkenobi]

You're lucky, trust me. Halo this, halo that is nothing compared to reading nin album titles spelled in another language! Спиралька, Фрагила, Госты...

[implanted_microchip]

The Sam Fog vs. Carlos D mix of Everyday Is Exactly the Same makes the original look poor in comparison. The El-P mix of Only from the same single does the same, too. But seriously, that Everyday remix is absolutely stunning.

[Throw_it_away9]

Regarding "Everything" played live in recent posts: give it the "hard rock" treatment ala WT (drums instead of shit generic beat like tony pointed out already with HM, etc.) and it might be a decent tune in concert, and maybe have had Robin do his own thing with the guitar parts along with Trent having his "angry voice" at the beginning rather than barking it out and his voice crack right away from a note he can't hit.

Just my opinion, but the song broken down isn't horrible- was just executed/produced poorly/whatever in the studio and ended up in the middle of HM making fans think "WTF is this?"

Agreed! Everything live has potential! Not that I ever think it's going to happen. Que sera, sera.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

I think fans who refer to releases by Halo number rather than title are being deliberately elitist dicks (not aimed at anyone in this forum) (yet)
There are people who do that? :eek:


But seriously, that Everyday remix is absolutely stunning.
Realizing I still haven't heard that one. YouTube to the rescue …

Eh. The vocal manipulations are a bit much.

[Halo Infinity]

i didnt realize how "thick" and "deep" HM was until i listened to it really loud on a good car stereo.
you might try that.
Oh, I thought you said this in the Random NIN Thoughts thread. Anyway, yeah, I certainly had a lot more pleasure listening to Hesitation Marks on better headphones this time around. I'm not a headphone expert by any means, but it sounds pretty sweet on Sades. "Thick" and "deep" is right. :D

http://sades.us/

[Halo Infinity]

The Sam Fog vs. Carlos D mix of Everyday Is Exactly the Same makes the original look poor in comparison. The El-P mix of Only from the same single does the same, too. But seriously, that Everyday remix is absolutely stunning.
In that case, I thought you'd love this. :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31jenMJ0UOc

[Jon]

Not specifically Nine Inch Nails, but related nonetheless.

I have been of the opinion for quite a while now that the Quake Soundtrack was done by not only Trent Reznor, but Peter Christopherson as well.

[seasonsinthesky]

I have been of the opinion for quite a while now that the Quake Soundtrack was done by not only Trent Reznor, but Peter Christopherson as well.

so TR made music with one of his heroes/influences/friends and didn't credit him? just felt like being a dick?

actually more like: it takes Sleazy to push TR into making incredibly dark ambient music? ("Corona Radiata," among others, would have words with thee.)

[Jon]

so TR made music with one of his heroes/influences/friends and didn't credit him? just felt like being a dick?

actually more like: it takes Sleazy to push TR into making incredibly dark ambient music? ("Corona Radiata," among others, would have words with thee.)

Whoa there, hold on. No malicious intent was intended.

Peter Christopherson may have been simply lumped in with the "Nine Inch Nails" portion of the Quake credits. Perhaps Sleazy didn't want to be credited directly. I don't know, and I don't want you to think I take this as fact—just a feeling.

I find the second part of that to be offensive to TR and myself. Corona Radiata has been my favorite song on The Slip since my first full listen. TGWTDT is my favorite piece of work since The Fragile. TR has absolutely no problems putting on his big boy pants and making some unsettling, even beautiful, dark music.

Again, I never meant to imply there was anything "screwy" going on.

[sheepdean]

PC was never in NIN, his only major NIN contribution was the Broken Movie, for which he got the credit, why on Earth would he not get it for Quake? And what makes you think that anyway?

Also, there's the fact this is in the game credits:
Titles of songs or themes (C) 1996 TVT/Interscope Records.
Written by Trent Reznor (C) 1996 Leaving Hope/TVT Music. ASCAP
Special thanks to Trent Reznor and Nine Inch Nails for sound effects and music.

Sleazy wasn't signed to either, he was BMI iirc, not ASCAP. And his name wasn't spelt "R-E-Z-N-O-R"


Is this the new Josh Wink. Because I hope so.

[GlitchyFlame]

Welcome Oblivion > HM > The Slip

[Halo Infinity]

This question sort of feels like it's a bit controversial for me to ask, but did anybody else feel like Nine Inch Nails could've toured until winter of 1996 after The Downward Spiral came out and until winter of 2001 after The Fragile came out?

(And considering how there wasn't as much going on between The Fragile and With Teeth, it seems like that tour could've easily gone until late 2002, or mid to late 2003. However, I could also see how Trent's struggles and problems outside of music could've also interfered and prevented that from ever happening since even he admitted that his mind was on anything but music just right after he finished touring for The Fragile in mid 2000.)

I understand if it was just impossible considering what has happened behind the scenes and all, but looking back, it sort of looked feasible at the time. I'm also guessing that's why it's possible that there was a run from 2005-2009 to make up for lost time. (Not that being the only reason, as albums were put out at a much faster than usual, but I could see that being one of them.)

[WorzelG]

Welcome Oblivion > HM > The Slip
I'd just rearrange the first two, HM > Welcome Oblivion > The Slip, although I love them all (although the Slip has most filler or songs I don't care for)

[WorzelG]

This question sort of feels like it's a bit controversial for me to ask, but did anybody else feel like Nine Inch Nails could've toured until winter of 1996 after The Downward Spiral came out and until winter of 2001 after The Fragile came out?

(And considering how there wasn't as much going on between The Fragile and With Teeth, it seems like that tour could've easily gone until late 2002, or mid to late 2003. However, I could also see how Trent's struggles and problems outside of music could've also interfered and prevented that from ever happening since even he admitted that his mind was on anything but music just right after he finished touring for The Fragile in mid 2000.)

I understand if it was just impossible considering what has happened behind the scenes and all, but looking back, it sort of looked feasible at the time. I'm also guessing that's why it's possible that there was a run from 2005-2009 to make up for lost time. (Not that being the only reason, as albums were put out at a much faster than usual, but I could see that being one of them.)
Eh? That would mean touring for a full 3 years for The Downward Spiral wouldn't it which would have been crazy? And considering he overdosed and pulled out of a London show I was due to go to (The Lost Weekend) in 2000 I was very surprised he actually played a few European festivals after that.

Anyway I think the making up for lost time is more about not doing enough albums, I think a year of touring is as much as any band needs to do, before going back into the studio and recording new material

[Exocet]

Quake soundtrack does sound like Coil, sounds a lot like coils later ambient work. in 1995 when Trent was recording Quake , Jhonn and Peter were living with Trent in New Orleans working on what would become The New Backwards (which didnt get released till 2008). they may have had minor input or influence.

[Halo Infinity]

Eh? That would mean touring for a full 3 years for The Downward Spiral wouldn't it which would have been crazy?
It would seem to be almost 3 years by at least a 3 to 4 month difference.


And considering he overdosed and pulled out of a London show I was due to go to (The Lost Weekend) in 2000 I was very surprised he actually played a few European festivals after that.
That's what I've also figured, which also helped me understand why that tour seemed to be the shortest tour he ever did.


Anyway I think the making up for lost time is more about not doing enough albums, I think a year of touring is as much as any band needs to do, before going back into the studio and recording new material
I must've been mistaken then, as I thought that tours lasted around 2-3 years if the gaps between albums were around the 4+ years mark. I've also thought about that as well.

[icklekitty]

This question sort of feels like it's a bit controversial for me to ask, but did anybody else feel like Nine Inch Nails could've toured until winter of 1996 after The Downward Spiral came out and until winter of 2001 after The Fragile came out?

(And considering how there wasn't as much going on between The Fragile and With Teeth, it seems like that tour could've easily gone until late 2002, or mid to late 2003. However, I could also see how Trent's struggles and problems outside of music could've also interfered and prevented that from ever happening since even he admitted that his mind was on anything but music just right after he finished touring for The Fragile in mid 2000.)

I understand if it was just impossible considering what has happened behind the scenes and all, but looking back, it sort of looked feasible at the time. I'm also guessing that's why it's possible that there was a run from 2005-2009 to make up for lost time. (Not that being the only reason, as albums were put out at a much faster than usual, but I could see that being one of them.)

Because drugs and alcohol and falling out with everyone like a moody little bitch.

[Halo Infinity]

I've also figured, but also meant in the case that such a thing didn't happen as a means for the sake of speculation and imagination. That probably could've also changed the overall decision process, development, sound and direction of Nine Inch Nails as well.

[howdidislipinto]

Seeing Demon Seed live would be way cooler than seeing The Perfect Drug, Last, or WITT live.

This also applies to All The Love In The World, which I missed, dammit.

[Throw_it_away9]

Seeing Demon Seed live would be way cooler than seeing The Perfect Drug, Last, or WITT live.

This also applies to All The Love In The World, which I missed, dammit.

Demon Seed live! Will this ever happen!?! God I hope so.

I don't know if I'd say it'd be better than TPD or WITT, but I sure as shit would love to see it!

[BRoswell]

Seeing Demon Seed live would be way cooler than seeing The Perfect Drug, Last, or WITT live.

Speaking of The Perfect Drug, here's my latest opinion:

I'd rather hear Driver Down played live than The Perfect Drug.

[eversonpoe]

Speaking of The Perfect Drug, here's my latest opinion:

I'd rather hear Driver Down played live than The Perfect Drug.

fuck yes. especially if trent actually plays the sax part. that song is SO GOOD.

[The_Prowler]

If we're talking about songs we'd like to hear live more than other songs, I'd have to put his version of Zoo Station damn near the top of my list.

[implanted_microchip]

I actually don't want And All That Could Have Been played live at a typical NIN show because I can already see myself standing there trying to be blown away as I watch dozens of people file out to go piss, get beer, etc., hear people talk over the verses nonstop and the audience in general ruining the experience for me.

I've been fairly worried about a Still style tour, honestly, because I can see a lot of people going to see it, not realizing that's what it's like, then complaining or booing that there's no HLAH, Wish, Closer, etc. and in general being little fuckheads. As much as I really want to see something like that, I really don't want to deal with it being tarnished by that kind of audience. They'd have to really be specific in marketing the tour.

[BRoswell]

I've been fairly worried about a Still style tour, honestly, because I can see a lot of people going to see it, not realizing that's what it's like, then complaining or booing that there's no HLAH, Wish, Closer, etc. and in general being little fuckheads. As much as I really want to see something like that, I really don't want to deal with it being tarnished by that kind of audience. They'd have to really be specific in marketing the tour.

That's why, if Trent should decide to undertake such a tour, it shouldn't be in the typical venues that would normally host a Nine Inch Nails show. No stadiums. No amphitheaters. MAYBE a couple clubs where it'll be received better. Basically it should stick to venues that are used to seeing orchestras, string quartets, and solo piano players. That's how you'll weed out a good portion of those fans who will bitch about a show like that.

[Krazy]

It would best be done in small theater-style venues. (Pabst Theatre here in Milwaukee comes to mind- Google it)

And honestly I don't even want that type of "tour" (just my opinion, don't shoot me). I wouldn't be one of the jackasses talking loud or whatever but can imagine it being incredibly boring. Golf claps and crickets.

[howdidislipinto]

I actually don't want And All That Could Have Been played live at a typical NIN show because I can already see myself standing there trying to be blown away as I watch dozens of people file out to go piss, get beer, etc., hear people talk over the verses nonstop and the audience in general ruining the experience for me.

I've been fairly worried about a Still style tour, honestly, because I can see a lot of people going to see it, not realizing that's what it's like, then complaining or booing that there's no HLAH, Wish, Closer, etc. and in general being little fuckheads. As much as I really want to see something like that, I really don't want to deal with it being tarnished by that kind of audience. They'd have to really be specific in marketing the tour.

I adore the acoustic side of NIN, but I'm actually inclined to agree... while I love special, one-off acoustic things like the CRC sessions or Bridge School, I don't think a tour in that style would be fun.

What WOULD be fun is if live NIN became more like HTDA live, or like the first two radio performances during the With Teeth tour, instead of just the basic rock band format it's been since the beginning. I think older songs are awesome in that style (like Head Like A Hole in the radio sessions, or the Warm Leatherette cover) AND new songs obviously beg to be performed that way anyway (like Copy Of A in the non-live-drum versions over the last year). That's the live NIN I wanna see.

[Ryan]

Sometimes I go to play The Slip, then I realize that only really Lights In The Sky onwards interests me, then I don't listen to it.

[Ryan]

I adore the acoustic side of NIN, but I'm actually inclined to agree... while I love special, one-off acoustic things like the CRC sessions or Bridge School, I don't think a tour in that style would be fun.

As opposed to what?! Of course it would be fucking fun!!!

[howdidislipinto]

As opposed to what?! Of course it would be fucking fun!!!

I didn't even think I was going controversial with that, haha. It just feels like the venues he's done the acoustic thing so far (one off performances, EPs) are the exact perfect way to get those things out there. Do I want more? Absolutely. A tour? ...I dunno. I love Bridge School and I love the revamped songs on Still, but I'm WAY more excited by the way he revamped HLAH in that radio session with Peter Murphy, or the revamped Sanctified we've been enjoying this last year.

Look how in his element Trent seems in the Warm Leatherette video (Atticus, too!). I want THAT tour before I want the TR & piano tour.

[SarahConnor]

A tour in this manner wouldn't cross the U.S.
Its doubtful it'd even play in Chicago.

[The_Prowler]

I would absolutely go to a show or two on a tour like that if it ever happened.

[Dan Drone]

I love NIN and all. My 3rd, 4th or 2nd favorite band (can't decide) and all... I enjoyed HM (less than a year ago- now that the hype is gone. 7.5 or 8 / 10 )

So here we go-

Not counting Ghosts.. NIN hasn't really put out anything AMAZING (IMO) since The Fragile (my favorite) the Still CD. Year Zero is closest album that I consider very good and not just *good*.

I hope Trent experiments more for the future album. He should use more instruments and fuck around with non-traditional song structure.

The Slip was didn't hold my attention. Least favorite album.

What was up with that PBS thing? I did not watch it, but the idea seems funny.

I hate that NIN has become the Metallica of mainstream industrial rock.

Hurt is overrated, NIN has better songs in that vein.

[sheepdean]

What was up with that PBS thing? I did not watch it, but the idea seems funny
Maybe watch things before you judge them

[BRoswell]

I hate that NIN has become the Metallica of mainstream industrial rock.

Explain please.

[m15a]

What groups are "mainstream industrial rock"?

[Vertigo]

Lady Gaga and Carly Rae Jepson.

[billpulsipher]

I love NIN and all. My 3rd, 4th or 2nd favorite band (can't decide) and all... I enjoyed HM (less than a year ago- now that the hype is gone. 7.5 or 8 / 10 )

So here we go-

Not counting Ghosts.. NIN hasn't really put out anything AMAZING (IMO) since The Fragile (my favorite) the Still CD. Year Zero is closest album that I consider very good and not just *good*.

I hope Trent experiments more for the future album. He should use more instruments and fuck around with non-traditional song structure.

The Slip was didn't hold my attention. Least favorite album.

What was up with that PBS thing? I did not watch it, but the idea seems funny.

I hate that NIN has become the Metallica of mainstream industrial rock.

Hurt is overrated, NIN has better songs in that vein.

mainstream industrial rock are bands like Orgy, Stabbing Westward, Manson and Static X....poser hot topic shit who's fans never heard of Ministry or Skinny Puppy. I wouldnt call NIN mainstream industrial, altho when he plays shit like the Grammys or goes on tour with bands like QOTSA and Soundgarden, he does seem to be catering to mainstream rock in general a lot more these days

Hurt IS overrated. Something I Can Never Have shits all over it

the PBS thing was lame as fuck, so you are right on that.

HM is a lot worse than Slip. At least Slip has some aggro songs unlike HM which is TR mumbling the whole time or doing disco funk songs. plus 'lights in the sky' is one of the best slow songs he has ever done.

and you are right that he hasnt done anything "amazing' since Fragile/Still era......most bands 10 plus years into their career dont put anything amazing out....

[Sarah K]

What is "the PBS thing"? ACL?!

ACL was fucking incredible! If you haven't watched that, you're really missing out on a treat!

[BRoswell]

...unlike HM which is TR mumbling the whole time or doing disco funk songs...

I'm glad you finally admitted to never having listened to the album. :p

[Khrz]

mainstream industrial rock are bands like Orgy, Stabbing Westward, Manson and Static X.....

All dead. Apart from Manson, who hasn't made anything remotely "Industrial Rock" since EMDM. If NIN has become the Metallica of Industrial Rock, first of all it means I really underrate Metallica, and secondly it means there still are Industrial Rock bands around... As far as I know, they all have moved to EDM-rock.
Not to mention that at this point, if NIN is Industrial Rock, then Radiohead is Brit-Pop...

[Dan Drone]

*I know NIN are beyond "Industrial rock" but it's what they're known for. NIN is pretty much the gateway/ambassador.



Maybe watch things before you judge them

Maybe one day, anything make it stand out from any other NIN 2013-recent show?


Explain please.

NIN is cool to like the same way Metallica are. NIN has become "OMG liked" by more people than ever now.

For example: My vest has like 15-18 bands and on it- and NIN gets the most compliments.


What groups are "mainstream industrial rock"?

Mainstream industrial doesn't mean bad or even straight up industrial. But generally bands who got recognized and make catchy rock/metal songs with industrial elements/influences. Bands like NIN, Filter, White/Rob Zombie, Rammstein, Stabbing Westward, Ministry, Marilyn Manson... ect even though NIN, Rammstein and Rob Zombie are generally more accepted/ok to like than Manson is.


mainstream industrial rock are bands like Orgy, Stabbing Westward, Manson and Static X....poser hot topic shit who's fans never heard of Ministry or Skinny Puppy. I wouldnt call NIN mainstream industrial, altho when he plays shit like the Grammys or goes on tour with bands like QOTSA and Soundgarden, he does seem to be catering to mainstream rock in general a lot more these days

I like a good number of bands and to me those bands range from awesome to good- none bad in my opinion (even if Orgy only have 2 good albums and I stopped caring about Static-X after Machine.. but they weren't too bad) I like Ministry. I love Skinny Puppy who are probably my 3rd or 2nd favorite band behind or after NIN with Manson being my #1 favorite band for 15 years. But I still think NIN are more "mainstream" than Manson because they're more acceptable. More liked by people. It's not a bad thing, it's just what it is.


Hurt IS overrated. Something I Can Never Have shits all over it

And All That Could Have Been and The Great Below are 10x better than Hurt.



HM is a lot worse than Slip. At least Slip has some aggro songs unlike HM which is TR mumbling the whole time or doing disco funk songs. plus 'lights in the sky' is one of the best slow songs he has ever done.

HM had some interesting stuff that made me want to listen to it over 5 times in the first day. Probably heard it every day that week. The Slip I heard a few times, thought it was okay and that was it. I should listen to it again though, it's been years since I heard the Slip as a whole.

[Krazy]

Weird. Been listening to MM since his earliest days and never thought of him or the band as "industrial".

[Dan Drone]

Weird. Been listening to MM since his earliest days and never thought of him or the band as "industrial".

His band always had that influence, but it was never really prominent enough to be fully considered that. But casual people/media refer to that band as "shock rock" or "industrial shock rockers" for the most part.

[Krazy]

His band always had that influence, but it was never really prominent enough to be fully considered that. But casual people/media refer to that band as "shock rock" or "industrial shock rockers" for the most part.


Yeah, after I posted that I wasn't even sure what to categorize MM after thinking. There's some industrial in there at times. There's even some nu metal I guess. In the end his voice and image is so distinct it kind of comes down to "goth" rock or something I suppose, like you stated.

[Dan Drone]

Yeah, after I posted that I wasn't even sure what to categorize MM after thinking. There's some industrial in there at times. There's even some nu metal I guess. In the end his voice and image is so distinct it kind of comes down to "goth" rock or something I suppose, like you stated.


Well generally it's hard rock or alternative hard rock with glam, classic rock, industrial, post-punk, death rock, metal, goth and other musical influences. I do like how "Glamdustrial" or (lately) "Bluesdustrial" sounds though ;)

[BenAkenobi]

It's either very awesome :o or very terrible :mad: how nin fans constantly have trouble defining the genre.

[The_Prowler]

It's either very awesome :o or very terrible :mad: how nin fans constantly have trouble defining the genre.
If someone asks me what Nine Inch Nails sounds like, I have to lead in with "it depends what album we're talking about." But "Industrial Rock and Roll mixed with a little Trance" is a fairly decent, if understated and overly simplified, overall description if you're in a bind.

[Halo Infinity]

I've often found myself saying Nine Inch Nails is industrial rock, industrial metal and alternative rock, but sometimes simplify it down to calling it a combination of rock and pop depending on who I'm speaking to, especially if they don't really listen to rock music, and which albums and songs I'm referring to. It's also hard for me not to do that whenever I'm discussing Pretty Hate Machine, The Fragile, With Teeth and Hesitation Marks.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

I find myself describing the feel of it: angry, abrasive, corrosive.

[The_Prowler]

When someone brings up the little point that he writes "depressing, sad and angry music", I've started chiming in with something along the lines of "yes, he writes about really harsh topics like anger, depression, addiction, abandonment and the like, but it's not just about 'woe is me', it's also about survival. He's dealt with all of these things, but he's overcome every single one of them, and his music reflects that. If he has a song about addiction on an earlier album, he'll have another song about beating it on a later one."

I don't try to make someone like music that they obviously don't, I just try and help them respect and understand why I like it. Even if I hate a band, I try to give respect where it's due. Unless it's something like Brokencyde or Justin Bieber, in which case respect is impossible :p

Case in point: I was hanging out with my guitar player and a couple of his friends one night, and we were talking about music. One of them got pissy and left the room when Country was brought up (he's very closed minded and childish about things he doesn't like), but the other guy and I sat there talking for a long time about it. He's a major Country fan, and I'm not. I'm into lots of bands that he doesn't like. But we sat there talking about why we like the bands we like (the feel of the song, lyric content and flow, voice, etc...) and playing favorite examples from our favorite groups and analyzing it for each other. He showed me some Country songs that aren't the typical "cars and beer and girls in cowboy boots with American flag tramp stamps" type that you hear on the radio, and I have to say that some of the lyrics really were amazingly written. Then I played some Rock songs (Nine Inch Nails was featured heavily, of course), and got him to listen to the words and what they meant. We both had healthy "holy shit" moments of realization, and we each left with a newfound respect for each other's music. We still don't like what each other listens to, but we can respect and understand each other's tastes and not bitch about them.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

Unexpectedly getting my hands on AVOTT in 1080p was a perfect excuse to watch it again.

I find it remarkable how creatively risky the Ghosts segment was. It's really the closest thing to a Bridge School/Still tour we've seen, and here it is in the middle of a show that's also our first live exposure to The Slip and even (for the US) YZ — three wildly different versions of NIN. And Ghosts Piggy as the cherry on top. :)

And then that gets me thinking about the risks taken with Tension. It's kind of a dumb thing for me to say — seeing how I was totally oblivious for the previous 19 years — but 2008–14 seems like the best time to be a NIN fan ever.

[GlitchyFlame]

Trent has just gone down hill personally. Manson seems to be doing more interesting things as of late.

2007-Present Manson > 2007-Present Trent
This is going to get me some major shit.

This is where I went full retard. I shall never go full retard again.

[GlitchyFlame]

The Only El-P remix and EDIETS remix (I won't even bother trying to remember who made it) are the only remixes on the EDIETS single worth a shit. In fact, they're just as good as the originals.

YZ Remixed is also the worst remix album IMO. The only tracks I enjoyed were the Modwheelmood mix of TGD and Warning mix.

TFA would be the strongest remix album if the Starfuckers versions weren't included and The New Flesh and the La Mer and Even Deeper mixes were in their place.

[Halo Infinity]

This is where I went full retard. I shall never go full retard again.
Thank goodness that Nine Inch Nails is perfect music regarding coping and recovery from going there. I've also been there quite a bit as well, so I can definitely relate. I just felt like getting that out there. ;)

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

"Rain, rain, go away" sounds way cooler when it's Robin doing his Axl Rose voice.

[GlitchyFlame]

HM's lyrics are just as stupid as PHM's.

[BRoswell]

HM's lyrics are just as stupid as PHM's.

There's nothing as unintentionally hilarious as "Now I'm slipping on the tears you made me cry." on Hesitation Marks, so I respectfully disagree.

Since we're on the topic, Trent has never been a great lyricist in my opinion. He's had his moments, but to me, it's the raw emotion that Trent brings to the lyrics through his vocals as well as the production that surrounds them that make them work, not the lyrics themselves.

[GulDukat]

There's nothing as unintentionally hilarious as "Now I'm slipping on the tears you made me cry." on Hesitation Marks, so I respectfully disagree.

Since we're on the topic, Trent has never been a great lyricist in my opinion. He's had his moments, but to me, it's the raw emotion that Trent brings to the lyrics through his vocals as well as the production that surrounds them that make them work, not the lyrics themselves.
Trent may never be hailed as a great lyricist (I.e. Dylan), but he's someone that you can really relate to, so I like his lyrics, as is.

[pinata89]

There's nothing as unintentionally hilarious as "Now I'm slipping on the tears you made me cry." on Hesitation Marks, so I respectfully disagree.

Since we're on the topic, Trent has never been a great lyricist in my opinion. He's had his moments, but to me, it's the raw emotion that Trent brings to the lyrics through his vocals as well as the production that surrounds them that make them work, not the lyrics themselves.

Exactly. Agree, whole-heartedly. TR's vocals have always been so honest in terms of tone and emotion, you can't help but try to find meaning, inspiration and feeling in the lyrics....and it works, for whatever reason. TR does a good job selling it (especially with early NIN).

[Krazy]

There's nothing as unintentionally hilarious as "Now I'm slipping on the tears you made me cry." on Hesitation Marks, so I respectfully disagree.

Since we're on the topic, Trent has never been a great lyricist in my opinion. He's had his moments, but to me, it's the raw emotion that Trent brings to the lyrics through his vocals as well as the production that surrounds them that make them work, not the lyrics themselves.

I'll disagree, on both accounts, but specifically the HM comment. Just listen to All Time Low for how far Trent reaches to rhyme. And in Running he has to say that word at least 100 times.

EDIT: I've probably contradicted myself but what I meant is there's both hits and misses. He's got some great lyrics in a lot of songs IMHO.

[Ryan]

There's nothing as unintentionally hilarious as "Now I'm slipping on the tears you made me cry

I've always liked that line, never found it corny tbh.

[Ryan]

I'll disagree, on both accounts, but specifically the HM comment. Just listen to All Time Low for how far Trent reaches to rhyme. And in Running he has to say that word at least 100 times.

EDIT: I've probably contradicted myself but what I meant is there's both hits and misses. He's got some great lyrics in a lot of songs IMHO.

He wrote Running just because of the RunNINg part.

[Krazy]

He wrote Running just because of the RunNINg part.

How does one pronounce a backwards N? "Neh"?

"ruhn-in-ehing" ???

Also on the topic of HM there's Copy of a's Fight Club rip off and CBHau-hau-haunted (hopefully needs no explanation).

[BRoswell]

I've always liked that line, never found it corny tbh.

Just imagine Trent from The Perfect Drug slipping and falling into a big puddle of his own tears and you'll see what I mean. :p

[AMBFCHD]

Don't know how controversial this is, but look-wise, long dreadlocks Trent is the best Trent.

[Halo Infinity]

That look and the look he had for The Perfect Drug seem to be the least liked looks from what I've noticed.

[implanted_microchip]

That look and the look he had for The Perfect Drug seem to be the least liked looks from what I've noticed.

People who'd say TPD is the least liked are forgetting this:

http://img2-1.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/050422/132853__nin_l.jpg

[sheepdean]

That look and the look he had for The Perfect Drug seem to be the least liked looks from what I've noticed.
TPD Trent looks awesome

[Halo Infinity]

Agreed. I sometimes imagined what it would've been like if he toured The Fragile with that look. I also liked how he joked about his hair when he received an ASCAP Golden Note Award. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkMZ49m6A5Q

[Krazy]

NO!!! TPD he's got that 16th century (or whatever years) pedo-stache going on...

https://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3mpe6anDG1qh55mao1_500.jpg


Maybe the worst though is early W_T era emo doo. Looks like he smelled a fart in this pic...

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m5fDkb2FmfY/hqdefault.jpg

[GlitchyFlame]

I just listened to the Bowler remix of While I'm Still Here on a great pair of speakers and, WOW. I am blown away. This is the best official remix in years.

I would say that it's as good as the original.

[Ryan]

People who'd say TPD is the least liked is forgetting this:

http://img2-1.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/050422/132853__nin_l.jpg

lol, that image lasted for like 5 minutes then he turned into The Hulk. What happened there?!

[Vertigo]

In keeping with the inescapable truth that every NIN fan has a different set of opinions, I think Emo Trent is one of the better Trents, and Count Trentula is the worst.

[Krazy]

lol, that image lasted for like 5 minutes then he turned into The Hulk. What happened there?!

Seriously. Every time I see those pics I think of TF era, think sheepdean let me know they are in fact from circa 2005

[sheepdean]

I don't think he juiced, but I think he may have eaten his own body weight in protein powder at some point between WT and YZ

[m15a]

That look and the look he had for The Perfect Drug seem to be the least liked looks from what I've noticed.
Wasn't the TPD look a joke? I thought it was just part of the music video parody/homage style.

[AMBFCHD]

Speaking of the look, I think he looks the worst during the TPD era, for example this photo https://40.media.tumblr.com/0bd2505c761cc3ff47b9e05a93f94670/tumblr_mvbbp1hVvk1sx2zfgo1_500.jpg . His face + hair seriously look like those of an alcoholic or a junkie... thank God he's who he is now.

[BenAkenobi]

Separate topic for Trent's looks, maybe?

(proposing for selfish reason - so I can never visit it and avoid feeling super weird lol)

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

I'll disagree, on both accounts, but specifically the HM comment. Just listen to All Time Low for how far Trent reaches to rhyme.
I'm sure that was deliberate — the song is sarcastic as hell and he's singing that way for effect. I know some people hate on Capital G for the same reason, but I see these songs as a small window into his sense of humor.


HEY EVERYTHING IS NOT O-KAY

[Vic]

TPD Trent looks awesome

Agreed. The first pics of Trent that I ever saw were some of these:

http://justplainunhollywood.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/trent_reznor_011.jpg
http://maggiebear.com/bandgallery01/group029.jpg
http://maggiebear.com/bandgallery01/group002.jpg
http://maggiebear.com/bandgallery01/group006.jpg
http://maggiebear.com/bandgallery01/group046.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__b1mVfU2UqQ/TQ62DJMTfXI/AAAAAAAAAOk/F2p9H-CWcz8/s640/Trent%252BReznor.jpg
http://paulspageofpain.com/ninphoto/tpdtrent.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/3/4061404_c40551beb9.jpg
http://starity.hu/images/celebs/years/11377/800x600/1997.jpg
http://www.amoeba.com/admin/uploads/blog/Kelly/Trentgoth.jpg

And I thought that he always had that look and that he looked pretty great tbh, after a while (I had no access to the internet, just to some rock magazines) I learnt that this look was just for the TPD's era, but it has always been among my favorites for TR.

[SM Rollinger]

Google search "Trent Reznor Zorro"
:)

[Charmingly Miserable]

Speaking of the look, I think he looks the worst during the TPD era, for example this photo https://40.media.tumblr.com/0bd2505c761cc3ff47b9e05a93f94670/tumblr_mvbbp1hVvk1sx2zfgo1_500.jpg . His face + hair seriously look like those of an alcoholic or a junkie... thank God he's who he is now.
I agree. I am not a fan of the TPD era look. To me, he looks like the creepy uncle that you have invite your family functions.

[Pillfred]

That photo is kind of creepy but I thought he pulled it off well in the video.

[SM Rollinger]

That photo is kind of creepy but I thought he pulled it off well in the video.
This one? lolz I might have to change my avatar again
http://paulspageofpain.com/ninphoto/tpdtrent.jpg

[L'Acephale]

I really hope the next NIN album is good. It pains me to see how ridiculed Trent's become in certain circles.

[sheepdean]

I really hope the next NIN album is good. It pains me to see how ridiculed Trent's become in certain circles.
...is that controversial? Are most people saying "I hope it's fucking shit"

[L'Acephale]

...is that controversial? Are most people saying "I hope it's fucking shit"

Plenty of fans wouldn't mind if it sounded like Hesitation Marks...

[implanted_microchip]

Having not seen any recent billpulsipher posts, it's nice to see that someone will always fill that void.

[L'Acephale]

Ah.

I wonder if Trent can survive his insulated, no-critical-feedback-required period?

[WorzelG]

Ah.

I wonder if Trent can survive his insulated, no-critical-feedback-required period?
So you're not going to comment on people's reaction to your stupid opinion that Trent 'caused' Al Jourgenson to relapse then?

[L'Acephale]

So you're not going to comment on people's reaction to your stupid opinion that Trent 'caused' Al Jourgenson to relapse then?

Sure will.

Al was clean, then he began hanging around Trent again, for the sake of a bad side-project. All of Al's ex-roadies blame Trent for Al's relapse.

... You were saying?

[WorzelG]

Sure will.

Al was clean, then he began hanging around Trent again, for the sake of a bad side-project. All of Al's ex-roadies blame Trent for Al's relapse.

... You were saying?
You said you weren't old enough to even know nineties bands, dark side of the spoon was 99, what did someone whisper this in your ear when you were in your pram!

[L'Acephale]

Sure, I'm not some faggoth who was dancing to "Closer" when Kaycee Kasum was spinning it regularly. And I'm not a coke-bottle-glassed devotee of neo-NIN.

I like good music.

What's your point?

[WorzelG]

Sure, I'm not some faggoth who was dancing to "Closer" when Kaycee Kasum was spinning it regularly. And I'm not a coke-bottle-glassed devotee of neo-NIN.

I like good music.

What's your point?
I was asking where you got all that info about Al's relapse then you start going on about fag goths whatever that is, to deflect.

[L'Acephale]

Two different ex-Ministry roadies, both of whom claimed at separate times, and without prompting, that Poppy Trent gave Uncle Al his first taste in over a year rounabout 2000.

That's all you get. I'm not about to open myself up to a lawsuit from Trent fucking Reznor.

[WorzelG]

Two different ex-Ministry roadies, both of whom claimed at separate times, and without prompting, that Poppy Trent gave Uncle Al his first taste in over a year rounabout 2000.

That's all you get. I'm not about to open myself up to a lawsuit from Trent fucking Reznor.
Why don't you go and respond to vic in the Marilyn Manson thread who gave quite a heartfelt response to your posts?

[L'Acephale]

Someone doesn't like the fact that Marilyn Manson still has fans after Poppy Trent has been declared the be-all, end-all of 90s industrial (or 'alternative' altogether - as if Billy Corgan has not always been better than Poppy Trent).

By the way, Kris? Why don't.you just stop posting at PM?

[WorzelG]

Someone doesn't like the fact that Marilyn Manson still has fans after Poppy Trent has been declared the be-all, end-all of 90s industrial (or 'alternative' altogether - as if Billy Corgan has not always been better than Poppy Trent).

By the way, Kris? Why don't.you just stop posting at PM?
You're just so transparent in your attempts to rile people up, it just ceases to have any riling effect. There have always been crossover Manson / NIN fans. Billy corgan is better than NIN - ooh, burn, who gives a fuck? Plenty of people here love the Smashing Pumpkins, and I've always hated the idea of music being this big competitive thing, I think music should bring people together

[Halo Infinity]

By the way, Kris? Why don't.you just stop posting at PM?
Because I'm still a fan of Marilyn Manson, and Vic actually gave you a really good response. I thought it was a good read, and I also happened to agree with it and see where Vic was coming from. I might take some breaks from Provider Module though, but I don't know about leaving altogether just yet, or even here for that matter.

http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/1516-Marilyn-Manson?p=233434#post233434

[L'Acephale]

No, if I have a flag to carry, it's Ministry.

My list is like this:

1. Ministry
2. Marilyn Manson
3. Skinny Puppy

...

4. The Spooky Kids
5. Smashing Pumpkins
6. NIN

[L'Acephale]

No, Kris, that is a bad - because apologetic - response.

Manson hardly mentions Trent in The Long Hard Road Out Of Hell outside of the production of ACSS, save to say that Trent stopped returning his calls. If that hurt Trent's rock star ego, boo hoo, maybe he ought to be more responsible.

As for the rest, Trent wanted the follow-up to ACSS to be heavy industrial rock. Manson - and Corgan, and the Dust Brothers, and every other party involved - disagreed. For fuck's sake, when I talked to Steve Albini, he though Manson was a poseur and a rip-off, but "the best thhing he ever did was get away from Trent".

NOBODY likes Reznor. And there are reasons why.

[implanted_microchip]

No, Kris, that is a bad - because apologetic - response.

Manson hardly mentions Trent in The Long Hard Road Out Of Hell outside of the production of ACSS, save to say that Trent stopped returning his calls. If that hurt Trent's rock star ego, boo hoo, maybe he ought to be more responsible.

As for the rest, Trent wanted the follow-up to ACSS to be heavy industrial rock. Manson - and Corgan, and the Dust Brothers, and every other party involved - disagreed. For fuck's sake, when I talked to Steve Albini, he though Manson was a poseur and a rip-off, but "the best thhing he ever did was get away from Trent".

NOBODY likes Reznor. And there are reasons why.
You keep fixating on a time where Trent is the first to admit that he was an alcoholic, addict and in a pretty awful state of mind. From his getting clean on he's pretty much widely loved by those he's worked with and has made amends with plenty of old coworkers; Chris Vrenna, Richard Patrick, Robin Finck, Charlie Clouser, Danny Lohner, etc. He's continued working with Alan Moulder, and has seemed to really befriend those he works with now. You're talking about a guy who doesn't exist anymore, and it's absurd to judge someone roughly 20 years later and no longer under the influence of hardcore addictions. You seem so set on painting Trent in a bad light and shit-talking NIN, I've not seen one positive post that wasn't somehow backhanded. Why are you even on here? You won't change anyone's mind about Trent Reznor, and believe it or not a lot of people who are members of the most popular NIN forum are, gosh, fans of NIN.

[L'Acephale]

Basically, I'm on here because I'm a Manson fan, and I'm a Manson fan because I adore Ministry, whether they be synthpop or thrash at any given moment. I also like The Sisters Of Mercy, and Abecedarians, and Triomie 21, and a hundrend other dark-n-spooky bands that existed before Nine Inch Nails were s twinkle in Big Poppa Pump's eye.

Kinda hard to avoid, in that situation, like the ancient fundamentalist Christian uncle at Thanksgiving.

Basically, I don't love NIN, but it'd be nice for the NINies to admit that (A) Trent Reznor is not a latter-day Mozart, and (B) Trent Reznor is closer, so to speak, to a modern Goblin than to a modern Tangerine Dream insofar as his scoring is concerned.

It is the collective egotism I loathe.

[implanted_microchip]

Then stay away from a site devoted to being a NIN fan? I hate most Manson fans, so I avoid Provider Module like a bad case of herpes. If you know you dislike NIN fans and NIN itself then why waste your time making yourself upset?

[L'Acephale]

Nah. There's no bug spray to keep you folks away, so I don't know why I ought to keep my distance.

Did you know Trent sucked rod in a telephone booth on The Fragility 2.0 tour in Philly?

[L'Acephale]

By the way, we all know Marilyn Manson sucks (And lol, Trent both simultaneously created and had nothing to do with him, somehow). But did you know Mariqueen Magabella Abzug is amazing, and no nepotism at all was involved in the making of How To Destroy Angels? That's how they headlined Coachella on the strength of a demo.

[sheepdean]

There's many bands who got their big break purely because of members (Foo Fighters anyone?). Doesn't mean HTDA aren't awesome. Also this isn't the HTDA forum.

[Krazy]

That's how they headlined Coachella on the strength of a demo.

Playing Coachella does not mean they headlined it.

I think high school classes resume this Monday- should give you something to do rather than troll the internet.

[BRoswell]

Playing Coachella does not mean they headlined it.

Not to mention that they had released more than just a "demo" at that point.

[SM Rollinger]

... Big Poppa Pump's eye.

Hey dont bring Scott Steiner into this!

http://www.actiontoys.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/WCWGUS-10.JPG

[BenAkenobi]

Nah. There's no bug spray
to keep you folks away,
so I don't know why
I ought to keep my
distance.

Did you know
Trent sucked rod
in a telephone booth
on The Fragility 2.0 tour
in Philly?

I noticed it rhymes. Potential lyrics for a song?

[The_Prowler]

I like the stadium tour version of Copy Of A with the full band and acoustic drums better than the more electronic way they did it at the festivals and the 2014 summer tour.

Also, I really liked the bigger lineup with the backup singers.

[Jinsai]

it'd be nice for the NINies to admit that (A) Trent Reznor is not a latter-day Mozart, and (B) Trent Reznor is closer, so to speak, to a modern Goblin than to a modern Tangerine Dream insofar as his scoring is concerned.

(A) Trent Reznor is not a modern day Mozart. Happy?

(B) I like Goblin's soundtracks more than Tangerine Dream's soundtrack work. I like both groups, for the most part, but Suspira, Dawn of the Dead, and Profondo Rosso > Legend and Risky Business... What the fuck is it that you're trying to even say?


Did you know Trent sucked rod in a telephone booth on The Fragility 2.0 tour in Philly?

Did you know Marilyn Manson was Paul from The Wonder Years, and that he once removed his ribs so he could fellate himself on stage?

[sheepdean]

Mozart was an awful lyricist, I'm glad Trent is nothing like Mozart

[Vic]

I really hope the next NIN album is good. It pains me to see how ridiculed Trent's become in certain circles.
If by "in certain circles" you mean teenage MM's fans who can't accept that TR is not pretending to be the same person he was in the 90s... He is one of the most respected musicians in the world, deal with it.


Sure will.

Al was clean, then he began hanging around Trent again, for the sake of a bad side-project. All of Al's ex-roadies blame Trent for Al's relapse.

... You were saying?

Two different ex-Ministry roadies, both of whom claimed at separate times, and without prompting, that Poppy Trent gave Uncle Al his first taste in over a year rounabout 2000.

That's all you get. I'm not about to open myself up to a lawsuit from Trent fucking Reznor.
Do you have a single proof of any of this?

Afaik, in the late 90s Trent was a couple of years in the studio recording "The Fragile", then he went on tour for another couple of years and then he went to rehab, he was never in touch with Al, they probably have not seen each other since the early 90s, they have never been in "a bad side project" together in the 2000s, the side project with Trent that Al has recently talked about was just a joke he made last year, he also said he was in a side projetc with Kanye West, when Trent was asked about said projects he said that he has not seen Al in many many years, and I have rock magazines from the late 90s with interviews where Al was asked about Trent and he laughed and said that he had not seen Trent since he became famous and his manager (Malm Jr) apparently adviced him "to hang out with hollywood stars and not with scum like Jourgensen".

However, Trent has recently appeared in a Ministry documentary ("Fix") praising Al and company despite all the jokes and shit that Al has talked about Trent for so many years (in the same interview from 99 where he said that he had not seen Trent in years, he said that Trent shat his pants when they made him a prank onstage with fireworks, it seems that Trent got pissed, although he made the same kind of pranks with the Marilyn Manson's guys a few years later when MM opened for NIN in the Selfdestruct Tour, and there is also a video on youtube where Al laughs with a friend saying that Trent is the most depressing guy to have ever existed and that he should play russian roulette with Morissey or something like that).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gshzSZjFfWI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cr1ppbxhNE

I don't see how Trent could be such a piece of shit to Al and then Al or his people would ask Trent to be in their documentary, I also don't see Al in the previous video talking about how Trent was a son of a bitch who caused his relapse and abandoned him. And like I said in my message in the Manson thread, Trent is not Manson's or Jourgensen's mom, they both are grown ups, if Trent quits drugs and alcohol, he can't force these two guys to do the same, much lesss when they have not seen each others in so many years, if Trent told them to go to rehab they would probably laugh in his face.

I'm seeing you spreading this kind of bullshit in the PM forums and here, those are some serious accusations to make without a proof and without the proper knowledge about NIN's, MM's and Ministry's history, if you don't want to be sued by Trent F. Reznor, maybe you should be more careful with the kind of statements you make in public forums full of fans of those bands.

Maybe you could post here where you have read those comments by ex-Ministry's roadies and then Trent could sue them instead of you if what they say is not true.

Finally, since we are talking about musicians ruining other musicians' lives, do you know what I've read? I have read THE SAME FUCKING STORY but with Al Jourguensen himself saying that he was the one that gave heroine to Layne Staley, you know, the Alice In Chains singer that died because of his heroin addiction:

http://www.alternativenation.net/ministry-singer-talks-introducing-layne-staley-to-heroin-needles-says-he-did-it-for-the-glamour/

[Vic]

No, Kris, that is a bad - because apologetic - response.

Manson hardly mentions Trent in The Long Hard Road Out Of Hell outside of the production of ACSS, save to say that Trent stopped returning his calls. If that hurt Trent's rock star ego, boo hoo, maybe he ought to be more responsible.
That's not true, I own the book since I bought it when it was released, and what I said in my message from the MM's thread is the truth, and Trent himself said that he was pissed for what Manson said in the book and in his interviews.


As for the rest, Trent wanted the follow-up to ACSS to be heavy industrial rock.
That's also not true like I also said in my MM's thread message, otherwise post PROOF of Trent wanting to do ACSS 2.0. Manson didn't want to work with Trent again because of what I said in my message, I've been following both bands since the mid 90s and I've read almost every possible interview that they both have done, I remember the "Fragile" era interviews where Trent talked about how he felt disappointed by Manson's behavior even if he had made some mistakes too, and I certainly remember Manson's interviews talking shit about Trent, Nothing and NIN while Trent was in the studio recording "The Fragile" and had not mentioned Manson in an interview in years.

[zeegrizzle]

http://i1265.photobucket.com/albums/jj519/Zmgaar/ScreenShot2015-01-04at70009PM_zps9279a709.png (http://s1265.photobucket.com/user/Zmgaar/media/ScreenShot2015-01-04at70009PM_zps9279a709.png.html)

Let's just look at Madonna and her big red backwards "N"

[sheepdean]

Let's just look at Madonna and her big red backwards "N"
NIN were not the first to use the backwards N. Hell, even if you don't count the dozens of other bands, I think the Russians might have been there first

[BenAkenobi]

Just a friendly reminder: Cyrillic И does not read as Latin N, it's a vowel equivalent to I (as in inch), more here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_(Cyrillic)

[r_z]

The Slip is the most cohesive album since at least TDS while at the same time avoiding its bloatedness and naivity. It destills everything I like about NIN: Daring production, textures, noise, energy, anger, beauty, fragility (no pun inte...). All the while its concept isn't on some "forced explanation / awkward narrative for the press" type trip. That Trent hasn't had the time / avoided to "polish" the thing may have been a good thing, since it stopped the album from becoming over-thought and bloated like most of the others.

A decent punch to the gut all around. And therefore I think it's the best in the catalogue.

Now bring it on.

[Khrz]

Just a friendly reminder: Cyrillic И does not read as Latin N, it's a vowel equivalent to I (as in inch), more here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_(Cyrillic)

We thought we were the Heralds who chant NIИ, instead we are the Knights who say NII...

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

We thought we were the Heralds who chant NIИ, instead we are the Knights who say NII...
Now I want a NII tattoo.

http://i.imgur.com/qka490p.png

[BenAkenobi]

That was absolutely not what I meant, I did not hint at how you guys should pronounce it or make a new nin logo out of :)
But whatever, after how nin themselves butchered their logo on recent releases, I ain't gonna stop you. Go full Russian!
http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii574/benakenobi/nin_zpsf86223ae.jpg

[nooneimportant]

Basically, I'm on here because I'm a Manson fan

Basically, I don't love NIN.

Wow. You're not very good at this whole Internet thing, are you?

[The_Prowler]

There's many bands who got their big break purely because of members (Foo Fighters anyone?).
Foo Fighters actually had to work their asses off to get to where they are today. Remember, they were playing dingy clubs and bars for a hundred people or less most nights on their first tour and weren't able to actually headline a show of their own until around their third album. Being Dave Grohl helped to a certain extent in the sense that it was easier to get a record deal, but it was far from the only thing that got them started.

No disrespect intended towards you at all, but people saying "Foo Fighters are only famous because Dave Grohl was in Nirvana" just isn't fair. Also note that I fully understand that that's not literally what you said or probably even exactly what you meant.

[tony.parente]

I'd rather have a million Purest Feelings over another Hesitation Marks.
Also in the same vein

Hesitation Marks is Trents Eat Me, Drink Me.

EDIT: Fuck HM was bad.
EDIT EDIT: And goddamn that tour...that whole tour was so bad.

[WorzelG]

I'd rather have a million Purest Feelings over another Hesitation Marks.
Also in the same vein

Hesitation Marks is Trents Eat Me, Drink Me.

EDIT: Fuck HM was bad.
EDIT EDIT: And goddamn that tour...that whole tour was so bad.
I thought it was great, what tour? Tension?
Hesitation Marks bought my sister back into the NIN fold, which she'd left after not liking the Slip or Ghosts very much. And the London show solidified it, it was great.
Also I'm not a Manson fan so comparisons are useless, not heard eat me drink me, or indeed any Manson album all the way through.

[tony.parente]

I thought it was great, what tour? Tension?
All of them, every leg.
Seriously, what the shit man.

I tried keeping positive as I could during that specific leg, but jesus christ Pino? The backup singers? The lights in the sky pt 2 setup?

My god.

EDIT: And the sg/nin setlist? Seriously, 10 albums to choose from and possibly the worst tracks in his catalog were played exclusively. I still get mad thinking of that sloppy diarrhea of a set.

[WorzelG]

All of them, every leg.
Seriously, what the shit man.

I tried keeping positive as I could during that specific leg, but jesus christ Pino? The backup singers? The lights in the sky pt 2 setup?

My god.

EDIT: And the sg/nin setlist? Seriously, 10 albums to choose from and possibly the worst tracks in his catalog were played exclusively. I still get mad thinking of that sloppy diarrhea of a set.
Watching while I'm still here / black noise on the ACL performance was literally shivers down the spine good, I don't know what your problem is, honestly, your taste just plain sucks in this respect

[BRoswell]

The hyperbole is strong in here.

[tony.parente]

Watching while I'm still here / black noise on the ACL performance was literally shivers down the spine good, I don't know what your problem is, honestly, your taste just plain sucks in this respect
I just think he's better than the touring cycle for that album is all. Hell even the merch was cringeworthy.
BRoswell I'm being serious, I think half my total facepalms came from the tour thread last year.

[slave2thewage]

Hesitation Marks is Trents Eat Me, Drink Me.

Aren't you the resident defender of "Eat Me, Drink Me" around here?

[tony.parente]

Aren't you the resident defender of "Eat Me, Drink Me" around here?

Bad analogy for me personally, I was just comparing it to the general manson fanbases opinion that EMDM is his worst album.

[Khrz]

Hesitation Marks is Trents Eat Me, Drink Me.

Alright, I'm intrigued now, I'll bite. In what regards ?

Edit : oh, well that was quick and simple... Disappointing.

[Demogorgon]

Tony likes to argue for the sake of arguing. But, since this is the "controversial" opinion thread, I suppose it really doesn't matter. The tour for Hesitation Marks was great, and the backup singers were awesome. Maybe you, Bill, and that whiny dude with the L' can invent a time machine and go watch all your favorite tours forever and forget everything else even exists.

[tony.parente]

Tony likes to argue for the sake of arguing. But, since this is the "controversial" opinion thread, I suppose it really doesn't matter. The tour for Hesitation Marks was great, and the backup singers were awesome. Maybe you, Bill, and that whiny dude with the L' can invent a time machine and go watch all your favorite tours forever and forget everything else even exists.
HM and its tour cycle have been the only real thing I've been critical about in regards to Trent and NIN. I may have given the gone girl soundtrack a little flack but overal I'm very positive towards nin.

[GulDukat]

Mozart was an awful lyricist, I'm glad Trent is nothing like Mozart
IDK--that "Lick my asshole" song is pretty rad. Yes, Mozart actually wrote that.Google it if you don't believe me.

[Khrz]

IDK--that "Lick my asshole" song is pretty rad. Yes, Mozart actually wrote that.Google it if you don't believe me.

I thought it actually meant "kiss my ass" ? Anyway that makes Mozart more of a precursor to Bloodhound Gang...

[sheepdean]

IDK--that "Lick my asshole" song is pretty rad. Yes, Mozart actually wrote that.Google it if you don't believe me.
That's exactly what I was referencing lol

[howdidislipinto]

Watching someone who isn't funny try to be Bill makes me appreciate Bill more.

[GulDukat]

I thought it actually meant "kiss my ass" ? Anyway that makes Mozart more of a precursor to Bloodhound Gang...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C78HBp-Youk
Lick my ass nicely,
lick it nice and clean,
nice and clean, lick my ass.
That's a greasy desire,
nicely buttered,
like the licking of roast meat, my daily activity.
Three will lick more than two,
come on, just try it,
and lick, lick, lick.
Everybody lick their ass for themselves.

[tony.parente]

Watching someone who isn't funny try to be Bill makes me appreciate Bill more.
I feel like I was an asshole here before bill was even signed up. But I wasn't trying to be funny I was just blowing steam in the only appropriate place here is all. I LOVED LITS, it was amazing and the merch was INCREDIBLE, try getting a 1,000,000 jacket or the messenger bag without spending fortune now.

[billpulsipher]

I cant compare NINs worst album to Mansons worst album because I thought Manson died 15 years ago....Shocked he's still around. I dated a few hot topic goth girls the last couple years and he's still their lord and savior, so as long as hot topic mall goths exist, MM should have a career....I saw a youtube video of him playing a show recently and he was falling over himself drunk/coked out and rambling into a mic and forgetting the lyrics to his own songs and his voice was destroyed.

[GulDukat]

Manson's slump/downfall has been overstated, IMHO. His last two before TPE weren't great, but weren't awful either. Haven't listened to TPE but it's getting some very good reviews. There has never been a bad, or even sub-par NIN, IMHO.

[WorzelG]

I saw a youtube video of him playing a show recently and he was falling over himself drunk/coked out and rambling into a mic and forgetting the lyrics to his own songs and his voice was destroyed.
To be fair, that was Trent in Japan in 2000, although without the voice destroyed bit

[sheepdean]

That was absolutely not what I meant, I did not hint at how you guys should pronounce it or make a new nin logo out of :)
But whatever, after how nin themselves butchered their logo on recent releases, I ain't gonna stop you. Go full Russian!
http://i1260.photobucket.com/albums/ii574/benakenobi/nin_zpsf86223ae.jpg

I legit think you should send that to Rob to be used in future Russian NIN merch

[elevenism]

Can i just say again that i love EVERY nin album?

Also, someone explain to me what was so awful about the slip? i still think it's fucking great.

[WorzelG]

Can i just say again that i love EVERY nin album?

Also, someone explain to me what was so awful about the slip? i still think it's fucking great.
It's just Letting You and 1,000,000 I'm not keen on, I think the rest is great

[elevenism]

It's just Letting You and 1,000,000 I'm not keen on, I think the rest is great

See, those two get me especially fired up.

1,000,000 was such a great opener for LITS.

I understand that there isn't much point in arguing about something as subjective as musical opinions, but i just never understood the disdain for the slip.

[Sarah K]

1,000,000 on the album is okay. But Ilan fucking KILLS that shit live, and it's awesome.

[tony.parente]

1,000,000 on the album is okay. But Ilan fucking KILLS that shit live, and it's awesome.


1,000,000 is 10/10. Easily the best track since the collector.

[billpulsipher]

To be fair, that was Trent in Japan in 2000, although without the voice destroyed bit

lol good point...although those NIN 2000 shows still had insane energy


as for Slip...I look at it as more of an EP to tide people over for the next tour/Robin rejoining the band...as an EP its solid enough...as an album...not so much

[sheepdean]

lol good point...although those NIN 2000 shows still had insane energy


as for Slip...I look at it as more of an EP to tide people over for the next tour/Robin rejoining the band...as an EP its solid enough...as an album...not so much
"Performed by Trent Reznor, Josh Freese, Robin Finck and Alessandro Cortini"

[Microwave Jellyfish]

1,000,000 on the album is okay. But Ilan fucking KILLS that shit live, and it's awesome.
It was one of the best live songs while Robin was allowed to actually play it on a guitar. An audio rip of the rehearsal video was my most played NIN track circa 2010-2011.

[BRoswell]

I think the only track that I'm not crazy about on The Slip is Corona Radiata, and that's only because it's too long for what it is. I've been meaning to make a three-to-four minute edit of it at some point just for my own satisfaction.

[Halo Infinity]

See, those two get me especially fired up.

1,000,000 was such a great opener for LITS.

I understand that there isn't much point in arguing about something as subjective as musical opinions, but i just never understood the disdain for the slip.
Even though I can somewhat understand some of the disappointment directed at The Slip, I thought that it was actually perfect for anybody that loved With Teeth. I also try to keep reminding myself that The Slip as an album was like a picture that was a sketch as opposed to a full-fledged painting. I remember reading about The Slip and Ghosts I-IV being described that way by even Trent Reznor himself, if I'm not mistaken.

[elevenism]

as for Slip...I look at it as more of an EP to tide people over for the next tour/Robin rejoining the band...as an EP its solid enough...as an album...not so much

i agree.
it isn't exactly "fleshed out" and it goes in a couple of different directions.

what i REALLY love on it is the beginning up through echoplex.

and it definitely worked well with the tour...we had all been listening to this new, free ep, and they come out and play the first four tracks off of it and blew the fucking roof off the place before they even really "turned the lights on."

[botley]

The Slip & Ghosts I–IV were supposed to be experimental in lots of different ways; I think they got plenty more things right than wrong with The Slip. I love stuff like "The Four of Us Are Dying", which is catchier and more interesting than most of the tracks on Ghosts.

[Halo Infinity]

Can i just say again that i love EVERY nin album?

Also, someone explain to me what was so awful about the slip? i still think it's fucking great. @Leviathant (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1) @kleiner352 (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=4417) @sheepdean (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=350) - I thought that this post would've been perfect for all the three of you to like. ;)

Then again, this post doesn't seem to be controversial at all. After all, this is the place to love NIN of all eras and kinds. :p

[elevenism]

I love stuff like "The Four of Us Are Dying", which is catchier and more interesting than most of the tracks on Ghosts.

It really is.
I love the NIN meets Boards of Canada aesthetic.

[fillow]

"Performed by Trent Reznor, Josh Freese, Robin Finck and Alessandro Cortini"
This credit is really weird because Alessandro has gone on record saying he didn't play a note on it and was just hanging around. As for Josh and Robin, they probably had a couple of songs each, hardly the whole album.

[sheepdean]

This credit is really weird because Alessandro has gone on record saying he didn't play a note on it and was just hanging around. As for Josh and Robin, they probably had a couple of songs each, hardly the whole album.
Well I imagine that was counting the live DVD and all live instrumentation.

And hey, Ally performed the hand.

[elevenism]

tony.parente makes me laff quite a bit. sheepdean too.

[kel]

the slip is the tits. and the price was good, too.

[Khrz]

God how I hated the whole "price is right" tale every review was giving... Each time I wondered if the reviewer had actually listened to the album, or had just thrown a bunch of number in Excel and made a chart comparing their interest in the music multiplied by Reznor's past fame and substracted the price they paid for the record. "Yep, the number's good enough, great record dude, loving that whole "not having to pay shit" sound you got going there !"

[kel]

okay. but it's a good record.

[Khrz]

Yeah it wasn't so much a reaction to your post than a reminiscence brought by it, really...

[Krazy]

Can't beat free no matter how you slice it. Some of the best meals you get are the free ones.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

and it definitely worked well with the tour...we had all been listening to this new, free ep, and they come out and play the first four tracks off of it and blew the fucking roof off the place before they even really "turned the lights on."
Yes! I was watching AVOTT recently and I was surprised to see so much of The Slip right up front. Trent obviously had a lot of confidence in the "free cereal box NIN album." It's weird I never noticed that until now.

I get the feeling 1,000,000 says a lot about the way he sees himself these days, or else he wouldn't keep going back to it again and again. Yes it's a great first/second song to open a show, but I don't think that's the only explanation.

Also, Discipline destroys Only. I hope he brings it back someday. :(

[sheepdean]

I believe The Slip would work end to end live better than any album, so I'd love to see that

[fillow]

God how I hated the whole "price is right" tale every review was giving... Each time I wondered if the reviewer had actually listened to the album, or had just thrown a bunch of number in Excel and made a chart comparing their interest in the music multiplied by Reznor's past fame and substracted the price they paid for the record. "Yep, the number's good enough, great record dude, loving that whole "not having to pay shit" sound you got going there !"
It's a given that reviews cover 30% actual music and 70% circumstances of the recording. Trent Reznor is alive and sober! (With Teeth); ZOMG TEH ARG! (Year Zero); See how many different formats an album can be released with no major label! (Ghosts) See how many different formats an album can be released with no major label! PART DEUX (The Slip) See how inspired Trent is by his marriage/HTDA/soundtracks! (HM)

[BenAkenobi]

I enjoyed Year zero without ARG, just for the songs, because they're GOOD, didn't give a damn about deciphering hidden numbers.

[sheepdean]

I enjoyed Year zero without ARG, just for the songs, because they're GOOD, didn't give a damn about deciphering hidden numbers.
I loved YZ, and enjoyed the ARG, but I don't even really connect them, I don't listen to Vessel and think about Parepin.


Mostly because I totally think Vessel is about fucking dudes.

[elevenism]

as in
"I let you put in in my mouth"

and "they tell us what we can and cannot do...when I put you inside of me none of that matters anymore?"

yup. I've thought about that a time or three.

[elevenism]

PART DEUX (The Slip) See how inspired Trent is by his marriage/HTDA/soundtracks! (HM)

I heard trent talk about that in this npr interview
(http://www.npr.org/2013/09/04/218961237/trent-reznor-im-not-the-same-person-i-was-20-years-ago)
"I've kind of watched with amusement as the press has latched on to "Reznor, now 48, happily married with two kids and an Oscar winner," as if I can be summed up as that now. "He made a song with a major chord in it that we don't understand" -TR

it was pretty funny to me for some reason.

[implanted_microchip]

I definitely think a lot of reviews suffer for anything, be it music, films, books, games, etc., because they focus heavily on the context of the release and the creator(s) rather than the actual content. Altogether what matters most is what's in the package, not the stories surrounding it, and while a lot of things can have a lot of depth added and insight given through context, I don't think your average consumer wants to do research in order to enjoy something. When I love something, even when I hate something, I often go out of my way to find out as much about it as possible, but I think that attitude is certainly an exception to the rule.

People called HM the "happy" album simply because Trent now had a wife and children. I'm sorry, but there's nothing happy in any of it, at all. Mention Everything and I'll mention the chorus, the "This thing that lives inside of me will surely rise and wake," the loud distortion when the chorus hits, the almost intentional juxtaposition from this seemingly happy sound to a really ugly, grating sound. Black Noise is oppressive as all hell, Came Back Haunted is pretty unhappy, Copy of a is more questioning relevancy, All Time Low feels like a revisit to the drugged out days of The Fragile era, even tying directly into Into the Void with "the passengers arrived today, it looks as though they're here to stay," Running relates to Hurt in the very opening lines, I just don't hear the "happiness" in that album at all. The title is literally wounds from slitting your wrists, for fuck's sake.

Very often it seems like journalists these days are increasingly focusing on selling some narrative about whatever they're reviewing and focusing on at any given time, and one releases something first and all the others emulate it. Hardly any reviews of HM touch on how, if you put in context, if anything it's saying that having a family doesn't remedy your problems, it simply makes them harder to handle because you have less time for yourself. Hardly anyone touched on how The Slip seems to be so much about relevancy and questioning your voice and importance, wondering if you even matter anymore, of thinking you're past your problems only to slip back into them, I mean the album ends on "There is a seed inside of me" at the end of what is lyrically one of the most foreboding and sinister NIN songs I've ever had the pleasure of hearing. Instead it was, "Hey look, it's free! Clearly that's all this album has to say."

It just seems that a lot of media nowadays is more focused on what makes an interesting narrative about that artist from a personal viewpoint rather than considering the actual content of the art being reviewed. It's very dismissive to write HM off as the "happy" album, it's very dismissive to write off The Slip as simply an experiment. For whatever reason it feels like the media perception of NIN is far less focused on the actual music being released and shows being played and instead the personal life of Trent Reznor, and yet they ignore how much his life does fit with what he's making. It's like people seem to sell this idea that once you have children and you're married, that's it, no more problems, everything is fine, any mental illness or addiction you suffer from is magically cured, and that's just ludicrous. Those things may help, but I'm sure they can make things harder, too, and a song like I Would For You seems to speak to that vibrantly. "If I could be somebody else, well, I think I would for you" are not words someone totally secure and happy would be singing, but rather than actually pay any attention to the lyrics on Hesitation Marks I saw a ton of reviews and fans both write them all off as "typical NIN," maybe not considering that there's a reason for that.

[elevenism]

ahhh, another great essay from kleiner352 .

start a blog. i'll read it.

[sheepdean]

as in
"I let you put in in my mouth"

and "they tell us what we can and cannot do...when I put you inside of me none of that matters anymore?"

yup. I've thought about that a time or three.
Throw in various lyrics from Meet Your Master and maybe the ARG was just an elaborate way of Trent coming out?

[implanted_microchip]

Throw in various lyrics from Meet Your Master and maybe the ARG was just an elaborate way of Trent coming out?

Maybe Bleedthrough, with its discussion of parallel universes, would've revealed that Trent Reznor now is actually an alternate reality Trent who is secretly gay, and he's been trying to come to terms with it for years since. It was scrapped because he realized what that might do to his image as the guy who wrote the Fuck You Like an Animal song so he did the ARG to layer it with as many clues as possible, the most obvious being ignored: Trent Reznor has become an Alternate Reality Gay. ARG.

I'm so sorry for this

[screwdriver]

I definitely think a lot of reviews suffer for anything, be it music, films, books, games, etc., because they focus heavily on the context of the release and the creator(s) rather than the actual content. Altogether what matters most is what's in the package, not the stories surrounding it, and while a lot of things can have a lot of depth added and insight given through context, I don't think your average consumer wants to do research in order to enjoy something. When I love something, even when I hate something, I often go out of my way to find out as much about it as possible, but I think that attitude is certainly an exception to the rule.

People called HM the "happy" album simply because Trent now had a wife and children. I'm sorry, but there's nothing happy in any of it, at all. Mention Everything and I'll mention the chorus, the "This thing that lives inside of me will surely rise and wake," the loud distortion when the chorus hits, the almost intentional juxtaposition from this seemingly happy sound to a really ugly, grating sound. Black Noise is oppressive as all hell, Came Back Haunted is pretty unhappy, Copy of a is more questioning relevancy, All Time Low feels like a revisit to the drugged out days of The Fragile era, even tying directly into Into the Void with "the passengers arrived today, it looks as though they're here to stay," Running relates to Hurt in the very opening lines, I just don't hear the "happiness" in that album at all. The title is literally wounds from slitting your wrists, for fuck's sake.

Very often it seems like journalists these days are increasingly focusing on selling some narrative about whatever they're reviewing and focusing on at any given time, and one releases something first and all the others emulate it. Hardly any reviews of HM touch on how, if you put in context, if anything it's saying that having a family doesn't remedy your problems, it simply makes them harder to handle because you have less time for yourself. Hardly anyone touched on how The Slip seems to be so much about relevancy and questioning your voice and importance, wondering if you even matter anymore, of thinking you're past your problems only to slip back into them, I mean the album ends on "There is a seed inside of me" at the end of what is lyrically one of the most foreboding and sinister NIN songs I've ever had the pleasure of hearing. Instead it was, "Hey look, it's free! Clearly that's all this album has to say."

It just seems that a lot of media nowadays is more focused on what makes an interesting narrative about that artist from a personal viewpoint rather than considering the actual content of the art being reviewed. It's very dismissive to write HM off as the "happy" album, it's very dismissive to write off The Slip as simply an experiment. For whatever reason it feels like the media perception of NIN is far less focused on the actual music being released and shows being played and instead the personal life of Trent Reznor, and yet they ignore how much his life does fit with what he's making. It's like people seem to sell this idea that once you have children and you're married, that's it, no more problems, everything is fine, any mental illness or addiction you suffer from is magically cured, and that's just ludicrous. Those things may help, but I'm sure they can make things harder, too, and a song like I Would For You seems to speak to that vibrantly. "If I could be somebody else, well, I think I would for you" are not words someone totally secure and happy would be singing, but rather than actually pay any attention to the lyrics on Hesitation Marks I saw a ton of reviews and fans both write them all off as "typical NIN," maybe not considering that there's a reason for that.

agree with everything you say, except the idea that its journalists "these days" -- it's always been journalism and always will be.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

"I've kind of watched with amusement as the press has latched on to "Reznor, now 48, happily married with two kids and an Oscar winner," as if I can be summed up as that now. "He made a song with a major chord in it that we don't understand" -TR

it was pretty funny to me for some reason.
And in the first intro paragraph it says, "Today, Reznor's dark days of alcohol and drug abuse are behind him — and he finds himself, at 48, with a wife and two young kids." :p

[elevenism]

And in the first intro paragraph it says, "Today, Reznor's dark days of alcohol and drug abuse are behind him — and he finds himself, at 48, with a wife and two young kids." :p

i don't know if it's the same interview, but there's a part where the lady plays part of HLAH and says "bow down before the one you serve...you're going to get what you deserve. What did you mean by that?" And she says it all pensively and grandly (idk how to describe it, you'd just have to hear it.)

and trent's like "are you asking me what i was thinking at a particular moment, like, twenty years ago?"

and he gets kind of offended, tells her he doesn't know the answer to that question. it's great.

most nin fans would probably get a kick out of listening to that interview, btw

edit: here's a little controversy. Trent's speaking voice these days gets on my nerves just the tiniest bit.

[GlitchyFlame]

MM's album release dates have always been very close to NIN's.
Such as PoAAF coming out the same year as TDS, The Triptych being sandwiched between the Fragile, etc.
But I feel that TPE is the first MM album to surpass a NIN release. HM just sounded... sort of weak. Of course this is all subjected, but I was disappointed pun not intended by the minimal and repetitive sound of HM.

[Halo Infinity]

ahhh, another great essay from @kleiner352 (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=4417) .

start a blog. i'll read it.
Agreed. I might even go out on a limb to say that it would be a total honor for him, and an honor for me to see him having a column like The Meathead Perspective, but on serious articles, reviews, observations, reports and dissections about Nine Inch Nails as a whole, especially as a long time follower of The NIN Hotline and Echoing the Sound. I just thought of throwing it out there.

@Leviathant (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1) - What do you think? kleiner352 would seem to make a great Nine Inch Nails blog for The NIN Hotline. (Not that I'm assuming that it'll happen as soon as possible, should it be even considered, and I'm sure it'll take some time and planning for even getting in the zone for an official blog for The NIN Hotline, but he'd seem to fit into that role perfectly should that opportunity become feasible.)

@kleiner352 (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=4417) - Yes, I'm actually that impressed. Even if you were just a fan since the Hesitation Marks era, you certainly have the old school NIN fan spirit. :D

[r_z]

It just seems that a lot of media nowadays is more focused on what makes an interesting narrative about that artist from a personal viewpoint

How do feel about Trents affinity to carefully creating his own narrative each time a new album gets released? :

HM is the TDS anniversary album.
The Slip is the quickly thrown together electronic garage album for him to experiment with business models.
Year Zero is the political record.
With Teeth is the I'm done with drugs record.
etc.

[m15a]

How do feel about Trents affinity to carefully creating his own narrative each time a new album gets released? :

HM is the TDS anniversary album.
The Slip is the quickly thrown together electronic garage album for him to experiment with business models.
Year Zero is the political record.
With Teeth is the I'm done with drugs record.
etc.

Those are all very rough, somewhat skewed summaries of how Trent described each album. Even if those descriptions weren't the ones used by the media, they follow the same sort of formula of finding a catchy snippet of information to use as a headline/quote. There's a difference between saying "this album is political" (meaning that politics is one aspect of the album) and "this is the political album".

[screwdriver]

MM's album release dates have always been very close to NIN's.
Such as PoAAF coming out the same year as TDS, The Triptych being sandwiched between the Fragile, etc.
But I feel that TPE is the first MM album to surpass a NIN release. HM just sounded... sort of weak. Of course this is all subjected, but I was disappointed pun not intended by the minimal and repetitive sound of HM.
I understand but disagree with feeling disappointed by HM. I don't understand and disagree with saying HM is minimal and repetitive but preferring TPE (by implication saying its not)

[kel]

rob's face pisses me off. the way people worship that douche around here is so annoying.

fuck that guy.

[implanted_microchip]

How do feel about Trents affinity to carefully creating his own narrative each time a new album gets released? :

HM is the TDS anniversary album.
The Slip is the quickly thrown together electronic garage album for him to experiment with business models.
Year Zero is the political record.
With Teeth is the I'm done with drugs record.
etc.

I'd argue there's a difference between what's more or less a thesis statement for an album, and journalists reducing an entire album to a three-sentence biography of Trent Reznor at any given time. Obviously with anything any artist makes, there's some sort of main point/goal in mind when they make it. But I'd totally argue on the anniversary album statement, as Trent said a lot of it was him looking back on that era of his life, and where he is now, and seeing how different he is and yet how he still can connect to that guy he once was, and that's a lot deeper than a "tribute album" to my ears.

Year Zero is a concept album, it has an entire wealth of story and fiction behind it, The Warning has its own comic book basically, it's more sophisticated than simply "the political album."

Overall there's nothing wrong with stating an album's overall focus, but my irritation lies with reviews and journalists that neglect to look at the full product and just latch on to these single statements, or simply say "Well Trent Reznor's life is now this so that means the album is too."

Also, Trent himself has said that every album cycle he ends up having a sort of pre-recorded mental list of answers to the same typical questions. I'd blame his lack of in-depth discussion on a lot of recent albums on a lack of in-depth questions from interviewers. Even in The Fragile era there was this fantastic Japanese interview that asked him heavily about different songs, different actual aspects of the album, brought up the album credits even, and I can't say there's a whole lot of interviews being produced in that vein nowadays.

[r_z]

valid point.

is there an english version of said interview somewhere?

[screwdriver]

I'd argue there's a difference between what's more or less a thesis statement for an album, and journalists reducing an entire album to a three-sentence biography of Trent Reznor at any given time. Obviously with anything any artist makes, there's some sort of main point/goal in mind when they make it. But I'd totally argue on the anniversary album statement, as Trent said a lot of it was him looking back on that era of his life, and where he is now, and seeing how different he is and yet how he still can connect to that guy he once was, and that's a lot deeper than a "tribute album" to my ears.

Year Zero is a concept album, it has an entire wealth of story and fiction behind it, The Warning has its own comic book basically, it's more sophisticated than simply "the political album."

Overall there's nothing wrong with stating an album's overall focus, but my irritation lies with reviews and journalists that neglect to look at the full product and just latch on to these single statements, or simply say "Well Trent Reznor's life is now this so that means the album is too."

Also, Trent himself has said that every album cycle he ends up having a sort of pre-recorded mental list of answers to the same typical questions. I'd blame his lack of in-depth discussion on a lot of recent albums on a lack of in-depth questions from interviewers. Even in The Fragile era there was this fantastic Japanese interview that asked him heavily about different songs, different actual aspects of the album, brought up the album credits even, and I can't say there's a whole lot of interviews being produced in that vein nowadays.

can you direct me to this Fragile-era interview?

[implanted_microchip]

valid point.

is there an english version of said interview somewhere?
Yep! Here's part 1, part 2 is in the related videos ( screwdriver as well)


http://youtu.be/hEB56kTLPsU

[screwdriver]

Yep! Here's part 1, part 2 is in the related videos ( @screwdriver (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=380) as well)


http://youtu.be/hEB56kTLPsU
ah yes I remember this one -- thanks!!!

[allegro]

I definitely think a lot of reviews suffer for anything, be it music, films, books, games, etc., because they focus heavily on the context of the release and the creator(s) rather than the actual content
The NPR interview that seems to be the focus of this discussion begins with the focus on a FAN-MADE video about the song "Everything" and how the fans are reacting perhaps negatively on forums to the positive upbeat nature of that song. The interviewer focuses on asking the writer of the song how he feels about his fans' reaction.

NPR isn't a music-blog or a music magazine. It's Public Radio. Its audience isn't going to understand intricate details about music that anybody else would care about, e.g. is HM a response or a follow-up to The Downward Spiral (because that would require an explanation or knowledge of TDS and each airtime piece has a certain number of minutes).

The interviewer goes on to ask these questions:

There's a sort of a creaky, percussive sound on the song "Find My Way." What is that? (this is a question that might have wide appeal to NPR listeners).

I just love that sound so much. What were you trying to get out of it? (ditto)

A few years ago, back in 2009, you wrote on your website that it was time to let Nine Inch Nails disappear for a while and you were done touring under that name. You worked on other projects, but now you're back — doing these big arena shows, huge festivals, Lollapalooza. What's it like feeding off of those crowds again after having been away for a stretch of time?

When you're onstage now and you're doing old Nine Inch Nails songs from the dark days, songs full of hurt and pain and anger, how do you pull that off? Does it feel very different from where you are now, in that it's painful in a visceral way — like peeling off a scab?

You were talking before about the through-line in some of the new media coverage — the happily married guy with the two kids, and how that can be sort of misleading. What do you think is the biggest misunderstanding about you?

And Reznor says:

"That's a good question. "

Remember, one has to remember the AUDIENCE when considering the interview, or even considering a review in a publication.

If I posted an academic literary analysis of Elizabeth from the Feminist Perspective in Austen's "Pride and Prejudice," here, 98% of you would be falling asleep after the 2nd page. Because you're not the intended audience.

[implanted_microchip]

allegro you make a really great point, and I just want to clarify I wasn't specifically citing any one single publication or interview, I was simply speaking in the general sense. I do think the very casual nature of consuming music and the culture in which a lot of people know a few things about a lot of subjects has led to things being less in-depth.

[allegro]

allegro you make a really great point, and I just want to clarify I wasn't specifically citing any one single publication or interview, I was simply speaking in the general sense. I do think the very casual nature of consuming music and the culture in which a lot of people know a few things about a lot of subjects has led to things being less in-depth.
Well, on the other hand, maybe Reznor's music has become less in-depth. There does come a point in an artist's career, particularly in rock and its sub-genres, where artists run out of steam and re-visit prior albums and make failed experiments and just generally have blocks to anything that even vaguely matches the level of creativity they had with the magnum opus (or two) they had in their respective careers. Rock is a young man/woman's game, like it or not. I remember reading Sting's comment, long ago, saying that songwriting's a HELL of a lot easier if you're in a lot of pain and if you're not in any pain you need to go find some, heh. Sting went through a REALLY long period of writer's block and finally ended it with his Broadway play, "The Last Ship," which ended up flopping, unfortunately. See this from Dave Grohl (http://www.irishtimes.com/culture/music/dave-grohl-rock-n-roll-is-a-young-man-s-game-and-at-this-point-i-m-like-the-fucking-gandalf-of-rock-n-roll-1.1999605). Reznor seems to be discovering this, himself. He doesn't seem to feel challenged by it, anymore. He seems to be more challenged by this film score thing. At some point, writing rock songs isn't as "genuine" coming from people older than a certain age. You can perform those songs (like Ozzy) but writing them is another story; you run out of juice. There's not a lot for a journalist to write about or discuss because there's just not a lot there. Sure YOU can because you're a rabid fan but that's not going to be interesting to the vast majority of the rest of the world that isn't a rabid fan, sorry.

Look at this interview (http://www.stereogum.com/1715900/trent-reznor-discusses-failed-hesitation-marks-sessions-with-arcade-fire-producer-skepticism-about-rock-hall-nomination-u2s-devaluing-music/news/).


Who was the producer, and what was the difference in approach?
It was Markus Dravs, who has worked with Arcade Fire quite a bit. He’s a song-based guy that’s less a studio rat, engineer-type like we are. I don’t want to throw him under the bus. I’m not here to talk shit about him. But there was a lot of “Let’s get an ensemble of people to play this thing,” and “We need an arranger to do that.” It didn’t feel like it was leading anywhere. I respect the guy and it didn’t end in a fistfight or anything. He was a means to an end to make us realize that our instincts about the record were the right way to go. The record that was finished, I’m very proud of. It felt like a reinvention to me.
So, Reznor hired the Arcade Fire producer? REALLY? That, in itself, shocked the living shit out of me. Like, WHY???? Desperation??

Okay, so it failed, and the failure felt like reinvention, even though he admits that he fell back into doing the same instinctive stuff they always do and didn't push the envelope and did what was comfortable, and hardly any journalists are asking him about the lyrics or what any of it means or if it's related to TDS because Reznor, himself, has set himself up with this Apple stuff, and film score stuff, and touring stuff, and all this other stuff, and if nobody asks him about the meaning of the album, it's a lot his own fault.

You DO realize that NIN's own publicists can give these interviewers kind of "cheat sheets" of questions to ask and not to ask, right?

I agree with you that people don't ingest music the way we used to; "we" not even meaning YOU, since you weren't even alive during the time when the only thing that existed was vinyl and maybe shitty 8-tracks and the ALBUM ruled and radio stations played entire albums and people sat down on the shag carpet and listened to entire albums, front-to-back, uninterrupted, and the only "multitasking" we did was look at the album's liner notes. But, trust me, journalism was the same, then, too. Not every rag was doing a song-by-song in-depth analysis of the latest fucking Cowsills album.

But, if you want an example, Here is a review of Christine McVie's eponymous solo album from Creem Magazine, May, 1984 (http://bla.fleetwoodmac.net/index.php?page=index_v2&id=1128&c=2).

[GlitchyFlame]

I understand but disagree with feeling disappointed by HM. I don't understand and disagree with saying HM is minimal and repetitive but preferring TPE (by implication saying its not)
I wasn't comparing it to TPE in that regard. I was saying as a NIN album it seemed minimal.

[Krazy]

Am I the only one that doesn't give a shit about a The Fragile re-release or whatever?

[tony.parente]

Am I the only one that doesn't give a shit about a The Fragile re-release or whatever?
You might, but then again you KRAZY AMIRITE?!?!

[Krazy]

You might, but then again you KRAZY AMIRITE?!?!

http://replygif.net/i/680.gif

YAY FRAGILE IN 5.1!!!

[WorzelG]

Look at this interview (http://www.stereogum.com/1715900/trent-reznor-discusses-failed-hesitation-marks-sessions-with-arcade-fire-producer-skepticism-about-rock-hall-nomination-u2s-devaluing-music/news/).

So, Reznor hired the Arcade Fire producer? REALLY? That, in itself, shocked the living shit out of me. Like, WHY???? Desperation??

Okay, so it failed, and the failure felt like reinvention, even though he admits that he fell back into doing the same instinctive stuff they always do and didn't push the envelope and did what was comfortable, and hardly any journalists are asking him about the lyrics or what any of it means or if it's related to TDS because Reznor, himself, has set himself up with this Apple stuff, and film score stuff, and touring stuff, and all this other stuff, and if nobody asks him about the meaning of the album, it's a lot his own fault.

He talks about the reasoning behind the hiring of the producer in this video at about 36mins. Partly I think it was because he knew people would moan about there being not enough live instrumentation and blah blah and wanted to say ' well we tried it with that and it didn't work'.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdKCVSBrV1I

[m15a]

Am I the only one that doesn't give a shit about a The Fragile re-release or whatever?

I don't really care about a 5.1 mix or a remaster or anything like that.

But if there's unreleased tracks or different mixes or takes and Trent thinks they're interesting enough to release, then I definitely care.

[implanted_microchip]

Am I the only one that doesn't give a shit about a The Fragile re-release or whatever?

The only thing I honestly care about is bonus content and a vinyl release that doesn't cost me 150+ to get used from someone on eBay. If it's done like the Smashing Pumpkins rereleases have been, with a deluxe CD set that includes a wealth of bonus content, demos, Trent commenting on each song or the album in general, and then a vinyl release of simply the album remastered that's your typical 35 USD or so, I'd be thrilled.

If it's just a 5.1 mix and a bonus disc of, like, TNF, 10 Miles High, a couple TFA remixes and TFA.com remixes and three unheard demos like TDS was, I'll be largely let down and not give much of a shit. And it really doesn't even need to be remastered otherwise, it still sounds perfect to me.

[Ryan]

The only thing I honestly care about is bonus content and a vinyl release that doesn't cost me 150+ to get used from someone on eBay. If it's done like the Smashing Pumpkins rereleases have been, with a deluxe CD set that includes a wealth of bonus content, demos, Trent commenting on each song or the album in general, and then a vinyl release of simply the album remastered that's your typical 35 USD or so, I'd be thrilled.

If it's just a 5.1 mix and a bonus disc of, like, TNF, 10 Miles High, a couple TFA remixes and TFA.com remixes and three unheard demos like TDS was, I'll be largely let down and not give much of a shit. And it really doesn't even need to be remastered otherwise, it still sounds perfect to me.

Yeah those 3 TDS demos were a let down. A whole second disc of stuff we'd all heard before then three demos we hadn't tacked on to the end.

[Khrz]

So I've cut Satellite and Everything off Hesitation Marks, going by the reasoning that although they were created during the same session, they weren't really supposed to be on the album since they predate it.
All in all I find that the album works better that way (to each his own), and it made me wonder if The Downward Spiral wouldn't benefit from having, say, Ruiner and Heresy (or even *gasp* Closer) cut off.
Not that they are lesser tracks, but just like HM, it would maybe make for a more straightforward album.

[sheepdean]

Yeah those 3 TDS demos were a let down. A whole second disc of stuff we'd all heard before then three demos we hadn't tacked on to the end.
90% of NIN fans aren't crazy obsessive nutters like us, and I'd wager most probably hadn't heard all of those tracks before. I think it's important to remember that with consideration of bonus tracks on reissues - how many NIN fans have heard TDTWWA (Quiet)? You can own all the albums (which most people would call a "big fan") and have never heard it. Hell, you can own every NIN album and not have Deep or The Perfect Drug!

As for the demos, well, demos aren't made to be released as a consumed product so of course they're rarely as good. It's nice to hear them, but it's hardly surprising when they're not the best thing ever.

[Khrz]

Hell, you can own every NIN album and not have Deep or The Perfect Drug!

Just for the sake of the argument, when you say "album" you mean LP ? Because as you're aware, The Perfect Drug is on the yellow WITT single...

And yeah, even if we get things we never heard before, like demos that never became full-fledged tracks, chances are that A : they weren't released for a good reason and B : we'll be disappointed to realize we already know snippets of them from tracks Reznor created afterwise. At best they'll be curiosities, at worst, indeed, we'll get a full third disc of remixes and versions we already know because we're psychos who will hunt down the most obscure variation of a track to the darkest corners on the internet...

[sheepdean]

Just for the sake of the argument, when you say "album" you mean LP ? Because as you're aware, The Perfect Drug is on the yellow WITT single...

And yeah, even if we get things we never heard before, like demos that never became full-fledged tracks, chances are that A : they weren't released for a good reason and B : we'll be disappointed to realize we already know snippets of them from tracks Reznor created afterwise. At best they'll be curiosities, at worst, indeed, we'll get a full third disc of remixes and versions we already know because we're psychos who will hunt down the most obscure variation of a track to the darkest corners on the internet...
I have no idea how else to define album than LP/EP - TPD is also on the TPD single after all

[Khrz]

If it makes you feel like you righted a bit of wrongs in this world, I thoroughly palmed my face and headed my desk when I read my post back...

Edit : to my defense, for some reason even though I live in France and own the TPD single, I somehow ended up with the american version where the original track is absent...

[billpulsipher]

I thought the Heresy demo was sick as hell....has a Skinny Puppy late 80s vibe. Better than the album version

[Khrz]

Man, I have more often agreed with people who love bands I hate than I have with you, who loves a band I love... As a wise man said, "I'm not even mad, that's amazing" !
Surely, what NIN didn't need is more comparisons to SP ? I agree with you, the demo sounds like early Skinny Puppy, stripped-down bang on vats rythm, Nivek Ogre-ish growl and all. But how is that a good thing in the context of a completely different band ?

[howdidislipinto]

and it made me wonder if The Downward Spiral wouldn't benefit from having, say, Ruiner cut off

Personally speaking, this is the most controversial NIN opinion I've ever seen. Trent's lyrics all make sense to me now.

(I was more in it for the music these last 18 years.)

[howdidislipinto]

It's been like a year and a half since HM, right? I feel comfortable calling it now. Copy Of A is the best song Trent has ever written.

Related but less controversial: it's ridiculous that Copy Of A wasn't the comeback single, didn't have a video, and the only taste the mainstream got of it was the Grammys abortion.

[WorzelG]

It's been like a year and a half since HM, right? I feel comfortable calling it now. Copy Of A is the best song Trent has ever written.

Related but less controversial: it's ridiculous that Copy Of A wasn't the comeback single, didn't have a video, and the only taste the mainstream got of it was the Grammys abortion.
Copy of a relies so much on the gradual build ups and climaxes, I wonder why it was chosen for the grammies, it doesn't suit being cut short. Don't get me started on lack of videos / promotion for this album!

[m15a]

And yeah, even if we get things we never heard before, like demos that never became full-fledged tracks, chances are that A : they weren't released for a good reason and B : we'll be disappointed to realize we already know snippets of them from tracks Reznor created afterwise. At best they'll be curiosities, at worst, indeed, we'll get a full third disc of remixes and versions we already know because we're psychos who will hunt down the most obscure variation of a track to the darkest corners on the internet...

B would not disappoint me. That'd be pretty interesting actually. I'd be interested in hearing some of how tracks developed and how they could have sounded. I wouldn't call that just a "curiosity".

EDIT: I agree that there could definitely be a lot of already-released stuff on the theoretical third disc. After all, we've already gotten some alternative approaches to tracks and such on nin.com, like The Fragile (Deconstructed) - probably even a lot of big NIN fans haven't heard that. And the vinyl release (and the tape release) has some parts that a lot of fans haven't heard or at least don't (legally) own.

[BenAkenobi]

...
Not that they are lesser tracks...

Why not? Among all those tracks some are bound to be lesser. Not a fan of Ruiner, myself :D

[billpulsipher]

Man, I have more often agreed with people who love bands I hate than I have with you, who loves a band I love... As a wise man said, "I'm not even mad, that's amazing" !
Surely, what NIN didn't need is more comparisons to SP ? I agree with you, the demo sounds like early Skinny Puppy, stripped-down bang on vats rythm, Nivek Ogre-ish growl and all. But how is that a good thing in the context of a completely different band ?

As a demo, its good...if that song made the album, TR would have gotten lit up for ripping off SP

[sheepdean]

As a demo, its good...if that song made the album, TR would have gotten lit up for ripping off SP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDKkRSUrTd8

[WorzelG]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDKkRSUrTd8
It took me a while to hear any Down In It similarities there. I think the songs sound WAY different. It's like that Swans thing, the songs don't resemble each other at all.

Also they couldn't have been that bothered about it since they asked NIN to support them on tour back in 1988,they must have heard some stuff

[implanted_microchip]

It took me a while to hear any Down In It similarities there. I think the songs sound WAY different. It's like that Swans thing, the songs don't resemble each other at all

It really is the drum beat more than anything. I get the similarities but every time it's brought up by people as some "Trent Reznor Destroying FACT!" by people it just seems ridiculous to me.

[Khrz]

Not a "TR destroying fact", but honestly it does feel like Reznor was looking over cEvin Key's shoulder and taking notes. I know tracks of roughly the same scene during the same era are bound to share a lot of DNA, but the guitar and drum beats are really similar.



Why not? Among all those tracks some are bound to be lesser. Not a fan of Ruiner, myself :D

Because The Downward Spiral/Further Down The Spiral is my NIN canon and as such, there can be no lesser tracks on any of those two records :p

[eversonpoe]

It's like that Swans thing, the songs don't resemble each other at all.

what swans thing?!?

[reseen_lamenti]

what swans thing?!?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djr7fp_JxgA

[WorzelG]

^^^the irony is I don't even like that song very much. And I think SICNH could change up the notes on the piano backing and still be just as powerful a song. (tori Amos did change it up a bit in her cover)

[howdidislipinto]

if SINCH is a rip off of the Swans track, what does that make that Primitive Radio Gods song from the '90s? *head implodes*

This all inspired me to finally listen to Bowie's Crystal Japan for the first time. Yikes. (Though if anything, it's kind of sweet.)

[fillow]

[Swans video]
aaand you can trace this all the way back to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58_S5e0AVU0

[WorzelG]

aaand you can trace this all the way back to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58_S5e0AVU0
Do you know what? I think I really have to give The Wall another listen. I bought the vinyl years ago when I was 18 and felt totally underwhelmed, but I don't think I gave it a chance

[m15a]

^^^the irony is I don't even like that song very much. And I think SICNH could change up the notes on the piano backing and still be just as powerful a song. (tori Amos did change it up a bit in her cover)
I wouldn't even know that song sounds like SICNH unless you said so. I can hear it I guess, and there's nothing wrong with noticing a connection. But I wonder if people that say Trent stole that song just haven't heard (and paid attention to) that much music (of that type). Or maybe it's just about being familiar with writing or playing music - there aren't many possibilities when you're working with all the constraints of a genre. And an artist's goal isn't always to create something dissimilar from whatever else is out there.

I know there are people that do actively copy others' music, but even if you think Trent wasn't above that (or that it was unconscious), you should be aware that it is at least possible it's a coincidence. Unless "you" happens to be a musicologist or whatever that actually thoroughly researched the situation.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

So I've cut Satellite and Everything off Hesitation Marks, going by the reasoning that although they were created during the same session, they weren't really supposed to be on the album since they predate it.
Everything is a bit of an anomaly, but Satellite sounds very HM to me. I'm looking forward to seeing it on the full Tension video.


It took me a while to hear any Down In It similarities there. I think the songs sound WAY different. It's like that Swans thing, the songs don't resemble each other at all.
I heard the resemblance to DII right away — but I'm also on record saying "Dig It > Down in It," so I'm already going to Hell. :p


Do you know what? I think I really have to give The Wall another listen. I bought the vinyl years ago when I was 18 and felt totally underwhelmed, but I don't think I gave it a chance
I was thinking the same thing a few days ago. Another Brick in the Wall Pt 2 is always going to sound horribly dated, Comfortably Numb is overplayed, and Roger Waters' personality is kinda overwhelming by that point — but I figure there still has to be some good stuff in there.

[m15a]

I was thinking the same thing a few days ago. Another Brick in the Wall Pt 2 is always going to sound horribly dated, Comfortably Numb is overplayed, and Roger Waters' personality is kinda overwhelming by that point — but I figure there still has to be some good stuff in there.

That's kind of like saying "Closer is overplayed and Trent was kind of a jerk then, but maybe there are some good tracks on TDS". But weirder than that because The Wall has a pretty cohesive narrative. Just listen to the whole thing and judge it on what it is! (Maybe watch the film.)

[sheepdean]

That's kind of like saying "Closer is overplayed and Trent was kind of a jerk then, but maybe there are some good tracks on TDS". But weirder than that because The Wall has a pretty cohesive narrative. Just listen to the whole thing and judge it on what it is! (Maybe watch the film.)
Not to mention: it's part 2. As in, it's part of a concept, that is finalised in part 3's gorgeous collapse.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

All right all right, I'll give it a proper listen. :)

(Never gonna take the place of Wish You Were Here, though.)

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

Back to controversial NIN opinions: Is it just me, or does Ghosts IV beat the living crap out of I–III?

[howdidislipinto]

Back to controversial NIN opinions: Is it just me, or does Ghosts IV beat the living crap out of I–III?

If you try to look at them as separate, cohesive EPs, Ghosts IV is by far the best.

[Leviathant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDKkRSUrTd8

You know, I listened to Mark Steward for the first time after reading that bit where Keith LeBlanc said it sounded like Trent was just trying to copy Mark Stewart.

Holy shitballs, if Skinny Puppy fans still try and tie Dig It to Down In It, they should be shouted out of the room by Mark Stewart fans. Whereas no one would ever mistake NIN for Skinny Puppy or vice versa, I'm sure you could pass off Mark Stewart's 80s work (this, for example (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffemym_1V8s&list=PLyveQyECu5oKJnC-n229jtfqiaSv6hCYw)) as unreleased Skinny Puppy and I wonder if anyone would ever notice.

[The_Prowler]

Do you know what? I think I really have to give The Wall another listen. I bought the vinyl years ago when I was 18 and felt totally underwhelmed, but I don't think I gave it a chance
Listen to the live album. It takes an already amazing album and makes it even more epic. I still like the studio version, but my preferred go-to is definitely the live one.

[icecream]

Do you know what? I think I really have to give The Wall another listen. I bought the vinyl years ago when I was 18 and felt totally underwhelmed, but I don't think I gave it a chance

I love Pink Floyd as much as NIN and had a similar experience with The Wall. Didn't get it and then never listened to it much after. Finally I decided to dedicate some time to taking it all in and I loved it. I think I let the legend of the album build up my expectations for it too much. Maybe you did something similar?

[The_Prowler]

If you've never seen the movie for The Wall, I would definitely recommend watching that, too. As trippy as it is, it'll actually help you understand the album better. The first few times I listened to it, I loved it but didn't necessarily understand the story. When I saw the movie, everything clicked and I had a deeper appreciation for it.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

OK, so last week I listened to The Wall for the first time since the 80s. Up through Hey You it builds beautifully,* but I got kinda bored after that. Maybe it's the orchestra.

* But ABINTW parts 2 and 3 still need to lose those disco trappings

[elevenism]

MM's album release dates have always been very close to NIN's.
Such as PoAAF coming out the same year as TDS, The Triptych being sandwiched between the Fragile, etc.
But I feel that TPE is the first MM album to surpass a NIN release. HM just sounded... sort of weak. Of course this is all subjected, but I was disappointed pun not intended by the minimal and repetitive sound of HM.

i wanted to apologize for facepalming your post the other day.

I REALLY disagree, but i can't fucking stand people being assholes over subjective opinions.
That day, i was, in fact, that asshole.

[GulDukat]

You know how Bob Dylan just released his Frank Sinatra covers album? I'd love NIN to do the same. Big band/industrial versions of "My Way," "Night and Day," "Young at Heart," "Angel Eyes," etc. It could be a train-wreck of epic proportions, or something totally unique and cool.

[sheepdean]

You know how Bob Dylan just released his Frank Sinatra covers album? I'd love NIN to do the same. Big band/industrial versions of "My Way," "Night and Day," "Young at Heart," "Angel Eyes," etc. It could be a train-wreck of epic proportions, or something totally unique and cool.
♪When I was twenty-six, it was a very good year, I was on my way to hell♪

[GulDukat]

♪When I was twenty-six, it was a very good year, I was on my way to hell♪
As my albums started to sell
And Manson and I would mix
When I was 26...

[GlitchyFlame]

The instrumental for the Heresy demo is way better than the finished song. The angrier synth blazing with the crunchy drum beat from the very second the song starts is perfect.

[GulDukat]

I think that the Taylor Swift-NIN mashup is really, really good. I almost prefer it to the real TPD.

[EndlessLoveless]

The outro of 'the perfect drug' is one of my favorite parts of any nin song. Same goes for 'the new flesh'. The part where he sings "im becoooooomiiiiinggg". (I think thats what he says) But that guitar riff mixed with those muted drums.........perfection. I love when he uses that muted, kind of classic rock drum sound. Same with the end of TPD. And the middle solo section of 'ruiner'. More of that please.