Controversial Nine Inch Nails opinions

[copy_of_b]

I fucking love "Everything" and I don't think it's the happy song everyone seems to think it is.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

I think all the controversial NIN opinions have decamped for the Grammys/Beats threads (and anyplace billpulsipher turns up).

So … Skinny Puppy’s Dig It > Down in It?

[renholder]

I haven't liked anything since Still.

[katara]

I haven't liked anything since Still.
I don't believe this for a second. Not even one song? How about Another Version Of The Truth or 2 Ghosts I?

[renholder]

I don't believe this for a second. Not even one song? How about Another Version Of The Truth or 2 Ghosts I?

I meant there are no entire albums where I've liked them as a whole. Every Day Is Exactly The Same was catchy in a nice way, there were a couple things on the Year Zero remix disc that I'll listen to now and then. But overall, nothing's resonated with me at all, which is a shame after growing up on NIN. On the other hand, I definitely expanded my musical tastes in a huge way trying to fill the void.

[Halo Infinity]

This is an observation on controversial NIN opinions that thankfully weren't my own because that means I wouldn't have been able to enjoy the following albums as much as I've did. Aside from the controversial opinion regarding Broken not being that important, it probably doesn't get as controversial as stating that The Downward Spiral and The Fragile aren't among NIN's best works.

It really is hard for me to even imagine it that way. This isn't also to undermine, downplay, or write off NIN's 2000s output... but the controversy of those opinions have certainly shook me up. (As they should've been controversial anyway, so it really was no wonder that I was in for a surprise.) I think I saw that on NIN.com's Controversial Nine Inch Nails Opinions thread. Whoever posted that there would've also found this thread to be perfect for him repeat the said post as well.

[mercyshallow]

This is an observation on controversial NIN opinions that thankfully weren't my own because that means I wouldn't have been able to enjoy the following albums as much as I've did. Aside from the controversial opinion regarding Broken not being that important, it probably doesn't get as controversial as stating that The Downward Spiral and The Fragile aren't among NIN's best works.

It really is hard for me to even imagine it that way. This isn't also to undermine, downplay, or write off NIN's 2000s output... but the controversy of those opinions have certainly shook me up. (As they should've been controversial anyway, so it really was no wonder that I was in for a surprise.) I think I saw that on NIN.com's Controversial Nine Inch Nails Opinions thread. Whoever posted that there would've also found this thread to be perfect for him repeat the said post as well.

I'm kind of confused by this post. It's kind of all over the place. Are you saying that your controversial opinion is that the output released by nine inch nails *after* Broken is sub par? Maybe I'm just confused by the way you worded your post?
Nevertheless, (if that is, indeed, what you are saying) then I completely agree that most would disagree. However, I am intrigued to hear why your taste doesn't lean towards releases past Broken (or Fixed, for that matter).
I'm interested to hear the perspective of someone who loves late 80s / early 90s NIN who feel that the "band" lost its way once they released their first full-length major release.
I could be wrong, of course! I just don't understand your post, I guess.

Time for my controversial opinion I guess!

People seem to be criticizing Reznor for playing the Grammy's. Well, here's my (drunk, half-assed opinion) on the whole thing.
When I was "uber-Reznor" and I kind of idolized the guy, I admired the fact that he was sincere and transparent about the situation he had with record labels. Yes, people change, and the business has (without a doubt) changed. Of course things change.

To me though. This was different.

When I was a (kid) who still had posters on his walls of his favorite musicians, railed against the status quo, and anticipated supergroups like APC and Tapeworm (lol), I still looked up to Reznor who was trying to change the game.
He had his own label. He was trying to grant artistic freedom to the artists he signed. He was taking a risk. He was trying to change things.
Mr. Trent Reznor saw how things were and (especially being a victim of such injustices) was using his influence to change the game. I admired that. Even if you weren't a "goth kid who loved Nails and Manson" you still had to admire the tenacity of someone who had the power and integrity to bend it a certain way. I loved that.
Admittedly, I'm not the smartest person - and I know that I'm not even a grain of sand compared to Reznor's talent, devotion, and intelligence.

Buut....

I just kind of feel like now he kind of phones it in. Yeah, I'm going to get a million negative replies to this. I know.
But c'mon.
He wants to be a billionaire corporation "game changing" executive.
Okay, I get it. "He want's the best for his future and his kidzz" etc.
Seriously, though. It bothers me that he is using his main personal artistic outlet (NIN) as a brand to sell a product.
The entire song "Head Like A Hole" (minus the religiousness) essentially rails against this philosophy.

Don't get me wrong. If I were in the same position, and had the same opportunities - you bet your ass I would be making the same decisions.
But it kind of deflates the big balloon of anti-authoritarianism and makes it seem like it was only hot air.

I am a HUGE Nine Inch Nails fan. I *love* Reznor, and have been a devoted fan and follower of ETS.org. But the "Wave Goodbye" tour, the "Beats" crap, and the Grammy performance are starting to make me feel a little embarrassed.

Why am I embarrassed? Yeah I know! Usually I wouldn't be embarrassed about trivial shit. Neither would you. But I've been gunning for this guy and his 'revolutionary' methods for a long time.
I've sat here and defended this guy because of the grounds he stood on. This guy was the ultimate anti-authoritarian; and in more than one way.

Now I get to sit here and dodge attacks from people who get to say "I toldja sew".

I don't care if you think "he changed his mind" and blah blah, etc. Seriously.
He's gone full circle, and a lot of us want an explanation.
We want "the old Reznor" back.

Shut the fuck up about us wanting him back on drugs. You just shut the fuck up right now, because you know that's not what we want. So just shut the fuck up.
We want the man who made the movement that forced the major label's to adapt. We want That dude back. Not the guy who was jealous about Josh Homme having Elton John on the Queens record, so he haphazardly hired Lindsey Buckingham so he could keep up with the rising tide of more relevant rock bands.
Come on Trent. If you want to do this "beatz" thing. Do it right. Let's see something that changes the industry. Not some BS so you can go have champagne with Jay-Z on a Yacht somewhere.
I love you dude. You are like, my idol. I want the the biography to end without you sucking paul mccartneys nuts or something weird.

Goodnight ETS. Hopefully one day you can come live with me in (australia) Canada.

[howdidislipinto]

lots of stuff

While I didn't read every word of your post, I think I understand where you're coming from -- while wholly disagreeing. I have to say, with all the "controversial" NIN decisions/opinions of that last couple of days, we should remind ourselves what truly EMBARRASSING artists are really like. Did you guys ever see Billy Corgan rap Bullet With Butterfly Wings in a TV commercial to promote wrestling? Have you seen what Marilyn Manson has looked like for last 10 years? Did you hear The King Of Limbs?

Man, we have it easy. Thanks for staying cool, Trent.

[renholder]

Did you guys ever see Billy Corgan rap Bullet With Butterfly Wings in a TV commercial to promote wrestling? Have you seen what Marilyn Manson has looked like for last 10 years? Did you hear The King Of Limbs?

Those first two were decent arguments, but calling out Radiohead for TKoL is extremely hypocritical and 100% opinion. I was a lot more embarrassed of being a NIN fan when I heard With Teeth than I was of being a Radiohead fan when I heard TKoL.

[Khrz]

Apples Oranges Tomato Coconuts, thanks Trent for being Banana.

Okay, that's a bit snarky, but seriously...

[howdidislipinto]

Okay, that's a bit snarky, but seriously...

Is comparing Trent to the people he came up with really that strange? The only reason the comparison might be off-putting is that (yes, with the exception of Radiohead) most '90s alternative acts either have no career or a career based solely on nostalgia -- which, again, good on Trent.


Those first two were decent arguments, but calling out Radiohead for TKoL is extremely hypocritical and 100% opinion. I was a lot more embarrassed of being a NIN fan when I heard With Teeth than I was of being a Radiohead fan when I heard TKoL.

It was a joke, though also most definitely my opinion. TKoL is a hollow turd. Even With Teeth has ATLITW, Sunspots and BYIT.

(Do we dare start controversial Radiohead opinions somewhere? Amnesiac is many million times better than Kid A!)

[renholder]

Is comparing Trent to the people he came up with really that strange? The only reason the comparison might be off-putting is that (yes, with the exception of Radiohead) most '90s alternative acts either have no career or a career based solely on nostalgia -- which, again, good on Trent.



It was a joke, though also most definitely my opinion. TKoL is a hollow turd. Even With Teeth has ATLITW, Sunspots and BYIT.

(Do we dare start controversial Radiohead opinions somewhere? Amnesiac is many million times better than Kid A!)

Haha, we should. The Bends is my favorite Radiohead album, so I'd have fun in that thread.

[r_z]

TKOL is miles above HM.

[Halo Infinity]

I'm kind of confused by this post. It's kind of all over the place. Are you saying that your controversial opinion is that the output released by nine inch nails *after* Broken is sub par? Maybe I'm just confused by the way you worded your post?
Nevertheless, (if that is, indeed, what you are saying) then I completely agree that most would disagree. However, I am intrigued to hear why your taste doesn't lean towards releases past Broken (or Fixed, for that matter).
I just have to respond to this in hopes to not have those opinions confused with mine. I love Pretty Hate Machine, Broken, The Downward Spiral, and The Fragile. I am addicted to those albums as they have also helped me a lot emotionally, in spite of already being immensely and musically entertaining. I also love With Teeth and Year Zero, and didn't think The Slip was bad at all and also have a lot of respect for Ghosts I-IV even if I don't listen to it that much. Besides, as somebody that also loves And All That Could Have Been (Still), it was also inevitable that Ghosts I-IV would really grow on me a lot, even though I tend to skip around on it. The Downward Spiral and The Fragile as clearly among his best works. To deny that is almost akin to denying an objective fact.

I was sharing a controversial opinion that I saw. The person that said that really tried to suggest that Nine Inch Nails wasn't at his best during 1989-1999. That's what shook me up about it so much, and it was in NIN.com. The only opinion that was second controversial to me, was this one, and it's on ETS.

http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/2130-Controversial-Nine-Inch-Nails-opinions?p=123116#post123116

On the other hand, I've seen people go as far as to say that The Downward Spiral sucked only to edit/delete their comments.

[marodi]

More NIN/Lindsey Buckingham collaboration!

[r_z]

yay, facepalms for controversial opinions. way to go, folks.

[m15a]

sucking paul mccartneys nuts

(the post was long, so i had to trim the quote. ;)) i think this post is less so "controversial opinion" and more so "controversial speculation." you're objecting to things that trent might be thinking and his possible motivations.

i'd be embarrassed if i idolized trent, too. but i'd be embarrassed for my own idolization, not for how trent does or does not stand up to it.

[Leviathant]

(Do we dare start controversial Radiohead opinions somewhere? Amnesiac is many million times better than Kid A!)

Radiohead hasn't made an album worth listening to since Hail to the Thief, and if they combined Kid A, Amnesiac & the B-sides so long as they jettisoned off the flotsam, there'd be an unstoppable album in there.

:D


But there's a whole "Shit on music" thread somewhere for stuff like that, it's not on-topic in this thread.

[Jinsai]

Radiohead hasn't made an album worth listening to since Hail to the Thief

That's just untrue, and King of Limbs was underrated by fans in general. It was fucking interesting

[Halo Infinity]

TKOL is miles above HM.
This just made me laugh. :p Yeah... The Downward Spiral? Whatever... OK Computer is where it's at, bitches! The Fragile? You've got to be kidding be. Ain't nobody got time for that! Break out the Kid A and Amnesiac yo! ;)

It's all good though, as I can also understand why one could/would also even go as far as to favor Radiohead over Nine Inch Nails altogether, even though I listen to NIN a lot more. (On top of this being the Controversial Nine Inch Nails opinions thread and all.)

@Kid Charlemagne (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=92) - I also thought that you'd like to see this. :p

[Volband]

I just have to respond to this in hopes to not have those opinions confused with mine. I love Pretty Hate Machine, Broken, The Downward Spiral, and The Fragile. I am addicted to those albums as they have also helped me a lot emotionally, in spite of already being immensely and musically entertaining. I also love With Teeth and Year Zero, and didn't think The Slip was bad at all and also have a lot of respect for Ghosts I-IV even if I don't listen to it that much. Besides, as somebody that also loves And All That Could Have Been (Still), it was also inevitable that Ghosts I-IV would really grow on me a lot, even though I tend to skip around on it. The Downward Spiral and The Fragile as clearly among his best works. To deny that is almost akin to denying an objective fact.

I was sharing a controversial opinion that I saw. The person that said that really tried to suggest that Nine Inch Nails wasn't at his best during 1989-1999. That's what shook me up about it so much, and it was in NIN.com. The only opinion that was second controversial to me, was this one, and it's on ETS.

http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/2130-Controversial-Nine-Inch-Nails-opinions?p=123116#post123116

On the other hand, I've seen people go as far as to say that The Downward Spiral sucked only to edit/delete their comments.
Kris, I don't know if you were told this, but you are quite sensitive. That's actually cute. No homo (unless you are up to it (just kidding (OR AM I))).

As for the other controversial opinion: you do realise this guy has foreseen our deaest bill's arrival to the board? If there were no Broken, there might not be a bill raging how Trent is not the same! Though I find it amusing that anyone would like LESS NIN-content, when we've been "ripped" from so much already.


yay, facepalms for controversial opinions. way to go, folks.
That's actually retarded, and makes this whole thread irrelevant. The only difference between posting here and Random NIN Thoughts, is that there people will beat you up, for shitting in the Holy Place, while here you are facepalmed from the outside, as a warning that you and your opinions are being watched, and not liked by the masses, but clicking facepalm is way easier, than coming up with an arguement, or at least a witty-comeback punch. #rantover

[Halo Infinity]

Kris, I don't know if you were told this, but you are quite sensitive. That's actually cute. No homo (unless you are up to it (just kidding (OR AM I))).
Yes, I was told this for most of my life. I've also been prone to take a lot of things seriously and literally. I also have a tendency to analyze what people say, and of course, if it's not the flaw of taking things personally when I shouldn't, it also is sometimes a problem with me just reading far too much into things. On the bright side, it can help me become more understanding when my emotions aren't blinding me. And well. Now you know a bit more of me.

It also really would show a lot in The Mental Health Thread, The Friendship Thread, and The Relationship Thread, and go figure that somebody like me would end up using Broken, The Downward Spiral, and The Fragile as a form of therapy. (Which is another reason I became addicted to Nine Inch Nails, aside from all of the entertainment factors that were present.)

And well... I hope that I'm supposed to be flattered in some sort of humorous way, as I really didn't expect that type of response in this thread. And when I said that it shook me up, it really was shocking. It's hard for me to even imagine the first ten years of Nine Inch Nails not being among the best, but it's not like I was aggravated or upset. It was just very confusing and surprising to understand, but I just dealt with it, since it was supposed to controversial and just felt like sharing it here. It's just that inconceivable to me.

And as for the actual topic at hand, I wish that I could add more to this thread... but as for my own controversial opinions go... my latest one was just about me not being all that into the ARG, and perhaps me defending The Slip even though I can understand why some fans just aren't feeling that album in particular.

Oh, and I also thought that the actual physical copies of The Slip could've been a few dollars lower. Perhaps that could count, but that's also hard to argue with since it's also been officially given away for free.

[Volband]

Yes, I was told this for most of my life. I've also been prone to take a lot of things seriously and literally. I also have a tendency to analyze what people say, and of course, if it's not the flaw of taking things personally when I shouldn't, it also is sometimes a problem with me just reading far too much into things. On the bright side, it can help me become more understanding when my emotions aren't blinding me. And well. Now you know a bit more of me.

It also really would show a lot in The Mental Health Thread, The Friendship Thread, and The Relationship Thread, and go figure that somebody like me would end up using Broken, The Downward Spiral, and The Fragile as a form of therapy. (Which is another reason I became addicted to Nine Inch Nails, aside from all of the entertainment factors that were present.)

And well... I hope that I'm supposed to be flattered in some sort of humorous way, as I really didn't expect that type of response in this thread. And when I said that it shook me up, it really was shocking. It's hard for me to even imagine the first ten years of Nine Inch Nails not being among the best, but it's not like I was aggravated or upset. It was just very confusing and surprising to understand, but I just dealt with it, since it was supposed to controversial and just felt like sharing it here. It's just that inconceivable to me.

And as for the actual topic at hand, I wish that I could add more to this thread... but as for my own controversial opinions go... my latest one was just about me not being all that into the ARG, and perhaps me defending The Slip even though I can understand why some fans just aren't feeling that album in particular.

Oh, and I also thought that the actual physical copies of The Slip could've been a few dollars lower. Perhaps that could count, but that's also hard to argue with since it's been also been officially given away for free.
Are you Canadian? That's how I imagine a Canadian controversial NIN opinion.:D

I get you btw, I'm quite sensitive too and can get worked up on things people walks past by everday. That's why I quoted you, I actually felt sad reading your post, while also sympathizing with you. Not on this matter, but I know what it's like. Howewer, you can't really call out anyone, for not feeling the same way, like you do. It's important for you, but even those might not be able to understand your reaction, who thinks the first 10 years were indeed among the best, because they don't have the same emotional connection to it. A guy might've lost someone (talkin' bout death, yo), and he still thinks TDTWWWA is a "meh" song, while you might had a - compared to losing someone like that - minor bad experience in some way, yet you are all out for some songs, or albums. You will never understand how can he be so cold-hearted, and he will never understand how can you get so worked up on a seemingly insignificant thing.

It's actually fine if you can manage your emotional outbursts, it can turn into many positive things, but don't ask me "for example?", because I managed to miss every single opportunity so far, haha. Fuck me!

Time to stalk you on those threads, if you revealed it - maybe it breaks my creative mental block that I'm having right now!

P.S.: controversial NIN opinions thread is the best

[Halo Infinity]

Are you Canadian? That's how I imagine a Canadian controversial NIN opinion.:D
Perhaps I'm just too kind, while also realizing that in regards to some of my other tastes, that I don't really have that much room to talk. If you saw some of the threads I've made in The Musical Revolution section, I'm sure you'd immediately understand. :p

And well, no I'm not Canadian, but I certainly see what you did there. :p (I still wish there was an LOL emoticon here, but this one will have to do yet again.)


I get you btw, I'm quite sensitive too and can get worked up on things people walks past by everday. That's why I quoted you, I actually felt sad reading your post, while also sympathizing with you. Not on this matter, but I know what it's like.
Oh, I see. And yes, I also need to work on dealing with it among other things. It's part of why I've considered taking much needed breaks from ETS and other sites yet again, aside from the fact that sometimes I really do think too much, and not in the good kind of way either.

All the NIN talk about NIN performing The Grammys is what sucked me in here, as I was about to take a hiatus from ETS. However, I doubt that I'd ever leave altogether, but sometimes I just need to take some time alone to chill out, even on the Internet, as it's very easy to socialize on it.


Howewer, you can't really call out anyone, for not feeling the same way, like you do. It's important for you, but even those might not be able to understand your reaction, who thinks the first 10 years were indeed among the best, because they don't have the same emotional connection to it.
Oh, I've definitely considered that, but perhaps it just caught me off guard because I was used to most fans eating up just about every single little thing from Pretty Hate Machine to The Fragile. I didn't really mean to call anybody out though, but it really was that surprising and incomprehensible at the time.


A guy might've lost someone (talkin' bout death, yo), and he still thinks TDTWWWA is a "meh" song, while you might had a - compared to losing someone like that - minor bad experience in some way, yet you are all out for some songs, or albums. You will never understand how can he be so cold-hearted, and he will never understand how can you get so worked up on a seemingly insignificant thing.
Oh yes, I'm definitely aware of that as of now. However, I now can't believe that I forgot to consider that. Thank you for reminding me.


It's actually fine if you can manage your emotional outbursts, it can turn into many positive things, but don't ask me "for example?", because I managed to miss every single opportunity so far, haha. Fuck me!
For me, I think it's more a matter of restraining myself, but I also see what you mean. I've always had a very hard time managing and expressing negative emotions, especially when they're based on sadness, anger, and confusion. I suppose that's why Pretty Hate Machine, Broken, The Downward Spiral, and The Fragile speak to and for me so much whenever I get the chance and have the desire to listen to Nine Inch Nails while sorting negative emotions out.


Time to stalk you on those threads, if you revealed it - maybe it breaks my creative mental block that I'm having right now!
Oh dear goodness. I wish hindsight was always kind and merciful... but yes... there's a huge chunk of embarrassing posts there, but thankfully I didn't actually post anything to actually cause anybody to hate me here. Thank goodness.


P.S.: controversial NIN opinions thread is the best
Dare, I say, I'd have to agree in a way, because I think it's helped further open up my mind on being a NIN fan when it comes to what to expect and what not to expect. And well, your posts aren't bad at all. I can actually agree with you on most of the things you weren't into when it came to NIN in general.

It's all good nonetheless, and thank you for taking the time to understand me even if for just this moment in this thread. :)

[Volband]

All the NIN talk about NIN performing The Grammys is what sucked me in here, as I was about to take a hiatus from ETS. However, I doubt that I'd ever leave altogether, but sometimes I just need to take some time alone to chill out, even on the Internet, as it's very easy to socialize on it.
And that's a problem... why exactly?


Oh, I've definitely considered that, but perhaps it just caught me off guard because I was used to most fans eating up just about every single little thing from Pretty Hate Machine to The Fragile. I didn't really mean to call anybody out though, but it really was that surprising and incomprehensible at the time.
But it shouldn't be the first time you met wth that opinion. There are many who rate With Teeth, Year Zero and now Hesitaion Marks higher than TF or TDS, which basically says the same.[/QUOTE]

I don't consider PHM, TDS and Broken masterpieces either. Sure, when I'm hyping NIN I sprout the same glorious words most of the people here, because I want them to want to listen to it, but lately I don't even introduce TDS. It's way too one-dimensional, With Teeth does a much better job at giving a taste about what NIN really is. The Fragile does an even better, but you just can't expect some newcomer to sit it through and be able to digest it. Broken sounds like shit, and I'm tired of linking the live versions of the Wish/Last/Gave Up trio. PHM - remastered or not - sounds outdated. PHM Terrible Lie or AATCHB Terrible Lie? No contest, two different songs. We're back to With Teeth again - no need for live versions, no need for putting each song into context, just download it and listen to it.

Anyway, the unwritten law is to respect TDS and TF, but I can understand those who don't even like them, but that's the beauty of NIN: you can have a guy to vouch for each album (well, almost... sorry Ghosts) as being the best one, and all of them could bring up great points. I never ever had as much fun in the music world, when I was exploring the NIN-catalog. I had to check numerous times if I had downloaded the right torrent, because the difference between some album and songs were like day and night.



For me, I think it's more a matter of restraining myself, but I also see what you mean. I've always had a very hard time managing and expressing negative emotions, especially when they're based on sadness, anger, and confusion. I suppose that's why Pretty Hate Machine, Broken, The Downward Spiral, and The Fragile speak to and for me so much whenever I get the chance and have the desire to listen to Nine Inch Nails while sorting negative emotions out.
I was actually talking about positive emotions ("On the bright side, it can help me become more understanding when my emotions aren't blinding me"), for me they are much harder to express, or pursue to fulfill them. But talking about negative emotions, a friend of mine recently told me that it was music that helped him through his "dark days" (and he was really down, but took a 180 degree turn), but when do you just drown in the music, and when does it really help? Someone fucked you over, you put in Somewhat Damaged, what now? You can move on? You listen to it again? You cry? You shout? You put in Piggy next, and the very next day rinse and repeat? I don't know. It sure helps releasing the tension, but if it keeps coming back then you didn't really cure it.

You know, it's funny how my story about my 3 months in the capital city at the end of 2013 is reflected by the choices of NIN songs I included on my MP4 player: Hesitation Marks ---> No You Don't, Starfuckers Inc. ---> Satellite, All The Love In The World ---> Me, I'm not, Vessel, Deep, The Perfect Drug, Closer ---> The Fragile (song) ---> You Know What You Are, Gave Up, Getting Smaller, Where Is Everybody ---> God Given, The Wretched. (special shoutout to The Hand That Feeds who's never ever been deleted from my music players since I discovered the song back in 2006)

And you know, these aren't even just give you a general picture; if you know the vibe of the songs, it speaks a lot for itself. Every NIN song could be a topic of discussion for a week (that actually might be an interesting thread idea!), because they are so well put together, and it actually stimulates your brain. Too bad none of my friends are realy into it. It was a damn miracle someone was actually willing to be bombarded with NIN stuff, in order for her to decide whether she would come to the concert or not, with me paying! But I don't do it for myself (or to hook her, she's a friend), I went alone in 2009 and I'd have no problem going there on my own again, but I'd really like if I could give some not only the NIN.experience, but the LIVE NIN.experience, which is just disgustingly good. This might be their very last tour here, so now or never.



Dare, I say, I'd have to agree in a way, because I think it's helped further open up my mind on being a NIN fan when it comes to what to expect and what not to expect. And well, your posts aren't bad at all. I can actually agree with you on most of the things you weren't into when it came to NIN in general.

It's all good nonetheless, and thank you for taking the time to understand me even if for just this moment in this thread. :)
Haha, this thread is like a salvage for people. And I wanted to type something else, but I forgot cuz it's 4 AM. Fuck easy socializations.

[Halo Infinity]

And that's a problem... why exactly?
It's thankfully not that serious, but I sometimes like to take a break from forums and social networking sites. This is pretty much the problem.

http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/2207-cant-put-ETS-down-Support-Group

However, at least the addiction hasn't taken over to the point that it's doing anything seriously damaging to my life in general, but I'd really like to cut down on it a bit. It's more of a personal thing to do with myself.


But it shouldn't be the first time you met wth that opinion. There are many who rate With Teeth, Year Zero and now Hesitaion Marks higher than TF or TDS, which basically says the same.
After seeing so many posts praising The Downward Spiral and The Fragile since 2004, I suppose I just got far too accustomed to it. I don't think I would've ignored those posts either, but I really haven't seen that in the old ETS, and I used to lurk on ETS a lot back then even though I didn't post as much.


I don't consider PHM, TDS and Broken masterpieces either. Sure, when I'm hyping NIN I sprout the same glorious words most of the people here, because I want them to want to listen to it, but lately I don't even introduce TDS. It's way too one-dimensional, With Teeth does a much better job at giving a taste about what NIN really is. The Fragile does an even better, but you just can't expect some newcomer to sit it through and be able to digest it. Broken sounds like shit, and I'm tired of linking the live versions of the Wish/Last/Gave Up trio. PHM - remastered or not - sounds outdated. PHM Terrible Lie or AATCHB Terrible Lie? No contest, two different songs. We're back to With Teeth again - no need for live versions, no need for putting each song into context, just download it and listen to it.
I should know from experience. I've actually seen people find Broken and The Downward Spiral to be very off-putting.


Anyway, the unwritten law is to respect TDS and TF, but I can understand those who don't even like them, but that's the beauty of NIN: you can have a guy to vouch for each album (well, almost... sorry Ghosts) as being the best one, and all of them could bring up great points. I never ever had as much fun in the music world, when I was exploring the NIN-catalog. I had to check numerous times if I had downloaded the right torrent, because the difference between some album and songs were like day and night.
Oh, that I can understand. I can also understand if it doesn't click for them. I suppose it's still partly because I haven't noticed or seen that being a common opinion here before. And well, aside from being an unwritten law, it really is just that easy to find a lot fans admiring the hell out of Nine Inch Nails circa 1989-2000.


I was actually talking about positive emotions ("On the bright side, it can help me become more understanding when my emotions aren't blinding me"), for me they are much harder to express, or pursue to fulfill them. But talking about negative emotions, a friend of mine recently told me that it was music that helped him through his "dark days" (and he was really down, but took a 180 degree turn), but when do you just drown in the music, and when does it really help? Someone fucked you over, you put in Somewhat Damaged, what now? You can move on? You listen to it again? You cry? You shout? You put in Piggy next, and the very next day rinse and repeat? I don't know. It sure helps releasing the tension, but if it keeps coming back then you didn't really cure it.It's not always the case, nor would I only rely on listening to those albums to find solutions in order to resolve my emotional problems. I still see where you're getting at though, since dwelling on problems isn't the way to actually help yourself and move on. This also doesn't always mean that I'm in a bad mood, or subject to a bad mood every time I've used NIN's music to cope. This is part of why I also tend to find time to be alone as I sometimes have that need and desire to recharge, which sometimes leads me to become a bit of a hermit, but I understand that's also not the way to always deal with emotional problems either.

*Oh, and my mistake. I didn't think you were talking about positive emotions at the time.*

This part of this topic definitely goes into The Mental Health thread territory though. I think you might have some interesting input to offer in that thread from the way this particular discussion has been going so far.

http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/2294-The-Mental-Health-thread-depression-bipolar-ADHD-you-name-it


You know, it's funny how my story about my 3 months in the capital city at the end of 2013 is reflected by the choices of NIN songs I included on my MP4 player: Hesitation Marks ---> No You Don't, Starfuckers Inc. ---> Satellite, All The Love In The World ---> Me, I'm not, Vessel, Deep, The Perfect Drug, Closer ---> The Fragile (song) ---> You Know What You Are, Gave Up, Getting Smaller, Where Is Everybody ---> God Given, The Wretched. (special shoutout to The Hand That Feeds who's never ever been deleted from my music players since I discovered the song back in 2006)

And you know, these aren't even just give you a general picture; if you know the vibe of the songs, it speaks a lot for itself. Every NIN song could be a topic of discussion for a week (that actually might be an interesting thread idea!), because they are so well put together, and it actually stimulates your brain. Too bad none of my friends are realy into it. It was a damn miracle someone was actually willing to be bombarded with NIN stuff, in order for her to decide whether she would come to the concert or not, with me paying! But I don't do it for myself (or to hook her, she's a friend), I went alone in 2009 and I'd have no problem going there on my own again, but I'd really like if I could give some not only the NIN.experience, but the LIVE NIN.experience, which is just disgustingly good. This might be their very last tour here, so now or never.
I'd have to completely agree with that too, and that's certainly NIN for you. I like how just about any part of his discography can also be discussed as if it came out yesterday or last week.


Haha, this thread is like a salvage for people. And I wanted to type something else, but I forgot cuz it's 4 AM. Fuck easy socializations.
Oh yes, I've also been there way too much myself, especially on ETS. :p

[tony.parente]

It was embarassing as a NIN fan to have to endure the teasing from friends about Trent having a hissy fit about the Grammys, especially since they were right.

[Volband]

It's not always the case, nor would I only rely on listening to those albums to find solutions in order to resolve my emotional problems. I still see where you're getting at though, since dwelling on problems isn't the way to actually help yourself and move on. This also doesn't always mean that I'm in a bad mood, or subject to a bad mood every time I've used NIN's music to cope. This is part of why I also tend to find time to be alone as I sometimes have that need and desire to recharge, which sometimes leads me to become a bit of a hermit, but I understand that's also not the way to always deal with emotional problems either.

*Oh, and my mistake. I didn't think you were talking about positive emotions at the time.*

This part of this topic definitely goes into The Mental Health thread territory though. I think you might have some interesting input to offer in that thread from the way this particular discussion has been going so far.

http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/2294-The-Mental-Health-thread-depression-bipolar-ADHD-you-name-it
It's cool, emotions are fucking confusing, and it's just great to pop in a song or two to make it clear. It doesn't have to be a cure or anything.

I'm quite sure I won't post there, because I had the "opportunity" to grow up with a parent with chronic depression, and imo people are way too kind there. If no one is slapped in the face then I have a 100+1 stories how you all might end up. Blind people will only lead other blind people to the wall, even with the best intentions. The first step is definetly getting it out there, but as I'm skimming through the topic, the majority of the posters are stuck there. Reading some of your posts there, my very first advice would be to go to the gym, preferably starting from yesterday. 1. It's a test for you. If you can't get yourself to go - spare me from the excuses -, then visit a doctor. 2. You'll feel better about yourself (eventually, at the very least), get tired, which results in less ETS refreshes and less thinking about stuff you are posting in that thread. 3. No matter how you look right now, you WILL look better, which - again - results in jolly, laughing happy hormones with some added social benefits, depending on your results.

Also, change your NIN playlist to include songs like Meet Your Master, Big Man With A Gun, Mr. Self Destruct, Starfuckers Inc., My Violent Heart, The Hand That Feeds, Closer; songs that make you feel powerful. Yes, I realize that half of these are about the protagonist of the song suffering, but who cares: the guy singing Closer is just as happy as fucked up, while the guy singing And All That Could Have been or That's What I get is just a wreck.[/QUOTE]

It was embarassing as a NIN fan to have to endure the teasing from friends about Trent having a hissy fit about the Grammys, especially since they were right.
See, no one giving a shit about NIN around you have it's benefits! They might only hear about them playing at the Grammys without knowing that Trent turned into a hypocrite, then made an idiot about himself with that tweet. They'd be like "woow, that NIN of yours played at the Grammys?? Maaan, that's cooool!". Hahaha, yeah!

[Volband]

Ah, I've been meaning to ask this here:

If you had to answer with your minds only, knowing your take on this question would never ever ever surface, what would you answer to the "Did Trent copy Bowie with A Warm Place?" question? Pure hyphotetically, of course, since I'm not actually asking it. Or I should say, what does your friend thinks about it?

[Conan The Barbarian]

He came out saying he did by accident.

[sheepdean]

Yeah he literally apologised to Bowie on camera for doing it by mistake

[Volband]

And here I thought I knew ninwiki by heart... well, sorry then. At least I can sleep well at nights, knowing Trent would never do such a thing consciously.

Except with Down In It, but Dig It sucked anyway.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

but Dig It sucked anyway.
Nuh-uh.

.

[Halo Infinity]

It's cool, emotions are fucking confusing, and it's just great to pop in a song or two to make it clear. It doesn't have to be a cure or anything.

I'm quite sure I won't post there, because I had the "opportunity" to grow up with a parent with chronic depression, and imo people are way too kind there. If no one is slapped in the face then I have a 100+1 stories how you all might end up. Blind people will only lead other blind people to the wall, even with the best intentions.I think that's all I need to see to understand why you wouldn't want to post there at all. And yes, sometimes it really is the blind leading the blind. I've also been around arrogant, obnoxious, and entitlement-minded complainers that emotionally and mentally poisoned me, so all that negativity can weigh down on me regardless of how high or low they perceive themselves. (So I don't really blame people for even wanting to be around depressed people in those cases. I was just using that as an example.) I don't see how hurting depressed people helps though, as it could actually encourage people to commit suicide or do something just as bad, or even worse.

(However, I do understand that sometimes we all need that push, even if it does hurt, considering how the truth and reality isn't always pleasant altogether, and that wallowing in it can also destroy you from the inside and out.)


The first step is definetly getting it out there, but as I'm skimming through the topic, the majority of the posters are stuck there. Reading some of your posts there, my very first advice would be to go to the gym, preferably starting from yesterday. 1. It's a test for you. If you can't get yourself to go - spare me from the excuses -, then visit a doctor. 2. You'll feel better about yourself (eventually, at the very least), get tired, which results in less ETS refreshes and less thinking about stuff you are posting in that thread. 3. No matter how you look right now, you WILL look better, which - again - results in jolly, laughing happy hormones with some added social benefits, depending on your results.
You're definitely not the first person to tell me this, and you certainly won't be the last. And yes, that's also all undeniably true.


Also, change your NIN playlist to include songs like Meet Your Master, Big Man With A Gun, Mr. Self Destruct, Starfuckers Inc., My Violent Heart, The Hand That Feeds, Closer; songs that make you feel powerful. Yes, I realize that half of these are about the protagonist of the song suffering, but who cares: the guy singing Closer is just as happy as fucked up, while the guy singing And All That Could Have been or That's What I get is just a wreck.Luckily enough, those also happen to be among my favorite songs.


See, no one giving a shit about NIN around you have it's benefits! They might only hear about them playing at the Grammys without knowing that Trent turned into a hypocrite, then made an idiot about himself with that tweet. They'd be like "woow, that NIN of yours played at the Grammys?? Maaan, that's cooool!". Hahaha, yeah!
My thoughts exactly, and whenever I actually had those few chances to speak about NIN with actual NIN fans in real life, none of those conversations ever went as crazy as the ones I've seen here. I also hope you got me, and also hope that I got you right as well. :p

[Volband]

Nuh-uh.

.
It did, and I always wondered how could something mediocore as Skinny Puppy inspire such good music as NIN. Then again, the whole "suck Gary Numan's and the other folks dick" in ETS has always been repulsive for me. I like elitism, but when I read about them, I can't help but imagine all the NIN folks pretending to be billionaires drinking their expensive wine, while talking about bands like this, because it's like cool, or I dunno.

I could've just used the word pretentious, but that's not offensive enough. And yes, it's a controversial NIN opinion, because I see it among NINers. Let this post be your facepalm magnet, guys!

[Volband]

I don't see how hurting depressed people helps though, as it could actually encourage people to commit suicide or do something just as bad, or even worse.

(However, I do understand that sometimes we all need that push, even if it does hurt, considering how the truth and reality isn't always pleasant altogether, and that wallowing in it can also destroy you from the inside and out.)
You know that really pretty girl from high-school, who did fucking retarded things, right? The ones who wanted to fuck her, cheered her on, the ones whom you could call friends told her she's an idiot. In a nutshell, that's how it is with that depression thread - not true for every case, sure. "You feel weak? Cool, I feel weak too, we should feel weak together! You have suicide thoughts many times, and you also play out "I guess it's my childhood" jolly joker card whenever you can? It's ok, keep doing, I do it as well!"

Finding comfort and trust is very important, and you won't get that from someone who shouts "GET THE FUCK UP" to your face. But in the end, you need someone - could be you yourself - to shout it to your face. You know what made me stop pointless whining (well I only whined for myself for 98% of the times, but that's still whining) like some of the posts in that thread? When I see people in much, MUCH more big of a shithole than I am, but they are doing everything they can.[/QUOTE]



You're definitely not the first person to tell me this, and you certainly won't be the last. And yes, that's also all undeniably true.
That wasn't a yes. Also, people who might offer you help - like real help, not just giving comfort, so you can keep doing the same destructive stuff that made you search for such a comfort in the first place - will eventually just not care. I mean, would I break every sweat possible to make you convince to go to the gym? No, especially not after you just said you've been told that many times. You see, that's why I don't go to a thread with will full of depressive people. Trying to help them actually takes a toll on you, because they just never do anything - again, there are exceptions -, and that's just fuck you up.

Not everyone as lucky as Reznor, to dance with Death and return from it wiser.

[Halo Infinity]

That wasn't a yes.
I meant yes, as in yes, I agree with you. Whether I, or any of us like it or not, that's just the truth. You don't progress, and find any solutions by not doing anything about your problems. And it's not even just the things you've already mentioned, as it also has to do with a lot of other things as well. And well, I've also had my share of unsolicited advice from people that meant well, but were also assholes to me at the same time, and it didn't really help me, so it could work either way. I'd also even agree that it's pointless to help people that actively refuse to even help themselves on their own volition.

(As for trust and forgiveness, I've always had problems with being trusting and forgiving to others, which is why I've sometimes distanced and isolated myself from other people to start with, but that's like a whole other topic of discussion again right there. It's also one of the hugest reasons as to why I try my best to not get on anybody's bad side. It also seems like trust has a huge connection and overall relation to forgiveness as well.)

Granted, I know I'm a piece of work, and know I have things in general to work on, as that's life from time to time. Besides, at the end of the day, I need to realize that I'm really only doing this for me, and that I can only do this for me, and this pretty much goes back to everything you just said.


Not everyone as lucky as Reznor, to dance with Death and return from it wiser.
Exactly, and that's another reason why his life-story should've been an eye-opener to me as well.

[Louie_Cypher]

Can you two fun-boy's get a room...;)
-Louie

[Halo Infinity]

Sorry about that. I knew people were obviously going to notice, and I feel bad for not contributing to the actual topic. And well, besides, I really should stay out of this thread anyway, as I don't have any controversial Nine Inch Nails opinions to offer at the time being, and will hopefully never ever have any again. :p

[icecream]

Safe to say Trent has heard that parody song? I wonder how upset by it he is?

[m15a]

Safe to say Trent has heard that parody song? I wonder how upset by it he is?

i'm guessing somewhere between marginally and not at all. but who knows . . .

[icecream]

i'm guessing somewhere between marginally and not at all. but who knows . . .
Yeah, too bad he doesn't take to Twitter as much as he did before.

[r_z]

what would you answer to the "Did Trent copy Bowie with A Warm Place?" question?

Of course he did. Not even by mistake. You don't just produce a song for hours/days in the studio without noticing such a thing. It's cool he apologised to Bowie, but I don't buy into this whole "by mistake" he was trying to sell.

[snaapz]

NINs most recent albums just don't get my blood flowing as much as some of the earlier albums.

Note: Demon Seed is gold and a few trax off YZ are pure power. I don't dislike the music by any means, I'll just admit that I would like some hard, raw, live studio songs. Hard Rock.. even dip slightly into metal.

[m15a]

Of course he did. Not even by mistake. You don't just produce a song for hours/days in the studio without noticing such a thing. It's cool he apologised to Bowie, but I don't buy into this whole "by mistake" he was trying to sell.

The reason I don't think it was on purpose is: what's the benefit to Trent of copying a melody? It's not the same thing as sampling a part of a popular song where the reference and transformation adds to the appeal. Either people will recognize the melody and be somewhat annoyed or they won't and it won't really make a difference. It's not like writing a melody is hard. If Trent wanted to copy the song, it would make much more sense to not copy the melody and just copy the other aspects (like you sometimes get in commercials and things like that).

Also, I don't think it's true that working hard on your own piece will make you realize that it's a copy of another piece. You get more and more used to your piece sounding how it does, so you're less likely to recognize it. You need someone else to come in with a fresh set of ears.* What may have happened is that someone noticed the similarity and Trent decided to ignore it. But it's also possible that no one noticed since probably not that large a group listened to the track in progress (not people that would actually make comments to Trent).

* I have first hand experience with this, btw. Made a piece, played it for a bunch of people. Then, a year later someone mentioned that part sounded just like the the X-Files theme . . . Not so much that it would be considered copying, but just enough to be annoying.

[r_z]

I'm not sure, A Warm Place is a copy of the same melody. I filed it under rather being a copy of the mood and arrangement of Bowies piece. Why did he decide to copy it? Maybe he thought a song like that would fit the album's sequence, so he produced it. You could also see it as an homage, I guess. Trents an avid Bowie fan, so he knew exactly what he was doing.

[sheepdean]

I'm not sure, A Warm Place is a copy of the same melody. I filed it under rather being a copy of the mood and arrangement of Bowies piece. Why did he decide to copy it? Maybe he thought a song like that would fit the album's sequence, so he produced it. You could also see it as an homage, I guess. Trents an avid Bowie fan, so he knew exactly what he was doing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0RQCT69y5s&feature=player_embedded

I believe him tbh, though I'd happily call bullshit on "didn't know it was the Tate house" and certain other things he's said.

[r_z]

I know that clip and I don't want to call him a liar, but he certainly has a history of inventing narratives for the public.

[Volband]

Heresy is a boring track overall.

Hurt (album version) is nearly unlistenable thanks to the distortion effects.

[eversonpoe]

Heresy is a boring track overall.

Hurt (album version) is nearly unlistenable thanks to the distortion effects.

what makes it boring, to you? (not being confrontational, being conversational)

which distortion effects do you mean? on the guitars during the chorus?

[sheepdean]

I kinda agree about Hurt, Hurt (Quiet) is just so much better

[BRoswell]

I honestly don't think there's much of a difference between the two to really say that one is better than the other. Aside from slightly less distortion and the beginning and end shortened, it's pretty much the same song. It's basically like comparing radio edits to the album versions. Not saying you can't compare and contrast the two, but it seems kind of pointless in my opinion.

[Volband]

what makes it boring, to you? (not being confrontational, being conversational)

which distortion effects do you mean? on the guitars during the chorus?
It starts out strong, pumps you up, just like Ruiner for example, but it just leaves you hangin'. I can't stand to listen to "your god is dead, and no one cares [...]", because that chorus wasn't interesting (musically) to begin with, and it's especially not when you hear it for the 6th time during the same song. Heresy is like THTF or CBH without being catchy or dancy; it has everything your typical mainstream music has (verse-chorus-verse-chorus-solo-pumped up chorus), but it still tries to be "TDS-ish", which is just not possible (no, even Closer is not that mainstream). The only songs on TDS which have the same structure are Mr. Self Destruct and Reptile, but MrSD takes you from the start, has an interesting solo part, and its' chorus is much digestable (probably thanks to being faster), which actually makes you want to listen to the song again, while Reptile has its' own vibe. You either love the album version of Reptile, or just barely ever listen to it, like me, but I can still appreciate that version. It's somewhat like Closer.

Howewer, with Heresy, when I reach the first chorus I feel like I'm listening to the song for the 1000000000000000000000000th time. It striked me yesterday, when I decided not to skip Heresy after a year, and I'm the guy who probably will never be tired of THTF, but it just doesn't work. It's not angry enough (unlike Ruiner), it's not catchy enough (unlike THTF), it's not dancy enough (unlike Discipline), it just says "fuck religion" which always been a controversial statement, so it remains relevant, because there's not many NIN tack that defies God this openly, so I can see how this could be the go-to song for some people. Still, other NIN songs mentioning God are much much deeper and emotional, Heresy is bleeding heavily on the lyrics-department as well. Being blunt did wonders for Closer, but for Heresy, well, it's like a one hit wonder. First you have a big grin how cool and funny Trent is ("if there is a hell/I see you there"), then you listen to The Wretched or Terrible Lie, and you realize how it should've been done.

Edit: also, it fails being "TDS-ish". The Becoming, IDNWT, Piggy, just to name a few are all unique in a way. What can Heresy show up?

About Hurt, I didn't even realize how screwed the original version was until I saw Hurt (Quiet) on the deluxe edition. I was like "why is it quiet? it's almost the quitest song on the album already", and it turns out that the vocals on the original version are actually mildly distorted, which is fuuuuuuucking annoying once you realize it. People complain about the filter in RWIB, well, it's way way way worse. It actually irrates my ears, which the last thing I want from a song, especially from one that should put you in the mood.

[BRoswell]

People complain about the filter in RWIB, well, it's way way way worse. It actually irrates my ears, which the last thing I want from a song, especially from one that should put you in the mood.

Are we listening to the same song? I'm pretty sure the vocals on Right Where It Belongs are MUCH more processed than the vocals on Hurt.

[Volband]

Are we listening to the same song? I'm pretty sure the vocals on Right Where It Belongs are MUCH more processed than the vocals on Hurt.
They are, but they are listenable without getting a headache. Being annoying for your conscious that it would've been much better without the processing (RWIB) and something ripping your ears apart (Hurt) are two very different things.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

I’m sensitive to the same stuff Volband is talking about. Much as I understand the reasons for it, the distortion in Hurt is enough to distract me from what I like about the song, so I play (Quiet) instead.

The bigger problem for me is the end of TDS (the song). With all the bass filtered out, it doesn’t have the impact I think it should — but maybe that was the whole idea. Plus it’s tough to listen to on headphones.

The fuzz in RWIB is easier to live with. If you restrict yourself to v2, you’re missing too much of the texture.

[piggy]

Does anyone else find the ending of "Closer To God" to be almost unbearable? I love that track to bits, but the way the cacophony builds and builds at the very end is almost too intense. I can tell that it's meant to be that way and it's actually kind of cool that they found a way to push your listening to its absolute limits like that, but damn.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

Does anyone else find the ending of "Closer To God" to be almost unbearable? I love that track to bits, but the way the cacophony builds and builds at the very end is almost too intense. I can tell that it's meant to be that way and it's actually kind of cool that they found a way to push your listening to its absolute limits like that, but damn.
I can survive that only because I have all of my music going through a reverb filter to fight the “inside your head” effect of headphones. Otherwise the way the sound breaks up at the very end would make my teeth explode. (Ow.)

Sometimes I think TR never listens to his stuff through headphones. Obviously he has less sensitive teeth…

[eversonpoe]

Does anyone else find the ending of "Closer To God" to be almost unbearable? I love that track to bits, but the way the cacophony builds and builds at the very end is almost too intense. I can tell that it's meant to be that way and it's actually kind of cool that they found a way to push your listening to its absolute limits like that, but damn.

i love it. but i also listen to throbbing gristle pretty regularly.

[Volband]

The bigger problem for me is the end of TDS (the song). With all the bass filtered out, it doesn’t have the impact I think it should — but maybe that was the whole idea. Plus it’s tough to listen to on headphones.
Yeah, until the Wave Goodbye tour I didn't even consider TDS a song, when in reality, it would be awesome without the filter.

[darksiren82]

...when I decided not to skip Heresy after a year...

Wow, and I thought I was the only one here. I've skipped it consistently for 15 years. And I agree with you on the lyrical content. However, I had a female buddy in high school who sang the song to me (yes, she did) and that might have been the only time I found it palatable.

[m15a]

I can survive that only because I have all of my music going through a reverb filter to fight the “inside your head” effect of headphones. Otherwise the way the sound breaks up at the very end would make my teeth explode. (Ow.)

curious how you do this. is there an "app" (or program on the computer) for that? or do you use, like, a dedicated processor on your home system?

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

curious how you do this. is there an "app" (or program on the computer) for that? or do you use, like, a dedicated processor on your home system?
It’s a very roundabout thing that I stumbled upon by accident. OS X has a built-in set of audio filters for programs like GarageBand to use, and a couple of programs by Rogue Amoeba (http://rogueamoeba.com) (Audio Hijack Pro and Nicecast) can apply them in real time to the audio passing through the system.

As if that’s not obscure enough for you, I ended up tinkering with a combo of two Matrix Reverb filters to get my pseudo-crossfeed effect — thanks to the reverb, audio from one channel bleeds into the other, which is how you get the sound field outside your head.

(A bonus of using reverb to do this is that everything sounds like it’s coming out of big-ass speakers in a concert hall.)

There’s a commercial thing called Dolby Headphone (http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/technology/home-theater/dolby-headphone.html) that does this sort of crossfeed (but without the reverb). I heard it in a Windows DVD player app years ago and became obsessed with it. My duct-tape version is the only one I know of that isn’t limited to certain media players or audio hardware, aside from having a Mac.

[Copy of A]

Trents lost it

[sheepdean]

Trents lost it
That's a big book, how did he misplace it

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

Trents lost it
What brings that on?

[aggroculture]

Multiple Trents? As in the various copies he is of himself?

[BRoswell]

I think he meant to say "Trent slots it". I had no idea he had a gambling problem.

[Copy of A]

Trent has no more talent

[BRoswell]

Trent is a ham sandwich.

[m15a]

I feel like Copy of A (the user) is a very specific chat bot programmed to state random opinions about NIN.

[Ryan]

Trent can put his ham in my sandwich.

[BRoswell]

Trent can put his ham in my sandwich.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uOvKMFK3f0

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

I feel like Copy of A (the user) is a very specific chat bot programmed to state random opinions about NIN.
Does seem more Random than Controversial.

[Halo Infinity]

I think he meant to say "Trent slots it". I had no idea he had a gambling problem.

http://godgiven.ytmnd.com/ :p

[howdidislipinto]

I posted about my distaste for Broken in this thread a while back, and how I feel it's really the only spot of weakness in the NIN catalog. In my opinion the songwriting just isn't there like it is on every other album, with the exception of Happiness In Slavery and Gave Up. It's a boring punch in the face, gets discussed/referenced far more than it deserves, and to me has always represented what non-NIN fans think NIN is, not what NIN actually is. Anyway, I think Trent's thoughts in the Quietus interview (http://thequietus.com/articles/14600-trent-reznor-interview-coil-nine-inch-nails) from today really summed up why Broken just doesn't feel right.

Trent's controversial NIN opinion...


"Well if I look at my catalogue, I see Pretty Hate Machine, which is a pop album with bits of noise, and at the time felt quite daring to me. Broken was a reaction to that. You know: "I'm not a pussy! I'm not a pop guy!" Which probably lent an air of insincerity to it. In all honesty it was more reactive than coming from a place that was pure. But on Downward Spiral, that's where I found my footing and started to become more me, I think."

[Vertigo]

I think Broken's a work of absolute brilliance personally, but I'm very rarely in the mood to listen to it these days. I respect it more than I love it right now.

[WorzelG]

I posted about my distaste for Broken in this thread a while back, and how I feel it's really the only spot of weakness in the NIN catalog. In my opinion the songwriting just isn't there like it is on every other album, with the exception of Happiness In Slavery and Gave Up. It's a boring punch in the face, gets discussed/referenced far more than it deserves, and to me has always represented what non-NIN fans think NIN is, not what NIN actually is. Anyway, I think Trent's thoughts in the Quietus interview (http://thequietus.com/articles/14600-trent-reznor-interview-coil-nine-inch-nails) from today really summed up why Broken just doesn't feel right.

Trent's controversial NIN opinion...
And yet out of the ten shows I've seen, from nintourhistory, Wish has been played at 9 of them, the most, followed by Hurt, Gave Up and March of the Pigs at 8 (head like a hole as only at 7 and Closer at 6).

[martin_b]

IMHO "Copy of A" live version from Festivals 2013 tour is much more better than the version played during the Tension 2013 tour.

Besides the fact that Pino did an extraordinary work in "Sanctified", I still prefer the Festivals 2013 tour version. :-)

[howdidislipinto]

And yet out of the ten shows I've seen, from nintourhistory, Wish has been played at 9 of them, the most, followed by Hurt, Gave Up and March of the Pigs at 8 (head like a hole as only at 7 and Closer at 6).

Hey man, it's Trent's quote, take it up with him. ;)

...in all seriousness though, I know you're right, and I've never understood why he still plays tracks like Wish. I know some people think Hurt or HLAH or MOTP should retire because everyone has seen it -- I disagree. Every show is someone's first, and every band has staples. But Wish? Sometimes I think he does it for the exact same reasons he describes for why he put out Broken. Street cred? Easy way to rile the crowd up again after playing the more mellow songs? That does seem to always be its position in the setlist. And damn, it always brings out the assholes too. The pit could even contribute to why I don't like Broken... the same bro-y assholes that behave shittily are the ones I picture claiming Broken as their favourite NIN release.

It's not the heaviness, by the way -- I love when NIN is heavy. Broken is just such a dumb, simple heavy.

[WorzelG]

^^^i agree with you about why Wish is played, the last two shows I saw were Sonisphere and Reading festivals, both of which had weird setlists that happened to include Wish as a contrast to mellow stuff (sonisphere) or as a run of heavier songs (reading).

[m15a]

...in all seriousness though, I know you're right, and I've never understood why he still plays tracks like Wish. I know some people think Hurt or HLAH or MOTP should retire because everyone has seen it -- I disagree. Every show is someone's first, and every band has staples. But Wish?

thing is that different fans have different ideas of what are the important staple songs and which are not important. you know there has to be some first time fans that would be like "no Wish? i could do without HLAH, though." as far as people in the pit, HLAH, MOTP and Wish seem about equal from my experience.

it's totally fine that you don't like Broken, but it does sound like you're assigning more negativity to it because you don't like it. I mean, you don't know that Wish is being played just to get people riled up and you don't know that bro-y people like Broken the best. Point is that there are fans that like the album and appreciate it playing live that aren't doing so for "dumb" reasons.

I considered Broken my favorite NIN release for a while (note that I didn't count the bonus tracks as really part of the release and I was scaling for length). Although I'm not sure what it means exactly, I feel pretty safe in saying that I'm not bro-y. I definitely wasn't drawn to it because of its "cred" or image since I hadn't heard it until after I was a fan of TDS and PHM, and didn't know what NIN was about outside of those albums and the Hurt video.

[BenAkenobi]

I really don't (want to) know what's so great about Trent and tambourine and why is everyone and their uncle wet their pants when they see it in action.

[WorzelG]

I really don't (want to) know what's so great about Trent and tambourine and why is everyone and their uncle wet their pants when they see it in action.

Exhibit A : perfect tambourine toss at about 3.49

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmULtDnBw7E

Exhibit B : I find it difficult to listen to Cars without the tambourine as heard in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qlUFKFHNIU

The sound always seems to be crystal clear

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

...in all seriousness though, I know you're right, and I've never understood why he still plays tracks like Wish. I know some people think Hurt or HLAH or MOTP should retire because everyone has seen it -- I disagree. Every show is someone's first, and every band has staples. But Wish? Sometimes I think he does it for the exact same reasons he describes for why he put out Broken.
Also have to consider the possibility that he still identifies with the song personally. Could be the anger, the sentiment, the fist fuck — who knows?

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

I really don't (want to) know what's so great about Trent and tambourine and why is everyone and their uncle wet their pants when they see it in action.
Do not diss The Holy.

[Volband]

Also have to consider the possibility that he still identifies with the song personally. Could be the anger, the sentiment, the fist fuck — who knows?
How could anyone with two children and a loving, beautiful wife identify himself with a song like Wish? He might get into a state, where he sings Wish as a tribute to those old, hard days, but by that logic he could play every song.

[howdidislipinto]

Also have to consider the possibility that he still identifies with the song personally. Could be the anger, the sentiment, the fist fuck — who knows?

It's definitely a possibility, but him deeming Broken as somewhat dishonest goes against that, as do his usual comments at the beginning of every tour about wanting to move away from certain things. Yet, clearly, he keeps going back to it. So you definitely could be right.

Aside from my opinion of the song itself, I definitely get a little awkward cringe every time I see NIN live and he's forced to say, "26 years, on my way to hell," twenty years later.

[WorzelG]

It's definitely a possibility, but him deeming Broken as somewhat dishonest goes against that, as do his usual comments at the beginning of every tour about wanting to move away from certain things. Yet, clearly, he keeps going back to it. So you definitely could be right.

Aside from my opinion of the song itself, I definitely get a little awkward cringe every time I see NIN live and he's forced to say, "26 years, on my way to hell," twenty years later.
Maybe he should update it to '47 years on my way to hell'

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

It's definitely a possibility, but him deeming Broken as somewhat dishonest goes against that, as do his usual comments at the beginning of every tour about wanting to move away from certain things.
He’s not the first artist to have contradictory feelings about his own work. Ask him the same question a week later and you might get something else altogether.


Aside from my opinion of the song itself, I definitely get a little awkward cringe every time I see NIN live and he's forced to say, "26 years, on my way to hell," twenty years later.
That could be an argument for him not identifying with it. ;)

[simonn]

Besides the fact that Pino did an extraordinary work in "Sanctified", I still prefer the Festivals 2013 tour version. :-)

You win for having the wrongest opinion to date in this thread, according to me. The Pino version is pure sex and groove. Who knew someone that straight-looking could produce something that sexy!

[nimh]

rarely do i post but i have to say i cannot handle the two ladies hes got on his tour. ruins the sound.

[sheepdean]

rarely do i post but i have to say i cannot handle the two ladies hes got on his tour. ruins the sound.
I assume you mean last tour. Or you've been confused by Ally's hair

[AlanMorlock]

I know that clip and I don't want to call him a liar, but he certainly has a history of inventing narratives for the public.

Trent agrees haha

Int the context of your post, the end of this quote made me laugh.


at that point I was living in the Sharon Tate house recordingDownward Spiral. And as stupid as it sounds now, that genuinely wasn't a case of, "What's the most ridiculously extreme thing I can do to get attention?" Flood and I were looking for a place in New Orleans to record in, but we couldn't find anywhere that was right. The only houses we could find that were cool were in residential areas, and we didn't want to spend ages soundproofing a house, and we knew we were going to be making loud music in the middle of the night. Jimmy Iovine from Interscope said, "Why don't you come over to LA? I'll set up ten houses for you to look at and you choose one." We hadn't really spent any time in LA so we went for it. We looked at eight or nine houses that day and that house was the perfect place. It had a beautiful view, it was up on a hill, it was a small ranch house. It had a cool vibe, honestly. I wasn't thinking about Charles Manson - I mean why would I be?
Anyway, that night I told a friend where we were thinking of renting, and he said, "You know - that's where those Manson murders took place." Like anyone else my age those murders had freaked me out when I was younger but I hadn't thought of them in years. He had a copy of a book on them at his house, so we started leafing through it. I thought, "Well, it kind of looks familiar." But then I saw a picture of a ladder leading up into the loft - the ladder I had just climbed that day to see what was up there. I was like, "Oh my God, that is that house." And when he asked if I was still going to rent the place I said, "Fuck yeah, we gotta rent that house." Not realising that it would be the narrative for the next 20 years.

[ethan829]

I think Year Zero is slowly becoming my favorite NIN album. Was just rating songs in my iTunes library and I don't think it has a single "weak" song.

[martin_b]

You win for having the wrongest opinion to date in this thread, according to me. The Pino version is pure sex and groove. Who knew someone that straight-looking could produce something that sexy!

Well, I agree that Pino version is better than Josh. What's more: it's brilliant.

But still I prefer Josh version as IMHO it's more "raw" and "organic" (in a positive "TF-related-way"). But Josh version has one "defect": there is no Sunspots ending. :-(

[Ryan]

I think Year Zero is slowly becoming my favorite NIN album. Was just rating songs in my iTunes library and I don't think it has a single "weak" song.

God Given and Survivalism do nothing for me. The rest is gold though.

[martin_b]

God Given and Survivalism do nothing for me. The rest is gold though.

Well, God Given and Survivalism are not so bad (in my case), but I know what you feel about these songs because I have the same situation in case of 1,000,000 and Letting You.

[Ryan]

Well, God Given and Survivalism are not so bad (in my case), but I know what you feel about these songs because I have the same situation in case of 1,000,000 and Letting You.

I really dislike Letting You but love 1,000,000.

[simonn]

Well, I agree that Pino version is better than Josh. What's more: it's brilliant.

But still I prefer Josh version as IMHO it's more "raw" and "organic" (in a positive "TF-related-way"). But Josh version has one "defect": there is no Sunspots ending. :-(

Gotta love Sunspots...!!

[simonn]

God Given and Survivalism do nothing for me. The rest is gold though.

I always skip Another Version of The Truth, and often Survivalism. Rest of it is great though.

[BenAkenobi]

God Given and Survivalism do nothing for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbDv2xfgEac

[hani]

God Given is fucking awesome. Survivalism is really good but it becomes ridiculously epic live.

+ I recently learned to appreciate Letting You, I used to skip that track when listening to TS but now I really enjoy it.

[Charmingly Miserable]

I'm gonna be a buzzkill here and say that YZ is my least favorite NIN album.

[katara]

I'm gonna be a buzzkill here and say that YZ is my least favorite NIN album.
Some of it's really great. The Good Soldier, Vessel, Me, I'm Not, My Violent Heart, and the last five songs are all unbelievably awesome. I actually cried the first time the album ended because I was so blown away.
For me, some parts are hit-or-miss. I'm not a fan of TBOTE (too repetitive), Capital G (wtf vocals), God Given, and Meet Your Master. I won't say I've never enjoyed those songs, but I have to be in the right mood or they get skipped.

One of my big nit-picks about Year Zero is the way it's *just* an album. I was hoping for far more snippets of things from the ARG and the world it supposedly came from. Morse code in AVOTT and Red Horse Vector are fine, but very subliminal. I was kind of hoping the album would have more of a sound collage approach, perhaps with segues like the Star Chamber or ballgameOver. You know, like Bowie's Outside album.

[WorzelG]

^^^i love the Outside album, but all those baby grace / mr touch shriek interludes I find embarrassing to listen to

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

One of my big nit-picks about Year Zero is the way it's *just* an album. I was hoping for far more snippets of things from the ARG and the world it supposedly came from. Morse code in AVOTT and Red Horse Vector are fine, but very subliminal. I was kind of hoping the album would have more of a sound collage approach, perhaps with segues like the Star Chamber or ballgameOver. You know, like Bowie's Outside album.
Mmm, I dunno about that. A good concept album is one thing; being beat over the head with the concept (even if it’s not embarrassing to listen to) is another. I think the ARG was kept separate for a reason — people like me who were oblivious at the time aren’t going to get the same value from a few scattered references.

If the TV series ever happens, that’s the place to flesh it out.

[fillow]

ARG ruined Year Zero in a way.
Good luck finding any Year Zero review in the media which is focused on actual music and not on surroundings.

Then again, it was pretty much the same with With Teeth (sobriety), Ghosts/The Slip (distribution models), Hesitation Marks (soundtracks/Oscars/bringing NIN back from hiatus), so maybe I'm wrong.

[hani]

ARG ruined Year Zero in way.
Good luck finding any Year Zero review in the media which is focused on actual music and not on surroundings.

Then again, it was pretty much the same with With Teeth (sobriety), Ghosts/The Slip (distribution models), Hesitation Marks (soundtracks/Oscars/bringing NIN back from hiatus), so maybe I'm wrong.

any good album review would put the reviewed work in context, since context is virtually everything considering art

[katara]

ARG ruined Year Zero in way.
Good luck finding any Year Zero review in the media which is focused on actual music and not on surroundings.

Then again, it was pretty much the same with With Teeth (sobriety), Ghosts/The Slip (distribution models), Hesitation Marks (soundtracks/Oscars/bringing NIN back from hiatus), so maybe I'm wrong.
Do you really think the media cares about the music? All they're interested in is sensationalism.

[Inkë]

I want the facepalm button.

[HurtinMinorKey]

any good album review would put the reviewed work in context, since context is virtually everything considering art

Like this one,

http://www.allmusic.com/album/year-zero-mw0000746951

the first paragraph is context, but the rest of the review is pretty darn good.

[simonn]

TDS probably has my highest skip rate of songs on a NIN album - Eraser (dull), I Do Not Want This (weird song, and not in a good way - though loved it live at Sonisphere oddly, Ilans drums, I think), Big Man (love aggressive music, but this just leaves me cold).

[nin5in]

I always skip Another Version of The Truth, and often Survivalism. Rest of it is great though.
I always skip Corona Radiata and Letting You. They're good, but I'm just not feeling them.

[HurtinMinorKey]

I am not excited by the NIN-Soundgarden tour. It just feels too much like Aging-Rocker Tour 2014.

[screwdriver]

ARG ruined Year Zero in a way.
Good luck finding any Year Zero review in the media which is focused on actual music and not on surroundings.

Then again, it was pretty much the same with With Teeth (sobriety), Ghosts/The Slip (distribution models), Hesitation Marks (soundtracks/Oscars/bringing NIN back from hiatus), so maybe I'm wrong.

to be fair to the media, with With Teeth, TR put the sobriety spin front and center on selling that album.

[thevoid99]

I am not excited by the NIN-Soundgarden tour. It just feels too much like Aging-Rocker Tour 2014.

Same here. I love NIN but I'm not going to waste my money dealing w/ Soundgarden fans.

[GulDukat]

I am not excited by the NIN-Soundgarden tour. It just feels too much like Aging-Rocker Tour 2014.

I can't think of a single contemporary rock band that's anywhere near as good as Soundgarden. Just because these bands have been around for a whole doesn't mean that it's bad that they are touring together. If a NIN/Soundgarden tour was a good idea in 1994, it's a good idea in 2014.

[Charmingly Miserable]

I am not excited by the NIN-Soundgarden tour. It just feels too much like Aging-Rocker Tour 2014.

Who do you want NIN to your with? Blood on the Dance Floor?

I think the pairing is perfect.

[ophelia_]

Pretty sick of hearing Letting You live.

And Discipline was my favourite TS track.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

Pretty sick of hearing Letting You live.
I was going to say “What? This is the first time they’ve played it since LITS” — but I see they did do Letting You a few times in ’09. Still, it hasn’t quite reached THTF levels of overuse yet.

[ophelia_]

Still, it hasn’t quite reached THTF levels of overuse yet.

Definitely hasn't reached THTF level - another song that I'm a bit sick of hearing live. They've performed Letting You at 2/3 Aus gigs this tour and I'm hoping they won't perform it at the other 2 shows I'm going to. That song just doesn't do anything for me.

[Charmingly Miserable]

I was listening to Satellite today in the car and it just felt like some leftover from YZ.

[timdotexe]

I was listening to Satellite today in the car and it just felt like some leftover from YZ.

I have the same feeling as well.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

I was listening to Satellite today in the car and it just felt like some leftover from YZ.
You say that like it’s a bad thing.

[Fixer808]

ARG ruined Year Zero in a way.
You're an idiot, it was fun as hell following the progression.

[ghost in the machine]

I have the same feeling as well.

Strange... That's my favorite song on Hesitation Marks and I can't stand most of Year Zero...

[theimage13]

ARG ruined Year Zero in a way.
Good luck finding any Year Zero review in the media which is focused on actual music and not on surroundings.

Then again, it was pretty much the same with With Teeth (sobriety), Ghosts/The Slip (distribution models), Hesitation Marks (soundtracks/Oscars/bringing NIN back from hiatus), so maybe I'm wrong.

Yeah, you're wrong ;)

Seriously though, as someone else mentioned, there's more to an album that just the instruments and vocals. Music is a kind of art, and while it'd be one thing for a review to trip over itself talking about a band tweeting non-stop or something trite like that, it's entirely appropriate to include a massively complex and brilliantly executed marketing game (complete with the rare epitome of a secret show) in the review of an artist's latest project. To suggest that including the ARG in reviews is wrong is to suggest that the ARG was not an integral part of the entire Year Zero project, which is borderline insulting to those who worked on it.

[billpulsipher]

Personally, I don't really care unless it happens at a show that I'm at, but I'm surprised Trent isn't getting much shit for bringing the wife onstage to sing HTDA songs in the middle of a NINE INCH NAILS show, where people paid money to see NINE INCH NAILS, not HTDA. Its kind of an arrogant move, assuming NIN fans in the crowd want to hear this, especially considering the album came and went and probably 30-35% at best of NIN fans even bought the HTDA album. I think people would rather he use those 2 or 3 song slots for lesser played Fragile/TDS songs...If Kurt brought Courtney onstage in the middle of a Nirvana show to play Hole songs, there would have been a riot (before anyone says Kurt wasn't IN Hole...he wrote their entire 1st record)

[sheepdean]

Personally, I don't really care unless it happens at a show that I'm at, but I'm surprised Trent isn't getting much shit for bringing the wife onstage to sing HTDA songs in the middle of a NINE INCH NAILS show, where people paid money to see NINE INCH NAILS, not HTDA. Its kind of an arrogant move, assuming NIN fans in the crowd want to hear this, especially considering the album came and went and probably 30-35% at best of NIN fans even bought the HTDA album. I think people would rather he use those 2 or 3 song slots for lesser played Fragile/TDS songs...If Kurt brought Courtney onstage in the middle of a Nirvana show to play Hole songs, there would have been a riot (before anyone says Kurt wasn't IN Hole...he wrote their entire 1st record)Personally, I don't really care unless it happens at a show that I'm at, but I'm surprised Trent isn't getting much shit for bringing Gary Numan onstage to sing Numan songs in the middle of a NINE INCH NAILS show, where people paid money to see NINE INCH NAILS, not Numan. Its kind of an arrogant move, assuming NIN fans in the crowd want to hear this, especially considering probably 30-35% at best of NIN fans even own a Numan album. I think people would rather he use those 2 or 3 song slots for lesser played Fragile/TDS songs.

Psst, not only are you an idiot but your language of "the wife" is sexist. Which I'm sure is your intent but hey, might've been an honest mistake.

[BRoswell]

Personally, I don't really care unless it happens at a show that I'm at, but I'm surprised Trent isn't getting much shit for bringing Gary Numan onstage...

I think you mean Adam Ant...I mean Marilyn Manson...er, I mean Peter Murphy...wait, no, I mean Saul Williams...no, wait, I think you may be right actually.

[timdotexe]

Strange... That's my favorite song on Hesitation Marks and I can't stand most of Year Zero...

Give it another try, you might be surprised ;)

My favourites (and this is probably controversial as well) in order are:
Zero-Sum
The Great Destroyer
The Warning
Me, Im Not

[timdotexe]

Personally, I don't really care unless it happens at a show that I'm at, but I'm surprised Trent isn't getting much shit for bringing the wife onstage to sing HTDA songs in the middle of a NINE INCH NAILS show, where people paid money to see NINE INCH NAILS, not HTDA.

It happened at the second sydney show I was at last week.... and was a highlight of the evening for me.

Maybe I am biased?

[Ryan]

The Hand That Feeds
Head Like A Hole
Hurt


Why can't that live final trifecta ever be shuffled up just the slightest bit? As soon as you hear those opening noises of THTF you know what to expect and it's blah for me.

[ophelia_]

It happened at the second sydney show I was at last week.... and was a highlight of the evening for me.

Maybe I am biased?

I thought it was a nice "surprise" at the second Sydney show (after seeing it happen in Tokyo, I had a feeling he'd do it in Aus), but uhh.. I'll be kinda annoyed if they do HTDA at any of the Melbourne gigs. NIN tour Australia so rarely, I'd much prefer to see 2 or 3 extra NIN songs than 2 or 3 HTDA songs that I like, but don't love anywhere near as much.

[Joy Prevention Hotline]

The Hand That Feeds
Head Like A Hole
Hurt


Why can't that live final trifecta ever be shuffled up just the slightest bit? As soon as you hear those opening noises of THTF you know what to expect and it's blah for me.
I still think he should open a show with Hurt, just once … and then laugh maniacally as half the audience reflexively heads for the exits. “Pussies!”

But you have to admit that THTF does make a great beginning-of-the-end song. I don’t think it’s just conditioning that tells us the show is winding up.

[elevenism]

I still think he should open a show with Hurt, just once … and then laugh maniacally as half the audience reflexively heads for the exits. “Pussies!”

But you have to admit that THTF does make a great beginning-of-the-end song. I don’t think it’s just conditioning that tells us the show is winding up.

Once i went to see Rush and they opened with Tom Sawyer. It was fucking great.

So trent is bringing MQ onstage and doing HTDA songs? That is killer!
Maaaaaan i was hoping to see HDTA in some kind of small club setting, but that obviously didn't happen.

Ok, to stay on track here, i'll offer some possibly controversial opinions.

I HATE hurt as the final song...it is just TOO...FUCKING...SAD. I'd prefer in this twilight.
timdotexe, i LOVE zero-sum myself. it's a GREAT way of..umm...summing up the message of the record.
My favorites are ITT, ZS, and TGD.

Oh, and i didn't think the ARG "ruined" YZ...i feel that it GREATLY enhanced it.

[ghost in the machine]

Give it another try, you might be surprised ;)

My favourites (and this is probably controversial as well) in order are:
Zero-Sum
The Great Destroyer
The Warning
Me, Im Not

Those would be the songs I actually liked.. I've had a hard time enjoying an entire album since TF. There is always at least one song I skip every time..

Seems as though Atticus, Trent and Alan are pulling from the same bag of tricks on every record these days. Programming, Delays, Commercial Pop Structures, Auto-Tune!!, etc... Don't get me wrong, it is all very inspiring and well done but none of it is groundbreaking anymore.

[tracksfade]

i've never questioned an album's tracklist order until hesitation marks. i think the flow is really off with too many jarring cuts from song to song. that said, the flow of the last four tracks is stellar.

oh, also, i don't get why everyone hates on 'everything'. i think it's a great track, particularly, the last minute and a half is classic nin build-up

[simonn]

oh, also, i don't get why everyone hates on 'everything'. i think it's a great track, particularly, the last minute and a half is classic nin build-up

I think you're mistaken, lots of people like it, myself included...!

[Krazy]

oh, also, i don't get why everyone hates on 'everything'. i think it's a great track, particularly, the last minute and a half is classic nin build-up


Because it it has some super generic up tempo electronic drum beat to start the song, followed by Trent attempting to sing "I've surviieeved..." while his voice cracks and can't reach the highs, soon followed by some guitars that sound like a Cure rip off.

The song could've been actually decent if he would've approached it with something off With Teeth- more of a rock arrangement with actual drums and a bit of ferocity to the vocals (hopefully that made some sense).

[ghost in the machine]

Because it it has some super generic up tempo electronic drum beat to start the song, followed by Trent attempting to sing "I've surviieeved..." while his voice cracks and can't reach the highs, soon followed by some guitars that sound like a Cure rip off.

The song could've been actually decent if he would've approached it with something off With Teeth- more of a rock arrangement with actual drums and a bit of ferocity to the vocals (hopefully that made some sense).

Said track has been removed from my iTunes library. The album flows much better without it.

[m15a]

Seems as though Atticus, Trent and Alan are pulling from the same bag of tricks on every record these days. Programming, Delays, Commercial Pop Structures, Auto-Tune!!, etc...

What tracks on Ghosts I-IV are Auto-Tuned?

[pinata89]

Because it it has some super generic up tempo electronic drum beat to start the song, followed by Trent attempting to sing "I've surviieeved..." while his voice cracks and can't reach the highs, soon followed by some guitars that sound like a Cure rip off.

The song could've been actually decent if he would've approached it with something off With Teeth- more of a rock arrangement with actual drums and a bit of ferocity to the vocals (hopefully that made some sense).

I've always thought this song sounded very much like a song by The Cure -- which I have no problem with, because I like the influence and I like the NIN take on the structure/song arrangement. Although, it really does not fit the mold of the album at all. It seems really out of place and awkward.

[WorzelG]

After reading a few interviews from The Fragile era, Everything seems to reflect that false optimism before relapse

[implanted_microchip]

After reading a few interviews from The Fragile era, Everything seems to reflect that false optimism before relapse

That's a really great connection to make.

"All the walls begin to dissolve away,
Feel your hands begin to shake
And just who you think you used to be
All begins to bend and break . . .
But this thing that lives inside of me
will surely rise and wake
And his seed that bleeds right through to me
As it comes to grab and take."

The whole song seems like it's about there being something just beneath the surface that you don't want to acknowledge and you're trying to ignore, and ironically it seemed like a lot of people did ignore it at first.

[WorzelG]

That's a really great connection to make.

"All the walls begin to dissolve away,
Feel your hands begin to shake
And just who you think you used to be
All begins to bend and break . . .
But this thing that lives inside of me
will surely rise and wake
And his seed that bleeds right through to me
As it comes to grab and take."

The whole song seems like it's about there being something just beneath the surface that you don't want to acknowledge and you're trying to ignore, and ironically it seemed like a lot of people did ignore it at first.
The last paragraph of this interview in particular is very depressing, from 1999

http://www.theninhotline.net/archives/articles/xart130.shtml

"I sincerely don't believe that I'm on the verge of another travel down that horrible road, which would prevent me from doing anything. I feel very optimistic right now"
6 years later With Teeth is released

[implanted_microchip]

The last paragraph of this interview in particular is very depressing, from 1999

http://www.theninhotline.net/archives/articles/xart130.shtml

"I sincerely don't believe that I'm on the verge of another travel down that horrible road, which would prevent me from doing anything. I feel very optimistic right now"
6 years later With Teeth is released

So much of that era sounded like TR in denial, and sad as it is it really makes that album so much stronger to me. Lyrically the whole thing seems so insistent on pushing through, persevering and surviving, and even when Trent wasn't willing to admit that things were so dismal he still managed to do just that. "Everything" definitely seems reminiscent of that frame of mind.

[ghost in the machine]

What tracks on Ghosts I-IV are Auto-Tuned?

That's cute but a better argument would have been The Slip... They are quoted as not using it on that record to give it a more "raw" feel.

[BenAkenobi]

Speaking of which, i kinda want Trent to alter his vocals in studio more freely, because Autolux remix left, like, real fresh impression :)

[m15a]

That's cute but a better argument would have been The Slip... They are quoted as not using it on that record to give it a more "raw" feel.

I was wondering about that also, but I was trying to be cute, too. I could also ask what NIN album did *not* contain programming. But I think the fact that the examples don't support the claim is clear.

[tony.parente]

The setlists have been absolutely terrible since this touring cycle has started.

[katara]

The setlists have been absolutely terrible since this touring cycle has started.
Which touring cycle? Tension?

[dvdglss]

"The Perfect Drug" sounds... dated! I love the song but the electronics sounds a little to mid-90s drum n bass. Very '96-'98.

[trazcure]

I think it's ridiculous NIN is playing HTDA tracks on the current tour. If I wanted to see HTDA live, I'd see HTDA live. They're two separate entities to me.

[ghost in the machine]

I was wondering about that also, but I was trying to be cute, too. I could also ask what NIN album did *not* contain programming. But I think the fact that the examples don't support the claim is clear.

To be a bit more clear.. I think most of the work that has come out of the NIN camp since TF has sounded pretty much the same on a production level. Broken, TDS, TF all had their own ground breaking kind of sound. With the use of Dave Grohl "With Teeth" has a sound of it's own. That said, the programming on the album sounds the same as the programming they have been using ever since. They are using drum sounds that just about anybody can pull up on a computer instead of recording new sounds like they used to. The productions all sound generally the same to me (including HTDA) and this comes from a guy who makes records for a living... The Slip has a bit of a live feel but overall doesn't stray that far from the other albums. Ghosts is obviously the odd man out in this context and is one of my favorite NIN albums to date.

My gripe is simply this. They seem to have fallen into a groove and/or template and can't shake it. They aren't generating new/exciting sounds anymore. The records are pretty much all great and still inspire me as a writer and producer. Trent set a bench mark in the early 90s that continued through 2000. It is my Opinion that they haven't reached that benchmark since.

And Auto-Tune is so incredibly stupid. I can't stand listening to records and hearing it all over the lead and harmonies. It takes the life out of the performance for me..

[Leviathant]

"The Perfect Drug" sounds... dated! I love the song but the electronics sounds a little to mid-90s drum n bass. Very '96-'98.

I wish I had the press release for TPD handy. It sounds even more dated. "The world's first ever industrial drum n' bass song!" Some ridiculous shit like that.

[sheepdean]

I think it's ridiculous NIN is playing HTDA tracks on the current tour. If I wanted to see HTDA live, I'd see HTDA live. They're two separate entities to me.
And you feel the same for TRAR scores?

[m15a]

To be a bit more clear..

Thanks for explaining. Makes sense.

[implanted_microchip]

I think it's ridiculous NIN is playing HTDA tracks on the current tour. If I wanted to see HTDA live, I'd see HTDA live. They're two separate entities to me.

If it became a regular thing for every show, it would be a little much, but bear in mind they're doing this in countries that HTDA will most likely never tour in. A lot of NIN fans have at least heard of HTDA and there are certainly fans of them in places other than the US, so they're doing just a couple of songs out of the set as a way of semi-making up for the lack of touring. No real harm done.

[Merovee]

The HTDA tracks sound better as instrumentals, and I prefer early HTDA's sound over the actual released cd (the one with "On the Wing"), and "Speaking in Tongues" should've been on there.

And they spent most of that new CD trying to be Fleetwood Mac...which no one can do, but Fleetwood Mac.

[GlitchyFlame]

I think that Deep from the With_Teeth rehearsals is the best version of the song. I guess I just like it because of how fucking raw Aaron's guitar was. In fact, I would love to see Aaron to do something for NIN in the future, sadly I don't see that happening since his mental health is fucked.

[implanted_microchip]

I really, really love Running and consider it one of my favorites from HM. It was an absolute thrill to see live, and had some of the best visuals out of all of Tension. The amount of layers to the song, the callback to Hurt ("I had a friend, I think who knew me; I couldn't seem to make him stay" connecting to "My sweetest friend; Everyone I know goes away in the end"), the way the vocals are layered and the constant sense of movement as if the song itself is running, it's absolutely fantastic and the Cold Cave remix isn't half bad, either. I remember this being one of the least loved songs on the album, and I just don't get what's not to like about it.

Oh, and as long as I'm mentioning songs I think get underrated or overlooked, then I've got to mention Underneath It All. One of the defining tracks from the Fragile to me. I wouldn't want to imagine the album without it, and it would've served as a completely fine closing track if Ripe (With Decay) hadn't made the cut.

[dvdglss]

I really, really love Running and consider it one of my favorites from HM. It was an absolute thrill to see live, and had some of the best visuals out of all of Tension. The amount of layers to the song, the callback to Hurt ("I had a friend, I think who knew me; I couldn't seem to make him stay" connecting to "My sweetest friend; Everyone I know goes away in the end"), the way the vocals are layered and the constant sense of movement as if the song itself is running, it's absolutely fantastic and the Cold Cave remix isn't half bad, either. I remember this being one of the least loved songs on the album, and I just don't get what's not to like about it.

Oh, and as long as I'm mentioning songs I think get underrated or overlooked, then I've got to mention Underneath It All. One of the defining tracks from the Fragile to me. I wouldn't want to imagine the album without it, and it would've served as a completely fine closing track if Ripe (With Decay) hadn't made the cut.


These two tracks are probably in my personal top 5!

I really think they should play Underneath it All live with this incarnation of the band.

[GlitchyFlame]

The Slip Rehearsals are far better than the finished album.

[AlanMorlock]

i've never questioned an album's tracklist order until hesitation marks. i think the flow is really off with too many jarring cuts from song to song. that said, the flow of the last four tracks is stellar.

oh, also, i don't get why everyone hates on 'everything'. i think it's a great track, particularly, the last minute and a half is classic nin build-up


Along with just kind of being a subpar song on its own, its awful in context. As you say with the flow of the album, that song cuts the album in half.

[sick among the pure]

That's a really great connection to make.

"All the walls begin to dissolve away,
Feel your hands begin to shake
And just who you think you used to be
All begins to bend and break . . .
But this thing that lives inside of me
will surely rise and wake
And his seed that bleeds right through to me
As it comes to grab and take."

The whole song seems like it's about there being something just beneath the surface that you don't want to acknowledge and you're trying to ignore, and ironically it seemed like a lot of people did ignore it at first.


I always saw Everything as a song about addiction, and didn't understand why people called it the happy song. It's pretty obvious there's nothing actually happy about it.

[ghost in the machine]

The Slip Rehearsals are far better than the finished album.

Where can I find the rehearsals?

[sheepdean]

Where can I find the rehearsals?
Disc 2 of The Slip. Or NIN's official youtube channel.

[Volband]

The real sad thing is that Trent is still so insecure, that he pussies out from playing Everthing, because it had been criticized by the more vocal people (I won't even say "fans", because people who want Trent to be on drugs again are a fucking disgrace to the NIN community, though I know it's not only them who dislike that particular song). That guy recorded Everything and made the decision to include it in his newest album without having any pressure to do so. He obviously thinks it's decent otherwise he would've left it out. This guy has overcome so many things during his career, yet he's afraid to play his own song.

What the fuck?

[Conan The Barbarian]

I think if you like its jumpy vibe good for you. If not, kudos as well.

[Inkë]

I think he doesn't play it for the simple reason it doesn't sound well live.

[dlb]

edit: nvmnd

[Volband]

I think he doesn't play it for the simple reason it doesn't sound well live.
You don't just mistakenly include a song on your setlist.

[GlitchyFlame]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=-ZJvHXm4cYM
This is the best version of MOTP ever played, that climax is fucking insane. @3:45-4:16 I had no clue that Trent could still do that with his voice!

[tony.parente]

Which touring cycle? Tension?

Since Tension began.

[icecream]

Since Tension began.
The current setlists remind me of LITS for some reason, but shorter. Yeah, I have no idea why but for some reason that's what I think. I like the setlists by the way.

[Ryan]

You don't just mistakenly include a song on your setlist.

Yes, plus you can hear it being rehearsed in the background during one of the touring videos.

[Kyle]

The last paragraph of this interview in particular is very depressing, from 1999

http://www.theninhotline.net/archives/articles/xart130.shtml

"I sincerely don't believe that I'm on the verge of another travel down that horrible road, which would prevent me from doing anything. I feel very optimistic right now"
6 years later With Teeth is released

At the risk of giving Bill ammunition I present the following quote from that article without comment.

"I'm actually in the process of seeing if I can right now. We're rehearsing and I've got a new challenge in trying to play live material that's substantially more complex than in the past. When we played the MTV awards I needed two cellists and four backing vocalists on the stage, and I don't know if I want to go that way. I'm trying to find ways to execute them with integrity, but not turn into a bloated rock band. When was the last time you saw a rock band with backing singers that was cool?"

[m15a]

When was the last time you saw a rock band with backing singers that was cool?

Last year on the Tension tour. BOOM. Take that, 15-years-ago Trent!

[Kyle]

I think TR has painted himself into a corner with his music. He's spent his whole career talking primarily about himself, which when you're full of drugs and anger/rage/despair, is pretty interesting. When you're a well adjusted, middle aged, father figure type guy.. not so much..
I've said it in the past, but I think it'd be cool if he were to branch out and start writing about things that are NOT him, but are important to him..
Could breathe new life into the project

He did. It was called Year Zero. And it's awesome.

[Kyle]

Personally, I prefer no lights and just stripped down, raw, rare songs played. I'd be happy to see that at every show, but that's just me. The lighting stuff doesn't do anything for me really. Sure it looks cool, but the novelty wears off once its bound to certain songs. I prefer the idea of unpredictability in a set list and seeing things live for the first time, etc, etc. Again, just me.

its completely unpredictable if you don't read wikis and setlists before the show. In other words, the majority of the crowd.

Well, with one exception. Say what you will about how awesomely unpredictable Wave Goodbye was, but at the end of the WG show I was at, when the THTF/Hurt/HLAH section started it got predictable. Hurt started and I knew he was going to walk off stage afterwards. He came back and played Suck which was a surprise, but when DII started I knew it was going to be followed by THTF and HLAH. And there were a few song orders at other parts of the show that weren't exactly surprising. But if I didn't read any Tension setlists before the show I was at, the predictability level would be the exact same as it was for WG. That's why I think it makes sense to save those types of shows for the smaller intimate shows. Those are the ones that are going to be attended by the hardcore who have seen it all before.

[Kyle]

Last year on the Tension tour. BOOM. Take that, 15-years-ago Trent!

Ha!

to clarify.... I loved the backup singers and was glad I got to see a Tension show. But that quote was too ironic to pass up.

[howdidislipinto]

I hope Everything becomes a staple this summer. And I really do hope Trent is being honest when he says he isn't even aware/checking on online reactions to things, because it's all such nonsense. It's so temporary and unimportant. Remember how jarring Only seemed on With Teeth initially? And now it's just another song in the NIN canon.

[copy_of_b]

I hope Everything becomes a staple this summer. And I really do hope Trent is being honest when he says he isn't even aware/checking on online reactions to things, because it's all such nonsense. It's so temporary and unimportant. Remember how jarring Only seemed on With Teeth initially? And now it's just another song in the NIN canon. Hell yeah, Everything will/would kick so much ass live. Really hope it premieres soon :(

[Kyle]

Hell yeah, Everything will/would kick so much ass live. Really hope it premieres soon :(

Your username made me lol.

[icecream]

You don't just mistakenly include a song on your setlist.
What show was it on the setlist for?

[Volband]

What show was it on the setlist for?
http://tapatalk.com/tapatalk_image.php?img=aHR0cDovL2ltZy50YXBhdGFsay5 jb20vZC8xMy8wOC8wMy9vcmlnaW5hbC95cmVyeTd1Mi5qcGc%3 D

[icecream]

http://tapatalk.com/tapatalk_image.php?img=aHR0cDovL2ltZy50YXBhdGFsay5 jb20vZC8xMy8wOC8wMy9vcmlnaW5hbC95cmVyeTd1Mi5qcGc%3 D
Whoa, craziness

[ComradeCornhole]

Does anyone else feel that, despite its obvious elegance and beauty, AATCHB is one of TR's more... derivative and less original songs? I've been thinking about it in the context of what he said at some point about TPD being a little too obvious in terms of being a representation of his influences at the time, and that being why it's not one of his favorites. Aside from the (probably more likely) possibility that AATCHB taps into a headspace in which he doesn't care to dwell live, could it rather/also be that he feels it's a little too representative of his musical influences. As I've said, it's a perfectly lovely tune; it just never managed to seduce me the way it did so many others. Has TR ever commented on it?

[sheepdean]

I don't recall TR ever mentioning the song, period.

On topic of the song, I disagree on every level, but that's what this thread's for :P

[ghost in the machine]

Last year on the Tension tour. BOOM. Take that, 15-years-ago Trent!

A well produced show, yes. Cool?...

[Kyle]

A well produced show, yes. Cool?...

Also yes

10 characters

[ophelia_]

The last paragraph of this interview in particular is very depressing, from 1999

http://www.theninhotline.net/archives/articles/xart130.shtml

"I sincerely don't believe that I'm on the verge of another travel down that horrible road, which would prevent me from doing anything. I feel very optimistic right now"
6 years later With Teeth is released

I love this part of the above interview: "When was the last time you saw a rock band with backing singers that was cool?"

Lol.

[Ryan]

I don't recall TR ever mentioning the song, period.

There was a question asked at one point in the Access section of nin.com when they asked if (I'm pretty sure it was these three songs) would be played: Last, WITT and AATCHB.

Trent's response was: "yes, maybe, yes"

I probably got that mixed up a bit, but he definitely said "yes" to AATCHB. Whichever one he said "maybe" to has been played, while AATCHB still remains to be seen. :/

[sheepdean]

Just checked Access archive and it's not there, maybe it was in Spiral?

[Ryan]

Just checked Access archive and it's not there, maybe it was in Spiral?

Quite possibly, yes.

Is there an archive of Spiral responses?

Speaking of Access, I updated the My Dead Friend page:

http://www.ninwiki.com/My_Dead_Friend

[WorzelG]

^^^So did message to noone become the Great Destroyer then? or am I being too literal here
[Mes]sage to no one
In particular»
And guess what?
Nobody loves you
Nobody cares
I was sent here to give you this mess[age]
Oh, thats right
You're different
Different than the rest
I forgot
I forgot
Well fuck you
And fuck fitting in to your scene
Fuck what you think
Oh yeah
Well I'm king of the world
The world that I'm destroying
Big chunks at a time
I am the destroyer of worlds
You watch and see
You watch and see

[sheepdean]

I fear we're veering wildly off topic, but I would be surprised if any of those tracks ended up on YZ in the end, aside from Vessel none of them could have been written with anything but the YZ universe in mind. Maybe Trent's idea for the next album was something different at that point.

[EndlessLoveless]

I fear we're veering wildly off topic, but I would be surprised if any of those tracks ended up on YZ in the end, aside from Vessel none of them could have been written with anything but the YZ universe in mind. Maybe Trent's idea for the next album was something different at that point.

Why vessel? Lyrical content? Just curious.

[sheepdean]

Vessel is about drugs and sex being the same (though it's Parepin). Which is like, half of With Teeth's content.

[r_z]

I've always been under the impression that Trent was about to pull a Kid A/Amnesiac in 2005/06 with W_T being the first one. Non-Entity and Not So Pretty Now were planned for the follow up that never materialized because of YZ. It's the reason I'm looking forward to a possible W_T anniversary edition... because there might be a few leftovers lying around. But who knows, really...

[Ryan]

Not sure if this is controversial per se, but I've always thought these are the most beautiful lyrics Trent has ever written.

Probably even more so to me as they are dedicated to his maternal grandmother, and my own grandmother who I was extremely close to passed away on May 6, 2004 -- the DAY -- and I mean spot on, to the day, when nin.com finally updated and the "type writer" font showed up. That wasn't too long after I first started getting into NIN circa 2002/2003 -

As black as the night can get
Everything is safer now
There's always a way to forget
Once you learn to find a way how

In the blur of serenity
Where did everything get lost?
The flowers of naïveté
Buried in a layer of frost

The smell of sunshine
I remember sometimes

Thought he had it all before they called his bluff
Found out that his skin just wasn't thick enough
Wanted to go back to how it was before
Thought he lost everything
Then he lost a whole lot more

A fool's devotion
Swallowed up in empty space
The tears of regret
Frozen to the side of his face

The smell of sunshine
I remember sometimes

I've done all I can do
Could I please come with you?
Sweet smell of sunshine
I remember sometimes

[Omega]

Those are great lyrics. He's so dang talented.

For topic, I didn't think much of The Dragon Sountrack.

[piggy]

I'd agree that it's probably his best lyric. For example, even though sunshine doesn't really have a smell, it still makes perfect sense. Like, just having a sense oriented memory of what it was like to be happy in the past. And the line about the tears frozen to the side of his face captures the sadness and coldness of the situation at the same time.

[MrSlfDstruct]

I always associate the smell of sunshine lyric with how a girl's hair smells after she's been outside in the sun. I guess the same would be true of a guy's hair, but I don't smell other dudes' hair.

Whenever my wife has been outside and I smell it I always tell her she smells like sunshine.

[Charmingly Miserable]

I don't think the U.S. leg of the Tension tour wouldn't happen the way it did without Trent signing to Columbia.

[Merovee]

That song in "Conversations with Trent Reznor" that he said he left out of Hesitation Marks because he thought it sounded too close to "Find My Way"...should've been on the album.

I like "All-Time Low" better in its slower, "unlistenable" form.

[howdidislipinto]

Everything is so fucking good.

Trent needs to do Beach Boys melodies/harmonies all of the times.

[thefragile_jake]

When I think about all of the times I've seen Nine Inch Nails, Tension 2013 probably ranks as my least favorite show....which is a shame because the record that came out in that era is by far still holding up very well.

[screwdriver]

When I think about all of the times I've seen Nine Inch Nails, Tension 2013 probably ranks as my least favorite show....which is a shame because the record that came out in that era is by far still holding up very well.

damn dude, really!? What other shows have you seen??

tension 2013 was probably the "best" I've seen, but I'd have to recommend tripping balls on shrooms at the Terminal 5 "last" NYC show as my favorite ;-)

for context, my show history courtesy nintourhistory:


2013-10-14 (http://nintourhistory.com/concert.php?concertid=889)
Barclays Center (http://nintourhistory.com/venue.php?venueid=623)
Tension 2013 (http://nintourhistory.com/tour.php?tourid=40)
Brooklyn
New York
United States


2009-08-26 (http://nintourhistory.com/concert.php?concertid=836)
Terminal 5 (http://nintourhistory.com/venue.php?venueid=590)
North America (http://nintourhistory.com/tour.php?tourid=35)
New York
New York
United States


2009-06-06 (http://nintourhistory.com/concert.php?concertid=794)
PNC Bank Arts Center (http://nintourhistory.com/venue.php?venueid=441)
NIN/JA 2009 (http://nintourhistory.com/tour.php?tourid=32)
Holmdel
New Jersey
United States


2009-06-05 (http://nintourhistory.com/concert.php?concertid=793)
Susquehanna Bank Center (http://nintourhistory.com/venue.php?venueid=561)
NIN/JA 2009 (http://nintourhistory.com/tour.php?tourid=32)
Camden
New Jersey
United States


2008-08-27 (http://nintourhistory.com/concert.php?concertid=720)
Izod Center (http://nintourhistory.com/venue.php?venueid=509)
Lights In The Sky Over North America (http://nintourhistory.com/tour.php?tourid=28)
East Rutherford
New Jersey
United States


2005-09-23 (http://nintourhistory.com/concert.php?concertid=515)
Key Arena (http://nintourhistory.com/venue.php?venueid=366)
With Teeth Fall Arena Tour (http://nintourhistory.com/tour.php?tourid=22)
Seattle
Washington
United States


2005-05-01 (http://nintourhistory.com/concert.php?concertid=464)
Coachella Music Festival (http://nintourhistory.com/venue.php?venueid=339)
With Teeth Club Tour (http://nintourhistory.com/tour.php?tourid=20)
Indio
California
United States


2000-06-09 (http://nintourhistory.com/concert.php?concertid=440)
The Gorge Amphitheatre (http://nintourhistory.com/venue.php?venueid=320)
Fragility v2.0 Tour (http://nintourhistory.com/tour.php?tourid=18)
George
Washington
United States

[m15a]

When I think about all of the times I've seen Nine Inch Nails, Tension 2013 probably ranks as my least favorite show....which is a shame because the record that came out in that era is by far still holding up very well.

Judging from your location, I'm guessing you went to one (or more) of the first few shows? That might have made a difference. There were some technical difficulties (plus possibly not being ready with some material) from the YouTube footage I saw.

By the NY concert (which I also went to), it was a pretty different show.

[aggroculture]

TR should make an album just him and a (grand) piano.

[sheepdean]

TR should make an album just him and a (grand) piano.
Is that controversial? I'd pay just for ONE song like that.

[aggroculture]

I was thinking of adding that maybe when Rick Rubin told him to go to Big Sur and write on a piano he wasn't ready, but maybe now he is.

I wonder if he'll go see King Buzzo acoustic. He's certainly taken a few influences from Melvins over the years.

[r_z]

Too many generic NIN-moments/lyrics ruin Hesitation Marks.

[r_z]

Also, fuck a piano album. I can't image anything more boring. No one needs that kitschy shit.

[Krazy]

When I think about all of the times I've seen Nine Inch Nails, Tension 2013 probably ranks as my least favorite show....which is a shame because the record that came out in that era is by far still holding up very well.


Do you own a time machine or something?

[thefragile_jake]

Do you own a time machine or something?

Just saying that Hesitation Marks is still holding up man. Geeze.

[Krazy]

Just saying that Hesitation Marks is still holding up man. Geeze.

Don't take my comment too seriously, just being sarcastic. Honestly thought it was an odd choice of words when HM is only about 7 months old.

[katara]

Also, fuck a piano album. I can't image anything more boring. No one needs that kitschy shit.
I guess you never heard Still.

[r_z]

I did, actually, and I quite like the Fragile outtakes. But I think there would be nothing more awkward for Trent than trying to be this singer sitting behind a piano playing/singing all those self indulgent songs (new ones or old ones) we already heard a million times.
For one I don't consider him a good enough singer, while his notoriously cringeworthy lyrics wouldn't stand a test if not accompanied by / hidden under the brilliant production of synths, loops, beats, etc. Come to think of it, I'd actually prefer another Ghosts album next time. Unless he finally manages to break free from his habit of rehashing the same old topics and phrases he lazily goes back to in his lyrics ever since, for whatever reason.

[jessamineny]

I did, actually, and I quite like the Fragile outtakes. But I think there would be nothing more awkward for Trent than trying to be this singer sitting behind a piano playing/singing all those self indulgent songs (new ones or old ones) we already heard a million times.
For one I don't consider him a good enough singer, while his notoriously cringeworthy lyrics wouldn't stand a test if not accompanied by / hidden under the brilliant production of synths, loops, beats, etc. Come to think of it, I'd actually prefer another Ghosts album next time. Unless he finally manages to break free from his habit of rehashing the same old topics and phrases he lazily goes back to in his lyrics ever since, for whatever reason.

What makes a good singer is character, ability to convey emotion, and fearlessness. Pitch doesn't hurt either. He has all of that in spades.

[fillow]

The idea of Still came spontaneously, and the material was collected from entirely different places (CRC show rehearsals, One Hour Photo rejects, The Fragile outtakes, one or two originals). I'm not sure the result will be the same if Trent forces out of himself another quiet album just for the sake of it.
I'm not saying he isn't capable of coming up with awesome quiet pieces - Ghosts and soundtracks prove he is. But I'm pretty sure there won't be specifically Still II album.

[ComradeCornhole]

I did, actually, and I quite like the Fragile outtakes. But I think there would be nothing more awkward for Trent than trying to be this singer sitting behind a piano playing/singing all those self indulgent songs (new ones or old ones) we already heard a million times.
For one I don't consider him a good enough singer, while his notoriously cringeworthy lyrics wouldn't stand a test if not accompanied by / hidden under the brilliant production of synths, loops, beats, etc. Come to think of it, I'd actually prefer another Ghosts album next time. Unless he finally manages to break free from his habit of rehashing the same old topics and phrases he lazily goes back to in his lyrics ever since, for whatever reason.

While I disagree with your characterization of TR's songwriting, I concur, in a way, with your sentiment about doing songs at a piano. I actually think that would be fine, but, if you ask me, what would be better would be TR sitting at a piano and just keeping his mouth shut. An album length sonata or something would be something for which I'd sacrifice non-essential body parts. Maybe a toe. One of the little ones.

[ComradeCornhole]

Since I'm here: I think THTF is a fine song, especially in a vacuum. I had ditched radio before WT came out, so I didn't get flooded by it like so many others did. And because of geography, I've only been to a scant handful of shows, so it doesn't bother me there, either.

[Fangster_]

Otherwise I adore Find My Way, but the lyrics always force my teeth to grind. HM in general is one big contrasty hit n' miss party of lyrics.

As the thread demands, let me put it controversially enough:

http://i62.tinypic.com/2z7rksw.jpg

[nothing8]

http://i62.tinypic.com/2z7rksw.jpg

Well done, this almost made me shoot hot tea out of my nose from laughter.

[slave2thewage]

I roll my eyes whenever people call That's What I Get and Kinda I Want To "stupid" or "immature" yet wank themselves silly over The Only Time.

[Little_Dreamer]

I think Trent's a great lyricist.
Yes.
Maybe it's because english isn't my first language and I'm more than happy that I don't need a dictionary and a lexicon to understand what he's saying, I don't know, but I love (most) of his lyrics.
Also, I love That's What I Get. I don't think it's immature at all, I think it's lovely.

[WorzelG]

I really liked this review of With Teeth, that seemed to be negative at the start particularly about lyrics, but ends up positive because of the music

http://www.drawerb.com/2005/06/20/nine-inch-nails-with-teeth-interscope/

I think NIN get too raw a deal from reviews because of the lyrics, it seems to me because music critics are journalists and write for a living, they put undue emphasis on lyrics rather than music. I mean if you're going to slag off NIN for poor lyrics, how come Morrissey doesn't get anywhere near enough slagging for his solo output being interchangeable jangly guitar indie landfill music? because they like the lyrics (I was so disappointed when I got the 'world of morrissey' which was supposed to be a best of and every song sounded the same - except I did love the Moon River cover). Sorry but if lyrics are your thing and music doesn't figure, become an author

[r_z]

http://www.drawerb.com/2005/06/20/nine-inch-nails-with-teeth-interscope/

That's a great review. Thanks for posting.

[implanted_microchip]

I roll my eyes whenever people call That's What I Get and Kinda I Want To "stupid" or "immature" yet wank themselves silly over The Only Time.

I've honestly never understood the problem people have with Kinda I Want To. It's really no different from the rest of PHM lyrically and musically it's fine; I feel like half the reason people trash it so much is because TR himself said he doesn't like it (and if people are going to go with that, then we all have to not like Broken, the Woodstock performance, and Ruiner's guitar solo, too.)

[icecream]

I really liked this review of With Teeth, that seemed to be negative at the start particularly about lyrics, but ends up positive because of the music

http://www.drawerb.com/2005/06/20/nine-inch-nails-with-teeth-interscope/

I think NIN get too raw a deal from reviews because of the lyrics, it seems to me because music critics are journalists and write for a living, they put undue emphasis on lyrics rather than music. I mean if you're going to slag off NIN for poor lyrics, how come Morrissey doesn't get anywhere near enough slagging for his solo output being interchangeable jangly guitar indie landfill music? because they like the lyrics (I was so disappointed when I got the 'world of morrissey' which was supposed to be a best of and every song sounded the same - except I did love the Moon River cover). Sorry but if lyrics are your thing and music doesn't figure, become an author
Kanye's lyrics are always pretty lame. Yeezus got great reviews. some of his lyrics made me cringe, but I found the music to be pretty good. People who write reviews seem to judge 50% on content and 50% on hipness. Kanye is hot while NIN is that band you liked in highschool. That's how I see it anyway. Morrissey is cool, he gets pretty good reviews too.

[Krazy]

Wow, I'm actually shocked about the hate that TR's lyrics get overall. Yes- there's some songs that aren't all that great (the most recent that comes to mind directly is All Time Low- sounds like Paul Stanley tried doing a rap song/everything needs to rhyme; or CBH generic stuff- actually a lot off HM), but the good/intelligent/personal lyrics over his career far outweigh the bad.

Still not a fan of HM, giving up at this point. :( outside of Ghosts (which I don't consider a NIN album anyways- was a better way of marketing rather than something like 'Trent Reznor presents: Ghosts- a soundtrack to daydreams') it's the only NIN album I can't find anything to connect with or even entertaining musically. I like Copy of a but more for its live performance.

Which leads ads to the next album that TR hinted at. There was an 'expectations' thread prior to HM's release. I honestly don't have any for the next album, whenever that may be (guessing second half of 2015?? Still will be before Tool!!)

[implanted_microchip]

Wow, I'm actually shocked about the hate that TR's lyrics get overall. Yes- there's some songs that aren't all that great (the most recent that comes to mind directly is All Time Low- sounds like Paul Stanley tried doing a rap song/everything needs to rhyme; or CBH generic stuff- actually a lot off HM), but the good/intelligent/personal lyrics over his career far outweigh the bad.

Still not a fan of HM, giving up at this point. :( outside of Ghosts (which I don't consider a NIN album anyways- was a better way of marketing rather than something like 'Trent Reznor presents: Ghosts- a soundtrack to daydreams') it's the only NIN album I can't find anything to connect with or even entertaining musically. I like Copy of a but more for its live performance.

Which leads ads to the next album that TR hinted at. There was an 'expectations' thread prior to HM's release. I honestly don't have any for the next album, whenever that may be (guessing second half of 2015?? Still will be before Tool!!)

Just out of curiosity, how'd you feel about The Slip? Musically it seemed pretty close to Ghosts and lyrically HM is pretty damn similar.

[Krazy]

Just out of curiosity, how'd you feel about The Slip? Musically it seemed pretty close to Ghosts and lyrically HM is pretty damn similar.

To be fair I knew what TS was- a quickie free NIN album. I'll agree to disagree about it being similar to Ghosts- would pen it more towards the B-sides of WT, feels a bit more like a "rock" album and there's lyrics and what not. I can also get into a few of TS songs like 1 mil (and 999,999 is a satisfying intro- particularly with the LITS tour), Discipline, and couple more.

[Ryan]

as black as the night can get
everything is safer now
there's always a way to forget
once you learn to find a way how

in the blur of serenity
where did everything get lost?
the flowers of naivete
buried in a layer of frost

the smell of sunshine
I remember sometimes

thought he had it all before they called his bluff
found out that his skin just wasn't thick enough
wanted to go back to how it was before
thought he lost everything
then he lost a whole lot more

a fool's devotion
swallowed up in empty space
the tears of regret
frozen to the side of his face

the smell of sunshine
I remember sometimes

I've done all I can do
could I please come with you?
sweet smell of sunshine
I remember sometimes



Yes, Trent can't write lyrics at all...

[implanted_microchip]

Also don't forget In This Twilight, Head Down, Right Where It Belongs, The Line Begins to Blur, Even Deeper, Zero-Sum, Ruiner, And All That Could Have Been, Happiness In Slavery, Me, I'm Not, The Great Below, In Two, Home, While I'm Still Here, Lights In the Sky, Love Is Not Enough, etc.

Honestly the amount of NIN songs with good to great lyrics are pretty high and the lesser ones are absolutely the minority. He may revisit a lot of themes and have recurring phrases, but that's pretty common for artists of any medium -- Stephen King has alcoholics, Tarantino has trunk shots and violence, and Trent Reznor cannot stop slipping away with all these things put inside of him. Big deal?

Oh and a lot of people complain about CBH's final chant but let me be the one to point out that it's basically the same thing as Discipline with more words, a song generally accepted as pretty okay.

[m15a]

I've honestly never understood the problem people have with Kinda I Want To. It's really no different from the rest of PHM lyrically and musically it's fine; I feel like half the reason people trash it so much is because TR himself said he doesn't like it (and if people are going to go with that, then we all have to not like Broken, the Woodstock performance, and Ruiner's guitar solo, too.)

Oh, no. I disliked Kinda I Want To since before I even had internet, so I definitely didn't even know TR didn't like it. It definitely stood out as sounding super corny as a teenager - mind you, in retrospect, I think of that as more a personal fault of mine (not being able to listen past that corniness). I don't think it had anything to do with the lyrics, either, since I don't really listen to lyrics much. These days, I still am not a huge fan of the version on PHM, but I am not a huge fan of PHM as a whole, and I actually like the demo version.

Weirdly, That's What I Get was one of my favorite songs from PHM. I didn't know it was thought of as a lesser song until years later. And I didn't know Terrible Lie was such a big hit (at least at live shows).

::shrugs::

[screwdriver]

also don't forget in this twilight, head down, right where it belongs, the line begins to blur, even deeper, zero-sum, ruiner, and all that could have been, happiness in slavery, me, i'm not, the great below, in two, home, while i'm still here, lights in the sky, love is not enough, etc.

Honestly the amount of nin songs with good to great lyrics are pretty high and the lesser ones are absolutely the minority. He may revisit a lot of themes and have recurring phrases, but that's pretty common for artists of any medium -- stephen king has alcoholics, tarantino has trunk shots and violence, and trent reznor cannot stop slipping away with all these things put inside of him. Big deal?


thank you <3

[AlanMorlock]

Also don't forget In This Twilight, Head Down, Right Where It Belongs, The Line Begins to Blur, Even Deeper, Zero-Sum, Ruiner, And All That Could Have Been, Happiness In Slavery, Me, I'm Not, The Great Below, In Two, Home, While I'm Still Here, Lights In the Sky, Love Is Not Enough, etc.

Honestly the amount of NIN songs with good to great lyrics are pretty high and the lesser ones are absolutely the minority. He may revisit a lot of themes and have recurring phrases, but that's pretty common for artists of any medium -- Stephen King has alcoholics, Tarantino has trunk shots and violence, and Trent Reznor cannot stop slipping away with all these things put inside of him. Big deal?

Oh and a lot of people complain about CBH's final chant but let me be the one to point out that it's basically the same thing as Discipline with more words, a song generally accepted as pretty okay.


What makes me laugh is that some of those recurring phrases tend to come up for Trent even in conversations and interviews, "a million miles away." in particular.

[WorzelG]

Kanye's lyrics are always pretty lame. Yeezus got great reviews. some of his lyrics made me cringe, but I found the music to be pretty good. People who write reviews seem to judge 50% on content and 50% on hipness. Kanye is hot while NIN is that band you liked in highschool. That's how I see it anyway. Morrissey is cool, he gets pretty good reviews too.
Do people see kanye's lyrics as 'ironic' though? I found Yeesus musically ok but a lot of the songs seemed to jump around in genres mid-song which I found annoying, like he doesn't think people have the attention span.

[AlanMorlock]

The difference being Only is a good song.

[icecream]

Do people see kanye's lyrics as 'ironic' though? I found Yeesus musically ok but a lot of the songs seemed to jump around in genres mid-song which I found annoying, like he doesn't think people have the attention span.
I have no idea, people seem to love his lyrics though and justify their badness. I have heard/ read him being called the voice of my generation. With lyrics like his, I feel there are better out there. As to the music, apparently the album was a mess a few weeks before the deadline and they had Rick Rubin come in and try to salvage some of it. I noticed the jumping around too, but it didn't bother me as much. I just think there are better experimental rap albums out there. All hype and not much content but still more interesting than the other major releases out last year.

[Kyle]

I kinda liked the jumping around in genres mid-song, but then again I'm a Mr Bungle fan.

[m15a]

Yeah, I haven't heard Yeezus, but there is plenty of music that changes suddenly and rapidly. Strange to jump to the conclusion that it's because of some expected limitation of the listener. It's like saying that gradual or minimal music is designed for stupid people. (The statement struck a nerve because I do write and listen to more gradual music and some people do say that sort of thing. Same with experimental music being meant to shock people.)

[MAD]

as black as the night can get
[...]
Yes, Trent can't write lyrics at all...
Those are some of my favorite lyrics..

[katara]

Otherwise I adore Find My Way, but the lyrics always force my teeth to grind. HM in general is one big contrasty hit n' miss party of lyrics.

As the thread demands, let me put it controversially enough:

http://i62.tinypic.com/2z7rksw.jpg
The song might also be seen as kind of a mantra or chant in which repetition is important for the prayer.

[WorzelG]

Yeah, I haven't heard Yeezus, but there is plenty of music that changes suddenly and rapidly. Strange to jump to the conclusion that it's because of some expected limitation of the listener. It's like saying that gradual or minimal music is designed for stupid people. (The statement struck a nerve because I do write and listen to more gradual music and some people do say that sort of thing. Same with experimental music being meant to shock people.)
I see Kanye as a mainstream act so I go into it, perhaps unfairly, thinking about how he's trying to pull the audience in. I noticed that some of lady gaga's stuff has that genre changing within songs lately too so I just think of it as a new thing! I don't listen to anywhere near enough music now anyway. But I guess I love the theme to tetsuo, which changes suddenly and the more you listen to it, a certain symmetry in the noise becomes apparent. I give NIN a lot of chances to grow on me though, which i don't have the time or inclination to give to everyone!