Game of Thrones - Spoilers

[NIN64]

I can't believe we have to wait until 2019. That sucks on so many levels.

Has this been confirmed? I've been reading Summer 2018 everywhere. . .

[Deepvoid]

Has this been confirmed? I've been reading Summer 2018 everywhere. . .

Vox is saying 2019: https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/8/28/16214522/when-will-game-of-thrones-season-8-be-released-2019
Vanity Fair says maybe summer 2018 but most likely 2019: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/08/when-does-game-of-thrones-season-8-air-how-long-how-many-episodes-who-is-in-it

[NIN64]

Vox is saying 2019: https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/8/28/16214522/when-will-game-of-thrones-season-8-be-released-2019
Vanity Fair says maybe summer 2018 but most likely 2019: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/08/when-does-game-of-thrones-season-8-air-how-long-how-many-episodes-who-is-in-it

Bummer. . . I hope the rumors of feature length episodes is true at least. . .

[skullboy0]

I've been reading a lot of these types of criticisms, especially in regard to the ways in which LF and Varys have been treated lately as characters. But I have to ask - what did you guys expect? I feel like it's been obvious for many years that this entire story was about a Kingdom of people politicking and scheming while unwinnable war against an unambiguous evil was brewing quietly in the background. This is the end game. There is so little room left for politics. We've transitioned into fantasy. This was always going to happen, the NK was always going to get the dragon, the ink has dried.

I've often wondered if this is part of the reason Martin's taking so long to finish the remaining books, having had the general idea of the ending this whole time actually taking the time to write it has to be the boring part since it's pretty straigtforward with all the clues that have been laid previously.

[Bachy]

How do you answer these chargers . . . Lord Baelish?

https://media.giphy.com/media/EUhpOR7ellWgg/giphy.gif

[Wretchedest]

I've been waiting for his reaction to become a gif actually, it was great

[Jinsai]

just wanted to check to make sure that someone I respect wasn't that awful in his commentary...

While you may be related by blood to another Landis, you, Max, suck. SHAME.

Also, you've made nothing near the substance of Game of Thrones, to the point where it'd be hyperbolic to make a comparison point, so shut the fuck up.

but, for clarification via wikipedia, "Landis is a fan of pro wrestling (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_wrestling) and of Pro Wrestling Guerrilla (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Wrestling_Guerrilla). He is also an outspoken fan of pop artist Carly Rae Jepsen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carly_Rae_Jepsen), with an essay on an analysis of her songs in the works."

Cool.

[Swykk]

Hey, don't disparage PWG, please. Max is a douchedrinker for sure but not all wrestling fans are like him.

[neorev]

A 2019 return is looking more likely...
http://www.nme.com/news/tv/game-of-thrones-season-eight-may-take-longer-than-ever-to-make-2132671

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-why-wait-final-season-isnt-a-big-deal-anymore-1032873

[neorev]

It is official... no GoT until 2019...
http://www.comingsoon.net/tv/news/912225-hbo-confirms-game-of-thrones-wont-return-until-2019

[mrselfdestruct94]

I feel like the wait for season seven took forever and just like that it was already over. Six feature length episodes (90-120 minutes, I assume?) should be sufficient to make up for the fact that they're shortening the amount of episodes when compared to previous seasons. I'm also speculating we won't be getting it until Summer 2019, around the two year mark since season seven and in the same way those episodes were pushed back from the usual spring premiere to July. I'll also bet money that the finale to Game of Thrones will debut and play out and conclude and we still won't have any clue when Winds of Winter is getting published, lol. And so my waiting begins, again.

[Sister Midnight]

Without getting too much into it, over the holidays I was in the hospital and when I got out I was still in very bad shape. Needless to say I was bedridden, I never watched Game Of Thrones I really wasn't into that kind of fantasy stories. I was beginning to get tired of the people in my life asking "How come you don't watch Game Of Thrones?". So I binge watched that shit, all seven seasons.
Now, I am into it, now I get all the jokes I never got because now I understand the jokes. Arya Stark is my favorite character she is a badass. I thought the actress that played Rob Stark's wife was gorgeous.
Then I find out I have to wait until 2019 to find out what happens next.

I have one question, How do you guys wait so long?

[marodi]

I have one question, How do you guys wait so long?

Well, it involves a lot of bitching and whining. Also, it involves compulsively checking if GRR Martin has finally, finally finished writing The Winds of Winter and if it's going to be published any time soon.

And when we learn that it's not, there's a lot of bitching and whining at GRR Martin.

There's also checking out Kit Harington's facial hair and haircut for clues.

But mostly bitching and whining is the key.

[neorev]

Prepare yourself.

In a new interview with Game of Thrones‘ visual effects supervisor Joe Bauer, he began talking about the show's eligibility for the Emmy's and said this...

Game of Thrones Season 8 May Not Arrive Until Mid 2019 or Later

"In two years we’ll be eligible for the Season 8 work, which we’re just beginning now,” said Bauer, while speaking with The Huffington Post. “We’re going to be toiling away on season 8 until May of 2019, so it’s eight or nine months away…But the prequel is starting to shoot in February, at least the pilot. So we’ll still have quite a lot to do on season 8 when they’re beginning.”

Source:
http://www.comingsoon.net/tv/news/972923-game-of-thrones-season-8-may-not-arrive-until-mid-2019

Bad news: no final season of GOT until mid to late 2019.
Good news: filming on prequel series begins February 2019, which I guess they'll want it to arrive in 2020 not too long after the GOT series finale.

[theimage13]

Prepare yourself.

In a new interview with Game of Thrones‘ visual effects supervisor Joe Bauer, he began talking about the show's eligibility for the Emmy's and said this...

Game of Thrones Season 8 May Not Arrive Until Mid 2019 or Later

"In two years we’ll be eligible for the Season 8 work, which we’re just beginning now,” said Bauer, while speaking with The Huffington Post. “We’re going to be toiling away on season 8 until May of 2019, so it’s eight or nine months away…But the prequel is starting to shoot in February, at least the pilot. So we’ll still have quite a lot to do on season 8 when they’re beginning.”

Didn't we already know that?

And what does he mean "just beginning season 8"? People have been posting set photos from that for months.

[marodi]

Didn't we already know that?

And what does he mean "just beginning season 8"? People have been posting set photos from that for months.

He's saying that they will still have a lot to do on season 8 of Got when they're going to start shooting the pilot to the prequel in February. I think he means to say it's going to be even more work for them.

[neorev]

Didn't we already know that?

And what does he mean "just beginning season 8"? People have been posting set photos from that for months.

He's the visual effects supervisor... meaning they only just started working on the special effects for season 8 (yes, they have already been filming the live action stuff) and will continue onto doing effects for season 1 of the prequel series when they finish season 8's effects in May 2019.

[neorev]

:(
George R.R. Martin thinks ‘Game Of Thrones’ could’ve lasted for 13 seasons
https://www.nme.com/news/george-r-r-martin-thinks-game-of-thrones-couldve-lasted-for-13-seasons-2380686

[snaapz]

I'm a massive GOT fan, been watching since season 1.

I'm not a fan of prequels.

[Vertigo]

George's comments are a bit strange - outwardly it's looked like he's had very little input into the show for several years now. 6 years since his last script, and whenever you hear interviews, he's always sounded disconnected from the process - I don't think he's a regular in the writers' room. And now that the series has completely left the books behind, it could really use a proactive role from him - the writing in this last season has been criticised by a vocal part of the fanbase.

It's not the "13 seasons" part that sounds so odd about it to me - it's the "we"​, with the aforementioned in mind.

[neorev]

Be cool if new showrunners and George come in and work on a "sequel" to Game Of Thrones. They could call it something else if they wanted just to keep the two separated, but continue storylines that are open to be continued. It is a shame HBO and co. are racing to the finish line with this.

[marodi]

1062359268203077633

[bobbie solo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA38GCX4Tb0&ab_channel=GameofThrones

APRIL 14TH LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[october_midnight]

https://twitter.com/GameOfThrones/status/1102962107203682304

[ryanmcfly]

https://twitter.com/gameofthrones/status/1102962107203682304\


asdfjasdkfaskdfjas:kdfjak:sdjfak:sdjfak:sdjfa:ksdj fa:ksdjfa:ksdjfa:skdjfka:sdjfakdjfasdfq(wrutqgq@(# $trgfgsdfg

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

The trailer made me tear up... I dont think my emotions are ready for this yet.

[sonic_discord]

Yep. It gave me goosebumps. Can't remember the last time a trailer did that...

[theimage13]

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/31/708535741/a-game-of-thrones-fan-traveled-to-the-arctic-as-part-of-a-worldwide-scavenger-hu

no spoilers - just cool.

[theimage13]

Oh fuck. There's an awful lot to process from this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwmAWOE5F9o

[marodi]

Aegon should know better than to leave his sword like that. But again, what does he know, right?

[Mantra]

Here we go

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Damn, didn't waste any time with the true king reveal. I teared up a bunch while Sam was spilling the beans to Jon. That Jaime and Bran stare down!

[Wretchedest]

You could see the gears turning in Jon's head but he definitely missed a pretty.... Pertinent component of the information that was given to him lol

[marodi]

I believe he was thinking "What the fucking fuck; I just don't have time for this shit!"

[Mantra]

Good episode

But I honestly can't understand how they're gonna wrap everything up in just five more episodes. If this was any other season it would be fine, but i was surprised at how relatively relaxed and slow paced it seemed given how little time they have left. I just hope it doesn't mean that everything is overly rushed in like the last three episodes.

[Wretchedest]

Good episode

But I honestly can't understand how they're gonna wrap everything up in just five more episodes. If this was any other season it would be fine, but i was surprised at how relatively relaxed and slow paced it seemed given how little time they have left. I just hope it doesn't mean that everything is overly rushed in like the last three episodes.

There was even kind of like a rolling back of momentum in this episode, it feels like we are slightly further behind than when it started.

[Jinsai]

they're just getting the wheels moving again guys.... it's pacing...

Think about it... the ENTIRETY of the LOTR movies was contained and exhaustively worked out within 9 hours or so.
Think about HOW MUCH stuff they packed into that one episode where Cersei blew everybody up and then her son killed himself.
The ENTIRE part of the Star Wars story that actually was good fit into six hours, and that includes Ewoks dancing.

I liked the episode, I'm currently watching it again in the background periphery, and fuck yeah, let's do this.

[ltrandazzo]

I loved all of the throwbacks to the first episode, especially with it ending with Jaime and Bran staring at each other.

I wonder if Jon is more worried about bringing this up to Dany because it'll cause a political issue, or because he realizes he's been having sex with his aunt? It'll be a fun one next week!

[Mantra]

Am I the only one who feels like they've never perfectly nailed the dragon riding thing? Something about it always looks just a little goofy to me.

[Wretchedest]

Yes, for all that the show tried to be grounded these people just ride dragons like they're tricycles or something

[Jinsai]

I enjoyed how goofy the dragon riding scene was... Unfortunately, now that John knows that Khaleesi is his aunt, I think we're unlikely to see the goofy dragon-back sexposition scene that we were all hoping for.

And I'm loving sociopathic Bran; finally his character is likable and awesome! The part where Jon happily greets him only to quickly have a "Whuuuu... fuck this" look and walk away. Almost had to pause I was laughing so hard.


Be cool if new showrunners and George come in and work on a "sequel" to Game Of Thrones. They could call it something else if they wanted just to keep the two separated, but continue storylines that are open to be continued. It is a shame HBO and co. are racing to the finish line with this.

They're putting together another series in a different time/setting in Westeros. I would be surprised if the final episode of this season isn't preceded by a teaser clip.

[neorev]

They're putting together another series in a different time/setting in Westeros. I would be surprised if the final episode of this season isn't preceded by a teaser clip.

They had 5 GOT related projects in development, but all apparently prequels. I heard one was scrapped, one called The Long Night is definitely happening, and the other three are still being developed. They've been announcing the cast for The Long Night.

[marodi]

re Bran: Did someone just wheeled him outside and left him there to stare creepily at arriving people? And to let the occasional cryptic phrase out ( You know the Big Bad has your third dragon, right?)

Jon will not tell Dany that he is the true heir because he doesn't want the Iron Throne. Angry Sam ( who cannot digest the Tarley-cue) and Creepy Bran might tell her just to mess with her. Watch that scene again: the only thing that got a reaction out of Jon is that Ned, whom he admired above all, has been lying to him all his life. If he survive the Big Fight, it's the main thing he'll have to recover from.

Chances of Ser Bronn using that crossbow? Nil.

And what about the White Walkers artwork? That was disturbingly awesome.

Also: Lady Mormont still rules.

Disclaimer: I borrowed the term Tarley-cue from a revue I've read. It's so great.

[bobbie solo]

re Bran: Did someone just wheeled him outside and left him there to stare creepily at arriving people?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-bbG4CUU0Z7c/XLUjQrzb2FI/AAAAAAAAGJs/XFHwDBhxXXkX91fVYRegDUdfV5CayaiWgCK8BGAs/s0/2019-04-15.jpg

[bobbie solo]

And what about the White Walkers artwork? That was disturbingly awesome.

The latest in a long set of these they've been creating since the first episode. Will be interesting if one of them (or a separate narrator) explains the meaning of them to us beyond the obvious tie to a long ago past where the same symbols were used/etched in the caves:

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/JodmrjQp8Rbv7aWNHj5NTn9m66M=/0x0:1919x1021/1200x0/filters:focal(0x0:1919x1021):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/16028997/horses.jpg

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/bVFpZDfHcFWUbVswSyHQrF3MPtk=/0x0:1920x1025/1200x0/filters:focal(0x0:1920x1025):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/16028998/ep_1.jpg

https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2019-04/15/2/asset/buzzfeed-prod-web-06/sub-buzz-16120-1555310701-1.png

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/jFQuEt7saBXVckoWyWKKwJDMqP4=/0x0:1920x1028/1200x0/filters:focal(0x0:1920x1028):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/16032643/s7.jpg

[sonic_discord]

Am I the only one who feels like they've never perfectly nailed the dragon riding thing? Something about it always looks just a little goofy to me.

Yes. As great as this show is and as amazing and top-notch movie-quality as the effects almost always are, there are times when it looks a little dodgy and that scene stuck out to me too. I mean those dragons usually look great, but whenever people directly interact with them like that, the illusion falls apart a little.

[Alexandros]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0w0EqKfij8

[chuckrh]

best dialog:
what do dragons eat, anyway?
anything they want

[theimage13]

I've watched this twice. First time? Slept for all but five minutes (to be fair, in the previous 36 hours I had gotten one hour of sleep). Second time, the following day: I think I got about 25 minutes in.

Goddamnit, I really need to sleep. Not because it's healthy or anything. I just need to watch this damn episode.

[marodi]

bobbie solo

https://twitter.com/BrighamYMoney/status/1117657125847588865?s=20

Things that make you go hmmm...

[bobbie solo]

@marodi (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=125)

That makes some sense. Damn. But I have no earthly idea how a Targaryen would end up so far north of the wall and become the Night King. Also, those spirals have also been shown related to the children of the forest, the first men, etc.

If true though, I guess that would blow up the theory that people have from the stories of old from the books about the Night King being an ancient Stark who was cast out and is seeking revenge against men all these years later:


The story of the Night’s King (http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Night%27s_King) is quite different in A Song of Ice and Fire, and not just because of the added apostrophe and letter. Bran recalls his education on the legendary character, who was said to be the 13th Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch. The Night's King was seduced by what sounds like a female Other, something yet to be seen in the series. She is described as having pale skin and blue eyes, which sounds exactly like a White Walker. As the stories go, when the two mated, she took his soul.
The Night's King then became the tyrannical ruler of the Night’s Watch, declaring himself king with his frosty queen by his side. It took a coalition between the Starks of Winterfell and Joramun, a King-Beyond-The-Wall, to end the Night’s King’s dictatorship at the Wall (http://www.ranker.com/list/rip-the-wall-hello-white-walkers/lisa-waugh). He was finally taken out after a 13-year reign. Afterwards, it was discovered that the Night's King and his queen had been sacrificing... something to the Others. It is unclear what exactly it was, however, as all records of his reign were destroyed. His true name has been forever forbidden.

[marodi]

Yeah, it would make more sense for the Night King to be an ancien Stark, especially considering the link he has with Bran.

I'm beginning to be afraid that after the finale., we will be left with more questions than answers; just like we were when Lost ended.

[Jinsai]

@bobbie solo (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=753)

https://twitter.com/BrighamYMoney/status/1117657125847588865?s=20

Things that make you go hmmm...

yeah, and the 8 points are there too... I think it's a safe call... though in the other "art" there's only 7 points in the spiral...
I don't know!!!

[bobbie solo]

Yeah, it would make more sense for the Night King to be an ancien Stark, especially considering the link he has with Bran.

I'm beginning to be afraid that after the finale., we will be left with more questions than answers; just like we were when Lost ended.

agree on your last point. They unnecessarily set themselves up for potential failure on sticking all the various landings we're looking for by doing this abridged season. I really hope we get the full story of the Night King...meaning his origin and his motives. Wouldn't be fair to leave us hanging otherwise. and I don't want or expect happy endings for the main characters, but we should get a definitive ending to their story arcs.

[marodi]

Well, that settles it: lady Mormont is going to fight. She'll frown at the Night King and he's going to be so scared that he's going to go back to where he came from. He'll even rebuild the Wall behind him!

Jon Snow, you have proven me wrong. I'm so proud of you.

Naked Arya traumatized me and Ser Brienne made me cry. Bran delivered the mother of all burn.

But there was only one thing that made me scream out loud: GHOST!!!

[Mantra]

That whole fireplace scene was so fun

[Wretchedest]

Dany is absolutely going to kill Jon now. They've been building to it for a while.

[sweeterthan]

This episode was a trap. They trying to make us feel good before everyone dies.

[Wretchedest]

Definitely at least one person in each of those rooms is fucked

[Jinsai]

This episode was a trap. They trying to make us feel good before everyone dies.

Well, I hope EVERYONE fucking dies after that episode, cuz they need to make up for that gigantic waste of time. NOTHING HAPPENED!!

[bobbie solo]

I GOT FRESH MEME'S PEOPLE!



https://pasteboard.co/IbgunjB.jpghttps://pasteboard.co/IbgunjB.jpghttps://pasteboard.co/IbgunjB.jpghttp://i67.tinypic.com/fylq8k.jpg

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http://i64.tinypic.com/r0t4ld.jpg

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[Jinsai]

I'm just glad some other people feel weird about Arya... I just didn't want that to happen, and I don't know who was asking for that uncomfortable moment. I'm ok with her stabbing dudes in the eyes and smiling while she slits peoples throats, but...

[Wretchedest]

Yeah they really stretched that one out. Felt like a lot of filler.

As for Arya/Maisie, she's an adult, it's her call. Relatively tasteful as far as GoT is concerned

[marodi]

As for Arya/Maisie, she's an adult, it's her call. Relatively tasteful as far as GoT is concerned

Yes, Maisie is an young adult now. Naked Maisie in anything else would not bother me. But Arya was like 12 years old when we first met her and she's grown, of course. And she kills people and wear their faces but... naked Arya is more ewwww to me than the Jaime/Cersei coupling or the Jon/Danny one.

Especially since the Targaryens had a tendency to go full ancient Egyptians and marry brother to sister. Dany's parents were siblings after all.

[theimage13]

This thread is helping to point out what I really dislike about American culture.

"Yeah, I don't have a problem with her feeding someone's kids to them in a meat pie and slitting their throats, but having sex is just too weird."

Killing people is fine, having sex is cringeworthy. Right. This is how we have videos of bodies in war zones on the news every night, but some pop star shows her tit for a split second on TV and her career is ruined while the station gets fined millions.

[sweeterthan]

This thread is helping to point out what I really dislike about American culture.

"Yeah, I don't have a problem with her feeding someone's kids to them in a meat pie and slitting their throats, but having sex is just too weird."

Killing people is fine, having sex is cringeworthy. Right. This is how we have videos of bodies in war zones on the news every night, but some pop star shows her tit for a split second on TV and her career is ruined while the station gets fined millions.

Yes! We’ve watch plenty of rape on this show. (Too much IMO.) This scene was uncomfortable, but also empowering. Her telling him take off his pants. She removes her thick winter clothes to reveal her soft skin. I thought the whole scene was rather lovely and well done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[theimage13]

Thinking more on this, I think the only aspect of the scene that may have rubbed me the wrong way was the whole "I don't want to die not knowing what it feels like" explanation. They already had chemistry. She already wanted him and I'm pretty sure he already wanted her. But that part made it sound more like it was being rushed for the wrong reasons. She's one of the most powerful characters in the show; she could have gotten him in bed without having to go all "I don't want to die a virgin" on him. I don't have a problem with them showing that her character does have some level of vulnerability, but that particular angle is just....eh, I've never been a fan of it. It makes it feel like it's not *entirely* consensual - like she knows she wants it, she just might not be ready otherwise and so now she's forcing herself to do it. If she already wanted to jump him regardless, ditch the desperation angle. If she didn't want to, then.....eesh.

(Then again, this may be largely based on the fact that I waited longer than any of my friends because I never did the whole "eh, why not?" thing and waited until the right time with the right person.)

But my original point still stands: it blows my mind that throat slitting gets a thumbs up and some side boob gets a thumbs down.

[M1ke]

So, next week the armies are going to fight, and the living are vastly out-numbered and have no chance of survival. Except, that something happening outside the battlefield might make the entire army just die suddenly out of nowhere.

I think we've all seen return of the king. I mean, I know this time the writers are willing to to kill important characters, so maybe the hobbits aren't going to save the day this time, but this setup just doesn't feel fresh.

Which isn't something I've not really found with Game of Thrones until recently. It's a bit disappointing, tbh.

[Jinsai]

My feeling weird about that scene isn't because of American culture, and hey, Marodi's agreeing with me (for pretty much the same reasons) and she's not an American! ;)

I'm not being a prude about it... I just marathon'd the series in preparation for the new finale, and yeah, she starts off as a child, so the transformation there is alarming, and not just because the actress still looks young for her age. It's like.... did you ever watch The Wonder Years? It ends with Kevin and Winny having sex, but it's kind of adorable because it didn't (and not just because of daytime TV standards I think) get graphic with it.

And really, I'm not freaking out about it, it was just "errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" feeling; uncomfortable.

[richardp]

This thread is helping to point out what I really dislike about American culture.

"Yeah, I don't have a problem with her feeding someone's kids to them in a meat pie and slitting their throats, but having sex is just too weird."

Killing people is fine, having sex is cringeworthy. Right. This is how we have videos of bodies in war zones on the news every night, but some pop star shows her tit for a split second on TV and her career is ruined while the station gets fined millions.

I love you for this. 1000000% yes to all of this.

[sweeterthan]

Thinking more on this, I think the only aspect of the scene that may have rubbed me the wrong way was the whole "I don't want to die not knowing what it feels like" explanation. They already had chemistry. She already wanted him and I'm pretty sure he already wanted her. But that part made it sound more like it was being rushed for the wrong reasons. She's one of the most powerful characters in the show; she could have gotten him in bed without having to go all "I don't want to die a virgin" on him. I don't have a problem with them showing that her character does have some level of vulnerability, but that particular angle is just....eh, I've never been a fan of it. It makes it feel like it's not *entirely* consensual - like she knows she wants it, she just might not be ready otherwise and so now she's forcing herself to do it. If she already wanted to jump him regardless, ditch the desperation angle. If she didn't want to, then.....eesh.

(Then again, this may be largely based on the fact that I waited longer than any of my friends because I never did the whole "eh, why not?" thing and waited until the right time with the right person.)

But my original point still stands: it blows my mind that throat slitting gets a thumbs up and some side boob gets a thumbs down.

I think it shows who Arya is. A male warrior character wanting to have sex before going into battle wouldn’t be questioned at all. She hasn’t been a female stereotype since we were introduced to her as a girl. She didn’t want to marry a prince. She wanted to learn how to sword fight. She doesn’t wear dresses. She’s obviously a passionate young person and I think her desire to experience sex before death is human.

[theimage13]

I think it shows who Arya is. A male warrior character wanting to have sex before going into battle wouldn’t be questioned at all.

I'd question it - now. Ten years ago? You're absolutely right, I probably wouldn't have batted an eye or had a second thought. (obligatory shoutout to my favorite feminists, most of all my better half, for opening to my eyes to double standards)

But I think there's a big difference between someone experienced (male or female) wanting to get it on before battle, and having never done it before and rushing it out of fear and desperation. It's not like it's the end of the world and I don't really anything inherently wrong with it (I mean...if she does die, then I guess she doesn't have to worry about any of the ensuing emotional or physical complications that could arise). Maybe I just romanticize the first time too much. I doubt I would have had a second thought if she'd already been there / done that and she just wanted another fuck or another guy before going into battle.

[marodi]

Some of you are missing my point: I don't care about Arya having sex; she can have all the sex she wants. I just feel weird about seeing her naked since she was a CHILD when I first met her.

If I were bothered by sex scenes, I would have turned off GoT after 5 minutes of season one, episode one. Rape scenes bother me though. Even the ones we don't actually see (technically, only Theon saw it). Blood and gore don't bother me but I still can't watch Ned losing his head. Or parts of the Red Wedding.

Gee, if I wanted to go all Freud on my reactions, I'd be pretty pleased that there is still some feelings left in me; maybe I'm still human after all.

In other news: Sansa and Theon's reunion was beautiful. These two understand each other like like few others could.

[bobbie solo]

Let's move on from this topic and not derail the thread?

[theimage13]

Let's move on from this topic and not derail the thread?

We're talking about a scene from the show; what's the problem?

[ltrandazzo]

Here's Maisie discussing the scene and how it was all handled (https://ew.com/tv/2019/04/21/game-of-thrones-maisie-williams-gendry)

And here's Dana Schwartz calling it like it is -
1120372891206307840

Anyway, even without all of that, I thought the scene was great and, like a lot of things in this series, paid off something that was being set up 8 years ago. The dead are marching on you and will be at your front door in several hours. You're back with the boy you first met when every second was sacred because someone could come and snatch you up and almost did several times. Seize the moment because you might not have another.

[theimage13]

Some of you are missing my point: I don't care about Arya having sex; she can have all the sex she wants. I just feel weird about seeing her naked since she was a CHILD when I first met her.

My point stands then: you found it totally fine to watch a CHILD slit a guy's throat after baking his sons' fingers into his dinner, but you find it weird seeing her body. You didn't find cannibalism and grisly murder weird, but you found it unsettling to see some of her adult body.

Also: I'm surprised no one has commented on Bran repeating Jamie's season one line back at him word for word regarding the things we do for love.

Also also: I think at this point the only ending I'd actually be upset with is if Daenerys somehow wins. I've hated her since season one, and I still hate her. More than ever after this episode.

[sweeterthan]

Let's move on from this topic and not derail the thread?

I don’t see how the thread is being derailed at all. Other than your post.

[marodi]

Here's Maisie discussing the scene and how it was all handled (https://ew.com/tv/2019/04/21/game-of-thrones-maisie-williams-gendry)

And here's Dana Schwartz calling it like it is -
1120372891206307840

Anyway, even without all of that, I thought the scene was great and, like a lot of things in this series, paid off something that was being set up 8 years ago. The dead are marching on you and will be at your front door in several hours. You're back with the boy you first met when every second was sacred because someone could come and snatch you up and almost did several times. Seize the moment because you might not have another.

Carpe Diem!


.

Also: I'm surprised no one has commented on Bran repeating Jamie's season one line back at him word for word regarding the things we do for love.




Bran delivered the mother of all burn.

First, he stares at them creepily and then, he blows their little minds with one well placed phrase. Oh Bran, please go remind Dany how she smothered her sun and stars.

What I do find weird is how anyone can think it's a good idea to hide in the crypt. With dead people all around. Dead people that can be brought back to life by the Night King. Oh yeah, I have a great feeling about this.

Thing I don't want to see: headless Ned running around trying to kill Gilly and little Sam. Grown up Sam may regret having given away his handy Valyrian steel sword.

[sweeterthan]

I'd question it - now. Ten years ago? You're absolutely right, I probably wouldn't have batted an eye or had a second thought. (obligatory shoutout to my favorite feminists, most of all my better half, for opening to my eyes to double standards)

But I think there's a big difference between someone experienced (male or female) wanting to get it on before battle, and having never done it before and rushing it out of fear and desperation. It's not like it's the end of the world and I don't really anything inherently wrong with it (I mean...if she does die, then I guess she doesn't have to worry about any of the ensuing emotional or physical complications that could arise). Maybe I just romanticize the first time too much. I doubt I would have had a second thought if she'd already been there / done that and she just wanted another fuck or another guy before going into battle.

I did not get fear or desperation from her during the scene at all. She decides to have sex with him after he basically says he has experience but not too much experience. She liked him already, she’s lived thru so much at such a young age and she wants to do this right now with him. I definitely think she likes him beyond fucking but I certainly can see how this is her choice in those moments. It’s now or never and she chose now.

[Jinsai]

I mean... can I just say that I thought Arya smiling while slitting Frey's throat was really disturbing? I thought the scene where she horribly murdered Merrin Trant was disturbing. Don't mistake me for having a double standard there... The actress is an adult, she can make the decisions she wants, and she's free to of course. I just personally felt uncomfortable, but more in a way like if I were watching a video of my own adult child or something... you don't necessarily disapprove, but you sure as shit would feel strange watching.

It feels weird that I have to spell it out to be honest. I can't remember when I last had to argue against the assertion that I'm a prude or something... it was an awkward scene, and it didn't help that I felt that it was bookended by an episode that was weirdly forced and disingenuous.

[Wretchedest]

I'm not suggesting you're a prude. It's definitely a first that it's happened in the same series where they were a child. It's definitely itely weird. I'm just saying it's not *fucked up* or whatever else that might imply

[ltrandazzo]

And that's the tea. (https://news.avclub.com/sophie-turner-had-a-downright-filthy-reaction-to-aryas-1834220980)

*dying*

[bobbie solo]

Things to keep in mind as things start to go down over the next few weeks: How accurate will Dany's visions in the House of the Undying be, how accurate will Cersei's prophecy from the fortune teller be (and will they stick to just what we got on TV, or add that last element from the books), and the wild card: what will the Red Woman do, if anything? She's been purposefully kept off the board thus far, but I don't think that will last.

[theimage13]

Fan theory: the Night King is heading towards King's Landing while all of Winterfell is distracted by the approaching army.

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/bdwuse/spoilers_extended_my_night_king_is_not_stupid/

[sweeterthan]

Things to keep in mind as things start to go down over the next few weeks: How accurate will Dany's visions in the House of the Undying be, how accurate will Cersei's prophecy from the fortune teller be (and will they stick to just what we got on TV, or add that last element from the books), and the wild card: what will the Red Woman do, if anything? She's been purposefully kept off the board thus far, but I don't think that will last.

I can’t remember if posted here or not but two years ago I watched the whole series again. In the house of the undying, dany has a vision of the iron throne in winter with snow falling all around the throne room.

Bran also has the same vision of the throne. I can’t remember when tho. Maybe right before he becomes the three eyed raven. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190423/0d4fe631269ed03a38c1c1defeb454ff.jpg

[M1ke]

Fan theory: the Night King is heading towards King's Landing while all of Winterfell is distracted by the approaching army.

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/bdwuse/spoilers_extended_my_night_king_is_not_stupid/

Shit......that seems 100% likely. It makes so much sense, I'd be kind of surprised if it wasn't true now.

There's so much pointing towards it being true. Let the foot soldiers try to take over winterfell. Even if they lose, after taking down Kings Landing on his fucking dragon, his new army is bigger anyways.

[marodi]

I was wondering why we have the Battle of Winterfell on the third episode. It seemed too early. Of course, it makes perfect sense for the Night King to go for King's Landing first.

Very useful you are, Bran the Creeper.

[ryanmcfly]

Fan theory: the Night King is heading towards King's Landing while all of Winterfell is distracted by the approaching army.

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/bdwuse/spoilers_extended_my_night_king_is_not_stupid/

Holy shit. I dig this theory more than the Night King is going to raise the dead in the crypt.

[bobbie solo]

I can’t remember if posted here or not but two years ago I watched the whole series again. In the house of the undying, dany has a vision of the iron throne in winter with snow falling all around the throne room.

Bran also has the same vision of the throne. I can’t remember when tho. Maybe right before he becomes the three eyed raven.

Yes that was what I meant more specifically. I can't imagine they would show us that vision twice from two different characters and then just let it mean nothing. Although, perhaps us taking it literally is the red herring, whereas it's symbolic meaning is what ends up being the vision's lasting importance. Guess we'll see!

[marodi]

I'm very worried about Ser Brienne, in Sunday's upcoming episode, since she'll be positioned outside Winterfell's walls. But then I remembered: isn't her sword made of Valyrian steel that came from Ned Stark's own sword? How fitting that it's going to be used to defend his beloved home.

But still, I fear for Ser Brienne... :(

[marodi]

Double post, sorry.

We haven't discuss the new opening credits and its new animations. What do we see in Winterfell? Why, that bloody crypt. Where everyone is going to be sooooo safe. I think not. The Night King may not be there to raise the dead Starks but I'm telling you that little Sam ( and everyone else) are not safe. I'll guess we'll see .

Second thing that I find intriguing: is this the Red Keep's cellars we see in King's Landing? If it is, why is it important? From the very little I remember about them, it contains secret passages, very old dragon skulls and wildfire. What else could be there?

I can't wait for tonight's episode but I'm also dreading it so much. I have a bad feeling about this.

edit: bobbie solo: THERE YOU GO!!!

[Mantra]

Holy fucking shit

aaaaarrrryyyyyyyyaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!

[Wretchedest]

The battle plan was so egregiously terrible, the dragons mostly inactive, the info ent hiding from a necromancer I the crypts.... Use bran as bait but leave him alone with only Theon and ten dudes....

I was actually convinced until the last second that bran deliberately set them up to fail, and that the night king was just coming to bow to him, the plan was just so bad


But the ending made it worth it I flipped out

[Kodiak33]

That may have been the single most impressive episode of tv I've ever seen.

[Piko]

I'm so worn out after all that. Amazing. Just amazing. Holy shit.

[Wretchedest]

Rogue goes for sneak attack, critical fail, you drop your knife and aare grappled by your enemy.

Rogue goes to catch the knife *rolls 20*

[marodi]

I'm not crying, you're crying!

This episode is going to be talked about for years. This was some big screen stuff we just saw.

The end was fantastic. I did not see that coming at all.

Also: dear lady Mormont: you were fabulous.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

The cinematography was amazing here, everything leading to the ending of this episode was top notch. But the ending? Come...on...

[richardp]

That episode set a new bar for television, and fucking movies for that matter. That felt like Dunkirk with Dragons.

[Jinsai]

that was exhausting... nail-biting awesome holy shit



Also: dear lady Mormont: you were fabulous.

My favorite part of the episode. Goddamn she kicked ass.

And yeah, that was really something... I don't even think "big screen" covers it. This is wrapping up in a "beyond epic" way. And I'm not even mad that it pulled the Smaug/Death-star-flaw trope.

Also, did anyone else feel like they were reminded of playing a stealth video game (like Metal Gear) during the tense sequence with Arya in the library w/ the zombies? The framing of that scene at least felt informed by it, if not directly inspired by. And that's kinda cool to see media go full circle there with its influences.

[bobbie solo]

- the episode looked like complete dogshit for me. I have Verizon Fios. Yes I understand that we were supposed to be "in the dark", "fog of war", confused, etc by the first 20-30 minutes or so until they light up the trenches. But the amount of articles on the screen during the snowstorm, battle closeups, etc were inexcusable through my Fios feed. I couldn't follow anything and it just looked like a big ole mess. Articles are articles...they were clearly there and it sucked. I just brought the episode back up via On Demand and it already looks much more clear.

- Highly recommend the "Inside the Episode" featurette that HBO offers for each episode if you can view it. More insight into this epic. This was the coolest line in it to me: "For three years, we’ve known it was going to be Arya to deliver that fatal blow,” creator David Benioff said in the post-episode commentary. “We hope to avoid the expected. Jon Snow is a savior ... but it just didn’t feel right for us in this moment. We knew it had to be Valyrian steel to the exact spot where the Child of the Forest put the dragonglass blade to create the Night King. And he’s uncreated by the Valyrian steel.

- In hindsight, Arya killing the Night King has been foreshadowed for a while now. Bran gives her that dagger first of all. Then early in this episode the Red Woman stares at Arya for a while, realizing she will be the one to do it. And in their first meeting a few season ago, she says to Arya some of the same lines she repeated tonight: "I see darkness in you. And in that darkness, eyes staring back at me. Brown eyes, green eyes, blue eyes. Eyes you will shut forever." Hence the pep talk & then Arya going all:

https://media1.tenor.com/images/853306da3cad3923987a2e4f42373d3e/tenor.gif

Syrio says a similar thing to her in season one: "There is only one god, and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death..."not today." Once they conspicuously keep Arya's whereabouts away from us for a prolonged period of time, we should have all seen that ending coming. I didn't though...I was too caught up in everything!

- Would have liked Theon to go out just a tad differently. Instead of running at the Night King like a moron with his spear, a smarter approach from what we know as a seasoned and skilled fighter in Theon should have happened. Sure, have the Night King dispatch him easily anyway. But Theon is too skilled a fighter to simply run at him yelling. That's so typically Hollywood and doesn't match the character.

- on a similar beat, we really should have seen the White Walkers do a little bit more before just 'sploding. These are his big, bad lieutenants. Can we see them in action a bit? Same goes for the Night King, but at least I get that Arya needed the element of last second surprise there to best him, b/c he had too many walkers around him for her to win in an actual fight.

- this probably means we will never get any more backstory on the Night King. Was really hoping we would.

- is Jon's dragon dead? I assume not since we didn't see an actual death. Dany's dragon seems ok too based on how the scene went with her and Jorah.

- Considering the situations the creators decided to put Brienne, Jamie, Grey Worm and Sam in, they should have realistically died in that battle. If the writers weren't going to kill them off, then don't put them in such bad scenarios on the front lines for extended periods of time surrounded by wights over and over again and then expect me to believe they would survive that. Film those scenes differently if they're going to survive.

It might sound like I didn't like the episode but I did! I'm still digesting the epicness of it all. Incredible that this is a TV show.

[Wretchedest]

Brienne died like 4 times in that episode but she seems fine

[kdrcraig]

The episode was great, especially the ending. But good god I could not tell what the hell was going on for most of it. It was cutting to different shots every 2 seconds.

Sending the Dothraki charging out into the darkness was so stupid. Agree with whoever said earlier that the battle plan was incredibly dumb.

I gotta hand it to my wife for calling last week that the white walker story would end this week, I did not expect that to happen.

[Wretchedest]

My wife and I were pretty bored/frustrating with the episode to the end actually. Very dark especially on OLED and our stream was lower quality for some reason, but almost all pertinent relevant stuff happened in like the last 10 minutes. Maybe that's how these things go, gotta enjoy the journey.

We kept getting mad at Dany, we always are, but particularly today as she didn't seem to be especially proactive with her two dragons

[Kodiak33]

I watched the live stream on Prime (they have live HBO channels), then switched over to the archived episode also on Prime when the show started. The archived had much better quality. If you have the opportunity, use that.


I also have OLED, and thought it was beautiful.

[wizfan]

Holy crap, holy crap, holy crap. I saw Avengers: Endgame, Elseworlds AND this in the same week. I'm officially a giddy spoilt kid again.

[wizfan]

Also, did anyone else feel like they were reminded of playing a stealth video game (like Metal Gear) during the tense sequence with Arya in the library w/ the zombies? The framing of that scene at least felt informed by it, if not directly inspired by. And that's kinda cool to see media go full circle there with its influences.

I THOUGHT THE EXACT SAME THING. Gimme a stealth game starring Arya now.

[ltrandazzo]

Catspaw has had quite the journey.

[Alexandros]

OK, sure, amazing episode and all that, but the trope boss kill reeeeally stretched my good will. I mean, it's fine, it's a conclusion and I guess it would always be something like that since it was apparent that the Night King was the source of all power. I don't know, I guess I was hoping for something more even slightly more unconventional. Anyway, in all other aspects it was a very atmospheric episode. Lots of cool/terrifying moments. That complete Dothraki wipeout (yeah pretty silly tactical move but they paid for it) was awesomely presented from afar and was a nice "oh shit" moment for what was about to follow.

Shit, so that was a big chunk of story apparently concluded. Looking forward to see how it will all play out now.

[M1ke]

I have mixed feelings about it.

One of the things that I've always loved about GoT is that the story it's been telling has been different from the story of the "good guys" being put in peril and then pulling through with some last second heroics like we get from pretty much every other blockbuster out there. I walked into the episode not knowing if the "good guys" would be able to pull it off or not, and I was legitimately worried for them for the entire battle.

The final 3 episodes could have been the white walkers marching south to destroy Kings Landing after taking Winterfell and it would have been great television, and telling a different story than most TV/movies. Or that idea that someone posted about the Night's King going to King's Landing first, and the living winning the battle of winterfell that way.

And also, yeah, we're not going to get history on the Night's King now, which is disappointing. We'll probably never get an explanation for what the symbol he keeps leaving means. Or why he keeps giving John ominous looks across the battlefield rather than just killing him. Because now they he's dead, they have to deal with the Cersei problem after sustaining massive losses.

I really liked how I didn't know what was going to happen, so I was legitimately scared for everyone on the show. It was an emotional, exhausting episode, and I was literally in tears by the end of it. But I don't like how the final narrative was basically the same as every other blockbuster out there.

Stealing victory from the jaws of defeat has been done to death. I had hoped that Game of Thrones would do something different somehow. And it didn't really.

[marodi]

So the Big Bad is dead, yay! Evil with a capital E has left Westeros. There is no more need of a gigantic, magical Wall to protect the living. Yippee!

Doesn't that sound a bit wrong to you? When it comes to GoT, I'm in the habit of doubting everything.

Anyway, CNN has been posting reviews of every episode of this season and they are pretty good at pointing out the good, the bad and the what the fuck. Here's the link to last night's episode's review.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/29/entertainment/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-3-recap-trnd/index.html

And only 5 characters death? That's a miracle! Unless... Where are Gilly and Little Sam?

[M1ke]

Yeah, there's lots of questions still to answer. This battle brought together a lot of characters who wouldn't associate with each other under most conditions.

What will Jamie do when Dany marches on King's Landing? Is Bronn actually going to try and kill Jamie or Tyrion? Who will sit on the Iron Throne when it's all done? How will Dany and Jon resolve the issues with Jon's parentage? Is Dany going to try and kill Bran and Sam for committing treason to try and deny Jon's parentage?

There's a lot of questions to answer, but honestly, after they killed the walkers I'm not sure if I care about the answers.

You just defeated the big bad to defend the living and now you're going to go back to killing the living? K, have fun with that.

I'm not going to stop watching, I'm just not feeling as excited about the last 3 episodes as I was at the start of the season. Hopefully there will be something coming that I'm missing that makes it more satisfying. Like you suggested, maybe the walkers aren't completely gone. Or maybe the children of the forest will make a new NK. I don't know, but I feel like if that's really the end of the white walkers that it's really disappointing. Especially with so many questions about them.

[Jinsai]

So the Big Bad is dead, yay! Evil with a capital E has left Westeros. There is no more need of a gigantic, magical Wall to protect the living. Yippee!

Doesn't that sound a bit wrong to you? When it comes to GoT, I'm in the habit of doubting everything.

Anyway, CNN has been posting reviews of every episode of this season and they are pretty good at pointing out the good, the bad and the what the fuck. Here's the link to last night's episode's review.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/29/entertainment/game-of-thrones-season-8-episode-3-recap-trnd/index.html

And only 5 characters death? That's a miracle! Unless... Where are Gilly and Little Sam?

I thought I saw Gilly get dragged away screaming...

and come on, could we have hoped for something more intense than that? I get it, "victory snatched from the jaws of defeat" is an overused trope but dammit it works. The "tiny window of hope/ Hail Mary" thing is done to death too, but it's still around cuz it's kinda rad... it's the way to resolve epic tension, and this is getting so goddamn epic. What better way (and I ask this honestly, not patronizingly) could this have been resolved?

Is the Night King gone @marodi (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=125)? I'd say I'd expect the answer to be "yes" for at least the duration of this story. It'd be an insane (and frankly annoying) plot twist at this point if he came back.

Now we have to resolve palace theater, and all I want is Cersei to die badly. Call me a horrible person. I want some shadenfreude here.

[Mantra]

I felt like that ending was the most righteous, satisfying fan service a show has ever done. It was just so fucking badass that Arya was the one, so I can pretty much forgive everything just because I was so into that ending.

But yeah, the rest of the episode was a mixed bag to me. I feel like the GOT writers long ago lost their stomach for the kind of harsh realism that dominated the first four or so seasons. In the old days, they were killing off main characters left and right, because they were fully committed to this approach of having logical consequences within a fantasy setting. Real life isn't some fairy tale where somehow the right people always manage to survive even the most dire of situations, with the possible exception of one or two tragic deaths along the way that almost serve as token sacrifices along the inevitable path to victory. A lesser show would have never killed off Ned, or chopped off Jamie's hand, or had the red wedding. It was cool how GOT was almost like an anti-epic, where it didn't matter if Rob Stark seemed like a special character destined for greatness. He fucked up, so he got butchered by that petty old geezer, because life is harsh man.

But these days GOT has gone soft. They keep giving their main characters the most miraculous escapes, it's absurd. Like last season when Bronn shoved Jamie out of the way of Dany's dragon at the very last second. That was like something out of some 90s adventure cable movie. Dumbest shit ever. So yeah, it's kind of absurd that so many of those main characters survived the battle last night. They kept showing these shots of Brienne and Sam and Jamie and the Hound somehow fending off hordes and hordes of ice zombies like they were fucking Marvel heroes, and yet meanwhile all the rank and file soldiers were getting massacred like they were nothing. It's just way too safe for what I expect from this show.

But whatever, I can look past all that, cause they had Arya kill the night king, so I'm a happy camper.

[Wretchedest]

I think that's a payoff. It makes the show watchable. When it was all torture and rape this show was garbage. There was no reason for it to be that way.


The night king was by far the shows least interesting conflict, a character fundamentally incapable of dimension. The how's best tensions are always in the nuan e of politics and I terpersonal relationships, so getting rid of him and focusing on the conflict with Circe is the right thing to do, if possible later than it should have happened

[Jinsai]

I didn't mind the lack of dimension/personality to the threat of the Night King... it was at least a metaphor for existential dread, something nameless and cancerous but faceless and with only a destructive intent.

On a larger scale, I thought the point was more of a reference to what threatens us, like climate change etc... so it's weird to feel like it was quickly wiped out of the story... but...

[zecho]

I don't know what you guys were expecting, but this episode was a huge let down for me. Apparently the Night King, after being hyped up as the ultimate threat to Westeros, is so weak that he and his army are defeated in their very first battle, and he specifically loses in his very first fight. This episode was like Lost levels of unsatisfying, maybe even worse.

Who is the Prince That Was Promised? What was the Night King's motivation? What was the point of all that dragon glass if only Jon, Arya, and Theon were gonna fight White Walkers? What was the point of all the White Walkers aside from the Night King if they never fight? Why was Brann so useless in fulfilling his purpose as the Three-Eyed Raven? Did a ragtag army with no plan really just beat the undead on their very first try? Why did the other White Walkers die when the Night King was killed? Why were they built up as the ultimate threat to Westeros since the first episode if they weren't even enough of a threat to beat an unprepared enemy in their very first battle? Is the Night King still supposed to seem threatening even after we know that he loses his only fight against a young girl? What was the purpose of that symbol the undead kept drawing? How did Sam survive when he did absolutely no fighting and was overpowered like, seven times on screen? How did the wight dragon burn through the outer wall but is unable to burn through a broken three foot wall when Jon is right on the other side? Why did Brann warg into a group of ravens in the middle of battle for no reason? Did they seriously make fucking Cersei the final boss? This is all bullshit and the writers know it.

Apparently Cersei was right in not considering the White Walkers a real threat, since after marching south for eight fucking years they were killed and accomplished absolutely nothing as soon as they got passed the Wall. I could keep going, but I think you guys get my point. The writing on this show dropped in quality an incredible amount the second they caught up to GRRM's books, and this episode proves that they really just don't have it in them to do anything other than adapt what he's already written. I don't know that there's anything they can do to give this show the ending that the first four seasons deserved at this point. They've fucked it all up way too much.

[Mantra]

Is the Night King gone @marodi (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=125)? I'd say I'd expect the answer to be "yes" for at least the duration of this story. It'd be an insane (and frankly annoying) plot twist at this point if he came back.

I can see it now: the camera slowly zooms in on a patch of dirt...suddenly, the night king's icy fist comes punching up out of the ground!!

[ricardo]

How did Arya manage to reach the NK so easily? I knew she was a good fighter and has her own business with magic and all that. But still... That was just stupid IMO. She's just too overpowered at this point. Drunk Cersei or that Greyjoy prick don't stand a chance against her.

The episode was too dark, way too dark. I could barely see what was going on in some scenes.

It's funny because episode 2 could almost be classified as filler as it was just characters hanging out basically. And it was much more enjoyable. Maybe it's because I could see them. Brienne is just so awesome. Super-powered Arya, GoT's own Rey/Captain Marvel, on the other hand (go on, facepalm this, I know you want it, I know it's your biggest desire right now. Go on, I don't mind).

This episode felt a lot like the last american Godzilla movie. The best parts were barely visible. Hopefully they saved so much money from this episode that the next battle will be insanely huge, colorful and cinematic.

[Wretchedest]

We can't a t like it didn't happen without effort. Unlikely alliances had to be formed, lota of people died.... The Night King prepped for years but... So did everyone else. They had a plan with a singular goal of getting him I to a vulnerable position.

He's always been the most boring part of the show. Zombies are boring. Everything has fucking zombies. They're not interesting. Circe is interesting. Jamie, no longer comitted to fighting zom ies with the Stark's, that's Interesting.

If the night kind dies, so does his entire army... So if he didn't die in this episode, that's really kind of plot armor, right? Like even as far as he went without taking an arrow to the face just seems unlikely. And that's why a magic zombie army is boring. They can't just kill Circei and win the north, there's a lot of shit to hash out even then. Those villains have nuance. I'll take it.

[Jinsai]

How did Arya manage to reach the NK so easily?

She's a super Jedi... this is the best payoff for her training side plot. She can skip around in shadows and change faces... I'm very ok with that part.

[zecho]

We can't a t like it didn't happen without effort. Unlikely alliances had to be formed, lota of people died.... The Night King prepped for years but... So did everyone else. They had a plan with a singular goal of getting him I to a vulnerable position.

He's always been the most boring part of the show. Zombies are boring. Everything has fucking zombies. They're not interesting. Circe is interesting. Jamie, no longer comitted to fighting zom ies with the Stark's, that's Interesting.

If the night kind dies, so does his entire army... So if he didn't die in this episode, that's really kind of plot armor, right? Like even as far as he went without taking an arrow to the face just seems unlikely. And that's why a magic zombie army is boring. They can't just kill Circei and win the north, there's a lot of shit to hash out even then. Those villains have nuance. I'll take it.

Just because you don't like zombies and want more political characters doesn't justify the build up over the past eight years for nothing. The overarching theme of the show was the hubris of Westeros ignoring the dead to play a political game that ultimately won't matter when the true danger arrives. The fact that they threw that out the window, ignoring all prophecies and lore development, is the problem, not that the Night King is dead. The fact that Brann's story and the prophecies, and the visions, and the magic is all ultimately meaningless is the problem. They could have added more depth to the White Walkers and given you want you want as well. But they didn't, they just made half the series up to this point meaningless, the same way they did with Dorn. If it was gonna turn out this way from the beginning, the Wall plotline, Brann's plotline, Mellisandra's plotline, the Wildlings plotline, the Brothers without Banners plotline, the God of Light plotline, the Children of the Forest plotline, and any other plot I'm missing outside of Cersei's political games didn't even need to be in the show. They could have had all the character deaths and motivations without creating a magical destiny plot that ultimately falls apart. The fact that they switched all of the themes of the show last night is the problem. It feels like all the stuff that was supposed to be brought full circle was just ended half way.

I'm glad that people like you who prefer the politics of the show and never cared about the dead plotline still have something to look forward to, but there's no denying that changing the direction of the show in the last season without tying up all of the threads they started is a poor climax to the story that literally started the show.

[Jinsai]

@zecho (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1086), you're talking about what "should have happened" like it was destiny... I'm not going to be upset if "the prophecy" is dropped, or whatever. After all, it's what life's like more or less: a bunch of events that may or may not seem connected, but often wind up delivering red herrings.

Just like how Rob's never going to teach young Eddard Stark to ride horses...

[Wretchedest]

The night Kings death IS the culmination of bran and Aryas arcs though. They didn't defeat him in the course of one night. They defeated him over the course of years of hard work. It's the payoff of all those plotlines and character arcs. I think it's bizarre to act like this character died in a vacuum. Tons of shit built up to this which is bizarrely all the shit that you are descir ing as meaningless.

Your talking about this wrapping up with three episodes to go as though they aren't supposed to tie literally everything up I this period of time

[Mantra]

The overarching theme of the show was the hubris of Westeros ignoring the dead to play a political game that ultimately won't matter when the true danger arrives. The fact that they threw that out the window, ignoring all prophecies and lore development, is the problem, not that the Night King is dead.

Yeah I feel like you hit the nail on the head with this.

I always imagined that they'd do something sort of like: second to last season is a war for the iron throne, and final season is an epic war with the white walkers. Or something like that. I'm really not wanting to go down some road of "Well here's what MY plan would have been if *I* was a big successful filmmaker instead some internet loser."

I'm just trying to think through why it is that, even though I'm enjoying myself, something feels slightly off about the large scale pacing and plotting of this whole show. I'm looking forward to the time when this is all over and enough time has gone by that I can look back at the whole thing with a bit more objectivity. I have a feeling that I'll end up feeling that they fucked up a little bit on the pacing, taking it too slow in the early seasons and then getting way too rushed at the end. It still blows me away that all these crucial final stories are only getting six episodes, and yet they devoted an entire season to Dany just wasting time in that dumb desert city in season two. They probably needed to move things just a little faster in the early seasons so that they wouldn't have to rush the end. Either that or they should have gone for one more season. Maybe then the big apocalyptic showdown with the white walkers wouldn't have felt like it concluded just as it was getting started.

[Jord]

It's funny because episode 2 could almost be classified as filler as it was just characters hanging out basically. And it was much more enjoyable.

Weird. but I have been saying this! I've had a different opinion that my girlfriend and her sisters and a couple of other friends. Maybe I was expecting too much from this episode? I thought it was a giant cop out that Arya killed the NK - this big baddie with his army that's been coming for a few seasons now just walks in and gets killed like that? How Jaime, Brienne & everyone survived just like that out there? They mentioned there'd be a few moments on par with the red wedding this season but that has yet to happen.

Again maybe I was expecting too much this episode, and I'm forgetting there's still three episodes left to wrap the other stuff up. I am desperate to know what's going to happen between John & Daenerys!

[chuckrh]

arya rocks!

[sweeterthan]

It’s not game of death. It’s game of thrones. The night king was never a real contender for the throne. It’s been set up from episode one that Arya would be the one to kill him. She sneaks up on Jon at the tree in the first episode. Bran gave her the dagger last season. it was her the whole time.

[OSLIN]

I'm glad that people like you who prefer the politics of the show and never cared about the dead plotline still have something to look forward to, but there's no denying that changing the direction of the show in the last season without tying up all of the threads they started is a poor climax to the story that literally started the show.

Tend to agree with most of this, the motto of the show was basically Winter is Coming and it came and went out with a resounding thud. I guess Arya's new nickname is Global Warming (wacha wacha). I didn't mind her getting the kill, I just think a lot of the plot was forced early due to a short season arc. Every main character survived in the tens of thousands that lost their lives. It's almost lazy writing to an extent. They should have killed off Bran and let Arya jump in a little too late. Then let her deal with the grief of being a second too late. Gives the moment a little more depth and gives the NK some sort of purpose.

We will see where this goes. Was hoping Arya would be the one to take down the mountain, but I have a feeling the Hound will be taking himself and the mountain out Rocky 2 style. Cersai is gonna retain the throne and people are gonna hate it. It's fun to sit and theorize. Enjoying the season thus far, just think it would have benefited with a few more episodes, I may think differently in hindsight but from what I've seen so far I don't want it to end. Next week will be them gathering whatever troops they have left. Then the penultimate episode will be Westeros battle and then the finale. Seems like too much story with not enough episodes. We shall see.

[neorev]

I thought it was great. That is all. Thanks for your time.

[marodi]

I can see it now: the camera slowly zooms in on a patch of dirt...suddenly, the night king's icy fist comes punching up out of the ground!!

No, no! The Night King's soul/spirit/essence/whatever was transferred into Bran during their epic stare down!

Seriously though, the NK was many thousands year old so this battle was not his first rodeo. He was created by the Children of the Forest as a weapon in their war against the First Men but he turned on them, forcing the Children and the Men into an alliance to fight him and the White Walkers. Bran explained his goal in episode 2: the NK wants to kill the 3ER so the memory of men is erased, therefore sending the world into an endless night.

In other words: the NK was Ultron.

And in retrospect, all the signs that Arya was destined to pull an Éowyn were there.

When Dany burned all the wights around Jon, I was wondering if she was also trying to test out his resistance to fire; him being a Targaryen and all. But do you who who proved to be fire resistant? The Night King.

As for the inconsistencies and the lacks in the narrative, I put all the blame on Martin. He must have given the showrunners the very basics of where his story was going (who killed the NK, who ends up on the Iron Throne) but he must have kept the rest for himself. Bastard.
Jinsai I think I saw that about Gilly too. I still hope she made it.

But good news: apparently, people with bionic eyes saw Ghost very much alive in next week's episode's preview.

Also: if they both make it alive in the end, I totally see Sansa and Tyrion ending up together.

[Mantra]

Man, that was a fucking GREAT episode.

[sweeterthan]

Man, that was a fucking GREAT episode.

All I can say is daaaaaayuuuuuuum.


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[Mr. Blaileen]

The first half of the episode was me thinking ‘This is bullshit. Don’t. Caaaaare’

Then the second half started.

Crazy shit.

[Mantra]

The first half was fun. So many great jokes and interesting interactions between characters. Loved the scene of Dany watching the room and noticing how everyone is acting different towards each other (and even more specifically with Jon) than with her. Also this ...

Jon: "Vomiting is not celebrating."
Tormund: Yes it is."

[chuckrh]

song for jamie


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAk4OAAzZBs

[MrLobster]

https://twitter.com/JorCru/status/1125284156773003265

[Boots]

I honestly tried to get into this show and and I watched until the end of Season 5. I just found that there were way too many characters to keep track of. Too many kings, queens, lords, cities, and peoples. The supernatural element only added to the confusion-- for me anyway.

At first I thought the iron throne was just a contest between Daenarys and the Lannisters/Baratheons. Then came along Stannis and the Boultons. I could never figure out if Winterfell was its own kingdom or how King's Landing controlled everyone else. Did they ever mention the names of all the kingdoms? Also, I heard that Arya came out of nowhere and killed the Night King. How was that even possible and why HER?

[sweeterthan]

The first half of the episode was me thinking ‘This is bullshit. Don’t. Caaaaare’

Then the second half started.

Crazy shit.

I loved the first half but I’m sappy like that. My husband was definitely like this would never happen in the books” about Jamie and Brienne.


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[valiantsteed]

All I wanna know is where the fuck was poor mangled Ghost's pets and goodbye? He gets a head nod? That's ice cold, even for Winterfell.

[ltrandazzo]

All I wanna know is where the fuck was poor mangled Ghost's pets and goodbye? He gets a head nod? That's ice cold, even for Winterfell.

Jon Snow didn't do his dog a solid and Varys thinks he can be the King? Fuck that noise.

[Jinsai]

So.... I say Jamie’s riding off to assassinate Cersei. Or is that too obvious?

[RJK]

So.... I say Jamie’s riding off to assassinate Cersei. Or is that too obvious?That's literally what I said when he heard the news of the ambush

[ltrandazzo]

So.... I say Jamie’s riding off to assassinate Cersei. Or is that too obvious?

Yeah. He's not heading back into her arms. He's the Kingslayer for a reason. I think the question is who gets to Cersei first - Arya, Jaime, Grey Worm, or someone else? We have three contenders right now.

[sweeterthan]

All I wanna know is where the fuck was poor mangled Ghost's pets and goodbye? He gets a head nod? That's ice cold, even for Winterfell.

I think it’s to show he no longer identifies with the wolf. He’s a dragon now.


Yeah. He's not heading back into her arms. He's the Kingslayer for a reason. I think the question is who gets to Cersei first - Arya, Jaime, Grey Worm, or someone else? We have three contenders right now.
Jaime is definitely going to fight against Cersei. My personal theory is she will kill Jamie and Arya will use his face to kill her.

[Jord]

I don't get the hate for this episode, I loved it more than last weeks. All I've read is bad reviews online and people saying it's the worst episode of the show so far, even saying it features xenophobia and racism?!?

[ltrandazzo]

I don't get the hate for this episode, I loved it more than last weeks. All I've read is bad reviews online and people saying it's the worst episode of the show so far, even saying it features xenophobia and racism?!?

Folks wanting to throw plot armor around Missandei because she's the only WOC on the show is missing the point that the show itself fucked this up years ago by not casting folks other than a majority of white people to play all of the prominent roles. Her death was horrible to see but ultimately fits the flow - one side, the bad side, executes a person in a prominent position in the opposing side and someone who's known to be a close confidant of their leader. It's done to throw them off of their focus and to get them to make rash decisions, which is what it looks like could be about to happen.

[marodi]

The scene between Sansa and the Hound was great. She has learned a lot from Littlefinger, hasn't she? Poor Tyrion will never recover from the moral conflict he's in.

I agree that Jaime is going back to stop/kill Cersei. But he became a Kingslayer to stop the Mad King from burning down King's Landing; I wonder what he will do when he learns that daddy's little girl is planning to do the same?

I would like to point out that the Hound and Arya have left Winterfell before everyone else. They should be pretty close to their destination right now. Are we getting the Cleganebowl next week or in the final episode?

As for Jon Snow: I get that it's symbolic that he left Ghost behind and anyway, bad things happen to direwolves in King's Landing but I still want to kick him in the balls. Who always loved you unconditionally; who never cared about who you were; who stood by you in life and in death, you fucking idiot? You did not deserve Ghost. And you look pretty stupid now that you left him for a dragon who is now dead, don't you? Sorry Rhaegal, I was sad to see you go.

Also: Euron is a moron.

[Jinsai]

...and while prophecy could totally be a red herring, and I'd be fine with that, but if Jamie kills Cersei, it fits the prophecy if he was the second-born of the twins.

[sweeterthan]

...and while prophecy could totally be a red herring, and I'd be fine with that, but if Jamie kills Cersei, it fits the prophecy if he was the second-born of the twins.

If Arya kills Cersei with Jamie’s face, the prophecy still fits too.

[kdrcraig]

I really enjoyed this week's episode, at this point waiting for the end is what's really driving me nuts. I WANT IT NOW.

I also rewatched The Long Night with the On Demand copy and it definitely seemed a lot brighter than the original broadcast. I could see a bunch of stuff I know I couldn't watching it live. Greatly changed my opinion of the episode when I could actually see what the hell was going on.

[Wretchedest]

Arya spent quite a lot of plot tokens, though I'd be surprised if she accomplishes much else

[chuckrh]

https://twitter.com/JorCru/status/1125284156773003265

it's like the holy hand grenade of antioch!

a queen does need her pumpkin spice lattes!

[ricardo]

SPOILERS!!!! Another bad episode. Don't see them turning this around in just 2 episodes.

Euron is a cartoon villain. His smile after killing the dragon was pathetically bad.

From villains like Geofrey and Ramsay to drunk Cersei and horny Pirate. Lol.

There's no more nudity, sex scenes and the decapitation was "filmed" from like 2 kilometers away. They showed fucking Nedd Stark's beheading from inches away.

This is probably the worst ending to a great show I have ever seen.

[chuckrh]

SPOILERS!!!! Another bad episode. Don't see them turning this around in just 2 episodes.

Euron is a cartoon villain. His smile after killing the dragon was pathetically bad.

From villains like Geofrey and Ramsay to drunk Cersei and horny Pirate. Lol.

There's no more nudity, sex scenes and the decapitation was "filmed" from like 2 kilometers away. They showed fucking Nedd Stark's beheading from inches away.

This is probably the worst ending to a great show I have ever seen.

did you watch the last season of "house of cards"?

[ricardo]

did you watch the last season of "house of cards"?
Nope, I'm not that into watching TV series. Is that bad as well?

I just finished the 3rd season of The Man in the High Castle though and it was really good. If they screw with it in the 4th season I think I'm done with the format.

[sweeterthan]

Let’s stay on topic.


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[Mantra]

Euron does suck. It's like a character from some other shitty show got cut and pasted into GOT. But comparing him against Ramsay doesn't make much sense to me. Ramsay was one of the worst written characters the show has ever had. Every single scene with him was so cheesy and cartoonish. Euron is a garbage character, but at least he doesn't get enough screen time for me to get that worked up about him.

[Jinsai]

can someone please give me a reasonable explanation for why Tyrion wasn't shot down when he approached the gate alone? If Cersei wanted to keep things civil, she wouldn't have beheaded Missandei while Tyrion was standing there alone and exposed.

I thought for sure Tyrion was dead right there. This leaves me at an odd dilemma: Is Tyrion compromised into Cersei's service, or was that just TERRIBLE writing?

[henryeatscereal]

can someone please give me a reasonable explanation for why Tyrion wasn't shot down when he approached the gate alone? If Cersei wanted to keep things civil, she wouldn't have beheaded Missandei while Tyrion was standing there alone and exposed.

I thought for sure Tyrion was dead right there. This leaves me at an odd dilemma: Is Tyrion compromised into Cersei's service, or was that just TERRIBLE writing?
As Tyrion said: Cersei is not a monster, he appealed to Cercei's human side and she heard him, plus i'm sure she wants him to suffer before he dies..

[bobbie solo]

My husband was definitely like this would never happen in the books” about Jamie and Brienne.

ask him why? Never read the books.

[Mantra]

can someone please give me a reasonable explanation for why Tyrion wasn't shot down when he approached the gate alone? If Cersei wanted to keep things civil, she wouldn't have beheaded Missandei while Tyrion was standing there alone and exposed.

I thought for sure Tyrion was dead right there. This leaves me at an odd dilemma: Is Tyrion compromised into Cersei's service, or was that just TERRIBLE writing?

I thought so too at first, but then again, Cersei has had multiple opportunities to kill Tyrion and has repeatedly chosen not to. In particular, there was that one scene in the very last season where Tyrion visited her to talk her into making a deal with Dany. She had the mountain right there with his hand on his sword and Tyrion was even daring her to do it, but she didn't. She obviously hates his guts and does want him dead (her deal with Bronn), but for some reason whenever he's right there in front of her and the time has come for her to strike him down, she can't seem to go through with it. Personally, I don't think this means that she actually cares for him in any meaningful way, but I think that killing her own brother in such a direct way would violate her sense of Lanister loyalty, which is one of the few moral codes she lives by. I feel like she would love to hear that Tyrion had died somewhere far away, but she doesn't want to be the one who pulls the trigger right there.

Or it could just be terrible writing, who knows.

[Jinsai]

As Tyrion said: Cersei is not a monster, he appealed to Cercei's human side and she heard him, plus i'm sure she wants him to suffer before he dies..

But surely you can see the contradiction here mid-sentence!!!!

And as others have said, she has had the opportunity to do it before, but not in front of others; an audience that she wanted to mock so bad she beheaded Dany's closest attendant in front of her. Also, slow poison has a plot point here; Tyrion is straight up STUPID to be affording her this opportunity. What would change?

Cersei: Oh, you impetuous imp... you dare me.... but here, let me cut off Missendei's head and smirk as if to say "and what'ya gonna do bout it?" What would be to stop Cersei from then screaming out "archers, aim for his balls" and then walk away smiling (while thinking about him bleeding to death from multiple arrows to the crotch).

So... because I choose not to chalk this up to just REALLY bad writing... I choose to believe that this is a hint at a huge major plot twist, wherein Tyrion is actually compromised by Cersei and is secretly in her employ at this part. We won't find out about till the crucial moment where the dramatic piano music starts playing and Tyrion turns to Dany and says, in a booming and doomy voice "A Lannister always pays his debts"

Ultimate plot twist! There's a REASON Tyrion's been giving Dany awful advice lately that's uncommon and stupid for him to get behind, and it relates to him telling Varys that it's treason to say bad things about Dany.... he's a plant waiting to betray her, and the gesture by the gate where he had Cersei pretend to think bout killing him was all a ruse...

Either that, or terrible writing. I'm not sure which I'd prefer.

[henryeatscereal]

But surely you can see the contradiction here mid-sentence!!!!

Yes indeed, just like my sentence Cersei is a contradictory character...

She hates Tyrion, but in a weird way she also respects him, she knows he's better dead but she also has a code and respects Tyrion as an opponent.

I don't think it's bad writing as much as the James Bond movies or any Tarantino film and people never complaint, so...

[Jinsai]

I think everyone has said, at some point while watching a Bond movie, "why does he need the elaborate kill mechanism when he could easily just shoot James Bond in the face?"

But Bond movies are a different beast right? Cersei is a monster, she didn't mourn her only decent son because he killed himself. She's selfish, and he's supposed to be smart enough to see it. Maybe he needs to see some of what we've seen; her delighting in having the mom watch her daughter decompose in front her while she's force fed...

She put out a reward for Tyrion's head!!!! She couldn't have anticipated that wouldn't "work."

[sweeterthan]

I think everyone has said, at some point while watching a Bond movie, "why does he need the elaborate kill mechanism when he could easily just shoot James Bond in the face?"

But Bond movies are a different beast right? Cersei is a monster, she didn't mourn her only decent son because he killed himself. She's selfish, and he's supposed to be smart enough to see it. Maybe he needs to see some of what we've seen; her delighting in having the mom watch her daughter decompose in front her while she's force fed...

She put out a reward for Tyrion's head!!!! She couldn't have anticipated that wouldn't "work."

I definitely thought Cersei mourned Tomin. How do you get that she didn’t?

[Jinsai]

I definitely thought Cersei mourned Tomin. How do you get that she didn’t?

I thought when she saw his dead body, she declared that he not receive the honor of being buried with his brother and sister?

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Is Tyrion compromised into Cersei's service, or was that just TERRIBLE writing?

Nah... bad writing I'd say, like almost half of this season so far has suffered from. I would like to be proven wrong, but this season has fallen into the tropey category for me. When Missendei was revealed to be kidnapped, I couldn't do anything but role my eyes.

Very uncharacteristic season for GoT, with last night's episode being one of my most hated of the series. This ride is subpar so far.

[Jinsai]

Nah... bad writing I'd say, like almost half of this season so far has suffered from. I would like to be proven wrong, but this season has fallen into the tropey category for me. When Missendei was revealed to be kidnapped, I couldn't do anything but role my eyes.

Very uncharacteristic season for GoT, with last night's episode being one of my most hated of the series. This ride is subpar so far.

I'm tempered with my expectations, and I LOVED the battle of Winterfell... any issues I have there fall to the side of that being maybe the most impressive episode of TV I've ever seen.

But this, it just invites some "WTF REALLY?" criticism, and we're down to the last 3 and a half hours here... I hate being that guy, but we don't have time for this shit, and that moment was just DUMB.

Unlesss... if Tyrion turns out to be Cersei's secret bff.... I am secretly hoping this is the big plot twist at this point. Because otherwise, that was just stupid.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

I'm tempered with my expectations, and I LOVED the battle of Winterfell... any issues I have there fall to the side of that being maybe the most impressive episode of TV I've ever seen.

But this, it just invites some "WTF REALLY?" criticism, and we're down to the last 3 and a half hours here... I hate being that guy, but we don't have time for this shit, and that moment was just DUMB.

Unlesss... if Tyrion turns out to be Cersei's secret bff.... I am secretly hoping this is the big plot twist at this point. Because otherwise, that was just stupid.

I agree 100% with the battle. I've never had an episode of TV that made me feel what I did during that entire battle, even if the end really disappointed me.

I can understand when Tyrion was giving Cersei the benefit of the doubt when he thought that she would send her troops to Winterfell, but once he found out this was a ruse, I expected him to really throw that thought out of the window. Did he REALLY think that he could take sense into her?? When he said "Surrender the throne" I literally started laughing, so your big twist theory isn't that bad.

One more little gripe that has been really annoying me is whyyyyyy can we not get at least ONE scene with Jon interacting with Ghost? Or anyone for that matter. It really baffles me, and I would love to hear some sort of bs explanation from the writers.

Edit: After thinking more about the episode, what in the hell was with that editing choice to completely cut out to black right before Bran was about to spill the beans on Jon and Dany?? Such a huge reveal to his family, and they deprive us of that as well.

[Jinsai]

If GRRM is listening while trying to figure out how to end these books here you go: no part where everyone who should know way better gives her an opening with no win in sight worth the risk, and that involves the whole dumb mission to capture a walker to show her (and getting a dragon taken over by the night king in the process)

[M1ke]

This has felt like two episodes in a row where I was disappointed.

The ending of the battle I didn't like, and this one just didn't feel right.

The first half was great, but then the pacing immediately went out the window and they crammed a lot into the last part of it. Would it have been too much to ask to have an episode of getting ready to march south, an episode with them trying to get into Kings Landing with similar outcomes and then an episode where they lay siege (assuming that's what they do next week)?

I'm probably just still disappointed from having the wind taken out of my sails after the battle. I kind of lost all my excitement to see how this ends, and so I wasn't really invested in watching them attack King's Landing anymore. I stopped caring about Jon's reveal to his sisters, I didn't care when the dragon was shot down, I was confused as they were all crawling out of the sea, especially after seeing Tyrion take a crazy blow to the head while swimming and somehow not drowning, I didn't care when Tyrion went to talk to Cersei and I wasn't even really bothered when Messandri was killed.

I'm really hoping they can turn this around, but it's all just feeling kind of random at this point. Almost like they decided to have an ambush and then threw darts at a board to decide which character to kill. There was no reason it needed to be Messandri getting killed there, they could have picked anyone else who was on one of their boats and it would have made just as much sense. And they could have put anyone they wanted to onto a boat.

It would have maybe been more interesting if Dany had found out Jon let his secret out, and then he was kidnapped and threatened at the gate instead of Messandri. There's some internally tension there for Dany at least. And there's no reason why he couldn't have been on one of the boats and that couldn't have happened. There's also no reason it couldn't have been Greyworm getting beheaded, or Tyrion.

All of these theories, and prophecies and thinking just seem to be being thrown out the window in favour of random things that are maybe supposed to be shocking? I'm not really sure anymore. Ned losing his head was shocking, but it fit. The Red Wedding was the same. So was Joeffrey dying at his wedding. Tyrion killing Tywin and escaping King's Landing. Hodor's backstory, The Night King raising an undead dragon. These are all moments that I didn't see coming, but also felt like I was seeing something new and having a light shone on something that had always been present but I hadn't understood before.

The unexpected moments this season haven't felt illuminating like that.

I hope this can be turned around still, but the last two episodes have felt disappointing.

[theimage13]

Finally had the time to watch ep 4. All I can say is....

What??

The internet seems to be really freaking out about this episode and calling it the worst thing they've ever seen. Calling it racist. Calling it misogynistic. Calling it all sorts of things that...well, that completely baffle me.

As far as I'm concerned, this was a refreshing return to what the show has been about all along - not just "oh shit zombies", but all the lands fighting against each other and trying to take the Iron Throne. Strategy and backstabbing and betrayal and sociopathic nonsense and what have you. If that stuff never bothered you for the last seven years, then why is it suddenly such a big deal?

I liked it. The opening part was a little *yawn* to me because I just really, really dislike drunk people, but I get why it was included. I liked the emphasis on strategy and the infighting and the whole "people finally saying something about Dany being a tyrant" thing.

[Jord]

Finally had the time to watch ep 4. All I can say is....

What??

The internet seems to be really freaking out about this episode and calling it the worst thing they've ever seen. Calling it racist. Calling it misogynistic. Calling it all sorts of things that...well, that completely baffle me.

As far as I'm concerned, this was a refreshing return to what the show has been about all along - not just "oh shit zombies", but all the lands fighting against each other and trying to take the Iron Throne. Strategy and backstabbing and betrayal and sociopathic nonsense and what have you. If that stuff never bothered you for the last seven years, then why is it suddenly such a big deal?

I liked it. The opening part was a little *yawn* to me because I just really, really dislike drunk people, but I get why it was included. I liked the emphasis on strategy and the infighting and the whole "people finally saying something about Dany being a tyrant" thing.


You've pretty much hit the nail on the head with the majority of this, I don't get why people are so up in arms. It's a fictional show that depicts total and utter fiction, there's no secret agendas or anything. It was a fantastic episode that's really setting up quite a showdown now.

I'm pretty pissed that I've been reading articles about GRRM moaning about how the show is going to end, how it isn't the way he would have wanted it to end ideally, and not what he had in mind, well maybe he should have finished the damn book already and maybe things would be different, instead of being however many years behind as he is.

[Jinsai]

I get it's fictional, but nothing excuses plot contrivances. I didn't hate the episode, it's just got some moments I think deserve some criticism.

[r_z]

terrible writing gets more and more apparent with each episode. so much potential wasted.

[chuckrh]

TOO FUNNY:

https://nypost.com/2019/05/07/hbo-removes-coffee-cup-from-game-of-thrones-scene/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark

[sweeterthan]

I thought when she saw his dead body, she declared that he not receive the honor of being buried with his brother and sister?

That’s right but she was pretty upset about his death. I definitely think she was mourning his loss.

[Jinsai]

she's a hard character to read... easier to read her intentions through the way she acts than how she pretends to feel?

I know, this is a fictional thing and it's silly on multiple levels to read it that way, but...

[sweeterthan]

she's a hard character to read... easier to read her intentions through the way she acts than how she pretends to feel?

I know, this is a fictional thing and it's silly on multiple levels to read it that way, but...

They frequently reference how much she loved her children. Tyrion brings it up all the time.

[Jinsai]

They frequently reference how much she loved her children. Tyrion brings it up all the time.

She's told other lies that people believe. I think her being a powerful liar is her greatest skill.

[sweeterthan]

She's told other lies that people believe. I think her being a powerful liar is her greatest skill.

she’s a bit of a monster so even if she loved them, it was that twisted kind of love that abusers give. She’s definitely a liar.

[Mantra]

Everyone is always saying (on the show and in real life) that Cersei loves her kids more than anything, but I feel like the shit with Tomyn really flies in the face of that idea. She essentially drove Tomyn to suicide. Tomyn was a somewhat emotionally fragile teenager, and Cersei fully knew this, and yet she went ahead and murdered the person that he was madly in love with. She valued political power over the well-being of her son. And sure, she probably never imagined that he would be so devastated that he'd jump out of a fucking window, but any caring, observant person would have seen that Tomyn had a certain sensitivity and that he would be completely heartbroken about Margery being killed. I feel like Cersei knew this but she just didn't give a shit. Winning the political power games were more important to her.

[Jinsai]

If Tyrion isn't a plot-twist plant for Cersei, then his biggest character flaw is idiotic hope
AND, Cersei has revealed a soft spot that's her death-star flaw too

[zecho]

Everyone is always saying (on the show and in real life) that Cersei loves her kids more than anything, but I feel like the shit with Tomyn really flies in the face of that idea. She essentially drove Tomyn to suicide. Tomyn was a somewhat emotionally fragile teenager, and Cersei fully knew this, and yet she went ahead and murdered the person that he was madly in love with. She valued political power over the well-being of her son. And sure, she probably never imagined that he would be so devastated that he'd jump out of a fucking window, but any caring, observant person would have seen that Tomyn had a certain sensitivity and that he would be completely heartbroken about Margery being killed. I feel like Cersei knew this but she just didn't give a shit. Winning the political power games were more important to her.


Cersei loved her kids more than everything but herself. She only cared for their well-being because they were hers. She killed Margery because her feelings about her were more important than his. Everyone that she loves, no matter how deeply, she only loves while they're in line with her. Case in point being Jaime. They were "born to be together" until he disagreed with her.

[theimage13]

I refuse to believe Cersei loves anything but power. I don't think she even loves herself; I think she's just a coward who is afraid of death and losing control.

[ricardo]

At this point Cersei is just a drunk milf that keeps staring at things with a disgusted face. This lady and the horny pirate are the final bosses of the series. And I can't think of a more anti-climatic pair of villains. I did like Cersei until some point.

[sweeterthan]

At this point Cersei is just a drunk milf that keeps staring at things with a disgusted face. This lady and the horny pirate are the final bosses of the series. And I can't think of a more anti-climatic pair of villains. I did like Cersei until some point.

Final boss? No. Dany and Jon are about to turn on each other. And I’m also thinking the night king is gonna show up again like surprise mother fucker! We’ve had no explanation on what he wanted with Bran so I feel like that’s still in play somehow.

[kdrcraig]

And I’m also thinking the night king is gonna show up again like surprise mother fucker! We’ve had no explanation on what he wanted with Bran so I feel like that’s still in play somehow.

They said he wanted to kill Bran because he is the memories of men and the Night King wanted to wipe out all traces of men. Something along those lines

[ricardo]

Final boss? No. Dany and Jon are about to turn on each other. And I’m also thinking the night king is gonna show up again like surprise mother fucker! We’ve had no explanation on what he wanted with Bran so I feel like that’s still in play somehow.

Sure hope so, my friend!


They said he wanted to kill Bran because he is the memories of men and the Night King wanted to wipe out all traces of men. Something along those lines

Yeah, I guess the explanation was given but it does feel anti-climatic. He could at least say something, tell him why he marked him or why he did that spiral thing to the kid on the 1st episode. I don't need obivous things to enjoy them but I expected much more from their encounter.

[ryanmcfly]

At this point Cersei is just a drunk milf that keeps staring at things with a disgusted face. This lady and the horny pirate are the final bosses of the series. And I can't think of a more anti-climatic pair of villains. I did like Cersei until some point.

Cersei is the same character she has always been. A great villain. I don't see what has changed over the last couple seasons. I feel like she's clearly been the main villain all season.

[marodi]

In which G.R.R. Martin shares his feelings about Game of Thrones coming to an end: https://ew.com/tv/2019/03/06/george-rr-martin-game-of-thrones-season-8-interview/

No spoilers, except for the fact that he needs to WRITE FASTER!

[M1ke]

I read something somewhere that compared it to Harry Potter.

Except if in book 6 Hermoine had killed Voldemort and Harry spent book 7 defeating the evil kids from slytherin in a quidditch match.

It kind of feels like that's what's happening. I'm hoping it can get turned around somehow, but I'm not enjoying it so much right now.

[Jord]

So now word is the whole things leaked online, the entire ending. I've not read any spoilers myself and I am desperately trying to avoid them.

[M1ke]

So now word is the whole things leaked online, the entire ending. I've not read any spoilers myself and I am desperately trying to avoid them, however twitter reactions are very disheartening.

I haven't seen the episodes themselves out there yet, but I've read supposed plot point discussions. They could be wrong, but they're coming from people who said things about episode 4 before it was released so it's lending them some credibility.

[sweeterthan]

A friendly reminder. No spoilers in this thread until the episode has aired. Thank you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bobbie solo]

I enjoyed last week's episode more having watched it a second time. The rapid pace & extreme pushes forward in time are still very jarring, and the complete ambush by Euron strained believability. I don't have an issue yet with any character motivations & decision making, but I am def. getting worried.

I think the thing everyone can agree on, no matter where you are on the spectrum of enjoyment of last season and this, is that both seasons would have benefited from a full ten episodes each, and perhaps even an abridged season 9. That way we could be hitting the same story beats the writers intended, but at the usual GoT pace (read: slooooow) we are comfortable with from season 1-6.

[neorev]

Huron's fleet was clearly hidden between two sets of islands on either side of them, giving them the ability to wait for when the Dragon Queen's fleet passes to strike.

[neorev]

Cersei is the same character she has always been. A great villain. I don't see what has changed over the last couple seasons. I feel like she's clearly been the main villain all season.

Exactly. Cersei is the real threat. I didn't find the Night King fight anti-climatic at all. We already had numerous smaller battles with him leading up to this. I like the fact you're like, hey they won... oh wait, this shit is far from over and we have someone even more ruthless to deal with.

[M1ke]

Exactly. Cersei is the real threat. I didn't find the Night King fight anti-climatic at all. We already had numerous smaller battles with him leading up to this. I like the fact you're like, hey they won... oh wait, this shit is far from over and we have someone even more ruthless to deal with.

Yep, we're less afraid of a zombie ice king than we are of a pregnant woman and a pirate.

Maybe that's supposed to be a comment on society......

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

Watching these after-show behind the scenes clips is so headache-inducing sometimes.

”I’m a writer/producer for this episode, and I’m here to spend 10 minutes recounting every event in the episode to you in case your eyes and ears were taped shut for the past hour. Cersei did this, cuz Cersei bad, but on the other hand, Dany do this, cuz Dany good. And I think it’s good that bad do bad and good do good!”

Fucking actually provide some insight into the episode or get the fuck away from the camera.

[Jinsai]

So now word is the whole things leaked online, the entire ending. I've not read any spoilers myself and I am desperately trying to avoid them.

and this HAD to happen didn't it.... why couldn't they just release the season the way Netflix does....

[Jord]

and this HAD to happen didn't it.... why couldn't they just release the season the way Netflix does....

It would be great. Since tuning in from S5, the hype has grown and grown and with this season it's at fever pitch, and it's on at the worst time for people like me in the UK, so I've got to go to work every Monday and avoid the internet like the plague until I can get home and watch.

[Mantra]

Yeah I'm pretty sure I had this whole thing spoiled for me, and it's a bummer, but I'm still going to try and enjoy the ride. Plus part of me is hoping that these spoilers are actually fake and have just been planted by HBO to throw people off.

[theimage13]

and this HAD to happen didn't it.... why couldn't they just release the season the way Netflix does....

Ah yes, victim blaming. Why couldn't they have just modified their behaviors and not done what they wanted, so that people with bad intentions couldn't do bad things anymore?

Releasing them all at once doesn't stop leaks, FYI. Just makes it easier to spoil the entire season in one go if something bad happens.

And if they did drop them all at one, people who have jobs and hobbies and responsibilities and can't just watch 8-10 hours of TV in one night would end up needing to avoid social media and news sites for weeks until they could finish the entire series. Airing them a week at a time makes it much easier for people to stay current and not have to worry about going into isolation just to avoid someone else ruining it for them.

[theimage13]

Yep, we're less afraid of a zombie ice king than we are of a pregnant woman and a pirate.

Maybe that's supposed to be a comment on society......

God knows I fear pregnant women more than zombies.

[Mantra]

Pretty intense episode

Pretty depressing too

[M1ke]

Holy shit.....that did match the spoilers, but the execution was phenomenal.

I am back on the hype train now.

Wow....that was incredible.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Way too fucking easy for Cersei... Dany has a straight path to light her up, but... plot armor.

They did a good job with giving that feeling of claustrophobia almost the entire time. I enjoyed this episode, but it was quite predictable in some cases.

[Wretchedest]

They really wanted to drive home how crazy Dany is in this one, mission accomplished

[Mantra]

I liked it a lot, but I'm also definitely in the camp of people who feel like Dany's transition has been just a little too quick. I feel like they spent the whole show establishing a certain idealism with Dany. Yeah, she's power hungry and demands loyalty, but she never stopped talking about how much she cared for the common people. It's just crazy to me that she's suddenly burning children alive as they flee in the streets.

[sweeterthan]

Nah. Her madness has been there the whole time. She fell in love with her rapist. She walked into a fire. She’s fucking her nephew. She’s lost her trusted advisors and no one loves her the way they love Jon. She can’t take anymore. She snapped.

I definitely think Cersei got off too easy. I wanted Arya to do it so bad. But I guess Arya’s going for dany now.

[Wretchedest]

I don't think it was too quick for her. It's not like Dolores in Westworld, they've been working this up for quite a while. Now Jon's got to pay the bill.


Jon is such a vacuous idiot, too, he always looks like he wasnt paying paying attention and is thinking about something else when someone is talking to him. He's the ultimate ditz.

I think Arya earned her plot armor by bot killing Cercei, that's the trade.

[sonic_discord]

Amazing episode! I don't understand the people that have complained about this season being sub-par. Too many people bitch about the table-setting episodes being "slow," but they're just making the episodes like this one and The Long Night that much more impactful and action-packed. I'm also too emotionally drained to express my feelings on this episode at the moment. I thought I knew how things were going to play out, but they've keep me guessing and have never disappointed me!

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

Even after reading aaall the spoilers, that was a fucking RIDE. I’ll admit the season’s had a couple of major hang-ups for me (a serious love-hate relationship with plot armor right now), but given that we’re winding down and they’re trying to cram as much as they can into 6 episodes, I’m willing to let it slide and let myself enjoy the sheer production value of this show. I want to say more, but I’m not gonna elaborate any further regarding the final episode. SERIOUSLY, BE SUPER CAREFUL AROUND THE INTERNET THIS WEEK!

Heres to hoping that the 497 spinoffs can carry at least some of the momentum!

On a related note, a resident at the place I work moved out a while back and left behind a complete (well, so far) box set of the book series behind and didn’t claim them after 30 days, so...I now have some reading to do!

Oh and (episode 5 spoiler) CLEGANE BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWL! I had myself a drink.

[bobbie solo]

I don't necessarily think Cersei & Jamie are dead. If you watch the sit-down with D&D after the episode, they do NOT say that they're dead or that they died at the end of that scene, and they do discuss it in relative depth. And to contrast that, they state clearly that both Cleganes die at the end of their scene.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W8j6wOvxuo&ab_channel=GameofThrones

That would be my only gripe of the episode if that is in fact how they killed off Cersei. She can't die by ROCKS after all the shit she's done on the show. That would be weak.

Sure the good part of my soul is bummed that they decided to write it that Dany has gone in this more evil direction, but it's not like this is some big surprise. They have been teasing the potential for this since season 1.

And to echo Wretchedest, Jon still truly knows nothing.

[Wretchedest]

It would be cool if definitely uncharacteristic if their fate were left for the audience to decide

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

If they survived that cave in... I'm done.

[chuckrh]

wow, that was mighty violent. still digesting it...

[sweeterthan]

At this point, we’re all done. This is the end. Only one episode left. I loved last night’s episode even tho nothing I thought would happen did.


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[Mantra]

It seems clear to me that Martin simply gave them the end point and they fucked up by not putting in the work to justify this outcome. Dany has always been a complex character and had plenty of moments where the ethics of her actions fell into a questionable/morally grey area, but there's nothing the show has set up to make me think, "Yeah, I can totally see Dany butchering hordes of innocent civilians as they flee for their lives in the streets." It's just too extreme of a jump, imo.

[Boots]

The thing that bothered me the most about this series was the assassination of Daenerys's character. She was a fan favorite and a role model for young women for so many years. At least I didn't name a child after her.

[M1ke]

It seems clear to me that Martin simply gave them the end point and they fucked up by not putting in the work to justify this outcome. Dany has always been a complex character and had plenty of moments where the ethics of her actions fell into a questionable/morally grey area, but there's nothing the show has set up to make me think, "Yeah, I can totally see Dany butchering hordes of innocent civilians as they flee for their lives in the streets." It's just too extreme of a jump, imo.

It was her conversation with Jon at the start of the episode that sold it for me. She wants to rule through love, but nobody loves her anymore.

Jorrah is dead. Missandrei is dead. Jon might love her, but he's not down with the whole incest thing. The people in the north don't trust her, they trust Jon. Cersei has convinced the city that she's an invading usurper so the people of kings landing hate her. She's lost 2 dragons fighting for the people of Westeros and has nothing to show for it.

So she chose to rule by fear instead. And she's inspiring fear now. She associates herself with freedom and breaking chains, and is too hurt by what's happened to her to realize that stops being true if she rules by fear. The association of herself as a freedom bringer is enabling her to take extreme actions to take power, and is blinding her to how her actions are preventing that from happening.

[sonic_discord]

It seems clear to me that Martin simply gave them the end point and they fucked up by not putting in the work to justify this outcome. Dany has always been a complex character and had plenty of moments where the ethics of her actions fell into a questionable/morally grey area, but there's nothing the show has set up to make me think, "Yeah, I can totally see Dany butchering hordes of innocent civilians as they flee for their lives in the streets." It's just too extreme of a jump, imo.

It's almost as if she finally snapped after experiencing a series of traumatic events like witnessing the death of several of her closest friends (who were also the ones to constantly talk sense into her and kept her from acting on her worst impulses, by the way) and "children" (her dragons) and filled her with blinding rage, which she acted on once there was no one was left to rein her in. It also runs in the family and has been hinted at many times in the past. I'll be honest and say that I didn't actually think they'd take it this far. Up until this season started I thought they'd probably have her take the throne in the end, but they HAVE been chipping away at how likable and "good" she is for roughly a year now.

[ricardo]

I'm watching for the laughs at this point. In one episode, the Iron Fleet easily takes down a dragon. VERY easily. Last night's episode: One dragon destroys the whole fleet (and fires explosives upon the whole city) very easily. It's like every new episode makes the last one completely useless.

I'm not the kind of person to nitpick on everything. Especially the physics of a fantasy show. But last week they were firing arrows at the dragons almost non-stop. From a boat.

On land, they seemed to struggle getting the weapons ready and the dragon seemed much more powerful now. He could have destroyed that fleet easily last week.

Actually, if her other dragon got killed in last night's episode making Daenerys lose her mind, it would have made more sense.

This is bad writing and it's a shame what happened to this show. It's like they read all good fan-made finales and decided to do the exact opposite just out of spite or ego.

GoT always shocked me somehow. Now what's is shocking is how bad it has become.

[sonic_discord]

The thing that bothered me the most about this series was the assassination of Daenerys's character. She was a fan favorite and a role model for young women for so many years. At least I didn't name a child after her.

I don't know how young you meant by "young women," but anyone young enough to be impressionable and easily influenced by a character like this should NOT be watching this show to begin with. Ned Stark was a role model too and they chopped his fucking head off in episode 9. Can anyone REALLY be that surprised? There's a lesson here: Absolute power corrupts absolutely. And power is the ONLY things Daenerys has ever wanted. It even trumped her love of Jon Snow.

[Jinsai]

I get why they had Dany burn the whole town; it provided a point of no return for her character losing it, but WHY? When the bells rang, why not just ride the dragon up to the red keep and burn it down and call it a day? Just seemed totally unnecessarily.

[marodi]

Apparently this is making the rounds on the net right now:


I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. - Revelation, 6:8

Honestly I still don't know what to think about last night's episode. All I can think about is that Tyrion was the only one looking out for the innocent people. It was heartbreaking to see him stare at that bell, hoping its ringing would save them but no. And in my book, of all the characters that are left, Tyrion is the only one who is worthy of sitting on the Iron Throne.

[Jinsai]

The white horse at the end of the episode that Arya is riding off on is shown dead in an earlier shot. People have compared markings and apparently it's the same horse that the Lannister commander was riding (and you see the horse get flung dead onto the ground).

I thought at first that this was implying some kind of death trip for Arya, but who knows. I'm trying to avoid final episode spoilers
marodi, they had several shots of Jon trying to stop the slaughter, though they registered as kind of pathetic and impossible in the context. He at least had a few highlighted moments of him "trying to do the right thing."

[sonic_discord]

I'm watching for the laughs at this point. In one episode, the Iron Fleet easily takes down a dragon. VERY easily. Last night's episode: One dragon destroys the whole fleet (and fires explosives upon the whole city) very easily. It's like every new episode makes the last one completely useless.

I'm not the kind of person to nitpick on everything. Especially the physics of a fantasy show. But last week they were firing arrows at the dragons almost non-stop. From a boat.

On land, they seemed to struggle getting the weapons ready and the dragon seemed much more powerful now. He could have destroyed that fleet easily last week.

Actually, if her other dragon got killed in last night's episode making Daenerys lose her mind, it would have made more sense.

This is bad writing and it's a shame what happened to this show. It's like they read all good fan-made finales and decided to do the exact opposite just out of spite or ego.

GoT always shocked me somehow. Now what's is shocking is how bad it has become.

I actually think is boils down to the fact that in last week's episode, Euron and the Iron Fleet caught her off guard in an ambush. This time around, it was the Iron Fleet that was caught off guard and unprepared. They did make a point to show how slowly those "Scorpion" ballistas turn and rotate when they need to adjust their aim.

[ricardo]

I actually think is boils down to the fact that in last week's episode, Euron and the Iron Fleet caught her off guard in an ambush. This time around, it was the Iron Fleet that was caught off guard and unprepared. They did make a point to show how slowly those "Scorpion" ballistas turn and rotate when they need to adjust their aim.

Yeah, even then... poor writing IMO. Just the fact she was caught off guard is stupid enough. One of the writers actually said Dany kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet. That's just stupid. And they were not off guard, they were all looking at the sky for her. The Dragon was much quicker in this episode than the previous one.

The creatures/weapons powers are so inconsistent nowadays it makes me cringe. They are just as powerful as the story needs them to be at this point. And that's bad writing.

[ryanmcfly]

10/10. loved the episode.

[Mantra]

It was her conversation with Jon at the start of the episode that sold it for me. She wants to rule through love, but nobody loves her anymore.

Jorrah is dead. Missandrei is dead. Jon might love her, but he's not down with the whole incest thing. The people in the north don't trust her, they trust Jon. Cersei has convinced the city that she's an invading usurper so the people of kings landing hate her. She's lost 2 dragons fighting for the people of Westeros and has nothing to show for it.

So she chose to rule by fear instead. And she's inspiring fear now. She associates herself with freedom and breaking chains, and is too hurt by what's happened to her to realize that stops being true if she rules by fear. The association of herself as a freedom bringer is enabling her to take extreme actions to take power, and is blinding her to how her actions are preventing that from happening.

Yeah, I see your point, and I could totally see all of this as motivating her to be brutal and vengeful towards Cersei, Varys, and even Jon.

But I don't know, I still can't see Dany responding to that situation by roasting little kids in the street. It just doesn't work for me, because I can't think of any scene in any previous episode that foreshadows that kind of mindless sadism towards innocent people. You can't just force a character to become the new Ramsey when they never acted like that before.

[sonic_discord]

But I don't know, I still can't see Dany responding to that situation by roasting little kids in the street. It just doesn't work for me, because I can't think of any scene in any previous episode that foreshadows that kind of mindless sadism towards innocent people. You can't just force a character to become the new Ramsey when they never acted like that before.

What about the scene where she burned Sam's brother and father to death for not bending the knee? Or the scene where she crucified all of the masters in Meereen (most of them may have had it coming after doing the same to children, but still)? Or the scene where she burns all of the khals alive? You could argue that last one was self defense, but she wasn't exactly distressed by it. As a matter of fact, she seemed to even enjoy it. Either way, there are several times in the past where her first impulse was to be pretty damn cruel and vengeful (https://ew.com/tv/2019/05/13/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen/). It's just that she used to have people like Varys, Jorah, Missandei, Tyrion, and even Jon talk her out of these decisions, but they're all either dead or traitors (in her eyes, at least) now at this point. As she said herself in this episode, she's now letting fear dictate her actions & decisions and she plans to use fear (and force) to take the throne and continue using it to maintain power & control once she obtains it. Ergo, she plans to become a dictator.

[ryanmcfly]

What about the scene where she burned Sam's brother and father to death for not bending the knee? Or the scene where she crucified all of the masters in Meereen (most of them may have had it coming after doing the same to children, but still)? Or the scene where she burns all of the khals alive? You could argue that last one was self defense, but she wasn't exactly distressed by it. As a matter of fact, she seemed to even enjoy it. Either way, there are several times in the past where her first impulse was to be pretty damn cruel and vengeful (https://ew.com/tv/2019/05/13/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen/). It's just that she used to have people like Varys, Jorah, Missandei, Tyrion, and even Jon talk her out of these decisions, but they're all either dead or traitors (in her eyes, at least) now at this point. As she said herself in this episode, she's now letting fear dictate her actions & decisions and she plans to use fear (and force) to take the throne and continue using it to maintain power & control once she obtains it. Ergo, she plans to become a dictator.

Literally this. There have been so many moments of foreshadowing throughout the series that show that she was going to be the Mad Queen. Former NFL receiver Donte Stallworth tweeted this thread with various clips from the series: https://twitter.com/DonteStallworth/status/1127763653812543489

[DVYDRNS]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190513/357500b742a8b96a8532c0e4c9e5c950.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[neorev]

But I don't know, I still can't see Dany responding to that situation by roasting little kids in the street. It just doesn't work for me, because I can't think of any scene in any previous episode that foreshadows that kind of mindless sadism towards innocent people. You can't just force a character to become the new Ramsey when they never acted like that before.

I wonder what show you've been watching. There's many moments that show Dany's darker, fucked up side. It was always there. Dany wanted to be worshipped and bowed to. Cersei and the people of Kings Landing did not.

[marodi]

@marodi (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=125), they had several shots of Jon trying to stop the slaughter, though they registered as kind of pathetic and impossible in the context. He at least had a few highlighted moments of him "trying to do the right thing."

Yeah, he did; and he did save a woman from being raped. But he had seen the direction Dany's thinking was taking ( the it will be fear quote) and did nothing. Worst , imho, when the Lannister soldiers put their swords down, Jon just stood there and stared at them. After a few seconds, I was shouting at my screen "what are you waiting for, you bloody moron; take their weapons away from them, secure them somewhere so they don't attack you in the back and get that bloody door open to take the Red Keep! WTF is wrong with you! Leave the staring to Bran and move"

Seriously, what was that about? They surrendered and you just going to stare at them?

Anyway, Jon is not fit to rule, not because he is a bad guy but because he is too much like his uncle Ned: way too noble and honest. You need to have a bit of ruthlessness in order to properly rule, otherwise, you end up having you head cut up in episode nine.

Any of you fellow fans noticed how the great Houses of Westeros are on the verge of extinction? Patriarchy is to blame, of course but all that fighting was devastating too.

[Wretchedest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H7FvSPMI3c&feature=youtu.be

made a small cut of Jon Snow looking stupid

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

I wonder what show you've been watching. There's many moments that show Dany's darker, fucked up side. It was always there. Dany wanted to be worshipped and bowed to. Cersei and the people of Kings Landing did not.

This grew tiresome when she would have that obsession with people bending the knee to her. Breaker of chains, mother of dragons, yada yada yada... But her more caring side always seemed to take a backseat when it came to talking about the dam throne. I understand that the foreshadowing has always been there, I just feel the execution as to her going mad was poorly done, hence a lot of jarring takes on her just flipping a switch after she had already won.

I felt it was a much more effective plot point when the throne did not matter because of the dead, with the stakes feeling incredibly claustrophobic with them marching in and finally arriving. Ugh, I rememeber when the wall came down and it was fucking shocking to me... I haven't really felt that shocking/oh shit factor all season. I would have liked to see what they would have done with Dany if the throne was no longer a huge factor anymore, due to the dead.

[neorev]

This grew tiresome when she would have that obsession with people bending the knee to her. Breaker of chains, mother of dragons, yada yada yada... But her more caring side always seemed to take a backseat when it came to talking about the dam throne. I understand that the foreshadowing has always been there, I just feel the execution as to her going mad was poorly done, hence a lot of jarring takes on her just flipping a switch after she had already won.

I felt it was a much more effective plot point when the throne did not matter because of the dead, with the stakes feeling incredibly claustrophobic with them marching in and finally arriving. Ugh, I rememeber when the wall came down and it was fucking shocking to me... I haven't really felt that shocking/oh shit factor all season. I would have liked to see what they would have done with Dany if the throne was no longer a huge factor anymore, due to the dead.

Tyrion literally spent the last two episodes trying to get her not to just simply murder everyone in Kings Landing. She has murdered plenty of people before this... quite brutally. Hell, she is even turning on Jon because he doesn't want to fuck his family member. Caring side? She only cared when those people worship her. As soon as you betray her or not bend a knee, she's ready to burn you alive. She constantly had to be counseled to NOT kill people.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Tyrion literally spent the last two episodes trying to get her not to just simply murder everyone in Kings Landing. She has murdered plenty of people before this... quite brutally. Hell, she is even turning on Jon because he doesn't want to fuck his family member. Caring side? She only cared when those people worship her. As soon as you betray her or not bend a knee, she's ready to burn you alive. She constantly had to be counseled to NOT kill people.

Huh? If you go back to multiple seasons... You're telling me that the random people that were in poverty that she saved ; she didn't show any sense of heartfelt caring towards them... Ever? You may need to re-watch a few episodes. My comment wasn't directed towards her behavior for this season. She hasn't cared about shit but the throne for awhile now... Oh, and her nephew.

[theimage13]

I can't help but laugh at anyone who ever thought Dany was a good person or a role model. Did y'all think Trump was good too because he'd occasionally go "I want coal miners to have jobs again!" while simultaneously fucking things up for literally everyone else in the country (and beyond)?

The "good" things she did, she did for herself. She did them so that she could destroy anyone and anything that stood between her an the Iron Throne. It has ALWAYS been that way. How on earth did anyone ever think "oh, she helped some people, she's a hero"? It boggles my mind. She never struck me as anything more than annoyingly self-centered (seriously, announcing that paragraph-long title every time you talk about her....), and one-dimensional (I'm great, because dragons). She would be nothing without those things, which the show has very clearly demonstrated that she's aware of based on her reactions each time one of them gets offed. (And for what it's worth, every single time Jon insists that she's his queen even in the face of horrific actions, I just want to smack him in the face and yell "what the hell is wrong you with, boy?!"

This is no sudden character change. This is just her true colors finally being shown clearly enough for people who somehow couldn't see them before.

[Mantra]

What about the scene where she burned Sam's brother and father to death for not bending the knee? Or the scene where she crucified all of the masters in Meereen (most of them may have had it coming after doing the same to children, but still)? Or the scene where she burns all of the khals alive? You could argue that last one was self defense, but she wasn't exactly distressed by it. As a matter of fact, she seemed to even enjoy it. Either way, there are several times in the past where her first impulse was to be pretty damn cruel and vengeful (https://ew.com/tv/2019/05/13/game-of-thrones-daenerys-mad-queen/). It's just that she used to have people like Varys, Jorah, Missandei, Tyrion, and even Jon talk her out of these decisions, but they're all either dead or traitors (in her eyes, at least) now at this point. As she said herself in this episode, she's now letting fear dictate her actions & decisions and she plans to use fear (and force) to take the throne and continue using it to maintain power & control once she obtains it. Ergo, she plans to become a dictator.

Yeah, I don't know what to say dude, I just don't personally feel like any of these incidents work as foreshadowing for the fucking crazy genocidal shit from last night. To me, killing direct political enemies, soldiers, or people who are guilty of committing their own crimes and atrocities is not even remotely the same as mass-murdering thousands of unarmed women and children who are totally innocent and pose no threat. That is specifically what I'm talking about when I say there's no precedent for that kind of meaningless sadism from her. Seriously, what's the second worst thing Dany's ever done after this? Whatever you think it is, I guarantee it's not even remotely on the same level as mindlessly slaughtering hordes of innocent civilians.

To be clear, it's not that I'm upset with this outcome for her character, because I've been hoping that they'd turn Dany into a fascist tyrant ever since season 2 or so. It's just the execution that's lacking. This episode was pretty great on its own, but it was preceded by three seasons of mediocre, fan-fiction writing that failed to develop Dany's character effectively. And in general, the sense of plotting and pacing in this show has been awful for a good two or three seasons now.

[ryanmcfly]

Yeah, I don't know what to say dude, I just don't personally feel like any of these incidents work as foreshadowing for the fucking crazy genocidal shit from last night.

She literally said she would take what was hers with Fire and Blood.

[sweeterthan]

She literally said she would take what was hers with Fire and Blood.

Plus she’s a direct descendant of “the mad king”. She’s as mad as she is royal.


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[marodi]

Plus she’s a direct descendant of “the mad king”.
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But so is Jon/Aegon.

Unless he takes more from his Stark half.

[Mantra]

She literally said she would take what was hers with Fire and Blood.

Big deal, I say that every day.

[DVYDRNS]

I honestly don't know why there's so much hate on this season. seriously everything thats going on is exactly what was being lined up. some people are literally impossible to please.