PDA

View Full Version : What's this concert footage?



Norton Canes
08-08-2013, 01:37 PM
OK, let me tell you the story.

Back in about 1995 I was working in the library (storeroom, yeah?) of a video production facilities house in Camden, London. We handled a lot of pop and rock music stuff - promos, live concerts, that sort of thing. We had all the footage from Glastonbury turn up when Channel 4 UK had the rights to show it, for instance. Anyway, one day a whole stack of films tins arrived. There were scores of them - close to a hundred, I guess - and they were all marked 'Nine Inch Nails'. Well, my curiosity was piqued, 'cause I was a fan; so when, a few days later, the director turned up in an edit suite to put all this stuff together, I went down to ask him what he'd got.

He told me it was footage from a recent NIN concert, and the reason there was so much of it was that it had been shot by far more cameras than usual, to get as many different angles as possible. There was backstage stuff too, shot on handicams. In short, it all sounded pretty awesome. I paid regular visits to the edit suite as the guy worked on, watching over his shoulder whenever I could.

Eventually, after a few weeks, he'd got the thing finished. The film cans all came back to the library, and he jetted off to LA, for a meeting with Trent, who would give the movie his approval. Except... he didn't. The director came back a couple of weeks later totally crestfallen, telling us that Trent had changed his mind - rather than wanting an epic production shot from all angles, he now wanted the record of the concert to be more intimate. So the completed movie was shelved, and we never saw the director again.

Except the story doesn't end there. A few weeks on again, and who should suddenly turn up in our library but the imposing figure of Peter 'Sleazy' Christopherson, founding member of Throbbing Gristle and Coil, and experimental music promo director. He had been recruited by Trent to rescue the movie, by re-cutting much of the footage. So that's what he did. And shortly afterwards I left the company, so I guess most of you have a better idea of what happened to Sleazy's version of the concert than I do. I presume it found favour and was released in its truncated form, but I haven't checked the NIN filmography.

But... wait. If you've been following me, I know what you're thinking. Doesn't that mean that the extended version of this concert footage is still hanging around? The one that the original director took to Trent Reznor? The one with all the angles? Someone must have the master tape, yeah? Well, I couldn't say exactly where the master tape is now - last time I saw it, it was sitting on the 'N' shelf of the video facilities house library. But I know where a VHS copy of master tape is. It's on my desk, right here. I had one of the tape engineers make it for me, when I found out it wasn't going to be released. Let me look at the track listing...

Mr Self Destruct
Sin
March Of The Pigs
Piggy
Reptile
Gave Up
Happiness In Slavery
Eraser
Hurt
The Downward Spiral
Wish
How Does It Feel
The Only Time
Down In It
Head Like A Hole
Closer
Lost Souls
I Do Not Want This
Something I Can Never Have

I wish I could remember the name of that first director. Ginger hair, is all I can recall. The name totally escapes me. It was a long time ago! I thought it was such a shame he got the rebuke from Trent, after all that hard work.

CAVEAT: All the above is true. But for all I know, a hundred other copies, and copies of copies, were made of that master tape, and there are a million versions of it sitting on people's hard drives. Hell, I haven't even checked YouTube. But for a while, mine was unique.

slave2thewage
08-08-2013, 01:46 PM
You might want to message Leviathant about this. There was no full-length concert officially released from the Self-Destruct tour, so you might happen to have a great piece of NIN history on your desk!

ninlive
08-08-2013, 01:46 PM
I'll be the first to ask if you'd like to get that properly transferred and archived for everyone to see? http://www.reflectinginthechrome.com

Leviathant
08-08-2013, 01:53 PM
Hi there @Norton Canes (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=3253) - I only skimmed this, but wanted to say that I would love to talk to you about lending that tape to @ItsJustDave (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=6)

Edit: Bonus points for the delivery of your story, dude, haha. Private Message Sent!

P.S. Simon Maxwell (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3963786/) is credited for directing the videos for Hurt, Eraser, and Wish on Closure. I'm guessing he's the ginger.

ItsJustDave
08-08-2013, 01:59 PM
NTSC or PAL?

Fred
08-08-2013, 02:02 PM
WANT. What a great story, and what a great tape you've got there. If you intend to share this, I'm sure the entire community would be eternally grateful if you decide to share this. I, for one, absolutely would. Thank you for making my day!

tony.parente
08-08-2013, 02:06 PM
Mother of god....
....Mother of god.

spiralhate
08-08-2013, 02:07 PM
@Norton Canes (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=3253):

Do you have any ideia if this video is part of that footage you have?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0Tw5HTMvqs

Shadaloo
08-08-2013, 02:10 PM
Candidates, anyone? (slow day at work and I feel like helping). This could be narrowed down via presence of Wooley or Clouser:

Tampa (incomplete setlist?) - http://www.ninwiki.com/1994/11/21_Tampa,_FL

Winston-Salem - http://www.ninwiki.com/1994/11/23_Winston-Salem,_NC

Pittsburgh - http://www.ninwiki.com/1994/11/28_Pittsburgh,_PA

Boston - http://www.ninwiki.com/1994/12/03_Boston,_MA

Baltimore - http://www.ninwiki.com/1994/12/06_Baltimore,_MD

NYC - http://www.ninwiki.com/1994/12/09_New_York_City,_NY

Topeka - http://www.ninwiki.com/1995/02/08_Topeka,_KS

sheepdean
08-08-2013, 03:18 PM
OK, let me tell you the story.

Back in about 1995 I was working in the library (storeroom, yeah?) of a video production facilities house in Camden, London. We handled a lot of pop and rock music stuff - promos, live concerts, that sort of thing.

Wait is that the one in Kentish Town

Norton Canes
08-08-2013, 03:36 PM
spiralhate: The irony is that we don't have a VHS player any more, so I can't actually watch the thing. From what you've all said, though, it seems like it's something worth exploring - so I'll sort out getting it converted sometime very soon.

@Levianthant: Simon Maxwell - yeah, that was him. Really nice guy.
sheepdean: No, it was right in the middle of Camden. It shut down ages ago though, and the building's been demolished since - no idea what happened to the stock.

Shadaloo
08-08-2013, 03:45 PM
Also, some possible dates from the point in the tour that NINwiki has no info on, after they dropped Ruiner from the setlist:

1994/11/25 Hampton, VA
1994/12/28 Cleveland, OH
1994/12/31 Detroit, MI
1995/01/08 Cleveland, OH
1995/01/12 Kalamazoo, MI
1995/01/13 Toledo, OH
1995/01/15 Chicago, IL
1995/01/16 Chicago, IL
1995/01/21 Indianapolis, IN
1995/01/22 Evansville, IN
1995/01/25 Columbia, SC
1995/01/27 Orlando, FL
1995/01/31 Little Rock, AR

Leviathant
08-08-2013, 03:49 PM
Also, some possible dates from the point in the tour that NINwiki has no info on, after they dropped Ruiner from the setlist:

1994/11/25 Hampton, VA
1994/12/28 Cleveland, OH
1994/12/31 Detroit, MI
1995/01/08 Cleveland, OH
1995/01/12 Kalamazoo, MI
1995/01/13 Toledo, OH
1995/01/15 Chicago, IL
1995/01/16 Chicago, IL
1995/01/21 Indianapolis, IN
1995/01/22 Evansville, IN
1995/01/25 Columbia, SC
1995/01/27 Orlando, FL
1995/01/31 Little Rock, AR

From the NINWiki Entry on the Hurt video:


The footage used for this (as well as the live videos for "Eraser (http://www.ninwiki.com/Eraser)" and "Wish (http://www.ninwiki.com/Wish_%28song%29)") was shot in Dallas, Texas and Omaha, Nebraska in February of 1995. This video was released after a fully produced music video was scrapped. Both the scrapped studio video and the final live video were directed by Simon Maxwell (http://www.ninwiki.com/index.php?title=Simon_Maxwell&action=edit&redlink=1).

Shadaloo
08-08-2013, 03:57 PM
Nice. Damn, missed it by that much, haha

My failure to refresh a thread as I excitedly sift through NINwiki aside...this is a pretty goddamned amazing find. I've always wondered what the rest of those shows were like. Holy shit...

brokenfragility
08-08-2013, 06:44 PM
I've always wanted a Self Destruct tour show DVD (in this case VHS) with decent audio/video. Closure has too many random cuts, it's definitely not an accurate representation of seeing one show start to finish.

*edit: Also, why is there a song labeled How Does It Feel, isn't that just Suck?

piggy
08-08-2013, 08:40 PM
Oh. My. Jesus. The lost Simon Maxwell footage has been my personal holy grail of NIN for years. Would love to eventually get my hands on it.

Reznor2112
08-08-2013, 09:21 PM
Jesus! Please tell me this is going to surface!!!!!! Ahhhh

billpulsipher
08-08-2013, 10:09 PM
Dude, you surface this and you go into the hall of fucking fame in the NIN community for life

fuckit
08-09-2013, 01:17 AM
Lost souls dead souls. Tomato tamato

Fred
08-09-2013, 01:59 AM
If it is indeed the full Maxwell footage... well, WOW. I've always wanted to see this, and there has always been a considerable gap in the history of "Closure". The story goes that Trent was dissatisfied with the quality of the supposedly too polished pro-shot material in "Closure", and that he subsequently went with a rawer, "audience POV" style for "And All That Could Have Been".

This story has always made me go "WTF". Yeah, yeah, the music videos for "Eraser", "Hurt" and "Wish" are definitely squeaky clean, but the rest of the live footage on "Closure" is deliberately shitty, with stuff shot on old film stock, off CRT TVs and whatnot. Why would Trent find that footage too clean? Did he want every NIN live video to look like it was flushed into a toilet or what?

The story makes a lot more sense now. Of course Maxwell shot more and of course it's this footage Trent was dissatisfied with because of its look and feel. But wow, do I want to see this. The aesthetic on "Closure" was cool for a while, but ten years after the fact, it becomes disappointing that Trent's infatuation with rougher art ensured that we have almost no live footage from this era that doesn't look like crap. This could bridge a huge gap. I so badly want to see it.

TheBang
08-09-2013, 05:02 AM
When this get released, I vote that it be called "Closurer".

TRAjiK_SiN813
08-09-2013, 10:38 AM
OK, let me tell you the story.

Back in about 1995 I was working in the library (storeroom, yeah?) of a video production facilities house in Camden, London. We handled a lot of pop and rock music stuff - promos, live concerts, that sort of thing. We had all the footage from Glastonbury turn up when Channel 4 UK had the rights to show it, for instance. Anyway, one day a whole stack of films tins arrived. There were scores of them - close to a hundred, I guess - and they were all marked 'Nine Inch Nails'. Well, my curiosity was piqued, 'cause I was a fan; so when, a few days later, the director turned up in an edit suite to put all this stuff together, I went down to ask him what he'd got.

He told me it was footage from a recent NIN concert, and the reason there was so much of it was that it had been shot by far more cameras than usual, to get as many different angles as possible. There was backstage stuff too, shot on handicams. In short, it all sounded pretty awesome. I paid regular visits to the edit suite as the guy worked on, watching over his shoulder whenever I could.

Eventually, after a few weeks, he'd got the thing finished. The film cans all came back to the library, and he jetted off to LA, for a meeting with Trent, who would give the movie his approval. Except... he didn't. The director came back a couple of weeks later totally crestfallen, telling us that Trent had changed his mind - rather than wanting an epic production shot from all angles, he now wanted the record of the concert to be more intimate. So the completed movie was shelved, and we never saw the director again.

Except the story doesn't end there. A few weeks on again, and who should suddenly turn up in our library but the imposing figure of Peter 'Sleazy' Christopherson, founding member of Throbbing Gristle and Coil, and experimental music promo director. He had been recruited by Trent to rescue the movie, by re-cutting much of the footage. So that's what he did. And shortly afterwards I left the company, so I guess most of you have a better idea of what happened to Sleazy's version of the concert than I do. I presume it found favour and was released in its truncated form, but I haven't checked the NIN filmography.

But... wait. If you've been following me, I know what you're thinking. Doesn't that mean that the extended version of this concert footage is still hanging around? The one that the original director took to Trent Reznor? The one with all the angles? Someone must have the master tape, yeah? Well, I couldn't say exactly where the master tape is now - last time I saw it, it was sitting on the 'N' shelf of the video facilities house library. But I know where a VHS copy of master tape is. It's on my desk, right here. I had one of the tape engineers make it for me, when I found out it wasn't going to be released. Let me look at the track listing...

Mr Self Destruct
Sin
March Of The Pigs
Piggy
Reptile
Gave Up
Happiness In Slavery
Eraser
Hurt
The Downward Spiral
Wish
How Does It Feel
The Only Time
Down In It
Head Like A Hole
Closer
Lost Souls
I Do Not Want This
Something I Can Never Have

I wish I could remember the name of that first director. Ginger hair, is all I can recall. The name totally escapes me. It was a long time ago! I thought it was such a shame he got the rebuke from Trent, after all that hard work.

CAVEAT: All the above is true. But for all I know, a hundred other copies, and copies of copies, were made of that master tape, and there are a million versions of it sitting on people's hard drives. Hell, I haven't even checked YouTube. But for a while, mine was unique.

I have heard all this footage is in the 'Valuts' at Interscope. The Director you might be referring to, who did the 'Closure' 'Self-Destruct Tour'??? His name is Jonathan Rach, I've been trying to find the 'real' one for a year or two. I have a 'Self-Destruct tour' Itinerary with everyone who was on the tour & their jobs, its got a lot of pretty cool info in it. But a lot of the stuff isn't current because it was The J Artist Days, Hope this video/audio can surface!!! Thanks TRAjiK SiN aka J

Shadaloo
08-09-2013, 11:04 AM
When this get released, I vote that it be called "Closurer".

Should we continue the trend of naming it after a lyric in a song from the album? ex: "Nothing Can Stop Me Now", "All That You Want", "So Far Away" "Something That Matters", "A Million Miles Away" "Got Me A Big Old Dick", etc.

buckaroo
08-09-2013, 12:09 PM
i have been hoping for this for so long. i had always hoped interscope would release this at some point. as much as i love closure i thought in terms of the live footage the wish and eraser "videos" were the highlights. even if it was super polished.

InsecureSpike
08-09-2013, 12:27 PM
"crawl right up on your knees!"

tony.parente
08-09-2013, 12:34 PM
"Got Me A Big Old Dick"

It has been decided.

Bokononist
08-09-2013, 01:07 PM
"Something I Can Never Have". Wrong era? Sure, but it ends the show.

nobies
08-09-2013, 03:25 PM
Can someone tell me the history of this Simon Maxwell concert film? From what I'm hearing Trent hired Maxwell to shoot a concert film of the Self Destruct Tour, Trent said "no manches" and then had it recut into Closure?

Fred
08-09-2013, 03:54 PM
It has been decided.

Actually, "You Know, Just For the Fuck Of It" would be a wonderfully non-committal title for a release. Though I suppose a more fitting one would be "Now Doesn't That Make You Feel Better?"

tony.parente
08-09-2013, 03:57 PM
Actually, "You Know, Just For the Fuck Of It" would be a wonderfully non-committal title for a release. Though I suppose a more fitting one would be "Now Doesn't That Make You Feel Better?"

I'm still mad we didn't call any of the with_teeth bootlegs "flip flop flip flop flip"

ItsJustDave
08-09-2013, 05:20 PM
I'm still mad we didn't call any of the with_teeth bootlegs "flip flop flip flop flip"

But this isn't a bootleg. This is an unreleased official recording.

icklekitty
08-09-2013, 05:25 PM
I hope something is happening behind the scenes and this guy hasn't gone AWOL.

tony.parente
08-09-2013, 05:31 PM
But this isn't a bootleg. This is an unreleased official recording.

Does that mean "I got my NIN on a spring-ah" is still an option?

pigpen
08-09-2013, 06:02 PM
Holy shit, this would be amazing.
Please let this come to fruition!!!!

I've always wondered where the rest of that footage went, and why it never surfaced as it's own live concert video!
Hope something comes of this.

billpulsipher
08-09-2013, 06:26 PM
if this was the Faith No More scene, the guy woulda went AWOL by now and the vid would never surface.....Hopefully this has a different outcome

MrSlfDstruct
08-09-2013, 06:44 PM
Man, if nothing happens with this, starting this thread is a pretty dick move :p

simonn
08-09-2013, 07:05 PM
if this was the Faith No More scene, the guy woulda went AWOL by now and the vid would never surface.....Hopefully this has a different outcome

Please elaborate - big FNM fan here...

billpulsipher
08-09-2013, 09:08 PM
Please elaborate - big FNM fan here... theres a 90 minute pro shot of FNM from their 1991 south America tour..pristine quality..only 1 person has it, he's in Germany and he refuses to let it out...he wouldn't even let the band members have it when they requested it....

theimage13
08-09-2013, 09:15 PM
theres a 90 minute pro shot of FNM from their 1991 south America tour..pristine quality..only 1 person has it, he's in Germany and he refuses to let it out...he wouldn't even let the band members have it when they requested it....

Translation: he lost it and won't admit it. That's my bet, anyway.

piggy
08-09-2013, 11:04 PM
Can someone tell me the history of this Simon Maxwell concert film? From what I'm hearing Trent hired Maxwell to shoot a concert film of the Self Destruct Tour, Trent said "no manches" and then had it recut into Closure?
Essentially. I believe the original plan was to make a full length home video live release that would have been along the lines of Beside You In Time. Trent thought Simon's results were too polished, so he dispensed with everything but "Wish", "Eraser" and "Hurt", which became the live music videos on the second tape/disc of Closure. What wound up on the first tape/disc was completely different footage that was being shot by people (i.e. Jonathan Rach) who were traveling along with the NIN camp at the time. It's not really clear if that footage was being shot all that time with the intention of making a film or if it was just for the sake of making some "home movies".

fuckit
08-09-2013, 11:15 PM
I thought they recorded eraser and hurt before the actual concert to keep audience volume down? I'd be psyched to see a whole other performance of hurt pro shot style.

piggy
08-10-2013, 12:28 AM
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. They must have filmed two performances of each of those songs, I guess.

Ryan
08-10-2013, 12:46 AM
"Got Me A Big Old Dick"

Best title ever.

Merriweather
08-10-2013, 01:00 AM
Please elaborate - big FNM fan here...

Also, a couple years ago a snippet of "The Seagull Song" from the Angel Dust sessions surfaced. Whoever posted it claimed that they had found a demo tape with that song at a garage sale and would share it online. They quickly disappeared.

The band's response was that it shouldn't be released because it wasn't very good in their opinions. Of course during the YouTube interview where they laughed it off, they teased having a HQ version that they could easily release.

Kyle
08-10-2013, 03:31 AM
One of the possibilities listed was Pittsburgh 1994. That was my first NIN show and trust me when I say that I can verify if that was the one because I remember it vividly (and I later found an audio recording that has verified my memories). Two things. 1. Before Closer did he make a speech about this being the closest thing he has to a hometown crowd and 2. Did someone get on stage and yell into the microphone during Dead Souls? If the answer to those is no then it's not Pittsburgh.

That is however the exact set list he played at that show. There are slight variations in different shows on that tour. Some shows got Ruiner, some got The Only Time and a couple got neither. Also some shows have I Do Not Want This as the second to last song and others don't.

Kyle
08-10-2013, 03:35 AM
I hope something is happening behind the scenes and this guy hasn't gone AWOL.

you posted this only 28 hours after he started the thread. A bit soon to start worrying.

simonn
08-10-2013, 04:12 AM
theres a 90 minute pro shot of FNM from their 1991 south America tour..pristine quality..only 1 person has it, he's in Germany and he refuses to let it out...he wouldn't even let the band members have it when they requested it....

He sounds like a dick!

billpulsipher
08-10-2013, 11:53 AM
He sounds like a dick! He's the scourge of the FNM scene lol

trollmanen
08-11-2013, 10:06 AM
That FNO stuff reminds me of the whole Martin Atkins/Pretty Hate Machine demo tape thing a few years ago with the demo versions of Terrible Lie and Sin, which we'll probably never hear now. This guy sounds like he wants to share, especially since it's been so long, but obviously it's not going to happen overnight. I'm sure Matt and Dave will do all they can to get this tape out to us, even if it takes a while. Hell, we've waited this long! I'm just excited about soundboard recordings of some of these songs, especially Mr Self Destruct.

ninedead
08-12-2013, 07:32 PM
Also, some possible dates from the point in the tour that NINwiki has no info on, after they dropped Ruiner from the setlist:


1995/01/22 Evansville, IN

great show, would be nice to have footage from this one!!

ryanh92
08-12-2013, 11:39 PM
I've been hoping that a pro shot concert from this tour would eventually surface at some point. thanks in advance to everyone working on getting this out here to all of us. this is why the NIN community is the best on the planet!

Norton Canes
08-16-2013, 09:44 AM
OK, I'm back. Apologies, but August, being August, is full of little inconveniences like family holidays. I can see a lot of you are pretty hyped about this footage, and I don't want to be stringing people along with it. I'm heading into town right now with the VHS (in an attache case cabled to my wrist) to see about getting it converted. After that I'm quite happy to distribute it by whichever means is considered the most quick, efficient and legal. Not sure how long the conversion will take - I guess it won't be while-u-wait - so bear with me again.

I'm just hoping the quality hasn't degraded.

Fred
08-16-2013, 10:37 AM
Distribution will probably never be fully "legal". Someone (probably Interscope) likely still owns the rights to this particular footage. That said, Nine Inch Nails are very unlikely to protest over the release of something like this, so I wouldn't lose sleep over the legality if I were you. Trent himself even shared DVD-quality versions of the Broken Movie and Closure, pro-shot 1080p footage of three 2008 gigs for fans to edit, as well as a 3-disc Greatest Hits collection on The Pirate Bay (which is used by a lot of NIN fans) a couple of years ago. I honestly know few artists as cool and down-to-earth as Trent when it comes to stuff like this. Getting it out on the torrent circuit is most definitely the easiest and most efficient way. And, though it may not be legal per se, it'd also be an inconsequential way for you to do it.

If using The Pirate Bay still doesn't sit right with you (something I fully understand), you'd probably want to get in touch with @RITCNIN (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1141). As far as NIN live recordings go, his site (http://www.reflectinginthechrome.com/) is pretty much the cream of the crop. Your tape would still be well-distributed among NIN fans this way, but attracting less attention than it would on The Pirate Bay. For better or for worse.

theimage13
08-16-2013, 04:21 PM
After that I'm quite happy to distribute it by whichever means is considered the most quick, efficient and legal.

Not a lawyer; can't speak on legal. But for quick and efficient: @RITCNIN (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1141) is who you're looking for. Contact him here, or through the site he runs: http://www.reflectinginthechrome.com/

This will quickly and efficiently lead to the video being available in both direct download and torrent forms (as well as Youtube, most likely) on a well-known (among NIN fans) site that doesn't require anything - not even an email address - in order to access the content there.

edit: yeah, all of that was just said in the post above. Which I probably should have read first, except I was too damn excited to be bothered. So just consider this a second vote; a reinforcement that the aforementioned advice is sound.

Kyle
08-16-2013, 04:24 PM
OK, I'm back. Apologies, but August, being August, is full of little inconveniences like family holidays. I can see a lot of you are pretty hyped about this footage, and I don't want to be stringing people along with it. I'm heading into town right now with the VHS (in an attache case cabled to my wrist) to see about getting it converted. After that I'm quite happy to distribute it by whichever means is considered the most quick, efficient and legal. Not sure how long the conversion will take - I guess it won't be while-u-wait - so bear with me again.

I'm just hoping the quality hasn't degraded.

I wish I could like this post more than once.

Max Leo
08-16-2013, 05:34 PM
Thank you so much in advance. :D:D:D

TheRealNs1
08-16-2013, 09:58 PM
OK, I'm back. Apologies, but August, being August, is full of little inconveniences like family holidays. I can see a lot of you are pretty hyped about this footage, and I don't want to be stringing people along with it. I'm heading into town right now with the VHS (in an attache case cabled to my wrist) to see about getting it converted. After that I'm quite happy to distribute it by whichever means is considered the most quick, efficient and legal. Not sure how long the conversion will take - I guess it won't be while-u-wait - so bear with me again.

I'm just hoping the quality hasn't degraded.

Do you accept payment in blowjobs? Out of cash, bought NIN tickets.

nohomo, just want this video.




In other news, we'll probably get this video released before AAISAD bluray.

ItsJustDave
08-16-2013, 11:19 PM
If using The Pirate Bay still doesn't sit right with you (something I fully understand), you'd probably want to get in touch with @RITCNIN (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1141). As far as NIN live recordings go, his site (http://www.reflectinginthechrome.com/) is pretty much the cream of the crop. Your tape would still be well-distributed among NIN fans this way, but attracting less attention than it would on The Pirate Bay. For better or for worse.I'd say the best approach would be to get it into the hands of yourfutureenemy (http://twitter.com/yourfutureenemy). Should the wrong feathers get ruffled, I'd hate to see RITC brought down. YFE on the other hand is just some account on TPB.

Fred
08-17-2013, 02:13 AM
I hadn't considered that TPB user, but yeah, ItsJustDave has a very good point there.

botley
08-20-2013, 11:29 AM
*bump* Any updates to share, Norton Canes (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=3253)?

fishtifer
08-23-2013, 11:52 PM
I'm hoping since Levi mentioned this found footage when advertising the ninhotline shirts on Facebook that something is happening with this found concert footage, loved how we got Fragility V1.0 and Coil Unreleased mixes, now this is totally the ultimate find!

kercyx
08-24-2013, 08:25 PM
I simply can't wait for moaaaaar 94 era

Leviathant
08-24-2013, 09:00 PM
I've been talking with the OP behind the scenes - your best recourse right now is patience. Pretend you never saw this, and if it does come out, then get excited.

Kyle
08-25-2013, 02:55 AM
Saw what??

Butterscotch
08-25-2013, 02:59 AM
Saw what??

Yes, exactly.

theimage13
08-25-2013, 06:46 AM
I've been talking with the OP behind the scenes - your best recourse right now is patience. Pretend you never saw this, and if it does come out, then get excited.

The publicist in me is extremely concerned about your choice of words.

Thankfully, my memory sucks. I'll probably forget all about this by the time I've wandered to another thread.

Kyle
08-25-2013, 11:33 AM
The publicist in me is extremely concerned about your choice of words.

Thankfully, my memory sucks. I'll probably forget all about this by the time I've wandered to another thread.

It's the word "if" that mainly concerns me. Hopefully, it will work out, but if not, I'll live.

MrSlfDstruct
08-25-2013, 03:07 PM
Ooh, shit. That doesn't inspire a lot of confidence . . .

TheRealNs1
08-25-2013, 06:08 PM
Do you accept payment in blowjobs?
nohomo, just want this video.

hey OP I fulfilled my end of the bargain now it's your turn.

kercyx
09-02-2013, 04:32 PM
Please tell me we'll see this gem someday...
I was really looking forward to listen to it

ninja77
09-05-2013, 08:23 PM
If it is indeed the full Maxwell footage... well, WOW. I've always wanted to see this, and there has always been a considerable gap in the history of "Closure". The story goes that Trent was dissatisfied with the quality of the supposedly too polished pro-shot material in "Closure", and that he subsequently went with a rawer, "audience POV" style for "And All That Could Have Been".

This story has always made me go "WTF". Yeah, yeah, the music videos for "Eraser", "Hurt" and "Wish" are definitely squeaky clean, but the rest of the live footage on "Closure" is deliberately shitty, with stuff shot on old film stock, off CRT TVs and whatnot. Why would Trent find that footage too clean? Did he want every NIN live video to look like it was flushed into a toilet or what?

The story makes a lot more sense now. Of course Maxwell shot more and of course it's this footage Trent was dissatisfied with because of its look and feel. But wow, do I want to see this. The aesthetic on "Closure" was cool for a while, but ten years after the fact, it becomes disappointing that Trent's infatuation with rougher art ensured that we have almost no live footage from this era that doesn't look like crap. This could bridge a huge gap. I so badly want to see it.

My feelings exactly, Fred. I've been a fan since senior year of high school in '94 and although they played in Milwaukee several times on the SD/FDTS touring cycle, I didn't have the means to see them live at the time, especially since I live in Green Bay. I've seen "Closure" dozens of times since then and I've watched a few audience-shot bootlegs on YouTube, but it always felt like something was missing and for almost 20 years I had to mostly rely on crappy bootlegs and second-hand accounts of the shows to get a good sense of what the NIN live experience was about in the mid 90s. You're right - the shelved Maxwell film would definitely close a huge gap in NIN history. I'm almost surprised that Trent hasn't leaked it himself by now since it was as important (or maybe more) to NIN history as the Broken movie, and he seemed to have been over the obsession with rougher art when he released BYIT on DVD and Blu-Ray. I've been wanting to see this since I read about it on an old NIN FAQ back in the mid 90s.

Kevin Carafa
09-06-2013, 09:58 AM
I'm just wondering why footage from handheld consumer cameras is in film tins. It's not even film...

Fred
09-06-2013, 10:34 AM
I think you're mixing things up, Kevin. The Self-Destruct era live videos Norton is in possession of definitely weren't shot with consumer cameras, but most likely on film.

However, the official live DVD And All That Could Have Been, which documented one of the Fragility tours, was shot with handheld consumer camcorders by Rob Sheridan and a spontaneously put-together camera crew.

screwdriver
09-06-2013, 11:43 AM
I've been talking with the OP behind the scenes - your best recourse right now is patience. Pretend you never saw this, and if it does come out, then get excited.

I can't believe you just got through that without a "soon" joke

tony.parente
09-06-2013, 12:23 PM
I can't believe you just got through that without a "soon" joke

The lack of a "soon" joke makes me think this thing isn't going to see the light any time "soon".

:/

ninja77
09-06-2013, 05:10 PM
I think you're mixing things up, Kevin. The Self-Destruct era live videos Norton is in possession of definitely weren't shot with consumer cameras, but most likely on film.



As mentioned before, the footage in question was apparently shot at the 2/11/95 Dallas and 2/13/95 Omaha shows at the end of the tour. According to an old NIN FAQ dating back to the early 90s, Sean Beavan said that an additional show was recorded on 2/14/95 in St. Louis, with the intent of releasing a live album as a companion to the concert movie. I also remember reading that before indefinitely shelving the project, the NIN camp was even considering a theatrical release for the movie.

I've read a number of different reasons that Trent wasn't satisfied with the film over the years - one was that it looked too professional, I think the example given was that it looked too much like a Bon Jovi HBO special. Another reason was that the show had to be lit differently in order to effectively capture it on film, and the alternate lighting scheme wasn't representative of how other dates on the tour looked. My thought is if it was to be shelved and forgotten forever, why did Trent let that time-stamped clip of Mr. Self Destruct leak out on the Closure DVD bonus features?

If the reason that the Closure DVD and Broken movie leaks happened was to get around legal issues with one John A. Malm, Jr., perhaps the reason the whole Maxwell project hasn't already been leaked is due to rights issues or something beyond even the NIN camp's control. After all, the Broken movie was never intended for release, but it got out.

A side note: Has anyone else noticed that the video clip of "Hurt" on Closure is an alternate cut from what was originally shown on MTV? Just a thought.

Fred
09-07-2013, 03:37 AM
My thought is if it was to be shelved and forgotten forever, why did Trent let that time-stamped clip of Mr. Self Destruct leak out on the Closure DVD bonus features?

Probably because he could. It's easy for 1995 Trent to say something should be shelved and forgotten forever, but 2005 Trent would not neccessarily agree. The Closure DVD features a metric fuckton of stuff no one was really ever meant to see. Behind the scenes footage for the Hurt video and the scrapped March of the Pigs video spring to mind.

Of course, as you point out in the rest of your post, rights issues may factor into it. But we already know Trent is pretty lenient with those. And, indeed, he hasn't been prosecuted for leaking The Broken Movie and Closure as far as I know. As for not leaking the whole thing, maybe he just wants to be about now rather than about then. He talks a lot about being in doubt about his relevance as an artist, so I can't imagine him ever kicking back and deciding to release all the shit from the vaults and resting on his laurels forevermore.

Plus, we don't know how finished the edit was. Norton might have a rough cut. Transferring the original film into digital space, restoring it and getting a new edit together would be quite time-consuming and expensive as fuck. So if that's neccessary for us to ever see a release from Trent, I see why he doesn't want to bother.

Ryan
09-07-2013, 05:39 AM
Fred, you make my willy tingle.

Fred
09-07-2013, 06:56 AM
Thanks; I sure hope it pays off that I'm doing so much yammering about something that may never come out :p

billpulsipher
09-07-2013, 12:25 PM
converting from a VHS to dvd would only take a couple hours....one month later and nothing has happened, doesn't bode well

Conan The Barbarian
09-07-2013, 12:46 PM
Wonder if this is the surprise that ritc is teasing

Kyle
09-07-2013, 01:17 PM
Wonder if this is the surprise that ritc is teasing
I thought that as soon as I saw the tease but didn't say anything because I didn't want to get anyone's (myself included) hopes up.

Tomp252
09-11-2013, 03:22 PM
Wonder if this is the surprise that ritc is teasing
That would be amazing

theimage13
09-11-2013, 04:03 PM
Wonder if this is the surprise that ritc is teasing

Say what now? Didn't even know they were teasing a surprise...guessing I'm just blind here.

Tomp252
09-11-2013, 04:25 PM
Say what now? Didn't even know they were teasing a surprise...guessing I'm just blind here.
Ritc tweeted that there will be a surprise tomorrow at 8 am. I'm pretty sure he said it wasn't going to be the htda Chicago show. We'll see

The Great Destroyer
09-11-2013, 04:31 PM
Whatever happened to the pro-shot Wave Goodbye footage? NIN only released those 2 clips as a holiday suprise...

nineismine
09-11-2013, 04:54 PM
hey OP I fulfilled my end of the bargain now it's your turn.
So about that time when I told you It was me who started this thread and I had the video.....

TheBang
09-11-2013, 05:14 PM
Whatever happened to the pro-shot Wave Goodbye footage? NIN only released those 2 clips as a holiday suprise...
https://twitter.com/rob_sheridan/status/370587127597105152

The Great Destroyer
09-11-2013, 05:31 PM
https://twitter.com/rob_sheridan/status/370587127597105152

Nooooooooo

theimage13
09-11-2013, 06:38 PM
So about that time when I told you It was me who started this thread and I had the video.....

Translation: we'll probably never see it. Or maybe some day, seed0 will have another ridiculously large upload to everyone's favorite torrent site on Christmas morning.

dlb
09-12-2013, 12:05 PM
Patience is a virtue! This is only dead to me, when someone I believe says it's dead!

Of course this would blow my mind right now with the onslaught of amazing NIN stuff the last two months! :)

slave2thewage
09-12-2013, 12:08 PM
Oh, Bill. You're my favourite Negative Nancy on here.

Kyle
09-12-2013, 01:52 PM
I don't think it will never happen. Just not anytime soon unfortunately.

slave2thewage
09-12-2013, 01:56 PM
I don't get why everyone is thinking that we're never going to see this. It's only been a month since we found out about it.

Kyle
09-12-2013, 01:59 PM
I don't get why everyone is thinking that we're never going to see this. It's only been a month since we found out about it.
The wording of an earlier post, in particular (for me at least) the use of the word "if".

Tomp252
09-12-2013, 02:03 PM
I think we'll get it within the next couple months. Video and audio. Just a guess

Kyle
09-12-2013, 03:19 PM
I'm hoping since Levi mentioned this found footage when advertising the ninhotline shirts on Facebook that something is happening with this found concert footage, loved how we got Fragility V1.0 and Coil Unreleased mixes, now this is totally the ultimate find!
What exactly did he say?

fishtifer
09-13-2013, 01:51 AM
It was something like "thanks for reading about theninhotline shirts, now back to nin news and some newly found pro shot footage from '95, say whaaa..." Levi wants us to forget about this for now, so let's do that as painful as it is. I'm now looking more forward to this release than The Fragile Remaster!

Fred
09-13-2013, 02:49 AM
I don't want to be negative. It's not like we're missing gratification these days. If it comes out, cool. If it doesn't, sucks. I don't really believe in the latter scenario, though. No matter how long we have to wait.

theimage13
09-13-2013, 08:34 AM
I don't get why everyone is thinking that we're never going to see this.

I'm guessing it has something to do with this...


I've been talking with the OP behind the scenes - your best recourse right now is patience. Pretend you never saw this, and if it does come out, then get excited.

sore_and_crucified
09-13-2013, 04:16 PM
"Hey, here's a million in a suitcase, forget about it for now, you may one day have it, earn it and spend it".

This footage really would be next level!

frankie teardrop
09-13-2013, 04:24 PM
you guys are forgetting the patient part. just let it go for now and hope for the best. no need to keep whining about it, right?

Kyle
09-13-2013, 04:30 PM
What is this patient thing of which you speak?!?!?!?

Little_Dreamer
09-13-2013, 05:01 PM
What is this patient thing of which you speak?!?!?!?

It's a virtue, apparently ;)
Anyway, since this is my favourite era, it's very hard to be patient.

billpulsipher
10-01-2013, 05:34 PM
I guess this is gone forever

frankie teardrop
10-01-2013, 05:40 PM
now you're just whining and being an impatient, nagging ass. we're going in circles here with these posts and i hate that i even have to look at it again. mods, if you could lock this until there's actually something to announce, that'd be super duper.

Leviathant
10-01-2013, 08:39 PM
Consider it done.