Random NIN Thoughts

[Erneuert]

my
moral

standing

is

laying


down



in the back
off the side and far away is a place
where i hide where i
stay
tried to say tried to ask i needed to
all alone by myself where
were you?


how could i
ever think it's funny how everything that
swore it wouldn't change is different now just like you would always say we'll make it through then my head fell apart and where were you?


how could i
ever think
it's funny how
everything you swore would never change is different now
like you said
you and me
make it through
didn't quite
fell apart
where the fuck were you?

[Erneuert]

I consider grammar and syntax to be tools for anyone working in a medium of words. There are rules, but it's a very fluid system. If you know those rules, you have a better chance of breaking them compellingly, in a way that forces your audience to think about something, if only for an instant, in a way which he/she/they may not have previously considered. Language shapes our brains. We all understand a lot more about "correct" and "incorrect" usage than we realize, at least in our native tongues. So, yeah, I think it's a completely valid investigation and discussion which makes the world a more interesting place.

I think that definitely applies to what I posted above... gives that Somewhat Damaged ending a more frantic feel.

Also the way the lyrics are laid out for The New Flesh and Demon Seen with numbered sequences or cantos.

[HWB]

It's been like 4 years and Not The Actual Events stll remains one of my favorite releases from NIN ever, really up there. I love rest of the Trlogy but I absolutely adore ths EP, it's flawless to me. It's incredibly heavy, depressive and dark, has a great impact. I was so impressed with it when it came out and I am still to this day. Anyone who said that Trent someohow "lost" his fire got slapped by this monster. I cannot put it into words how much adore everything about this record. The insane scream going into a mad laugh in She's Gone Away still gives me the chills.

[ManBurning]

It's been like 4 years and Not The Actual Events stll remains one of my favorite releases from NIN ever, really up there. I love rest of the Trlogy but I absolutely adore ths EP, it's flawless to me. It's incredibly heavy, depressive and dark, has a great impact. I was so impressed with it when it came out and I am still to this day. Anyone who said that Trent someohow "lost" his fire got slapped by this monster. I cannot put it into words how much adore everything about this record. The insane scream going into a mad laugh in She's Gone Away still gives me the chills.

Totally agree. NTAE is up there and on par with "The Fragile". As bold of a statement that is. I always liked that EP, and it sounds just as good now as it did 3.5 years ago. That EP has my favourite song from the whole trilogy... "The idea of You". I always thought this song would be AMAZING in a live setting, and I was really shocked to see he never played it live. The song is just begging to be played live in front of a crowd.

I feel like NTAE has the best songs of the bunch. There is no "lull" moments. It has 5 banging tracks that you don't need to skip a single one. Sorry to say... but Bad Witch is the weakest of the bunch. Appreciate Trent for stepping outside his comfort zone to try something new, but that record fell short for me. It wasn't so much the experimental sound on say, "God break down the door", it's the 2 instrumental pieces in the middle that take me out of the record. Maybe 1 instrument piece, but 2 on a 6 track record? That's 1/3 of the record right there. Not for me.


"The Background World" might squeak past it for my favorite track of the Trilogy.

Background World is TIGHT. Best song on Add Violence, for sure. Very, very close second to being best song of the trilogy for me too. Seems like we share similar views on NIN songs more than we share views on Manson songs, lol.

[HWB]

Totally agree. NTAE is up there and on par with "The Fragile". As bold of a statement that is. I always liked that EP, and it sounds just as good now as it did 3.5 years ago. That EP has my favourite song from the whole trilogy... "The idea of You". I always thought this song would be AMAZING in a live setting, and I was really shocked to see he never played it live. The song is just begging to be played live in front of a crowd.

I feel like NTAE has the best songs of the bunch. There is no "lull" moments. It has 5 banging tracks that you don't need to skip a single one. Sorry to say... but Bad Witch is the weakest of the bunch. Appreciate Trent for stepping outside his comfort zone to try something new, but that record fell short for me. It wasn't so much the experimental sound on say, "God break down the door", it's the 2 instrumental pieces in the middle that take me out of the record. Maybe 1 instrument piece, but 2 on a 6 track record? That's 1/3 of the record right there. Not for me.
I think Bad Witch benefits the most from being played along with NTAE/AV, people say it stands really well on its own, but I think it actually benefits the most from being played with NTAE and AV, while I feel like NTAE and AV can be digested on ther own without any issues.

Not to take anything from BW, I think it's absolutely superb. but the instrumental tracks feel far better after NTAE/AV, it fits the pacing.

[ManBurning]

Thinking/talking/reminiscing about the trilogy has gotten me mad jonesin' for some new NIN material.
None of this Ghosts 5, 6 ,7, 8, 9 crap either (thems fighting words around here).

Give me some good old fashioned songs with Trent's vocals in them!

Screaming about shit mirrors! Doesn't get any better than that.

[Tom]

NTAE effectively reignited my fandom after a decade. I'd eagerly followed all the scoring work through that period, but hadn't really dug into any nin-proper release, except Ghosts, which I really liked. I'd give everything a cursory spin just to check in, but never felt like playing anything more than once. But NTAE really grabbed me, and prompted me to reexamine the material from the decade I'd ignored. I think I prefer Bad Witch overall - love the overall sound on that one, and I'm partial to instrumentals. But yes, NTAE is excellent.

[ManBurning]

I wouldn't put it within spitting distance of The Fragile, though.


Back to healthily disagreeing we are.
That didn't last long.

But, in all fairness (too lazy to quote the other parts), you and I's general opinion of the trilogy songs seems, pretty spot on.
"Background World" and "This isn't the place" 2 of my favs.
"Shit Mirror and "Ahead of ourselves" love, love, love these tracks.
"Less than" being a hand that feeds type song, it's OK for what it is, I don't hate it. It serves it's purpose for the sake of the trilogy.
Same feeling about "Not Anymore" it's good, just doesn't really grab me like the rest.

I still stand by that NTAE, and to a lesser extent, some of Add Violence (This isn't the place, Background world) is his best stuff since The Fragile.

I'm really excited to see where he goes next. I feel like he's reaching a second musical peak again. I feel good stuff coming from this man on the next release.

[HWB]

I am a big fan of NTAE's vocals. Just, the vocals in The Trilogy in general isi something to talk about, I feel like this Trilogy saw an amazing use of his vocals, his deep, deep tones on She's Gone Away are incredibly and I doubt he would be able to do that in the 90s and sell it and it works so well, his vocal performance on that song adds so much to it, it's fucking incredible and I hope he will abuse the fuck out of his deep disturbing voice in future releases sometimes.

As for aggressive songs here...he hasn't managed to sell these pissed off vocals so well since With_Teeth in my opinion, when I heard Branches/Bones chorus...man, I honestly thought I was dreaming to hear the vocals be so effective.

I don't have a problem with spoken-word style personally, they have been kind of a part of NIN for a long time, I think it goes back to I Do Not Want This? I really like the whispery anxious use of them in The Idea Of You, they work perfectly and I cannot imagine them in any other way, it adds so much paranoia to the song which is building up to that explosive chorus.

I also think that Burning Bright's lyrics are more screamed/yelled rather than just spoken, that song is probably one of the most pissed off songs in the entire discography for me, it just presents such insane apocalyptic imagery that I can't help but be sucked in, especially when the second verse starts which is just utterly fucking insane in every way imaginable.

Also, man, those screamed vocals on Shit Mirror? Again, I cannot recall a Post-Teeth track where he sounds better, I dunno how he did it, but I was beyond impressed when his voice came in.

I don't know what "problem" I've had with Year Zero's/Slip's aggressive studio vocals, they sounded like they were "restrained" when they didn't need to be and it's not like Trent wasn't capable of more of an unrestrained performance at that point, the rehearsals for The Slip present a far more of an intense performance from him, kind of strange! Anyone else feels that way? I dunno. The best comparison is "Head Down".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNNNS-i33TY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNNNS-i33TY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXksJZ7gqOg

Maybe it could be that those two releases didn't "distort" his vocals much? I know distortion can make your vocals sound far more aggressive, but I am not sure if it's just that, since Lettng You's vocals are distorted and I still for some reason feel that feeling as if he was holding himself back, it could just be me thinking that at the moment and I may regret making such claims about the vocals on The Slip, but yeah.

[ManBurning]

The Slip present a far more of an intense performance from him, kind of strange! Anyone else feels that way? I dunno. The best comparison is "Head Down".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNNNS-i33TY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNNNS-i33TY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXksJZ7gqOg

Maybe it could be that those two releases didn't "distort" his vocals much? I know distortion can make your vocals sound far more aggressive, but I am not sure if it's just that, since Lettng You's vocals are distorted and I still for some reason feel that feeling as if he was holding himself back, it could just be me thinking that at the moment and I may regret making such claims about the vocals on The Slip, but yeah.

Studio NIN and Live/Rehearsal NIN have always just been different beasts. He does go harder/more aggressive with some of the Slip songs Live than he does on the recording, for sure.
And Head Down. Magnificent. Absolutely fan-fan-fan-tastic track!

[HWB]

Studio NIN and Live/Rehearsal NIN have always just been different beasts. He does go harder/more aggressive with some of the Slip songs Live than he does on the recording, for sure.
And Head Down. Magnificent. Absolutely fan-fan-fan-tastic track!
Yeah, there always been a difference in intensity, but I feel like that difference became far bigger Post-Teeth, I feel like that With_Teeth's intensity matched their live counter-parts fairly well, but the difference became far bigger than ever after that and I am not sure why that is. I do not mean to complain or so as I do find myself something like these more "tamed" vocals, but it was an odd thing I noticed that happened during this time, which seems to have ended now though.

And indeed, Head Down is absolutely incredible.

[Max]

Since a few people brought up NTAE, Add Violence and Bad Witch, I just want to chime in and say that these are three FLAWLESS Records. This output is as good if not better than anything he has ever done. I have been around since the days of The Downward Spiral which I have always considered a perfect album. But The Trilogy is exquisite. There is a depth of story to be explored, a look both outward and inward. Vocals have such a range that he has never quite explored before, the music really pushes the boundaries in new directions. It’s absolutely inspiring. If TDS was the only great thing he ever made, he should still be a legend, but to continue pushing yourself this hard, with this much passion as you age, is fantastically inspiring to me. It gives us all hope that our best days, our best work might still be ahead of us. As Trent has said, he’s always ten years ahead, and I think in a few years people will really are just how visionary these records are.

[HWB]

Since a few people brought up NTAE, Add Violence and Bad Witch, I just want to chime in and say that these are three FLAWLESS Records. This output is as good if not better than anything he has ever done. I have been around since the days of The Downward Spiral which I have always considered a perfect album. But The Trilogy is exquisite. There is a depth of story to be explored, a look both outward and inward. Vocals have such a range that he has never quite explored before, the music really pushes the boundaries in new directions. It’s absolutely inspiring. If TDS was the only great thing he ever made, he should still be a legend, but to continue pushing yourself this hard, with this much passion as you age, is fantastically inspiring to me. It gives us all hope that our best days, our best work might still be ahead of us. As Trent has said, he’s always ten years ahead, and I think in a few years people will really are just how visionary these records are.
The Trilogy is equal to The Downward Spiral or The Fragile, I know many willl disagree but I think time will be really kind to these records especially when more and more people realize they are meant to be listened as a one album

[Deacon Blackfire]

And let me ask, do you have highlights you can readily point out?

And I guess I just wanted to tell you
As the light starts to fade
That you are the reason
That I am not afraid
And I guess I just wanted to mention
As the heavens will fall
We will be together soon
If we will be anything at all

Really all of Year Zero is a high-water mark for Trent lyrically in my opinion. But I feel like Trent's lyrics, in particular among musical artists, demand context for proper power. Its his delivery that gives his lyrics their true power and isolated from the music, their strength does not show nearly as strongly. Like, for instance, "And don't tell me that you care / There really isn't anything now is there?" doesn't seem so strong written out but its delivery in I Do Not Want This makes it an unforgettable line for me. Ditto for "There is no moving past / There is no better place / There is no future point in time / We will not get away" from The Background World. Read off the screen, pretty straightforward. In the song, with Trent's delivery? Unbelievably haunting.

I like Trent's lyrics, but they are generally done a disservice when isolated from the music. Interestingly enough, I think Trent's best prose writing often emerges in the hidden lyrics that were never recorded or meant to be musically arranged in the first place. The Life You Didn't Lead (https://www.nin.wiki/The_Life_You_Didn%27t_Lead) from the With Teeth poster is just gorgeous, and the hidden unsung lyrics in Branches/Bones (https://www.nin.wiki/Branches/Bones#Lyrics), The Background World (https://www.nin.wiki/The_Background_World#Lyrics), and God Break Down the Door (https://www.nin.wiki/God_Break_Down_The_Door#Lyrics) aren't just powerfully eerie - they're arguably some of the most important lines in the Trilogy, verging on being literal thesis statements for each release. When's he's writing to fit music, the music comes first. When the lyrics are meant to be digested separately, or dreamily spill over a soundscape without rhyming (a la The New Flesh, parts of Zero-Sum, Burning Bright (Field On Fire), The Lovers, etc), I find they leave a lingering impact all on their own.

But then again, I happen to be a huge fan of Trent's spoken word style lyrics, and fucking adore Burning Bright. I'll throw my two cents in with those singing the Trilogy's praises here, what an incredible work(s). Definitely stands tall with some of my all time favorite NIN material. I remember like two days after Ghosts V-VI came out there were people talking about how much more they liked it than the Trilogy and I thought my head might explode.

And yes Head Down fucking rules. Strong contender for best track on The Slip but that has always been a deceptively strong album.

In any case, even at his most immature, I have always appreciated the nakedly frank, open, and honest style of Trent's lyrics. He has become a better wordsmith for sure, but his lyrics have never felt anything less than genuine, warts and all. In my opinion it's far preferable to try-hard intellectual wankery where calculated pretension buries anything potentially embarrassing or threatening to a carefully cultivated image.

[Hyperpower]

Since a few people brought up NTAE, Add Violence and Bad Witch, I just want to chime in and say that these are three FLAWLESS Records. This output is as good if not better than anything he has ever done. I have been around since the days of The Downward Spiral which I have always considered a perfect album. But The Trilogy is exquisite. There is a depth of story to be explored, a look both outward and inward. Vocals have such a range that he has never quite explored before, the music really pushes the boundaries in new directions. It’s absolutely inspiring. If TDS was the only great thing he ever made, he should still be a legend, but to continue pushing yourself this hard, with this much passion as you age, is fantastically inspiring to me. It gives us all hope that our best days, our best work might still be ahead of us. As Trent has said, he’s always ten years ahead, and I think in a few years people will really are just how visionary these records are.

i agree and i think you described this very well. i will even go as far as to say, TR's storytelling throughout the NIN discography has been top notch and because its been so good for so long, we need stuff like the Year Zero tv series, perhaps a tv series based on the NTAE/AV/BW trilogy as well. i feel something like these works are important in the times we live in today.

[Deacon Blackfire]

the spoken parts of "I Do Not Want This," used in that scope in the track, are stark and incredibly musically effective—I was heartbroken to find he didn't do them live.

Yeah this is a perfect example of what I was talking about. His language becomes much more descriptive and evocative in these places outside the Verse-Chorus-Verse-Chorus settings. Within those settings, they serve a musical purpose as vitally as they serve a narrative purpose. Outside those settings, the art of language is more heavily emphasized. I think for Trent the music comes first - clearly he's an intelligent man in a number of ways, but his genius is his mind for music, and so I think lyrics that appropriately fill a song and carry the right tune takes precedence to him over stunning poetry. Except of course with a song like The Lovers, which began with poetry not designed to fit a song structure.


Up in that Manson thread, we'd been discussing old albums and gotten to Golden Age of Grotesque, when @Tom (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=5751) mentioned that it was the intentionally "clever art" aspect of the project that bugged him. I concurred.

(amazing RJD2 anecdote)

I say this again here, because I agree with your statement and thank the heavens that Trent has never gone this route—especially since it's a common pitfall for long-time writers and I imagine it was hugely tempting direction, at least with With Teeth, based on everything he said about that process and a knowledge of how recovery works. Say what you want about Nine Inch Nails' lyrics—a lot of people do—but they've never been anything less than unashamed of themselves. From "The Only Time" to "Only," Nine Inch Nails tracks are pretty unabashed. Perhaps out of a sense of discretion, perhaps out of a desire for audience projection, they've always been intentionally lyrically abstract. This does make his lyrics harder to isolate outside of their in-song context and cite in snippets as works of poetic genius, but I don't think that's what he's ever been going for—he's not John Samson or Colin Meloy. He's never seemed like he was torturing himself on trying to create something cleverer than he'd ever done. I'm certainly grateful for that.

Ah I knew I could count on you to make my point better than I did! Completely on point. Just this whole response. *chef's kiss*

Even when he was grappling with the pressures of fame and following up success in the Fragility era, perhaps letting those insecurities affect his artistic judgment (in my opinion indicated by the very existence of Starfuckers, Inc., regardless of how you feel about it), the lyrical content seemed to pretty honestly reflect where he was at the time and not hide in some aloof literary subterfuge. I've always felt Where Is Everybody?, while not one of the most poetic examples of NIN lyrics, evidences this ("But for all I aspire / I am really a liar...God damn I am so tired of pretending / Of wishing I was ending / When all I'm really doing is trying to hide").


From the beginning, too. I was sad when, back in '94, I found the Purest Feeling demo and the final "Ringfinger" lyric—"I'm so tired I can't get to sleep/ And the squeaking of the bed is right in time/ with the song that's repeating in my head/ I just want you to know "When I do it, I only think of you"—proved to have never been sung, even back in the early sessions (you can absolutely and effectively sing unrhymed lyrics; I think someone above suggested otherwise). For some reason, that line always stuck with me—it's the kind of concrete narrative detail often absent from his sung vocals, very evocative of a particular image or scene and not just abstract concept.

And I'm still waiting for "The Life You Didn't Lead" to appear from somewhere—in truth, I was hoping beyond hope that it would be a part of the With Teeth Definitive Edition and, though I still haven't been able to afford it, I would have probably done something ill-advised if that had come out with it.

Wow, another perfect callback, I wasn't even thinking about the hidden lyrics in Ringfinger or Something I Can Never Have (https://www.nin.wiki/Something_I_Can_Never_Have#Lyrics)! You're right, those lines in the former in particular have a lingering presence to them. And they may not be on Pretty Hate Machine or Purest Feeling, but they were on the other (demo?) version of Twist!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_muSYMMoT8k

Now that I think about it, Pretty Hate Machine has a pretty significant amount of unsung / "hidden" lyrics.

And yeah I would love to know whether The Life You Didn't Lead and Message to No One had musical forms or if they were just lyrical embellishments of With Teeth's narrative. Given The Warning on the With Teeth poster was clearly an early version of the Year Zero track (only made super evident when the With Teeth deluxe edition made people realize that there were lyrics embedded beneath the title which closely resemble the final song's), I'm leaning toward the former. Just lump them into the Holy Grail collection of lost / potentially reworked NIN songs, along with My Dead Friend, the unreleased tracks listed on that maaaaybe real With Teeth promo (https://imgur.com/a/GbPUI6R) (Cover It Up, Good Day, The End), and most importantly, Just Do It. Oh, and any Deviations songs that had finished vocals.


Ha. I had the same reaction as @Deacon Blackfire . And after a night to sleep on it—we started this discussion way too late for me last night—I guess what keeps the Trilogy from being categorized up there with The Fragile or Spiral for me is a certain lack of cohesion in the project as a whole that might, in part, be because it was delivered in serialized fashion. Sure, Trent and everyone can say that they're to be digested as one complete work—that's fine and true. But if you listened to each of them upon release, you had time to explore and elaborate on them—at least the first two installments—outside of the context of the others. Ask anyone working in television in the age of streaming: Shows that make you wait between episodes have very different levels of fan engagement and much more diverse reception. Why? Because the audience is given time to think about trees and not just a forest. All three records of the Trilogy are excellent in their own way. All three are complex and lyrically and thematically rich. But, for me, they will probably never approach Fragile or Spiral because their presentation left plenty of time to tease out interpretations of and insights into the records that leave the project as a whole feeling less cohesive.

This is, as usual, an extremely articulate and nuanced opinion that I 100% get. It's always hard for me to rank the NIN discography - even now I'm not positive what my absolute favorite is, despite usually leaning toward TDS as the best overall - and when it comes to hallowed ground like The Downward Spiral and The Fragile it's hard for even terrific new material compare to that audience relationship and mystique, especially when it's released like the Trilogy in a way that approaches the format and how the music will be digested so differently.


A shitload of contemporaneous critics agreed with you. Everyone—myself included—was happy to see Trent get out of his own head for a while. I'd be intrigued to see how much of the supplemental material from the ARG he had a hand in.

Would be very interested in finding out as well.

This is one of the reasons why Right Where It Belongs is not just a great closer, but a perfect bridge to Year Zero and the next era of Nine Inch Nails. At the close of an album all about (more or less) the long and hard road back to reality through sobriety, the final track is a quietly building recognition of how even outside the illusion of addiction, something is terribly wrong with the world - something outside of himself. No longer blinded by inner turmoil, the outer turmoil is laid bare. The With Teeth Tour visuals for the song made the political commentary lurking beneath the surface much more overt. And then, enter Year Zero, perfectly on cue.

[bobbie solo]

I think I've said this on here before: Trent is purposefully saving Idea of You as an "oh shit" moment for us nerds on a future tour. As said that song is begging to be played live, so I think it was a very conscious decision to save it. Which is totally fair considering all the older classics he dropped on us out of nowhere in 2018. Gotta keep some in the holster.

[r_z]

I wasn't prepared for a RJD2 mention in this here thread. Excellent story right there.

(I dug his productions for other artists more than his solo stuff, though, Deadringer included.

Have you listened to this very very underrated album (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_A.M._(album))? It's got a few of RJD2s best ever beats on it, imo)

[HWB]

Demon Seed is absolutely excellent.

[HWB]

You know, I often wonder about genres, like what genre do specific NIN albums fit into, like, what is Hesitation Marks genre-wise? Some people call it an Electro-Industrial record yet I think it is perhaps little bit too clean for that? Maybe Synthpop/EBM with a hint of Alt Rock in some tracks? I don't know but I wonder a lot.

[kaydraven]

The Trilogy as a whole has grown on me over the years. I wasn't completely sold on all of NTAE when I first heard it, but the more I listen to it, the more I love it. Add Violence was an instant winner for me, but that's because I'm still a sucker for the hard, fast aggressive NIN. Bad Witch is still my least favorite, but I do like it for the weirdness and the risks that he takes on the record. It shows that the NIN story isn't over and it's a peak at where he could take it next, which makes me so excited for the next album, EP, whatever the hell it is. I will say, all three releases blew me away with the vocals. Some of them were so damn sinister they gave me chills! And of course Trent singing on God Breakdown the Door. Completely unexpected, but I think it works. I just like that he keeps finding ways to actually make new, exciting, and provocative music rather than gives us 5 more versions of TDS.

[MrLobster]

I got one thing besides colossal debt for certain: an uncompromising hatred of the idea of genres. Genres are boxes created by humans for the convenience of humans.

Yeah, this. I like genre's as a concept in the broadest possible brushstrokes but once you start trying to define the details, one can get lost in the minutia of it all (and then you have 100s of sub-genres). What I dislike the most is those who self-label themselves/their music and they obviously are neglecting crucial aspects of that label... which is why i tend to let others do the labelling and if whatever *I'm* doing doesn't fit that label, it's not my concern. I wasn't trying to meet others expectations/definitions.

[MrLobster]

A big problem, though, is that most people are so into the idea of classification that—especially in our system—artists have to lean into that sort of self-labelling if they want to reach larger audiences. Which is fine...ish....sometimes, except for all the times it's actually a disservice. I spoke with a literary agent one time who pressed me to the point of incomprehensibility to tag my fiction with genre descriptors. I had to be a good salesperson. And she had a very annoying spreadsheet that amounted, essentially, to stickers for me to pick and slap on myself.

"Where shall we put William Gibson today? Sci-Fi, Fiction Bestsellers (New York Times) or Canadian..."

[MrLobster]

I would absolutely argue that it’s served Nine Inch Nails poorly.

In my digital library, they are listed as "Electronic".

[Tom]

Genre labels are helpful insofar as they mark certain ways in which pieces of music resemble one another. They can tell us that a given piece of music resembles some other pieces of music in certain relevant respect. Taken at this level, as just describing certain family resemblances, they're fairly harmless, and sometimes be helpful. They're problematic though when they're taken to mark fundamental categories, or natural kinds, with certain necessary and sufficient conditions for inclusion and exclusion. So understood, genres don't intersect; they can subdivide, but they don't overlap. And so for any piece of music the question arises as to which one of these categories it belongs to, and disagreements pointlessly ensue. If we just think of genres as labels for family resemblances, these disagreements (at least) shouldn't get started, since it's perfectly possible for a single piece of music to resemble very different pieces of music in very different respects. I think Nine Inch Nails is a good example of this, which is why it's always been so difficult to box it into a particular genre.


In my digital library, they are listed as "Electronic".
Ditto!

[HWB]

I still find the genre discussion interesting, I do not get hanged up over it but we have them for a reason, the more complicated it is to pin point a genre on a record the more interesting it is to me and I find the discussion of that interesting. I know some people get really hostile about it like "AAAA how dare you call NIN any type of Industrial?!" but I think my question was fairly innocent and just curious, I do not intend to gate keep or anything lke that, we have genres for a reason and they help music discussion quite a bit, I don't genres did NIN wrong, it's just people who do not know how to properly use them.

[HWB]

Discussing genres and recongizing them can help you notice where the artist took influences form and Trent totally took influences from specific bands and genres throughout the years. It helps you notice how music has developed, how Blues Rock would give-away to Metal, how Swan's sound would went to influence Godflesh which gave away to Industrial Metal, I think learning all of that is amazing, I do not know why some people get so angry/hostile over a genre discussion when it is a calm and collected one rather the one which gate-keeps.

With Nine Inch Nails, I do not think it is that complicated, yes, Trent does have his own unqiue sound which he build upon over the years but the influences are obvious where they came from I would say they fit mostly Industrial Rock with various of sub-genres being attached depending on what record you are listening to with focus being also to another genre alongside Industrial Rock, but Industrial Rock is almost always present. There are expections, those being the latest Ghost records and Hesitation Marks which still has its own Industrial Rock moments in various of songs (Came Back Haunted) but at its core it is far more focused on Electronics, percussion/drum machines, And Still, of course.


As someone who makes musc, attempting to label your own work with genres is unbelivably hard and you almost have to do it, it'S no easy feat for sure, it is interesting to hear what different people hear depending on what genre they think the music is.

[Tom]

If I'm ever in a position where I have to pin nin down to a genre I invariably say 'industrial pop'. That's not meant to be at all disparaging (Trent has frequently used the term 'pop' to describe his music). It certainly has it's more rockish moments, but still I find 'pop' better as a catchall.

[HWB]

If I'm ever in a position where I have to pin nin down to a genre I invariably say 'industrial pop'. That's not meant to be at all disparaging (Trent has frequently used the term 'pop' to describe his music). It certainly has it's more rockish moments, but still I find 'pop' better as a catchall.
Mmmmh.
For the most part, Industrial Rock fits perfectly for me for a lot of records at least. At least for me, I will admit that even when Trent writes more abbrasively his songs tend to have a lot of hooks, but I am still not sure if I could call majority of his works Poppish even if it is full of hooks. It is certainly not on the same level as Ministry or Skinny Puppy, obviously.

A lot of Industrial Rock can be very accessible already and NIN's focus on Rock is quite major for the most part when you look through their discography.

But!

I will admit that there are specific works in NIN which are far more leaning into Pop territory than others and do not put big emphasis on Rock instrumentals...specifically Pretty Hate Machine and Hesitation Marks.

I guess this may sound dumb but I was considering that NIN can be Synth-Poppy when this happens? Like Pretty Hate Machine and Hesitation Marks..I was considering those were partly Synthpop but I can't say that with much of confidence. I am conflicted with Hesitation Marks in particular, if it's SynthPop or EBM

Industrial Pop sounds like an interesting term, but, it's not quite established and has never really been used by anybody so I do not know what it would consist of and how you would seperate Industrial Rock from Industrial Pop.

Actually!

Maybe EBM is "Industrial Pop"? One of its alternative names is "Industrial Dance" So maybe that could fit this side of NIN?

[BRoswell]

Honestly, aside from Broken and The Downward Spiral, I wouldn't really call Nine Inch Nails industrial. After The Downward Spiral era, Trent made an effort to distance himself from that label. I certainly wouldn't call anything after that album industrial, although there are industrial tinges that are present on some tracks that followed it.

[HWB]

Tbh NIN almost were never full-blown "Industrial" I think the only full-blown Industrial thing NIN did back then was probably Quake Soundtrack, but almost always were Industrial Rock, even "With_Teeth" has a lot of moments which fit the Industrial Rock imho and that is probably the closets he has come to Alt.Rock in his career.

[Magnetic]

I never really think of NIN in a genre. If I want to listen to NIN, it's a certain album or (the horror!) a mix I've made. But most of the music I listen to in that fashion. I'm in the mood for the artist, not the genre.
Maybe I'll go from Verve's Stormcloud in Heave to DM's Song of Faith and Devotion...there's blends or "genres" if you must. Asobi Seksu and Slowdive blend well.

But rarely do I mix my listening of NIN. From the harder to the softer...I don't see the point.

[r_z]

Regarding the discussion of NINs lyrics from a few days ago: Yesterday there was an article on The Quietus (founded by the guy who wrote TDS DLX liner notes) by a singer about Cormac McCarthy. In it he posed the question of how to write lyrics knowing he won't ever be able to reach the levels of acclaimed authors such as McCarthy. Here are some quotes:


So-called “creatives” waste giant swathes of our lives trying to find new ways to articulate universal experiences. As soldiers in the war of expression we come armed to the teeth with hubris. Our feelings run so much deeper than those of civilians who rely on our work to escape from or make sense of their excruciatingly basic lives. We are artists. Art is sacred. Bow the fuck down.

Of course, this sentiment is by and large bullshit. What I am trying to say through a metric ton of overwrought hyperbole is: We sure think we’re special. There are exceptions, but generally even the humblest among us have a bug up their ass about their work carrying a degree of importance.

Like so many boring middle-aged men, I am constantly trying to rip off Mr. McCarthy in my own half-cocked way. I write songs about isolation and alienation, loneliness and regret. My work is a banal prayer for redemption, peppered with moments of hope among ubiquitous violence. There is little to nothing original about what I write, and I am at peace with that. I write about subjects that I identify with, in a manner that makes sense to me. I write for spiritual and psychological release. I write because, although conceptually unoriginal, the thing that I want to create doesn’t quite exist yet.

Now, what the fuck does any of this have to do with Cormac McCarthy?

Everything he does has been done before, he just does it better than most. I try to keep this example in mind every time I start writing weird for the sake of writing weird. There’s no need to reinvent the wheel when your goal is to make something relatable. Now, I’ll never be one iota as good as Cormac McCarthy at anything at all but if he’s content to walk in the shadow of giants maybe I should worry less about being original and more about not falling on my fucking face while trying to structure a sentence.

https://thequietus.com/articles/28779-michael-berdan-uniform-cormac-mccarthy-things-i-have-learned

[Fadeout54321]

Today is the 11 year anniversary of the Webster Hall TDS show. Going to watch the video later today. This still remains my #1 all time show of any band. Such a great memory.

[tap3worm]

I love that the industrial argument rages on.

[HWB]

I love that the industrial argument rages on.
Reminds me of this exchange on RateYourMusic's With_Teeth's genre voting comment section.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/682547110985728017/747378375936573440/unknown.png

Love it.

[fillow]

Does this remind you of anything? :D

https://youtu.be/GfN2U7ERi8I

(Sorry for the shitty song)

[HWB]

I woke up today to find myself finding The Slip a 10/10

[BRoswell]

Does this remind you of anything? :D

https://youtu.be/GfN2U7ERi8I

(Sorry for the shitty song)

[insert terrible Russian reversal joke here]

[HWB]

Sounds like the beginning of an Even Deeper parody.
Wasn't intending it to but I edited it to be even more like Even Deeper

[Archive_Reports]

Does this remind you of anything? :D

https://youtu.be/GfN2U7ERi8I

(Sorry for the shitty song)

I listened to damn near the entire track before I realized it was in reference to the video.

[Detunez]

Could be seen as an ode to the original, or a straight copy. now we need another copy to get a copy of a copy. :p

[WorzelG]

Given the sheer quantity of interviews for Watchmen and knowing Mank is Oscar bait and Pixar films tend to be Oscar nominated, we’ll probably get no press for new NIN as theyll be so burnt out on interviews!

[katara]

Given the sheer quantity of interviews for Watchmen and knowing Mank is Oscar bait and Pixar films tend to be Oscar nominated, we’ll probably get no press for new NIN as theyll be so burnt out on interviews!
You're most likely correct. Their schedules are sure to be flooded.

We already got new NIN this year, so that alongside all these new soundtracks, plus the fact that they can't tour a new album right now due to CV19 means that we probably won't hear anything else NIN-related until 2021.

Honestly, I'm so burnt out on soundtrack stuff that it feels like we haven't had a NIN release since Bad Witch three years ago. Sorry to be controversial; I'm just impatient to hear TR's voice again.

[ekrekel]

You're most likely correct. Their schedules are sure to be flooded.

We already got new NIN this year, so that alongside all these new soundtracks, plus the fact that they can't tour a new album right now due to CV19 means that we probably won't hear anything else NIN-related until 2021.

Honestly, I'm so burnt out on soundtrack stuff that it feels like we haven't had a NIN release since Bad Witch three years ago. Sorry to be controversial; I'm just impatient to hear TR's voice again.

What? The 2 seconds of Trent's discernible voice at the end of Babysitter didn't do it for you?

[HWB]

Bad Witch (Trilogy iin general) has some of the best vocals Trent has gave us in a while, Shit Mirror's aggressive vocals are so good!

[eversonpoe]

Bad Witch (Trilogy iin general) has some of the best vocals Trent has gave us in a while, Shit Mirror's aggressive vocals are so good!

100% agreed. and i actually love that in the live version, robin got to do those vocals, because his voice is perfect for them.

i still think that "this isn't the place" is one of trent's best vocal performances ever, and that song is easily in my top 5 NIN songs of all time.

[HWB]

i still think that "this isn't the place" is one of trent's best vocal performances ever, and that song is easily in my top 5 NIN songs of all time.
I swear to God, Trent sounds like he is sobbing through that song when his vocals enter, it may be one of the more depressing NIN songs of all time after Trent indeed confirmed it is about Bowie, utterly heart-breaking.

[HWB]

Do you have a source handy for this? I'd never heard that.

Given the presumed themes of the Trilogy at the point this record was released, I assumed it was a fleshed out version of "My Dead Friend" from the With Teeth sessions. Something that might have come earlier on the record and acted as a paired bookend with "Beside You in Time." Which is probably where it'll remain for me, thanks to three years of thinking about this every time it played. But hearing the actual story would be cool, too.
After This Isn't The Place was been played at Phoenix Broken Show Trent said this;

“That was written about a friend of mine, & we actually worked on this next song a few years back”.

And then he jumped into "I'm Afraid Of Americans".

[r_z]

Speaking of the trilogy, this album artwork always strikes me as very similar to the frontcover of Bad Witch. The fact it's also a 6 song mini-LP is funny, too.

https://img.discogs.com/d4Y2KP3FqoxLus2lnhjyuYCqbQ8=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():qualit y(90)/discogs-images/R-30051-1279969660.jpeg.jpg

[ekrekel]

Speaking of the trilogy, this album artwork always strikes me as very similar to the frontcover of Bad Witch. The fact it's also a 6 song mini-LP is funny, too.



Never heard it. It'd be very hard to claim it wasn't an inspiration, any parallels or connections?

[r_z]

Never heard it. It'd be very hard to claim it wasn't an inspiration, any parallels or connections?

It's New Wave from 1983. So in terms of style it's vastly different. But as with many albums by Nelson (who's been an influence on Bowie ca Earthling era and also worked with Gary Numan) it's also musically very adventurous. That might be a parallel. Though I would be surprised if TR ever heard it.

But judge for yourself. Here are two songs, the first one being the lead single:


https://youtu.be/DBUxj8G7OOQ


https://youtu.be/xnfKzoqW--A

[botley]

Never heard it. It'd be very hard to claim it wasn't an inspiration, any parallels or connections?
I like that album! Never occured to me that the cover art was similar, because I owned it on a CD packaged with a different cover (from Savage Gestures for Charm's Sake, another mini-album). It's pretty, moody, new wave dreampop. Not much connection to the sound of Bad Witch (except mayyybe for the beat of "Over and Out"?)...

[snaapz]

Been thinking about this song lately, group of 6 including Justin Meldal-Johnsen who was at the time involved with/touring with NIN.


<span class="bold">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_g14q8V0lA

[shagg_187]

Been thinking about this song lately, group of 6 including Justin Meldal-Johnsen who was at the time involved with/touring with NIN.


<span class="bold">
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_g14q8V0lA

Ken Andrews is a genius.

Fun fact: He helped with the production/mixing of "The Slip" Live at Rehearsal.

[eachpassingphase]

100% agreed. and i actually love that in the live version, robin got to do those vocals, because his voice is perfect for them.


Having Robin sing the verses for Shit Mirror during live shows was a brilliant decision. It gave the song a sort of punk urgency that I really like, and it's one of the handful of NIN songs that I prefer the live version of.

[scorpiusdiamond]

Having Robin sing the verses for Shit Mirror during live shows was a brilliant decision. It gave the song a sort of punk urgency that I really like, and it's one of the handful of NIN songs that I prefer the live version of.

I saw it's live debut (humblebrag) and I think I just about lost it when he kicked in with the first verse.
Was the same when I saw them do Reptile - Robin's vocals in that are phenomenal.

[kaydraven]

As much as I like Trent's voice, I love hearing Robin sing on tracks like Reptile and Shit Mirror.

[HWB]

I always loved Discipline, but just recently I have completely fallen in love with it and I don't know why, it may be one of my favorite "Pop-ier" NIN songs ever. It is impossible to resist it, I absolutely adore how it still has a really noisy production and layers but it's so fucking catchy.

[HWB]

I’ve always been a fan, myself. The first licks of guitar, where it sounds really ragged, just grab me, then I’m 100% in for a solid pop romp.
Whah instantly grabs me is that guitar too..is it guitar? I have no idea if it's just some kind of a synth, it's so dancey and electronical sounding.
In general I really love the guitar on The Slip, I wonder what they did to make them sound like that on some tracks, especially Discipline.

[kaydraven]

Everything about Discipline is so infectious from the opening drums to the fuzzy guitar riff to Trent's vocals. There's also this great groove to it that gets your hips shaking. It's such a great song and one that could listen to on repeat and never get tired of it.

[BRoswell]

It's a shame we never got anything in terms of remixes for the EP trilogy. Most of the albums had remixes released for them, and Ghosts I-IV and The Slip had their multitracks released. It would have been cool to hear some variations on the material.

[Magnetic]

I suppose it is probably synth, yes. Or heavily processed guitar.

I'd go with guitar. This song to me is just a slam drunk and under-rated (IMO). It's the perfect combo of awesome riff, harsh guitar, piano, lyric, vocal range from TR. The song is just infectious.

[neorev]

I was watching GoodBadFlicks on YouTube and their video on the movie Class Of 1999. It mentioned how the crew would go to local shows trying to find new music. One of the bands they met was Nine Inch Nails, who allowed them to use their music in the movie if they paid $100 per track. It mentioned how this may be the first movie to feature NIN music. A funny thing, in the movie credits, they are listed as The Nine Inch Nails. Thought that was funny with the whole third Watchmen vinyl retconning the history of NIN to TNIN.


https://youtu.be/6-ELx2P8fHw

https://i.imgur.com/gQjntE1.jpg

[HWB]

I suppose it is probably synth, yes. Or heavily processed guitar.
The version they do in reharsals is very different, they do open up with a guitar and the "synth" that we find so infectious comes in far later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=RDwg2v5vjz_H8&amp;v=8Lqsx2Jn4hE

The Slip is just such a catchy record which grabs me instantly, the first half of it is just superb Industrial Rock fun. I always thought that The Slip was the "coolest" most "fun" record, not calling it best, but the coolest, it's the album with the sunglasses.

[eversonpoe]

it's the album with the sunglasses.

i wish i had photoshop skills so i could slap a pair of sunglasses on the cover art haha

[HWB]

For being a mostly Electro-Industrial record - Year Zero has some of my favorite guitars.

- The descending guitar at the end of Survivalism
- "Good Soldier" outro,
- The Warning
- Meet Your Master's outro

Year Zero has some of the best outros in NIN discography probably. Goddamn it, I love it so much.

[Tom]

On my walks, I've been revisiting the Nine Inch Nails albums I haven't lately spun as whole LPs and just did Year Zero today. There's so much to like about that album, but thirteen years later, which is hundreds of listens, and I still don't like "Vessel," though it always gets played being between the killer songs that it is.
Heh, for the longest time that was the only track on the album that I really liked! The rest has grown on me, but Vessel is still a standout.

[d1stinct]

I don't cry often; but I was reading some of the comments from the NYTimes 9/11 article while listening to Ghosts V and just kinda lost it - I'm not sure if I should blame Trent for the emotions (damn you Trent!), or just getting old and realizing all the terrible things I will have to teach my daughters about our world. I'm not even sure if this is a suitable place for this but just needed to type it out.

[TheBang]

I split off the discussion about thninchnails stuff into its own thread in the Reports & Suggestions forum.

If you want to discuss the distribution choices or argue about the moderator actions, you can do that here: 6008
If you want to download or discuss the release content, you can do that in the original thread here: 5917

[fillow]

It's been 15 years and I still can't tap/count accurately the explosion part in Beside You in Time (studio version).

[eversonpoe]

It's been 15 years and I still can't tap/count accurately the explosion part in Beside You in Time (studio version).

8
8
6
10

it's in 4/4 but it feels a bit disjointed

[eversonpoe]

8
8
6
10

it's in 4/4 but it feels a bit disjointed

you could also do it (depending on where you prefer the emphasis) as:

6
6
4
6
6
4

[fillow]

Actually you know what? I've tricked myself.
The problem is only with instrumental version from apple music! I've been listening to it much more than the vocal version lately.
Try this: after 3:11 in instrumental version, where the beat comes back, count to 32 kicks and you'll see the explosion doesn't fall on a beat like it should (and like it it does in the actual album version)

[Toadflax]

One quarter century ago tonight, 13 year-old me attended his first concert ever: Prick, Nine Inch Nails, and David Bowie (Hershey, PA)

So jealous of that little fucker.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

One quarter century ago tonight, 13 year-old me attended his first concert ever: Prick, Nine Inch Nails, and David Bowie (Hershey, PA)

So jealous of that little fucker.

Jesus christ, you're right. I was there, too. That was 25 years ago tonight. My first time seeing NIN and technically my first "real" concert of my choosing..

Will never forget hearing that mesmerizing version of Hurt they did together for the very first time, and how I remembered it in my head for nearly a year before I came across the Ultra Rare Trax bootleg that has the now-famous version from St. Louis on it..

Fuck..

[diptych]

I'm jealous too. My first (rock) concert was in early '07, Nine Inch Nails with Ladytron as opener. Not too shabby either. And there was all the excitement about the ARG, which was cool.
But still, you got to see Bowie.

[magnolia]

I went and looked immediately after seeing it last night - Trent follows the account that posted this on Twitter. I would imagine this would have to be something he signed off on?

Edit: sorry - that was in reply to both Sesquipedalism and someone else that it looks like deleted their comment?

[Max]

I deleted my comment because at first I thought it was a pro-trump video, then watched it and realized i was wrong. It has that weird amateur kind of look to it and the name of the company MidasTouch threw me off. But after watching it I thankfully realized it was anti-Trump and it all makes sense now.

[tony.parente]

I haven't seen NIN live in 7 years and that really sucks.

[scorpiusdiamond]

NIN former members spotting, both on Instagram:
Josh Freese posted a photo of a can of La Croix in a studio recently. Made me sort of wish he was doing stuff with NIN (only because it would mean new NIN)
and Aaron North was doing a live stream next to all of his guitar gear. Makes me happy he still has all that stuff despite all the crap he's been through.

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

Why are we still talking about a 10 month old soundtrack? TR has done more press for the fucking Watchmen than the last 3 NIN albums combined....

[ManBurning]

Why are we still talking about a 10 month old soundtrack? TR has done more press for the fucking Watchmen than the last 3 NIN albums combined....

Controversial opinion warning!!


And it wasn't even very good!
Fight me.

[sonic_discord]

Why are we still talking about a 10 month old soundtrack? TR has done more press for the fucking Watchmen than the last 3 NIN albums combined....

Because it's fucking awesome? Because HBO is involved? Why are you complaining about an abundance of Trent & Atticus interviews? If you're just wishing aloud that they had made some interviews centered around Bad Witch or Ghosts V & VI, I guess I'm with you there.

[scorpiusdiamond]

Maybe because they just won an Emmy?
Goddamn...

[WorzelG]

Why are we still talking about a 10 month old soundtrack? TR has done more press for the fucking Watchmen than the last 3 NIN albums combined....
Better get used to it as we have Mank to come, a total Oscar bait film for Netflix. Also I’m interested in how they did a socially distanced big band / orchestral score.

I don’t understand how people are so negative about this, it’s not stopping NIN anyway you just have to be patient. I think winning an Oscar for their first ever film score and an Emmy for their first TV score is an incredible achievement and it feels like vindication for my music taste personally. it does help that I do love the scores though

[Ash512]

Why are we still talking about a 10 month old soundtrack? TR has done more press for the fucking Watchmen than the last 3 NIN albums combined....

Awards campaigning 101: Whenever a film, performance, soundtrack etc has any chance of earning nomination, you don't just sit around and wait for things to happen. You hire a PR firm that gets the word out about your project and then you do as much press as possible to make sure the voting members hear about you. HBO definitely put some money on the table to hire PR that scored them as many interviews as possible. That's why you are still hearing about it, and have been hearing about it for months, because they knew they had decent chances of getting a nomination/win.

[WorzelG]

Remember when Patriots Day kind of flopped at the cinema? No press whatsoever as far as I can recall

[cdm]

Better get used to it as we have Mank to come, a total Oscar bait film for Netflix. Also I’m interested in how they did a socially distanced big band / orchestral score.

They're trying to get Mank out for this Oscar season, no? If so, it'll be an intense campaign but much shorter than Watchmen.

[scorpiusdiamond]

They're trying to get Mank out for this Oscar season, no? If so, it'll be an intense campaign but much shorter than Watchmen.

Not to mention Soul in November.

[sweeterthan]

it was getting drifty in nin spotting so i moved the comments here.

[muad'nin]

‘Right Where It Belongs’ is Trent’s meditation on life as a Boltzmann Brain.

[BRoswell]

Why are we still talking about a 10 month old soundtrack? TR has done more press for the fucking Watchmen than the last 3 NIN albums combined....


Why are you complaining?

Me looking at every one of their posts.

To me, it seems like Watchmen lit a creative fire for them, and with all the love that's been given to it, I can see why they want to discuss it. Also, when you get to do fun stuff like that Rolling Stone interview, why WOULDN'T you want to do it?

[cdm]

Me looking at every one of their posts.

To me, it seems like Watchmen lit a creative fire for them, and with all the love that's been given to it, I can see why they want to discuss it. Also, when you get to do fun stuff like that Rolling Stone interview, why WOULDN'T you want to do it?

Not only the LM bit at the end but having them in the studio breaking down the songs the way they did in the Rolling Stone vid (and outtake) was really great stuff. Even if the breakdown was very basic. More of that stuff, please.

[kaydraven]

I've been loving all the interviews Trent and Atticus have done regarding Watchmen. I didn't really pay attention to the score or the show upon release. But after listening to the score and watching all these interviews where they break down their process, talk about how they recorded certain things, and even just the general feelings of anxiety they had while making it, I appreciate the score even more. And it's inspired to actually watch the show. I'll gladly take all the press they're doing right now, especially since fuck all is happening in 2020. It's a welcome distraction.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Gotta say, the Watchmen score(s) gets better the more you spend time with it (them?). I've just made one long 2-hour playlist of all three and let it rip. The prolonged interview campaign for it has been entertaining as fuck, too..

As long as they are releasing new music, I couldn't care less if they do any press for it or not (Waves, Ghosts, Bird Box Deluxe). The quality is still there..

[gorast]

Had a bizarre revelation just now. I was looking through some Fragile-era artwork, and came across the cover for Things Falling Apart, and as I stared at it for a few seconds, I suddenly realized what the cover actually is. For as long as I've been into NIN, I'd always just sort of written off the TFA cover as some weird abstract tendril shit. But my caveman brain finally put the pieces together about it.

It's a blurry photo of a plant, from an underneath angle, the weird blue-grey background color being the sky. Blew my mind. It also makes the cover vastly more interesting to me, because it's actually something instead of a bunch of weird shapes.

I know that this is probably a super basic realization - plants are a fundamental part of The Fragile's entire iconography, and everything is "photo taken at weird angle and crazy blurry" - but it still is kind of crazy to me that it's a photo of something recognizable.

I had this exact same realization about Still's cover a while ago, but I think that's more justifiable because the doesn't really give you anything to work with unless you're looking at the extended art.

[Erneuert]

Had a bizarre revelation just now. I was looking through some Fragile-era artwork, and came across the cover for Things Falling Apart, and as I stared at it for a few seconds, I suddenly realized what the cover actually is. For as long as I've been into NIN, I'd always just sort of written off the TFA cover as some weird abstract tendril shit. But my caveman brain finally put the pieces together about it.

It's a blurry photo of a plant, from an underneath angle, the weird blue-grey background color being the sky. Blew my mind. It also makes the cover vastly more interesting to me, because it's actually something instead of a bunch of weird shapes.

I know that this is probably a super basic realization - plants are a fundamental part of The Fragile's entire iconography, and everything is "photo taken at weird angle and crazy blurry" - but it still is kind of crazy to me that it's a photo of something recognizable.

I had this exact same realization about Still's cover a while ago, but I think that's more justifiable because the doesn't really give you anything to work with unless you're looking at the extended art.

My caveman brain just now saw it as well. And that’s the sun in the upper right corner peeping through.

mind blown.

[kaydraven]

Had a bizarre revelation just now. I was looking through some Fragile-era artwork, and came across the cover for Things Falling Apart, and as I stared at it for a few seconds, I suddenly realized what the cover actually is. For as long as I've been into NIN, I'd always just sort of written off the TFA cover as some weird abstract tendril shit. But my caveman brain finally put the pieces together about it.

It's a blurry photo of a plant, from an underneath angle, the weird blue-grey background color being the sky. Blew my mind. It also makes the cover vastly more interesting to me, because it's actually something instead of a bunch of weird shapes.

I know that this is probably a super basic realization - plants are a fundamental part of The Fragile's entire iconography, and everything is "photo taken at weird angle and crazy blurry" - but it still is kind of crazy to me that it's a photo of something recognizable.

I had this exact same realization about Still's cover a while ago, but I think that's more justifiable because the doesn't really give you anything to work with unless you're looking at the extended art.

I've never paid enough attention to the album to really think about the art, but you're so right. Never realized it before. Now I can't even see the weird shapes I thought it was before.

[piggy]

I always knew it was a plant, but I hadn't realized that it was taken outdoors with the sky and sun in the background.

[Hazard]

maybe this helps:


https://i.ibb.co/hgtrKTd/8cd462874320b00e382b2a6c72de9e05.jpg

I haven't posted in forever and I just want to say Not the Actual Events is really good, and I really love it.

[Erneuert]

I liked it more after Deviations, when I got a better look at the waterfall on top, but I still don't care for the 80% of the cover that's a very close shot of something red—a poppy, I think?

"Cover image is a waterfall in Iceland and a seashell in the West Indies."

edit: full quote FYI -

"Back was going to be the front until the last moment. Trent changed it saying 'it was kinda irritating' yet something about it we liked so maybe it fit the music. Front cover flowers I shot outside of Austin, Texas. The 1 hour place called and said they messed up and used the wrong chemicals and the film was ruined. I said 'lemme see 'em anyway'. This is how they came out. Cover image is a waterfall in Iceland and a seashell in the West Indies."

[scorpiusdiamond]

Seemed the best place for it

https://twitter.com/simontucker1979/status/1308713612396113920

[allegate]

Just reading some wiki articles while waiting for other people to do things for me.
"Big Man with a Gun" lyrics[edit (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Downward_Spiral&action=edit&section=11)]The Downward Spiral's emphasis on transgressive themes made its lyrics vulnerable to criticism from American social conservatives (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism_in_the_United_States#Social_conservat ism_and_tradition). Senator Bob Dole (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Dole), then the head of the Republican Party (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)), sharply denounced Time Warner (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Warner), the former owner of Interscope's former parent company Warner Music Group (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_Music_Group), after a meeting between Michael J. Fuchs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_J._Fuchs) (head of WMG), William Bennett (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Bennett), and C. Delores Tucker (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Delores_Tucker). Tucker and Bennett demanded Fuchs to recite lyrics from "Big Man with a Gun", because they thought the song was an attack on American conservatives by metaphorically claiming within the lyrics they had a jingoistic (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingoism) agenda.[111] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Downward_Spiral#cite_note-111)Republicans with a jingoistic agenda? Heavens to Murgatroyd! who would think such a thing?

[zecho]

Had a bizarre revelation just now. I was looking through some Fragile-era artwork, and came across the cover for Things Falling Apart, and as I stared at it for a few seconds, I suddenly realized what the cover actually is. For as long as I've been into NIN, I'd always just sort of written off the TFA cover as some weird abstract tendril shit. But my caveman brain finally put the pieces together about it.

It's a blurry photo of a plant, from an underneath angle, the weird blue-grey background color being the sky. Blew my mind. It also makes the cover vastly more interesting to me, because it's actually something instead of a bunch of weird shapes.

I know that this is probably a super basic realization - plants are a fundamental part of The Fragile's entire iconography, and everything is "photo taken at weird angle and crazy blurry" - but it still is kind of crazy to me that it's a photo of something recognizable.

I had this exact same realization about Still's cover a while ago, but I think that's more justifiable because the doesn't really give you anything to work with unless you're looking at the extended art.

Until just now I thought that the picture was under water.


I liked it more after Deviations, when I got a better look at the waterfall on top, but I still don't care for the 80% of the cover that's a very close shot of something red—a poppy, I think?

It's definitely the inside of a seashell.

[snaapz]

I always assumed TR smashed it all apart just for the fuck of it. Is that correct or did someone else throw it all away? He tries hard and others fuck it up, not him. Thoughts?

[Erneuert]

I blame his cat for being an asshole.

[Indefinite_Cure]

I don't think Hesitation Marks is getting the love it deserves. I mean, it's not my favorite NIN album, but common, it's not even on Spotify? Is it Columbia's fault? Can't anybody do something about it? Various Methods of Escape, In Two, Find My Way are among my favorite NIN songs for sure. Nobody can deny how catchy Copy of A is.

[gorast]

I don't think Hesitation Marks is getting the love it deserves. I mean, it's not my favorite NIN album, but common, it's not even on Spotify? Is it Columbia's fault? Can't anybody do something about it? Various Methods of Escape, In Two, Find My Way are among my favorite NIN songs for sure. Nobody can deny how catchy Copy of A is.

Could be a regional thing, because it shows up on Spotify for me. Is Welcome Oblivion missing for you too?

[Indefinite_Cure]

Could be a regional thing, because it shows up on Spotify for me. Is Welcome Oblivion missing for you too?
Welcome Oblivion is available, but you're right, I didn't think of that. I live in Canada so it could be blocked in my country...

[Hyperpower]

A question for anyone who can answer


579

This set of CDs contain that special version of Hurt with Bowie right? Just curious. Ran into it at a Sunrise Records in Brampton..

[TheBang]

This set of CDs contain that special version of Hurt with Bowie right?
Yes. It's the St. Louis soundboard recording from the Dissonance/Outside tour that has been well-circulated and also pressed onto approx 1,328 bootleg editions. If all you're interested in is the audio content, and not the dubious physical collectibility of the bootlegs, you can download the original recording from NIN Live:

https://ninlive.com/shows/1995/19951011.html

[FULLMETAL]

https://store.davidbowie.com/product/X3CDDB062/ouvrez-le-chien-live-dallas-95-cd?cp=99486_108766

Looks like Rhino/Warner Music Hroup is behind the upcoming 1995 live CD/vinyl release from the David Bowie Archive, but its completely removed any hints that NIN & Bowie performed together (guessing rights issues with Interscope/Universal).

Clearly a professional audio recording was made that night (probably starting with Subterraneans but maybe the entire NIN set). Just imagine if the NIN portion mysteriously became available after all these years of mono St.Louis (& no Closer To God).

[EvilGobi]

https://store.davidbowie.com/product/X3CDDB062/ouvrez-le-chien-live-dallas-95-cd?cp=99486_108766

Looks like Rhino/Warner Music Hroup is behind the upcoming 1995 live CD/vinyl release from the David Bowie Archive, but its completely removed any hints that NIN & Bowie performed together (guessing rights issues with Interscope/Universal).

Clearly a professional audio recording was made that night (probably starting with Subterraneans but maybe the entire NIN set). Just imagine if the NIN portion mysteriously became available after all these years of mono St.Louis (& no Closer To God).

Ok, so at this point which NIN show would be the best one to listen to before this to get a full start to finish experience?

[FULLMETAL]

Ok, so at this point which NIN show would be the best one to listen to before this to get a full start to finish experience?

St.Louis: https://ninlive.com/shows/1995/19951011.html

[pigpen]

Trent and Atticus should do a PHM pt2 sounding record. Use a very 80's sound pallet for an EP at least. Would be cool

[diptych]

I hated Y34RZ3R0R3M1X3D (fuck that spelling) when it came out. Now I like it.

[allegate]

Trent and Atticus should do a PHM pt2 sounding record. Use a very 80's sound pallet for an EP at least. Would be cool
in that same vein: is there going to be a definitive PHM, or is that Bicycle release it?

[eachpassingphase]

The NIN groups on Facebook make me insane. I like being a member of them because you can often discover old photos, vintage merch etc. there. However, some of the discussions in those groups are just....yikes.

On a positive note, I somehow never heard of The Discographers podcast until this week. I’ve been binging on the NIN episodes and they are really well done. I have no idea how I missed them. I love NIN-centered podcast episodes. That Song Exploder episode is still one of my favorite things ever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ncrecc]

0:35-0:45 of Keith LeBlanc - Mechanical Movements sounds very similar to the intro of Down In It (more noticeable with Down In It (Shred)'s extended intro), on which he's credited as producer


https://youtu.be/9B046WR591Y?t=35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBy4WUAf7UQ

(I should stress: start at 0:35, intro to MM is completely different from the rest of the song)

LeBlanc (and Adrian Sherwood, at that) has an occasional tendency to reuse beats across projects, and every similarity I could notice was not in the demo version of DII, so this is most likely not a coincidence. I can't determine which album came first, though - Stranger Than Fiction's release is just listed 1989 everywhere, same year as Down In It/Pretty Hate Machine

I began to wonder if there's any other "fingerprints" like this in Pretty Hate Machine, but a quick skim through didn't immediately evoke anything. Just a neat bit of trivia, then.

[piggy]

0:35-0:45 of Keith LeBlanc - Mechanical Movements sounds very similar to the intro of Down In It (more noticeable with Down In It (Shred)'s extended intro), on which he's credited as producer


https://youtu.be/9B046WR591Y?t=35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBy4WUAf7UQ

(I should stress: start at 0:35, intro to MM is completely different from the rest of the song)

LeBlanc (and Adrian Sherwood, at that) has an occasional tendency to reuse beats across projects, and every similarity I could notice was not in the demo version of DII, so this is most likely not a coincidence. I can't determine which album came first, though - Stranger Than Fiction's release is just listed 1989 everywhere, same year as Down In It/Pretty Hate Machine

I began to wonder if there's any other "fingerprints" like this in Pretty Hate Machine, but a quick skim through didn't immediately evoke anything. Just a neat bit of trivia, then.
"Reality" by Tackhead also has some elements that were used on "Down In It":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AtHYxmB0BI

[elevenism]

My Violent Heart gives me goosebumps when I think about these fucking right wing assholes

[piggy]

Yeah, and "God Given" is now making me think of the racism that has bubbled up big time after BLM.

[TinDefacto]

I was today years old when I realized that "Painted Sun in Abstract" and "Complication with an Optimistic Outcome" are basically different versions of the same song.

(And I love both.)

[FULLMETAL]

Saw this ticket from Berlin 1999 (https://old.reddit.com/r/nin/comments/jauzt7/we_partied_like_it_was_1999_nin_gig_in_berlin/) and was surprised how well its it looks compared to my ticket. (https://24-24-1-482.tumblr.com/post/117818473155/fragility-v10-ticket-stubs-this-was-my-first)

It's a shame my tickets from Germany have faded like this. That said, it doesn't tarnish the memory of waiting after the show to get autographs & then trying to navigate the nachtbussen to the hostel. Good times!

[imail724]

Ilan Rubin and Nine Inch Nails were both born the same year.

[poinoup]

I'm thinking it's pretty sweet that my NIN hoodie came today.

[Jon]

LeBlanc (and Adrian Sherwood, at that) has an occasional tendency to reuse beats across projects, and every similarity I could notice was not in the demo version of DII, so this is most likely not a coincidence. I can't determine which album came first, though - Stranger Than Fiction's release is just listed 1989 everywhere, same year as Down In It/Pretty Hate Machine

I know you don't mean the dub version, but Mechanical Movements (Dub) was recorded in 1986. It's a bonus track from his first release:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrplgaIsdzI

[MrLobster]

I know you don't mean the dub version, but Mechanical Movements (Dub) was recorded in 1986. It's a bonus track from his first release

His track "Einstein" (extended and edits versions as well) (1988) certainly has some of the elements used later for NIN production.

[captainbeyond]

The NIN groups on Facebook make me insane. I like being a member of them because you can often discover old photos, vintage merch etc. there. However, some of the discussions in those groups are just....yikes.

i was kicked out of one of those groups for politely correcting someone when they posted an obvious Fragile tour era photo of TR with a caption stating that is was from the Self Destruct tour. Yikes indeed.

[eachpassingphase]

Was just thinking about how much I would love another release similar to Still.

There have been so many songs since then that I would love to hear a stripped down/acoustic/simplified version of.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Erneuert]

I’m still disturbed by the way TR holds his pen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AcGtmJoJOI (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0AcGtmJoJOI)

[Erneuert]

I just realised who Atticus reminds me of - the guy from One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest that appears at 00:49 of this clip, lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faeEnoYcT7w (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=faeEnoYcT7w)

[GavinCollins420]

This is my favourite NIN live video and has been since I first saw it in like 2008. Does anyone have anything that matches the intensity of this? I need more, man. The energy is unreal.

https://youtu.be/inPZFagEnas

Sent from my H8416 using Tapatalk

[ncrecc]

I know you don't mean the dub version, but Mechanical Movements (Dub) was recorded in 1986. It's a bonus track from his first release:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrplgaIsdzI
FYI those bonus tracks weren't actually included until a 2003 CD re-release; another one of the bonus tracks there is "Old Beat Master Mix", which is essentially an instrumental version of side A of an album he released in 1992 (Time Traveller)

[Jon]

FYI those bonus tracks weren't actually included until a 2003 CD re-release; another one of the bonus tracks there is "Old Beat Master Mix", which is essentially an instrumental version of side A of an album he released in 1992 (Time Traveller)

Correct, but they're still Tackhead productions from 1985-1989. Here's this from September 1988:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOuyWgQoFMc

[Max]

Was just thinking about how much I would love another release similar to Still.

There have been so many songs since then that I would love to hear a stripped down/acoustic/simplified version of.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And I would pay good money for tickets to that tour, sit down in seats, everyone shut the hell up and just soak it in.

[vincenzomilione]

does anyone remember/have knowledge of a playlist trent put out on beats music way back when that was a thing? it was a collection of very odd things that (i think) were things he was listening to during the PHM era or something like that.

[m0reta]

does anyone remember/have knowledge of a playlist trent put out on beats music way back when that was a thing? it was a collection of very odd things that (i think) were things he was listening to during the PHM era or something like that.

I saved TR's playlists on scribd here (https://www.scribd.com/document/209931191/Omg-Playlists). You do need an account to see them unfortunately but you can create one without subscribing to any of their plans. But I'll move the content elsewhere if you don't mind waiting. I didn't realize they changed to force the need for an account. Ha!

FYI, some of the playlists were also posted to his spotify account and I think he periodically updates the 'Here in my car' one. But I deleted my account there recently so cannot confirm at this time. :-)

[allegate]

you deleted your spotify account? why, whatever caused you to do that? :eek:

[Endlessly]

does anyone remember/have knowledge of a playlist trent put out on beats music way back when that was a thing? it was a collection of very odd things that (i think) were things he was listening to during the PHM era or something like that.

I took a screencap a while back of "Direct Effect", not sure if that's what you meant:

https://24.media.tumblr.com/bcb5baafb124a14852927195b5d12f0d/tumblr_n0cha4yn0k1qj750fo2_r1_1280.png

Edit to add a transcript, now that I'm not at the end of my lunch break:

DIRECT EFFECT: MUSIC THAT INSPIRED NINE INCH NAILS
18 Songs ∙ 01:08:34
by Trent Reznor

1. A New Career In A New Town - David Bowie
2. Digital - Joy Division
3. You Know What You Are - Ministry
4. Computer Love - Kraftwerk
5. Song To The Siren (Remastered) - This Mortal Coil
6. Weary Blues From Waitin - Hank Williams
7. Little Rough Rhinestone - Soft Cell
8. Push - The Cure
9. Lose My Breath - My Bloody Valentine
10. One Of My Turns (2011 - Remaster) - Pink Floyd
11. Mushroom - Can
12. In Heaven (Lady In The Radiator Song) - David Lynch
13. The Ledge - Fleetwood Mac
14. Born Under Punches (The Heat Goes On) - Talking Heads
15. When You Were Mine - Prince
16. Just Like Honey - The Jesus And Mary Chain
17. Four Enclosed Walls - Public Image Ltd.
18. Up The Hill Backwards - David Bowie

[MrLobster]

I took a screencap a while back of "Direct Effect"

I admit, I did not expect to see Mushroom by Can on there... but I can hear in the rawness of the drums he likes to hear.

[eversonpoe]

I admit, I did not expect to see Mushroom by Can on there... but I can hear in the rawness of the drums he likes to hear.

you know, i always thought the name of that song was "mushroomhead" for some reason. and tago mago is my most listened-to can album.

[Molecule76]

Anyone know what favorite authors or specific books that Reznor was influenced by?

[blassster]

Anyone know what favorite authors or specific books that Reznor was influenced by?Chuck Palahniuk.

The book The Lathe of Heaven had an indirect influence on Bleedthrough.

[Prettybrokenspiral]

I've met Chuck several times, to where he knows me by face when I see him. We always wind up talking about NIN when we meet. He listened to PHM and TDS incessantly during the creation of Fight Club, and told me The Fragile influenced some of the themes in Haunted, and With Teeth was a favorite when he was writing Rant..

During his book tour for Rant, I asked him to personalize my copy by telling me why he liked NIN, to which he wrote "Okay..I like NIN..for the complete lack of sympathy!"

I never asked him what exactly that meant, but it sounds cool as fuck..

[allegate]

he lives around here, I've never bothered figuring it out because I don't know what I'd do in the presence of features that sharp.

[scorpiusdiamond]

https://twitter.com/NoahPasternak/status/1324183771025936384

[Erneuert]

Man, it just occurred to me how eerie it must have been for TR when the ONE line, the only line that Johnny Cash changed for Hurt (“I wear this crown of thorns,”) actually names what Nine Inch Nails was at one point going to be called in the early days. I mean what are the odds of that?

[Endlessly]

Every single time I listen to/watch the version of Sin from AATCHB (which was that first "aha" moment when I fell in love with NIN), I think to myself, fuck, what a perfect song this is. What a perfect performance. It really never gets old.

[blassster]

What if TR proposed to MQ by leaving a USB stick in their bathroom with a jpg of a ring saved on it. Then later when she found out she was pregnant, she did the same thing but with a baby jpg.

[dlb]

Broke the 10k barrier on last.fm with NIN today. I'm pretty sure there are at least two years missing, but wow, I really seem to like that band. Still. :D

[scorpiusdiamond]

Broke the 10k barrier on last.fm with NIN today. I'm pretty sure there are at least two years missing, but wow, I really seem to like that band. Still. :D

Congrats, welcome to the 5 figure club. On 17k myself.

Working on getting my girlfriend into NIN. I got her to listen though my introductory playlist, and I'm slowly working through the discography now, interspersing trivia... super fun.

[Indefinite_Cure]

Congrats, welcome to the 5 figure club. On 17k myself.

Working on getting my girlfriend into NIN. I got her to listen though my introductory playlist, and I'm slowly working through the discography now, interspersing trivia... super fun.
I'm such a NIN nerd, I'm nearing 35k! Been proudly scrobbling since 2007! If that pandemic has had any positive effect on my life, is that I've listened to more music this year then I did in the past 10 years! I'm on pace to have the most scrobbles in 1 year since 2009 when the only time constraints and obligations I had was college, still living at my parent's. I'm such a stats nerd too... How time flies!

[SchwarzerAbt]

Broke the 10k barrier on last.fm with NIN today. I'm pretty sure there are at least two years missing, but wow, I really seem to like that band. Still. :D

Big milestone! I'm at 9,777 NIN scrobbles right now, so it's only a matter of time until I break the 10k barrier as well. Of all bands that I listen to it's the only constant, for 15 years now.

[dlb]

Congrats, welcome to the 5 figure club. On 17k myself.

Working on getting my girlfriend into NIN. I got her to listen though my introductory playlist, and I'm slowly working through the discography now, interspersing trivia... super fun.

Hehe, thanks! Well, Black Rebel Motorcycle Club and Mark Lanegan are 2nd and 3rd, but still a few thousand scrobbles off. There might be times, months, even years where I'm not in the NIN mood, but whenever something's happening in the NIN camp I get sucked right back in. This message board and many great people sure do help getting there. Pretty sure that if all the stuff from the RTIC vault would have counted I'd broken that barrier earlier. Anyways, just a little random fact and a neat reminder why I keep visiting this place on an almost daily basis. :)

[jmtd]

NTAE is so damn strong. I still remember the excitement I felt when I first heard it. I often struggle to think of recommendations to folks who haven’t heard NIN at all, and I might just throw NTAE at them and leave it at that.

Also, “The Idea of You" is underrated. I forgot Grohl drummed on this one!

[bobbie solo]

Also, “The Idea of You" is underrated. I forgot Grohl drummed on this one!

2:08-2:22

[Max]

Ghosts Together reminds me a LOT of Pretty Hate Machine. Are there some of the same synths being used?

[HWB]

NTAE is so damn strong. I still remember the excitement I felt when I first heard it. I often struggle to think of recommendations to folks who haven’t heard NIN at all, and I might just throw NTAE at them and leave it at that.

Also, “The Idea of You" is underrated. I forgot Grohl drummed on this one!
NTAE is my favorite EP from NIN, it's perfect, to me it's some of the heaviest/darkest music Trent has ever done and I will always utterly love it for that, it has this really claustrophobic feeling that gives me feelings of intense paranoia.


2:08-2:22
Another moment I love in that song is how when the first time the chorus pops-up it does not get heavier until it plays for the second time where it goes on longer and gets heavier.

[Disassociative]

Gave The Fragile a full listen for the first time in a little while. I feel lots of things right now, notably tense after the last few songs.

[Erneuert]

Gave The Fragile a full listen for the first time in a little while. I feel lots of things right now, notably tense after the last few songs.

The last minute of Ripe (With Decay) is definitely very tense.

[tony.parente]

https://www.kolectia.com/include/php/image.php/Backstreet%20Boys%20Backstreet%20s%20Back%20Jive%2 0CD%20Netherlands%208447150%201997%20-%2010260.jpg?width=640&height=480&image=10260
So has anyone ever asked Rob why he chose the Backstreet Boys as his main inspiration for the With Teeth art direction?

[buckaroo]

2:08-2:22

I love that breakdown, but it totally needs to be longer. It just sounds like it wants to get noisier. I feel like post The Fragile this happens from time to time. There are moments when it almost feels like the track was edited (e.g. Head Down, In Two, etc.).

[Erneuert]

https://www.kolectia.com/include/php/image.php/Backstreet%20Boys%20Backstreet%20s%20Back%20Jive%2 0CD%20Netherlands%208447150%201997%20-%2010260.jpg?width=640&height=480&image=10260
So has anyone ever asked Rob why he chose the Backstreet Boys as his main inspiration for the With Teeth art direction?

More concerning, why were you looking that CD up?

[blassster]

More concerning, why were you looking that CD up?Backstreet's back, alright?

[kaydraven]

Hey, that first BSB album is pretty great.

[ickyvicky]

Ya'll can't deny you don't pause and lip sync to "Quit Playin' Games with My Heart" when it comes on in the grocery store.

[botley]

Ya'll can't deny you don't pause and lip sync to "Quit Playin' Games with My Heart" when it comes on in the grocery store YMCA shower.
Fixed that for ya

[HWB]

Year Zero may be my favorite album right now, I absolutely love for the ammount of layers it has and how noisy all of them are, I live for the type of shit Trent is doing on Year Zero.

[Magnetic]

Year Zero is one of my favs. Always.

[Erneuert]

Year Zero may be my favorite album right now, I absolutely love for the ammount of layers it has and how noisy all of them are, I live for the type of shit Trent is doing on Year Zero.

I also live for the types of shit Trent is doing.

[Sequenteon]

Are all NIN's digital WAV downloads now 48k/24bit now? I checked nin.com but didn't see the info posted on what the digital download options were for the new releases. If I remember correctly, was the explanation for that: Fincher's team uses 48k/24bit so Trent and Atticus felt they probably didn't need any higher resolution than what Fincher's team needed?

Thanks!

[zecho]

Are all NIN's digital WAV downloads now 48k/24bit now? I checked nin.com but didn't see the info posted on what the digital download options were for the new releases. If I remember correctly, was the explanation for that: Fincher's team uses 48k/24bit so Trent and Atticus felt they probably didn't need any higher resolution than what Fincher's team needed?

Thanks!

Yeah, they're all 24/48. Trent's official word was that 24/48 sounded better than higher resolutions. No real explanation given.

[blassster]

Yeah, they're all 24/48. Trent's official word was that 24/48 sounded better than higher resolutions. No real explanation given.I think, even for the listener, 96 could technically sound worse without the right equipment?

[seasonsinthesky]

All vinyl DE downloads among other examples (Girl With the Dragon Tattoo USB, etc.) are at 96kHz despite almost all of them being recorded lower. With Teeth is the only one I recall offhand that seems to have been recorded at 96.

[Sequenteon]

Yeah, they're all 24/48. Trent's official word was that 24/48 sounded better than higher resolutions. No real explanation given.

Cool! Thanks to everyone who responded.

[scorpiusdiamond]

https://twitter.com/JillKrajewski/status/1334153201264758785

[zecho]

I think, even for the listener, 96 could technically sound worse without the right equipment?

Eh. Back in the day you needed special sound cards to play certain audio, but that hasn't been a problem in literal decades. I can't think of a reason that it would actually sound worse, but I got out of the industry years and years ago, so I'm super rusty on my facts. Maybe I'm forgetting something.


All vinyl DE downloads among other examples (Girl With the Dragon Tattoo USB, etc.) are at 96kHz despite almost all of them being recorded lower. With Teeth is the only one I recall offhand that seems to have been recorded at 96.

This one is interesting. So, technically all of the releases since TSN have been 96kHz despite being recorded at 48. That's because they were still mastered at 96, so the finalized files were also at 96. There are no frequencies above what can be rendered at 48, but the resolution of any effect added during mastering will be at 96.

[Magnetic]

Most of my life Something I can never have, and Hurt haven't really spoken to me. I wasn't bothered by the songs, I just realized that despite being a massive NIN fan, these songs just didn't rip my heart out. (For some reason Another version of the truth was sufficient for that.)

And then in 2019, I was packing things to move back to the US when I had Closure on casually, and Hurt came on, and I felt my heart ripped out when I heard the lyrics, "I will let you down." I guess it took 25 years of shit to pile on in that moment.

And now, almost 1.5 years later...the Still version of SICNH hits way too damn hard.
I guess I had never yet been put to that moment where the hope is lost, and it's never going to happen.

[Erneuert]

Most of my life Something I can never have, and Hurt haven't really spoken to me. I wasn't bothered by the songs, I just realized that despite being a massive NIN fan, these songs just didn't rip my heart out. (For some reason Another version of the truth was sufficient for that.)

And then in 2019, I was packing things to move back to the US when I had Closure on casually, and Hurt came on, and I felt my heart ripped out when I heard the lyrics, "I will let you down." I guess it took 25 years of shit to pile on in that moment.

And now, almost 1.5 years later...the Still version of SICNH hits way too damn hard.
I guess I've never been put to that moment where the hope is lost, and it's never going to happen.

What happens if you listen to Leaving Hope right after that?

[Erneuert]

https://twitter.com/JillKrajewski/status/1334153201264758785

Bad Witch - “FUCK US”

[Magnetic]

What happens if you listen to Leaving Hope right after that?

I like the song, but it doesn't overwhelm me.

[Endlessly]

Bad Witch - “FUCK US”

I was thinking "OH FUCK", myself.

[Max]

Hesitation Marks: Fuck Yes
Not the Actual Events: Fuck No
Add Violence: Fuck {loop: repeat 52}
Bad Witch: Fuck Everything
Ghosts V: Fuck lyrics.
Ghosts VI: Fuck.

[HWB]

https://twitter.com/JillKrajewski/status/1334153201264758785
Pretty Hate Machine - Fuck love
Broken - Fuck YOU
The Downward Spiral - Fuck life
The Fragile - Fuck me
With_Teeth - Fuck solipsism
Year Zero - Fuck the government
Ghosts I-IV - Fuck lyrics
The Slip - Fuck isolation
Hesitation Marks - Fuck depression
Not The Actual Events - Fuck recovery
Add Violence - Fuck reality
Bad Witch - Fuck humanity
Ghosts: Together - Fuck COVID
Ghosts: Locusts - FUCK COVID

[Strohbie]

Ghosts: Locusts - WE'RE FUCKED

All I want for Christmas is an Instrumental copy of "Big Man With A Gun"

[Max]

Pretty Hate Machine - Fuck love
Broken - Fuck YOU
The Downward Spiral - Fuck life
The Fragile - Fuck me
With_Teeth - Fuck solipsism
Year Zero - Fuck the government
Ghosts I-IV - Fuck lyrics
The Slip - Fuck isolation
Hesitation Marks - Fuck depression
Not The Actual Events - Fuck recovery
Add Violence - Fuck reality
Bad Witch - Fuck humanity
Ghosts: Together - Fuck COVID
Ghosts: Locusts - FUCK COVID

This is PERFECT.

[diptych]

After not listening to NIN (except casually during Spotify sessions) much recently, I woke up a few days ago with a melody in my head. Thinking I was clever, I messed around with it on the piano.
Turns out it was In This Twilight.
Soundtrack to my dreams, despite not having heard it for a while. That's good writing.

[Max]

Okay, I am sure that six different people must have brought this up before now, but in case that isn’t true, this just blew my mind:

Meet Your Master is essentially an expansion on the themes of Head Like a Hole and it specifically references it. This is clearly intentional. Genius. Didn’t get this until dozens of listens into it.

Bow down in position
Against the polished steel
This is something different
You'll like the way this feels
No time for asking questions
No time for wondering
We've heard enough from you now
We've heard everything
We're going to play a new game
You'll put on this blindfold
You'll do what we tell you
You'll do as you're told
Used to be the leader
Now comes the time to serve
Maybe we show some mercy
Maybe you get what you deserve

[fillow]

Bow down in position
Against the polished steel
This is something different
You'll like the way this feels
No time for asking questions
No time for wondering
We've heard enough from you now
We've heard everything
We're going to play a new game
You'll put on this blindfold
You'll do what we tell you
You'll do as you're told
Used to be the leader
Now comes the time to serve
Maybe we show some mercy
Maybe you get what you deserve

This is clearly intentional. Genius.

[Callahan]

Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but being random NIN related, figured I’d share it here.

So, I got married last night! And my wife got me a pretty cool gift. She knows how big my fandom on NIN is, but she is also not a fan of all, doesn’t care for it at all! But she managed to find a really cool NIN related gift for me, without it being totally obvious.

There’s this artist, Melissa McCracken, she has Synesthesia, which is a condition where you can _see_ sound as colours, and she paints songs how she’s sees them.

She has one for La Mer
https://shop.bluegalleryonline.com/products/la-mer

I find this absolutely incredible. It’s abstract, but mesmerizing. Here’s how it looks framed

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201213/4bcdfb94852ff6f547df0dfc2a2ea784.jpg


For her not being a NIN fan at all, and knowing nothing about them, she knocked it out of the park with this!

The artist also has one for 1 Ghosts 1 as well.

[Max]

Bow down in position
Against the polished steel
This is something different
You'll like the way this feels
No time for asking questions
No time for wondering
We've heard enough from you now
We've heard everything
We're going to play a new game
You'll put on this blindfold
You'll do what we tell you
You'll do as you're told
Used to be the leader
Now comes the time to serve
Maybe we show some mercy
Maybe you get what you deserve

This is clearly intentional. Genius.

Har har. Seriously, I'm not just picking out random words. It's not just the verbiage that is connected, "bow down... get what you deserve", it is thematically connected. It is talking about those in authority, who feel they are so powerful, being forced to face the consequences for what they have done to others.

It's clearly self-referential. Intentionally so.

[scorpiusdiamond]

Not sure if anyone caught this first time around but Jesus fuck that headline (https://metalinjection.net/av/st-vincent-enlists-dave-grohl-to-help-cover-nine-inch-nails-hey-pig)

[sketchymagpie]

How have I never noticed before that Trent whispers "Fuck it... Fuck it... Fuck it..." a bunch of times in the middle of Wish when it all slows down for a moment?

Or it could be "forget", but "fuck it" feels more on-brand for Broken.

[piggy]

How have I never noticed before that Trent whispers "Fuck it... Fuck it... Fuck it..." a bunch of times in the middle of Wish when it all slows down for a moment?

Or it could be "forget", but "fuck it" feels more on-brand for Broken.
He's actually saying "I want to, but I can't turn back, but I want to"

[Erneuert]

Not sure if anyone caught this first time around but Jesus fuck that headline (https://metalinjection.net/av/st-vincent-enlists-dave-grohl-to-help-cover-nine-inch-nails-hey-pig)

“Hey pig”?

[vincenzomilione]

i have listened to nin for over 10 years and i just now came to the realization that The Day the World Went Away has no drums. heard the song a million (1,000,000) times and never really thought about this aspect until just now.

[bobbie solo]

i have listened to nin for over 10 years and i just now came to the realization that The Day the World Went Away has no drums. heard the song a million (1,000,000) times and never really thought about this aspect until just now.

Which is funny b/c that's one of the first thoughts I had when I first heard in 1999. But maybe being there for the anticipation of that first song from the record before it came out led to deeper analysis.

[vincenzomilione]

Which is funny b/c that's one of the first thoughts I had when I first heard in 1999. But maybe being there for the anticipation of that first song from the record before it came out led to deeper analysis.
i guess i was always so enthralled with the guitars and chants that i never noticed that there were no drums, because the song really doesn't need them. but good point, being a more recent fan by comparison i could see a lack of percussion being a much more noticeable thing.

[botley]

I too had gotten used to hearing "The Day the World Went Away" in my head with drums, perhaps because I was used to various live versions. When they went back to playing the drums-less album version as a quartet in 2014, it was a breath of fresh air. But seeing it played after "Somewhat Damaged" and before "The Frail"/"The Wretched" in 2018 at Radio City was a dream come true.

[BRoswell]

Bringing this over here so as not to clog up the Soul thread:


Even if it is true, it only strengthens the point I was trying to make earlier; we need some harsh, brutal, abrasive new NIN tunes for these dark times.

But at the same time, hasn't Trent made enough songs that speak to what's going on right now? Does anyone see songs like Head Like A Hole as irrelevant to our current situation? Hell, we're pretty much living in Year Zero territory right now. As much as I'm always down for new Nine Inch Nails, the older stuff still resonates in the way that it's supposed to, so I don't necessarily feel an urgent need for Trent & Atticus to hit us with their current perspective on things.

[scorpiusdiamond]

But at the same time, hasn't Trent made enough songs that speak to what's going on right now?

I mean the trilogy of EPs were full of anger, paranoia and doom too, and those were released more recently and with even more contextual weight.

[sonic_discord]

Bringing this over here so as not to clog up the Soul thread:



But at the same time, hasn't Trent made enough songs that speak to what's going on right now? Does anyone see songs like Head Like A Hole as irrelevant to our current situation? Hell, we're pretty much living in Year Zero territory right now. As much as I'm always down for new Nine Inch Nails, the older stuff still resonates in the way that it's supposed to, so I don't necessarily feel an urgent need for Trent & Atticus to hit us with their current perspective on things.

Absolutely. You are NOT wrong about any of that. I just want MOAR!!!!

[Prettybrokenspiral]

595

And yet, it really is something..

[jmtd]

Which is funny b/c that's one of the first thoughts I had when I first heard in 1999. But maybe being there for the anticipation of that first song from the record before it came out led to deeper analysis.

I started listening to the fragile much later, around 2002. It took me years to notice.

[buckaroo]

Trent and Atticus have released some if their best score work this year and a TON of it. I also thoroughly enjoyed Ghosts, but after this year I could really use some standard Nine Inch Nails It doesn’t even have to be new stuff. Some demos, alternate takes, a live release, another deviations... it can’t come soon enough for me. It might be the break for the holiday, but the past few days I have been listening to a lot of the recent score work (especially Soul) and it really hit me hard. Not in an entitled way, but more of just a need to get out the of the rut this year has left us in, even just for a short time.

[Erneuert]

i have listened to nin for over 10 years and i just now came to the realization that The Day the World Went Away has no drums. heard the song a million (1,000,000) times and never really thought about this aspect until just now.

Do you like the live version with the drums?

[scorpiusdiamond]

Was there are any archive of discussion of the 33&1/3rd book on Pretty Hate Machine? My girlfriend got it for me for Christmas and I have thoughts

[Max]

Was there are any archive of discussion of the 33&1/3rd book on Pretty Hate Machine? My girlfriend got it for me for Christmas and I have thoughts
Not sure, but interested in hearing them. I enjoyed the book overall. I thought it was interesting that the book was about the cultural backgrounds of the fans themselves. Some of it I could relate to, some of it I could not.

[TheBang]

Was there are any archive of discussion of the 33&1/3rd book on Pretty Hate Machine? My girlfriend got it for me for Christmas and I have thoughts
thread here

[sketchymagpie]

What about that book that's all about Trent Reznor's alleged past life? [emoji23] Been probably 10 years since I read that but that's, er... one for discussion.

[esomiso]

Random thoughts/Fun fact:

It was love at first sound for me, way back when I was 14. At the time it was a very profound feeling. (Such as everything is when you're a young teen.) But this must have been significant because here I am, still listening, all these years later. I put on my headphones and popped in a blank disc that had been left by my step-brother's cousin. And this man's voice echoed into my ears. Something about the tone of it, the feeling behind it... it just resonated with me.

Have you ever felt that way about an artist's music? Do you ever wonder about the musical connection between taste and personality? Or do you believe there is no connection?
All I know is - for the first time in what seemed like forever, I felt like I heard someone from my tribe call out. And it was comforting to know that I wasn't alone.

[eachpassingphase]

What about that book that's all about Trent Reznor's alleged past life? [emoji23] Been probably 10 years since I read that but that's, er... one for discussion.

My mom bought me that book as a gift thinking it was a biography or something. I hadn't heard of it before, so I started reading it with zero context and was instantly confused.

[versusreality]

....what if Trent's name was called on The Price is Right?

a random thought that popped in my head before that made me laugh.

[blassster]

....what if Trent's name was called on The Price is Right?

a random thought that popped in my head before that made me laugh.He'd constantly yell the long stretched out "EEEEEEERRRRRRAAAAAAAASSSSEEEEEEEEEEEE MMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" through the rest of his segments of the show.

[eversonpoe]

i was gonna look for the thread about songs we want NIN to cover but i got lazy so i'll just say it here:

a NIN cover of "digging in the dirt" by peter gabriel would be fantastic

[opal]

Not sure which song I'd pick (let me think about it), but a Peter Gabriel cover would be very intriguing.

I always wondered what Trent thinks of PG. Apart from the Growing Up remix he's done, I've never seen any other connection or mention, however.

[kaydraven]

I would love for NIN to cover a Cure song. Something like 100 Years or Hanging Garden would be amazing.

[3po1nt0]

endings of survivalism and closer share a similar chord progression/melody

[Krazy]

I would love for NIN to cover a Cure song. Something like 100 Years or Hanging Garden would be amazing.

NIN did, “Everything” from 2013’s Hesitation Marks.

heh

/sarcasm]

[Endlessly]

I would love for NIN to cover a Cure song. Something like 100 Years or Hanging Garden would be amazing.

If they covered anything off of Pornography, I would probably instantly ascend to a higher plane.

[scorpiusdiamond]

Two friends of mine have said they’re getting into NIN now, from either Song Exploder or The Needle Drop’s classic review.

Might just be a personal thing for me but I wonder if it’s indicative of a new wave of appreciation?

[NIN –Downward Spiral Book]

NEW BLOG POST

[WHAT A FANTASTIC DEATH ABYSS!] David Bowie, Nine Inch Nails and the Great Beyond - IN REMEMBRANCE OF DAVID BOWIE ON HIS BIRTHDAY – 8/1/1947 - 10/1/2016 - an examination of NIN, Trent Reznor, The Downward Spiral and 1. Outside #bowie (https://twitter.com/hashtag/bowie?src=hashtag_click) #nineinchnails (https://twitter.com/hashtag/nineinchnails?src=hashtag_click)

https://adamsteiner.uk/2021/01/08/what-a-fantastic-death-abyss-david-bowie-nine-inch-nails-and-the-great-beyond/ (https://adamsteiner.uk/2021/01/08/what-a-fantastic-death-abyss-david-bowie-nine-inch-nails-and-the-great-beyond/)

[kaydraven]

NIN did, “Everything” from 2013’s Hesitation Marks.

heh

/sarcasm]

https://33.media.tumblr.com/46a90937eacd0c9c141498d57f73065c/tumblr_npd0hvs6zK1u2avceo1_400.gif

[Exocet]

Is Things Falling Apart widely regarded as the worst moment in NIN history?

the awful 2000, Fragile remix album, Further down the Spiral was really good, how the hell did it all go so wrong here?

[MrLobster]

Is Things Falling Apart widely regarded as the worst moment in NIN history?

Personally, I quite like it.

[Exocet]

Personally, I quite like it.

cool i dont think many did

[WorzelG]

cool i dont think many did
i could have done without the Starfuckers remixes, but I think this was just a time when it was cool to hate on NIN and music critics are like lemmings and will jump on these bandwagons IMO

[Jazzkokehead]

Ghosts VI and V were among my most listened to albums over the past year.

[allegate]

Is Things Falling Apart widely regarded as the worst moment in NIN history?

the awful 2000, Fragile remix album, Further down the Spiral was really good, how the hell did it all go so wrong here?

you pick that over the Perfect Drug single?

[eversonpoe]

you pick that over the Perfect Drug single?

i love all the perfect drug remixes
i also love TFA (yes, including the starfuckers remixes)

[fillow]

It always amused me: people bitch about Starfuckers remixes, which are all very different from album version and from each other, but have no problem with several very similar Mr Self Destruct versions from FDTS (specifically Part Two, Three and Final)

[Endlessly]

imo TFA could be eight Starfuckers remixes, Metal, and Slipping Away, and I would still forgive it.

[r_z]

It always amused me: people bitch about Starfuckers remixes, which are all very different from album version and from each other, but have no problem with several very similar Mr Self Destruct versions from FDTS (specifically Part Two, Three and Final)
That's likely because there is much more material across FDTS and the singles and EPs from that era, no?

[Magnetic]

In high school I had this friend, best friend I guess. I was the huge NIN fan, and he lived and died at Bowie's alter. I was familiar/ liked Bowie, but I didn't live and breathe it like he did (my fav song being Ashes to Ashes). Of course when NIN toured with Bowie and Outside came out my friend began to see the virtues of NIN, and I introduced him to TDS and PHM. Later on, I was back from college on the weekend, picked my friend up, and we began our 25 min drive from the suburbs to a relatively small south/midwest city where there was a "goth/80s" night at a club we frequented.

I remember the mixtape I had at the time... as we hit the city lights and joined the city junctions, Fashion clicked on. It was one of those young, dumb and iconic moments when you're grooving and singing along and the lights float over the car, and you remember that for an age. I was the uber-goth and my friend was the flamboyant Bowie/ Boy George fan, both of us singing out hearts out. I had the stereo going loud as hell, the windows rolled down...and you felt like royalty for the night.

[Max]

In high school I had this friend, best friend I guess. I was the huge NIN fan, and he lived and died at Bowie's alter. I was familiar/ liked Bowie, but I didn't live and breathe it like he did (my fav song being Ashes to Ashes). Of course when NIN toured with Bowie and Outside came out my friend began to see the virtues of NIN, and I introduced him to TDS and PHM. Later on, I was back from college on the weekend, picked my friend up, and we began our 25 min drive from the suburbs to a relatively small south/midwest city where there was a "goth/80s" night at a club we frequented.

I remember the mixtape I had at the time... as we hit the city lights and joined the city junctions, Fashion clicked on. It was one of those young, dumb and iconic moments when you're grooving and singing along and the lights float over the car, and you remember that for an age. I was the uber-goth and my friend was the flamboyant Bowie/ Boy George fan, both of us singing out hearts out. I had the stereo going loud as hell, the windows rolled down...and you felt like royalty for the night.

that’s a really fun story! You must have been delighted when Trent covered that last night!

[Magnetic]

It was shock & delight. I'm so glad they did something outside the realm of expectation. Seeing Trent grooving out like that completely reminded me of dancing in the car with my friend. :)

[eversonpoe]

It was shock & delight. I'm so glad they did something outside the realm of expectation. Seeing Trent grooving out like that completely reminded me of dancing in the car with my friend. :)

he also looks really hot. i kept forgetting to listen because i was just kind of staring at him haha

[kaydraven]

he also looks really hot. i kept forgetting to listen because i was just kind of staring at him haha

Okay I'm glad someone said because good lord. I agree 100%. I practically lost my mind when I saw screencaps of Fashion.

But Trent grooving out is my favorite part of the performance. It's so much fun!

[tony.parente]

We haven't had a traditional full length record in 8 years. I hope that happens this year.

[sweeterthan]

Okay I'm glad someone said because good lord. I agree 100%. I practically lost my mind when I saw screencaps of Fashion.

But Trent grooving out is my favorite part of the performance. It's so much fun!

he looks happy, like he’s having fun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kaydraven]

he looks happy, like he’s having fun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It looks like he really enjoyed the performance. You love to see it.

[eversonpoe]

somewhat damaged has just been running on a loop in my head today, if that tells you where i'm at right now

[Magnetic]

^^^ I’ve had those days. ~virtual hug in a consent option way.

[snichols]

I personally think the only thing wrong with Things Falling Apart is the absence of Complications of the Flesh.

[TinDefacto]

A few years back, my girlfriend at the time was making fun of these super stretched-out pajama pants of mine and joked that we could both wear them at the same time. So we tried it, and sure enough, we could!

Now all I can think when listening to WITT is, "You and me, wearin' this together now..."

[fillow]

Today I learned NIN did a unique version of Terrible Lie intro on Australian 2009 tour with TR playing keys. They abandoned this intro for NINJA and later tours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twVGsvj5Ohc

There are actually at least a few more songs that changed instrumentation between the legs of Wave Goodbye tour (including The Line Begins to Blur, The Collector, Right Where It Belongs)

[FULLMETAL]

Woah! That’s a cool find! I want to remember Survivalism & Metal from that portion of the tour had similar slow build up intros. I love it when they play with the arrangement

[eversonpoe]

Today I learned NIN did a unique version of Terrible Lie intro on Australian 2009 tour with TR playing keys. They abandoned this intro for NINJA and later tours.

is there a show that contains this version on ninlive ?