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Erneuert
03-12-2020, 06:41 PM
with all the cancellations, i mean, i'd hope they have the time to now.

who would have thought a deadly virus would spread while trump was president putting the entire world in quarantine?

2020: canceled

Detunez
03-13-2020, 12:39 PM
Came across this on Archive.org: https://archive.org/details/Super_Rock_Trent_Reznor_MTV_WOC_1994-10
It is a VHS tape recording of a television station which featured short clips with Reznor spread over the entire video. It also contains a recording of "down in it".

OSPF
03-13-2020, 10:10 PM
Came across this on Archive.org: https://archive.org/details/Super_Rock_Trent_Reznor_MTV_WOC_1994-10
It is a VHS tape recording of a television station which featured short clips with Reznor spread over the entire video. It also contains a recording of "down in it".

Thank you for sharing this! I love it. It's even got commercials.

eversonpoe
03-13-2020, 10:29 PM
Thank you for sharing this! I love it. It's even got commercials.

my wife and i watch 80s & 90s commercials on youtube for fun (usually when we're having drinks) and it's so awesome. 80s commercial vault is the name of the youtube channel. if you're into that sort of thing!

BRoswell
03-15-2020, 12:25 AM
All things considered, we could be worse off right now. We could be dealing with the Red Horse virus.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h6q2bUS58w

ryanj101
03-15-2020, 06:43 PM
Not to make light of the current situation, but Trent sheltering in place/quarantined with 5 kids might make for the angriest NIN album of all time.

katara
03-16-2020, 06:02 PM
I've been diving into some of The Smashing Pumpkins' back catalogue and it is deep indeed. Billy Corgan's approach to releasing music is borderline insanity; everything including the kitchen sink, it seems... and that's *just* for Mellon Collie.
By comparison, what we have for NIN pales. There have been no demos leaked besides some of the early material and the 'definitive' editions are incredibly lacklustre. No bonuses, no alternate takes, nothing. The three demos on The Downward Spiral 2004 reissue are nice, however, I feel like the second disc could have easily been the entire album in demo form.
While I'm not sure I'd want 7-disc editions of each of NIN's albums, I do feel like a ton is being held back. Perhaps it's a nest egg for his kids when he's too old to tour. Trent's curation process has been selective so far, to say the least. He's quite picky about what he wants us to hear. I think that's ultimately a good thing.

neorev
03-17-2020, 03:51 PM
I've been diving into some of The Smashing Pumpkins' back catalogue and it is deep indeed. Billy Corgan's approach to releasing music is borderline insanity; everything including the kitchen sink, it seems... and that's *just* for Mellon Collie.
By comparison, what we have for NIN pales. There have been no demos leaked besides some of the early material and the 'definitive' editions are incredibly lacklustre. No bonuses, no alternate takes, nothing. The three demos on The Downward Spiral 2004 reissue are nice, however, I feel like the second disc could have easily been the entire album in demo form.
While I'm not sure I'd want 7-disc editions of each of NIN's albums, I do feel like a ton is being held back. Perhaps it's a nest egg for his kids when he's too old to tour. Trent's curation process has been selective so far, to say the least. He's quite picky about what he wants us to hear. I think that's ultimately a good thing.

The whole Mellon Collie/Aeroplane Flies High era, the amount of material is insane. Plus loads of demos were leaked over the years from this period. The reissue boxsets are like a dozen discs of material. There's still plenty of material not included in these sets, just crazy.

theimage13
03-17-2020, 08:41 PM
I've been diving into some of The Smashing Pumpkins' back catalogue and it is deep indeed. Billy Corgan's approach to releasing music is borderline insanity; everything including the kitchen sink, it seems... and that's *just* for Mellon Collie.
By comparison, what we have for NIN pales. There have been no demos leaked besides some of the early material and the 'definitive' editions are incredibly lacklustre. No bonuses, no alternate takes, nothing. The three demos on The Downward Spiral 2004 reissue are nice, however, I feel like the second disc could have easily been the entire album in demo form.
While I'm not sure I'd want 7-disc editions of each of NIN's albums, I do feel like a ton is being held back. Perhaps it's a nest egg for his kids when he's too old to tour. Trent's curation process has been selective so far, to say the least. He's quite picky about what he wants us to hear. I think that's ultimately a good thing.

Speculation: if he wanted stuff that has remained private to be his kids' nest egg, he'd be releasing the stuff as it was available and investing everything so it'd be worth exponentially more when his kids grow up.

I feel like I've read in the past that he's just very particular about what he produces, and if he's not proud of something, he doesn't publish it. Given that I always felt that way as a visual artist, I would absolutely understand if that was all there is to it. Demos? Songs that were scrapped? If they weren't good enough for the album, they weren't good enough to see the light of day, period. But that's just a wild guess based on my own tendencies and what I vaguely remember reading about the way he works. And if so, good for him. I don't lose any respect for artists who release anything and everything, since they have fans who will appreciate it. But I completely respect artists who don't want to put out anything that they don't want to.

Magnetic
03-17-2020, 09:25 PM
I completely agree with this read. TR has always struck me as a complete control freak; if it doesn't fit in with his narrative at the time, or what he's feeling currently, then it's staying in the vault. I'm ok with that. Not everything is for public consumption.

pcpunk
03-17-2020, 09:47 PM
Yeah, as much as I would love to hear all the unused and alternate material, I think Trent knows what’s good enough for public consumption.

tap3worm
03-18-2020, 04:17 AM
What's the deal with this?
https://i.imgur.com/t4n2WPg.jpg
Someone sent it to me a while back, reverse image turns up no results.

fillow
03-19-2020, 04:38 PM
Am I imagining things?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7F8WLk2iPo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvygKHBTRjg

eversonpoe
03-19-2020, 05:30 PM
Am I imagining things?

yes

Halo Infinity
03-20-2020, 11:32 PM
*I've always appreciated and respected Star Wars since any time between 1992-1994 (As I really can't remember the exact year since I was only ages 6-9. My memories are kind of blurry.), I just haven't been into it for a very long time. This thought also arose from the Star Wars threads.*

As I was just getting back into Star Wars again, while being a Nine Inch Nails fan at the same time, I smiled at the thought of how great and awesome it must've been to be a fan of both during the prequel trilogy should you have thoroughly loved and enjoyed all 3 films, as The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith also came out on the same exact years that The Fragile, Still and With Teeth did.

Those must've been some great years. :)

botley
03-21-2020, 05:34 AM
*I've always appreciated and respected Star Wars since any time between 1992-1994 (As I really can't remember the exact year since I was only ages 6-9. My memories are kind of blurry.), I just haven't been into it for a very long time. This thought also arose from the Star Wars threads.*

As I was just getting back into Star Wars again, while being a Nine Inch Nails fan at the same time, I smiled at the thought of how great and awesome it must've been to be a fan of both during the prequel trilogy should you have thoroughly loved and enjoyed all 3 films, as The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith also came out on the same exact years that The Fragile, Still and With Teeth did.

Those must've been some great years. :)
Yes, in those limited aspects, they were (I was between ages 13 and 18, so in just about every other department for me they were horrendous years). Not much of a Star Wars fan anymore, but those three records are still my favourite things NIN's ever done.

botley
03-21-2020, 05:38 AM
I didn't even dare explore that eighteen-hour tape of OK Computer stuff.
Oh man, you totally should.

WorzelG
03-21-2020, 06:20 AM
As a fan of the original Pumpkins and Elliott Smith, I can honestly say I'm not much of a fan of unreleased material. Because I'm such a huge fan of Nine Inch Nails, I've given the issue a lot of thought. And there's a big part of me that hopes he's got a pact with someone to burn the tapes in his vault upon his death. I kind of like having only deliberate, meticulous releases.

The Pumpkins archive is a goddamned disaster. After wading in a few feet, I just turned right back around and walked out. The demos of "Miss Misery" (an all-time favorite song) and "Pretty Mary Kay" they dredged up after Elliott Smith died seriously tainted the final versions of the songs for me for a while. I couldn't unhear them. I didn't even dare explore that eighteen-hour tape of OK Computer stuff.

That being said...Purest Feeling is amazing in its own right, didn't diminish Pretty Hate Machine, and the tracks that didn't make the record are delightful. Soooo....there's also a huge part of me that would kill to hear the chaff of The Downward Spiral.
Dave Grohl said this in his piece about Trent winning the Oscar

”I think we ended up recording 10 or 12 tracks. But the funny thing was... he would say, "OK, check this out, it's a rough idea, I'm not so sure about it, but take a listen..." and it would be the most incredible piece of music I'd ever heard. Fucking mind-blowing shit. His standards are so much higher than anyone else’s. He does not settle for or accept anything that isn't amazing. “

makes me think the vaults do contain some good stuff, I seem to recall Aaron North saying something similar about music lying around but I might be wrong

fillow
03-21-2020, 07:28 AM
Really?

Yes if you wanna bury yourself in 47 versions of I Promise, 45 of which are identical live performances... Honestly, I think getting the bonus tape from OKNOTOK shoud be enough. The full leak is super redundant.

Erneuert
03-21-2020, 12:54 PM
As a fan of the original Pumpkins and Elliott Smith, I can honestly say I'm not much of a fan of unreleased material. Because I'm such a huge fan of Nine Inch Nails, I've given the issue a lot of thought. And there's a big part of me that hopes he's got a pact with someone to burn the tapes in his vault upon his death. I kind of like having only deliberate, meticulous releases.

The Pumpkins archive is a goddamned disaster. After wading in a few feet, I just turned right back around and walked out. The demos of "Miss Misery" (an all-time favorite song) and "Pretty Mary Kay" they dredged up after Elliott Smith died seriously tainted the final versions of the songs for me for a while. I couldn't unhear them. I didn't even dare explore that eighteen-hour tape of OK Computer stuff.

That being said...Purest Feeling is amazing in its own right, didn't diminish Pretty Hate Machine, and the tracks that didn't make the record are delightful. Soooo....there's also a huge part of me that would kill to hear the chaff of The Downward Spiral.

I hear what you’re saying about demos ruining the songs; it just comes down to the artist, I guess. For example, almost all the rough mixes/demos/leaked unreleased Morrissey songs (and The Smiths) have almost all been mind-blowing. Same for Joy Division and Gary Numan, IMO.

Given Dave Grohl and Aaron North’s comments about TR’s level of perfection, I really don’t think we’d have much to worry about in terms of quality if he does eventually decide to let the floodgates open. He already has with Deviations, and I don’t think anyone was particularly disappointed with that. I mean, hearing that whispered delivery of the lines from the Heresy demo back in 2004 was damn spine-tingling. Imagine what else there is. I can only imagine the things Mariqueen’s ears have been blessed with hearing!

pcpunk
03-21-2020, 03:27 PM
Quality might not be the only factor, though. Some things may be deemed to personal or communicate things he feels embarrassed by now.

fillow
03-23-2020, 07:07 AM
15 years ago today NIN launched With Teeth tour!

https://cdn.filestackcontent.com/nZPK26FxT8agVSzPSOa3/convert?rotate=exif&format=jpg&quality=90&fit=max&w=1400&h=1400
http://ninlive.com/memorabilia/2005/nin2005-03-23-25litho.jpg

And here's meathead's recollections of the event for your amusement:
https://www.theninhotline.com/meatpers/html/mp050330.htm
(https://www.theninhotline.com/meatpers/html/mp050330.htm)

Boy, I wish old ETS archives were still around to re-read some of the evens that were occurring at the time. (Or some good fiction).

eversonpoe
03-24-2020, 10:41 AM
Just came across these WT era shots: https://www.chapmanbaehler.com/nine-inch-nails
Most of them were in magazines or floating around the web at the time, but there's a few I'd never seen before.

not gonna lie, i had my hair cut like that for a while because i wanted to look like hot emo trent ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

sick among the pure
03-26-2020, 03:40 PM
Guessing the Ghosts release is the secret he was going to let loose at the cancelled Watchmen talk for SXSW.

MrLobster
03-26-2020, 11:24 PM
Service Provider: Oh yes Mr. Reznor, we'll be able to handle whatever load your fans give us. Everything will be quick, no one should notice a delay in processing it...

Trent: hahahahahahahahhahahahahh...

sheepdean
03-27-2020, 09:52 AM
Is anyone planning an online listening party for Ghosts I-VI?

thefragile_jake
03-28-2020, 05:21 PM
God damn it, I want some proper companion remix albums ala Further Down the Spiral and Things Falling Apart again. I really miss those.

Albums and various singles around those times also gave us plenty to chew on when it came to outtakes, extended versions and cover songs. Not sure if Trent and company were thinking of doing a studio recorded cover of Joy Divison's "Digital", but it would find a good home on a remix album that could follow whatever they have it store for the next NIN LP.

zeegrizzle
03-28-2020, 06:11 PM
God damn it, I want some proper companion remix albums ala Further Down the Spiral and Things Falling Apart again. I really miss those.

Albums and various singles around those times also gave us plenty to chew on when it came to outtakes, extended versions and cover songs. Not sure if Trent and company were thinking of doing a studio recorded cover of Joy Divison's "Digital", but it would find a good home on a remix album that could follow whatever they have it store for the next NIN LP.

I agree. I believe(d) they still have time to do this with the Trilogy's work. And i'm patiently waiting for that still..... Then again now that I think about it, it seems like that the new Ghosts might have closed up that window of opportunity for any type of new Trilogy Remix album now. Seems more like they have moved on to the next thing I guess...

I was also thinking this time we're in now would be a perfect time to release that Cold And Black And Infinite Live Blu-ray/4K that we all desperately want. Man that would be so awesome right now!

piggy
03-28-2020, 06:25 PM
I feel like the days of NIN remix albums/EPs are over, and we'll continue to just get a random smattering of stuff here and there.
As for a 2018 live Blu-ray, I noticed that in some fan-shot footage from then, I could see someone onstage filming (and not during songs that we already got official videos for.) Not holding my breath that we'll get something, but it would be AMAZEBALLS if we did.

thefragile_jake
03-28-2020, 07:00 PM
I feel like the days of NIN remix albums/EPs are over, and we'll continue to just get a random smattering of stuff here and there.

As much as I'd love to hold out hope—I'm inclined to agree. I guess YearZeroRemixed was the last actual true proper remix album with it's own "Halo" release that wasn't incorrectly marketed as a remix EP (ala the Every Day is Exactly the Same single (https://img.discogs.com/ltaQCecnvELonjgC0gtmmjUGEak=/fit-in/400x353/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():qualit y(90)/discogs-images/R-913952-1172279248.jpeg.jpg)), included within a bonus disc as it was for Hesitation Marks or just a one-off "Seeds" release like Remix 2014 (http://www.nin.wiki/Remix_2014_EP).

I think I'm just a fan of each era having it's own little collection of releases besides just the LP.

StockAvuryah
03-30-2020, 10:40 AM
As much as I'd love to hold out hope—I'm inclined to agree. I guess YearZeroRemixed was the last actual true proper remix album with it's own "Halo" release that wasn't incorrectly marketed as a remix EP (ala the Every Day is Exactly the Same single (https://img.discogs.com/ltaQCecnvELonjgC0gtmmjUGEak=/fit-in/400x353/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():qualit y(90)/discogs-images/R-913952-1172279248.jpeg.jpg)), included within a bonus disc as it was for Hesitation Marks or just a one-off "Seeds" release like Remix 2014 (http://www.nin.wiki/Remix_2014_EP).

I think I'm just a fan of each era having it's own little collection of releases besides just the LP.

Remix albums are tied to the CD era, their occasional birth now is only because the artist or label really wants it, for various reasons. Or the artist wants to get out of a contract as quick as possible (see : MGMT).

buckaroo
03-30-2020, 01:21 PM
Seems like a lot of artists are streaming old concerts for fans due to all the stay at home initiatives. This would be the perfect time to stream / release that TDS era proshot that was shelved for Closure.

zecho
03-30-2020, 08:50 PM
Seems like a lot of artists are streaming old concerts for fans due to all the stay at home initiatives. This would be the perfect time to stream / release that TDS era proshot that was shelved for Closure.

Tension

eversonpoe
03-30-2020, 11:32 PM
Tension

i'd recommend a good massage, but probably not during social distancing.

oh...oh, never mind

;)

sheepdean
03-31-2020, 03:55 PM
Atticus unloading about the stress of the Golden Globes gives me life

Erneuert
03-31-2020, 07:13 PM
I am finding it hard to get over how prophetic Corona Radiata into The Four of Us Are Dying was.

A virus borne of animals, no less, then the former song has a sample at the end featuring hostile cat meowing.

klyrish
03-31-2020, 10:01 PM
I seriously don't get how people hate "Starfuckers, Inc." That song rocks so fucking hard. It's absolutely incredible how much you can hear going on in that song with a good system.

snichols
03-31-2020, 10:05 PM
I used to skip starfuckers inc every time because I thought it didn't fit in the Fragile, but a few years ago it hit me and now I really like it. Was pleasantly surprised when it was played during night 1 of Chicago 2018.

bobbie solo
04-01-2020, 03:08 PM
I seriously don't get how people hate "Starfuckers, Inc." That song rocks so fucking hard. It's absolutely incredible how much you can hear going on in that song with a good system.

the lyrics are goofy & he yells the words "Starfuckers Incorporated" over and over and over. It's hard for people to listen to that alot. You're not wrong about the instrumental...it's fantastic and very layered. I don't hate it, but i don't seek it out. Hearing it live two years ago when I never really turn it on myself was a nice little treat.

Erneuert
04-01-2020, 05:01 PM
It’s strange to think that he left 10 Miles High and/or a bunch of other stuff off The Fragile but had no qualms leaving that song on it.

sheepdean
04-02-2020, 07:54 PM
It’s strange to think that he left 10 Miles High and/or a bunch of other stuff off The Fragile but had no qualms leaving that song on it.
That alone defeats any argument of Trent thinking better on drugs

StockAvuryah
04-04-2020, 09:36 AM
That alone defeats any argument of Trent thinking better on drugs

Though he wasn't on drugs

Erneuert
04-04-2020, 08:34 PM
Akin to Gary Numan recently doing some acoustic versions of songs (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/51-Gary-Numan?p=489254#post489254) for the fans, I, personally, would love to see TR do one for... Zero-Sum.

Shame on us, doomed from the start. May God have mercy on our dirty little hearts.

No better time than now for that one.

Erneuert
04-04-2020, 09:14 PM
Also, during The Warning, why do my ears always hear “you’ve become a violent (virus) that’s keeping (killing) off his host”?

I’ve always found it so hard to hear the actual lyrics.

thefragile_jake
04-04-2020, 11:26 PM
Akin to Gary Numan recently doing some acoustic versions of songs (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/51-Gary-Numan?p=489254#post489254) for the fans, I, personally, would love to see TR do one for... Zero-Sum.

Shame on us, doomed from the start. May God have mercy on our dirty little hearts.

No better time than now for that one.

Unpopular opinion perhaps—but I like the YEARZEROREMIXED version of Zero-Sum more than the original.

Erneuert
04-05-2020, 01:35 AM
Unpopular opinion perhaps—but I like the YEARZEROREMIXED version of Zero-Sum more than the original.

I’d prefer that too, with the cleaner vocals.

nooneimportant
04-06-2020, 02:27 AM
I want a mashup of Letting Go While Holding On and Pinion as an intro for a live show.

zeegrizzle
04-06-2020, 03:49 PM
I want a mashup of Letting Go While Holding On and Pinion as an intro for a live show.

It sounds like they both have the same melody too. If not the same then pretty close. Maybe that mashup could actually work for a live intro.

Erneuert
04-07-2020, 05:46 PM
It ought to be mandatory to use this gif any time TR won’t answer or is reluctant to give away more information about something (credited to TheBang).

https://i.imgur.com/Vv5188p.gif

As a matter of fact, make it an emoticon.

theimage13
04-08-2020, 08:19 AM
For a company that sure seems to be analytics-heavy, Spotify clearly doesn't know anything about me. I had to type all the way to "Burning Brig" before it suggested the right song instead of "Burning Brides". What I get for being too lazy to just go into my own music library I guess.

eversonpoe
04-08-2020, 06:50 PM
For a company that sure seems to be analytics-heavy, Spotify clearly doesn't know anything about me. I had to type all the way to "Burning Brig" before it suggested the right song instead of "Burning Brides". What I get for being too lazy to just go into my own music library I guess.

i have to type my ENTIRE name (everson poe) to get my stuff to show up in the search, despite following my artist page AND having stuff in my library. do they want me to hate myself? i don't get it.

katara
04-08-2020, 06:54 PM
The lyrics for Dear World, are so relevant right now in this current state of things. It's uncanny.

Sarah K
04-09-2020, 11:56 AM
I'm not sure where to post this, as not directly NIN related, but a venue... so if it is more appropriate for somewhere else, please let met know!

Not sure how I got on this list, but I just got an email about an audio-centered webinar series (http://go.audinate.com/lp-events/webinar-series-20), and the first one one Friday, April 19 is about the design and management of the sound system at Royal Albert Hall. Figured there may be some interest in that here.


Designing & Managing the World’s Largest Single-Room Speaker System at the Royal Albert Hall


Join us for a discussion with the manufacturers, solution designers, integrators and the Royal Albert Hall Head of Production. Learn how they addressed these challenges in a recent make-over of acoustics, reinforcement and infrastructure, leading the way for live events in to the 21st century.

​The Royal Albert Hall is perhaps England’s most iconic venue, with a 150-year history of live events across arts, sports and politics. As is often the case with venues built before the advent of electronic sound reinforcement, this venue was known as an acoustically challenging space for audio teams. Join us for a discussion with the manufacturers, solution designers, integrators and the Royal Albert Hall Head of Production. Learn how they addressed these challenges in a recent make-over of acoustics, reinforcement and infrastructure, leading the way for live events in to the 21st century

theimage13
04-09-2020, 02:21 PM
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/royal-albert-hall-acoustics-renovation

If you're more of a reader than a webinar person, this is a great article about the redesign. Even name-drops Nine Inch Nails...maybe you signed up for something or other around the time they played there, Sarah?

sheepdean
04-11-2020, 12:54 PM
So, Hurt is very clearly about a man who kills himself, who was an IV drug user. The album is dedicated to Jeff Ward.

Is Hurt about Jeff?

fillow
04-11-2020, 05:08 PM
If anyone here has any footage from Lollapalooza 2008 NIN show, now would be a great time to share it with me as I'm in early stages of working on a multicam edit of it.
I'm not gonna do as extensive search for raw material as I did for the shows I myself attended, but I thought I'd ask here anyway. Otherwise I'm gonna go with Youtube material.

katara
04-13-2020, 04:51 PM
'Your New Normal' is almost kooky enough to be a track from a TR&AR-scored rendition of The Addams Family.

Indefinite_Cure
04-15-2020, 05:29 PM
Sometimes, I really miss Meathead. His take on albums and all nin-related news was always funny or at least, entertaining.

SchwarzerAbt
04-21-2020, 02:16 PM
I can't remember that there has ever been a release with so little promotion accompanying it. I mean even the scorework had some sort of interview or other press work as far as I remember. And now we have TWO new NIN albums and only the short post on nin.com and nothing else.

It is a little disappointing to me as I'd like to know more about the creation of it and am kind of still waiting for an interview to pop up in the NIN spotting thread.

HWB
04-21-2020, 05:17 PM
I can't remember that zhere has ever been a release with so little promotion accompanying it. I mean even the scorework had some sort of Interview or other press work as far as I remember. And now we have TWO new NIN albums and only the short post on nin.com and nothing else.
I guess, The Slip?

fillow
04-21-2020, 06:35 PM
I guess, The Slip?

Are you joking? The word-of-mouth promotion was fucking massive. Free album! Independent from the big greedy label! And just two months since previous one! And then LITS tour happened.

BRoswell
04-21-2020, 07:22 PM
Personally, I'm okay with Trent & Atticus not talking about it at length. I think they just want people to absorb the music right now. Maybe they'll have more to say about it in the future, but for right now, the music is the statement.

HWB
04-21-2020, 07:54 PM
Are you joking? The word-of-mouth promotion was fucking massive. Free album! Independent from the big greedy label! And just two months since previous one! And the LITS tour happened.
He spoke about promotion itself, they were dropped the same way and advertised (or lack thereof) the same way, it's just that back then free albums were far more unusual especially getting FLACs.

The tour kind of goes againts my argument though, as that entire tour featured The Slip pretty heavily, then again, I can't really blame NIN for not touring right now for obvious reasons, also these records probably won't be appearing live much.

But, other than that, it does remind me of how The Slip was dropped, at least we know what head-space Trent was in when Ghosts V-VI were released, it came with a big statement explaining the intentions behind them, we don't know that much about The Slip, only a little where Trent said it was him "feeling getting older" and "feeling of being outside of himself" and also that it has been written and recorded quickly, but I feel like there is much more going on in that record, wish it got some really in-depth interviews, absolutely love that record.

eversonpoe
04-21-2020, 11:06 PM
I too love The Slip. It might be my favorite second-phase Nine Inch Nails record, though the experience of the Year Zero ARG—considered as an ephemeral component of the record itself—was something I’ll always cherish and dearly wish I could somehow repeat.

i listened to The Slip on vinyl the other day. first time listening to it in a long time, first time on vinyl since back when it was released. it's still fantastic, and lights in the sky is still my least favorite song on it ("corona radiata" and "discipline" are my favs...i know, i know)

Magnetic
04-21-2020, 11:23 PM
I go nuts everytime Discipline comes on my NIN playlist. :D

(YES I KNOW THAT IS HERESY TO MAKE NIN PLAYLISTS.)
(Bite me)

katara
04-22-2020, 03:21 AM
Is there anyone here who DOESN’T occasionally make mixes?
Yes.

MrLobster
04-22-2020, 04:03 AM
Is there anyone here who DOESN’T occasionally make mixes?

I know I do... like here (https://www.mixcloud.com/DerbyBeardo/you-can-try-but-youll-never-understand/) and here (https://www.mixcloud.com/DerbyBeardo/broken-then-reconstructed/).

HWB
04-22-2020, 08:36 AM
I’m one of the few people I know who still regularly listens to albums front to back. All the time; daily basis; &c. But of course I have Nine Inch Nails playlists. Many. Respecting the artist is one thing, but enjoying the music is something too. Is there anyone here who DOESN’T occasionally make mixes?
I have so many NIN playlists but I alwasy just end up listening to the albums themselves most of the time.

tap3worm
04-22-2020, 10:26 AM
Yeah I'm usually going by albums

eversonpoe
04-22-2020, 11:47 AM
I think mine are “1,000,000” and “Head Down”? But “The Four of Us Are Dying” has always been somehow kind of important and requiring of solemnity to me. “Demon Seed” is my least favorite thing on the LP.

Which means it’s now my turn to say, “I know, I know...”


I’m one of the few people I know who still regularly listens to albums front to back. All the time; daily basis; &c. But of course I have Nine Inch Nails playlists. Many. Respecting the artist is one thing, but enjoying the music is something too. Is there anyone here who DOESN’T occasionally make mixes?

the four of us are dying is fantastic, and i love that corona radiata just sort of bleeds into it. i'm not the biggest fan of demon seed, either, but it's a decent ending for a great album. if it ended with lights in the sky i'd be pissed.

i ONLY listen to albums front to back (especially since i usually listen to stuff on vinyl; but even when i'm streaming, that's just how i like to listen) but i also make mixes all the time. that said, the only time i make a single-artist mix is when i'm trying to get a friend into that artist, which is always fun.

kaydraven
04-22-2020, 05:40 PM
I've been on a huge NIN kick for the past month or so and I swear I listen to Discipline and Every Day Is Exactly the Same once or twice a day. The former song is just a banger and the latter is pretty much how I feel these days.

theimage13
04-23-2020, 10:48 AM
Burning Bright transitions into Ringfinger surprisingly well.

Archive_Reports
04-23-2020, 10:50 AM
Burning Bright transitions into Ringfinger surprisingly well.

Love happening upon that type of stuff.

HWB
04-23-2020, 12:09 PM
Burning Bright transitions into Ringfinger surprisingly well.
I was really surprised how well Burning Bright goes into Less Than, those two songs could not be different from one another, but it works. It is just another proof how well these EPs work together.

I've been on a huge NIN kick for the past month or so and I swear I listen to Discipline and Every Day Is Exactly the Same once or twice a day. The former song is just a banger and the latter is pretty much how I feel these days.
Every time I am blown away how impactful Discipline's production is really punchy and impactful.

eversonpoe
04-23-2020, 12:45 PM
I was really surprised how well Burning Bright goes into Less Than, those two songs could not be different from one another, but it works. It is just another proof how well these EPs work together.

i actually like listening to add violence first, and then NTAE, and then bad witch. i feel like the flow works better. but you have to let the entirety of the background world play out. the total noise at the end of it transitions into branches/bones so well.


Every time I am blown away how impactful Discipline's production is really punchy and impactful.

discipline is the song that "only" wishes it was haha

Microwave Jellyfish
04-23-2020, 06:24 PM
Came Back Haunted is such an underrated jam nowadays. A ton of groovy things going on there, which I'm sure were discussed to death back in the day, but nowadays it's mostly remembered as the "first single", vastly overshadowed by Copy of a, the infamous Everything and the rest of HM, of course.

eversonpoe
04-24-2020, 12:05 AM
Came Back Haunted is such an underrated jam nowadays. A ton of groovy things going on there, which I'm sure were discussed to death back in the day, but nowadays it's mostly remembered as the "first single", vastly overshadowed by Copy of a, the infamous Everything and the rest of HM, of course.

came back haunted is great and one of my fav songs on HM, i also think it's up there for one of the most impactful NIN singles

GibbonBlack
04-24-2020, 05:19 AM
if it ended with lights in the sky i'd be pissed.




Is Lights in the Sky not liked generally?

eversonpoe
04-24-2020, 01:49 PM
Is Lights in the Sky not liked generally?

earlier in the thread i talked about it being my least favorite song on the album (don't think it's bad​ though). i also generally prefer when albums end with a bang rather than a whimper.

r_z
04-24-2020, 03:49 PM
Isn't that what The Slip does with Demon Seed?

eversonpoe
04-24-2020, 04:36 PM
Isn't that what The Slip does with Demon Seed?

yeah, which is why i'm glad it ends that way! earlier in the thread i had said that i would be pissed if the album had ended with LITS, which is what GibbonBlack was responding to when i quoted him.

i do, however, LOVE ripe (with decay) and am glad the fragile ends that way, but it's definitely an exception to my rule.

GibbonBlack
04-24-2020, 07:27 PM
earlier in the thread i talked about it being my least favorite song on the album

It's, without question, my favourite track on that album. By a hell of a lot :rolleyes:

bobbie solo
04-25-2020, 12:58 AM
It's, without question, my favourite track on that album. By a hell of a lot :rolleyes:

would love to hear it live in a room that was somehow 100% guaranteed to not be filled with idiots who are so insecure they can't keep quiet for 4 minutes & 55 seconds.

Erneuert
04-25-2020, 06:10 AM
Sesquipedalism and eversonpoe - I don’t get those sentiments towards Demon Seed. The whole thing, the weird way the lyrics are written (like The New Flesh) and how the artwork for the track goes all berserk with the red lines is just incredible. It’s a sin that it hasn’t been done live.


yeah, which is why i'm glad it ends that way! earlier in the thread i had said that i would be pissed if the album had ended with LITS, which is what @GibbonBlack (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1294) was responding to when i quoted him.

i do, however, LOVE ripe (with decay) and am glad the fragile ends that way, but it's definitely an exception to my rule.

You know a song is good when you don’t even need to hear it and get shivers just thinking about it - and that’s precisely what Ripe (With Decay) does for me, especially the “ahhhhs” at the end and that distorted, fractured guitar.

Like Demon Seed not being done live, it’s also a sin that Ripe (With Decay) was ever even considered to be chopped and just be called Ripe on the vinyl version.

GibbonBlack
04-25-2020, 09:26 AM
I've said this before. But it's so funny it's worth mentioning it again.


I used to think "Decay" was a band. And Ripe was a song that was made with Decay. Like a guest spot.

I think I must have got confused when I saw the track Ripe that didn't have the decay bit.

I'm usually smart

OSPF
04-25-2020, 12:15 PM
I've said this before. But it's so funny it's worth mentioning it again.


I used to think "Decay" was a band. And Ripe was a song that was made with Decay. Like a guest spot.

I think I must have got confused when I saw the track Ripe that didn't have the decay bit.

I'm usually smart

Lol. That's hilarious. When did you eventually figure it out?

GibbonBlack
04-25-2020, 01:03 PM
Lol. That's hilarious. When did you eventually figure it out?

I don't remember exactly :(

Erneuert
04-25-2020, 10:58 PM
hahahahaha

chuckrh
04-26-2020, 04:13 AM
After immersing myself in Bad Seed Teevee all day yesterday, I think I would really like to see what would happen if Trent/Atticus got together with Nick Cave/Warren Ellis. I bet it would be at least interesting!

diptych
04-27-2020, 11:24 AM
Not really a NIN thought, or sort of. I'm rewatching the Jack Dangers set of the Night of Nothing show. It's pretty great. And no, I'm not high or anything. Honest.

kaydraven
04-27-2020, 06:27 PM
I re-listened to Ghosts I-IV today and I can really appreciate how much better Ghosts V and VI are. The former is just too long and drawn out. There are some great tracks, but some don't feel fully fleshed out. Others just aren't that interesting to me. Still not huge on the Ghosts series overall, but there are some great moments on each part.

BRoswell
04-28-2020, 06:37 PM
Came into work today (I do maintenance work), and my co-worker was blasting Year Zero in the gymnasium of the building we're working in. Some of his music choices have been a bit questionable (he played the same Evanescence CD three times in a row during one shift), but this was a very pleasant surprise!

katara
04-29-2020, 03:12 AM
If Trent hadn't put NIN on the back-burner after Fragility, I wonder if Danny and Charlie would have stayed in the band.

I also wonder if the resulting album would've even been good. He may not be with us today if not for that hiatus.

WorzelG
04-29-2020, 11:54 AM
If Trent hadn't put NIN on the back-burner after Fragility, I wonder if Danny and Charlie would have stayed in the band.

I also wonder if the resulting album would've even been good. He may not be with us today if not for that hiatus.
I would imagine so, Charlie Clouser suggested he only stuck around for so long because of the promise of Tapeworm or he’d have gone back to LA with Robin Finck

Endlessly
04-29-2020, 07:41 PM
Splitting off from the Spotting thread:


That album comes out, the band goes into rehearsal mode (in the Bahamas? Am I remembering that right?)

Tha's right, it was the Bahamas - I remember it from Robin's story about the first time he ever encountered a plantain, waiting for it to ripen into the biggest, most wonderful banana he was sure he would ever eat.
Also, timestamps like:
https://66.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ldr7eeTdW11qa8jbeo1_640.jpg

spahn
04-30-2020, 04:12 PM
This was posted over on Reddit by "randompersonx"
Cold and Black and Infinite Tour - (4K Rare Video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxiSb_Q6KNc&feature=emb_logo

otnavuskire
05-02-2020, 08:54 AM
My first NIN concert was 20 years ago today! Dug out my ticket stub, and watching a recording of it on youtube to celebrate. It's shockingly watchable for what looks to be a camcorder recording from 20 years ago!

B_r4wpjJeGN

Erneuert
05-05-2020, 11:19 AM
I wasn’t aware that Rob commented on this until now:

https://www.patreon.com/posts/rob-sheridan-ama-34278427

Q (u/Meryl-D):
Hi Rob!
I'm sorry I don't actually have a question about High Level as I haven't read it yet (I do plan to order it soon, though!)
First, I'd like to see I absolutely love the art you did for the recent The New Regime record!
I have a question about one of the artworks you did for NIN's The Slip, specifically Demon Seed. What does it represent exactly? I like the way it stands out from the other artworks.
A:
Demon Seed was the end of the journey of the red line that moved through the artwork of that record, trying to make sense of the rigid forms, sometimes fighting them, before finally overtaking them. It was Trent's idea to have the line take over Demon Seed so completely/aggressively. It tied in to the meaning behind the music, which isn't my place to discuss as TR tends to keep that stuff close to his chest.
piggy
maybe add to the ninwiki article for The Slip and/or Demon Seed?

paul_guyet
05-07-2020, 01:59 PM
Is it just me, or does the guy dancing around at the start of this look like a young TR (the face, not the hair)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MzIbWbMFi0

katara
05-07-2020, 02:35 PM
Is it just me, or does the guy dancing around at the start of this look like a young TR (the face, not the hair)?
Not really. The nose is similar.

Only thing I can say about it is that the music doesn't fit the game. Too much Fallout, not enough Genitorturers.

I feel the same way watching this trailer as when that Doom Eternal rap trailer was released.

spahn
05-07-2020, 08:45 PM
Does anyone have an exact date as to when the Natural Born Killers 12" soundtrack was released in the US, specially the 2016 OST Pressing.

FULLMETAL
05-07-2020, 10:03 PM
This (https://www.superdeluxeedition.com/tag/trent-reznor/) is one of my goto music release sites & they don't list a 2016 release for NBK, just the 2014 (they do have Lost Hightway from 2016).

MrLobster
05-08-2020, 01:33 AM
Does anyone have an exact date as to when the Natural Born Killers 12" soundtrack was released in the US, specially the 2016 OST Pressing.

Discogs doesn't list a 2016 release, so I'm not sure what you're referring to. I have the 2015 reissue, but I picked it up in 2016 (May) and can only offer "some time in the last 6 months of 2015 or first 5 months of 2016" as a release, sorry.

katara
05-08-2020, 04:32 PM
Would have loved to hear a Coil rendition of The Perfect Drug. I love all their NIN remixes. Sucks that they turned it down. I feel their inclusion would have made TPD Versions more memorable.

RIP John and Peter.

eversonpoe
05-08-2020, 05:16 PM
Would have loved to hear a Coil rendition of The Perfect Drug. I love all their NIN remixes. Sucks that they turned it down. I feel their inclusion would have made TPD Versions more memorable.

RIP John and Peter.

i didn't know they were considered for it! that would have been incredible.

i'm still sad we didn't get to hear what peter was working on remix-wise for HTDA. it sounded nuts!

spahn
05-13-2020, 01:29 PM
Discogs doesn't list a 2016 release, so I'm not sure what you're referring to. I have the 2015 reissue, but I picked it up in 2016 (May) and can only offer "some time in the last 6 months of 2015 or first 5 months of 2016" as a release, sorry.

I just saw that Amazon has it listed as November 13, 2015 so I guess that would be an accurate release date for it.

spiral94
05-18-2020, 06:57 PM
came up in my itunes shuffle today. was just thinking about it. imo one of his best remimxes. hbd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZnO54HHshs

Leviathant
05-19-2020, 03:11 PM
https://youtu.be/wg2v5vjz_H8

Nice work ;)

vincenzomilione
05-26-2020, 06:49 PM
anyone else think the 2020 tour existed to create a hype train for a planned 2021 record? or am i looking for parallels to 2006 (WT era ending with teases for YZ) that aren't there.

katara
05-27-2020, 03:18 AM
anyone else think the 2020 tour existed to create a hype train for a planned 2021 record? or am i looking for parallels to 2006 (WT era ending with teases for YZ) that aren't there.
There will be beating of breasts, grinding of teeth, and rioting in the streets if we don't get at least something in 2022 for Year Zero. 2021 be damned.

elevenism
06-01-2020, 07:54 AM
There will be beating of breasts, grinding of teeth, and rioting in the streets if we don't get at least something in 2022 for Year Zero. 2021 be damned.

Oh, we're getting something alright. I'm afraid Trent might have inadvertently actually predicted the end of the us.

elevenism
06-01-2020, 07:59 AM
Swcondly.

It bums me out that YouTube pariah, manipulative piece of shit, and general pedo vibe dude Onision has NIN posters in his house and wears various NIN shirts in his insane videos.

And sometimes, when he gets real serious, he speaks in a style that could be mistaken for lost NIN lyrics.

After hearing his name all over the place, from No Jumper and the like, I finally took a deep.dive.

And yeah, NIN everywhere, all up in his content. :/

eachpassingphase
06-01-2020, 10:43 AM
Swcondly.

It bums me out that YouTube pariah, manipulative piece of shit, and general pedo vibe dude Onision has NIN posters in his house and wears various NIN shirts in his insane videos.

And sometimes, when he gets real serious, he speaks in a style that could be mistaken for lost NIN lyrics.

After hearing his name all over the place, from No Jumper and the like, I finally took a deep.dive.

And yeah, NIN everywhere, all up in his content. :/

You aren't the only one. I get secondhand embarrassment anytime a chud likes something I like. Like that edgelord that was just on trial for murder who quoted Heresy at the judge/jury or whatever. Fuck you dude, you killed somebody. Don't drag my favorite band into your nonsense.

fillow
06-17-2020, 11:21 AM
Today would've been an anniversary of 2014 Kiev (Ukraine) show, but it was cancelled.
I was planning to hit three shows in a row (Moscow, St Pete and Kiev) but they fucking cancelled all three and I didn't have enough time to plan a trip farther to the west. Long story short, I needed to renew my passport first before applying for schengen visa and there was no time to do both. (Didn't need a visa for these three shows).
I was so fucking mad I nearly didn't listen to NIN at all for almost a year and didn't watch any of 13/14 proshots (to this day I've only seen that Tension show on youtube but none of the rest).

Still, we've got this amazing photo reminder:
https://66.media.tumblr.com/f0a7d19d6d03beb5ba0d705b5efaa9dc/tumblr_mxnn1ryXRv1s726nxo1_1280.jpg

alfonso99
06-21-2020, 11:15 PM
This is the time when NIN should release YZ2, a 2 CD set. CD#1 is what happens if the bad guys win. CD#2 is what happens if the good guys win... my 2 cents

alfonso99
06-22-2020, 03:08 PM
Now, not in 2022?

That's a cool idea, though. I'd be down for it.

The political and social climate is perfect right now, besides we don't know we'll make it to 2022 at the pace we're going...

tony.parente
06-22-2020, 07:17 PM
Wtf I love hesitation marks now

thefragile_jake
06-23-2020, 12:24 AM
I keep thinking about a 2021 tour and I'm really hoping more dates added to what was mentioned for a 2020 tour if that's basically the venues on lock for next year. Also kind of hoping for a summer tour, but who the hell knows how live music is going to go into next year.

eversonpoe
06-23-2020, 02:52 AM
Wtf I love hesitation marks now

counting the days until you make this post about "god break down the door", you dingus*

*i love you, tony <3

HWB
06-23-2020, 04:16 AM
Wtf I love hesitation marks now
All NIN albums will be loved, it just takes almost a decade for people to realize that they're actually great albums!

Tom
06-23-2020, 05:03 AM
counting the days until you make this post about "god break down the door", you dingus*

*i love you, tony <3

Capital G says "Hi!"

tony.parente
06-23-2020, 09:37 AM
counting the days until you make this post about "god break down the door", you dingus*

*i love you, tony <3
Listen, Everything still makes me dry heave ok.

thefragile_jake
06-23-2020, 10:24 AM
Been revisiting Nine Inch Nails live bootlegs again. Every once in awhile, I'll just venture to @ninlive (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1141)'s site and just download a bunch of shows from eras that I saw the band in (2005-2018) and it just makes wish I had seen them more times than I have. Always a monetary and schedule conflict before, but in every era since With Teeth I've been able to see one leg of a major tour. I just love it that as fans we have so people wanting to tape the shows to revisit. Totally different kinds of bands, but I see the appeal for bands like Phish in regards to tape trading and wanting to see countless number of shows to find the perfect set list.

Makes me even more glad that he's wanting to continue the "Cold and Black and Infinite" style of production/venue choice/set list variety. Hoping that come next year, if all is back to normal, I'll be able to add more than just like a St. Louis or Kansas City date to my list of live NIN experiences.


Listen, Everything still makes me dry heave ok.

I put Hesitation Marks on the other day and I get why people crap on Everything—but for what the song goes for, I'm 100% in. It doesn't fit the rest of the album (which is already a bit scattered), but I really love the Dinosaur Jr/Cure vibe it has. Being sandwiched next to Satellite is a bit of whiplash though.

Also, God Break Down the Door is probablyyyyyyy one of my all time favorites now??? I don't know ... anytime it comes on I'm instantly sucked in and anytime Trent ventures into jungle/drum and bass territory, it makes me super happy.

eversonpoe
06-23-2020, 10:57 AM
Capital G says "Hi!"

https://media3.giphy.com/media/l2YWic2vTYDt04ZcA/giphy.gif

thefragile_jake
06-23-2020, 11:32 AM
There's a good chance we'll never see something like The Physical World presale event again given the current state of the world, right?

Max
06-23-2020, 01:05 PM
No, things will eventually return to normal again. I work in healthcare. This is just a period of our lives. Like after 1918-19, eventually things slowly normalized. Wear your mask over your nose, stay away from people outside your household, and you'll find yourself at a concert in a couple years.

eversonpoe
06-23-2020, 02:33 PM
No, things will eventually return to normal again. I work in healthcare. This is just a period of our lives. Like after 1918-19, eventually things slowly normalized. Wear your mask over your nose, stay away from people outside your household, and you'll find yourself at a concert in a couple years.

i can't believe how many people i've seen wearing their masks just over their mouths and not over their noses. like...c'mon, folks.

also, i really hope things get to a better place, but i don't want things to return to "normal" because, as we now have proof, our previous state of "normal" is not really good.

tony.parente
06-23-2020, 04:39 PM
There's a good chance we'll never see something like The Physical World presale event again given the current state of the world, right?
Thank god, I would have loved to have been able to go to the last tour in chicago but couldn't because of that bullshit ass gimmick onsale.

piggy
06-23-2020, 04:52 PM
i can't believe how many people i've seen wearing their masks just over their mouths and not over their noses. like...c'mon, folks.
Same. I also saw a lady in my hometown wearing a crocheted mask. Uhh...

thefragile_jake
06-23-2020, 07:39 PM
Thank god, I would have loved to have been able to go to the last tour in chicago but couldn't because of that bullshit ass gimmick onsale.

Same.

Though if they came to St. Louis next year for a few nights, the only positive thing about a Physical World in our hometown would be getting to hang out with you allllllll morning, bebe. <3

Magnetic
06-23-2020, 09:36 PM
I would be forever happy if I never had to be directed to, or subjected to another cover Hurt again in my life.
I liked the original, I liked the Cash cover....but I am sick to death of it now.

HWB
06-24-2020, 01:52 AM
I would be forever happy if I never had to be directed to, or subjected to another cover Hurt again in my life.
I liked the original, I liked the Cash cover....but I am sick to death of it now.
If i'll ever hear "I wear crown of thorns" one more time in one of these covers I'll lose it

katara
06-24-2020, 02:54 AM
If i'll ever hear "I wear crown of thorns" one more time in one of these covers I'll lose it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKdEYxtH_k4

thefragile_jake
06-24-2020, 11:23 AM
If i'll ever hear "I wear crown of thorns" one more time in one of these covers I'll lose it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvWLcsYBxFY

I'm sure you'll love Sheryl Crow's cover of a cover then.

Tom
06-24-2020, 11:40 AM
If i'll ever hear "I wear crown of thorns" one more time in one of these covers I'll lose it
I think it was a poor substitution - too biblical. I'd have gone with 'crown of bees'.

mfte
06-24-2020, 04:39 PM
I think it was a poor substitution - too biblical. I'd have gone with 'crown of bees'.

OR Dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark they shoot bees at you?

eversonpoe
06-24-2020, 06:09 PM
I think it was a poor substitution - too biblical. I'd have gone with 'crown of bees'.

BEES!?!?


OR Dogs with bees in their mouth and when they bark they shoot bees at you?

my brain immediately tried to jam that in the space and it made me laugh out loud.

i'd go with "crown of butts" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Erneuert
06-24-2020, 07:01 PM
If i'll ever hear "I wear crown of thorns" one more time in one of these covers I'll lose it

My mother used to refer to it as “that crown of thorns song” all the time.

piggy
06-24-2020, 07:26 PM
i'd go with "crown of butts" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Oh, hai, Tina Belcher.

eversonpoe
06-25-2020, 01:50 AM
Oh, hai, Tina Belcher.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/dexVp47FzF8Ot92U3b/giphy.gif

ChipRock
06-25-2020, 06:21 AM
Actually laughed out loud at Crown of Bees. Double dare TR to sing this on the next tour.
I thought I was sick of Hurt altogether. London 02 I skipped it to miss the crowds, but Southbank Centre was the first time I heard it live in person in years and it was immensely powerful. Fortunately I don't hear all these covers...
Oh and also, Everything and Satellite are probably my favourite songs from HM. Very different from each other, but still, they rock.

My own random thought - a little while back (or was it years ago? it's hard to tell) Therapy? released a Greatest Hits set that was a bunch of old singles rerecorded basically live in the studio, and I thought it worked really well. This is what I thought Nine Inch Nails should have done at some point. I love a good live album, but just to have the beefed up live versions of old favourites in a controlled setting - well, I'd listen the hell out of that.

Magnetic
06-25-2020, 07:28 AM
My own random thought - a little while back (or was it years ago? it's hard to tell) Therapy? released a Greatest Hits set that was a bunch of old singles rerecorded basically live in the studio, and I thought it worked really well. This is what I thought Nine Inch Nails should have done at some point. I love a good live album, but just to have the beefed up live versions of old favourites in a controlled setting - well, I'd listen the hell out of that.

I agree with you there. Part of the reason I love Still was the dressed down raw versions of SICNH, the Becoming and the Fragile.

Erneuert
06-25-2020, 10:28 PM
Just realised that TR did all the character’s voices in Quake.

d1stinct
06-26-2020, 09:01 AM
I would love to see a live stream (Twitch stream or w/e) of Trent and Atticus tinkering around with the creation of a new song, not like the whole thing, just to watch some of their process and what not.

ekrekel
06-26-2020, 01:56 PM
I would love to see a live stream (Twitch stream or w/e) of Trent and Atticus tinkering around with the creation of a new song, not like the whole thing, just to watch some of their process and what not.

This would be cool. In a similar vein; I've been too lazy to do it, but I've always wanted to see Ally and Atticus' isolated contributions and variations they bring to the live performance. Alessandro has posted some videos on IG from time to time.

I found this https://youtu.be/MMXEvNUjgCg , but does anyone have one with performance sound?

fillow
06-26-2020, 02:28 PM
^^
Hmm, I've watched this vid before, but didn't really pay attention: on the display at about 7:20 there's a list of songs "the band is capable of playing" and there are a few ones that they didn't play in 2014 (or 2013 for that matter): The Collector, Discipline, Everything (!), Ghosts 8, Ghosts 11, Getting Smaller, The Fragile, Speaking in Tongues (in the second column).
I guess some of these may be just leftover libraries from 2008/2009 tours but who knows.

d1stinct
06-26-2020, 03:11 PM
They did this in 2004. For the most part, it was a shitty webcam in the corner of a studio. Quite choppy. No sound.
I remember seeing Katy B hanging out in there. They were probably working on Jakalope alongside With Teeth.

This would be cool but not if it disrupts/alters their work flow. It'd also spoil the song, unless they played it live first and built it later in the studio.

Another track break-down as they did with The Lovers would be preferable.

How about a 6 hour session, 1 hour break (or whatever they would prefer) and build a song from scratch? Maybe even two four hour sessions split in two days. I think an instrumental would be easiest, since lyrical content I'm assuming might take longer to fit into a song. Maybe even take that session, add it to the next album with included lyrics that weren't part of the stream, so it would sorta be like a new song.

I'm not really big into watching "streamers" play games, although when I'm interested in a game, I'll open a random stream just to take a look at that game. I understand why streaming is quite popular nowadays, if you spend enough time watching said streamer you really get an interesting inside look at their personality - it's kinda like watching Bob Ross do paintings, after a few shows you get a good understanding of his personality.

thefragile_jake
06-27-2020, 01:01 AM
And All That Could Have Been needs to be a live staple.

Bachy
06-27-2020, 10:03 AM
Those who frequent the relationship thread may be familiar with my current situation regarding the break up with my fiancé. I’ve certainly been going through some intense depression which has of course caused me to go heavy back into the NIN library. Lately I’ve noticed Hesitation Marks has been a real perfect fit for my mood of late. “Find My Way” and “Came Back Haunted” are really perfect themes to associate with my move back from Colorado to Illinois.

katara
06-27-2020, 11:13 AM
Three of my Top 20—"And All That Could Have Been," "All the Love in the World," & "The Perfect Drug"—have now been played live with some regularity, but all at shows (or straight up tours—thanks, Trent, for that Physical World idea) to which I could not get a ticket. I still have not listened to recordings because I don't want to even have a preconceived notion before I see it. And now I'm just hoping that someday I might actually have the chance to see it.

Fingers crossed.
They just did an amazing US tour. I am grateful they played over here in the EU, absolutely, but seeing those setlists was honestly a bit of a slap in the face. It was like we were the warm-up audience before they pulled out all the stops.

I don't care about flashy production, I just want to see the songs.

AndItKeepsRepeating
06-27-2020, 05:07 PM
They just did an amazing US tour. I am grateful they played over here in the EU, absolutely, but seeing those setlists was honestly a bit of a slap in the face. It was like we were the warm-up audience before they pulled out all the stops.

I don't care about flashy production, I just want to see the songs.

I hate to even mention it because it sounds like a brag but it’s been almost two years and I still can’t believe I saw them play The Perfect Drug AND Happiness in Slavery at the same show.

Side note, I just happened to watch This One’s on Us Today and forgot how bothered I was by Robin not standing in the middle of the projection during Piggy (Ghosts)

thefragile_jake
06-28-2020, 09:05 PM
I know Trent has mentioned before that both Satellite and Everything were originally supposed to be "new tracks" for an Interscope curated "Greatest Hits" album ... but I wonder why that compilation just never came into fruition? It's not like they'd be "lol, it's cool. keep those tracks for yourself once you join another label"—right? You'd think if they were going to be creating a compilation, they'd just go ahead and release one? Wonder what happened to that.

I think about this a lot because I would've loved to have owned "Deep" in a physical format besides having to own the Tomb Raider soundtrack.

BRoswell
06-28-2020, 10:17 PM
I know Trent has mentioned before that both Satellite and Everything were originally supposed to be "new tracks" for an Interscope curated "Greatest Hits" album ... but I wonder why that compilation just never came into fruition? It's not like they'd be "lol, it's cool. keep those tracks for yourself once you join another label"—right? You'd think if they were going to be creating a compilation, they'd just go ahead and release one? Wonder what happened to that.

I'm guessing Trent never actually handed those tracks over to Interscope, so he was free to do with them as he pleased. Also, my understanding is that Trent wants (or wanted?) to be involved with creating the greatest hits album so that it's not just a randomly thrown together mix of already available material. Greatest hits albums seem kind of antiquated now that everyone can just make their own versions at home, so I'm not surprised that we haven't seen one yet.

thefragile_jake
06-28-2020, 10:31 PM
I'm guessing Trent never actually handed those tracks over to Interscope, so he was free to do with them as he pleased. Also, my understanding is that Trent wants (or wanted?) to be involved with creating the greatest hits album so that it's not just a randomly thrown together mix of already available material. Greatest hits albums seem kind of antiquated now that everyone can just make their own versions at home, so I'm not surprised that we haven't seen one yet.

Totally. Even by 2012/2013 - greatest hits release wouldn’t have been necessary but even more so now in 2020.

piggy
06-28-2020, 10:36 PM
I know Trent has mentioned before that both Satellite and Everything were originally supposed to be "new tracks" for an Interscope curated "Greatest Hits" album ... but I wonder why that compilation just never came into fruition? It's not like they'd be "lol, it's cool. keep those tracks for yourself once you join another label"—right? You'd think if they were going to be creating a compilation, they'd just go ahead and release one? Wonder what happened to that.

I think about this a lot because I would've loved to have owned "Deep" in a physical format besides having to own the Tomb Raider soundtrack.
I've also wondered about why it hasn't happened yet. It would also be an opportunity to compile some music videos onto a DVD as part of a deluxe package. I really thought that they'd jump on it last year for the 30th anniversary of the band.

FULLMETAL
06-29-2020, 11:13 AM
I think about this a lot because I would've loved to have owned "Deep" in a physical format besides having to own the Tomb Raider soundtrack.

Back in the day, this promo CD was sitting in the dollar bin begging to be rescued. I had to oblige.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/tJIAAOSwqCtd7nkv/s-l500.jpg

thefragile_jake
06-29-2020, 11:15 AM
Back in the day, this promo CD was sitting in the dollar bin begging to be rescued. I had to oblige.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/tJIAAOSwqCtd7nkv/s-l500.jpg

I see that on Discogs from time to time! Nice grab.

kaydraven
06-29-2020, 11:45 AM
Sorry to hear you're going through such a rough patch. I actually have a similar experience. Last year, my 12 year relationship came to an end and it was only by listening to NIN during quarantine that I found such a strong connection with the albums, especially PHM and TDS. I saw all my anger, bitterness, self-hatred, and depression reflected in those albums. So, NIN has been a huge comfort during this time.

I hope things start looking up for you soon.

botley
06-29-2020, 02:20 PM
I'm guessing Trent never actually handed those tracks over to Interscope, so he was free to do with them as he pleased. Also, my understanding is that Trent wants (or wanted?) to be involved with creating the greatest hits album so that it's not just a randomly thrown together mix of already available material. Greatest hits albums seem kind of antiquated now that everyone can just make their own versions at home, so I'm not surprised that we haven't seen one yet.

The Definitive Edition reissues must have been a carrot dangled to renegotiate their Interscope contract, and perhaps releasing Deviations 1 got them out of the Greatest-Hits clause... that said, once they've remastered Year Zero, they could do a 1989-2007 complete albums collection with Tom Baker's mastering and put it on streaming sites.

henryeatscereal
07-03-2020, 12:00 AM
Do you think Trent is a Turtles fan?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c9/TMTN3_CoverArt.jpg
I wonder that myself, since i'm also a huge TMNT fan, but i don't think so...

eversonpoe
07-03-2020, 12:28 AM
sorry to spoil the fun :( honestly don't know if you were joking, but the manhattan project was a real thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project#:~:text=The%20Manhattan%20Projec t%20was%20a,the%20United%20Kingdom%20and%20Canada.


The Manhattan Project was a research and development undertaking during World War II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II) that produced the first nuclear weapons (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapon). It was led by the United States with the support of the United Kingdom and Canada.

it is also the name of a movie from the 80s where a teenager builds an atomic bomb for a science fair.

mfte
07-03-2020, 09:54 AM
I know virtually nothing about TMNT

Well, they're humanoid turtles and well versed in the martial arts. They love pizza, and eat in constantly because their boss is the rat from Chuck E Cheese.

thefragile_jake
07-03-2020, 11:37 AM
I was kidding around. I know virtually nothing about TMNT; just came across the game and thought it was amusing enough to share.

Damn good NES game.

Plus, I'm also a TMNT fanatic as well. Cowabunga.

nooneimportant
07-08-2020, 07:00 AM
There should be a NIN show made exclusively for Youtube because there won't be a tour this year.

You can even just have Trent with a Piano by himself really.

Erneuert
07-08-2020, 07:10 AM
There should be a NIN show made exclusively for Youtube because there won't be a tour this year.

You can even just have Trent with a Piano by himself really.

He could always do what Gary Numan is doing later this year with a drive-in concert in cars (seriously).

kaydraven
07-08-2020, 10:29 AM
God no. I'd rather see a livestream performance than a freaking drive-in concert.

thefragile_jake
07-08-2020, 11:39 PM
Considering its unique part in the history of the NIN discography, do you think the live album of And All That Could Have Been would ever get a vinyl pressing or does that seem like a time in Trent's life he's not all that interested in going back to? Creating The Fragile was one thing ... touring for it was another thing all together. It holds a special place in my heart as being the actual new "release" to drop after becoming a super fan about a year and a half later.

We're about three years removed from Trent was asked about Still on vinyl, so who knows with that one ... but I'd welcome an AATCHB pressing in a heartbeat.

Prettybrokenspiral
07-09-2020, 09:11 AM
There should be a NIN show made exclusively for Youtube because there won't be a tour this year.

You can even just have Trent with a Piano by himself really.

I'd be all for this, or something along the lines of the rehearsal performances they filmed for With Teeth and The Slip, but at the same time, I would be fine if this whole situation marked the end of touring for NIN altogether..

Trent and Atticus will both be pushing 60 by the time it's safe to tour again, and I would never expect a nearly-60 year old man with 5 kids to go out and destroy himself night after night the way he's done on past tours. That's not even taking into account the whole safety issue that's now a primary concern. If the 2018 CABAI shows were the last we ever get, that would be an incredible high note to go out on. I didn't think he could match the energy he brought to the 2009 Wave Goodbye shows, but he proved everyone wrong nearly a decade later. I'd be perfectly happy if that was it, as far as touring is concerned..

fillow
07-09-2020, 10:03 AM
^^
I would argue that the only song that qualifies as "Trent destroying himself" is March of the Pigs, and it isn't even played every night anymore. It's not Self Destruct or Fragility era anymore, so he wouldn't be jumping like madman and rolling on the floor even for some of most aggressive songs apart from MOTP (like Mr Self Destruct or HIS). It's Robin who does most of the running on stage anyway. TR is also in much better form comparing to many of his contemporaries like Al or Manson.

What I'm saying is I don't see Trent retiring from performing live anytime soon. Even if he puts this version of the band down let's say 5 years from now, he'll still come back to scratch that touring itch with some quiet or electronic sets / scores/HTDA/whatever. This is what I believe and you can't change my mind.

thefragile_jake
07-09-2020, 10:07 AM
I would argue that the only song that qualifies as "Trent destroying himself" is March of the Pigs, and it isn't even played every night anymore.

And as much of a beloved song as that is, I'm 100% okay if MOTP gets the kind of Closer retirement treatment.

TheBang
07-09-2020, 07:50 PM
Trent and Atticus will both be pushing 60 by the time it's safe to tour again
Right? Let's just push them off to the old-folks home and be done with those geezers. (N.B. Atticus is 52 this year.)

Erneuert
07-10-2020, 05:18 AM
I really want to meet TR someday, look at him and just say “Cocksucking chicken wing. Explain.”

nooneimportant
07-10-2020, 07:22 AM
I'd be all for this, or something along the lines of the rehearsal performances they filmed for With Teeth and The Slip, but at the same time, I would be fine if this whole situation marked the end of touring for NIN altogether..

Trent and Atticus will both be pushing 60 by the time it's safe to tour again, and I would never expect a nearly-60 year old man with 5 kids to go out and destroy himself night after night the way he's done on past tours. That's not even taking into account the whole safety issue that's now a primary concern. If the 2018 CABAI shows were the last we ever get, that would be an incredible high note to go out on. I didn't think he could match the energy he brought to the 2009 Wave Goodbye shows, but he proved everyone wrong nearly a decade later. I'd be perfectly happy if that was it, as far as touring is concerned..

I've seen The Residents perform live twice and they had members who were nearing 70 years old at the time. They still killed it. It doesn't matter what age you are, if you can still go then you can still go.

zecho
07-11-2020, 05:45 PM
I've seen The Residents perform live twice and they had members who were nearing 70 years old at the time. They still killed it. It doesn't matter what age you are, if you can still go then you can still go.

Paul McCartney regularly plays Helter Skelter live and blows the roof off the venue. He turned 78 this year.

HWB
07-13-2020, 03:48 AM
Together may be one of the best ambient albums I have ever heard.

kaydraven
07-13-2020, 11:04 AM
The thing that matters to me when it comes to Trent continuing to tour is that he wants to do it. Though he doesn't perform as insane and intensely as he did back in the 90s, you can still feel and see that passion he has for performing. That's what struck me when I first saw NIN in 2018. Not only does Trent still sound great, you can see how he's just feeling the performance with his little dances and what not. And I'm all for that. The moment it stops being fun or it's too difficult for him to tour, that's when he should stop. As long as he's still enjoying it, bring it on.

HWB
07-14-2020, 02:08 AM
Together may be one of the best ambient albums I have ever heard.
Same for Locusts but for Dark Ambient.

tony.parente
07-15-2020, 12:06 PM
So when Deviations was announced it was in the middle of the vinyl resurgence and physical components and for $80 everyone was really excited because for that price point everyone was itching to see what else was going to be included in the package that Trent wasn't telling us. Ended up being 4 records in cereal box cardboard. It came damaged (shock) and I had to get a new jacket shipped to me. I ended up selling it a week later for $75 (i didn't have a turntable at the time).

Anyways I wanted it again so I bought it sealed on discogs for $55 shipped, it's what it should be priced on the site but i'm really excited to listen to it again.

eversonpoe
07-16-2020, 01:41 AM
So when Deviations was announced it was in the middle of the vinyl resurgence and physical components and for $80 everyone was really excited because for that price point everyone was itching to see what else was going to be included in the package that Trent wasn't telling us. Ended up being 4 records in cereal box cardboard. It came damaged (shock) and I had to get a new jacket shipped to me. I ended up selling it a week later for $75 (i didn't have a turntable at the time).

Anyways I wanted it again so I bought it sealed on discogs for $55 shipped, it's what it should be priced on the site but i'm really excited to listen to it again.

believe me, we were all disappointed in the physical package, but the music honestly made up for it. it's so good.

Erneuert
07-16-2020, 09:30 AM
You know, given how meticulous TR has always been with packaging, why do we think he gave Deviations such shitty packaging treatment?

tony.parente
07-16-2020, 10:33 AM
believe me, we were all disappointed in the physical package, but the music honestly made up for it. it's so good.
I'm happy i'm getting it for what it's worth, i'm not getting ripped off this time and my heart is warm haha

Jon
07-16-2020, 10:46 AM
You know, given how meticulous TR has always been with packaging, why do we think he gave Deviations such shitty packaging treatment?

To keep the price down. You can argue whether or not it was a fair price point to begin with but it was $80 for 4 vinyl and a NIN-themed Cracker Jack box.

tony.parente
07-16-2020, 11:29 AM
To keep the price down. You can argue whether or not it was a fair price point to begin with but it was $80 for 4 vinyl and a NIN-themed Cracker Jack box.
Its even harder to swallow when the bird box 4 vinyl set has the packaging that it has for $80.

imail724
07-16-2020, 09:06 PM
Random nin thought: man that guitar solo in ruiner is groovy

Pyract
07-16-2020, 10:47 PM
Am I remembering correctly that that was yet another moment he played and was like, "Fuck it, something like this, but I'll have someone better do it again later" and then never did? He wanted something Pink Floydish, but not so shitty, and then stuck with his own take?
From NINWiki:


The bridge of this song features a rare guitar solo by Reznor. In the April 1994 issue of Guitar World, he was asked about it in the following section of the interview:


GW: I wanted to ask you about the solo in "Ruiner." How did you get that really nasty, ultra-quantized sound?

REZNOR: Ah yes, the great, Pink Floyd-esque, Seventies-sounding section of the song. That's just a preset on the Zoom. I think I accidentally called up the wrong patch. I'm not a soloist. I was just laughing when I was playing with this ridiculous sound, recording into the computer saying like, "This is so cheesy," you know? I later realized that I basically tried to play a "Comfortably Numb"-type solo with this sound. I played the song for Chris, our drummer, and I was thinking, "He's going to start laughing. It's silly." But he goes, "Man, that guitar section was fucking great."

zecho
07-17-2020, 06:32 PM
From NINWiki:


The bridge of this song features a rare guitar solo by Reznor. In the April 1994 issue of Guitar World, he was asked about it in the following section of the interview:


GW: I wanted to ask you about the solo in "Ruiner." How did you get that really nasty, ultra-quantized sound?

REZNOR: Ah yes, the great, Pink Floyd-esque, Seventies-sounding section of the song. That's just a preset on the Zoom. I think I accidentally called up the wrong patch. I'm not a soloist. I was just laughing when I was playing with this ridiculous sound, recording into the computer saying like, "This is so cheesy," you know? I later realized that I basically tried to play a "Comfortably Numb"-type solo with this sound. I played the song for Chris, our drummer, and I was thinking, "He's going to start laughing. It's silly." But he goes, "Man, that guitar section was fucking great."

My favorite part of that interview:

GW: Is that Adrian doing the thrash power chording on that song?
REZNOR: No, that's me. Ol' Lightning Fingers.

Sarah_Munn
07-20-2020, 03:59 PM
I was today old when I discovered NIN did a live cover of Sex Dwarf. Wish there was a studio version but given I thought there wasn't one at all I'm pretty happy.

TheBang
07-20-2020, 04:32 PM
I was today old when I discovered NIN did a live cover of Sex Dwarf. Wish there was a studio version but given I thought there wasn't one at all I'm pretty happy.
Well, then, did you see the excerpts from the studio version they were working on c.1994? See 20:23 here:

https://vimeo.com/65914235

Sarah_Munn
07-20-2020, 04:42 PM
TheBang I did, just wish it had been formally released. It's such a fun and filthy song a proper NIN cover would have been amazing.

tony.parente
07-21-2020, 05:27 PM
With Teeth is so good man. I hope we get one more straightforward rock record from nin before they call it a day.

fillow
07-23-2020, 11:24 AM
Trent is a really popular name in the last few years for anyone who follows Premier League or European football in general.
Go Reds!

HWB
07-26-2020, 06:42 AM
With Teeth is so good man. I hope we get one more straightforward rock record from nin before they call it a day.
I kinda find it funny we call With_Teeth a "straight-forward" rock album, when you consider how diverse the album actually is. I do kinda get the sentiment, it is the album which is full of punches and moves at a very fast pace, like a bullet, with really aggressive song-writting, but still, when you look at each song. It covered a lot of new grounds for NIN in general where Trent made some of the most minimal songs up to that point to the point some songs were close to being Punk or Garage Rock (Collector, Getting Smaller) amongst other things

botley
07-26-2020, 06:56 AM
Gosh, I love Fixed. That's it. That's the random NIN thought.

botley
07-26-2020, 10:10 AM
I file With Teeth away as the most radio-friendly pop album Trent has ever produced
Rumours is also the most radio-friendly Fleetwood Mac album (and happens to be their best, also).



I always thought it was weird that he described With Teeth as "unfixed" and in opposition to all the radio records of the era since I really feel like nothing else he did before or after has the same...sheen of popular presentability?
Melodic hooks and heavy beats don't cover over the noise and grit on that record.



Anyways, I've just never sat and thought about it from the perspective of new ground covered for Nine Inch Nails and think it would be an interesting argument to hear.
Far as I know, it's the first and only NIN studio record to use real live drums on a majority of tracks that aren't just sample-replaced or cut into chunks. Those are straight up uninterrupted drum performances (and vocal and guitar and synth and bass and piano and percussion performances). Lots of human imperfections in each layer.

eversonpoe
07-27-2020, 02:31 AM
Rumours is also the most radio-friendly Fleetwood Mac album (and happens to be their best, also).


Melodic hooks and heavy beats don't cover over the noise and grit on that record.


Far as I know, it's the first and only NIN studio record to use real live drums on a majority of tracks that aren't just sample-replaced or cut into chunks. Those are straight up uninterrupted drum performances (and vocal and guitar and synth and bass and piano and percussion performances). Lots of human imperfections in each layer.

yes yes yes

also, "the line begins to blur" is incredibly heavy and noisy during the verses, and yet the chorus is so beautiful and contemplative. that's the song that always comes to mind for me (after "all the love in the world") when i think of how different With Teeth sounds from the rest of the NIN catalog.

Magnetic
07-27-2020, 07:49 AM
yes yes yes

also, "the line begins to blur" is incredibly heavy and noisy during the verses, and yet the chorus is so beautiful and contemplative. that's the song that always comes to mind for me (after "all the love in the world") when i think of how different With Teeth sounds from the rest of the NIN catalog.

It's probably my favorite song off that album, and to me that song fits right in with the rest of the NIN catalogue. That juxtaposition of heavy noise/ soft and melodic is common throughout. The best example of this is I do not want this. There are others, but work is beating down my door at the moment.

tony.parente
07-27-2020, 03:25 PM
Speaking of.

Disk 2 side 2 of with teeth is the best record side in the entire NIN discography without question. I will die on this hill.

Tom
07-27-2020, 03:34 PM
Speaking of.

Disk 2 side 2 of with teeth is the best record side in the entire NIN discography without question. I will die on this hill.
It's good, sure, but have you tried side A of Broken?

tony.parente
07-27-2020, 03:39 PM
It's good, sure, but have you tried side A of Broken?
Side A is good but it's not with teeth side 4.

Erneuert
07-27-2020, 04:35 PM
Side A is good but it's not with teeth side 4.

With Teeth side 4 is good but it’s not Broken track 79.576 ms.

Magnetic
07-27-2020, 05:17 PM
Speaking of.

Disk 2 side 2 of with teeth is the best record side in the entire NIN discography without question. I will die on this hill.

It's definitely up there in my top 5.

HWB
07-30-2020, 07:55 AM
Please, go on! Specifically about the new ground covered. I've never considered it in that way.

I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but in my brain I file With Teeth away as the most radio-friendly pop album Trent has ever produced and have just sort of let it sit there. I certainly haven't looked to it for... innovation? Or maybe I'm just very tired right now and not thinking with my whole brain? I always thought it was weird that he described With Teeth as "unfixed" and in opposition to all the radio records of the era since I really feel like nothing else he did before or after has the same...sheen of popular presentability?

Don't get me wrong, I love the album—it's not my favorite thing Nine Inch Nails has done, but it's far from my least favorite. It's got a Morrison Hotel effect on me: only when I look at the songs one at a time do I realize how much I like the world as a whole. Something like Spiral I can look at from a distance and say, "Yeah, absolutely, impressive record." Okay, I clearly am very tired right now. Though that is how I feel, notwithstanding the fact that I'm not at all sure the last paragraph makes sense outside of my head.

The record is certainly diverse, though, in one particular way for me: "The Hand That Feeds" and "Not So Pretty Now" are maybe my least favorite things Nine Inch Nails has ever done, while "All the Love in the World" is in the God-Tier for me, and "Right Where It Belongs" and "Beside You in Time" are close behind. That being said, there's not a song that feels out of place on the LP—even the B-sides. Incredibly consistent production?

Anyways, I've just never sat and thought about it from the perspective of new ground covered for Nine Inch Nails and think it would be an interesting argument to hear.
First off, the subject matter is something that future NIN would heavily focus on, this sort of theme about being stuck in a dream and focus on existentialism is what covers most of With_Teeth and it is pretty much the main focus of The Trilogy, questioning whenever you are in a dream, reality, so on and so forth, a lot of With_Teeth's concepts which were touched upon got expanded in the future mostly in The Trilogy but can also be seen in The Slip, specifically Head Down.

Beside You In Time (the track) also expanded a deeper focus on Ambient, while this was already done in The Fragile this song feels more expansive, something that hints at Ghosts or future Trent's soundtrack work.

The aggressive song-writing is also to keep in mind, songs like The Collector/Getting Smaller (which I mentioned earlier), with their more minimal and Punkier vibe hinted at this side of NIN which gets shown to us again and again, which once again got expanded upon in future (Beginning Of The End, 1,000,000, Branches/Bones, Shit Mirror and perhaps even more). Trent wasn't afraid at this point to have minimal songs, he admitted that a lot of his layering was done out of fear of being too raw and naked with his voice, specifically hinting at "Hurt", compare that to something like Right Where It Belongs, which indeed begins with a filter on Trent's voice but then it opens up, Trent's emotional voice is in the front while gentle drone and piano plays in the background, putting all focus on Trent and his lyrics while in the past Trent would cover up his voice in "Hurt" with distortions and all sorts of layers, now think of songs like "Lights In The Sky", "This Isn't The Place", "Find My Way"..more and more, and you will see Trent embracing the vulnerability of his performance and it all goes back to With_Teeth.

Then you also have the opening "All The Love In The World" which toys with Glitch Pop, little bit hinting at what would eventually become of "How To Destroy Angels"

Also, while With_Teeth is an accessible album, it is still very much so an Industrial Rock album at its core.

And a heavy one. I believe that With_Teeth's accessible singles just give people the wrong idea about majority of the contents of the record;

"You Know What You Are" is in your face Industrial Metal, I don't think anyone can deny this, it's raw and incredibly explosive and noisy.

"The Collector" is a song that doesn't really focus on any melody and it is in an odd time signature of 3/4, it's also really minimal, there is a little drone in the background, there is a big focus on Trent's raw explosive vocal performance here

"Love Is Not Enough" comes in with this really heavy guitar solo and filthy bass, once again it's noisy with the guitar piercing through everything.

Title track "(With Teeth)" is dominated by this Noise Rock guitar with an ugly drone covering the background, the structure of the song is also a little odd, this isn't the first time a NIN song suddenly gets quiet and loud (Mr.Self Destruct), but this is arguably one of the most aggressive dynamics changes ever, it's insane, when the song comes back from its little ballad it's basically a jump-scare, the song forces the listener to turn up the song just to blast their ears off, it's awesome and works.
"Getting Smaller" is a fast Garage Punk song with incredible guitar work and drums of course.

"Sunspots" has a heavy focus on filthy bass which hits hard with a dark guitar, it gets brighter/upbeat little bit more with the introduction of the microwave middle-way through, either way, this song still feels rather heavy to me.

"The Line Begins To Blur" is down-right nasty, an intense wall of noise covering the verses while the chorus is almost heavenly and melodic, there is a big contrast between verses and choruses, this trick of such intense contrast between verses and choruses really got introduced here, where the chorus is some sort of "peaceful" release from the chaos and anxiety before it appears again and re-appears in "Head Down" and "The Lovers"

What"Love Is Not Enough" comes in with this really heavy guitar solo and filthy bass, once again it's noisy with the guitar piercing through everything.

HWB
07-30-2020, 07:59 AM
It's probably my favorite song off that album, and to me that song fits right in with the rest of the NIN catalogue. That juxtaposition of heavy noise/ soft and melodic is common throughout. The best example of this is I do not want this. There are others, but work is beating down my door at the moment.
The difference is that I Do Not Want This constantly kinda builds towards the aggressive chorus, whereas "The Line Begins To Blur" kinda inverts this, where the song rather than becoming heavier and louder gives some breathing space after chaos in the chorus.

botley
07-30-2020, 10:27 AM
"The Collector" is a song that doesn't really focus on any melody and it is in an odd time signature of 3/4, it's also really minimal, there is a little drone in the background, there is a big focus on Trent's raw explosive vocal performance here

Great post! You articulated a lot of lovely things about With Teeth. "The Collector" has interruptions of 4/4 time, as well (especially during the chorus). Such interruptions in the verse recur in a motif of 13 (you can count it as 3/4 + 3/4 + 3/4 + 4/4), which is very similar to the verse meter pattern in "The Becoming" (3/4 + 4/4 + 3/4 + 3/4). Back in the remix.nin.com days, I did a mashup of the two songs that exploited this similarity. Not very danceable, but nevertheless...

I also think TR's piano playing, deploying simple yet memorable hooks over synthesized textures (which is something that goes back to "Something I Can Never Have") is a very refreshing arrangement technique on With Teeth, with the nakedness of the piano standing out particularly amidst the noisy synth elements.

HWB
07-30-2020, 10:53 AM
Great post! You articulated a lot of lovely things about With Teeth. "The Collector" has interruptions of 4/4 time, as well (especially during the chorus). Such interruptions in the verse recur in a motif of 13 (you can count it as 3/4 + 3/4 + 3/4 + 4/4), which is very similar to the verse meter pattern in "The Becoming" (3/4 + 4/4 + 3/4 + 3/4). Back in the remix.nin.com days, I did a mashup of the two songs that exploited this similarity. Not very danceable, but nevertheless...

I also think TR's piano playing, deploying simple yet memorable hooks over synthesized textures (which is something that goes back to "Something I Can Never Have") is a very refreshing arrangement technique on With Teeth, with the nakedness of the piano standing out particularly amidst the noisy synth elements.

I actually really wanted to mention the piano, I think its most entiresting usage is in "You Know What You Are" you have this really agresive, really loud Industrial Metal song and suddenly there is this really sad piano in the angriest part of the song, it adds this level of melancholony and sadness to this otherwise pure assault of a song, it gives it an entirely new feel just from that little piano that appears on there.

The usage of piano throughout With_Teeth is brilliant, I am also in love with that crazy frantic piano which closes off "The Collector".

I really think that sometimes With_Teeth is my favorite album from NIN for so many reasons, my favorite NIN album changes all the time but With_Teeth a lot of the times is on the top for me, mostly due to how naked and carthatic yet angry the entire album is, it feels really powerful yet varnurable at the same time. Brutal yet tender as well.

fillow
07-30-2020, 04:04 PM
There is no 13 in The Collector. It's 6/4 in verses + ending and 4/4 in choruses

botley
07-30-2020, 04:21 PM
There is no 13 in The Collector. It's 6/4 in verses + ending and 4/4 in choruses
Oh God, are we going to do all this again? Count it out for yourself, in the verses you'll get two bars of six and then an extra quarter note before the pattern starts again! They even emphasize the extra thirteenth beat with a heavy floor tom-tom accent on the drums.

Then, just before the chorus, they drop the last extra beat and go into straight 4/4 BUT there is a half-measure (or a bar of 6/4, if you like) when the singing stops.

elevenism
07-30-2020, 06:45 PM
all jokes aside, my favorite "side" of any NIN release, ever, and still, is Broken. I could throw Fixed in there, too: they're sort of companion pieces. (side note: i had a Fixed shirt before Fixed was released, at least in Dallas. it had the Broken "n" in blue, and said Fixed on the back of the shirt,i think. and i just figured it was some sort of clever companion to the broken promo materials.

i got into NIN, because of broken, when it came out, when i was fucking TWELVE.
Then i backtracked to PHM, and then found Fixed.

NIN, for me, was still UTTERLY FUCKING TERRIFYING at this point.

i waited with baited breath for the pre TDS maxi singles, or whatever you call them, like the MOTP one.
TDS finally came out, and, it was similarly disturbing. Is it better (than broken/fixed/phm) musically? is it more complex? is it a more, idk, "focused" artistic statement? i think it is. and, i've finally begrudgingly come to the conclusion that TDS IS the best NIN record, objectively.

BUT, Broken/Fixed will likely ALWAYS be my favorite NIN thing.
And, downward spiral continued the vibe.

yet, i honestly wish to GOD i could build, (well, FINISH building,) a time machine, and temporarily erase most NIN music and press from the minds of some of you youngsters,and take you to a couple shows right after TDS was released: before a fuckton of interviews, before the hype, and before Closer was a radio hit.

You sort of just had to be there, and i'd imagine that those of you who WERE there know what i mean.

chuckrh
07-30-2020, 06:52 PM
If Trent wins an Emmy he will be just a Tony away from the rare EGOT (Emmy Grammy Oscar Tony). To be honest, I don't think I want Trent going the Broadway route. Could be interesting but....

imail724
07-30-2020, 09:58 PM
I have been a fan of this band for over 15 years. Until now I thought I had consumed everything there is relating to NIN and Trent Reznor, but in all those years I never knew that Trent provided the voice of the main character in quake. I knew he did the music, I knew there are those NIN crates in the game, but I never knew his voice is actually in it.

FWIW it doesn't sound anything like him. (https://youtu.be/Jjp7j9ysVU8)

withateetha
07-30-2020, 11:04 PM
Can’t stop thinking about a Reznor produced Lady Gaga track. I want them to collab sooooo fucking bad ��

tap3worm
07-31-2020, 01:48 AM
I have been a fan of this band for over 15 years. Until now I thought I had consumed everything there is relating to NIN and Trent Reznor, but in all those years I never knew that Trent provided the voice of the main character in quake. I knew he did the music, I knew there are those NIN crates in the game, but I never knew his voice is actually in it.

AFAIK He did everything sound-related for it, all SFX.

HWB
07-31-2020, 02:45 AM
I have been a fan of this band for over 15 years. Until now I thought I had consumed everything there is relating to NIN and Trent Reznor, but in all those years I never knew that Trent provided the voice of the main character in quake. I knew he did the music, I knew there are those NIN crates in the game, but I never knew his voice is actually in it.

FWIW it doesn't sound anything like him. (https://youtu.be/Jjp7j9ysVU8)
Huh, did they low-pitch his voice or something? Too deep for 90s Trent..

MrLobster
07-31-2020, 02:54 AM
Huh, did they low-pitch his voice or something? Too deep for 90s Trent..

I hear his Year Zero voice in it.

HWB
07-31-2020, 10:35 AM
all jokes aside, my favorite "side" of any NIN release, ever, and still, is Broken. I could throw Fixed in there, too: they're sort of companion pieces. (side note: i had a Fixed shirt before Fixed was released, at least in Dallas. it had the Broken "n" in blue, and said Fixed on the back of the shirt,i think. and i just figured it was some sort of clever companion to the broken promo materials.

i got into NIN, because of broken, when it came out, when i was fucking TWELVE.
Then i backtracked to PHM, and then found Fixed.

NIN, for me, was still UTTERLY FUCKING TERRIFYING at this point.

i waited with baited breath for the pre TDS maxi singles, or whatever you call them, like the MOTP one.
TDS finally came out, and, it was similarly disturbing. Is it better (than broken/fixed/phm) musically? is it more complex? is it a more, idk, "focused" artistic statement? i think it is. and, i've finally begrudgingly come to the conclusion that TDS IS the best NIN record, objectively.

BUT, Broken/Fixed will likely ALWAYS be my favorite NIN thing.
And, downward spiral continued the vibe.

yet, i honestly wish to GOD i could build, (well, FINISH building,) a time machine, and temporarily erase most NIN music and press from the minds of some of you youngsters,and take you to a couple shows right after TDS was released: before a fuckton of interviews, before the hype, and before Closer was a radio hit.

You sort of just had to be there, and i'd imagine that those of you who WERE there know what i mean.
That reminds me actually, that NIN came back SUPER HARD in 2016, I remember getting really uite freaked out by Not The Actual Events, everything about it made me unneasy (and I loved every moment of it.);

The references to Still on the cover art, the rather crazy lyricism, musically it was definitelly the scariest thing NIN has done in a while, it had an incredibly apocalyptic feel and I'd say some of these songs are some of NIN's heaviest, or amongst the heaviest ones. Then the physical component comes with a terrifying warning which covers you in a substance which we had no idea what it was made out of and the component itself are lyrics from the album, anxiously thrown around. I absolutely love NTAE and it marked the point when NIN started freaking me out again, I absolutely LOVE how much anxiety "The Background World" gave me when I heard it for the first time, I love being absolutely spooked by "I'm Not From This World" and then being haunted by the entirety of Locusts.

Jon
07-31-2020, 12:55 PM
I have been a fan of this band for over 15 years. Until now I thought I had consumed everything there is relating to NIN and Trent Reznor, but in all those years I never knew that Trent provided the voice of the main character in quake. I knew he did the music, I knew there are those NIN crates in the game, but I never knew his voice is actually in it.

FWIW it doesn't sound anything like him. (https://youtu.be/Jjp7j9ysVU8)

That's not quite all of them; there's 31 total:

https://mega.nz/folder/ykJxFISB#yxu6WUedy1UKLStU03-m_A

axhit1
axhit2
death1
death2
death3
death4
death5
drown1
drown2
gasp1
gasp2
gib
h2odeath
h2ojump
inh2o
inlava
land
land2
lburn1
lburn2
pain1
pain2
pain3
pain4
pain5
pain6
plyrjmp8
slimbrn2
teledth1
tornoff2
udeath

ekrekel
07-31-2020, 03:52 PM
I have been a fan of this band for over 15 years. Until now I thought I had consumed everything there is relating to NIN and Trent Reznor, but in all those years I never knew that Trent provided the voice of the main character in quake. I knew he did the music, I knew there are those NIN crates in the game, but I never knew his voice is actually in it.

FWIW it doesn't sound anything like him. (https://youtu.be/Jjp7j9ysVU8)

Curious if the thought crossed their mind to shove any of that or other obscure clips into TGD breakdown or how long it'd take us to figure it out.

r_z
08-01-2020, 07:17 AM
In my mind WT carries a heavy Songs For The Deaf influence for employing Grohl on most of the songs. I wish he'd be featured on more songs though, so that the album would feel even more as one, sonically speaking.

botley
08-01-2020, 07:29 AM
I'd love it 1000 times more if the studio take had the live chorus—"As far as I have gone to know what side I'm on." The horrible grammar of the studio take is one poetic concession I've never been able to give him. Sucks. But it's my field and it's hard for me to ignore.

If there were a studio take of the track with that chorus, it would be in my top tier of Nine Inch Nails songs. In fact, if I had disposable income, I'd pay someone to create this for me—that's how much I want it.
TLBtB doesn't have a grammar problem as I read it. Not nearly as bad as "We're in This Together" does! The phrase "as far as I have gone" could either act as conjoined to the next one, or not, depending if the word "to" is added or not. This gives the line two subtly different meanings:

1. As far as I have gone, I knew what side I'm on. "No matter what has happened up to this point, I knew right from wrong."

2. As far as I have gone to know what side I'm on. "I had to go all this way to figure out what's right and wrong."

HWB
08-01-2020, 08:53 AM
In my mind WT carries a heavy Songs For The Deaf influence for employing Grohl on most of the songs. I wish he'd be featured on more songs though, so that the album would feel even more as one, sonically speaking.
It's a combo of Queens For The Stone Age and Killing Joke, Trent literally spoke about Killing Joke's influence on The Collector, talking about wanting to create the primal soudn which Killing Joke have for that song and perhaps some of the others too.

Dave Grohl drummed on their second debut too, funilly enough, so that is probably the record to look afte when we talk about Killing Joke influences.

botley
08-01-2020, 09:29 AM
Where "The Line Begins to Blur" is concerned, it's not "as far as I have gone" that bothers me at all, it's the next part. "I knew what side I'm on" feels like it switches tense in the middle of the sentence.
It feels that way, but syntactically, it doesn't do that. "I knew" is past tense, and "what side I'm on" can be ambiguous without being present tense.

If I add more words and keep the same meaning maybe it makes more sense:

I knew what I do profess to be true.

HWB
08-01-2020, 09:39 AM
I actually really think that with The Line Begins To Blur it's;
Studo >Live.

The "I DON'T KNOW!" part (second verse) is far more effective in studio than in the Beside You In Time version, not a fan of the vocals that are going on in that part in the Live version.

HWB
08-01-2020, 11:19 AM
I don't feel like it's at all industrial. To a large extent, I don't feel like The Fragile is even a particularly industrial record. It's not a bad thing, per se, that he moved out of the sound. Better than standing still. But, with a few exceptions, I still feel like the sharper edges are filed off of the songs on With Teeth. "You Know What You Are" is heavy, sure, but feels more polished and reined in than something that bombastic would have been in the past—"Gave Up" and "March of the Pigs" come to mind.
To be frank, I think its heaviness is more akin to something off The Fragile, it gives me some "No, You Don't vibes or so, I think in the terms of polish it is samiliar to that.

Detunez
08-01-2020, 12:17 PM
The quake ranger "telefragged" noise always sounds like a person suffering from projectile vomiting. I wonder if Trent actually went that far and puked to record it.

gorast
08-01-2020, 05:06 PM
That reminds me actually, that NIN came back SUPER HARD in 2016, I remember getting really uite freaked out by Not The Actual Events, everything about it made me unneasy (and I loved every moment of it.);

The references to Still on the cover art, the rather crazy lyricism, musically it was definitelly the scariest thing NIN has done in a while, it had an incredibly apocalyptic feel and I'd say some of these songs are some of NIN's heaviest, or amongst the heaviest ones. Then the physical component comes with a terrifying warning which covers you in a substance which we had no idea what it was made out of and the component itself are lyrics from the album, anxiously thrown around. I absolutely love NTAE and it marked the point when NIN started freaking me out again, I absolutely LOVE how much anxiety "The Background World" gave me when I heard it for the first time, I love being absolutely spooked by "I'm Not From This World" and then being haunted by the entirety of Locusts.

The vibe around NTAE was incredible. It really did feel haunted - the minimal website relaunch, the Still artwork, the absolutely horrifying opening to the album that was so different from Hesitation Marks. As frustrating as it was to have to wait the entire year for NIN to come back, when they did, they came back HARD. If we consider the trilogy as one continuous "album cycle," I think this was by far my favorite.

elevenism
08-01-2020, 07:01 PM
That reminds me actually, that NIN came back SUPER HARD in 2016, I remember getting really uite freaked out by Not The Actual Events, everything about it made me unneasy (and I loved every moment of it.);

The references to Still on the cover art, the rather crazy lyricism, musically it was definitelly the scariest thing NIN has done in a while, it had an incredibly apocalyptic feel and I'd say some of these songs are some of NIN's heaviest, or amongst the heaviest ones. Then the physical component comes with a terrifying warning which covers you in a substance which we had no idea what it was made out of and the component itself are lyrics from the album, anxiously thrown around. I absolutely love NTAE and it marked the point when NIN started freaking me out again, I absolutely LOVE how much anxiety "The Background World" gave me when I heard it for the first time, I love being absolutely spooked by "I'm Not From This World" and then being haunted by the entirety of Locusts.

although i dug the shit out of every NIN release (aside from the ghosts things, which i APPRECIATE from an artistic standpoint, but don't LISTEN to very often,)
i'm 100% with you on this. NTAE is similar to broken, in a way, ESPECIALLY the first track. it's one of my favorite NIN tracks, and i've been a fan for 28 years.

i loooooooove WT and i looooooove YZ, etc, but it's just a different vibe. and i'm not saying either sound/vibe is objectively better than the other.
it's just that the NIN i first discovered was like, idk, an awful car crash-the sort of thing that terrified me, but i couldn't look away.
Add Marilyn Manson as openers at my first or second NIN show, when i didn't know who MM was, when i was a freshman or sophomore in HS, and good god, it was unreal.

Again, i know a lot of you guys were there for it. for the record, i'm absolutely not talking down to the folks who missed it. Hell, i'm a big Rush fan, and i'd be utterly infuriated if people looked down for missing the 2112 tour because i wasn't alive yet.
But good GOD, nin was scary early on. Add in the broken movie, which was something we passed around on VHS back then, and, yeah. Jesus. I fucking loved it.

I ALSO love HM, too, though, and i'd honestly like to hear more of THAT style.
I'm amazed that this "little old band" has covered so much territory.
I want them to make hip hop beats for one of these young rappers next. :P

eversonpoe
08-02-2020, 12:59 AM
As for "We're in This Together," I find "down the path we have chose"

all he had to do was change it to "down the path that we chose" or "which we chose" and it would have been fine, without losing any of its poetic sensibility

eversonpoe
08-02-2020, 01:11 AM
What I'm saying is that making the tense an awkward conjugation is deliberately destabilizing and that is the poetic sensibility. "Down the path that we chose" is mere mimesis; "down the path we have chose," in that context, is poesis.

I don't think he was forced into that corner because he couldn't come up with something less clunky, I think he put himself in that lyrical space on purpose. The fact that he emends "Line" live makes me feel like that might have been an oversight.

Regardless, whether or not one enjoys either is up to him/her/them. But I don't think it can be argued that the lyric in "Line" is grammatically sound.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/00/9d/ae009d4f846bc0fa04eb9dd2ce8fc328.gif

you're the scholar so i defer to you :p

r_z
08-02-2020, 02:50 AM
So how did he change the lyrics for the live performance?

Erneuert
08-02-2020, 05:54 AM
I believe it has always been "As far as I have gone to know what side I'm on" live. It was this the times I've seen him perform it in person and online and it's also this on Beside You in Time.

Correct, and it’s always bugged me.

The more I stay in here
The more it's not so clear
The more I stay in here
The more I disappear
As far as I have gone
I knew what side I'm on / (live: To know what side I’m on)
But now I'm not so sure
The line begins to blur

botley
08-02-2020, 10:26 AM
Personally, I think Sesquipedalism is giving The Fragile an easy pass. "I knew what side I'm on" is equally poetic deletion, and makes more sense to me in context than "we have chose" does. "Knew/am" may feel like sloppy writing or a case of tense collision, but to my ear that's just how people talk when they describe feelings of ambiguity in the past tense. "Previously, when it came to this issue, I knew where I stand!" And in the With Teeth context, that's interesting because it speaks to the ambivalence around the narrative exploring notions of clarity — and blurring the delineation of true/false, good/evil, past/present, me/them. I'll buy James' theoretical buttressing on The Fragile's inter/intrapersonal narrative, but only in light of what TR's writing subsequently on With Teeth made much more clear and understandable. If he hadn't wrote "there is no FUCKING YOU, there is ONLY ME", it would be much harder to support your case for a multiple personality interpretation of The Fragile based purely on its own text.

thefragile_jake
08-02-2020, 04:41 PM
Not only is Bad Witch the best in the trilogy, it's probably my personal favorite record of Trent's since With Teeth.

r_z
08-02-2020, 04:59 PM
Killing Joke

Dave Grohl drummed on their second debut too, funilly enough, so that is probably the record to look afte when we talk about Killing Joke influences.
Thanks for the suggestion, I just gave that record a listen and loved the production!

The way the lyrics are sung, however, I can't seem to get into. It's the same with heavy metal for me. It sounds like Lord Krulos of Dino Riders fame stepping to the mic to my ears.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0PZhtgkXyA

fillow
08-02-2020, 05:14 PM
Hey, that cartoon fucking rocks! Watched it when I was a kid.
Killing Joke fucking rocks too.

Endlessly
08-02-2020, 05:52 PM
Ha. Somewhere on this site there's someone whose degree is specifically in English Linguistics who'll come along and be like, "No, actually it's Dative Polypersonal Agreement and it's grammatically sound," and I will have fuckall to say about it.

You rang?

(Hey, if you can understand it, it's a valid enough construction. We're trained towards descriptivism!)

botley
08-02-2020, 06:50 PM
Fair enough, though you'll never sell me on "I knew what side I'm on" in the slightest. And somewhere on the old SLS board, I think there's at least half a record of song-by-song breakdown of The Fragile as a record with only one character I put together in early 2002. You can support the reading without extra-textual sources. I think Trent might have even prompted me to look for it in an interview or something.

I vaaaaaguely remember reading that, actually. allegro were you around for that discussion? If I remember right, you were still going by "Beavette" at that point.

allegro
08-02-2020, 07:51 PM
You rang?

(Hey, if you can understand it, it's a valid enough construction. We're trained towards descriptivism!)

What they said ^^

Prescriptivism and descriptivism.

(There’s no place for grammar Nazis in poetry.)

allegro
08-02-2020, 08:22 PM
I can grok Shakespearean sonnets, so don’t look at ME. :-)

“When as thine eye hath chose the dame,
And stalled the deer that thou shouldst strike,
Let reason rule things worthy blame,
As well as fancy, partial might.
Take counsel of some wiser head,
Neither too young nor yet unwed.“

Substance242
08-03-2020, 08:10 AM
I looked around for "playlist" topics but can't find a good recent one, so here it is... I spent 3 hours yesterday trying to put together NIN "world domination introduction" playlist and came up with this one. Not easy to select, remove, sort... with so much to choose from, and I love each one on this list and can not remove anything. Also make "album" art, balance volume (mp3gain.exe), precisely tag everything, good work! ;-) Running time: 2h40m.

01 Something I Can Never Have.mp3 (Still)
02 Thats What I Get.mp3
03 Happiness in Slavery.mp3
04 Closer.mp3 (All that could have been live)
05 Dead Souls.mp3
06 A Warm Place.mp3
07 The Day The World Went Away.mp3 (CRC Sessions)
08 La Mer.mp3 (Deviations)
09 The Great Below.mp3 (All that could have been live)
10 Metal.mp3
11 Where Is Everybody.mp3
12 And All That Could Have Been.mp3
13 You Know What You Are.mp3
14 Every Day Is Exactly the Same.mp3
15 The Line Begins To Blur.mp3
16 The Beginning of the End.mp3
17 The Great Destroyer.mp3 (Modwheelmod)
18 Another Version Of The Truth.mp3 (Kronos Quartet & Enrique Gonzalez Müller)
19 In This Twilight.mp3
20 Zero-Sum.mp3
21 Lights In The Sky.mp3
22 Corona Radiata.mp3
23 Copy Of A.mp3
24 Find My Way.mp3 (Oneohtrix Point Never Remix)
25 While Im Still Here.mp3
26 Black Noise.mp3
27 Dear World.mp3
28 LESS THAN.mp3
29 NOT ANYMORE.mp3
30 THE BACKGROUND WORLD.mp3
31 Over and Out.mp3
32 I Cant Give Everything Away.mp3

Erneuert
08-03-2020, 09:42 AM
^ Nice list!

While reading it a thought came to my mind regarding La Mer. The initial Apple Music instrumental release had that few second audio glitch in it. Is the Deviations version exactly the same as the Apple Music version, only with the glitch fixed? Or does it differ even more?

pcpunk
08-03-2020, 10:18 AM
It’s the same, glitch fixed.

elevenism
08-04-2020, 06:03 PM
I'm not so sure rock lyrics are meant to be the subject of literary criticism.

I appreciate the discussion, of course, but it sort of feels like a fool's errand.

I'm not saying that there aren't great, powerful, poignant lyrics in rock songs, but, in most cases, if these guys had spent their time earning advanced degrees, their music wouldn't exist.

thefragile_jake
08-08-2020, 11:21 PM
Been a few months since I listened to Ghosts V: Together and decided to revisit tonight while on a rainy night time drive back to my house and I immediately got sucked back into it. Did some laundry and folded clothes to the rest of the album and although I enjoyed it upon it's release earlier this year, I definitely think it's a strong listen. When rhythm section in Still Right Here comes in, I immediately get heavy Fragile vibes. Gonna make some time to put Locusts on tomorrow.

This really, really has me hoping Trent has a Ghosts I-VI box set in mind by year's end.

thefragile_jake
08-09-2020, 12:29 PM
They can release a box set as long as they also release V-VI. On vinyl and CD, please.

Can't really seeing it getting a CD release, but you never know.

zecho
08-10-2020, 05:52 PM
You rang?

(Hey, if you can understand it, it's a valid enough construction. We're trained towards descriptivism!)

Basically, regardless of grammar, as long a we can understand it it's valid enough! Besides, I'm sure there were several drafts of the lyrics written up first, and this is what was choosened.

r_z
08-11-2020, 07:21 AM
And if you're looking for some more official approbation, it's worth remembering that Bob Dylan won the 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature for his rock lyrics. The academy is officially all-in on critical study of rock lyrics. As a species, we have conferred value upon this kind of art and found deep meaning in it.
Since you seem to spend a lot of time thinking about that sort of thing, I'm curious to know what you would consider NIN's finest lyrical moments / songs...? If you'd up for commenting on that, of course. :)

elevenism
08-12-2020, 01:17 AM
I disagree. Art is art. Most artists of whatever medium aren't academics, but that's neither here nor there. Artists are for making art; everyone else gets to discuss it; folks feeling literary get to cut with their critical scalpels. If we reserved critical looks at art for only that art made by esteemed scholars, we would never have insightful discussions of art. I'm not sure what pushing whole genres out of bounds would accomplish, except making literary criticism a whole lot more homogenous and less interesting.

Plays of the Shakespearian variety were "low" art in their day. So was Poe. Watchmen was just a stupid kids' comic book until readers decided to take it seriously. Human beings create meaning and confer value by the act of seeking these things.

And if you're looking for some more official approbation, it's worth remembering that Bob Dylan won the 2016 Nobel Prize for Literature for his rock lyrics. The academy is officially all-in on critical study of rock lyrics. As a species, we have conferred value upon this kind of art and found deep meaning in it.

Great points.
But, should we really judge such art based on GRAMMAR?
i guess that's more what i meant.

Kendrick Lamar won a Pulitzer for Damn, right? Part of the reason he won was for "vernacular authenticity."
I'm not sure he was overly concerned, Kendrick, i mean, about dangling participles, or incongruity of tense.

It seemed like that's what you guys were discussing. specifically: changes in tense within sentences and verses.
I'm CERTAINLY not suggesting that rock lyrics don't deserve literary criticism. I'm just saying that we shouldn't always expect perfect grammar in pop/rock/rap lyrics.

elevenism
08-12-2020, 01:51 AM
I consider grammar and syntax to be tools for anyone working in a medium of words. There are rules, but it's a very fluid system. If you know those rules, you have a better chance of breaking them compellingly, in a way that forces your audience to think about something, if only for an instant, in a way which he/she/they may not have previously considered. Language shapes our brains. We all understand a lot more about "correct" and "incorrect" usage than we realize, at least in our native tongues. So, yeah, I think it's a completely valid investigation and discussion which makes the world a more interesting place.
Jesus Christ.

Again, great points.

Touche

bobbie solo
08-12-2020, 04:55 AM
And let me ask, do you have highlights you can readily point out?

"rain rain go away come again another day"

fucking wordsmithing right there boy. Nas is jealous.

HWB
08-12-2020, 06:30 AM
"rain rain go away come again another day"

fucking wordsmithing right there boy. Nas is jealous.
my
moral

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laying


down