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WorzelG
03-20-2015, 01:19 AM
I think it comes across as about addiction partly, but mostly fame, and the transience of fame, particularly reading the last few iterations of the chorus, but yeah it seems to be about himself not anyone else. But hasn't he always said he prefers people to interpret the lyrics how they see fit?

GlitchyFlame
03-20-2015, 05:06 PM
Going on two years since the release of HM and it seems everyone is releasing new albums, including Soundgarden's Chris Cornell: http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/soundgardens-chris-cornell-completes-recording-new-solo-album/ Everyone was releasing albums in 2013. Hopefully 2015 will be the year that everyone will do it again ;)

sheepdean
03-20-2015, 05:26 PM
Going on two years since the release of HM and it seems everyone is releasing new albums, including Soundgarden's Chris Cornell: http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/soundgardens-chris-cornell-completes-recording-new-solo-album/
More importantly, 2 years since WO

Vertigo
03-20-2015, 06:02 PM
Most importantly, 2 years since the last year with more than one odd digit.

Joy Prevention Hotline
03-20-2015, 06:33 PM
I think it comes across as about addiction partly, but mostly fame, and the transience of fame, particularly reading the last few iterations of the chorus, but yeah it seems to be about himself not anyone else. But hasn't he always said he prefers people to interpret the lyrics how they see fit?
Huh. I never even thought of it being about himself … gives the acid sarcasm an extra edge.

sweeterthan
03-21-2015, 08:49 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yl9_enhs9ro
Seeing '90s Trent with his modern hair cut is strange.

This video is great. Anyone know what year it was recorded? We all know suck is a "pigface cover" but reznor owned that song from beginning and in the end made it his own.

sheepdean
03-21-2015, 09:12 AM
This video is great. Anyone know what year it was recorded? We all know suck is a "pigface cover" but reznor owned that song from beginning and in the end made it his own.
Well he wrote the lyrics, so it's his as much as it is Atkins'
And those shows were 1991, there's a boot of one at ninlive http://ninlive.com/shows/1991/19910425.html

witte
03-21-2015, 10:05 AM
yeah, great, but im glad he left all those losers...#alcohol#drugs

GlitchyFlame
03-21-2015, 08:37 PM
The Genesis P-Orridge mix of While I'm Still Here would be perfect if he/she (Not a knock against trans people, but ever since he tried to turn himself into his wife i'm not even sure if he thinks of himself as an individual anymore) wouldn't have added vocals.


We do not believe in human feeelingggshhh... Nooooooor in human fanshiess... Noooor human needsh... Human vallueesh... Human fears... Or even human hopes... The only purpose oooor belief... Is the path between the miiiind and the braaaaiiinnn.... Miiind.... to the Braaaiiin...

Kind of ruins the mood for me.

botley
03-21-2015, 09:16 PM
I find it's chilling.

GlitchyFlame
03-21-2015, 09:21 PM
It would be great if nin.com returned to being the center of the ninternet instead of being a pretty tumblr page.

sick among the pure
03-21-2015, 11:26 PM
It would be great if nin.com returned to being the center of the ninternet instead of being a pretty tumblr page.

Why put in the time and effort for an awesome website when you can just have an inline frame with your tumblr feed?

Seriously, though, Rob's work on the site for WT and YZ is a big reason I got as excited as I did about the band. Hell, he got his job BASED OFF HIS NIN WEBSITE.
I realize he has a lot more responsibility now, I just wish that when he moved on from being primarily the web design and documentary guy to... whatever you would consider his role now, that someone would have stepped in and kept those roles as active as he did.

Call it ignorance, call it jealousy, some rose-tinted glasses perhaps, what have you, I just miss what we had not too long ago.

Halo Infinity
03-22-2015, 08:49 PM
@kleiner352 (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=4417) - I thought this post would just go here, and well, Still is Halo 17. Don't tell anybody I told you now. ;)

kleiner
03-22-2015, 08:59 PM
@kleiner352 (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=4417) - I thought this post would just go here, and well, Still is Halo 17. Don't tell anybody I told you now. ;)

It's a bonus disc for Halo 17 which, in all but the deluxe version, comes without it. Still did get an individual release eventually but Halo 17 is And All That Could Been, Still was packaged alongside it in the deluxe edition bound in cloth. While it's one of my favorite NIN releases it does not count as its own individual Halo. Still counts as Halo 17b.

Callahan
03-23-2015, 10:32 AM
I really miss the activity on remix.nin.com, and also wish Trent had a little bit more fun with the site, rather than just let it sit and idle. I always loved checking the site and coming across some really good mixes (some which are still on heavy rotation for me), hearing the different interpretations and mixes of songs that bring an interesting life to them. You can still do that today! but the submissions are pretty slow now, and there isn't much emphasis on that site anymore, so coming across really good remixes are pretty slim these days.

How awesome would it be if Trent just randomly logged on, uploaded a track or two of stuff he's been playing around with lately? Doesn't have to be polished, but just something to share with everyone and have a little fun with it.

sheepdean
03-23-2015, 11:18 AM
I really miss the activity on remix.nin.com, and also wish Trent had a little bit more fun with the site, rather than just let it sit and idle. I always loved checking the site and coming across some really good mixes (some which are still on heavy rotation for me), hearing the different interpretations and mixes of songs that bring an interesting life to them. You can still do that today! but the submissions are pretty slow now, and there isn't much emphasis on that site anymore, so coming across really good remixes are pretty slim these days.

How awesome would it be if Trent just randomly logged on, uploaded a track or two of stuff he's been playing around with lately? Doesn't have to be polished, but just something to share with everyone and have a little fun with it.
It's a shame we never got all the albums in instrumental form, it felt like he was going to do that

billpulsipher
03-23-2015, 11:19 AM
I miss Trent fighting with people on twitter and nin.com....the andrea urban fox tirades on twitter *uniformed cunt. a prostitute and a pig* were a thing of beauty

kleiner
03-23-2015, 02:08 PM
I miss Trent fighting with people on twitter and nin.com....the andrea urban fox tirades on twitter *uniformed cunt. a prostitute and a pig* were a thing of beauty

In general I wish Trent was more active online publicly. I get why he isn't, but the Q&A section from the With Teeth era, him solving Meathead's math problems (AND showing his work), him ripping on Wal-Mart and Apple over parental advisory/adult content warnings, the stream of Twitter posts, etc. It's always interesting and very cool whenever any artist engages like that online.

WorzelG
03-23-2015, 02:48 PM
I thought 2007 was a great time to be a fan. Not only did I get 3 shows at Brixton Academy which had a massive variety of setlists, there was Year Zero, the ARG, the photo blogging when they were on tour in summer. Amusing video diary slagging off of European festivals which was very entertaining, also josh freese's antics

billpulsipher
03-23-2015, 02:52 PM
i think the reason he bailed on social media was because he was fighting with people constantly....I wish he put the anger he showed on his social media into his music

howdidislipinto
03-23-2015, 03:10 PM
I miss Trent fighting with people on twitter and nin.com....the andrea urban fox tirades on twitter *uniformed cunt. a prostitute and a pig* were a thing of beauty

Normally I enjoy Trent's rants and sense of humor, but the way you specifically point out/take joy in a woman being called a cunt/prositute/pig is making me rethink said enjoyment. (It's like the "fans who love NIN because of Broken" problem in a nutshell.)

kleiner
03-23-2015, 04:20 PM
I thought 2007 was a great time to be a fan. Not only did I get 3 shows at Brixton Academy which had a massive variety of setlists, there was Year Zero, the ARG, the photo blogging when they were on tour in summer. Amusing video diary slagging off of European festivals which was very entertaining, also josh freese's antics
I mentioned it recently but I really think Performance 2007 may very well be my favorite NIN tour, at least as far as intensity and setlists go. Any venue that had more than one show got an insane amount of variety and just incredible song choices.

telee.kom
03-23-2015, 05:11 PM
Normally I enjoy Trent's rants and sense of humor, but the way you specifically point out/take joy in a woman being called a cunt/prositute/pig is making me rethink said enjoyment. (It's like the "fans who love NIN because of Broken" problem in a nutshell.)

I just imagined the headlines of Gawker and Guardian if it happened today. I'm glad it happened 6 years ago.

Anyway, this is what it was about https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Andreaurbanfox

Also, is this site hilarious or what "Trent Reznor, frontman, vocalist, guitarist, bassist, keyboard, drums, vuvuzela, sitar, didgeridoo, accordion, maraca, tubist and xylophonist for Nine Inch Nails, more recently How To Destroy Angels, and Severus Snape impersonator for children's birthday parties, is a pioneer and role model to faggothseverywhere. Since the late 1980s Trent has been putting out angst ridden music for teenagers to cut themselves to. However, in the web 2.0 era of the 2000s, Trent has found something even more dark and disturbing: Social Networking."

wizfan
03-25-2015, 02:22 PM
I was listening to Autolux's first album yesterday (still great, by the way; like revisiting an old friend) and began to think of all the bands that got large exposure thanks to Trent since the With Teeth era. Thanks to his collaborations and his taste in picking support acts, I discovered a lot of artists I still adore today (Saul Williams, Peaches, A Place to Bury Strangers, Does it Offend You, Yeah?, Deerhunter, Dillinger Escape Plan...) and many of its bands have gone on to do amazing thinks. Look at Carla Azar: she's on the Jack White solo albums and the movie Frank! Grizzly Bear's Edward Droste had thanked Trent on Twitter for helping the band get new fans by tweeting about Yellow House. And Run the Jewels was one of the most (if not THE most) critically acclaimed hip hop albums of 2014. What other bands have hit it big thanks to NIN or HTDA?

Halo Infinity
03-25-2015, 02:24 PM
It seems like The Fragile and Ghosts I-IV are my most favorite Nine Inch Nails albums to listen to whenever I'm going on a stroll, or brisk walking. And far as the regular LPs go in those moments, I often find myself drawn to Pretty Hate Machine, With Teeth and Hesitation Marks the most.

r_z
03-25-2015, 07:54 PM
I notice a growing distance between me and NIN for the last few years. I once loved this music so much... now, too often I can't help but being put off by the lyrics and presentation of the whole thing.

Wolfkiller
03-25-2015, 11:55 PM
Normally I enjoy Trent's rants and sense of humor, but the way you specifically point out/take joy in a woman being called a cunt/prositute/pig is making me rethink said enjoyment. (It's like the "fans who love NIN because of Broken" problem in a nutshell.)

What about his quote makes you think his enjoyment is specifically about a WOMAN being called names and not just that round of trash talking in general?
And is this "fans who love Broken" some elitist thing I haven't heard of yet?

sheepdean
03-25-2015, 11:56 PM
And is this "fans who love Broken" some elitist thing I haven't heard of yet?
I was wondering that. Does liking Broken Movie make me a bad person?

eversonpoe
03-26-2015, 12:06 AM
What about his quote makes you think his enjoyment is specifically about a WOMAN being called names and not just that round of trash talking in general?
And is this "fans who love Broken" some elitist thing I haven't heard of yet?

because bill has been known to say sexist / misogynistic things in the past, in a way that makes it pretty clear that he IS a misogynist.

BenAkenobi
03-26-2015, 12:11 AM
I was wondering that. Does liking Broken Movie make me a bad person?

Try asking: does it make you a better person?

howdidislipinto
03-26-2015, 01:03 AM
And is this "fans who love Broken" some elitist thing I haven't heard of yet?

I said fans who love NIN *for* Broken -- I guess the distinction being that in life (and on this board occasionally) I feel like you see that a lot of people who got into NIN because of Broken tend to be the "stuck in 1993-1996" type of fan. I'm generalizing. Maybe there's just a loudmouthed faction of Broken-beginners.

seasonsinthesky
03-26-2015, 05:22 PM
i'd say this forum has an outspoken group of starters on every album pre-Ghosts.

Halo Infinity
03-26-2015, 06:55 PM
I said fans who love NIN *for* Broken -- I guess the distinction being that in life (and on this board occasionally) I feel like you see that a lot of people who got into NIN because of Broken tend to be the "stuck in 1993-1996" type of fan. I'm generalizing. Maybe there's just a loudmouthed faction of Broken-beginners.
In some ways, I could see what you mean, as I have seen and heard from some fans that only like Nine Inch Nails up to The Downward Spiral or The Fragile. And even if they were still fans, anything after The Downward Spiral or The Fragile just didn't really do it for them. When I also saw Nine Inch Nails in 2009 with three other friends at the time, we overheard some people complaining over the slower and softer songs. I think I even heard some people actually complain over A Warm Place when I saw Nine Inch Nails for the third time too.


i'd say this forum has an outspoken group of starters on every album pre-Ghosts.
I had to think about that for a moment until I remembered just how much Year Zero was loved around here. Dare I say, I think the Year Zero is loved a little bit more than With Teeth here. (Please bear with me though, as I'm also going by what I recall from ETS back in 2007-2009, and that's also assuming that my memory isn't failing me.)

Charmingly Miserable
03-27-2015, 09:08 PM
Now that Death Grips is going on tour, I wonder how Trent feels about them. Those fuckers.....

Halo Infinity
03-28-2015, 02:10 AM
I still sometimes think I've heard it all, and then this pleasant surprise shows up on YouTube. :D


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6NfwThvljI

neorev
03-28-2015, 09:56 AM
Now that Death Grips is going on tour, I wonder how Trent feels about them. Those fuckers.....

Fuck them one trick ponies
I'm sorry, but there's nothing good about them
They like to use major labels and bigger artists to get their name out there to more people and then fuck them over
They're just another gimmick and so full of shit

kleiner
03-28-2015, 11:21 AM
Now that Death Grips is going on tour, I wonder how Trent feels about them. Those fuckers.....

The fact that people will still buy tickets to see them is just amazing. They flat out faked a break up to get out of touring last year. I'd say I hope whoever still pays to see them doesn't get a show, but then again, that's happened before and all their fans called it "art" and claimed that it "was the show."

Joy Prevention Hotline
03-28-2015, 02:52 PM
Anyway, this is what it was about https://encyclopediadramatica.se/Andreaurbanfox
Encyclopedia Dramatica is your problem right there.


Now that Death Grips is going on tour, I wonder how Trent feels about them. Those fuckers.....
Wha tha fa?

Assholes. :)

telee.kom
03-28-2015, 05:56 PM
What's the problem with encyclopaedia dramatica? I thought it was pretty funny

Halo Infinity
03-28-2015, 09:20 PM
@kleiner352 (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=4417) - I thought that you might be able to appreciate A Warm Place slowed down. Or well, just about anybody that wanted to bask in A Warm Place. It causes me to feel so many emotions at once. Blissful, yet introspective, as it also induces childhood memories or random thoughts wondering why I'm here and what I'm here for.

I also get sorrow, but sometimes end up envisioning romance and intimacy. A Warm Place is exactly the kind of song I'd either grieve to or cuddle to depending on my mood and overall state of mind. Listening it slowed down just intensifies those thoughts and fantasies a lot more, especially since I daydream to that song a lot. The regular version already tugged at my heartstrings a lot, so having it slowed down just makes it go above and beyond whenever it comes to that.

@jezstyle (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=260) - I thought you might like my take on it, as you've seemed to like and enjoy some of my inner thoughts. And well, I still thank you for your kind words. They help me soldier on, while cheering me up. Thank you for seeing whatever good was left in me when I couldn't see/find it. (Yeah, I know. It's a Love List post roped in with a random NIN Thought.) :)

It also seems like there is a sound similar to the beginning of Reptile in the middle of it. It seems to start around the 5:40 mark of the video, just right when the Eraser sounds start to kick in. (Or as they kick in for that matter.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrjyuN2xkcs

somethingelse
03-28-2015, 09:28 PM
Ugh. I need more money to buy more shirts (http://store.nin.com/collections/home/products/nothing-hurts-black-tshirt).

GibbonBlack
03-28-2015, 09:44 PM
Ugh. I need more money to buy more shirts (http://store.nin.com/collections/home/products/nothing-hurts-black-tshirt).

That t-shirt makes me think of Catatonia

Wolfkiller
03-28-2015, 10:33 PM
Just started FIXED high and i already think I'm dead. Wish me luck guys
OH MY GOD GAVE UP IS HILARIOUS! AND HE'S SAYING TOKYO
i invented a dance called The Robot just now.
Trent reznor wrote fight club. Think about it!
i can't believe people listen to this sober. I'm marilyn manson right now. Sorry Hazekiah trigger warning.

Joy Prevention Hotline
03-28-2015, 11:15 PM
What's the problem with encyclopaedia dramatica? I thought it was pretty funny
It's symptomatic of troll culture. Hell, it is troll culture.

Wolfkiller
03-28-2015, 11:19 PM
Woodstock performance was faked on the moon. Think about it!

seasonsinthesky
03-28-2015, 11:50 PM
It's symptomatic of troll culture. Hell, it is troll culture.

this is problematic for sure, but the biggest problem is that it tries very hard but never gets funny for real. the reason you know it's trolling is precisely because it isn't actually funny.

Halo Infinity
03-29-2015, 09:11 AM
It's symptomatic of troll culture. Hell, it is troll culture.
It also seems like the same exact thing can be said about 4chan too. Anyway, I've often thought that the humor of both sites wouldn't really fly well on ETS most of the time anyway.

I have also seen an article of Trent Reznor on Encyclopedia Dramatica, but to my surprise, saw no separate article on Nine Inch Nails. I thought the "band" itself would've also been spoofed to hell too, as they also have articles on actual bands like Radiohead and Slipknot for instance. :p

icecream
03-31-2015, 12:23 PM
Regarding the TR/Romanek thing. Could it be possible Romanek is directing the Tension DVD?

GibbonBlack
03-31-2015, 08:07 PM
Regarding the TR/Romanek thing. Could it be possible Romanek is directing the Tension DVD?

That would have been directed the night it was filmed, and I'm pretty sure (though not certain) the guy who did that is known. I kinda remember some guy saying he had directed the Tension stuff, it's the same guy who stated it was 4 shows....or 2? My memory is very fuzzy on the whole thing

fillow
04-01-2015, 05:07 AM
Happy Birthday to Strobe Light!
Spinning this album today for the first time in months. Sounds damn fresh.

simonn
04-01-2015, 07:08 AM
That would have been directed the night it was filmed, and I'm pretty sure (though not certain) the guy who did that is known. I kinda remember some guy saying he had directed the Tension stuff, it's the same guy who stated it was 4 shows....or 2? My memory is very fuzzy on the whole thing

It's Kerry Asmussen.

http://gnrtruth.proboards.com/thread/2442

WorzelG
04-01-2015, 08:50 AM
It's Kerry Asmussen.

http://gnrtruth.proboards.com/thread/2442
Actually the guy said he only directed 2 of the 4 shows involved

Halo Infinity
04-01-2015, 08:57 AM
The fart noises on Echoing the Sound on April Fools' Day remind me of Things Falling Apart, because of the sound made on the 0:06 mark of The Wretched (Version) and the 1:56 mark of The Frail (Version). I'd imagine those sounds would go well when mixed in fart noises too, even though that part on The Frail (Version) already sounds like actual farts.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLhGWPAgTno

Halo Infinity
04-01-2015, 08:59 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pWxyJTL0-w

And well, Things Falling Afart? :p

All that farting also reminded me of this particular article from The Meathead Perspective as well.

http://www.theninhotline.net/meatpers/html/mp040126.htm

hobochic
04-01-2015, 09:23 AM
The fart noises on Echoing the Sound on April Fools' Day...


That explains it. The sounds came on at work but I thought they came from one of the other three dozen tabs I had open... My colleague was too polite to ask anything and I felt I'd make it worse by trying to explain from where they came.

Melancholygrl78
04-01-2015, 09:30 AM
^^^^Wow! That would had been hilarious if I had the speakers up on the desktop in the classroom! I think I will do that 3rd hour.

GibbonBlack
04-01-2015, 09:52 AM
Actually the guy said he only directed 2 of the 4 shows involved

This must be where my confusion on how many shows there were came from

scorpiusdiamond
04-03-2015, 08:53 PM
Um, so if you're twiddling your thumbs, you could join me in annotating the crap out of NIN on Genius.com
Go nuts. (http://genius.com/artists/Nine-inch-nails)
edit: Oh my god, please help, some of these interpretations are so wrong, it's killing me.

Hazekiah
04-05-2015, 07:02 AM
Just started FIXED high and i already think I'm dead. Wish me luck guys
OH MY GOD GAVE UP IS HILARIOUS! AND HE'S SAYING TOKYO
i invented a dance called The Robot just now.
Trent reznor wrote fight club. Think about it!
i can't believe people listen to this sober. I'm marilyn manson right now. Sorry @Hazekiah (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1162) trigger warning.

Okay, you tagged me.

I'm here now. I don't get it.

Exactly WHAT part of this goofy nonsense am I supposed to give a fuck about?

o_O

Well, w/e.

Since I'm here anyway...

The most high I'VE ever been listening to Fixed (and OMFG you don't even know how hard I've tried to top it) was back in '97 when Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope was released in theaters in the "Special Edition" format.

I'd done my best to arrange a get-together with five of my pals from the middle-of-nowhere descending that night upon the suburban college town I lived near, expecting to drop like omfg the strongest, double-dipped, laser-printed, perforated, fucking BADASS acid in the world on the way to see the movie together. Having spent all my limited funds procuring the acid for everyone, however, I'd failed to buy tickets for the movie premiere itself, which I hadn't realized until that night was pretty much sold out worldwide weeks in advance. D'oh!

So, after much bartering with the manager since we were underage, we got a cheap-o motel for the night instead and I brought my boombox and a couple CDs I thought would be OMFGKILLER to hear while tripping. We all double-dosed the double-dipped hits (Ax4, w00t!) and settled in while I started playing D.J./trip-guide.

One of the CDs I brought was Troublegum by Therapy?, which btw...OMFG ONE OF THE GREATEST ALBUMS EVER. It's like 14 1/2 songs long but barely over half-an-hour long so we were only just realllllly getting there towards the end of it. But everyone was OF COURSE digging on it HARD so I threw in the band's pretty obscure and kinda hard-to-find import single/E.P. I'd recently gotten annnnnd shit started going haywire. One of Therapy's big singles was called "Die Laughing," so they had a CD-single for it with a couple awesome live/b-side bonus tracks packaged in a case that actually fucking laughed at you when you opened it.

For example...




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ogred3i_JQ0



In my zeal to blow everyone's mind with the awesome bonus tracks, I probably kinda oversold the awesomeness of the packaging, and I inadvertently opened the (extremely overpriced and hard-to-replace) case wide enough that it wouldn't stop laughing. Which was mostly fine, except we were ALL kinda starting to COMPLETELY lose it by then, and even after we shoved it between the mattress and bed frame we could still hear it laughing at us between songs. Which I personally thought was FUCKING AWESOME but everyone else pretty much wanted to kill me for, lol.

So I tossed the damned thing in the bathtub, shut the door, and put Fixed on instead.

OMFG.

I'd recently found some primitive website that quoted all the Timothy Leary excerpts and shit sampled on there and I was making sure everyone knew exactly wtf they where hearing. Again, I was OMFG TOTALLY INTO IT and everyone else was pretty much FREAKING THE FUCK OUT, lol. Poor kids! When the whole E.P. built its way up to the INSANELY frenetic crescendo of "Fist Fuck" and finally got to the Showboat sample before going completely apeshit at the end, all of a sudden one of my pals got sick from the intensity of it all and had to run into the bathroom to puke.

We gave them some space for a few minutes until the CD ended. When we went to check in on them, there they were curled-up on the floor and practically catatonic with fear from the reverberating sound of the laughing CD case we all forgot was in there with them in the echo-chamber of the bathtub, omfglololol.

XD

So they took care of THEM while I went outside and threw the CD case in the trunk of the car. A few minutes later someone went to the car for smokes and said they could hear someone laughing from inside the trunk from across the lot and that people were looking at them funny, and since it was all kinda my fault and NONE OF US was in ANY position to explain ourselves to anyone, I just said FUCK IT and ripped the damn CD case in half to be done with it all finally.

The poor bathroom kid eventually recovered but this whole other guy who was there went batshit crazy and has been completely fucked in the head ever since, but he kinda was already before that anyway (funny how that works!) and everyone else had a fucking BLAST, so who gives a fuck, it's w/e and we'll just chalk that one up as a learning experience but mostly an EPIC FUCKING WIN, lol.

And THAT, my friend, is how you listen to Fixed high.

Oh, and Manson kicks ass, btw.

: P

Copy_of_an_Echo
04-05-2015, 06:23 PM
Hello forumers. A fellow member asked this question on the questions forum but people haven't replied yet. Anyone have the answer to this?

"Speaking of which (Year Zero period), does anyone know where THE BEST resource documenting ALL the hidden website stuff (content/meaning/how it was found/etc.) might be? I know there were several different compilation-websites put together for that purpose at the time and pretty quickly afterward, I'm just looking for opinions (and links? w00t) regarding whichever sites have been deemed most comprehensive for the full picture and organization/ease-of-browsing."

And while we're on that note...wasn't ets (or someone here once upon a time) the spearhead of some effort to package all that Year Zero website/concept album insanity on an interactive DVD with branching menus? OMFG, I'd especiallylove to see that! Did it ever happen? Someone PLZ say YES and link me there!

Dr Channard
04-05-2015, 07:02 PM
I don’t know why, but I find Mr Self Destruct to be by far the most humorous song title in the nin discography.

sheepdean
04-06-2015, 12:29 AM
I donít know why, but I find Mr Self Destruct to be by far the most humorous song title in the nin discography.
Are you aware he didn't even come up with it? It's another Soft Cell reference (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AJITR20/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00AJITR20&linkCode=as2&tag=theninhotli0a-20&linkId=FSZVL446K2W2UGAU)

BRoswell
04-06-2015, 12:38 AM
I don’t know why, but I find Mr Self Destruct to be by far the most humorous song title in the nin discography.

More humorous than Kinda I Want To? What about Big Man With A Gun? Even Deeper? *snicker*

Joy Prevention Hotline
04-06-2015, 08:27 PM
Are you aware he didn't even come up with it? It's another Soft Cell reference (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AJITR20/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B00AJITR20&linkCode=as2&tag=theninhotli0a-20&linkId=FSZVL446K2W2UGAU)
It's still cool anyway.


More humorous than Kinda I Want To? What about Big Man With A Gun? Even Deeper? *snicker*
I think the Doctor meant intentionally funny.

Charmingly Miserable
04-06-2015, 10:32 PM
I've been playing Piggy on a non stop loop for days now.

darksiren82
04-06-2015, 11:00 PM
I've been playing Piggy on a non stop loop for days now.
And I've watched Tension on youtube three times in a row...happily.

The_Prowler
04-08-2015, 08:51 AM
I've been playing Piggy on a non stop loop for days now.

And I've watched Tension on youtube three times in a row...happily.

And I've listened to the entirety of All That There Ever Was three times in as many days.

ryanmcfly
04-08-2015, 10:08 AM
I'm graduating college in May, and my school (University of North Texas) let's us design our the top of our cap. My roommate is going to put the cover of Strobelight on mine. Pretty fucking stoked for this.

edit: will post pics of progress when we start making it.

Volband
04-09-2015, 09:11 AM
Jesus fucking Christ, I check back here after a year and literally nothing happened. I've heard more NIN from The Walking Dead, than from NIN itself.

How
Can
You
Not
Even
Have
A
Release
Date
To
A
Live
DVD
Which
Was
Supposed
To
Be
Released
One
Year
Ago
And
Even
Then
We
Could
Watch
Half
Of
The
Material
?

If it won't be 3D with 2Pac and MJ digitally edited into the stage I won't accept any excuses. And of course, include the Everything MV+rehearsals. Dickhead.

Still love you though, Trent.

Prettybrokenspiral
04-09-2015, 02:53 PM
Jesus fucking Christ, I check back here after a year and literally nothing happened.

Some of us come here every day

how do you think we feel?

BRoswell
04-09-2015, 03:02 PM
Jesus fucking Christ, I check back here after a year and literally nothing happened.

Uh, you were here in December.

Prettybrokenspiral
04-09-2015, 03:06 PM
He's also not paying attention very well

in the last year, there's been the Australian tour with QOTSA, the Grammys debacle, and a double album of new soundtrack music.

Not to mention that trip he took to Disneyworld with Mariqueen and his kids. Actual photographic proof of TR having fun. How often do we get that?

Volband
04-09-2015, 07:01 PM
Uh, you were here in December.
Because I just watched Gone Girl, but did not go deep in what is actually happening with NIN, I figured they are on a well-deserved rest after all the touring.

Not to mention that trip he took to Disneyworld with Mariqueen and his kids. Actual photographic proof of TR having fun. How often do we get that?
I did not know about that one! Though hardly an actual NIN news, it's always nice to know he's alive. Can you give me a link to the pictures/thread about it?

Prettybrokenspiral
04-09-2015, 08:13 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-4vPBEBVCk3s/UZ1N9NYIWoI/AAAAAAAAArM/fPGoxqSFIUA/s1600/scenemissing.jpg

GibbonBlack
04-09-2015, 08:49 PM
There's more on her instagram page, if you follow her

I had hoped to never see that. Thanks....

Prettybrokenspiral
04-09-2015, 08:50 PM
See what?

________

GibbonBlack
04-09-2015, 08:57 PM
See what?

________

The paparazzi pic

billpulsipher
04-09-2015, 09:44 PM
Jesus fucking Christ, I check back here after a year and literally nothing happened. I've heard more NIN from The Walking Dead, than from NIN itself.

.

you missed the Tension DVD..oh wait nevermind...but there was The Fragile reissue..oh wait, nevermind...

butter_hole
04-09-2015, 09:59 PM
The paparazzi pic
pm me if u need support

thevoid99
04-09-2015, 10:02 PM
I didn't need to see that. Look, I don't mind pics of Trent and Mariqueen but their kids w/o their consent.... sorry but that's not cool. They're cute but it's just unnecessary to see.

butter_hole
04-10-2015, 02:25 AM
anyone... im here 2 help

GibbonBlack
04-10-2015, 05:46 AM
pm me if u need support

I appreciate it. Thanks :o

Dr Channard
04-10-2015, 05:50 AM
The long silence on the DVD after the initial announcement is bizarre. But Trent hasn’t been shiftless over the last year. He has allegedly been busy with that Beats-Apple music thing, right?

sweeterthan
04-10-2015, 12:15 PM
I don't think any of us know exactly what Trent is doing these days. He's not as social as he used to be. I really miss his cryptic posts about working.

buckaroo
04-10-2015, 12:24 PM
I don't think any of us know exactly what Trent is doing these days. He's not as social as he used to be. I really miss his cryptic posts about working.

It's not really about what Trent is doing. I don't think anyone really cares what he does or if he is busy. Nine Inch Nails is a brand and this is just poor PR. Anyone in his PR team could easily post an update saying it was cancelled or delayed and not expected before this date, etc... It's just really bad PR/marketing for the Nine Inch Nails brand. I'm talking specifically about the Tension DVD. I wouldn't expect any mainstream artist to be responsible for any of that stuff.

billpulsipher
04-10-2015, 01:10 PM
not to say I told you so....but I said a year ago Tension was never coming out and was dead.....now with a tour that is long over and an album that is long over and 0 percent interest in this project (outside of the die hardest of the die hards) it seems pointless for this thing to be released, unless he dumps it out on a torrent site

buckaroo
04-10-2015, 01:48 PM
not to say I told you so....but I said a year ago Tension was never coming out and was dead.....now with a tour that is long over and an album that is long over and 0 percent interest in this project (outside of the die hardest of the die hards) it seems pointless for this thing to be released, unless he dumps it out on a torrent site

at this point it doesn't even matter. who cares if it gets released or not. i just think it is really poor marketing to announce something, give a preview of it and then let so much time pass without saying it's not happening, it's delayed indefinitely, it's low priority, etc... and that information has to do with the people who market nine inch nails. not the artist. they could at least remove the link to sign up for the pre-order from the youtube video.

sheepdean
04-10-2015, 02:15 PM
at this point it doesn't even matter. who cares if it gets released or not. i just think it is really poor marketing to announce something, give a preview of it and then let so much time pass without saying it's not happening, it's delayed indefinitely, it's low priority, etc... and that information has to do with the people who market nine inch nails. not the artist. they could at least remove the link to sign up for the pre-order from the youtube video.
Don't remember the Closure DVD? Sometimes it's not even Trent's fault.

GlitchyFlame
04-10-2015, 02:28 PM
It's strange to not have any word on Tension but I doubt that it's been cancelled. I would think that they would have said something as well as remove links. But they haven't. This delay is another reason why the word "soon." should be used instead of a guessed release date. Remember when the Fragile reissue was supposed to come out 5 years ago?

fillow
04-10-2015, 02:49 PM
I wonder if NIN use the same PR manager as Valve does.

BRoswell
04-10-2015, 02:50 PM
not to say I told you so....but I said a year ago Tension was never coming out and was dead.....now with a tour that is long over and an album that is long over and 0 percent interest in this project (outside of the die hardest of the die hards) it seems pointless for this thing to be released, unless he dumps it out on a torrent site

What Billy Boy here wants you to forget is that it's not just Tension that's being covered anymore.

*ahem* From the Instagram post that followed the last date of the NIN/Soundgarden tour:


Last night in Auburn, WA was the final show of our 2013-2014 tour cycle. Thank you to everyone who came out to the shows and everyone who helped make them happen. Thank you to @soundgarden, @coldcave23, @dillingerescapeplan, and @0pn for sharing the stage with us on #NIN2014. We're hard at work on a video release that will encompass #NIN2013, #Tension2013, and #NIN2014. Stay tuned for details.

That was on the last day of August, which may seem like forever ago to some of you, but in good ol' fashioned reality, really wasn't. The fact of the matter is this: this has become a bigger release than originally planned, and yes, maybe an update or two would be nice, but the "all hope is lost" mentality that some people seem to have is bullshit.

billpulsipher
04-10-2015, 05:46 PM
What Billy Boy here wants you to forget is that it's not just Tension that's being covered anymore.

*ahem* From the Instagram post that followed the last date of the NIN/Soundgarden tour:



That was on the last day of August, which may seem like forever ago to some of you, but in good ol' fashioned reality, really wasn't. The fact of the matter is this: this has become a bigger release than originally planned, and yes, maybe an update or two would be nice, but the "all hope is lost" mentality that some people seem to have is bullshit.

keep wishing upon that star...check back in a year when nothing gets released, and you can apologize to me for being wrong

Dr Channard
04-10-2015, 07:11 PM
keep wishing upon that star...check back in a year when nothing gets released, and you can apologize to me for being wrong

Really? L I wish it didnít have to end this way.

sick among the pure
04-10-2015, 07:59 PM
keep wishing upon that star...check back in a year when nothing gets released, and you can apologize to me for being wrong

When it comes out, can I ship you a copy to sign for me?

GibbonBlack
04-10-2015, 08:38 PM
When it comes out, can I ship you a copy to sign for me?

That's a fun idea!

BRoswell
04-10-2015, 08:50 PM
keep wishing upon that star...

No thanks. I'll just stick to the facts. ;)

telee.kom
04-11-2015, 02:09 AM
NIN.com upgrade = nay

yeah, I always thought that tumblr layout for band's official website seem, for one, kinda cheap, and secondly, it takes forever to load especially with all those photos that are on the main page. Least they could do with it is restrict the amount of post that are showing up on main page to like five or something

EndlessLoveless
04-11-2015, 01:53 PM
The Tension DVD will be an all-encompassing interactive release, covering the entire HM era from start to finish. I bet they were waiting for that Russell Mills exhibition to run, so they can add it on the disc. When it finally gets released, its going to have so much content that it will blow us away. Some people will hate it though, just because they didnt like HM. I cant fucking wait. Saw every show around Chicago EXCEPT for the one with Pino and the girls. I would trade my "final" wave goodbye chicago date for that one. So im pretty psyched for it. It will come. Eventually. Soon.

Im not a big fan of the NIN website at the moment either. That tumblr front page needs to be mixed up a little. I actually check the hotline WAY more. Every day still, then here, and then barely ever nin.com.

Random NIN thought: 8 Ghosts 1 is so good, it kills me that he didnt save it and add lyrics and release it on a normal album. May be my favorite ghosts, at least it is today. Wouldve been a great Slip song.

billpulsipher
04-11-2015, 03:00 PM
No thanks. I'll just stick to the facts. ;)

the facts

like Bowery 09? remember that fancy DVD they filmed professionally with intent to release and it got buried...thats the facts

or the Fragile reissue

or that 1995 concert film

or that little sideproject with Keenan

the facts are in..and they point to one thing..TR has a history of burying things

Accept it and move on

sheepdean
04-11-2015, 03:34 PM
the facts

like Bowery 09? remember that fancy DVD they filmed professionally with intent to release and it got buried...thats the facts

or the Fragile reissue

or that 1995 concert film

or that little sideproject with Keenan

the facts are in..and they point to one thing..TR has a history of burying things

Accept it and move on
We never knew about the 95 film until long, long after it was scrapped, hardly a good example

GlitchyFlame
04-11-2015, 04:15 PM
Bowery 09? remember that fancy DVD they filmed professionally with intent to release and it got buried...thats the facts

or the Fragile reissue

or that 1995 concert film

or that little sideproject with Keenan

the facts are in..and they point to one thing..TR has a history of burying things

Accept it and move on

While the Bowery show shouldn't have been buried, every "fact" besides that is bullshit.

Trent still publicly comments on the Fragile re-issue and it seems like most of the time is spent on collecting demos and remixes, etc.

The '95 film wasn't even mention until years later, that isn't even a real example of "burying" something

and Tapeworm didn't work out as well as the band thought it would. That wasn't "buried"

I agree that the Tension DVD has gotten bigger than intended and will blow everyone away.

Prettybrokenspiral
04-11-2015, 06:45 PM
Trent still publicly comments on the Fragile re-issue and it seems like most of the time is spent on collecting demos and remixes, etc.

But seriously, how many demos and remixes does he think we want to hear? TDS reissue had one disc of b-sides, demos and remixes, and nobody screamed loud about wanting more. I highly doubt there is enough material in the Fragile vault that's going to shed significant light on the creative process behind that album. There is a bloated three-disc Fragile playlist that was curated by some fans and is floating around on the internet. Even that sounds excessive

The album has long been rumored to be mixed in 5.1 and finished. Just release the fucking thing already


and Tapeworm didn't work out as well as the band thought it would. That wasn't "buried"

And then there's this, which I'm ready to call absolute bullshit on

No way in hell Tapeworm "didn't work out the way we thought" or "just wasn't that good".

Give me a fucking break. You have Alan Moulder, MJK, Phil Anselmo, Danny Lohner, Toni Halliday, Atticus Ross and Page Hamilton all involved in the creative process of this. You have Alan Moulder on record in 2001 tracking up to 16 demos for the project. You have Danny Lohner saying in 2003 that the album is ready to mix.

Tapeworm went under for legal reasons, and nothing more. This was at a time in the industry when supergroups were the next big thing. Audioslave, Velvet Revolver, Zwan, and Tapeworm. Managers and record label execs all wanted a piece of the pie, and their money-grubbing asses couldn't come to an agreement, plain and simple.

I don't believe for a second that such combined talent created a lackluster product. It took Trent about four months to create Ghosts and The Slip. You're telling me those albums are better than the Tapeworm stuff? Seriously?

Not a chance. There's an album or two of Tapeworm stuff ready to go and ready to blow minds somewhere. This whole "it just wasn't good enough" excuse is complete and utter bullshit

GlitchyFlame
04-11-2015, 07:29 PM
No way in hell Tapeworm "didn't work out the way we thought" or "just wasn't that good".

Give me a fucking break. You have Alan Moulder, MJK, Phil Anselmo, Danny Lohner, Toni Halliday, Atticus Ross and Page Hamilton all involved in the creative process of this. You have Alan Moulder on record in 2001 tracking up to 16 demos for the project. You have Danny Lohner saying in 2003 that the album is ready to mix.

Tapeworm went under for legal reasons, and nothing more. This was at a time in the industry when supergroups were the next big thing. Audioslave, Velvet Revolver, Zwan, and Tapeworm. Managers and record label execs all wanted a piece of the pie, and their money-grubbing asses couldn't come to an agreement, plain and simple.

I don't believe for a second that such combined talent created a lackluster product. It took Trent about four months to create Ghosts and The Slip. You're telling me those albums are better than the Tapeworm stuff? Seriously?

Not a chance. There's an album or two of Tapeworm stuff ready to go and ready to blow minds somewhere. This whole "it just wasn't good enough" excuse is complete and utter bullshit
Legal reasons may have been the main reason, but don't you think something besides the re-imagined Perfect Circle and Puscifer songs would have shown up? Yes, you have many insanely talented people working on it, but come on, busy schedules, legal shit and so little loyalty to the project would have resulted in a cluster fuck.

botley
04-11-2015, 07:40 PM
Was the Wave Goodbye '09 show ever formally announced for release on DVD? I don't think it was.

sheepdean
04-11-2015, 07:41 PM
NYRexall yes, Ghosts and The Slip are probably better than Tapeworm. I think TW fell into the Chinese Democracy trap of too much time and too many people

Also Ghosts is perfect

BRoswell
04-11-2015, 11:00 PM
I was going to respond to Billy Boy's tired old responses, but I'm not even going to dignify him with answers anymore. He's like a fucking broken record, and frankly, I'm starting to feel the same way. (Part of his master plan perhaps? 0_0)


Give me a fucking break. You have Alan Moulder, MJK, Phil Anselmo, Danny Lohner, Toni Halliday, Atticus Ross and Page Hamilton all involved in the creative process of this. You have Alan Moulder on record in 2001 tracking up to 16 demos for the project. You have Danny Lohner saying in 2003 that the album is ready to mix.

You know the old saying: too many cooks spoil the broth.

*cue Too Many Cooks theme*

Khrz
04-12-2015, 04:41 AM
@NYRexall (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=911) yes, Ghosts and The Slip are probably better than Tapeworm. I think TW fell into the Chinese Democracy trap of too much time and too many people

Also Ghosts is perfect

This. Just because you have a bunch of talented people contributing doesn't mean the product is awesome, it doesn't work like that, especially since all the guests did was playing sessions out of context. Was it Anselmo who said quite early on that he didn't believe anything would come out of it, I can't remember...
Basically, the guys were playing guitar and drums to provide sampling fodder to Reznor and co. No matter how great they were, if the tracks were a mess there was nothing they could do about it.
Also, The Slip and Ghosts were a NIN affair. TW was a collective matter, who knows who flushed the project and why ? We know Reznor eventually thought it wasn't worth the release, but perhaps it's simply something with which he came to terms after to many complications. Or maybe there were simply too many cooks and the potential record went all over the place ?
Really we don't know enough about how the thing worked and how it went down to complain about anything...

WorzelG
04-12-2015, 04:47 AM
I thought Mantra was better than either Potions or Passive. I liked Potions but I can't even remember how Passive went after listening to it a few times

Khrz
04-12-2015, 04:56 AM
I, for one, liked Passive, better, but it seems to stray from the formula Vacant was supposedly built upon ; Vacant was supposed to slowly become faster and louder as the song progresses, which Passive does, but to an extent... I'm not sure how representative Potions and Passive are, compared to the songs from which they originated. Somehow I believe Maynard turned them into less top-heavy, less conceptual songs when it comes to their structure.

WorzelG
04-12-2015, 05:29 AM
I, for one, liked Passive, better, but it seems to stray from the formula Vacant was supposedly built upon ; Vacant was supposed to slowly become faster and louder as the song progresses, which Passive does, but to an extent... I'm not sure how representative Potions and Passive are, compared to the song from which they originated. Somehow I believe Maynard turned them into less top-heavy, less conceptual songs when it comes to their structure.
So is Vacant the actual Tapeworm song that hasn't been heard and the other two different arrangements?

Khrz
04-12-2015, 05:32 AM
I think that Potions was never heard of before Maynard played it at Reznor's wedding ? And Passive was played live as Vacant, or an already re-arranged version of Vacant, by Tool, I think. I remember Reznor being somewhat pissed off at Maynard for playing a Tapeworm song.
Edit : corrected my post above, it was confusing. Passive is Vacant, Potions another song entirely.

And really, I like those tracks, but if they're the best/most advanced ones Maynard could show out of the Tapeworm sessions, I think the rest is best buried. They aren't bad, but they aren't strong either. The only thing that would hold my interest is the context in which they were created, and all the awesome guys who helped creating them. If those were released by any other band, I really wouldn't see what the fuss is about.
But then again, who knows what they would have sounded like once actually finished by the group, instead of Maynard taking the matter into his own hands. They do sound like weaker APC/Puscifer tracks now, but I have no idea how the demos would have evolved in the context of Tapeworm...

Dr Channard
04-12-2015, 11:48 AM
No way in hell Tapeworm "didn't work out the way we thought" or "just wasn't that good".

If he says that he wasn’t pleased with the results, why not take him at his word?


This was at a time in the industry when supergroups were the next big thing. Audioslave, Velvet Revolver, Zwan, and Tapeworm.

These supergroups may have enjoyed some commercial success, yes. People made money, yes. Also, McDonald's sells a shit-ton of burgers, making assloads of money, but I’m not sure that automatically makes it a gourmet establishment. These supergroups were okay, but I never found any of their works to be nearly as good or important as the works of the members prior groups (Soundgarden, Rage, STP, GN’R, Smashing Pumpkins, APC). If anything, looking at this list of supergroups may validate what Trent was saying. Tapeworm could have sold some albums, sure, but may not have been all that great compared to what its members had already done elsewhere, and may have collapsed under its own weight eventually anyway. So why do it if it doesn’t feel right? After all, where are Audioslave, Velvet Revolver, and Zwan today?

gorast
04-12-2015, 12:04 PM
All three are dead in the ground because their members couldn't get along. That's the legacy of the mid-2000s supergroup craze.

I feel like if there was anything that was completed or worth listening to, we would've heard it by now. And Maynard did give us two tracks, and neither of them were really all that great. I don't think we're ever, ever goign to hear another note of Tapeworm material, and that's fine by me.

Volband
04-12-2015, 12:59 PM
Yeah, Ghosts is in no way better than the TW record would've been, or really, any decent regular album. Whenever I read "Ghosts>>>>>>>>>>all" from someone, I can't help but imagine a guy, sitting in his silk robe, drinking a wine worth 1,000,000 $ in a room with all kinds of overpriced and overhyped paintings on the wall. It sounds fucking artistic and deep that someone values a pile of instrumental tracks over ACTUAL songs, but it's just stupid.
Also, I dig Ghosts and the whole Ghosts project (which might or might not be dead, *cough*yearzero2*cough*), but I'd much prefer 1/4th as much instrumental tracks with more time spent on it. Yes, I get that the whole project is cool because it's just jamming, but JLYI is just superior.

And nothing can justify all this silence. I don't think anyone here is shocked, that the promised stuff is being delayed, but how fucking hard is it to keep us updated at least monthly? I don't expect NIN to ask us on facebook to support their cage matches, or post fan stuff, just don't give us the cold shoulder. Even a "something is coming..." with a 200 days countdown would be better than... than literally nothing. The fact that they are a year late with the Tension DVD release and they are not even commenting that is just beyond words. I know some of you are probably having a giggle out of how comical it is (and has been), and even I am guilty of this, a side of me pervertly likes how we are crapped on.

As for Tapeworm: I find it highly unlikely that the whole project was sacked because of legal issues. You know Trent, he would had ZERO reason not to come out sooner or later, so why would he still keep it as a secret in 2015?! He doesn't want us to think bad of those poor companies? Come on now!

Aaaand I googled the disneyland picture, it's CUTE. However, it lead me to MQ's instagram, which is... interesting to say the least. Well, at least someone from that family is active on social networks! We just need a few more years and we will have a shitton of info from the boys. "Mom and dad are listening to Closer looped for one hour now in the bedroom. #killme #hatemyparents #gross"

Jon
04-12-2015, 01:26 PM
Yeah, Ghosts is in no way better than the TW record would've been, or really, any decent regular album. Whenever I read "Ghosts>>>>>>>>>>all" from someone, I can't help but imagine a guy, sitting in his silk robe, drinking a wine worth 1,000,000 $ in a room with all kinds of overpriced and overhyped paintings on the wall. It sounds fucking artistic and deep that someone values a pile of instrumental tracks over ACTUAL songs, but it's just stupid.
Also, I dig Ghosts and the whole Ghosts project (which might or might not be dead, *cough*yearzero2*cough*), but I'd much prefer 1/4th as much instrumental tracks with more time spent on it. Yes, I get that the whole project is cool because it's just jamming, but JLYI is just superior.

Ghosts is/was an audio AND visual experience. I'm sorry you did not enjoy it. I will continue to enjoy it in my Starter shorts while looking at spots on the wall where my kids have colored.

Volband
04-12-2015, 01:40 PM
I never said I did not enjoy it, nor that you should not enjoy it. What i actually said is that comparing it to studio albums is just silly. Also, Ghosts having a visual experience means exactly nothing when we purely talk about sound.

Harry Seaward
04-12-2015, 01:44 PM
And Maynard did give us two tracks, and neither of them were really all that great.


http://i.imgur.com/bt6mp6m.jpg

m15a
04-12-2015, 01:48 PM
I can't help but imagine a guy, sitting in his silk robe, drinking a wine worth 1,000,000 $ in a room with all kinds of overpriced and overhyped paintings on the wall.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-YCJUY821gmM/UGalVFV2_gI/AAAAAAAAIiE/pv32QfKAj1M/s1600/p10.jpg

EDIT: never mind. i feel like i've already had this argument, maybe with the same person. but i'll keep the image.

Vertigo
04-12-2015, 01:56 PM
One of the things I find really interesting about the NIN community is how ridiculously varied the opinions are. I don't think any two people have the same estimation of even half Trent's catalogue.

You might think it's daft to hold Ghosts in such high regard (and personally it's near my least favourite of all his instrumental collections), but I'll bet there are plenty of people who'd think some of your opinions are weird too.

billpulsipher
04-12-2015, 02:15 PM
If he says that he wasn’t pleased with the results, why not take him at his word?



These supergroups may have enjoyed some commercial success, yes. People made money, yes. Also, McDonald's sells a shit-ton of burgers, making assloads of money, but I’m not sure that automatically makes it a gourmet establishment. These supergroups were okay, but I never found any of their works to be nearly as good or important as the works of the members prior groups (Soundgarden, Rage, STP, GN’R, Smashing Pumpkins, APC). If anything, looking at this list of supergroups may validate what Trent was saying. Tapeworm could have sold some albums, sure, but may not have been all that great compared to what its members had already done elsewhere, and may have collapsed under its own weight eventually anyway. So why do it if it doesn’t feel right? After all, where are Audioslave, Velvet Revolver, and Zwan today?

Tomahawk was a sick super-group..but even they shot their load after 2 albums

Volband
04-12-2015, 02:28 PM
One of the things I find really interesting about the NIN community is how ridiculously varied the opinions are. I don't think any two people have the same estimation of even half Trent's catalogue.

You might think it's daft to hold Ghosts in such high regard (and personally it's near my least favourite of all his instrumental collections), but I'll bet there are plenty of people who'd think some of your opinions are weird too.
It is indeed interesting, and I like reading arguments for and against each album, but the fake shit of saying "mmm yeah, ghosts was definitely better than tapeworm would've been" from our facepalm-warden sheepdean is just causing me eye pains from all the eye rolling it induces. Like, it puts up a facade that you are a person with deep understanding in music, because you just fucking rated Ghosts above not only a regular album, but a so called superproject, but at the same time, you are actually bashing an album no one among us has heard.

I just don't like double smart-assery, I guess.

Khrz
04-12-2015, 02:36 PM
Didn't see sheepdean say that, only remember seeing a post stating that Ghosts was good, but I can't be bothered to scan the thead...
But Ghosts is superior because it actually exists. :p

Volband
04-12-2015, 02:57 PM
I'm happy for it too, it was so random, yet so cool. Those were some good times to be a NIN fan.

WorzelG
04-12-2015, 03:07 PM
And nothing can justify all this silence. I don't think anyone here is shocked, that the promised stuff is being delayed, but how fucking hard is it to keep us updated at least monthly? I don't expect NIN to ask us on facebook to support their cage matches, or post fan stuff, just don't give us the cold shoulder. Even a "something is coming..." with a 200 days countdown would be better than... than literally nothing. The fact that they are a year late with the Tension DVD release and they are not even commenting that is just beyond words. I know some of you are probably having a giggle out of how comical it is (and has been), and even I am guilty of this, a side of me pervertly likes how we are crapped on.
it's especially irksome because he posted advice about what to do as an unknown band on nin.com with all this stuff about keeping your website updated, engaging your fans etc. I guess what he's saying is, if you're new, do this, if you're established, don't bother, just take the fans for granted.
http://forum.nin.com/bb/read.php?30,767183

sheepdean
04-12-2015, 03:13 PM
I never said I did not enjoy it, nor that you should not enjoy it. What i actually said is that comparing it to studio albums is just silly. Also, Ghosts having a visual experience means exactly nothing when we purely talk about sound.
Comparing The Fragile to studio albums is silly too.

I don't need a reason, I can just say that.

m15a
04-12-2015, 03:39 PM
What i actually said is that comparing it to studio albums is just silly.

I can't believe that you think that's all you wrote.

Prettybrokenspiral
04-12-2015, 05:06 PM
Yeah, Ghosts is in no way better than the TW record would've been, or really, any decent regular album. Whenever I read "Ghosts>>>>>>>>>>all" from someone, I can't help but imagine a guy, sitting in his silk robe, drinking a wine worth 1,000,000 $ in a room with all kinds of overpriced and overhyped paintings on the wall. It sounds fucking artistic and deep that someone values a pile of instrumental tracks over ACTUAL songs, but it's just stupid.


Agreed. It's background music, and little else. I *like* Ghosts, but without vocals, it comes across as little more than a dumping ground for a months-long instrumental jam session. And it supports my theory about the Tapeworm stuff ten-fold: if he'll release this, then why not a project he spent nearly a decade on?


busy schedules, legal shit and so little loyalty to the project would have resulted in a cluster fuck.

You have a point with the legal theory, but busy schedules? What were NIN, Pantera, Tool, Curve and Helmet doing post-2001? Pantera was already deep in hiatus mode, Tool were done touring and promoting Lateralus (as evidenced by the photos of Maynard in the studio working on Tapeworm stuff), and Helmet were years away from reforming at that point. None of them were too busy doing anything else during that period.

And loyalty? They worked on this thing for over eight years, bringing in a rogues gallery of talent. Clearly they had a vision for it, all the way up to 2003 when the album was ready to be mixed.



You know the old saying: too many cooks spoil the broth.

This is a bulljive excuse. By 2001, Alan Moulder was tracking 16 demos for the album. SIXTEEN demos! You don't bring in Alan Moulder to track 16 cuts you aren't sure about. By 2003, the album is ready to be mixed, according to Lohner. Mixed...as in, "shit's ready to go, stick it in the oven, let's bake this fucker and get it out there."

Too many cooks? All the entrees were clearly on the table for presentation by 2003.


This. Just because you have a bunch of talented people contributing doesn't mean the product is awesome, it doesn't work like that, especially since all the guests did was playing sessions out of context. Was it Anselmo who said quite early on that he didn't believe anything would come out of it, I can't remember...
Basically, the guys were playing guitar and drums to provide sampling fodder to Reznor and co. No matter how great they were, if the tracks were a mess there was nothing they could do about it.
Also, The Slip and Ghosts were a NIN affair. TW was a collective matter, who knows who flushed the project and why ? We know Reznor eventually thought it wasn't worth the release, but perhaps it's simply something with which he came to terms after to many complications. Or maybe there were simply too many cooks and the potential record went all over the place ?
Really we don't know enough about how the thing worked and how it went down to complain about anything...

Again, the album was being tracked by 2001 and ready for mixing by 2003. It's done. Somewhere.

You're telling me Things Falling Apart, The Slip and Ghosts were full of superior material more worthy of release than what he came up with for Tapeworm?

Not a chance. It's a legal nightmare, not a creative one.


If he says that he wasn’t pleased with the results, why not take him at his word?

Tapeworm could have sold some albums, sure, but may not have been all that great compared to what its members had already done elsewhere, and may have collapsed under its own weight eventually anyway.

I can't understand this argument that the music was so embarrassing and not up to snuff that nobody wanted the fans to hear it. Tool has released 10,000 Days. Puscifer has released pretty much whatever ideas Maynard has farting around in his brain. Trent has released Ghosts and Things Falling Apart. There are pockets of fans who dig those releases and shitloads of others who count those projects as the worst Maynard and Trent have ever released.

If Tapeworm were released tomorrow, the internet would have a fit. You'd have your snooty NIN/Tool fans who are never really interested in being happy who will say "Yep, it's like I said: absolute rubbish" and you'll have those who will rave about it for the rest of their lives.

Just fucking release it. Who cares what people think at this point? Trent has said numerous times over the years that With Teeth was a "safe" record, but that he had to let go of caring what others were going to think about it. And Maynard obviously doesn't give a fuck when he's releasing turds like "Cuntry Boner" and three different remix albums per Puscifer album.

If people can find love for Ghosts and the Slip, they'll be dancing in the streets for even the worst ​of the Tapeworm stuff

sheepdean
04-12-2015, 06:02 PM
I can't even understand the angle you're coming at. "No vocals so it must be subpar" - do you rank jazz, classical, funk, blues etc as lower because of their frequent lack of vocals too? People frequently slight Trent for his lyrics, an album with none of them where he and AR/AC could show off their musical chops should be appealing to those people.

Basically it's "I don't like this album (as much as the others) and therefore ANYONE who likes it more must CLEARLY be wrong or snooty, and not just someone who LIKES MUSIC".

And yes, I would rather have Ghosts V than Tapeworm. Might never get either, as TR+AR and AR solo scores exist by the bucketload and AC has done a lot of instrumental work lately, they may not be down for it. But I'd rather have it than music that was overbaked, thrown aside and recycled. We know much of TW has been recycled over the years, would not be shocked if we'd heard over half of the tracks in some form or other, it's basically NIN/Puscifer demoes at this point.


Or, better than either, give us 12 Rounds' third album.

Khrz
04-12-2015, 06:12 PM
It just hit me how much of this thread is filled with intense debates and angry arguments about CDs and DVDs that don't exist...

At this point, we're playing fantasy fandom.

The_Prowler
04-12-2015, 06:53 PM
It just hit me how much of this thread is filled with intense debates and angry arguments about CDs and DVDs that don't exist...

At this point, we're playing fantasy fandom.
Only where Trent is concerned can you become so bored/unsatisfied with arguing about what there actually is that you have to argue about what doesn't exist :p

Dr Channard
04-12-2015, 07:05 PM
Just fucking release it. Who cares what people think at this point?

Iím with you in that Iíd at least like to hear it even if it never got an official release. In the interview here it doesnít sound like Trent thought the results of the project were embarrassing, just an experiment that was mediocre, and at the end of the day not worth the time. And he does admit that commerce did play a part in the shelving of Tapeworm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5VN4MGhf8M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5VN4MGhf8M)

While we are at it with the fantasy fandom about CDs and DVDs that don't existÖ

Iíd like to hear the collaborations between De La Rocha and Trent.

Volband
04-12-2015, 08:55 PM
I can't believe that you think that's all you wrote.
I don't have to believe, I know it. I mean, I kinda wrote it myself.

I can't even understand the angle you're coming at. "No vocals so it must be subpar" - do you rank jazz, classical, funk, blues etc as lower because of their frequent lack of vocals too? People frequently slight Trent for his lyrics, an album with none of them where he and AR/AC could show off their musical chops should be appealing to those people.

Basically it's "I don't like this album (as much as the others) and therefore ANYONE who likes it more must CLEARLY be wrong or snooty, and not just someone who LIKES MUSIC".

And yes, I would rather have Ghosts V than Tapeworm. Might never get either, as TR+AR and AR solo scores exist by the bucketload and AC has done a lot of instrumental work lately, they may not be down for it. But I'd rather have it than music that was overbaked, thrown aside and recycled. We know much of TW has been recycled over the years, would not be shocked if we'd heard over half of the tracks in some form or other, it's basically NIN/Puscifer demoes at this point.


Or, better than either, give us 12 Rounds' third album.
No, you see, if you were to say is probably better than what TW would've been, I would not have lashed out on you, but Ghosts are B-material instrumental tracks at best. Yes, out of 38 tracks we are bound to LOVE some at the very least, and it's totally cool if you like them all, but if you really think those tracks are compareable to Just like You Imagined or Leaving Hope, than i have bad news for you.

Not to mention that the comparison would be unfair even with those instrumental songs. Anyway, what you said is that an instrumental jam session is probably better than a fully fleshed [I]all-star studio album.

But if Trent ever decides to do only ghosts live shows and only non-ghosts live shows separately and he gives us free tickets for each kind of show, I will gladly exchange my ghosts ones to your non-ghosts ones. You get better songs and don't even have to worry about the lyrics. You are basically robbing me!

No, but really, all we need now is someone to claim that The Slip is objectively a better album than The Fragile, and we can say that boredom in NIN land has absolutely reached it's peak. This argument is already surreal.

BRoswell
04-12-2015, 09:16 PM
Not to mention that the comparison would be unfair even with those instrumental songs.

So...why DID you make the comparison?

sheepdean
04-12-2015, 09:45 PM
Anyway, what you said is that an instrumental jam session is probably better than a fully fleshed all-star studio album.

But if Trent ever decides to do only ghosts live shows and only non-ghosts live shows separately and he gives us free tickets for each kind of show, I will gladly exchange my ghosts ones to your non-ghosts ones. You get better songs and don't even have to worry about the lyrics. You are basically robbing me!


You don't know what studio album means, do you?

(and like, yeah, there's many instrumental and/or jam session albums out there superior to albums full of celebrity wank)


Also, I've been asking for Ghosts live since it came out so your sarcasm just means you clearly have never read my posts.

m15a
04-12-2015, 09:53 PM
I don't have to believe, I know it. I mean, I kinda wrote it myself.

No, you said you had a prejudice about the type of fans that like Ghosts better than other albums. You were explaining how narrow minded you are.

Honestly, I find it completely baffling that you go on a fan community to tell people about the weird prejudices you have about some of the people in the community. Like, what's the point of posting on here if you don't want to learn about other fans perspectives?

Volband
04-12-2015, 10:10 PM
So...why DID you make the comparison?
My biggest problem was that Ghosts can't really called a "put togther" album, and it falls short to other "real" instrumental tracks from NIN. But yeah, I suppose I did compare it as well.

You don't know what studio album means, do you?

(and like, yeah, there's many instrumental and/or jam session albums out there superior to albums full of celebrity wank)


Also, I've been asking for Ghosts live since it came out so your sarcasm just means you clearly have never read my posts.
Yes, technically Ghosts is a studio album, but I'm pretty sure everyone knew what I meant by that, but I'll try to avoid implying it is not one, so I don't slip up on formalities.

And the whole album would've had higher quality songs if it only contained ~10 tracks. But it was never their goal to make 38 amazing songs, Ghosts strength is in the uniqeness of the whole project, and that's why it saddens me, when it comes up in music quality discussions. It's totally cool if it became a cult record for some of you folks, but when the discussion is about whether the Tapeworm tracks rocked or not, "Ghosts are probably better!!" is the most random answer out there.

Prettybrokenspiral
04-12-2015, 10:18 PM
I can't even understand the angle you're coming at. "No vocals so it must be subpar" - do you rank jazz, classical, funk, blues etc as lower because of their frequent lack of vocals too? People frequently slight Trent for his lyrics, an album with none of them where he and AR/AC could show off their musical chops should be appealing to those people.

Dude, it's just background music to me. Some of the instrumentals on The Fragile sound lazy, tossed off and filler-like to me, too. I'm glad that you enjoy Ghosts so much. Really, I'll sleep better tonight knowing that. I just don't understand why a 10-week jam session of instrumentals is fit for mass consumption, but an eight-year all-star project is deemed mediocre. If Trent is to be believed in that video clip Channard posted, and he was just wasting time for years to avoid writing a NIN record, then why go through all that trouble to recruit that sort of clientele, only to can it in the 11th hour.

Because that's what he did. He pulled the plug on it at the 11th hour. Obviously Maynard and Phil didn't think it was bad if they took time out of their schedules to record entire songs for the project, and even release modified versions of it later. Obviously Danny Lohner didn't think it was that bad if he felt the album was ready to go into the mixing stage.

It's Trent's project, and he can do whatever he wants with it. I get that. I just think his reasoning behind it, outside of the legal jurisdiction, is mediocre. "We spent eight years creating this music, recruiting all these A-listers who believed in Tapeworm, but at the end of the day I have self-esteem issues and don't want people to hear this."

Well, okay then.

Meanwhile, we get Ghosts, With Teeth, The Slip and Hesitation Marks. All enjoyable bodies of work, but nowhere close to TDS or The Fragile.


Basically it's "I don't like this album (as much as the others) and therefore ANYONE who likes it more must CLEARLY be wrong or snooty, and not just someone who LIKES MUSIC".

Basically, that's not what I was inferring at all.

I like music, too. A LOT. Just because Trent says Tapeworm is mediocre doesn't mean me or 3/4 of his fanbase will agree. If that shit leaked tomorrow, every NIN fan -- yourself included -- would be chomping at the bit to hear it, enjoy it, dissect it, et al. Nobody would sit there and say "Well, Trent said it's bad, so it must be bad, so I'm not going to bother listening to it."


And yes, I would rather have Ghosts V than Tapeworm. Might never get either, as TR+AR and AR solo scores exist by the bucketload and AC has done a lot of instrumental work lately, they may not be down for it.

I'm sure we'll see Ghosts V-XX well before we'll ever see Tapeworm, don't worry. Even though the three movie scores Trent and Atticus have released all make Ghosts look like a high school dress rehearsal.

Oops, i'm being subjective again..


But I'd rather have it than music that was overbaked, thrown aside and recycled. We know much of TW has been recycled over the years, would not be shocked if we'd heard over half of the tracks in some form or other, it's basically NIN/Puscifer demoes at this point.

This kind of just proves my point, really: apparently the music wasn't that bad, if it's being re-routed elsewhere. Even Saul Williams and his excellent Niggy Tardust album got a piece of that TW action.

Was the Tapeworm music quagmired because of legalities? Yes, most definitely. Was the music probably as bad as Trent claims it was? No, not hardly. But that's just me.

http://www.aintnoright.org/images/smilies/confused-smiley-013.gif

Volband
04-12-2015, 10:20 PM
No, you said you had a prejudice about the type of fans that like Ghosts better than other albums. You were explaining how narrow minded you are.

Honestly, I find it completely baffling that you go on a fan community to tell people about the weird prejudices you have about some of the people in the community. Like, what's the point of posting on here if you don't want to learn about other fans perspectives?
I have a prejudice about the type of people who would hop into a "Metallica or Slayer?" argument with a 40 minutes long ambient song from [insert some ambient producer here], stating it's better than both of them. No one would care what he likes, but people better recognize how stupid the comparison is and call him out on that.

I really don't mind anyone's NIN opinion here, the rate every NIN albums thread and the cotnroversial NIN opinions thread showed that if someone were to write a profile about the average NIN fan he'd better start with shooting himself in the head, because it's like the biggest paradox ever. I don't care if someone likes The Slip the most, or someone hates both TDS and TF, or someone thinks Ghosts is the only good NIN record, like whatever dude. Don't try to force your view about me onto me, when it couldn't be farther from the truth; I think I wrote many times that I like Ghosts as well.

So unless you think comparing apples with oranges in an apples discussion on a board is fine, but calling said guy out on that is wrong, I think I'm OK.

BRoswell
04-12-2015, 10:24 PM
Why is it all Trent's fault? This was a GROUP project. I don't see any of the other people involved pushing hard to see it all released.


My biggest problem was that Ghosts can't really called a "put togther" album...

It most certainly can be. It's obvious that the tracks were sequenced in a specific way, and the fact that some tracks even segue into others is at least a shred of proof that there was some thought into how the album was put together. Trent and Co. didn't just say "Well, here's us fucking around on some instruments. Let's just throw it online." It may have been the result of experimentation and spontaneity, but I don't think that makes it any less valid of an album.


...and it falls short to other "real" instrumental tracks from NIN.

Says you.

Prettybrokenspiral
04-12-2015, 10:29 PM
Why is it all Trent's fault? This was a GROUP project. I don't see any of the other people involved pushing hard to see it all released.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5VN4MGhf8M

Because Trent *is* the one who put a stop to it @ 2:26

BRoswell
04-12-2015, 10:44 PM
Because Trent *is* the one who put a stop to it @ 2:26

Trent putting a stop to it years ago doesn't mean that the other people involved couldn't step up TODAY and say "Look, we worked really hard on these tracks, and we think they're worth putting out". NOBODY has done that, and if any of them felt that the tracks were as good as you seem to think they are, they probably would have, even if it was a futile effort.

Prettybrokenspiral
04-12-2015, 11:44 PM
Trent putting a stop to it years ago doesn't mean that the other people involved couldn't step up TODAY and say "Look, we worked really hard on these tracks, and we think they're worth putting out". NOBODY has done that, and if any of them felt that the tracks were as good as you seem to think they are, they probably would have, even if it was a futile effort.

Dude, whatever.

You asked why people were blaming Trent for halting the Tapeworm project, and I showed you proof. I'm sure if Phil Anselmo or Page Hamilton came forward and said "Release this or else we're not friends anymore", Trent wouldn't give a shit. Same goes for Maynard.

In the end, it's not about who's right or who's internet dick is bigger in an argument. No Tapeworm means the fans lose, that's all. There's plenty of other great music from Trent and the gang to be thankful for.

BRoswell
04-13-2015, 12:23 AM
Dude, whatever.

You asked why people were blaming Trent for halting the Tapeworm project, and I showed you proof.

You showed me an interview clip that I've seen many times since it was first posted. I GET that Trent stopped it. My point was: why is Trent the only one getting shit on for not caring about a release? He wasn't the only member of the group, and if these tracks are so amazing that the world HAS to hear them, why hasn't anybody involved with the project pushed to make it happen? As another old saying goes: the squeakiest wheel gets the oil.


I'm sure if Phil Anselmo or Page Hamilton came forward and said "Release this or else we're not friends anymore", Trent wouldn't give a shit. Same goes for Maynard.

I'm not saying it would work. I'm saying that SOME effort is better than nothing, which is what we've gotten in the subsequent years from everyone involved. Like you said, eight years is a long time to work on something.


No Tapeworm means the fans lose, that's all.

I don't know about anyone else, but I can't really be disappointed about something that I've heard absolutely nothing from.

BenAkenobi
04-13-2015, 01:36 AM
Where are Italian bootleggers when you need 'em?

fillow
04-13-2015, 02:04 AM
Where are Italian bootleggers when you need 'em?
More like, where is seed0 when you need him?

jmtd
04-13-2015, 04:02 AM
The level of fan entitlement on display in this thread is reaching epic proportions.

Khrz
04-13-2015, 04:12 AM
I'm with NYRexall on Ghosts. It's actually a perfect name, those songs feel like fading memories, with no real purpose and little substance. From what I gathered at the time, it was the point, somewhat.
Even though there are a lot of intriguing things there, Reznor's soundtrack work proved to be equally interesting, but more fulfilling, more accomplished.
And listening to Gone Girl or TGWTDT, I really wish NIN would try something in that direction, for once. There are instrumentals there that are more interesting than anything released in Hesitation Marks, on every level.
I can really see NIN going in a weird Grizzly Bear direction, Reznor proved time and time again that he doesn't need to scream and use apocalyptic guitars to be unsettling and menacing...

hobochic
04-13-2015, 05:06 AM
Tapeworm started as a fun side project by members in the NIN camp that weren't "NIN is Trent Reznor".

Tapeworm soon evolved into "let's let Trent play with us and perhaps get more attention".

Trent went in and owned the bigger share, meaning, owning the recording equipment, studio, the kitchen sink... and the dogs.

Bigger players were invited.

The stakes were raised.

Trent, the perfectionist, didn't want to ruin his reputation/lose control.

"It's not good enough"

Tapeworm died.

The end.

Volband
04-13-2015, 05:21 AM
Why is it all Trent's fault? This was a GROUP project. I don't see any of the other people involved pushing hard to see it all released.



It most certainly can be. It's obvious that the tracks were sequenced in a specific way, and the fact that some tracks even segue into others is at least a shred of proof that there was some thought into how the album was put together. Trent and Co. didn't just say "Well, here's us fucking around on some instruments. Let's just throw it online." It may have been the result of experimentation and spontaneity, but I don't think that makes it any less valid of an album.



Says you.
You guys are making some pride-battle out of this. I don't want to invalidate Ghosts, but show me a track, which has the depth of Leaving Hope, or show me a track which has the constructed and epic feeling of Just Like You Imagined, but I could also mention A Warm Place (though it has shady origins) and The Downward Spiral (excluding the lyrics). And don't use the kindergarden replies this time, like says me, or whatever, I'm expecting everyone to have an objective opinion on the matters, even if we could argue for eternity whether the term "objective" exists at all or not.

Ghosts are fragments, that's what they are. Amazing fragments? To each to their own, but why would you ever compare them to (won't think up a better word) finished tracks with vocals? I love Ghosts 8 for example, but how would you imagine a debate between I Do Not Want This and Ghosts 8? "Well, I like how Ghosts 8 explodes in your face and the guitars are raw. Raw guitars are cool. Pumps me up. Great." Now let me not give an example of an IDNWT analysis. At the end, you can like Ghosts 8 more, but to say it's artistically a better song is a bit of a stretch.

Tapeworm started as a fun side project by members in the NIN camp that weren't "NIN is Trent Reznor".

Tapeworm soon evolved into "let's let Trent play with us and perhaps get more attention".

Trent went in and owned the bigger share, meaning, owning the recording equipment, studio, the kitchen sink... and the dogs.

Bigger players were invited.

The stakes were raised.

Trent, the perfectionist, didn't want to ruin his reputation/lose control.

"It's not good enough"

Tapeworm died.

The end.
I cri evri tiem.

BenAkenobi
04-13-2015, 05:46 AM
Trent, the perfectionist, didn't want to ruin his reputation/lose control.


I need this bit explained. What exact reputation are we talking about?
Reputation of singer/songwriter, musician, producer, john lennon's keyboard owner - which one?

hobochic
04-13-2015, 06:06 AM
I need this bit explained. What exact reputation are we talking about?
Reputation of singer/songwriter, musician, producer, john lennon's keyboard owner - which one?

All of them, I guess. Perhaps the perfectionist/musician/producer/genius/mastermind who rules and steers NIN with an iron fist (and tinkers on the Lennon mellotron).

Tapeworm wasn't meant to be a big statement from the guys in the NIN crew, but it soon evolved into something that needed to be "good enough".

Trent later on grew into releasing stuff that weren't "big statements", sadly Tapeworm got stuck in between phases.

EndlessLoveless
04-13-2015, 08:54 AM
I agree that certain Ghosts are better than others. But the ones that are good, are really good. I can enjoy them for what they are, but find myself longing for vocals alot of the time. I enjoyed Ghosts WAY more than the soundtrack work. Because it sounds way more NIN to me. The soundtracks are nice, they arent bad, but i rarely go back for another listen to one or more songs. There is a reason the soundtracks arent by "nine inch nails" and are TR and AR. They def sound different than his other instrumental work.

Ive said it before...if TR cut some ghosts, and fleshed out others, adding lyrics....it would be the greatest nin album of them all.

I also find it hard to believe that Tapeworm sounded "mediocre". Impossible. I bet it sounded VERY Puscifer. Puscifer AFTER the first album "V is for...". Like the EP's and "Condidtions". I have a sneaking suspicion that MJK modeled that after the Tapeworm idea, sound and all. Prob a little less 'metal'.

Khrz
04-13-2015, 10:09 AM
Ive said it before...if TR cut some ghosts, and fleshed out others, adding lyrics....it would be the greatest nin album of them all.



Meh, Demon Seed never did it for me, actually.

Edit : alright, I've re-read my post and realized I did something many people do online : I interpreted what you said and cut corners to make it fit my argument. The irony being that by doing this, I undermined my own post above :p
I see what you mean, and totally agree. Demon Seed is an example of what you said, but probably not the best example we could use.

Dr Channard
04-13-2015, 11:52 AM
There seems to be a fair amount of talk about Ghosts and The Slip here. Ghosts wasnít the most impressive NIN project ever, but I can appreciate it for what it is. I donít think that Trent ever intended for Ghosts to be the masterstroke of his musical genius, more of a musical experiment that would open the way for some interaction between the artists and the fans (the film festival thing). And having gone independent, Ghosts was a simple way for Trent to experiment with how to release his music, pricing, packaging, what people wanted and what they wanted to pay, etc.

I donít think besting TDS or TF was ever the goal with The Slip. It may not be topĖshelf NIN, but whatever, he gave it away for free as a thank you to the fans. Nobody was forced to pay a penny. I think that was a very cool thing to do. Plus The Slip was probably another experiment for Trent. I believe that he had talked about releasing music for free to see if that would create fan interest which might result in sales in other areas, like concert tickets, apparel, limited edition packages, etc. So he created an album to thank the fans and at the same time test his business hypothesis.

Also Ghosts and The Slip paved the way for the Lights in the Sky tour. Awesomeness.

m15a
04-13-2015, 11:55 AM
Don't try to force your view about me onto me, when it couldn't be farther from the truth

Fair enough. To be clear, I'm describing what your posts said Ė that's not the same as saying who you are, and I don't mean to make any claim about that. I'm just taking issue with what you wrote. I find it very offensive, and I tried to explain why.

What I found offensive has nothing to do with the quality of Ghosts or Tapeworm or how any member of the board feels about them.

BRoswell
04-13-2015, 12:34 PM
You guys are making some pride-battle out of this. I don't want to invalidate Ghosts, but show me a track, which has the depth of Leaving Hope, or show me a track which has the constructed and epic feeling of Just Like You Imagined, but I could also mention A Warm Place (though it has shady origins) and The Downward Spiral (excluding the lyrics).

You already said that comparing them is unfair, so why do you keep trying to do it?


And don't use the kindergarden replies this time, like says me, or whatever, I'm expecting everyone to have an objective opinion on the matters, even if we could argue for eternity whether the term "objective" exists at all or not.

"Ghosts doesn't compare to [insert previous instrumental here]" is not an objective opinion, hence why I said "says you".


Ghosts are fragments, that's what they are. Amazing fragments? To each to their own, but why would you ever compare them to (won't think up a better word) finished tracks with vocals?

You're acting like Ghosts was just a bunch of demo tracks that Trent was too lazy to add lyrics to. That clearly wasn't the case.


I love Ghosts 8 for example, but how would you imagine a debate between I Do Not Want This and Ghosts 8? "Well, I like how Ghosts 8 explodes in your face and the guitars are raw. Raw guitars are cool. Pumps me up. Great." Now let me not give an example of an IDNWT analysis. At the end, you can like Ghosts 8 more, but to say it's artistically a better song is a bit of a stretch.

You JUST talked about how ridiculous it is to compare them to "finished tracks with vocals", and then you go and do it anyway.

sheepdean
04-13-2015, 01:19 PM
Repeatedly this just feels like "I don't respect instrumentals".


It's fine, 100% fine, with someone not liking Ghosts, it's not for everyone - nor is Broken! (disclaimer: or not liking as much). But there's this constant attitude of anyone who prefers Ghosts must be WRONG. They're full pieces. They're not background music. They're not just outtakes from a jam session. You may not like them in that guise but hey - I don't like Mantra, which was literally the output of a jam session.

billpulsipher
04-13-2015, 02:38 PM
Dude, whatever.

You asked why people were blaming Trent for halting the Tapeworm project, and I showed you proof. I'm sure if Phil Anselmo or Page Hamilton came forward and said "Release this or else we're not friends anymore", Trent wouldn't give a shit. Same goes for Maynard.

In the end, it's not about who's right or who's internet dick is bigger in an argument. No Tapeworm means the fans lose, that's all. There's plenty of other great music from Trent and the gang to be thankful for.

Phil has actually gone on record saying he has no clue why the thing was shelved and that he thought it was great


As for Trent...Its interesting he deemed Tapeworm unworthy of his perfect discography, yet then releases Witha Teetha, Slip and Hesitation Marks...Considering there are fanboys who lap up anything The Rez shits out and deems it his greatest work ever, I am sure the worst of Tapeworm would still be regarded as a masterpiece by those people

BRoswell
04-13-2015, 02:45 PM
You know what they say about assuming...

WorzelG
04-13-2015, 02:51 PM
Phil has actually gone on record saying he has no clue why the thing was shelved and that he thought it was great


As for Trent...Its interesting he deemed Tapeworm unworthy of his perfect discography, yet then releases Witha Teetha, Slip and Hesitation Marks...Considering there are fanboys who lap up anything The Rez shits out and deems it his greatest work ever, I am sure the worst of Tapeworm would still be regarded as a masterpiece by those people
I thought it was supposed to be democratic etc, the other guys should man up and tell TR to fuck off if they feel that strongly about it. (I guess Maynard kind of did).

I think it was @hobochic (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=888) who pointed out that Tapeworm was shelved before TR even started working on With Teeth, he must have had a change of heart re obsessive perfectionism. It's like between eras

howdidislipinto
04-13-2015, 04:17 PM
At best, Tapeworm is worse than With Teeth. Isn't that the end of the discussion? With Teeth has enough filler on it, does anyone really want to hear the songs that were deemed worse than that?

(I feel dirty because it sort of sounds like I'm agreeing with Bill, but as usual he kept talking and made an ass of himself, so I'm probably fine.)

seasonsinthesky
04-13-2015, 04:21 PM
pretty sure everyone has forgotten the ENTIRE point of Ghosts I-IV is soundtrack music. they literally had film scenes on a screen in the same room and organically constructed soundtracks to fit. it's the same as the soundtracks for TSN and TGWTDT and GG but without an actual film to watch – you have to make your own (hence the film festival).

some don't need this context to appreciate the album (especially IV, for me), but i bet some of you do, judging by the replies.

Vertigo
04-13-2015, 04:34 PM
Yup. I think of it as the first TR/AR soundtrack rather than the Xth (it's late, can't be arsed to count) Nine Inch Nails album.

billpulsipher
04-13-2015, 05:12 PM
(I feel dirty because it sort of sounds like I'm agreeing with Bill, but as usual he kept talking and made an ass of himself, so I'm probably fine.)

says the guy who facepalms every post I put up for the sake of facepalming....what I said was "Considering there are fanboys who lap up anything The Rez shits out and deems it his greatest work ever"....Seems pretty accurate to me..In fact you just proved my point for me. If anyone doesnt get on their knees and praise the almighty Trent, they are a "jackass" or a "troll"....stop sucking Trents balls, Rob already has that market cornered

so glad NYRexall is being vocal on this board lately, finally someone who also speaks the truth and knows whats up, unlike these fanboys

GibbonBlack
04-13-2015, 05:20 PM
(I feel dirty because it sort of sounds like I'm agreeing with Bill, but as usual he kept talking and made an ass of himself, so I'm probably fine.)

Bill often makes sound points and coats them aggressively. It's his thing and he's one of the most entertaining people on this board for it

Khrz
04-13-2015, 05:31 PM
Man I'm too old to keep up with fads these days. So, acting like a total dick is fun again now ?

howdidislipinto
04-13-2015, 05:39 PM
says the guy who facepalms every post I put up for the sake of facepalming....what I said was "Considering there are fanboys who lap up anything The Rez shits out and deems it his greatest work ever"....Seems pretty accurate to me..In fact you just proved my point for me. If anyone doesnt get on their knees and praise the almighty Trent, they are a "jackass" or a "troll"....stop sucking Trents balls, Rob already has that market cornered

But you've called me a fanboy for liking Hesitation Marks when I just pointed out that I think With Teeth is half a turd, so everything you just said falls entirely apart.

...well, I am a fanboy, but not blindly so. Trent's made a truly diverse assortment of music since 2005. Personally, I don't like With Teeth, but think the rest is tops. A gazillion people on this board love With Teeth/hate YZ or The Slip. The only one ever making blind, broad declarations tends to be you.

GibbonBlack
04-13-2015, 06:20 PM
Man I'm too old to keep up with fads these days. So, acting like a total dick is fun again now ?

It's fun when someone is so obviously fucking with people and they're well aware of it.....but they keep on. One of my favourite quotes from this board was a while ago when someone said "Replying to you is pointless but I'll do it anyway". I forget who said it but the same basic thing gets said every time there's a slight debate with Bill and watching people who know they're dealing with a troll beat on, boats against the current, is fun

howdidislipinto
04-13-2015, 06:29 PM
It's fun when someone is so obviously fucking with people and they're well aware of it.....but they keep on. One of my favourite quotes from this board was a while ago when someone said "Replying to you is pointless but I'll do it anyway". I forget who said it but the same basic thing gets said every time there's a slight debate with Bill and watching people who know they're dealing with a troll beat on, boats against the current, is fun

It was me, and it IS fun!

Prettybrokenspiral
04-13-2015, 07:47 PM

Considering there are fanboys who lap up anything The Rez shits out and deems it his greatest work ever, I am sure the worst of Tapeworm would still be regarded as a masterpiece by those people

I'll freely admit to being one of those fanboys though. I love everything the guy has released, in some capacity. Some things are better than others, some take more time to warm up to, but in the end, he's my favorite because his output is consistently great to me.




Trent, the perfectionist, didn't want to ruin his reputation/lose control.

"It's not good enough" Tapeworm died. The end.

Isn't it funny how Tapeworm started out as a democracy to break out of the whole one-guy-rules-the-realm structure, only for Trent to put the kibosh on the whole thing in the end. If what Lohner told Kerrang in late-2003 is true -- that the album was completed and just needed to be mixed -- that leaves only a six month window for Trent to proclaim it dead during the fan Q&A in the first half of 2004. That's an awfully short time period to go from the album nearing completion to deciding it's "not good enough". Especially after you've put seven or eight years into it by that point. Trent says the Tool/NIN stuff was a 7/10; they're two completely different bands. I'll be more than happy with a Tool/NIN hybrid that's a seven out of a possible ten any day. It's a dumb thing to worry about, and again, the fans lose in the end.

Imagine if the same shit happens with Fragile Deluxe. That's nearing it's six-year mark of when it was first Twitter-teased. "It's coming soon!" Updates, more updates, all these lost demos and remixes that demand to be included...fuck, all we need is a website with some pictures of the thing being assembled and then the plug can be pulled on that, too.

billpulsipher
04-13-2015, 10:11 PM
But you've called me a fanboy for liking Hesitation Marks when I just pointed out that I think With Teeth is half a turd, so everything you just said falls entirely apart.

...well, I am a fanboy, but not blindly so. Trent's made a truly diverse assortment of music since 2005. Personally, I don't like With Teeth, but think the rest is tops. A gazillion people on this board love With Teeth/hate YZ or The Slip. The only one ever making blind, broad declarations tends to be you.

I actually LIKE With Teeth...It was commercial and certain songs were kind of desperately reaching for a hit single...but its a cool NIN rock record

billpulsipher
04-13-2015, 10:11 PM
It's fun when someone is so obviously fucking with people and they're well aware of it.....but they keep on. One of my favourite quotes from this board was a while ago when someone said "Replying to you is pointless but I'll do it anyway". I forget who said it but the same basic thing gets said every time there's a slight debate with Bill and watching people who know they're dealing with a troll beat on, boats against the current, is fun


first you said I make sound points and make them aggressively, then secondly you said I was trolling....If I am making sound points, I cant be trolling...Like you said, I may make them aggressively, but most of my posts are coming from a sincere place.....except the time I called the backup singers, "gospel singers"..I admit that was an obvious troll move directed to piss certain people (sarah k) off

howdidislipinto
04-13-2015, 10:56 PM
I actually LIKE With Teeth...It was commercial and certain songs were kind of desperately reaching for a hit single...but its a cool NIN rock record

You're such a fuckin' fanboy.

​ballsucker

hobochic
04-14-2015, 12:47 AM

you've put seven or eight years into it by that point... the fans lose in the end.


Not to mention Lohner, who perhaps needed it most of them all, after investing his best years and laying [his most creative work?] on the project. Somewhere things got sketchy. Clouser comes out and mentions how Tapeworm already had become a running joke among them long before new people (Jerome) got the invitation to join.

Lohner is probably one of the most interesting composers/producers of the NIN crew of that era and it's a shame that his time and work on Tapeworm got flushed. I love Trent, Maynard and all the other big players involved but I was in it for Lohner and Clouser.

The tarnish of the NIN & Tool legacy couldn't have bothered me less.

I'm sure logistics and contracts also played a role, of course. A minor one, i'd say.

Here's a few interesting bits from an Alternative Press Tapeworm interview from 99:
http://3rdeye.forumfree.it/?t=930560

Tapeworm: rumor or fact? Trent Reznor: Fact. The ever-present Tapeworm project. We've got some things done, and there are millions of tracks waiting for vocals from a few different people from Maynard [James Keenan] from Tool to Page [Hamilton' from Helmet; from Phil [Anselmo] from Pantera to myself. Danny [Lohner] and Charlie [Clouser] are the main musical force behind that.

..

Whose brainchild was it? Danny Lohner: I had these songs that I had started, and Charlie was gonna do his thing. The actual name probably came from Trent, but we were just trying to get something happening and wanted to do it with Trent.

...

How far back does this stuff go? Clouser: There's tons of shit all the way to when Manson was doing Antichrist Superstar, I think '95 or '96. That's kinda when we first moved into the studio. While Trent was involved with the Manson people, we would be generating song ideas.

...

Was anyone else involved? Lohner: Yeah, 'cause when we did the last tour, there was five of us: Trent, me, Charlie, and two other guys; Robin Finck and Chris Vrenna-and they've since left. We had hoped to involve those two guys, as well.

...

So is Trent actually playing on most of this stuff? Lohner: Well, he does the odd guitar here and there, and he's got vocal melodies, but he hasn't actually sung the words. Whether that means he uses his voice or gets someone from another band to come in and do it... Clouser: It could potentially provide Trent with a way of being creatively involved in writing and production without necessarily having to micromanage every aspect of it in the same way that he does with NIN. We may contribute various aspects to NIN songs, but it's very much under his guidance and subject to his review and tweakage. This might provide a way for him to not necessarily get in there with the tweezers.

Prettybrokenspiral
04-14-2015, 02:31 AM
Thank you, hobochic. It's been so long since I read some of those interviews about Tapeworm, I'd forgotten most of the information they contained

So Sheepdean's theory of there being only a small handful of Tapeworm stuff is shot. As of 2004, they had what appears to be a shitload of material they were working with. At least an album's worth, which corroborates Danny's claim in September 2003 that the album was ready for mixing.

Numerous times in those interviews, numerous people mention there are tons of Tapeworm demos floating around the studio. Tommy Victor, Phil Anselmo, Toni Halliday, Page Hamilton all confirmed to be involved in the process, with Danny and Charlie compiling material as far back as the Antichrist Superstar days some 20 years ago. Plus, they confirm that 'Vacant' was done by 2000 and was played live for the first time in 2001, and yet there are photos of Maynard in the studio recording vocals for Tapeworm in mid-2002.

True Detective should do their third season on this shit, it's such an unexplained mystery. All that fucking music, just sitting around on a hard drive somewhere. It makes me sick.

What really irritates me is the time that was wasted. Trent claimed in one of the interviews that he was working on a new NIN album in late-2000. That didn't show up for another four years. Didn't he start working on With Teeth in late-2003? Page Hamilton's solo album never materialized. Some of his Ghandi stuff ended up on Helmet's comeback record, but that wasn't until late-2004.

Seriously, what the fuck were these people doing between 2001-2004 that they couldn't just finish the Tapeworm stuff. It honest to god sounds like Maynard was in the studio working on it more than Trent was, but in the end, the democracy band is vetoed by Trent? It just doesn't make sense. You don't work on something for a decade and then just up and decide "Nope, not good enough, time to make that safe NIN record I've been putting off for the last five years."

I love you, Trent. But fuck you for deciding for your fans and your fellow partners in Tapeworm what should be heard or never heard at all. Totally defeats the concept of what Tapeworm was supposed to be. And is, somewhere.

http://www.aintnoright.org/images/smilies/noangry.gif

WorzelG
04-14-2015, 02:52 AM
Seriously, what the fuck were these people doing between 2001-2004 that they couldn't just finish the Tapeworm stuff. It honest to god sounds like Maynard was in the studio working on it more than Trent was, but in the end, the democracy band is vetoed by Trent? It just doesn't make sense. You don't work on something for a decade and then just up and decide "Nope, not good enough, time to make that safe NIN record I've been putting off for the last five years."

I love you, Trent. But fuck you for deciding for your fans and your fellow partners in Tapeworm what should be heard or never heard at all. Totally defeats the concept of what Tapeworm was supposed to be. And is, somewhere.

http://www.aintnoright.org/images/smilies/noangry.gif
Dont forget the whole John Malm court case around that time, then disbanding all the convoluted nothing records companies, didn't he say that ended up like a divorce? Tapeworm was recorded in that studio that was caught up in that nonsense, also didn't he say his involvement with Doom 3 was scuppered because of management issues? (actually this upset me far far more than the tapeworm stuff).

It probably would have been ok if recorded in someone else's studio

m15a
04-14-2015, 03:18 AM
I love you, Trent. But fuck you for deciding for your fans and your fellow partners in Tapeworm what should be heard or never heard at all. Totally defeats the concept of what Tapeworm was supposed to be. And is, somewhere.

I don't think any of us have the whole behind-the-scenes story of what went on, so maybe Trent was a jerk to his colleagues. (Personally, I wouldn't be surprised.) But as far as the fans are concerned, I don't remember Tapeworm ever collecting donations from fans or claiming to be a charitable organization (for fans starving for awesome music?), so I don't see how it's the fans' right to hear the music.

fillow
04-14-2015, 04:07 AM
There were rumors that Danny took some of his TW music to The Damning Well and Renholder solo tracks from Underworld score. Maynard could've easily use some more of his stuff for Puscifer, it didn't necessarily have to be co-written by Trent. Maynard would be reluctant to admit any of his songs' origins anyway. Trent gave some music to Saul Williams and who knows what else was reworked into different projects.
This horse is dead enough for now, leave it alone.

ChipRock
04-14-2015, 04:07 AM
Never mind all that Tapeworm stuff - I'm sad that nothing more came of Trent's work with Zach de la Rocha. We Want It All was a fantastic tune. More of that would have been great. Maybe one day...?

Volband
04-14-2015, 06:17 AM
You already said that comparing them is unfair, so why do you keep trying to do it?



"Ghosts doesn't compare to [insert previous instrumental here]" is not an objective opinion, hence why I said "says you".



You're acting like Ghosts was just a bunch of demo tracks that Trent was too lazy to add lyrics to. That clearly wasn't the case.



You JUST talked about how ridiculous it is to compare them to "finished tracks with vocals", and then you go and do it anyway.
Is this reddit? This must be reddit, because you make the most karma-friendly posts by taking sentences out of context, so your replies seem witty and smart.

My whole point is that you can't compare Ghosts to those songs, and the reason I compared it to those songs was to show how ridiculous it is. You can agree that comparing them is pointless/impossible, and then there is no need to fish further in my sentences, or you don't agree with it, I make an example (and obviously unfair) comparison for you where you can see how Ghosts just falls flat on its' face, and THEN you can agree that comparing it to them is pointless. Or, you still don't agree, and firmly believe Ghosts tracks are comparable with Even Deeper, Wish, Head Like A Hole, etc.

And yes, I'm well aware that I gave you like 4-5 easy pickings, which you can once again quote out of context, but it says a lot, when the only defense someone can come up with regarding the "Ghosts are probably better, than the Tapeworm songs" statement is derailing all of this into a grammar war or something.

(I could also write twice as much, explaining how I'm talking about two completely different "can't compares", but you either understood it all along, or just simply don't want to, so either way, it would be pointless)

Repeatedly this just feels like "I don't respect instrumentals".


It's fine, 100% fine, with someone not liking Ghosts, it's not for everyone - nor is Broken! (disclaimer: or not liking as much). But there's this constant attitude of anyone who prefers Ghosts must be WRONG. They're full pieces. They're not background music. They're not just outtakes from a jam session. You may not like them in that guise but hey - I don't like Mantra, which was literally the output of a jam session.
The funniest thing to me is that Trent would probably laugh his ass off reading this, because he himself is not over the stars about Ghosts. I'm sure he is very happy he did it, because it must've been a blast recording it, and it had dozens of firsts to him, which is always fun. But this whole Ghosts vs. the world reminds me of die-hard metal fans, who would straight out murder you, if you'd call their favorite band's album from 1980' crap, even if the band itself admitted it was terrible, and they half-assed half of their songs, because they lied to the record label - yes, real example.

Someone mentioned that the good tracks on Ghosts are veeeery goood, but if it has 36/38, you have to rate them all if we are rating the whole album.

I think I respect instrumental tracks, what I don't respect is giving god tier status to such hastily made, large quantity songs. Even The Fragile gets shit for its' fillers, and those fillers had painstaking work invested into them, I wouldn't be surprised if by the time Trent finished a filler for TF (which in his mind was not a filler), 20% of Ghosts was done.

Volband
04-14-2015, 06:30 AM
At best, Tapeworm is worse than With Teeth. Isn't that the end of the discussion? With Teeth has enough filler on it, does anyone really want to hear the songs that were deemed worse than that?

(I feel dirty because it sort of sounds like I'm agreeing with Bill, but as usual he kept talking and made an ass of himself, so I'm probably fine.)
Man, the fucking With Teeth hate is still real. How are those songs filler? Don't tell me Getting Smaller/The Collector/whateverelseyouconsidefiller are Complication/The Frail/Pilgrimage. I can understand how some people felt let down by that record, expecting some grandiose, masterfully componed new era TDS/TF, but calling those songs filler is just harsh.

Even our one and only Bill dissed commercialized songs, which were probably aimed at THTF and Only.

eversonpoe
04-14-2015, 08:50 AM
Man, the fucking With Teeth hate is still real. How are those songs filler? Don't tell me Getting Smaller/The Collector/whateverelseyouconsidefiller are Complication/The Frail/Pilgrimage. I can understand how some people felt let down by that record, expecting some grandiose, masterfully componed new era TDS/TF, but calling those songs filler is just harsh.

Even our one and only Bill dissed commercialized songs, which were probably aimed at THTF and Only.

(disclaimer: i love with teeth and every song on it except THTF & only. i also love every song on the fragile. every. single. one.)

how can you call songs like complication, the frail, or pilgrimage filler? to me, they are some of the most compelling tracks on the left side of the fragile. complication has an energy that no other song on the fragile brings. the frail is the perfect companion piece to the wretched, and it doesn't have the (slightly ridiculous, over-stylized imagery of the) lyrics. pilgrimage is a song that i've NEVER understood the distaste for...it's so cinematic and immersive! it used to scare me because i thought some terrifying army was marching toward me, ready to bring me down to hell or something (to be fair, i was 12 in 1999).
the only song that i feel is better/more compelling than those on Left is La Mer, which is also (essentially) instrumental.

once again, this is all SUBJECTIVE opinion. so i've technically answered my own question. you called those songs filler because, to you, they are not as emotionally compelling. i don't know if it's a lack of lyrics or that you don't like the music in them or some combination of the two, but i can say that you are allowed to feel that way, because you are a different person than me.

just like me and sheepdean are allowed to feel that Ghosts I-IV is some of the best work that trent has done. not only as a whole package, but also when you take individual songs from it. is it hard to keep track of the names of the songs? yes, but not because they're instrumental; it's because they're simply numbered 1-36. i guarantee that if those songs had names, more people would be able to remember/identify some of their favorites, and possibly would have been more open to them in general.

there's a lot of stupid discussion going on in here instead of intelligent discourse. stop picking apart other people's arguments (i'm talking to both sides of the issue here), because it doesn't go anywhere. by all means, share opinions and disagree with things, but stop being so fussy toward each other.

EndlessLoveless
04-14-2015, 10:14 AM
I dont think the word 'filler' exists in the nin catalog. I hate when it is used. TR is very obviously someone who goes through great lengths and spends a lot of time obsessing over every single detail about a song, whats included/final track listings/etc..... isnt the definition of filler being a track that literally FILLS time and serves no other purpose than to make an album longer? What song is filler? Just because its instrumental doesnt mean its filler. The only tracks that should be considered 'filler' in the entire nin discography would be the silence tracks from 'gave up' to 'physical'. Every single song served a purpose at one point in time. Just because they are universally disliked songs, (to some people), or 'boring' songs, (to some people), doesnt mean they are filler. NIN has no filler. Thats why NIN is my favorite band. Every single song has a redeeming value. Please give an example of 'nin filler', and i bet someone will say they love that song or at the very least, they have appreciation for the track. If it was truly filler, it wouldnt have made the cut on the final tracklisting.

BenAkenobi
04-14-2015, 10:45 AM
... Please give an example of 'nin filler', and i bet someone will say they love that song or at the very least, they have appreciation for the track. If it was truly filler, it wouldnt have made the cut on the final tracklisting.
How about Appendage - filler on cassette version of Fragile?

WorzelG
04-14-2015, 10:53 AM
How about Appendage - filler on cassette version of Fragile?
that's great though - even though it is the exact definition of the word 'filler'

billpulsipher
04-14-2015, 10:59 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btwzp9nnsbY

32 minutes, 45 seconds into the vid, Phil talks about Tapeworm and how he laid down vocals for 3 songs and has no clue what the fuck happened to it after that......

EndlessLoveless
04-14-2015, 11:07 AM
How about Appendage - filler on cassette version of Fragile?

Appendage rules. My biggest reason for wanting the fragile deluxe is for a high quality version of this. But yes, i guess i stand corrected. Appendage IS filler, used to stretch out a side of a cassette. But its not filler in the sense of it being a kind of, shitty, throwaway song put on the "true" verson of the album, to kill time.

True version being the CD version, right? I believe he"s said that. (even though i like the vinyl version better)

Khrz
04-14-2015, 11:17 AM
I never quite liked appendage, but that's probably because when I tried to include it in The Fragile, the terrible sound quality threw me off instantly, so I simply never got used to have it being part of the flow, neither did I listen to it that much...
On the other hand, The Frail is one of my favorite tracks ever. This delicate, hesitantly hopeful melody gets me every time.

jmtd
04-14-2015, 12:30 PM
Pipe dream: the fragile deluxe will debut as a record store day exclusive this Saturday, unannounced.

Volband
04-14-2015, 12:56 PM
(disclaimer: i love with teeth and every song on it except THTF & only. i also love every song on the fragile. every. single. one.)

how can you call songs like complication, the frail, or pilgrimage filler? to me, they are some of the most compelling tracks on the left side of the fragile. complication has an energy that no other song on the fragile brings. the frail is the perfect companion piece to the wretched, and it doesn't have the (slightly ridiculous, over-stylized imagery of the) lyrics. pilgrimage is a song that i've NEVER understood the distaste for...it's so cinematic and immersive! it used to scare me because i thought some terrifying army was marching toward me, ready to bring me down to hell or something (to be fair, i was 12 in 1999).
the only song that i feel is better/more compelling than those on Left is La Mer, which is also (essentially) instrumental.

once again, this is all SUBJECTIVE opinion. so i've technically answered my own question. you called those songs filler because, to you, they are not as emotionally compelling. i don't know if it's a lack of lyrics or that you don't like the music in them or some combination of the two, but i can say that you are allowed to feel that way, because you are a different person than me.
Actually, I have no stance on the debate about The Fragile and whether it has fillers or not, I love the record as it is, and the only song I can't get behind is Pilgrimage, not because I question it's place on the record, but simply because it does not resonate with me at all. I love all the noise Trent had made in his career, I drool over evry part of the Tetsuo theme, but Pilgrimage is just meh for me.

I identified those songs as fillers, because whenever The Fragile is discussed, one side calls those songs fillers, so for the sake of making an example, I went with that view, even though I do not agree (nor disagree, I understand both sides) with it myself, because my point was that With Teeth has no fillers, and imo calling any song on With Teeth a filler is so much more rude than calling a bridge instrumental track on TF.

Did I write the same damn thing in two paragraphs? I most certainly did! I think I'm getting paranoid of being quoted out of context, haha.

sheepdean
04-14-2015, 01:08 PM
Pipe dream: the fragile deluxe will debut as a record store day exclusive this Saturday, unannounced.
Sorry but the leaks always happen a couple of months early as the pressing plant staff tell everyone :P

howdidislipinto
04-14-2015, 01:25 PM
Man, the fucking With Teeth hate is still real. How are those songs filler? Don't tell me Getting Smaller/The Collector/whateverelseyouconsidefiller are Complication/The Frail/Pilgrimage. I can understand how some people felt let down by that record, expecting some grandiose, masterfully componed new era TDS/TF, but calling those songs filler is just harsh.

Even our one and only Bill dissed commercialized songs, which were probably aimed at THTF and Only.

This is fantastic, because those WT songs are definitely ones that I would put in the filler category, and I would NEVER put those Fragile tracks in the filler category (for many of the reasons eversonpoe covered). We're all such beautiful unique snowflakes!

For the record, I loved WT when it came out -- it just has the honor of being the only NIN record that didn't grow on me with time. In fact, it's the first NIN record where my opinion only ever lessens. If I listen to it, I have to trim out tracks and make it an EP of sorts. I dunno. I think some tracks are just too straightforward and don't have the buried details where years later you can still hear new things. Plus. guitar-cock-rock is my least favorite form of NIN, and WT just has too much of that. I still maintain that it would've been amazing if out of nowhere Trent came back from the hiatus with Year Zero -- THAT would've been a fucking statement.

All The Love In The World and Beside You In Time are still two of NIN's best songs ever, though.

Deepvoid
04-14-2015, 03:29 PM
There are some killer tracks on With Teeth but you do get the impression that he played it safe.
Most of the choruses on that album pack a punch but it has in my book the worst one of them all with the title-song. I'm still trying to figure out what went through his mind.
Like when they listened to the first mix of it, I'm having a hard time believing everyone sitting around the mixing board and be like "Holy crap that sounds fucking awesome!".
No it doesn't.

Anyways, I can't believe you guys went through so many posts on the subject that his Tapeworm. I guess it's an inevitable cycle.
At least it made me feel like I was 20 again.

billpulsipher
04-14-2015, 03:38 PM
Its 2015 and we are talking about Tapeworm....Things are awfully slow in NIN land these days....

and in my humble opinion, YZ is the best/boldest artistic statement he has made post Fragile....

Khrz
04-14-2015, 03:48 PM
and in my humble opinion, YZ is the best/boldest artistic statement he has made post Fragile....

I admit, I lol'd.

cahernandez
04-14-2015, 03:58 PM
Its 2015 and we are talking about Tapeworm....Things are awfully slow in NIN land these days....

and in my humble opinion, YZ is the best/boldest artistic statement he has made post Fragile....

I actually agree here...not necessarily with "best" but definitely with "bold". Either YZ or The Social Network for the boldest statement after The Fragile. What do you guys think?

avesjohn
04-14-2015, 04:06 PM
On the subject of a completely different era of Trent's music, here's my random NIN thought: am I the only one who's reminded of the aliens in Mars Attacks! ("ack-ack!") by the background noises in "Wish", particularly during the bridge?

FernandoDante
04-14-2015, 04:33 PM
Seriously, what the fuck were these people doing between 2001-2004 that they couldn't just finish the Tapeworm stuff.
Wasn't Trent going sober around that time?


I actually agree here...not necessarily with "best" but definitely with "bold". Either YZ or The Social Network for the boldest statement after The Fragile. What do you guys think?
Best since TDS.


And my guess is that the Tapeworm material was about as good or slightly inferior to the first Puscifer album.

Dr Channard
04-14-2015, 04:39 PM
Iíve always looked at With Teeth as comprehensive work, yet having a feel all its own. Many of the previously established nin themes are here, introspective, just delivered less bleak and more bravado. Musically mostly more accessible to the average listener. Strong hooks, great vocal work, it sounds like a band instead of a guy sitting behind a synthesizer. NIN was due for a great rock album and With Teeth was a perfect fit. If you like getting your rock-on once in a while, whatís not to like here?


I actually agree here...not necessarily with "best" but definitely with "bold". Either YZ or The Social Network for the boldest statement after The Fragile. What do you guys think?

Yeah, Trent had a big vision for YZ. Too bad things didnít work out the way he planed, the ceiling could have been much higher. It would have been interesting to see.

cahernandez
04-14-2015, 05:22 PM
I’ve always looked at With Teeth as comprehensive work, yet having a feel all its own. Many of the previously established nin themes are here, introspective, just delivered less bleak and more bravado. Musically mostly more accessible to the average listener. Strong hooks, great vocal work, it sounds like a band instead of a guy sitting behind a synthesizer. NIN was due for a great rock album and With Teeth was a perfect fit. If you like getting your rock-on once in a while, what’s not to like here?



Yeah, Trent had a big vision for YZ. Too bad things didn’t work out the way he planed, the ceiling could have been much higher. It would have been interesting to see.

For me With Teeth is the best NIN album, for the things you list there. That's why I made the difference between "bold" and "best".

eversonpoe
04-14-2015, 05:57 PM
There are some killer tracks on With Teeth but you do get the impression that he played it safe.
Most of the choruses on that album pack a punch but it has in my book the worst one of them all with the title-song. I'm still trying to figure out what went through his mind.
Like when they listened to the first mix of it, I'm having a hard time believing everyone sitting around the mixing board and be like "Holy crap that sounds fucking awesome!".
No it doesn't.

it's funny, i feel like ALL of this should be being discussed in the Controversial NIN Opinions thread...oh well!

anyway, i really don't understand the hate "With Teeth" (the song) gets. it's got such a unique feel, a killer bassline, super weird drumming, and it was one of the first songs, if not the first song where trent did the insanely quiet bridge back into a super loud explosion of awesomeness. it doesn't even bother me the way he sings "a-with-a-teeth-uh" because it WORKS in the context of the song. :: shrug ::

seasonsinthesky
04-14-2015, 06:42 PM
i really don't understand the hate "With Teeth" (the song) gets. ... it was one of the first songs, if not the first song where trent did the insanely quiet bridge back into a super loud explosion of awesomeness.

c'mon now, "Suck" and "Mr. Self Destruct" and "The Day the World Went Away" and "The Big Come Down" and "10 Miles High" and "Starfuckers, Inc." had been out for years at that point (with the first two in particular using the same exact technique to the letter!). it was already a trope, like the sudden cutoff ending.

(it would later be used on "The Four of Us Are Dying" and "Demon Seed" and "The Good Soldier" and "Various Methods of Escape" though i grant a lot of these examples have some alternate methodologies compared to the fairly straightforward cuts of WT that basically make it sound like a whole other song shoved in the middle.)

BenAkenobi
04-15-2015, 04:11 AM
I drool over evry part of the Tetsuo theme, but Pilgrimage is just meh for me...

I know that tastes differ, but this quote literally hurts to read.

Khrz
04-15-2015, 04:37 AM
That's a bit like comparing Somewhat Damaged and The Great Destroyer in my opinion, Volband...

jmtd
04-15-2015, 04:41 AM
the insanely quiet bridge back into a super loud explosion of awesomeness.

that's pretty much the only reason I don't listen to it much. I turn up the pre-bridge bit to hear the intricacies, and then the post-bridge bit blows my eardrums. I might try compressing it a bit and seeing if I can tolerate it more that way.

EndlessLoveless
04-15-2015, 07:41 AM
Yes, all the love..., love is...., the line...., besides you...., right where... and home=some of nins best songs. Just realizing now those are some long song names. Looking back now, WT still has some really really strong songs. Some of his best. And at the time, with all the build up, i thought it was the best. But looking back now, i really never listen to the collecter or getting smaller. I still dont consider them filler. They each have at least one really good part in them. (The collecter is the chorus and outro, and getting smaller is the breakdown with that ambient noise fading in into the final jam)

I still like the album version of THTF too.

eversonpoe
04-15-2015, 09:30 AM
c'mon now, "Suck" and "Mr. Self Destruct" and "The Day the World Went Away" and "The Big Come Down" and "10 Miles High" and "Starfuckers, Inc." had been out for years at that point (with the first two in particular using the same exact technique to the letter!). it was already a trope, like the sudden cutoff ending.

(it would later be used on "The Four of Us Are Dying" and "Demon Seed" and "The Good Soldier" and "Various Methods of Escape" though i grant a lot of these examples have some alternate methodologies compared to the fairly straightforward cuts of WT that basically make it sound like a whole other song shoved in the middle.)

shit, you're right. i guess the big difference between those earlier examples and WT is the EXTREME volume difference, and the fact that there's no build-up back into the loud part. it literally just DROPS down, and then EXPLODES back up in volume/intensity.

Halo Infinity
04-15-2015, 11:20 AM
c'mon now, "Suck" and "Mr. Self Destruct" and "The Day the World Went Away" and "The Big Come Down" and "10 Miles High" and "Starfuckers, Inc." had been out for years at that point (with the first two in particular using the same exact technique to the letter!). it was already a trope, like the sudden cutoff ending.
I also thought that Gave Up could be included in that list. That part of With Teeth also reminded me of Gave Up when I first listened to it, and it still does.


(it would later be used on "The Four of Us Are Dying" and "Demon Seed" and "The Good Soldier" and "Various Methods of Escape" though i grant a lot of these examples have some alternate methodologies compared to the fairly straightforward cuts of WT that basically make it sound like a whole other song shoved in the middle.)
That's exactly why all of those songs became instant favorites of mine, and why I've enjoyed those parts just as much in the live versions, or even more depending on the song, as I actually prefer the live version of With Teeth just a little bit more. It certainly doesn't stop me from appreciating the studio versions for what they are and as they are though.

Hazekiah
04-15-2015, 06:53 PM
Back on the subject of Tapeworm for a moment, it's worth noting that some of Tommy Victor's contributions to the project wound up on Antichrist Superstar.

Aside from "Vacant" that's pretty much all we know FOR SURE has actually surfaced anywhere, right?


Therapy? are awesome. You should go post that story on their website right now. They'd die laughing, too

I actually DID tell it to them!

They played Chicago in 2001 for Shameless and I hung out with them till about 5 a.m. afterward, drinking Chartreuse and popping four-leaf clover green ecstasy. It was pretty awesome! They got a big kick out of the story...but no one died, thankfully.

I've been registered at their site since forever, btw.

:)

Harry Seaward
04-15-2015, 06:58 PM
Aside from "Vacant" that's pretty much all we know FOR SURE has actually surfaced anywhere, right?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYFdTAtKQ5Q

Potions "Deliverance mix" (M. Keenan, T. Reznor, M. Mitchell)

Ok. Let's use an APC album as an example. eMOTIVe. APC did a song called "Imagine." If you view the credits for the song you'll find various bits of info. Generally speaking the writers name appears in parenthesis next to the track. The performer info may or may not be listed in the album credits. If you see performer info it may be broken down to instruments. For example... "Billy Howerdel - Guitars and Back-up Vocals. Josh Freese - Drums and percussion, etc... Or it may be a given that the people who performed on this project/album/track are the band in question. So it will just say "B Howerdel - guitars, Josh Freese - drums, M J Keenan - vocals, etc... But Writing credits are different. Next to "Imagine" you'll see the name John Lennon. Because he wrote the song. You may want to sit down for the next bit. Ready? John Lennon didn't perform or sing or play on the APC version of "Imagine." He didn't produce it, direct it, co-produce it, or grab us Latte's during the recording of it. Why? Because he's dead. he just wrote it. And we performed a version of it. If you visit the Project Credits of this site now, you'll start to see what we mean. Hope that helps.

2 conclude if i may. If u HATE Potions, hate US not Trent. We wrote it together, but PUSCIFER produced it. It was my wedding present 2 him.

sheepdean
04-15-2015, 07:06 PM
Back on the subject of Tapeworm for a moment, it's worth noting that some of Tommy Victor's contributions to the project wound up on Antichrist Superstar.

Aside from "Vacant" that's pretty much all we know FOR SURE has actually surfaced anywhere, right?

In addition to Potions, Convict Colony by Saul Williams has the drums and Danny has implied that some TW ended up on score work.

Volband
04-16-2015, 07:36 AM
This is fantastic, because those WT songs are definitely ones that I would put in the filler category, and I would NEVER put those Fragile tracks in the filler category (for many of the reasons @eversonpoe (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=588) covered). We're all such beautiful unique snowflakes!
This has to be a mockery. THTF as filler?! That song is commercially the most well-perceived song of the post TF NIN era and you can call it shit, sell-out, worst NIN song ever, anything but filler. A filler track is something that's put together for the sake of having +1 song on the album. THTF is exactly the like of song which gets filler tracks around it.

Personally I not only think With Teeth is the best record from Trent, but it pretty much ensured NIN will live on. I did not have the With teeth experience first-hand back in 2005, but I know the circumstances of it's arrival. TF could not live up to the hype commercially and even some fans shat on it for starfuckers, or the - in their eye - fillers. Trent also disappeared and 6 fucking years passed (well, less if you count it from the end of the last Fragility show, but I heard he was in a pretty shitty shape during that tour), there was no way he could live off by the fans he got with TDS, he had to catch the new generation's attention. I mean, I was probably still sucking at something when Woodstock happened, haha.

To me it's the most accessible record from NIN, while still maintaining it's... NINness? It's just a collection of a bunch of good NIN tracks. No story to tell, no intermezzo, no "if you put this in for 2 hours and lay back, you will get the whole experience!", nope. Here's a great track. And here's another. And another... It still has the angst, the desperation, the longing for something/someone, the "dancyness", the lyrics (if you like Trent's lyrics, which I do). The only thing it's missing are the noises I guess, I love when he goes nuts with distortions and making 200 instruments playing at once.
I don't mind the commercialized feel either, I love that Trent wasn't a pussy (yes, in other's eye he was exactly being one) and had a reality check. Yeah, the guys and girls in fishnet were probably protesting for a TDS part 2, and it was totally not cool for them that Trent made THTF, not to mention he had "Love" in one of his track's name, which is totally not cool. Trent always had a great grip on how things have been changing in music and he managed to deliver every time. Does the original PHM sounds kinda funny today? It surely is, but I'm sure our parents rocked their pants to those songs, because it was THE shit at the time. Would anyone at 1995 thought "man, this guy will totally release an electronic-heavy album one day with some sick beats!"? I doubt it.
Back to THTF a bit more; it's like the new Starfuckers, except it actually sticked in the setlists. I'm really curious about his view on Starfuckers, because it shares a lot with THTF (still actual, great live track, both of them seems to be liked from the newer NINs fan), yet it is absolutely neglected. What made him think "man, fuck this song."

Anyway, if there's even the slightest argument whether Complication or The Hand That Feeds is more closer to the filler category, there is absolutely zero reason to even have that argument, because this shows not mere clash in opinions, but two whole different worlds.


I know that tastes differ, but this quote literally hurts to read.

That's a bit like comparing Somewhat Damaged and The Great Destroyer in my opinion, @Volband (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=3656)...
Wait, what did I say? I don't even get the example, because I wouldn't bat an eye if someone would pick one of those songs over another. I love both of them, TGD only sucks if you listen to it with shitty earphones.

So many landmines here!


it's funny, i feel like ALL of this should be being discussed in the Controversial NIN Opinions thread...oh well!

anyway, i really don't understand the hate "With Teeth" (the song) gets. it's got such a unique feel, a killer bassline, super weird drumming, and it was one of the first songs, if not the first song where trent did the insanely quiet bridge back into a super loud explosion of awesomeness. it doesn't even bother me the way he sings "a-with-a-teeth-uh" because it WORKS in the context of the song. :: shrug ::
Hah, WIth Teeth (song) used to be my most hated NIN song ever, I constantly dissed it here on ETS. But at a certain period in my life it really resonated with me, so I'm cool with it now. Not a great fan, but definitely not hiding from friends anymore. :D

BenAkenobi
04-16-2015, 10:24 AM
... not to mention he had "Love" in one of his track's name, which is totally not cool...

Two tracks!

and I apologize for saying a sentence hurts to read, it's all subjective. But at the same time i like to be able to point to a nin track and say "boo-hoo", i take no shame in that. my feeling towards "the bullet man" is irrational, the very idea that Trent would be a composer for japanese b-movie is unbelievable. maybe later i'll come in terms with it, maybe in afterlife, but not now.

Volband
04-16-2015, 10:36 AM
Two tracks!

and I apologize for saying a sentence hurts to read, it's all subjective. But at the same time i like to be able to point to a nin track and say "boo-hoo", i take no shame in that. my feeling towards "the bullet man" is irrational, the very idea that Trent would be a composer for japanese b-movie is unbelievable. maybe later i'll come in terms with it, maybe in afterlife, but not now.
I'm fine with you loving Pilgrimage, or hating on the Tetsuo track, to every non NIN lover, both of those tracks are awful, unlistenable piece of shits anyway.

And um, I liked that movie. Imo the first one was even more fucked up, and if you are not into black/white movies, you'd never have the chance to experience Tetsuo otherwise. To this day I'M not entirely sure what the fuck I watched, but hey, it was cool!

BRoswell
04-16-2015, 10:59 AM
the very idea that Trent would be a composer for japanese b-movie is unbelievable.

"Composer" is a bit of a stretch. As far as I know, he was only asked to contribute a single track to the film. It wasn't like the work he and Atticus have done for David Fincher. Also, say what you will about them, but the Tetsuo films have quite the cult following, and Trent is obviously a big fan of them, so creating an end credits track for one of them does make sense.

Also also, "Theme For..." is probably one of my favorite tracks Trent has ever done. It's beautiful, haunting, and terrifying.

howdidislipinto
04-16-2015, 11:29 AM
This has to be a mockery. THTF as filler?! That song is commercially the most well-perceived song of the post TF NIN era and you can call it shit, sell-out, worst NIN song ever, anything but filler. A filler track is something that's put together for the sake of having +1 song on the album. THTF is exactly the like of song which gets filler tracks around it.

I was actually talking about The Collector/Getting Smaller (and what the hell, throw Love Is Not Enough and the title track on the list), as those are the songs the person I was responded to listed as potential filler. And I stand by that. The definition of filler is the songs you'd be fine with skipping on a record, and those definitely qualify. THTF is fine, I might skip it on the record but I NEVER get tired of it live, it always works for me, like HLAH.

And while I think you make some interesting points, as I mentioned, my dislike of With Teeth has nothing to do with Fragile-like expectations -- I loved the album at the time. It just has the exact opposite affect that every other NIN record has ever had on me... I find it less interesting as time goes on, instead of MORE interesting.

It doesn't hurt that NIN's post-With Teeth albums have only gotten better and better. With Teeth just sounds the most "of its time" and irrelevant (and honestly, "safe") to me. I don't even mean "safe" as in mainstream, because I LOVE Trent's pop sensibilities -- just safe as in unchallenging for all involved.

EndlessLoveless
04-16-2015, 12:05 PM
If only for the quality of the final 3 tracks and them blending together, With Teeth is essential NIN listening. Or even All the love in the world being track 1. I remember being shocked that thats how the new NIN album started. It was awesome. I have very fond memories of the build up to that album and finally hearing it. It may skew my opinion of it a little.

howdidislipinto
04-16-2015, 12:10 PM
If only for the quality of the final 3 tracks and them blending together, With Teeth is essential NIN listening. Or even All the love in the world being track 1. I remember being shocked that thats how the new NIN album started. It was awesome. I have very fond memories of the build up to that album and finally hearing it. It may skew my opinion of it a little.

I agree that the beginning and the trilogy at the end are BY FAR the best parts of With Teeth, and up there with the very best NIN moments. But it should be pointed out that the way you phrased that still sort of implies that between that great beginning and end, there's some filler.

BenAkenobi
04-16-2015, 12:54 PM
I'm fine with you loving Pilgrimage...

It's not about you! It's about trying to comprehend other people's appreciation of "Theme...", which i don't hate, hate is a wrong word.
It's not about "if you are not into black/white movies" either. It's about feeling embarrassment for Trent, same as many felt at last Grammy show.
OK, let's move on :)

BRoswell
04-16-2015, 01:07 PM
It's about feeling embarrassment for Trent, same as many felt at last Grammy show.

What's embarrassing about it? Like I said, the film itself isn't for everyone, but the track is solid in my opinion, and a great precursor to the score work that he and Atticus would start doing just a short time later.

seasonsinthesky
04-16-2015, 03:21 PM
Also also, "Theme For..." is probably one of my favorite tracks Trent has ever done. It's beautiful, haunting, and terrifying.

same. ain't gonna stand for no Theme bashing around here! same with "Pilgrimage!" they are the ultimate grower songs from the whole catalog.

now, if you wanna bash "Underneath It All..."

jmtd
04-16-2015, 03:23 PM
From the man himself:

"twelve good punches in the face -- no fillers, no instrumentals, just straight to the point"

QED

EndlessLoveless
04-16-2015, 03:29 PM
I agree that the beginning and the trilogy at the end are BY FAR the best parts of With Teeth, and up there with the very best NIN moments. But it should be pointed out that the way you phrased that still sort of implies that between that great beginning and end, there's some filler.

I wouldnt say filler, but i def dont listen to the collecter or getting smaller that much. But i still appreciate them for what they are, they have their good moments.
Also, hearing songs live change them for me sometimes. The collecter sounds WAY better live. Cant remember getting smaller live.....if theyve even played it live besides that rehearsal audio. (or even maybe not on that, cant remember)

Always wished the line begins to blur was with that rehearsal audio. Still my fav NIN song, right in front of the day the world went away and all that could have been.

Dr Channard
04-16-2015, 04:03 PM
Always wished the line begins to blur was with that rehearsal audio. Still my fav NIN song, right in front of the day the world went away and all that could have been.

The Line Begins to Blur is a personal favorite in the live incarnation. Wish it had been worked in with more shows over the years.

eversonpoe
04-16-2015, 04:46 PM
same. ain't gonna stand for no Theme bashing around here! same with "Pilgrimage!" they are the ultimate grower songs from the whole catalog.

now, if you wanna bash "Underneath It All..."

oh, man...i LOVE underneath it all. i still think it's one of the most unique songs i've ever heard. part of why we named our podcast after it ;)

Krazy
04-16-2015, 06:06 PM
Whoever thinks this song is filler should put down the crack pipe...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Knv6qSiP46g


IMO Pilgrimmage is pretty much the definition of filler- pretty much an instrumental, that really goes nowhere. It's really not an intro (either at the beginning of an album like Pinion, or somewhere else like The Frail compliments The Wretched) or an outro.

Carry on.

howdidislipinto
04-16-2015, 09:19 PM
From the man himself:

"twelve good punches in the face -- no fillers, no instrumentals, just straight to the point"

QED

Well that's proof right there that at least ONE song is filler. :P

WHICH ONE, GUYS? WHICH ONE?!?!

Krazy
04-16-2015, 09:38 PM
"Lonely Since She Walked Out of My Life"

TR is obviously a triskaidekaphobian.

botley
04-16-2015, 10:47 PM
Cant remember getting smaller live.....if theyve even played it live besides that rehearsal audio. (or even maybe not on that, cant remember)
Yup, quite a few times on the club tour in 2005 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dk_qJYdm3o) and also a handful of times in winter 2006:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TafwMNqEa0Q

Love Alessandro's bass stance on the drum riser, there. Plus they busted it out twice in 2008, I think, but Robin's guitar sounded like total barf. He isn't even playing in the right key on the existing recording of the Dallas show, spends the whole tune an entire semitone away from the rest of the band. Just awful. They never played it again after that.

This is the best version... JOSH FUCKING FREESE:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYmBu_4NYH0

m15a
04-16-2015, 11:58 PM
Well that's proof right there that at least ONE song is filler. :P

WHICH ONE, GUYS? WHICH ONE?!?!

Twelve tracks are punches in the face. RWIB is a punch in the heart. :p

(Alternatives: With Teeth is a punch in the teeth, THTF is a bite to the hand, . . . )

Jon
04-17-2015, 12:44 AM
Well that's proof right there that at least ONE song is filler. :P

WHICH ONE, GUYS? WHICH ONE?!?!

The automatic can-opener/blender song *ducks*

(Though, it sounds "chunkier" in the rehearsal version).

eversonpoe
04-17-2015, 09:25 AM
Whoever thinks this song is filler should put down the crack pipe...

IMO Pilgrimmage is pretty much the definition of filler- pretty much an instrumental, that really goes nowhere. It's really not an intro (either at the beginning of an album like Pinion, or somewhere else like The Frail compliments The Wretched) or an outro.

Carry on.

totally agree with your first statement.

but your second statement essentially asserts that a standalone instrumental song that isn't a companion piece to another song is automatically filler. that's confusing to me.

Krazy
04-17-2015, 12:23 PM
but your second statement essentially asserts that a standalone instrumental song that isn't a companion piece to another song is automatically filler. that's confusing to me.

I don't feel that way about standalone instrumentals at all. Just its a short March/chanting song that I think is garbage. Musically there isn't much there IMO. For instance I like A Warm Place, despite it being pretty much a Bowie song, for the music. I can listen to that without going through all of TDS.

To to each their own I guess. Just trying to explain why a lot of people think there's some filler songs on TF.

EndlessLoveless
04-17-2015, 04:47 PM
Well that's proof right there that at least ONE song is filler. :P

WHICH ONE, GUYS? WHICH ONE?!?!

Track 48 on broken

sick among the pure
04-17-2015, 05:07 PM
ITT: We are owed everything, right here right now. Also every song TR ever worked on is simultaneously the best ever, and sucks major ass and should never have been released.

Sometimes I'm surprised Trent talked to us at all, NIN fans are assholes ​sometimes.

Khrz
04-17-2015, 05:48 PM
Track 48 on broken

I like it, but it lingers on too long by one second...

sheepdean
04-17-2015, 06:37 PM
Track 48 on broken
If we ever get a broken remaster, I want a 11.1 surround mix of those tracks

Volband
04-17-2015, 08:09 PM
I actually like Underneath It All, and I consider it as the ending of The Fragile. Ripe (with decay) is more like an outro. The Fragile would be stacked, even if we took out some songs; it's not an easy record to digest because it is all over the place, since the pacing is the result of some next level thinking, especially CD2.

And I've never cringed from the Tetsuo theme, and I'm not sure what would be so strange about that song? Trent went apeshit on HIS or at the end of The Becoming, or with TGD, he sang he's gonna come all over your face, ha named one of his songs HYPERPOWER!, etc. If it's about the movie, then he has nothing to be ashamed of either, it's not like he scored the whole film, and advertised it everywhere, that it's gonna be the best shit you've ever seen. Imo it's not even that bad of a movie; went a bit more casual, than the original, so maybe it was a disappointment for the hardcore fans, but if someone can't stomach The Bullet Man, then trust me, they wouldn't last long with the original, considering a guy literally fucks a woman with his drilling robot dick in it.

BenAkenobi
04-18-2015, 12:25 AM
Spoilers man!

nooneimportant
04-18-2015, 10:56 PM
I hope the next time NIN tours, they play the full version of Closer. It's so good.

Prettybrokenspiral
04-19-2015, 03:11 AM
sick among the pure = Leviathant in disguise

Khrz
04-19-2015, 04:31 AM
Sometimes I'm surprised Trent talked to us at all, NIN fans are assholes ​sometimes.
Well he talked to us to call us cunts, I think there's a mutual understanding there...

sweeterthan
04-19-2015, 10:42 AM
Well he talked to us to call us cunts, I think there's a mutual understanding there...

The good old days.... I really miss them.

telee.kom
04-20-2015, 05:36 AM
I'm kinda surprised David Fincher haven't directed any NIN music video yet, considering his background as a music video director and Trent's involvment with him

Vertigo
04-20-2015, 07:36 AM
I'm kinda surprised David Fincher haven't directed any NIN music video yet, considering his background as a music video director and Trent's involvment with him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDsqpeiTqg8

telee.kom
04-20-2015, 11:02 AM
Well everyday's a school day

AMBFCHD
04-21-2015, 06:15 AM
Anyone thought of the outro noise of Hurt to be a heart monitor flatline and the person being disconnected near the end?

hani
04-21-2015, 08:43 AM
about Pilgrimage: I always considered it a vital part of No, You Don't, and I actually never listen to those two apart from each other. always together. makes sense to me.

GlitchyFlame
04-21-2015, 01:52 PM
I wouldn't call Pilgrimage "filler" per-say. It's still not my favorite on the Fragile. Still better than Starfuckers, though. That song should have been erased off of the Fragile to become a b-side.

jessamineny
04-21-2015, 02:09 PM
Anyone thought of the outro noise of Hurt to be a heart monitor flatline and the person being disconnected near the end?

I had not. But I hear it now when I listen for it.
I had always thought the beginning of "The Eater of Dreams" sounded like waking up in a hospital, so the flatline sound in "Hurt" makes total sense to me. Thanks!