Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

[Jinsai]

He's a darling of the right. He might get a book deal or radio show off this.

They can make him the new mascot of Gerber baby food formula while they're at it.

[Haysey_Draws]

The writing was on the wall the second the judge declared the murdered couldn't be called victims. Now the next time there is a riot (and it could be real fucking soon) hell's going to brake loose...how in the fuck did we even get here?!

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Excuse any ignorance from me, but after reading why the gun charge was thrown out... It was due to the fact that his murdering machine wasn't a short barrel firearm?!? Was that it?

[cdm]

Excuse any ignorance from me, but after reading why the gun charge was thrown out... It was due to the fact that his murdering machine wasn't a short barrel firearm?!? Was that it?

I'm not 100% familiar with Wisconsin law but short-barrel rifles and shotguns have tighter regulations due to ease of concealment. Apparently the law didn't apply because his AR had a standard length barrel.

[elevenism]

Holy Jesus.

Enjoy your riots.

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

I'm not 100% familiar with Wisconsin law but short-barrel rifles and shotguns have tighter regulations due to ease of concealment. Apparently the law didn't apply because his AR had a standard length barrel.

For fucks sake... I guess having a barrel that doesn't match that law just turns it into Nerf gun pretty much then.

[Haysey_Draws]

How long until he is on the Rogan Podcast...

[Jinsai]

I'm not 100% familiar with Wisconsin law but short-barrel rifles and shotguns have tighter regulations due to ease of concealment. Apparently the law didn't apply because his AR had a standard length barrel.

So maybe instead of throwing that charge out, they should consider the possibility that this cabbage patch doll who looks like he fell out of central-casting to play "school shooter" wanted all of these pissed-off people to see him waving around his big, long, powerful, "cool-looking" gun.

[Swykk]

It’s all gross but I think Kyle will be an author and an elected GOP horde by ‘24 if not ‘26 or ‘28 but first, a big run on all the racist/MAGA cult “news” shows with his dumb racist mom. Couldn’t have done it without her!

UPDATE: Madison Cawthorn, who can also eat shit, has offered Kyle an internship so it’s already happening. Great. Lovely.

[poinoup]

*shakes head*

Yet I'm not surprised one bit. I await Fox and the like having pictures of him with hearts drawn all around him.

[cdm]

So maybe instead of throwing that charge out, they should consider the possibility that this cabbage patch doll who looks like he fell out of central-casting to play "school shooter" wanted all of these pissed-off people to see him waving around his big, long, powerful, "cool-looking" gun.

That's the problem: what he did, up until he pulled the trigger, was perfectly legal and what happened after was judged to be justifiable purely due to his ability to open carry in the first place. I'm not saying I agree with that but that's where we find ourselves.


It’s all gross but I think Kyle will be an author and an elected GOP horde by ‘24 if not ‘26 or ‘28 but first, a big run on all the racist/MAGA cult “news” shows with his dumb racist mom. Couldn’t have done it without her!

UPDATE: Madison Cawthorn, who can also eat shit, has offered Kyle an internship so it’s already happening. Great. Lovely.

Matt Gaetz posted something similar earlier this week...which is probably the first time he's ever shown interest in anyone over 18. (surely this joke has already been made but I'm doing it anyway)

[Haysey_Draws]

Now seeing on the socials alot of the right sided edge lords are empowered and vindicated, and i'm really worried what's going to happen at any protests now. Shit was already fucked just trying to hold people to account and getting basic rights for marginalized groups...i hope i'm being pessimistic but i can only see things getting worse for people...i'm logging off for the night.

[Jinsai]

That's the problem: what he did, up until he pulled the trigger, was perfectly legal and what happened after was judged to be justifiable purely due to his ability to open carry in the first place. I'm not saying I agree with that but that's where we find ourselves.


Yeah... it's just so deflating and aggravating. I didn't mean to sound like I was saying anything against you or implying that you were agreeing with the outcome. I'm probably just pissed and it's bleeding into my general posting, nothing directed at you or anything that anyone is saying here.

[cdm]

Yeah... it's just so deflating and aggravating. I didn't mean to sound like I was saying anything against you or implying that you were agreeing with the outcome. I'm probably just pissed and it's bleeding into my general posting, nothing directed at you or anything that anyone is saying here.

Nah I get it and I'm right there with you.

[elevenism]

Why in the fuck didn't they charge him with manslaughter, too? I KNEW it was going to be hard to get him on those big ass murder charges, because so much of it is based on proving the horrible bastard's THOUGHTS at a certain time, and whether or not his actions counted as provocation, which is proving OTHER people's thoughts.

Also, Jinsai , you're right about that kid's face: doesn't it look like it would be SO pleasant to punch him in his doughy, stupid ass face, and then maybe a couple more times in his big ass head?

[cdm]

Why in the fuck didn't they charge him with manslaughter, too?

Manslaughter isn’t a thing in Wisconsin, instead it’s second degree intentional homicide. The jury was allowed to consider him guilty of that offense in the case of the second killing. They chose not to. They were sold on self defense so it was moot to them. Here is a decent explainer: https://apnews.com/article/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-kenosha-3febaa501c57a6b54e168353fe0b2a26

[Wretchedest]

I am beyond angry. I am so tired of this broke system and this morally bankrupt country. I want to see some shit burn. I want to see the right hurt.

[BRoswell]

Angry, but not surprised. My only hope is that he gets what's coming to him down the road.

[elevenism]

Angry, but not surprised. My only hope is that he gets what's coming to him down the road.
Oh, he will.
I try not to put that sort of energy out there.

But he will.

[allegate]

I mean there's a reason I posted a picture of Jack fucking Ruby.

[richardp]

Oh, he will.
I try not to put that sort of energy out there.

But he will.

He'll sadly be so protected by the GOP that no one will even be able to get near him. I truly would love to see some WorldStar level videos of this little cunt getting the shit beat out of him mercifully. Maybe some skateboarding saint will catch him on the sidewalk someday and fuck him up with his deck in the name of Anthony Huber.

[M1ke]

That jury just made it clear to right-wing nuts that you can get away with hunting protestors.

After this verdict he won't be the last one, shit's about to get a lot worse.

[allegro]

He immediately left the courtroom and went home to Illinois today. His defense attorney said Rittenhouse just wants to lay low and get a normal life. He said the prior defense attorneys were fired for using Rittenhouse for a “cause.” The attorney said the kid is getting therapy and has PTSD; he said lots of people are questioning the validity of that, but he can confirm that Rittenhouse broke down many times during preparation meetings. The attorney said he, personally, questions the value of bringing guns of any kind to protests, he doesn’t see the value, but being a defense attorney is his job.

I think the jury put a lot of thought and effort into this. One juror asked to take the jury instructions home yesterday (36 pages), and the judge approved (the defense objected). The jury asked to review the video of when Rittenhouse put down the fire extinguisher. This was the exact moment the prosecution asserted that Rittenhouse lifted his rifle with both hands and pointed the rifle in the direction of Ziminski. It’s really hard to see any detail in the video, even enhanced. That was key evidence as to whether Rittenhouse provoked. Evidently, the jury could not detect any evidence of that and detected evidence of the opposite.

Yes, the reality is that the judge weighed toward the defense during the trial, not allowing pertinent evidence, etc.

But the bottom line is that this will allow people of ALL colors, including protesters, to open carry and to use their weapon against anyone who “threatens” them, in Wisconsin. It’s - unfortunately - opening the door to the OK Corral.

Rittenhouse is going to have a hell of a time getting a job, getting into any school, etc. He says he wants to be a nurse, but he apparently doesn’t even have a GED. Rep. Matt Gaetz talked about offering Rittenhouse some kind of intern job. Except interns make practically zero money and can barely live day to day, particularly in the District.

My husband predicts this kid will end up in trouble again and the next time he won’t be so lucky (like OJ Simpson). I suspect my husband is right.

[WorzelG]

Personally I’d consider taking an assault rifle to a protest that is nothing to do with you is provocation in itself?

EDIT sorry just read back through the thread and I guess this isn’t considered provocation at all and is legal

[sweeterthan]

an artist i’ve followed for years now posted thursday evening that he’s been sentence to 12 months in prison for a non violent crime. he’s supportive of my work but i feel like i don’t know him well enough to inquire about the details. he’s said in the past about the arrest that he got into a drunken argument with a cop. i can’t seem to comprehend why that would deserve a whole year in jail. but a gun grabbing kid who took actual lives gets to go home to his momma like he did nothing. even the abulance driver who killed my mother (and almost me) got jail time and that was an accident/negligence (man slaughter).

i don’t get it. i feel like killing people shouldn’t be partisan. their stupid bible even says “thou shall not” and not only do they do it, they fucking celebrate it. all the ways they want to justify it do not work for me. if kyle was acting in self defense, so was everyone else. he went there to commit criminal activity just like his victims. not guilty my fucking ass.

[cdm]

He immediately left the courtroom and went home to Illinois today. His defense attorney said Rittenhouse just wants to lay low and get a normal life. He said the prior defense attorneys were fired for using Rittenhouse for a “cause.” The attorney said the kid is getting therapy and has PTSD; he said lots of people are questioning the validity of that, but he can confirm that Rittenhouse broke down many times during preparation meetings. The attorney said he, personally, questions the value of bringing guns of any kind to protests, he doesn’t see the value, but being a defense attorney is his job.

He's going on Tucker on Monday and has been participating in some sort of Tucker / Fox News produced documentary of the trial so I'll believe all this when I see it. The question about the breakdowns is were they from a place of regret and understanding he made a series of bad decisions that led to the deaths of two people and serious injuries to another...or were they just him feeling sorry for himself and the prospect of spending a long time in prison. I have my own thoughts about that but only he knows for sure. Though, going on Tucker Carlson 72 hours after the verdict is telling.

[allegro]

https://twitter.com/ckscullycat/status/1462217437890297858?s=21

[sweeterthan]

someone i know posted this. it’s fake but i’m hoping they don’t find out and show up there waiting for their buddy kyle to come wave at them. nothing says christmas like a child murderer.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211121/2094f701de19da1b14f47d9500e51178.jpg

[allegro]

Everyone should become familiar with the Mulford Act in California, aka “the Panther Act.”

https://twitter.com/norah_dooley/status/1462169325075324933?s=21

https://twitter.com/lyle/status/1462470604292980741?s=21

https://twitter.com/bulldoghill/status/1461906201546006530?s=21


In other words:

White people with open carry: AOK

Black people with open carry: Criminals

[the duder]

A great listen, which outlines said history: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/radiolab-presents-more-perfect-gun-show

[cdm]

The McMichael / Bryan trial has gone to the jury. They better not fuck this up.

[poinoup]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jDL7nx3mJQ

"Turning Ahmaud Arbery into a victim, after the choices that he made, do not reflect the reality of what brought Arbery to Satilla Shores. In his khaki shorts, with no socks to cover his long dirty, toenails."

Yep, I'm done with the internets today...

[Jinsai]

Im really discouraged and worried that the jury is still deliberating. This should have been just done. This is insane.

And yea, throwing in an aside about the victim’s personal hygiene or whatever that was? Has she seen her client? Guy looks like a drunk mall Santa who has been asked politely (but firmly) on several occasions to please leave the Chuck E Cheese.

[allegro]

And yea, throwing in an aside about the victim’s personal hygiene or whatever that was?

That was dehumanizing the victim. Because that’s what racists do. Racists depict black people as dirty and disgusting, and there was no way he was out “running” when he was really out there being a criminal like all black people.

[cdm]

The McMichael / Bryan trial has gone to the jury. They better not fuck this up.

A whole lotta ‘guilty’ in that there split verdict. All guilty of felony murder. Seems like they, in fact, did not fuck this up.

[ickyvicky]

Jurors find all three defendants guilty of murder.

[Jinsai]

Fuck. Yes.

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1465887529337565184

lot of people saying the parents should also be charged and that seems to be an argument that I've not seen before.

[cdm]

lot of people saying the parents should also be charged and that seems to be an argument that I've not seen before.

I think it's popping up here given how recently the gun was purchased but that doesn't necessarily mean they're guilty of wrong-doing.

[sweeterthan]

I think it's popping up here given how recently the gun was purchased but that doesn't necessarily mean they're guilty of wrong-doing.

i don’t know. gun safety should definitely have more laws and requirements including accountability for the weapon you own.


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[allegate]

I think it's popping up here given how recently the gun was purchased but that doesn't necessarily mean they're guilty of wrong-doing.
fair point, but also they aren't letting him talk.
The motive remains unknown as the suspect has refused to talk. Police say he has no prior record. They said they were searching the suspect's cellphone, school video footage and social media posts for any evidence of a possible motive. "The person that's got the most insight and the motive is not talking," said Bouchard, according to the Associated Press.

Undersheriff Mike McCabe said the suspect's parents visited their son where he's being held and advised him not to talk to investigators, as is his right. Police must seek permission from a juvenile suspect's parents or guardian to speak with them, he added.I know it's their right but it's suspect at best.

Also:

There were signs, says parentA parent of one the students in the school Robin Redding said her son, Treshan Bryant had stayed home Tuesday as he had heard threats that there could be a shooting. "This couldn't be just random," she said.


Bryant said he had heard unconfirmed threats "for a long time now" about plans for a shooting, reported the Associated Press. Bryant said he texted several younger cousins in the morning and they said they didn't want to go to school, and he got a bad feeling. He asked his mom if he could do his assignments online.

[cdm]

i don’t know. gun safety should definitely have more laws and requirements including accountability for the weapon you own.

Sure, I agree we need more gun owner accountability but the prosecutors are bound by the current laws on the books. At 15 he would be legally allowed to use the gun with supervision and I don't think we know enough about the family's gun storage habits but assuming it was locked up, I have a feeling the kid would have had access to it if he really wanted it (aka "self defense in the home"). I'm not sure that alone would meet a criminal threshold in the eyes of a jury.

I think there is also prejudice against the parents because 1. the kid isn't talking and 2. they denied permission and hired a lawyer so people assume they're covering for him. So just as we hear so much about what to do when the cops want to talk to you ("shut the fuck up") they're doing just that and that alone isn't an indication of their guilt.

With all that said, if there is evidence they were somehow criminally responsible...charge the hell out of them.

[allegate]

Sure, I agree we need more gun owner accountability but the prosecutors are bound by the current laws on the books. At 15 he would be legally allowed to use the gun with supervision and I don't think we know enough about the family's gun storage habits but assuming it was locked up, I have a feeling the kid would have had access to it if he really wanted it (aka "self defense in the home"). I'm not sure that alone would meet a criminal threshold in the eyes of a jury.

I think there is also prejudice against the parents because 1. the kid isn't talking and 2. they denied permission and hired a lawyer so people assume they're covering for him. So just as we hear so much about what to do when the cops want to talk to you ("shut the fuck up") they're doing just that and that alone isn't an indication of their guilt.

With all that said, if there is evidence they were somehow criminally responsible...charge the hell out of them.
first paragraph: Rittenhouse all over again: the laws on the books don't fit the crimes which is a real pain. Some of the laws are written so specifically that you can just say 'ah ha! loophole' and that's it. (very reductive and I apologize to those who know more than I about law)

second paragraph: that asshole in Florida whose parents covered for him definitely left a bad feeling with a lot of people.

third paragraph: see first.

[cdm]

first paragraph: Rittenhouse all over again: the laws on the books don't fit the crimes which is a real pain. Some of the laws are written so specifically that you can just say 'ah ha! loophole' and that's it. (very reductive and I apologize to those who know more than I about law)

It very well could be in the sense that the parents skirt could charges even if there is evidence they were criminally negligent because of gaps in the law. Keep in mind we're talking about Michigan here: not the most loosey-goosey when it comes to gun laws but it's certainly not California or New Jersey either.


second paragraph: that asshole in Florida whose parents covered for him definitely left a bad feeling with a lot of people.

For sure. Apparently the kid was very online and his behavior was such that the parents met with school officials the morning of the shooting. I think at the very least they're guilty of bad judgement for giving him access to a gun.

[thelastdisciple]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2aU6nQM264

Cenk Uygur is SUCH a mood right now.

[allegro]

The kid planned the murder days ahead of time in his journal, and posted stuff to Facebook ahead of the shooting saying he was gonna bring death to Oxford.

His dad bought him the handgun and three magazines on Black Friday. You have to register guns in Michigan; it’s illegal for anyone younger than 21 to own a handgun.

https://twitter.com/clamontw/status/1465957111838363648?s=21

[cdm]

The kid planned the murder days ahead of time in his journal, and posted stuff to Facebook ahead of the shooting saying he was gonna bring death to Oxford.

His dad bought him the handgun and three magazines on Black Friday. You have to register guns in Michigan; it’s illegal for anyone younger than 21 to own a handgun.

This is all gross and they both seems to be scumbags, particularly the father, I'm just not hopeful they'll be found guilty of anything unless they have concrete evidence there was prior knowledge.

There are ways to get around the gun law. As for age, the kid can legally own the handgun at 18 so long as he received a purchasing permit from the state AND the handgun was purchased from a private seller. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, the age 21 restriction on handguns only applies if A. the seller is federally licensed dealer and B. for issuance of a concealed carry permit. Dad will say it was registered to him until chud junior turns 18 at which time he'd sell it to him as a private seller. That seems like a huge batshit crazy loophole but also perfectly legal.

Edit: and to be perfectly clear, I don't really disagree with what Cenk Uyger is saying, which is "if it's your gun and your kid uses it to commit murder, you should be charged as accessory", just that I'm not really expecting anything more than a misdemeanor gun something-or-other out of this. Charges are one thing but a guilty verdict is another and I'm just not very optimistic on that. I'll happily be proven wrong, though.

[allegro]

This is all gross and they both seems to be scumbags, particularly the father, I'm just not hopeful they'll be found guilty of anything unless they have concrete evidence there was prior knowledge.

There are ways to get around the gun law. As for age, the kid can legally own the handgun at 18 so long as he received a purchasing permit from the state AND the handgun was purchased from a private seller. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, the age 21 restriction on handguns only applies if A. the seller is federally licensed dealer and B. for issuance of a concealed carry permit. Dad will say it was registered to him until chud junior turns 18 at which time he'd sell it to him as a private seller. That seems like a huge batshit crazy loophole but also perfectly legal.

That’s not how I understand Michigan law. I actually have a handgun from a Michigan*. If I lived in Michigan, it would require me to obtain a license and permit. Federal law prevents anyone under 21 from buying a handgun, so the kid couldn’t directly purchase it because he (a) couldn’t get a Michigan license and (b) can’t buy one legally under Federal law. If the kid’s Facebook post and journal entries make it clear that mom and dad gave kid the gun for Christmas (as the mom posted on HER Facebook page), then they transferred ownership to the kid.

* see 8, I actually inherited the handgun. In Michigan, I’d still need a license.
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(42yvbqsozthk3u1ogo3n3biz))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-28-422

“Charged” and “found guilty” are two different things, yes. As are civil lawsuits.

His parents could now be up against FEDERAL charges.

The father isn’t more “scummy” than the mom:

https://twitter.com/francesca1diasi/status/1466130472610807810?s=21

[cdm]

https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-answers/qa/may-individual-between-ages-18-and-21-years-age-acquire-handgun-unlicensed

If his dad owns the gun he can gift it or sell it to his son at 18 as a private individual. The son would have to obtain a purchasing permit and license but he can legally own the gun at 18. What he can't do until 21 is buy the same gun from a federally licensed dealer. The federal government is not regulating the handgun so much as they're regulating the dealer with a federal license to sell. All this is moot, of course, because the kid isn't 18 yet and he'll probably never see the outside of a concrete cell, save for the trips to and from court.

Edit: and as it turns out...

1466817660264529932

Hopefully these charges stick.

[allegro]

Yes, Dad can do that when kid turned 18, but kid would still have to get a Michigan license and then register said gun. But from all of the evidence presented so far, it appears that the parents presented the gun and mags to the kid as an early Christmas present. In other words, transferred ownership to the kid. He posted pics of himself in his room with the gun, and in his pocket, and saying he just got the gun. If it’s “his,” it requires the kid to obtain a license and registration. Which the kid could not legally do. If it’s “dad’s,” there’s apparently no Michigan law requiring guns to be locked up. But the kid didn’t say, on social media, “this is my dad’s gun.” He, at least, was under the distinct impression that it was his - the kid’s - gun.

The kid was apparently being bullied at school. If the parents KNEW this and got him a gun, now there’s hella premeditation, too.

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1466820782525452289?s=21


Meanwhile, media keeps posting grade school pics of this kid. Wtf.

https://twitter.com/_loverachel_/status/1466189858825818118?s=21

https://twitter.com/nypost/status/1466139012155027463?s=21



https://twitter.com/larrywdivlocal4/status/1466195609036152839?s=21

[allegate]

something that just occurred to me: much like Texas decided to go after the 'others' in abortion cases to get a law to stick I feel like this is the same thing. can't change or write new gun laws, can't hold the manufacturers accountable (which I agree with), so go after the parents. it's not gun control, it's something else.

[cdm]

Yes, Dad can do that when kid turned 18, but kid would still have to get a Michigan license and then register said gun. But from all of the evidence presented so far, it appears that the parents presented the gun and mags to the kid as an early Christmas present. In other words, transferred ownership to the kid. He posted pics of himself in his room with the gun, and in his pocket, and saying he just got the gun. If it’s “his,” it requires the kid to obtain a license and registration. Which the kid could not legally do. If it’s “dad’s,” there’s apparently no Michigan law requiring guns to be locked up. But the kid didn’t say, on social media, “this is my dad’s gun.” He, at least, was under the distinct impression that it was his - the kid’s - gun.

The kid can post to social media saying he's a millionaire...doesn't make it true. In the eyes of the state of Michigan the dad is still the owner of the gun and while common sense and every shooting instructor will tell you to lock it up for safety, he's under no legal obligation to do so. So if all the state has are some instagram posts of the kid spouting off about it being his gun...that ain't gonna be enough. EDIT: the tone of the prosecutor makes it seem like they have a compelling case but as we all know that's not always indicative of the actual evidence.

[poinoup]

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2021/11/30/active-shooter-multiple-victims-reported-michigans-oxford-high/8810326002/

(https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2021/11/30/active-shooter-multiple-victims-reported-michigans-oxford-high/8810326002/)"[Gov] Whitmer, during an evening news briefing, said "it's too early to talk about policies that might need to change as a result of this."


"This is a uniquely American problem that we need to address," she said. "But at this juncture, I think we need to focus on the community, the families, supporting all the first responders, including the incredible people at our hospitals that are working so hard to save the lives of those who are fighting for their lives."

OK, how about a consolation? Let's start talking about policies that might need to change, starting all the way back with Columbine... or Virginia Tech. There's been enough time for conversation on that, right?




(https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2021/11/30/active-shooter-multiple-victims-reported-michigans-oxford-high/8810326002/)

[allegro]

Mom texted “Ethan, don’t do it” the morning of shooting.

https://abc7ny.com/amp/oxford-school-shooting-michigan-shooter-ethan-crumbley/11296940/


So she knew, but didn’t call police.

Checkmate.

[allegate]

Mom texted “Ethan, don’t do it” the morning of shooting.

https://abc7ny.com/amp/oxford-school-shooting-michigan-shooter-ethan-crumbley/11296940/


So she knew, but didn’t call police.

Checkmate.
Wait, was this before or after the at-school meeting? Because that's some wild timing.

[allegro]

Wait, was this before or after the at-school meeting? Because that's some wild timing.

AFTER. Guessing they realized he had the gun in his backpack.

[cdm]

1466860422166822914

This investigation is going well. /s

EDIT: the sheriff is now on MSNBC being pretty clear his office was taken by surprise by the charges and the Prosecutor's office did not tell them about the press conference ahead of time. They learned of the charges this morning from media inquiries.

[allegro]

Their lawyer says they left town the night of the shooting, for “their own safety,” but will return to turn themselves in:

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/oakland/2021/12/03/james-crumbley-jennifer-crumbley-search-oxford-high-school-shooting/8856414002/

[cdm]

Their lawyer says they left town the night of the shooting, for “their own safety,” but will return to turn themselves in

Interesting because on MSNBC the Sheriff said his office knew of their whereabouts as recently as last night.

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/ABC/status/1466900293002706949?s=20

who knows!

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/EPCSheriff/status/1466845021995421698

OH yeah great timing guys

[allegro]

Does Texas have reciprocity with the North Pole?

[Jinsai]

what I was hearing on the radio was that the mom's original text to her son was "LOL, I'm not mad, you gotta learn not to get in trouble."

[allegro]

This was the Mom’s Instagram post about the kid’s gun
https://twitter.com/catmandoodlebug/status/1466830292556169217?s=21

[elevenism]

I've been ignoring this, as I do 99% of school/mass shootings these days. I.generally see.the headline, feel a heavy dose of shame, and finally, remind myself that my wife and I WILL be leaving this hellhole EVENTUALLY.

But yeah, I pulled my head out of the sand, and the idea of the culpability of the parents is interesting, for sure, and hopefully sets a precedent going forward when it comes to investigating these awful things.

[cdm]

What a couple of dumb fucks. Had they turned themselves in they probably could have bonded out and a good defense team would have really tested the charges at trial. But they had to get cute. Much much harder now.

[sweeterthan]

What a couple of dumb fucks. Had they turned themselves in they probably could have bonded out and a good defense team would have really tested the charges at trial. But they had to get cute. Much much harder now.

right? their instinct to run is bizarre. your kid is in jail. he might need you maybe. (let’s be real, he doesn’t need them. he needs mental health professionals.)


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[cdm]

Welp

1471114936122290180

[BRoswell]

He'll be a Fox News contributor very, very soon.

[sweeterthan]

one of the tweets says “accountability is coming” so i guess “not guilty” kyle is gonna sue everybody. this timeline sucks.


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[allegate]

something that just occurred to me: much like Texas decided to go after the 'others' in abortion cases to get a law to stick I feel like this is the same thing. can't change or write new gun laws, can't hold the manufacturers accountable (which I agree with), so go after the parents. it's not gun control, it's something else.
https://twitter.com/gavinnewsom/status/1469865185493983234
well look at that.
More or less what Roberts was warning the Court’s Texas decision could lead to, by providing precedential run-arounds on protected rights.

[Jinsai]

Welp

1471114936122290180

This is so infuriating. Everything about this.
Fuck this George Zimmerman 2.0 w/ extra

This is like when OJ put out a book with a title like "But What if I Did Do it?!" or something. Why do his lawyers or family members or friends think this is a good idea? You'd think he'd just thank his lucky stars he got away with murder. Where's the fake tears now, sunshine?

And I'm so goddamn sick of this super jingoistic BULLLLLLLSHIT. "Americafest?" So goddamn lame, and this Turning Point is supposed to be the GOP reach out for youth right? So fucking lame.

[Swykk]

I’d be more angry about it if I didn’t see it coming. It’s more sad and disappointing than anything else.

He will run for office next.

[elevenism]

https://twitter.com/gavinnewsom/status/1469865185493983234
well look at that.

I kind of had the same feeling.

At the same time, though, do you think aggressively looking for a point of culpability in the parents of school.shooters is the worst thing in the world?

I think it might create some better parenting, and conversations like "Now. Sonny Jim, one thing you SHOULDN'T do is shoot up the school, no matter what. Do you understand? Do NOT shoot up the school."

I'm REALLY starting to feel that, unfortunately, this is a talk parents need to have with their children, at least in THIS country.

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/maggieserota/status/1473663105527918593

[allegate]

Ahmaud Arbery’s killers sentenced to life in prison, two with no chance of parole (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/three-men-convicted-of-murdering-ahmaud-arbery-to-be-sentenced-friday/ar-AASwRid?ocid=uxbndlbing)

hot damn.gif

https://twitter.com/NPR/status/1479548643904528390

[sweeterthan]

good. fuck those stupid assholes for ruining their own lives.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[allegro]

good. fuck those stupid assholes for ruining their own lives.
And for being racists and taking someone else's life.

[allegate]

good. fuck those stupid assholes for ruining their own lives.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting choice of words. (https://www.npr.org/2022/01/07/1071409604/all-3-men-convicted-of-murdering-ahmaud-arbery-have-been-sentenced-to-life-in-pr)


MCCAMMON: Well, the prosecutor, Linda Dunikoski, accused the men of vigilantism. And she referenced Travis McMichael's history of using racist language, which was described during the trial in November.


(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED RECORDING)


LINDA DUNIKOSKI: He said, this was the worst day of my life. Well, how'd that work out for Ahmaud Arbery? Not once - not once did he show any empathy or ability to place himself in the position of Mr. Arbery on the stand.

[sweeterthan]

my comment isn’t meant to detract from their obviously heinous racist views. it’s about the decision they made. they did this to Arbery but they also did it to themselves. it was conscious and deliberate. the punishment fits the crime. permanent participants in a system they thought Ahmaud Arbery should be a part of.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[allegate]

Oh totally, I was just commenting on the irony that he feels that being sentenced is the worst day of his life. Not the shooting but being held accountable for the shooting.

[allegro]

my comment isn’t meant to detract from their obviously heinous racist views. it’s about the decision they made. they did this to Arbery but they also did it to themselves. it was conscious and deliberate. the punishment fits the crime. permanent participants in a system they thought Ahmaud Arbery should be a part of.

Amen. They're also a part of a big system of 100s of years of horrible, disgusting racism that still exists today, as exhibited by these three pieces of shit, and their defense attorneys.

The BIGGEST part of this trial, that I will NEVER get out of my head, is this defense attorney's DISGUSTING and RACIST closing argument. I pray that we start seeing more and more of these heinous racist evil people brought to justice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejYiN9uZ84Y

[allegro]

There’s a hostage situation in Colleyville Texas right now.

Horrific.

https://twitter.com/mslisahendricks/status/1482433358802030593?s=21

[allegate]

Who's got money on the guy getting arrested peacefully?

[allegro]

Who's got money on the guy getting arrested peacefully?

Reporters on MSNBC who were on the scene and heard guy talking with SWAT said guy:

* Told SWAT he wasn’t leaving alive
* Asked SWAT if he could talk with his sister

This ain’t good

Guy said he has bombs and guns.

[sweeterthan]

Who's got money on the guy getting arrested peacefully?

fingers crossed

[elevenism]

Reporters on MSNBC who were on the scene and heard guy talking with SWAT said guy:

* Told SWAT he wasn’t leaving alive
* Asked SWAT if he could talk with his sister

This ain’t good

Guy said he has bombs and guns.

Sister is apparently "Lady Al Qaeda," who's been in prison since 2010, and this dude is demanding her release. (according to CBSN.)
I highly doubt that shit's gonna happen.

FBI and ATF on the scene.

Edit: CNN just said that this particular Rabbi has been involved in reaching out to the Muslim community in that area, and participating in interfaith services.

At least there were only four people there. It's a cold comfort, but if it weren't for covid, it could be a hell of a lot worse.

[allegro]

Sister is apparently "Lady Al Qaeda," who's been in prison since 2010, and this dude is demanding her release. (according to CBSN.)
I highly doubt that shit's gonna happen.

FBI and ATF on the scene.

Edit: CNN just said that this particular Rabbi has been involved in reaching out to the Muslim community in that area, and participating in interfaith services.

At least there were only four people there. It's a cold comfort, but if it weren't for covid, it could be a hell of a lot worse.

I heard there was a full Shabbat service? But maybe most people left before he got in there?

Thank G-d.

Edit: Ah I see the Shabbat service was being live-streamed.

[allegro]

Hostages are safe and free.

https://twitter.com/matt_leclercq/status/1482557945196027905?s=21

[elevenism]

I heard there was a full Shabbat service? But maybe most people left before he got in there?

Thank G-d.

Edit: Ah I see the Shabbat service was being live-streamed.
I caught about 8 minutes of the stream.

Dude was yelling in Arabic and SOME English.

And I'm still not understanding if the imprisoned woman is LITERALLY his sister; at this point, the FBI isn't even mentioning that motive or confirming the suspect's identity.

[allegro]

I caught about 8 minutes of the stream.

Dude was yelling in Arabic and SOME English.

And I'm still not understanding if the imprisoned woman is LITERALLY his sister; at this point, the FBI isn't even mentioning that motive or confirming the suspect's identity.

From WaPo, just now;


The man who took a rabbi and other people hostage at a Dallas-area synagogue Saturday night in an hours-long standoff with law enforcement has been identified as 44-year-old British citizen Malik Faisal Akram, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation.


Matthew DeSarno, the FBI special agent in charge of the Dallas field office, confirmed the identity of the Colleyville, Tex., hostage-taker in a statement sent to The Washington Post on Sunday. Authorities previously said the suspect had died.
“At this time, there is no indication that other individuals are involved,” the statement said.

[…]

A law enforcement official who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss the investigation said the man’s motive for taking hostages appeared to be his anger over the U.S. imprisonment of Aafia Siddiqui, a Pakistani woman being held in federal prison in Fort Worth for trying to kill U.S. soldiers. Siddiqui was convicted on terrorism charges in 2010 and sentenced to 86 years in prison after opening fire on Americans.

[elevenism]

I actually just caught that in my Dallas Morning News email allegro .

Some initial reports speculated that the suspect was Siddiqui's ACTUAL brother, and gave his name.

I'd sue if that were me.

[allegro]

I actually just caught that in my Dallas Morning News email allegro .

Some initial reports speculated that the suspect was Siddiqui's ACTUAL brother, and gave his name.

I'd sue if that were me.

Wouldn’t make it in court. The terrorist dude was calling the other terrorist his “sister.” Journalists were going by the only info they had, which wasn’t malicious in intent. Intent means everything. The only person the actual brother could sue is the dead guy. But he likely meant “sister of Islam” and not actual sister.

This just shows how litigious Americans are.

[elevenism]

Wouldn’t make it in court. The terrorist dude was calling the other terrorist his “sister.” Journalists were going by the only info they had, which wasn’t malicious in intent. Intent means everything. The only person the actual brother could sue is the dead guy. But he likely meant “sister of Islam” and not actual sister.

This just shows how litigious Americans are.

Couldn't you claim defamation, though, regardless of intent?

I remember some years ago, there was a "docuseries" version of a book on Jonbenet Ramsey that suggested her brother killed her.

And he sued the pants off of CBS or NBC or whoever it was.

[allegro]

Couldn't you claim defamation, though, regardless of intent?

I remember some years ago, there was a "docuseries" version of a book on Jonbenet Ramsey that suggested her brother killed her.

And he sued the pants off of CBS or NBC or whoever it was.

In the case from yesterday, the terrorist told authorities on a live feed (where journalists could hear) that the chick in prison was his sister. At the time of publication of the information, it was thought to be fact based on the terrorist’s own statements. So journalists investigated who the “brother” would be, since the FBI and ATF weren’t giving up any info. Again, this was based on “facts” provided by the terrorist. So, the one committing defamation was the dead terrorist (alleging himself to be the brother of the chick in prison).

FWIW, LIN WOOD represented Burke Ramsey vs. CBS regarding a docuseries that focused specifically on Burke, and the case was settled. But nobody knows for how much. It’s pretty difficult to prove defamation. But in the Burke Ramsey case, CBS would have to provide facts. Their facts were mostly of the “crime as entertainment” nature.

The case yesterday provided facts as if they were actual reliable facts from the person committing the act, and there was no reason, at the time, to believe that he was lying when he also believed he was going to die (there’s Federal Rules of evidence that covers this).

[elevenism]

ah, I see, @allegro (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) .

I remember the series was based on a book that sort of danced around the idea the it was Burke, and then the show stated it outright. And I remember Burke getting the settlement

But I certainly don't know the legal intricacies.

[allegro]

and then the show stated it outright. And I remember Burke getting the settlement

Yeah see THAT'S where they probably fucked up, ya know? If they'd equivocated a lot, like without coming right out and saying "YEAH, ALL SIGNED POINT TO BURKE!" like some kinda Perry Mason bullshit, then they wouldn't have been settling the case.

I mean, there's ways to dance around it in an entertaining way without pointing right at Burke, making it look more like an OPINION then THIS IS FACT.

[ickyvicky]

Douchebagggggggg

"Alex Jones Again Fails to Show Up for a Deposition in the Sandy Hook Case Against Him"

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/24/1088548953/alex-jones-sandy-hook-deposition-lawsuit

[Jinsai]

I want to see Alex Jones and Roger Stone eat shit so badly

[elevenism]

Douchebagggggggg

"Alex Jones Again Fails to Show Up for a Deposition in the Sandy Hook Case Against Him"

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/24/1088548953/alex-jones-sandy-hook-deposition-lawsuit

Damn.

I used to LIKE Alex, a long time ago, when he was eviscerating the Bush administration and sneaking into Bohemian Grove.

In fact, he was KIND of a "Keep Austin Weird" Texas mascot of sorts: that's why you'll find him in Linklater films like Waking Life.

Slowly but surely, though, he became a fucking asshole, and an embarrassment.

[Jinsai]

In fact, he was KIND of a "Keep Austin Weird" Texas mascot of sorts: that's why you'll find him in Linklater films like Waking Life.

Slowly but surely, though, he became a fucking asshole, and an embarrassment.

Pretty sure I saw a clip from an interview with Linklater where he was saying that the only reason he included Alex Jones in any of his shit is because he thought he was an incredibly strange person.

[elevenism]

Pretty sure I saw a clip from an interview with Linklater where he was saying that the only reason he included Alex Jones in any of his shit is because he thought he was an incredibly strange person.

I mean, yeah. Austin is insanely fucking strange. Deep Ellum, in Dallas, is weird as.shit. And even out west: how.about shit like.the Cadillac Ranch?

Texas is an incredibly strange place.

And Alex was once a mostly harmless, strange Texas institution, before he became a godawful affront to humanity in general.

[elevenism]

I want to see Alex Jones and Roger Stone eat shit so badly

now fucking Roger Stone...oh god.
I've been following THAT dude for a minute.

There's a 2016 doc called Get Me Roger Stone. I think every politically minded person should see it.

The thing is, it isn't a hit piece. He's IN it, bragging about strategies of lying and denial, and i mean, like, he's PROUD of it.
He's straight up Chaotic Evil, if you know your D&D. He BRAGS about being a dirty trickster.

Sorry for driftyness, but it IS somewhat important to gun law, the influence this lunatic wields.

He's like an unapologetic comic book villain.

[Jinsai]

elevenism yeah, Stone is basically satan. I remember on election night 2016, hearing him gloat on conservative talk radio, and it was the first time I'd REALLY heard this guy speak for an extended period, and he is the biggest liar on earth, while also the most frank and upfront person ever about what an asshole he is, and he loves to dangle that in a "and you'll never get me!" kind of way.

[BRoswell]

Mass shooting in Sacramento last night. Six dead, ten wounded. (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-60974119)

[ickyvicky]

^^ Terrible

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1513872522323841024
This one has undetonated devices to make it just that much more fun.

[ickyvicky]

Deputies Protect Parkland School Shooter Nikolas Cruz After Juror Threat: https://nypost.com/2022/04/27/wpparagraph-pa-70-member-jury-pool-was-filing-into-the-fort-lauderdale-courtroom-when-circuit-judge-elizabeth-scherer-said-the-first-man-to-enter-began-mouthing-potential-threats-to-cruz-who-a-href/

This sentence towards the end of the article: "More than 1,800 potential jurors have passed through the courtroom since selection began earlier this month. In one earlier instance, 60 people had to be dismissed after many of them became emotional, potentially influencing the others. About a dozen others had been quietly removed because they started crying."

Why do they still need a jury then?? Over 1,800 people doesn't say enough that everyone is agreeance that he should be dealt with already?

[allegate]

Chair of Oklahoma GOP, Congressional Candidate Calls For Putting Anthony Fauci ‘in Front of a Firing Squad’ (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/chair-of-oklahoma-gop-congressional-candidate-calls-for-putting-anthony-fauci-e2-80-98in-front-of-a-firing-squad-e2-80-99/ar-AAWCvUN?ocid=uxbndlbing)


“And you know what? They’re pushing this wokeness confusion down our throats now. And by the way, we should try Anthony Fauci and put him in front of a firing squad,” he continued, eliciting loud applause and cheers from the crowd.

“And for the Secret Service, if they’re listening, I’m not advocating we kill Anthony Fauci until he’s convicted of his crimes through a court,” the Republican leader jested.

I'm at the point where if the Secret Service wants to pull an SS maneuver on these jokers I wouldn't really mind. and I know the slippery slope that introduces! I'm just getting tired of these wannabe politicians thinking they can threaten people and then be all "It was a just a joke brah".

[poinoup]

Never forget The Palin PAC that had crosshairs on the electoral map, including Gabby Giffords...

[BRoswell]

At least 10 dead in mass shooting at Buffalo supermarket (https://apnews.com/article/buffalo-supermarket-shooting-442c6d97a073f39f99d006dbba40f64b?utm_source=Twitte r&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP)

[chuckrh]

At least 10 dead in mass shooting at Buffalo supermarket (https://apnews.com/article/buffalo-supermarket-shooting-442c6d97a073f39f99d006dbba40f64b?utm_source=Twitte r&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_medium=AP)
When is this all going to end? I know the answer which is never. There's too much money involved. It makes me sad. In my younger years I was hoping we would advance as a society & put stuff like this in the rearview mirror. I won't live to see it happen as the hour glass is running out more so than most people. Whenever some gun nut gets in my face (used to happen a lot at work) all I would say is "dead babies in New Town". That usually shut them up for awhile. I used to be live & let live but I got more militant after New Town. The psychic pain from that one continues to this day. I feel so bad for the parents that have to live the rest of their lives with that. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

[Jinsai]

When is this all going to end? I know the answer which is never. There's too much money involved. It makes me sad. In my younger years I was hoping we would advance as a society & put stuff like this in the rearview mirror. I won't live to see it happen as the hour glass is running out more so than most people. Whenever some gun nut gets in my face (used to happen a lot at work) all I would say is "dead babies in New Town". That usually shut them up for awhile. I used to be live & let live but I got more militant after New Town. The psychic pain from that one continues to this day. I feel so bad for the parents that have to live the rest of their lives with that. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

All you have to do is have a maddening conversation with a gun nut of above-average intelligence to know this is never going to stop. The pro-gun argument is mired in semantics and intentional obfuscation. By the time you actually drag the discussion around to the topic at hand, the goal posts have already been moved several times before they were shoved up your ass, and you were too annoyed to even notice.

[allegro]

There is ZERO reasoning with gun nuts. Even in the face of Sandy Hook and Marjory Stoneman Douglas and every other school shooting.

Their response is always: “SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED.”

We have always been a very violent country. And it’s only going to get worse.

[poinoup]

"It's too early to talk about gun laws in situations like these." - Countless politicians. OK, let's discuss it more in situations like Columbine, or Virginia Tech, or Sandy Hook. Or is it too early for those, too, still?

Don't gun sales usually go up after these tragedies as well? We have a gun range in town here that seems people lust over. It's pretty sick...

[elevenism]

All you have to do is have a maddening conversation with a gun nut of above-average intelligence to know this is never going to stop. The pro-gun argument is mired in semantics and intentional obfuscation. By the time you actually drag the discussion around to the topic at hand, the goal posts have already been moved several times before they were shoved up your ass, and you were too annoyed to even notice.

What is it that you want, though?

I'm down for background checks and such, sure. And it'd be nice to limit battlefield weapons.

But when people start talking about limiting access to guns for average citizens? HELL no.
80-90% of gun crimes are committed with illegally owned/obtained guns.

What am i to do if someone runs up in our house? Kung Fu?

We've got guns.
We're leftists with guns, over here.

Edit: and i REALLY don't care about guns. I'm not a "gun nut." I've never fired a handgun.
But i goddamn sure know where the shotgun is, and how to use it. I've known that for 32 years.

[allegro]

I have two handguns. A Ruger .22 revolver and a Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum. I have a FOID card, since 1987. I’m really good at shooting. I’ve been target shooting for 35 years.

I’ve been target shooting with a bunch a liberals. Who have lots of guns. GLOCKS and Desert Eagles and AK-47s and all KINDS of guns. Liberal as fuck. Biggest computer nerds in history.

What do I want?

Shut down Armslist. Federal background check in all states. I willingly subject myself to training and a waiting list and background checks. Because that’s the way it should be, to try to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn’t have guns. I also believe in a FEDERAL law limiting the size of magazines to TWELVE. And I believe each state should invoke Federal laws after 2 strikes for crimes involving guns.

But, we are a REPUBLIC. This means that each state has its own constitution. And its own gun laws. State laws are generally far more powerful than federal. By design. Our founding fathers intended the federal government to have limited control. People forget that this is often a mental health issue. Or a security issue.

Ever notice that mass shootings NEVER happen in urban schools? Because urban schools have metal detectors and security. Suburban and rural schools are too worried about “mah freedoms.”

I wanna get my Concealed Carry License. So do many of my women friends. My sister in law has one, carries a small 9 mm semi auto in Michigan. But there’s a problem: No reciprocity in other states. And venues that ban CCLs. So bad guys with guns travel wherever they want; but legal, licensed gun holders are hindered or barred.

If I have a CCL and want to carry downtown, there have been nearly 400 armed carjackings in Chicago in the last year. You think any of those criminals legally carry? No. But I can’t, because the venue where I’m going has a sign on the door barring guns. Even legally carried guns. The guy who bursts in illegally? Whatever. We are at his mercy. If I had MY gun? I’d shoot the fucker dead. Legally. But I can’t carry my gun.

All the gun laws in the world won’t stop all this shooting, just like all the abortion laws in the world won’t stop abortion.

We can allow guns in the hands of the good guys (who can perhaps protect us from the bad guys). But, disarm people? You can PRINT a ghost gun via a 3D printer. Disarming Americans is about as realistic as banning abortion.

People with standing Orders of Protection against them in Illinois have their FOID cards suspended so they can’t buy a gun or ammo in Illinois; BUT, they can buy guns and ammo on Armslist from a private seller and then go shoot and kill their spouse. And THIS HAS HAPPENED. Also, gang members with felony records regularly use Armslist to buy guns from private sellers; one was used to kill a Chicago Police Sargent.

2A people don’t care; they won’t budge, AT ALL. EVER.

So maybe we need to wake up and start putting metal detectors everywhere. Everywhere.

I just got back from “Stars on Ice” at the United Center. My purse had to be a very small size, searched, and we all had to go through metal detectors. For a show featuring Olympic figure skaters. And that’s okay.

Edit: but it wouldn’t have helped in Buffalo

[elevenism]

^^^
Church

[Ruined]

These gun owner arguments centered on the notion that gun laws are useless because mass shooters won't follow these laws are ridiculous. So, by that line of thinking, I guess you think we should have no laws? Make rape legal since rapists won't follow the law, etc.? Using that theory, you cannot cherry-pick which laws won't be followed: It's really all or nothing. So are you going to simply state we should have no laws based on the notion that criminals don't follow the law?

[allegro]

Exactly.

Every law is therefore useless or a slippery slope, to them.

Also, ever notice that they NEVER come to the defense of BLACK PEOPLE legally owning guns?!? EVER???

EVERY case of a cop killing a black person even IN THEIR OWN HOME who legally owned a gun “must have been because that person was doing something wrong.”

White people? VIOLATION OF THEIR RIGHT TO 2A!!!

[allegro]

So, the Buffalo shooting, per reports:

Shooter guy was wearing head-to-toe body armor, including helmet.

Retired police sargent was working security at the door, armed.

Shooter guy shoots and kills at least 3 people in the parking lot, then walks in and starts picking off black people and spewing racist filth.

Armed security shoots guy in the chest, but shooter guy is wearing that body armor. Guy shoots and kills security.

Shooter eventually removes his body armor, put down his AR-15 and turns himself in to cops.

Police and DoJ have deemed this a hate crime.

The shooter live-streamed the shooting. He’s 18, and traveled from hours away to the predominantly black area in Buffalo, NY just to kill black people.

He had a manifesto.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/05/15/us/buffalo-supermarket-shooting-sunday/index.html


New York Gov. Kathy Hochul said the AR-15 used in the shooting was purchased legally in a gun store in New York state but was illegally modified with a high-capacity magazine.

"What has made this so lethal, and so devastating for this community, was the high-capacity magazine that would have had to have been purchased elsewhere, that's not legal in the state of New York," she said.

[BRoswell]

Police eventually turns himself in, and cops put guns to shooter guy’s neck (his only vulnerable area).

Cops should have done something right for once and pulled the trigger.

[allegro]

Cops should have done something right for once and pulled the trigger.

Report I linked said he (shooter) actually took off his body armor and put down his gun.

Had the shooter been a BLACK GUY, I suspect the cops would have pumped him full of lead.

In this case, they probably took him for lunch at Burger King (https://abc7.com/dylann-roof-south-carolina-church-shooting-emanuel-african-methodist-episcopal/801013/).

[Self.Destructive.Pattern]

Someone's friend was invited to his discord server where he is trying to buy and sell armor, and even has posts of him planning it out months in advance. They sent the posts to the FBI, but it is so haunting reading the things he was posting. He also has racist words painted on the shaft of his gun...

In the video, he finds someone cowering on the floor and he actually says sorry to them and that is when the video cuts out shortly after... The person was white apparently that he spared.

What gets me the most is, you find someone that just shot up a supermarket, and they are patting him down as he stands there like he stole a fucking candy bar.

This will never end. Guns are so embedded into the bedrock of this society, I'm surprised a gun isn't on the flag somewhere.

Edit: Apparently, Virginia Sorenson’s name was reportedly written on the shooters gun from the Waukesha parade massacre. There are plenty of photos at this point.

[Jinsai]

I'm talking about sensible reform, and coming at a very serious issue and addressing it as such with cutting the cute bullshit, semantics, and coy nonsense out of the equation. I feel like owning a rifle or a handgun or two is fine; depending on situation it could be considered common sense to have some high powered self defense.

But nobody needs an arsenal that could supply an army with stuff that looks like it belongs on a battlefield or in a video game. Nobody needs 50 thousand rounds of ammunition. If you're going to get a gun you should be psychologically evaluated. But the gun lobby views any reform as a slippery slope, or at least they project that perception to their constituents. That's why they dragged their feet on getting rid of bumper stocks that basically turn a semi-auto into a fully-auto.

And at this point, can we please tell the impassioned "hobbyists" to shut up already? We get it. You think guns are fun. We'll address your concerns later, FFS

[Ruined]

Not even 24 hours later: Authorities: 1 killed, 4 hurt in California church shooting (https://t1.news.mcclatchydc.com/r/?id=hf8828a16%2Cf7c388e%2Cbe247c4&ac_cid=DM646367&ac_bid=-125662698&s=k3S_B5Fw9NbgqtHm4O3DEHA23G1SjB5mvdzWKLFOv6Y) (Laguna Hills apparently).
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/multiple-victims-reported-person-detained-california-church-shooting-rcna28937?fbclid=IwAR3a5U2SFRh9Dk7ux3o9rme7pud3KL6 4gMTaIHInmA3PtA1VKm-Ln4ZgtJQ

Update: A Taiwanese congregation was in the church at the time of the shooting, said Undersheriff Jeff Hallock.

[M1ke]

Is it sad, that when I see these headlines these days I just think "at this point, this isn't even news anymore".

[thelastdisciple]

Is it sad, that when I see these headlines these days I just think "at this point, this isn't even news anymore".
We've become desensitized to how normal it's all become, it's like hearing about a traffic collision or some petty theft at this point.

It's like "oh.. really? is that the worst thing that's happened today? pfft... that's small potatoes!"

[M1ke]

We've become desensitized to how normal it's all become, it's like hearing about a traffic collision or some petty theft at this point.

It's like "oh.. really? is that the worst thing that's happened today? pfft... that's small potatoes!"

It's not small potatoes.....I just expect it now, I guess.

But this'll play out like all the others have. There might be some talk in the news cycle, nothing will be done, and it will happen again.

And when it does, the cycle will repeat in an entirely predictable way.

[allegro]

Buffalo shooter subscribed to the “great replacement” theory. https://www.npr.org/2022/05/16/1099034094/what-is-the-great-replacement-theory

It’s everywhere, really:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/gop-candidate-shared-anti-semitic-great-replacement-video-watchdog/

It’s behind their anti-abortion rhetoric:
https://www.adl.org/blog/misogyny-is-a-powerful-undercurrent-of-the-great-replacement-conspiracy-theory-0


Camus’ promotion of white reproduction positions women as both the problem and the solution, and rests on the premise that white women and their falling birth rates are contributing to the destruction and replacement of the white race. As pointed out by Belew, white supremacist magazines responded to the women’s liberation movement by framing abortion and contraception (as well as immigration) as part of the strategy to destroy the white race. Those who believe in the “Great Replacement” are invested in white women having more children and non-white women having fewer children. The wishes of those women are irrelevant.

Focusing on the GUN in Buffalo is all wrong. Every news station should be focusing on the fact that this was a HATE CRIME. By a TERRORIST.

And the ADL is saying that this is only getting worse all the time.

[ninEater]

Last week my partner and I took a 3 hr certification in stopping severe bleeds from GSW, stabbings/ punctures, accidents etc. It was so educational that, by the end of the class, I felt reasonably confident that I could render aid to someone with a severe bleed, should that unthinkable situation arise. I'm an armed leftist (duh) and this stuff is just part and parcel of being a responsible gun owner (allegro knows whatsup). But it also has the added benefit of giving me the feeling of one little iota of control over this terrifying and decaying society. I highly recommend it. I used a local entity but there's a nationwide Stop the Bleed (https://www.stopthebleed.org/) training program.

[october_midnight]

So it's officially like every day now. Cool cool.

https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1529192534693519362

[cdm]

So it's officially like every day now. Cool cool.

https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1529192534693519362

It's now 14 students and 1 teacher DEAD. FUCK. This stupid fucking country.

Edit 7:40pm: 18 students, 3 adults dead.

[ekrekel]

I hate this place.

[thelastdisciple]

Mood.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIm4hdeHwUs

[MxSelfDestruct]

I think that Americans specifically cannot handle gun ownership. The US is a deeply, and (imo) uniquely fucked up country, with a truly sick culture in general, let alone with regards to guns. However, I think it's a bit silly to assert that the existence of guns alone is the cause of gun massacres - people don't see a rifle and immediately think "hey, I should use this to murder a bunch of children!" Humans don't work that way - if we did, we never would have developed civilization. I believe that it would be much more productive for the US to address the reasons people commit gun violence - ie, poverty, mental illness, far-right radicalization - and try and address those. None of this will happen, of course. We all know that the US government would sooner watch a million more children be shot to death than lift a single fucking finger to actually help anybody at all.

[cdm]

I think that Americans specifically cannot handle gun ownership. The US is a deeply, and (imo) uniquely fucked up country, with a truly sick culture in general, let alone with regards to guns. However, I think it's a bit silly to assert that the existence of guns alone is the cause of gun massacres - people don't see a rifle and immediately think "hey, I should use this to murder a bunch of children!" Humans don't work that way - if we did, we never would have developed civilization. I believe that it would be much more productive for the US to address the reasons people commit gun violence - ie, poverty, mental illness, far-right radicalization - and try and address those. None of this will happen, of course. We all know that the US government would sooner watch a million more children be shot to death than lift a single fucking finger to actually help anybody at all.

Are you an NRA plant? Because this is the same 2A bullshit we hear spewed from deranged, gun-toting American idiots.

[MxSelfDestruct]

Are you an NRA plant? Because this is the same 2A bullshit we hear spewed from deranged, gun-toting American idiots.

Buddy if I was with the NRA I wouldn't be saying that Americans should not have guns.

[cdm]

The NRA uses mental illness as cover to protect their “god given” right to arm themselves to the teeth. Yes, all of those issues contribute to the problem. But ALL countries and cultures deal with mental illness and poverty and radicalization of one form or another yet we are the ones with near constant mass shootings. Fix the variable AND the contributing factors. We fucking know guns aren’t the only problem. You’re not breaking any goddamn news to us.

[ekrekel]

I think that Americans specifically cannot handle gun ownership. The US is a deeply, and (imo) uniquely fucked up country, with a truly sick culture in general, let alone with regards to guns. However, I think it's a bit silly to assert that the existence of guns alone is the cause of gun massacres - people don't see a rifle and immediately think "hey, I should use this to murder a bunch of children!" Humans don't work that way - if we did, we never would have developed civilization. I believe that it would be much more productive for the US to address the reasons people commit gun violence - ie, poverty, mental illness, far-right radicalization - and try and address those. None of this will happen, of course. We all know that the US government would sooner watch a million more children be shot to death than lift a single fucking finger to actually help anybody at all.

For any of that to work we'd have to eliminate use of the word gun or anything like it (bang bang stick, thing that goes pew pew, etc.) from the discussion. The second the word is said or alluded to any attempt to develop any meaningful policy disappears. The Gun lobby has too many people in their pocket, in Florida for example there's a bit of a notorious lady representing the gun lobby that will sit in the audience. If anything remotely associated with guns comes up they all look to her for some screwed up gladiator style thumbs up/down before proceeding with their vote or even allowing discussion. Even after Parkland they couldn't even have a discussion about it being a variable, completely shut down.

We somehow need to get amped up and generate support for identifying and addressing the mental health crisis that is causing everyone but white males to, I dunno, jaywalk or take bags of ice from the new cooler instead of emptying the old one first. If the conversation can be shaped around that perhaps we can get somewhere.

Unfortunately the nefarious interests surrounding anything healthcare related in this country exist too. Even though the pharmaceutical industry would love to crank out more $3k/month pills (personal experience), insurance companies don't want to be on the hook for those additional costs, and whenever spending billions of tax dollars is talked about to directly help average citizens, suddenly there's concern over the budget again after we cut taxes on the wealthy ($500k+) by something like $150 billion. Then there's the for profit prison system enjoying each and every one of these people that they can capture. Somewhere out there is a private prison exec upset they don't get to sell the taxpayer a platinum package to house a max security inmate like this dude from Uvalde.

Holy cow that got long winded, sorry. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

Edit, I'm not trying to come off as a 2A apologist stating mental health is the only issue here. I think there should be several laws attempting to curb the insane extent of items apparently covered by a couple of sentences some dudes 250 years wrote. However our current approach is to just say stuff to convince our side the other is being unreasonable then throw hands up and hope things settle before the next shooting. Even if we could only gain any momentum on a single component perhaps it's better than we've been able to do to this point, wishful thinking for sure.

Moar edits: 19 children and 2 teachers dead. Article is saying (https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2022/05/24/live-updates-uvalde-texas-school-shooting/9913969002/) he used a Rifle (gee I wonder what model/style), Body Armor, and fired HUNDREDS of rounds. FUCK

[marodi]

No, this keeps happening - and will keep happening - because the majority of 'Muricans believes it's their God given right to own a gun.

Oh wait, many guns. The more, the better. And anything that could restrict that God given right, like a background check or a registry, is a big no no because the gov'ment cannot look into its citizens like that. And limit their access to ALL THE GUNS.

Please note that nothing that will happen in 'Murica will change these blessed folks' mind. Because Sandy Hook happened and nothing changed. Today was Part 2. And there will be Part 3, 4, 5...

As someone outside the US of A, it's getting really hard to feel sorry for people who don't help themselves. But my empathy does go to the little ones who died and to the little ones who lived. They will live with that for all their lives now.

edit: by the way, today's was the Covid-19 pandemic's fault, because it was soooooo hard on all the teenagers. I heard it on ABC so it must be true!

[allegate]

Dear Vancouver families,


We are deeply saddened by the tragic news of the school shooting in Texas. It is difficult to comprehend this senseless and heartbreaking event. We feel connected to the students, staff, families and communities who have lost loved ones in this tragedy, as well as in past school shootings.


Providing safe and supportive schools for our students is so important. We send our students to school each day expecting them to receive loveand care. We want them to be happy and to fill their day with learning adventures. Tragedies like today’s shooting remind us of the fragility of life.


We all want our children to be able to go to school safely and flourish. We are proactive and have clear plans and procedures to deal with threats and other emergency situations. VPS also has professionally trained security personnel who have a presence at all schools. To learn more about our safety procedures, please visit our website. (https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvansd.org%2Fsafety-and-security%2F&data=05%7C01%7C%7C3b6e9f4cde794281661c08da3ddcfddc %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6378 90316632738802%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4 wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M n0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uEmj%2Fy2nENItdX4R%2BTtLbUFYEQ1D9F2da2WnqFKO Fmo%3D&reserved=0) It takes all of us to be diligent in keeping our schools safe.


If your family needs support, consider the following resources or please reach out to our staff.


In addition, we recommend visiting these websites:
School safety and crisis, National Association of School Psychologists (https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nasponline.org%2Fresources-and-publications%2Fresources%2Fschool-safety-and-crisis&data=05%7C01%7C%7C3b6e9f4cde794281661c08da3ddcfddc %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6378 90316632738802%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4 wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M n0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=QNtB%2FzlFTWlREzM1bJu17xA1ld2AE4CNHuTDzqihr5 I%3D&reserved=0)
Talking to children about violence, National Association of School Psychologists (https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nasponline.org%2Fresources-and-publications%2Fresources%2Fschool-safety-and-crisis%2Ftalking-to-children-about-violence-tips-for-parents-and-teachers&data=05%7C01%7C%7C3b6e9f4cde794281661c08da3ddcfddc %7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C6378 90316632738802%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4 wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M n0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3qweHmXd9n97RbmKCnaFGvlwzthV5tqbRucS0RKebdI% 3D&reserved=0)

see, what's difficult to comprehend is how this keeps happening and you people keep saying "wow we can't figure this out. what could we do to stop this? well, we've tried nothing so *throws hands in the air*."

[cdm]

No, this keeps happening - and will keep happening - because the majority of 'Muricans believes it's their God given right to own a gun.

No, the majority does not believe this. Gun ownership is under 45%, assault style weaponry less than that. The majority wants stricter gun laws and restrictions. The vast majority wants stricter background checks. THE MAJORITY wants this to change.

[cdm]

1529290011035713536

See above as a rebuttal to anyone who suggests more guards or "resource officers" are the solution to any of this. Similarly an armed guard at the Buffalo supermarket was shot and killed by the shooter. More guns are no match for a shooter with an AR and body armor with the element of surprise. And they want to arm teachers. I wouldn't fucking trust my kid's homeroom teacher with a gun...and that's not at all a knock on her or her judgement. She's a fucking teacher not trained infantry.

Edit: we as a society lionize cops every chance we get. Legislatures bend over backwards to give them more money and then more money after that. We hear so often about how "hard" their jobs are and how "they just want to come home to their families at the end of their shift." So then why is it such a fucking ask to apply those same thoughts to our kid's teachers? Or our own children? THEIR jobs are hard and THEY just want to go home to THEIR families. Their reward for the jobs they do? Budget cuts, mass shooter drills, and the occasional suggestion they carry a fucking gun to work.

[Deacon Blackfire]

Preach it. The shooter wasn't even wearing body armor, the cops just waited for backup as he entered a school and proceeded to slaughter children. Even in the rare situation where lethal force is appropriate and even necessary, the police seem destined to do the most craven, unhelpful thing possible. More people with guns is not the solution. And the same immediate tired "don't politicize this" schpiel from the right, itself an obvious form of politicization, is as unsurprising as it is infuriating.

Like with most issues now, we are hostage to a minority opinion, held by the outrageously wealthy corrupt assholes who make a buck off of this and the idiotic scum that buy into their asinine talking points.

Pretty much feel this country is beyond saving at this point.

[allegate]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyiaOcqXUAAIeSl?format=jpg&name=large

"I did all I could, guys."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIWMvOlpkxM

I love that he said this is more important than basketball. He's probably going to get fined for it - if he hasn't already - because of the bullshit rules from the league.

[ekrekel]

......the shooter wasn't even wearing body armor, the cops just waited for backup as he entered a school and proceeded to slaughter children. .......


what!?

Seems similar to this article (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61577777)


https://www.caller.com/videos/news/2022/05/25/uvalde-school-shooting-timeline-police-texas-law-enforcement-spokesperson/9920238002/

SRO engages but cant stop him, 2 local PD engage but cant stop him, sometime over the next 45 minutes a tactical team comes in and ends it. 3 people with guns employed to stop threats were not able to do so, so they wait?

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/LEBassett/status/1529274093157105665

well, to be fair, friendly fire is a thing.

https://twitter.com/longwall26/status/1529272218806538241

[allegro]

what!?

Seems similar to this article (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61577777)


https://www.caller.com/videos/news/2022/05/25/uvalde-school-shooting-timeline-police-texas-law-enforcement-spokesperson/9920238002/

SRO engages but cant stop him, 2 local PD engage but cant stop him, sometime over the next 45 minutes a tactical team comes in and ends it. 3 people with guns employed to stop threats were not able to do so, so they wait?

Yeah the shooter was wearing body armor, like the shooter in Buffalo. Edit: No, guess he wasn’t. Cops were shooting at him as he crashed his car near the building. Edit: Cops can’t shoot. (Briefly engage means SHOOTING AT HIM!) He blasted his way into the school and took out an entire classroom.

Per WaPo:


A team of three Border Patrol agents from the agency’s elite BORTAC swat unit entered the school with a ballistic shield and killed Ramos, according to a federal law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity to provide preliminary details.


One of the agents was shot in the foot and grazed in the head in the exchange of gunfire with Ramos, the official said.


Ramos had been firing at police out the windows, then fired at the BORTAC agents as they unlocked the classroom door to confront him.


The BORTAC unit had been investigating stash houses used by smuggling organizations along the border west of Uvalde when agents received the call. They arrived to the school at 11:59 am, the official said.

 BORTAC units are Border Patrol tactical agents who are trained to confront armed trafficking groups or work in high-risk environments and operations.

He was carrying like a BUNCH of AR-15 mags that he bought with the guns? They found over THREE HUNDRED ROUNDS. THREE HUNDRED.


STOP SELLING MAGS WITH SO MUCH AMMO! Stop selling these guns!!

[cdm]

what!?

Seems similar to this article (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61577777)

SRO engages but cant stop him, 2 local PD engage but cant stop him, sometime over the next 45 minutes a tactical team comes in and ends it. 3 people with guns employed to stop threats were not able to do so, so they wait?

Under the previous tactical methodology (think Columbine) this would have been the recommended procedure. However in studying the response to Columbine they realized they exercised far too much caution in waiting to gather personnel, a decision that cost lives. They've since revised policy in much of the country in which police are not to wait for a tactical team and instead engage with the shooter aggressively, in small numbers if necessary to stop the threat as quickly as possible. You might remember, there was considerable debate after Parkland because the SRO was found to have actively AVOIDED engaging the shooter and was later charged criminally for his inactivity.

It's probably too soon to understand exactly what happened and when (and how quickly) but there, again, seem to be have been some questionable decisions made.

[Deacon Blackfire]

He wasn't wearing body armor - he was wearing "a plate carrier with no ballistic armor inside" (https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2022/05/24/suspect-info-heres-what-we-know-about-the-18-year-old-shooter-who-officials-say-killed-his-grandmother-14-students-and-1-teacher/)

[ekrekel]

Under the previous tactical methodology (think Columbine) this would have been the recommended procedure. However in studying the response to Columbine they realized they exercised far too much caution in waiting to gather personnel, a decision that cost lives. They've since revised policy in much of the country in which police are not to wait for a tactical team and instead engage with the shooter aggressively, in small numbers if necessary to stop the threat as quickly as possible. You might remember, there was considerable debate after Parkland because the SRO was found to have actively AVOIDED engaging the shooter and was later charged criminally for his inactivity.

It's probably too soon to understand exactly what happened and when (and how quickly) but there, again, seem to be have been some questionable decisions made.

Yeah, I recall that part of the debate around Columbine and controversy at Parkland. Didn't that guy commit suicide?

Those kids at some point certainly saw the SRO and were told they were "here to protect you". That role needs to require some serious commitment and pay needs to be adjusted appropriately. Those kids have to be YOUR KIDS. Oh you have 2 at home, congrats you now have 602.

I'm beginning to think we need a military presence in each school. We spend $800 Billion on military every year for ~1.7M active military personnel. Is having a student security branch of the military really that outlandish? USSS's highest rank pays $160k to put their life on the line for the president, we need 100k of those. That's $16 Billion, add another $6B for R&D, equipment refresh whatever keeps these folks interested and engaged now we're at $22B. Same training practices, tech, retreats, drive the school golf cart backwards and pit maneuvers and what not. Job application question #1: "What is more important to you; you going home safe or every one of these kids going home safe?" and you do yearly reviews of the classified versions of all US school shooting reports as a reminder of the stakes and the commitment they've made.

[cdm]

I'm beginning to think we need a military presence in each school. We spend $800 Billion on military every year for ~1.7M active military personnel. Is having a student security branch of the military really that outlandish?

No, god no, yes it is...in that order.

The Parkland [former] deputy is alive and his case is still in the courts. A judge allowed the case to proceed in Aug of last year.

[allegro]

OH MY GOD!!!

Beto just interrupted Abbot’s press conference! To yell at Abbott!

There’s screaming and yelling!!

Omg!!

[allegate]

man and I just closed twitter.

[allegro]

He wasn't wearing body armor - he was wearing "a plate carrier with no ballistic armor inside" (https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2022/05/24/suspect-info-heres-what-we-know-about-the-18-year-old-shooter-who-officials-say-killed-his-grandmother-14-students-and-1-teacher/)

Then, as usual, these cops are TERRIBLE shooters. They don’t do actual target shooting; they use simulators. Which makes them terrible shooters. A specialist SWAT team had to take him out.

[ickyvicky]

Beto interuppting: https://www.statesman.com/videos/news/2022/05/25/beto-orourke-confronts-governor-greg-abbott-uvalde-mass-shooting-update/9928905002/

"Sick son of a bitch"???? Are you serious??

[Jinsai]

I posted a while back about the discovery of a hidden recording of NRA heads talking about how to handle the optics of Coumbine shortly after it happened, but I feel like it's worth posting again, and maybe every time something "like this" happens.

https://www.npr.org/2021/11/09/1049054141/a-secret-tape-made-after-columbine-shows-the-nras-evolution-on-school-shootings?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=npr&fbclid=IwAR16rt7cHEQb7-VpaNAL60tm9f7GPq5r1rRUaoG0Xj-zFozoKaZ6G3HM9cM

[ekrekel]

No, god no, yes it is...in that order.

The Parkland [former] deputy is alive and his case is still in the courts. A judge allowed the case to proceed in Aug of last year.

Not looking for a deployed unit, essentially asking for skills more in line with what could be effective in these situations. Federal, State, don't care, upgrade the SRO role.

[allegro]

I fucking hate those guns so fucking much.

They can’t even IDENTIFY many of these kids!!!

They can’t use dental records!! They’re using DNA swabs!!!

God damnit when are these evil fucking 2A assholes gonna give up these GI Joe guns to end this?

[cdm]

In a shocking turn of events republicans are calling for action…that being: the “hardening” of schools with one door in and out. Craven ass motherfuckers.

[thelastdisciple]

In a shocking turn of events republicans are calling for action…that being: the “hardening” of schools with one door in and out. Craven ass motherfuckers.
I'm sure fire marshals would have something to say about this.

[allegro]

In a shocking turn of events republicans are calling for action…that being: the “hardening” of schools with one door in and out. Craven ass motherfuckers.

Parkland had that.

These people are greedy morons.

[allegate]

Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school (https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-44a7cfb990feaa6ffe482483df6e4683)


Frustrated onlookers urged police officers to charge into the Texas elementary school where a gunman’s rampage killed 19 children and two teachers, witnesses said Wednesday, as investigators worked to track the massacre that lasted upwards of 40 minutes and ended when the 18-year-old shooter was killed by a Border Patrol team.

“Go in there! Go in there!” nearby women shouted at the officers soon after the attack began, said Juan Carranza, 24, who saw the scene from outside his house, across the street from Robb Elementary School in the close-knit town of Uvalde. Carranza said the officers did not go in.

I hope this is in a lot of campaign ads over the summer.

https://i.insider.com/628e71c23dbbd20018b73955?width=1136&format=jpeg

[allegro]

^ wtf re police


Also, seeing Beto doing that was awesome. It was important that he do that.

Also awesome were the people yelling “1st amendment!” and “Free speech!!” as Beto was being escorted out of the auditorium by police.

The greedy morons’ 2A rights always seem to trump everyone’s 1A rights.

[allegro]

No, the majority does not believe this. Gun ownership is under 45%, assault style weaponry less than that. The majority wants stricter gun laws and restrictions. The vast majority wants stricter background checks. THE MAJORITY wants this to change.

Yup, here’s a good article:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2022/05/senate-state-bias-filibuster-blocking-gun-control-legislation/638425/


The Pew polling (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/09/13/key-facts-about-americans-and-guns/) found that significant majorities of Americans support background checks (81 percent), an assault-weapons ban (63 percent), and a ban on high-capacity ammunition magazines (64 percent); a majority also opposes concealed carry of weapons without a permit. Majorities of Republicans who don’t own guns shared those opinions, as did Democratic gun owners, by even more lopsided margins. Even most Republicans who do own guns said in the polling that they support background checks and oppose permitless concealed carry (which more red states, including Texas, are authorizing). Despite all of this, Republican elected officials, in their near-lockstep opposition to gun control, have bent to groups like the NRA in equating almost any restrictions as a sign of disrespect to the values of red America.

When Congress, during Clinton’s first term, created the national background-check system through the Brady Bill and later approved a ban on assault weapons (which has since expired), significant numbers of congressional Democrats representing rural constituencies opposed the legislation, while significant numbers of Republicans with big suburban constituencies supported it. But three decades of electoral re-sorting has significantly shrunk both of those groups. As a result, when the House passed its universal-background-check bill in 2021, only eight Republicans voted for it, while just a single Democrat voted against it.

[elevenism]

I'm beginning to think we need a military presence in each school. We spend $800 Billion on military every year for ~1.7M active military personnel. Is having a student security branch of the military really that outlandish? USSS's highest rank pays $160k to put their life on the line for the president, we need 100k of those. That's $16 Billion, add another $6B for R&D, equipment refresh whatever keeps these folks interested and engaged now we're at $22B. Same training practices, tech, retreats, drive the school golf cart backwards and pit maneuvers and what not. Job application question #1: "What is more important to you; you going home safe or every one of these kids going home safe?" and you do yearly reviews of the classified versions of all US school shooting reports as a reminder of the stakes and the commitment they've made.

Church. I agree.

ALSO:
There are more guns than people in the US.
Guns aren't going ANYWHERE, unless we become a totalitarian fascist state.
That would require a bloody, gvmt vs citizens war...in other words, a decimation of the US population, and the end of the US as we know it.
I'm pretty sure nobody wants that.

So, this is what we have to work with. This is how it is. Period.

We can pass H.R. 8 (except the republicans are beholden to the gun lobby).
We should try to pass it NOW, though, and get every senator on record saying NO to a bill that would put just a LITTLE dent in this shit.

But no gun law will fix this completely. This is just how it is. This is America in 2022. The best we can do, i think, is highly trained guards at schools, armed with assault rifles and clothed in the best, top secret bulletproof technology money can buy.
Same with places of worship.

We should ALSO, (and some schools are already like this), have the doors LOCKED, and opened only when they're supposed to be opened, by someone at the front office. This includes classroom doors and ALL doors.

Edit: Also, as allegro mentioned, there are a FUCKTON of polls that show that americans want SOME degree of gun control, including the stunning 2019 pew poll showing 90% of registered voters, and 77% of REPUBLICANS, supporting universal background checks.

THis is minority rule. This is what it looks like. Get ready for a lot more of it.

[botley]

www.theonion.com

[sweeterthan]

do we even need the onion when the asshole governor is quoted as saying “it could’ve been worse”? fuck him for saying that. that’s some dismissive callous bullshit from anyone but he’s the governor. everything about this sucks. i hate it for these families.

i saw some conservatives on fb saying “biden was vice president when sandy hook happened”. yeah he was. he tried to push on several actionable items afterwards and the republican led congress did nothing. do these people pay attention or not? what do they need to see that it’s their elected officials who let this happen?

[allegate]

I accidentally clicked on the thread instead of the 'show newest'

Shooting in CT. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/reports-of-multiple-deaths-including-children-gunman-in-connecticut-school-shooting/article6360052/)

Yeahhhh...I still think your country needs some more gun control.

Jesus Christ.


do we even need the onion when the asshole governor is quoted as saying “it could’ve been worse”? fuck him for saying that. that’s some dismissive callous bullshit from anyone but he’s the governor. everything about this sucks. i hate it for these families.

i saw some conservatives on fb saying “biden was vice president when sandy hook happened”. yeah he was. he tried to push on several actionable items afterwards and the republican led congress did nothing. do these people pay attention or not? what do they need to see that it’s their elected officials who let this happen?
it's always the President's fault if it's a Democrat but "our hands are tied" if it's a Republican with these people.

[botley]

There are more guns than people in the US.
There are more sheep than people in NZ. Therefore it is totally inconceivable that sheep population could one day be controlled, and any measures to restrict the sale or movement of sheep, however incremental or slight, are doomed to fail. Unless New Zealand becomes a totalitarian fascist state.

[cdm]

There are more guns than people in the US.
Guns aren't going ANYWHERE, unless we become a totalitarian fascist state.

Personally I don't think "guns" when discussed in a blanket, one-size-fits-all category are the issue. It's the type of firearms available, as well as the myriad of accessories to make them more efficient killing instruments. There's no reason to own an AR-style or similar assault rifle. None. Are they fun to shoot? Yes, I've shot one at a range. But Joe Public should not be able to own one, IMO. They're not ideal for hunting, nor self defense. There is a very specific reason why these weapons are used in mass killing events: THAT IS LITERALLY WHAT THEY'RE DESIGNED AND MANUFACTURED FOR. I'm tired of these excuses. There's no sporting reason why you should have a 30 round magazine. If you want to get all tacticool and shoot around, go join the military. They have all sorts of cool shit.

There's a lot of shit we could do that doesn't involve taking guns away but the political will isn't there because of lobbying money. Require robust licensing and renewals, require insurance coverage, require registration...all things we're accustomed to with car ownership. Institute nationwide red flag laws and put a program in place to make it work. It's not fucking hard. If I'm pulled over they run my name through at least two databases. Do the same for background checks. Does that cost money? Yes, we can afford it.

Edit: Open carry: get rid of it nationwide. There's literally no reason to open carry a firearm as a private citizen. If you want to concealed carry, fine, do so with proper licensing and insurance I mentioned above, but there is no practical reason why anyone should be able to walk around with a gun hanging off of them. It's basically legal intimidation.

[BRoswell]

I'm beginning to think we need a military presence in each school. We spend $800 Billion on military every year for ~1.7M active military personnel. Is having a student security branch of the military really that outlandish? USSS's highest rank pays $160k to put their life on the line for the president, we need 100k of those. That's $16 Billion, add another $6B for R&D, equipment refresh whatever keeps these folks interested and engaged now we're at $22B. Same training practices, tech, retreats, drive the school golf cart backwards and pit maneuvers and what not. Job application question #1: "What is more important to you; you going home safe or every one of these kids going home safe?" and you do yearly reviews of the classified versions of all US school shooting reports as a reminder of the stakes and the commitment they've made.

Or...we take some of that money and use it for gun regulation and better access to mental health services. Turning schools into fortresses isn't going to help kids who are already stressed the fuck out.

The solution is clearly not "MORE GUNS!" or "MORE GUARDS!". We need to start working on the root of the problem, and we need to start taking some lessons from other nations that have dealt with these issues and made massive changes.

[elevenism]

There are more sheep than people in NZ. Therefore it is totally inconceivable that sheep population could one day be controlled, and any measures to restrict the sale or movement of sheep, however incremental or slight, are doomed to fail. Unless New Zealand becomes a totalitarian fascist state.

Oh, fuck me @botley (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=469) .

That's kind of funny, but you know damn well what I mean.
Sheep aren't armed with automatic weapons, and there isn't a disturbing percentage of sheep who are passionate about keeping such weapons.
Sheep haven't donated hundreds of millions of dollars to buy off congressmen and governors to advance their lethal cause.
And this isn't New Zealand.

It's easy to not understand from Canada, or Sweden, or Australia, but this is HOW IT IS here. There's no undoing it. It's way, way too late.
There are measures we can take, but, no. You can't have a mass confiscation of ANYTHING in the US.

The point is, as you well know: imagine what would happen if the police attempted to.go door.to.door, and confiscate, well, ANYTHING, from a heavily armed society: this one in particular.
There would be a LOT of bloodshed, and it would end this country as we know it.

@cdm (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=3012) , I agree with everything you're saying here. 100%.

BUT, how do we get rid of the AKs and ARs already in the country?

I've got a musician friend who used to make a spectacle out of running over them with tractors: assault rifles donated by people who had seen the light, and wanted their name associated with the artist.
There could be more of that.

We could also do buyback programs wherein the person who bought the gun could get more than they paid for it.

AND, we could (someday, MAYBE), criminalize assault weapons and confiscate them as they're found in criminal investigations.

Edit: and for anyone who thinks I'm some kind of rootin tootin Texas gun nut, I've never fired a fucking gun in my life.
I'm just realistic.

[allegate]

I was unaware that this situation could go from 'worst' to 'fucking hell, man'

https://twitter.com/_Sir_Perfluous/status/1529585786848411651

I already know the timeline is getting fuzzier by the minute but this? oh man.

I told my wife last night that I'll be going to jail a couple of days after whatever jackoff kid shoots up my son's school because their parent(s) is/are going to be in as much pain as everyone else.

We need more suits against the parents.

[elevenism]

Or...we take some of that money and use it for gun regulation and better access to mental health services. Turning schools into fortresses isn't going to help kids who are already stressed the fuck out.

The solution is clearly not "MORE GUNS!" or "MORE GUARDS!". We need to start working on the root of the problem, and we need to start taking some lessons from other nations that have dealt with these issues and made massive changes.

Yeah but, in the meantime, we DO need more guards, and metal detectors and such.
My elementary age niece and nephew are already scared of being shot at school; they've both told me that they want more safety measures.
I mean, this is obviously anecdotal, but in this case, it'd make them FEEL safer, and they'd objectively BE safer.

And if it caused stress to kids, well...stress is better than bullet holes.

SOMETHING has to be done.

[allegate]

https://www.inquirer.com/resizer/1ikIghyf2vVUUKRlHOHfz_eRjSo=/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-pmn/public/WBBABS2WWZDM5PIK2MY2NRC6QA.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ddpq83YVMAEs_Eo.jpg

[allegate]

Yeah but, in the meantime, we DO need more guards, and metal detectors and such.
My elementary age niece and nephew are already scared of being shot at school; they've both told me that they want more safety measures.
I mean, this is obviously anecdotal, but in this case, it'd make them FEEL safer, and they'd objectively BE safer.

And if it caused stress to kids, well...stress is better than bullet holes.

SOMETHING has to be done.objectively the cops either ran away or saved their own and said "fuck you, I've got mine" in a very literal sense.

https://twitter.com/QasimRashid/status/1529847362633576451

https://twitter.com/3ChicsPolitico/status/1529832439513849858

https://twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/status/1529673994026237952

[elevenism]

objectively the cops either ran away or saved their own and said "fuck you, I've got mine" in a very literal sense.

https://twitter.com/QasimRashid/status/1529847362633576451

These cops weren't already IN the school, were they? I'm not talking about local PDs.

There are schools in smaller towns that Uvalde where people have to be buzzed in, and the doors lock and unlock on timers.

I'm sure a couple of armed guards near such an entrance would go a long way towards stopping shit like this.

As for the personnel? Hire better personnel.
Hire the best of the best.

No offense to anyone, but blaming this on mental health was what Greg Abbot did. And I mean, he's certainly not wrong, but there are other measures we can take.

[allegro]

This is just REPREHENSIBLE!!

ALL THESE COPS holding parents back could have been SHOOTING THAT SHOOTER!!!

But the cops are COWARDS!!!

https://twitter.com/AdamKinzinger/status/1529799400784023552?s=20&t=O8kaPVWQNQStYCrXlHPPXA

[ickyvicky]

"Ted Cruz Angrily Quits Interview After Being Confronted About Gun Control"
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/26/ted-cruz-angrily-quits-interview-gun-control



Stone and another reporter pursued, asking, “I just want to understand why you do not think that guns are the problem in America” and “Why is America the only country that makes this kind of mass shooting?”
Stone said: “You can’t answer that, can you, sir?”
Cruz turned. Leaning close to the reporter and jabbing his finger, he said: “Why is it that people come from all over the world to America? Because it’s the freest, most prosperous, safest country on earth.
“And save me the propaganda.”

[cdm]

"Ted Cruz Angrily Quits Interview After Being Confronted About Gun Control"

Good. More of this. More from Beto. Every time these people are in public...more more more.

[allegro]

Oh, fuck me @botley (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=469) .

That's kind of funny, but you know damn well what I mean.
Sheep aren't armed with automatic weapons, and there isn't a disturbing percentage of sheep who are passionate about keeping such weapons.
Sheep haven't donated hundreds of millions of dollars to buy off congressmen and governors to advance their lethal cause.
And this isn't New Zealand.


The “400 million guns in the U.S.” number you see online?

You know the SOURCE?

It wasn’t the federal government or any state. It was a private company (https://www.smallarmssurvey.org/sites/default/files/resources/SAS-BP-Civilian-Firearms-Numbers.pdf).

Here’s their analysis basis:

Box 4 Computation methods for civilian firearms holdings
This Briefing Paper presents estimates from the Small Arms Survey’s Civilian Firearms Holdings 2017 database (Small Arms Survey, 2018). The database estimates are calculated on the basis of the following sources (or mix of sources):
(a) national firearms registration statistics;
(b) general population surveys about firearm ownership (available for 56 countries/ territories);
(c) experts’ estimates of civilian holdings; and,
(d) where none of these was available, analogous comparisons based on estimates for comparable countries.
The database further relies on the analysis of individual reports on civilian firearms ownership from multiple sources, including published official documents and research studies on countries and regions, official responses to questionnaires sent out by the Small Arms Survey, news reports, and private correspondence with experts.

Each state has its own gun laws, per the U.S. Constitution.

This means, by DESIGN, the FEDERAL government has not only no way to totally control national gun sales but also NO WAY TO COUNT THE NUMBER OF GUNS. Most states don’t even HAVE guns registration laws. You can’t “count” what a state doesn’t.


Anyway …
Gov. Greg Abbott signed a law in 2021 that ended the requirement for Texans to obtain a license to carry handguns, allowing virtually anyone over the age of 21 to carry one.

Per WaPo:

Abbott abandoned support for a suggestion in the report that lawmakers consider approving a red-flag law, which would authorize police or family members to petition a court for removal of a firearm from someone considered a threat. Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick (R), an adamant gun rights supporter, strongly opposed that measure.

By that point, Texas ALREADY HAD eight mass shootings over the last 13 years.

[allegate]

These cops weren't already IN the school, were they? I'm not talking about local PDs.

There are schools in smaller towns that Uvalde where people have to be buzzed in, and the doors lock and unlock on timers.

I'm sure a couple of armed guards near such an entrance would go a long way towards stopping shit like this.

As for the personnel? Hire better personnel.
Hire the best of the best.

No offense to anyone, but blaming this on mental health was what Greg Abbot did. And I mean, he's certainly not wrong, but there are other measures we can take.
No.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTqdc4RX0AI6sQk?format=png&name=large

[allegate]

This is just REPREHENSIBLE!!

ALL THESE COPS holding parents back could have been SHOOTING THAT SHOOTER!!!

But the cops are COWARDS!!!

https://twitter.com/AdamKinzinger/status/1529799400784023552?s=20&t=O8kaPVWQNQStYCrXlHPPXA
https://twitter.com/actioncookbook/status/1529812528896819200

Well there's that thorny issue solved. Thanks Herschel!
https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1529871257042358275

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/Ernie_Zuniga/status/1529872688939995136

I know Texas wants to secede so why not let them at this point? Just cut our losses and scratch that star off the flag.

[ickyvicky]

omg thats terrible about the husband :(

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/sfchronicle/status/1529489609880526849

I predict a Supreme Court ruling of "that's not what we were talking about" as they strike this one down.

https://twitter.com/MikeDrucker/status/1529896663942320128

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/wanderlustlaura/status/1529895672710934531

[cdm]

Good thing we give cops near unlimited funding or else this could have been much worse!

[allegate]

Good thing we give cops near unlimited funding or else this could have been much worse!
https://twitter.com/Jeff_Fischer/status/1529523089943449605

[cdm]

oh my god he said it!

[ekrekel]

do we even need the onion when the asshole governor is quoted as saying “it could’ve been worse”? fuck him for saying that. that’s some dismissive callous bullshit from anyone but he’s the governor. everything about this sucks. i hate it for these families.

i saw some conservatives on fb saying “biden was vice president when sandy hook happened”. yeah he was. he tried to push on several actionable items afterwards and the republican led congress did nothing. do these people pay attention or not? what do they need to see that it’s their elected officials who let this happen?

I'm also seeing Obama/Biden were on duty during Vegas, which is bogus since it happened in late 2017.


Or...we take some of that money and use it for gun regulation and better access to mental health services. Turning schools into fortresses isn't going to help kids who are already stressed the fuck out.

The solution is clearly not "MORE GUNS!" or "MORE GUARDS!". We need to start working on the root of the problem, and we need to start taking some lessons from other nations that have dealt with these issues and made massive changes.

My proposal isn't more guards or guns. There are already SROs seemingly at every school with guns. I'm just proposing they be the proper quality personnel, compensated, armed and trained such that they don't shy away from the fact that they are the only thing between 0 and 19 dead kids and 2 dead teachers and do what needs to be done to stop or hold the shooter off until the rest of the district's new SROs and local LE can get there. There are at least 8 schools within a 2.5 mile radius of my son's. Train them all as a unit and if when this happens we're talking minutes before an elite level force is on site.

I don't know what a proper mental health care system costs but I'm all for it, the facts are there is a huge impediment to any actual legislation being passed to support ANYTHING the left proposes, even when it's supported by 75%+ of the population. My take at least seems like something the obstructionists would get behind.


This is just REPREHENSIBLE!!

ALL THESE COPS holding parents back could have been SHOOTING THAT SHOOTER!!!

But the cops are COWARDS!!!

This is gonna sound keyboard tough hyperbole, but in that situation I'm getting tased or shot. My kid is coming out of that school alive or neither of us are.

[allegate]

My proposal isn't more guards or guns. There are already SROs seemingly at every school with guns. I'm just proposing they be the proper quality personnel, compensated, armed and trained such that they don't shy away from the fact that they are the only thing between 0 and 19 dead kids and 2 dead teachers and do what needs to be done to stop or hold the shooter off until the rest of the district's new SROs and local LE can get there. There are at least 8 schools within a 2.5 mile radius of my son's. Train them all as a unit and if when this happens we're talking minutes before an elite level force is on site.
https://twitter.com/DanaGoldstein/status/1529870507402743809

https://twitter.com/SuzyKhimm/status/1529625828895727617


This is gonna sound keyboard tough hyperbole, but in that situation I'm getting tased or shot. My kid is coming out of that school alive or neither of us are.pretty much, yeah. It would take me 25 minutes to get there.

https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1529926658802827269

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/Tom_Winter/status/1529524085759385600

interesting waffle word usage there.

https://twitter.com/noraneus/status/1529791075644317696

[allegate]

Fuck Greg Abbott.

https://twitter.com/MyCancerJourne3/status/1529933105359753218

https://twitter.com/MyCancerJourne3/status/1529933108182515713

[cdm]

1529951434682339328
1529955869428965379
1529964450090041344

Has a major sports team ever done something like this? If they have I don't recall.

[cdm]

1529998117772328964

[ekrekel]

Fuck Greg Abbott.

https://twitter.com/MyCancerJourne3/status/1529933105359753218

https://twitter.com/MyCancerJourne3/status/1529933108182515713

cont’d I was going to ask if they had a nest or other device capture the interaction.
https://twitter.com/mycancerjourne3/status/1529980293368598528?s=21&t=qaTRUm8oDdvizBkFup8wTA

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/Mediaite/status/1529969734048878592

https://media4.giphy.com/media/14e5M1adodXpspqrGT/giphy.gif

[BRoswell]

Yeah but, in the meantime, we DO need more guards, and metal detectors and such.

Nope. That stuff is just a band-aid at this point. It's a distraction. Like I said, we need to get to the root of the problem. It's been staring us in the face this whole time, and until we stop playing games and get serious, it's going to continue to be an issue.

One thing we definitely need to do is cut the NRA out of politics. They're a cancerous growth and need to be treated as such.

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/noraneus/status/1530152774641635331

PLUS

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1530192870304522240

EQUALS

https://twitter.com/another_ellis/status/1530164891461599242

[elevenism]

Nope. That stuff is just a band-aid at this point. It's a distraction. Like I said, we need to get to the root of the problem. It's been staring us in the face this whole time, and until we stop playing games and get serious, it's going to continue to be an issue.

One thing we definitely need to do is cut the NRA out of politics. They're a cancerous growth and need to be treated as such.

Yeah, but the thing is, that's practically impossible.

It could be like, idk, a 10-20 year goal? Like something we could get done next time the left has a supermajority?

These Republican lawmakers run on their grades from the NRA.
They have, and will continue to receive millions and millions of dollars from the gun lobby.

And the NRA's stance is to prevent any and all meaningful action to address this issue.

In other words, we've got to vote these fuckers out of office...but I'm afraid that'll take awhile.

[elevenism]

Hey so this is at least SOME good news.

SIX OUT OF SEVEN musical acts who were set to perform as part of the NRA rally in houston, including Don McLean, and the singer of God Bless the USA, Lee Greenwood, have cancelled.

[sweeterthan]

Hey so this is at least SOME good news.

SIX OUT OF SEVEN musical acts who were set to perform as part of the NRA rally in houston, including Don McLean, and the singer of God Bless the USA, Lee Greenwood, have cancelled.

they were gonna play the event before the shooting so whatever. i guess it’s good that they see the tragedy for what it is and recognize how tone deaf celebrating gun culture in the wake of the shooting is. congrats guys. bravo for having a semi decent thought.

[elevenism]

they were gonna play the event before the shooting so whatever. i guess it’s good that they see the tragedy for what it is and recognize how tone deaf celebrating gun culture in the wake of the shooting is. congrats guys. bravo for having a semi decent thought.

It's better than nothing.

[allegro]

The NRA is over.

The police are over.

This is it.

They left those kids in there to defend themselves and die.

The parents - many assumedly armed - weren’t allowed to go shoot the gunman, save their kids.

A few cops DID go in and get OWN their kids out.

The “Pro Life” Republicans can’t wipe this stink off.

Truth: The NRA is running out of money, and cannot declare bankruptcy. It was also denied the ability to move its HQ to Texas to avoid its debts. Without the constant and consistent influx of cash from donors (which has been waning for decades), and with its constant and wasteful spending, the NRA is on life support and has very little time left.

This means its lobbying and lawsuit days are limited.

Trump was only involved in this convention because of Trump. The GOP was involved solely to line its own pockets.

Gun rights will still be important to a certain percentage of this country. But without the NRA, the voices will be scattered. Oddly enough, the only body that would be there to defend gun rights?

The ACLU.

Oh, how things come full circle.


https://www.courthousenews.com/bankruptcy-blocked-nra-bucks-at-effort-to-dissolve-it/

[ekrekel]

I memed #ThinBlueDottedLine

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTu-WZxWQA0nIWu?format=jpg&name=medium

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/danielmkim/status/1529687298094379009

[allegro]

Jesus, that press conference was devastating.

Students still alive, at risk, suffering, asking for help via 911.

That info not dispatched to commander.

19 officers IN THE HALLWAY not moving because the police chief decided the shooter was barricaded.

But the shooter shot (and killed) students who called 911, shot many students during the time the police chief made the order to wait. The tactical BORTAK SWAT team sat there FORTY-FIVE MINUTES before entering the school.

Worse, a teacher had propped open a locked door to get a cell phone (TWICE) after the teacher heard shots fired outside; that’s how the shooter gained access.*

*EDIT: ALLEGEDLY!

[allegate]

Jesus, that press conference was devastating.

Students still alive, at risk, suffering, asking for help via 911.

That info not dispatched to commander.

19 officers IN THE HALLWAY not moving because the police chief decided the shooter was barricaded.

But the shooter shot (and killed) students who called 911, shot many students during the time the police chief made the order to wait. The tactical SWAT team sat there FORTY-FIVE MINUTES before entering the school.

Worse, a teacher had propped open a door to get a cell phone after the teacher heard shots fired outside; that’s how the shooter gained access.
that's going to be a talking point from them for sure, blaming it on the teacher.

which, ah...

https://twitter.com/kittycatriot6/status/1530226310135562247

the account is protected now but this is a standout that someone had screenshot...ted? shotted? is that a word? Google says no. ah well.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTxC18CWAAEfEqC?format=jpg&name=large

[allegro]

^^ allegate - yup, pretty much.

That door? Reports are showing it has a window. Any gun shoots out the window; you reach in and open the door.

This Texas Ranger chief who did the press conference said that 19 local officers held back IN THE HALLWAY. That’s in the building, right?

The cops, the police chief, and the 911 dispatchers ain’t getting out of this. Nope.

It’s entirely possible that the teacher thought kids could ESCAPE out that door.

I wish the kids sitting around hiding for over 90 minutes could have gotten out the windows.

My husband read on Twitter that a few 911 dispatchers were telling kids who were whispering to SPEAK LOUDER.

Now word is that over 1600 rounds (of the gunman) were found at the scene?

[ekrekel]

^^ @allegate (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1739) - yup, pretty much.

That door? Reports are showing it has a window. Any gun shoots out the window; you reach in and open the door.

This Texas Ranger chief who did the press conference said that 19 local officers held back IN THE HALLWAY. That’s in the building, right?

The cops, the police chief, and the 911 dispatchers ain’t getting out of this. Nope.

It’s entirely possible that the teacher thought kids could ESCAPE out that door.

I wish the kids sitting around hiding for over 90 minutes could have gotten out the windows.

My husband read on Twitter that a few 911 dispatchers were telling kids who were whispering to SPEAK LOUDER.

Now word is that over 1600 rounds (of the gunman) were found at the scene?

LEO/NRA/GOP rejoice as their savior red herring is revealed. Teachers get stuck with the shit end of every other stick, why not one more?

1,600?!!!????!?!??!?????! 7 @30 is what we first heard which is insane enough, he must have had a bag full of 30x magazines. He collected all of this in a week? Texas bar tenders are arrested and liable for overserving, make of that what you will.

"The suspect had purchased 1,657 rounds of ammunition and had 58 magazines at the school, McCraw said. He fired more than 100 rounds during his attack."


Catching up from the CNN video: Gunman shot out the window of the classroom door. There was a fucking window in the door and the cops couldn't get through until the keys arrived?

[allegate]

Fuck Greg Abbott.

https://twitter.com/MyCancerJourne3/status/1529933105359753218

https://twitter.com/MyCancerJourne3/status/1529933108182515713

cont’d I was going to ask if they had a nest or other device capture the interaction.
https://twitter.com/mycancerjourne3/status/1529980293368598528?s=21&t=qaTRUm8oDdvizBkFup8wTA

@MyCancerJourne3
This account doesn’t exist
Try searching for another.huh. that's odd.
https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1529964272628793346

Oh.

https://twitter.com/TraceyDelaney/status/1529984505326587929

Oh.

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/VandomVA/status/1530273558399549440

https://twitter.com/SteveHofstetter/status/1530289773096497152

[Deacon Blackfire]

We've seen a disgusting and shameful number of times that our police will routinely kill innocent, unarmed people because they see threats wherever they want to and prioritize their own safety and well being over everyone else's to a ludicrous degree. The police response to the Uvalde shooting shows, with horrifying clarity, just how far they place their own safety and well-being over the safety and well-being of the citizens they are allegedly supposed to be protecting. All the victims were killed in one room, the room the police left the shooter in as they waited in the hall, listening his gunshots as he butchered a roomful of children. They used more immediate physical force on the hysterical parents trying to save the lives of their children than they did on the shooter, pepper-spraying and cuffing the people in mortal terror who had the gall to tell them to do their fucking job, as they ensured their own safety by guaranteeing a room full of dead kids. The sociopathic callousness of their cowardice is staggering. Every opportunity they had to avert or even just mitigate this nightmare was intentionally squandered, because nothing was more important than their own safety.

These are the people who want our society to revere them and treat them as heroes, who want credit for being brave and selfless protectors of our community and yet whenever it's time to put up or shut up innocent people die because their most important objective is apparently getting home to their families. Fuck that. This is the conduct of miserable cowardly pigs, who inhale the lion's share of municipal budgets to protect and serve themselves more than anyone else. It has been obvious for some time but I struggle to imagine a more nakedly damning example of their commitment to their own self-preservation.

And yet somehow that piece of shit Tucker Carlson has been more critical of how the police handled the situation than Joe Biden, who wasted no time in kissing their ass. Blaming "defund the police" is one of the Dems' favorite excuses for their losses in the past few years, even though these losses were almost exclusively by candidates and officials who took pains to suck up to cops and distance themselves from anything resembling that kind of reform. And even now, in the aftermath of the starkest imaginable illustration of how ineffective cops are at protecting anything besides themselves, they keep licking their boots. Reminds me of last week when Amy Klobuchar tweeted (https://twitter.com/amyklobuchar/status/1528161729494102021)about how they were designating it "National Police Week" to honor officers and noting that 576 officers died "in the line of duty" in 2021 - while not noting that the vast majority of those deaths, 444, were casualties from fucking Covid-19.

They demand gratitude and respect by inflating this idea that their job is so particularly dangerous. But there are a lot of jobs more dangerous than being a cop (https://www.businessinsider.com/the-most-dangerous-jobs-in-america-2018-7?op=1). In fact it should be clear by now that their main job is making sure they aren't in any danger, bystanders and schoolchildren be damned. The whole "Protect and Serve" bit is just a useful fantasy narrative for them. At this point we know who they really protect and serve.

[allegro]

CeEznYiJcZa

[allegro]

Ummmm
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1529617207235252224?s=20&t=zJ6ixpjiwpnCjiOzza6cDA

[BRoswell]

"Let's see: we've tried to blame doors and transgender people for this, but that doesn't seem to be working. Have we tried blaming Covid lockdowns yet?"

I can't wait for them to blame abortions and veganism next. That'll be fun.

[chuckrh]

Melt them all down & use the material to make shelters for the homeless

[elevenism]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7YjX13wbLXk


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mBcepYzYlJo

[elevenism]

Melt them all down & use the material to make shelters for the homeless
The NRA members? That's pretty grim, but I get it. It MIGHT work.

[chuckrh]

The NRA members? That's pretty grim, but I get it. It MIGHT work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2aH9tu4s30

[allegro]

Texas Gov Abbott says Chicago so dangerous.

https://www.live5news.com/2022/05/29/agency-1-dead-7-injured-oklahoma-festival-shooting/?outputType=amp

https://www.foxnews.com/us/tennessee-shooting-victims-chattanooga-police.amp

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/2022-05-27/states-with-the-most-school-shootings

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/gun-deaths-by-state


Here are the 10 states with the highest rates of gun death, 2018:

1. Alaska (23 per 100,000 people)
2. Alabama (21.4 per 100,000 people)
3. Louisiana (21.2 per 100,000 people)
4. Mississippi (19.8 per 100,000 people)
5. Oklahoma (19.6 per 100,000 people)
6. Montana (19 per 100,000 people)
7. Missouri (18.8 per 100,000 people)
8. New Mexico (18.2 per 100,000 people)
9. Arkansas (17.7 per 100,000 people)
10. South Carolina (17.7 per 100,000 people)

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2022/new-report-highlights-us-2020-gun-related-deaths-highest-number-ever-recorded-by-cdc-gun-homicides-increase-by-more-than-one-third


The year 2020 also saw a record number of gun sales. The report cites research that found that nearly twice as many of these new guns showed up at crime scenes in 2020 than in 2019.

The report found wide variations among states. States with the highest gun death rates in 2020 were rural states in the South or West. Mississippi had the highest rate of gun deaths in 2020: 28.63 per 100,000 deaths, followed by Louisiana at 26.26 per 100,000, and Wyoming at 25.9 per 100,000. Conversely, Hawaii had the lowest gun death rate: 3.37 per 100,000, followed by Massachusetts at 3.74 per 100,000 deaths, and New Jersey at 5.03 per 100,000.

The researchers note that the states with the lowest gun death rates have stronger gun laws. Each of the five states with the lowest gun death rate had both the following gun laws in place in 2020: 1) a firearm purchaser licensing law or a waiting period; and 2) an Extreme Risk Protection Order law. Purchaser licensing laws require an individual to apply for and obtain a license before purchasing a firearm. Extreme Risk Protection Order laws are mechanisms to temporarily remove firearms from individuals at risk for suicide or violence against others.

Conversely, states that had the highest gun death rates in 2020 had stand-your-ground legislation, or laws that authorize individuals to use lethal force even in situations they might have otherwise been able to walk away from, and three of the five had permitless carry laws, which allow individuals to carry a concealed gun in public without a permit.

[allegro]

The Democrats can (and I hate even typing these words in light of this horrible tragedy) use the momentum of this tragedy and keep it going to continue to push for the gun legislation they’ve been pushing since ‘04, when the last assault weapons ban expired.

This tragedy and cop crime has pissed off the proverbial soccer moms. That’s a HUGE voting bloc.

Progressives need to come up with a different term than “defund police.” Honestly, this has been discussed alllll over social media; to soccer moms and the general population, this means “no police, and anarchy.” They all think this is ridiculous and many many millions of voters are 100% against this. BLACK voters have expressed their anger at the idea of getting rid of police; black voters in bad neighborhoods in Chicago have loudly said they’re pissed off that they pay taxes and don’t get ANY police; they want MORE police, and if you listen to them, here, they want the Mayor to send WAY MORE community policing and funding to their neighborhoods. However, they also don’t want SHITTY POLICE. They don’t want CORRUPT police. They want 100% reform. And they believe they can get that, because they PAY for the police. And the term “reform” has never been good enough, true. But “defund” literally means “prevent from continuing to receive funds.” Which means eliminate, because no funds. So nobody will vote for that. So hello Republican rule until the end of time? Bad publicity strategy. Unless you like losing. Reallocate funds to several different specialties, yes. Absolutely. Demand accountability and transparency, hell yes. Independent review boards. Demand that police unions pay for settlements from cop misconduct suits, NOT taxpayers.

Effective gun legislation must go MUCH farther than background checks. People LIE on them; the feds fuck them up and people fly under the fed radar. That’s not “the” solution. It wouldn’t have helped, here. People need to stop repeating that. It doesn’t help.

We need to either totally ban all weapons designated as “assault” and/or require FEDERAL registration for those weapons (like we do now for some other weapons). We need to ban the purchase of multiple mags. We need to limit the number of rounds per mag. We need to FEDERALLY ban private sales. We need FEDERAL waiting period requirements. We need a FEDERAL law to increase the legal age to purchase any gun to 21. We need a FEDERAL extreme risk protection order law, and red-flag law, since states are too fucking stupid.

If all of this means AMENDING 2A (which - remember - was an AMENDMENT as part of the “Bill of Rights”), THEN LET’S DO THAT.

2A does not even protect HUNTING. It doesn’t protect you from your STATE government. It only RECENTLY was interpreted to protect you individually (Heller). It’s incredibly VAGUE. It doesn’t protect your ability to have deadly weapons at the expense of children. What happened to the “right to life?”

HUMAN BEINGS were beaten, raped, and bred as livestock for hundreds of years, here; our allegedly-beloved Constitution protected that activity, and saw black people as not human, not citizens, not worthy of any rights at all. Women, also not given any rights; not afforded the right to vote for 144 years.

The Constitution isn’t a sacred document; it’s crap. It’s just a legal document created by rich white men, for the benefit of rich white men.

[Swykk]

Wouldn’t have expected New Mexico on that list allegro.

[elevenism]

We SHOULD have done all this shit a long, long time ago.

I grew up with friends showing me their ak's and ar's and uzi's: kids selling dope, or who just wanted to be hardcore. That was over 20 years ago.
Those guns have likely been sold, repeatedly, at this point.

I support everything you propose in your post, except, again, it's utterly impossible to have any sort of door to door confiscation in this country. I KNOW you said and/or.

Amending the second amendment: while it's a fine idea, I don't think we'll see that in OUR lifetimes.

Gun bullshit: there's too much right wing politics around it. It's insane.

[allegro]

NOBODY is proposing door-to-door confiscation. I NEVER proposed that. I have friends and relatives who own these guns. I’ve held them, myself! They’re like a stupid toy, I don’t grok the fascination.

My BROTHER HAS AN AK!!

Confiscation wasn’t part of the ban in 1994!!

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...03hr4296rh.pdf

Read the fucking law!!

This doom and gloom “lie back and let them fuck us, there’s nothing we can do” is defeatist bullshit to which I do not subscribe.

The Senate has not had enough of a majority to make these changes, the Republicans are using this as a way to GET ELECTED as well as collect MILLIONS in donations.

It’s only now that many REPUBLICANS are again saying ENOUGH. Bipartisanship is what helped push the FIRST ban through.

REAGAN supported it!!

YOUNG PEOPLE are going to SAVE this country. They’ve had ENOUGH of this bullshit.

[elevenism]

NOBODY is proposing door-to-door confiscation.

That wasn’t fine with the ban in 1994!!

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/BILLS-103hr4296rh/pdf/BILLS-103hr4296rh.pdf

Read the fucking law!!
Well, as much as I love Beto, he kind of proposed it.

94: Brady Bill?

I've kind of got a defeatist attitude with this shit.

YES, raise age to 21, federally. YES, federal background checks. YES, ban assault weapons (unless you can prove you need them to kill wild boars; this is an actual issue where I live).
HELL YES to red flag laws, and cool off periods.
Yes, get rid of high capacity magazines, and switches, and ghost guns.

(I wonder why Obama didn't do all of this in 08-2010? Let's think about that one).

Ultimately, this is just how this country is, though. We can enact all of these measures, (not that we WILL) and we won't see things get better anytime soon.
That's my fear.

[allegro]

The Brady Bill was completely different, separate.

I linked the assault ban above, which was a subsection of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994.

Obama had 60 Senators for only 4 months.

There was NO way Congress would have passed anything like this during Obama. THE GOP HATED OBAMA.

Beto didn’t write a federal bill. Presidents can’t write or change legislation. The President is the Executive, Executes laws.


You can kill wild boars with a bow and arrow. G’s cousin ONLY bow-hunts, for deer etc. (he eats everything he kills, freezes everything, makes all kinds of stuff). Bow hunting requires ACTUAL SKILL. Pointing an AR and just blasting 30 .223 ammo in the general direction of your target requires zero skill.

[elevenism]

NOBODY is proposing door-to-door confiscation. I NEVER proposed that. I have friends and relatives who own these guns. I’ve held them, myself! They’re like a stupid toy, I don’t grok the fascination.

My BROTHER HAS AN AK!!

Confiscation wasn’t part of the ban in 1994!!

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/BILLS-103hr4296rh/pdf/BILLS-103hr4296rh.pdf

Read the fucking law!!

This doom and gloom “lie back and let them fuck us, there’s nothing we can do” is defeatist bullshit to which I do not subscribe.

The Senate has not had enough of a majority to make these changes, the Republicans are using this as a way to GET ELECTED as well as collect MILLIONS in donations.

It’s only now that many REPUBLICANS are again saying ENOUGH. Bipartisanship is what helped push the FIRST ban through.

REAGAN supported it!!

YOUNG PEOPLE are going to SAVE this country. They’ve had ENOUGH of this bullshit.

OBAMA promised to enshrine Roe into law on day one. Then, he sort of like...didn't?
They could have passed whatever the fuck they wanted with a filibuster proof majority, were it brought to the floor.

Young people. Yes. Someday.

I JUST said I agreed with pretty much everything you said.

The problem is twofold: the best we can do is try to vote Ted Cruz and his ilk out of office.

The other problem is that THESE GUNS ARE EVERYWHERE. No confiscation, well...that's what I mean. This shit won't change in our lifetimes.

Also, the party that seems to be the most motivated ain't the one concerned about gun laws.

Politics is about power. That's all 99% of them care about.
Also, bipartisanship is OVER. Note that the only moderate lawmakers are the most hated by their own parties.

I'm not sitting back and letting anyone fuck me. I tried to organize a local left wing group with the 9 other people in my county who didn't vote for trump.

I email my house rep and senators constantly.

I went and talked with Beto when he came to a nearby town.

I'M just being realistic.

This is America, home of the gun.

[allegro]

OBAMA promised to enshrine Roe into law on day one. Then, he sort of like...didn't?
They could have passed whatever the fuck they wanted with a filibuster proof majority, were it brought to the floor.


In 2007, Obama said that he’d sign the Freedom of Choice Act.

Look what happened to that in Congress. That wasn’t Obama’s fault. It became less of a priority because there were other priorities that Congress immediately focused on (Lily Ledbetter, Souter retirement, etc.)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_Choice_Act

Bipartisanship is back when the young people take over, expect change.

That is, so long as Trump doesn’t take over and stay there, by removing Presidential term limits and pretty much making the U.S. the same as Russia and China. Which is entirely possible. Then, it’s all over.

Re no confiscation: Nothing will ELIMINATE gun violence. No law eliminates ANY crime. Murder laws don’t eliminate murders. Robbery laws don’t eliminate robberies. Etc. etc. But there is EVIDENCE that stricter gun laws reduce the number of shootings. All laws are deterrents.

People point at Chicago. One of the biggest problems in Chicago is that Gary Indiana is REALLY close to Chicago. Tons of guns come into Chicago via Indiana. That’s a big problem; Indiana’s guns end up killing Chicagoans.

[Swykk]

Can confirm Indiana’s super lax gun laws and that Gary serves as a gun supplier to Chicago.

[elevenism]

In 2007, Obama said that he’d sign the Freedom of Choice Act.

Look what happened to that in Congress. That wasn’t Obama’s fault...

Ok, it wasn't Obama's fault ENTIRELY.

But it was GODDAMN sure the fault of the Democratic party. (for the record, that doesn't mean I'm a republican. I'm more of a Left Libertarian/Social Utopianist).

And I'm becoming cynical and jaded in my forties.
To ME, a lot of the time, it would appear that things COULD get done, but they don't.
If they DID, well, what would you run on next time?

ANYWAY:

It appears that there may be an emergency special legislative session in Texas on guns.

We've got some badass leftist lawmakers in this ALMOST purple state: last year, the dems didn't show up for the republicans special "fuck people out of voting" session.

[allegro]

Ok, it wasn't Obama's fault ENTIRELY.

But it was GODDAMN sure the fault of the Democratic party.

Not every Democrat in Congress is totally pro-Choice.

A HUGE number of Democrats back then were NOT pro-choice.

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/01/26/381472527/abortion-vote-shows-how-much-democrats-world-has-changed

[Jinsai]

I think a lot of the blame behind why we can't get anything done is because we're still struggling to tell people like this (in the video below) to shut the fuck up and sit down already. I know it sounds dumb, but in some ways it really is unfortunately this stupid. Guns are part of an identity for a lot of people in this country. The fetishizing and extreme hobby BS... That's really what I think about when people ask "what is different about America compared to other countries where guns are legal and this shit doesn't happen?"

It's because this sort of shit doesn't happen anywhere else either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtUOopHPlMc

[elevenism]

....

[allegro]

I think a lot of the blame behind why we can't get anything done is because we're still struggling to tell people like this (in the video below) to shut the fuck up and sit down already. I know it sounds dumb, but in some ways it really is unfortunately this stupid. Guns are part of an identity for a lot of people in this country for a lot of people. The fetishizing and extreme hobby BS... That's really what I think about when people ask "what is different about America compared to other countries where guns are legal and this shit doesn't happen?"

^^^ This. Deliberate provocation at a fucking Chili’s. Private companies don’t have to give you 2nd Amendment rights.

It’s grown to this level. And if you studied the ROOTS of it?

You’d find rampant hardcore racism.

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/08/racism-gun-control-dying-of-whiteness

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/02/1002107670/historian-uncovers-the-racist-roots-of-the-2nd-amendment

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/black-latino-gun-owners-armed-cbsn-originals/

[elevenism]

So did you guys see the videos I posted on the last page, of Ted Cruz being harassed at a restaurant?


Furthermore, there was a fine video of a Texas senator raising hell during Abbott's masturbation segmwnt?

[elevenism]

6 people shot in Chattanooga, and 7 shot with one confirmed dead in Tulsa.

Maybe we WILL get some bipartisanship going. God knows the body count should be high enough over the past week or whatever it is.
Inshalla.

Meanwhile, here's a badass clip of Greg Abbot getting booed and heckled Sunday afternoon, in Uvalde.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KF6k_GcBGDw&t=190s

Edit: @allegro (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) I wasn't talking about hunting wild boars for fun.
I don't hunt.

I was referring to the farmers who work our family's land having the ability to get rid of the packs of Middle Earth looking beasts that come and destroy our crops down here.
Even Beto is down for ARs for THAT shit.

[allegro]

elevenism: There are literally millions of feral wild hogs. Farmers can hire professionals to shoot them.

There can be special professional licenses for them.

[elevenism]

@elevenism (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=2475): There are literally millions of feral wild hogs. Farmers can hire professionals to shoot them.

There can be special professional licenses for them.

Professional licenses for the farmers; great.
We don't need to hire anyone else.

But yeah, that's one of the ONLY instances in which I think battlefield weapons should be sold.

Those fuckers keep coming if you shoot them with a handgun or even a shotgun, and they come in packs.
I saw it when I was a kid, and yeah...it's frightening.

[elevenism]

Not every Democrat in Congress is totally pro-Choice.

A HUGE number of Democrats back then were NOT pro-choice.

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/01/26/381472527/abortion-vote-shows-how-much-democrats-world-has-changed

Yeah and Pelosi and the DNC are 100% supporting THE LAST pro life dem congressman, Henry Cuellar, IN THE WAKE of the impending end of Roe and Casey.

And I'm supposed to support THAT shit? As a good party member or whatever?

Don't you see what I see? How are you LESS cynical than I am?

I'll keep voting blue, but more and more, politics in the US looks like a bunch of psychopaths vying for power and adulation.

That, and corporate oligarchy. Idk. I've been talking about all of this, here, for going on 10 years.

[BRoswell]

Maybe we WILL get some bipartisanship going. God knows the body count should be high enough over the past week or whatever it is.

I doubt it. People always talk a good game after these events happen, but then it fades into the news cycle and we're back to square one.

[thelastdisciple]

An oldie but a goodie in terms of commentary on U.S. gun culture


https://youtu.be/QbXTDuwSVkk

[elevenism]

In 2007, Obama said that he’d sign the Freedom of Choice Act.

Look what happened to that in Congress. That wasn’t Obama’s fault. It became less of a priority because there were other priorities that Congress immediately focused on (Lily Ledbetter, Souter retirement, etc.)



Yep. Obama said "the first thing i'll do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice act."

I was as into politics then as I am now.

I don't think ANYTHING should have taken precedence over that, except.maybe more meaningful gun law reform. I mean, fuck yeah, fair pay is important, as is SCOTUS, but so are promises to planned parenthood and, you know, what we're discussing in this thread.
AND WE HAD THE FUCKING VOTES.

I LOVE Obama, but he and the dems dropped the ball.

[allegro]

Yep. Obama said "the first thing i'll do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice act."

I was as into politics then as I am now.

I don't think ANYTHING should have taken precedence over that, except.maybe more meaningful gun law reform. I mean, fuck yeah, fair pay is important, as is SCOTUS, but so are promises to planned parenthood and, you know, what we're discussing in this thread.
AND WE HAD THE FUCKING VOTES.

I LOVE Obama, but he and the dems dropped the ball.

I linked what happened to that bill Obama referenced. It died in committee. Presidents can’t control what Congress does. There was a LOT going on, considering a BLACK DUDE had just moved into the WHITE House.

Congress Dems decided that healthcare reform was the number one focus.

Rahm Emmanuel told Obama and Congress that IMMIGRATION REFORM should be the first thing Congress tackles. (Ultimately, Congress did but it failed and the situation became dire and Obama issued the DACA EO which wasn’t totally Constitutional but has at least stalled dire consequences for now.)

Some in Congress believed that CLIMATE should be the first focus.

Others believed gay marriage was issue number one.

All of those are very important.

But in 2008 to maybe 2014? There’s NO WAY Dems could have gotten enough Dems in Congress to vote to codify Roe. No, they didn’t have the votes. The section of the original ACA that paid for abortion? Many Democrats voted AGAINST that. Because they were anti-abortion.

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/01/26/381472527/abortion-vote-shows-how-much-democrats-world-has-changed


When Obama took office, there were scores of Democrats in Congress who were anti-abortion and who regularly voted with the Republicans on abortion-related matters — especially abortion funding.

The most visible example in recent years came on Nov. 7, 2009, during floor consideration of the bill that would become the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010 (better known as Obamacare).

The Democrats' anti-abortion faction then was led by Michigan Rep. Bart Stupak. After weeks of negotiating with House leaders and the White House, Stupak still insisted on a separate roll call vote regarding the impact the bill would have on abortion. He wanted it to be explicit that nothing in the new law would pay for abortions or pay for health insurance plans that covered abortions.

It was a sticky issue, and if not resolved it threatened to deny the House leaders and the Obama administration the health care law that was within their grasp.

When Stupak's amendment came to the floor, every one of the 176 Republicans in the chamber voted for it. But that would not have been enough to adopt the amendment. The amendment only prevailed because 64 Democrats voted for it, almost exactly one-quarter of what was then Speaker Nancy Pelosi's majority.

Of those 64 Democrats casting anti-abortion votes that day, only 12 remain in the House today.

Per Wiki:


On March 21, 2010, Stupak made a deal with Obama whereby he and his bloc of Democrats would vote for the final bill [Affordable Care Act] if Obama signed an executive order barring federal funding of abortion under the bill. The deal resulted in the final bill being passed in the House by a vote of 219–212. The deal was condemned by both advocates and opponents of abortion rights.

Democrat Bart Stupak: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_Stupak

One of many “Stop Stupak” rallies in 2009:

https://youtu.be/sPqRKfmC7Dc


Many Democrats in Congress back then didn’t even believe in gay marriage. Dems had moved pretty far right for decades. There is STILL a fairly large Dem voting bloc that’s conservative.

Here’s how much control the Republicans have in Congress, because nobody has voted in enough liberal or progressive Dems to override the 2A supporting Republicans:

https://www.bu.edu/articles/2022/the-long-failed-history-of-gun-control-legislation/


Domestic gun violence prevention bills

In 2014, Senate Republicans defeated a bill that would have funded states’ efforts to keep guns out of the hands of domestic abusers and a law that would have banned those under temporary restraining orders from buying or possessing guns.

Home-printed gun scrutiny

That same year, 2014, the Republican-controlled House stopped a proposal that would have required serial numbers on homemade guns, such as those made with 3D printers; the bill never even got out of committee.

Keeping guns away from terrorists

In 2015, the Republican-led Senate defeated a bill that would have banned people on a federal terrorism watch list from buying firearms. Opponents of the “no fly, no buy” bill noted the many errors and inconsistencies on the watch list.

Gun trafficking as a federal crime

In 2015 and 2021, Democrats proposed making gun trafficking a federal crime and increased penalties for those who buy guns for felons and others prohibited from owning them, known as “straw buyers.” None of the proposals passed.

Expanding background checks

In 2015 and 2016, after mass shootings in San Bernardino, Calif., and at the Pulse Nightclub in Orlando, Fla, Democrats proposed applying background checks to gun shows and private sales, where many gun transactions happen without scrutiny. All failed, as did weaker measures proposed by Republicans. A similar bill on gun shows also failed in 2017, and several subsequent proposals have gone nowhere against NRA opposition.

Record reporting improvements

After a shooter killed 26 at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, in 2017, with guns he was able to buy in spite of a domestic violence conviction, even the NRA backed a set of minor improvements to the reporting of criminal and mental health records to the background check system. The changes passed Congress as part of a larger spending bill signed into law by President Trump.

”Smart gun” requirements

A bill introduced by Democrats in 2017, after the mass shooting at a country music festival in Las Vegas, would have required gun manufacturers to equip their product with available technologies ensuring that only the proper owner could fire the gun. This would keep children and other family members from firing them as well as render them useless if stolen. It failed.

[Swykk]

elevenism There will never be bipartisanship again. That’s dead. It died when the right stopped following the rules, backed a con man (before that stopped a recount that as a result gave W the presidency) tried to overturn a fair election, acted like racist homophobic hypocrites, gerrymandered and packed the courts, etc.

Their goal is to end democracy and have minority rule. They’re attacking education because they know if you’re educated and not filthy rich, you probably won’t vote Republican.

[cdm]

There will never be bipartisanship again. That’s dead.

It's so maddening to see the Dem party not acknowledge this and operate accordingly. And fuck decorum. Pass legislation that helps the majority of people and run on that record? Nah, fuck it, let's try to fluff these assholes in the name of bipartisanship.

[allegate]

Boy arrested after staff find gun at Skyview, says Clark County Sheriff’s Office (https://www.columbian.com/news/2022/may/31/boy-arrested-after-being-found-with-gun-at-skyview-says-clark-county-sheriffs-office/)(Boy that is an unfortunate name: Jessica Prokop)

Student with handgun arrested at Skyview High School
It's the second time in a week that a Clark County student has brought a firearm to a school campus. (https://www.kgw.com/article/news/regional/southwest-washington/skyview-student-arrested-handgun-school/283-ec3bdeb9-e6a4-4b9a-bdfa-47f9ba1038c7)

Deputies arrest male student for reportedly bringing gun to Skyview High School (https://www.koin.com/news/crime/deputies-arrest-male-student-for-reportedly-bringing-gun-to-skyview-high-school/)

Teen arrested for bringing gun to Skyview High School in Vancouver (https://katu.com/news/local/teen-arrested-for-bringing-gun-to-skyview-high-school-in-vancouver)

After last week I don't believe any of the initial stories about this, especially since that last article says both of these:


Investigators say school employees spotted the firearm in his jacket.

In a statement, Vancouver Public Schools says it is thankful to the person who reported the incident so it could act quickly. And while there is no ongoing threat, there will be additional security at school Wednesday.

Oh, right, why do I care? This is the school my son goes to.

I don't understand why there aren't more suits against the parents. Go for the manufacturer? I mean sure this is America you can sue anyone. But the parents should be the first place to go. Absolutely destroy them so that eventually parents realize they need to keep a better hold on the guns and a better understanding of their children. "He had his reasons (https://news.yahoo.com/texas-shooting-gunman-mother-says-082812853.html)"? even given possible translation errors that's not a great look, hews really close to knowing something you're not sharing.

speaking of not sharing! look at that, segued like a pro.

Uvalde police forces no longer cooperating with school shooting probe, source tells ABC News (https://abc13.com/uvalde-isd-police-chief-pete-arrendondo-current-investigations-texas-dps-investigation/11913020/)
The police departments serving both Uvalde, Texas, and the town's school district are no longer cooperating with a state-level investigation into law enforcement's response to the Robb Elementary School massacre, a source told ABC News Tuesday.

Uvalde Police Department and Uvalde ISD police's decision to stop cooperating was made shortly after the Texas Department of Public Service Director Col. Steven McCraw called the delayed police entry into the classroom where 19 children and two teachers were shot to death as "the wrong decision."

delivered very quietly:
The Texas Department of Public Safety is also correcting previous comments it made stating that a teacher had left a door propped open that the gunman used to enter the school prior to the shooting.Oh so it's not the teacher's fault, weird.