Gun Talk - News, Laws, etc.

[allegro]

This MUST CHANGE.

3 men charged with trafficking dozens of guns bought over Armslist.com to Chicago gang members (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-guns-gangs-chicago-violence-20180515-story.html)


Among the startling aspects of the probe by the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives was that many of the trafficked weapons were recovered by law enforcement within weeks or months of their resale — a metric known as “time to crime” that’s often used to identify guns that are being illegally trafficked.

One gun sold outside Louisville in December 2016 was used just four months later in an armed carjacking in west suburban Westchester, according to the complaint. Another, purchased in May 2017, was found within three months on a man arrested for pointing the gun at someone during a verbal altercation on the street. Other weapons tied to the trafficking scheme quickly turned up during narcotics investigations, court-authorized searches or hidden under car seats during traffic stops, according to the charges.

Armslist has come under increased scrutiny by gun control advocates in recent years because the online marketplace does not require a would-be purchaser to register or identify himself or herself in any way. In a 2017 gun trace report, the city of Chicago noted that the number of guns available on Armslist had jumped to 148,000 from 12,000 — a 12-fold increase — since 2011.

The Chicago Tribune has reported that the Glock pistol used to kill Chicago police Cmdr. Paul Bauer had been sold through Armslist to a Milwaukee man in 2017 before winding up in the hands of a convicted felon who allegedly shot Bauer during a confrontation outside the Thompson Center in February.

Armslist has also been at the center of at least two federal lawsuits in recent years in Illinois and Wisconsin alleging that its failure to screen potential buyers has led to acts of violence.

In 2011, Demetry Smirnov, a Russian immigrant living in Canada, purchased a handgun though Armslist from a Seattle man even though federal law prohibits a private seller from transferring a firearm to residents of another state or country, the lawsuit alleged. Smirnov then went to a strip mall in west suburban Oak Brook and used the gun to fatally shoot Jitka Vesel, a woman he'd been accused of stalking.

A year later in Milwaukee, Radcliffe Haughton bought a gun on Armslist even though he'd been named in a restraining order filed by his wife and therefore barred by state and federal law from possessing a firearm, another lawsuit alleged. Days later, he entered the spa and salon where his wife worked and opened fire, killing her and two others and wounding four. He then turned the gun on himself.

The Illinois case was thrown out by a federal judge who ruled that Armslist merely facilitated the posting of ads for gun sales and was not responsible for vetting potential buyers.

The Wisconsin suit was also dismissed on similar grounds, records show.

Armslist could not be reached for comment, but lawyers for the site have noted in the past that users must click that they agree not to use its website for any illegal purpose.

According to the charges unveiled Tuesday, Wright is a member of the “Coco and Cornell gang,” a faction of the Conservative Vice Lords named after two 16-year-old associates who were fatally shot in 2012.

Henderson and Phillips used various names and email addresses to contact sellers via Armslist, including one email address that was registered in the name “Kobe Bryant,” according to the complaint. Several of the sellers interviewed by ATF agents identified Henderson as the person who purchased the weapons and described his white “muscle car,” and cellphone records placed both Henderson and Phillips at the scenes of many of the transactions, according to the charges.

Wright, meanwhile, acted as a broker, using Facebook and other means to advertise the weapons purchased by Henderson and Phillips to his fellow gang members, according to the complaint.

The charges included a number of Facebook photographs Wright allegedly posted of weapons for sale — including handguns with extended clips and laser sights, military-style rifles and machine pistols.

In one transaction from August 2017, Wright sent a photo of nine handguns, an AR rifle and a bag filled with ammunition to a known gang member along with a price of $2,000, the charges alleged.

After the gang member balked at the cost, Wright renegotiated a deal for six of the handguns — a conversation that was all captured on Facebook, the charges alleged.

[theimage13]

Speaking of Chicago....

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/180511170636-chicago-gun-share-program-exlarge-169.jpg


(Before anyone freaks the hell out - yes, it's a sculpture promoting gun control. We haven't gotten quite this stupid...yet.)

[allegate]

I don't see a problem with that. If it takes a good guy with a gun, let's make sure all the good guys have them! Just remember to return it when you're done, or there's a late fee.

[thevoid99]

This just in.... another school shooting in Noblesville, Indiana: https://apnews.com/3054e67879c740fdb3d5c2945268ac59?utm_medium=AP&utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter

And this is what really happening in America:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DeDgTrvV4AA5r7A.jpg:large

[thelastdisciple]

Given recent and never ending events, here's a topical little ditty that sounds all too familiar.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rltmCsfsF_8

[Louie_Cypher]

my nephews go to school near there, everyone their dad is a gun owner and trump supporter called to check if everything was OK, said "i don't want to hear anything about politics! and hung up, sorry your brother is a liberal Californian nut-job sorry if i give -Louie

[theimage13]

Great. Mentally unstable person (who somehow had a license) shot up a restaurant in Oklahoma, and was stopped by - you guessed it - "good guys with guns". Naturally, Fox and the NRA are both jerking off about how "good guys with guns" are the solution, while completely ignoring the fact that a guy who was posting youtube videos about demons and being attacked by his refrigerator was legally allowed to buy a gun.

We don't need MORE people with guns. We need fewer. Far, far, far, far fewer.

[thevoid99]

There's innocent people being killed by those who shouldn't be holding guns yet our dictator is more concerned about football players needing to stand up for the national anthem as well as pardon a dead boxer as a distraction for his failure with North Korea. America! We're the stupidest country on planet Earth. Hooray! Let's clap our hands for being morons!

[ltrandazzo]

I sincerely hope that these two events are unrelated. We'll likely find out more in a few hours.

1012443044942147584

1012416346418831365

[Deepvoid]

When your President calls the press the "enemy of the people", no one should be surprised to see journalists getting shot.

[Sutekh]

It's pretty ingenious how he created a character that looks like him, acts like him and believes what he believes.

[Deepvoid]

Official: Suspect in newspaper shooting mutilated his fingers in apparent effort to prevent him from being easily ID'd. https://t.co/traQdcoT7Y

Jesus christ...

[Jinsai]

well, now Sean Hannity is blaming this on Maxine Waters...

shooter identified. Sounds like a paranoid schizophrenic who had a long-lasting grudge against the paper for printing a story about him some years back (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/06/28/accused-capital-shooter-had-sued-paper-held-grudge/744287002/)

[thevoid99]

well, now Sean Hannity is blaming this on Maxine Waters...

shooter identified. Sounds like a paranoid schizophrenic who had a long-lasting grudge against the paper for printing a story about him some years back (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2018/06/28/accused-capital-shooter-had-sued-paper-held-grudge/744287002/)

Sean Hannity is a stupid asshole. I'm now convinced we're starting to live in a Fascist state.

[theimage13]

Ted Nugent: GUNS R GREAT! HOORAY FOR GUNS!! SHOOT BARACK OBAMA! (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/ted-nugent-threatens-to-kill-barack-obama-and-hillary-clinton-during-vicious-onstage-rant-94687/)

Also Ted Nugent (https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2018/07/19/ted-nugent-points-to-pulse-massacre-as-reason-to-not-allow-firearms-at-is-virginia-show): No, you can't fucking bring guns to my concert, r u insane?!. Look at other mass shootings. That shit is bad. No guns allowed at MY show.

What a fucking wanker.

[Louie_Cypher]

3d printed guns here's my deal, look i don't really care here is an issue when it blows up in someones hand or kills someone that has nothing to do with the intent of the gun printed guns intent it's not a issue of second amendment, but public safety same way as kit cars or airplanes are highly regulated if you want to fly around in a plane you slapped to together in your garage have at but when said plane falls out of the sky and kills people who had no say there is issue as the prophet Paul Simon said,"these are the days of miracle and wonder"
-louie

[onthewall2983]

I've been hearing things about how 3D-printed guns are essentially useless, except for perhaps suicide. Anyone here with more knowledge on this?

[Louie_Cypher]

I’ve been extremely close to this whole thing for the last 5 years. I’ve invested time and resources into helping the foundation of the “digital firearm”. I’ll tell you whatever you want.

The first thing to know is that almost 100% of the last week or two of news coverage is saturated with factually incorrect info, including everything politicians are saying. This is about any digital file that can tell a machine how to produce a firearm. 3D printers, milking machines, CNC machines, etc. There was only one 3D file on DefDist’s site, but politicians want it ALL censored.

Specifications on firearms have always been available to the public. Hell the AR-15 specs were put into the public domain by our own military. This is just like how the Anarchist Cookbook was primarily built from public info, like Army manuals. The info isn’t illegal, the act of producing things with the info is.

We already know that code qualifies as speech. It’s been through court. We know that machine instructions are nothing more than a digital representation of the specifications that are public. It’s more speech. This is why the federal govt decided to settle they 5yr legal situation. They couldn’t win it, and it would have turned into a SCOTUS ruling that wasn’t in their favor.

But now state govts are acting like China and trying to block a single website. It’s ridiculous. Especially when you realize that those files are all over the internet. With any luck, these idiots will produce the SCOTUS rulings that, once again, says code is speech.


And to touch on your original question: yes the one 3D file that DefDist has, the Liberator, is a single shot novelty. All the panic over it is uninformed and intentional marketing. Even the “omg can’t be detected by metal detectors” bullshit is dumb because A: the design includes a huge chunk of metal for legal compliance, and B: ammunition shows up very clearly on metal detectors. agree with everything you stated, again hype and fear hyping, i want go as far as using a term like' fake news". but news is much more basically an infomercial, remember fear and sex or not getting sex are the two biggest marketing tools known to man. i may have stated before but when i grew up my next door neighbor wa ex airborne. so i went to i ton of gun shows i'd usually drive him home because he'd get to fucked up holding court with his war buddies. look i was too young to buy gun but ok to drve him home which i wasn't point is i bought books like anarchists cookbook and how to kill vol 1-5, you def buy parts to make serviceable weapon we had zip guns, but you'd be shy some brain cells to use one.
-Louie

[october_midnight]

Mass shooting at Jacksonville Landing in Florida. (https://www.news4jax.com/news/shooting-at-jacksonville-landing-leaves)

Fuck, this livestream (https://twitter.com/exxoticxH1/status/1033775596097155072/video/1) shows that it started during a Madden 19 video game tournament...

[SM Rollinger]

First time clicking on this thread because I thought it was an enthusiast thread and I wanted to talk about the 1927 FN Browning Auto-5 I just scored for $200, but it looks like ill have to go elsewhere...

[playwithfire]

Why did you still post about it?

[theimage13]

I'm in England right now. Lot of people today telling me they "don't understand America".

Neither do I, friends. Neither do I.

[M1ke]

Maybe it's time we start classifying nerd rage as a subcategory of terrorism.

[ltrandazzo]

First time clicking on this thread because I thought it was an enthusiast thread and I wanted to talk about the 1927 FN Browning Auto-5 I just scored for $200, but it looks like ill have to go elsewhere...

Sometimes you can just not say anything. Try that sometime.

[playwithfire]

Maybe it's time we start classifying nerd rage as a subcategory of terrorism.

It's toxic masculinity, and yeah, absolutely a thing if not the dominant factor in why people do this shit most of the time.

[Volband]

Is "toxic masculinity" a professional term people use in homicide cases?

Because I don't see it helping anyone. These are almost all people who struggle with various forms of mental health problems, and I feel that shrugging it all off with an expression that implies that they are just the wrong type of men is not exactly a helpful thing to do. In this era of trying to be more kind and acceptable towards one-another, this rather condescending and derogatory term sure gets thrown around a lot.

It's also hard to take it seriously, when it became such a buzzword attributed to the most minuscule things and mass shootings alike. At least when back in the day the derogatory term was "fucking weirdos/lunatics" it implied mental issues.

[ltrandazzo]

Is "toxic masculinity" a professional term people use in homicide cases?

Because I don't see it helping anyone. These are almost all people who struggle with various forms of mental health problems, and I feel that shrugging it all off with an expression that implies that they are just the wrong type of men is not exactly a helpful thing to do. In this era of trying to be more kind and acceptable towards one-another, this rather condescending and derogatory term sure gets thrown around a lot.

It's also hard to take it seriously, when it became such a buzzword attributed to the most minuscule things and mass shootings alike. At least when back in the day the derogatory term was "fucking weirdos/lunatics" it implied mental issues.

Your post is obtuse. Toxic Masculinity refers to men needing to show off their superiority (mentally, physically, etc.) by putting down and suppressing others (usually cis and non-cis gendered women and people of color) to show off.

It helps to call it out when seen. Confining incidents like these to JUST people with mental issues is degrading and offensive to those who deal with mental issues and only further stigmatizes them... which is not helping anyone.

[Volband]

Your post is obtuse. Toxic Masculinity refers to men needing to show off their superiority (mentally, physically, etc.) by putting down and suppressing others (usually cis and non-cis gendered women and people of color) to show off.

It helps to call it out when seen. Confining incidents like these to JUST people with mental issues is degrading and offensive to those who deal with mental issues and only further stigmatizes them... which is not helping anyone.
What is our source on that he had no mental issues? Mind you, not having a hefty medical record =/= sane person, could be just unchecked.

It's a very weak narrative where he goes gun-frenzy just because he lost in a competition. Especially when sources mentioned how he was already very strange during the tournament, uncharacteristically keeping to himself.

It's strange how that school shooter got "breastfed" by certain people, and it was borderline implied that it's understandable why that massacre happened, but in this case it's just "lul, nerd rage xd".

In a somewhat related topic, I've just watched this interview with a Homicide expert (https://youtu.be/wwqkPkCzMrQ) (which barely touches the surface about this stuff), and he mentioned how we can look at many of the mass shootings as suicide. So these people are not killing others and then gunning themselves as well in panic; they want to commit suicide in the first place, they just want to do it - to use his exact words - with a bang.

I don't know what the prize pool for that tournament was, but maybe it was his last all-in to try to get back on track and losing meant he is screwed financially. I don't know, but in any way, it's rather presumptuous to just assume he was a healthy person who couldn't handle defeat.

It's probably a demagogue statement, but I'd bet even the families of the victims would rather have a proper investigation which may or may not result in better tools to battle future incidents like these, than labeling it as another case of an angry white man.

Also also, in sexual offence related topics people tend to go apeshit when someone makes a generalized assumption like this. Ie. "there's probably more to the story she didn't tell" and then all hell breaks lose, because that statement is offensive.

[ltrandazzo]

What is our source on that he had no mental issues? Mind you, not having a hefty medical record =/= sane person, could be just unchecked.

It's a very weak narrative where he goes gun-frenzy just because he lost in a competition. Especially when sources mentioned how he was already very strange during the tournament, uncharacteristically keeping to himself.

It's strange how that school shooter got "breastfed" by certain people, and it was borderline implied that it's understandable why that massacre happened, but in this case it's just "lul, nerd rage xd".

In a somewhat related topic, I've just watched this interview with a Homicide expert (https://youtu.be/wwqkPkCzMrQ) (which barely touches the surface about this stuff), and he mentioned how we can look at many of the mass shootings as suicide. So these people are not killing others and then gunning themselves as well in panic; they want to commit suicide in the first place, they just want to do it - to use his exact words - with a bang.

I don't know what the prize pool for that tournament was, but maybe it was his last all-in to try to get back on track and losing meant he is screwed financially. I don't know, but in any way, it's rather presumptuous to just assume he was a healthy person who couldn't handle defeat.

It's probably a demagogue statement, but I'd bet even the families of the victims would rather have a proper investigation which may or may not result in better tools to battle future incidents like these, than labeling it as another case of an angry white man.

Also also, in sexual offence related topics people tend to go apeshit when someone makes a generalized assumption like this. Ie. "there's probably more to the story she didn't tell" and then all hell breaks lose, because that statement is offensive.

I never said the shooter didn't have mental issues - It has been reported that the shooter was in treatment since he was 12. (https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/28/us/jacksonville-madden-shooter-katz-mental-health-invs/index.html) However, simply hand-waiving and dismissing these shooters as JUST having mental issues that contributed to this is degrading and offensive to those that deal with mental issues and that it further stigmatizes them. It also doesn't address the issue of toxic masculinity and doesn't address the larger problem here - that we have too many fucking guns and that they're too easy to get ahold of.

[Volband]

According to that expert fella guns """"just"""" increases fatality rates, but not the number of acts themselves. So yeah, I definitely agree that it's a huge problem, but the casualty rate and the occurence of these events are different beasts entirely.

[playwithfire]

It's interesting to me that people are comfortable citing "mental issues" yet the way men are socialized differently is long acknowledged within actual psychology. See: the fact that the vast majority of narcissists are men, etc. Genders are socialized differently. Toxic masculinity is absolutely one of the main if not *the* main contributing factor to these crimes as a whole and and is far more credible than strawmanning "but mental illness" in there. We have to start socializing young men, particularly young white men, differently.

[Volband]

It's off-topic, but I'll bite. How do you imagine socializing young men differently?

The way I see it, you can only influence parents and teachers; I'd like to add media to the list, but you can't change that - if romanticizing mass shooters,encouraging "alpha male" and "stupid-sexy girl"-like behavior is what's profitable, they will continue to do so. Once the kids are "out there", they are on their own. You can't artificially influence which young men will become popular and well-liked in their class, and which ones will get bullied. You can't artificially change the fact that young men will be spending their free time doing sports like soccer with their boy friends, and girls will be absent, and you can't artificially change the dynamic of courtship between young people. I find it a rather low blow to throw toxic masculinity around, when its the result of all those thousands of years of human civilization. Genders are held to different standards and face different problems and hardships as they mature; it's not "fair", but I'd rather spend time and resources on giving better opportunities to these people to understand this (and that they are, or at least could be normal), than to make an attempt to artificially interfere in one's gender identity. The latter can also result in some serious imbalance (ie. you can daydream about how men should be, but the average women might not be attracted to that), resulting in even more emotional stress and confusion.

Right now, if you are kid who is being treated like shit at home and being bullied at school, your best bet is hoping that there will be sufficient medication to your inevitable mental problems once you reach a mature age. That's bollocks, and until it's not solved, telling young men that "oohh honey, you are just another victim of your gender, better luck next time :( " is just oil to the fire. Is it in the UK where you can just walk into the police station, confess you are a pedophile and get proper treatment instead of being handcuffed and imprisoned? I know there's a country where it goes like this, and it helps.

It would be a great start if people with mental issues (yes, these are real and treatable conditions, even if you are rolling your eyes) would know for sure, that there are "official" (I meant to say people with authority, don't know the proper word) people whom they can confess ANYTHING, without throwing their life away. You go in, you tell them you are seriously considering murdering your mates because you feel that the walls are closing in, and no one is on your side, and you would get help. Sure, it sounds like wishful thinking, and maybe it's an impossible scenario, but there has to be ways to improve the methods we tackle these issues with.

Can't add much to the gun laws argument, as I'm not from the US, so I could just repeat the same "your country is very strange to me..." mantra that helps no-one. But I say this: as much as I (and everyone with a brain) agree with making stricter laws as to how and when you can acquire assault rifles, it's still not the heart of the problem. To me, circlejerking about gun and them being evil is just as bad as the media making rockstar from shooters. Yeah, it's bollocks that they had those kind of weapons, but for Christ sake, if only you would be half as enthusiastic to tackle the problems which causes people wanting to murder others, that would be great.

I bet there are parents out there who neglect their children to the point of (indirectly) causing them permanent damages, but go to every anti-gun rally and think they are being the voice of change.

[playwithfire]

It's off-topic, but I'll bite. How do you imagine socializing young men differently?

It's only off topic if you don't view it as a primary contributor to the issue of gun violence and mass killings. I'm going to link you to things that are detailed and extensive. I'm not going to summarize something here, because that is a lot of work for no reason when the articles are great and there has been a lot of thought around this topic by very qualified people. Read them if you want.

https://qz.com/1095247/the-sociological-explanation-for-why-men-in-america-turn-to-gun-violence/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jan/17/boys-cry-male-suicide-dean-windass

https://www.wired.com/story/the-struggle-to-predictand-preventtoxic-masculinity/


than to make an attempt to artificially interfere in one's gender identity. The latter can also result in some serious imbalance (ie. you can daydream about how men should be, but the average women might not be attracted to that), resulting in even more emotional stress and confusion.

I don't think any reasonable person is advocating for or suggesting this?


Right now, if you are kid who is being treated like shit at home and being bullied at school, your best bet is hoping that there will be sufficient medication to your inevitable mental problems once you reach a mature age. That's bollocks, and until it's not solved, telling young men that "oohh honey, you are just another victim of your gender, better luck next time :( " is just oil to the fire.

Do you like... what... who is saying that... Look, I want to assume you mean well, but that's an absurd comparison to draw.


It would be a great start if people with mental issues (yes, these are real and treatable conditions, even if you are rolling your eyes) would know for sure

What mental issues do you think pre-dispose someone to commit a mass killing? I absolutely agree that we should have better mental health care that doesn't condemn people seeking help and makes that accessible, but I am not sure how much you actually know about this topic.


Can't add much to the gun laws argument, as I'm not from the US, so I could just repeat the same "your country is very strange to me..." mantra that helps no-one. But I say this: as much as I (and everyone with a brain) agree with making stricter laws as to how and when you can acquire assault rifles, it's still not the heart of the problem. To me, circlejerking about gun and them being evil is just as bad as the media making rockstar from shooters. Yeah, it's bollocks that they had those kind of weapons, but for Christ sake, if only you would be half as enthusiastic to tackle the problems which causes people wanting to murder others, that would be great.

Totally. And one of the primary risk factors for committing a mass killing is being a white man. We have to change how we are socializing young men and boys. How so? See above.

[Volband]

Damn ,the new South Park episode was pretty dope. I wonder if their episode will reach aself-fulfilling prophecy, making people outraged about the episode itself.

[ickyvicky]

This is great news:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/03/14/sandy-hook-shooting-gunmaker-remington-can-sued-court-rules/3162168002/

https://www.wsj.com/articles/manufacturer-of-ar-15-can-be-sued-over-sandy-hook-massacre-court-rules-11552579520

[BRoswell]

Mass shooting at two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand. Multiple shooters reported, four suspects currently in custody. At least one of them live-streamed the whole thing on Facebook. Different reports on how many dead at the moment. Apparently one of the shooters left a manifesto on 4chan which is being circulated. Truly a fucked up situation.

[Haysey_Draws]

Fucking hell!

[Exocet]

its one of the most intense surreal horrific video i have ever seen, I literally watched a video of 50 people get murdered im not morbid or anything, but it was on twitter widely about 4 hours ago I think its blocked now, I literally started shaking when I was watching it

[elevenism]

its one of the most intense surreal horrific video i have ever seen, I literally watched a video of 50 people get murdered im not morbid or anything, but it was on twitter widely about 4 hours ago I think its blocked now, I literally started shaking when I was watching itfucksake. I just woke up a couple of hours ago. The news report brought tears to my eyes.
JESUS.
What in the FUCK.

[ltrandazzo]

its one of the most intense surreal horrific video i have ever seen, I literally watched a video of 50 people get murdered im not morbid or anything, but it was on twitter widely about 4 hours ago I think its blocked now, I literally started shaking when I was watching it

Not directed just at you, but I'll take this moment to say that if anyone shares videos of the shooting, you will be banned forever. I don't care if you've been here for 15 years or 15 minutes.

Thanks.

[Haysey_Draws]

Reports are starting to trickle in, apparently the guy that live streamed was an active member of 8Chan (this fucking site again!) where he not only outlined his plan but was met with celebration from it's other users...AND NOBODY THOUGHT TO MAYBE HAVE SOMEONE KEEPING TABS ON THIS SITE? I mean they've been found to be hosting CP and all manner of fucking awful shit since it was created in 2013, how isn't it being watched already?!!

[Haysey_Draws]

Not directed just at you, but I'll take this moment to say that if anyone shares videos of the shooting, you will be banned forever. I don't care if you've been here for 15 years or 15 minutes.

Thanks.

I wish i could do this in my office, one of the guys (and to be honest he is an alright bloke, a bit high maintenance but a good guy) and he has the video downloaded on his phone so he can show everyone, i've already had to turn him away several times, I DON'T WANT TO WATCH IT, STOP PUSHING YOUR PHONE INTO MY FACE FFS.
I get some people will want to see it, if not to just re affirm their anger for it, but i don't want to feed into this guy's plan...he WANTS us to watch what he did, ALL OF US!

...fuck i just want to go home already and hide all weekend, the worlds just a horrible horrible place right now!

[ltrandazzo]

I wish i could do this in my office, one of the guys (and to be honest he is an alright bloke, a bit high maintenance but a good guy) and he has the video downloaded on his phone so he can show everyone, i've already had to turn him away several times, I DON'T WANT TO WATCH IT, STOP PUSHING YOUR PHONE INTO MY FACE FFS.
I get some people will want to see it, if not to just re affirm their anger for it, but i don't want to feed into this guy's plan...he WANTS us to watch what he did, ALL OF US!

...fuck i just want to go home already and hide all weekend, the worlds just a horrible horrible place right now!

That's something you should escalate to your lead/manager right away. Alright guy or not, not appropriate in the workplace.

[ricardo]

Fuck terrorism. We live in a very fucked up world.

[allegro]

Anyone who actively WANTS (not by accident) to see this shit is just viewing this evil shit like PORN. It’s murder. MURDER. It’s not entertainment. Anyone who wants to watch it is a sociopath. Anyone who is trying to FORCE others to watch this is guilty of a hate crime, IMHO.

That guy at work is not “alright.”

[Volband]

Anyone who actively WANTS (not by accident) to see this shit is just viewing this evil shit like PORN. It’s murder. MURDER. It’s not entertainment. Anyone who wants to watch it is a sociopath. Anyone who is trying to FORCE others to watch this is guilty of a hate crime, IMHO.

That guy at work is not “alright.”
Or, you know, morbid curiosity. It's as close as you can get to understand death and evil without actually falling prey to it.

Showing it around for others, even just at a casual gathering is not okay however. It is an awful lot to handle, and some people would even get sick from watching cctv footage of a hit and run.

Edit: and to be clear, asking around for links in normal boards like here is in bad taste and should be punished. No arguing there.

[allegro]

Or, you know, morbid curiosity. It's as close as you can get to understand death and evil without actually falling prey to it.

Showing it around for others, even just at a casual gathering is not okay however. It is an awful lot to handle, and some people would even get sick from watching cctv footage of a hit and run.

I understand morbid curiosity. I’ve been known to view morgue photos and reports. I worked at a funeral home. But this is the murderer’s own video of the murder of 49 people. Wtf. And viewing it repeatedly? That’s crossed over into sociopath. He needs help.

[Jinsai]

Anyone who actively WANTS (not by accident) to see this shit is just viewing this evil shit like PORN. It’s murder. MURDER. It’s not entertainment. Anyone who wants to watch it is a sociopath. Anyone who is trying to FORCE others to watch this is guilty of a hate crime, IMHO.

That guy at work is not “alright.”

I will admit that I've watched a lot of horrible things out of morbid curiosity. Some of the things I've seen have made me really regret it. I'm not a sociopath.

And no, I don't want to see any videos of this. I feel like I've "learned my lesson" there already in the past.

[allegro]

I will admit that I've watched a lot of horrible things out of morbid curiosity. Some of the things I've seen have made me really regret it. I'm not a sociopath.

And no, I don't want to see any videos of this. I feel like I've "learned my lesson" there already in the past.
I knew in advance that watching something like a beheading would never get out of my head, so I refused to watch; I can’t get over seeing an INJURED PUPPY. For me, there’s a thin line between “morbid curiosity” and “masochism.” So I err on the side of self-protection.

My husband won’t even watch “Dr. Pimple Popper.” LOL. I’ve watched surgeries in person, doesn’t bother me.

I can tell a bunch of interesting facts about crematoriums, btw. Worked at one. /drift

[M1ke]

I will admit that I've watched a lot of horrible things out of morbid curiosity. Some of the things I've seen have made me really regret it. I'm not a sociopath.

And no, I don't want to see any videos of this. I feel like I've "learned my lesson" there already in the past.

I hear you. Same boat.

I've had to talk to my kids and warn them to be careful not to watch any videos that may be sent their way today.

My daughter is 14. This seems like the kind of thing some stupid 14yo edgelord would sent to everyone they can just because they're too stupid to recognize the reality.

This is horrifying.

[allegro]

Anyway, those poor people :( Shot at peaceful places of worship. This is so awful.

[Pillfred]

I stopped watching these types of videos years ago, was never really into to begin with, after I spent far too much time digging one up. Having said that a buddy added me to a meme page a while back (ive left since) and earlier this topic came up. I did watch the whole thing. Found it profoundly disturbing to put it mildly. What was worse is how these people were literally yucking it up, like who had the best flippant comment. I'm going back to my previous position of not viewing this sort of thing. It poisons the brain. I don't think the numbing effect is the only issue with this sort of thing. I'm no psychologist but it has to have more adverse consequences than indifference. The whole situation is so very sad.

[ickyvicky]

Another school shooting :-(

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/next-thing-i-know-he-pulling-gun-colorado-student-school-n1003226

[theimage13]

Another school shooting :-(

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/next-thing-i-know-he-pulling-gun-colorado-student-school-n1003226

The mere fact that this made me think you meant there was another shooting today, and not just posting about yesterday's, says something really dark about this country.

[ickyvicky]

My two nephews were in the Sandy Hook school shooting, both thankfully survived, but it still haunts us every day. Every time we hear about another one happening, our hearts sink.
My husband is also a teacher at a Middle School, and every day I pray this doesn't happen again.

[sweeterthan]

My two nephews were in the Sandy Hook school shooting, both thankfully survived, but it still haunts us every day. Every time we hear about another one happening, our hearts sink.
My husband is also a teacher at a Middle School, and every day I pray this doesn't happen again.

You posting this is to close to home for me. My son was two months old when it happened. We have more protection for the unborn than for our living children.

[allegro]

If I had children now, I’d home school. This shit is psychologically damaging, even if there aren’t any shootings at your school. The kids are having nightmares. The prep is necessary, but it’s traumatizing.

That boy in Colorado acted quickly and SAVED all his classmates, and he died. He’s a hero, but at such a terrible cost. And the shooters are teenagers.

[theimage13]

Speaking of children, 9 year old murders his mother with a rifle (https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/michigan/9-year-old-michigan-boy-accused-of-murdering-his-adoptive-mother-with-rifle)

There are an awful lot of questions currently in the air on this one, not the least of which is WHY THE FUCK DID HE HAVE ACCESS TO A RIFLE?!

[allegro]

Adoptive mother. Holy cow, that’s all so sad.

[ickyvicky]

Why are we accepting this???


https://youtu.be/0IM4p62p3M0

[allegro]

The sad thing is, I don’t think background checks are enough. They’re too easy to bypass. The Sandy Hook shooter stole his mom’s legally-obtained guns, killed her, then killed the children at Sandy Hook. People lie on firearm applications about mental illness.

We need the Federal government to install metal detectors in all schools, to protect against guns AND bombs. There has been an increase in bomb threats in schools, as well. We need specially-trained security at schools, not armed teachers and not Sheriff’s Deputies drinking coffee in an office. We need the system to put a perimeter of safety around the schools so that the children and teachers inside are safe from ALL things - kidnapping, guns, bombs - and can learn and study without being constantly terrorized from fear of being killed.

This doesn’t turn school into “prison.” It turns school into a safe, protected zone.

[allegro]

NRA shuts down NRATV and fires Dana Loesch.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/25/us/nra-nratv-ackerman-mcqueen.html

[BRoswell]

Another mass shooting in El Paso. Twenty dead at last count. Another white supremacist motherfucker. Now hearing reports of a shooting in Dayton, Ohio as well.

[theimage13]

Another mass shooting in El Paso. Twenty dead at last count. Another white supremacist motherfucker. Now hearing reports of a shooting in Dayton, Ohio as well.

Trump might be right. Mexico might actually pay for that wall to keep shitty white supremacist assholes like this out of their country. I wouldn't blame them.

[Jinsai]

Another mass shooting in El Paso. Twenty dead at last count. Another white supremacist motherfucker. Now hearing reports of a shooting in Dayton, Ohio as well.

And in the shooter's suspected manifesto, it apparently goes out of its way at the end to say that his views "predate Trump." Uh, ok...

EDIT: And now news is coming out that there's been a mass shooting in Ohio just now.

[Demogorgon]

And in the shooter's suspected manifesto, it apparently goes out of its way at the end to say that his views "predate Trump." Uh, ok...

EDIT: And now news is coming out that there's been a mass shooting in Ohio just now.

I'm in Canton and there was a TON of shots fired a few streets down, just within the last hour or so. Shit is getting widespread.

[versusreality]

nearly 30 dead in two mass shootings on the same day...this is beyond out of control...awful

[thelastdisciple]

Obviously try not to live your day to day in fear of losing your life but by all means be safe out there and keep your eyes peeled folks!

My god the U.S. is so dysfunctional.

[allegro]

So full of hate.

That El Paso manifesto was disgusting.

This shit needs to be deemed Domestic Terrorism, and sites like 8chan need to be heavily monitored and shut down. That’s not free speech, that’s hate speech that’s producing and training Domestic Terrorists.

[ltrandazzo]

It’s white terrorism, not domestic terrorism.

[allegro]

It’s white terrorism, not domestic terrorism.

If we have real programs that treat bombings and shooting people in Synagogues and Mosques and gay bars and churches and Wal-Marts and country music festivals and garlic festivals and schools etc. etc. as Domestic Terrorism, then we can more properly monitor these things (online, etc.) and stop calling it all “mental illness.”

White nationalism is bad, yes. The FIRST thing they want to be called is white nationalist.

The LAST thing they want to be labeled is Domestic Terrorist. But, that’s what they ARE.

Mick Mulvaney was on Meet the Press this morning, scoffing at the idea that the El Paso shooter was a domestic terrorist; nah, the shooter is just a mentally ill dude with a gun.

For the right, the only domestic terrorists are Muslims.

Here’s a good article about our lack of adequate Federal laws. (https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/zoetillman/domestic-terrorism-hate-crimes-el-paso-shooting)


The Justice Department is treating Saturday’s mass shooting in El Paso, Texas that killed at least 20 people as a “domestic terrorism case” and exploring a hate crime connection, but the lack of a clear federal domestic terrorism law means these types of mass attacks aren’t usually prosecuted as such.

US Attorney John Bash told reporters Sunday that the Justice Department was treating the shooting as domestic terrorism, but also said that federal law enforcement officials were working on the investigation with an eye towards federal hate crimes and firearms charges — not terrorism, explicitly.

“We’re going to do what we do to terrorists in this country, which is deliver swift and certain justice,” Bash said.

There are numerous federal and state crimes that prosecutors can turn to in cases of mass shootings. Defendants can be charged with murder, assault, or unlawfully possessing firearms, and the Justice Department can invoke federal hate crimes laws where there’s clear evidence of a racist or otherwise prejudiced motive. But even though these attacks are often referred to as domestic terrorism, federal prosecutions under US terrorism laws have been limited to cases involving foreign actors or organizations.

The suspected shooter in El Paso has been identified by multiple outlets as 21-year-old Patrick Crusius. Local officials have said they’re investigating a potential “hate crime” connection, including a document posted online they believe but have not confirmed was written by the shooter that featured anti-immigrant and white supremacist rhetoric.

El Paso District Attorney Jaime Esparza told reporters on Sunday that his office expected to bring capital murder charges and would pursue the death penalty.

Federal law includes a definition for “domestic terrorism,” and federal terrorism laws don’t explicitly rule out prosecutions for domestic acts, but historically those laws have been used for cases with a foreign connection, from terrorism planned by overseas groups to US citizens trying to join groups such as ISIS. A section in the US code defining a particular term isn’t the same as a law criminalizing specific acts.

Some national security experts and legal scholars say that’s a big problem, and not just one of semantics. For instance, defendants with white supremacist ties who are charged with stockpiling weapons and plotting — but not actually carrying out — mass attacks may only face lesser firearms offenses, said Mary McCord, a former senior national security official at the Justice Department.

There’s also what McCord calls a “moral equivalency” problem — that the American public and law enforcement agencies don’t treat domestic mass attacks, including in cases where there’s a racist, anti-Semitic, or other motive considerd a hate crime, the same as attacks carried out by foreign actors, in terms of perception, attention, and resources.

“Americans tend to equate terrorism with Islamic extremism, and, in today's polarized environment, with Muslims. But don't they tend to associate white supremacist violence with terrorism and they should,” said McCord, a legal scholar at Georgetown Univerity Law Center. “You can't prevent what you don't understand.”

There isn’t pending legislation to create a federal domestic terrorism law. In March, Democratic Sen. Dick Durbin introduced the Domestic Terrorism Prevention Act, which would direct the Justice Department, FBI, and Department of Homeland Security to prepare an annual report on the domestic terrorism threat, including white supremacist and neo-Nazi activities, and what agencies were doing to fight it. It would also create an interagency task force to explore white supremacist activities within the US armed forces.

Durbin’s bill has 19 co-sponsors, none of whom are Republicans, which means for now it faces little chance of movement in the Republican-led Senate.

Under federal criminal law, “domestic terrorism” is defined as “acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any States” and are intended to intimidate civilians, influence government policy through intimidation, or affect how the government functions through mass destruction or other violence.

[Demogorgon]

Word is coming in that one of the Dayton victims was the shooter's own sister.

[Sarah K]

Yeah, they even arrived to the area together.

[allegro]

Word is coming in that one of the Dayton victims was the shooter's own sister.

And her boyfriend. Both shot to death in a car.

[allegro]

Dayton shooter’s Twitter account was suspended, but was archived.

People who’ve seen the whole thing say one tweet said he kind of liked Elizabeth Warren and followed some Antifa-associated groups.

He was also suspended in high school for having a “hit list” and a “rape list” containing names of fellow classmates, but those records were sealed because he was a minor (would not prevent him from buying a weapon).

His last post on Twitter told Biden’s generation to “hurry up and die” (in response to Biden allegedly telling Millennials to stop complaining). But then the shooter went and killed a bunch of young people, most of them black.

Right wing Twitter assholes now blaming Antifa conspiracy. Listen, idiots, all extremists need to be put on the Domestic Terrorist watch list. There are no offsetting penalties.

[allegro]

Gun control talk:

I support the Second Amendment.

But THESE weapons, with high capacity magazines where someone can shoot 30+ people in less than one minute?

Ordered online?

That’s not something that should be in the hands of an everyday citizen. Even the Chief of the Dayton Police is saying this.

If not outright “banned,” they should be HEAVILY regulated as if they were military equipment.

The Second Amendment doesn’t give us the right to bear ALL arms.

The U.S. Supreme Court has already CLEARLY decided this, and SCALIA wrote the opinion.

[Demogorgon]

This is interesting. Not likely to really stop forums like this completely, but it's an interesting start: Cloudflare drops 8chan.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/05/cloudflare-ceo-defends-decision-to-drop-8chan-after-el-paso-shooting.html


(https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/05/cloudflare-ceo-defends-decision-to-drop-8chan-after-el-paso-shooting.html)

[allegro]

This is interesting. Not likely to really stop forums like this completely, but it's an interesting start: Cloudflare drops 8chan.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/05/cloudflare-ceo-defends-decision-to-drop-8chan-after-el-paso-shooting.html


(https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/05/cloudflare-ceo-defends-decision-to-drop-8chan-after-el-paso-shooting.html)

They were down, then up again, then down again

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/08/8chan-briefly-got-back-online-with-same-cdn-used-by-neo-nazi-daily-stormer/

[allegro]

HORRIBLE weekend in Chicago’s West Side re shootings

7 killed, 48 wounded.

It peaked Sunday morning when 17 people were shot. (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-chicago-weekend-gun-violence-shootings-20190805-rjdbnceupnat7me4z3yjsvfe5y-story.html)

Someone captured audio of the Douglas Park shootout (https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/breaking/ct-lawndale-douglas-park-7-shot-20190804-h7zp42rhefgmxky4qvox3yurzi-story.html), released by the CPD.

Obviously, these guns are modified to full-auto.

https://twitter.com/AJGuglielmi/status/1158354367944245248?s=20

[thelastdisciple]

^

Hearing that you'd think it was the 1920s/30s.

[Jinsai]

So... about that DeGrasse Tyson tweet? That sort of cold disregard feels like a socially awkward thing to say... even his apology feels strange. Wtf..

[theimage13]

So... about that DeGrasse Tyson tweet? That sort of cold disregard feels like a socially awkward thing to say... even his apology feels strange. Wtf..

I mean...I think it was maybe a little dumb (as in, I'm not sure what the purpose of the tweet was), but it was 100% factual. I don't understand the outrage over it; everything he wrote was right. I mean, just look at Chicago. 17 people shot there Sunday morning and the first time I'm hearing about it is in this thread. We 100% respond to spectacle over raw numbers. I don't think that point lessens or reduces the tragedies that occurred this weekend. But I agree that it left me thinking "okay, and........?"

[ickyvicky]

I think it was definitely an unnecessary tweet from him. He may be right, but to write "Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data" is incorrect. All those other causes of death also causes emotion - however, these mass shootings are a different kind of emotion because this was done with violence/hate/purpose. It's a different category, in my opinion.

[Haysey_Draws]

8chan being dropped by their security firm will only help advertise them to more of these absolute twats when a new firm takes over (and they will) and it'll be even stronger...that place is just the fucking worst! And now people are predictably blaming the violence on Video games and mental health...again -_-

[Jinsai]

I think it was definitely an unnecessary tweet from him. He may be right, but to write "Often our emotions respond more to spectacle than to data" is incorrect. All those other causes of death also causes emotion - however, these mass shootings are a different kind of emotion because this was done with violence/hate/purpose. It's a different category, in my opinion.

also, we actively try to actually address the issues there, but we’re at an impasse with America’s unique problem with gun-powered murder sprees

[Amaro]

His last post on Twitter told Biden’s generation to “hurry up and die” (in response to Biden allegedly telling Millennials to stop complaining). But then the shooter went and killed a bunch of young people, most of them black.
I live in Dayton.

Yes, 6 of the 9 deaths were black people, the other 3 being white people. There were also both black people and white people who were injured by gunfire.

https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2019/08/dayton-shooting-scene.png?w=800&quality=85


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwfHGdtoDNo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM1Viy6kmNw

^ More full-length than the first surveillance video but with less focus on the moment the shooter is shot.

And one with sound:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SqoFxh7SCg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=538K4KJzQio

Dayton police officers literally saved probably upwards of 20 lives, just barely grounding the shooter in time before he got to enter the bar Ned Peppers, where so many patrons sought shelter in a panic, with even more innocent souls who were already inside.

In times especially like these, I look to every single sensationalist I've come across (online and otherwise) who has ever generalized police officers as being evil or racist with even more disgust. Grow up. Stop fueling fires of hatred. That form of prejudice is no different than that of a bona fide racist.

Just the other day (somewhere in the country), a McDonald's employee refused service to EMTs because the employee thought they were cops. Once the EMTs clarified they weren't cops, the McDonald's employee continued to refuse servicing them, just because they had badges.

(...)

I've felt fairly numb to this happening literally so close to home. I've gone to the bar and the district since the shooting several times now, the last couple of times just minutes ago (to see the latest activity in the district with Trump visiting us today). The area is, of course, simply not the same as it was before this all happening, so I can't seem to connect myself emotionally. I know myself pretty well...I'll surely be playing emotional catch-up in the bar district, at the right time. I'd played dozens of shows there... I also have mostly dark or delicate memories already associated with the district. (This city is not my happy place.)

But what had hit me instantly, straight through, almost bringing me to tears, was seeing the surveillance video I linked above. That very last-second moment where the cops intervened...seeing how this could have been so much worse. In seeing that moment, I become more than awake, and I realize my stomach has already sunk. I feel the same every time I watch it.

Below are a couple of articles that shed light on the case and add perspective on the shooter, Connor Betts.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7324839/Connor-Betts-shot-best-friend-mass-shooting-driving-Dayton.html

https://medium.com/@_adeliajohnson_/my-ex-boyfriend-was-the-dayton-shooter-2b7f2d792b68
(https://medium.com/@_adeliajohnson_/my-ex-boyfriend-was-the-dayton-shooter-2b7f2d792b68)
I bookmarked these two days ago to share with people, so there may be more new findings as of today. I'm trying to take a break from reading everything, but that's hard to do...

For example, I just saw new surveillance camera footage from another bar in the district showing Connor, his sister, and their friend (a highlighted subject in the first article I linked above), just some hours before the shooting took place.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/06/us/surveillance-video-connor-betts-in-bar/index.html

Anyone who's been following along with the case has learned that Connor's mental health had been in real trouble for years, nevermind his political views (not to evade the fact they were extremely left-wing or extremist left-wing views--I don't claim to be left-wing or right-wing). I read somewhere he didn't want to seek help for the mental issues he knew he had because of the stigma around mental illness...I'm not sure he ever got clinically diagnosed with anything. It seemed clear he wasn't getting any help lately though. This all is always so terrible and tragic to learn.

Reasonable gun reform needs to happen, but I mostly blame social media, smartphones (a gargantuan factor), and the 24/7 news cycle for the rise of mass shootings. To go further in (in one particular direction), there's been an over-saturation of fear-mongering and hate-mongering, of all likes, from both sides of the political aisle. The significance and consequences of that cannot be overstated.

I could go on and on about how I feel on these things, but in short, in my honest and firsthand opinion: everyone's mental health has been progressively under siege for the last 10+ years, for any one of these reasons, or all of them combined.

Even if gun reform happens, I'm sad to say this is still probably just the beginning with mass shootings (or mass murdering).

[allegro]

Amaro, I marveled at the footage of the Dayton cops standing DIRECTLY IN THE LINE OF FIRE and shooting at the guy who was holding a weapon that was pretty much a fucking MACHINE GUN.

Those cops are heroes. Totally.

100-round magazine, LOOK AT THIS FUCKING THING!

https://d3gxe0jmvtuxbc.cloudfront.net/images/Product/large/3903.jpg

[Demogorgon]

The owner of 8chan is getting hauled before Congress: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/8chan-owner-jim-watkins-facing-summons-to-testify-before-congress-child-porn-probe-in-philippines/ar-AAFtu5S

[ickyvicky]

"Rifle-Carrying Man Arrested After Causing Panic at Walmart in Missouri"

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/09/749763786/rifle-carrying-man-arrested-after-causing-panic-at-walmart-in-missouri

[thelastdisciple]

They are actually refusing to sell games at Wal-Mart.

https://ca.ign.com/articles/2019/08/09/walmart-halts-most-game-sales-following-shootings

Not the guns, ANYTHING but the guns.

Obtuse fucking jackasses.

UPDATE: Sounds like it was a miscommunication but i wouldn't be surprised if they quickly reversed course over backlash.

[Demogorgon]

They are actually refusing to sell games at Wal-Mart.

https://ca.ign.com/articles/2019/08/09/walmart-halts-most-game-sales-following-shootings

Not the guns, ANYTHING but the guns.

Obtuse fucking jackasses.

Wal-mart has always been backwards and catering to the lowest common denominator. No one should have been buying games there anyway. I'll keep my integrity rather than saving a few bucks extra.

[ickyvicky]

And the dad was ok with him having all that shit in the house??

https://www.thedailybeast.com/fbi-justin-olsen-arrested-for-threatening-massacre-had-10000-rounds-of-ammo

[ickyvicky]

Good.

https://www.wesh.com/article/video-shows-mothers-shock-seabreeze-shooting-threat/28759187

[ickyvicky]

"Disgruntled Employee had Arsenal of Guns, Threatened Mass Shooting at California Hotel"

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/disgruntled-employee-had-arsenal-guns-threatened-mass-shooting-california-hotel-n1045076

[cahernandez]

Another one:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/31/us/odessa-shootings.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/31/us/odessa-shootings.html)

[theimage13]

https://www.newsweek.com/mcconnell-supreme-court-gun-control-new-york-1457088

Mitch McConnell - you may remember him as the guy who held the Supreme Court hostage and then packed it once he got his way - is now accusing Democrats of trying to pack the courts so that they can push through awful legislation that they hope will result in fewer people being murdered.

You can't make this fucking shit up.

[Demogorgon]

The owner of 8chan is getting hauled before Congress: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/8chan-owner-jim-watkins-facing-summons-to-testify-before-congress-child-porn-probe-in-philippines/ar-AAFtu5S

Bad form to quote myself, i know, but it's for continuity. 8chan owner states he is not and has no intention of ever removing or banning hate speech: https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/5/20850791/8chan-hate-speech-delete-jim-watkins-infinitechan-el-paso-shooting-racist-white-supremacist

[Jinsai]

Bad form to quote myself, i know, but it's for continuity. 8chan owner states he is not and has no intention of ever removing or banning hate speech: https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/5/20850791/8chan-hate-speech-delete-jim-watkins-infinitechan-el-paso-shooting-racist-white-supremacist

Cool, then we know where to look for it.

[theimage13]

Cool, then we know where to look for it.

You mean aside from the White House and Trump's twitter feed?

[allegate]

‘Absolutely horrific’: School-shooting-themed sweatshirts slammed by gun violence victims

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/09/18/bstroy-school-shooting-sweatshirts-columbine-sandy-hook/)

At a fashion show in New York this weekend, a tall model walked down a narrow runway flanked by streetwear devotees. He wore white-and-gold sneakers, khaki pants and a dark gray sweatshirt with the hood up. Across his chest, the word “Columbine” jumped out in embroidered white letters surrounded by ripped holes.

He wasn’t alone. Three other models soon strutted the checkered floor, each wearing a hoodie tattered with bulletlike holes and embroidered with the names of the deadliest school shootings in U.S. history.

The co-founder of the fashion label later explained he wanted to “make a comment on gun violence … while also empowering the survivors of tragedy.” But instead, the show left victims and their families demanding the company shelve the line and apologize.that's insane, right?

[theimage13]

Totally on board with people making their own shirts for protests and whatnot, but this just reeks of "hey, free publicity!" and getting media time based off murdered children. Doesn't sit well with me.

[sweeterthan]

It’s bad taste for sure but also super insensitive to those families. Haven’t they endured enough?

[BRoswell]

Massacres into fashion statements. I should be shocked, but this is America after all...

[Archive_Reports]

https://twitter.com/davidhogg111/status/1174302556291338241

[theimage13]

https://twitter.com/davidhogg111/status/1174302556291338241

And the comments section officially shredded any last sliver of faith in humanity that I'd been clinging to.

[neorev]

https://youtu.be/b5ykNZl9mTQ

[thelastdisciple]

Here is Beto's further comments on confiscation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_Y5hLolhvI

[ickyvicky]

Another one :( Suspect still at large
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/14/us/california-school-shooting/index.html

[theimage13]

Well if this doesn't sum up the state of things in one article...

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/amberjamieson/senator-blumenthal-california-school-shooting

[Demogorgon]

I'm surprised no on has mentioned this yet. Mass shooting at Molson Coors Brewing Co. campus: https://apnews.com/8b6f867e5f52baf2b699f564d177e899

[cdm]

Mass shooting at Molson Coors Brewing Co. campus

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/noose-found-on-gunmans-locker-at-milwaukee-coors-facility-years-before-deadly-shooting/2020/03/04/9ac61d6a-5b75-11ea-ab68-101ecfec2532_story.html

This makes a horrifically awful situation 10x worse.

[ickyvicky]

That's messed up

[allegro]

Milwaukee is absolutely a segregated racist town, ain't no denying that shit.

WISCONSIN is like that. There's some good people in Wisconsin, but ...

Very sad.

[botley]

Mass shooting in Nova Scotia, the second-smallest province in Canada. The shooter killed at least 23 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/mass-killings-what-we-know-what-we-don-t-1.5537918) people, driving in a fake Royal Canadian Mounted Police cop car dressed as an officer and going from town to town killing folks until he was captured and killed. Horrendous.

EDIT: He was temporarily banned (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/04/21/death-toll-could-rise-in-nova-scotia-as-investigation-into-mass-killing-continues.html) from owning or carrying a weapon from a previous offence.

[october_midnight]

Mass shooting in Nova Scotia, the second-smallest province in Canada. The shooter killed at least 23 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/mass-killings-what-we-know-what-we-don-t-1.5537918) people, driving in a fake Royal Canadian Mounted Police cop car dressed as an officer and going from town to town killing folks until he was captured and killed. Horrendous.

EDIT: He was temporarily banned (https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/04/21/death-toll-could-rise-in-nova-scotia-as-investigation-into-mass-killing-continues.html) from owning or carrying a weapon from a previous offence.

And because of this, our country said enough's enough. Effective immediately, assault style weapons are now officially banned. Fuck. Yes.

https://twitter.com/CBCNews/status/1256247412341067778

[theimage13]

And because of this, our country said enough's enough. Effective immediately, assault style weapons are now officially banned. Fuck. Yes.

https://twitter.com/CBCNews/status/1256247412341067778

Everyone in America wearing a red baseball hat: "but he was already temporarily banned from owning weapons so obviously there's literally no reason whatsoever to ban guns because it won't stop one single bad thing from happening ever"

I have such a crush on Canada. I can't believe I only live like 50 miles away and I can't just move there.

[bobbie solo]

man I want to move to Canada so bad sometimes. This is one of those times.

[chuckrh]

man I want to move to Canada so bad sometimes. This is one of those times.

My mom was born there. I've thought about checking into the possibility of moving up there since Trump came into power.

[M1ke]

More good news incoming for Canada:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/trudeau-says-legislation-on-municipal-handgun-bans-coming-1.4922898

I had a "friend" on facebook who I removed yesterday who was saying that Canadians should launch a civil war over the assault gun ban, and who doubled-down when I tried to calm him down a bit. Anyways, CSIS asked for his information when I made a report to them, but facebook says it's within their community standards.....so?????

I dunno, fewer guns sounds good to me. Hopefully this municipal handgun ban becomes a real thing and realistically becomes enforceable. I'd love to live in a country that just plain didn't have guns. That'd be pretty good I think.

[allegro]

Does Trudeau mean assault handguns (big magazine semi auto) or all handguns (6-shooter pistols)? Or just all of them? Did something happen with a handgun, too? Just curious.

[botley]

Does Trudeau mean assault handguns (big magazine semi auto) or all handguns (6-shooter pistols)? Or just all of them? Did something happen with a handgun, too? Just curious.
These are the firearms (https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/firearms/need-know-the-government-canadas-new-prohibition-certain-firearms-and-devices)affected under the new prohibition.

[allegro]

These are the firearms (https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/firearms/need-know-the-government-canadas-new-prohibition-certain-firearms-and-devices)affected under the new prohibition.
Interesting, thanks. So no Glock, etc. Not yet, anyway. And there’s an Amnesty Order until 2022.

[botley]

Yes, the handgun ban @eskimo (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=218) mentioned is still in the planning stages and would look something like what Chicago has tried in the past before being struck down by your Supreme Court. Handguns are already considered 'restricted' firearms (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Canada#Restricted_firearms) in Canada, and have been for fifty years, which means it's illegal to carry them out of your home or a licensed gun range without specific authorization. Precedent for this restriction against smaller guns goes back a long way (https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/history-firearms-canada) in our nation's history. I think the only place in the USA with that kind of law is San Francisco? Maybe?

[Jinsai]

I'm sure my brother, who is a gun nut, is having a complete meltdown about this. I'd love/hate to be a fly on the wall listening to him scream about Trudeau right now.

Literally every political point he gets passionate about involves gun legislation. It's really the only thing he cares about. So, on one hand I'd love to hear him whine about how Canada is turning into some fascist police state that is about to be suppressed and nobody will be free, and on the other hand I'm tired of that shit and he can cry at someone else. Nobody needs a military style weapon in their house.

I'm not sure how I feel about the handgun ban, but whatever, I hate guns.

[theimage13]

Is this the right thread for discussing the lynching of Ahmaud Arbery?

I still can't find the words for this story. It's days like this I'm glad I stepped away from the offer to be a reporter, because there's no way in hell I could ever write an unbiased, matter-of-fact story about this young man and the shit stains who lynched him. I'm still staunchly anti-capital punishment, but if anyone deserves it, it's these fucking inhuman cowards.

[allegate]

there's a certain person who hasn't posted in quite awhile who I'd imagine is quite upset at this news.

I hope he's doing OK, the world is so crazy you worry about everyone anymore.

Also woke up to this bullshit:

https://twitter.com/kfor/status/1258258056611315715

[allegro]

Yes, the handgun ban @eskimo (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=218) mentioned is still in the planning stages and would look something like what Chicago has tried in the past before being struck down by your Supreme Court. Handguns are already considered 'restricted' firearms (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_Canada#Restricted_firearms) in Canada, and have been for fifty years, which means it's illegal to carry them out of your home or a licensed gun range without specific authorization. Precedent for this restriction against smaller guns goes back a long way (https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/history-firearms-canada) in our nation's history. I think the only place in the USA with that kind of law is San Francisco? Maybe?
All handgun bans were declared unconstitutional per the McDonald v City of Chicago SCOTUS decision (2010); this also includes the ability to obtain a concealed carry license. Chicago’s handgun ban prevented the sale and possession of unregistered handguns within the city limits, and then also made it impossible to register said handguns. This did nothing to the crime stats, and people owned illegal handguns that they purchased in cities outside of Chicago. So someone sued the City of Chicago and that worked its way up the appellate system, and that now affects the entire country via precedent. The Heller SCOTUS decision also set precedent as to handguns being an individual’s right for home defense.

Each state, however, still has laws as to TRANSPORT of handguns, e.g. whether or not concealed carry applies to inside vehicles, and reciprocity across state lines. Most states do NOT have reciprocity with CCL. So if you have a CCL (concealed carry license) and a FOID (firearm owners ID) in Illinois and go on a road trip to Florida, you will be illegally carrying that handgun through several states.

In Illinois, if you DO NOT have a CCL and you transport your handgun to a range, the handgun must be broken down if a semiautomatic or unloaded if a revolver and kept in a closed container totally beyond the reach of the driver (preferably the trunk of the car).

So, in that sense, handguns are “restricted” in most states here, too. States with concealed carry require a license which requires several hours of safety classes and a test.

allegate, I believe DigitalChaos is okay, they had a second kid and they got a house he was working on and they were really swamped busy with life stuff.

[allegro]

Is this the right thread for discussing the lynching of Ahmaud Arbery?

I still can't find the words for this story. It's days like this I'm glad I stepped away from the offer to be a reporter, because there's no way in hell I could ever write an unbiased, matter-of-fact story about this young man and the shit stains who lynched him. I'm still staunchly anti-capital punishment, but if anyone deserves it, it's these fucking inhuman cowards.

I am so fucking pissed off at this story. I believe it is more appropriate in that police / Ferguson thread? Because it ends up that one of the killers was retired from the police force and knows the prosecutors? And they’re using citizen’s arrest and old Jim Crow loitering laws as a defense.

This sums up what’s going on:

https://theweek.com/articles/912977/ahmaud-arbery-racist-history-loitering-laws

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/opinion/ahmaud-arbery-killing.html


According to The New York Times, “Gregory McMichael is a former Glynn County police officer and a former investigator with the local district attorney’s office who retired last May.” The local prosecutor recused herself from the case because Gregory McMichael had worked in her office. The next prosecutor, a district attorney, also recused himself because his son worked for the district attorney for whom Gregory McMichael had worked.


THIS RACIST VIGILANTE SHIT IS THE BIGGEST REASON WHY WE MUST GET RID OF TRUMP! Because he is empowering this evil.

[allegate]

Armed black citizens escort Michigan lawmaker to capitol after volatile rightwing protest (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/07/michigan-lawmaker-armed-escort-rightwing-protest)

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1301533058382790656?s=20

always in self-service of an upcoming book.

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/NewYorkStateAG/status/1350199191440674816

as they say:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dc3ymv3XUAEbK_l.jpg

https://twitter.com/SebastianMurdoc/status/1350204607146950656

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1372265496599535622

[ickyvicky]

So sick :(

[ickyvicky]

10 dead at a grocery store in Boulder, CO

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/23/us/boulder-colorado-shooting-tuesday/index.html

[sweeterthan]

why are the ammosexuals suddenly back again? and why was this mother fucker in the bathroom at the grocery store i occasionally shop at?

https://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-man-took-5-guns-body-armor-into-atlantic-station-publix-cops-say/44Y6FBBM4FDVDJQABYQTBOADBU/


Officers at the scene spotted the man leaving the bathroom and quickly took him into custody. According to police, his weapons included two long guns and three pistols, all of which were concealed on his person. Police identified the man as 22-year-old Rico Marley and said he has been charged with reckless conduct.

[ickyvicky]

Sick :(

[Erneuert]

ammosexuals

lmao

[ickyvicky]

Boulder Shooter being held without bail, and delaying next court date to two months in order to assess his mental health.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/03/25/boulder-shooting-suspect-in-court/6994259002/

[allegate]

saw this this morning and I wish it wasn't true.

https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/611943312401002496

[allegate]

why are the ammosexuals suddenly back again? and why was this mother fucker in the bathroom at the grocery store i occasionally shop at?

https://www.ajc.com/news/breaking-man-took-5-guns-body-armor-into-atlantic-station-publix-cops-say/44Y6FBBM4FDVDJQABYQTBOADBU/https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1375072588515381251

that's incredible.

[sweeterthan]

https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1375072588515381251

that's incredible.

agreed! the person who spoke up saved lives imo but the local dialogue is different. his firearms were purchased legally and he had a carry license. people think he was arrested because he was carrying while black. he walked in publix with body armor and multiple guns. to me the body armor suggests he planned to do something but some think it’s just gun culture to wear the vest and walk around with guns. he’s still in custody as far as i know. it will be interesting to hear if he confessed to planning something or if he’s like naw, i was about to head to the gun range. there is a gun range about a quarter mile from the shopping center. i’m sure they have bathrooms there.

my dentist and doctor are in this shopping center so i will occasionally shop at that publix for convenience. a target i frequent is behind that publix and there are multiple stores around the publix that i go to. i was right down the street grabbing lunch at the time he was seen in the bathroom. i really don’t like this story. it makes me feel unsafe. i wish it were different. i truly despise the second amendment and the fact that the right to carry a gun supersedes our right to live without fear of being shot at the fucking grocery store.



saw this this morning and I wish it wasn't true.

https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/611943312401002496

yes. i remember sandy hook happened when my son was 6 weeks old. i was holding him and watching the news in horror. i will never accept the trade off of guns over people.

[ickyvicky]

13 year old kid killed by officer after what police called "armed confrontation"

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/13-year-old-boy-killed-by-officer-after-what-police-called-an-armed-confrontation/2476827/

[ickyvicky]

Toddler shot in the head during road rage incident in Chicago

https://abcnews.go.com/US/year-shot-head-apparent-road-rage-incident-chicago/story?id=76910228

[ickyvicky]

What the fuck is going on....

Pro Footballer Phillip Adams shoots family of 5 and then himself

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31214902/report-former-nfl-player-phillip-adams-kills-5-himself

[Erneuert]

What the fuck is going on....

Pro Footballer Phillip Adams shoots family of 5 and then himself

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31214902/report-former-nfl-player-phillip-adams-kills-5-himself

It’s just like people randomly get possessed by a fucking demon and these things happen. Just real pure evil shit going on everywhere.

[allegate]

What the fuck is going on....

Pro Footballer Phillip Adams shoots family of 5 and then himself

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31214902/report-former-nfl-player-phillip-adams-kills-5-himself
sounds like a CTE thing which is a shame for everyone involved.

[ickyvicky]

Regarding to the Phillip Adams story, there's news that the doctor that he killed removed his medication.

[ickyvicky]

1 dead, 5 shot in Texas Industrial Park

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/several-people-injured-texas-shooting-suspect-still-large-n1263557

[Jazzkokehead]

Strange how countries with more stringent gun laws have fewer incidences of gun violence. But god forbid we rethink a document written over 240 years ago.

[ickyvicky]

Another school shooting.

https://www.wvlt.tv/2021/04/12/heavy-police-presence-at-austin-east-high-school/

[ickyvicky]

Another school shooting.

https://www.wvlt.tv/2021/04/12/heavy-police-presence-at-austin-east-high-school/

High school student dead after trying to shoot officer in bathroom

https://www.cbsnews.com/live-updates/school-shooting-tennessee-knoxville-student-killed/

[allegate]

My son's best friend just moved to TN. Jesus.

[Archive_Reports]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56770200

Like two minutes from my job, so that's cool. This country's obsession with owning death devices is beyond fucked.

[allegro]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56770200

Like two minutes from my job, so that's cool. This country's obsession with owning death devices is beyond fucked.

This seems to be some kind of work-related incident, like a “going postal” thing. Ugh.

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/jbouie/status/1383016129002627074

So gross.

[allegro]

There’s something wrong with that kid, seriously, and they are taking advantage of him and using him. He is intellectually challenged in some way, and these vultures came in and his mom is a real piece of work trash can, too.

The police and public officials are largely AT FAULT, here, calling for help, not discouraging it in ANY way, making this kid think he was a Junior Policeman, and using him and the others like instant deputies. It’s CYA.

[ickyvicky]

With the FedEx shooting, they were saying:

"Family members gathered at a nearby hotel to await word on loved ones — and some employees were bused there for tearful reunions. But other relatives said they still had no information about their loved ones hours later. Most employees aren’t allowed to carry cellphones inside the FedEx building, making contact with them difficult."

Why aren't they allowed to have their phones? It's just FedEx???

[Archive_Reports]

With the FedEx shooting, they were saying:

"Family members gathered at a nearby hotel to await word on loved ones — and some employees were bused there for tearful reunions. But other relatives said they still had no information about their loved ones hours later. Most employees aren’t allowed to carry cellphones inside the FedEx building, making contact with them difficult."

Why aren't they allowed to have their phones? It's just FedEx???

May just be a productivity thing.

[ickyvicky]

Indianapolis police identified the gunman as 19 year old Brandon Hole, who was last employed by FedEx in 2020. The suspect was known to federal and local authorities, and a relative reached out to authorities warning about that person's potential for violence.

https://news.yahoo.com/reports-multiple-people-shot-indianapolis-044829185.html

[ickyvicky]

Shooting at Stop & Shop in Long Island, NY. 1 dead, 2 wounded. Gunman is on the run.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspect-large-after-deadly-shooting-new-york-grocery-store-n1264667

[ickyvicky]

Woohoo! Judge dismisses NRA bankruptcy case

https://www.wistv.com/2021/05/11/judge-dismisses-nra-bankruptcy-case-blow-gun-group/

[allegate]

what a shame.

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/HillaryClinton/status/1392497383926337536

ah, it's got to be so freeing when you don't have to try to please 100% of the people.

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/agentbizzle/status/1392939188467638273

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1399906790003728384?s=20

[ickyvicky]

^^ what the fuck. where's CPS??? and ASPCA????

[ickyvicky]

"12 year old boy and 14 year old girl break into house, find guns in house, and then shoot at police" - This lasted for almost 2 hours! what the hell...

https://www.wesh.com/article/12-year-old-volusia-shootout-deputies/36618409#

[allegate]

"I don't know what to say. Where have we gone wrong that a 12-year-old and 14-year-old think it's OK to take on law enforcement. What the hell is the department of juvenile justice doing sending them to places that can't handle them?"

I don't know guy, what could it possibly be.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOTyUfOHgas

[sweeterthan]

https://twitter.com/shannonrwatts/status/1399906790003728384?s=20

this scary and horrible. i’m glad the little boy is ok.

[elevenism]

this scary and horrible. i’m glad the little boy is ok.
That's one of those "wait, this can't be REAL" sort of things. She wanted to shoot...a fucking PUPPY?

[allegate]

California’s assault weapons ban overturned as federal judge compares AR-15 to a Swiss Army knife (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/california-e2-80-99s-assault-weapons-ban-overturned-as-federal-judge-compares-ar-15-to-a-swiss-army-knife/ar-AAKJMDq?ocid=uxbndlbing)

“Like the Swiss Army Knife, the popular AR-15 rifle is a perfect combination of home defense weapon and homeland defense equipment,” Benitez said in the ruling.

https://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdlzy0krV11rzbvsto1_400.gif


But there is some good news.

NRA withdraws federal lawsuit against New York Attorney General Letitia James (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/nra-withdraws-federal-lawsuit-against-new-york-attorney-general-letitia-james/ar-AAKIEWE?ocid=uxbndlbing)

[ickyvicky]

Grocery Store Cashier Shot Dead after a face-mask dispute with customer

https://www.businessinsider.com/store-mask-rules-mandate-cashier-shot-dead-argument-customer-2021-6

[allegate]

that's so nuts. I hope Victor gets what is coming to him.

US Military Guns Keep Vanishing, Some Used in Street Crimes (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/06/15/us-military-guns-keep-vanishing-some-used-street-crimes.html)


Military weapons are especially vulnerable to corrupt insiders responsible for securing them. They know how to exploit weak points within armories or the military's enormous supply chains. Often from the lower ranks, they may see a chance to make a buck from a military that can afford it.

and with the military's racism problem (https://apnews.com/article/us-military-racism-discrimination-4e840e0acc7ef07fd635a312d9375413) this isn't going to get better.

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/connpost/status/1412819329377255424

edit: looks like they deleted it. I hate it when they do that.

edit 2: twitter API being stupid this morning. I hate it when they do that.

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/VICENews/status/1419639517036879872

well that just screams well-adjusted.

[allegate]

Toddler shoots, kills mom during video call after finding gun, Florida police say (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/toddler-shoots-kills-mom-during-video-call-after-finding-gun-florida-police-say/ar-AANgi6R?ocid=uxbndlbing)
Someone on the work-related Zoom conference called 911 and reported that they had seen a toddler and heard a noise before the woman, Shamaya Lynn, fell backward, police said in a statement.well that's not going to give those people nightmares at all. Holy crap.

[ickyvicky]

13 injured, 2 dead - shooting in grocery store in Tennesse

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/news/crime/2021/09/23/active-shooter-collierville-kroger-reported-memphis-area/5831626001/

[ickyvicky]

School shooting in Texas - 4 injured, suspect still at large

https://www.fox4news.com/news/school-shooting-reported-at-timberview-high-school-in-arlington

[allegate]

can't wait for all the tots and pears to come pouring out about how we can't do anything about this. it's maddening.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.I mean it's a fake quote but apropos.

[Jinsai]

https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=414945613333084&set=a.411825880311724https://twitter.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1445844866450092036?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcam p%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[ickyvicky]

Nicolas Cruz pleads guilty to murder charges for Parkland, FL school shooting

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/20/us/nikolas-cruz-parkland-shooting-guilty/index.html

[Jinsai]

Don Jr is a piece of shit. I know, big surprise, and I know there’s no legitimately good reason to visit his Instagram feed, and I’m not suggesting that anyone do that. But if you were to do that, you’d find about 20 memes framing Alec Baldwin as a hypocrite (who is getting his karmic retribution) because he’s pro-gun control but killed someone with a gun.

…and don’t bother trying to post a response to any of this bullshit; comments are limited to contacts gleefully posting LOLs. Oh yeah, he’s also peddling his dad’s new “censorship-free social media” thing, because he’s all about hypocrisy

[sweeterthan]

Don Jr is a piece of shit. I know, big surprise, and I know there’s no legitimately good reason to visit his Instagram feed, and I’m not suggesting that anyone do that. But if you were to do that, you’d find about 20 memes framing Alec Baldwin as a hypocrite (who is getting his karmic retribution) because he’s pro-gun control but killed someone with a gun.

…and don’t bother trying to post a response to any of this bullshit; comments are limited to contacts gleefully posting LOLs. Oh yeah, he’s also peddling his dad’s new “censorship-free social media” thing, because he’s all about hypocrisy

this was happening on twitter too. these people are so spiteful. A person DIED. this is a tragedy. it’s truly beyond the pale to make fun of it.

anyway guns are stupid.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Haysey_Draws]

It's exploding on Twatter now, but the Judge in the trail of that Kyle guy that shot and killed 2 people in the riot's last year has said the dead cannot be called Victims.

Let me repeat that, the people that were killed cannot be called Victims as per the judge on the trail...i'm honestly beginning to think he is going to get off scot free, and the amount of deaths that's going to lead too!

[ickyvicky]

that is crazy. how is that even allowed???

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/sumpeoplelikeit/status/1453074623000682514?s=20

[cdm]

It's exploding on Twatter now, but the Judge in the trail of that Kyle guy that shot and killed 2 people in the riot's last year has said the dead cannot be called Victims.

Let me repeat that, the people that were killed cannot be called Victims as per the judge on the trail...i'm honestly beginning to think he is going to get off scot free, and the amount of deaths that's going to lead too!

This is pretty standard stuff and it’s being fixated on to elicit a reaction.

[allegro]

It's exploding on Twatter now, but the Judge in the trail of that Kyle guy that shot and killed 2 people in the riot's last year has said the dead cannot be called Victims.

Let me repeat that, the people that were killed cannot be called Victims as per the judge on the trail...i'm honestly beginning to think he is going to get off scot free, and the amount of deaths that's going to lead too!

This Judge applies that rule at all trials. He believes it influences juries to be less than impartial. It’s not a big deal.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/27/us/kyle-rittenhouse-trial-victim-terminology/index.html

[allegate]

OTOH

https://twitter.com/Will_Bunch/status/1453156024563679235

edit:

adding this here because it fits. sadly, it fits.

https://twitter.com/existentialfish/status/1453020289407795209

[allegro]

It’s Kenosha. He’s elected. He’s been elected and re-elected since 1984. That ain’t no coincidence. It means the majority of racist assholes in Kenosha County love him. He runs unopposed.

https://ballotpedia.org/Bruce_Schroeder

https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/watch-now-newly-elected-kenosha-county-judges-take-up-their-gavels/article_097dda65-6ec8-5cc0-b6ab-53f16b221b7f.html


Dougvillo, 39, a former Racine County prosecutor and court commissioner in Walworth County, was sworn in Wednesday by Schroeder, the longest-serving judge in Wisconsin.

Also, after the Blake incident with the Kenosha PD, ONE DUDE went on Facebook and said he was forming some kind of militia to help clean up the post-riot mess in Kenosha and to help “protect” Kenosha and he asked for volunteers. He was inundated with volunteers, even from Illinois, including Rittenhouse. Many of the protesters were not from the area, either. The Kenosha PD pretty much deputized the “militia” people on site that night, directing them where to cover. That’s on video, which I hope is allowed at trial. The ones who should also be on trial should be that asshole who invited the militia, and the KPD.

The Kenosha riots were all about BLM and post-George Floyd. For MANY MONTHS after the riots, stores downtown were boarded up (by volunteers), and were decorated by positive messages and artwork about love and unity. Some stores closed permanently (near where the riot occurred). The burned-out used car lot was still full of burned up cars, last I saw. His insurance company was refusing to pay, citing an insurrection clause. But none of this would have happened if the KPD wasn’t full of assholes. Kyle Rittenhouse isn’t playing with a full deck, and has been used by these right-wing nutjobs since Day One.

This is a shitty judge with a shitty record of jurisprudence; I won’t be surprised if the verdict will be overturned on appeal because of some dumb errors that the judge makes.

These fucking Turning Point assholes - as well as plenty of other Trump assholes on Twitter bragging about how they’re gonna start a civil war and they’re armed - will be in for a BIG FUCKING SURPRISE when they find out how many people they despise are armed.

And these Trump people are defending themselves “against the government” and the government has TANKS? Can these people be any dumber?

[ickyvicky]

Justice Department reaches settlement with families of 2015 Charleston church shooting massacre

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/families-charleston-church-shooting-settle-lawsuit-justice-department-n1282635

This is crazy, even though he had a previous felony drug charge: "Federal law allows a gun sale to go ahead if the FBI hasn't blocked it after three days."

[allegro]

This is crazy, even though he had a previous felony drug charge: "Federal law allows a gun sale to go ahead if the FBI hasn't blocked it after three days."

Because the FBI background check system is a disaster. It’s totally unreliable. The 3-day can go ahead because the 3-day is a state law that can’t be violated, and if within 3 days the FBI doesn’t automatically flag then it’s assumed that there is no flag. Because there SHOULD be systematic automatic updates in the FBI dbase that are reliable.

There are not.

[Jinsai]

That’s it… not going to pay attention to any more of this stuff with the Kyle Rittenhouse person. I have never seen a more slappable face in my life, and listening to the Maga / Carlson crowd call him a hero or whatever… it’s really not a great way to go about your day. I’m done, and I hope he goes to jail.

[allegro]

That’s it… not going to pay attention to any more of this stuff with the Kyle Rittenhouse person. I have never seen a more slappable face in my life, and listening to the Maga / Carlson crowd call him a hero or whatever… it’s really not a great way to go about your day. I’m done, and I hope he goes to jail.

People using the kid as a "hero" isn't necessarily the kid's fault. He held up his hands and surrendered at the scene. The cops, in a TANK, drove right past him. He deserves jail, absolutely for sure. But that kid isn't playing with a full deck.

The case is being streamed, live, here in Chicago. I don't think the kid is "acting" in any way; it's the way he looks all the time. The Prosecution is doing a good job.

[sweeterthan]

i saw some people defending him on twitter because he killed a “known pedophile”. i’m like ok, sure pedophiles are bad but 17 year olds shouldn’t be the street executioner. we have laws and a justice system. the whole thing with this kid is fucked up. the parents should be charged. they drove him there with a weapon he shouldn’t have.

[allegro]

Actually, Rittenhouse bought the weapon in Wisconsin with the assistance of his older friend in Wisconsin. That friend also kept the weapon in Wisconsin for safe keeping. Rittenhouse told the friend he wanted the AR-15 for use that night, and the friend allegedly tried to talk him out of it, but Rittenhouse prevailed. Rittenhouse picked up his weapon in Wisconsin and went to the protest. That friend alleges he talked Rittenhouse into turning himself in? The friend was on the stand yesterday.

[sweeterthan]

sounds like he’s got a better friend than parents. his parents knowingly drove him across state lines and dropped him off with a weapon. how they aren’t being investigated and charged is beyond me.

[Jinsai]

I also love all these people saying shit like “the stranger he shot to death turned out to be a horrible criminal! So he didn’t commit a crime by shooting him!”

Is that how people think it works? Like, you can walk around and kill strangers in the street, and if it turns out they’re a criminal, lucky you! You did nothing wrong?

[allegro]

his parents knowingly drove him across state lines and dropped him off with a weapon. how they aren’t being investigated and charged is beyond me.

His Mom drove him to Kenosha, he had no weapon.

The weapon was in Wisconsin, at the friend’s house.

Before this info was discovered, Illinois considered charging the Mom, plus charging the kid for underage possession of said weapon.

All that went away when it was discovered that the weapon was never in Illinois; and that it’s not illegal for a minor to have or use a gun in Wisconsin.

There were rumors that Rittenhouse’s Mom was also at the protest that night, but that was never substantiated.

[allegro]

I also love all these people saying shit like “the stranger he shot to death turned out to be a horrible criminal! So he didn’t commit a crime by shooting him!”

Is that how people think it works? Like, you can walk around and kill strangers in the street, and if it turns out they’re a criminal, lucky you! You did nothing wrong?

We all know that the way the law works is that Rittenhouse didn’t know anyone’s criminal history at the time. He wasn’t walking around holding people’s rap sheets. “The luck of the draw” isn’t Constitutional. The same Constitutional rights that Rittenhouse deserves (fair trial, etc.) are the same Constitutional rights that the dead guy deserved.

Defense attorneys have tough jobs: Defending lots of people, many of whom are guilty, all being 100% entitled to all of their Constitutional rights.

[allegro]

I suspect that New York is going to lose this concealed carry SCOTUS case.

[Jinsai]

uh... well, this could wind up being a big thing.

NPR is reporting that they have a 2.5 hour long, secretly recorded conversation amongst NRA brass discussing how to respond to the optics in the wake of the Columbine shootings. Some of these snippets are crazy but I guess predictable. "We are in deep shit on this deal."

https://www.npr.org/2021/11/09/1049054141/a-secret-tape-made-after-columbine-shows-the-nras-evolution-on-school-shootings

[Swykk]

Sooooo Kyle is going to totally be acquitted and it’s going to be legal to murder protesters soon, isn’t it?

This judge can barely contain his biases and obvious sympathies for Kyle. This is gross. I initially thought I’d not watch anything but the little shit’s testimony got me. I needed to see him be a big faker. Cry more, racist murderer because you’re going to walk soon, right?

[sweeterthan]

Sooooo Kyle is going to totally be acquitted and it’s going to be legal to murder protesters soon, isn’t it?

the zimmerman vibes are strong. so fucking gross.

[Jinsai]

Yeah this is awful.

At the same time, I have to admit legal ignorance to courtroom procedure here, but if the prosecutions question about Rittenhouse's silence was objectionable, shouldn't the defense object? Maybe I've watched too many movies.

[thelastdisciple]

Pinch and fucking zoom doesn't alter an image, holy fucking shit!

[Jinsai]

I love all this shit with him crying... whatever, I'll always remember you as the guy with the goofy smile and "free as fuck" t-shirt

[allegro]

Pinch and fucking zoom doesn't alter an image, holy fucking shit!

This trial day was fucking EPIC!! I watched it ALL DAY!!!

Okay so yes, an expert earlier explained how he used enhancement software to take crappy video and improve the color and clarity without adding any imaging; no shadows, no additional pixels, etc.

When we use the zoom feature, the pixels decrease, as does clarity, so Apple’s iOS compensates for that by using an algorithm that replaces the “lost” pixels by kind of guessing where they’d be in a zoom. But it’s not precise or reliable in a crime situation.

Hence the introduction of forensic video enhancement, using software designed specifically for this purpose.

The defense did not object to all of the enhanced and zoomed video introduced this morning. The defense only objected to the use of zoom.

The judge is not a subject matter expert and, contrary to the assertion of prosecution, neither is the jury. If the judge had said “yeah, go ahead we don’t need to question anything zoomed,” that is 100% grounds for mistrial on appeal.

Anyway, the prosecution totally filleted this kid today on the stand.

For HOURS.

[versusreality]

that piece of shit is going to get off, isn't he?

[allegro]

that piece of shit is going to get off, isn't he?

Not necessarily.

The prosecution blew a TON of holes in the self-defense case today. Sorry for the figure of speech.

But holy shit it was a massacre.

This is NOT a Zimmerman case; that was an innocent black kid walking to his Dad's house, and was stalked by some neighborhood watch racist asshole.

The three white guys shot in this case all had possible reasons for Rittenhouse to possibly use self-defense: Rosenbaum was mentally ill (released from a mental hospital only hours earlier that day) and was chasing Rittenhouse while screaming nonsense, and allegedly tried to take Rittenhouse's weapon; Huber and Grosskreutz pursued Rittenhouse, Huber hit Rittenhouse with a skateboard and Grosskreutz had a handgun. (This was ALL shown on video in the trial.)

All while possibly believing that Rittenhouse was an active shooter.

The prosecution, during his cross-examination of Rittenhouse, presented a REALLY good line of questioning as to WHY Rittenhouse HAD A WEAPON THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Was it to "protect the BUSINESS?" It CAN'T be used to protect the business in Wisconsin. So, if not, WHY? Rittenhouse said to "protect himself."

From WHAT?

Nobody, over the two days of protests in Kenosha, had been shot. Or even fired at.

The prosecution showed video of Rittenhouse and his companions walking out into the street and being met by protesters who were chanting "PROTECT YOUR PROPERTY, BUT NOT THE STREETS" or something like that. Rittenhouse and his people were pretty much WARNED not to take weapons out onto the street. But they IGNORED it. Why?

Rittenhouse's friend helps put out a dumpster fire, then one yells to a few of the nearby protesters (with a weapon strapped to his chest), "FUCK AROUND AND FIND OUT." Implying that if you set a fire, you're gonna meet with these guys' guns.

It was a really telling line of questioning that Rittenhouse walked RIGHT INTO and showed that he was LOOKING for trouble. The whole "I'm a medic" shit, walking around offering help as a medic ...

Prosecutor says to him, you shot Rosenbaum, he's lying there bleeding, did you offer help?

Rittenhouse: No.

He shoots Huber, Huber's lying there bleeding out, did Rittenhouse offer medical help?

Rittenhouse: No.

He shoots Grosskreutz, and Grosskreutz is screaming for a medic. Did Rittenhouse offer medical assistance?

Rittenhouse: No.

He observed people throwing rocks at an armored vehicle, a tank. Does Rittenhouse think that rocks will hurt a tank? No.

Did he observe any very serious injuries? None other than a possibly sprained ankle early in the day.

He observed a few dumpster fires. He was sent to put them out (by his friends at the used car place).

None of this warrants a rifle and a volunteer “medic.”

His friends, btw, are on the ROOF of the used car location on 59th and Sheridan, ARMED WITH RIFLES, looking down from the roof to "cover" Rittenhouse.

Cover for what? You can't shoot at people from the roof of a business, that CAN'T be what he meant - says prosecutor.

No no, says Rittenhouse, he means like yell down to him, "hey, Kyle, look out." (uh huh)

Except many people complained that people on the roof were using LASER SITES on people down on the ground. Like LASER SITES FROM WEAPONS.

And one of the people in Rittenhouse's militia (or whatever it was) had to warn the others to knock that shit off (this was actually presented at the trial today).

Rittenhouse said he didn't know those other people, only his two friends.

What a shit show, omg.

From the videos and photos presented, it's obvious this kid thought he was playing in a real life version of Tour of Duty. Backpack medical supply and everything.

People on Twitter trying to discount this, but it is what it is.

[allegro]

Oh, and although we in Chicago have been totally inundated with this case for ... what? Over a year?

I just found out today that Rittenhouse's DAD lives in Kenosha.

[Jinsai]

https://i.imgflip.com/5tqvsy.jpg

[allegro]

I was REALLY pleasantly surprised today when the prosecution showed video evidence of the KPD offering Rittenhouse and another guy water and thanking them for being there, “we really appreciate you.”

Assholes.

Oh and this was awesome:
https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1458558173451747335?s=21

[allegro]

Here are more prosecutorial highlights from today:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1458554752799760390?s=21

https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1458555508202217473?s=21

https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1458535204251844611?s=21

https://twitter.com/acyn/status/1458533807917731842?s=21

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1458532921845895169?s=21

[sweeterthan]

thanks for the recaps allegro
i’ve been avoiding the trial because the whole thing makes me sick but you’re right about the prosecutor. he is good. fingers crossed justice is served.

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1458521835151269893

I haven't been on twitter for two weeks and I only saw this on another message board. it's made life* better for sure.

*you know, that head-in-the-sand life where you pay attention only to the things around you. it's kind of great, I recommend it.

[Volband]

From the videos and photos presented, it's obvious this kid thought he was playing in a real life version of Tour of Duty. Backpack medical supply and everything.

People on Twitter trying to discount this, but it is what it is.
It was interesting reading the reddit thread. I liked the comment which argued that while he absolutely should not have been there, if he was being attacked (and he was) then self-defense is justified. It's actually similar to the argument that it doesn't matter that Rosenbaum (edited because accidentally wrote Rittenhaus) was a piece of shit, that alone (without the self-defense case) doesn't justify killing him. It actually makes a lot of sense from the law's perspective, so he should probably be acquitted from the murder charges, otherwise you just send the message that if you are an annoying piece of shit, then self-defense laws are not applicable to you and you should just (potentially) die if you get into trouble.

IF the self-defense can be proved (and there's plenty of video evidence), why would you want him to be found guilty on murder charges?

[Jinsai]

If I were on the jury I would ask to be removed. I can’t be impartial. I want to punch him in the face.

[allegro]

It was interesting reading the reddit thread. I liked the comment which argued that while he absolutely should not have been there, if he was being attacked (and he was) then self-defense is justified. It's actually similar to the argument that it doesn't matter that Rittenhaus was a piece of shit, that alone (without the self-defense case) doesn't justify killing him. It actually makes a lot of sense from the law's perspective, so he should probably be acquitted from the murder charges, otherwise you just send the message that if you are an annoying piece of shit, then self-defense laws are not applicable to you and you should just (potentially) die if you get into trouble.

IF the self-defense can be proved (and there's plenty of video evidence), why would you want him to be found guilty on murder charges?

Here's the other set of facts:

A few seconds before Rittenhouse shot and killed Rosenbaum, Joshua Ziminski fired shots into the air. (https://www.kenoshanews.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/man-facing-charge-for-firing-gun-in-air-before-rittenhouse-shootings-now-charged-with-arson/article_c507fee0-f1ef-5205-ac8f-b320c41e036d.html)

This caused massive confusion, as nobody seemed to know where the shots were coming from, etc.

After Rittenhouse shot and killed Rosenbaum (there's a serious question, there, as to whether use of deadly force is warranted for Rosenbaum throwing a bag of clothes at Rosenbaum etc.), Rittenhouse took off running down the street.

At this point, to everyone who was now RUNNING DOWN THE STREET BECAUSE THERE WAS AN ACTIVE SHOOTER SITUATION HAPPENING, Rittenhouse was the only guy with a GIANT GUN strapped to his body.

So, he looked like AN ACTIVE SHOOTER.

Look up "Active Shooter" in this country, see the drills that school children do regularly for Active Shooters, see the NRA members' assertions that the "good guys with guns" etc. can disarm the Active Shooters and save lives, etc.

In any OTHER active shooter situation, anybody attempting to disarm an active shooter would be deemed a HERO.

Instead, we have Rittenhouse - who's just shot a guy 4 times and killed him for swearing at him and "chasing him" and throwing a bag of clothes at him - shooting a guy (Huber) point blank for hitting him with a skateboard.

Instead of people being heralded for stopping an active shooter, people are wondering why it's bad for the active shooter to "defend himself."

(So the next time anyone shoots at an active shooter, this should be REALLY fucking interesting, as it will set precedent.)

While Rittenhouse is shooting Huber, Gaige Grosskreutz is standing next to Huber, holding a handgun, but doesn't shoot Rittenhouse. Grosskreutz is a certified EMT. Rittenhouse aims and shoots at another guy near Grosskreutz, twice, but misses. He then aims at Grosskreutz, but Rittenhouse's rifle jams, so he re-racks his rifle. Again, Grosskreutz doesn't shoot. Rittenhouse claims Grosskreutz was a threat, but in all this time, Grosskreutz hasn't shot Rittenhouse. The defense shows video of Grosskreutz aiming his gun at Rittenhouse, but Grosskreutz says that if you zoom in on that video, it's AFTER Rittenhouse has already shot Grosskreutz in that same arm with a high-caliber bullet from Rittenhouse's AR-15, totally fucking up Grosskreutz's arm and rendering his hand unusable.

"Self defense" must be in accordance with Wisconsin's written statutes, how they are written and defined, not how we perceive them.

Here are all of the charges that Rittenhouse faces (https://apnews.com/article/kyle-rittenhouse-police-shootings-wisconsin-kenosha-3febaa501c57a6b54e168353fe0b2a26):

COUNT 1: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESS HOMICIDE, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON (re Rosenbaum)

COUNT 2: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON - "This felony charge is connected to the Rosenbaum shooting. McGinniss (Reporter) told investigators he was in the line of fire when Rittenhouse shot Rosenbaum. The charge is punishable by 12 1/2 years in prison. The weapons modifier carries an additional five years.

COUNT 3: FIRST-DEGREE RECKLESSLY ENDANGERING SAFETY, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON: "Video shows an unknown man leaping at Rittenhouse and trying to kick him seconds before Anthony Huber moves his skateboard toward him. Rittenhouse appears to fire two rounds at the man but apparently misses as the man runs away."

COUNT 4: FIRST-DEGREE INTENTIONAL HOMICIDE, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON (re Huber)

COUNT 5: ATTEMPTED FIRST-DEGREE INTENTIONAL HOMICIDE, USE OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON (re Gaige Grosskreutz)

COUNT 6: POSSESSION OF A DANGEROUS WEAPON BY A PERSON UNDER 18


This wasn’t used at the trial, but here’s what Kyle’s all about. Arms for HIM and his White Supremacist friends, but not for anyone else:

https://twitter.com/occupydemocrats/status/1459740054373507074?s=21

[sweeterthan]

the idea that this was self defense also doesn’t work for me. minors aren’t allowed to carry. bottom line. he’s not a cop and he’s not a medic (no matter how many times he claims to be). if he’d gone there without a gun, no one would know his name. none of this would’ve happened.

[elevenism]

,I HATE this kid and what he's all about. He's all but a self avowed racist. We know he wished to kill black people. It seems obvious to ME that he went down there with an illegally obtained rifle, HOPING to shoot people.

But I understand that he could have felt that use of deadly force was necessary when Rosenbaum came running at him, when he was hit with a skateboard, and when the survivor drew on him.
BUT, that's likely the EXACT scenario that he was dreaming of, driving out there: to INSERT himself into a situation where he'd find himself in this position.
Intentional First Degree Homicide: i've not read the Wisconsin penal code, but does it require pre meditation? And, does purposely placing oneself in such an environment...can that amount to premeditation?

Then you've got the fucking cops THANKING these half price proud boys for being there and offering them water, thus emboldening them, the random handgun being fired into the air, the fact that Rosenbaum didn't seem to even know what he was DOING there, illustrated by him screaming the n word, what, three times that we know of? (That last part doesn't have a lot of bearing on the case, but is just another crazy thing in all of this.)

I've watched SO much of this. It's making my brain hurt.

I guess the bottom line for me is this: can you claim self defense for use of deadly force when you purposely insert yourself into an environment where you DO NOT belong, ostensibly HOPING to have the chance to exert said force?

[sweeterthan]

I guess the bottom line for me is this: can you claim self defense for use of deadly force when you purposely insert yourself into an environment where you DO NOT belong, ostensibly HOPING to have the chance to exert said force?

*while openly and illegally carrying a high powered weapon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Volband]

I guess the bottom line for me is this: can you claim self defense for use of deadly force when you purposely insert yourself into an environment where you DO NOT belong, ostensibly HOPING to have the chance to exert said force?
It should come down to how much you've done to actively provoke being attacked. If I start hitting your face like 5 times, you push me away then I shoot you, that should not be self-defense. But being an obnoxious asshole should not warrant being attacked by someone. The "problem" with a proper legal system is that it will defend people whom you'd like to see rotting away in a cell. But if it will be proved that all Kyle did was walking there with a gun, then it should not be ground for anyone to jump at him the way he got jumped. It wasn't his fault someone else fired a shot and it wasn't his fault that an idiot assumed it was him. I don't know how much the laws say about things you wish to happen but do not actively try to make it happen (ie. you don't ask your friend to shoot in the air and you don't purposefully follow a mentally deranged man who may misinterpret where the shots came from), but I don't think "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" hold up as law.


I don't want to comment on the biggest fucking issue here, which is guns, because you'd get the same, boring European insight on it, but it's so surreal that none of this could ever happen with proper gun laws and enforcement. That's one thing that a racist teenager is dreaming about playing call of duty, it's another that he actually have all the tools to do so.


*while openly and illegally carrying a high powered weapon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
But here's the problem: once you are in a situation where you are allowed to use self-defense, even by a deadly force, are you not allowed to use those weapons? It would be such a weird judgement to say that while he had the right to defend himself, but because he shouldn't be allowed to have those guns, he should've let himself to be potentially killed.

[elevenism]

*while openly and illegally carrying a high powered weapon


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Precisely. Damnit I wish I'd included that at the end, but if I do it now, it will make your post confusing. :/

But hell yes, while openly and illegally carrying a fucking AR-15.

Edit: Volband , BUT, I believe that in this case, his very PRESENCE while holding the AR-15 was INTENDED to provoke an attack.

[sweeterthan]

But here's the problem: once you are in a situation where you are allowed to use self-defense, even by a deadly force, are you not allowed to use those weapons? It would be such a weird judgement to say that while he had the right to defend himself, but because he shouldn't be allowed to have those guns, he should've let himself to be potentially killed.
no one would’ve viewed him as the shooter if he didn’t have the big gun. he brought it on himself. possessing the gun put him in danger.

[allegro]

Volband, here’s the Wisconsin self defense statute that jurors must use, below.

Note that it is MOSTLY intended for use as a "castle" doctrine, in protecting one's self in the event a dangerous intruder enters one's home, vehicle or business.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/939/iii/48

See (2), which is important. Prosecutors argued that Rittenhouse provoked the situation by aiming his gun at Rosenbaum, prompting Rosenbaum to respond.

Also, Rittenhouse had JUST SHOT AT the unknown “leaping man” - twice (and missed) - provoking Huber to RESPOND and defend HIMSELF and others by hitting Rittenhouse with the skateboard.

The defense tried to remove the “provoke” segment of the statute from the jury instructions, but the judge wouldn’t allow it.


(2) Provocation affects the privilege of self-defense as follows:

(a) A person who engages in unlawful conduct of a type likely to provoke others to attack him or her and thereby does provoke an attack is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense against such attack, except when the attack which ensues is of a type causing the person engaging in the unlawful conduct to reasonably believe that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. In such a case, the person engaging in the unlawful conduct is privileged to act in self-defense, but the person is not privileged to resort to the use of force intended or likely to cause death to the person's assailant unless the person reasonably believes he or she has exhausted every other reasonable means to escape from or otherwise avoid death or great bodily harm at the hands of his or her assailant.

(b) The privilege lost by provocation may be regained if the actor in good faith withdraws from the fight and gives adequate notice thereof to his or her assailant.

(c) A person who provokes an attack, whether by lawful or unlawful conduct, with intent to use such an attack as an excuse to cause death or great bodily harm to his or her assailant is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense.

See 6:



When a defendant testified that he did not intend to shoot or use force, he could not claim self-defense. Cleghorn v. State (https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=17264480782587722674&q=55+Wis.+2d+466&hl=en&as_sdt=4,50&as_vis=1), 55 Wis. 2d 466, 198 N.W.2d 577 (1972).

When a defendant successfully makes self-defense an issue, the jury must be instructed as to the state's burden of proof regarding the nature of the crime, even if the defense is a negative defense. Wisconsin JI-Criminal 801 informs the jury that it “should consider the evidence relating to self-defense in deciding whether the defendant's conduct created an unreasonable risk to another. If the defendant was acting lawfully in self-defense, [his] conduct did not create an unreasonable risk to another." This instruction implies that the defendant must satisfy the jury that the defendant was acting in self-defense and removes the burden of proof from the state to show that the defendant was engaged in criminally reckless conduct. State v. Austin, 2013 WI App 96, 349 Wis. 2d 744, 836 N.W.2d 833, 12-0011.

The primary issue in this case is whether or not Rittenhouse FELT threatened.

But, it’s also an issue of if Rittenhouse made OTHERS feel threatened (provocation).

There IS a heavily-argued matter as to the legality of Rittenhouse’s weapon. He might walk for THAT, because of the LENGTH of the rifle and a technicality.

The jury may also have “lesser charges” to consider re the deaths of Rosenbaum and Huber.

That kid has some VERY expensive defense attorneys, not paid for by him.

Gov. Evers has already called in the National Guard.

[allegro]

no one would’ve viewed him as the shooter if he didn’t have the big gun.

Meanwhile, in Georgia, a black guy without any gun at all, who was out jogging, as he did nearly every day, was followed by three "Confederate" white supremacist racist armed assholes who deemed themselves "volunteer" law enforcement, and followed Ahmaud Arbery in vehicles as Arbery checked out a house that was under construction (something I've done COUNTLESS TIMES).

As they chased him down, Arbery, not knowing why these big armed men were chasing him and DEMANDING that he stop, ran from the men. They finally shot Arbery POINT BLANK with shotguns. One shot, near his armpit, pretty much tore his arm clean off. Another, at his torso, tore completely through his torso. His mother saw the videos shown to the jury last week.

Those three pieces of excrement are claiming self-defense.

[elevenism]

I missed this horrifying case in Chicago last month, where five men were NOT charged for a deadly gang shootout; the prosecutors deemed it "Mutual Combat. (https://www.westernjournal.com/prosecutors-release-5-suspects-deadly-gang-shootout-no-charges-citing-mutual-combat/)" The cops were expecting 5 homicide charges, but the prosecutors didn't charge them with ANYTHING.

From what I've read, including some in the linked article, "mutual combat" is intended for like, a bar fight where no-one can determine the aggressor. It sounds sort of like a "boys will be boys" type of thing.
But NOW? It sounds like "meh. Gangs are going to shoot and kill each other in public; whattaya gonna do?"

This sends a HORRIFYING signal to gangs in Chicago: Public shootouts where people get killed aren't being prosecuted.

[allegro]

I missed this horrifying case in Chicago last month, where five men were NOT charged for a deadly gang shootout; the prosecutors deemed it "Mutual Combat. (https://www.westernjournal.com/prosecutors-release-5-suspects-deadly-gang-shootout-no-charges-citing-mutual-combat/)" The cops were expecting 5 homicide charges, but the prosecutors didn't charge them with ANYTHING.

From what I've read, including some in the linked article, "mutual combat" is intended for like, a bar fight where no-one can determine the aggressor. It sounds sort of like a "boys will be boys" type of thing.
But NOW? It sounds like "meh. Gangs are going to shoot and kill each other in public; whattaya gonna do?"

This sends a HORRIFYING signal to gangs in Chicago: Public shootouts where people get killed aren't being prosecuted.

It’s more complicated than that.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/criminal-justice/ct-met-west-side-shoot-out-dispute-20211008-uqxmzkx3pnggnase3256bm5lnq-story.html?outputType=amp

[allegate]

Infowars’ Alex Jones Guilty by Default in Sandy Hook Defamation Suits (https://www.thewrap.com/alex-jones-infowars-guilty-default/)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/YogXnhkWBH4IU0Ac0m33XFt1gBvdW-Xy49bvESm5FgXyGmQqOReD2ikX8RNOuA1jTKaBj2DQbe5KJ0qy-S6t_cHbwxTW9t6fgC6vam1bt8JYoxxH6XnbmKeszXp38qkXybe fvHWgxQwa0rA6

[allegro]

Rittenhouse’s Ticktock handle was “4DoorsMoreWhores”

Per the prosecution.

[allegro]

Infowars’ Alex Jones Guilty by Default in Sandy Hook Defamation Suits (https://www.thewrap.com/alex-jones-infowars-guilty-default/)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/YogXnhkWBH4IU0Ac0m33XFt1gBvdW-Xy49bvESm5FgXyGmQqOReD2ikX8RNOuA1jTKaBj2DQbe5KJ0qy-S6t_cHbwxTW9t6fgC6vam1bt8JYoxxH6XnbmKeszXp38qkXybe fvHWgxQwa0rA6

BY DEFAULT!!!! What a WIMP!!!

[Jinsai]

4 doors more whores? I… don’t get it.

the judge throwing out the charge for underage possession of a rifle… because there’s a provision allowing for hunting… jesus

[allegro]

4 doors more whores? I… don’t get it.

the judge throwing out the charge for underage possession of a rifle… because there’s a provision allowing for hunting… jesus

No it’s due to the wording of the statute and the length of the gun and his age. The AR-15 is not short-barreled, they measured it.

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/948/60/3/c


This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593. This section applies only to an adult who transfers a firearm to a person under 18 years of age if the person under 18 years of age is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593 or to an adult who is in violation of s. 941.28.

See 941.28 referenced above:

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/941/iii/28


941.28  Possession of short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle.
(1)  In this section:
(a) “Rifle" means a firearm designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder or hip and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of a propellant in a metallic cartridge to fire through a rifled barrel a single projectile for each pull of the trigger.
(b) “Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels having a length of less than 16 inches measured from closed breech or bolt face to muzzle or a rifle having an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(c) “Short-barreled shotgun" means a shotgun having one or more barrels having a length of less than 18 inches measured from closed breech or bolt face to muzzle or a shotgun having an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(d) “Shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder or hip and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of a propellant in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.


29.304
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/29/iv/304


29.304  Restrictions on hunting and use of firearms by persons under 16 years of age.
(1)  Persons under 12 years of age.
(a) Prohibition on hunting. No person under 12 years of age may hunt with a firearm, bow and arrow, or crossbow.
(b) Restrictions on possession or control of a firearm. No person under 12 years of age may have in his or her possession or control any firearm unless he or she is enrolled in the course of instruction under the hunter education program and he or she is carrying the firearm in a case and unloaded to or from that class under the supervision of his or her parent or guardian, or by a person at least 18 years of age who is designated by the parent or guardian, or is handling or operating the firearm during that class under the supervision of an instructor.
(c) Restrictions on obtaining hunting approval. Except as provided under par. (d), no person under 12 years of age may obtain any approval authorizing hunting.
(d) Restrictions on validity of certificate of accomplishment. A person under 12 years of age may obtain a certificate of accomplishment if he or she complies with the requirements of s. 29.591 (4) but that certificate is not valid for the hunting of small game until that person becomes 12 years of age.

29.593

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/29/viii/593


29.593  Requirement for certificate of accomplishment to obtain hunting approval.
(1) 
(a) Except as provided under subs. (2), (2m) and (3), and s. 29.592 (1), no person born on or after January 1, 1973, may obtain any approval authorizing hunting unless the person is issued a certificate of accomplishment under s. 29.591.
(b) A certificate of accomplishment issued to a person for successfully completing the course under the bow hunter education program only authorizes the person to obtain a resident archer hunting license, a nonresident archer hunting license, a resident crossbow hunting license, or a nonresident crossbow hunting license.
(2) A person who has a certificate, license, or other evidence that is satisfactory to the department indicating that he or she has successfully completed in another state, country, or province a hunter education course recognized by the department may obtain an approval authorizing hunting.
(2m) A person who has a certificate, license, or other evidence that is satisfactory to the department indicating that he or she has successfully completed in another state, country, or province a bow hunter education course recognized by the department may obtain an archer hunting license or crossbow hunting license.
(3) A person who successfully completes basic training in the U.S. armed forces, reserves or national guard may obtain an approval authorizing hunting.
(4) A person who is subject to sub. (1) may prove compliance with sub. (1) when submitting an application for an approval authorizing hunting by presenting any of the following:
(a) His or her certificate of accomplishment issued under s. 29.591.
(b) An approval authorizing hunting that was issued to him or her under this chapter within 365 days before submitting the application.
(c) An approval authorizing hunting that was issued to him or her under this chapter for a hunting season that ended within 365 days before submitting the application.
History: 1983 a. 420; 1991 a. 254; 1997 a. 27, 197; 1997 a. 248 ss. 427 to 430; Stats. 1997 s. 29.593; 1999 a. 32; 2005 a. 289; 2009 a. 39; 2013 a. 61.

[allegro]

4 doors more whores

I assume this means if you have a car …

[Jinsai]

Is this new video of him talking about how he wished he had his AR to fire at black people open carrying being shown to the jury?

this whole thing sickens me

[allegro]

Is this new video of him talking about how he wished he had his AR to fire at black people open carrying being shown to the jury?

Nope.

Only the events that day.

[elevenism]

I didn't watch ALL of the trial, but I saw more than I care to admit.

Were i on that jury, think I'd be leaning towards a homicide charge because of THIS language in the provocation bit of the statute @allegro (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) so kindly posted.
(c) A person who provokes an attack, whether by lawful or unlawful conduct, with intent to use such an attack as an excuse to cause death or great bodily harm to his or her assailant is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense.

​

[Jinsai]

I didn't watch ALL of the trial, but I saw more than I care to admit.

Were i on that jury, think I'd be leaning towards a homicide charge because of THIS language in the provocation bit of the statute @allegro (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) so kindly posted.
(c) A person who provokes an attack, whether by lawful or unlawful conduct, with intent to use such an attack as an excuse to cause death or great bodily harm to his or her assailant is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense.

​

Yep. Also,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43-UkBRooXY

[Pillfred]

I didn't watch ALL of the trial, but I saw more than I care to admit.

Were i on that jury, think I'd be leaning towards a homicide charge because of THIS language in the provocation bit of the statute @allegro (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=76) so kindly posted.
(c) A person who provokes an attack, whether by lawful or unlawful conduct, with intent to use such an attack as an excuse to cause death or great bodily harm to his or her assailant is not entitled to claim the privilege of self-defense.

​

Same but it was on Fox. A special kind of hell.

[allegro]

https://twitter.com/resuscgmedia/status/1459261871345651712?s=21

[allegro]

Really good article by David French:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/kyle-rittenhouse-right-self-defense-role-model/620715/

[sweeterthan]

this is also a good read.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/17/opinion/kyle-rittenhouse-guns.html


At every turn that night, Rittenhouse’s AR-15-style semiautomatic rifle made things worse, ratcheting up danger rather than quelling it. The gun transformed situations that might have ended in black eyes and broken bones into ones that ended with corpses in the street. And Rittenhouse’s gun was not just a danger to rival protesters. According to his own defense, the gun posed a grave threat to Rittenhouse himself — he said he feared being overpowered and then shot with his own weapon.

This is self-defense as circular reasoning: Rittenhouse says he carried a rifle in order to guarantee his safety during a violent protest. He was forced to shoot at four people when his life and the lives of other people were threatened, he says. What was he protecting everyone from? The gun strapped to his own body, the one he’d brought to keep everyone safe.

[cdm]

Rittenhouse verdict....incoming.

Edit: Not fucking guilty. Ridiculous. But expected, I guess.

[allegate]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b6/Jack_Ruby_mugshot.jpg

[GulDukat]

I was expecting a hung jury.

[sweeterthan]

america is stupid. that’s all i can say about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[richardp]

Honestly, I hope that fucking kid's life feels like a prison for the rest of his days. I hope that fucker can't get service anywhere. I hope he's bullied by everyone in public at all times to the point where he finds himself sitting in his room with his own AR45 lodged into his stupid fucking mouth wishing he wasn't here anymore.

[Jinsai]

can't claim I'm surprised. Why is it in the high profile cases, where everyone's watching, it always seems like the jury gets it completely wrong? Maybe in a few years, Rittenhouse can write a book called "I Got Away With It (And So Can You)!"

[GulDukat]

Honestly, I hope that fucking kid's life feels like a prison for the rest of his days. I hope that fucker can't get service anywhere. I hope he's bullied by everyone in public at all times to the point where he finds himself sitting in his room with his own AR45 lodged into his stupid fucking mouth wishing he wasn't here anymore.
He's a darling of the right. He might get a book deal or radio show off this.