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aggroculture
12-14-2012, 08:33 AM
This article makes me cautiously curious: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/09/opinion/sunday/bruni-bin-laden-torture-and-hollywood.html

I have still yet to see The Hurt Locker, but director Kathryn Bigelow made Point Break (that chase scene!) and Strange Days: two classic movies of my 90s youth.

Corvus T. Cosmonaut
12-14-2012, 10:15 PM
I'm bored with negative reviews going, "But torture! THUMBS DOWN!" I get that torture is reprehensible. I even understand that, so far as anyone is willing to admit publicly, torture was not used to obtain the information in real life that it uncovers in the film. But so many of these rants against the movie seem furious with the very idea that anything at all could have been obtained by torture, as if it has been ineffective and counter-productive in 100% of the cases of its use, and therefore any depiction of its success is akin to abiding genocide and is totally wrong and give some kind of credence to the harshest policies of Bush-era CIA. And I can't get on board with that. Additionally, they ask for more hand-wringing about the politics of it, debates and such back home. But if this is really such a laser-focused on-the-ground procedural film, why would that be depicted? Though what happens in Washington trickles down, sure, the political theater is worlds away from the field work.

I'm really interested, anyway, and hope I can make it down to L.A. to catch it in its Oscar-qualifying run. Who knows—maybe I'll walk out and think, "The torture aspect was so morally reprehensible it actually diminishes the film on its merits." Maybe.

onthewall2983
12-14-2012, 11:56 PM
This feels like the liberal inverse of the controversies around Million Dollar Baby when it came out. It absolutely annoyed me then when the conservatives rankled on something that nearly ruined the movie for me before I'd even seen it. This is a minor annoyance in comparison (because we all know how the film ends anyway), but it bugs me when people trample art in order to grandstand and soapbox us.

Hazekiah
12-15-2012, 01:20 AM
Personally, I'm just excited to see yet another fantastic film from Kathryn Bigelow.

And, yeah, Point Break and Strange Days are AWESOME...but they're both still kinda James Cameron projects too so that pretty much goes without saying. Anyone who hasn't seen The Hurt Locker yet should do so immediately, it's easily her finest work after their divorce.

I still think Avatar was robbed at the Oscars, but if it had to lost to ANYTHING then The Hurt Locker was an excellent choice.

Definitely one of the most epic showdowns any divorced couple has ever gone through, lol.

littlemonkey613
12-25-2012, 10:40 PM
This movie man....

My pick for Best Picture.

Jessica Chastain <3.

Also I don't understand the controversy. Such graphic torture doesn't need a moral tone to be applied when the reality is shown so viscerally. I don't think people with souls need to be babied and coddled and told torture is bad when its on screen in front of you. Moral ambiguity is the way to go when your not telling a story about torture, but are telling a story when torture is present. Nothing about this film said "condone" to me.

Ugh god this movie.

cahernandez
12-26-2012, 04:08 AM
This movie man....

My pick for Best Picture.

Jessica Chastain <3.

Also I don't understand the controversy. Such graphic torture doesn't need a moral tone to be applied when the reality is shown so viscerally. I don't think people with souls need to be babied and coddled and told torture is bad when its on screen in front of you. Moral ambiguity is the way to go when your not telling a story about torture, but are telling a story when torture is present. Nothing about this film said "condone" to me.

Ugh god this movie.

I actually thought the movie was not that great...Jessica Chastain's character was way too melodramatic, it was obvious that she was needed in the movie to make this whole "Bin Laden chase" engaging. I was disgusted by Chastain's lines "I'm the motherfucker who found Bin Laden's lair"...too forced. Typical Hollywood movie, showing the Americans as the heroes of this whole issue. It reminded me of the "W" movie, in the sense that the movie was OK, but you already know what's going to happen, there's nothing new in store.

At the end of the showing people clapped and I couldn't understand why. Were they clapping because they thought the film was good? Or because America caught the bad guy and killed it? I think people in this country are too obsessed with guns and "the evil guys in the Middle East".

littlemonkey613
12-26-2012, 04:55 AM
I think people in this country are too obsessed with guns and "the evil guys in the Middle East".

I think so too. Take any look at the message boards for Homeland and that much becomes very obvious. I think this HuffPo article says my thoughts about it best, " there is no morally neutral entertainment. But there is entertainment that allows the intelligence of the viewer to work out his and her own moral dilemmas concerning how we are to respond to the scenes streaming before us."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/g-roger-denson/zero-dark-thirty-defendin_b_2357702.html

Idiots will remain idiots since the film doesn't seek to educate or change perspective, whether this makes the filmmakers irresponsible could definitely be a legit discussion too.

But yeah Idk why this movie was exactly my cup of tea. I think the palpable tension Boal and Bigelow can create in every scene is stellar. That's what made The Hurt Locker awesome for me too. Also I'd refute the idea that it took the simplistic "Americans are the heroes" road. I'm no patriot andI'm really sensitive to when movies do take that route. I think there was a lot more going on here. (especially considering what they chose as the films final moments)

Also I don't agree with everything in that article. I just liked that line.

sentient02970
01-03-2013, 11:23 AM
I'm a big fan of war movies, everything since The Longest Day, A Bridge Too Far, Stalingrad, Midway, Valkyrie, Black Hawk Down...on and on. This, like The Hurt Locker, falls into the same bucket as being a modern day war film. So I'm just so perplexed over the whirling controversy over what is basically needed to do a war film based on a real event. You gather some details on what happened and you create a drama or scene around it. But instead we get all wrapped up in "how did they get secrets? who's to blame? does this legitimize torture? isn't this just propaganda?" on and on. I find it a bit ridiculous to cause so much rancor and politicizing over what is really just another war film. I for one am out to judge it on just that criteria alone.

Also I liked The Hurt Locker but it wasn't the best war film I ever saw.

Presideo
01-03-2013, 06:15 PM
I think the palpable tension Boal and Bigelow can create in every scene is stellar. That's what made The Hurt Locker awesome for me too.
That's exactly the reason I didn't enjoy The Hurt Locker. Call me old fashioned, but I think films should build up to one major climax, not have 5 or so climaxes packed into two hours. I felt nothing for the characters because I didn't get a chance to know them. There was no time for any character development because they were too busy trying not to get exploded during the entire duration of the movie. Trying to wrap emotion into a Red Bull-fueled war thriller just doesn't work very well.

Also, about the use of torture in Zero Dark Thirty…I understand that the writer and director don't have a duty to present the negative side of torture, but by not doing so, it certainly validates the criticism that the movie is an American revenge fantasy. If the writer and director are ok with it, then I am too…smut sells, right? (haven't seen the film, just giving my two cents on the issue)

Reznor2112
01-13-2013, 09:22 AM
Saw it last night and would gladly sit for another 2.5hrs to see it again. Fantastic film.

It does seem to drag around the beginning but in the context of the whole story it is a great build up and makes the ending just that much better.

Must say the opening 9/11 sequence was very well done and quite spooky and the surround mix made me jump a few times.

And if I may say so, Jessica Chastain and Jason Clarke are fucking bad asses in this movie. JC deserves an oscar nod.

littlemonkey613
01-13-2013, 03:01 PM
I thought it was fantastic as well. I think all the criticism is so so so wrong. This film was deliberate, ruthless and unforgiving of everything happening within it.

thevoid99
01-13-2013, 03:23 PM
I saw this yesterday w/ Promised Land (which was OK), this is definitely one of the year's best films and I definitely think Jessica Chastain will be the one to beat at the Oscars.

Deepvoid
01-13-2013, 03:39 PM
I think the issue is not torture itself but the fact that they did not obtain the said intel through torture. They portrait torture as an effective means of obtaining information and in this case, it was not the truth.

Self.Destructive.Pattern
01-13-2013, 04:07 PM
I loved The Hurt Locker, and I thought that all the climaxes it had made it such a great, intense film. I was on the edge of my seat every time something was going down or was about to happen. The ONLY thing I hated about the movie was the end and the cheesy walk away with the song that was playing in the background.


Zero Dark Thirty can suck my balls until a screener or rip comes out.

richardp
01-13-2013, 07:41 PM
Dude a Zero Dark screaner leaked like, a week and a half ago.

Corvus T. Cosmonaut
01-14-2013, 03:52 AM
I think the issue is not torture itself but the fact that they did not obtain the said intel through torture. They portrait torture as an effective means of obtaining information and in this case, it was not the truth.
They don't obtain said intel through torture in the movie, either, though someone else could certainly argue that the torture was necessary to put the detainee in a position (sleep deprivation, disorientation) where he would later give up the intel freely.

theimage13
01-14-2013, 08:10 AM
...in the sense that the movie was OK, but you already know what's going to happen, there's nothing new in store...

Someone needs to watch Inglorious Basterds then ;)

cahernandez
01-15-2013, 03:25 PM
I don't know guys, I still don't get all the praise for this film. I feel like I watched a 2.5 hr commercial to join the army, it was all propaganda to me. It's disgusting how a world event like this one was turned into an entertainment piece for mass consumption.

littlemonkey613
01-15-2013, 04:18 PM
I don't know guys, I still don't get all the praise for this film. I feel like I watched a 2.5 hr commercial to join the army, it was all propaganda to me. It's disgusting how a world event like this one was turned into an entertainment piece for mass consumption.

I still think everything points to the contrary. It seemed they went to great lengths to not celebrate with the characters. Every time Maya is happy or celebrating, nothing from a filmmaking perspective adapts to her emotions. The score for the raid (especially after) was nothing but somber and dark. Then of course there's the fact that anytime the characters try to act "normal" or anything but sociopathic its weird and awkward. It came off as more of a sterile character study than propaganda to me. Especially since the writing in terms of the SEALs didn't try and make them seem like heroic personas in the least. They acted like a bunch of dicks. Also I can't really accept that they would choose to end the film the way they did if they wanted you to walk away with feeling accomplished and proud. Thats not what her acting said to me anyways.

Presideo
01-15-2013, 04:30 PM
I couldn't get over how much the 2nd half of the film masquerades as a cheesy '80s cop drama:

- "Goddammit chief, I know where this sonofabitch is! Just give me the warrant and I'll make sure this mothafucker gets what he deserves."
- "You're a loose canon, Maya! One more wrong move and they'll strip your badge. Now sit tight and wait for justice to run its-"
- "FUCK THAT! We got this bastard in our cross-hares NOW, and I ain't gonna let him slip away again!"

sentient02970
01-20-2013, 09:49 PM
I really enjoyed this tonight. It had fun elements of a spy thriller along with what unfolded as a narrative of warfare in our times. I found none of it pushy or propaganda in any way. I think Bigelow set out what she wanted to do and that was to tell the tale as she heard it without any heavy-handed politics or opinion. It's dark, dirty and honest about how this sort of thing rolls out.

Sallos
01-29-2013, 08:19 AM
Not a bad movie. The torture sequences plus the abottabad raid sequence were excellent. After seeing 2 documentaries about Bin Laden's capture i was kinda spoiled on how the whole movie would go down. It also kinda felt like i was watching Homeland: The movie.

Sutekh
01-29-2013, 08:31 AM
Weird how people condemn a morally ambiguous depiction of torture in a movie, but carry on paying their taxes and not really protesting about the issue IRL

bobbie solo
01-29-2013, 11:57 PM
well, in theory we stopped the practice, right? That's what Obama claims anyway. He's a huge pussy, a liar, and basically a middle0right politician though, so who knows.

elevenism
04-24-2013, 11:28 AM
this movie felt like gvmt propaganda to me.