UN recognizes Palestine as non-member observer state

[orestes]

This is big news. (http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/29/15546351-un-upgrades-palestinian-status-bolstering-statehood-claim?lite)

[allegro]

It really IS! We're witnessing history that I never thought I'd see in my lifetime.

[slave2thewage]

And Israel reacts to the ruling... (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20552391)

[allegro]

Ugh wtf. WHY CAN'T THEY JUST GET ALONG???????

[PooPooMeowChow]

Extremely embarrassed to be Canadian right now.

[marodi]

Extremely embarrassed to be Canadian right now.

But wool is so comfortable in winter...

[slave2thewage]

Israel's second response - Cutting off tax revenues over to the Palestinians (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/02/israel-palestinian-tax-revenue-un-vote)

Seriously, they are just a shower of cunts.

[Fixer808]

Makin' yourselves look good, Israel! Are there any baseballs left in the West Bank? No, because Israelis took them all and went home.

[slave2thewage]

Can someone give me a brief overview as to why the US is so tight with Israel? I know that it has the second-highest Jewish population outside of it, but given the whole "we spread democracy and liberty" spiel, it seems to be a bit hypocritical with the blatant apartheid that's going on.

[Alexandros]

Can someone give me a brief overview as to why the US is so tight with Israel? I know that it has the second-highest Jewish population outside of it, but given the whole "we spread democracy and liberty" spiel, it seems to be a bit hypocritical with the blatant apartheid that's going on.

I don't think you need to look any further than the geopolitical/economic significance of that region. I'm guessing the US feels that Israel is the most reliable ally they can have over there. And really, when did ideals ever get in the way of business and power games?

[Jinsai]

I'm surprised to see such a one sided stance here against Israel. I'm not a blind supporter, actually I tend not to touch the topic with a ten foot pole because people can be incredibly sensitive about it. Still, to reduce the analysis to viewing Palestine as solely the victim is more than a bit of a misrepresentation.

[Elke]

You have to admit Jinsai that the Israeli refusal to stop building new settlements on Palestinian soil in the wake of a) a very brief but casualty-laden rekindling of the armed conflict and b) the second-to-last step in UN recognition of Palestina as a sovereign nation is kind of like a big fat fuck you on their part?

I think Israel has justified its actions in the past 45 years with a kind of righteous anger: we're being attack, we're at risk and if you can't see that you're against us. It doesn't help that during this period any criticism of the Israeli government was immediately reduced to anti-semitism. If you're a military Goliath crushing an increasingly impoverished David, at one point the battle for international support will be lost.

It doesn't help Israel that a lot of media are outspokenly left-wing, and lean to supporting the underdog, which in this case are clearly the Palestinian people. And it also doesn't help that the world's least favourite big brother, Uncle Sam, is such an outspoken supporter of the Israeli regime - even when that regime fucking blows.

So the one-sided support for the Palestinian people doesn't really surprise me at all. I do feel that the international community is not investing enough time, effort, money and media attention in the many Israeli peace initiatives. By focussing solely on certain aspects of the conflict, the prism through which we view things is completely skewed, resulting in horrid attacks by muslim youth on anti-zionist chassidic jews in France, Belgium and the UK, for instance.

The problem is that the conflicted is so symbolic and so mediatized, that it has in effect become a global conflict. Like a football match that is essential a game of 22, but that can errupt in massive riots and fights if the outcome isn't what one hooligan clan wants. We have invested emotionally in this conflict, more than any other, and it's brought the conflict to our doorstep, making it even harder to look at it objectively.

I'm ranting, sorry.

[orestes]

Hey, now, why don't we call a spade a spade and say that Israel is a war-mongering bully who are so short-sighted in their pursuit of preserving the state of Israel that it undermines its own existence. When you police and restrict free movement of an entire population, right down to its caloric intake (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/10/17/us-palestinians-israel-gaza-idUSBRE89G0NM20121017), then don't be surprised when you have blowback.

And Palestinians aren't the only peoples (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/05/eritrean-refugees-at-israeli-egyptian-border) Israel has a problem (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/israeli-deportation-of-south-sudan-refugees-signals-policy-shift/2012/06/15/gJQAKAEgeV_blog.html) with.

[Aaron]

Can someone give me a brief overview as to why the US is so tight with Israel? I know that it has the second-highest Jewish population outside of it,
For the record, Judaism is not Zionism.

[Sutekh]

I believe the situation is seemingly intractable because the conflict is mischaracterised by almost everyone. It's not a state vs state war, for starters. The sooner both sides (and almost more importantly, their respective backers) recognise each other as legitimate entities, the sooner they can start addressing the issue in the appropriate - and effective, way - treating it as a civil conflict. Either they do that, or it will just go on and on - unless one side manages something ridiculously improbable like somehow killing every single member of the other side.

I do feel that Fatah and even HAMAS have softened somewhat these days (HAMAS has practically disowned its vehemently militant charter), this whole UN thing shows that they are trying to win what they want by playing the game. Because they know that they can't beat 120 nukes with qassam rockets and bombs on buses. Israel really should take the opportunity to engage Palestine via the UN rather than carrying on this war.

One is left to wonder what kind of status quo Israel wants? There was a clear opportunity here to maybe brings things down a level, but instead they build more settlements. It's odd. Do they want a constant low level civil conflict within their borders? Why don't they just roll in and actually ethnically cleanse the Palestinian territories? Not that I'm advocating they do that, my point is They don't seem to be pushing towards either peace or total war, I struggle to see what they are trying to achieve

Maybe democracy is stifling their ability to act decisively, nobody wants to pursue too extreme a course of action for fear of alienating swathes of voters

Can someone give me a brief overview as to why the US is so tight with Israel? I know that it has the second-highest Jewish population outside of it, but given the whole "we spread democracy and liberty" spiel, it seems to be a bit hypocritical with the blatant apartheid that's going on.

There's a few reasons but the main two are
- the AIPAC lobby. The Jewish vote is relatively minor in America, it's the lobbying groups that motivate changes
- strategic importance of Israel as a defence/intelligence asset

[Elke]

^ Mostly the second though. Europe has a much stronger jewish presence than the US plus about a gazillion tonnes of remaining WW2 guilt, but the EU is quite firmly backing Palestina.

[aggroculture]

This is crazy: http://mondoweiss.net/2014/01/punishing-israel-boycott.html
The ironies are mind-boggling, these politicians acting as if Israel isn't a state founded on racial discrimination.

[elevenism]

Can someone give me a brief overview as to why the US is so tight with Israel? I know that it has the second-highest Jewish population outside of it, but given the whole "we spread democracy and liberty" spiel, it seems to be a bit hypocritical with the blatant apartheid that's going on.
This is something i bring up to SOMEONE at least once a week. Don't think we know just cause we're yanks.


Edit: and no, i'm not a muslim or an anti-semite ...i'm a standard issue cracker.
But i'm also the one commie pinko bleeding heart ultra-left wing liberal left in west texas. i root for oppressed people everywhere, and at the current time, under the current conditions, i feel that Palestinians are severely oppressed. It would be bad enough if we turned a blind eye, but we actually fucking FACILITATE it as far as i can tell.

It's fucking imperialism. I lived with my ex, a Japanese girl, for three years, and she sold me on this. It's just a fucking piece on a chessboard...like the nice little square we occupy in Okinawa.

[allegro]

Ever play this game?

http://arizona.todaysmama.com/files/2010/03/Risk.jpg

[aggroculture]

Isn't it pretty huge that John Kerry used the word "apartheid" in connection to Israel?
I haven't heard much about this from either side.

[slave2thewage]

Well, at least there's a ceasefire in Gaza right now.