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bubbletea
11-05-2012, 08:03 PM
Over at www.ams-net.org/neworleans/abstracts.pdf, one may notice an abstract for the paper “The Purest Feeling”: Re-constructing the Creative Process and Revealing Stylistic Boundaries within Nine Inch Nails’ Pretty Hate Machine." I was fortunate enough to see this paper presented this past weekend, and Dr. Hanley played (as part of a much larger point) some previously unreleased, unbootlegged demos of "Kinda I Want To" and "That's What I Get," the latter of which was clearly originally titled "I Can Make Myself Forget." I don't want to give away too many details, but I figured that for the record, NINnies might want to know how far back the roots of these songs go.


And no, these demos will not be leaked now or ever. And no, don't go bothering good folks about them. I think that would be quite unwelcome.

BenAkenobi
11-06-2012, 02:53 AM
cool story bro. can you be bothered to type any lyrics that weren't featured on album just in case you happen to remember some of it?

sheepdean
11-06-2012, 04:36 AM
With that alone, it's really not much to go on. Would it be absolutely wrong to contact about SOME kind of info, even if it's not the audio?

SM Rollinger
11-06-2012, 06:49 AM
This is either BS, or these are the folks that ended up with the Martin Atkins demo tape (or another copy of it maybe? im sure tr had made more than one copy of that thing if he was using it to try to drum up label support.) Gonna need more info bro

ItsJustDave
11-06-2012, 07:24 AM
And no, these demos will not be leaked now or ever. And no, don't go bothering good folks about them. I think that would be quite unwelcome.

Because you are speaking so authoritatively on the subject, I would assume you might be able to speak to just whose interests are being protected here?

MAD
11-06-2012, 09:50 AM
Good to know. :o:):(:confused::mad::p;):D:rolleyes::eek:

bubbletea
11-06-2012, 10:09 AM
Hey there. Thanks for the questions. Here's what I can tell you about the specifics.

The "That's What I Get" demo, called "I Can Make Myself Forget" had a call-and-response verse, where after each line there was a backing vocal that said something to the tune of "But you're still the only one for me." Also, the chorus was, unsurprisingly, "I can make myself forget," which (I'm going on memory here) was followed by "... about you." Dr. Hanley made the reasonable argument that between these two lyrical changes, the song turned from a self-pitying supplication into a song of self-loathing, which is much more like the NIN we all know and love.

There was a sax solo, basically two notes (tonic and subtonic), with lots of echo and delay.

From what I gather, these are not the Martin Atkins tapes. The Atkins demo was of mixes that came pretty late in the process of making PHM, and these were, according to Dr. Hanley, made before the 1988 Skinny Puppy tour.

As for the source, they came from an old friend of Trent's in Cleveland, from what I understand—one who doesn't want them leaked (else they'd have been bootlegged long, long ago).

sheepdean
11-06-2012, 10:11 AM
One wonders why, if they're not to be leaked, they were given to what was a public performance...

bubbletea
11-06-2012, 10:11 AM
The "Kinda I Want To" demo wasn't much different than the early version with the big acoustic guitar on the prechorus. Same chords, just no acoustic guitar. Also, there was a backbeat, I believe. In the presentation, it was juxtaposed with a Slam Bam Boo song for reference.

bubbletea
11-06-2012, 10:13 AM
Yup. From what I gather, they were reluctantly entrusted to the presenter with the caveat that only parts of them would be played, and only once. To make clear, the full songs were not played—just 40-second snippets or so.

fillow
11-06-2012, 10:54 AM
I wonder how a thing like this could be kept under the radar in the first place (i mean the presentation). And in New Orleans FFS! Did they keep the theme totally unannounced?

GentlemanLoser
11-06-2012, 02:37 PM
That different version of "That's What I Get" sounds like it was pretty cool. Love the idea of call and response there.

SM Rollinger
11-06-2012, 05:53 PM
Im still not convinced, id find it hard that anybody with this sort of appreceation towards NIN today in 2012, would take such an elitist approach towards "guarding" these demos.

Hazekiah
11-06-2012, 07:09 PM
Sadly, hoarders will always exist and -- even more sadly -- hoarders will always think they're actually doing a good thing by hoarding.

Ugh.

SM Rollinger
11-06-2012, 07:57 PM
Hopefuly someday, TR will "open the vaults".

It would be great to hear stuff like this demo tape, among other stuff like more of any version of "Sex Dwarf" and anything from "Lovegun". Possibly "Just Do It" even?

sheepdean
11-06-2012, 11:24 PM
Hopefuly someday, TR will "open the vaults".
Someday, we'll get Interscope Records' Nine Inch Nails: The Early Sessions for $25 you mean

Hazekiah
11-07-2012, 12:54 AM
^ Can I go ahead and pledge TWICE as much for BOTH options, plz?

FernandoDante
11-07-2012, 01:17 AM
Im still not convinced, id find it hard that anybody with this sort of appreceation towards NIN today in 2012, would take such an elitist approach towards "guarding" these demos.


Sadly, hoarders will always exist and -- even more sadly -- hoarders will always think they're actually doing a good thing by hoarding.

Ugh.
I couldn't agree more. Why would people keep shit like this under veils? What silly sense of entitlement do they get from it? And to see it coming from a NIN fan is even worse.

bubbletea
11-07-2012, 02:06 AM
As I said, I think the source is more of an old friend of Trent's than a modern NIN fan. Could it be that her/his ongoing friendship matters more than embarrassing Trent for some internet glory?

gorast
11-07-2012, 02:12 AM
As I said, I think the source is more of an old friend of Trent's than a modern NIN fan. Could it be that her/his ongoing friendship matters more than embarrassing Trent for some internet glory?
How exactly would it be considered "embarrassing Trent", though? Plenty of his "friends" and coworkers have leaked his shit before. It seems like Trent just tends to shrug it off and move on.

Frozen Beach
11-07-2012, 03:14 AM
As I said, I think the source is more of an old friend of Trent's than a modern NIN fan. Could it be that her/his ongoing friendship matters more than embarrassing Trent for some internet glory?
Have you not seen his red robe photo? Trent no longer has anything to embarrassed about after that.

Besides, these demos can't be that much more cheesy than the ones on Purest Feeling.

Highly Psychological
11-07-2012, 09:55 AM
I want to hear this sax solo in 'I can make myself forget'. Souunds so 80s. I absolutely love Maybe Just Once, i want more synth pop NIN. It cant be worse than Slam Bamboo or Trents attempt at a British accent on the Billy Idol cover 'Two Eyes Without a face'.

Hazekiah
11-07-2012, 10:00 AM
No shit! He played sax as late as "My Monkey" in '93-'94 as part of The Pitiful Pot Pie Brass Section on Portrait of an American Family and YET AGAIN in '95 live on tour with Bowie so WTF let's hear that shit! Hell, he's even continued with the call-and-response motif as recently as 2007 on Year Zero, ffs. THIS IS BULLSHIT. :(

eversonpoe
11-07-2012, 10:16 AM
he also played sax on "Driver Down" on the lost highway soundtrack. which is honestly one of my favourite things trent has ever done.

TheBang
11-08-2012, 04:23 PM
Thanks for coming back and providing actual details and information about what you heard. This is interesting stuff.

bubbletea
11-08-2012, 04:38 PM
No prob. The other thing I recall is that the "Kinda I Want To" demo peaked with the prechorus and really went to low energy on the titular refrain. It cut the momentum. And one of the songs (I think it was "I Can Make Myself Forget") had a walking bass, originally. Very funky, in a Huey Lewis sort of way.

SM Rollinger
11-08-2012, 09:44 PM
This is a great thread.

But seriously, even if it was a straight up processed for mass consumption, New Wave-ed out version of Kinda I Want To, i think its highly unlikely to embaress TR. Especially when you consider that Purest Feeling leaked back in what, 1995 1996? That was during the crazed, drugged out, Mr. Self Destruct era, when the thought of him recording somethilng like PF was neigh unthinkable to the majority of the public. At least he doesnt try to deny that period happened (ala Al Jourgensen).

I do love the PF version of Kinda I want To, though. It makes me feel like im on a Carnival Cruise ship in the Bahamas. And when he sings the "but kinda i want to" part, man thats just brilliant!

ManBurning
11-10-2012, 01:34 PM
Besides, these demos can't be that much more cheesy than the ones on Purest Feeling.

I LOVE the purest feeling demos! I would even go as far as saying I like some of them more than the originals!

bubbletea
11-13-2012, 11:00 AM
KingBacon, did you actually look at the .pdf linked up top? I doubt that the American Musicological Society makes it a habit of presenting papers based on music randomly made up by fanboys. I also suppose you didn't look at the presenter's credentials (e.g. the fact that he has a Ph.D., works at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and is Cleveland-based), but hey, doubt all you want.

Leviathant
11-13-2012, 11:01 AM
KingBacon, did you actually look at the .pdf linked up top? I doubt that the American Musicological Society makes it a habit of presenting papers based on music randomly made up by fanboys. I also suppose you didn't look at the presenter's credentials (e.g. the fact that he has a Ph.D., works at the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and is Cleveland-based), but hey, doubt all you want.

The guy's got a single post to his name - I wouldn't trouble yourself with his disbelief.

Neutron Zenith
11-13-2012, 11:46 PM
This post made me do some digging. I came across a full graduate thesis by Hanley from 2011 (PDF (http://dspace.sunyconnect.suny.edu/bitstream/handle/1951/56018/Hanley_grad.sunysb_0771E_10680.pdf) - PHM topic starts on page 360). This seems to be the basis for the recent presentation.

It seems his source for the demo material was early drummer Ron Musarra:


These demos have never been released and were privately played for me by original Nine Inch Nails drummer Ron Musarra. Very few people outside of the musicians who created the music have ever heard these early recordings.

What I find more interesting, is the suggestion that the "Purest Feeling" bootleg that's been floating around forever was not actually recorded in Cleveland, but in London:


The London demos have been released on various bootleg CDs in the last fifteen years and are currently available on many fan websites and Youtube.com.

Callahan
11-14-2012, 12:05 AM
A quick Google search of Ron Musarra brought me to his MySpace (http://www.myspace.com/video/ronmusarra)page.

I have never seen that live NIN version of Sex Dwarf before. The only memory I have of that, is the little teaser blurb that was heard on Closure, Unless I have completely forgot about this performance?

EDIT: hmm...after more looking, looks like this video is on YouTube as well. I must have missed this one then!

sheepdean
11-14-2012, 02:38 AM
What I find more interesting, is the suggestion that the "Purest Feeling" bootleg that's been floating around forever was not actually recorded in Cleveland, but in London:
We know that Trent recorded a fair amount of music in London (Down In It was recorded in its entirety here), and seeing as the only info we have on the bootleg really comes from the bootleg and other unreliable sources, I wouldn't call it impossible that it might come from somewhere other than Cleveland.

sick among the pure
11-14-2012, 03:47 AM
We know that Trent recorded a fair amount of music in London (Down In It was recorded in its entirety here), and seeing as the only info we have on the bootleg really comes from the bootleg and other unreliable sources, I wouldn't call it impossible that it might come from somewhere other than Cleveland.

Regarding Down In It, when I saw NIN in Cleveland (LITS tour?) mentioned something along the lines of "this is the first song I ever did for Nine Inch Nails, right here in Clevelend. I have a lot of good memories, here." before playing Down In It. I'm guessing that would mean he wrote the lyrics for Down In It before going to London, and recorded it there? From what I understood about the way Trent writes, that doesn't sound right.
I'm not saying you're a liar, I'm just very surprised with this news, and a bit confused.

sheepdean
11-14-2012, 03:50 AM
Well, in London he said that that was "the first song he ever recorded, here in London" or something like that. Maybe he was just talking crap, but I know SOME of PHM was done in London

fillow
11-14-2012, 04:56 AM
Ron Musarra can definitely be a source for the demos. In the past he also shared some previously unseen (cough) Slam Bamboo live footage featuring TR

eversonpoe
11-15-2012, 12:29 AM
Ron Musarra can definitely be a source for the demos. In the past he also shared some previously unseen (cough) Slam Bamboo live footage featuring TR

just occurred to me that Slam Bamboo would be a really good name for a pornstar...

Damion
11-22-2012, 11:54 AM
At the end of the day, it doesn't matter that you doubt anything. Oh look, the internet has "Possible" information.

The original poster didn't have to post anything, but decided to because it's a Nails forum.

If it's not true, big deal. If it is true, you're probably still not going to be "PROVED wrong"

And as far as post count goes....I believe you have 2. If we're counting....and it still mean's nothing.




No disrespect, Levi, but BubbleTea has 8 posts... And if it weren't for this very thread, how many would it be?

I'm sorry the pdf offers nothing substantial. I don't doubt Dr. Hanley's credentials. I doubt BubbleTea's. This is shaky second information. How do we know for sure that what BubbleTea "heard" wasn't just the Purest Feeling recordings?

Anyway, with that said, I would love to be PROVED wrong.

Damion
11-22-2012, 11:57 AM
We know that Trent recorded a fair amount of music in London (Down In It was recorded in its entirety here), and seeing as the only info we have on the bootleg really comes from the bootleg and other unreliable sources, I wouldn't call it impossible that it might come from somewhere other than Cleveland.

More than likely the original down in it concept demo was worked on and written in Cleveland and then once in london, properly recorded :]

KingBacon
11-23-2012, 01:55 AM
@Bubbletea

I know its somewhat after the fact, but I have respectfully retracted my initial comments. They weren't meant to be mean spirited, but I could see where they might have been interpreted as such. You see its not uncommon for people to want to hoax die hard fans... I'm sorry if I was overtly defensive. :(

I also owe you a sincere thank you for bringing this to the table. Real or not. I'm a bigfoot fan. I just wish I could have been there to see bigfoot with you....

BenAkenobi
11-23-2012, 04:51 AM
for me PHM is a vast and solid improvement over all of the demos in circulation, so the fact i won't hear a couple other demos doesn't make a difference.

Ryan
03-14-2016, 04:07 AM
for me PHM is a vast and solid improvement over all of the demos in circulation, so the fact i won't hear a couple other demos doesn't make a difference.

I hadn't seen this thread before and felt sad that they didn't leak, then I read this post and I felt instantly better.

WorzelG
03-14-2016, 06:44 AM
Damn I wish this thread hadn't been bumped, now I want to hear the dance synth pop tune 'I'm not listening'

emptydesk
03-14-2016, 10:41 AM
I like how mad people got in this thread at the idea that some old friend would rather not betray whatever trust he may have with TR in order to please some internet people.

billpulsipher
03-14-2016, 12:47 PM
tired of reading posts from clowns who have "unearthed uncirculated NIN concert films" or "never before heard NIN demos" then they can brag about it on NIN interweb forums but never release them to anyone...either put up or shut up is my philosophy....

Leviathant
03-14-2016, 02:20 PM
Goodnight everybody!