PDA

View Full Version : Controversial Cinema-Related Opinions



Pages : [1] 2

Ruined
09-12-2012, 06:31 PM
I couldn't find a thread to spout controversial opinion on anything cinema-related, so, here you go: From actors, to films and directors, let us know if you have what might be deemed a "controversial" opinion regarding cinema. For starters, I have grown to strongly dislike the work of Paul Thomas Anderson: It started with "Punch Drunk Love" and grew with "There Will Be Blood." It seems that PTA has become so full of himself that he doesn't really need to be bothered with plot. Instead, he merely provides (at best) a loose narrative and (more often) random scenery on which actors can chew (see, for example, Daniel Day-Lewis). Now, with excerpts from his latest "masterpiece," "The Master," it looks like more of the same. Wow, a scene where Joaquin Phoenix takes a Rorshach test and sees pussy and cum in each image; how powerful. It's a shame as I enjoyed the quirks, and originality, of "Magnolia" and "Boogie Nights." Now it just seems like masturbatory bullshit, providing contrived "powerful" scenes in which actors can emote and garner Oscar/Golden Globe buzz and passing it off as "art."

Corvus T. Cosmonaut
09-12-2012, 09:54 PM
Do we really need this? Like, separate from the 'Shitty Movies' thread, and just about every other thread in the forum? Your opinions are not controversial: they're, like, just your opinions, man.

Aladdinsanity
09-12-2012, 10:40 PM
From what I gather, there's a thread for shitty music where people discuss what is shitty via the general consensus, whereas the "controversial music opinions" thread is where people can discuss not seeing the appeal in music that otherwise receives mass acclaim. This thread would be an analogue of the latter.

Ruined
09-12-2012, 11:37 PM
From what I gather, there's a thread for shitty music where people discuss what is shitty via the general consensus, whereas the "controversial music opinions" thread is where people can discuss not seeing the appeal in music that otherwise receives mass acclaim. This thread would be an analogue of the latter.

Exactly: This not just for stating cinematic issues people dislike, but, also maybe things that they do like (but may not be that obvious). These are, after all, discussion forums. I take it if an admin. thought this redundant, they'd remove it. I often find it odd when people jump into a discussion forum to merely complain about its existence. If it's not your thing, simply move on and ignore. I've found some rather interesting discussions generated in the controversial music thread and was surprised that a similar cinema thread did not exist (I searched). I did not "shit on" all of PTA's work, I just don't get why he's being lauded for his more recent work which I find lacking. Hell, I'm sure there's someone out there that might think a movie like "Independence Day" was cool or that Michael Bay's work is great and might want to discuss it here. If not, move on and ignore this thread. Simple.

Corvus T. Cosmonaut
09-13-2012, 01:51 AM
I've found some rather interesting discussions generated in the controversial music thread
I haven't. But, okay: I'll play ball. (Did someone say you "shit on" all of PTA's work? I'm not sure how you so decisively swung back around onto that, with the quotes.)


It seems that PTA has become so full of himself that he doesn't really need to be bothered with plot.
What does that mean, 'so full of himself'? How is being full of himself connected to the style of plotting he used? Why should we consider a less conventionally-plotted movie as indicating that a filmmaker is 'full of himself'?

Because while I won't see The Master until Saturday, I have seen Anderson's other work in question, and they were all definitively adorned with plot. He may have bent the rules of the three-act Hollywood formula, and it works to the films' credit. You are aware, are you, that there are other ways to tell a story, right? That the 'action leads to action leads to action' (action not as action sequence, but as characters doing and experiencing overt plot-related checkpoints) sort of thing, with protagonist is met/meets conflict/overcomes conflict being generally optional, right? Because if you're not, cinema's going to offer you omelettes and you're going to be stuck there eating Cap'n Crunch.

What about the plot didn't work for you?


Instead, he merely provides (at best) a loose narrative and (more often) random scenery on which actors can chew (see, for example, Daniel Day-Lewis).
Do you have any examples of this looseness? Scenes that just seem thrown in so Daniel Day-Lewis can dominate the environment?


Now it just seems like masturbatory bullshit, providing contrived "powerful" scenes in which actors can emote and garner Oscar/Golden Globe buzz and passing it off as "art."
I'VE ABANDONED MY CHILD! I'VE ABANDONED MY CHILD! I'VE ABANDONED MY— wait, what are you even saying here? Are you suggesting that he wrote his recent films specifically up to and around these oft-praised sequences because he was fishing for statues? Day-Lewis co-wrote a lot of his dialogue; did they pass the script back and forth, writing notes in the margins "THIS IS GOING TO BE MY BIG SCENE" "YOU'RE GOING TO KNOCK 'EM ALL DEAD, D." "CHA-CHING!" (etc.) There's stuff like Daniel's baptism, the derrick explosion, Daniel's explanation of milkshakes and picking up a spare on Eli, but while these are very DRAMATIC! they're also clearly fixated on forward-motion of the plot and it feels a bit off-base to damn them as some kind of elitist pandering. Of course Anderson could have written the film so it simply flowed differently, but then we're getting into the great black hole of these debates, where what we're really talking about is the director's gall—the outrageous nerve!—to have his own ideas about how to tell his story.

The perceived power of a scene is your own, and for me (and for others I've talked to—fans—re: TWBB), a lot of the more important, affecting moments are ones that draw less attention to themselves, are more character-driven. This isn't because the major dramatic moments aren't as good, but because they create kind of focused points in the story, sort-of bottlenecks, like, that the more low-key scenes later riff on and develop into the forward movement of the picture.

So we tend to get into some trouble when speculating for whom someone was writing their film, or why.




Anyway, because participation was important, here's something controversial: Johnny Depp is not a great actor! (anymore)

It's true! I know it—I've seen his movies!

Somewhere, I'm not sure where exactly—some may put it around the time of the first Pirates, but I think it probably stretches back to Fear & Loathing—somewhere Depp decided that he'd given up on reaching for the deeper, more interesting roles he played in the past, and focused instead on caricatures, becoming a kind of critically-lauded version of Jim Carrey, doing the rubber-faced thing and playing dress-up. Johnny Depp plays weirdos! Aren't these people weirdos? Johnny Depp really feels with, like, you know, the outcasts. The outsiders. And so he's going to fit himself into every molding hole Tim Burton tries to shove him in.

And doing the ridiculous stuff would be fine, normally. An actor's entitled to that, and when they get stuck on a streak we can often chalk it up to type-casting and the general closing of doors that sometimes happens when an actor makes a big wave in some big, eccentric role. But Depp's done more serious stuff over the past decade, too, and while he's not bad, he has lost that old sensitivity that stitched him into the heads and hearts of characters and made him real and vulnerable and present in his great movies, and even in 'okay' stuff like Benny & Joon.


Also: CITIZEN KANE IS BORING-ASS BULLSHIT
(I don't really believe that, but someone's going to say it eventually.)

Lutz
09-13-2012, 05:40 AM
Exorcist The Heretic is ten times more entertaining than The Exorcist.

Lutz
09-13-2012, 05:42 AM
And topically Tony Scott's The Hunger is ten times more entertaining than Ridley Scott's Blade Runner.

owinn
09-13-2012, 07:10 AM
CITIZEN KANE IS BORING-ASS BULLSHIT[/SIZE]
(I don't really believe that, but someone's going to say it eventually.)

it's funny because we now need to reprogram ourselves to believe another film is the best movie ever, Hitchcock's Vertigo. Imagine that! Citizen Kane isn't the best movie ever made anymore! Opinions rule!

marodi
09-13-2012, 09:11 AM
Natural Born Killers is boring. No matter how I've tried, I can't watch the whole thing because I fall asleep during it. And I'm the biggest RDJ fangirl on the planet.

Swykk
09-13-2012, 09:37 AM
Citizen Kane does indeed suck. I hate being told by film snobs that I have to like something because "it's a classic."

I don't understand the love and acclaim for 2001 either. I dig Kubrick but this is a boring movie.

Also, in my opinion, Steven Spielberg has made three good movies (Raiders, Temple and Tintin). And the credit for The Adventures of Tintin being awesome goes to Jackson, Wright and Cornish. Before all of you even start:
Jaws is a shark movie without a shark for 90% of the time. Jurassic Park is a movie about dinosaurs...with hardly any dinosaurs. Schindler's List is okay but much like Saving Private Ryan, Spielberg is cloying. His Native American name is OscarBaitTriesTooHard.

If you need proof I'm not just a casual "I like it cuz shit blows up and there's tits" fan, here's my collection:

Swykk
09-13-2012, 09:54 AM
http://swykk.dvdaf.com

Leman Russ
09-13-2012, 11:29 AM
I think The Godfather & Scarface are the two most overrated movies in all of cinema history, and I can't stand either one of them.

Cat Mom
09-13-2012, 11:32 AM
Okay, maybe this isn't a very "controversial" opinion, but I think Leonardo Dicaprio is a TERRIBLE actor.

Ruined
09-13-2012, 11:35 AM
Corvus:

You noted that we had a "shitty movie" thread and my opinion did not necessarily fit in that category: As previously mentioned, I enjoyed PTA's earlier work and I have begun to dislike his later work. Not just one movie; hell, "The Master" has yet to be released. Nonetheless, what they've chosen to release as a representation of this "powerful" new film does nothing for me: Not only does Phoenix talk about "pussy," he also trashed a toilet, wow! Rather than troll a thread dedicated to "The Master," I felt it more appropriate to have a separate thread. Again, if you don't find such discussion interesting, simply ignore. No need to feel obligated to "play." The thread will be okay without you, should you choose not to "play." As for "There Will Be Blood," it was a story that could have been told in 1/2 hour: Did we really need to see a long, drawn-out introduction of a man's obsession with an oil well (representing absolute power) by showing him break his leg and drag himself out all while going as long as possible without any dialogue? There were countless examples where scenes went overboard, establishing certain characters: Okay, we get it, Dano's preacher is a religious ham. PTA is becoming increasingly guilty of dragging out scenes, using cheap film tricks for their own sake ("look what I can do!") and is in need of a good editor. All I see from such films are actor's workshop scnearios that, again, allow said actors to over-emote, endlessly.

As for Depp, he is hit and miss for me: His obsession with Hunter S. Thompson bores me. Wow, Depp, you met the guy and have a kinship. Great, go make two shitty movies about it. Another gripe: The first Pirates of the Caribbean was entertaining; everything after was simply a carbon copy. BTW, there should be a moratorium on another Depp/Burton collaboration.

Finally, yes, Citizen Cane is boring...It has a lot in common with PTA flicks.

Hazekiah
09-13-2012, 12:49 PM
I'm a fan of the entire franchise and hate the theme song as much as anyone, but Star Trek: Enterprise is the best TV series of the bunch, imho.

Ruined
09-13-2012, 02:06 PM
I'm a fan of the entire franchise and hate the theme song as much as anyone, but Star Trek: Enterprise is the best TV series of the bunch, imho. Heh, isn't that theme sung by Rod Stewart? Forgot about that...

Oliver Stone is another director who left his best work in the 80's. Man, why make a sequel to Wall Street? Further, "Savages" was such crap. Wow.

Also, as a genre, "Period Pieces/Merchant Ivory fims" bore the hell out of me. I don't think I've successfully made it through any of those.

I dislike pretty much everything David Lynch has done. From miniature old people, to "The Wizard of Oz" metaphors: Another guy who seems like he merely wants to be weird for its own sake.

Corvus T. Cosmonaut
09-13-2012, 07:00 PM
Phoenix talk(s) about "pussy"
Cool, a broad judgment based on a clip shorter than 90 seconds, which represents .01% of the movie's run time and was specifically selected to play to the rambunctious audiences at the Alamo Drafthouse which would particularly appreciate such a clip. And when we get into the fact that the clip in question is reportedly both longer and different in dialogue and editing from the version of that scene that made it into the movie, we underline and highlight and bold and italicize the problem with judging the movie based on such a short clip.

Now: we can look at this clip and see what the hell it's telling us. What we learn from the dispassionate disposition of the examiner, what we take away from Phoenix's vulgarity. Yep, he's saying 'Pussy' a lot. Why is he saying that? He's in some kind of psych exam, taking a Rorschach test or whatever. He doesn't seem into it, and his responses to the images are probably him trying to take the piss outta the whole thing. But of course that this is the way he decides to fuck around—seeing sexual imagery in everything and being so explicit about it—does in fact tell us about him, not just his attitude toward the test but what kind of person he may be that he responds this way. That's not a lot of information, nor is it even all that can be drawn from the short scene, but it's not bad for just 82 seconds.

Or we can write it off as PTA showboating, which says more about you than it does the movie.


As for "There Will Be Blood," it was a story that could have been told in 1/2 hour: Did we really need to see a long, drawn-out introduction of a man's obsession with an oil well (representing absolute power) by showing him break his leg and drag himself out all while going as long as possible without any dialogue?
Yeah, certainly. One good analysis of the movie shows it as a five-act film, rather than three, with the prologue and mansion coda as existing outside the three core acts while crucially buttressing their story and structure. The opening scene shows us a decidedly un-corrupt, at this point, isolated, hard-working man in his (literally) blue-collar beginning, introduces H.W., and creates a contrast with what follows. Without this sequence, we immediately enter into Daniel Plainview, cunning businessman, and it fundamentally changes the character and how the audience approaches him.


There were countless examples where scenes went overboard, establishing certain characters: Okay, we get it, Dano's preacher is a religious ham. PTA is becoming increasingly guilty of dragging out scenes
Again, it's character-building, showing us not only Eli as a Charismatic, but as charismatic, with his relationship to Little Boston's people, something we don't really experience elsewhere in the film but for the baptism scene, which would without the earlier bit would play quite differently. We'd not have the contrast in setting, from the dingy chapel to this bright new one, and at that point Eli's performance would come off as strange at a moment we're intersecting story/character threads and not trying draw them out anew.

So the scene ran too long for you? That's too bad. The whole performance is actually significant, and it's greatest weakness may be that Dano may have been trying to carry more than he could handle, as an actor, though I feel he did well enough. In fact, the sort of unconvincing performance there actually helps the scene and character by presenting him as a shyster, a detail not lost on Daniel watching from the door. Dano's not obviously 'over-emoting' if you have any experience with real tent preachers that work off essentially the same MO, today.


using cheap film tricks for their own sake ("look what I can do!") and is in need of a good editor.
Yeah? Examples?


I dislike pretty much everything David Lynch has done. From miniature old people, to "The Wizard of Oz" metaphors: Another guy who seems like he merely wants to be weird for its own sake.
He's not. He's, like, what you call an artist, and I'd direct your attention to two different but each very good (and long) write-ups on Lynch, among many:

David Foster Wallace, writing in orbit of the production of Lost Highway, discussing, primarily, that movie, plus and especially Blue Velvet and Twin Peaks, and what it means to be 'Lynchian': http://www.lynchnet.com/lh/lhpremiere.html

This is one of the unsettling things about a Lynch movie: You don't feel like you're entering into any of the standard unspoken and/or unconscious contracts you normally enter into with other kinds of movies. This is unsettling because in the absence of such an unconscious contract we lose some of the psychic protections we normally (and necessarily) bring to bear on a medium as powerful as film. That is, if we know on some level what a movie wants from us, we can erect certain internal defenses that let us choose how much of ourselves we give away to it. The absence of point or recognizable agenda in Lynch's films, though, strips these subliminal defenses and lets Lynch get inside your head in a way movies normally don't. This is why his best films' effects are often so emotional and nightmarish.

Film Crit Hulk types in all-caps. It's just a thing. I'd like to say you'll get over it, but your takes on film suggest to me that you have trouble getting past the surface of material and grasping the substance beneath. So: you may not be interested in this one (not that I expect you to read either). http://badassdigest.com/2012/03/04/film-crit-hulk-smash-hulk-vs-the-genius-of-mulholland-drive/

THERE IS A POPULAR CONCEPTION THAT DAVID LYNCH JUST THINKS UP WEIRD SHIT AND PUTS IT IN HIS MOVIES. THERE IS ALSO A (FAR WORSE) POPULAR CONCEPTION THAT PEOPLE WHO LIKE HIS MOVIES EMBRACE THIS RANDOM WEIRD SHIT AS SOME SORT OF PRETENTIOUS RUSE TO SEEM SMART... IF YOU THINK EITHER OF THESE THINGS THEN HULK HEARTILY ENCOURAGE YOU TO KEEP READING. HOPEFULLY YOU WILL GET A CHANCE TO SEE WHAT LYNCH IS ALL ABOUT.

THE FIRST PROBLEM IN PROVING THAT DAVID LYNCH ISN'T JUST DICKING US AROUND IS THE FACT THAT HE ACTUALLY PROPAGATES THIS "MY MOVIES ARE JUST WEIRD SHIT I THINK OF!" CONCEPTION HIMSELF. HE OFTEN TALKS ABOUT THE MOST STRANGE METHODS OF INSPIRATION AND EXTRAPOLATION. BUT THIS IS JUST BECAUSE HE NEVER, EVER WANTS TO DIVULGE HIS INTENTION. THIS SERVES THE VERY IMPORTANT PURPOSE OF LETTING HIS FILMS' INTERPRETATIONS "LIVE FOREVER" SO TO SPEAK. IT GREATLY ENCOURAGE DISCOURSE AND AFFECTATION. IT EVEN ALLOWS HULKS TO WRITE COLUMNS ABOUT IT! AND WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT, HE JUST WOULD NEVER DO SOMETHING SO REDUCTIVE AS TO SAY "THIS IS WHAT I ACTUALLY MEANT."

BUT THE TRUTH IS THAT DAVID LYNCH, FOR ALL HIS TANGIBLE WEIRDNESS, IS ACTUALLY A PRETTY SMART AND SELF-AWARE FELLOW. ONE WHO IS CLEARLY WELL-VERSED IN PSYCHOLOGY, SYMBOLOGY, DREAM INTERPRETATION AND CRAP LOAD OF SEMIOTICS. HOW DO WE KNOW THIS? WELL, FOR ONE, HE WENT TO PRESTIGIOUS PENN ACADEMY OF FINE ARTS IN PHILADELPHIA AND HULK PRETTY SURE THESE CONCEPTS MIGHT'VE COME UP A FEW TIMES.

BUT FAR MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE STUFF THAT ENDS UP ON SCREEN IS JUST TOO VIBRANT AND SYMBOLICALLY CONCRETE TO IGNORE. THERE IS A THROUGH-LINE OF LOGIC THAT PRESENTS ITSELF IN EARNEST. AND A MOST BASIC UNDERSTANDING OF COMMON LYNCH TROPES LENDS ITSELF ENDLESSLY TO INTERPRETATION... WHICH MEANS, NO, HIS FILMS ARE MOST DEFINITELY NOT A BUNCH OF WEIRD STUFF UP ON SCREEN.

Frozen Beach
09-13-2012, 07:30 PM
I dislike pretty much everything David Lynch has done. From miniature old people, to "The Wizard of Oz" metaphors: Another guy who seems like he merely wants to be weird for its own sake.
That's a pretty generic criticism. David Lynch pretty much makes moving paintings.

Magtig
09-13-2012, 07:39 PM
Being weird just to be weird is what your goth-industrial friends do when they attempt to make art. David Lynch being "weird" is David Lynch being himself. There's a difference: one is authentic. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's fake.

Ruined
09-13-2012, 08:21 PM
That's a pretty generic criticism. David Lynch pretty much makes moving paintings.

Eh, couldn't all movies be described as "moving painting?" Talk about "generic criticism."

Also, just because someone's personality is "weird," doesn't make it good or equate to genius. More often, than not, people often defense Lynch by simply stating, "you don't get it." So what if he has a weird personality? It doesn't mean his "vision" is good or even "deep." Too many times, critics try to put meaning into something that simply has no meaning: Sometimes an odd lady holding a log is simply an odd lady holding a log. Nothing beyond that...

Corvus T. Cosmonaut
09-13-2012, 08:36 PM
Sure, all movies are to some extent like "moving paintings". Filmmakers are artists that paint with light, cinema is called "motion picture", etc. Beach was pointing out that Lynch is a more explicitly expressionist director, more carefully composing his frames and packing them with visual information beyond the norm. He's a master of the mise en scène. (Of course he's also extremely involved with motion picture audio, so it's no surprise that he's been playing with sound as far back as his very first films, nor that in his current hiatus from the movies he's fashioned himself as a kind of recording artist.)

EDIT: Helpful commentary from David Bordwell, one of the best professors of film working today:

Each conception of film art harbors a good portion of truth. Each may fail to cover all of cinema, but for certain types of film, or particular movies, some are likely to be more helpful than others.

For example, it’s useful to consider David Lynch as making audiovisual works, in which blinking lights or grooves in pine planks seem uncannily synchronized with throbs and hums and Julee Cruise vibrato. Very often story and acting seem to precipitate out of an enveloping pictorial/auditory atmosphere. This isn’t to say that you couldn’t study narrative or performance in Lynch films; it’s just that taking up the audiovisual-mix perspective will throw certain aspects into sharper relief.

I recommend the whole piece: http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2007/04/20/but-what-kind-of-art/

Ruined
09-13-2012, 08:51 PM
Sure, all movies are to some extent like "moving paintings". Filmmakers are artists that paint with light, cinema is called "motion picture", etc. Beach was pointing out that Lynch is a more explicitly expressionist director, more carefully composing his frames and packing them with visual information beyond the norm. He's a master of the mise en scène. (Of course he's also extremely involved with motion picture audio, so it's no surprise that he's been playing with sound as far back as his very first films, nor that in his current hiatus from the movies he's fashioned himself as a kind of recording artist.)

What's interesting is that he has shown he can tell a straight ahead story (albeit both biographies) in "The Elephant Man" and "The Straight Story." Two simple stories in which his "personality" did not overshadow. I will concede that Lynch is talented and influential in his styling. I just dislike his movies, save for those two.

An example of Director(s) that I believe strike the fine balance between quirky/weird and story-telling prowess are the Coen Brothers. The quirks don't impede the story; but, instead, enhance in my opinion. A lot of the aesthetics of "No Country For Old Men" seemed simultaneously attempted by PTA in "There Will Be Blood." Both were basically westerns, musing upon the decay of society and/or a man's soul in which the scenery seemed to be as much of a character as the actors. In fact, I believe I read an anectdote wherein PTA and the Coen Brothers crossed paths while filming each respective film, using the same landscape. In my opinion, the Coens got it right and PTA got it wrong.

The Reason Being
09-13-2012, 09:07 PM
I love found footage movies. There are a few duds but for the most part they're really fun - Blair Witch, Rec, PA1, VHS, Cloverfield etc are all gold to me.

Lutz
09-13-2012, 09:10 PM
I think it's time to change the name of this thread to - Ignorant Childish Intolerant Cinema-Related-Opinions.

People should really judge a film based on how successfully it fullfills it's own premise.

Also calling out a deliberate feature of a movie isn't an opinion - it's a moot point.

Ruined
09-13-2012, 09:39 PM
I think it's time to change the name of this thread to - Ignorant Childish Intolerant Cinema-Related-Opinions.

People should really judge a film based on how successfully it fullfills it's own premise.

Also calling out a deliberate feature of a movie isn't an opinion - it's a moot point.


Wow, intolerant to contrary opinion, much? A discussion isn't childish merely because you disagree with the opinions expressed. Your post, on the other hand is the epitome of childish. If you don't want to participate, then simply ignore. Spewing your disgust in a thread in which you clearly disagree is a truly moot point. The opinions of others are no more or less valid than yours; deal with it.

Magtig
09-13-2012, 09:51 PM
Also, just because someone's personality is "weird," doesn't make it good or equate to genius.
Yes, but you implied it was disingenuous.


More often, than not, people often defense Lynch by simply stating, "you don't get it."
What are we some generalized mass to you? How about addressing the actual statements and people in this thread instead of whatever caricatures are in your head.


Too many times, critics try to put meaning into something that simply has no meaning: Sometimes an odd lady holding a log is simply an odd lady holding a log. Nothing beyond that...
Yeah, nothing beyond that except her late husband being a lumberjack who found the gateways to the white and black lodges in the woods where he was said to have "met the devil" and a deputy that said the wood in the forest was full of spirits.


Two simple stories in which his "personality" did not overshadow.
There you go again; why the fuck is personality in quotes? Your myopic assessment of legitimacy paints anything you don't like as fake or shallow.

Ruined
09-13-2012, 10:12 PM
Yes, but you implied it was disingenuous.


What are we some generalized mass to you? How about addressing the actual statements and people in this thread instead of whatever caricatures are in your head.


Yeah, nothing beyond that except her late husband being a lumberjack who found the gateways to the white and black lodges in the woods where he was said to have "met the devil" and a deputy that said the wood in the forest was full of spirits.


There you go again; why the fuck is personality in quotes? Your myopic assessment of legitimacy paints anything you don't like as fake or shallow.

You noted earlier that Lynch was "being himself," which is one's "personality" right? You used those words, not me. So, I wasn't being condescending or trying insult you. I merely was pointing out that particular point. I don't need to provide an extensive dissertation, going line-by-line, countering all of your points. I'm not looking to convince or be convinced. I'm merely stating my opinion and will defend it however I might. Hell, some people merely state that they liked "x" movie and that was it. There was no demand to make them defend their opinion. By the way, how do you know whether or not Lynch is "being himself?" Do you know him personally? How do you know when it's genuine and when it's contrived? You can't really know; therefore, all you can do is opine. That is what I did: His movies, IN MY OPINION, seem contrived and trying too hard to be weird for its own sake. If you disagree, fine; no skin off my back. However, when you start getting into a Director's actual mind and actual intent, you begin to go off the reservation. Your post made a definitive statement as if it were fact; how the hell do you know? At most, a more accurate statement would be "I believe" or "Maybe." But to make statements about Lynch's state of mind, as fact, is a baseless argument.

Magtig
09-13-2012, 10:19 PM
Do you breath through a straw when your head's buried so far up your ass? That's what my next movie is about. It's a 'boy in a bubble' story that will make you feel shitty, and it's definitely not colored with any annoying personality quirks.

Ruined
09-13-2012, 10:26 PM
Do you breath through a straw when your head's buried so far up your ass? That's what my next movie is about. It's a 'boy in a bubble' story that will make you feel shitty, and it's definitely not colored with any annoying personality quirks.

I love it when people make their arguments for me. Res ipsa loquitur.

Wretchedest
09-13-2012, 10:32 PM
You know, I find it odd that people are reacting the way they are. It's the controversial movie opinion thread, no the popular movie opinion thread. That said are you ready for this one?

I hate Indiana Jones movies. They are all trash.... the Last Crusade was alright. But I just find them boring. And, you know what? The fourth one isn't any different than the others. It's over the top kitsch just like the others. But at least Crystal Skull has a way of embracing it's kitschiness that the others don't. I never got what everyone hated so much about that one versus liked about the others.

James Bond: Way better.

Corvus T. Cosmonaut
09-13-2012, 10:39 PM
...how do you know whether or not Lynch is "being himself?" Do you know him personally? How do you know when it's genuine and when it's contrived?
Not to get into an epistemological debate about it, but that he's been pretty consistently himself back through Eraserhead and his earlier short works, that (as Hulk above mentioned) he maintains a sort of consistent through-line that shows even in the more 'conventional' projects, and that the people who've worked with him in any capacity corroborate his essential weirdness, provides a pretty good basis.


However, when you start getting into a Director's actual mind and actual intent, you begin to go off the reservation.
That you're couching it in terms of "it seems" doesn't change that this is exactly what you've been doing.

Ruined
09-13-2012, 10:42 PM
You know, I find it odd that people are reacting the way they are. It's the controversial movie opinion thread, no the popular movie opinion thread. That said are you ready for this one?

I hate Indiana Jones movies. They are all trash.... the Last Crusade was alright. But I just find them boring. And, you know what? The fourth one isn't any different than the others. It's over the top kitsch just like the others. But at least Crystal Skull has a way of embracing it's kitschiness that the others don't. I never got what everyone hated so much about that one versus liked about the others.

James Bond: Way better.

I enjoyed the original trilogy for mindless fun; nothing original, though. For me, Crystal Skull was going one too many times to the well. I hear they may make another one, unfortunately. By the way, when you mention "James Bond" do you mean all of the versions or do you have a particular actor that you favor, as Bond, over the others?

Corvus T. Cosmonaut
09-13-2012, 10:53 PM
I never got what everyone hated so much about that one versus liked about the others.
I think some people felt like it had defied some kind of inner consistency, and for a lot of people the aliens were a bridge too far. I don't know why people respond to aliens as being too far out while the supernatural religious stuff is fine (actually, I do know why, and it's silly), but that seems to be one of the dominant complaints. Aside from that, the jungle car action sequence was too blue-screened and ridiculous, even by Jones standards, and the blue-screen/CGI stuff throughout generally just gave it a sort of uneasy Vaseline quality that's hard to describe and even harder to swallow.


I enjoyed the original trilogy for mindless fun; nothing original, though.
Well, going back to them now they don't feel that way, but the Indiana Jones were pretty original and startling when they were released. The style was old, from the adventure serials of like the 1930s, but the way it was implemented and brought to screen was new. Between Spielberg with Jones and Jaws and Lucas with Star Wars the whole summer blockbuster thing and all the ramifications of that business model were created.

Wretchedest
09-13-2012, 11:25 PM
I enjoyed the original trilogy for mindless fun; nothing original, though. For me, Crystal Skull was going one too many times to the well. I hear they may make another one, unfortunately. By the way, when you mention "James Bond" do you mean all of the versions or do you have a particular actor that you favor, as Bond, over the others?

I recently started watching through the Bond movies again, and I guess I cave to the popular opinion that the connery ones are the best. But I grew up with Brosnan, and I'm enjoyed the Daniel Craig one's. BUT, and here's where this thread comes full circle, License to Kill is one of my favorites. Like top 3 or 4.

Ruined
09-13-2012, 11:36 PM
I recently started watching through the Bond movies again, and I guess I cave to the popular opinion that the connery ones are the best. But I grew up with Brosnan, and I'm enjoyed the Daniel Craig one's. BUT, and here's where this thread comes full circle, License to Kill is one of my favorites. Like top 3 or 4.

Dalton in you top 3-4? Definitely an interesting opinion. I actually favor the gritty Craig version, myself; even over Connery. I'm glad Skyfall is getting released, given the recent studio issues that occurred, almost derailing the franchise.

bobbie solo
09-13-2012, 11:54 PM
jesus christ please close this thread.

Cat Mom
09-14-2012, 12:28 AM
Ha, no way, Abominari (n/k/a Corvus) needs to TAKE OVER THIS THREAD, BITCHES!!

S. Chonson
09-14-2012, 01:18 AM
Batman Begins is the best Batman movie ever made.

ambergris
09-14-2012, 03:01 AM
Batman Begins is the best Batman movie ever made.

Batman Returns is the best Batman movie! Nolan can be as realistic and gritty as possible, he will never match the darkness of this movie.



I'm a fan of the entire franchise and hate the theme song as much as anyone, but Star Trek: Enterprise is the best TV series of the bunch, imho.

Wow, this certainly is controversial.



I dislike pretty much everything David Lynch has done. From miniature old people, to "The Wizard of Oz" metaphors: Another guy who seems like he merely wants to be weird for its own sake.

Lynch is never weird for its own sake! Not that this is a bad thing, I like Wes Anderson very much.


Also, A Clockwork Orange is a despicable movie and unnecessarily tacky... "Oh, he slays her with a penis statue, get it?....Get it?"

Vertigo
09-14-2012, 04:27 AM
Batman Returns is the best Batman movie! Nolan can be as realistic and gritty as possible, he will never match the darkness of this movie.

Personally, I really don't like Returns at all. Batman is a two-dimensional guest star in his own film, the portrayal of Penguin is just plain hard to watch (not necessarily condemning Danny DeVito's performance - it's the way he eats fish more than anything else...) yet dominates most of the movie, and it's three waterskied metres over a great white on the silliness scale. Generally speaking, in my opinion it's more of a Tim Burton film than a Batman one... that's not a terribly controversial viewpoint though from what I've heard.
One thing I'll laud that film for though is the portrayal of Catwoman, and the dynamic between her and Bruce. Pfeiffer is incredible (screw Nicholson, she gives the finest pre-Nolan series performance as far as I'm concerned), and there's a real tension and chemistry between the two.

What I love about Begins is that it's a film about Bruce Wayne, it's not dominated by the colourful rogues gallery. Batman's at its best when the focus is on the titular character in my opinion.


Anyway, on topic, I think Revenge Of The Sith is the best Star Wars movie. Serpentine plotting with massive pay-offs, some of the series' strongest emotional elements, and great lightsaber fights. Jaw-dropping opening sequence too, especially in the cinema. As much as Empire Strikes Back has going for it, like the rest of the original trilogy it's always felt rather slow and a bit of a chore. To me, at least...

And just to round out the controversy, in my opinion Brosnan's the best Bond, Tree Of Life's the best Malick film and highlight of 2011, and I thought Daredevil was fairly decent. Yeah, I said it.

aggroculture
09-14-2012, 09:40 AM
Ha, no way, Abominari (n/k/a Corvus) needs to TAKE OVER THIS THREAD, BITCHES!!

Ha! I was wondering where he'd got to.

hobochic
09-15-2012, 04:25 AM
Joseph Gordon-Levitt: I like the guy, decent actor, not my favorite by far, comes across as a little too easy going, hasn't quite washed off that annoying child actor aura during interviews (and looks like a kiss ass on sets); shows up in a little too many trailers lately and seems to play the same "decent guy" character in every fucking movie. Fuck him.

RocketScience
09-15-2012, 05:14 AM
Shyamalans's ill-recieved The Village is a fucking masterpiece and pure cinematic perfection. Escapism at its best.

Sutekh
09-15-2012, 05:47 AM
I think The Godfather & Scarface are the two most overrated movies in all of cinema history, and I can't stand either one of them.

I like the former but yes, Scarface, while not a bad movie, does seem like an overlong tv movie, the hype suggested to me that it was a classy beast ala godfather.

I like david lynch but Inland Empire was shit - he is either all the way insane or he is laughing at you. I loved listening to the musos in the bar afterwards insisting they loved it but being very careful to not elaborate as to exactly why. Fantastic performance from Laura Dern though.

Star wars is a tatty, silly film. 6/10 affair. Love the empire strikes back, but dismayed at how the first one usually polls higher. Also I love the indy movies, but temple of doom was dire.

Prometheus is as good as the original trilogy, and people who pick holes in it never apply the same degree of scrutiny to the old films (which are just as full of holes, if not more).

Daniel craig is the best bond, roger moore is good in everything else but was a shit bond and his films were mostly one long joke.

Kevin smith isnt amazing, but he's not as bad as it has become cool to insist he is

Kill bill was utter shit, inglorious was far better

The style was old, from the adventure serials of like the 1930s, but the way it was implemented and brought to screen was new.

All credit for saturday matinee as event movie goes to lucas, spielberg saw the potential of the format and approached him

But yep jaws and wars set the template which endures

Also i like the nolan movies, they are really great... But they just don't feel like batman. I don't really like the first burton movie, but batman returns remains most true to my ideal of what batman should feel like.
and i know the nolan films are far more complex, discussing very batmanny issues like fear & identity, power & society etc etc blah blah, but it just doesn't feel like and extension of the comics the way returns did.

It's a bit like the new doctor who, which is good on it's own, but has zero of the atmosphere or feel of the old show

Vertigo
09-15-2012, 05:47 AM
Shyamalans's ill-recieved The Village is a fucking masterpiece and pure cinematic perfection. Escapism at its best.

At the very least, that film is stunningly beautiful. Really need to pick it up on Blu-Ray.

tate the great
09-15-2012, 06:48 AM
Ah, what a great thread!

I DO NOT get any of the sudden love and attention Tom Hardy seems to get. If you watch any interview with him, you will realize that he comes of as your typical "rich kid gone bad" douchebag, who takes himself way too seriously and puts myspace-style crotchshots of himself on the internet. I mean, just read this paragraph from his biography: "He developed an alcohol abuse problem as a teenager, wound up expelled from one school, periodically spent nights in jail cells for disorderly conduct, and even found himself arrested and facing serious charges for stealing a car and gun possession - all while still a teenager. He avoided doing hard time, he later said, only because his co-conspirator was the son of a British diplomat."

That's not the kind of guy that I'm gonna find all awesome and sexy. And he isn't even a good actor either.

Conrad Lienert
09-15-2012, 06:55 AM
I loved The Village, because to me, the movie embodied a utopia within earth. But it still needed the fear of the unknown, to entrap them and medical science to save one of them. Much like most religions.

Maybe I've read too much into the themes, but it's all too beautiful of a coincidence.

Conrad Lienert
09-15-2012, 07:02 AM
Ah, what a great thread!

I DO NOT get any of the sudden love and attention Tom Hardy seems to get. If you watch any interview with him, you will realize that he comes of as your typical "rich kid gone bad" douchebag, who takes himself way too seriously and puts myspace-style crotchshots of himself on the internet. I mean, just read this paragraph from his biography: "He developed an alcohol abuse problem as a teenager, wound up expelled from one school, periodically spent nights in jail cells for disorderly conduct, and even found himself arrested and facing serious charges for stealing a car and gun possession - all while still a teenager. He avoided doing hard time, he later said, only because his co-conspirator was the son of a British diplomat."

That's not the kind of guy that I'm gonna find all awesome and sexy. And he isn't even a good actor either.

Either which way, he still has the discipline to take on different roles and carry them out well. I get what you're saying, but he has managed to "see the light" and become a very solid actor. You just need to look at his transition from "Inception" to "Warrior", to see that he does have some talent.

aggroculture
09-15-2012, 09:09 AM
Watch Bronson and tell me the guy isn't a good actor.

Fixer808
09-15-2012, 09:26 AM
Fucking rights, he slayed it in that one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njg82VExdw4

Highly Psychological
09-15-2012, 11:00 AM
Ah, what a great thread!

I DO NOT get any of the sudden love and attention Tom Hardy seems to get. And he isn't even a good actor either.

Im sorry but if you have seen his 2006 film Stuart -A Life Backwards with Benedict Cumberbatch in which he plays a psychotic homeless Heroin Addict, you will see he is an extraordinary actor. One of the best performances i have ever seen so realistic.
He is captivating in that Vulnerable, terrifying and likeable in equal measure. He was like a young Gary Oldman. I remember thinking this guy is going to be huge.

I dont like him in interviews that much either he seems all over the place, but on film i think he is better than Leo Dicaprio, Ryan Gosling or other Hollywood A List studs.
He can bring out a very real usually dark presence.
I hope he chooses his roles well. And does not get sucked into bad Hollywood films, he spent years doing some great British T.V films, when he could have been in Hollywood.

sentient02970
09-15-2012, 11:04 AM
V For Vendetta was a boring movie and not the "epic" everyone told me it was.
Tree Of Life is the most beautiful film I've ever seen.
Watchmen, while holding to many of the great images of the novel, was a terrible movie.
Wes Anderson is a genius.

Sutekh
09-15-2012, 11:34 AM
V for vendetta looked nice but I think it missed the point of the book, ie fascism is opportunistic and needs the exact right conditions and a suspension of plurality/democracy/choice to survive, whereas liberty/anarchy is something people gravitate towards whether times are good or bad, and in that sense it will always endure. Basically fascism needs to be handed power whereas freedom is like a force of nature. I can't really remember the film much, but didn't they make the BUF type party a bunch of bible bashers? And also it's inferred that global civilisation still exists. For me that dilutes the message a bit

hellospaceboy
09-15-2012, 11:07 PM
Jurassic Park is a movie about dinosaurs...with hardly any dinosaurs.

My ass! Jurassic Park is full of dinosaurs, and it has the great bonus that even when you're not looking at the prehistoric reptiles you are at least watching some pretty amazing actors. I mean, Jeff Goldblum, Sam Neill, Laura Dern, and even freaking Richard Attenborough! It doesn't get much better than this.

It's probably the best dinosaur movie ever made.

Sutekh
09-16-2012, 04:18 AM
Plus samuel l jackson, wayne knight, greg peck... It has a really great cast

I know everyone says this, but isn't it weird how the special effects look really real & kick the shit out of most depictions of dinosaurs that have emerged since then?

dlb
09-16-2012, 05:16 AM
One can not say this often enough to encourage people to combine real practical effects with CGI to get the best results! Look at Guilermo del Toro and how well this works for his movies!

I rewatched JP a few days ago though and I have to say that it HAS indeed aged. But only a bit and it still has the best looking and most believable dinosaurs in any movie to date. the lost world comes next and even that lousy JP3 has some of the best looking, but ultimately already too cgi-like animals in it.

Lutz
09-17-2012, 08:04 AM
Personally, I really don't like Returns at all. Batman is a two-dimensional guest star in his own film, the portrayal of Penguin is just plain hard to watch (not necessarily condemning Danny DeVito's performance - it's the way he eats fish more than anything else...) yet dominates most of the movie, and it's three waterskied metres over a great white on the silliness scale. Generally speaking, in my opinion it's more of a Tim Burton film than a Batman one... that's not a terribly controversial viewpoint though from what I've heard.
One thing I'll laud that film for though is the portrayal of Catwoman, and the dynamic between her and Bruce. Pfeiffer is incredible (screw Nicholson, she gives the finest pre-Nolan series performance as far as I'm concerned), and there's a real tension and chemistry between the two.

A lot of people would argue that Returns is more about the Batman character as the two villains act as cyphers for him.

With Penguin being the alternative outcome to the rich orphan and Catwoman being the alternate outcome to the masked vigilante. They act in exploring where Bruce Wayne draws the line in becoming Batman and where he could and can go wrong.

Also using the "it's more of a Tim Burton film than a Batman one" as any kind of argument against those movies seems to me outrageously ridiculous when you consider Nolan made Batman films so much Nolan films that he couldn't include the range of Batman's exceptionally strong rogues gallery.

Leman Russ
09-17-2012, 08:24 AM
My ass! Jurassic Park is full of dinosaurs, and it has the great bonus that even when you're not looking at the prehistoric reptiles you are at least watching some pretty amazing actors. I mean, Jeff Goldblum, Sam Neill, Laura Dern, and even freaking Richard Attenborough! It doesn't get much better than this.

It's probably the best dinosaur movie ever made.

Jurassic Park kicks serious ass. All of the dinosaurs have held up remarkably well...the T-Rex still leaves me in awe. However, the sequels have not held up as well for me. The dinos still look good, but I just don't get into the story as much as I used to. I was never a big fan of JP3, and like it less every time I happen to see it on tv.

hellospaceboy
09-17-2012, 08:44 AM
^^^
A always hated JP2: The Lost World, simply because the story didn't live up to the high standards the first one set. It looked great, had some nice set pieces and was also loaded with a good cast, but it just didn't click.

Leman Russ
09-17-2012, 09:49 AM
^^^
A always hated JP2: The Lost World, simply because the story didn't live up to the high standards the first one set. It looked great, had some nice set pieces and was also loaded with a good cast, but it just didn't click.

That's how I feel when I watch it now. It wants to be good, it looks great (still) but just doesn't quite make it.

frankie teardrop
09-17-2012, 10:01 AM
and while i love the first film, it doesn't compare to the violence and grit of the novel. i remember hearing in another thread (maybe the old board) that they may reboot the series and make it more true to the book, so here's hoping...

koz-ivan
09-17-2012, 10:42 AM
Natural Born Killers is boring. No matter how I've tried, I can't watch the whole thing because I fall asleep during it. And I'm the biggest RDJ fangirl on the planet.

maybe something is lost in the transition from theater to small screen, or possibly the director's cut, but natural born killers was many things, but i'd never say it was boring. if anything it was complete sensory overload.


My ass! Jurassic Park is full of dinosaurs, and it has the great bonus that even when you're not looking at the prehistoric reptiles you are at least watching some pretty amazing actors. I mean, Jeff Goldblum, Sam Neill, Laura Dern, and even freaking Richard Attenborough! It doesn't get much better than this.

It's probably the best dinosaur movie ever made.

jurassic park was a really good movie, classic payoff of the dino's at the end and an admittedly slow buildup throughout the film. as mentioned great cast as well.

i remember reading something about the film the dino's were really expensive to produce and the effects budget dictated less dinosaurs, however i think that really works in the film.

Sutekh
09-18-2012, 04:41 AM
^^^
A always hated JP2: The Lost World, simply because the story didn't live up to the high standards the first one set. It looked great, had some nice set pieces and was also loaded with a good cast, but it just didn't click.

The sequels are crap... I find it amazing that the second one is a Spielberg.

However the book which the lost world is based on is great, really scary and gory. There's a spooky bit where a bloke goes out for a cigarette at night, and notices a bunch of theropods with chameleonic skin watching him from a distance, so he goes back inside, and can hear them slowly creeping towards the building... Brr

wizfan
09-18-2012, 07:54 AM
I fucking hate Sweeney Todd. I fucking love A Good Old Fashioned Orgy. I have such bad taste.

Lutz
09-18-2012, 10:43 PM
I have such bad taste.

I love that scene in BAD where the single mother complains about baby killers staying in the house and Carroll Baker turns on her and says "Those girls only do what they are paid to do and you don't have enough money to pay them to kill your baby".

Carroll Baker is the best. I need to watch BABY DOLL again.

Deadpool
09-18-2012, 11:09 PM
and while i love the first film, it doesn't compare to the violence and grit of the novel.


I love the first film, too. Though I've never read the book, it's very interesting to hear you mention the violence of the novel because of this recent story: Jimmy Cameron was apparently going to go for that gritty, "much nastier" tone (http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/09/13/the-jurassic-park-movie-james-cameron-almost-made?utm_campaign=ign+main+twitter&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social). I find that to be a fascinating bit of trivia, and it makes me want to dig into some Chrichton. I hope it's not controversial to love James Cameron, because I do.

Leman Russ
09-19-2012, 08:05 AM
I hope it's not controversial to love James Cameron, because I do.

Probably not if you're taking Terminator through True Lies James Cameron. Probably so if you're talking about Titanic and Dances With Wolves In Space James Cameron.

carpenoctem
09-19-2012, 09:13 AM
Probably not if you're taking Terminator through True Lies James Cameron. Probably so if you're talking about Titanic and Dances With Wolves In Space James Cameron.

Well, say what you will about his bland, overly general, catch-all writing style, but the guy puts 110% into the creation of his movies. Every one of them is an unashamed Big Event Film, he's never trying to make just a movie but more like capture a certain spirit of grandiosity. And he was the first one, and still really the only one, to make a viable argument for 3D.

Titanic is my #1 film of all time. Probably always will be. I like that the writing and characterization are broadly painted, not filled with too many nuances - there's no time. A grand love story has to be built up and fully told in 3 days and by God he's going to tell it! The set pieces are incredible too, and he makes the most of showcasing them and then destroying them. He captures the cultural obsession we have with this particular tragedy, humanizes it and makes it work. It's not a deep thinker movie, it's all heart. And the level of detail is insane.

Leman Russ
09-19-2012, 09:36 AM
Oh I'm not saying that he doesn't produce visually stunning films. He does. Both Titanic and Avatar were visual feasts, and Cameron has made the best use of 3D I've ever seen. But the movies themselves were just that: visually great and subpar everywhere else. My favorite part of Titanic? When the guy falls off and bounces off the propeller. I laughed my ass off in the theater when that happened, while everyone else was crying because of 'the love story'. And I will be the first to admit, I couldn't sit through Avatar. I still don't think I've made it through more than 15 minutes of it.

Vertigo
09-19-2012, 09:42 AM
Leman Russ, I hate to break it to you but you may very well be a cynic. It's probably a consequence of living so close to the Eye of Terror.

Leman Russ
09-19-2012, 10:01 AM
Leman Russ, I hate to break it to you but you may very well be a cynic. It's probably a consequence of living so close to the Eye of Terror.

You win, sir, you win.

Sutekh
09-19-2012, 10:01 AM
I think it's pretty controversial to say Titanic isn't the shit film critics insist it is. It's not great but it's not awful.

but technically, it's a beast. The sheer scale of endeavour is mind boggling. Speaking as a lifelong titanic nerd, I can tell you I had an apocalyptic bonk-on throughout the film

Elke
09-19-2012, 12:05 PM
Titanic is a fun film. Whatever it lacks in substance, it makes up in abundance in style, silliness and breathless romance which is basically a lot to get out of a night at the movies.
I'm pretty fed up with people reducing quality cinema to cinematic art. Not every novel is War and Peace, some of it is Pride & Prejudice or The Decamerone.

Maybe that's a controversial opinion to have, but I'm willing to trade every single Bergman, Von Trier and Almodovar movie for one The Lord of the Rings or one Finding Nemo. Telling a simple but compelling story in such a way that people who normally like their entertainment in bitesized pieces are willing to sit down for hours on end to see it, isn't necessarily low brow either.

Corvus T. Cosmonaut
09-20-2012, 01:24 AM
And he was the first one, and still really the only one, to make a viable argument for 3D.
Bullshit. This is repeated about Avatar ad nauseam. This is repeated so often that it's become like this common, accepted knee-jerk sort of response to the issue of 3-D, and fuck that right to hell: there's nothing in Avatar in 3-D that isn't there and just as visually awesome or whatever without that gimmick. In fact, the action sequences toward the end sort of emphasize one of the big current shortcomings of the technology, that rapid action becomes very muddled and garbagey. Cameron's utilization could be called adequate at best, but what we're then doing is promoting a mediocre example of a generally worthless and over-sold piece of studio marketing.

No, nothing out of Hollywood has yet made a good case for 3-D.



I think it's pretty controversial to say Titanic isn't the shit film critics insist it is.
What critics?
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/titanic/
http://www.metacritic.com/movie/titanic

Sutekh
09-20-2012, 04:44 AM
Trust me, it was not a universally adored film, I find it odd you find that hard to believe!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanic_(1997_film)#Critical_reception 4th paragraph

I seem to remember Mark Kermode slagging it off

Cat Mom
09-20-2012, 04:58 AM
But your above citation says:


Critical reception

Titanic garnered mostly positive reviews from film critics. Review aggregate website Rotten Tomatoes reports the film as holding an overall 87% "Certified Fresh" approval rating based on 163 reviews, with a rating average of 7.7 out of 10. The site's general consensus is that the film is "[a] mostly unqualified triumph for Cameron, who offers a dizzying blend of spectacular visuals and old-fashioned melodrama".[82] At Metacritic, which assigns a weighted mean rating out of 0–100 reviews from film critics, the film has a rating score of 74 based on 34 reviews, classified as a generally favorably reviewed film.[94]

With regard to the film's overall design, Roger Ebert stated, "It is flawlessly crafted, intelligently constructed, strongly acted, and spellbinding... Movies like this are not merely difficult to make at all, but almost impossible to make well." He credited the "technical difficulties" with being "so daunting that it's a wonder when the filmmakers are also able to bring the drama and history into proportion" and "found [himself] convinced by both the story and the sad saga".[95] He named it as his ninth best film of 1997.[96] On the television program Siskel & Ebert, the film received "two thumbs up" and was praised for its accuracy in recreating the ship's sinking; Ebert described the film as "a glorious Hollywood epic, well-crafted and well worth the wait" and Gene Siskel found Leonardo DiCaprio "captivating".[97]James Berardinelli stated, "Meticulous in detail, yet vast in scope and intent, Titanic is the kind of epic motion picture event that has become a rarity. You don't just watch Titanic, you experience it."[98] It was named his second best film of 1997.[99] Almar Haflidason of the BBC wrote that "[t]he sinking of the great ship is no secret, yet for many exceeded expectations in sheer scale and tragedy" and that "when you consider that [the film] tops a bum-numbing three-hour running time, then you have a truly impressive feat of entertainment achieved by Cameron".[100] Joseph McBride of Boxoffice Magazine concluded, "To describe Titanic as the greatest disaster movie ever made is to sell it short. James Cameron's recreation of the 1912 sinking of the 'unsinkable' liner is one of the most magnificent pieces of serious popular entertainment ever to emanate from Hollywood."[101]

The romantic and emotionally-charged aspects of the film were equally praised. Andrew L. Urban of Urban Cinefile said, "You will walk out of Titanic not talking about budget or running time, but of its enormous emotive power, big as the engines of the ship itself, determined as its giant propellers to gouge into your heart, and as lasting as the love story that propels it."[102]Owen Gleiberman of Entertainment Weekly described the film as, "A lush and terrifying spectacle of romantic doom. Writer-director James Cameron has restaged the defining catastrophe of the early 20th century on a human scale of such purified yearning and dread that he touches the deepest levels of popular moviemaking."[101]Janet Maslin of The New York Times commented that "Cameron's magnificent Titanic is the first spectacle in decades that honestly invites comparison to Gone With the Wind."[101]Richard Corliss of Time magazine, on the other hand, wrote a mostly negative review, criticizing the lack of interesting emotional elements.[103]

Some reviewers felt that the story and dialogue were weak, while the visuals were spectacular. Kenneth Turan's review in the Los Angeles Times was particularly scathing. Dismissing the emotive elements, he stated, "What really brings on the tears is Cameron's insistence that writing this kind of movie is within his abilities. Not only is it not, it is not even close.",[104] and later claimed that the only reason that the film won Oscars was because of its box office total.[105] Barbara Shulgasser of The San Francisco Examiner gave Titanic one star out of four, citing a friend as saying, "The number of times in this unbelievably badly-written script that the two [lead characters] refer to each other by name was an indication of just how dramatically the script lacked anything more interesting for the actors to say."[106] Also, filmmaker Robert Altman called it "the most dreadful piece of work I've ever seen in my entire life".[107] In his 2012 study of the lives of the passengers on the Titanic, historian Richard Davenport-Hines says "Cameron's film diabolized rich Americans and educated English, anathematizing their emotional restraint, good tailoring, punctilious manners and grammatical training, while it made romantic heroes of the poor Irish and the unlettered".[108]

Leman Russ
09-20-2012, 07:34 AM
I think it was Steve Harvey who said, in his critique of Titanic, "Three hours about a damn ship. We all know what happens, bring on the water!". That pretty much sums it up

hellospaceboy
09-20-2012, 09:43 AM
I think it was Steve Harvey who said, in his critique of Titanic, "Three hours about a damn ship. We all know what happens, bring on the water!". That pretty much sums it up

I'm not a huge fan of Titanic, but still, I heard this argument -"we know how it ends!"- many times and I don't buy it. I can enjoy a WWII movie even if I know who wins, or a biopic (Buddy Holly dies at the end! So does Jim Morrison!) even when I'm fairly familiar with the events being covered. And then let's talk about movies that are based on well known fiction, like Lord of the Rings, I already KNEW how the third movie would end during the opening credits of the first one, and I still managed to enjoy the hell out of all three!

Titanic wasn't about the sinking ship but a young couple who fall in love and a tragedy that ends their romance.

Sutekh
09-20-2012, 09:48 AM
But your above citation says:


The chap above said "what critics", within that citation are some critics who didn't like it. It wasn't universally adored & outside of popular reviews (specifically, within chinstroker circles), it doesn't get much respect

Leman Russ
09-20-2012, 10:10 AM
I'm not a huge fan of Titanic, but still, I heard this argument -"we know how it ends!"- many times and I don't buy it. I can enjoy a WWII movie even if I know who wins, or a biopic (Buddy Holly dies at the end! So does Jim Morrison!) even when I'm fairly familiar with the events being covered. And then let's talk about movies that are based on well known fiction, like Lord of the Rings, I already KNEW how the third movie would end during the opening credits of the first one, and I still managed to enjoy the hell out of all three!

Titanic wasn't about the sinking ship but a young couple who fall in love and a tragedy that ends their romance.

I know that, I just find the quote funny. There are many movies that I know the ending of, yet enjoy immensely. Knowing the boat was going to sink didn't make me like the movie less, it was pretty much everything else. And omg how awful was it hearing Celine Dion's song EVERYWHERE when it came out?

Magtig
09-20-2012, 10:43 AM
You fuckin people are crazy, Titanic blew unwashed mountain goats. So did the Abyss, and almost everything else Cameron's created.

But don't mind me, my satisfaction is kind of unobtainium.

carpenoctem
09-20-2012, 07:55 PM
Bullshit. This is repeated about Avatar ad nauseam. This is repeated so often that it's become like this common, accepted knee-jerk sort of response to the issue of 3-D, and fuck that right to hell: there's nothing in Avatar in 3-D that isn't there and just as visually awesome or whatever without that gimmick. In fact, the action sequences toward the end sort of emphasize one of the big current shortcomings of the technology, that rapid action becomes very muddled and garbagey. Cameron's utilization could be called adequate at best, but what we're then doing is promoting a mediocre example of a generally worthless and over-sold piece of studio marketing.

Personally, I enjoyed it. I'm not parroting what I've heard from others. It was the only movie in 3D I've seen that hasn't given me a constant headache and that made me feel, by the end of the movie, "Why aren't more people doing it like this?" It seemed so natural and made the world of Pandora really come alive. I've watched it on DVD since, in 2D, and felt the film really lacking in the wonder that I felt when watching it in theaters.

Elke
09-21-2012, 12:06 AM
^ Really? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BFI_Top_100_British_films)And that's just one rather shambolic list.

Corvus T. Cosmonaut
09-21-2012, 02:46 AM
Just reading that BFI lineup is making me want to re-watch the Powell & Pressburger films. It'd be interesting to see what would make the cut were that list updated to 2012.


I've watched it on DVD since, in 2D, and felt the film really lacking in the wonder that I felt when watching it in theaters.
Cool, next try watching it in 3-D on DVD and in 2-D on the big movie theater screen and then tell me how you feel about it. I watched the original Straw Dogs on DVD a few times but seeing it in the theater was a new, different experience.

marodi
07-27-2013, 10:35 AM
Keanu Reeves is a very decent actor. And Godzilla (1998) is not as bad as everyone thinks.

Wolfkiller
07-27-2013, 01:37 PM
Keanu Reeves is a very decent actor. And Godzilla (1998) is not as bad as everyone thinks.

Ditto to the Keanu opinion.
Fuck Eraserhead. Couldn't bother going further than 20 minutes in.
Also, seeing The Big Lebowski very late... didn't live up to the hype at all. Dumb movie.
Looking back...fuck Terminator 2. Special effects were AWESOME and still are, T-1000 was bad ass, but the actual Terminator? Turned into a little PG bitch who spouts cheesy nonsense. Boo I say to that.

Highly Psychological
07-27-2013, 02:15 PM
Legend by Ridley Scott is better than Gladiator.

thefragile_jake
07-27-2013, 02:25 PM
The Boondock Saints is overrated.

The Dark Knight Rises shouldn't have been what it was.

xmd 5a
07-29-2013, 04:09 AM
TV opinions count? Because Game of Thrones does nothing for me. My wife is a massive fan of the novels and show, but neither really interest me.

Sutekh
07-29-2013, 06:26 AM
Taxi Driver didn't blow me away. I liked it, but I got the impression I was supposed to fall to my knees and start weeping at how good it was. 7/10.

the dark knight... I liked it, but I do honestly believe a kind of hysteria surrounds the film, whoch will eventually die down. I really think that in the future, aggregated reviews of the film will come in around 70%. It's just too busy - I'm not criticising it for having some depth, rather I take issue with trying to cram so much into a couple of hours - it starts to feel hurried. The scenes clipped and trimmed to micro length so the film doesn't end up too long for a blockbuster. I'm sure some will feel this instills some kind of dynamism, but to me it feels like a big rush - observe the more lesiurely pacing and reflective tone of the first.tdk feels like a 90s mtv video, it gives me a headache

TBH i think the ideal situation would have been a 3+ hour batman begins, with joker instead of scarecrow. Love the comics but still never been that taken with any onscreen adaptations.

omen 2 > omen 1

Millionaire
08-02-2013, 05:17 AM
Legend by Ridley Scott is better than Gladiator.
I think Kingdom of Heaven(Director's Cut) is better than both.

Vertigo
08-02-2013, 07:56 AM
I think Kingdom of Heaven(Director's Cut) is better than both.

I'd certainly put it on a par with Gladiator. Been too long since I've seen KoH's theatrical cut to comment on the differences, but the director's cut is one epic piece of cinema.

Millionaire
08-05-2013, 10:40 PM
I'd certainly put it on a par with Gladiator. Been too long since I've seen KoH's theatrical cut to comment on the differences, but the director's cut is one epic piece of cinema.
The theatrical version left out 45 minutes of substantial character and plot stuff so they could have more theater showings per day to make more money. That backfired on them badly since it was a far weaker movie and it bombed. It should have been released in the fall or winter as sort of a 'prestige' film, but the studio thought it was a summer blockbuster. I think this was one of the most substantial director's cuts in history in terms of how much better it made the film than the theatrical version.

Back on topic, I think Event Horizon is pretty good.

marodi
08-05-2013, 11:34 PM
Back on topic, I think Event Horizon is pretty good.

Event Horizon is a goddamn masterpiece.

Alexandros
08-06-2013, 02:07 AM
I don't see why Citizen Kane gets such immense praise and is constantly touted as the best movie of all time. It's good, but it's not that good. I even find it bloated and overbearing at times.

Fixer808
08-06-2013, 02:16 AM
Event Horizon is a goddamn masterpiece.
It's a seriously underrated piece of sci fi horror, for sure.

And Alexandros, I've never seen it, but I have seen The Third Man, a great noir film that Welles was in. Fantastic movie!

Millionaire
08-06-2013, 03:08 AM
The director of Event Horizon said there was a much harder version of it that got NC-17. It was cut down to get an R. He looked for the extra footage to put on a dvd and apparently it was lost. What I wouldn't give for that director's cut.

Fixer808
08-06-2013, 03:21 AM
Seriously, that shit blew my mind as a 16yr old as it was. I'd love to see the cutting room floor shit...

dlb
08-06-2013, 05:36 AM
Afaik these are the only few scenes left that did not went missing. Gives you an idea how over the top brutal that movie could have been:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK1debnXYlA

thevoid99
08-06-2013, 01:53 PM
Event Horizon is absolutely underrated. Paul W.S. Anderson has his moments as a filmmaker and I kinda liked his version of The Three Musketeers. It was extremely ridiculous yet I couldn't help but enjoy myself no matter how bad some of the acting was.

S. Chonson
08-07-2013, 12:35 PM
Animal House isn't funny. At all.

Millionaire
08-15-2013, 05:59 AM
I just watched the 2011 Conan and I think it wasn't that bad. Not saying its great or anything; it should've had a director and cinematographer with more talent, but there are some good things there. Khal Drogo was pretty damn good as Conan, the costumes and set design looked great, and the sword fights had brutality and style.

Jinsai
08-15-2013, 01:41 PM
They should have given Conan to Neil Marshal (director of The Descent). Apparently he really wanted to do it

Swykk
08-15-2013, 03:04 PM
I don't know if Animal House isn't funny but Revenge Of The Nerds is the much superior movie.

Reznor2112
08-17-2013, 08:13 PM
I like Michael Bay movies...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llcuj3vt5n1qagjn7o1_500.gif

S. Chonson
08-18-2013, 01:53 AM
I don't know if Animal House isn't funny but Revenge Of The Nerds is the much superior movie.

Fuck to the yes.

Baphomette
08-18-2013, 02:36 AM
I love Freddy Got Fingered.

artdeco
08-18-2013, 06:34 AM
I love Freddy Got Fingered.

Oh Christ Almighty me too. The scene in the restaurant where he's making a business call to impress the girl makes me barf with laughter. Also, I like Poison Ivy 2 with Alyssa Milano. I've seen it more than any human has on earth. I still don't know why I like it. Other than her boobies.

tommygunn
08-18-2013, 11:51 AM
Revenge of the Nerds is awesome, shame the sequels weren't as good.

I've been ruined by bluray / HD. I went back to watch The Abyss on DVD last week and it looked like a pixelated turd. Can't wait for the bluray release of what I would argue is James Cameron's last good scifi film (Terminator 2 excluded of course).

tony.parente
08-20-2013, 11:34 AM
All the monty python movies/tv shows/whatever are complete garbage.

3:15
08-21-2013, 07:00 PM
Gladiator is a God-awful film.

thevoid99
08-21-2013, 10:23 PM
Gladiator is a God-awful film.

You know something. I kinda agree to that. I think it's very overrated.

theyellowdart
08-21-2013, 11:53 PM
Comic book movies are ruining American film culture.

Space Suicide
08-22-2013, 12:46 AM
I don't see why Citizen Kane gets such immense praise and is constantly touted as the best movie of all time. It's good, but it's not that good. I even find it bloated and overbearing at times.

It's because of how old it is. The fact it was filmed in 1941 and one of the first "Blockbuster" films to be widely received. I feel the same way about Casablanca. It's a good movie with a solid plot, strong characterization and was released early on during WWII but it's really not all that fucking all mighty untouchable as everyone claims.

I know it's an unfair label but these older films get the praise they do because they're the first of their caliber.

However, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington and The Grapes of Wrath deserve all the praise they get. Those movies are excellent.

Iran_Ed
08-22-2013, 07:56 AM
I try to stay out of threads like this, but I have to get this out. I've never understood the love for District 9. I love the premise of the film, I love the social commentary it tries to perform. I just think its execution is flawed. I usually give points for effort, but that film and its buffoonish main character just rubbed me the wrong way.

Fixer808
08-22-2013, 08:27 AM
All the monty python movies/tv shows/whatever are complete garbage.
Motherfucking fighting words.

tony.parente
08-22-2013, 09:04 AM
Motherfucking fighting words.


http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/come_at_me_bro.gif

Fixer808
08-22-2013, 09:19 AM
Kings of the non-sequitur, shit's hilarious. You're just... so wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBaUmx5s6iE

Alexandros
08-22-2013, 11:42 AM
It's because of how old it is. The fact it was filmed in 1941 and one of the first "Blockbuster" films to be widely received. I feel the same way about Casablanca. It's a good movie with a solid plot, strong characterization and was released early on during WWII but it's really not all that fucking all mighty untouchable as everyone claims.

I guess my main gripe is absolute characterisations like "best film of all time" in general. I can understand "one of the best/most notable films of its time", but more than this is meaningless. Especially when you compare films that are several decades apart, the differences in cinematic eras/philosophies/aesthetics muddle the waters significantly, except for a few films here and there that were ahead of their time.

ad infinitum
08-22-2013, 12:37 PM
I don't understand all the love for Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. It falls completely flat for me every time I try to watch it, which is frustrating because I like the movie's premise & generally like Kaufman's other stuff. But this one just comes off as irritating & pretentious to me.

Millionaire
03-26-2014, 01:49 AM
I think Waterworld is pretty good. Its not super great, but its got some fun sequences, and I appreciate the minimal use of CG(Is there any CG?). I mean, they actual built that huge floating town-thing, and did that explosion on the tanker.

RhettButler
03-26-2014, 07:22 AM
I think Waterworld is pretty good. Its not super great, but its got some fun sequences, and I appreciate the minimal use of CG(Is there any CG?). I mean, they actual built that huge floating town-thing, and did that explosion on the tanker.
I haven't seen that since '95, but I remember enjoying it.

I felt that Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was a good movie--about as good as the other Indiana Jones movies.

RhettButler
03-26-2014, 07:29 AM
I recently started watching through the Bond movies again, and I guess I cave to the popular opinion that the connery ones are the best. But I grew up with Brosnan, and I'm enjoyed the Daniel Craig one's. BUT, and here's where this thread comes full circle, License to Kill is one of my favorites. Like top 3 or 4.

I know this post is old, but I agree 100 percent. Dalton was a great 007. I saw The Living Daylights twice, recently, and it's only gotten better over the year, IMHO. License to Kill was also a great Bond. I liked the Brosnan-era and Pierce should be credited for bringing the franchise back from the dead, but Dalton's two movies are arguably better.

ETA--Of all the actors to play James Bond, Dalton was the closest to Fleming's literary creation. He took the role very seriously, reading the books on set for guidance, etc. When people say that they don't like Dalton because he was "humorless, too serious, not like Connery/Moore," etc. they are overlooking the fact that's what the original James Bond, the one created by Fleming, was like.

elevenism
06-04-2014, 12:15 PM
Somewhere, I'm not sure where exactly—some may put it around the time of the first Pirates, but I think it probably stretches back to Fear & Loathing—somewhere Depp decided that he'd given up on reaching for the deeper, more interesting roles he played in the past, and focused instead on caricatures, becoming a kind of critically-lauded version of Jim Carrey, doing the rubber-faced thing and playing dress-up.
Jesus Christ. I knew you were sick but I never expected to hear you actually say that kind of stuff, you filthy bastard.
That's... argh! Argh! That's argh! Argh! That's argh!

elevenism
06-15-2014, 01:53 AM
Okay, maybe this isn't a very "controversial" opinion, but I think Leonardo Dicaprio is a TERRIBLE actor.

i know you posted this a LONG goddam time ago, but i was thinking about it for some reason.
I feel that i watched Leo go from being a GREAT, promising actor to just a pretty face.
I think the turning point was titanic...i LOVE that movie but it has nothing to do with the acting. It's all about the Boat.

But have you seen The Basketball Diaries? Or Gilbert Grape? Or even This Boy's Life?

I thought he was AMAZING in those films...in fact, he was probably my favorite actor in those days (granted i was 13-15 or so.)

So he IS a shitty actor, but he WAS a great actor, in my humble opinion.

tony.parente
06-15-2014, 04:08 AM
I don't understand all the love for Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. It falls completely flat for me every time I try to watch it, which is frustrating because I like the movie's premise & generally like Kaufman's other stuff. But this one just comes off as irritating & pretentious to me.

It's my favorite movie :)

elevenism
06-15-2014, 07:54 AM
It's my favorite movie :)

it's cunt ramming awesome

Deepvoid
06-16-2014, 12:32 PM
Being a film buff, I get weird looks when I say that Inglourious Basterds was such an average movie. Gave it a 6/10 (compared to 8.3 average on IMDB)
Didn't do anything for me.

WorzelG
06-16-2014, 02:14 PM
Being a film buff, I get weird looks when I say that Inglourious Basterds was such an average movie. Gave it a 6/10 (compared to 8.3 average on IMDB)
Didn't do anything for me.
I watched it on tv but didn't get past the opening sequence. Yes I know what's going to happen so get fucking on with it!

Which leads me on to another controversial opinion, thinking Tarantino is overrated. I find his characters annoying, one of the worse offences being Bill at the end of Kill Bill vol 2 and his rambling speech about Batman. Yes I'm sure a fucking gangster lynch pin was really into comic books just because Tarantino is a complete dweeb who spent too much time watching films as a video shop employee. He just seems to project far too much of himself into his characters. For the record I did like Reservoir Dogs and thought the dialogue in that was quite snappy, but he was so idolised he ended up thinking he could do anything and people would lap it up

Deepvoid
06-16-2014, 02:31 PM
I watched it on tv but didn't get past the opening sequence. Yes I know what's going to happen so get fucking on with it!

Which leads me on to another controversial opinion, thinking Tarantino is overrated. I find his characters annoying, one of the worse offences being Bill at the end of Kill Bill vol 2 and his rambling speech about Batman. Yes I'm sure a fucking gangster lynch pin was really into comic books just because Tarantino is a complete dweeb who spent too much time watching films as a video shop employee. He just seems to project far too much of himself into his characters. For the record I did like Reservoir Dogs and thought the dialogue in that was quite snappy, but he was so idolised he ended up thinking he could do anything and people would lap it up

I loved Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction. Kill Bill was fun to watch but short of being amazing. He's different, I'll give him that.
On the fence whether he's overrated or not. I'll have to watch Django Unchained first.

elevenism
07-14-2014, 05:02 AM
I loved Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction. Kill Bill was fun to watch but short of being amazing. He's different, I'll give him that.
On the fence whether he's overrated or not. I'll have to watch Django Unchained first.

Tarantino might be overrated, but i can say this about him: he uncompromisingly makes the kind of films HE would enjoy watching.
I doubt he considers his work to be high art, but for me, his work never fails to entertain.

slave2thewage
07-27-2014, 05:38 AM
TV-related but, whatever:

I know Joss Whedon fans claim that season four of Angel is THE WORST, but I'm doing a Buffyverse rewatch and season two of that show was just fucking PAINFUL to watch. It didn't help that I was basically alternating with the flawless fifth season of Buffy.

RhettButler
07-27-2014, 06:02 AM
I loved Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction. Kill Bill was fun to watch but short of being amazing. He's different, I'll give him that.
On the fence whether he's overrated or not. I'll have to watch Django Unchained first.

Reservoir Dogs is probably my least favorite QT film. It's not bad--with any of his movies there's some great dialog with colorful characters and I love the soundtrack. But the plot was a little too thin and the violence just started to get a little draining after a while. He grew leaps-and-bounds as a filmmaker with Pulp Fiction, IMHO.

Between Pulp Fiction, Inglorious Bastards and Django Unchained, it would be really hard to pick a favorite.

Tarantino's most underrated movie is Death Proof, IMHO. It's not his best movie, but it is a lot of fun and I loved Kurt Russell's performance.

ambergris
07-27-2014, 07:07 AM
Reservoir Dogs is probably my least favorite QT film. It's not bad--with any of his movies there's some great dialog with colorful characters and I love the soundtrack. But the plot was a little too thin and the violence just started to get a little draining after a while. He grew leaps-and-bounds as a filmmaker with Pulp Fiction, IMHO.

Between Pulp Fiction, Inglorious Bastards and Django Unchained, it would be really hard to pick a favorite.

Tarantino's most underrated movie is Death Proof, IMHO. It's not his best movie, but it is a lot of fun and I loved Kurt Russell's performance.

Interesting. I always thought Jackie Brown was his most underrated movie. I think it's underrated because it's essentially a movie about older people (you know, second chances, regrets, nostalgia and the like). His other movies either created or copied pop culture. Jackie Brown speaks a different language.

RhettButler
07-27-2014, 05:38 PM
Interesting. I always thought Jackie Brown was his most underrated movie. I think it's underrated because it's essentially a movie about older people (you know, second chances, regrets, nostalgia and the like). His other movies either created or copied pop culture. Jackie Brown speaks a different language.

I always saw Jackie Brown as some kind of retro 70s blaxploitation film, but I'd have to see it again. I saw it in high school when it was released and should re-watch it with fresh eyes. It probably is underrated. It's really hard to follow-up something like Pulp Fiction and it probably wasn't what audiences expected or wanted. But I remember it being a good film.

Jinsai
11-29-2014, 02:33 AM
Lately, I'm having dreams where I'm punching Shia La Boof in the face over and over again, and they're really nice and enjoyable dreams. I don't want to wake up.

I have no idea why I apparently hate this guy so much. Can someone convince me that he's a good actor? Why the fuck is this guy on my tv?

Jan
11-29-2014, 10:11 AM
Lately, I'm having dreams where I'm punching Shia La Boof in the face over and over again, and they're really nice and enjoyable dreams. I don't want to wake up.

I have no idea why I apparently hate this guy so much. Can someone convince me that he's a good actor? Why the fuck is this guy on my tv?

I honestly think he is mental. He's been in some blockbuster movies....but I agree his acting is shite for the most part. I liked Eagle Eye. But now he's just a joke with all the weirdness. It's probably dumb, but I feel bad for the kid. I really think he has issuses.

kleiner
11-29-2014, 11:47 AM
Bill at the end of Kill Bill vol 2 and his rambling speech about Batman.

I hate to be that guy but it was about Superman and connected really well to the Bride. He explains how Superman wakes up as Superman and has to put on a costume to be Clark Kent, unlike any other superhero, and that try as he may to be a human, he's always going to be Superman. His whole point is that that's who the Bride is -- she could try to get away from being a killer, she could try to get married and have a kid and work in a record store and try to be some average woman, but she would always wake up as Beatrix Kiddo and would always be a killer at heart.

I'd be lying if I said I don't adore QT films but as far as controversial statements revolving him go, I think Django is very overrated and was a huge disappointment to me. It was the first Quentin film that really felt genuinely too long for me, and it attempts a double climax that just fizzled out for me. I was and still am surprised that so many people saw it as a really edgy or daring film, because really it felt like just another QT revenge film. I'm not saying I didn't like it or anything, I did, but I wouldn't at all put it near his best.

elevenism
11-29-2014, 12:09 PM
Lately, I'm having dreams where I'm punching Shia La Boof in the face over and over again, and they're really nice and enjoyable dreams. I don't want to wake up.



that's fucking awesome. are you serious? lolz.

if you watch nymphomania, you have to see him actually having sex and his actual tool...it's hard to unsee... :/

Jinsai
11-29-2014, 12:30 PM
that's fucking awesome. are you serious? lolz.

No, I'm not really serious. Unfortunately. I wish my dreams were that awesome.

I just read this and felt sick and irritated beyond belief.

http://laist.com/2014/11/28/shia_labeouf_woman_raped_me_during.php

WorzelG
11-29-2014, 12:33 PM
I hate to be that guy but it was about Superman and connected really well to the Bride. He explains how Superman wakes up as Superman and has to put on a costume to be Clark Kent, unlike any other superhero, and that try as he may to be a human, he's always going to be Superman. His whole point is that that's who the Bride is -- she could try to get away from being a killer, she could try to get married and have a kid and work in a record store and try to be some average woman, but she would always wake up as Beatrix Kiddo and would always be a killer at heart.

I'd be lying if I said I don't adore QT films but as far as controversial statements revolving him go, I think Django is very overrated and was a huge disappointment to me. It was the first Quentin film that really felt genuinely too long for me, and it attempts a double climax that just fizzled out for me. I was and still am surprised that so many people saw it as a really edgy or daring film, because really it felt like just another QT revenge film. I'm not saying I didn't like it or anything, I did, but I wouldn't at all put it near his best.
My mistake, think I just switched off during the speech, I'm not really a superhero fan or comic / comic book reader except for watching the Superman films, and the Tim Burton batman ones.

I haven't seen any of the Dark Knight trilogy, in fact I haven't seen ANY of Christopher Nolan's films

elevenism
11-29-2014, 12:34 PM
No, I'm not really serious. Unfortunately. I wish my dreams were that awesome.

I just read this and felt sick and irritated beyond belief.

http://laist.com/2014/11/28/shia_labeouf_woman_raped_me_during.php
right?
i watched it on roku this morning...what a fucking strange weirdo.

kleiner
11-29-2014, 12:38 PM
My mistake, think I just switched off during the speech, I'm not really a superhero fan or comic / comic book reader except for watching the Superman films, and the Tim Burton batman ones.

I haven't seen any of the Dark Knight trilogy, in fact I haven't seen ANY of Christopher Nolan's films


I will definitely say that the Burton films are just a small representation of what Batman can be, but if it's not your thing then I definitely won't push, you know your taste far better than I do.


I'm not the biggest Nolan fanboy and I really hate the circlejerk surrounding him online at times, but The Prestige and Inception are well worth a watch, and TDK trilogy has some remarkable aspects that are just beyond worth it. I know it seems like Ledger's Joker has been overrated as all hell, but it really is that good. But like I said, if it's not your thing, it's not your thing, and that's certainly fair, but I'd definitely give those a shot if you're at all interested. The Prestige especially is excellent and has David Bowie as Nikolai Tesla, that alone makes it worth it.

WorzelG
11-29-2014, 12:48 PM
I will definitely say that the Burton films are just a small representation of what Batman can be, but if it's not your thing then I definitely won't push, you know your taste far better than I do.


I'm not the biggest Nolan fanboy and I really hate the circlejerk surrounding him online at times, but The Prestige and Inception are well worth a watch, and TDK trilogy has some remarkable aspects that are just beyond worth it. I know it seems like Ledger's Joker has been overrated as all hell, but it really is that good. But like I said, if it's not your thing, it's not your thing, and that's certainly fair, but I'd definitely give those a shot if you're at all interested. The Prestige especially is excellent and has David Bowie as Nikolai Tesla, that alone makes it worth it.
Yeah it's not like I'm deliberately avoiding them but I just don't tend to go to the cinema (made worse when kids came along) and now I get to go out so little, when I do I want to talk to people not watch a film in silence. But I'm planning on seeing one film this year, it is a toss up between Gone Girl and Interstellar and it will probably be the latter because it's really meant to be seen on the big screen, whereas I feel I could watch gone girl at home and it would be fine

Space Suicide
11-29-2014, 02:54 PM
I fully recommend The Prestige. I loved that film. Much better than the Illusionist, which is also a fine film.

Plus the line with Bale going 'where's duh bloodeh key" is so greatly delivered it always makes me laugh...which is kinda cruel if you've seen it.

raptors661
11-29-2014, 03:30 PM
that's fucking awesome. are you serious? lolz.

if you watch nymphomania, you have to see him actually having sex and his actual tool...it's hard to unsee... :/
That was actually a body double. They filmed the scenes twice, once with the actors, and once with the doubles. They used CG to splice the two together.

Jinsai
11-29-2014, 05:39 PM
I made it through about twenty minutes of Nymphomaniac Pt 1. I actually usually like Lars Von Trier, but I couldn't stand that movie. It was pretty much the most draining and depressing experience I've ever had watching a movie, and I felt sick afterwards.

and, I just saw that news story that Von Trier is now sober, and he thinks he has to stop making movies now because without the drugs and booze his work would suck. That's really odd...

elevenism
11-29-2014, 06:35 PM
I made it through about twenty minutes of Nymphomaniac Pt 1. I actually usually like Lars Von Trier, but I couldn't stand that movie. It was pretty much the most draining and depressing experience I've ever had watching a movie, and I felt sick afterwards.

and, I just saw that news story that Von Trier is now sober, and he thinks he has to stop making movies now because without the drugs and booze his work would suck. That's really odd...

Nymphomaniac was...yeah, it was a fucking assault on the senses. It was hard to watch. My wife and i braved the whole fucking thing.
I've never been so uncomfortable watching a movie...but i think that was the point.
raptors661 , i read that today too. And good to meet you.
Jinsai , i read the story about Von Trier's sobriety today too.
He's a strange guy. He was in the news before for talking about how cool Hitler was or something along those lines.
Bottle of vodka gets him to a parallel universe, ha. Me too...it's where i spent most of my twenties.

What I wanna know is, how did he manage to work drunk all the time?
I used to drink A LOT, and i could barely handle a desk job for 5 or 6 hours a day.
How the hell do you drink like that and be an insanely prolific critically acclaimed director, you know?

Also Jinsai , what other movies of his are good?
I first became aware of him after watching antichrist, which i found to be the most interesting and provocative, if not the best, movie i had seen in a few years, and that's saying a lot because my wife and i are serious movie buffs. I've seen Melancholia...what else?

Jinsai
11-29-2014, 06:43 PM
Also @Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) , what other movies of his are good?
I first became aware of him after watching antichrist, which i found to be the most interesting and provocative, if not the best, movie i had seen in a few years, and that's saying a lot because my wife and i are serious movie buffs. I've seen Melancholia...what else?

Have you seen Breaking the Waves or Dancer in the Dark?

elevenism
11-29-2014, 07:00 PM
Have you seen Breaking the Waves or Dancer in the Dark?
nope.

thanks, man.

there IS something i'd like to say, but i'm not sure how to put it.

I don't know what to think about rotten tomatoes and metacritic and such.
At first i thought it was awesome. A-ha! HERE is the DEFINITIVE last word on whether a movie is worth my time or not.

But then i started noticing little things, like, The Devil Inside. I thought it was a GREAT horror movie, but it received like six or 8 percent on RT.
Another recent movie that i really enjoyed was Apollo 18. Yet it only got 10 or 15 percent.

I'm starting to wish i hadn't discovered the aggregates.

Now don't get me wrong, i don;t think i've found one with a super high score that wasn't good...more often it's good flicks receiving bad scores.

Another one is The Butler: it scored in the sixties. Yet when my wife and i watched it, we were entertained, educated and moved to tears. We figured it would clean up at the oscars. And i thought SURELY it would be in the high nineties...i couldn't imagine someone not liking this movie.

And had i seen that RT score and saw that the subject matter seemed boring, we would not have caught it!

there's controversies in thare sumwheres. ;)

WorzelG
01-07-2015, 05:52 AM
Just watched The Dark Knight and Batman's voice is so silly it takes me out of the film every time he speaks

Substance242
01-07-2015, 08:21 AM
I was watching "The Judge" and thinking "wait a minute, I already watched this movie just yesterday, except it was a bit funnier and named This Is Where I Leave You". :-)

sentient02970
01-15-2015, 08:43 AM
I had a quiet night at home last night so I watched "Under The Skin" and "The Rover" back to back. I was riveted and entertained by both films (and their scores). Having done that and feeling that way, I have to wonder if there is something really wrong with me.

Jinsai
01-22-2015, 03:04 AM
Guardians of the Galaxy is a shitty movie. It's stupid. There is nothing good about this movie. Nothing. Fuck this fucking movie. This is one of the worst movies I've ever seen. This movie makes me hate the concept of movies. Fuck everyone who made this. FUCK YOU. And fuck everyone who has been recommending this movie to me... saying things like "it's the new Star Wars." Fuck you too. You're wrong.

Guardians of the Galaxy is shit. This is a stupid movie.

elevenism
01-22-2015, 08:45 PM
i didn't find anything remotely divisive or controversial about American Sniper.

It wasn't about whether the war was right or wrong and didn't make any sweeping generalizations.

It was a story about one dude.
He had his beliefs. He did his job. He got all fucked up from it.
But it was about one person.

I can't believe that people are discussing this movie in political terms.
My wife and i are pretty far to the left and we certainly didn't feel alienated by it.

Honestly, i thought the third Dark Knight batman movie was about 10 times more political (pro-right wing) than American Sniper.

Jinsai
01-23-2015, 01:49 AM
Honestly, i thought the third Dark Knight batman movie was about 10 times more political (pro-right wing) than American Sniper.

Batman (in both comic and movie form) has always had a strangely conservative subversive moral. This guy is the son of the wealthiest of the wealthy... and it is his wealth that empowers him to battle the forces of evil.... kooky but colorful prankster villains like the Joker who seek primarily to encourage chaos and radical disestablishment ideas. Some of Batman's other prominent villains are fervent extremist environmentalists (Poison Ivy) and geeky academic nerds (Riddler). Rendering Two-Face as a liberal minded politician who develops a psychotic and wantonly malicious ulterior alter-ego falls in line with the political staging.

Frank Miller's rendition of Batman was even more obviously pro-conservative with its portrayal... to the point where the author admitted it.

With the Nolan movies... I always thought it was kind of odd that the second film exonerated Batman's use of spying on people via their cell phones as a justifiable way to combat the Joker. It seemed like a strange way of exonerating the Bush administration's efforts to combat terrorism by... spying on people via their cell phone conversations. I love the Batman movies and comics, easily one of the best comic book characters ever... and maybe the only comic book movies that I think ever achieved any level of true greatness (again, fuck you Guardians of the Galaxy). But yeah, Batman always did seem like a conservative daydream fantasy.

I haven't seen American Sniper, but I plan to, and I thought Michael Moore's comments (including his elaboration) were fucking stupid.

WorzelG
01-23-2015, 02:21 AM
I can't think of a film this year with a less interesting concept than Boyhood. What is so fascinating about that idea that makes it a best picture Oscar winner?

Khrz
01-23-2015, 02:29 AM
I've come to loathe Eastwood's movies. I absolutely abhor the macho bravado that is the underlying theme of every movie he makes, which I find as manly and stupid as eating rocks. Neanderthal philosophy with a generous pouring of fascination for stupid martyrdom.
Well that's how I perceive it anyway.

Jinsai
01-23-2015, 02:41 AM
I can't think of a film this year with a less interesting concept than Boyhood. What is so fascinating about that idea that makes it a best picture Oscar winner?

Did you see the movie?


I've come to loathe Eastwood's movies. I absolutely abhor the macho bravado that is the underlying theme of every movie he makes, which I find as manly and stupid as eating rocks. Neanderthal philosophy with a generous pouring of fascination for stupid martyrdom.
Well that's how I perceive it anyway.

You don't see that in Bridges of Madison County... and Unforgiven, despite fitting perfectly into the category of what you don't like here, is a really great and gritty modern western. C'mon... Unforgiven is awesome!

Vertigo
01-23-2015, 02:48 AM
I can't think of a film this year with a less interesting concept than Boyhood. What is so fascinating about that idea that makes it a best picture Oscar winner?

Haven't seen it, it's been surprising that a film which came out so far back in the year is such a strong contender. I can say that Linklater's critical-darling films, the Before Sunrise/Sunset series, bore me to tears, so I have no interest in Boyhood either.

Khrz
01-23-2015, 03:28 AM
You don't see that in Bridges of Madison County... and Unforgiven, despite fitting perfectly into the category of what you don't like here, is a really great and gritty modern western. C'mon... Unforgiven is awesome!

Alright, let's say I felt this way for the last ten years. I loved Mystic River, then came Million Dollar Baby and from then on it's primate country. Gran Torino was particularly enraging to me. Granted, I have not watched every film he made since then, maybe I only saw the exceptions...

Jinsai
01-23-2015, 03:31 AM
Haven't seen it, it's been surprising that a film which came out so far back in the year is such a strong contender. I can say that Linklater's critical-darling films, the Before Sunrise/Sunset series, bore me to tears, so I have no interest in Boyhood either.


Boyhood WILL win best director. I would bet everything I own on that, and he probably deserves it. I haven't seen all of the competition so I can't say that... But I'd still bet the money.

and Khrz, you never saw Dazed and Confused? It's maybe the best movie ever made about growing up, and it's only a "maybe" because Boyhood is probably better.

WorzelG
01-23-2015, 03:56 AM
Did you see the movie?



C'mon... Unforgiven is awesome!
No I haven't seen it but I follow a lot of film people on twitter so I've read a lot about it and nothing about it entices me to want to see it, but I found Stand by Me boring so I just don't like 'coming of age' films.

Unforgiven is a really great film though

marodi
02-06-2015, 07:15 PM
Guardians of the Galaxy is a shitty movie. It's stupid. There is nothing good about this movie. Nothing. Fuck this fucking movie. This is one of the worst movies I've ever seen. This movie makes me hate the concept of movies. Fuck everyone who made this. FUCK YOU. And fuck everyone who has been recommending this movie to me... saying things like "it's the new Star Wars." Fuck you too. You're wrong.

Guardians of the Galaxy is shit. This is a stupid movie.

I love you Jinsai, even when you're wrong. Guardians is awesome; you just haven't watched the Dancing Baby Groot video enough times.

You are Groot too, my friend.

Jinsai
02-06-2015, 08:57 PM
I love you Jinsai, even when you're wrong. Guardians is awesome; you just haven't watched the Dancing Baby Groot video enough times.

You are Groot too, my friend.

I actually warmed up to it once I got over the aspects that were bothering me and lowered my expectations... and while this review still pretty accurately sums up a lot of the things I didn't like about the movie, (http://nypost.com/2014/07/31/guardians-of-the-galaxy-is-space-junk/) ultimately it turns out to be pretty fun if you take it for what it is.

RhettButler
02-07-2015, 07:55 PM
There are no bad James Bond movies. Some are better than others, but no bad ones.

kleiner
02-07-2015, 08:02 PM
There are no bad James Bond movies. Some are better than others, but no bad ones.
Some of the Roger Moore ones are passionately cheesey and a few of the Pierce Brosnan films are a total mess but otherwise I'd widely agree. Borderline worst, they're still entertaining, and I really never watch one expecting much more than that.

Kid Charlemagne
02-07-2015, 08:03 PM
There are no bad James Bond movies. Some are better than others, but no bad ones.

The World is Not Enough and Die Another Day are fucking putrid, but other than that the series is pretty good. It's a shame Brosnan was in those, because while his films were probably the worst of the bunch, he actually did a very good job.

RhettButler
02-07-2015, 09:45 PM
DAD is often singled out as the worst James Bond film, or among the worst. While it's not one of the best films in the series, I enjoyed it. I actually thought that all four Brosnan-era films were of the same quality--not the best in the series, but better-than-average action films. The invisible car (DAD), and casting Denise Richards as a nuclear physicist (TWINE) was pretty ridiculous--but I can let that go--they were fun movies and Brosnan's charisma, some great action sequences and pretty good villains made the films work for me.

Brosnan deserves a lot of credit for bringing the franchise back to life. The series was pretty much dead-in-the-water until GoldenEye, which really gave the series a shot in the arm. Brosnan made 007 relevant again for a new generation of film goers. That said, I think that Dalton's two films were, overall, better. The Living Daylights is an excellent Cold War thriller with lots of unexpected twists and Licence to Kill sees Bond going rogue, on a personal vendetta. The Brosnan films look better and had bigger budgets, but Dalton's films had better scripts, IMHO. Although LTK does look kind of cheap, like a made-for-TV movie and has a very dated, Miami Vice feel, it's still very enjoyable.

RhettButler
02-07-2015, 09:53 PM
Some of the Roger Moore ones are passionately cheesey and a few of the Pierce Brosnan films are a total mess but otherwise I'd widely agree. Borderline worst, they're still entertaining, and I really never watch one expecting much more than that.
I recently watched A View to a Kill and man it was cheesy. Roger Moore was 58 and the Bond girl was about 24, it's a rip-off of Goldfinger ​and one of the film's major action scenes involves Bond stealing a fire truck! Still, Roger Moore, as old as he was to be playing Bond, shines. Also, Christopher Walken was pretty awesome as Zorin.

sa_nick
02-08-2015, 02:39 AM
I only realised recently that last year several of my favourite directors; Wes Anderson, David Fincher and the Dardenne Brothers, all released new films that I found to be their worst in years/ever

hobochic
02-08-2015, 03:30 AM
I can't think of a film this year with a less interesting concept than Boyhood. What is so fascinating about that idea that makes it a best picture Oscar winner?

Linklater has been one of my favorite directors ever since i first saw slacker and dazed. I loved Waking Life. Yet, I couldn't appreciate Boyhood for more than what it was: a two+ hour long movie. As interesting as the technical and practical aspects of the making of it are, it doesn't matter, and shouldn't matter. I'm as little impressed with the actors growing up or growing old in it, as I am with actors in Walking Dead, Lost or any soap opera growing up during the course of X amount of seasons. We age. Big deal.
Interesting to see faces develop, degrade, get fat, ugly, uglier or pretty. (There's a bunch of time lapse clips in youtube) Sure, but how good is the story? Moving around and having alcoholic fathers/mothers is sad, plenty of us have been there. It doesn't make it an extraordinary movie.

Frozen Beach
02-08-2015, 05:46 AM
The World is Not Enough That movie was worth it for the videogame, which was better than the movie.

icecream
02-08-2015, 07:05 AM
I can't believe Grand Budapest is an Oscar contender for best picture while Inherent Vice gets 2 nomintstions. What the actual fuck. Wes Anderson is a one trick pony while Paul Thomas Anderson is an artist. That shouldn't be controversial but, fuck...

marodi
02-08-2015, 01:59 PM
The series was pretty much dead-in-the-water until GoldenEye, which really gave the series a shot in the arm.

GoldenEye is my personal favorite and in my opinion, one of the best Bond ever. Brosnan was the Bond everyone wanted at the time and look at the rest of the cast: Famke Janssen (amazing), Sean Bean (who's always a great villain) and my favorite: Alan Cumming as Boris. God I love Boris. That scene with the bomb pen still has me on the edge of my seat.

I just love that movie so much.

Vertigo
02-08-2015, 02:05 PM
The World Is Not Enough is my favourite Bond film. Yeah, I said it. It hurts me deep in my man-parts to hear you guys disparaging it.

kleiner
02-08-2015, 02:31 PM
I can't believe Grand Budapest is an Oscar contender for best picture while Inherent Vice gets 2 nomintstions. What the actual fuck. Wes Anderson is a one trick pony while Paul Thomas Anderson is an artist. That shouldn't be controversial but, fuck...
The Master was also hardcore snubbed when it came out and it is probably my favorite film of that year.

RhettButler
02-08-2015, 05:46 PM
GoldenEye is my personal favorite and in my opinion, one of the best Bond ever. Brosnan was the Bond everyone wanted at the time and look at the rest of the cast: Famke Janssen (amazing), Sean Bean (who's always a great villain) and my favorite: Alan Cumming as Boris. God I love Boris. That scene with the bomb pen still has me on the edge of my seat.

I just love that movie so much.
" A gun and a radio...not exactly Christmas."
"Were you expecting an exploding pen? We don't really go for that sort of thing nowadays."

Substance242
02-09-2015, 04:44 AM
The best movie of all times is The NeverEnding Story (http://www.csfd.cz/film/7244-nekonecny-pribeh/).

I loved it as a teenager, and I still do. Magic mirror gate (who am I really?), G'mork's monologue ("Because people have begun to lose their hopes and forget their dreams. So the Nothing grows stronger. (..) Because people who have no hopes are easy to control; and whoever has the control... has the power!", The Oracle, Falkor the luck dragon (not dog), "They look like big, good, strong hands, don't they? I always thought that's what they were"... Beautiful.

PS: "We don't even care whether or not we care."

kel
02-09-2015, 01:31 PM
'adventures in babysitting' is one of the best movies ever made.

marodi
02-09-2015, 05:54 PM
'adventures in babysitting' is one of the best movies ever made.

Yes it is, absolutely.

Frozen Beach
02-10-2015, 02:37 PM
It fucking pisses me off when a movie has several different cuts because then I feel obligated to see them all. Damn it, Manhunter.

Jinsai
02-14-2015, 03:06 AM
The Babadook is a seriously stupid movie. Don't believe the hype. "Scariest movie ever" my ass. It starts off with an interesting (but grating) premise, and then dissolves into laughable bullshit territory about halfway in, and it's all downhill from there.

Rabbit
02-14-2015, 04:11 AM
Jupiter Ascending is already being hated upon. My initial reaction was WTF is this but honestly it's fun, really fun. Mark my words it will end up being loved when it airs over and over on regular cable.

hobochic
02-14-2015, 05:46 AM
'adventures in babysitting' is one of the best movies ever made.

I haven't seen that one since the late 80's/early 90's but I remember loving it every time, and falling in love with Elizabeth Shue. :)

Vertigo
02-14-2015, 06:20 AM
Yeah, Jupiter Ascending made me laugh harder than anything I've seen in years. Had to bury my face in my arms to stop literally screaming with laughter when Sean Bean started talking about bees.

RhettButler
02-14-2015, 07:06 AM
Don Johnson is awesome and should make more films.

Alexandros
02-14-2015, 07:40 AM
The Babadook is a seriously stupid movie. Don't believe the hype. "Scariest movie ever" my ass. It starts off with an interesting (but grating) premise, and then dissolves into laughable bullshit territory about halfway in, and it's all downhill from there.

I don't know, I think the problem lies mainly on how it was sold. The actual story being told is quite different than what is being shown. And it's not very subtle about it either. Anyway, my point is that this movie was good not for any horror element, but because it was a rather original (albeit hamfisted) way to talk about how the memory of the dead father and the circumstances of his death haunts the mother to the point it festers and causes her to blame her son even if she knows it's not really his fault.

Khrz
02-14-2015, 07:46 AM
Yeah, it was a nice change, I'm getting tired of demons and ghosts and spooky entities that end up being a guy in a stupid mask anyway (I'm looking at you, Sinister).

Millionaire
02-14-2015, 11:45 AM
I got dragged into seeing 50 Shades of Grey, and it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be(yeah, I know...big controversial statement there). Don't get me wrong, its pretty crap, but I was entertained by its attempt to make themes like BDSM palatable for the average housewife. It tried to fit stuff like repressed sexual abuse into this romance novel setting, and the whole thing felt so safe and naive that I found it strangely charming. Come to think of it, thats similar to how Mr. Grey himself felt about Anastasia. Aaaaaaawwww.

Rabbit
02-14-2015, 01:15 PM
Yeah, Jupiter Ascending made me laugh harder than anything I've seen in years. Had to bury my face in my arms to stop literally screaming with laughter when Sean Bean started talking about bees.
I don't get this. What's silly about it that isn't obviously ALREADY silly? Bees follow the Queen Bee.....People walk into Wachowski movies always thinking they're going to be watching another Matrix. Shift your paradigms people. Fuck.

Khrz
02-14-2015, 01:26 PM
Shift your paradigms people. Fuck.

Calm yo tits man, their last movie is Cloud Atlas, it was elaborate but it wasn't pants-on-head retarded... Now Speed Racer was retarded, but not elaborate. Give the people some time to process that they decided to make an expensive, extremely produced elaborately retarded epic. Nobody expected them to fire all their guns at once...

Vertigo
02-14-2015, 01:32 PM
I didn't walk into it expecting another Matrix (I'm actually a fan of nearly all their work), I'd heard enough to know it would be mad and pretty. I hadn't expected it to crack me up so much though. I enjoyed Jupiter Ascending a lot, the only dull notes for me were the action sequences.

Dra508
02-14-2015, 01:41 PM
I got dragged into seeing 50 Shades of Grey, and it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be(yeah, I know...big controversial statement there). Don't get me wrong, its pretty crap, but I was entertained by its attempt to make themes like BDSM palatable for the average housewife. It tried to fit stuff like repressed sexual abuse into this romance novel setting, and the whole thing felt so safe and naive that I found it strangely charming. Come to think of it, thats similar to how Mr. Grey himself felt about Anastasia. Aaaaaaawwww.

Living in Dallas now, I really need to troll this dude. According to him, us little women need to be sat down and not be debased like Anastasia.

http://youtu.be/ycBAW4S4ITs

kel
02-15-2015, 12:20 AM
I haven't seen that one since the late 80's/early 90's but I remember loving it every time, and falling in love with Elizabeth Shue. :)
as a young gay kid in the 80's, that opening scene with the "and then he kissed me" hair brush lip sync was EVERYTHING. see it again if you can. it's a lot of fun.

another kick ass teen flick from the same time (relatively) is 'don't tell mom, the babysitter's dead.' it's SO good and still a total blast.

that scene at the end when modern english's "life's rich tapestry" plays after the fashion show? unforgettable and so perfect for the time. at (i think) 11, it shifted my interest in music. more new wave, less paula abdul.

Space Suicide
02-15-2015, 12:39 AM
James Cameron's Avatar is an overblown piece of shit.

Shadaloo
02-17-2015, 04:45 PM
Kevin Smith should just stop making movies (and he should never, ever write Batman comics ever again).

littlemonkey613
02-17-2015, 10:04 PM
Living in Dallas now, I really need to troll this dude. According to him, us little women need to be sat down and not be debased like Anastasia.

http://youtu.be/ycBAW4S4ITs

Fuck that guy he is trash, but tbh Anastasia is treated terribly and its clear that mr grey doesn't give a shit about consent or whether she is actually comfortable/ he is abusive and a creepy ass stalker. I don't mind people enjoying it at all or anything seeing as it is literally Twilight with BDSM. It started as an bella/edward alternate universe fanfic so thats why all the abusive/creepy elements are there. But I'm glad that other informed people are saying women shouldn't be treated the way she is treated and that its not a healthy example, though obviously its fine for fantasy. Seems obvious but then you remember what culture we are in and its like nahh this needs to be talked about.

My controversial movie opinion is that The Phantom Menace is WAYYY worse than Attack of the Clones. Urrybody smokin

Baphomette
02-18-2015, 02:53 AM
It fucking pisses me off when a movie has several different cuts because then I feel obligated to see them all. Damn it, Manhunter.There's more than one cut of Manhunter?? Where... How... GIMME!!!


The World Is Not Enough is my favourite Bond film. Yeah, I said it. It hurts me deep in my man-parts to hear you guys disparaging it.

The World is Not Enough and Die Another Day are fucking putrid, but other than that the series is pretty good. It's a shame Brosnan was in those, because while his films were probably the worst of the bunch, he actually did a very good job.

George Lazenby = Best Bond. OHMSS = Best Bond movie.

Frozen Beach
02-18-2015, 06:32 AM
There's more than one cut of Manhunter?? Where... How... GIMME!!!


http://manhunter1986.com/miss00.html

Space Suicide
02-18-2015, 06:12 PM
*Hit me with rocks or bricks if you prefer*

Even removing myself from the time period I live in, I find Citizen Kane to be one of the most absolutely overblown and overrated movies in all of cinema. Nothing from it strikes me as a game changer in any way, shape or form.

It's not the time frame or period either of classic Black and White to why I think it's nothing special. I love all the old Universal Studios Monsters films, The Grapes of Wrath, Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, Modern Times (if it counts) and even Casablanca (which I don't think is extraordinary, however I can see the impact).

Jinsai
04-26-2015, 01:06 AM
Schindler's List is maybe the best film I've ever seen, if you take out the final melodramatic moment where he cries about selling off his nazi pin.

It's as close to perfection as a movie gets, and it tackles what is probably the heaviest narrative imaginable. I run into a lot of hate for Spielberg, but I have yet to hear anyone give me a legitimate complaint about this movie. Even Kubrick's objection that Spielberg wanted to make the holocaust into a "story of victory" is something that falls flat when you assess the final product. It's perfect, horrifying, maybe the most upsetting thing I've ever seen, but I cannot understand how someone could watch this movie and not feel that they're changed as a person.

Jinsai
05-04-2015, 03:11 AM
When does The Wire get good? I've had people laughing at me for not watching this show, and I have not heard a single person tell me it's anything less than great.... I'm watching the first episode right now, and I do NOT get it.

fillow
05-04-2015, 03:34 AM
Check back after two of three episodes.

mfte
05-04-2015, 10:43 AM
When does The Wire get good? I've had people laughing at me for not watching this show, and I have not heard a single person tell me it's anything less than great.... I'm watching the first episode right now, and I do NOT get it.

It's slow burning. You need to invest in the characters so that you can really feel some feels when they starts getting killed and what not. Also... going into something after the world telling you that it is the greatest thing ever can't be easy.

sentient02970
05-04-2015, 10:58 AM
Agreed, for me I did like the first 2 seasons OK and it does build characters well. But the show really didn't come up to my full attention until I started watching Season 3 and they bring on Bunny Colvin. His story arc is compelling.

Sutekh
06-14-2015, 10:31 AM
pretty much all of these cgi heavy superhero movies are shit and possibly a sign of a culture in decline

october_midnight
06-14-2015, 10:51 AM
When does The Wire get good? I've had people laughing at me for not watching this show, and I have not heard a single person tell me it's anything less than great.... I'm watching the first episode right now, and I do NOT get it.

Not to sound like a broken record, but what everyone says is true... It starts off quite dull to be perfectly honest. Took me even longer than just 3 or 4 episodes to finally dig it, but once it gets rolling, it's pretty great.

Sutekh
06-14-2015, 10:58 AM
Schindler's List is maybe the best film I've ever seen, if you take out the final melodramatic moment where he cries about selling off his nazi pin.

It's as close to perfection as a movie gets, and it tackles what is probably the heaviest narrative imaginable. I run into a lot of hate for Spielberg, but I have yet to hear anyone give me a legitimate complaint about this movie. Even Kubrick's objection that Spielberg wanted to make the holocaust into a "story of victory" is something that falls flat when you assess the final product. It's perfect, horrifying, maybe the most upsetting thing I've ever seen, but I cannot understand how someone could watch this movie and not feel that they're changed as a person.

also amazing to think it was made in the same 2 year period he made jurassic park

if you like SL check out a russian film called "come and see", its a drama about nazi atrocities in the occupied ussr, its so bleak I believe the soviet authorities buried it for years. I always felt it and SL were like peas in a pod

sa_nick
06-14-2015, 12:13 PM
It's slow burning. You need to invest in the characters so that you can really feel some feels when they starts getting killed and what not. Also... going into something after the world telling you that it is the greatest thing ever can't be easy.

I liked The Wire but never got invested in any characters, it was always about the story. Six Feet Under and Sopranos were there for all my character based television needs.

Also Will Ferrell, Vince Vaughn, Tina Fey, Sacha Baron Cohen and Jerry Seinfeld constantly seem unfunny to me. Is it a US thing (cept maybe Sasha Baron Cohen)?

Space Suicide
06-14-2015, 12:15 PM
I liked The Wire but never got invested in any characters, it was always about the story. Six Feet Under and Sopranos were there for all my character based television needs.

Also Will Ferrell, Vince Vaughn, Tina Fey, Sacha Baron Cohen and Jerry Seinfeld constantly seem unfunny to me. Is it a US thing?

Funny, not, funny, has his moments, funny. Guess it's a US thing or opinion?

@Jinsai (http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=272) I own Sclindler's List on blu-ray. I LOVE the film. It's probably my favorite Holocaust/pre-WWII film besides The Pianist.

Sutekh
06-14-2015, 12:58 PM
Also Will Ferrell, Vince Vaughn, Tina Fey, Sacha Baron Cohen and Jerry Seinfeld constantly seem unfunny to me. Is it a US thing (cept maybe Sasha Baron Cohen)?

I like cohen but agreed on the rest... love larry david but seinfeld leaves me cold. Tina Fey and 30 rock actually annoy me. woo we're all just quirky overpaid middle class media fucksocks... what is there to like. and ferrel was the jar jar binks of that jay and silent bob movie

Space Suicide
07-04-2015, 01:45 PM
What is exactly so great about The Princess Bride? I hear bout people gushing over it all the time.

RhettButler
07-04-2015, 02:40 PM
Spaceballs was better than any Star Wars movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o6rNEqe0qg

marodi
07-04-2015, 02:48 PM
What is exactly so great about The Princess Bride?

Everything.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9tAKLTktY0

WorzelG
12-03-2015, 10:30 AM
Reading this comment from Burt Reynolds about how Paul Thomas Anderson was young and full of himself, reminded me how boring I found Boogie Nights, it just seemed to drag on forever, I can't remember the plot. It's so overrated

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/he-was-young-and-full-of-himself-burt-reynolds-on-why-he-hated-paul-thomas-anderson-during-boogie-nights-20151203?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Reznor2112
12-03-2015, 10:55 AM
Batman v. Superman looks fucking stupid.

fillow
12-14-2015, 02:55 AM
^^
You think $5,000 is too much? Think again!
From the same seller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SNOW-WHITE-AND-THE-SEVEN-7-DWARFS-CineMasterpieces-1937-MOVIE-POSTER-DISNEY-/181829863381?hash=item2a55e787d5:g:ziYAAOSwMmBVyUy a

Wolfkiller
12-14-2015, 03:46 AM
The Big Lebowski is ridiculously over hyped and was the opposite of funny.

Jinsai
12-14-2015, 05:18 AM
The Big Lebowski is ridiculously over hyped and was the opposite of funny.

You are ridiculously wrong and the opposite of correct.

The Big Lebowski is maybe the funniest movie ever made. We just have very different humor sets.
what is your favorite comedy, out of curiosity?

Wolfkiller
12-14-2015, 09:06 AM
You are ridiculously wrong and the opposite of correct.

The Big Lebowski is maybe the funniest movie ever made. We just have very different humor sets.
what is your favorite comedy, out of curiosity?

Evil Dead 2/Army of Darkness, Haggard, Wet Hot American Summer, Clerks/Chasing Amy/Mallrats... all quality comedy. I think I smirked at the hallucination scene in BL and that's about it.
Will Ferrell sucks comedy's dick as well. He's terrible at it, tries to hard, scrapes with the teeth a bit... But he's SO eager and let's to blow your load on his face, so he remains popular to dude bros despite all else.

Prettybrokenspiral
12-14-2015, 12:14 PM
The Big Lebowski is ridiculously over hyped and was the opposite of funny.

I thought the same thing too, for years. Then one day I was watching it with someone and it all just kind of fell into place for me. It's like "stoner funny", I think. It's funny in that it's unlike anything ever created in cinema, and it's actors and actresses all shine in their notable roles. It's very akin to Howard Hawks' adaptation of The Big Sleep, in that it has this confusing, meandering plot that's too inexplicably compelling to stop watching. Jeff Bridges, John Goodman and Philip Seymour Hoffman have these complete fucking oddball roles unlike anything else they've ever played, and yet they nail it perfectly.

That part when the Dude is sitting in his bathtub smoking a joint, hearing the answering machine message about his car being found and then getting a marmot thrown in his tub by the Nazis makes me almost piss my pants every time I see it. And I can't even figure out why :eek:

Space Suicide
12-14-2015, 01:32 PM
I thought the same thing too, for years. Then one day I was watching it with someone and it all just kind of fell into place for me. It's like "stoner funny", I think. It's funny in that it's unlike anything ever created in cinema, and it's actors and actresses all shine in their notable roles. It's very akin to Howard Hawks' adaptation of The Big Sleep, in that it has this confusing, meandering plot that's too inexplicably compelling to stop watching. Jeff Bridges, John Goodman and Philip Seymour Hoffman have these complete fucking oddball roles unlike anything else they've ever played, and yet they nail it perfectly.

That part when the Dude is sitting in his bathtub smoking a joint, hearing the answering machine message about his car being found and then getting a marmot thrown in his tub by the Nazis makes me almost piss my pants every time I see it. And I can't even figure out why :eek:

Walter is the best part of the whole film. I love every one of his dialogues, his character, his motives and of course his role in the film. His best scenes are the Rules speech in the bowling alley and the EDITED (yes I said EDITED) version of the one and only infamous scene with "referencing a Stranger"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCcKBcZzGdA

You're killing your father, Larry.

Exocet
12-14-2015, 02:50 PM
Batman movies have never done anything for me. , Chris Nolan (good director) trying to intellectualize it made it even worse.
Yes all movies have their moments... yet ive never been able to warm to the whole franchise.
Always thought it was a very camp comic book. More suited to that style. Same with Spiderman. Something blocks me from taking it too seriously.
Maybe its just me.....i loved X Men on big screen though.
I thought the first X Men from 2000 by Bryan Synger was the best.
The source material for X Men is darker (holocaust survivors etc) . It for some reason to me works better in a dramatic way on the big screen.

Ryan
12-14-2015, 04:24 PM
^^
You think $5,000 is too much? Think again!
From the same seller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SNOW-WHITE-AND-THE-SEVEN-7-DWARFS-CineMasterpieces-1937-MOVIE-POSTER-DISNEY-/181829863381?hash=item2a55e787d5:g:ziYAAOSwMmBVyUy a

Oh I think l'll buy two.

onthewall2983
12-14-2015, 04:26 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCcKBcZzGdA

You're killing your father, Larry.

My favorite censored-for-TV line is "My name is Buck and I like to [party]" from Kill Bill Vol. 1.

Frozen Beach
12-14-2015, 05:27 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly9lKAaL8zQ
Nothing can beat this one. They redubbed a line from the movie that was somewhat offensive (plus it had cursing in it), and they actually made it more offensive...

Exocet
03-03-2016, 08:56 PM
I wish James Cameron would stop wasting his time with the Avatar films.
He has made ONE film since 1997.

He made some great films, he had a lot of talent, i loved the women in his films, he added depth to his charachters.

What is he doing? He could have made about Ten films since Titanic.

Wasting his time on this dull Avatar bullshit...

Hazekiah
03-03-2016, 09:07 PM
Since '97, Cameron's made a bunch of science center IMAX movies, developed his PACE 3D camera system, finally filmed Avatar, developed the next 3 sequels, developed a custom submarine, gone to the ocean floor and back, joined a tribe and protested a government, etc.

Criticizing JAMES CAMERON of all people for "wasting time" is ridiculous, lol.

fillow
03-04-2016, 12:21 AM
developed the next 3 sequels
OK, I get making one Avatar film. But is he creating any new revolutionary techniques along with those 3? If no, then yes he is wasting time now.

onthewall2983
03-04-2016, 12:34 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ly9lKAaL8zQ
Nothing can beat this one. They redubbed a line from the movie that was somewhat offensive (plus it had cursing in it), and they actually made it more offensive...

I'll do you one better


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuQP4d_r_Gs

Probably the only time I'll ever suggest Renny Harlin was better than Scorsese.

Substance242
03-04-2016, 01:47 AM
Ghostbusters: a fine example of how stupid the eighties were.

marodi
03-04-2016, 02:30 PM
ghostbusters: A fine example of how stupid the eighties were.

Blasphemy.

october_midnight
03-14-2016, 09:59 AM
I guess this is controversial? Other than John Goodman's knockout performance, 10 Cloverfield Lane was pure garbage.

emptydesk
03-14-2016, 10:00 AM
Ghostbusters: a fine example of how stupid the eighties were.

It's a family movie, what did you want? Manhunter?

onthewall2983
04-23-2016, 11:52 AM
Dennis Quaid was a much better Doc Holliday than Val Kilmer.

marodi
04-23-2016, 12:52 PM
Dennis Quaid was a much better Doc Holliday than Val Kilmer.

Blasphemy.

You. Me. Tombstone. Right now.

onthewall2983
04-23-2016, 02:04 PM
I'm not putting down Tombstone at all, it's a really good movie. Quaid dared to play him as unlikable, which probably factors as a plus in Kilmer's favor. I've not seen either it or Wyatt Earp in awhile so I'm probably due a re-watch soon.

emptydesk
07-25-2016, 06:10 PM
I'm a huge comics fan but tend to hate all film and TV adaptations. I just don't think it shines as well outside of its own medium.

Millionaire
07-27-2016, 01:20 AM
I think The Neverending Story is the best thing in the fantasy genre ever put out on film or television. And I say that as a big fan of Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones.

RhettButler
07-27-2016, 02:43 AM
I think The Neverending Story is the best thing in the fantasy genre ever put out on film or television. And I say that as a big fan of Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones.
I'd take TNS over Lord of the Rings. I enjoyed the trilogy, but was never that into it.

kel
08-06-2016, 05:02 PM
no one will ever know how to pick final scene music like john hughes did.

RhettButler
01-20-2017, 04:58 PM
Rogue one is the second best Star Wars movie, only behind ESB.

eversonpoe
01-20-2017, 05:38 PM
martin scorsese is overrated, for the most part. while Taxi Driver is an incredible film, and he definitely knows how to craft a quality movie, i don't ENJOY most of his films. i don't understand why people have such a collective boner for The Departed. i found it bleak, upsetting, and not entertaining.

RhettButler
01-20-2017, 05:45 PM
Singles is one my favorite movies and is somewhat overlooked. Not a great film, but it is funny, has such charm, is the zeitgeist of the early 90's that really resonates with me, and has a killer soundtrack.

miss k bee
01-21-2017, 02:54 PM
Twilight is one boring overhyped film, could only watch half of it

thevoid99
01-21-2017, 10:25 PM
Twilight is one boring overhyped film, could only watch half of it

That's not really controversial unless you're one of those teens that loved those films. I thought they were shit though the first film was kind of watchable but it got worse w/ every other film that followed.

BRoswell
01-21-2017, 10:29 PM
martin scorsese is overrated, for the most part. while Taxi Driver is an incredible film, and he definitely knows how to craft a quality movie, i don't ENJOY most of his films. i don't understand why people have such a collective boner for The Departed. i found it bleak, upsetting, and not entertaining.

You thought Taxi Driver was incredible, but The Departed was too bleak for you? I find that really odd considering that Taxi Driver is a lot more bleak than The Departed.

dlb
03-26-2017, 08:42 AM
No idea if this is really controversial, but whenever I read that Dave Bautista is also in a movie I get immediately put off. I don't know why since he seems like a nice person to be around with but why is he cast in probably every movie in need of a brute? I hated his performance in Spectre and I think he's the worst thing about Guardians. Of course he can't rewrite his roles, but his casting is always annoying IMHO. Since Jason Mamoa is in about everything already and so is the Rock, let's get Bautista... jesus.

eversonpoe
03-26-2017, 02:52 PM
No idea if this is really controversial, but whenever I read that Dave Bautista is also in a movie I get immediately put off. I don't know why since he seems like a nice person to be around with but why is he cast in probably every movie in need of a brute? I hated his performance in Spectre and I think he's the worst thing about Guardians. Of course he can't rewrite his roles, but his casting is always annoying IMHO. Since Jason Mamoa is in about everything already and so is the Rock, let's get Bautista... jesus.

wait, you didn't like him in Guardians? i thought he was perfect and hilarious. i haven't seen him in anything else but i can't imagine anyone else pulling that role off with the same balance of comedy and brutishness, where you'd still love the character.