Controversial Cinema-Related Opinions

[niggo]

Not really controversial but here it goes.

I LOVE the first Pirates movie. It's a fucking fantastic piece of cinema, easily in my top 10. It has everything: a compelling story, a great setting, awesome characters, unexpected twists, great action sequences and most importantly — heart. Something that's deeply missing in modern blockbusters.

I recently saw the fifth one and it was a huge disappointment. Granted, I expected it to be crappy but it still kinda hurts. I think it's a great franchise and although the first two sequels weren't perfect they still captured a lot of the things that made the first one so great. This one is the same half-assed, poorly written, uninspired and heartless sequel as the fourth installment. What makes me especially mad is that Jack Sparrow literally evolved into a caricature of himself; in the first one his character is so fascinating because he's sharp-witted, unpredictable and brilliant in his own way — now he's just a stupid drunk who's falling asleep mid-sentence.

It's also fucking sad because I hear a lot of positive feedback for this film. "It's going in the right direction again" ... No. Just no. It's nothing like the first movies. Is this really what people want? Soulless sequels that completely miss what was great about the franchise? Why do mainstream blockbusters need to be this fucking shitty in order to make money? I just don't get it.

Late edit: I get it now. I somehow forgot that people have shit taste.

[Space Suicide]

Not really controversial but here it goes.

I LOVE the first Pirates movie. It's a fucking fantastic piece of cinema, easily in my top 10. It has everything: a compelling story, a great setting, awesome characters, unexpected twists, great action sequences and most importantly — heart. Something that's deeply missing in modern blockbusters.

I recently saw the fifth one and it was a huge disappointment. Granted, I expected it to be crappy but it still kinda hurts. I think it's a great franchise and although the first two sequels weren't perfect they still captured a lot of the things that made the first one so great. This one is the same half-assed, poorly written, uninspired and heartless sequel as the fourth installment. What makes me especially mad is that Jack Sparrow literally evolved into a caricature of himself; in the first one his character is so fascinating because he's sharp-witted, unpredictable and brilliant in his own way — now he's just a stupid drunk who's falling asleep mid-sentence.

It's also fucking sad because I hear a lot of positive feedback for this film. "It's going in the right direction again" ... No. Just no. It's nothing like the first movies. Is this really what people want? Soulless sequels that completely miss what was great about the franchise? Why do mainstream blockbusters need to be this fucking shitty in order to make money? I just don't get it.

Late edit: I get it now. I somehow forgot that people have shit taste.

I dug On Stranger Tides. Not sure how I feel about this new one though.

[elevenism]

I dug On Stranger Tides. Not sure how I feel about this new one though.
I fucking love all four of them.

I haven't seen the new one but i figure i will probably like it.

[bobbie solo]

Listen guys, Johnny Depp's divorce & wine habit aren't gonna pay for themselves. You'll get alot of shitty Pirates sequels, and you'll fucking LIKE IT, ok???

[october_midnight]

Can't lie...wife and I saw the new Pirates movie and liked it. Was it mind blowing? Nah. Good as the first two? Nah. It was a fun summer movie that we had fun seeing after a nice dinner on a Friday night. Does that mean we have 'shit taste'? Who cares. It was a movie. I have a lot more to worry about. Having kids and two mortgages changes what you worry about I guess. Is that controversial?

[niggo]

I understand that I'm a bit more invested in this franchise than your usual friday night moviegoer. It's just -- I don't know. I hate this evolution so much. Why does the most important character of the series need to get dumber and dumber? What's the deal with that? And most importantly, where's the fucking heart? The emotional aspects of this new one were so forced, it's as if they barely tried to make you really root for the characters. Everything's so shallow. The whole deal with Will's son would've been the perfect setup for a strong emotional connection between him and Jack. There were a lot of parallels and possibilites for great writing. The old, interesting part about Jack's character would've used all the things he knew about Will and his son for his own good and would've tried everything just so he'd be able to save his own skin. But, and that's the important part, he'd show his true nature in the very end: He's a good guy, he has a heart, and he cares about his friends and is even willing to sacrifice himself for that.

Anything remotely close to that happening today? Nope. He's a drunk idiot. Nothing more than a clown who's passively dragged through the story with a couple of bad jokes now and then. 0% wit. 0% mystery.

I know it's a bit lengthy, but for those interested, here's a clip that's trying to show what's so genius about the first movie. Although everybody's entitled to their own opinion, I think we can all agree that all of the sequels, especially the last two, fail to capture that tone. I just don't get the need for blockbusters getting more and more easy. Obviously the producers are going where the money is, but I just can't understand it. Hence my admittedly provocative comment about shit taste.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhdBNVY55oM

[wizfan]

I hated The Lego Movie.

I grew up with Legos, so I expected this movie to make me burst in joy. It had an okay (if sometimes annoyingly smug) story, nice set-pieces, and I loved how they found creative ways to incorporate what you can do with Lego bricks into an actual story. The score by Mark Mothersbaugh is great, as always. What killed it for me was the voice acting. Great cast on paper, horribly executed. Most of these A-listers seemed to have no experience in voice acting. Ol' Pixar knows how to pick great voices, not great names, and at least ol' Dreamworks knew how to squeeze the best out of their star-studded cast (even Shark Tale). Chris Pratt never convinced me that he was in character, or that he was anywhere but in a booth with a microphone. I've heard even worse things about the Angry Birds Movie (both story-wise and voice-wise), so I'm staying away from that one.

Haven't seen the Lego Batman Movie yet. It better be good.

[eversonpoe]

I hated The Lego Movie.

I grew up with Legos, so I expected this movie to make me burst in joy. It had an okay (if sometimes annoyingly smug) story, nice set-pieces, and I loved how they found creative ways to incorporate what you can do with Lego bricks into an actual story. The score by Mark Mothersbaugh is great, as always. What killed it for me was the voice acting. Great cast on paper, horribly executed. Most of these A-listers seemed to have no experience in voice acting. Ol' Pixar knows how to pick great voices, not great names, and at least ol' Dreamworks knew how to squeeze the best out of their star-studded cast (even Shark Tale). Chris Pratt never convinced me that he was in character, or that he was anywhere but in a booth with a microphone. I've heard even worse things about the Angry Birds Movie (both story-wise and voice-wise), so I'm staying away from that one.

Haven't seen the Lego Batman Movie yet. It better be good.

oh, that makes me sad. i adore the lego movie. i feel like, despite its relatively standard archetypal story, it manages to add so much to make it interesting. i feel like chris pratt was the perfect person to play emmett, and everyone else is fantastic, too. i've watched around 5 times and i never get sick of it because it's just so fun and sweet and still makes me cry every time.

[Haysey_Draws]

This might be controversial, but i really didn't rate the Lego Batman Movie.

I really enjoyed the Lego movie, but found the Lego Batman just...not as good as everyone else (seriously people are putting it up there with The Dark Knight and Batman 1989...HOW?!) It's just ...blah.

Of course having the whole "friends are important/like family" rammed down my throat whilst sitting on my own in an empty 300 seat cinema didn't help...the irony wasn't lost on me :rolleyes:

[Failure]

Here goes. "Once Bitten" is Jim Carrey's best film. "True Romance" would have been the best Quentin Tarantino film if he had directed it himself. "Cocktail" is the most re-watchable Tom Cruise film. George Clooney is a shitty actor. "The Dark Knight" is overrated.

[eversonpoe]

Here goes. "Once Bitten is Jim Carrey's best film.

i fucking LOVE that movie (and especially love its soundtrack).

[Wretchedest]

I have been racking them up lately:

Dr. Strange was bland, and is evidence the bubble is ready to burst

Guardians 2 was plodding and bloated.

Wonder Woman was still loaded with sexist tropes and was otherwise really really by the numbers

[october_midnight]

The Dark Knight overrated? I'd like to know how. Not arguing or anything petty like that...I'd just be interested to hear the argument for that stance!

[Failure]

The Dark Knight overrated? I'd like to know how. Not arguing or anything petty like that...I'd just be interested to hear the argument for that stance!

It was at least 30 minutes too long. The entire Two-Face arc was introduced way too late in the movie. Bale is a horrible Batman. I found the cinematography to be overly dark and the editing to be choppy (especially during action sequences). And generally speaking, the entire production insisted upon itself.

As Peter Griffin would say, "I like the 'Money Pit'".

[october_midnight]

Fair enough!!!

[Wretchedest]

I actually also think the dark knight is overrated and i blame basically everything after Rachel dies. Handling of two face was horrible. The boat thing is ppainfully awful. It sinks the movie.

Some people think this though. I also think the last third of Logan is ppretty awful. Once they visit the family with the ranch the whole mobie becomes a shitshow.

[niggo]

The Dark Knight is one of my favorite movies, although I can see what people may not like about it. I agree that the boat thing is not necessarily great and there are many other things that aren't perfect. I just like Nolan's vision, directing and storytelling so much that those negative points barely change my opinion about the film itself. Same goes for Inception, which has also HUGE problems, but when the credits roll I'm still sitting there in complete awe.

I also absolutely adore Batman Begins, which in my opinion has one of the most epic and emotional scenes of any Batman movie: the training sequence (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiaRYQlsjy4) with Ra's Al Ghul. A masterpiece in every way.

You can't really compare Batman Begins with The Dark Knight because they are completely different films (one being a fairly dark superhero origin movie and the other a thriller in a superhero setting), but I really love both of them equally. Unfortunately I was completely underwhelmed by the The Dark Knight Rises, which similar to the Pirates sequels fails to trigger me emotionally. TDKR at least tried, but I remember there was just something off about it. Didn't seem as sincere as the first two.

[marodi]

Con Air is fantastically awesome.

HATERS GONNA HATE.

[eversonpoe]

Con Air is fantastically awesome.

HATERS GONNA HATE.

http://i.imgur.com/EaXaVpN.gif

[AndItKeepsRepeating]

...I don't get why people love Star Wars so much.

[WorzelG]

The Dark Knight is one of my favorite movies, although I can see what people may not like about it. I agree that the boat thing is not necessarily great and there are many other things that aren't perfect. I just like Nolan's vision, directing and storytelling so much that those negative points barely change my opinion about the film itself. Same goes for Inception, which has also HUGE problems, but when the credits roll I'm still sitting there in complete awe.

I also absolutely adore Batman Begins, which in my opinion has one of the most epic and emotional scenes of any Batman movie: the training sequence (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiaRYQlsjy4) with Ra's Al Ghul. A masterpiece in every way.

You can't really compare Batman Begins with The Dark Knight because they are completely different films (one being a fairly dark superhero origin movie and the other a thriller in a superhero setting), but I really love both of them equally. Unfortunately I was completely underwhelmed by the The Dark Knight Rises, which similar to the Pirates sequels fails to trigger me emotionally. TDKR at least tried, but I remember there was just something off about it. Didn't seem as sincere as the first two.
The Dark Knight got 94% on Rotten Tomatoes and was unbelievably overrated and overhyped. I did not enjoy it and Batmans ridiculous voice kept taking me out of the film as I thought it laughable which is an actual controversial opinion surely?

[Failure]

...I don't get why people love Star Wars so much.

I am proud to say that I've never actually watched Star Wars (or any of the sequels/prequels). Like, not even for a second. It all looks very unappealing and I'm sure I'd hate it.

[Shadaloo]

Fuck every Pirates movie made after the second one, won't watch any more
Fuck every single Michael Bay transformers film after the first
Jurassic World fucking sucked
Terminator 3 sucked
Terminator Salvation sucked
Terminator Genisys probably sucked, I didn't watch it
Alien Resurrection is nothing less than punishment from cruel unknowable gods
Prometheus was fucking garbage
Alien Covenant is Prometheus 2 and is also fucking dogshit
Fuck AvP and fuck AvP2
Not one of the fucking Mummy movies was any good or in any way memorable
Fuck the people who want to make Beetlejuice 2
Fuck the fetid walking piles of human dogshit who consider the fucking NOTION of Labyrinth fucking goddamned Two
Fuck the Hobbit films
Fuck this
Fuck that
Fuck everything
It's all dogshit
fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

Predators was kinda good actually

[r_z]

The Dark Knight got 94% on Rotten Tomatoes and was unbelievably overrated and overhyped. I did not enjoy it and Batmans ridiculous voice kept taking me out of the film as I thought it laughable which is an actual controversial opinion surely?
Co-signing this. TDK was all style above substance. Which is fine for a superhero movie, but Nolan's gritty and oh so "realistic" take on the franchise fell flat on its face, in my opinion.
Those films acted like sequels or relatives to films like Heat or L.A. Confidential in terms of scope and narrative, but what they actually did, was randomly glue-ing together action and drama scenes in a way that made those films 2 hour long trailers with messed up scripts full of plotholes.
Nolan seems to be a hybrid of Kubrick and Michael Bay.:D

[Substance242]

The Accountant (2016): stupid.
John Wick 2 (2017): incredibly, unbelievably stupid.

[Dr Channard]

As a franchise Star Trek has lost its way, real bad. Paramount has mishandled the motion picture franchise, certainly so with the soft reboot Abramsverse films, but the problems go back even further to the nextgen films being generally meandering and/or unnecessary when looked at in context with the nextgen TV series. Also Paramount/CBS was showing signs of faltering with Voyager which while generally good it was certainly not on par with the best of TNG or DS9, but they finally dropped the ball completely with Enterprise which was a series concept nobody was really asking for anyway. The poor ratings and ultimate cancellation are it’s real legacy. It doesn’t feel like Star Trek: Discovery is going to be the franchise savior. It sounds like there have been considerable production issues, and that its being relegated to CBS All Access makes me question how much CBS even believes in it.

[eversonpoe]

As a franchise Star Trek has lost its way, real bad. Paramount has mishandled the motion picture franchise, certainly so with the soft reboot Abramsverse films, but the problems go back even further to the nextgen films being generally meandering and/or unnecessary when looked at in context with the nextgen TV series. Also Paramount/CBS was showing signs of faltering with Voyager which while generally good it was certainly not on par with the best of TNG or DS9, but they finally dropped the ball completely with Enterprise which was a series concept nobody was really asking for anyway. The poor ratings and ultimate cancellation are it’s real legacy. It doesn’t feel like Star Trek: Discovery is going to be the franchise savior. It sounds like there have been considerable production issues, and that its being relegated to CBS All Access makes me question how much CBS even believes in it.

i'm also REALLY confused because i thought Discovery was taking place in the prime star trek universe and it looks 100% abrams. what's up with that?

[Dr Channard]

i'm also REALLY confused because i thought Discovery was taking place in the prime star trek universe and it looks 100% abrams. what's up with that?

Sorry to nerdrage here, but…

The visuals in the trailer are confusing. Tagline puts events of Discovery just 10 years prior to TOS supposedly in the prime timeline(?). But the aesthetics in the trailer don’t seem to fit that at all. Bridge looks generally dimly lit like a seedy lounge with bizarre lighting angles. It looks like Quark should be running a dabo tournament in this room.

http://i66.tinypic.com/t0jbd3.jpg

The uniforms look way more connected to Enterprise era than to TOS. Plus if this is supposedly set in prime universe then we already have a reference to what the Starfleet uniform should look like around 10 years before the Kirk five year mission on the enterprise. “The Cage” episode takes place in that timeframe and the uniforms look like this,

http://i68.tinypic.com/n4h1ye.jpg

http://i65.tinypic.com/6rmxbo.jpg

And if those are supposed to be Klingons in the trailer… why?

[r_z]

The tendency in social media and seemingly a lot of movie blogging sites and/or critics to rate movies/tv shows on their level of "wokeness" is really getting tiresome to me.

As a reader of those and a film enthusiast there are only so much "takes" on why a tv show "has a race/woman/rape problem" or why a new movie offers a certain type of story or heroine "we need now" I can take (see the "controversy" about Blade Runner 2049 from last year for example).
Same goes for all that hyperbole of "groundbreaking", "powerful", "revolutionary" and so on. Those are not terms to be thrown around so likely... like being applied to, say, a fucking superhero movie with a half naked model flying around in a mess of a story. Let it be what it is and not try to turn something so banal into Schindler's List.

That's not to say it's wrong to call out art that's truly problematic. But let's not get carried away with the hysteria, please.

[marodi]

Constantine (the movie) is not nearly as bad as a lot of people say it is. Sure, Keanu's voice is monotone throughout but I think it's due to Constantine's blazé attitude. Shia LeBeouf is a hoot as Chas, proving he is talented despite the awful Transformers movies.

And my darling Tilda can do no wrong.

[Sister Midnight]

Constantine (the movie) is not nearly as bad as a lot of people say it is. Sure, Keanu's voice is monotone throughout but I think it's due to Constantine's blazé attitude. Shia LeBeouf is a hoot as Chas, proving he is talented despite the awful Transformers movies.

And my darling Tilda can do no wrong.


http://img.morphthing.com/i/10452128/2/0/3552e07b/Conan-OBrien--Tilda-Swinton.jpeg

I forgot Conan O'Brien was in that.

[Wretchedest]

In a broad sense: (X-Men Movies and Shows) > MCU

[Haysey_Draws]

American Hustle, the films everyone was going mad over how good it was a few years back, was the dullest film i've ever seen in cinema's. It was just an excuse for great actors to act great...the story was just SO BORING!

...but that's just me.

[dlb]

Watched it again yesterday and no, Logan was a mediocre movie. I can't believe how overly invested people become with an X-Men movie. While it indeed switches up the formula a bit and plays more on the emotional side combining it with an R-Rating it only shines that bright because it follows movies that didn't even try to deliver the matter in a serious way. So while that movie was the best we've seen from Wolverine in the cinematic universe together with the last scene of Apocalypse and parts of Days of Future's Past, this movie gives nothing to me, it's proposed depth is rather shallow compared to other critically acclaimed movies and hype is surreal.

With that being said, the overthinking that goes on with comic book movies these days just baffles me. They are essentially kids movies or aimed at a fan audience while being approachably by casual enthusiasts as well. But please stop making these movies seem like there's more to it other than fun, furious action, copious amounts of (mostly well done) CGI and some A-list actors involved. It's a roller coaster ride, sometimes a really entertaining one, but as r_z pointed out no Schindler's List.

[dlb]

On another note: can Alicia Vikander please disappear? Thank you.

[bobbie solo]

On another note: can Alicia Vikander please disappear? Thank you.

you should see Ex Machina & The Danish Girl before saying that.

[dlb]

I have and while I very much enjoyed the former I still can't stand her at all. One of the few actresses/actors I truly avoid.

[BRoswell]

I liked Blade Runner 2049 more than the original.

[Deepvoid]

American Hustle, the films everyone was going mad over how good it was a few years back, was the dullest film i've ever seen in cinema's. It was just an excuse for great actors to act great...the story was just SO BORING!

...but that's just me.

I second that opinion. That was movie was pretty dull.

[implanted_microchip]

The way the last act of Logan played out made the whole thing less than it could have been for me. It trades in all of its seriousness and sense of modern grit for the silly theatrics of the older X-Men movies and it suffers heavily for it -- the tonal shift is too huge.

Mother! was as heavy-handed and obvious in its symbolism as everybody says it is, but it's still a fantastic movie. The whole last forty minutes are the best kind of insane and the fact that a major studio treated it like a guaranteed blockbuster is fascinating.

The Exorcist isn't remotely scary to me, whatsoever, and I fully understand the historical context and innovation and impact of it, but it didn't make me enjoy it. I've never had any connection to Catholicism so maybe that's part of my lack of terror over it but I also don't believe in xenomorphs or the devil and I was still scared by Alien and Rosemary's Baby, so I don't know.

Don't Breathe was dull as fuck.

Whether or not a director is a bad person has no impact on my ability to enjoy a movie. There are often hundreds of people who work on any given movie and plenty of them have major impact on the finished project, and I'm sure plenty of those people are horrible, but it isn't stopping people from enjoying those movies. I haven't seen anybody saying they're going to never watch True Lies again even though we found out the stunt coordinator was a creep, and that movie is loaded with stunts. I'm all for not wanting to financially support bad people but to condemn the collaborative work of dozens-to-hundreds all because one person involved was a piece of garbage punishes all of the decent people who worked hard on something and had the misfortune of having a terrible person for a coworker.

The only reason Ridley Scott is taken so seriously is because of his younger successes and his ability to make professional-quality studio movies quickly and within budget. He hasn't made any great art in over a decade. The Martian was fun popcorn pop music and Prometheus has interesting ideas that it does nothing decent with.

Auteur theory is outdated and insulting to all of the people that make movies what they are. Editors, casting directors, costume designers, audio engineers, cinematographers, actors and set designers all have as important an impact on most movies as individual directors or screenwriters have. It's also dumb to judge a screenwriter who isn't a director off of the resulting movie -- read any early draft of a screenplay and then a finished film and you'll see something wildly different most of the time. Screenplays are usually guidelines instead of perfect blueprints and get changed enormously due to budgetary, scheduling and other constraints and the writer can have little to do with it the moment it's sold off to a studio. The fact that Roger Deakins and Emmanuel Lubezki are the only two cinematographers known by name by a lot of film fans is depressing and I'm as bad about it as anybody else -- directors get way too much credit for cinematography a lot of the time and editors are horrifically unsung. Tarantino's last two movies were drastically lower quality than any of his others and a big part of why is the death of his lifelong editor. The sense of focus, pacing and overall flow in Inglourious Basterds vs. Django Unchained is enormously different and one is clearly more smoothly put together than the other.

On that note, Tarantino isn't as amazing as his fanboys act like he is and he's not as terrible as the people who hate him act like he is. He's not god-awful but he isn't flawless. Nuanced opinions have become unwanted in the world of film discussion and it's a shame because you either have to absolutely adore everything or absolutely loathe everything about a movie and there's little wiggle room allowed. Almost everything is flawed in some way and to act like acknowledging those flaws is to call a movie terrible is ridiculous and reductive and leads to flaws being applauded out of bizarre defensiveness.

Absolutely no good has come from the endless slap-fighting about The Last Jedi

[r_z]

The only reason Ridley Scott is taken so seriously is because of his younger successes and his ability to make professional-quality studio movies quickly and within budget. He hasn't made any great art in over a decade.
I raise you The Counselor. A criminally underrated movie.

[SM Rollinger]

Quentin Tarantino is seriously overrated.

Christopher Nolan too.

[Mantra]

I'm getting so tired of franchises. Pretty much all of them, even Star Wars. There's just something exhausting about them, like if I get into one of them it means I gotta sign up to watch another 17 fucking movies.

I recognize that this isn't really rational. I have no problem with TV shows, which might literally add up to the same length of time, so I don't understand why I feel this way.

There's just something that feels so off-putting about them, like I'm getting enrolled in a fucking program. I'm getting to the point when I see some big unveiling of a new franchise trailer that I just let out a big long groan of exhaustion.

It's probably just because I'm becoming really grouchy and old.

[Sutekh]

I cannot stand all these superhero movies which look and feel like video games. The massive dragon ball z cgi fights just leave me numb. Why are we so preoccupied with characters made for kids? It is seriously like a year or two of reading age above teletubbies

I'm not saying we should only watch black and white French dramas and kill ourselves, a bit of fluff is fine and there's a lot of superhero movies I like (crow, some of the batman films, blade), but there are SO many of them and people love and hype them so much... I feel like a space alien

[eversonpoe]

I cannot stand all these superhero movies which look and feel like video games. The massive dragon ball z cgi fights just leave me numb. Why are we so preoccupied with characters made for kids? It is seriously like a year or two of reading age above teletubbies

I'm not saying we should only watch black and white French dramas and kill ourselves, a bit of fluff is fine and there's a lot of superhero movies I like (crow, some of the batman films, blade), but there are SO many of them and people love and hype them so much... I feel like a space alien

why do you feel like they're "made for kids"? i don't feel that way at all.

[Sutekh]

why do you feel like they're "made for kids"? i don't feel that way at all.

The comic book characters were, but the films aren't. That's what I find odd. Rather than just being children's films, they are sort of darkened and hardened a bit. But nonethless, they are what they are. The hulk, Spiderman etc... are in the same drawer as Scooby doo for me.

The current crop of these movies feels as strange to me as a straight up horror movie of Scooby doo would

[Shunt]

I cannot stand all these superhero movies which look and feel like video games. The massive dragon ball z cgi fights just leave me numb. Why are we so preoccupied with characters made for kids? It is seriously like a year or two of reading age above teletubbies

I'm not saying we should only watch black and white French dramas and kill ourselves, a bit of fluff is fine and there's a lot of superhero movies I like (crow, some of the batman films, blade), but there are SO many of them and people love and hype them so much... I feel like a space alien

It's obvious you haven't read a superhero comic-book in the last 40 years or so. They are absolutely not intended for children and the movie adaptations are actually more childish than the source material.

[Haysey_Draws]

I agree Superhero Comic's were originally created for kids, they haven't been aimed at 'kids' for a very very long time. Hell when i was growing up even Sonic the Comic was going for a teen and older audience! And a lot of the hype from people for the films are coming from people that grew up with the characters, and are just excited to see them on the big screen.
Also i'd agree most of the films are far more family friendly then the comics. Nothing wrong with not being into the current comic book movie hype machine, all the power to you, but writing them off as stuff 'made for kids' is the wrong argument i feel.

[dvp]

The hulk, Spiderman etc... are in the same drawer as Scooby doo for me.
Thats cool, I get it. I group Pepa Pig and Cowboy Bebop together because they are both cartoons.

[Sutekh]

You can't really refute a bad comparison by making a bad comparison... peppa pig is for kids, bebop is for adults. Hulk and spiderman were not created for adults, were they?


It's obvious you haven't read a superhero comic-book in the last 40 years or so. They are absolutely not intended for children and the movie adaptations are actually more childish than the source material.


I've read all the Frank Miller batman stuff - fair play that's not for kids. But we've never really got a faithful live action of any of them. Last spiderman I read was ultimate Spiderman about 13 years ago, Last hulks I read were planet hulk and world war hulk. Sorry but that stuff is for kids, or teenagers at most.


Ice haven, mox nox, black hole, the invisibles, spawn, the crow, Alan Moore books etc are what I would call adult fiction

I'm not saying it's morally wrong (although there is a whiff of protraction about it), I'm just a bit alienated by how huge and constant it is

[Swykk]

Yep, I still want to fight just about everyone in this thread years later.

Also, every post Nolan DC movie is abysmal garbage except Wonder Woman.

[Sutekh]

Yes, batman vs superman and suicide squad were two of the worst films I have ever seen. But is that controversial?

I actually think the 89 batman has aged badly. Returns is the superior film... and apparently it's quite unpopular? The internet is an eye opener

[Vertigo]

Been a little while, but have never enjoyed Returns. Michelle Pfeiffer is fantastic, but the film's focus is almost entirely on Penguin. Bruce hardly gets a look in, and with Penguin being portrayed as a grotesque with a love/hate relationship with the public, and some seriously ludicrous flights of fantasy, the film basically feels like Tim Burton is wanking over the screen for two hours. It makes me feel a bit queasy.

[Sutekh]

It's absolutely that... It's almost false advertising to call it a batman film. I'm not sure whether it's because they're actually good or because I grew up with them, but pre mars attacks tim Burton films have an atmosphere I can really get lost in

Everything after that... either tepid or actually bad. Cringeworthy mall goth stuff

[r_z]

Batman Returns is actually the best Batman movie there is.

[Space Suicide]

Batman Returns is actually the best Batman movie there is.

It's easily the best and funnest where it doesn't require thinking. Objectively I still think The Dark Knight is the pinnacle of all live action Batman films but Batman Returns is the shit. It's so dark with a lot of originality and enthusiasm. People hated the Penguin portrayal (not Devito) since it didn't match the rich kingpin crime lord but rather a scummy mutated freak who was literally raised by penguins. It was an awesome reimagining.

Also this is THE BEST Catwoman (and outfit) on screen appearance to me of any portrayal, even over Julie Newmar and Eartha Kitt. I HATE Hatahway's portrayal and outfit. She was easily one of the worst parts of The Dark Knight Rises.

[Shunt]

You can't really refute a bad comparison by making a bad comparison... peppa pig is for kids, bebop is for adults. Hulk and spiderman were not created for adults, were they?




I've read all the Frank Miller batman stuff - fair play that's not for kids. But we've never really got a faithful live action of any of them. Last spiderman I read was ultimate Spiderman about 13 years ago, Last hulks I read were planet hulk and world war hulk. Sorry but that stuff is for kids, or teenagers at most.


Ice haven, mox nox, black hole, the invisibles, spawn, the crow, Alan Moore books etc are what I would call adult fiction

I'm not saying it's morally wrong (although there is a whiff of protraction about it), I'm just a bit alienated by how huge and constant it is

No, it isn't.

Spider-Man wasn't exactly created for adults, but neither was it for kids. It's target audience was mainly teenagers. Yep, the same age group that in the 90s gets into NIN and rock music.

And I guess you haven't read Kraven's Last Hunt, from the main Spider-Man storyline.

You have a point in that most movie adaptations are somewhat more chidish, as I said myself. But going all the way to say that the source material is just for kids is simply wrong.

[Sutekh]

Very well, I'm not totally ignorant regarding comics, but im no expert - and clearly you know better.

Nonetheless, even taking what you say into account... I only have to amend my point to say "why the overwhelming obsession with teen fiction" rather than "kid's fiction". The implication being the same (aren't we a bit old for all this).

[Shunt]

But as I pointed out, we still listen to The Downward Spiral or even better, Pretty Hate Machine, even if the feelings expressed there have more to do with teenage angst than with anything else. We still care for them as much as some people care for those superhero characters. It's good music even if it wasn't intended for a middle aged audience at the time, and ina similar way, those characters have been part of some good stories.

There's no denying there are people wanting to take advantage from those people by making one somewhat banal movie after the other, but that's not exactly the point.

[Sutekh]

We do listen to those things, but not all day, and there isn't a mass media conveyor belt shovelling them out seemingly endlessly.

Nothing wrong with a guilty pleasure but the marvel dc thing is starting to feel like having a beer at 11am.

BUT! I am extremely miserable and dry, and yeah probably a little pompous

[Mantra]

I'm not saying we should only watch black and white French dramas and kill ourselves

Well I am.

This is a perfect summary of my beliefs on art and cinema.

[Sutekh]

If it doesn't have artificial eye on the spine, it goes in the bin

[GulDukat]

Batman Returns is actually the best Batman movie there is.Love this movie. My favorite Batman, for sure. It's a shame that Burton and Keaton left after this film as the franchise soon took a nose-dive.

[GulDukat]

Back to the Future III was a better movie than II (which I also enjoyed).

[eversonpoe]

Back to the Future III was a better movie than II (which I also enjoyed).

just watched through the trilogy again with my wife and parents.

i wouldn't necessarily say "better" but i would say they're both equally great. doc being the romantic lead is so unexpected and fun, mad dog is such a great villain, and the old west setting is wonderful. plus there's so many great gags that were built up to by the first two films, and the payoff is amazing.

[elevenism]

just watched through the trilogy again with my wife and parents.

i wouldn't necessarily say "better" but i would say they're both equally great. doc being the romantic lead is so unexpected and fun, mad dog is such a great villain, and the old west setting is wonderful. plus there's so many great gags that were built up to by the first two films, and the payoff is amazing.good GOD, I fucking adore those movies, 3 included. They were a couple of my first thrilling theater experiences

[GulDukat]

I enjoyed Back to the Future II. I especially enjoyed the segment where they go to the alternative 1985, where Biff (based on Trump), runs Hill Valley. I thought the movie was good, but maybe a little jarring, it goes from 1985 to 2015, to alt. 1985 to 1955 and the story seems a little frantic. I prefer the straightforward, simple story of III (like the original, they just need to go back to 1985). I love the Western setting, loved Thomas Wilson as Mad Dog Buchanan (and found Griff Buchanan from II to be way over-the-top), and I liked Steenburgen's performance and romance with Doc, which I found to be sweet, if somewhat rushed.

Wasn't crazy about the ending, with the flying time machine train. Would have been better had Marty had just looked at the town records and read that Doc and Claire go married, had kids and lived out their lives in the past. Seemed odd for Doc to build yet another time machine considering he asked Marty to destroy the DeLorean.

[eversonpoe]

Wasn't crazy about the ending

http://t1.daumcdn.net/liveboard/movie/292dbf2b9eaf4d3c8f78b323048b4228.jpg

you mean you don't like seeing the kid on the right making that face and scratching his crotch with his finger? :p

[theruiner]

Back to the Future III was a better movie than II (which I also enjoyed).
I thought I was the only one!

Look, I love all three. LOVE. Love love love. The first one is my favorite movie of all time and BTTF is my favorite trilogy of all time, so all the movies are great. But the first one is the best, followed by three, followed by two. While I love that they went super dark with the second one (not what you'd expect after the first movie) the third just felt so much closer in tone to that first one. It was fun and it had a sense of adventure, which was lacking in the second. To be those two fit so well together, the second, while great, is the odd one out of the bunch.


Wasn't crazy about the ending
You're dead to me.

[GulDukat]

I thought I was the only one!

Look, I love all three. LOVE. Love love love. The first one is my favorite movie of all time and BTTF is my favorite trilogy of all time, so all the movies are great. But the first one is the best, followed by three, followed by two. While I love that they went super dark with the second one (not what you'd expect after the first movie) the third just felt so much closer in tone to that first one. It was fun and it had a sense of adventure, which was lacking in the second. To be those two fit so well together, the second, while great, is the odd one out of the bunch.


You're dead to me.Like I said, I would have ended it with Doc and Clara spending the rest of their days in the Old West, with maybe Doc sending another letter, telling Marty that the future was open and unwritten. Would have been less fantastic and more somber, but a better ending, IMHO. Also, I think Crispen Glover's absence from II and III sort of hurt those movies. They did a good job, the best they could, working around him, but they would have been better with his involvement. Glover playing Shamus instead of Fox would have been preferable. Fun fact: Ronald Reagan was approached to play the part of the Hill Valley mayor in Back to the Future III.

[elevenism]

Yep, I still want to fight just about everyone in this thread years later.

Also, every post Nolan DC movie is abysmal garbage except Wonder Woman.
I...liked BvS? I didn't know I wasn't supposed to like it till I read the internet.

[Swykk]

“Martha”

Really? That’s how you wrote that?! Surely this among the abundance of this film’s flaws will be universally ridiculed. Let me just look...

Oh god. No. No! NOOOOOOOOOOO

[joplinpicasso]

WB should have gone all in on Snyder's vision for the Superman arc. They half-assed it and everyone suffers.

[GulDukat]

The last good Superman movie was Superman II. But even III and IV were better than Returns and MOS.

[r_z]

Superman Returns is very underrated, actually.

[elevenism]

I mean Batman vs Superman damn sure wasn't GREAT. But I didn't hate it.
I thought Man of Steel and Return were alright too.

[thevoid99]

Superman Returns is very underrated, actually.

Same here. In fact, it reminded me of why I loved those first 2 Superman movies. I still would've love to see what Tim Burton and Nicolas Cage would've done with Superman Lives.

[ricardo]

I like Man of Steel and the ultimate cut of BvS. They are much better than Wonder Woman which I sincerely don't know what the fuss is about. DCEU should've kept it's dark and serious tone, I loved it. Justice League and SS are horrible. WW is cool and I feel Aquaman is gonna be equally as cool. But I still prefer the first two. Cavil is perfect as Superman and he loves the character so much. I heard he's working hard to get a MOS sequel and he certainly deserves it. One of the coolest actors out there.

[AThousandDaysBefore]

Bvs is in my top 5 with American History x, Into the wild, Intouchables, who flew over the cuckoo's nest :eek:

[Boots]

I really hate This Is Us AKA the cheesiest, most maudlin show on tv. Mandy Moore is average looking and a very unimpressive actress. That woman who plays Kate is as big as a house. Holy smokes!! I never cared for Milo either even when he was on Heroes. He just seems like a Stallone wannabe.

[eversonpoe]

That woman who plays Kate is as big as a house.

cool, now you're fat-shaming! really moving up in the world.

[october_midnight]

Not very controversial, I guess....but The Warriors. It's a cult classic. The premise and whole nostalgia around it is great. I think of The Warriors and think 'man, all the costumes are great. the baseball furies? awesome.' The idea of a group needing to get from A to B has a whole Judgement Night vibe...it could be this crazy good thriller.

The movie sucks so incredibly hard.

[eversonpoe]

Not very controversial, I guess....but The Warriors. It's a cult classic. The premise and whole nostalgia around it is great. I think of The Warriors and think 'man, all the costumes are great. the baseball furies? awesome.' The idea of a group needing to get from A to B has a whole Judgement Night vibe...it could be this crazy good thriller.

The movie sucks so incredibly hard.

i've never seen it because i've always been afraid of having a negative reaction to it despite its high regard in the movie world.

[hellospaceboy]

I saw Happytime Murders last week and absolutely loved it!!!! Now this shouldn't be a controversial opinion, but for some reason critics and audiences both hated it :(
I thought it was a really good spoof of the 80's "private eye in L.A." noir movies, and the puppet world is very well thought out and funny! Also, it has the best on-screen sex shop ever!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eks8LG72uo

[Louie_Cypher]

some movies are better seeing later streamed than first run in the theater. I found alien the covent was better after seeing reviews and expositions i guess let other people do the heavy lifting.
-Louie

[WorzelG]

I started to watch La La Land a while back and was so irritated by the opening musical performance I switched it off after 5 minutes

[maniac]

Seems pretty controversial to a lot of people that i never cared to watch The big Lebowsky ,i saw the trailer and it just didnt seem that great so i never watched it

[eversonpoe]

Seems pretty controversial to a lot of people that i never cared to watch The big Lebowsky ,i saw the trailer and it just didnt seem that great so i never watched it

i had never seen it until a couple years ago when my wife showed it to me. it's her sister's favorite movie (which is unendingly hilarious to me) and it's a lot of wacky fun. the coen brothers always make films that are well done, it just comes down to a matter of taste whether or not you like it.

[WorzelG]

I was bored to fuck by Boogie Nights, it just seemed to go on and on and on. I don’t even remember the plot at all except it was something to do with porn and they got mixed up in something else. I checked the running time and it was 2hrs 36 ? Why??? I’m sure a lot of the rave reviews were to do with Heather Graham’s minge.

going back to La La Land, Damian Chazelle should consider himself fucking lucky his love letter to Hollywood didn’t come out a year later

[GulDukat]

Cal was really the good guy in Titanic. He offered Rose financial stability and put up with her brattiness. He did yell at her and flipped the table, ordered her food without asking and was possessive. But this movie is set in 1912 and he was a man of his time. Jack was just a bum and Rose was a dumb 17 year old who fell for "the bad boy." Rose winds up having a happy life and Cal shoots himself after losing his fortune, but only because the script has to make it turn out like that, given we are supposed to believe that Jack is the hero and Cal the villain.

Some good points.
https://bestlifeonline.com/4-reasons-rose-stayed-cal-titanic/

[eversonpoe]

Cal was really the good guy in Titanic. He offered Rose financial stability and put up with her brattiness. He did yell at her and flipped the table, ordered her food without asking and was possessive. But this movie is set in 1912 and he was a man of his time. Jack was just a bum and Rose was a dumb 17 year old who fell for "the bad boy." Rose winds up having a happy life and Cal shoots himself after losing his fortune, but only because the script has to make it turn out like that, given we are supposed to believe that Jack is the hero and Cal the villain.

Some good points.
https://bestlifeonline.com/4-reasons-rose-stayed-cal-titanic/

seriously? he was a misogynist asshole who stole a lifeboat from a family

[GulDukat]

seriously? he was a misogynist asshole who stole a lifeboat from a familyWatching it now for the first time in 20 years. I don't remember stealing a lifeboat, just picking up a random kid so he could get in a lifeboat.

[GulDukat]

seriously? he was a misogynist asshole who stole a lifeboat from a familyYeah, rewatching it now (in segments). Cal actually was a bastard. I didn't remember a lot of the movie.

[october_midnight]

Eyes Wide Shut is a masterpiece.

[eversonpoe]

Eyes Wide Shut is a masterpiece.

never saw it!

[MrLobster]

Channing Tatum is the Emilio Estevez of this generation.

Whether this is positive or negative is up to you.

[eversonpoe]

Channing Tatum is the Emilio Estevez of this generation.

Whether this is positive or negative is up to you.

i would say he's more versatile, and has a better sense of humor about himself.

[MrLobster]

i would say he's more versatile, and has a better sense of humor about himself.

Sure, I'll go with that. In my head, I can see them doing each others roles (including tap-dancing in Hail Caesar! for Estevez and "I'll make ya famous"​ for Tate in Young Guns)

[GulDukat]

Dazed and Confused and especially Can't Hardly Wait weren't that good.

SPECTRE was awesome, as good as Casino Royale and Skyfall.

[eversonpoe]

Dazed and Confused and especially Can't Hardly Wait weren't that good.

SPECTRE was awesome, as good as Casino Royale and Skyfall.

can't hardly wait is totally underrated. and i'm not just saying that because it's spoken in the directors' follow-up, josie & the pussycats (which is also phenomenal)

[GulDukat]

can't hardly wait is totally underrated. and i'm not just saying that because it's spoken in the directors' follow-up, josie & the pussycats (which is also phenomenal)I hated that movie. The thing with the letter? FFS, was that a rejected storyline from Saved by the Bell? The clichéd characters, dumb teen melodrama, sucked.

[artdeco]

Eyes Wide Shut is a masterpiece.

Hell yes it is. Glad I'm not the only one who thinks it's one of Kubrick's very best.

[bobbie solo]

I hated that movie. The thing with the letter? FFS, was that a rejected storyline from Saved by the Bell? The clichéd characters, dumb teen melodrama, sucked.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoSuBAqgHNA&ab_channel=Senpai1983

[GulDukat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoSuBAqgHNA&ab_channel=Senpai1983

Things wrong with that scene:

1. They don't look like high school kids.
2. People wouldn't be crowded around the two people, hanging on every word like that.
3. High School parties like this only exist in the movies.
4. Not funny, not even a little bit.
5. So she finds the letter and suddenly they have a budding romance, even though they hardly know each other and are going off to different school where they will meet other people.
6. A letter? A letter makes her fall for him?
7. The police would have been called 30 minutes into this high school party.

[bobbie solo]

i hear you but who cares! its a dumb movie. Youre not wrong , but dont let CHW get u so tight, its not worth it!

[Haysey_Draws]

Whilst this might not sound controversial to some, Animated films (Drawing, CG and Stop motion) are LEGITIMATE ART FORMS AND LEGITIMATE FILMS IN THEIR OWN RIGHT! Just because most are aimed at children (with varying degrees of quantity) doesn't mean they should all be ignored for simply being animated.

The amount of people in my life who have shot down animated films to me is staggering, and one of them was my fucking art teacher!

[eversonpoe]

i have never seen a gaspar noe film, and i will never see one. i have read the synopses of all of them, i've read articles and reviews about them, and for the life of me, i cannot understand why anyone would subject themselves to such horrific films. i feel like there's nothing redeeming in them. no likable characters, no good stories, no true message of any kind. i know that the visuals in his newer films are supposed to be stunning, but aside from that, i can't think of a good reason to watch his work.

[BRoswell]

i have never seen a gaspar noe film, and i will never see one. i have read the synopses of all of them, i've read articles and reviews about them, and for the life of me, i cannot understand why anyone would subject themselves to such horrific films. i feel like there's nothing redeeming in them. no likable characters, no good stories, no true message of any kind. i know that the visuals in his newer films are supposed to be stunning, but aside from that, i can't think of a good reason to watch his work.

Stories aren't always about likable characters and redemption and "the message" though. If that's all you're interested in, cool, but that's only a portion of the stories that can be told. I haven't liked every film Noe has done, but I respect that he's not interested in black and white, good guys and bad guys storytelling. I'm not opposed to that kind of storytelling, but it's not something I can solely subsist on. After a while, that sort of thing starts to feel fake. As wild as his films can be, they're incredibly grounded in human behavior and the choices/mistakes people make.

And reality is way more horrific than anything in his films.

[Swykk]

i have never seen a gaspar noe film, and i will never see one. i have read the synopses of all of them, i've read articles and reviews about them, and for the life of me, i cannot understand why anyone would subject themselves to such horrific films. i feel like there's nothing redeeming in them. no likable characters, no good stories, no true message of any kind. i know that the visuals in his newer films are supposed to be stunning, but aside from that, i can't think of a good reason to watch his work.

You aren’t missing anything. Don’t see also: Lars Von Trier.

[bobbie solo]

You aren’t missing anything. Don’t see also: Lars Von Trier.

Oh man. I feel like he's made some good movies mixed in with the shit stuff you're probably thinking of. Not always easy watches of course, but Dancer in the Dark & Melancholia (part. the latter) are def. worth watching. I thought Melancholia was really well done. Even Nymphomaniac is a decent movie but with flaws. Not a good person irl or on set, but has made some good movies.

Only Noe film I've seen was Irreversible. It was very hard to watch, multiple people left the theater, etc. But I've never seen anything like that movie. It has stuck with me ever since. Worth seeing for sure b/c its a uniquely horrifying movie, and the visuals are stunning as said.

[BRoswell]

Oh man. I feel like he's made some good movies mixed in with the shit stuff you're probably thinking of. Not always easy watches of course, but Dancer in the Dark & Melancholia (part. the latter) are def. worth watching. I thought Melancholia was really well done.

Agreed. Melancholia in particular was quite good. I went into it knowing next to nothing about the plot and was very pleasantly surprised.


Only Noe film I've seen was Irreversible. It was very hard to watch, multiple people left the theater, etc. But I've never seen anything like that movie. It has stuck with me ever since. Worth seeing for sure b/c its a uniquely horrifying movie, and the visuals are stunning as said.

Yeah, Irreversible is not for the faint of heart, but it's not really meant to be a passive experience. Everything about the film (and all of Noe's films) is designed to provoke, including the music and the cinematography. Some people just aren't looking for that kind of experience.

[eversonpoe]

Stories aren't always about likable characters and redemption and "the message" though. If that's all you're interested in, cool, but that's only a portion of the stories that can be told. I haven't liked every film Noe has done, but I respect that he's not interested in black and white, good guys and bad guys storytelling. I'm not opposed to that kind of storytelling, but it's not something I can solely subsist on. After a while, that sort of thing starts to feel fake. As wild as his films can be, they're incredibly grounded in human behavior and the choices/mistakes people make.

And reality is way more horrific than anything in his films.

i don't think that's quite what i meant...i'm fine with provocation, fine with studies of human behavior, and i'm fine with a lack of black & white / good people & bad people. i'm also more than fine with discomfort & heavy subject matter. i'm a huge david lynch fan, my favorite show is hannibal, and i've read plenty of books that are along the lines of what we're talking about. but something about noe's films (from what i have gleaned) makes me extremely uncomfortable, but not in an intriguing way, just in a way that makes me feel disgusted.

[BRoswell]

i don't think that's quite what i meant...i'm fine with provocation, fine with studies of human behavior, and i'm fine with a lack of black & white / good people & bad people. i'm also more than fine with discomfort & heavy subject matter. i'm a huge david lynch fan, my favorite show is hannibal, and i've read plenty of books that are along the lines of what we're talking about. but something about noe's films (from what i have gleaned) makes me extremely uncomfortable, but not in an intriguing way, just in a way that makes me feel disgusted.

If you're into all that, then I don't really see why his films would be so hard to stomach.

[eversonpoe]

If you're into all that, then I don't really see why his films would be so hard to stomach.

right? idunno.

anyway, no judgement at all on anyone who enjoys (is that the right word?) his films! glad we got to discuss this a bit because i don't know anyone in real life who has seen any of his work.

[Jinsai]

i have never seen a gaspar noe film, and i will never see one. i have read the synopses of all of them, i've read articles and reviews about them, and for the life of me, i cannot understand why anyone would subject themselves to such horrific films. .

Enter the Void is a trek through some traumatizing realness, and it's one of the better movies I've seen from the past decade.

[BRoswell]

Enter the Void is a trek through some traumatizing realness, and it's one of the better movies I've seen from the past decade.

I'd say Enter The Void, as flawed as it is at times, shows that there's more to his work than just depravity for depravity's sake.

[r_z]

The Watchmen movie is not as bad as its reputation, especially in its "uncut" or "director's cut" forms. The plot might be a bit muddled and hard to follow, but the performances are mostly great, so are the special effects.

Also, I didn't know Roger Ebert gave it 4/4.

[Bachy]

Not only do I feel that Nacho Libre is far superior to Napoleon Dynamite, I also feel the latter was greatly overrated and could never stand that film.

[Magnetic]

I thought it showcased quite a bit of how boring yet random it is growing up in small town/ middle-of-nowhere can be, which I did appreciate. However, I still agree it's highly overrated.

[onthewall2983]

Yeah, rewatching it now (in segments). Cal actually was a bastard. I didn't remember a lot of the movie.

Never knew why the film needed a villain, unless it was to make Leo that much more the heartthrob. Replace his character with Rose's father who still has conflicts with Jack, but is more heroic towards the end as the you-know-what sinks.

[WorzelG]

James Cameron went right up his own arse with Titanic in my opinion, I thought the romantic storyline was almost an insult to the people who died, like the story is too boring without this Dicaprio / Winslet shit, if it’s on tv we only put it on half way through, to my mind the most moving thing in the film is when the band plays one more song. I think it should have been done like disaster films of old with the focus on a few main characters
After this, I never saw Avatar and have no interest in it, and now he’s doing about a million Avatar sequels, why??

[Substance242]

1. Star Wars
I wish there was a version without all that infantile beeps and cute animals, very annoying.

2. Witcher
Read all the books, love them. Games - not interested. TV - not interested, looks awful.

[eversonpoe]

1. Star Wars
I wish there was a version without all that infantile beeps and cute animals, very annoying.

but star wars without those things isn't star wars. part of what makes it what it is is its sense of humor and lightheartedness amidst tragedy and other extremely heavy things. is there sometimes too much humor that is shoehorned in? for sure, and mostly in the special editions of a new hope and return of the jedi with all that added bullshit.

if you take the humor out of lord of the rings, it's just any run-of-the-mill fantasy epic. same thing with star wars; it would become a generic fantasy in space.

but that's also just my opinion.

[muad'nin]

I'd say Enter The Void, as flawed as it is at times, shows that there's more to his work than just depravity for depravity's sake.

I re-watched this for the first time in a few years, a few days ago. It is such a stunning film. Beautiful at times. Jarring. Devastating. Unpleasant, as well. Suffice to say, it’s certainly still an emotionally confusing experience for me.

But I’m glad it exists.

Also features Coil and Throbbing Gristle, so yay?

[GulDukat]

Never knew why the film needed a villain, unless it was to make Leo that much more the heartthrob. Replace his character with Rose's father who still has conflicts with Jack, but is more heroic towards the end as the you-know-what sinks.Billy Zane was a great villain for the movie, classic baddie for an over-the-top melodrama. I love Titanic. Yeah, the plot is super predictable and the characters are one-dimensional, but the cast is superb and the movie just looks so good it doesn't matter.

[Ruined]

Agreed. Melancholia in particular was quite good. I went into it knowing next to nothing about the plot and was very pleasantly surprised.



Yeah, Irreversible is not for the faint of heart, but it's not really meant to be a passive experience. Everything about the film (and all of Noe's films) is designed to provoke, including the music and the cinematography. Some people just aren't looking for that kind of experience.
Aside from the visuals, the droning soundscape by Thomas Bangalter was just as disturbing. IDK, it's like he found frequencies that made me physically ill.

[WorzelG]

I’m strangely glad that the director who STOLE the Oscar from David Fincher in 2011 now has a cat-ostrophic flop on his hands. I haven’t seen it but everything I’ve seen of Cats is just hideous and more scary and sinister than clowns - quite a feat

[eversonpoe]

I’m strangely glad that the director who STOLE the Oscar from David Fincher in 2011 now has a cat-ostrophic flop on his hands. I haven’t seen it but everything I’ve seen of Cats is just hideous and more scary and sinister than clowns - quite a feat

1213103314486718464

[WorzelG]

1213103314486718464
ha, yes I saw that in a NIN thread, read it and it inspired this general post about Tom Hooper. I wonder if Cats will become a cult classic because how they persuaded so many famous people to appear in it is beyond me.

[Magnetic]

Thank you for sharing this. I laughed so hard.

[GulDukat]

Godfather III was pretty good.

[SM Rollinger]

Godfather III was pretty good.

It's been a long time since I've seen it, maybe I'll have to go back and give it another shot.

[marodi]

To Live and Die in L.A. > Heat

[fillow]

Of course Godfather III is good. Being not-as-good as I and II doesn't make it bad.

[GulDukat]

Of course Godfather III is good. Being not-as-good as I and II doesn't make it bad.

Love this scene, around the 2:50 mark:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJM8SbR5D7c

[cahernandez]

ha, yes I saw that in a NIN thread, read it and it inspired this general post about Tom Hooper. I wonder if Cats will become a cult classic because how they persuaded so many famous people to appear in it is beyond me.

First things first: Why the hell did you do this?
As a masochistic connoisseur of bad cinema, I knew since the Cats trailer came out that I needed to see this hideous disaster, in a theater, and very high.

https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2020/01/03/a-conversation-with-the-guy-who-took-mushrooms-and-saw-cats

[theimage13]

I don't know if this is actually a controversial opinion or not, but holy fuck was Once Upon A Time in Hollywood boring as all get out. Tried watching it with my dad recently and for the first time in my life he gave up on it part way through and just shrugged. And yet it cleaned up at the awards last night....why??

[GulDukat]

I don't know if this is actually a controversial opinion or not, but holy fuck was Once Upon A Time in Hollywood boring as all get out. Tried watching it with my dad recently and for the first time in my life he gave up on it part way through and just shrugged. And yet it cleaned up at the awards last night....why??
It is a slow burn, but no time was wasted, IMHO. I loved sucking up the visuals, dialog, music, etc. Great film, but I have heard others echo what you say.

[GulDukat]

American Hustle was overrated.

[bobbie solo]

No arugument there. So is Silver Linings Playbook for that matter. In fact, that movie is kinda trash depending how you look at it.

[Haysey_Draws]

American Hustle was overrated.

Agreed! Film full of great actors acting great in a dull DULL movie.

[GulDukat]

Agreed! Film full of great actors acting great in a dull DULL movie.I liked the movie, but it just wasn't THAT great. It was overly long too. There are movies that are longer, like Casino or The Godfather, but every moment is engrossing, American Hustle just seemed to go on and on.

[ryanmcfly]

Forrest Gump is a decent movie, but there are way better Tom Hanks movies.

[onthewall2983]

Brad Pitt was better in Ad Astra than in Once Upon A Time In Hollywood

[r_z]

Starship Troopers is one of the best movies of the 90s.

[eversonpoe]

Starship Troopers is one of the best movies of the 90s.

i agree and i also loved seeing it live with rifftrax. the best riff was "paul verhoeven's: A Bugs Life"

[ryanmcfly]

Hereditary was the one of the most boring horror movie I've ever seen. It did a good job in terms of creating an uneasy atmosphere, and Toni Collette provided a great performance. But the plot, the ending, was nothing special to me. Saw Midsommar also, it was more interesting, but still not that big of a fan of it. I loved it visually though given the fact that it used bright colors as opposed to just being dark the whole time.

[Haysey_Draws]

Starship Troopers is one of the best movies of the 90s.

That's not controversial, that's just fact!

[Substance242]

Watching Roma (2018)... Children of Men and Gravity are just amazing 10/10, but what was this, trying to win "the most boring movie of the year" award?

[bobbie solo]

Watching Roma (2018)... Children of Men and Gravity are just amazing 10/10, but what was this, trying to win "the most boring movie of the year" award?

Yeah I feel you. Roma is a good movie and has some relatively good payoffs later on, but maaaaaaaan it is super slow for most of it.

[BRoswell]

Watching Roma (2018)... Children of Men and Gravity are just amazing 10/10, but what was this, trying to win "the most boring movie of the year" award?


Yeah I feel you. Roma is a good movie and has some relatively good payoffs later on, but maaaaaaaan it is super slow for most of it.

I guess you guys never saw the films he made before he made it big. :p

[allegate]

if there is no Mushu / Cricket in the Mulan movie then what was the point.

[GulDukat]

Casino>Goodfellas

[eversonpoe]

if there is no Mushu / Cricket in the Mulan movie then what was the point.

https://media.giphy.com/media/10r3LJE3maPbnW/giphy.gif

[october_midnight]

https://scontent.fyvr2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/91112038_1500502663431931_8206320611476111360_n.pn g?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=g6HbniGbw4sAX9dCIZt&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr2-1.fna&oh=13529b50aa73263f9de7de73118810bf&oe=5EA87640

[bobbie solo]

Can't disagree there. It's good, hilarious, absurd compelling & eye opening, but A) it didn't need to be 7 episodes & B) it's getting all this hype/meme treatment etc. b/c most of the planet has nothing better to do.

I still applaud the guy behind it. It looks like an absolute monster amount of time & effort went into this thing. True dedication on his part.

[Miss.Selfdestruct]

Marvel movies are for children. Change my mind.

[bobbie solo]

Marvel movies are for children. Change my mind.

I would say they are for children AND adults. Some more than others.

[allegate]

Marvel movies are for children. Change my mind.

https://cdn3.whatculture.com/images/2019/07/335e81951c9e8297-600x338.jpg

[eversonpoe]

Marvel movies are for children. Change my mind.

the plots are generally simple enough that children can follow them, superheroes in general have always been for all ages (as they're meant to inspire the goodness within people), and something being "for children" doesn't make it inherently bad or less worthy of someone's time/attention. i think your attitude is kind of condescending. if you said "i don't enjoy the marvel movies" that would be one thing, but saying they're for children as if that's some failing in them seems bitter. but i could also be reading your statement wrong ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Conan The Barbarian]

https://scontent.fyvr2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/91112038_1500502663431931_8206320611476111360_n.pn g?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=g6HbniGbw4sAX9dCIZt&_nc_ht=scontent.fyvr2-1.fna&oh=13529b50aa73263f9de7de73118810bf&oe=5EA87640

I won’t lie, the memes have put me off on seeing this.

As much as I love Arnold and love everything he does, True Lies was his last great film. Shame that shit is not in HD on home video.

[eversonpoe]

As much as I love Arnold and love everything he does, True Lies was his last great film. Shame that shit is not in HD on home video.

true lies is such a good movie. even tom arnold is fantastic in it. and bill paxton is just...perfect. not to mention jamie lee curtis, whose character is one of my favorite accidental heroines ever.

[Magnetic]

That was a fun movie. I miss those original, quirky action movies.

[eversonpoe]

That was a fun movie. I miss those original, quirky action movies.

long kiss goodnight, if you haven't seen it, really holds up. i watched it twice in the last year and it's just so fucking good.

[Magnetic]

Oh wow, yah. Forgot about that one. :)

[Deacon Blackfire]

Generally I think "it's for kids" is a weak way to put something down - technically Batman: The Animated Series is "for kids" and that didn't stop it from being one of the strongest, most intelligent and frequently most mature takes on the character attempted thus far (Mask of the Phantasm is quite possibly the best Batman film ever made). But as far as the MCU goes, with few exceptions, I think the whole swath of those movies generally represents pretty empty, hollow, junk-food style entertainment.

EDIT: WARNING- Marvel Spoilers follow.

It started out better than it should have. The first Iron Man was a good flick (Stark actually had a moral arc in it - after that, he basically devolved back into the scummy douche he was at the start of the first film), the first Thor worked way better than it should have, and the first Avengers being really fun and not a total mess was an impressive follow-through on what should have been a very difficult ask. I remember actually being excited when they teased Thanos at the end of it. And then they fell into a holding pattern, where individual movies just became space fillers to string along audiences until the next team movie, and even the team movies became space fillers to pump up EVEN BIGGER!!! event movies (Age of Ultron was just treading water and just bleh even besides that). And then we came to Infinity War / Endgame, which completely broke the continuity and robbed these movies of any remaining sense of stakes that they had.

It was a classic case of "we want to have our cake and eat it too." Infinity War tried really hard to play up the intensity and drama and stakes of what was happening, wiping out half of their characters and ending with the villain seemingly triumphant. But it was an obvious gimmick, and the only people fooled into thinking any of that would last were the crying kids (technically the target audience) who watched Spider-Man disintegrate. Then came the even worse Endgame, a hollow greatest-hits medley that undid the mass casualties of Infinity War while expecting new major character deaths to have any emotional impact. The whole thing just felt really hollow and tiring, and when major character deaths and half the world's population being dead for five years were little more than glib punchlines to open the most recent, cringey Spider-Man movie with, it just confirmed these movies were little more than empty fluff playing at being anything more at this point.

Not to mention that by the time they finally got to him, Thanos, frankly, sucked as a villain. He was the right character to pick as a major threat, and absolutely the wrong character to try and make at all sympathetic. Instead of tying his obviously abusive relationship with his daughters to his larger plans - he tells Gamora that all the terrible things he did to her made her stronger, so why not make his plan wiping out half the life in the universe to make all that remained 'better' and 'stronger'? - they went with a half-cocked 'overpopulation is destroying everything so I'm going to wipe out half the life in the universe to save it' bullshit that was earnestly played as somewhat rational (and even sympathetic), to the extent that Captain America positively notes its effect on animal life in the first half of Endgame. Overpopulation is a cop-out excuse for eugenicists who are willfully or deliberately ignorant to the fact that staggered, unfairly distributed resources - not the lack of resources themselves - are the root of the problems that Thanos claims to want to address, and even if lack of resources was the problem, you have the Infinity Gauntlet. You could just, uh, make more resources with it?! His agenda needed to be backed by an ideology that was warped and evil, not idiotic, and so Marvel's ultimate big bad was an utter failure in my book.

Also, as charming as Tom Holland is, I hate his Spider-Man. He's basically Stark Jr, a defense department intern with a high-tech, AI powered suit that consistently fights threats that Tony Stark created. Vulture was the rare good Marvel villain in Homecoming, a dude screwed out of his job by Stark's dispassionate, careless monopolizing and left with little choice but to turn to crime. He kills one person in the movie, a fellow criminal who threatens to rat him and his crew out, and even that is accidental. And yet, Stark is never directly confronted with how his actions led to this - just more "okay Mister Stark!" idolatry from Peter. A movie that should have ended with him telling off Tony ended with him politely declining an Avengers role. And then Far From Home...oof. Remember when people thought The Dark Knight, in which an invasive spy machine (which is always treated as wrong and morally suspect) is innovated to find the Joker and then is promptly destroyed to stop it from being exploited and becoming a permanent surveillance apparatus, was apologia for the Patriot Act and the Bush administration? In Far From Home, Tony Stark wills Peter Parker a satellite system with worldwide surveillance capabilities that can deploy drones to kill anyone across the planet (Peter almost kills his romantic rival for MJ by accidentally deploying it), and the movie has no problem with that - just with the fact Peter lets the wrong person control it. The themes that do squeak by in these mostly frivolous movies and their ceaseless deification of Tony Stark are a little much for me to stomach.

They have a handful of strong films, like The Winter Soldier, Black Panther, and Civil War (which comes closest of any of their movies to justifying the "cinematic universe" approach as anything other than a moneymaking gimmick), but those films have consistent advantages that set them apart from the others - chiefly, a) the supporting casts in those films are engaging and actually have shit to do in the story other than play up the 'cinematic universe' angle, and b) the antagonists in those films are nuanced, interesting, and have important role in the stories other than being the bad guys. Marvel generally has real problems with villains, or seriously investing in characters who aren't intended to be in more than one movie, because marketing and 'what comes next' dominates these movies to the extent that the individual pieces have less value than the grand design. That's my biggest problem with 'cinematic universes' - when what comes next is always bigger and more important that what you're working on now, what you're working on now ends up being half as interesting and worthwhile as it could or should be. That's what I respect, warts and all, about Christopher Nolan's Batman films. He treated each one like it could be the last. They deliberated having Harvey Dent be in Batman Begins but decided that it wouldn't do justice to his character, to include him just as a thread to follow in a potential sequel, and even the Joker card tease was less a 'what happens now?!' cliffhanger than it was establishing that the familiar Batman status quo had been reached. It could have been the last film and it still would have worked as an ending. Same with The Dark Knight's ending, and for all the shit The Dark Knight Rises took at the height of Marvel's popularity, it was a film dedicated to seeing the characters and story had closure and an ending that was final, disallowing any real chance for it to be strung along for an indefinite number of follow-up sequels. It was the anti-Marvel approach, one of many things I think made those films more artistically and emotionally rewarding than nearly anything Marvel has produced.

Damn this post was longer than I intended but give me a break, Marvel has been crapping out movies for over a decade now!

[allegate]

You had me and you lost me and you had me again. I appreciate you took the time to write those thoughts out.

[marodi]

I don't agree with some of what you have written but I do appreciate that you obviously put a lot of thoughts into this and that you did not take a trollish approach to this subject but instead put out a well written, well detail post.

And for that, you have my respect.

[Deacon Blackfire]

Thanks for the nice comments! Always looking for conversation and not arguments here. I totally get the broad appeal of the Marvel films. My father grew up loving their comics and characters and so a world where they get their own blockbuster movies is like a dream to him, and regardless of what I feel about the movies I've had a lot of great times with him watching them.

In unrelated controversial cinema opinions, I thought Once Upon a Time in Hollywood was garbage. One of the most superficial films I've ever seen, a glut of nostalgia porn and "oh those were the days" crap. The lead characters are uninteresting, unsympathetic douchebags whose "struggles" were not worth caring about (love that Pitt's character probably having murdered is wife is apparently not supposed to make him repellent), and Margot Robbie's Sharon Tate is basically a vacuous Barbie doll with no role as a character other than to dangle the thread of the Manson family killings, which the movie really has nothing to say about anyway. In fact the only role of the Manson family in the film is to operate as disingenuous stand-ins for hippie culture - "dirty hippies" who in the climax are righteously dispatched by Hollywood's old guard. Obviously fuck the Manson family but this movie's imagined conception of history is fictitious beyond its own intent. The whole thing is super masturbatory and regressive, imo.

[GulDukat]

Thanks for the nice comments! Always looking for conversation and not arguments here. I totally get the broad appeal of the Marvel films. My father grew up loving their comics and characters and so a world where they get their own blockbuster movies is like a dream to him, and regardless of what I feel about the movies I've had a lot of great times with him watching them.

In unrelated controversial cinema opinions, I thought Once Upon a Time in Hollywood was garbage. One of the most superficial films I've ever seen, a glut of nostalgia porn and "oh those were the days" crap. The lead characters are uninteresting, unsympathetic douchebags whose "struggles" were not worth caring about (love that Pitt's character probably having murdered is wife is apparently not supposed to make him repellent), and Margot Robbie's Sharon Tate is basically a vacuous Barbie doll with no role as a character other than to dangle the thread of the Manson family killings, which the movie really has nothing to say about anyway. In fact the only role of the Manson family in the film is to operate as disingenuous stand-ins for hippie culture - "dirty hippies" who in the climax are righteously dispatched by Hollywood's old guard. Obviously fuck the Manson family but this movie's imagined conception of historic is fictitious beyond its own intent. The whole thing is super masturbatory and regressive, imo.I respect your opinion, but I couldn't disagree more on just about every point.

[Deacon Blackfire]

Fair enough! I'm definitely in the minority as far as opinions on that film go. Went in with pretty much no expectations but it still just rubbed me the wrong way on most levels. Nice cinematography though.

[WorzelG]

WTF why did I read @Deacon Blackfire (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=1571) posts on Marvel films when I’m only up to the first Avengers film? I had Homeland spoiled recently when Stephen King tweeted a plot point also, I really have to start watching stuff at the time they happen rather than 10 years later, it’s getting ridiculous (note I’m blaming myself for this, not him! Although Stephen King was dissed for his very recent spoiler)

[Deacon Blackfire]

Sorry, I should have put more overt spoiler tags on that post. My bad! : X

[WorzelG]

Sorry, I should have put more overt spoiler tags on that post. My bad! : X
no it really wasn’t your fault, you have every right to comment on a film from last year! My problem is my kids are autistic and don’t do watching films all the way through or cinema going, my eldest is in a superheroes phase though through school so we’re slowly watching them one by one and playing catch up. I’ve enjoyed them so far

[allegate]

after seeing Enver Gjokaj in that season 2 episode of Community I was reminded of his terrific work in Dollhouse. That got me thinking about who is streaming it and if I should also rewatch it because it's short and only two seasons. Then after a spoiler conversation on a podcast about Westworld (I don't watch it so I have no idea what they're talking about) but it sounds a little bit like Dollhouse in a way.

And of course I just did a Google search and Google tells me that everyone on reddit has this thought every couple of months (as they do because no one searches before posting a topic over there). I guess if I watched Westworld I would have made the connection sooner? Oh well.

Side note: it's funny seeing how many people from Community made it to the Marvel films because of the Russo Brothers, but Enver was in the first Avengers movie which was Joss and he did Dollhouse.

My controversial opinion is that I think Enver should be getting more work. I don't know if Dollhouse was just a weird one-off or what but the way he was able to mimic the other actors while imprinted as them was pretty damn good. you know, as far as memories of a decade-plus later go.

[MrLobster]

Side note: it's funny seeing how many people from Community made it to the Marvel films because of the Russo Brothers, but Enver was in the first Avengers movie which was Joss and he did Dollhouse.

Sure, he was in Avengers but you seem to be missing that he was also featured heavily in the Marvel's Agent Carter series as well.

[allegate]

I did forget that, didn't I. I blame it on the fact that I couldn't convince anyone else to watch it so that's a really big gap in my Marvel viewing.

[eversonpoe]

I did forget that, didn't I. I blame it on the fact that I couldn't convince anyone else to watch it so that's a really big gap in my Marvel viewing.

it's my favorite thing marvel has done (except ragnarok). i love it so much and i'm so mad it didn't get a third season. that cliffhanger was rough.

[allegate]

wiki says it's on D+ so I guess I'll download the eps and watch those without them.

[marodi]

Enver was in Emergence, a series that aired on ABC last fall. It was excellent and I really hope we're going to get a second season.

And with that, the cat's out of the bag: I watch cable TV *insert collective gasp of horror here*. There has been quite a few series I greatly enjoyed for the last two seasons.

Here's a few: New Amsterdam, FBI, FBI Most Wanted, Manifest, Emergence and Prodigal Son.

[WorzelG]

I’m only up to the first Avengers film in the MCU but I’m trying to figure out whether I find the character Pepper Potts annoying or if it’s specifically Gwyneth Paltrow that is putting me off Pepper Potts

[MrLobster]

I’m only up to the first Avengers film in the MCU but I’m trying to figure out whether I find the character Pepper Potts annoying or if it’s specifically Gwyneth Paltrow that is putting me off Pepper Potts

I like the character... mostly ...but not having another Iron Man that strongly features her movie doesn't hurt my feelings either. I liked her the most in Iron Man 2...

[Magnetic]

I’m only up to the first Avengers film in the MCU but I’m trying to figure out whether I find the character Pepper Potts annoying or if it’s specifically Gwyneth Paltrow that is putting me off Pepper Potts

I get it. I think the first Thor movie might have been more fun if they hadn't chosen Natalie Portman as Jane.

[MrLobster]

I get it. I think the first Thor movie might have been more fun if they hadn't chosen Natalie Portman as Jane.

Personally, I like her as Jane and I'm looking forward to seeing what they do next.

[bobbie solo]

I’m only up to the first Avengers film in the MCU but I’m trying to figure out whether I find the character Pepper Potts annoying or if it’s specifically Gwyneth Paltrow that is putting me off Pepper Potts

It's Goop & her vagina scented candles, not Pepper.

[eversonpoe]

I’m only up to the first Avengers film in the MCU but I’m trying to figure out whether I find the character Pepper Potts annoying or if it’s specifically Gwyneth Paltrow that is putting me off Pepper Potts


I like the character... mostly ...but not having another Iron Man that strongly features her movie doesn't hurt my feelings either. I liked her the most in Iron Man 2...

yeah, it's definitely gwenyth. if you can try to forget it's her, pepper is great. i love her in iron man 3, especially.

[WorzelG]

It's Goop & her vagina scented candles, not Pepper.
Not to mention marrying the awful Chris Martin from Coldplay and ‘consciously uncoupling’ from him! Such an irritating woman

[eversonpoe]

everybody ready for the strangest and funniest / creepiest thing gwenyth has ever been involved in? make sure you read the text posts under each video, because they are hilarious.

https://lavenderek.tumblr.com/post/181159660190/sashayed-lilah80-sashayed-sashayed-my/amp

[kaydraven]

I don't like It Follows. I feel like I'm one of the few who just hated that movie.

[mfte]

I don't like It Follows. I feel like I'm one of the few who just hated that movie.


Give Under The Silver Lake a watch!

[kaydraven]

Give Under The Silver Lake a watch!

Never heard of it, but looked it up and it sounds interesting. I'll put it on my lengthy "To watch" list.

[BRoswell]

I don't like It Follows. I feel like I'm one of the few who just hated that movie.

I hated it too, and that's not a word I throw around a lot when it comes to films. It's a circle jerk for 80s fetishists masquerading as something more than that. I feel the same way about Stranger Things. You're just better off watching the films that inspired them.

[eversonpoe]

I hated it too, and that's not a word I throw around a lot when it comes to films. It's a circle jerk for 80s fetishists masquerading as something more than that. I feel the same way about Stranger Things. You're just better off watching the films that inspired them.

:: hides in corner ::

[kaydraven]

I hated it too, and that's not a word I throw around a lot when it comes to films. It's a circle jerk for 80s fetishists masquerading as something more than that. I feel the same way about Stranger Things. You're just better off watching the films that inspired them.

Yes! It just confused me how it got so much praised for a "John Carpenter feel" and I was thinking they just ripped it off. It didn't feel like a "smart choice" to me. I'd rather just watch Carpenter's movies. Another thing that bugged me was the unclear timeframe. Sometimes it felt like the present, sometimes it felt like the past, and at times it felt like the future. That was something else that was praised but I found it annoying and distracting.

While I do like Stranger Things, I think it kind of spawned the media obsession with 80s inspired movies and shows. If done well it works, but other times it's just unnecessary.

[Alexandros]

While I do like Stranger Things, I think it kind of spawned the media obsession with 80s inspired movies and shows. If done well it works, but other times it's just unnecessary.

No wait, Stranger Things is the result of 80s nostalgia, not the cause. It may have added fuel to it but it definitely wasn't the start, this has been going on for the whole past decade.

[WorzelG]

yeah, it's definitely gwenyth. if you can try to forget it's her, pepper is great. i love her in iron man 3, especially.
Just watched Iron Man 3 and, yes, Pepper has definitely grown on me, loved the ending.

One thing I find sometimes takes me out of films a bit is when actors from the soap Neighbours (Australian soap that became randomly massive in the UK and spawned Kylie Minogue) turn up in things, so Guy Pearce threw me for a loop, OMG it’s Mike from Neighbours. The same happened in Lost when Jim Robinson from Neighbours turned up as an enemy. I don’t think Neighbours played or caught on in the US but I can’t overstate its popularity in the late 80s UK!

[r_z]

The most entertaining movie to come out of the Marvel franchise is Punisher: War Zone.

[GulDukat]

Attack of the Clones>Citizen Cane



































j/k

[eversonpoe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbPcAEQAlF4

Kids In The Hall "Citizen Kane" sketch > Citizen Kane

[GulDukat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbPcAEQAlF4

Kids In The Hall "Citizen Kane" sketch > Citizen Kane
Hadn't see that before. I love KITH.

[eversonpoe]

Hadn't see that before. I love KITH.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xillqqt0Y0

this one is my all-time favorite KITH sketch. it's just...so perfect. and also relevant given part of the discussion in the best debut albums thread! haha

[GulDukat]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xillqqt0Y0

this one is my all-time favorite KITH sketch. it's just...so perfect. and also relevant given part of the discussion in the best debut albums thread! hahaI have seen this skit 100 times, always cracks me up.

[MrLobster]

When they eventually reboot "The Expendables" I want it to be re-branded "Planet Hollywood".

[october_midnight]

David Lynch's Dune is awful.

[eversonpoe]

David Lynch's Dune is awful.

but it's also kinda fun ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

here's mine - the birds sucks. only one likable character (who only becomes likable halfway into the movie), melanie is fucking creep, and it's so. god. damn. slow.
i like all of the other hitchcock movies i've seen, but the birds is not a good movie.

[katara]

David Lynch's Dune is awful.
It's disappointing that we got that and not the Alejandro Jodorowsky version.

Still, some of the team on that movie (Giger, O'Bannon, etc) went on to make Alien. Not a bad trade.

[marodi]

Clint Eastwood will go down in cinematic history as a director, not as an actor.

[eversonpoe]

Clint Eastwood will go down in cinematic history as a director, not as an actor.

but like...also as an asshole ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[WorzelG]

Watching Return of the King, our extended edition DVDs and finding it unfathomable that the theatrical version missed out Saruman’s ending, the skulls in the Paths of the Dead sequence and the whole the Scouring of the Shire section of the book was ignored! Also loving it much more than I remembered. I think they should have ended it after Aragorn was crowned

[allegro]

Dazed and Confused and especially Can't Hardly Wait weren't that good.


This is old, but ... Dazed and Confused is a period movie that’s far more enjoyable to people who were actually around during the particular period in question. Just like how you like “Singles.” “Dazed” perfectly sums up high school during that period, even if you didn’t go to high school in Texas or didn’t have those dumb rituals at your high school (we certainly didn’t), the movie still sums up the massive boredom, hanging out, pot-smoking and aimlessly driving around while pot-smoking, and the music.

My contribution:

The Ten Commandments SUCKS. Everything about it sucks.

[marodi]

but like...also as an asshole ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Okay, I'll bite. Is it because of the chair thing? Because yeah, that was absolutely ridiculous. It made him look like an old fool who's losing his mind. I'll admit I don't know much about him as a person, apart from what is on his Wikipedia page. My comment was only about his career in movies.



My contribution:

The Ten Commandments SUCKS. Everything about it sucks.

The Charlton Heston/ Yul Brynner thing? I believe you mean that it's awesomely kitsch. It's the best fun I have every Easter!

[allegro]

The Charlton Heston/ Yul Brynner thing? I believe you mean that it's awesomely kitsch. It's the best fun I have every Easter!
It’s about Passover, and it’s the WORST 9000-hour waste-of-time ever.


Clint Eastwood is known as an asshole in the U.S. because he’s a Republican Trump supporter. Although he recently switched to Bloomberg (not redeeming).

[eversonpoe]

Okay, I'll bite. Is it because of the chair thing? Because yeah, that was absolutely ridiculous. It made him look like an old fool who's losing his mind. I'll admit I don't know much about him as a person, apart from what is on his Wikipedia page. My comment was only about his career in movies.



The Charlton Heston/ Yul Brynner thing? I believe you mean that it's awesomely kitsch. It's the best fun I have every Easter!


It’s about Passover, and it’s the WORST 9000-hour waste-of-time ever.


Clint Eastwood is known as an asshole in the U.S. because he’s a Republican Trump supporter. Although he recently switched to Bloomberg (not redeeming).

this is a little (https://medium.com/@nilegirl/dear-clint-eastwood-you-are-too-old-to-be-an-idiot-but-stupid-enough-to-be-a-racist-asshole-cf9857012729) melodramatic, but it's not wrong. and it links to the vanity fair article where he very clearly outs himself as an out of touch, racist dick.

[marodi]

Wow. Thank you both. That I really didn't know about.

On one hand, you could say that he's a product of his generation but on the other hand, the one that matters the most, a man of his intelligence should have been able to break from that mold and grow up with his views of the world.

Also: allegro when I was growing up, on Easter weekend, cable tv would give us the Charlton Heston double showcase of Ben Hur and The Ten Commandments. At Christmas, cable tv would give us the double showcase of The Sound of Music and Gone With The Wind.

Cable tv is weird.

[allegro]

Speaking of Easter zzzzzzzzzzz. Every Good Friday, my Catholic family would subject us to The Robe. At least it had Richard Burton.

[eversonpoe]

Speaking of Easter zzzzzzzzzzz. Every Good Friday, my Catholic family would subject us to The Robe. At least it had Richard Burton.

i thought you were jewish!? did you convert when you married G? or are you just really knowledgable about judaism (like you are about many things)?

ok, my controversial opinion: i've been watching a lot of Argento films lately and several of my friends have cited Deep Red as their favorite, but i just cannot get into it at all. and the dubbing is WAAAAAAY worse and way more distracting than usual in his movies.
anyway, so far my favorite is Suspiria (duh) but followed very closely by Cat O' Nine Tails (which is apparently Argento's least favorite of his films). ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[allegro]

i thought you were jewish!?
G and I were both raised Catholic.

Anyway

I’ve never really grokked Ingmar Bergman.

[GulDukat]

I saw The Godfather III yesterday for the first time in a while, and I think that while it's not quite as good as the first two, it's still a fine movie (as I've said in this thread before). If Winona Ryder had not dropped out of the project and she had played Mary Corleone and if Robert Duvall had reprized his role as Tom Hagan, I think III would have been as good as the first two.

My take on the death of Michael Corleone might be controversial. Most people seem to think that he died a lonely and broken man, but did he?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KupAgY18QDc

Yes, he died alone, but maybe he finally found peace with himself and his sins.

ETA: Andy Garcia was great as Vincent Corleone.

[WorzelG]

This is what comes of having an autistic child who has to watch Jurassic Park with me up to the bit where the TRex chases the jeep every morning, you notice little things that aggravate you

Why does Ian Malcolm say ‘what have they got in there, King Kong?’ as they enter the park when his character KNOWS there is a TRex in there, it’s just an annoying filmmakers reference to another film that now takes me out of it

now when he says that I shout at the TV, you know there’s a TRex in there, what is wrong with you

[r_z]

Does he know, though? Because Hammond didn't tell the others (apart from the lawyer).

[WorzelG]

Does he know, though? Because Hammond didn't tell the others (apart from the lawyer).
Hmm I suppose but I would have thought if you’re going to have a dinosaur park it would be a bit anticlimactic without a TRex!

[r_z]

No, what I mean is, that the Dern and McNeil characters certainly didn't know they were about to see living dinosaurs as Hammond didn't exactly tell 'em what the park was about.

[WorzelG]

No, what I mean is, that the Dern and McNeil characters certainly didn't know they were about to see living dinosaurs as Hammond didn't exactly tell 'em what the park was about.
Yes but Ian Malcolm said ‘he did it, the son of a bitch did it’ at the point where they all saw the grazing herbivore dinosaurs suggesting he had an inkling of what was going on beforehand, plus they all saw the brachiosaurus etc before they embarked on the tour where he comments about King Kong. I’ve seen this film far too many times, 89 since Lockdown (up to the trex jeep chase).

[r_z]

Heh, you're right. I thought he said that before they meet the herbivores. Maybe it's a comment on the giant doors to the park he thought were ridiculous? Or him trying to impress Ms. Sattler with his humor....

[imail724]

David Lynch's Dune is awful.
Only Lynch film I couldn't get through. I don't even really consider it a true Lynch film considering all the behind the scenes BS that went on.

[BRoswell]

Why does Ian Malcolm say ‘what have they got in there, King Kong?’ as they enter the park when his character KNOWS there is a TRex in there, it’s just an annoying filmmakers reference to another film that now takes me out of it

I always saw that line as Malcolm commenting on how ridiculous the theatricality of the whole thing was. Based on his comments later in the film, he's clearly not a fan of how one of the greatest scientific advances in human history was turned into a marketing gimmick.

[allegate]

https://twitter.com/pixelatedboat/status/1281410481220014080

I mean, holy shit.

[WorzelG]

Getting annoyed at the Jack Black character in Peter Jackson’s King Kong. He’s either a cunt or useless all the way through, then gets to make the pithy remark ‘it was beauty who killed the beast’ at the end. No it was YOU who bought Kong back. I don’t even blame the military who did what they had to do. Shame they couldn’t have tranquillised him and took him back, but I wish Kong had at least killed him

[allegate]

that was my episode 1 for a long time. there are still bits I like - the T-Rex fight is nice - but there are so many others that are just floundering - the T-Rex fight takes so long - that its runtime just bugs me.

It's like George Rail Road Martin and other fantasy authors who get so successful they eschew the whole thought of having an editor to trim the fat.

[GulDukat]

Batman Returns (1992) was the best Batman movie.

[WorzelG]

Batman Returns (1992) was the best Batman movie.
this is probably just me, and it’s ridiculous as I know the films are supposed to be dark, but I didn’t enjoy the relentless grimness of it. It’s like Sin City in that respect in that at the end I just felt shitty and I don’t know how to explain why. It made me feel a bit dirty having watched it (the book American Psycho had that effect on me too, I had to give it to charity, I didn’t want it in the house)

[bobbie solo]

Batman Returns (1992) was the best Batman movie.

It's certainly the most creative and best looking Batman movie in terms of set design, costumes, etc.

[eversonpoe]

It's certainly the most creative and best looking Batman movie in terms of set design, costumes, etc.

someone i know just got the neon light that selena has in her apartment, and it the "o" and "t" alternate between being on and off "hello there / hell here"

[BRoswell]

Batman Returns (1992) was the best Batman movie.

It's certainly the best out of the Burton/Schumacher films. Unfortunately, its tone is also what led to the Schumacher films.

[WorzelG]

someone i know just got the neon light that selena has in her apartment, and it the "o" and "t" alternate between being on and off "hello there / hell here"
This reminds me of a segment in Doom 3 where you enter Bertrugers room and the door entry thing alternates between his name and hellfire

[WorzelG]

It's certainly the best out of the Burton/Schumacher films. Unfortunately, its tone is also what led to the Schumacher films.
Is that Batman and Robin? I’ve never seen beyond Batman Returns

[Jinsai]

Glad to see some newer appreciation for Batman Returns. It was criminally underrated for the longest time. Out of all the Batman movies, that one and The Dark Knight are my favorite screen adaptations.

@WorzelG (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=811), I can get not wanting something around like that... I gave away my copy of the book The Girl Next Door. It wasn't a bad book at all really, it just disturbed the shit out of me, and I didn't like it sitting on my bookshelf, reminding me of all the disturbing stuff in it. That said, I loved the American Psycho book, and was actually looking for my copy recently so I could reread the "music review" chapters.

[eversonpoe]

Is that Batman and Robin? I’ve never seen beyond Batman Returns

he did batman forever and batman & robin. the former is fun, campy, and has a great soundtrack, though it's still a very flawed film. the latter is a bit too​ campy for my taste, is a fucking mess, and has a decent soundtrack

[WorzelG]

Glad to see some newer appreciation for Batman Returns. It was criminally underrated for the longest time. Out of all the Batman movies, that one and The Dark Knight are my favorite screen adaptations.

@WorzelG (https://www.echoingthesound.org/community/member.php?u=811), I can get not wanting something around like that... I gave away my copy of the book The Girl Next Door. It wasn't a bad book at all really, it just disturbed the shit out of me, and I didn't like it sitting on my bookshelf, reminding me of all the disturbing stuff in it. That said, I loved the American Psycho book, and was actually looking for my copy recently so I could reread the "music review" chapters.
I think sometimes it’s just random and weird what will disturb me, I’m quite happy playing survival horror games or setting random people on fire in Tomb Raider. When I first watched the film adaptation of Pet Semetary (even though I had read the book and knew the story) I was drunk and blubbered so much when Gage died we had to abandon watching. Also I know the ending of the modern version of The Mist and I have refused to watch it and so has my husband as it just hits too close to home

[WorzelG]

he did batman forever and batman & robin. the former is fun, campy, and has a great soundtrack, though it's still a very flawed film. the latter is a bit too​ campy for my taste, is a fucking mess, and has a decent soundtrack
Well I have bought all the Batman films from the first to the Dark Knight Returns for my husbands birthday next week. He’s a big Arnie fan and is vascillating between wanting to see Batman and Robin and thinking it is really well left alone!

[r_z]

I have a weak spot for Batman Forever for nostalgic reasons as it was the first Batman movie where I was old enough to go see it in a theatre. I remember I had the sticker album, loved the U2 song and played the video game. I also had the audio version of the movie on cassette, where they exchanged Gotham for New York (because of that statue of liberty crash at the beginning, I suspect).

But: Returns is my favorite Batman movie as well. I can't stand Nolan's movies.

[eversonpoe]

I can't stand Nolan's movies.

i love "the dark knight" and i understand that it can't exist without "batman begins" (which is good but not great). but god i cannot stand "the dark knight rises".

[Space Suicide]

Glad to see some newer appreciation for Batman Returns. It was criminally underrated for the longest time. Out of all the Batman movies, that one and The Dark Knight are my favorite screen adaptations.

Returns is my favorite. It’s so goth, gritty and dark. I love the portrayals in the film and the cast. Penguin might be a crime kingpin but the disgusting half man half sea mammal thing DeVito played was an awesome design.

The Catwoman suit in the film is my favorite suit from any filmed portrayal also.

[WorzelG]

Why is there such a big competition between the D.C. expanded universe and the Marvel one? It seems to me if you’re into the concept of superheroes you’d probably like a variety of them and find something to enjoy in both universes?

[MrLobster]

Why is there such a big competition between the D.C. expanded universe and the Marvel one? It seems to me if you’re into the concept of superheroes you’d probably like a variety of them and find something to enjoy in both universes?

On the surface, you're quite right... but how each of those products are presented does matter. For example, the many versions of Superman and Spider-Man on film that are available... some of these connect with larger crossover audiences well and some very much feel like it's in own thing. No, that doesn't really address the larger expanded universes of each, and for me personally, the DC stuff after Nolan just didn't connect (but I enjoyed most of Wonder Woman). Would I have liked if DC did something more Marvel has done... I'm not sure but I just know what they have done so far hasn't made me want to pay attention.

[WorzelG]

On the surface, you're quite right... but how each of those products are presented does matter. For example, the many versions of Superman and Spider-Man on film that are available... some of these connect with larger crossover audiences well and some very much feel like it's in own thing. No, that doesn't really address the larger expanded universes of each, and for me personally, the DC stuff after Nolan just didn't connect (but I enjoyed most of Wonder Woman). Would I have liked if DC did something more Marvel has done... I'm not sure but I just know what they have done so far hasn't made me want to pay attention.
There seems to me so far to be a much more widespread pool of directors and writers for the Marvel films, rather than majority Zack Snyder - although I haven't watched any of the DCEU films yet, theyre next on the agenda after the MCU - and at one film per weekend it will take a while to get there!

[eversonpoe]

There seems to me so far to be a much more widespread pool of directors and writers for the Marvel films, rather than majority Zack Snyder - although I haven't watched any of the DCEU films yet, theyre next on the agenda after the MCU - and at one film per weekend it will take a while to get there!

the only ones i've seen were Wonder Woman (loved it, for the most part) & Birds Of Prey (SUUUUUPER fun...like a live-action looney tune with harley standing in for bugs bunny). i have zero investment in the overall "universe" of DC, but they have some badass women and that makes me so happy.

[WorzelG]

the only ones i've seen were Wonder Woman (loved it, for the most part) & Birds Of Prey (SUUUUUPER fun...like a live-action looney tune with harley standing in for bugs bunny). i have zero investment in the overall "universe" of DC, but they have some badass women and that makes me so happy.
i must have seen the trailer for Justice League a million times and the woman who plays Wonder Woman is incredibly hot and seems great in the role, I used to love the Wonder Woman series from the eighties so I am hoping for good things when I get around to it.

[eversonpoe]

i must have seen the trailer for Justice League a million times and the woman who plays Wonder Woman is incredibly hot and seems great in the role, I used to love the Wonder Woman series from the eighties so I am hoping for good things when I get around to it.

yeah i'm looking very forward to WW1984

[allegate]

...eventually.