12 dead, 59 Injured During Shooting at Dark Knight Rises Premiere

[onthewall2983]

Guns fucking suck. I know they are a necessary evil for some, but for personal reasons I have always felt this way.

[theruiner]

^^Are you referring to this?

14 dead, 50 wounded after gunman opens fire at midnight showing of The Dark Knight Rises. (http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/colorado-theater-shooting/index.html)

Jesus Christ.


Edit:

One police officer carried a girl believed to be about 9 with gunshot wound to her back out of the theater, a witness said. "She wasn't moving."
There are just no words for that.

[PQHooligan]

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21118201/unknown-number-people-shot-at-aurora-movie-theater

12 killed, 50 wounded is the count now - the suspect's mother apparently lives a mile from me, and the local news helicopter is currently above her house

[miss k bee]

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21118201/unknown-number-people-shot-at-aurora-movie-theater

12 killed, 50 wounded is the count now - the suspect's mother apparently lives a mile from me, and the local news helicopter is currently above her house

wtf is going on with some people!. sick

[DVYDRNS]

hipsters all over Facebook are pushing for outlawing guns now. oh geez.

How are you supposed to protect yourself against criminals who still have illegal guns and will always have access to them?

Reeducation is the answer. We live in a Death Obsessed Society.

But i think this is bigger than what we're being told. Look at who the media is attacking already. "conspiracy theorists and truthers"

But I hold 1 dollar bills up to the light. so yea.

[DF118]

How are you supposed to protect yourself against criminals who still have illegal guns and will always have access to them?


Curious- how often do you find you have to defend yourself against criminals who have guns now?

[Elke]

Why would you hold 1 dollar bills up to the light? And would that be a series of singular 1 dollar bills, or several 1 dollar bills at the same time? In case of the latter: is the purpose of your holding up 1 dollar bills to the light to block the sun? Cause they got things for that now. What are they called? Oh yeah, that's it: sunglasses.

Seriously: people died. At least wait 48h before incorporating it into your bloody rhetoric.

[littlemonkey613]

We live in a Death Obsessed Society.



Really? I think this society plays death down and it is disturbingly removed from the culture itself. I think we need to be more honest about and aware of the reality of death if anything. Anyways this is horrible news and tragic as fuck. All these people wanted was to enjoy a flick. I can't believe how many people were shot and the fear all those people must have felt. I wish those who survived a safe recovery.

[DF118]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18935153

Why are the press intent on calling these "Batman Shooting Victims"? How moronic is that? The first thing that conjures up is the image of Batman running around shooting people.

Also, this probably would stop happening in the USA as much if the USA hurried up and banned guns.

[Space Suicide]

Random Headlines thread, you'll probably get flamed for making a topic about it.

Either way, I'm glad this asshole didn't commit suicide. Now he can face trial and get his sentences.

No real motive pinpointed but as I see it there was none. He probably thought he was a bad ass when he did it since he wore black clothes, had several assault rifles and wore a gas mask. You're fucking cool, bro!

[Amaro]

What grants having a devoted thread in this subforum anyway? I've always wondered.

[october_midnight]

I believe it's when something of significance happens. Despite the fact that some may disagree (who would've thought...HERE of all places!), I feel that this probably is such a thing.

[Magtig]

Oh boy, it's time for another fifth grade debate about gun control in 'merica. Apparently this guy had buckets of ammunition in his rigged-with-explosives apartment.


Random Headlines thread, you'll probably get flamed for making a topic about it.
How about we flame you for discouraging thread creation instead? Catch-all threads suck.


He probably thought he was a bad ass when he did it since he wore black clothes, had several assault rifles and wore a gas mask. You're fucking cool, bro!
You realize you're talking about someone who is most likely mentally ill, right? I'm pretty sure people who hear voices don't act weird to be cool.

[Piko]

http://m.yahoo.com/w/ygo-frontpage/lp/story/us/2436106/coke.bp%3B_ylt=A2KL8y9twAlQpX8A0iRi_tw4%3B_ylu=X3o DMTFzdXQxbDE2BGNwb3MDMQRjc2VjA21vYmlsZS10ZARpbnRsA 3VzBHBrZwNpZC0yNDM2MTA2BHBvcwMxBHNsawNpbWFnZQ--?ref_w=frontdoors&view=today&.tsrc=attcf&.intl=US&.lang=en

[october_midnight]

Roger Ebert weighs in. (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/opinion/weve-seen-this-movie-before.html?_r=1&smid=tw-share)

Like with most other things he says, I agree.

[Space Suicide]

How about we flame you for discouraging thread creation instead? Catch-all threads suck.


You realize you're talking about someone who is most likely mentally ill, right? I'm pretty sure people who hear voices don't act weird to be cool.

How about I'm in agreeance? I'm just referencing the one fact I made a news thread before but it was talked about in Random Headlines first and it was frowned upon?

I'm not saying he wasn't mentally ill but the demeanor and the attire involved seemed to point to something more of 'I'm a cool guy" mixed with his psychotic episodes.

How many people wear gas masks NOT trying or thinking they are cool?

[Magtig]

Well I guess if we're going by your avatar what you said about gas masks and people trying to be cool is true. However, he threw tear gas when he first walked into the theater, so the gas mask presumably had an actual function.

[Space Suicide]

Well I guess if we're going by your avatar what you said about gas masks and people trying to be cool is true. However, he threw tear gas when he first walked into the theater, so the gas mask presumably had an actual function.

Yeah, I like Fallout 3. Best avatar they have to offer now on here. I figured that would have been brought up.

I know he did, I just don't see the reason for dropping tear gas when you're decked out with assault rifles galore.

[theruiner]

Curious- how often do you find you have to defend yourself against criminals who have guns now?Seriously! I don't understand these people (and Joymode, I know you didn't say this) who seriously think that they need to walk around with a gun 24/7. Like, I'm going to the grocery store and a duel might break out. You never know, better grab my gun! I hear this a lot in Arizona. I seriously question the mental state of anyone who thinks that they need to carry a gun with them at all times because they're that paranoid that there's a crazy gunman hiding around every corner. The chances of you ending up in a movie theater with a crazed gunman, or even getting robbed by gunpoint, are pretty slim. But that doesn't stop some people (and a lot of people in my backward, redneck state) from thinking that everyone needs to have a gun on them at all times everywhere.

[Wretchedest]

There are, like, 3 people with that vatar on this board. Its kind of confusing sometimes. Really though, THATS the current focus of this thread? And whether or not their should be one? O h dear...

This one is cutting pretty deep for me. I think its the combination of all the circumstances. First of all, i think a lot of us were at those showings last night. It could have been any of us, and its an especially terrifying place for something like that to happen. Very claustrophobic, nowhere to run.

Furthermore it was super random. Unlike in columbine, for imstance, the shooter didnt know any of his targets... it wasnt some act of vengeance. If anything, these people had something in common with the shooter. And, on the surface at least, it seems like he had something going for him, a future phd, etc. Its very gut wrenching. Very wierd. Its all useless and ruins an otherwise great experience...

[onthewall2983]

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/391657_421507261225183_2092697638_n.jpg

Flags went at half staff at the Indiana statehouse today, in memory of those who perished. A point of state pride for me today, something I don't know much of sadly.

Christopher Nolan's response to the incident (http://www.deadline.com/2012/07/christopher-nolan-speaks-about-tragedy) hits quite a few resonant notes for me (and a lot of us I imagine) as a moviegoer. Cancelling the Paris premiere was a nice gesture on his and Warner Bros. part.

[Magtig]

Interesting article to consider from Gawker http://gawker.com/5927847/

"There is no such thing as "politicizing" tragedy. James Holmes did not materialize in a movie theater in Aurora this morning, free of any relationship to law and authority and the structures of power in this country; nor did he exit those relationships and structures by murdering 12 people and injuring several dozen more. Before he entered the theater, he purchased guns, whether legally or illegally, under a framework of laws and regulations governed and negotiated by politics; in the parking lot outside, he was arrested by a police force whose salaries, equipment, tactics and rights were shaped and determined by politics. Holmes' ability to seek, or to not seek, mental health care; the government's ability, or inability, to lock up persons deemed unstable — these are things decided and directed by politics. You cannot "politicize" a tragedy because the tragedy is already political. When you talk about the tragedy you're already talking about politics."


There are, like, 3 people with that vatar on this board. Its kind of confusing sometimes. Really though, THATS the current focus of this thread? And whether or not their should be one? O h dear...
The avatar was never the point, and it's irrelevant that three people have it. Read the whole conversation.

[Magtig]

In response to joymode from the RGH thread:


States with the highest gun ownership have more gun deaths. Imagine that.

http://www.blogforarizona.com/.a/6a00d8341bf80c53ef0147e1b7ffa2970b-500wi

Then there's this: http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over-9000-murders-by-gun-in-us-39-in-uk.html
"Number of Murders, United States (http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/violent_crime/murder_homicide.html), 2009: 15,241Number of Murders by Firearms (http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_08.html), US, 2009: 9,146
Number of Murders, Britain, 2008* (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jul/16/crime-figures-recession-impact): 648
(Since Britain’s population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,240 US murders)
Number of Murders by[pdf] firearms (http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs10/hosb0110.pdf), Britain, 2008* 39
(equivalent to 195 US murders)"

[Jinsai]

Chris Nolan has given a statment (http://www.businessinsider.com/christopher-nolan-speaks-out-on-the-tragedy-in-colorado-2012-7)

I realize that this story is only tangentially related to the movie, and to discuss it on that level is a little strange, but his condolences were well presented and concise.

On the actual pertinent discussion about gun control, this disaster is bringing out the usual debate, and the opposition is once again saying that "if someone in the theater were armed, this could have been avoided." That argument (there a world where everyone is carrying concealed weapons will somehow be safer) is strange to me.

Especially when it seems to constantly avoid the statistics regarding gun ownership and associated gun violence, and the even more obvious issue as to where this most recent shooter got his guns. It seems like every time someone loses their mind and goes on a shooting rampage, it turns out they acquired the weapons and ammunition through legal channels... which is why it's so perplexing to me when people argue that "the criminals will always get the weapons illegally, and so we need access to weapons to defend ourselves from them."

But I'm not going to jump to conclusions. Where did this guy get his weapons and ammo from?

Also... what the fuck?! (http://www.businessinsider.com/nra-twitter-colorado-theater-shooting-batman-aurora-2012-7)
I'm assuming that was just some incredibly bad timing... right?

[onthewall2983]

They took down the tweet after, so yes.

[50 Volt Phantom]

The NRA tweet was obviously an innocent tweet that was made ignorant of what had occurred last night, they have removed it.

Anyway, I was at a midnight screening last night, this was kind of a punch in the stomach this morning to learn about. It is an absolute tragedy, and it is sad that numerous media have already started trying to connect this with the Batman character and the movies. Of course this is bringing up the gun debate yet again, and while I don't foresee and wouldn't want a gun ban in the US, I do believe at this point we need some kind of mental health requirement for gun purchases. When I was in high school you could not play on the sports teams without a yearly sports physical as proof that you were fit to play safely, the same kind of idea should be utilized with gun purchasing, if you want to buy, you need to provide credible proof of a mental health assessment. It provides obvious loopholes, and likely won't stop all instances of chaos via mental health issues, but it could help. It sounds like James Holmes, who referred to himself as the Joker to cops, bought his weapons recently, possibly after he snapped or went over the edge of safe train of thought, some kind of mental health check could've slowed him down from procuring his weapons. That's just my opinion.

[Amaro]

I read somewhere James Holmes got some of his guns (if not at all) at Bass Pro.

[Jinsai]

so after looking around a bit, it seems that the police have stated that the shooter obtained all the weapons he used in the shooting legally in the past few months in "hunting and fishing stores."

Fishing/hunting stores sell AR15s?

[theruiner]

I couldn't find an AR15, but Bass Pro has this delicate little number. (http://www.basspro.com/Savage-64-FSS--22-LR-Rifle/product/10218150/36937) And a whole bunch of semi-automatic rifles. (http://www.basspro.com/Action-Semi-Automatic/Hunting-Guns-Rifles/_/N-1z0wfqwZ1z0weqw#Action)

[ManBurning]

What's even more twisted, in a bizarre coincidental fucked up way is one of the victims was in the Toronto Eaton Centre mall shooting last month. Well, she literally just stepped outside of the mall when the bullets started to fly. She wrote on a blog that she "had a queezy feeling about being in the mall and needed to get out"

That's some fucked up "Final Destintion" shit right there!

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/crime-and-justice/Colorado+shooting+victims+narrowly+missed+Eaton/6965351/story.html

[PQHooligan]

It's still very surreal to hear my town being mentioned on CNN - he went to one of my rival high schools, and the rest of his family has been hounded all day by helicopters and media coverage

The count as it stands is 12 dead, 58 wounded by either gunfire/shrapnel/teargas, 70 total people involved in this tragedy, making it the biggest massacre in U.S. history

I can only hope the apartment he has in Colorado will be diffused without any further injury - I still cannot believe he lived essentially right around the corner from me

Those who were/are affected by this tragedy will be in my thoughts.

[Jinsai]

The count as it stands is 12 dead, 58 wounded by either gunfire/shrapnel/teargas, 70 total people involved in this tragedy, making it the biggest massacre in U.S. history

Ok... I don't want to diminish how profoundly horrifying what's happened here is, but from my immediate memory I know that over 30 people died in the Virginia Tech shootings.

On a completely unrelated note... I'm a little shocked by the insane flood of meme humor related to this. I don't get it. Why is this even remotely funny? I've run into endless lame jokes, like "guess the new Batman is making a killing at the box office, huh?"
It's not just unfunny because it's insensitive, it's just fucking not funny. People usually feel guilty about joking about things like this... I don't understand why that filter isn't here in this situation. Are people just getting this jaded?

[thelastdisciple]

On a completely unrelated note... I'm a little shocked by the insane flood of meme humor related to this. I don't get it. Why is this even remotely funny? I've run into endless lame jokes, like "guess the new Batman is making a killing at the box office, huh?"
It's not just unfunny because it's insensitive, it's just fucking not funny.
Welcome to the internet post-4chan, Reddit, Imgur, Icanhascheezburger etc..

Everything has to have some stupid "funny" remark, everyone thinks they're a comedian. Nothing is sacred it seems.

[Harry Seaward]

Ok... I don't want to diminish how profoundly horrifying what's happened here is, but from my immediate memory I know that over 30 people died in the Virginia Tech shootings.

On a completely unrelated note... I'm a little shocked by the insane flood of meme humor related to this. I don't get it. Why is this even remotely funny? I've run into endless lame jokes, like "guess the new Batman is making a killing at the box office, huh?"
It's not just unfunny because it's insensitive, it's just fucking not funny. People usually feel guilty about joking about things like this... I don't understand why that filter isn't here in this situation. Are people just getting this jaded?


Welcome to the internet post-4chan, Reddit, Imgur, Icanhascheezburger etc..

Everything has to have some stupid "funny" remark, everyone thinks they're a comedian. Nothing is sacred it seems.

Humor's purpose is to make people not feel like shit. The midst of a tragedy is not only a good time, but a perfect time, to make jokes.

[DF118]

Humor's purpose is to make people not feel like shit. The midst of a tragedy is not only a good time, but a perfect time, to make jokes.

Except that that's utter nonsense. Making fun of a tragedy, during it, makes people feel worse. If not, there's something wrong with you.

[Jinsai]

Humor's purpose is to make people not feel like shit. The midst of a tragedy is not only a good time, but a perfect time, to make jokes.

and that's how The Onion has been dealing with this news, with smart satire. And yeah, it's funny in a gallows humor kind of way, but it's also dark and devoid of easy and moronic punchlines.... and they're actually saying something that isn't taking advantage of the disaster as the punchline.

This shit I've been seeing on my facebook feed though? It makes the people posting this stuff seem like unfunny monsters who think joking about mass murder is cute.

Like "Went to see The Dark Knight Rises in CO, theater's full :( Took a piss, came back and now the whole theater's empty! Win!"

That shit isn't funny. Not just because of insensitivity, but because the joke sucks. On a level that purely addresses the humor. That sucks. And if you want to say that this is "the best time for that" you're a fucking dork.

[Harry Seaward]

Except that that's utter nonsense. Making fun of a tragedy, during it, makes people feel worse. If not, there's something wrong with you.

Just because someone laughs at something doesn't mean they're happy about it. It's entirely possible to find a joke funny and still feel bad about the subject.


and that's how The Onion has been dealing with this news, with smart satire. And yeah, it's funny in a gallows humor kind of way, but it's also dark and devoid of easy and moronic punchlines.... and they're actually saying something that isn't taking advantage of the disaster as the punchline.

This shit I've been seeing on my facebook feed though? It makes the people posting this stuff seem like unfunny monsters who think joking about mass murder is cute.

Like "Went to see The Dark Knight Rises in CO, theater's full :( Took a piss, came back and now the whole theater's empty! Win!"

That shit isn't funny. Not just because of insensitivity, but because the joke sucks. On a level that purely addresses the humor. That sucks. And if you want to say that this is "the best time for that" you're a fucking dork.

Hey, I'll be the first to berate uninspired, shitty jokes any time. But I'm not going to say 'Well thought out social satire is acceptable during these times, but tired Facebook jokes aren't.' That distinction just seems arbitrary and silly to me.

[Amaro]

What's even more twisted, in a bizarre coincidental fucked up way is one of the victims was in the Toronto Eaton Centre mall shooting last month. Well, she literally just stepped outside of the mall when the bullets started to fly. She wrote on a blog that she "had a queezy feeling about being in the mall and needed to get out"

That's some fucked up "Final Destintion" shit right there!

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/crime-and-justice/Colorado+shooting+victims+narrowly+missed+Eaton/6965351/story.html

I don't know about you, but just to be clear my facepalms aren't always about shooting down something one has said. I had to literally facepalm this particularly for the whole bit about that specific victim's backstory.

[ManBurning]

I don't know about you, but just to be clear my facepalms aren't always about shooting down something one has said. I had to literally facepalm this particularly for the whole bit about that specific victim's backstory.

Alright, fair enough. I usually facepalm when someone says something ridiculious that I disagree with, but I can understand where you're coming from.
Should have just wrote an actual opinion about the victims backstory, that's what we're here for we're on a discussion forum, I linked that up to start a discussion on the lady and what if anything anyone thought about that, if it was just a random coincidence or what, because either way that's kinda weird.

But all things asside, it kind of makes me weary about going to a theatre now to be honest. I know you shouldn't live in fear, and the chances of this happening are 1 in 5 million, but It's still concerning. People say you can die at any time, on the bus to work, in a car crash, plane crash, knifed in the back-alley walking home at night.

But something about this just doesn't seem right, why a movie theatre, why at a Batman release? The suspect didn't seem to have any previous connections with anyone in that theatre, and it's suspicious that a unemployed med student would have this kind of money to buy SWAT team type equipment. He had on bullet proof vests, groin guards and the whole 9 yards. And yet he just surrended to the police without a fight, and then told them his apartment was rigged with expolosives that was a trap for them... Something seriously doesn't add up here.

This was not a random attack, this took extensive planning, but what were his motives, and was he working with someone else?

There are seriously some odd fucked up stories out there these days of people behaving abnormally and out of charachter as if they were under some sort of a mind control substance.

I'm sure with time when they get this guy talking when we maybe fill in some of the blanks here, who knows, maybe we'll never have an answer. But it is very sick whatever his plan was. Just too many fucked up people in the world today really makes you think twice about wanting to leave the house again.

[Amaro]

Alright, fair enough. I usually facepalm when someone says something ridiculious that I disagree with, but I can understand where you're coming from.
Should have just wrote an actual opinion about the victims backstory, that's what we're here for we're on a discussion forum, I linked that up to start a discussion on the lady and what if anything anyone thought about that, if it was just a random coincidence or what, because either way that's kinda weird.

But all things asside, it kind of makes me weary about going to a theatre now to be honest. I know you shouldn't live in fear, and the chances of this happening are 1 in 5 million, but It's still concerning. People say you can die at any time, on the bus to work, in a car crash, plane crash, knifed in the back-alley walking home at night.

But something about this just doesn't seem right, why a movie theatre, why at a Batman release? The suspect didn't seem to have any previous connections with anyone in that theatre, and it's suspicious that a unemployed med student would have this kind of money to buy SWAT team type equipment. He had on bullet proof vests, groin guards and the whole 9 yards. And yet he just surrended to the police without a fight, and then told them his apartment was rigged with expolosives that was a trap for them... Something seriously doesn't add up here.

This was not a random attack, this took extensive planning, but what were his motives, and was he working with someone else?

There are seriously some odd fucked up stories out there these days of people behaving abnormally and out of charachter as if they were under some sort of a mind control substance.

I'm sure with time when they get this guy talking when we maybe fill in some of the blanks here, who knows, maybe we'll never have an answer. But it is very sick whatever his plan was. Just too many fucked up people in the world today really makes you think twice about wanting to leave the house again.

This is all very tragic; I'm not in a disussing mood in regards to very specifically tragic bits on this whole subject such as that one. It's done, and all so bad. I have nothing really to say. So I facepalmed. This incident definitely hits me harder than if I just heard about it and didn't go to a midnight showing or even plan on it.

I personally wouldn't mind the implementation of a more clear security measure in place at all theaters. It wouldn't be unlike our country to do... To be honest I'm surprised we didn't already. I know some people would argue that instills more fear, yada yada, but something usually has to happen for us to consider it... Well, there you go.

I'd like to know more how he got in with that get-up... Did he enter the theater twice? Back door involved?

[aggroculture]

No I think it's been mentioned that he went in with everyone else, propped open an exit, and then put his gear on and re-entered.

[ambergris]

The "Dark Knight" fans are the most rabid fans on the Internet I've seen. I would guess that the shooter was partly inspired by Heath Ledger's Joker, in the sense that his mental illness made his mind focus on the kind of senseless violence that the Joker represents, "Some people just want to see the world burn..." etc... Also, I wonder if these shootings are only related to gun possession or to something else in addition. I suspect that these mass shootings wouldn't happen here even if gun rights were more liberal. I think America's social harshness, the over-medication of Americans, and the distrust of the government (conspiracy theories et al.) contribute to it.

[icklekitty]

Christopher Nolan's response to the incident (http://www.deadline.com/2012/07/christopher-nolan-speaks-about-tragedy) hits quite a few resonant notes for me (and a lot of us I imagine) as a moviegoer. Cancelling the Paris premiere was a nice gesture on his and Warner Bros. part.

As a gesture, it makes more sense. There was very little chance of there being a repeat, in Paris of all places (this is what I thought the reason for the cancellation was when I first heard about it).





In response to joymode from the RGH thread:

Then there's this: http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over-9000-murders-by-gun-in-us-39-in-uk.html
"Number of Murders, United States (http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/violent_crime/murder_homicide.html), 2009: 15,241Number of Murders by Firearms (http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_08.html), US, 2009: 9,146
Number of Murders, Britain, 2008* (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jul/16/crime-figures-recession-impact): 648
(Since Britain’s population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,240 US murders)
Number of Murders by[pdf] firearms (http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs10/hosb0110.pdf), Britain, 2008* 39
(equivalent to 195 US murders)"


This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblane_school_massacre)is why guns are illegal here. The ban was reactionary and almost immediate.





Also, apart from social pressure, I don't understand why the NRA deleted their tweet. Surely they would argue that their movement/message isn't affiliated with murderers anyway? Or that this guy had the right to bear arms? Essentially their movement/organisation/push to keep guns available and legal are what facilitated this.

[onthewall2983]

Warner Bros. will not report box office results this weekend 'out of respect for the victims' (http://www.imdb.com/news/ni32433384/)

[Harry Seaward]

Warner Bros. will not report box office results this weekend 'out of respect for the victims' (http://www.imdb.com/news/ni32433384/)

What the fuck? This, plus removing the advertising? It makes no goddamn sense. Warner Bros. didn't kill those people. They have no responsibility whatsoever to do anything, ethical or otherwise.

Well I'm guessing we're beyond the point of separating 'movie premiere' and 'mass shooting'. They seem to be one and the same now.

[october_midnight]

They have no responsibility. But uhhh...maybe it's just a gesture of kindness. Sort of a 'We know we're not responsible. Most of you know we're not responsible. But we're going to let the world recover. There's more important things to worry about right now.' kinda thing. Calm down, holy shit.

[Harry Seaward]

They have no responsibility. But uhhh...maybe it's just a gesture of kindness. Sort of a 'We know we're not responsible. Most of you know we're not responsible. But we're going to let the world recover. There's more important things to worry about right now.' kinda thing. Calm down, holy shit.

Well, with these 'gestures of kindness', they're doing nothing but digging themselves deeper into allowing the movie and the Batman name to bare the blame for this. Every news story is mentioning 'Batman'. There are tons of stupid-ass image macros popping up with a picture of Batman and some 'condolence' message.

This shooting has nothing to do with a fictional character or the fictional universe or the films. But the media needs to put a spin on this, so they're going to use a movie as a scapegoat while ignoring the root of the problem. They need someone to blame, they can't just accept that some people are crazy.

[onthewall2983]

You're both right from where I'm sitting, weird as it sounds.

[october_midnight]

Well, with these 'gestures of kindness', they're doing nothing but digging themselves deeper into allowing the movie and the Batman name to bare the blame for this. Every news story is mentioning 'Batman'.

That's because it happened at a screening of a Batman movie.


There are tons of stupid-ass image macros popping up with a picture of Batman and some 'condolence' message.

Welcome to social media in 2012.


This shooting has nothing to do with a fictional character or the fictional universe or the films. But the media needs to put a spin on this, so they're going to use a movie as a scapegoat while ignoring the root of the problem. They need someone to blame, they can't just accept that some people are crazy.

Welcome to news and the world in 2012. (see also: every year before it).

Perhaps we're just stating the obvious a bit much in this thread? Is it to be expected that Obama would make a statement? Yes, he's the president. Nolan? Yes, he's the director. Sure there's the part of us that knows in the year 2012, if they didn't, the media would destroy them for not doing so. But something as trivial as waiting until fucking Monday to release some box office numbers is hardly going to change the world.

[carpenoctem]

Roger Ebert weighs in. (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/21/opinion/weve-seen-this-movie-before.html?_r=1&smid=tw-share)

Like with most other things he says, I agree.

Me too. I love Ebert. And he's right: this is more of an issue of violence linked with publicity, not violence linked to the movies. Now there will be plenty of people on both sides, all sounding off on Facebook, as I've seen since yesterday: those who cluck in disapproval and announce that they will not be seeing the new Batman movie because violence in the media is encouraging this kind of insanity, and those who realize that the event itself was irrelevant, that at the center of this was a very sick man who (sooner or later) would've found any highly-publicized event where lots of people were going to show up and who would've done the exact same thing. If this took place at the Brave premiere a month ago, would we have started lobbying against archery and bears?

[Space Suicide]

Due to backlash with this, I hear they're going to up the security at movie theaters. It was a fluke and isn't a playing ground for such acts like this to occur. Just wrong, eh.

[littlemonkey613]

this might seem silly but my thoughts are with Nolan too. If I made art that preached a specific message and explored a theme through out the entire series and some mad man did the EXACT thing that is in direct opposition to the message of my art, (during the screening itself no less) I'd feel really conflicted and could not help but feel irrational guilt. These movies have a really hopeful and powerful message when it comes down to it and they explore exactly why this kind of shit is so wrong and horrible. Just ugh. How tragic. I can relate as an artist.

[october_midnight]

In response to joymode from the RGH thread: States with the highest gun ownership have more gun deaths. Imagine that. http://www.blogforarizona.com/.a/6a00d8341bf80c53ef0147e1b7ffa2970b-500wi Then there's this: http://www.juancole.com/2011/01/over-9000-murders-by-gun-in-us-39-in-uk.html "Number of Murders, United States (http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/violent_crime/murder_homicide.html), 2009: 15,241Number of Murders by Firearms (http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_08.html), US, 2009: 9,146 Number of Murders, Britain, 2008* (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jul/16/crime-figures-recession-impact): 648 (Since Britain’s population is 1/5 that of US, this is equivalent to 3,240 US murders) Number of Murders by[pdf] firearms (http://rds.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs10/hosb0110.pdf), Britain, 2008* 39 (equivalent to 195 US murders)" A chart like this...I honestly (and call me naive all day) cannot fathom how anyone could not see this is painfully obvious. Look at the difference between Canada and the U.S. Detroit and Windsor are separated by a RIVER. Windsor hasn't had a murder since something like 2009. I of course get that Detroit has more people, etc. etc. but whenever I see a comparison between two places so seemingly interconnected, I can't help but wonder about how the gun laws could make a dramatic impact. Also, Associated Press has announced that Sony, Fox, Disney, Universal and Lionsgate are joining " The Dark Knight Rises" distributor Warner Bros. in withholding box-office numbers out of respect for the victims.

[Sutekh]

In the UK, we had a shooting in a school in the mid to late nineties... We outlawed pistols and made checks for rifles and shotguns more stringent. We havent had any school shootings since, and in the past 15 years i think we've had maybe half a dozen public disorders involving firearms, and every year only about 50 people are killed ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6960431.stm ). Compare that to america and explain the discrepency... The population is smaller, but the difference is still disproportionate. Also The situation has not descended into a country where only criminals wield firearms.

I agree a total ban on firearms might cause problems, but clearly the US needs more regulation.... There IS a problem, and there are precedents where we can see regulation having a positive effect. Yet to hear a decent counter argument... The culture convinces people they need guns, imo

[october_midnight]

Of course, take this with a grain of salt the size of a boulder, but my friend just showed me an article saying the shooting shows signs of being staged (http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_james_holmes_shooting_false_flag.html?fb_co mment_id=fbc_10151280867989418_27164354_1015128121 9264418#f2430d203#ixzz21efwpmav) by someone else, and that Holmes was just a pawn.

I know, it's far fetched...but bear with me. Some of it does raise some insane questions. How an unemployed med student afforded what is now known to be $20K in military gear is one that sticks out for me. Anyways, an interesting read.

[Nyx]

How the media should (not) handle mass murder(er)s:
You can skip to 1:40 to hear the psychiatrist.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4)

[Magtig]

This (http://daveholmes.tumblr.com/post/27705874429) short article does a very effective job of asking the question, 'How could this scene have played out if everyone in the theater had been packing a gun?'



RE: Signs of Being Staged Article
20k isn't that hard to get, especially when done over time. The article itself addresses readers, more knowledgeable about the products of paranoia, who say it all cost closer to 10k, and then goes on to say the difference between 10k, and 20k doesn't matter. Yes, actually, it does matter, especially in this case. Then it goes on about how governments around the world killed millions of their citizens after disarming them, and says a bunch of stuff about how the 'Fast and Furious' debacle was a secret plot to overturn second amendment rights.

I stopped reading after that.

[Jinsai]

This (http://daveholmes.tumblr.com/post/27705874429) short article does a very effective job of asking the question, 'How could this scene have played out if everyone in the theater had been packing a gun?'

I've been seeing a surprisingly large number of people echoing the sentiment that the situation could have been avoided if there were armed people in the theater, and this sums up my immediate reaction to that pretty succinctly... although you can add the concern that this audience had additionally been blasted with tear gas.

Some people are so heavily invested in the argument that "the solution to gun violence is more guns" that they don't even rationally consider the situation.

[WorzelG]

Surely more people (including unstable people) carrying guns to defend themselves just adds to unfounded paranoia and would lead to more Trayvon Martin / Zimmerman situations. Tragic though this event is, it's still pretty unlikely to happen to you.

Feel really horrible for the people who just went to see a film and this happened to them though

[ManBurning]

Of course, take this with a grain of salt the size of a boulder, but my friend just showed me an article saying the shooting shows signs of being staged (http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_james_holmes_shooting_false_flag.html?fb_co mment_id=fbc_10151280867989418_27164354_1015128121 9264418#f2430d203#ixzz21efwpmav) by someone else, and that Holmes was just a pawn.

I know, it's far fetched...but bear with me. Some of it does raise some insane questions. How an unemployed med student afforded what is now known to be $20K in military gear is one that sticks out for me. Anyways, an interesting read.

yeah, I read that article yesterday. Made me think alot about the situation, it does ask alot of good questions, like where he can afford all the equipment and where he learned how to Booby trap his apartment with explosives. Thinking there might be someone else invovled.

I was thinking about posting the article here last night, but from my experience with ETS folks and "natural news" they think it's the biggest quackery website on the internet. Still, I enjoyed the read and it does raise alot of questions.

It almost seems to odd that this guy would invest in all this equipment as though he was ready for a serious fight and then he just hands himself down to Police without a fight and then tells them his apartment is rigged with traps, almost like he DIDN'T want to do it and someone else was invovled.

[Magtig]

yeah, I read that article yesterday. Made me think alot about the situation, it does ask alot of good questions, like where he can afford all the equipment and where he learned how to Booby trap his apartment with explosives. Thinking there might be someone else invovled.

I was thinking about posting the article here last night, but from my experience with ETS folks and "natural news" they think it's the biggest quackery website on the internet. Still, I enjoyed the read and it does raise alot of questions.

It almost seems to odd that this guy would invest in all this equipment as though he was ready for a serious fight and then he just hands himself down to Police without a fight and then tells them his apartment is rigged with traps, almost like he DIDN'T want to do it and someone else was invovled.

Oooor... he said something like, "You'll see when you go to my apartment, coppers!" *evil laugh*

Also, if I can learn circuit bending and video editing by watching youtube, someone sure as hell can learn how to booby trap their apartment and build explosives. You really can learn anything with the internets. Maybe not youtube, but I'm sure it's out there. This information isn't new. Ever heard of the anarchist's cookbook?

[Jinsai]

uggggggggh...

So I just stumbled on this "article" (http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_James_Holmes_shooting_false_flag.html#ixzz2 1DAN18Ha) that seems to be arguing that this disaster was a government conspiracy, with the end goal of reigniting support for gun control...

I think it's too soon to decide whether or not this shooter was insane, but the jury's out on the crazy asshole who wrote that article.

[Magtig]

Yeah, that's the article that OM posted on the previous page.

[Jinsai]

Yeah, that's the article that OM posted on the previous page.


Whoops.

Well, in response, the article is intentionally misleading and dishonest.
This is the most generous estimation of the costs of his arsenal that I've seen. One estimate I saw had the cost of his equipment coming in at about a quarter of their amount. It's also completely dishonest to say that the weapons and gear are not available to the public... it's convenient that the writer doesn't specify which items were so hard to obtain (maybe because then a more skeptical reader could easily just check for themselves?). Really, do an ebay search for "body armor." You'll find cheap bulletproof vests and used riot gear. Should we give the author the benefit of the doubt and assume he's never heard of Ebay, or should we conclude that he's intentionally being deceptive in order to further sell his crackpot theory?

And even if the total cost of all his gear came out to 20,000 dollars, are we really going to suddenly pretend that's a lot of money, especially for someone who probably knew he was going to go to jail or die in the aftermath.

Then there's the stretch where it's implied that he would need extensive training to pull this off. We can speculate about the apartment bomb trap, but we don't even have specifics about that yet... but is the author actually implying that it's really hard to figure out how to put on the armor and fire a gun?

Additionally, he makes a "point" about how governments are willing to sacrifice their own citizens "routinely" by bringing up examples like Hitler and Stalin.

This article is a load of horseshit.

[DF118]

This article is a load of horseshit.

That site absolutely reeks of scientology. It would not surprise me whatsoever this was a front.

[Magtig]

To further kick the shit out of that stupid article, James Holmes was an honor student. You're going to tell me that guy couldn't figure how to booby trap his home? Or that he couldn't find good prices on armor on eBay? By the way, on that armor thing, many military families buy armor for their children and send it to them because somehow, despite spending more than the next 26 nations below us combined on military shit, they don't supply the troops with what they need. You know what they say, where's there demand..

http://gawker.com/5927911 (http://gawker.com/5927911)

"He was an honor student, so academically he was at the top of the top. He really distinguished himself from an academic point of view during his four years with us, graduating with highest honors."

[Conan The Barbarian]

http://mashable.com/2012/07/21/batman-visit-victims/

Good idea or inappropriate?

[miss k bee]

http://mashable.com/2012/07/21/batman-visit-victims/

Good idea or inappropriate?

Totally rubbish idea.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2176377/Gunman-massacred-12-movie-premiere-used-drugs-killed-Batman-star-Heath-Ledger-messaged-web-lovers-ask--Will-visit-prison.html

genetic mental illness?

[Amaro]

Crazy... I found out that a friend of mine knows Sam Yowler, girlfriend of Matt McQuinn, who is said to have saved both the life of Sam and her brother by guarding them from the line of fire on their isle, when James Holmes was shooting down it. Matt is one of the 12 who died.

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

Of course, take this with a grain of salt the size of a boulder, but my friend just showed me an article saying the shooting shows signs of being staged (http://www.naturalnews.com/036536_james_holmes_shooting_false_flag.html?fb_co mment_id=fbc_10151280867989418_27164354_1015128121 9264418#f2430d203#ixzz21efwpmav) by someone else, and that Holmes was just a pawn.

I know, it's far fetched...but bear with me. Some of it does raise some insane questions. How an unemployed med student afforded what is now known to be $20K in military gear is one that sticks out for me. Anyways, an interesting read.
Um, how he afforded the gear is a pretty interesting question, and I'm sure we'll know more as details follow investigation and trial. Where that $20,000 figure is coming from is also, um, and interesting question, inre: that article.

The rest of the bullshit at that link, posted by notorious crankpot Mike Adams of his crank kingdom Natural News, ally/lackey of Alex Jones and Infowars, is utterly preposterous. Mike Adams couldn't add one and one to make two even if he was cheating off someone else's homework.



I think it's too soon to decide whether or not this shooter was insane, but the jury's out on the crazy asshole who wrote that article.
Mike Adams already kinda has his own thread here at ETS:
http://www.echoingthesound.org/community/threads/932-Human-Civilization-on-the-Brink-of-Extinction

[slave2thewage]

Apparently Westboro is protesting the funerals of the victims. Since Old Fred is probably at death's door, can someone go to Topeka when he finally kicks the bucket and sing my parody of their parody of Telephone? It's called Skullfuck and about raping his corpse once the family have left the grave.

[themethatyouknow]

I've been seeing a surprisingly large number of people echoing the sentiment that the situation could have been avoided if there were armed people in the theater, and this sums up my immediate reaction to that pretty succinctly... although you can add the concern that this audience had additionally been blasted with tear gas.

Some people are so heavily invested in the argument that "the solution to gun violence is more guns" that they don't even rationally consider the situation.

The view that more guns is the answer isn't only idiotic, it also ignores the reality of Colorado gun laws. Concealed weapons permits are widely available and easy to get here. There was absolutely nothing preventing a bunch of gun toting would-be heroes from being in that theater and killing this guy. It didn't happen, not because laws prohibit it, but because that sort of thing is just a fantasy. It never actually works in real life. Partly because of all the confusion in the immediacy of the situation, and partly because the macho redneck heroes of the world get just as fucking scared as everyone else in those situations.

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

Also because the shooter's being preceded by tear gas makes things a bit more difficult than just whipping it out and saying "BANG BANG MOTHERFUCKER!" in addition to the other very human qualities that affect people in these wholly unexpected stressful situations in the dark, ten minutes into a Batman movie in a filled-to-capacity panicked movie theater.

[Conan The Barbarian]

The new York post went ahead and nicknamed him the joker. I hate the media.

[jessamineny]

The new York post went ahead and nicknamed him the joker. I hate the media.

The New York Post is sensationalistic. That's it's thing. Just like Fox News paints its broadcasts with a conservative brush.

Learn to be discriminating.

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

And just like Fox News, the New York Post is owned by Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation.

[WorzelG]

The view that more guns is the answer isn't only idiotic, it also ignores the reality of Colorado gun laws. Concealed weapons permits are widely available and easy to get here. There was absolutely nothing preventing a bunch of gun toting would-be heroes from being in that theater and killing this guy. It didn't happen, not because laws prohibit it, but because that sort of thing is just a fantasy. It never actually works in real life. Partly because of all the confusion in the immediacy of the situation, and partly because the macho redneck heroes of the world get just as fucking scared as everyone else in those situations.

Not according to Mike Adams of Natural News who should be in the Marines apparently. This guy is such a twat

http://www.naturalnews.com/036537_James_Holmes_Batman_shooting.html

[henryeatscereal]

Crazy Son of a Bitch (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/world/batman-shooter-james-holmes-acting-crazy-spitting-on-guards-in-jail/story-fnd12peo-1226432347969)

[Sutekh]

Sounds like a tedious wanker! Wooo I'm the joker. Zzzzz. Messiah complex, except he's pumped full of pop culture so he pretends to be the joker instead of jesus. Just like that snuff video guy, it would be mundane if he hadnt resorted to murder to prop up his fantasy

[marodi]

How about instead of this sparking a debate on gun control, it sparks a debate on mental health care?

EDIT: I just found this article and everyone in this thread should read it. (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/22/opinion/sunday/the-unknown-why-in-the-aurora-killings.html?_r=1)

How about this finally wakes up people on the merits of having much much severe gun control laws so that those with mental health problems have more difficulties getting access to them before they are diagnosed and get the help they desperately need?

Very interesting article, by the way.

[Wretchedest]

Ive had this theory that at some point during the shooting he had a sudden sense of remorse or regret, faced with the horrific reality of what he had doen, which would explain his complacent attitude upon being caught, and maybe his current silent shocked attituse...

[Amaro]

I don't know at what point, but apparently one of his guns jammed...

Anyhow, I really don't know what to make of his latest behavior. It was reported he was acting crazy in his cell...spitting about...now, this overall look in court... Drugged/Sedated, shocked, tired, psychotic, or acting...?

Edit: After viewing enough, I'd put my money on him being on something in this court footage. Gotta be. I'm pretty sure I see his pupils even dilated.

[Elke]

Anyhow, I really don't know what to make of his latest behavior. It was reported he was acting crazy in his cell...spitting about...now, this overall look in court... Drugged/Sedated, shocked, tired, psychotic, or acting...?

If he was acting violently after the shooting chances are pretty good he was psychotic, in which case they probably have him on some strong antipsychotics, which actually makes perfect sense. Psychosis is a medical problem, much like having the flue or stomach aches, so if there's medication to help fix that problem, he probably should get it.

On a side-note, I find it quite upsetting that the whole mental health issue is not really being debated properly. It reminds me of a Belgian case a couple of years ago where a young man entered a daycare center and killed some children and caretakers, and the issue of his mental health was framed in the media as a cop-out or a way to escape his due punishment. I get the public's lack of understanding, but I hate it when the media go all-out populist and feed into the bullshit instead of taking time to explain what certain diagnosis could mean and how that would effect judgement.

[WorzelG]

I recall his mum seemed pretty resigned to the fact that her son did this, which makes you wonder if he was on someone's radar but didn't get treatment for whatever reason.

The thing you mention above about mental illness, I think people just need to be reassured that if someone is violently psychotic, help them by all means, but just don't release them into society unless it's controlled. Also people get more upset when children are attacked because they are so vulnerable, same with the elderly

[Sutekh]

We need screening of all schoolkids! Psych students can volunteer to do it to beef up their CVs. Suspects can be flagged and monitored early. I honestly believe it is a choice between orwellian social services or being at the mercy of spree killers

[themethatyouknow]

We need screening of all schoolkids! Psych students can volunteer to do it to beef up their CVs. Suspects can be flagged and monitored early. I honestly believe it is a choice between orwellian social services or being at the mercy of spree killers

I think I'll stick with the spree killers.

Seriously, that kind of screening would never work because the inexperienced students doing the evaluations would be so afraid of letting one slip through the cracks, that they'd flag way too many kids. Then you'd have such a long list of potential suspects that there would be no viable way to monitor them. Unless you plan on just sending them all away. In which case, again I think we're better off with the occasional mass murder.

[Wretchedest]

I know quite a few people with some form of psychosis. I've personally had to commit a few of them and it was absolutely a nightmare the whole way through.
I don't know that his guy is like that. The people I knew were disfunctional the moment their episodes started, and they certainly would not have been competent enough to do the sort of planning and rigging that he did. I'll admit that some of his behaviour does resemble that, but on the other hand it just seems odd that he would go even a few days into a psychotic episode and nobody would notice or do anything.

[Elke]

We need screening of all schoolkids! Psych students can volunteer to do it to beef up their CVs. Suspects can be flagged and monitored early. I honestly believe it is a choice between orwellian social services or being at the mercy of spree killers

It wouldn't work. First of all, because 'spree killers' are only named 'spree killers' because that's what they do. Despire what Criminal Minds wants you to believe, not every spree killer has the same pathology. Secondly because your brain isn't formed fully before you're 18 (sometimes up to 21) and so you cannot make a diagnosis of any of the personality disorders, including sociopathic personality disorder which is most commonly linked to spree killers. And thirdly, like themethatyouknow said, because we'll just have a fuckload of false positives because most teenagers actually are little psychopaths.

[ManBurning]

Saw this on my news feed in facebook, the poster never gave a link or anything to this, but thought I would add it in here.

‎"3 arrested in separate US 'Dark Knight' incident

This undated photograph released by the Maine State Police shows weapons gathered from the home and vehicle of Timothy Courtois, of Biddeford, Maine, who was arrested Sunday, July 22, 2012 on charges of having a concealed weapon and speeding on the Maine Turnpike. Found in his car were an assault weapon, four handguns and several boxes of ammunition. A search of his home revealed several additional weapons, including a machine gun, and thousands of rounds of ammunition. Courtois told authorities he was on his way to Derry, N.H., to shoot a former employer. He also said he had attended the Batman movie the previous night. (AP Photo/Maine State Police)
At least 3 men accused of making threats during or after watching the new Batman movie have been arrested in separate incidents, underscoring U.S. moviegoers' anxieties and heightened security in the wake of a deadly mass shooting at a Colorado thea...tre showing the film.
Moviegoers in Sierra Visa, Arizona, panicked when a man who appeared intoxicated was confronted during a showing of the movie. The Cochise County Sheriff's office said it caused "mass hysteria" and about 50 people fled the theatre.
Michael William Borboa, 27, was arrested on suspicion of disorderly conduct, and threatening and intimidating.
A Maine man was arrested when he told authorities that he was on his way to shoot a former employer a day after watching "The Dark Knight Rises," Maine state police said Monday.
Timothy Courtois of Biddeford, Maine, had been stopped for speeding, and a police search of his car found an AK-47 assault weapon, four handguns, ammunition and news clippings about the mass shooting that left 12 people dead early Friday, authorities said.
In Southern California, a man at a Sunday afternoon showing of the film was arrested after witnesses said he made threats and alluded to the Colorado shooting when the movie didn't start.
Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies were called to a cinema complex in Norwalk after moviegoers said 52-year-old Clark Tabor shouted: "I should go off like in Colorado." They said he then asked: "Does anybody have a gun?"
A security guard saw Tabor with a backpack on his knees in the second row, but deputies who searched the bag, the theatre and its surrounding area did not find any weapon."



The Article then went on to talk about the box office numbers of the film etc and I found that rathr innapropriate for this thread so I omitted that part.

So my question then is... Why is this movie making people go ballistic? Are there some cryptic messages or something deep within the movie? I haven't seen it, so I have no idea.

[october_midnight]

Nope. This type of shit happens everywhere every day. Since it happened at a big blockbuster movie, the media will only mention the stories from the same movie for the next few months. Nothing new. Thought that was pretty easily figured out.

[Wretchedest]

Its a copycat thing, Im sure.

[Amaro]

I recall his mum seemed pretty resigned to the fact that her son did this, which makes you wonder if he was on someone's radar but didn't get treatment for whatever reason.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2012/07/23/james-holmes-mother-abc-news-colorado-shootings_n_1696319.html?ir=Media

[Sutekh]

Because there's more than one profile, don't bother at all? Also are you certain it's not possible to discern any warning signs before the age of 18?. I get the feeling stuff like he macdonald triad is outdated, but surely there are developmental warning signs one can look out for, and when an individual's profile shows a convergence of characteristics, start watching them more closely. Or do they just not exist?

I agree it would be a long list to begin with, but it could be whittled down. Or not... I just wonder why social services can't operate more like the security services do, are young people really so complex that it is useless to try and ascertain who might be a threat?

Edit - old brief on school shootings is quite interesting, says profiles are myriad & profiling is useless http://neuro.bcm.edu/eagleman/neurolaw/papers/%5BSecretService%5DSchoolShooters2000.pdf

[orestes]

Christian Bale visiting Aurora shooting victims. (http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21147699)

I have to honestly say I got a little misty looking at the hospital photo.

[WorzelG]

That's a pretty bad misrepresentation of what she said

This to Magrao above (wish you could quote posts better on this)

[Amaro]

That's a pretty bad misrepresentation of what she said

This to Magrao above (wish you could quote posts better on this)

I know, right? If she's in fact telling the truth. I'd have to say I believe her though... Lousy media.

[orestes]

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7ovh6pr2B1rtdcj7o5_1280.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7ovh6pr2B1rtdcj7o3_1280.jpg

[DF118]

I'd be fucking crushed if I was him.

[Conan The Barbarian]

I went to my second viewing earlier tonight.

This dude got up, went to the exit door and just stood there holding the door open. I observed the crowd, and people were all looking at each other. Some got up and left. Two men from the audience went to approach the dude. Turns out he was just smoking a cigarette. He quickly went to his seat.

Now, I know it was a dumb move on the smoker's part due to the recent event. I think people need to calm down and not get so fucking freaked out. This is like the new 9/11 with words like "Terrorism" being thrown around.

ugh, fuck James Holmes or whatever the fuck his name is.

[Amaro]

It was more than a dumb move. He is either idiotic, a fucking douchebag, or a goddamn rock dweller.

Pretty understandable to get up and leave...or approach him.

Not a week from the incident, you can't expect much else from people.

[ManBurning]

I went to my second viewing earlier tonight.

This dude got up, went to the exit door and just stood there holding the door open. I observed the crowd, and people were all looking at each other. Some got up and left. Two men from the audience went to approach the dude. Turns out he was just smoking a cigarette. He quickly went to his seat.

Now, I know it was a dumb move on the smoker's part due to the recent event. I think people need to calm down and not get so fucking freaked out. This is like the new 9/11 with words like "Terrorism" being thrown around.

ugh, fuck James Holmes or whatever the fuck his name is.

Yeah, i'm worried to go to a theatre now as well. I want to go check out this movie, but now i'm skeptical about going to a theatre. These days we can't ride a Greyhound bus without getting our head chopped off, a plane without it being hijacked and now go to a school mall or a movie theatre without having to worry about getting shot.

I know it's a little ridiculious to let events like this decide how to live your life, it's really unfair actually. I mean shit like this is gonna happen regardless where you are. It's really bad luck of the draw and being at the wrong place/bus/train/car/school/mall at the wrong time. There is a 50% chance you will die on your walk/bike/ride to work or school every morning as well.

I think what it boils down to is we need to accept death. We are all going to die sooner or later. We could even die in our sleep or of natural causes. Guess I don't have a good grasp on death yet, it's just really weird thinking any one of these people could have been someone you worked with and then you go to work back from your weekend to find out said person will no longer be coming to work again. It's a really weird thought. Just thinking how it could have been anyone I knew. My thoughts really go out to all the families and loved ones that lost people in this massacre, especially those women who's boyfriends protected them by shielding them from the bullets! Those ladies have to live with that for THE REST OF THEIR LIVES! That their boyfriend took a bullet for them and died... That's gonna make for their next relationship to have quite a high bar to live up to... You know the age old saying when you tell a friend or relitive "I would take a bullet for you" - well these guys actually did! That's pure courage there, it's fine to say you could take a bullet for someone, but when it comes to actually being face to face in that scenario, how many people really could.

Just really makes you think how fragile and short our lives really are, and I wasn't even one of the people in that theatre or had any connections to anyone in there and this has really gotten to me this much. Really makes me want to appreciate my friends and girlfriend more and tell them how much I care about them while they are still alive knowing at any minute some sicko can do something fucked up like this and they can be at that wrong place at the wrong time.

[Sutekh]

Manburning... All you have to do is realise what is likely to happen and what isn't, don't become paranoid.

[WorzelG]

ManBurning - I take issue with your 50% probability of dying just leaving the house, you have to take all the many probabilities and add them up - it depends where you live, but even if you cross a street without looking it's still more likely that a driver will see you and attempt to stop, and still may not mean certain death unless the car was speeding.

Look at the incident mentioned above, people are on the lookout now at those films so I think the likelihood of someone pulling this off is way reduced, so go see it! Could be one of the safest places to be now

[theruiner]

ManBurning - I take issue with your 50% probability of dying just leaving the house, you have to take all the many probabilities and add them up - it depends where you live, but even if you cross a street without looking it's still more likely that a driver will see you and attempt to stop, and still may not mean certain death unless the car was speeding.And even then, your chances are way higher- way, way, way higher- that you'll die getting hit by a car than you being in a movie theater when a deranged person comes in and starts killing people. I don't know what the odds are of that actually happening to any given person, but I've got to imagine they're staggeringly low. You're probably more likely to win the lotto than be shot while watching a movie.

[ManBurning]

Manburning... All you have to do is realise what is likely to happen and what isn't, don't become paranoid.

Easier said than done, as I think nowadays ANYTHING is likely to happen. Expect the unexpected because to be honest, I would have put the likliness off a theatre shooting in the "unlikely to happen" category last week.


And even then, your chances are way higher- way, way, way higher- that you'll die getting hit by a car than you being in a movie theater when a deranged person comes in and starts killing people. I don't know what the odds are of that actually happening to any given person, but I've got to imagine they're staggeringly low. You're probably more likely to win the lotto than be shot while watching a movie.

Like I just wrote in response to Sutekh, last week I would have agreed with you that the chances in dying in a derranged movie shooting would be slim to none, the percentage would be soooo ridiculiously low it wouldn't even phase me, HOWEVER - the next few weeks (or months) the probability of a theatre shooting has a much, much higher percentage now, even if it's a fraction of a percent, due to copycat killers. You read the article above where there were 3 other incidents where people were "attempting" this, or at least crying wolf about it, and you can thank the media for that, it's the talk of the world right now, biggest topic out there, so some loonie is gonna get a grand idea to try this himself... it's already happening, can't say you didn't expect it, it's the same thing that happened with columbine. Columbine was the first shooting in decades (that we heard about anyway) There were those school massacres (One was in Montreal* I beleive, another in Ohio** if i'm not mistaken, sorry a little rusty on my pre 90s news stories)... but as soon as columbine happened, it seems like kids all across the globe got the grand idea to start shooting up their schoools. You heard about Johnny, Mack, Billy and Steve from tim-buck-fucking-no-man's land-two trying to attempt his own school shooting because he thought Eric and Dylan were "Heroes".

Don't be so sure to jump to conclusions over the next couple weeks/months to think the odds of this are "staggeringly low". In a few months time, yeah this will blow over and everyone will move on to the next big news story and be less weary about this happening again.

EDIT: (massacres I was thinking of)
*École Polytechnique massacre - Dec 6, 1989

**Kent State shootings - May 4, 1970

[orestes]

You shouldn't let fear dictate your life.

[jessamineny]

In 2010 alone, in the U.S. and Canada, 1.339 BILLION people went to the movies. Nobody got shot. Nor in any of the years before.

There were 38,974 indoor movie screens in the United States in 2011. If only one movie was shown on each screen every day of the year (and you know MULTIPLE showings are held on most each day), there would have been 14,225,510 movie screenings in 2011.

Let's assume there are the same number of screens today. There has been ONE shooting in a screening out of (way) more than 14 million. No cause for panic. Go enjoy yourself at the movies.

[DF118]

There was a massacre in a primary school in Scotland in 1996, 16 children and 1 teacher were murdered. Aside from the almost immediate and highly successful outlawing of hand guns in the UK (except Northern Ireland), there was another effect here- a lot of primary schools got themselves fitted with cameras and close circuit systems to help prevent future tragedy. Note there wasn't likely to be future tragedies of a similar nature- the outfitting was arguably just reactionary. It made people feel more secure, but it's not like massacres in Scottish primary schools were a regular occurrence.

Getting yourself scared that something's going to happen, because it's happened before, actually makes it more likely that something's going to happen. If everyone's walking around like coiled springs waiting to jump, eventually they'll jump. Then you end up with situations in which people accost someone for leaving a theatre to go smoke a cigarette, on the one hand, and an increase of gun related crime on the other as everyone gears up in the name of protection.

The three who were arrested because of threats made during the course of the movie? Bet you anything they'd have made threats regardless of the Holmes shooting. It's just that people are more likely to phone the police now because they're shitting themselves.

[Amaro]

Man, I bet you I'm about as seriously paranoid as you are about a lot of stuff. I personally would see the movie again if I had the extra money, and while I wouldn't necessarily be fearful, I'd be remorseful which would then transfer to imagining the fear that the victims must have felt. I hope you do go while it's in theaters, and if you do I hope you can enjoy yourself at least most of the way. Maybe going in the daytime would help in some way.

The best thing I can advise is practicing preparedness, in general...doing that alone over time may ease a racing mind. In the end it's really the only thing to look to, if you're not already running away from whatever may be remotely fearful to you in your head.

Statistics often don't work well on paranoid types. For a classic example--I hate flying, and I'm well aware of the numbers versus road travel... For me it's a fear of heights+being without control, and ultimately the quality of risk of flight as opposed to quantity.

[sweeterthan]

Fear can be an irrational phenomenon that most everyone experiences in some form or another. I'll admit I almost didn't want to see the movie after the shooting but I am so glad I did. It was great in IMAX. I think I liked it better than the first two. I did think of the aurora victims several times during the movie and even questioned my decision to wear flip flops in case an insane person with a gun decided to ruin our lives. But I can't live in fear of all the bad things that happen or I would never get to experience anything. I was almost killed in a car accident that my mother died in 20 years ago. I still have fears about driving but I do it everyday. Anything CAN happen but letting fear dictate your life will limit your experiences. I hope you go see the movie, ManBurning.

[orestes]

Here's to doing the right thing. (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_COLORADO_SHOOTING_MEDICAL_BILLS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-07-25-18-56-36)

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

Your chances of dropping dead now, right now, of a heart attack, are higher than your chances of getting shot to death in a movie theater, ManBurning. Tomorrow you could slip in the shower and split your skull and bleed to death naked and alone, and it would have been more likely than your getting shot at the supermarket or crashed in a terrorist airplane plot. And more than either of these, you have a small but significant chance every single time you get into a car that you'll never make it to your destination.


If there's another movie theater massacre, or two, or ten, your odds of being killed in one are in fact still staggeringly low.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

See, Bale showing up is one thing. That was a great gesture in itself. But THAT is one hell of a helping hand if I've ever seen one.

Also, apparently there's some thing going around about Lil Wayne's new video, "My Homies Still." There are random shots of him and his "homies" dancing in a movie theater with a bunch of skeletons toward the end, and for like, two seconds, there are twelve skeletons in the frame. Before that, there are more - after that, there are less - every time the shot cuts away.

The fact that people are even making a thing about it is kind of...well, stupid. And kind of insulting to the victims. People's attention's being taken away from the situation and being directed to Lil Wayne's video. I know I'm not helping the whole thing by bringing it up, but has anyone else seen this crud? Even the video's comment section is now filled with conspiracy theorists and Lil Wayne fans - arguably, two of the worst groups of people on the planet.

Edit: V Nah man, Lil Wayne knew about it. Illuminati mastermind. READ BETWEEN THE LINES!...

[Jinsai]

See, Bale showing up is one thing. That was a great gesture in itself. But THAT is one hell of a helping hand if I've ever seen one.

Also, apparently there's some thing going around about Lil Wayne's new video, "My Homies Still." There are random shots of him and his "homies" dancing in a movie theater with a bunch of skeletons toward the end, and for like, two seconds, there are twelve skeletons in the frame. Before that, there are more - after that, there are less - every time the shot cuts away.

The fact that people are even making a thing about it is kind of...well, stupid. And kind of insulting to the victims. People's attention's being taken away from the situation and being directed to Lil Wayne's video. I know I'm not helping the whole thing by bringing it up, but has anyone else seen this crud? Even the video's comment section is now filled with conspiracy theorists and Lil Wayne fans - arguably, two of the worst groups of people on the planet.

Lil Wayne's video came out a couple days before the shooting. Pure coincidence

[Frozen Beach]

I don't understand this fear of death. I'm going to live for the people who lost their lives. I'm not going to live in fear of the one who took them. I don't think anyone should live in fear. I think when people commit such horrific acts, they want you to live in fear. Why give them what they want?

[Amaro]

It's not out of any of a/the killer's wishes ...it's simply all human. It's
natural to fear death. It's natural to have unshakable fears, even statistically irrational ones at times. I don't think any explanation is needed past that.

Sometimes it's just something some people have to go through. And I believe in this case of a newly developed fear for some, it's largely about the shock of it for them...it may run deeper than they realize. It's not as much about going to a flick right now and genuinely believing their theater will be next. Sure, clearly some are not ready to go even buy a ticket, obviously that's because they're not at that point yet. It's a process.

[icklekitty]

There was a massacre in a primary school in Scotland in 1996, 16 children and 1 teacher were murdered. Aside from the almost immediate and highly successful outlawing of hand guns in the UK (except Northern Ireland), there was another effect here- a lot of primary schools got themselves fitted with cameras and close circuit systems to help prevent future tragedy. Note there wasn't likely to be future tragedies of a similar nature- the outfitting was arguably just reactionary. It made people feel more secure, but it's not like massacres in Scottish primary schools were a regular occurrence.

Getting yourself scared that something's going to happen, because it's happened before, actually makes it more likely that something's going to happen. If everyone's walking around like coiled springs waiting to jump, eventually they'll jump. Then you end up with situations in which people accost someone for leaving a theatre to go smoke a cigarette, on the one hand, and an increase of gun related crime on the other as everyone gears up in the name of protection.

The three who were arrested because of threats made during the course of the movie? Bet you anything they'd have made threats regardless of the Holmes shooting. It's just that people are more likely to phone the police now because they're shitting themselves.

Also look at our reaction to 7/7 - people could not wait to get back on the tube and buses to show the terrorists that they had not succeeded. There's no reason why this should be any different. (The same thing didn't happen with 9/11, but I think due to us being more used to terrorisms, thousands dying vs a few dozen, and Americans being shocked about the planet not worshipping them, it's not as applicable).

[thelastdisciple]

http://mashable.com/2012/07/26/gangster-squad-postponed/

Well i sure saw this coming from a mile away.

[WorzelG]

i remember going on holiday to Mexico in December of 2001, the place was like a ghost town due to lack of Americans, the hotel was almost to ourselves. i always feel it's almost disrespectful to the victims of terrorism to let them win and change your life.

[onthewall2983]

Guess who makes the first joke. (http://www.avclub.com/articles/dane-cook-brings-dane-cooks-sense-of-satire-to-the,83065/)

Please facepalm this, somebody.

[Frozen Beach]

He should leave the offensive joke telling to Gilbert Gottfried.

[Amaro]

i remember going on holiday to Mexico in December of 2001, the place was like a ghost town due to lack of Americans, the hotel was almost to ourselves. i always feel it's almost disrespectful to the victims of terrorism to let them win and change your life.

I think jokes told (sooner or later) about victims who died (in general) are about as disrespectful as it gets. I'm guilty of laughing at people getting hurt, sometimes, but I don't think I've ever found pokes at death any bit funny.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

It doesn't look like this has been posted yet, but Hans Zimmer just put up a composition called "Aurora" for purchase, and all proceeds go to the Aurora Victim relief organization. Minimum donation is 10 cents. C'mooon!

https://watertowermusic.moontoast.com/estore/embed/1336

[Fixer808]

Shooter has allegedly been asking prison guards how the movie ends. Throw away the key and don't give him access to the prison library.

[onthewall2983]

And now the judge has barred cameras from the courtroom. Right fucking on.

[Sutekh]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19099956

Psychaitrist flagged shooter before incident occurred!

[Elke]

And we have a winner: schizophrenia (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2178809/James-Holmes-Did-Colorado-gunman-plan-killing-stars-Dark-Knight-Rises-NYC-premiere.html). I have to say, plan A makes a whole lot more sense than what he ended up doing, though how he went from plan A to plan Z is a bit of a mystery. The worst part is that he's going to be prodded and poked by so many psychiatrists he may only end up getting a proper diagnosis when his case has gone to court.