The Mandela Effect

[elevenism]

When i was a kid, i read Berenstein Bears books. And recently, it occurred to me that the books are, in fact, called BerenSTAIN bears, and always have been.

Another thing that really gets me is Snow White-the witch says Mirror Mirror on the wall, right?
WHen you go back and watch it, she says MAGIC mirror on the wall.

People are finding scores of these discrepancies, and many of them appear to be horseshit (thinking it was Interview With "A" Vampire, for instance,) but some of them are utterly fucking mind boggling.

People have also told me personal stories about things that they liked that now ostensibly never existed, or well remembered romantic rivalries in which the rival never existed,

Do you guys have any thoughts on this?

And also can somebody tell me what in the fuck is going on?

[ldopa]

some people say "supposably" and some say "supposedly"

it's inherent subjection for the most part. small (yet poignant) realizations like you mentioned aren't productive. they keep you speculating, which is a waste of thought for the most part. it's regression. you can spend your mind power on much better things. you're a smart dude, fuck this elementary shit. believe me, sometimes ignorance is bliss. and it's not really ignorance per se, it's more like choosing your battles, intellectually speaking.

[elevenism]

some people say "supposably" and some say "supposedly"

it's inherent subjection for the most part. small (yet poignant) realizations like you mentioned aren't productive. they keep you speculating, which is a waste of thought for the most part. it's regression. you can spend your mind power on much better things. you're a smart dude, fuck this elementary shit. believe me, sometimes ignorance is bliss. and it's not really ignorance per se, it's more like choosing your battles, intellectually speaking.

But when things are literally CHANGING, like physically changing in our time line or dimension or whatever you want to call it, don't you think that is worth discussion?
@ldopa do you remember it as
"Mirror Mirror" or "Magic Mirror?"

I have remembered it as mirror mirror my entire life. that shit being different is highly strange.

same thing with berenstein vs berenstain. These things aren't simple little spelling issues, rather, they encompass, in the berenstain thing, literally MILLIONS of books and cartoons. And everyone remembers it as Berenstein. Meanwhile, Jan and Stan BERENSTAIN are wondering what in the fuck is going on,

As am i.

This is fucking high strangeness of the topmost variety, for real.

HIGH MOTHERFUCKING STRANGENESS i tell you, wide out in the open.

[thevoid99]

I thought I was the only one that went through that shit. That whole Berenstein shit is true. Son of a bitch.

[Khrz]

I agree with @ldopa here.
It's interesting, but we rewrite ourselves constantly, let our memories be rewritten by what we eventually decide to believe.
OR you can decide that you're drifting from one dimension to the other with every passing second, wonder what it's about, question it until you have an answer, and lose your energy making sense of a mirror maze.
It's fun, for a while, but it doesn't give you directions. To me, that's pointless.

Everything might be fake for all I know. But the world I witness around me is the only one I can actually navigate. Really the ground under my feet is the only part that matters, as it's the only part that supports me.

[elevenism]

I agree with @ldopa here.
It's interesting, but we rewrite ourselves constantly, let our memories be rewritten by what we eventually decide to believe.
OR you can decide that you're drifting from one dimension to the other with every passing second, wonder what it's about, question it until you have an answer, and lose your energy making sense of a mirror maze.
It's fun, for a while, but it doesn't give you directions. To me, that's pointless.

Everything might be fake for all I know. But the world I witness around me is the only one I can actually navigate. Really the ground under my feet is the only part that matters, as it's the only part that supports me.

good god that's an interesting perspective

[Lew]

I agree with @ldopa here.
It's interesting, but we rewrite ourselves constantly, let our memories be rewritten by what we eventually decide to believe.
OR you can decide that you're drifting from one dimension to the other with every passing second, wonder what it's about, question it until you have an answer, and lose your energy making sense of a mirror maze.
It's fun, for a while, but it doesn't give you directions. To me, that's pointless.

Everything might be fake for all I know. But the world I witness around me is the only one I can actually navigate. Really the ground under my feet is the only part that matters, as it's the only part that supports me.

this is actually how i manage to stay "sane".
thanks for summing it up, Khrz.

however, i still keep looking for the side door...the off switch...the dimensional hub... ;p

and i love that elevenism examines this stuff, and shares it. please don't ever stop sharing your open mind, and your perspective.

[elevenism]

@Khrz i swear to god you could get people to pay money to read your thoughts and perspectives.
for REAL.

[DF118]

This is just gaslighting. If everyone mis-quotes something, that reinforces how you remember it. So you're more likely to reinforce it further by mis-quoting it.

Nothing more, nothing less: stop being paranoid.

[Khrz]

This is just gaslighting. If everyone mis-quotes something, that reinforces how you remember it. So you're more likely to reinforce it further by mis-quoting it.

Nothing more, nothing less: stop being paranoid.

I didn't mean to like that post, but there it is.
@elevenism , maybe one day, if I feel like I have something worth saying (note that I didn't say "worth reading" though). I'm not going to make people pay to watch me wank my own mind though, that's for free

[elevenism]

I didn't mean to like that post, but there it is.
@elevenism, maybe one day, if I feel like I have something worth saying (note that I didn't say "worth reading" though). I'm not going to make people pay to watch me wank my own mind though, that's for free

It's just a compliment. You aren't very good at taking them, are you?
@DF118 , this is far more profound than "misquotations."
Have you looked into this phenomenon at all?
It started when, upon Nelson Mandela's death, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE remembered him dying in prison and were confused.

I don't see how paranoia plays into it in any way. It exists. It interests me.

I swear to fucking god, every single time i start a thread here about something interesting that doesn't fit into everyone's neat little bubble of what's "cool," i receive comments like that and ridicule up to and and including people inferring and implying that i am stupid, which is pretty fucking laughable.

Why not look at strange things that are interesting? MILLIONS remember the Berenstain Bears books as BerenSTEIN. MILLIONS of people.

Is that not an interesting anomaly worthy of discussion?

[DF118]

It's just a compliment. You aren't very good at taking them, are you?
@DF118 , this is far more profound than "misquotations."
Have you looked into this phenomenon at all?

Have you ever looked into the phenomenon of gaslighting at all? It's when someone convinces you that your memory is at fault. This in turn, causes you to doubt your own sanity, or competence. An abusive person can take advantage of this to abuse someone. When the exact same thing happens on a sociological scale, it becomes a conspiracy theory. That's what this is.

It started when, upon Nelson Mandela's death, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE remembered him dying in prison and were confused.

This morning, I was absolutely convinced I'd left my iPad on my bedside table, when in fact it was hiding in my work bag. Had hundreds of thousands of people agreed with me that I'd left it on my bedside table, I'd also be confused.

I don't see how paranoia plays into it in any way. It exists. It interests me.

Paranoid people don't know they're paranoid.

I swear to fucking god, every single time i start a thread here about something interesting that doesn't fit into everyone's neat little bubble of what's "cool," i receive comments like that and ridicule up to and and including people inferring and implying that i am stupid, which is pretty fucking laughable.

Innit great?

Why not look at strange things that are interesting? MILLIONS remember the Berenstain Bears books as BerenSTEIN. MILLIONS of people.

That's because it's a common misconception. Everyone keeps making the same mistakes. Everyone hears "kiss the sky" and thinks it's "kiss this guy". Same thing.

Is that not an interesting anomaly worthy of discussion?

What you're discussing are just mistakes, lapses in memory. It's otherwise known as "the mind playing tricks on you". Everyone has these every day. If you concede that people behave largely the same way, then everyone is prone to the same mental fuck ups. Then on the macro scale they see correlation. Then they all reinforce these mistakes as causation. Gaslighting.

Edit: btw- I don't think you're stupid, I just think you're bonkers.

[muse-lyre candy]

It's just a compliment. You aren't very good at taking them, are you?
@DF118 , this is far more profound than "misquotations."
Have you looked into this phenomenon at all?
It started when, upon Nelson Mandela's death, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE remembered him dying in prison and were confused.

I don't see how paranoia plays into it in any way. It exists. It interests me.

I swear to fucking god, every single time i start a thread here about something interesting that doesn't fit into everyone's neat little bubble of what's "cool," i receive comments like that and ridicule up to and and including people inferring and implying that i am stupid, which is pretty fucking laughable.

Why not look at strange things that are interesting? MILLIONS remember the Berenstain Bears books as BerenSTEIN. MILLIONS of people.

Is that not an interesting anomaly worthy of discussion?

the more recent death of Mandela threw me for a loop as well. i remember feeling really confused in voicing the memories i have of Mandela's passing in the 80's
i discussed this with my then (now ex bf) and he has no memory of an 80's death. i didn't think too much about it at that time until i ran a crossed some reading of the 'Mandela Effect' i was curious enough to ask my ex husband what his recollections are and he doesn't have memories of an 80's Mandela death. i went a lil further and quizzed my ex husband about what he remember's from Snow White (mirror mirror), Monopoly Millionaire (Monocle) Guy, Star Wars (Vader Luke_father scene), minus the Mandela thing he also remembered the other things the same way i did; mirror mirror/with monocle/Luke_father (vs no_father).
it was just a curiosity i also found interesting, and that's kinda where it stops for me.

[Khrz]

It's the same for every thread man, whenever there's a specific subject there's always someone to barge in and point out that said subject is all bullshit.
Even I have just been guilty of that, although I guess I said it in a less dismissive tone.

[GibbonBlack]

I love the mandela effect because it shows just how far people will blag themselves rather than admit that they incorrectly remembered something.

It HAS to be a parallel universe, not that my memory is fuzzy at times!




....or do I?

[Khrz]

Good, enjoy the thread then.

[Nyx]

The phrase "Luke, I am your father" is also never uttered...We do things to quotes to make them more "quotable", things get lost as they get repeated, simplified, made more concise and better sounding. In the age of internet and digital data, we can cross check right away whether a quote is correct or not, but it didn't use to be this way. Our memories are faulty, collective memory as well. We remember what is easier to remember and what makes more sense to us. For example, "-stein" is a much more common suffix than "-stain", making it an very easy mistake to make.
Also, the phrase "mirror mirror" has stayed the same in the fairytale in my language, so am I in a different dimension or does it only affect English speakers? Does it affect only cartoon versions? Films versions? Book versions?

[elevenism]

I am tired of people being so dismissive of actual high strangeness because "science."

Science is as faulty as religion.
The science i learned in school in the nineties is mostly obsolete. We just discovered another fucking planet in the solar system. We don't know shit. The arrogance takes me aback, and it is quite similar to the arrogance of religious zealots.

Isn't it pretty fucking strange that there are 7 billion living, breathing, talking primates dominating this planet who eat, drink, sleep, shit, and fuck? Isn't it strange that these sentient sacks of matter have consciousness, produce art, have deep religious beliefs, hopes and dreams and aspirations, have insanely complex social structures, and have engineered a network with which to communicate with one another that also contains all the information in the world?
Isn't it strange that anything exists at all?

As Dave Chapelle said, the worst thing you can call someone is crazy. It's dismissive.

SO-there is this Ayn-Randian objective box into which all knowledge must neatly fit.
If anyone believes, or even ponders, anything that doesn't fit into this agreed-upon box, they are labeled a "wacky conspiracy theorist" (even when the subject at hand doesn't involve any conspiracy. Look up the word conspiracy. Hundreds of millions of "conspiracies" are committed every day) and dismissed.
This is called "contempt prior to investigation."
Everyone knows everything and speaks from an intellectual high ground on which they have already solved all the mysteries of the universe, and frankly, it maddens me.

[botley]

I am tired of people being so dismissive of actual high strangeness because "science."

I don't dismiss the so-called Mandela Effect (actually a better description would be 'sticky memories', because they get stuck in the brain's 'truthiness detector' despite overwhelming evidence that they're wrong); however, I disbelieve that this phenomenon constitutes evidence of parallel realities. The human memory system is incredibly fallible, particularly when the brain is presented with confusing information (how could Berenstain even be a real surname, when the one I remember is clearly more plausible? how could a political prisoner become the democratically elected president of his nation after spending DECADES in jail? how could the thing I SWEAR TO GOD I HEARD ONE WAY actually turn out to be a different way — after hearing an almost infinite number of other things in the intervening years). But there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio. Seeing is believing (or rather, observation is evidence), but memory cannot be trusted. Institutional safeguards at all levels of society exist to prevent this fact from fucking up the everyday operations of our lives. If you relied on your memory, quite quickly you'd be fucked over by its failings. This has been demonstrated ad nauseum.

Science is as faulty as religion.
The science i learned in school in the nineties is mostly obsolete. We just discovered another fucking planet in the solar system. We don't know shit. The arrogance takes me aback, and it is quite similar to the arrogance of religious zealots.

True, we as individuals don't have a reliable view of reality (see above), but the good news is that science actually takes this into account and can revise its conclusions to better reflect improved data that conflicts with older explanatory models. That very same conflicting data, when shown to contradict your personalized theory of how things happened in your memory, in my view, causes the strangeness of sticky memories. Pluto was totally a planet and now it's not considered to be one anymore, but these fucking scientists are saying there's ANOTHER planet out even further?? What the fuck, scientists??!? (From what I've heard, the 'new' planet has not yet been observed, it's only theoretical at this point.) This is potentially upsetting, to be sure, but it's not evidence that science is broken — this is actually evidence that it's doing its job.

SO-there is this Ayn-Randian objective box into which all knowledge must neatly fit.
If anyone believes, or even ponders, anything that doesn't fit into this agreed-upon box, they are labeled a "wacky conspiracy theorist" (even when the subject at hand doesn't involve any conspiracy. Look up the word conspiracy. Hundreds of millions of "conspiracies" are committed every day) and dismissed.
This is called "contempt prior to investigation."
Everyone knows everything and speaks from an intellectual high ground on which they have already solved all the mysteries of the universe, and frankly, it maddens me.

I'm not speaking about anything that's unavailable to anyone with the ability and will to investigate. You can come to whatever conclusion about the mysteries you want. I'd like to judge people only by the quality of their ideas, and sometimes more particularly their ability to make them useful. Parallel realities on those counts doesn't cut the mustard for me, no matter who's saying it.

[allegro]

The human memory system is incredibly fallible

And amazing that if even WORKS, especially if you take some neurology classes; you walk away going, "holy shit, that's incredible!"

Memory is also highly subject to the power of suggestion, e.g. the Mandela Affect.

Or why sometimes what we think we remember is what we dreamed. Some of our memories are not real.

[elevenism]

Parallel realities on those counts doesn't cut the mustard for me, no matter who's saying it.

I am a big Michio Kaku fan.

Also, @botley , as far as the paranormal stuff goes, most of it for me is for fun.
SOME of it crosses the line, but usually it's more of a "what if."

edit: Furthermore, i don't believe that i have said anything in this thread regarding parallel realities.
I said high strangeness.
@allegro , at least half of my favorite memories aren't real.

[elevenism]

@Nyx it is the 1937 version of Snow White by Disney.
It's the one we all saw, in which everyone agrees that the witch said Mirror Mirror.
@DF118 , i have been chased through a hotel by a ruthless gang of assassins. I called the police, who did a sweep of the hotel and came up with nothing. The assassins managed to hide and commenced hunting me. It was a ritual game of human hunting, and i was the target for 2015. I later saw a 7 foot tall incarnation of Baphomet standing outside my hotel door. By this time i knew i had had a full on psychotic break, so i was regarding it with the utmost curiosity, not fear. It fascinated me that my mind had created this thing.
So yes, i AM crazy. If i don't take my meds, worst case scenario is that people are trying to kill me. And i've learned to flat out not trust human memories.

HOWEVER

Some of these things are happening on such a massive scale that there MUST be something to it.

[DF118]

@Nyx it is the 1937 version of Snow White by Disney.
It's the one we all saw, in which everyone agrees that the witch said Mirror Mirror.
@DF118 , i have been chased through a hotel by a ruthless gang of assassins. I called the police, who did a sweep of the hotel and came up with nothing. The assassins managed to hide and commenced hunting me. It was a ritual game of human hunting, and i was the target for 2015. I later saw a 7 foot tall incarnation of Baphomet standing outside my hotel door. By this time i knew i had had a full on psychotic break, so i was regarding it with the utmost curiosity, not fear. It fascinated me that my mind had created this thing.
So yes, i AM crazy. If i don't take my meds, worst case scenario is that people are trying to kill me. And i've learned to flat out not trust human memories.

HOWEVER

Some of these things are happening on such a massive scale that there MUST be something to it.

*Slow clap*

[elevenism]

Seriously, why is everyone so fucking closed minded?
Why is everyone so quick to dismiss ANYTHING that disrupts their ethos?
Why can there be no mystery left in the world?

Where is your fucking sense of wonder, for fuck's sake?

I know for a fact that i'm not the only person on the board who is interested in these things, because of private conversations. I get PMs that are like "hey, you're not the only one." No shit.
The rest of you, however, are scared to be ridiculed by objectivist scientific geniuses that perhaps took a series of courses that you didn't.
I'm not. Call me what you will.

[Khrz]

And although I'm not on either side on that fence, I find curious that when anyone acts like this in, say, the feminist thread, the marvel thread or the election thread they are considered fucking dicks, while here they find an occasion to shine by stating the obvious. You guys are the Rabbit™ of this thread.
I'm not even comparing the importance or relevance of those threads, just the fact that when one seeks to have a conversation on a certain subject with like-minded people, there's always a smartass to come and stroke his fedora.
I don't give a damn if someone believes in parallel dimensions, God, astrology, capitalism, guns rights, feminism... If they want to discuss any subject they don't need an armchair contrarian to help them find the light. They just want to enjoy a nice convo in a place they find cool enough.
I don't go piss on the sports thread just because I find it boring, I don't come in the elections thread saying how tired I am of the fucking US freakshow, and I don't go in the astrology thread saying Orion has nothing to do with the shit going on in my life.
Neither should you.

[DF118]

And although I'm not on either side on that fence, I find curious that when anyone acts like this in, say, the feminist thread, the marvel thread or the election thread they are considered fucking dicks, while here they find an occasion to shine by stating the obvious. You guys are the Rabbit™ of this thread.
I'm not even comparing the importance or relevance of those threads, just the fact that when one seeks to have a conversation on a certain subject with like-minded people, there's always a smartass to come and stroke his fedora.
I don't give a damn if someone believes in parallel dimensions, God, astrology, capitalism, guns rights, feminism... If they want to discuss any subject they don't need an armchair contrarian to help them find the light. They just want to enjoy a nice convo in a place they find cool enough.
I don't go piss on the sports thread just because I find it boring, I don't come in the elections thread saying how tired I am of the fucking US freakshow, and I don't go in the astrology thread saying Orion has nothing to do with the shit going on in my life.
Neither should you.

Bullshit.

elevinism asked:

Do you guys have any thoughts on this?

And also can somebody tell me what in the fuck is going on?

I explained it to him. Just because I had a rational explanation which doesn't involve alternative realities and aliens, this doesn't mean I was "stoking his fedora". It's not my fault that he loses his shit every 5 posts.

[elevenism]

Bullshit.

elevinism asked:

"do you guys have any thoughts on this

And also can somebody tell me what in the fuck is going on


I explained it to him. Just because I had a rational explanation which doesn't involve alternative realities and aliens, this doesn't mean I was "stoking his fedora". It's not my fault that he loses his shit every 5 posts.

Dude. You came at me rude and called me bonkers. For the record, even though i didn't appreciate the implied intellectual high ground from which you approached me, i listened to what you were saying and LIKED the fucking post.
As far as the "can somebody tell me what in the fuck is going on" bit, i guess i should have made clear that i didn't mean that literally.
I just get a kick out of saying that particular phrase.

You immediately resorted to name calling.
And now you are saying that i "lose my shit every five posts."
I don't think i've ever been rude to you in any way, and i KNOW i haven't called you any names.
I don't understand the disrespect.

[thelastdisciple]

There are so many complexities of the universe, so much that we will probably never understand in our lifetime and yet people get all Han Solo about everything.. "simple tricks and nonsense".

Shit like this regardless of whether or not it's happening, it's still wholly fascinating to me. For the same reasons that i wonder about aliens, we'd have to be pretty fucking egotistical and ignorant to think we're the only intelligent and sentient lifeforms.

Without solid proof to the contrary... the gate is wide open for wonder and speculation IMO

Besides where's the fun in being shallow?... sheesh.
@elevenism Those fucking snacks i told you about on FB and their odd lack of existence will never cease to boggle my mind, someone HAS to have a bag of them that they've kept somewhere right? christ... out of all people in this world you'd think someone would take a picture and throw it up on one of those retro snack databases or something.

[GibbonBlack]

People shouldn't use the fact that science doesn't have all the answers to believe in fairies.

[Khrz]

People shouldn't use the fact that science doesn't have all the answers to believe in fairies.

Well I'm pretty sure @elevenism isn't going to suicide-bomb an orphanage in the name of Alternate Earth #289904, so in the context of that thread I don't think it matters one way or the other.