House Always Wins
Really? Most consider it the worst Modern Who episode of all time based on stuff I read. I appreciate the angle and what they were going for but I wasn't overly involved sadly.Originally Posted by eversonpoe
I'm looking forward to next week since it has a season 8 returning character; which is cool as I'm like one the 30 people in the world that LOVED season 8.
Vertiginous Member
I gave up on the show during the first part of Zygon Invasion. Had enough of the writing style.
Might tune in for the Christmas special, but I'm done for now.
Throbbing Member
I liked "Sleep No More". For starters, it's one of the few episodes in which Clara functions as a proper companion. I have a feeling that this Saturday will all but show us the last of her (though Jenna will be back for the finale because it's the finale).
Been watching several Pertwee serials on the Horror Channel lately. Currently on Planet Of The Daleks. Tomorrow it's The Green Death (Jo's departure). At least I can now say that Jo is one of my top five classic companions.
she/her/hers
jo is my and my wife's favorite classic companion, tied with jamie and zoe. i can only imagine how much fun jamie and zoe would have been with pertwee.
Throbbing Member
Is next week's the second part of a two-parter? It felt like this episode may have been a one-shot, which would be a disappointing point in an otherwise solid series (so far).
Mark Gatiss is the weakest Doctor Who writer of the current lot. Given he's great at Sherlock- he seems to phone it in with these.
Josh Wink was on HLAH
Well that's one way to send her off
Actually really liked the episode, good ending and dark - plus a recurring villain that isn't just "take over the world", but something much more simple like greed and power always interests me.
Throbbing Member
Why, yes! Maisie Williams would make a good comp-Spoiler: AAAAND she's evil! Sorta. And I wanted Missy to be the one to kill Clara. But this will all but solidify that Clara is the new Adric: a hated companion to be redeemed by a moving death scene. "Hell Bent" will serve as her epilogue, and I suspect the "Hell Bent" Clara will be an "echo" from s7 to bookend her arc. And I wouldn't be surprised if she was the Dalek/Time Lord hybrid mentioned at the beginning of the season, given how we first saw her and Moffat probably acknowledging that there were some fan theories of s7 Clara being a Time Lord.
EDIT: Anyone have any thoughts on who the new companion should be? This obviously won't be discussed much until after Christmas, but still...
Last edited by Patrick_Nicholas; 11-21-2015 at 05:52 PM.
House Always Wins
Spoiler: People can say what they will but after Donna, Clara was my favorite companion of Modern Doctor Who. Shame to see her go (show wise) in such a tragic and noble way but it was a nice send off showing her good nature (which most overlook). Just a shame that the it broke the Doctor's heart. People can say Eleven and Amy/Rory were a perfect match and their goodbyes were sad but I think besides Rose this is the one companion that seriously shattered him by their departure. Only companion to have died on him in the new series. Now that he's upset and feeling vengeful it will be quite fun to see possibly a more angry, sinister Doctor for the rest of the season? I bet the person in charge that Ashildr made the deal with would have to be Missy or someone who has been tied to him a lot in the eight and ninth series as an antagonistic force.
Agh!
words.exe
Spoiler: Clara went exactly the way she should have gone - arrogantly, thinking that she could be just like the Doctor. It's a tragic death that really redeems the fact that she stuck around a series too long, passing up two perfect opportunities to walk away without it being as aggressively sad as this. It was honorable for her to simply accept it once she realized there was no escaping what she'd done, but she still did it entirely because she thought that she and the Doctor would solve the mystery and escape the countdown. It was selfless to an extent for her to spare Rigsy, but it was a decision rooted in arrogance and riskiness - "I can do this because the Doctor and I will solve it and I'll be fine." But she wasn't. Her obsessive need to prove herself finally got the better of her, and she paid the ultimate price for it. The actual scene of her death was beautifully done - not exploitative, not reveling in her agony; her soul is sucked out and she falls to the ground. The weird threepeat of her initial silent scream was a little too action-movie for me, but otherwise, very well done.
I've always love Clara. She earned a character in series 8 and I was very fond of the direction they took with her. But her arrogance and belief that she could do everything the Doctor did was always her biggest flaw, and it was built up over two series for this very moment, when it finally consumes her. But the scene also showed why she worked so well with the Doctor - call her a Mary Sue in regards to her usefulness compared to the Doctor's, but she understood him in a nuanced way, and she made a huge impact on him, not just by being inserted into his timeline, but by being Twelve's companion, and learning how the new incarnation worked, how different he was. She learned far more about Twelve than Eleven, I think, in the same way that Rose knew Ten much, much more than Nine. I think she overstayed her welcome - particularly with Danny's death and how much that affected her, and how she had to confront him after death because he was wrapped up in typical Doctor Who bullshit - but she was given an incredible send-off. I'll miss you.
Ashildr was fantastic as a villain, I think. She has the same sort of problem - she thought she could outmanuever the Doctor, and she did, but she also cost Clara her life, because she didn't anticipate Clara's own actions. She hid information from them and built an elaborate game but didn't lock down the variables enough, and now the Doctor will never forgive her. She fucked up in a major way and I think that, if she ever shows up again, she'll have learned significantly from this experience. And holy fuck, Sarah Dollard - this might be my favorite debut of a new writer under Moffat's tenure to date. She just understands Doctor Who on a fundamental level. If she (or Mathieson) took over as showrunner, I would be very, very pleased.
And one last thing - I'm glad that this didn't connect to Sleep No More because Sleep No More sucked ass. Typical Gatiss horseshit. He is so bad.
Josh Wink was on HLAH
Joivan Wade (Rigsy) could be interesting, he's pretty tightly tied to the Doctor now. Would also be nice to go back to the old style of 2 or more companions, which might be possible if they stick to more multi part (or, if we're lucky, actually serialised) episodes.
Just not another Mary Sue, not another woman who somehow saves the universe through self sacrifice crap again.
(also, did we HAVE to end with Clara in a jesus pose? Was the symbolism not enough?)
House Always Wins
Rewatching older videos on YouTube randomly.
why do I laugh so much when he dead panly states "Except it's gone critical."
Side note, I love this scene so much. One of Ten's finer moments, even though he sounds selfish a great deal.
Last edited by Space Suicide; 11-26-2015 at 02:42 PM.
Throbbing Member
Holy hell. Heaven Sent Spoiler: pulled no punches, no pun intended.
Throbbing Member
Just one more week until the season is complete. Spoiler: The Doctor has now officially lost his shit after what the Time Lords did to him, now going to war with his own people and ready to smash into more pieces than years he spent in the cycle. I sometimes think my own ideas can get cynical, but they're quite idealistic compared some of the shit that Moffat and pals come up with (though he's not above forcing out a happy ending when he remembers this is supposed to be a family show).
I was also hoping that Rassilon would return, but Wikipedia lists some other guy credited simply as "The President". I still have hopes for Missy being the big bad here. The whole confession thing started because he gave her the confession dial, even though The Doctor should really, really, REALLY know better than to trust The Master (but the fact that The Master is the other last Time Lord AND now a woman allows some very in-your-face sins to be swept under the rug to make this plot work).
Let's just say that if she's not the one behind these last couple episodes (including using a now-former ally), I may be very disappointed.
House Always Wins
Hahahahaha....
Spoiler: Is it bad I laughed my ass off in that rewind sequence when he would tack on more years in the future in his dialogue, when the hands killed him and him coughing in the teleport when time was reset?
Cannot wait for this finale!
Josh Wink was on HLAH
Actually might be one of my favourite episodes from NuWho, it was a bottle episode, clever, kinda beautiful. And I loved the insight into the Doctor's internal "about to die" processes
words.exe
Spoiler: Heaven Sent was absolutely incredible. The gradual rollout of the central twist - the time loop, or I guess just a causal loop? - was masterful. I spent the entire episode wondering where everything was going, and then it only clicked into place when the Doctor was finally caught by that veiled thing. The sequence of repeating the cycle was very well done, and the scope of it is just mind-boggling - billions of years, stuck having to resurrect himself over and over, with no idea how long he's been stuck there, each incarnation only knowing that the cycle has to be started. It makes me wonder if he ever somehow managed to become aware of the scope of the loop, but I don't think that would be possible, since he would be reset completely every time, so he would only come to the realization that he would have to reset himself, and assume that this was the first time he did it. Really just an incredibly elaborate torture machine, isn't it?
And the sequences in his mind were fantastic. The way they moved from demonstrating the Doctor's thought processes to showing his anger and grief over losing Clara was brilliant. I really, really loved every second of this episode, and I can't even touch on next week. Finally, Gallifrey again.
I wonder if the Doctor's confession will end up stuck in a time loop - Missy gets it from the Doctor after it's generated in Hell Bent, to be delivered to (presumably) the Time Lords, who use it to create the Doctor's torture loop, and then it becomes the confession dial, which the Doctor gets, and then Missy gets it, etc. That would get it out of the plot and end its little McGuffin trip. We'll see. Can't wait for the finale next week, and then Christmas after that, even though it has [sigh] River again. I guess Clara's death leaves a hole in the companion spot. Ah well.
Administrator
Catching up with the last half of the season. "Sleep No More" has to be the worst episode in recent memory.
Josh Wink was on HLAH
Ugh, River Song is gonna be in the xmas episode. I thought we were done with her
Throbbing Member
I think Moffat realized he was really going to miss having a Mary-Sue around when Jenna told him she was leaving, which led to his decision to bring back his well-established Mary-Sue, River "a universe without The Doctor is worse than no universe at all" Song. Judging by the Facebook comments, fans in general seem to think that Clara is the worst thing ever to happen to the show, but yet River is an even bigger Mary-Sue than Clara and Rose put together.
From being conceived in the TARDIS, allowing her to get away with a TARDIS retcon that makes no sense to anyone who's watched the classic series; to apparently being so badass, that she can intimidate a Dalek to death based purely on her ego... the very same Dalek that had just gunned down The Doctor (and please don't tell me that her "killing" The Doctor or that the Daleks having a concept of mercy now is a valid excuse; it's still a blatant violation of Show, Don't Tell); to virtually becoming an omnicidal maniac by refusing to "kill" The Doctor in a fixed point in time, but that's A-OK because she's violating a fixed point out of love and because he's the hero... even though our hero would inevitably have to come up with a clever way to just simulate his death regardless because there would be no show without him; it's pretty clear that we're supposed to think that she's the most amazing character ever (besides The Doctor himself, obviously). Oh, and she somehow knows The Doctor's real name, despite the fact that there are some big reasons why he never says it.
Maybe the Twelfth Doctor can address the infamous "parking brake" line from "The Time Of Angels" on his predecessor's behalf, given that Eleven isn't exactly the most level-headed incarnation. Though the title, "The Husbands Of River Song" (note that "Husbands" is plural), implies this might be another multi-Doctor episode! The ONLY way I would want to see River come back is if Eleven also comes back, either that or have her be an impersonation by the Zygons as a trap for The Doctor.
Last edited by Patrick_Nicholas; 12-01-2015 at 04:49 AM.
words.exe
Sleep No More sucked but I think Before the Flood was worse. That two-parter was one of the shittiest I've ever seen. The only time I've seen Capaldi go full autopilot in Doctor Who so far.
That and the opening two-parter really worried me about the quality of the season, but it has obviously turned around significantly since then.
Administrator
Holllllly shit the last episode!
Throbbing Member
Holy fucking shit THIS episode! I had a feeling I was going to use this gif for this episode, but not regarding how the villains were handled:
Spoiler: Okay, where to start: They set up the Time Lords as the big bads, and even brought back bloody RASSILON, only to drop them less than two thirds of the way in. Way to waste the most legendary and powerful Time Lord of all (as any one who's watched The Five Doctors may tell you. Also The End Of Time to a lesser extent). Also a bit disappointing for me because not very long after Peter was announced as The Doctor, I started constructing in my head a multi-season arc involving Rassilon and The Master as two big bads at odds with each other, continuing from where we last saw them both. And speaking of The Master:
I was seriously hoping that Missy would be revealed to have hijacked the Time Lords, not least to make up for that frenemy bullshit we were fed at the beginning of the season. Instead she doesn't even appear, though at least she gets mentioned this time! Even by her usual title! I assumed that Waitress Clara was either an echo or the Eleventh Doctor's Clara, and her sole purpose was to cover up the real Clara's death... which was only going to be pointlessly undone an episode and a half later because Moffat had once again felt the need to force a happy(ish) ending, even if it meant completely derailing the plot. And am I the only one who put "The hybrid is me" and "The hybrid is destined to destroy Gallifrey" together to make "The Doctor was destined to destroy Gallifrey via how the Time War (originally) ended"? Oh, and I also wanted Eleven to come back at the end to provide the segue into the Christmas special.
On the plus side, The Doctor gets his Sonic Screwdriver back! New Sonic + new companion for s10 = the true dawn of the Twelfth Doctor era(!), as opposed to just a continuation of the Moffat era that just happens to have a different Doctor.
Now that we're done with this season, I'll be spending these next few weeks catching up on my Tom Baker serials.
words.exe
I think you expected a little too much from that episode coming in.
I thought it was fantastic and the end of a really incredible turnaround for this season. After the second story I was ready to write this one off, but the team really outdid themselves recovering from those early episodes. Spoiler: Missy ending up as a throwaway for the opening story was disappointing, but other than that, I think this was a great way to end Clara's story. She gets to be the Doctor for as long as she wants, even if her journey has a definite endpoint. Reminds me of Ten's little farewell tour he did, but a lot nicer because it wasn't overwrought overly dramatic bullshit. The door is open for Ashildr to come back at some point, but I don't think that would be for the best - her story and character worked so well in this season that I feel like she would be undermined by appearing later, a lot like River was undermined by appearing too much, or how the Angels came back too many times and became stupid. This two-parter was a great way to bring Gallifrey back and then fling it back into the background - it's there to use, but it doesn't have to be a dominant force. And fuck them and fuck Rassilon, by the way. They're self-absorbed scumbags through and through. And we can't rely on Rassilon as being the Only Time Lord Villain Ever, because that's boring. Bring back the Minister of War as a big villain down the line if you want one. Both of her incarnations were entertaining. We'll see more, but we don't need to see it any time soon. And big multi-season arcs aren't what I want to see from this show, either, because that necessitates Moffat being here even longer, and I don't want that right now. Let someone else take that and run with it.
Overall, this season made a great turnaround, and turned in a couple of the best stories of the modern era - certainly of the Moffat tenure. Hesitantly optimistic about Christmas, very interested in next year with a new companion. I know that they won't be able to hide their identity for a second, but it would be great if they tried to make it a surprise.
Administrator
Not quite know what to make of the Ministry of War's regeneration. Maybe it has given show runners an opening to have a female Doctor in the future or it could be just Moffat's way of shutting up critics? *shrug* That said, can I have a Who spin-off about two lady time-traveling adventurers, please?
Throbbing Member
I think it was a troll to bait people who complain when the Doctor regenerates as white male.
My question: does this mean he's forgotten half his adventures for the past half of his life? Clara was the longest running companion in his lifetime. Not counting his time spent in the confession dial (but including his time spent in Trenzalore), over 1000 years.
He's also forgotten how she helped him save Gallifrey in the 50th.
I'd have wiped Clara's memory, actually, thinking about it. Fuck her. She cropped up at key moments in his past, and so any lessons learned (which have been a big driving force behind his development in the past two / three seasons) might now be lost.
Moffat's a dick.
Last edited by DF118; 12-06-2015 at 06:01 PM.
she/her/hers
i mean, he clearly still remembers events that occurred with her, just not all the details. so i think that any lessons learned and character growth achieved won't be completely lost.
that said, moffat is still a dick.
Throbbing Member
I, personally, would have had Clara stay dead, so nobody's memories would have needed to be wiped. It was The Doctor bringing her back that put them in that situation. And I would have had the bulk of the episode still be focused on the conflict with the Time Lords, who, by the way, have had a bit of history of corruption beyond the Time War and trapping The Doctor to force him to give details of the hybrid. Not just Rassilon. Borusa, Goth, and the Time Lords that worked with the Valeyard to plan the Sixth Doctor's trial are good examples of Time Lords in the classic series that have abused their power (beyond the occasional renegade like The Master) without needing to be in obvious danger, and that The Doctor seriously needs to do more to deal with it now than just banish the incumbent President and High Council.
EDIT: Forgot that I didn't add that after the central conflict was to be resolved (for the time being), I would have had The Doctor go back to an earlier point in Clara's life just to see Clara one last time before he could move on. What we got instead had officially cemented her status as a Mary-Sue, which I've only recently accepted given that I've had a bit of a crush on Jenna for a while (originating during the tail end of her [relatively brief] time with Eleven, solidified after watching his last episode).
I can't help it. I've been coming up with loads and loads of story ideas since I gradually started getting into the show not long before Matt Smith announced he was leaving.
I never said I wanted Rassilon to be the "Only Time Lord Villain Ever". But I did, however, want to see plot points set up from when we last saw him to be expanded upon. And it would have been interesting to see Missy's reaction to him still being around (albeit in a new, considerably weaker incarnation who gets shamefully banished without a fight) since he's more or less responsible for The Master's insanity, drums or no drums. I'm just a bit disappointed, given that he had also shown himself to be a legitimate threat the last time we saw him.And we can't rely on Rassilon as being the Only Time Lord Villain Ever, because that's boring.
In-universe, that honor would go to Handles the Cyber-Head (who was there for much of the time on Trenzalore) but aside from that you're probably right. Sarah Jane may have just slightly beaten her out-of-universe, though.
Last edited by Patrick_Nicholas; 12-10-2015 at 07:12 AM. Reason: Clarification
Administrator
Moffat quits! http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2016-...chris-chibnall
Throbbing Member
To be replaced by the guy who wrote Dinosaurs on a Spaceship? Oh well, at least it isn't Mark Gatiss.
House Always Wins
No Who in 2016? Lameeeeeeee.
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