Controversial Music Opinions...

[Sutekh]

The Beatles = overrated. And before anyone... lectures me on how important they are to the development of pop music (really?! no shit. wow you must have watched television or read a paper at least once or twice to gain such an insight, I am in awe), I know - and I do like them. But for me the myth is as powerful as the music - that's why, when you say they are overrated, people always refer to the band's place in history rather than the music itself.

they wrote and recorded some of the most amazing and revolutionary music ever, and they changed everything... Everything you like would sound dramatically different if it weren't for The Beatles.

wow, I never knew that The Beatles were such a big influence on Lonnie Donegan, Robert Johnson, Pierre Schaffer... incredible to think they went back in time and invented transatlantic and delta blues as well as skiffle bands

Sorry for the sarcasm! but they did take a few cues

Agreed, the Beatles aren't overrated. It's not a matter of opinion.

Do you seriously mean that? You do know there are no objectively "correct" opinions and even if there were it's highly questionable that we would even recognise them as such

Can you give me some examples of opinions that are "correct" to the point of transcending subjectivity? I mean this is silly, it's like saying coca cola is nice, and if you don't like it you are wrong or lying

[Jinsai]

Can you give me some examples of opinions that are "correct" to the point of transcending subjectivity? I mean this is silly, it's like saying coca cola is nice, and if you don't like it you are wrong or lying

Except what was said was nothing like that... for it to be comparable, calling Coke "overrated' would have to make sense, and it doesn't.

Also, to say that The Beatles did nothing other than take an obvious cue from blues music is crazy. If you like any rock music from the past forty years, you owe a big "thank you" to The Beatles.

[Sutekh]

Pay attention 007, my comments about objective knowledge weren't in reply to what you said (read it again) - and I didn't say they did nothing but take their cues from blues music... you said everything I listen to would sound different, but I listen to quite a few acts that predate the Beatles

And of course you can describe Coke as "overrated"... it's fizzy sugary shit and yet somehow it's the #1 beverage in the world, I would say it is overrated. Why can't you describe it as such?

[Jinsai]

Pay attention 007, my comments about objective knowledge weren't in reply to what you said (read it again) - and I didn't say they did nothing but take their cues from blues music... you said everything I listen to would sound different, but I listen to quite a few acts that predate the Beatles

I thought it would be obviously implied that I was referring to bands that came after the Beatles. In case it wasn't, let me clarify... I wasn't implying that musicians who came before were using psychic powers.

And of course you can describe Coke as "overrated"... it's fizzy sugary shit and yet somehow it's the #1 beverage in the world, I would say it is overrated. Why can't you describe it as such?

Because when I follow this unnecessary analogy far enough, I feel sick.

[Sutekh]

You make a totalising statement like "everything you listen to would be different" except by that you meant not everything. You are hard work :P

Anyway where did I say they weren't influential? Like I said in my first post, there really is no need to point out to me what place The Beatles occupy in music history, it's patronising



(saying keep up 007 isn't though :P :P )

[Jinsai]

You make a totalising statement like "everything you listen to would be different" except by that you meant not everything. You are hard work :P

It's not hard work to realize I'm not saying Beethoven was influenced by The Beatles.

Anyway where did I say they weren't influential? Like I said in my first post, there really is no need to point out to me what place The Beatles occupy in music history, it's patronising

Their undeniable influence is a huge consideration when you call them "overrated."

(saying keep up 007 isn't though :P :P )

ok?

[Sutekh]

But again even though they are hugely influential & an awesome band, this doesn't mean it's a fact that they are good.

By overrated I mean people often give them credit for things they didn't start... I'm glad you acknowledge music before The Beatles but nonetheless you are implying that rock music was jack shit before The Beatles, which isn't true, is giving them a bit more credit than they deserve, which qualifies as overrating

and it's a sentiment I hear again and again and again, so while they deserve to be highly rated, I think it's fair to say they are overrated in a sense

[hobochic]

wow, I never knew that The Beatles were such a big influence on Lonnie Donegan, Robert Johnson, Pierre Schaffer... incredible to think they went back in time and invented transatlantic and delta blues as well as skiffle bands

Sorry for the sarcasm! but they did take a few cues



Do you seriously mean that? You do know there are no objectively "correct" opinions and even if there were it's highly questionable that we would even recognise them as such

Can you give me some examples of opinions that are "correct" to the point of transcending subjectivity? I mean this is silly, it's like saying coca cola is nice, and if you don't like it you are wrong or lying

As I said, it's not a matter of opinion. You are entitled not to "like" the Beatles as you're entitled to not "like" complex architecture, computer programming or Neil deGrasse (astrophysicist). You can't deny, though, that the songwriting the Beatles developed was groundbreaking and further developed the science of modern music orchestration, as did the great classic composers in their genres. It's their sonic architecture that introduced new concepts in how and what a music band could be, and that's all about their music. Not so much about their "time" in history, although it does play a role. I don't listen to them that much or consider them my "favorite" band. If anything, they're underrated and misunderstood, perhaps mostly by their biggest fans.

[koz-ivan]

As I said, it's not a matter of opinion. You are entitled not to "like" the Beatles as you're entitled to not "like" complex architecture, computer programming or Neil deGrasse (astrophysicist). You can't deny, though, that the songwriting the Beatles developed was groundbreaking and further developed the science of modern music orchestration, as did the great classic composers in their genres. It's their sonic architecture that introduced new concepts in how and what a music band could be, and that's all about their music. Not so much about their "time" in history, although it does play a role. I don't listen to them that much or consider them my "favorite" band. If anything, they're underrated and misunderstood, perhaps mostly by their biggest fans.

part of the "problem" w/ the beatles is their status, probably like most folks who post here, i first heard these albums long after the beatles rep as "the greatest ever" was firmly cemented. and at the time i was deep into far more aggressive industrial / electronic music, and the beatles never really grabbed me. never really understood the swooning fans, or the relentless praise.

even when the beatles were finally added to itunes there was a decent amount of hype surrounding that, with a web & tv campaign.

in hindsight not even the beatles can live up to the hype of the beatles, but they did come up with some great albums / songs, that i now appreciate far more than before.

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agreed on some of the other bands mentioned here:

apc never got the appeal, saw them open for nin back w/ fragility 2.0 tour, bought the first few records, can't say that anything was terribly memorable, though i love puscifer & tool.

with_teeth was actually a pretty decent record, hated it when it first came out, was disappointed with the sound of it, hated the lack of liner notes, thought the pdf poster things reeked of ego and trying to be far too clever. in hindsight though it contained some great tracks, and has held up well.

the fragile was always a bloated mess, i suppose anyone would have struggled to followup the downward spiral, so i can forgive that, but it's still one of my least favorite of the nin albums.

radiohead - like the rest of the world, i loved creep, though i'm still wondering what happened to that band and why everything else they release to great hype and acclaim feels so empty and lifeless.

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the smashing pumpkins - seriously fuck those guys. why they were ever popular can only be blamed on nirvana's lengthy coat tails. why they haven't just died under a rock somewhere is anyone's guess.

[Space Suicide]

the smashing pumpkins - seriously fuck those guys. why they were ever popular can only be blamed on nirvana's lengthy coat tails. why they haven't just died under a rock somewhere is anyone's guess.

Current time Smashing Pumpkins aren't that great at all but I fail to see how any correlation with Nirvana helped the band create Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness or their sound as a whole. I think people give too much credit to bands that have nothing to do with other acts around their time frame's success.

I also guess it's controversial to utter or denounce anything related to the Beatles.