Marilyn Manson - Born Villain

[ManBurning]

My guess is they probably shown some stock footage of the band from an early performance or something along those lines. I haven't seen that video for over
a decade! I don't even remember what the hell is on there, LOL. I do remember when it came out though, it was 1999 and I was 16 years old and my girlfried at the time was obsessed with Manson and we went to the local CD/DVD store in the mall to buy it on VHS, lol!

[Conan The Barbarian]

I still have that and Dead To The World on VHS.

I liked God Is In The TV alot more mainly because they were so relaxed and had much more backstage footage. Dead To The World, although awesome, was just fucking all over the place.

[NotoriousTIMP]

I've never seen God Is In The TV or Dead To The World. Were these titles ever released to DVD?

[ManBurning]

Damn, the Mechanical Animals Era was awesome! Watching things brings back so many memories. I wish I was able to catch a show from this tour!

[Piko]

Unfortunately, I don't think theyre on DVD. I really loved God is in the TV as well. I got rid of all my VHS a little while ago, those two included.

[Maul]

I think I saw an online petition to get Dead To The World a dvd release somewhere.

I found it: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/deadtotheworld/

[Sutekh]

God is in the tv is great but it's annoying how hardly any of the songs get shown in full

dead to the world is also great (really dead to the world, his book and ACSS are like companion pieces to each other), but has that annoying thing where it's the sound from one gig but footage from many different ones (which imo ruined the sphinctour dvd too)... just really off putting

spotted this on FB, also an interview with daisy where he sort of slags off ACSS http://www.blankmaninc.com/scott_mitchell_putesky/1

[Magtig]

Preview of guest stint on the new season of Californication:

[NotoriousTIMP]

God is in the tv is great but it's annoying how hardly any of the songs get shown in full

dead to the world is also great (really dead to the world, his book and ACSS are like companion pieces to each other), but has that annoying thing where it's the sound from one gig but footage from many different ones (which imo ruined the sphinctour dvd too)... just really off putting

spotted this on FB, also an interview with daisy where he sort of slags off ACSS http://www.blankmaninc.com/scott_mitchell_putesky/1

I couldn't agree more. I hate it when a band does this, it's like they were just cashing in on a quick buck.

Speaking of Scott, I had the chance to chat with him back in 2011 when I was buying his Self Destruct Tour laminate off of him. He's a super cool guy and we chatted a little bit about the '94 tour as well as what he had been up to. When I got the laminate he had tossed in a photo of him and TR together as well as a cool little write up about the meaning behind the "Man of the Year" pass.

[Sutekh]

wow, really nice piece of memorabilia to have...

also, cop shoot cop tshirt - respect

[Maul]

He states that Manson's relation with Twiggy is deteriorating right now or I read it poorly?

[Sutekh]

that seems to be what he said, but how he would know that I'm not so sure

[Conan The Barbarian]

I just read the interview, I really cannot believe anything that anyone that is or was in the band have to say.

The article makes daisy look bitter and jealous.

[voidnz]

It sure does, how can you criticize one of the best rock/metal albums of the 90's. Sure, Manson could have kept that Spooky Kids/Portrait sound but would the band have made it that far on the back of it? Probably not.

[ManBurning]

Now this is classic Marilyn Manson!

[Hazekiah]

@Hazekiah - I'd like to hear your opinion of this being a "Born Villain" tour to support the new album and why he only plays maybe 3-4 songs a night, if that from this album.

Sorry, this got lost in the shuffle but I meant to respond earlier.

Except I'd already answered it in the post above yours.

And about a third of the setlist being new material with the remaining 2/3rds reserved for singles and live staples is reasonable enough. So, yeah...I can totally defend that, actually.

^ So there you go.

and haz ease up with the "stfu if you dont know what youre talking about stuff", remember you are standing there blaming reznor when you have no idea what happened either, you weren't there. Maybe somebody broke into the studio while he was away, maybe it was an accident of some kind... Sounds unlikely of course, but nonetheless we cannot know for sure either way

Just to be clear and for the record, I never claimed to know the specifics of the situation as if I'd been there and AGAIN my statements on the matter were all adequately and appropriately qualified to reflect that. Since the point seems to have been steadfastly missed repeatedly, I say again that I'm simply holding Reznor responsible for what happened on his watch and under his roof, regardless of whether or not he himself was personally responsible for the disappearance of the masters. He's obviously a person of interest in the matter, but that's a separate matter from the primary point I was making.

And my references to at least having half-a-clue wtf I'm talking about as opposed to the bulk of the commentary elsewhere in this thread was simply pertaining to the matters of the timeline, the flood, the quasi-remastering for Lest We Forget, and general knowledge of what information IS available on the controversy surrounding the loss of the masters. They are missing. Manson's mentioned it. Reznor's confirmed it. It's not hearsay.

That wiki article states he was on God Is In the TV home video. does anyone know when? Cant be the vids since Twiggy pretty much was in the band at that time.

As far as I know Gidget's nowhere to be found there unless he's glimpsed in the backstage footage somewhere briefly or something. I'd assume for the time being that it's just another wikifail.

I've never seen God Is In The TV or Dead To The World. Were these titles ever released to DVD?

Not officially, although there have been several very nice bootleg transfers available over the years. And I don't use iTunes but I've heard mention of them having been available there officially at least for a while.

I'd LOVE to see them on DVD/Blu-Ray officially someday myself. It's classic stuff and well-deserving of the deluxe treatment...surround sound ESPECIALLY.

Speaking of Scott, I had the chance to chat with him back in 2011 when I was buying his Self Destruct Tour laminate off of him. He's a super cool guy and we chatted a little bit about the '94 tour as well as what he had been up to. When I got the laminate he had tossed in a photo of him and TR together as well as a cool little write up about the meaning behind the "Man of the Year" pass. :)

AWESOME STUFF, thanks for sharing! He definitely has issues but it was really cool of him to throw in the extra pic and info with the certification.

Speaking of which, any chance we could get better pics or scans (or links to bigger versions of the existing ones) so we could get a better look at the content of the letter? Looks like it's really interesting and I'm sure we'd all love to see it!

:)

also, cop shoot cop tshirt - respect

The whole band seemed to trade wardrobe items pretty freely quite a bit back then so it's hard to be certain, but it's worth mentioning that this is literally the ONLY picture I've ever seen of Daisy wearing that specific Cop Shoot Cop shirt whereas there are at least a dozen of Pogo wearing it. Pretty sure it's probably his instead. Either way, though...FUCK, YEAH. One of my favorite bands! Tod Ashley, Firewater, etc. = <3

It sure does, how can you criticize one of the best rock/metal albums of the 90's. Sure, Manson could have kept that Spooky Kids/Portrait sound but would the band have made it that far on the back of it? Probably not.

Daisy's work with Manson is of course great, but he really does come across no-so-flatteringly whenever he seems to discuss the band. Interviews like this recent one really underscore Manson's point that Daisy simply didn't get it and needed to go for the sake of the band. His interview on VH1's shock rock episode for "Metal Evolution" leaps to mind.

But, yeah...dismissing not just one but BOTH of his former band's most commercially successful and and critically acclaimed albums looks pretty transparent.

:-\

[Sutekh]

Yeah but Haz, how do you know that Reznor hadn't given the masters to a storage company that lost them? Or charged someone else with looking after the studio? How do you know the studio wasn't broken into or flooded or whatever? Surely that wouldn't be his fault

If Reznor hired someone to mop the floors at nothing studios but they were dirty on monday morning, is that Reznor's fault?

You're proceeding on the assumption that Reznor has a Duck Tales style vault of all the Nothing records masters which is at his house & he personally locks every night, but really it could just as easily (and probably more likely) be the case that somebody else was in charge of storing these things - but the point is you don't know for sure either way, and you're categorically saying it was definitely Reznor's fault

[fillow]

@Sutekh you should know Haz's answer by now without even asking. Let me paraphrase: "I have no idea what really happened and who's actually responsible. I'm still gonna blame Reznor"

[jessamineny]

Yeah but Haz, how do you know that Reznor hadn't given the masters to a storage company that lost them? Or charged someone else with looking after the studio? How do you know the studio wasn't broken into or flooded or whatever? Surely that wouldn't be his fault

If Reznor hired someone to mop the floors at nothing studios but they were dirty on monday morning, is that Reznor's fault?

You're proceeding on the assumption that Reznor has a Duck Tales style vault of all the Nothing records masters which is at his house & he personally locks every night, but really it could just as easily (and probably more likely) be the case that somebody else was in charge of storing these things - but the point is you don't know for sure either way, and you're categorically saying it was definitely Reznor's fault

Reznor's spent his ENTIRE CAREER bitching about record labels interfering with and destroying his art, yet whether through sins of omission or commission -- depending on his level of involvement -- he is ultimately responsible for EXACTLY that. Could've been deliberate, could've been negligence, could've been someone else...but it happened under HIS roof and under HIS watch.

If you go back and read his initial post, @Hazekiah certainly didn't say it was categorically TR's fault. What he wrote boils down to: As a co-owner of Nothing, TR was responsible for safeguarding those assets. Period.

For example (working off your post)... If TR did "give the masters to a storage company" or hire someone to "look after the studio," it was his job to make sure those agents were sound choices. If those agents failed in their job, the failure ultimately falls at his feet. It's just the way things work for professionals. Just like it would have been his job to ensure the security for such precious assets from theft. His job to design (or delegate and then approve) a storage environment safe from fire and flood, and to create contingency rescue plans if the need should ever arise.

I have no horse in this race. No opinion on what TR did, didn't do, or might have done with these masters. I just feel like folks are latching onto parts when Hazekiah pointed at TR personally ("Looks like the devastating loss is solely isolated to the case of the guy who the owner of Nothing was already publicly engaged with in a bitter feud. Hmm. Funny how that works") and ignoring when his criticisms were more measured (of TR professionally).

[Sutekh]

Well, where responsiblity begins and ends is a philosophical debate that I'm not worthy to end. But I will say that if MM considers it Reznor's fault because Reznor was entrusted with the task, why is the hypothetical safe deposit box keeper not at fault when Reznor entrusts him with a task in the exact same way?

Admittedly by my logic, very few Nazis were guilty, but like I said... I'm not capable of finishing this debate so let's sweep it under the rug for now :P

Anyway ;
"Hazekiah certainly didn't say it was categorically TR's fault"

Is incorrect because the sentiment of

"it happened under HIS roof and under HIS watch."

is very clearly that it is no-one else but Reznor's fault, and categorically blaming someone is when you blame without leaving room for exceptions.

[Hazekiah]

If you go back and read his initial post, @Hazekiah certainly didn't say it was categorically TR's fault. What he wrote boils down to: As a co-owner of Nothing, TR was responsible for safeguarding those assets. Period.

For example (working off your post)... If TR did "give the masters to a storage company" or hire someone to "look after the studio," it was his job to make sure those agents were sound choices. If those agents failed in their job, the failure ultimately falls at his feet. It's just the way things work for professionals. Just like it would have been his job to ensure the security for such precious assets from theft. His job to design (or delegate and then approve) a storage environment safe from fire and flood, and to create contingency rescue plans if the need should ever arise.

I have no horse in this race. No opinion on what TR did, didn't do, or might have done with these masters. I just feel like folks are latching onto parts when Hazekiah pointed at TR personally ("Looks like the devastating loss is solely isolated to the case of the guy who the owner of Nothing was already publicly engaged with in a bitter feud. Hmm. Funny how that works") and ignoring when his criticisms were more measured (of TR professionally).

Jesus fucking Christ, THANK YOU.

Finally, someone who can read.

And, to borrow from your superb breakdown...

Sutehk, surely you're capable of grasping that "TR was responsible for safeguarding those assets" is not the same as "it is no-one else but Reznor's fault." Yet again, I repeat; these are two separate matters.

Whether or not it was Trent Reznor himself who was actively involved in the mysterious case of the disappearing masters has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not he may still be held accountable for his dereliction of duty with regards to their stewardship.

[october_midnight]

That's a fair enough point, in the end it very well could have been deliberate and even if not, TR could've ensured that the masters were better taken care of. Like I said, if it was deliberate (which I highly doubt)...what a dick move. I doubt it, as TR was so heavily involved in it and without him, Manson would be taking orders at the nearest Jack in The Box.

In the end, it's all in the past. What can ya do.

[Sutekh]

Sutehk, surely you're capable of grasping that "TR was responsible for safeguarding those assets" is not the same as "it is no-one else but Reznor's fault." Yet again, I repeat; these are two separate matters.

So you're saying it was his responsibility to make sure they didn't go missing, but you're not saying it's his fault they did.

Deary, deary me!

It's yours mate, have it & eat it

[jessamineny]

If I may, again... I believe Hazekiah is saying: "TR is responsible" and "Only TR is responsible" are two different matters.

[Sutekh]

Hazekiah is trying to say he didn't mean to say Trent INTENTIONALLY lost the tapes (except he didn't specifically say that). But I'm not picking this up because accroding to hiim I can't read... as in read minds, or between the lines? certainly not read what he's written, because he didn't specify.


He is saying it is Trent's fault, so I'm really at a loss as to why he objects to my pointing that out.

[screwdriver]

I was under the impression the masters were lost during hurricane katrina?

Spiral Chat:

guy: Jordie I've lost the masters of my first three albums along with my creativity and ability to write good music. Any idea where they are? Bri
jeordie_white: Floating down magazine street?

http://theninhotline.net/archives/ar...cle.php?id=290

[BRoswell]

He is saying it is Trent's fault, so I'm really at a loss as to why he objects to my pointing that out.

Maybe there's more to it when he calls him a "hypocritical fucking scumbag"? I don't know. I'm not an expert on such deep conversations.

[Conan The Barbarian]

So I just asked Daisy on how he knew about Manson's and Twiggy's "deteriorating" relationship. Apparently, as much shit he talks about Manson in the press, he still texts him every once and a while.

Believe what you want to believe.

[ManBurning]

If I may, again... I believe Hazekiah is saying: "TR is responsible" and "Only TR is responsible" are two different matters.

In the words of Trent Reznor: "There is no you, there is Only me"

So there we have it! The meaning behind the song "Only" is his confession that he lost the ACSS masters. Case Closed.

[NotoriousTIMP]

I fucking HATE ticketmaster....are conscience fees based on ticket price? How the fuck is that fair?









All of them are at the same venue. Ugh....TM really makes it difficult to go to a show now-a-days. It's such a turn off that my $54 ticket suddenly jumps up to a $67 ticket. Looks like I'm making a trip down to the box office to pick up a ticket with a $2 fee rather than TM's BS few....