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So, when did this become a Share Morrisey's Music Thread?
Stubby Member
Couldn't possibly agree with you more. That first album is really something special, isn't it? It's such a pity that it's overshadowed in the catalogue by album after album of tuneless, lifeless, sexless music for men with baseball caps concealing bald spots and fridges full of Coors Light. I always thought his nice-guy rep was a bit suspect, but I'm suspicious of people who make 'nice' part of their brand. Ever had any friends who consider themselves 'nice guys'? I've known a few, and they all end up being pretty friggin' scary. Also, the sissy boy bitchfit that Dave Grohl had over Skrillex at the Grammies was embarrassing to watch.Originally Posted by aggroculture
Last edited by BlueCalx; 05-13-2012 at 10:47 AM.
Stubby Member
Around about the time it stopped being an 'awkwardly debate the worth of the Beatles' thread.
Active Member
I think even foos fans want to like them more than they actually do... Same as later manic street preachers... Feel bad slagging it given the history, but its breezy prozac fm rock to play in your mondeo on the way to ikea. I liked probot though, shake your blood is the best motorhead song since 1992 (effectively)
Throbbing Member
Nice thread...
I guess there are some artists who are 'too much' part of their time. For example, I can't relate to Bob Dylan anymore. His writing, his music and his style belong to the Boomer generation. I`m not interested in it. Same thing with Nirvana - it's music made for Generation X. It's of no relevance today, in my opinion.
The Beatles deserve their reputation. Noone did concept albums because Frank Zappa did it first, but many people wanted to role-play like Sgt. Pepper (I'm looking at you, David Bowie). Sgt. Pepper was Paul's idea and he is not only a better songwriter than Lennon but also almost as revolutionary. I'd say that "Helter Skelter" was the very first heavy metal song. But John was needed as a corrective to keep Paul from writing too much shlock.
It seems that there are two worlds of music, one for casual listeners and one for the real fans. For example, a lot of people on this board, music critics and other really interested people would say that Radiohead is one of the best, if not the best currently active band. But could your mother name one Radiohead song? Would you ever have a gospel choir sing a Radiohead sing like they sing 'Let it be'?
That's why I think that U2 are not overrated - they were, not the best, but maybe the biggest band of the world until they released No Line on the Horizon (then it was Coldplay). Everyone knows at least Beautiful Day or Vertigo (or One).
Starfuckers, Wink.
Daisy Berkowitz (and by obvious extension, TR) is the only reason I even bothered listening to Marilyn Manson in the first place. Portrait of an American Family still has the coolest/most innovative guitar work of all their albums, IMO. And they were a lot more aggressive and psychedelic with him live, than without.
The Trocadero ‘95 show on Youtube is just about the best MM show I’ve ever seen.
Sure as hell sounds better than Twiggy playing guitars now.
Last edited by jezstyle; 05-13-2012 at 10:59 AM.
Active Member
Yep early MM and spooky kids was very psych... Reeks of acid. Totally different band
i think the beatles do deserve their reputation but nonetheless they get credit for things they didnt pioneer. Its a very specific point im making (badly, perhaps! Captain dickhead certainly doesnt get what im saying), for instance yourself you credit helter skelter as the first heavy metal song, but blue cheer and the kinks, to an extent hendrix were making stabs at proto metal long before '68. That is what i mean by overrated - not overrated generally speaking, but in certain ways. I think thats perfectly rational
Active Member
Jimi Hendrix: I realize he revolutionized the electric guitar yadda yadda yadda. But I don't enjoy listening to his music. I also don't find that he has good songs. Feel free to make suggestions.
Stubby Member
Noel and Liam Gallagher on Be Here Now, Oasis's obese masterpiece. It makes me kind of nuts, but I'm with Liam on this one. It does rock, especially when you're getting ready to go out.
Stubby Member
Oh, hey, one last thing. I was really stoked to see a bunch of people come around in this thread to talk about how they had no use for TR's Ghosts. When I first heard that album I was struck by how cheap and tinny it sounded, how a lot of the stronger melodies were blatant retreads of stuff from TDS and The Fragile, and how totally out of step it sounded with contemporary electronic music. The instrumentals from The Fragile hold up really well because they reflect Trent drawing influence from this broad cross-section of music. The stuff on Ghosts sounds like Trent drawing influence from himself, and from his two or three all-time favourite bands.
Throbbing Member
I'm glad someone took the shit I said about Morrissey and eloquently explained why they loved it. I see no point in talking shit about music and artists without the possibility of getting some cultural exchange out of it. Isn't that the point of even interacting with people?
I do admit Morrissey kinda hogged a nice chunk of this thread... fucking Morrissey.
Active Member
^^ 100 times this!
It may not be their masterpiece, but I get a huge kick out of be here now and Oasis in general. I just don't get why so many people hate on them, yet their gigs are among my favorite concert moments ever (both Oasis shows and the respective shows from Beady Eye and Noel)! Not that often you get to witness such a cheerful, friendly and overall appreciative crowd singing along to the music as with Oasis. Hell, I even made friends at pretty much every single show I've been to. Doesn't matter from where the fans are, Germany, the UK, America, Spain or Italy they just bring people together and frankly I haven't had this kind of pleasure at many others shows yet. At least not to that extend and I'm not even in a fanclub or browsing through related message boards.
I guess most of the discomfort people have with these guys comes from the negative publicity both of them generate and their overall behaviour. I for one can tolerate that and hell I even find it funny at times. Other musician's feuds are way more annoying and constantly shoved into your face by the media than Oasis' IMHO.
Throbbing Member
Nirvana. Talk about ridiculously overrated. I thought they were pretty middle of the road even when they came out, but then Kurt blew his head off and all the sudden they were the voice of a generation.
The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo and Facebook are both incredibly boring soundtracks. Hours and hours of recycled Fragile & Ghosts ideas, melodies and sounds; especially the guitar tone. If you really must recycle how about using the tones from Broken? To this day I've never heard guitars that sound like that anywhere else (yeah, yeah, I know, probably not a good fit for a boring soundtrack). Regarding Ghosts, if Trent's going to make instrumental music, it would be nice if it went more in the direction of the noise experiments on Year Zero and Fixed, as far as I'm concerned.
tempus est umbra in mente
I'm not listening? I VERY CLEARLY specified rock music in my last post! I thought the implication was already obvious, but since it apparently wasn't, I thought I clarified that. How can I be more clear? Do I need to say "by the way, when I say ROCK music, I'm not talking about electronic dance music or modern classical?" Is that necessary?
Last edited by Jinsai; 05-13-2012 at 02:38 PM.
Throbbing Member
Nirvana = over rated
Stone Temple Pilots and Alice In Chains are under rated.
Prog rock was the best music of the 70's (Yes, ELP, King Crimson)
Genesis after Gabriel sucks.
Led Zeppelin has like 3 good songs.
Rollin Stones suck nuts.
Musicians should stop performing as they near 60. I love Bob Dylan but he needs to stop touring.
tempus est umbra in mente
That's not a controversial opinion
Stubby Member
My only controversial music opinion: Who the fuck is Morrisey?
Throbbing Member
Since putting down the drugs Primal Scream suck. I wish they were back on drugs. Not Heroin, just speed and Ketamine and GHB.
Matt Johnson of The The is the most underrated British musician ever.
SST records with the exception of Meat Puppets and Husker Du is the most over praised record label ever. Black Flag sucked except for the track Depression.
I find Pearl Jam's music deeply emotional and love their early output. Eddie Vedder is a beautiful human being.
Bono is a manipulative greedy scumbag. Total fake.
James Hetfield is the worst vocalist ever. If you were to remove him, I would love Metallica.
Late period Ramones in underrated.
Wire were more important than the Sex Pistols.
House Music in the early 90's was better than Grunge.
Morrissey has never really been celibate. He is a raging Homosexual with multiple ex boyfriends.
Gang of Four have an awful guitar sound.
Active Member
Rationally i would have to concur, but your napoleon dynamite rage boners are worth feigning ignorance for
THE BEATLES ARE TOTALLY SWEET YOU FRICKIN IIIIDIOT...
adolescent tosser
Here is why I think you aren't listening - i am saying that the beatles get credit for stuff they dont deserve. Your reply to that is "they were very very influential on rock bands"
Even though i never denied that... I even state this is the case, but again and again you point it out. Yes they were very influential, so much so that many people assume they innovated things they didnt... In this very thread somebody credits them with writing the first heavy metal song, which is not the case. That is what I am saying, but you dont address it, you seem convinced that im saying they werent a big deal and rock owes them nothing - I am not saying that!
Last edited by Sutekh; 05-13-2012 at 04:31 PM.
Throbbing Member
oh, I know lots of people who prefer Collin's era
Throbbing Member
I really hate to say this as I'm a huge fan of Alan Moulder and everything he's done (exaggeration). I especially love his early projects with The Jesus and Mary Chain, My Bloody Valentine, Curve and so on... I love that.
I loved his work with NIN, BUT... I'm sick of his sound now. I'd like the next NIN record to have the balls to work outside its comfort zone.
The NIN&Moulder package has become the sonic equivalent to the joke that is Burton&Depp.
tempus est umbra in mente
You started a thread called "Controversial Music Opinions," and you have a fit when people disagree with your oh-so-edgy opinion that The Beatles (the single most influential rock band of all time) are "overrated." It's a discussion board. We're having a discussion wherein I'm saying that I don't agree with your opinion. There's no rage here.
Active Member
Lol, im not trying to be edgy, i genuinely think people give them undue credit. Plenty of other people in this thread have disagreed with me and i havent taken issue - because they werent pricks about it. You have a false perception of me as some conceited contarian, its irritating because i know what you mean - but that is totally not what im doing!
Active Member
Never understood the appeal of Bjork. I flat out don't like her music.
Throbbing Member
I like Led Zeppelin a lot - it's the drumming that does it...but it's disheartening to learn how much they stole/copied from others. And AC/DC post-back to black was a cheap version of Led Zeppelin.
Kanye West's last album was an overproduced mess, and he should stay silent on his records.
ABBA, George Michael and The Bee Gees are very underrated.
tempus est umbra in mente
Where was I being a prick? You're the one who's been throwing personal insults out. I haven't even insulted you (yet).
Also, I've never heard people give The Beatles credit for inventing the things they experimented with and popularized. For instance, with regards to metal, Helter Skelter was a huge pioneering song that radically affected and influenced the bands that went on to create what is commonly referred to as metal. Ozzy was obsessed with The Beatles. They also were a milestone for the use of distortion in rock music, especially with popular rock music that was getting radio play. Did they single-handedly invent the genre? No, but they influenced the living shit out of it.
Just because there's some people out there who think "The Beatles invented the tambourine" doesn't mean that the band is suddenly overrated because someone didn't know what they were talking about.
Active Member
Oh god.... Yes it does! If some people think the beatles invented the wheel, then those people overrate the beatles! As i have already said, this is not to say they are overrated generally... Its not just a few idiots either, the hysteria surrounding the band causes many rational people to make irrational assumptions - it is true to say that in some quarters and in some ways, they are overrated
Overrated does not mean shit, overrated does not necessarily mean completely undeserving of all received praise - that is why i object to you continually pointing out the obviously high stature of the band. You are incorrect in assuming that "overrated" is a term that can only apply to a majority. Something can be overrated by a minority
Mr A overrates the quality of his crops. The crops are overrated, in that mr A overrates them. You are hung up on the colloquial argot, where "overrated" means generally hailed but actually rubbish
Last edited by Sutekh; 05-13-2012 at 06:39 PM.
tempus est umbra in mente
I met someone who honestly thought Nine Inch Nails invented industrial rock. There's a lot of reasons you could come up with to claim that NIN is overrated, but that guy (who I'm sure isn't alone in drawing that conclusion) isn't a very good reason.
Under your reasoning here, every mainstream band is overrated, because as soon as everyone knows who they are, some uninformed person is going to say something stupid. The more popular they are, the more people like them, the greater the chance that people will walk around saying things that are untrue and misrepresentative.
Last edited by Jinsai; 05-13-2012 at 06:39 PM.
Active Member
I follow your reasoning and you have me there,. But having thought about it, I guess the diference is that this is the beatles we are talking about here. The reason they are in a sense overrated is because of their immense, unparalelled popularity and the unmatched degree of discussion they merit - in Britain, I guarantee you that every single day, there will be a reference to the beatles in a newspaper. They have a profile that no band can macth, and as such, no band can match the sheer amount of bollocks talked about the beatles
Their profile and stature is so far beyond that of any other band that perhaps you cannot accurately transpose some criticisms onto lesser bands. Yep a couple a people might think NIN invented industrial rock, and you are correct in believing that is not significant, but i honestly wouldnt be surprised if hundreds of thousands think the beatles invented rock, psychedelia etc
i dont know you but in the born villain thread you came across as very snotty when talking to harry seaward (yep even though he should listen to an album of theirs before damning. But it is possible to be right and be a dick while you're at it), and quite frankly you don't know the score on the fact/opinion issue - that other guy was on a blatant troll, but he was right. So basically Im in a circular argument with you over more or less the same issues... Cant help but roll my eyes a bit. But I could be wrong, who cares never mind etc. this bollocks is no doubt beyond tedious for everyone else so im going to give it a kick in the arse
Last edited by Sutekh; 05-13-2012 at 07:12 PM.
Active Member
To be fair, Harry Seaward is nothing more than a Marylin Manson fanboy, so he had it coming.
Seriously though, fuck AC/DC.
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