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Thread: Controversial Music Opinions...

  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCalx View Post
    I think Weezer has always been secretly awful, and that they've managed to hoodwink an enormous amount of critics and fans by way of Rivers's 'eccentric genius' personality and the interesting story of their career after Pinkerton flopped.The Blue album is full of great songwriting, that's undeniable, but good power pop is actually something that's not all that hard to do. There's acres of awesome power pop out there, stuff that makes the best material Rivers has coughed up pale in comparison. Weezer, when they first came around, were doing a less bratty version of what Green Day were doing, and if it weren't for the way that Pinkerton's release played out, they'd be seen, quite rightfully, as contemporaries of Hootie and the Blowfish and Sister Hazel. Pinkerton is a wretched record. It's a cheap, tawdry imitation of the Pixies, Superchunk, and Pavement in sound, and a huge step backwards in songwriting from Blue. If you identify with the lyrics of Pinkerton, if you put that album on and you hear yourself singing back to you, you need to see a shrink. I'm not joking. Everything since then has been abysmal, the absolute worst kind of rock music, cynical songs and gunky production that denies any sort of intimacy or engagement. Seriously, fuck Weezer.

    Okay....

    I'm not a big Weezer fan. Far from it, I think their new music is the shittiest stuff out there, and they have broken new ground in redefining the term "sell out." I'm not even that big of a fan of their old stuff. I enjoy The Blue Album, and I think Pinkerton is pretty great. I definitely like Pinkerton better than anything else they've done.

    That article you linked to was incredibly self absorbed and bizarre.... unless it changes gears and starts making a point after page 3, since that's where I stopped reading. Sorry, it was driving me nuts. And no, it's not entirely fair to brand Weezer (or the Pinkerton album specifically) as a Pavement rip off, considering that it wasn't THAT different from the Blue album and they were doing all of this around the exact same time as Pavement. Superchunk maybe, but the Pixies? Hell no.

    Weezer were a fun and decent band... and I don't get people hating on Pinkerton, when this is the band that went on to make this.



    They went on to make terrible unimaginative and boring power rock by numbers, and they sucked satan's cock all the way to the bank. This was long after Pinkteron though, which stands out now as something pretty damn good, especially by comparison.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 05-31-2012 at 03:46 PM.

  2. #482
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    Ah, well, I do hear a ton of Pixies in Pinkerton, particularly later stuff (and, come to that, early solo Frank Black). Pavement's there in the production, but those guys were never as clever as Pavement. I still find Pavement unlistenable, but I'd take a year of nothing but Pavement over a week of Weezer. I'm sorry you couldn't find much use for that article, I found it extremely useful: it did a much better job of articulating the feelings of anxiety and revulsion I have listening to Pinkerton than I could. The best stuff is actually on Page 4, when the writer talks about "Across the Sea". That song grosses me the fuck out, in particular the climax of "It's all your fault, MAMAAAAAAA!" The whole thing is tiresome, boring, offputting. I don't like listening to my friends kvetch endlessly about getting rejected and I'm not interested in hearing it in song.

  3. #483
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    I don't think Weezer really ever sold out, they just got shit. Listen to Buddy Holly or Say It Ain't So: they were drawing from the middle of the mainstream from the very beginning; just that it was a 60s pop mainstream. Weezer never were an indie or underground band, though they certainly did a good job of wrapping things up in indie clothing, especially circa the first two albums.

  4. #484
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    yeah, it's hard to say the band was ever anything but mainstream fodder from the get-go. formed in LA, first gig opening for keanu reeves' band (yeah, they suck, but still), immediate major label deal with ric ocasek on the boards? they always had their eyes on the prize. but if anything, the problem was that the band lost that clever knack for writing decent pop tunes with witty, fun lyrics. whatever wit was present on the blue album was lost during their hiatus (or as their audience grew up), the music severely declined and then they put a photo of that guy from lost on an album cover... the rest is hi$tory.

  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCalx View Post
    Ah, well, I do hear a ton of Pixies in Pinkerton, particularly later stuff (and, come to that, early solo Frank Black). Pavement's there in the production, but those guys were never as clever as Pavement. I still find Pavement unlistenable, but I'd take a year of nothing but Pavement over a week of Weezer. I'm sorry you couldn't find much use for that article, I found it extremely useful: it did a much better job of articulating the feelings of anxiety and revulsion I have listening to Pinkerton than I could. The best stuff is actually on Page 4, when the writer talks about "Across the Sea". That song grosses me the fuck out, in particular the climax of "It's all your fault, MAMAAAAAAA!" The whole thing is tiresome, boring, offputting. I don't like listening to my friends kvetch endlessly about getting rejected and I'm not interested in hearing it in song.
    There's a big difference between being influenced by The Pixies and "shamelessly ripping them off." The Pixies influenced tons of bands. I can see a stylistic similarity to Pavement, but again, it's not really fair to say they ripped them off.

    The article didn't work for me because I was never a twelve year old girl and I never thought Rivers Cuomo is cute. I also don't give a shit about Weezer's lyrics really. Sing about fucking, sing about not getting fucked enough. Whatever. As long as you're not blatantly attaching words that are utterly and transparently meaningless to a power-pop-by-numbers track that you can puke out on cue, I'm not bothered really... and even then, it's the sentiment that really counts. You can sing "oo ee oo I look like fucking Buddy Holly" and I don't care, because the sentiment is harmless.

    I'm not implying Weezer were ever an underground band. There's just something special about diluting your formula into a self-parody ad jingle for State Farm. In addition, the last thirty or so albums they've shit out have been terrible.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 05-31-2012 at 04:04 PM.

  6. #486
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    I don't think you need to have been a twelve-year-old girl, or have been attracted to RC, to be able to empathize. I don't, as a rule, pay all that much attention to lyrics. Rivers's attitude toward sexuality and relationships squicks me, but I have no problem with Odd Future, Too Short, or other artists who air out malignant or teenage viewpoints in their lyrics. Rivers is the exception, him and guys like Drake. I guess I have a nice guy allergy.

  7. #487
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    I hear nothing from Pavement in Weezer. Pavement is one of my favorite bands ever, but I don't get that comparison one bit. Pavement were all about not giving a shit and never trying hard, Weezer are the exact opposite. If anything Pavement owe everything to Dinosaur Jr. and Pixies. Weezer owe everything to Ric Ocasek.

    As for them selling out, they've always had a tailored sound for the masses, but they just ran their course and started recording every idea that came to mind within the past decade. It's what I call Omar Rodriguez-Lopez syndrome.

    On the topic of Omar, I think Mars Volta absolutely suck. Some of my best friends and guys I've been in bands with worship Omar and TMV, I honestly think he hasn't done anything good since "Relationship of Command".

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kid Charlemagne View Post
    As for them selling out, they've always had a tailored sound for the masses, but they just ran their course and started recording every idea that came to mind within the past decade. It's what I call Omar Rodriguez-Lopez syndrome.

    On the topic of Omar, I think Mars Volta absolutely suck. Some of my best friends and guys I've been in bands with worship Omar and TMV, I honestly think he hasn't done anything good since "Relationship of Command".
    Up until this most recent Mars Volta album, I would have agreed somewhat... Noturniquet is my favorite rock album that I've heard this year though, hands down. I was really surprised, given that I haven't really liked anything from The Mars Volta before, and I always thought At the Drive In was the better band. I'm on the fence about that now actually.

  9. #489
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    I guess it's a matter of taste, but I find it hard to understand how anyone can think ATDI is better than TMV. ATDI is this youthful, rather naive and clumsy combination of RATM and Fugazi. I hear a lot of energy in their sound, but nothing new.
    TMV is where Omar and Cedric's talents finally found a place to come to fruition, and I don't mind at all that they sometimes overdo it. At least they think big, which is more than can be said for most rock bands today.

  10. #490
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    Oh, hey, here's one that I'm actually shocked hasn't been mentioned yet. Faith No More! I don't get why they've been so lauded. I like a lot of Mike Patton's other stuff, including early Mr. Bungle, but FNM has always sounded incredibly dated to me - corny production, simplistic rapping, way too close to the Chili Peppers for comfort. Or, rather, the FNM that I've heard has sounded that way. Beyond the really big songs, I've not investigated their music all that much. If there are any FNM trainspotters in the house who have recommendations or nice things to say about them, I would love to hear them.

  11. #491
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    Oh man. FNM is totally an album band and not a singles band. Listen to Angel Dust and King For A Day, practically every song is in a different style, with gems packed in there all the way to the back. FNM are pretty much a filler-free band. I would start with KFAD: it's my favourite FNM album, and it has aged a lot better than the more funk-metal styled sounds on Angel Dust or The Real Thing; also the cheesy 80s keyboards are largely absent from KFAD.

  12. #492
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    Bravo on the "weezer sold out from the start" remarks... People do get carried away, weezer are shit now, but they were always a simple pop rock band

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    Thurston Moore – I'd say I love 50+% of what he's done. He's influenced a ton of great bands not to mention my own music and aesthetics... BUT the man doesn't even try half of the time. Predictable, incredibly boring and blazé, along with Lee Ranaldo: one of the most unexciting voices responsible for ruining several Sonic Youth songs and live performances. I know it's supposed to be an "anti- talent" band with no interest in singing "correctly" - i get that, and i like that, but it doesn't mean it has to sound like my "rad" uncle trying to sing like Lou Reed. It ain't cool.
    Last edited by hobochic; 06-05-2012 at 01:02 PM.

  14. #494
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    Queens of The Stone Age. At least half of their songs I find uninspired and/or predictable.
    Last edited by Amaro; 08-04-2012 at 09:17 PM.

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    Can't find a (the) Sublime thread..

    To go, or not to go see the nu deal

    Ive seen AiC, Blind Melon & Snot reincarnated & respected what they did, great shows, albeit leary going into each.. Somehow I'm not sure about this one. I don't reall drink anymore & I'm not sure I can smoke this one oblivious enough to get past what it is

  16. #496
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    White pony is the only good deftones album... ...but it's one of the best albums ever

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    Around The Fur is the best Deftones album. White Pony is overrated: great songs, but overall it doesn't flow well together and sounds disjointed. Maybe that was the desired effect?
    Also, Deftones have been shit for about a decade now. Their new stuff sounds good for about a minute then gets immediately boring. And Chino's 50 new side projects can go fuck themselves, they all sound the same: like half-finished mellow Deftones tracks. I swear the guy's a one-trick pony if there ever was one. And an arrogant, unpleasant fuck in person.

  18. #498
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    I don't get the love for Green Day. One of the most generic pop-rock bands ever.

    Metallica's Load and Reload are great albums.

    Pablo Honey is not as bad as people picture it, you just have to be in the right mood for it.

    Iron Maiden, I respect their influence on heavy metal and such, but... Man, they're boring.

    Kanye West is a dickhead.

  19. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by burn. View Post
    Kanye West is a dickhead.
    I used to think this too, and I guess I still kind of think it? I mean he can get pretty ridiculous. But I've been really into his most recent albums lately. I guess you don't have to like an artist's persona to like his music.

  20. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by burn. View Post
    Kanye West is a dickhead.
    That's hardly controversial. Everyone knows that.

  21. #501
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    I don't get what people like so much about Queen

  22. #502
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    They just write fucking good songs, have great flair, are comfortable in a wide range of genres and styles, are inventive and bold and witty and literate and smooth. Freddie Mercury was a fantastic frontman, full of positive energy and charisma and a great ear for a catchy pop melody: his death is a great loss to the rock world. These days, "Queen" can do all the musicals they like, but I'd really rather they stop attempting to play live with whoever wants to step up to the karaoke mic, and fail.

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    I don't know why Trent took the Dresden Dolls as support in 2005. This kind music is just terrible!

  24. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by aggroculture View Post
    They just write fucking good songs, have great flair, are comfortable in a wide range of genres and styles, are inventive and bold and witty and literate and smooth. Freddie Mercury was a fantastic frontman, full of positive energy and charisma and a great ear for a catchy pop melody: his death is a great loss to the rock world. These days, "Queen" can do all the musicals they like, but I'd really rather they stop attempting to play live with whoever wants to step up to the karaoke mic, and fail.
    What were the good songs? The only Queen song I really enjoy is "I'm Going Slightly Mad"

    I'm not being antagonistic, but what were the songs? Bicycle? We Are the Champions? We Will Rock You?
    This shit is anthemic, but awful pandering bullshit. Bohemian Rhapsody is a ludicrous joke... doesn't the band even admit that (I hope?)

    I love Under Pressure, but that's due to the balance Bowie brings to the melodramatic pop. Queen.. I don't fucking know. I can appreciate Mercury's stagemanship, and his vocal ability, and sure, Brian May is a great and innovative guitarist, but what songs are we talking about when we say that they were really great?

    Maybe I approach it wrong, but I went into their music with the understanding that this was supposed to be great, and it just sounded like ridiculous rock musical bullshit to me. Queen has been the most difficult music that I've actively tried to appreciate (because everyone tells me I should) and just completely been incapable of understanding why people authentically like it. I'm getting into conspiracy theory territory here. At this point, I wonder if anybody has ever really "liked" Queen's music.

    PLEASE, point me to a good song. I would like to get it.
    Last edited by Jinsai; 08-06-2012 at 05:13 AM.

  25. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    PLEASE, point me to a good song. I would like to get it.
    By no means a fan, but I remember being really into "The Prophet's Song" (or something to that effect) when I was a kid and mum would blast Queen in the car 24/7. But yeah, "Under Pressure" is undeniably their magnum opus and Bowie MAKES that song, so...

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    You have to question the judgement of people who decide to make ADAM FUCKING LAMBERT their new frontman.

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    I hate The Beatles. I respect the enormous influence they have had on music, but I cannot stand them at all.

  28. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinsai View Post
    What were the good songs? The only Queen song I really enjoy is "I'm Going Slightly Mad"

    I'm not being antagonistic, but what were the songs? Bicycle? We Are the Champions? We Will Rock You?
    This shit is anthemic, but awful pandering bullshit. Bohemian Rhapsody is a ludicrous joke... doesn't the band even admit that (I hope?)

    I love Under Pressure, but that's due to the balance Bowie brings to the melodramatic pop. Queen.. I don't fucking know. I can appreciate Mercury's stagemanship, and his vocal ability, and sure, Brian May is a great and innovative guitarist, but what songs are we talking about when we say that they were really great?

    Maybe I approach it wrong, but I went into their music with the understanding that this was supposed to be great, and it just sounded like ridiculous rock musical bullshit to me. Queen has been the most difficult music that I've actively tried to appreciate (because everyone tells me I should) and just completely been incapable of understanding why people authentically like it. I'm getting into conspiracy theory territory here. At this point, I wonder if anybody has ever really "liked" Queen's music.

    PLEASE, point me to a good song. I would like to get it.
    Nah, if OTT operatic pop turns your stomach, you will not like Queen. It really does depend on whether you think getting a bit carried away is fun or cringeworthy.

    People do honestly like it, it's just not your thing.

    For me, the reason I like Queen is because the tunes are catchy and fun - but mercury's persona makes it. He is just totally letting himself go and is probably totally aware how ridiculous it is - but he does not give a shit, it's how he feels. And I think a lot of people live vicariously through it. The feel is "I am not afraid to be ridiculous and overblown, I am not ashamed of who I am".

    I love it but I can see how it could be cringeworthily off putting.

    Good songs? Play the game, going slightly mad, these are the days of our lives, another one bites the dust... But I dunno, is there any point in listing songs? i'm pretty sure you won't like any of them if you didn't like the ones you've listed already

    A good reason to hate them is their playing apartheid south africa... And "hot space"

  29. #509
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    They were a fun live band back in the day, but I thought their albums had a lot of boring filler.

    I like "Tie Your Mother Down" and "Death on Two Legs" and "Killer Queen" -- and "Bohemian Rhapsody because it's so silly (Wayne's World). But there's a lot of crap I don't (never did) like.

    edit: Oh, and I fucking HATE "Bicycle."
    Last edited by allegro; 08-06-2012 at 09:26 PM.

  30. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by allegro View Post
    edit: Oh, and I fucking HATE "Bicycle."
    Thank you...

    But yeah, Killer Queen is a good song. And sure, Tie Your Mother Down is pretty good too.

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