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I love that this 20th Ann'y shirt omits Back To School on the tracklisting. - https://deftones.merchdirect.com/pro...-white-t-shirt
I bought White Pony on release day along with Mer De Noms back in 2000 and that was a magical time. Almost 15 years old, figuring out music, man, what a fucking time.
she/her/hers
the 10th anniversary vinyl pressing (which i have) also omits "back to school" and i was so happy about that.Originally Posted by ltrandazzo
listening party tonight on their youtube channel.
Throbbing Member
As it fucking should!
Active Member
Wonder if it will be any better than the DE effort.
Banned
I always found it odd how the band totally disavows 'Back To School' and Chino always says how much it sucks yet they gleefully played it live a lot from 2009-2012.........
Last edited by Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell); 06-22-2020 at 03:32 PM.
Stubby Member
I mean they were still playing it as recently as their last full US tour a few years ago. As far as straight up rap-rock nu-metal goes, Back to School is a lot better than say Linkin Park or Limp Bizkit, but it's still one of Deftones' lesser songs.
I ordered that long sleeve 20th anniversary White Pony shirt just now. Right when the weather's hitting the mid 80's at the start of summer, so it'll probably sit in my closet for 4 months before I get to wear it.
Last edited by ViN; 06-22-2020 at 03:45 PM. Reason: T shirt
Throbbing Member
It's a song that they don't feel strongly about it only exists to appease a label that was worried about the stylistic change White Pony had. However, it's still a fun song, and I'm sure that's why they've been playing it.
she/her/hers
i have no issue with the song itself, but i hate it as an album opener. it makes no sense and totally fucks up the emotional arc of the album.
Active Member
Who hurt you?
Matador de Froot Loops
When i bought the album, my version had "Back to School" as the opener, so it has always been that way to me, i found out it was a "bonus track", years later
BADGERS
I'm definitely puzzled about why they changed it... The Boys Repuic is a highlight...
Throbbing Member
They didn't change anything. They prefer the original tracklisting, but the label decided they wanted a more "familiar" single, then re-released the album with that song tacked on as an opener. Probably because they thought it'd be fun for the opener and closer to have identical choruses.
Last edited by wight rabbit; 06-23-2020 at 10:55 AM.
Active Member
Same. I actually have gotten used to the song.
Active Member
Call me crazy but I don't see much difference between Back to School and Headup, stylistically speaking.
BADGERS
I actually also agree with this but I'm not super crazy about head up. Maybe I'm alone there. Actually, I'm not super crazy about white pony as a whole, and I spend more time listening to the albums after white pony than the one before s/t. I almost never listen to White Pony or Adrenaline. I probably even listen to Like Linus more than both of them combined.
Only By Night
I have always been in the minority of not really seeing the big hub bub about White Pony. I usually jump around between some tracks and then just wish I was listening to other albums. For me, the lyrics and style feel a bit dated, but I know to a lot it still holds up. I rarely listen to Around the Fur anymore since me and my friends played the hell out of it when we were younger, with Adrenaline's production ruining my listening experience with it. I even gave White Pony another full listen from beginning to end and it never works out.
Head Up is too long and would have served better as like a 2 1/2 minute track. Back to School does have the same style, I'll agree, but it's much worse on the Deftones scale for me.
Banned
Of their 8 albums, White Pony is like my 6th favorite.....Its a solid LP and it took balls to do what they did at the time. At the height of rap metal when everyone was sucking off Korn and Limp Bizkit and awaiting the new Deftones album thinking it would be an album full of 'Head Ups' and 'Engine No 9s", and instead they drop this tripped out LP that is much more experimental.....But in the grand scheme of things, I think Saturday Night Wrist is a FAR superior album. It took everything they did on WP and multiplied it. I also think the self titled album is better because it was much more raw and aggressive....My issue with WP is it brought in a lot of casual fans who just wanted to hear Chino croon over 'Digital Bath' and 'Change'.....Which is why 2003 S/T is so brilliant because it throws down 'Hexagram' and 'When Girls Telephone Boys' and chased the casual fans away
With that said. 'Elite' and 'Korea' and 'RX Queen' are still dope af
Last edited by Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell); 06-23-2020 at 12:28 PM.
Active Member
I appreciate what they are doing with the White Pony anniversary but it's not their strongest effort imo. RX Queen, Street Carp, Knife Party (the screaming woman part is amazing, though) are not that strong. They are not bad, but they are not as strong as the rest of the album. That's what kills it for me, the mid section of the album is a bit weak. Koi No Yokan or Diamond Eyes, on the other hand...
Stubby Member
I've always felt that Around the Fur is their best album, or at least my favorite.
If only because it's a hybrid of the earlier nu-metal tendencies and the more atmospheric sound they'd continue to develop after.
And it's the only album that really just flows, song to song, start to finish. There's not a single song I don't enjoy of the 10 and the bonus track is great too.
And I love all their albums (except Gore), they were maybe my favorite band growing up, so it's not a case of the ridiculous "i prefer their early work before anyone knew who they were" mentality.
Last edited by AndItKeepsRepeating; 06-23-2020 at 12:53 PM.
Active Member
I strongly dislike the artwork for Around The Fur. It makes me feel so uncomfortable. Knowing the story behind it makes me dislike it even more.
That photo is the only reason I don't own the album physically.
she/her/hers
never been a big fan of "headup" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ i actually think "back to school" is a better song haha
interesting that those are three of my favorite songs on the album heh
also, the first time i heard that bridge with her vocals, i honestly thought it was jeff buckley (until i realized he had died long before the album was recorded).
i've never liked the artwork either but i'm unfamiliar with the story. can you shoot me a link?
Head like a head
You can go buy the album now because it was all bullshit: https://metalinjection.net/around-th...20-years-later
Active Member
Sure.
From Revolvermag.
The photographer was Rick Kosick, who went on to become part of Jackass (while makes sense given its puerile nature).
Chino commented on the artwork in a 2016 issue of Kerrang!Upon his arrival, Kosick spent some time shooting the band in the studio and eventually brought his camera to one of their late-night soirees. "They were having this after-hours party with all these chicks hanging out in the Jacuzzi," he explains. "I just happened to take a photo of a girl at, like, 4 o'clock in the morning. I don't even know who she is—she was just a groupie, I think. I just saw her big tits and was like, Damn, I gotta photograph this."
As Kosick remembers it, his subject wasn't too pleased at the time. "She was offended because I was in her personal space," says the lensman... "She made some comment about being too close to her boobs. So I took the photo, walked away, and never spoke to her again. I know they found her and got her to sign a release, though."
That cover is horrible. At the time, we all lived in an apartment complex and were partying every night. We were at the hot tub [one time[ and this was just a random shot [that] somehow we picked as the cover. On the back cover, there’s a picture of the girl from the waist down. In the original, Frank‘s in the hot tub next to her, so we Photoshopped him out of it. We were all married at the time, so how do we explain to our wives we’re in a hot tub with these chicks?
Stubby Member
Saturday Night Wrist is probably my favorite album though a lot of the band members don't feel that strongly about it. I'm guessing it was more because of the personal history within the band during that era. Can't blame them for not feeling enthusiasm about a traumatic period. You can tell there is a different energy internally on their albums after that, especially considering Chi Cheng's passing. I mean that in a positive way.
Banned
Around The Fur might be the best Deftones album. And the best tour. Chino's voice was incredible during that era and this was a couple years before the drugs and booze started interfering with live shows........I always felt Diamond Eyes was the spiritual successor to Around The Fur
If you haven't seen it, do yourself a favor and watch their ENTIRE 1998 Bizarre Festival performance. In the pouring rain, opening for The Cure. Probably the definitive live document of the Deftones
Head like a head
Here’s another link since you didn’t read the other one: https://pousta.com/chick-around-the-fur/
Her Facebook page links to the above and has the ATF cover as the default pic: https://www.facebook.com/LisaMHughesModel/
Last edited by tricil; 06-23-2020 at 05:01 PM. Reason: Damn BBCode
Stubby Member
There are moments when I think Gore might have been their best album if it just had the same... bite, for lack of a better word, sonically as the rest of their albums.
If it just had more bottom end, more dynamic range, more feeling in the mix.
if the actual recording of the music captured the same elements in the arrangements it’s clearly aiming for thematically it could’ve been a masterpiece
Every time I give it a spin I feel like I’m listening to the demos of an album I’m still waiting for
Last edited by AndItKeepsRepeating; 06-24-2020 at 12:37 AM.
Active Member
I read that article. It does nothing to disprove the aforementioned pieces of information.
Here's what we know:
Rick Kosick exploited a fan for her body. Not caring about who she may be or how she may feel.
She was apparently not all that happy about having a camera pointed at her cleavage.
Regardless, she did consent to the photo when tracked down.
In the article you posted, she states that she consented to the photo being used, confirming this.
However, she doesn't say how she felt at the time, and doesn't specifically speak against the statement made by Rick Kosick where she commented that he was "in her personal space" and "too close to her boobs".
What I see in Lisa Hughes: a super-fan who liked them enough to be a groupie. She was in a position where she could have her likeness depicted on her favourite band's next album. That's a dream situation. Why would she say no? The bonus is that the LP in question is for many one of Deftones' best albums. She also seems to be enjoying the fact that this photo has made her something of a minor celebrity. Given this, she would be heavily biased for the band and likely won't say anything bad against them. Therefore, I'm not especially inclined to believe what she says. Even so, her statement still stands, as vague as it is. She's obviously proud of it, although that doesn't change the fact that Kosick only took the photograph because of perverted, objectifying reasons.
The previous, shorter article you posted on metalinjection (which I also read) says that the apparent discord was nothing but "rumours". However, those statements were made by the photographer himself. That's not a rumour. He may have embellished her feelings of encroached upon, but why would he make himself look bad?
I posted Chino's statement on the situation surrounding the party above. The whole thing is made so much more awkward by the fact that they (with wives and girlfriends) were disrespecting their relationships by hanging out with scantily-clad women in a jacuzzi. Kosick calls "bullshit on [Chino's] statement, even if he said it." Yes, the album probably performed better because of this image. Sex sells.
Until Chino himself says otherwise, I'm on his side here.
This is all aside from my personal opinion regarding this album cover. I think it's unnecessary, gratuitous, voyeuristic, and misogynistic. It's not the fact that it's a girl in a bikini, it's the angle of the shot, the look on her face. If they took this same girl and had her decked out in skater gear doing an Ollie, it'd be great. That's the sort of image Chino probably wanted when he hired a guy from a skateboarding magazine.
I may eventually buy the album for completion's sake, but right now, I do not want that image on my shelf.
Last edited by katara; 06-24-2020 at 04:32 AM.
BADGERS
Yeah, that cover sucks, I like it better when it's exotic birds
Head like a head
Fair enough. I could see them reissuing the album with a black cover and old school logo like the b-sides compilation they did.
I just wish they’d break out Damone from MX instead of making us buy 30 minutes of silence. Bonus tracks are so awkward in the digital era.
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