Throbbing Member
If that was directed at me, let me be clear and say that I don't know shit about whether MJK or TR did or didn't rape anyone. I am only saying there is no proof and yet here we are discussing this shit thanks to rumors. And I fucking loathe Donald Trump with all my soul and additionally think the GOP has become a propaganda shitshow. But that is besides the point and topic.Originally Posted by aggroculture
Active Member
I think basically some people are on the "assume positive intent/innocent until proven guilty" train of thought, and some of us are on "prepare for the worst and hope for the best" train of thought. I don't think anyone here wants Maynard to be guilty of rape. But, it is believable, and there are ways to hope someone didn't rape someone that doesn't involve victim blaming or other questionable behavior (like the essayist upthread who was basically going "stop being mean to men"). I think there's been productive conversation between folks who have differing views with some of this.
Active Member
what "proof" are you ever going to see? There's never going to be any "proof" - it was two people in a room.
in the meantime Maynard's response sucks, it utterly sucks
IMHO if he was innocent he would have responded very differently.
Let's see what Metalsucks has.
Active Member
yeah well apparently literally the only people who the anon twitter user will communicate with are the guys at Metal Sucks , hmm not exactly the people who broke the Cambridge analytica story
Throbbing Member
You are correct on "proof". I should say at least a report with circumstantial evidence or a report with some journalistic research behind it, beyond the absence of any police report of an actual incident. Everything tied around the implications of rape at this moment is essentially hearsay and rumor. But sure, let's see what the Metalsucks article has to say.
i'm too thin
It did seem like a not insignificant number of people were rushing to be the first to say, "I always thought he was a creep, I was already planning on throwing my records away!" instantly.
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Wanting someone to be guilty of something heinous like rape and not being surprised by allegations are two entirely different things.
i'm too thin
Sure, I guess I shouldn't imply that some people legitimately want the accused to be guilty in this case. But when there's so very little information or the accused hasn't even said a word yet, it starts to just seem gratuitous. Offering support to a potential victim with nothing more than an anonymous story and publicly vilifying somebody are not two mutually exclusive options. I don't think many people fault folks for not immediately disregarding a story like this, but that doesn't mean they have to also begin an unfettered hate-train against that person post haste.
That's the root of a lot of the issues in this area I think. People sort of view everything through a pretty binary filter but that's not how these things work in reality. I'm able to fully open myself up to the idea that a musician who has created things that've affected me in a profound way might be a scumbag while also remaining cautiously optimistic that this might not be true and this person's career might not be over or I'll have to wrestle with a certain level of guilt to enjoy that art depending on the crime, while also not harassing this potential victim or say they're lying or disbelieve them out of muscle memory or start my own personal little Twitter private investigation firm. So I feel like others can comfort the victim or other potential victims while also not jumping off to actively destroy somebody quite so immediately when it's more than possible they might come to regret saying some loud and horrible thing about what turns out to be an innocent person. And there are the others who should take a good, hard look inside to think about why they're so vehemently and reflexively defending a public personality they happen to enjoy as if this person were their close blood relative. Lots of the best art in history has been made by terrible people. You're not a lesser person for liking art made by somebody later found out to be whatever level of 'bad.' This artist's personal life doesn't make up any piece of who you are, no matter how much that feels true sometimes. You've got to realize that the possibility of something being true does not correlate to how much you want or don't want it to be true.
I dunno, I'm sorta thinking out loud here. I don't have the answer because it's a very delicate, serious problem with a lot of moving parts and real deep dives into interpersonal social constructs and personal emotional health and professional and economic standing and the list goes on and on. But so many people just immediately hear the quick footnotes of a situation and think they've determined the 'right' answer and all other answers are 'wrong' and they'll fight to the death in favor of the clear, objective truth they've reached. So all I know is that THAT shit is not gonna work out in success for anybody.
24.24.2.2866
Like bot behaviour or something, stuff the script kiddies do?
Banned
“Prepare for the worst and hope for the best” and “innocent until proven guilty” are not mutually exclusive.
Anyone here, or an angry/fucked-up-in-the-head ex could go to twitter (or even worse, go to your workplace) and falsely claim you raped/sexually assaulted her/him 10 years ago, without any proof, just her/his words against yours. That could get you fired, or at the very least destroy the perception your friends/acquaintances/co-workers have of you. In your case (or anyone who isn’t famous), the solution might be “easy” (but still a pain in the ass (switch jobs, for example, which would still be unfair). In the case of someone famous, they’re fucked, their reputation and ability to make a living would take such a strong hit that it would be hard to shake off those claims even if proven innocent in court.
Take the case of Steven Galloway... his life got destroyed, his ability to make a living is pretty much gone, he’s sunk deep into depression and is living through hell because of this.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/arts...er-ubc-payout/
There is a reason there is this thing called due process.
Active Member
I mean, if we can't trust the guys who posted this article to give us the hard-hitting facts, who can we trust?
Active Member
To be fair, the opposite is just as true. None of us KNOWS. You could just as easily say:
These attackers of Maynard remind me of Republicans who KNOW that Obama was born in Kenya and his birth certificate is a forgery.
How the fuck do you know? Were you in the room? No. Exactly.
Active Member
Just seen another allegation on Twitter against MJK from not a new account
Active Member
So... from the same account as the previous accusation? Or another new account?
Alt-Left Leaning Cunt
https://twitter.com/davelevora/statu...16002498740224
This story centers around Twiggy raping a child. But it also highlights the other band members being complicit.
Last edited by Sarah K; 06-29-2018 at 07:24 PM.
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For better or worse Maynard doesn’t do himself any favors in the court of public opinion when he acts the way he does. He treats people like shit. Unless you’re in his circle of people you’re only worth acknowledging when he has something to sell you, be it a bottle of wine, book, or various musical project (seemingly in that order). Even then, people in general are treated with contempt. It’s grating and because of it i’m far less inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. Carrying himself that way is well within his rights and having no time for that shit is well within mine.
Now with that said and to be very clear: I’m not at all suggesting that being an asshole gives ANYONE license to fabricate allegations, especially allegations as strong as rape. But don’t be shocked when some people don’t immediately go to bat for you.
Throbbing Member
I didn't put much thought into the choice of words. I mean, should she seek legal action or not?
Honestly, I think the more pressure is put on abusers, the better.
Active Member
There is certifiable proof beyond doubt that Obama was born in Hawaii. The jury is still out with Trump and Russian collusion (to say nothing about obstruction).
Active Member
An established twitter account
Active Member
That part wasn't really the point. Besides, there are a TON of people in the world who BELIEVE that he wasn't born here (in the US).
i'm too thin
I have a pretty tough time imagining that wasn't a joke. At least, I should say, I have a very rough time imagining Billy, James, and Josh just sweeping under the rug some nonsense like that. Everyone in APC back then had their sarcasm levels turned up to 'Maynard' I feel like this one should be taken with a huge grain of salt.
Alt-Left Leaning Cunt
I cannot fathom any universe in which any fully grown adult human would think it is acceptable to "joke" about child rape. That's quite a reach.
Active Member
Not really. Nazis are making a comeback, for fuck's sake. Some people just like to be trolls and stir the shit.
Alt-Left Leaning Cunt
So you are saying that in 2004, the members of Tool made a child rape joke in anticipation of the alt-right movement of 2018?
Active Member
If that's the case, then I would suggest not looking up how the comedy community reacted when the Catholic sex abuse scandal broke.
Active Member
...huh? I think we're talking about two separate things (assuming you were replying to me). I was under the impression that your comment was in reference to the post that indicated that the MJK & TR accusations, which were both created within the same hour and linked to the same email, were a "hoax" created by some asshole troll who likely did it as some sort of sick & twisted "joke." If you were talking about the tweet about the radio station PD driving Billy and James around and suggesting that Jeordie had some kind of inappropriate "incident" with an underage boy, then ignore my previous post.
i'm too thin
I don't know if it's particularly relevant to bring up the morality and 'acceptable' boundaries of comedy because the question at hand isn't whether you think jokes like that are okay but whether you can believe that a bunch of jaded rock stars - particularly known for their cynical, sarcastic, and 100% deadpan personalities (especially when interacting with journalists/DJs) - could make that joke. It doesn't seem remotely outside the realm of possibility for me, having seen my fair share of those dudes being huge assholes in all sorts of interviews.
Also why would they just tell this stranger something like that if they weren't fucking with him or trying to make him squirm? Especially Billy - APC is his band as much as it is MJK's. I seriously can't see him potentially destroying his own multi-platinum album selling band by covering up Jeordie raping a young boy and then mentioning it to more or less their driver the next day. Jeordie was a touring guy in APC for a bit, he was not remotely essential and especially not essential to the point that protecting him would be priority #1 in that situation.
I'm still waiting to see where the MJK thing goes and can't write it off as a scam when MetalSucks is promising some serious expose piece, and I believed Jessicka from day 1 about Jeordie because it fits his M.O. as a self-described shitbag, but I do think this DJ story is way more likely to be a poorly executed off-color joke than an admission of a band-wide sexual abuse cover-up.
Throbbing Member
Looking into the email address was interesting. If this person was willing to create a fake twitter account, why wouldn’t they create a fake email too?
But then again, why even bother dropping an email address if it’s all a troll’s job? The damage is done, why provide any evidence or trails that it’s fake?
Throbbing Member
I’m confused about my legal terms here, as I imagine age of consent in my country differs from yours. But let me ask:
Is a 17 year old a child? Or just underage? What’s the age of consent out there, 16?
Throbbing Member
Depends on each state: In California you are guilty of statutory rape if the victim is under the age of 18. Basically, the law states that one is incapable of giving consent until the age of 18, therefore, any sexual act with an adult is considered non-consensual/rape. Sexual assault is an entirely different issue.
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