his whole whole life has been one big lie scam
-Louie
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his whole whole life has been one big lie scam
-Louie
Active Member
This is what scares me: he's clueless. He clearly speaks the way a gawky teenager who didn't do the assigned reading speaks when he / she is trying to bullshit their way through a book report. I genuinely believe that he is not competent enough to hold this office - regardless of whether you agree with his ideologies or not. He's clueless. He's struggling day to day to figure out just enough of what's going on to survive another 24 hours. This isn't funny. This is frightening.
"If China is not going to solve North Korea, we will. That is all I am telling you," he said in an interview with UK paper Financial Times.Pressed on whether he thought he could succeed alone, he replied: "Totally."
-----
Asked if he meant "one-on-one" unilateral action, Mr Tiny Hands said: "I don't have to say any more. Totally."
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39475178
tempus est umbra in mente
Oh man........Originally Posted by theimage13
One of the most dangerous things about Trump is his lack of tact, but this is crazy. As if his idiotic tweets weren't terrifying evidence enough, we're dealing with someone who doesn't understand that he is no longer a private citizen.
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He is playing his presidency like his marketed himself and his stuff all his life: sound bites that take you through a commercial break. "Up next, nuclear war....after the break....totally"
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considering he gets his marching orders from fox and brietbart you should be afraid... very afraid
-Louie
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people forget he is the oldest president to take office
-Louie
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Pence would probably be more efficient at getting his goals achieved but would also be a lot easier to defeat and would have far less of a cult of personality built around defending him. There is no "good" option here. We're stuck with this lunatic or we're stuck with a classically terrible conservative. Bare minimum I think a lot of people's blood pressure would be lower if it were Pence and that's enough for many to feel he'd be a better alternative -- things would be shit, but day to day life wouldn't feel so blisteringly and anxiously apocalyptic and overwhelming.
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so what's the excuse for not releasing his 2016 taxes impossible to be under audit
-Louie
Stubby Member
Because he has so much incriminating evidence to hide.
tempus est umbra in mente
This needs to keep being addressed... like "if you want this to end, this whole Russia thing, just show us your fucking tax returns... just show them. You've said you have nothing to hide, well, show us..."
He won't though, because even if this whole Russia thing is a bullshit red herring (unlikely), there's something in there he doesn't want us to see.
I was nobody. Nothing.
I really can't believe that a POTUS has been accused of colluding with Russia. I don't understand how we got here.
As I've said before, I've pretty much been covering my eyes and ears since last November and am only now starting to take tentative peeks at the news. From where I'm sitting, this shit already looks about 100 times as bad as Watergate. I mean, holy shit, am I missing something?
So how are Trump supporters spinning this? Are they calling it a liberal conspiracy?
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Some of them are, like you, covering their eyes and ears and pretending that none of this has even happened.
Many of them are, as you said, calling it a liberal conspiracy
Some of them are just pretending that people opposed to him are simply sore losers ("the libtard snowflake fags are just sad that Obummer left them")
Some of them have actually claimed regretting their vote, but still insist that "Hilary remains the worst candidate and Johnson wasn't even a real contender")
In other words...most of them - the ones who have actually spoken up in support of Trump to this day - are kind of idiots.
I think the ones who genuinely regret it and realize they've made a massive mistake are keeping quiet, for fear of being mercilessly ridiculed, and they're not wrong to feel that way. I've seen very few rational threads of people saying "I'm glad you've realized how bad this is, now here's how you can help" and far more "NO SHIT FUCKHEAD WHAT DID YOU THINK WAS GONNA HAPPEN NO SYMPATHY MORON". If we want people who have turned on their Trump support to be vocal about it, we need to stop shitting on them and offering them respectful dialog and productive ideas.
tempus est umbra in mente
yeah, sure. Though right now, even the Trump-voter relatives I have who have confessed to regretting their vote aren't willing to admit that this is SUPER fucked up. It's always "it will work out fine in the end... and then maybe we'll get a sensible conservative in the Oval Office." They don't get it yet. It's hard to respond to that with "I'm glad you've realized you voted for the fucking worst president of all time, but let's be sensible now with you talking about just voting down the party-line again in the future" without screaming until your eyes bleed.
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his supporters will continue to defend him and think he's great it's great and politics the latest "reality show" I think the Russian's knew this and did not try and not try to hide there attempts, the "intelligence" has said repeatedly the attack was "noisy" i think the was two fold one once to show to show they have a deep understanding of American culture and habits such getting news from twitter and face-book, and attacking" western western "concepts" such as "free press" and "democracy" pushing existing divisions and maybe even pushing */gulp/* towards civil war just because Putin didn't pound his shoe in the middle of a U.N. meeting and scream"We will bury you", doesn't mean that sentiment isn't there a lot of this old time KGB CIA and military types long for the good ole days of a overt cold war just my observations
-Louie
Last edited by Louie_Cypher; 04-04-2017 at 10:37 AM. Reason: spelling and stuff
Bite me
Trump's Tweets are quoting and recommending Fox & Friends and the "story" about Podesta and alleged ties to Russia.
And he's backed up by Newt Gingrich claiming that "All 'Real Evidence' of Russian Influence Points to Democrats."
And they are believing right-wing news reports indicating that Nunes' "Report Vindicates Trump Claims on Surveillance."
So, no, there is no reason for Trump supporters to believe that Trump or his team have done anything wrong, because they're not watching or reading the same reports and news as you.
tempus est umbra in mente
I got into a back and forth with a Trump supporter on Twitter who was trying to claim that about the Nunes thing. I posted a couple links to stories that broke it down further, with relation to criticism of Nunes' decision to go public before consulting the committee, and with regards to the dubious intent of the potential source of his info, and my links were deleted and I was blocked.
I think they're aware of the counter point... they just plug their ears when it's presented. They're aware of it, they just don't want to hear it, because all they want is confirmation bias. Many on the left are guilty of the same thing, but not on anywhere near the same scale.
Bite me
They are "aware" of counterpoints but, for them, it's all just more of the same "conspiracy" that ignores how there is a "witch hunt" that is attempting to hurt Trump.
In other words, turn it around to Clinton and a private email server and Russians hacking her emails, and back then those same people said "Clinton is a liar, she is hiding something, where are her (private) deleted emails? She should not have been allowed to do that" and if we said "but, she wasn't found guilty of anything" they would say "because the FBI and the White House colluded to protect her but she's still guilty" etc. They always have a counterpoint that (in their minds) completely justifies their stance.
Just like we do. Except we always think we're on the side of logic; but so do they.
It's a winless argument.
Their "counterpoint" makes zero sense to us, and our "counterpoint" makes zero sense to them. And it's useless attempting to convince them, just like it's useless for them to try to convince us.
And each side thinks they're totally right.
tempus est umbra in mente
Yep, confirmation bias is a hell of a drug, but I actually did look at the claims regarding the "bombshell scandal" contained in the leaked Clinton emails... and I found pretty much nothing that would concern me beyond what I would consider political maneuvering in general. I looked into the claims regarding pay-to-play scandals, I read stories from both sides of the aisle. When Breitbart or Fox drag up a huge scandal, I'll get the summary, look at what the sources are, and then research the claim.
There are liberals who exclusively get their news from OccupyDemocrats and, when they're feeling like branching out a bit, Huffington Post. Those people also won't do too well in a debate... but I see a fundamental difference. When I see someone spouting a bullshit talking point like "Trump plagiarized his inauguration speech from Avatar!" they get corrected by people on the same side of the political aisle. These outlandish claims generally get addressed and shot down.
Meanwhile, there's still people out there claiming that #Pizzagate bullshit is legit.
Bite me
These are not intelligent and thought-out debates. Real debate is researched, unbiased, and balanced, conducted by intelligent people.
No intelligent person buys into any ridiculous conspiracy theory or any theory or idea that isn't based on at least some evidence or logic, discounting "internet" evidence.
Nobody conversing on the Internet is ever really "corrected," nor do many of them WANT to be.
We pretty much arrive with our minds made up. We don't suddenly turn from liberal to conservative. We may learn some things along the way but the basic person and opinions are deep-seated.
These #pizzagate believers really believe that there are exploited children out there who aren't being protected, and they believe that somehow law enforcement, the FBI, everybody overlooks this stuff openly occurring in a Washington DC pizza restaurant, and while it contains zero logic and no evidence beyond made-up "code words" in Podesta emails, that's enough for them to convince themselves and others like them that the problem is SO insidious it is a huge secret and coverup that will never be called out unless THEY rescue the sex-trafficked kids. They alone "know" and everybody else is "uninformed" or are co-conspirators.
And most of us, here, tend to believe the evidence presented, so far, that the Russians did attempt to influence our election, and have done or are doing so in other countries, and we can point to the opinions of intel agencies as "evidence." But, the Trump supporters and #pizzagate people believe that the intel agencies are a part of a "shadow government" consisting of Obama, Clinton, Jarrett, Podesta, etc. who are controlling not only intel agencies and investigations but also our armed forces.
Yeah, it's that nuts.
And, they have their own "science" that they insist is better and more logical than actual science.
For instance, re Climate Change: G has a cousin in Texas who asserted, recently, on FaceBook, that the rising of sea levels is due to more ships in the oceans and it's like putting ice cubes in a glass and the water rises in a glass due to water displacement, so rising sea levels are really evidence of water displacement due to more ships in the ocean. And if you try to argue the "real" reason, per scientists, he will argue that scientists only assert their argument of "climate change" in order to get lots of grant money for studies.
And you should just give up, at that point, because the only thing he hears is: "liberals are crazy conspiracy-theorists who run around the internet trying to make a big deal over nothing."
And nobody is ever going to change his (stupid) ideas.
We live in a world where Shaq recently joked that the Earth is FLAT because he drove from Florida to California and he never went uphill, and there are a ton of people out there who believed that he represents a bunch of really stupid flat-Earth people. We're so polarized, now, and there are so many genuinely stupid people out there, we don't even know when a joke is a joke.
Last edited by allegro; 04-04-2017 at 06:38 PM.
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again i believe the Russians knew this in terms of American culture political divisions were and how we received our news the fact that Trump was a huge twitter user or would view or have major right wing media players in his cabinet, as the beasty boy's once said, put a "quarter in our ass because, we just might have just played ourselves" food for thought,
-Louie
Bite me
A lot of Trump supporters are not all that intelligent, and I don't mean that in a derogatory "us vs. them" way; I mean it as fact. They're fucking stupid. And gullible.
The vast majority of voters cast their votes based on emotions, and this seems to be especially true with Trump voters who want "change."
But it tends to take a long time for real change to happen, especially if that change involves long-held emotions.
Personally, I don't try "educating" people or changing their minds. I have many better things to do with my time. I don't pontificate; I realize that we're all different, and stupid is stupid.
I don't care if Trump voters "finally come to realize" anything. That makes zero difference, other than those who love saying "I told you so" and those people tend to be assholes, in my opinion.
The only time my own opinion of something has changed has been with (a) age, (b) circumstances, (c) education and research, (d) modern developments. I have rarely, if ever, had my opinion change based on online discussion and I've been online longer than probably anybody here. And I question the importance of an opinion that was changed via online discussion.
This country is totally polarized between "us vs. them." We have a shitload of underlying, institutionalized racism and sexism and economic disparity and religious fervor. We can't hope to change that anytime soon until we have a more educated populace.
My husband gets into Face Book arguments with these "other" people and it works him up so much, I swear it elevates his blood pressure to stroke levels and then he brings that shit HOME. I will no longer discuss this shit at home, even though G and I AGREE on pretty much everything. He vents and rants and sometimes sounds just as crazy as the people on the other side. And, sorry, but fucking NOTHING is gonna effect change in my kitchen while I'm trying to make DINNER.
I have deliberately separated my self from ANYBODY "Trump" in my life; I like my little echo-chamber of a life, surrounded only by friends and family who (a) think like me or (b) never discuss politics. I just don't need that shit shortening my life.
Last edited by allegro; 04-04-2017 at 07:35 PM.
Active Member
i hear you i know why it's interesting to me, but i can't understand why i can't look away i remember when i was really little asking my parents what was going on with the Water in DC did their faucets not work? I remember my dad laughing and it did have something to do with "plumbers" but it was adult stuff and he would explain when i had a better understanding of things thank god there were no Mario bros or I really would have been confused any ways there's something much deeper going on behind the scenes the timing and content of trumps tweets the timeline is off confusing and how things are connected like rice Flynn and Devon way out of trumps league maybe the best thing to do go on a media fast, i did that once during the OJ Simpson trial I was very into cyberpunk at the time and not hearing the soothing sounds of my 2600 baud modem connecting to the Well was tough but probably kept me sane a few days longer good luck and goodnight
-Louie
Bite me
Hahaha you were on the Well? I was using Pico back then on a Hayes 1200 bd modem via PC Pursuit!
Anyway, I'm not on a "news fast," myself. I watch selective stuff; I like the ladies on The View, I love Chuck Todd, I like Chris Matthews and Hardball, etc. And I read the Chicago Tribune every day and watch the local news.
I just don't want to DISCUSS it. It gets too heated, forget it.
I worked in a LAW OFFICE during OJ Simpson, which was particularly fun. We all gathered around a small TV in my boss's office to watch the verdict come down.
Last edited by allegro; 04-04-2017 at 11:10 PM.
Active Member
simpler days i suppose things seamed so fresh and new like we were on the cusp of a new revolution learned most of my Unix scripting chops back then the underground scene seemed alive and vibrant, you weren't bombarded with adverts every waking moment, you felt special because you knew something every else didn't like burning man or raves even NIN or skinny puppy and the like, now I'm just waxing nostalgic *sigh*, I tend to try to take in a variety msnbc, but also fox, til it makes me crazy enemies close an all that be well rounded and well informed
-Louie
Active Member
On a personal note, every time I read about Trump, and what's happening in the states, I can't help but be reminded of what it was like living with my ex.
It took me years to realize the reality of what was happening, if she was upset about something, she'd say something that had no basis in reality, not because she believed it, but because she wanted to exhaust me. She'd know it was bullshit, but she'd argue it non-stop and not even let me sleep if I didn't agree with something that was obviously false, so that I'd argue back, and as soon as I was exhausted from arguing over the bullshit she had just fabricated she would scream that "YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO BE RIGHT" and try to demonize me for arguing, and for being unwilling to compromise.
Trump tells lies, which results in the media calling him out as a liar, so that he can point to their criticisms of him and say "look, they're not being fair to me, I'm not really as bad as they say I am". And he gets so much negative press that his supporters start to feel sorry for him, and believe that he's being picked on by the media, and feeds the "underdog outsider" mentality that his supports eat up.
I got it to stop, by moving out of the house, and minimizing my interactions with her. But if you're the media, and he's the president, do you have that option? You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. If you let his lies go, "alternative facts" win the day, and the media becomes irrelevant. If you call him out on his lies, you're making his supporters buy into this "underdog outsider" mentality more and more.
For years the republican party has walked a fine line, publicly pretending to be on the side of the "hard-working, average american", while still slashing anything that doesn't help the rich. Now they've got a president who has dropped the facade and gone into hyper mode making the country worse for everyone but the rich. I hate to say it, but maybe this is what the country really needed.
The republicans have always made things worse, but they've never done it to the degree that Trump is doing it, and so they were able to maintain the facade. Trump may be bad enough to break the illusion. Sometimes things have to get worse before they can really get better. Maybe the media should let his lies run rampant, let the country descend worse than it already is, so that people can see that it's not the criticisms of Trump that's the problem, it's the Trump that's the problem.
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Stubby Member
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b0d0b7e1660ba4
Louis CK's comments on Trump last night on Stephen Colbert, he calls Donald Trump a "gross crook dirty rotten lying sack of shit".
Last edited by Art Vandelay; 04-05-2017 at 01:00 PM.
Active Member
Bannon gone i bet they will find ties to Russia
-Louie
tempus est umbra in mente
Regardless of the reasons for him being ejected, this is almost certainly a good thing. Fuck you, Steve.
Active Member
last man standing who'd guess white house the new celebrity apprentice question now is who he will throw under the bus to avoid treason charges trump's career it's already very crowded under there
-Louie
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