Likes: 
Faceplams: Trump must also think this is a "beautiful statue."
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Trump must also think this is a "beautiful statue."
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I've stated this before but bares repeating confederate statues were built during jim crow era to "intimidate" blacks why do you think they are at courthouses and the like if they would like to put the in " the racist traitors asshole museum fine we can put a statue of Trump there too
-Louie
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Not sure what you're saying here, but Leninism=not Fascism. Lenin was a Marxist and Communist revolutionary, the architect of the Russian Revolution.Originally Posted by baudolino
But I agree about Bannon: he's one step ahead of all the shocked and confused onlookers, everywhere. He's figured out that you win this game by keeping everyone guessing, as has Trump.
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Lenin wanted to be a marxist, but became a fascist. Such as Stalin(ism), which was a direct continuation of Lenin(ism). But yes, all those terms became meaningless, often through the works of people who made them up/defined them in the first place.
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Lenin never became a fascist: you're using the term wrong. Stalin was never a fascist. Nor Pol Pot. People can do stuff you think is inhumane and not be fascists. Also, Lenin lived long enough to realize he'd made a mistake empowering Stalin.
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i disagree, warm-heartedly. The similarities or differences of Leninism/Stalinism to Italian/German fascism is still an open debate imho.
I do also think that Marxists/Marxism never actually existed. Marx was a philosopher and formulated a theory of history, not an ideology.
Last edited by baudolino; 08-17-2017 at 09:54 AM.
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No one's saying those Communist regimes weren't totalitarian, but calling them "fascist" is just historically wrong. Fascists called themselves fascists: Communists called themselves communists. They shared similarities, but ideologically come from opposite ends of the spectrum.
It's important to be clear about who's who: otherwise we just go down the road of "many sides, many sides." Bannon calling himself a Leninist? Who knows, could be a red herring, could be referring to Lenin's strategic methodology and revolutionary tactics, certainly does not refer to Lenin's underlying belief system which was Marxist and Communist and internationalist, whereas Bannon is clearly a nationalist.
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I think some people use the term "fascist" rather broadly and don't understand that their was a political party known as "Fascists," founded by Mussolini.
Last edited by GulDukat; 08-17-2017 at 10:23 AM.
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Okay, agreed. I am going to focus on the differences, not similarities.
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I don't doubt that. In hindsight however Leninism/Stalinism and Fascism have become almost indistinguishable.
and i want to apologize for that distraction. doesn't help a lot.
Last edited by baudolino; 08-17-2017 at 10:41 AM.
Bite me
What is Fascism?
Robert Paxton, a professor emeritus of social science at Columbia University in New York who is widely considered the father of fascism studies, defined fascism as "a form of political practice distinctive to the 20th century that arouses popular enthusiasm by sophisticated propaganda techniques for an anti-liberal, anti-socialist, violently exclusionary, expansionist nationalist agenda."
Other definitions, Paxton said, rely too heavily on documents that Mussolini, Hitler and others produced before they came to power. Once in power, fascists did not always keep their early promises. As the American Historical Association put it, speaking of fascism in Italy, "The proclaimed aims and principles of the fascist movement are perhaps of little consequence now. It promised almost everything, from extreme radicalism in 1919 to extreme conservatism in 1922."
Lachlan Montague, a Melbourne, Australia-based writer and researcher of fascism, economic history and the interwar years, told Live Science, "Fascism is definitely revolutionary and dynamic." He said that some definitions of fascism, such as Zeev Sternhell's description of it as a "form of extreme nationalism" in "Neither Right Nor Left" (Princeton, 1995), are too broad to be useful.
Though fascism can be difficult to define, all fascist movements share some core beliefs and actions.
Paxton, author of several books, including "The Anatomy of Fascism" (Vintage, 2005), said fascism is based more on feelings than philosophical ideas. In his 1988 essay "The Five Stages of Fascism," published in 1998 in the Journal of Modern History, he defined seven feelings that act as "mobilizing passions" for fascist regimes. They are:
1. The primacy of the group. Supporting the group feels more important than maintaining either individual or universal rights.
2. Believing that one's group is a victim. This justifies any behavior against the group's enemies.
3. The belief that individualism and liberalism enable dangerous decadence and have a negative effect on the group.
4. A strong sense of community or brotherhood. This brotherhood's "unity and purity are forged by common conviction, if possible, or by exclusionary violence if necessary."
5. Individual self-esteem is tied up in the grandeur of the group. Paxton called this an "enhanced sense of identity and belonging."
6. Extreme support of a "natural" leader, who is always male. This results in one man taking on the role of national savior.
7. "The beauty of violence and of will, when they are devoted to the group's success in a Darwinian struggle," Paxton wrote. The idea of a naturally superior group or, especially in Hitler's case, biological racism, fits into a fascist interpretation of Darwinism.
Once in power, "fascist dictatorships suppressed individual liberties, imprisoned opponents, forbade strikes, authorized unlimited police power in the name of national unity and revival, and committed military aggression," Paxton wrote.The economics of fascism are complicated, Montague said. Fascist governments' purported goal was autarky, or national self-sufficiency. In the 1920s and 1930s, fascist leaders pitched this as an effective middle ground between bourgeois, profit-oriented capitalism and revolutionary Marxism that would dismantle many social institutions and persecute the bourgeoisie. The Library of Economics and Liberty defined fascism's economic practices as "socialism with a capitalist veneer." Paxton said fascism claims to eliminate the private sphere, though that does not happen in reality.
To better understand fascism's economic structure, Montague suggested looking at who benefited from it. "Hitler was heavily backed by the wealthy elite from very early on. Big business (BMW, Bayer, etc.) received slave labor, government contracts and so on," Montague said. Things were more complicated in Italy, where the poor benefitted marginally at the beginning of Mussolini's regime but suffered as his positions changed.
In Germany and Italy, fascist government cartels determined many aspects of commerce, finance, agriculture and manufacturing, and made decisions according to what would further the state's power; however, they also allowed the conservative business elite to maintain property and increase their wealth. The cartels forcibly lowered wages and paid the workers with national pride.
One element of fascism is collaboration with capitalists and the conservative elite. Fascists, even when they start out with radical ideas, always collaborate to move in the direction of protecting private property, Paxton told Live Science. This is, however, an awkward alliance, he said.
"Conservatives are basically people of order who want to use things like the church and property to maintain an existing social order, whereas fascists are revolutionists who will break up social institutions if they think it will bring national power or grandeur or expansion," he said. "In Nazi Germany, the businessmen were not enthusiastic about Hitler, because he had anti-capitalist ideas in the beginning. But then they discovered that they had a great deal in common. They made an alliance, but they often stepped on each other's toes … and on July 20, 1944, the conservatives tried to assassinate Hitler. There is always tension between the two movements."
Last edited by allegro; 08-17-2017 at 11:40 AM.
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Those seven motivators were not used by the Bolsheviki?
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Last edited by baudolino; 08-17-2017 at 12:09 PM.
Bite me
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Punching Nazi's. I feel like that may help.
What part of the diagram does that put me on?
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Hitler thought Communists were subhuman..and wanted to kill all Communists in the biggest genocide in history.
the main reason of World War (the biggest war in human history) was because hitler despised the Communist system he invaded Poland because his aim was to eventually invade Russia....
The only thing Hitler was inspired by from the Communists was their brutality, I do think Stalin influenced Hitler in that regard.
Steve Bannon called himself a Lenninist because he wants to uproot and overthrow the system that has been governing Washington the past few decades as Lenin did with the Russian monarchy.
that's about it.
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Could Trump resign to save face?
http://www.newsweek.com/trump-going-..._medium=Social
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Really really hate these print articles with videos that start up automatically. Kind of ruins the whole *reading* experience.
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You must be a millennial.
http://www.newsweek.com/do-people-read-videos-507202
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No, because in his mind, resigning would be more of a failure than four years of chaos and bullshit. He's already made a career out of exactly what he's doing now, so why would it bother him to keep at it?
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*headphones on*
Oh, this looks like an interesting story. Let's see what it says.
August 17, 2017
Charlottesville, VA
Following a weekend of
*over the headphones*
FOLLOWING A WEEKEND OF
*violently rips off headphones, ruining yet another pair*
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It's completely idiotic, especially considering the move from print to video news sites like the one MTV are doing.
tempus est umbra in mente
Wait, really? Or, are you saying "he's gonna get whacked?"
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I don't think Trump will resign. Watch the GOP ad that @Exocet linked in the previous page of this thread. In Trump's mind he's winning, he's succeeding.
Legal troubles haven't stopped him so far, he'll just plow ahead like he's always done. Hell, he may even win a second term while the USA burns.
tempus est umbra in mente
His lawyers will supply an excuse that he can accept.... like the one he used to settle the Trump University thing for 25 million, and never have to admit that there was anything fucked up there.
He'll probably end up resigning because "I was just too great of a businessman, and these witch hunts, these witch hunts, just wouldn't let my business successes alone, and it became impossible for me to lead, because I'm so successful."
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Don't know why they do that. I just put the mute on and read the article.
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Petition to censure Trump:
https://petitions.moveon.org/sign/ce...&r_by=18700342
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The latter. He's not literally dead at this time, but given Russia's history of offing those who betray them...even though the guy isn't Russian and wasn't working FOR them...if he's got info that can cause major harm to them, he's a target.
tempus est umbra in mente
I've never seen someone double down on gaffs like this... It's truly like the Mr Garrison version of Trump, where he's desperately trying to get people to not vote for him.
Again, today, on fuuuuuuucking Twitter, he proposes that tearing down a statue of Robert E Lee is a slippery slope to destroying monuments to Washington or Jefferson. "The beauty that is being taken out of our cities, towns and parks will be greatly missed and never able to be comparably replaced!"
Should we start adding a "for racists and nazis everywhere" addendum to his tweets? You stupid motherfucker, the statue of Robert Lee was erected in the 20s, some sixty years after the civil war was lost by confederate traitors. It's a tribute to the "values" of the confederacy. There's a reason you had fucking NAZIS protesting its removal!
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Nazi rally happens in America.
President takes two days to "get the facts" before vaguely condemning it (and then un-condemning it the next day).
Van hits people in Barcelona.
President is condemning Islamic terrorism within hours.
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