The Playstation Thread

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

I heard somewhere that they said eventually the PS4 will be able to stream PS3 games, not sure if there's any truth to that. But I agree, new consoles should always be backwards compatible with the previous generation. Apparently Sony/Microsoft do not agree.

Yeah, the backwards campatiblity with streaming games is great and all, but that's just going to make me pay for my current PS3 games again just to have them in digital form. In a perfect world, they'd set up a system where you could at least prove that you own Game X, and in turn get a free digital copy of that game. :P Not that many of the games I own would be too expensive anymore, but that's probably gonna end up being another $100 I'll have to spend if I decide to go digital with the games I already bought.

But it's whatever! I'm not worried about it. I'm still on the fence until I hear more, so I'll just wait and see what else we hear about it. My PS3 will be a part of my collection for a long time before I retire it, whether I get a PS4 or not.

Edit:

Games bought through the PSN are also not backwards compatible. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...ransfer-to-PS4 And Sony's stock has dropped. This is turning into a clusterfuck. I completely understand the need to make the PS4 easier to develop for. If you've played the PS3 version of The Orange Box trust me you know, but after I spent $300 on this technology you're just going to abandon it cold turkey?

V For fuck's sake. Do they want people's money or not? "It would overstretch the abilites of the PS4's processor." My ass. They know they can make it happen, but then they wouldn't make any money off people re-buying old games.

[Iran_Ed]

Games bought through the PSN are also not backwards compatible. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...ransfer-to-PS4 And Sony's stock has dropped. This is turning into a clusterfuck. I completely understand the need to make the PS4 easier to develop for. If you've played the PS3 version of The Orange Box trust me you know, but after I spent $300 on this technology you're just going to abandon it cold turkey?

[Jinsai]

wait... ok, so it won't be compatible with the games I've bought on PSN, but surely they'll take note that I bought them already and allow me to add them to my streaming library, right?

Also... I'm sorry, I just don't buy this shit about how the PS4 won't be able to run PS3 games. It's the same kind of lie they trotted out as an excuse for why they cut out the backwards compatibility for PS2 games for the PS3. "Oh, without the PS2's chip which drives up the price of the hardware, the PS3 cannot emulate the PS2 properly." And then, a little while later, you start seeing PS2 games showing up in the PSN store. In other words, bullshit.

Considering that the PS4's specs exceed the recommended system requirements for the homebrewed PS3 emulator for PC...

[Space Suicide]

Gah...it just sucks that there's no backwards compatibility with PS3 games. How hard would it possibly be to make that happen? Don't they know how many more people would buy one if they could play their (soon to be old) PS3 games?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

If you buy a PS4 and only play PS3 games they're not making any more additional money.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

^ Edit: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Doesn't make it any less ridiculous. And I wouldn't ONLY be playing PS3 games, but you know, people would probably like to play more than the handful of games that would be available at launch on a new console. We're not exactly making the jump from cartridge to disc, here. It just seems so basic for them to do it, but nope, gotta make that paper.

Ah. So the Dualshock 3 controllers won't be compatible with PS4, either. Because that would've been...such a technological stretch for the hardware.

They're really trying to force people into give them more money now, aren't they?

[Wretchedest]

I remember back in 07 the ps3 had very few reasons to own it, but my ps2 crapped ot and i bought one just for backwards compatibility.

That said my ps3 works just fine and im content to hold onto it to play the games i have. Itd be nice if tey manned up thpugh.

[Space Suicide]

^ Edit: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Doesn't make it any less ridiculous. And I wouldn't ONLY be playing PS3 games, but you know, people would probably like to play more than the handful of games that would be available at launch on a new console. We're not exactly making the jump from cartridge to disc, here. It just seems so basic for them to do it, but nope, gotta make that paper.

Ah. So the Dualshock 3 controllers won't be compatible with PS4, either. Because that would've been...such a technological stretch for the hardware.

They're really trying to force people into give them more money now, aren't they?

Pretty much. I LOVE video games and I know devs are passionate about making them but this industry is nothing but mind on the money. I find it sad really, video games and the market were never like this.

[Jinsai]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

If you buy a PS4 and only play PS3 games they're not making any more additional money.

And if I choose not to buy a PS4 because it can't play the majority of my existing library without further milking me, they're not making any more additional money from me buying their new crap or their new games.

I know you're not presenting that argument and that you're just explaining the business angle here, but I just don't get how they could possibly think this is a good business move in the long run. I bought a PS3 at launch, even though there was only ONE game out at the time that I was interested in playing. Why did I buy it? Because it offered backwards compatibility with my PS2 and PS1 games, and my PS2 was broken.

The PS3 is a sturdy machine, but it breaks after enough use. We're running into a 7 year cycle for the machine, and I'm seeing more and more of my friends having issues. If the PS4 offered people with failing blu ray drives and other issues to just upgrade to a new system that can handle all their old library, it would have significantly more appeal.

If the PS3 hadn't offered backwards compatibility at launch, I would not have bought it at launch. However, once I'd bought one, I wanted to get some new games for my system that would make use of what it was capable of. That's how you can sell a shitty game like Lair to me, but first you need to convince me to buy the goddamn system.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

Pretty much. I LOVE video games and I know devs are passionate about making them but this industry is nothing but mind on the money. I find it sad really, video games and the market were never like this.

The sad thing is, I'd almost be willing to spend another 50 bucks on the console if that was what it would take to make it backwards compatible. I WANT to put my money into the console, really. But they're making it really hard for me to really justify doing it, at least right away.

Edit: *sigh* It just hurts to read again.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/...-digital-games

In a roundtable conversation with journalists, President of Sony’s Worldwide Studios noted that PS3 games of both the retail and downloadable variety will not be compatible with PlayStation 4, at least not natively. In other words, your PS3 discs won’t work in the new console nor will the games you downloaded. This means that hits like Journey, The Unfinished Swan, Shatter and hundreds of other games available in the digital space will not be carried over to PlayStation 4 in addition to the collection of PS3 discs sitting on your shelf.


There’s a catch, though: emulation. The PlayStation 3 doesn’t read PlayStation 2 discs (at least not anymore), but it can play PS2 games via the PlayStation Store in an emulated environment. Yoshida concedes that this is possible for PlayStation 4 supporting legacy PlayStation consoles as well. Indeed, the Gaikai presentation during PlayStation 4’s reveal touched on this “everything, everywhere” mentality. But for now, downloaded PS3 games won’t work “unless, somehow, some games work on emulation. And the easiest thing, technically, would be to make PSone games work on PS4 with emulation. But we’re not talking about our emulation plans as yet.”


In short, “There are two ways [to play legacy content]: emulation or cloud services [from Gaikai]. But native support [of digital games from PS3], no, sorry. It doesn’t work.”

[Jinsai]

The sad thing is, I'd almost be willing to spend another 50 bucks on the console if that was what it would take to make it backwards compatible. I WANT to put my money into the console, really. But they're making it really hard for me to really justify doing it, at least right away.

If it meant I could import my entire library on my current PS3's HD and also play all PS3 (and PS2 and PS1) disc based games, especially if they unlocked region restrictions for PS1 and 2 games, I would eagerly pay twice that for a "special version" of the system.

[Emil Dorbell]

What's with all this whining? Just keep your damn ps3 if playing old games is so important to you. They wouldn't just make this stuff up, Sony has nothing to gain from not offering backwards compatibility, so it's clearly because of the change in architecture. They even found a workaround through Gaikai. Jesus fucking christ...

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

What's with all this whining? Just keep your damn ps3 if playing old games is so important to you. They wouldn't just make this stuff up, Sony has nothing to gain from not offering backwards compatibility, so it's clearly because of the change in architecture. They even found a workaround through Gaikai. Jesus fucking christ...

They have plenty to gain by not allowing people who have purchased digital items from their store to use them on their new consoles. I'm keeping my PS3 already, I even said that...like, twice. This isn't about me "loving my old games so important to me," it's the fact that they're presenting new technology that's somehow "incompatible" with the old tech, despite telling us that already when the PS3 (mostly) wasn't backwards compatible, then they went ahead and said "surprise, you can play your old PS2 games, but you have to buy them from us again." It's gonna happen again with the PS4, and that kind of sucks.

Sony just has a bit of history with making things a big pain everybody for no other reason than to make things better later, in the same way they slim down their consoles over and over again for...basically, no other reason than money.

Hey, Sony, instead of focusing on how to make the PS3 2 inches shorter, you could have poured that effort into building a system that better pleases your customers. The PS4 sounds great, but it also sounds like it does have its faults, which I guarantee will be taken care of after sales start to dip after launch.

[Jinsai]

What's with all this whining? Just keep your damn ps3 if playing old games is so important to you. They wouldn't just make this stuff up, Sony has nothing to gain from not offering backwards compatibility, so it's clearly because of the change in architecture. They even found a workaround through Gaikai. Jesus fucking christ...

Because it's an incredibly stupid business move on their behalf, so I'm criticizing it. They didn't pull out the streaming option as a workaround, gaikai is there to make a profit.

Also, as Alrea said, they do just make this shit up, just like they did with the "PS3 can't run the PS2 games" bullshit.

And yeah, I will be keeping my PS3. I just won't be updating to PS4 until there's a good library. It took at least a year for the Ps3 to get off the ground, and maybe Sony should be taking that into consideration when they're trying to build their early adopter base. I updated to the PS3 and the PS Vita as soon as they went on the market because they offered backwards compatibility.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

Heh. They should call it the P$4.

[Wretchedest]

This is the best tweet maybe ever:
PS4 is all about everything being interconnected - amusing that the best game for it is so far is all about how that can be insidious.

[Madmya]

This is the best tweet maybe ever:
PS4 is all about everything being interconnected - amusing that the best game for it is so far is all about how that can be insidious.

Hilarious! The intro to Infamous was embarrassing. So many cameras, watching you everywhere, yet the PS4 adds one in your living room!

Also I don't think the PS4 not being able to play PS3 games is bullshit. PS2 games could be patched before being put on the PSN store to make them playable on PS3. That's really how they got Xbox games going up on 360, they had to do each one individually and release as a patch. Eventually they stopped though, so some games work and some games don't.

It really is shit that people who physically own PS3 games won't be able to play them on PS4. It's good for someone like me who doesn't own a PS3, but a kick in the balls for everyone else. The 720 SHOULDN'T have a problem being backwards compatible with 360 games, since it's essentially a PC upgrade. If I can't import across everything I've bought from XBLA I'm done. I might head to PC.

[Piko]

As much shit as I give them for lack of backwards compatibility, I still own a PS2 and PS3. Just wish I didn't have to hook up the older system when I feel like playing a game. Granted, most of the old ones have been ported. Some serious BS that the PSN purchases don't carry over though. That one is just astonishingly absurd. I put in X amount of dollars for the digital stuff (PS1 classics, etc.), i'd like that to at least carry over, streaming or not. That's a kick in the pants.

[Iran_Ed]

I love how this thread went from excitement to sheer rage in no time. One of the main reasons I'm considering the PS3 to be my last console is because gamers seem to just allow these companies to just walk all over them.
Console makers and big time publishers piss all over their customers and people keep sending money their way. No backwards compatibility, on disc DLC, always connected DRM and so on. People will bitch about it for awhile
and when the game comes out swallow their complaints and throw their money. Unfortunately these companies know that people will continue to hand over paychecks to them, also people like ourselves are probably in the minority
when it comes all the clueless parents buying games for their bratty children all they see are dollar signs.
Sony was giving out $10 for being loyal so you could begin to buy all your old games over again.

[Wretchedest]

I'm in no rage... and let the record show I'm quite the naysayer. I thought the event went much better than I expected. There's no always connected problem. I can still play used games.

There's no backwards compatability, but the only reason I would care is if I had a PS3. I do. I twill still play those games just fine. My TV has enough outlets to manage several HD consoles, and if it didn't switching between them would be a small inconvenience. the PS3 is a physically durable enough console that backwards compatibility isn't as much of an issue. I let it go a long time ago.

I also think they'll have a fix for this anyway. On Vita, I can download games that I purchased for PS3. the purchase is linked to my account. I'm sure there will be a similar solution. If not, whatever.

They showed off some cool looking games. The console is powerful, has some neat features, plays video games of the future.... what else can I really ask for?

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

What I wanna know is whether or not my purchases/free games will even be available on my PS3 after they launch their new store and all that for PS4. When that happens, are all the digital games on my PS3 that were given to me by PS Plus just going to be locked out forever, once PS Plus get replaced with their new thing? All signs point to yes so far, and that really makes me wonder if I want to drop 50 bucks for a year, plus three "free months," which in hindsight might not even matter anymore, if they're replacing PS Plus with a new program. I mean, I probably will, because it's still way cheaper than renting or buying games for the next few months, but it'd be nice to know if I can keep the games on my PS3 ON my PS3. If I can do that, I can probably pass on launch day.

For all we know, PS Plus could expire at launch, meaning anyone who buys a year subscription before Holiday 2013 is basically only getting 8 of the 12 months they're paying for, and that number'll just get smaller and smaller every day.

I just want more information. It's way to early to make a for sure decision, but I'm leaning towards holding off until a price drop, or the inevitable, cheaper, "PS4 Slim Model" with slightly more memory and a whole inch and a half thinner, which would just make my life SO much easier. :P

[Iran_Ed]

They showed off some cool looking games. The console is powerful, has some neat features, plays video games of the future.... what else can I really ask for?

I'm not trying to come off as a dick, but that's my problem. The new shiny more powerful thing they just put in front of people makes them forget all about the ills that have still not been put to bed.
Sure it plays games of the future, but all of the same problems are already bubbling up and we don't even know what the console looks like yet. Max Payne 3 was the last new disc based game I bought.
Everything else has been PSN games and those PS2 Collection games. I never had a PS2 so I'm buying these for the first time, but once again these games will be locked out of a new console so you can buy them again.

[Jinsai]

it's not sheer rage exactly... I'm just calling out the bullshit decisions where I'm seeing it.

The only rage I have is directly exclusively at Square Enix.

[Wretchedest]

What I wanna know is whether or not my purchases/free games will even be available on my PS3 after they launch their new store and all that for PS4. When that happens, are all the digital games on my PS3 that were given to me by PS Plus just going to be locked out forever, once PS Plus get replaced with their new thing? All signs point to yes so far, and that really makes me wonder if I want to drop 50 bucks for a year, plus three "free months," which in hindsight might not even matter anymore, if they're replacing PS Plus with a new program. I mean, I probably will, because it's still way cheaper than renting or buying games for the next few months, but it'd be nice to know if I can keep the games on my PS3 ON my PS3. If I can do that, I can probably pass on launch day.

For all we know, PS Plus could expire at launch, meaning anyone who buys a year subscription before Holiday 2013 is basically only getting 8 of the 12 months they're paying for, and that number'll just get smaller and smaller every day.

I just want more information. It's way to early to make a for sure decision, but I'm leaning towards holding off until a price drop, or the inevitable, cheaper, "PS4 Slim Model" with slightly more memory and a whole inch and a half thinner, which would just make my life SO much easier. :P

I really doubt that they'll get rid of Playstation Plus. In fact, the logo was shown during the presentation with the services available on PS4, so they'll probably just upgrade it. They'll likely try to extend the life of the PS3, because they had success doing that with the PS2, which was only discontinued a few months ago. If they do this, it makes sense to continue playstation plus as is, although likely with a different interface on PS4 and obviously some of the more gaikai/social features...


Maybe I'm being too optimistic, but IF they do pull a stunt like that it would be pretty awful and I'll be complaining, but at the moment this seems kind of baseless. Although I think it's natural to distrust a big media company, especially with a lot of rumors flying around.

[ImTheWiseJanitor]

Yeah, I think a lot of my discomfort with the whole thing is just stemming from the lack of details we have on...well, everything. I'm sure we'll have a lot more info by the time E3 rolls around, and that'll clear things up. They're just kinda painting a sloppy picture for us to interpret for the time being, and it sucks. :\

[Maury]

it's not sheer rage exactly... I'm just calling out the bullshit decisions where I'm seeing it.

You are showing a lack of understanding about how technology works. It's a different architecture, it would cost them considerably more to make it backwards compatible. The games you saw coming out on the PSN months later were ported by developers.

[Jinsai]

You are showing a lack of understanding about how technology works. It's a different architecture, it would cost them considerably more to make it backwards compatible. The games you saw coming out on the PSN months later were ported by developers.

No offense, but I'm not. People are demonstrating that you can emulate Ps3 games with a Ps4's spec PC.
Which should really be expected after 7 years.

And, if they're unwilling to do it, make my version of the system 100 dollars more expensive and throw the Cell into it, and I'll buy it.

They could sell a limited 10,000 version of it, and they will sell out overnight. Maybe I missed my calling.

[Maury]

You got a link supporting people who have built and emulated a PS3 on a PS4 spec PC? I mean, I'll gladly eat my words if you can prove this. However, the PS3 is a PowerPC and PS4 is x86. And you're too much of a niche market to make a more expensive machine. The reason the PS3 didn't initially take off like the XBox 360 is because of this very reason: They put in backwards compatibility in the early models and it drove the price of the system up. They'd rather catch 1000 more sales of a system that is cheaper than that 1 guy in 1000 desperately clinging to his old game library that still runs on a PS3.

[Madmya]

I have doubts that a PS3 emulator is out and running well. It'd be a POS.

[Wretchedest]

http://kotaku.com/5986138/jimmy-fall...t-ps4-hands-on

actually a really good demo, not being so sterile. You kind of get a good idea of how things look at its worst...

[Maury]

I like how the first comment points out that Jimmy claims to be this huge gamer nerd but then can't play for shit when someone hands him the controller.