Indecision 2012

[littlemonkey613]

Another glorious screenshot from the official Mittens website. YOU GUYS! Like can they at least hide our messiah complex behind less on the nose rhetoric? No shame at all these people.
The best....ally...world peace has ever known... is America having the world by the balls......
They literally think we are God appointed and inherently sovereign. I've never really thought about how annoying and scary this is for people not from America. How do you all not from the U.S react emotionally to this bullshit? I can't imagine since I want to tear my own hair out.

[Jinsai]

I love you women!!!!!



Is this a joke?

[Corvus T. Cosmonaut]

What the hell is that Jinsai I don't even

[Torgo]

"We are mothers! We're the wives! We are grandmothers! We are the big sisters! We are the littler sisters! And we are the daughters! You know it's true, don't you?"

We are humans! The sky is blue! I am blinking! There is air going into my mouth!

[allegro]

ugh. Ann Romney seems like a really nice lady, and she has my respect for her brave battle against MS (and cancer), but she's a terrible public speaker. My blood sugar count just went up so high, I'm gonna go inject my cat's insulin. Into my eyeballs.

[Kodiak33]

I really hate when rich people complain about how rough they had it. It must've been really hard for her and Mitt to live through his graduate years on stock options. What a fucking joke.

[Deus Ex Machina]

None of my complaint is even centered around how ludicrous I think their beliefs are. After all, I'm not a big fan of organized religion anyway, but Mormonism and Scientology hold a special designation where they seem transparently manufactured and cultish. I guess I'm resigned to the fact that all our politicians are going to be affiliated with some religious belief (we still have some states with laws prohibiting atheists from taking political office), but still, it worries me when we're talking about handing the keys over to someone who believes something so outrageous.

I guess that's a separate issue though

So this is horribly cynical, but it's kind of natural that a lot of those involved in organized religion a can't be counted on to support or act in a way that reflects the nastier parts of their religion. You just have to remember the type of person you're dealing with. Mitt Romney is the type of person who, after looking at the whole of the Mormon religion in all it's absurdity and awfulness, can't say no to it. It's fitting, in a way, that also lacks the spine to adopt/support the more controversial aspects of his faith. I'm not sure there ever comes a time for Mitt or people like him where he tries to reconcile his words with his actions.

[Elke]

God, Deus, you do realize how incredibly insulting that is, don't you? I mean, I understand what you're saying, but that only makes me feel even less respected.

[Deus Ex Machina]

God, Deus, you do realize how incredibly insulting that is, don't you? I mean, I understand what you're saying, but that only makes me feel even less respected.

Whoa, that's not directed at you, or all believers. What I meant to say was that there are a lot of people who think about and take seriously their religion (and I consider you a prime example of that). And then there are people who just don't really take it seriously at all. I've just seen so many people not give their 'beliefs' a second thought. Bearing the label of Christian or Mormon and then doing whatever you were going to do in the first place is kind of a proud American tradition; of which I'd argue that many of our conservative politicians are a result. They're not going to take any particularly hardline stand on anything, they just need the merit badge.

[littlemonkey613]

"We are mothers! We're the wives! We are grandmothers! We are the big sisters! We are the littler sisters! And we are the daughters! You know it's true, don't you?"

We are humans! The sky is blue! I am blinking! There is air going into my mouth!

Im also really annoyed by the fact that they absolutely refuse to refer to women in a way that doesn't attach us to other individuals. How about WE ARE FUCKING CITIZENS AND HALF THE POPULATION OF AMERICA? Literally every definition of "women" that they have comes down to involvement of some sort in the American "family". We can't just be women. We have to be serving someone else, raising someone else, or aiding a sibling. And that is our place, our accepted role and our destiny. It's just telling and interesting rhetoric. I know the other side is guilty as well however at least they actually have a Women's Issues section of their fucking platform and acknowledge that women actually aren't having their needs met in comparison to men in this country. Fuck you Romney. Oh yes Russia is such a bigger impending problem than sexism in America.

[Highly Psychological]

Another glorious screenshot from the official Mittens website. YOU GUYS! Like can they at least hide our messiah complex behind less on the nose rhetoric? No shame at all these people.
The best....ally...world peace has ever known... is America having the world by the balls......
They literally think we are God appointed and inherently sovereign. I've never really thought about how annoying and scary this is for people not from America. How do you all not from the U.S react emotionally to this bullshit? I can't imagine since I want to tear my own hair out.

The other 95 per cent of the world the 6.7 Billion citizens who are not citizens of the United States either do a severe facepalm, sit with their jaws open or burst out in hysterics.
I hope China does not make those type of messiah statements in a few decades time.

[allegro]

I hope China does not make those type of messiah statements in a few decades time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianxia (roughly "chyen shaw")

To China, China is the center of the universe.



See also: http://www.artofwarsuntzu.com/Art%20of%20War%20PDF.pdf

[Magtig]

All this talk of religion. As a former Mormon I say, "eh" to Romney's religion. If Romney's policy and rhetoric are directly tied to Mormon doctrine, fair game, but if it's just a chance to bash the Republican nominee then we're dealing with religious discrimination. What do you think they said about JFK's religion back when? What do you think Obama faced when getting elected (and still does*)? What do you think an atheist running for office would face?

Mormons believe god is a flesh and blood man who rules from a planet called, Kolob. They believe that "lamenites" are a people (Native Americans) cursed with dark skin for the sins of their ancestors while simultaneously believing that we have been granted the agency to act and do as we see fit on this planet and that we won't be punished for the sins of our fathers. They believe that the garden of eden is in Nauvoo, Illinois. Christians believe that women are rib-men with a vagina, and that the human species was kicked out of God's happy happy fun time garden for being convinced by a talking snake to eat an apple (WHOREZ!). They believe that God died for us in flesh and blood form in order to pay off a system of sin-debt that he created himself (does that come with frequent flier miles?). Three days later he rose from the dead just so he could say, "SEE BITCHEZ!?" before bailing again.

It's all fuckin crazy people. It might as well be Egyptian or Greek gods, who the fuck cares? Both religions in present day are founded on family and charity (on paper, at any rate), and hating the fuck out of faggots (who obviously have no charity or family, which is the price you pay for enjoying analingus). Voting according to which flavor of crazy is more crazy is crazy!

How is Romney's religion MORE relevant than Obama's, McCain's, Bush's, Al Gore's, Clinton's, etc? Religious discrimination is wrong when liberals do it too.



*As I was writing this Mike Huckabee was at the RNC saying some bullshit about Obama lying about his religion

[Jinsai]

What do you think they said about JFK's religion back when?

This is a good question, and it's important to note that JFK made a speech where he openly said that his religious convictions and possible allegiance to the pope would take a backseat to the constitution and the wellbeing of the American people... a statement that Rick Santorum remembered as a moment that "made [him] want to puke."

With Romney, he won't even engage the discussion. It's far from my biggest issue with him, but with the Mormons recently launching a 20 million dollar political campaign against gay marriage, it's part of my issue with him, especially with regards to where he stands in general with the church. Maybe it's better to aim elsewhere... but for me the issue is relevant.

And yes, I had a problem with Bush's born again pandering to evangelicals as well. I understand your point about "religious discrimination," but that doesn't mean we should take a candidate's (possibly?) most deeply held beliefs off the table.

[Magtig]

EDIT: [Almost] every president has been Christian, so it's back to the same issue. Again, Romney's voting record is more relevant than his beliefs. This also brings up an interesting point where we run into a contradiction: saying Romney believes in nothing and will say anything, and then turning around and saying that since his religion did "X" he will do the same because that's what he believes.

Romney isn't Rick Santorum, and if he panders to Mormons like Bush did to evangelicals then religion becomes a problem. So far though, the only thing I really see is people using it as a cudgel. If you're going to beat up on Romney, why not do it for the right reasons? Lord knows there are plenty of them.

[Jinsai]

Again, Romney's voting record is more relevant than his beliefs.

Of course, but his beliefs are important too aren't they?

This also brings up an interesting point where we run into a contradiction: saying Romney believes in nothing and will say anything, and then turning around and saying that since his religion did "X" he will do the same because that's what he believes.

I don't think I've heard the argument that he doesn't truly affiliate himself with anything or really believe or have an agenda, it's that it's uncertain exactly what that is.... because he's a dodgy evasive fuck about everything.

Romney isn't Rick Santorum

Exactly... we knew what Rick Santorum was all about, and I think we all agree that Santorum's religious convictions were a little disturbing. The religious issue is a blank with Romney. We really don't know where he stands here either.

if he panders to Mormons like Bush did to evangelicals then religion becomes a problem.

That's pretty much my issue with it.

So far though, the only thing I really see is people using it as a cudgel. If you're going to beat up on Romney, why not do it for the right reasons? Lord knows there are plenty of them.

Sure... but it's not all or nothing right? I mean, Romney is cagey and defensive when asked about his religion, and that's being excused by "religious tolerance."
But you did ask earlier how I'd feel about a hypothetical atheist candidate being vetted for his beliefs. I would have no problem with it, and I don't think an atheist politician would either. This is beside the fact that atheism isn't a religion, but I think deeply seated beliefs should be discussed, especially when people are evasive about it while running for office.

I understand where you're coming from, and I agree it's definitely not the biggest issue on the table here, but I don't think we should shy away from it in the name of religious tolerance.

[allegro]

Every president has been Christian

whoa, wait a second ...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism#D..._United_States

[ambergris]

Again, Romney's voting record is more relevant than his beliefs.

Romney has no voting record, lulz.

His mormonism, so far, should only matter insofar as he once said that he paid 13% in income taxes, but with charity, he gave away 20%. However, since the mormon church requires a tithe on income, he probably gave nothing to charity voluntarily at all.

[Jinsai]

Romney has no voting record, lulz.

He still took a stance on issues in the past... that's the strange thing though. He's against the stimulus plan in hindsight now, but before he was vocally supportive. He once said that Roe v Wade was something we shouldn't mess with, and that abortions should remain "safe and legal." Now, he's taking a hard line pro life stance (along with picking Paul Ryan as his running mate). If you go back far enough, you can hear him rant about how they should ban super PACs. As governor, he supported banning assault weapons, and now he says the US doesn't need any new gun laws.

Since he seems so completely opposed to everything he was formerly in support of (and vice versa), do we just assume that he will back the hardline neo-con party line at this point? Is he truly just a scripted puppet, and if so, who's pulling the strings? Or do we assume that by picking Paul Ryan as his running mate, Romney endorses his stances on issues?

It's so strange to be this close to the election and to be so uncertain exactly what Romney is about. So yes, I want full disclosure from him. I want to know as much as I can about the guy's history and beliefs. I want to know if he tormented some kid in college as a "prank," I want to know if he drove around with his dog strapped to the roof of his car, and I want to know where he stands on the issue of the planet Kolob.

I would rather see his tax returns, but since it seems like we're not going to get that...

on a somewhat unrelated note, this is an interesting read

[onthewall2983]

I feel bad for Clint. The party he believes in no longer exists.

[allegro]

Clint isn't a hard line party platform Republican.

Neither is a Romney. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_1834888.html

Neither the Democratic nor Republican parties are "the same." I'm reading a book about Antietam, when the Republicans were against slavery and the Democrats were pro slavery and against big government.

The first national presidential conventions I watched were in 1968, just after Bobby Kennedy was assassinated. I don't see a whole lot of differences between Democrats and Republicans, now.

[onthewall2983]

My fellow Lefties are going to bitch and joke about his appearance tonight. But my lifetime pass for him just makes tonight a little sad.

[allegro]

Any true "Leftie" is less concerned about Clint Eastwood and more concerned about Jill Stein.

[jessamineny]

Clint should introduce Mitt at every single upcoming campaign appearance.

[Jinsai]

The strangest part was where Eastwood placed the blame for the war in Afghanistan squarely on Obama's shoulders, and then said that Mitt wants us to "bring the troops home tomorrow."

What kind of strange madness is this? Someone says (at the RNC) that we need to bring our troops home NOW, and the statement is greeted with riotous, overwhelming applause... from Republicans?

When did the republicans decide to start "hating the troops?"

[Magtig]

You may have heard that even Fox News took issue with Paul Ryan's blatant lies, but did you read the actual article? They called him out way more than you heard. Take this, for example:

"The good news is that the Romney-Ryan campaign has likely created dozens of new jobs among the legions of additional fact checkers that media outlets are rushing to hire to sift through the mountain of cow dung that flowed from Ryan’s mouth. Said fact checkers have already condemned certain arguments that Ryan still irresponsibly repeated."

Nice work, Fox.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...intcmp=related

[Elke]

We built it?

Are they fucking kidding? How can anyone with half a brain and a functioning access to YouTube take this campaign seriously?

[M1ke]

The one thing nobody in this campaign is talking about is the ugly reality of what really needs to happen to fix the USA.

Just like a business, when times are tough, cuts need to be made, portions of a company get sold off, people get laid off.

Lets either sell texas or just shut it down completely. I mean it's really not been performing lately anyways, and we need to save some cash. Maybe we can bring it back when things are better, but for now it's just dragging everyone else down.

Maybe we should look at a few other states too. One might not be enough, I wonder how much money could be saved if the USA was downsized by 25% of its states?

I think it's been a while since Utah has turned in a TPS report on time.

[ambergris]

I don't see a whole lot of differences between Democrats and Republicans, now.

Wow.... The differences between them are probably starker than they were since maybe 1932. Tax policy, social policy, foreign policy, judicial nominations, health care...

[Magtig]

The one thing nobody in this campaign is talking about is the ugly reality of what really needs to happen to fix the USA.

Just like a business, when times are tough, cuts need to be made, portions of a company get sold off, people get laid off.

Lets either sell texas or just shut it down completely. I mean it's really not been performing lately anyways, and we need to save some cash. Maybe we can bring it back when things are better, but for now it's just dragging everyone else down.

I love Austin and Houston, but let's face it: Texas has been trying to get itself fired from the US for some time now.