bastard from blue city
The vinyl reissues haven't had bonuses or anything, just the main album. Following that trend, I suspect it will just be the recompiled album on a 3x or 4xLP.Originally Posted by Shadaloo
Honestly don't see the original albums being reissued on vinyl at all, which is a bummer for me – in that case, I'd definitely be buying the CD box only. This assumes BC will ruin the new mixes, though, so I guess there's a chance I won't hate the remix and will buy it too.
Active Member
Another new song released tonight. This time it's for the song Anno Satana and I think kinda like this one.
Active Member
If you've pre-ordered the album, Birch Grove is also available tonight.
Active Member
2 more songs of meandering, dynamicless, soulless, emotionless, structureless, going nowhere, bandless, all sounds the same borefest.
Billy calls himself a musician yet where is the musicianship?
This reminds me of an 80s version of that shitty band Visiting Day from The Sopranos that Adriana wanted to manage, just worse songs of meandering, dynamicless, soulless, emotionless, structureless, going nowhere, bandless, all sounds the same borefest
Even better, Billy really thought the album needed 20 tracks of this. 20 tracks of the same meandering garbage.
Throbbing Member
I personally can deal with all of the questionable stuff, it's his vision after all and he can do as he pleases but man do I hate these female backing vocals, no disrespect to them and I'm sure they are talented but they are on every fucking song, not sure it's that necessary in the end.
Unintelligible Whispering
Did you get an email? I didn't get an email.
Feels like Birch Grove might be about people preferring a version of him that no longer exists. Interesting.
Active Member
You mean the talented version who knew how to write a decent song? Yea, tell me about. It seems that version of him surely does not exist anymore.
Unintelligible Whispering
You'd think that by now maybe you'd have moved on or something?
Active Member
Nope. This is a trainwreck of epic proportions and I'm here to watch it all play out. I can't wait for Billy to blame the fans for not getting it. I can't wait for when they return to the live shows and how bored the audience will be during these songs shouting, "Play Cherub Rock!"
Unintelligible Whispering
Hey, you do you, but there are by and large reasons I don't post in various threads around here; the artists don't make music that speaks to me anymore, so I don't bother (Looking at you Depeche Mode). I'll never understand wanting someone to fail, even if they're a douche like Billy tends to be.
And really and truly, I don't think he cares anymore. This entire album seems intentionally orchestrated as a giant "fuck you" to everyone to wanted SP to sound remotely recognizable, and I kinda dig the stones it takes to do something like that, even if not every song jibes with me. Last year one of his Instagram answers said people would be pissed off in the future, and I'm pretty sure this is what he was referring to.
Flipside of your wish though is that everyone will also talking about how much better the new songs sound live, which has happened with every single release dating back to Machina.
Active Member
See, you're mistaken there. I don't want Billy to fail. I want him to make an awesome album. This is just so bafflingly bad that I am in awe. He finally has his band back together and he made this crap. I guess Billy is aiming for those Starbucks tweens. At least with Billy's past work, there were hints of something redeeming. Superchrist, Astral Planes, Inkless, Tiberius, Marching On. Then, you get this. By far, the worst thing he's done.
I don't see these songs changing much live. They're too electronic and too rigid. Previous stuff has room to breathe and for Jimmy and even James to add some stuff. I can't see that happening with these. Another issue is these songs just do not change. It's 3-4 minutes of the same blah beat. There's just not enough there to amp them up unless Billy completely reworks them from the ground up. As they are, there's no room for Jimmy to go wild or Billy to riff/solo.. But I'm guessing it'll be just Jimmy playing along to some click-based programmed beats. And we've seen the shows now. It's all highly rehearsed, never changing, no jamming allowed. Billy couldn't be bothered to remove the live intros to some songs that were originally set to video for their big screen/video tour on the later tour without the screens. It's all just so programmed now. Even the live shows have lost the soul of a live show by becoming so rigid. It wasn't like that before up until the reunion tour.
Last edited by neorev; 10-10-2020 at 12:10 AM.
Throbbing Member
I hope the first side of this album is all this electro pop. And the second side is Tales of a Scorched Earth.
A guy can hope right?
Stubby Member
Man, I really want to like this stuff, but I was bored of Anno Satana within the first minute and a half. Birch Grove is pretty nice, though, I guess. Neither of these songs makes me particularly excited for the album.
Song rankings so far:
1.Wrath (Thought this one had nothing to it, but repeat listens have me loving it. Actually gets stuck in my head from time to time)
2.Confessions (Succeeds in terms of mood; this reminds me a lot of what they were trying to do around the Adore era. Reminds me a bit of Eye)
3. Birch (Something about this one feels a little more genuine; it's not a fantastic song by any means but I do like the emotion that comes through)
4. Cyr (Genuine "wtf" reaction to this one when I first heard it; I've since decided it really is pretty catchy despite its awkwardness)
5. Anno Satana (There are a lot of elements I like about this song, like the nifty little guitar bit, but this one feels especially flat. Feels like there was the opportunity for a good song here, but there's a lack of that x factor to push it over into being something more memorable. That's kinda how Billy's music has felt since Monuments imo.)
6. Colour (lazy lyrics are super offputting here; I think it's the least interesting melodically)
Last edited by ZeroSum; 10-10-2020 at 12:11 PM.
Unintelligible Whispering
But you want him to succeed on your terms, making straight rock music; all those are examples of songs that use the traditional guitar/bass/drums. And you're talking about Jimmy going wild on drums and Billy doing solos and riffs and...
There you go. That's why you don't like it.
I'm sitting here, and I'm remembering stuff like Eye, Pug, The Beginning Is The End Is The Beginning, Saturnine, Blissed and Gone, the covers of Destination Unknown, Isolation. This stuff has precedent.
And all of the above songs work just fine live, from all the performances I've seen where they were played, those that were, as did TheFutureEmbrace tracks (And for a good example of how he can change things up, check out his acoustic performance of Now And Then on the Ogilala tour)
Like Machina was the worst thing he's ever done. Like Mary Star Of The Sea. Like Zeitgeist. Teargarden. Oceania. Monuments. No Past No Future No Sun. Here we are.
It's the same shit every single time he puts out an album, and I'm just...tired of it. This stuff sure ain't up to classic SP levels, but we're nowhere near "Widow Wake My Mind" or "Owata" areas of terrible cheesy awfulness.
Because he spent years having people go, as you put it, tell him to "Play Cherub Rock". So he did. He trotted out all the hits, he made it a great big parody spectacle, because you tell him to do something and he throws it back in your face. It's the way the guy's always operated. You want them to be a rock band? Boom. "Stairway to Heaven." HERE-IS-EXACTLY-WHAT-YOU-WANT.
It will never be 1995 again, and as much as people like to defend themselves and say "I don't want them to do SD or MCIS again" they still want them to do that type of music. To jam, to go on 25 minute rock solos.
Flashback: 2007. Goassamer. He did. And people told him it sucked.
Granted, he is over-sensitive; the whole reason ChicagoKid got shelved was because people on the internet complained it wasn't rock music. And that was stupid.
But that was 2004 or so. At this point, If I was him, getting the same reactions after all these years, I'd tell my old fanbase to go fuck themselves, too.
Unintelligible Whispering
You know what I'm reminded of? Mechanical Animals and Kid A. Not that I'm saying that this will in any way be comparable to how time has looked fondly on those albums, but...I've been here before. "What is this electronic shit?" "What is this glam rock shit"?
Well, no reward without risk. I sincerely do hope this album succeeds.
Active Member
I have no problem with more electronic stuff from them, Adore is maybe my favorite SP record even. These songs just suck. All of them feel lifeless, plodding and forgettable. I remember part of Cyr and that’s it despite having listened to every single track released so far. I have a feeling that the whole album is going to be like these, 20 songs that blur together and go nowhere and not a single track with any semi-relatable or human lyrics.
Billy’s always done some ridiculous shit in the past, but there was a balance to it — the weird titles were sprinkled in, the more flowery writing would get contrasted by incredibly direct and emotional stuff, there was a diversity to it all that feels completely absent from this. If you’re going to get the band back together, get them back together, don’t just use them for marketing purposes. There’s no reason for Jimmy or James to be in this band at this point other than the touring money must be good.
Active Member
You could make action figures out of how plastic these new songs sound.
Only By Night
For someone that loved all of their earlier work, I keep hearing Oceania is a good one to jump into regarding their new material, that accurate? I stopped paying attention after the Kaleidoscope EP's.
Banned
Starting to think Shadaloo is Billy's burner account. It has nothing to do with him experimenting. It has to do with him sucking. The dude doesn't know how to write a good song anymore. Whatever talent he HAD, is long gone. I don't think he could write another 'bullet with butterfly wings' or straight ahead rock song even if he wanted to. Its over for Billy boy. The carcass that is the Smashing Pumpkins is laying in the middle of the road for all to see. Now we all just want to glance at the dead body before the flies and vultures pick it clean
Unintelligible Whispering
No, I'm just someone who's been following this band for years and I'm used to the same old shit, again and again. Give it a few years and people will be 'reevaluating' it after it all sinks in.
I've said it before, I'm not calling these songs great, but I really do like Wrath and Birch Grove a lot. The others are middle of the road.
But you?
You legitimately think Manson's Hot Topic period ended when he started offering Hot Topic exclusives. Your opinion means less than nothing to me.
There it is again.
Speak for yourself; after all, judging by the Gary Numan thread, it's the way you like to envision yourself.
And it's fucking sad.
Active Member
You hit the nail on the head! I have no issues with electronic stuff, Adore is one of the best records any band has done, but this stuff is bland and unimaginative.
I don't know man...Monuments to an Elegy still sounds like a borefest to my ears. Oceania, on the other hand, felt great for me since the first spin. I really don't know what happened in Oceania...he had a great producer to rein him in, or maybe he was in a great creative mood then? Oceania is a homerun to my ears. Zeitgeist is good too (not great). This stuff is just sad. After Monuments to an Elegy I didn't bother to pick up Shiny Vol. 1 (first SP album I don't buy, it seems like the trend will continue with this one).
Go get Oceania, man, it's great. The live album showcasing that record is also good stuff.
Unintelligible Whispering
Something I've been thinking about lately, mostly because I've been listening to Fear Factory a bunch since Burton left (again), and that's a band who never changed their sound up and doesn't seem to have much of a fanbase left. Or KMFDM over the past 10 years, for that matter.
If Billzebub had stuck to standard rock, had never shot for the electrogoth Adore atmosphere, the cyberprog of the Machinas, the faux-psychedelia of Teargarden, the..whatever the fuck Monuments was, and now this...would anyone still be talking about his music?
Or would it be more like U2, Pearl Jam, where an album comes out and it's basically "yep, sure is another unremarkable U2 album" and then everyone forgets about it the next month?
I kinda feel like if he were making the kind of albums people want him to make, it'd be just that, but even more disappointing, because he clearly isn't mr. angsty rockstar anymore. Like, imagine his current over-wrought lyrical tendencies over shredding guitar riffs. Just...blech. Something like "Marchin' On" just might be the best he's capable of.
I think the bands that leave the biggest marks are those who aren't afraid to change things up, keep current. That doesn't mean they get a pass for shaking things up - nobody thinks Wild Mood Swings is a good Cure album - but it's a major reason people still love Bowie, NIN, why they got new fanbases.
And...how big is rock music now, really? Who are the big faces? Ghost? Steel Panther? Both bands trade heavily on appearance and one is straight parody.
There's an easy argument to make that his theatrics are right at home there, but...maybe Bill also thinks it isn't worth holding onto that audience anymore.
I'm not out to convince anyone these songs are good. They feel underwritten and, yes, formulaic. But if what he wants is to move away from big arena rock music...I kinda have a hard time blaming him.
Just musing in the dark while my power's out.
Last edited by Shadaloo; 10-10-2020 at 08:17 PM.
Unintelligible Whispering
Monuments is the one I truly hate, but even that seems to have its fans. I feel like it's exactly the sound of Billy imitating himself and I loathe it.
Oceania was largely the result of a painful breakup, and I would agree that it's the best 'recent' effort. I still think Zeitgeist with all bonus tracks is solid...but that's not recent anymore.
Active Member
Uh. I love it. also I love Bloodflowers.
Unintelligible Whispering
Those two things are not remotely the same.
And 'an album I like' and 'a good X band album' aren't the same thing. I know this because I also enjoy Fear Factory's Transgression.
And Manson's High End Of Low.
And Bowie's Never Let me down.
Point in fact I'd wager there isn't a single one of us on this board that doesn't love a commonly reviled album.
Last edited by Shadaloo; 10-10-2020 at 08:15 PM.
Bite me
Many artists can move in and out of different genres, successfully. Billy isn’t one of them. He’s run out of ideas. And it appears to be because he’s not objective about his material; he thinks everything he poops is brilliant, and if people don’t like it, they just don’t “get” it.
Last edited by allegro; 10-10-2020 at 08:22 PM.
Banned
Thats where you are lost. NOBODY is talking about Billy's new music anymore, unless its to shit on it. He doesn't move the needle anymore. He probably thought the Pumpkins reunion would lead to selling out stadiums like the GNR reunion, meanwhile most of the arena dates featured lots of empty seats. Nobody cares (except you). His albums come and go and are forgotten about within 2 weeks. He goes on Howard Stern last year to promote a new album and Stern spent the entire interview requesting songs from Mellon Collie lmao. In 1995 Billy boy thought he was going to slot in and replace Kurt as the voice of a generation....And now he is what he always feared he would become. Washed up and forgotten.....And it kills him....He spent half the Stern interview ranting and raving about how it drives him crazy the Foo Fighters and Pearl Jam are huge. Hes clearly jealous. He so desperately wanted to be Kurt Cobain.
Last edited by Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell); 10-10-2020 at 11:11 PM.
Active Member
I will always come to Oceania's defense, it's a fantastically underrated album, as far as I'm concerned. Give it a chance and allow it to sink in, I don't think you'll be disappointed. I personally think it's the best of their post-breakup material. It really re-captures some of that classic SP feel.
Active Member
There is a little problem with your assertion. I'm an electronic music fan, even moreso than rock. This is lifeless electronic music. I literally make electronic music. My music collection is 75-80% electronic music. It takes a lot for a pure rock band to do something for me. A lot of the rock I do like has electronic elements mixed in. I'm someone whose favorite SP album is Adore, whose favorite Radiohead album is Kid A, whose favorite Manson album is MA. The problem with your Kid A and Mechanical Animals comparison is those albums are praised and actually good. Billy hasn't made a Kid A. I wish he did. Sure, those albums may have turned some classic fans off, but ultimately the greatness of the album shined through and they were widely praised. Whereas with Billy, it's fans disliking it and the albums simply getting no outside praise because they're not new or groundbreaking. Simply put, they're not great albums. I was a Radiohead fan since Creep who flipping loves Kid A. I was never a huge Manson, but prefer Mechanical Animals out of all his albums. But he hasn't done another MA and mostly repeats himself now. I'm all for changing up your style and trying something new... if it's good.
But with Billy's latest, this is just shit electronic music.
I'm not looking for Billy to make some grand rock record. I just want him to make a good record that makes me feel something... anything. Well, not hate and disgust and boredom. These songs are so lifeless and meandering. They just plod along with barely any build up or momentum. They don't go anywhere. I feel nothing from these songs. There is no sense of urgency. They're the equivalent of musical wallpaper. Perhaps the local Starbucks will put these on. Billy's flowery prose feels pretentious and disingenuous. It sounds like music from someone who has nothing to say. For me, SP were more about the music than Billy's voice. But the music now is subpar with Billy's voice front and center. And he's spouting some pretentious mad libs. Machina was an okay album while Machina II had better tracks, but both fucked by crap production. I prefer over Zeitgeist over Machina. Oceania is alright. Kinda dips in the middle. Monuments was too repetitive, but at least it had structure. Shiny's main problem was being over produced and not letting the band shine through. But this new material is just so artificial and soulless. Perhaps fame has left him with nothing to say. At least with his previous albums, there were a couple of tracks that made me feel something. Superchrist, United States, Bleeding The Orchid, Astral Planes, The Fellowship, Quasar, Inkless (the original mix), Tiberius, Monuments, etc. I didn't really like Zwan. More of Billy's floweriness. So far the new album has been 6 tracks that all bleed together.
I'm sorry, but these songs are Grade A dog shit. I don't need Billy to rock, I need music that makes me feel something. These songs are over produced meandering 3 minutes of paint drying.
Billy did prove me wrong. I thought he couldn't get any worse. I return to Billy when he has a new album hoping he can wow me and make me feel something again. But these new songs... wow, he's gone to epic level of suck. Billy can do whatever he wants. It doesn't change the fact if something sucks, it sucks. Congrats, Billy! You did what you wanted and it blew.
Also, perhaps the reason keep calling his newer music shit because it really is just not that amazing or groundbreaking? I mean, that very well could be a possibility. What? It's everyone else who is wrong? Perhaps the newer music is just not that good and doesn't connect with people like his other stuff.
I'd love to hear Billy's Kid A. But I can tell you that Aegea was not that.
Last edited by neorev; 10-11-2020 at 04:27 AM.
Active Member
Thank you! I don't know how many other ways I can explain this. The new music is just shit.
I'm starting to think Jimmy and James are simply a marketing ploy to sucker us into hearing more Billy solo albums.
I'd love to hear Jimmy or James, please.
I'm starting to wish we could get a Smashing Pumpkins with Chino Moreno on vocals instead of Billy.
Last edited by neorev; 10-11-2020 at 04:14 AM.
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