The Marvel Thread - Multiverses and other Shenanigans

[henryeatscereal]

Thanks Final Destiny.
I see now. So it is correct to say that Ultron will be a Tony Stark creation?
I'm just trying to wrap this around my head.

Since "Ant Man" is getting his own movie directed by Edgar Wright and it will be a different franchise they decided to drop the Hank Pym character and handed the creation of Ultron to Iron Man (since "Jarvis" is an artificial intelligence already i think it will be "easier" to the audience to "accept" the fact that Tony is building a "better" and "improved" version of Jarvis as Ultron)
I hate the idea and found out it was very forced but what else are you going to do? we're talking about the guys that decided that The Mandarin should be joke...

[Archive_Reports]

Has anyone brought up the possibility that Pym still creates Ultron but is working for the government or another party? It could be revealed at the end and tie it directly to the Ant Man movie.

[marodi]

Maybe it was because i was really high at the time but i fucking loved fantastic four and the silver surfer

It must have been some really great stuff you were having!

Has anyone brought up the possibility that Pym still creates Ultron but is working for the government or another party? It could be revealed at the end and tie it directly to the Ant Man movie.

Mayyyybe but they will have to find a way to explain where Ultron comes from in the movie, don't they?

Joss Whedon have said that The Godfather part II is his "guiding star" for Age of Ultron. I'm still trying to process that.

[henryeatscereal]

It must have been some really great stuff you were having!



Mayyyybe but they will have to find a way to explain where Ultron comes from in the movie, don't they?

Joss Whedon have said that The Godfather part II is his "guiding star" for Age of Ultron. I'm still trying to process that.

So, Tony Stark will be going to Italy at some point?

[gorast]

Since "Ant Man" is getting his own movie directed by Edgar Wright and it will be a different franchise they decided to drop the Hank Pym character and handed the creation of Ultron to Iron Man (since "Jarvis" is an artificial intelligence already i think it will be "easier" to the audience to "accept" the fact that Tony is building a "better" and "improved" version of Jarvis as Ultron)
I hate the idea and found out it was very forced but what else are you going to do? we're talking about the guys that decided that The Mandarin should be joke...

What?

There's nothing forced about it. This is a completely different universe, one in which Hank Pym is currently an offhand remark by Selvig in Thor. Having him be responsible for the primary villain of Avengers 2 makes no sense for the audience the film is aiming at - the ones who don't read comics, but have been following these movies because they're good and they make sense. It makes sense to give Ultron to Tony, because Tony is who the entire universe revolves around. This is not 616 on the big screen. Origins do not have to conform to fifty-year-old comic books.

[henryeatscereal]

What?

There's nothing forced about it. This is a completely different universe, one in which Hank Pym is currently an offhand remark by Selvig in Thor. Having him be responsible for the primary villain of Avengers 2 makes no sense for the audience the film is aiming at - the ones who don't read comics, but have been following these movies because they're good and they make sense. It makes sense to give Ultron to Tony, because Tony is who the entire universe revolves around. This is not 616 on the big screen. Origins do not have to conform to fifty-year-old comic books.

I agree that Tony as the creator of Ultron works better for the movie plot, he was already introduced to the movie audience and as i mentioned the "Jarvis AI" could be a parting point into making Ultron as a "credible" thing that Tony would built.
I agree that introducing Hank would only confuse the audience and it's better to hand the origin to Stark but that doesn' justify Marvelt to eliminate the Hank Pyn character altogether.
Either as Ant-Man, Giant Man or Yellow-jacket he's one of the coolest members of the Avengers, the character would work on screen and would be a much needed "wildcard" to the Avengers roster because his infamous "mood swings".
I think i would work in Avengers 2, he's still a founding avenger and would be awesome to watch him shrink or grow large to kick some ass...

In my opinion Pym works better as an avenger than as a solo hero, 'course i could be wrong and i have tremendous trust in someone like Edgar Wright to make his film, but i rather have him as a member of the Avengers and if that happens i could be easy to "buy" the fact that he creates Ultron.

[gorast]

That's probably why Pym isn't the focus, in favor of Lang. It's going to be quite interesting to see, if Wright decides to make Pym a prototypical superhero of the 60s, or if Pym will have just created the technology but never used it, leaving the door open for Lang to become the "true" Ant-Man.

In any case, I knew very little about comics when the film was announced, so I thought it would be monumentally stupid, but now that I actually know these characters, there are so, so many ways to make the film awesome.

[henryeatscereal]

That's probably why Pym isn't the focus, in favor of Lang. It's going to be quite interesting to see, if Wright decides to make Pym a prototypical superhero of the 60s, or if Pym will have just created the technology but never used it, leaving the door open for Lang to become the "true" Ant-Man.

In any case, I knew very little about comics when the film was announced, so I thought it would be monumentally stupid, but now that I actually know these characters, there are so, so many ways to make the film awesome.

I agree: the movies are one thing and the comics a whole different beast...

[AgentofChaos]

What?

There's nothing forced about it. This is a completely different universe, one in which Hank Pym is currently an offhand remark by Selvig in Thor. Having him be responsible for the primary villain of Avengers 2 makes no sense for the audience the film is aiming at - the ones who don't read comics, but have been following these movies because they're good and they make sense. It makes sense to give Ultron to Tony, because Tony is who the entire universe revolves around. This is not 616 on the big screen. Origins do not have to conform to fifty-year-old comic books.

Sorry but this is bullshit to me. Everyone's biggest gripe about the x-universe is how they make everything extremely Wolvie centric. Now they're doing the same thing to Tony Stark in this world, and its not a cop out? How is it any different?

Here are some other reasons why Tony creating Ultron is problematic for the MCU for me;

1) As much as I disliked Iron Man 3 for many reasons, this would make the end of that film even more pointless and annoying. For a stand alone film, the whole point was to get Tony to learn some responsibility for his machines and thus he destroys them at the end as they became too powerful to control. Fast forward to A2, and oh ok he completely disregards everything he learns there and immediately creates some end of the world type intelligence that gets away from him. Nice, so IM3 becomes even more useless to the MCU - at this stage in the game that is just flat out terrible planning. Obviously he has to get back into the suit at some point, but the way to do that is by introducing a new relevant character to force that issue, not for Tony to immediately take 3 steps backward for no thought out or legitimate reason.

2) If you are not connecting Pym to Ultron in any way, what in the hell is the point of introducing him as the immediate direct follow up to Avengers 2? You could still use Jarvis and have Stark be connected to the development but there needs to be a catalyst and Pym would be an excellent choice, especially given the timing. Again, I'm not asking for perfect comic book continuity, but make the characters you introduce relevant and the choices well planned and this does not appear to be either. It seems like AoU has pretty much no connection to IM3 at this point, and Ant Man is almost not even relevant at all to the MCU despite the fact it will be released a couple months afterward. It's like Wright just really wanted to do the movie, and they were like ok, but you can't have it touch or connect to anything we're doing. Because that would require too much work and/or attention to detail? Give me a fucking break. Maybe I'm wrong and they will try, at least loosely to connect them, but it's hard to have faith at this point. And you can't say well all of this is being done for the mainstream audience, because if we're watching an Ant Man movie featuring a founding member of the Avengers which has no ties to the Avengers MCU, then why the fuck is the mainstream audience even going to see Ant Man? This is not exactly a story that just needs to be told here. It's poor business because you want to give fans of Avengers a reason to see this flick, poor strategy because it devalues the other films in the phase, all while being disrespectful to the cannon in the process and pissing off the fan base. Where exactly is the benefit?

3) So if Jarvis becomes Ultron, you waste the Paul Bettany voice and just "replace" him with Spader? Seems a little off that because the machine evolves and becomes evil that his voice would just randomly change. It seems like this needs to be a new entity that would co-exist alongside Jarvis since while Tony is battling him he will still need a "co-pilot" so to speak. So while Jarvis could easily be connected to the creation of Ultron in some way, it would seem hard to accomplish this through Tony Stark without destroying the Jarvis character entirely, which would just be counter productive and provide a time wasting and needlessly difficult cinematic transition for so many reasons.


So yes, to me, giving Ultron to Tony is a brutal call. At least at this point. It's not so much that it's forced, its just fucking lazy. If you were going to go that route, you needed to plant the seeds in IM3, not just assume that the events of the previous film have little to no effect on the character and that it won't matter or people won't notice. Now maybe I'm wrong, and I'd be happy to eat crow here. But after IM3, my expectations are low. I hope Whedon can prove me wrong and there is currently more vision to the MCU than I can see right now.

[marodi]

I think we're all forgetting that between now and Age of Ultron, there's still The Winter Soldier to come. The theory concerning WS is that it will paint Shield in a lot less sympathetic way (and Agents of Shield has already started that with the extreme ways Fury went to to keep Coulson alive). We already know Shield is shady from The Avengers; they were planning to build an arsenal based on the Tesseract. So my theory is that Shield will be exposed as definitely not friendly in WS (causing Cap Spoiler: to apparently steal his old uniform from the Smithsonian because the new one represents Shield and that's not what he stands for ). From the Winter Soldier trailer we also know that Spoiler: Fury is injured in a car accident, courtesy of dear old brainwashed Bucky; maybe he's replaced at the head of Shield? .

On the other hand, the MCU has established that Stark's technology has been stolen from him before. So here's my theory: Shield got their hands on a version of Jarvis (because why wouldn't they want it) and by tinkering with it, they end up creating Ultron. Stark blames Shield, Shield blames Stark, Banner sees green and Baron von Strucker comes out of nowhere to do God knows what.

As an after the credit scene, it could be revealed that Shield had tasked Hank Pym to mess with Stark technology, making him the creator of Ultron and introducing him for his upcoming movie.

In my head, it all makes sense. But then a lot of things do when in reality, they make no sense at all. :P

[gorast]

I don't have the focus to formulate a response right now, but I do just want to say that the X-Men universe is trash and the MCU doesn't deserve to be compared to that, even in an argument that makes sense.

(You guys see Quicksilver? What the fuck is Bryan Singer doing?)

[The Great Destroyer]

After seeing the costume designs for DoFP, it's pretty clear Bryan Singer has lost any of the credibility he had from the first 2 X-Men movies. Why does Wolverine need body armor? And Quicksilver's costume is horrible; makes the leather outfits from Daredevil look good! I was excited for this movie and Apocalypse as it might have reversed the franchise's negative momentum, but if anything it'll be an overcrowded mess of a movie.

[ziltoid]

I think we're all forgetting that between now and Age of Ultron, there's still The Winter Soldier to come. The theory concerning WS is that it will paint Shield in a lot less sympathetic way (and Agents of Shield has already started that with the extreme ways Fury went to to keep Coulson alive). We already know Shield is shady from The Avengers; they were planning to build an arsenal based on the Tesseract. So my theory is that Shield will be exposed as definitely not friendly in WS (causing Cap Spoiler: to apparently steal his old uniform from the Smithsonian because the new one represents Shield and that's not what he stands for ). From the Winter Soldier trailer we also know that Spoiler: Fury is injured in a car accident, courtesy of dear old brainwashed Bucky; maybe he's replaced at the head of Shield? ...


As an after the credit scene, it could be revealed that Shield had tasked Hank Pym to mess with Stark technology, making him the creator of Ultron and introducing him for his upcoming movie.

In my head, it all makes sense. But then a lot of things do when in reality, they make no sense at all. :P

Could this be a catalyst to start tier three of the movies and set up Civil War?
I mean how possible could this be since some of the integral characters are split by different movie companies?

How excellent could Civil War be in movie form if done right?
I'm maybe setting myself up for disappointment for something that may never happen but I can't help myself from hoping that this could become reality. After IM3 I need to keep my enthusiasm and reality in check

[henryeatscereal]

QUicksilver looks like (DC's) Impulse, WTF...

[The Great Destroyer]

Could this be a catalyst to start tier three of the movies and set up Civil War?
I mean how possible could this be since some of the integral characters are split by different movie companies?

How excellent could Civil War be in movie form if done right?
I'm maybe setting myself up for disappointment for something that may never happen but I can't help myself from hoping that this could become reality. After IM3 I need to keep my enthusiasm and reality in check

Avengers 3 is going to be the Infinity Gauntlet, not Civil War.

[marodi]

Could this be a catalyst to start tier three of the movies and set up Civil War?

Funny you should say that because I've just read that Marvel is already planning Captain America 3

While I don't believe the whole Civil War story line could be done, they could adapt some of it, mainly the events culminating in Captain America's death. WS is introducing Crossbones and Sharon and Bucky's back just in time to become the new Cap.

I don't want to get my hopes up (or anyone else's) but we've seen a couple of shots with Bucky holding the shield. Maybe it means nothing at all too...

And yes Avengers 3 will deal with Thanos.

[orestes]

Sooooo Thor 3 has been confirmed with scriptwriting duties being shuffled around for Craig Kyle and Christopher Yost, both veterans of comic book writing. Nothing's been confirmed as far as overall storyline but there's a possibility the movie will entail Ragnarok (please include Sutur and Amora!) There are rumors that the movie will be released on May 6, 2016, which would put it squarely in competition with Superman vs. Batman. Right now, Marvel has an unannounced movie set for this date.

http://io9.com/does-the-choice-of-wr...-ra-1514602235

[Broadbent]

Sooooo Thor 3 has been confirmed with scriptwriting duties being shuffled around for Craig Kyle and Christopher Yost, both veterans of comic book writing. Nothing's been confirmed as far as overall storyline but there's a possibility the movie will entail Ragnarok (please include Sutur and Amora!) There are rumors that the movie will be released on May 6, 2016, which would put it squarely in competition with Superman vs. Batman. Right now, Marvel has an unannounced movie set for this date.

http://io9.com/does-the-choice-of-wr...-ra-1514602235

I hope they kill Natalie Portman. My only complaint with the MCU is not enough death(All we got was the fake Coulsen death). Maybe Black Widow or Hawkeye will get the axe in Phase 3.

[orestes]

I hope they kill Natalie Portman. My only complaint with the MCU is not enough death(All we got was the fake Coulsen death). Maybe Black Widow or Hawkeye will get the axe in Phase 3.

Neeeevvvvvvvver! We need a Black Widow origin story.

[Broadbent]

Neeeevvvvvvvver! We need a Black Widow origin story.

But that'd be perfect. They could end her story in say Avengers 2. And then go back and give her a solo movie to tell the beginning.

[orestes]

I could see them doing a Black Widow stand-alone movie after the current Captain America movie because her history and Bucky's is so intwined.

[gorast]

All Hail the King is out today, as part of Thor 2's digital release.

Spoiler: The Mandarin has been real this whole time - it's just not Killian or Trevor Slattery. I'd say "that'll shut the fanboys up", but of course it won't. "IF HE EXISTED THEN WHY WASN'T HE THE VILLAIN?????"

Aside from that, what a genius One-Shot. These have just been getting better and better. Not to mention Justin Hammer at the end. Classic.

[orestes]

Paul Bettany cast as Vision. http://variety.com/2014/film/news/pa...on-1201090635/

[cicatriz]

man i was banking on the clairvoyant turning out to be the vision or someone that eventually evolves into the vision

[Deadpool]

Paul Bettany cast as Vision. http://variety.com/2014/film/news/pa...on-1201090635/

Wow! Very unexpected but very welcome news. So curious how Bettany and Spader will shine through their characters...

[marodi]

Paul Bettany cast as Vision. http://variety.com/2014/film/news/pa...on-1201090635/

*dies*

Oh man the possibilities. Stark/Jarvis/Ultron/Vision is definitely a thing, all that's left is how it's going to play out.

man i was banking on the clairvoyant turning out to be the vision or someone that eventually evolves into the vision

My little theory about the Clairvoyant is that he's the Leader, especially since Couslon named-dropped Blonsky in the last episode.

[orestes]

Let's just hope things don't get weird between Vision and the Scarlet Witch.

[gorast]

If the Clairvoyant turns out to be The Leader I would be ecstatic, because that brings Incredible Hulk deeper into the MCU and gives the show a much stronger tie to the films - win-win!

Is Tim Blake Nelson a feasible TV actor, though?

[AgentofChaos]

Did anybody watch All Hail The King?


I won't go into spoilers exactly but let's just say it tried very hard to appease those upset at IM3. Being one of those people, I'd say it worked to a degree. It was a nice enough gesture, but ultimately it didn't change all that much in terms of the MCU that will likely be explored in the next 3-5 years. I don't know. Even the thought of trying to fix said mistake in IM4 (or 5?) seems a bit redundant now. At least there are some clear cut routes they could go down with some decent potential as far as I can see, if they ever bother to get that far.

It was a very fun short though, possibly my favorite one to date. Kingsley is aces. Oh, and stay after the credits for an even better cameo!

[ziltoid]

This is all I can find, unfortunately it keeps cutting out every 5 seconds:


Edit: I guess they uploaded it like that so it wouldn't get picked up by the software they use to scan for copyright material.