Random NIN Thoughts

[Deepvoid]

There are some killer tracks on With Teeth but you do get the impression that he played it safe.
Most of the choruses on that album pack a punch but it has in my book the worst one of them all with the title-song. I'm still trying to figure out what went through his mind.
Like when they listened to the first mix of it, I'm having a hard time believing everyone sitting around the mixing board and be like "Holy crap that sounds fucking awesome!".
No it doesn't.

Anyways, I can't believe you guys went through so many posts on the subject that his Tapeworm. I guess it's an inevitable cycle.
At least it made me feel like I was 20 again.

[billpulsipher]

Its 2015 and we are talking about Tapeworm....Things are awfully slow in NIN land these days....

and in my humble opinion, YZ is the best/boldest artistic statement he has made post Fragile....

[Khrz]

and in my humble opinion, YZ is the best/boldest artistic statement he has made post Fragile....

I admit, I lol'd.

[cahernandez]

Its 2015 and we are talking about Tapeworm....Things are awfully slow in NIN land these days....

and in my humble opinion, YZ is the best/boldest artistic statement he has made post Fragile....

I actually agree here...not necessarily with "best" but definitely with "bold". Either YZ or The Social Network for the boldest statement after The Fragile. What do you guys think?

[avesjohn]

On the subject of a completely different era of Trent's music, here's my random NIN thought: am I the only one who's reminded of the aliens in Mars Attacks! ("ack-ack!") by the background noises in "Wish", particularly during the bridge?

[FernandoDante]

Seriously, what the fuck were these people doing between 2001-2004 that they couldn't just finish the Tapeworm stuff.

Wasn't Trent going sober around that time?

I actually agree here...not necessarily with "best" but definitely with "bold". Either YZ or The Social Network for the boldest statement after The Fragile. What do you guys think?

Best since TDS.


And my guess is that the Tapeworm material was about as good or slightly inferior to the first Puscifer album.

[Dr Channard]

I’ve always looked at With Teeth as comprehensive work, yet having a feel all its own. Many of the previously established nin themes are here, introspective, just delivered less bleak and more bravado. Musically mostly more accessible to the average listener. Strong hooks, great vocal work, it sounds like a band instead of a guy sitting behind a synthesizer. NIN was due for a great rock album and With Teeth was a perfect fit. If you like getting your rock-on once in a while, what’s not to like here?

I actually agree here...not necessarily with "best" but definitely with "bold". Either YZ or The Social Network for the boldest statement after The Fragile. What do you guys think?

Yeah, Trent had a big vision for YZ. Too bad things didn’t work out the way he planed, the ceiling could have been much higher. It would have been interesting to see.

[cahernandez]

I’ve always looked at With Teeth as comprehensive work, yet having a feel all its own. Many of the previously established nin themes are here, introspective, just delivered less bleak and more bravado. Musically mostly more accessible to the average listener. Strong hooks, great vocal work, it sounds like a band instead of a guy sitting behind a synthesizer. NIN was due for a great rock album and With Teeth was a perfect fit. If you like getting your rock-on once in a while, what’s not to like here?



Yeah, Trent had a big vision for YZ. Too bad things didn’t work out the way he planed, the ceiling could have been much higher. It would have been interesting to see.

For me With Teeth is the best NIN album, for the things you list there. That's why I made the difference between "bold" and "best".

[eversonpoe]

There are some killer tracks on With Teeth but you do get the impression that he played it safe.
Most of the choruses on that album pack a punch but it has in my book the worst one of them all with the title-song. I'm still trying to figure out what went through his mind.
Like when they listened to the first mix of it, I'm having a hard time believing everyone sitting around the mixing board and be like "Holy crap that sounds fucking awesome!".
No it doesn't.

it's funny, i feel like ALL of this should be being discussed in the Controversial NIN Opinions thread...oh well!

anyway, i really don't understand the hate "With Teeth" (the song) gets. it's got such a unique feel, a killer bassline, super weird drumming, and it was one of the first songs, if not the first song where trent did the insanely quiet bridge back into a super loud explosion of awesomeness. it doesn't even bother me the way he sings "a-with-a-teeth-uh" because it WORKS in the context of the song. :: shrug ::

[seasonsinthesky]

i really don't understand the hate "With Teeth" (the song) gets. ... it was one of the first songs, if not the first song where trent did the insanely quiet bridge back into a super loud explosion of awesomeness.

c'mon now, "Suck" and "Mr. Self Destruct" and "The Day the World Went Away" and "The Big Come Down" and "10 Miles High" and "Starfuckers, Inc." had been out for years at that point (with the first two in particular using the same exact technique to the letter!). it was already a trope, like the sudden cutoff ending.

(it would later be used on "The Four of Us Are Dying" and "Demon Seed" and "The Good Soldier" and "Various Methods of Escape" though i grant a lot of these examples have some alternate methodologies compared to the fairly straightforward cuts of WT that basically make it sound like a whole other song shoved in the middle.)

[BenAkenobi]

I drool over evry part of the Tetsuo theme, but Pilgrimage is just meh for me...

I know that tastes differ, but this quote literally hurts to read.

[Khrz]

That's a bit like comparing Somewhat Damaged and The Great Destroyer in my opinion, @Volband ...

[jmtd]

the insanely quiet bridge back into a super loud explosion of awesomeness.

that's pretty much the only reason I don't listen to it much. I turn up the pre-bridge bit to hear the intricacies, and then the post-bridge bit blows my eardrums. I might try compressing it a bit and seeing if I can tolerate it more that way.

[EndlessLoveless]

Yes, all the love..., love is...., the line...., besides you...., right where... and home=some of nins best songs. Just realizing now those are some long song names. Looking back now, WT still has some really really strong songs. Some of his best. And at the time, with all the build up, i thought it was the best. But looking back now, i really never listen to the collecter or getting smaller. I still dont consider them filler. They each have at least one really good part in them. (The collecter is the chorus and outro, and getting smaller is the breakdown with that ambient noise fading in into the final jam)

I still like the album version of THTF too.

[eversonpoe]

c'mon now, "Suck" and "Mr. Self Destruct" and "The Day the World Went Away" and "The Big Come Down" and "10 Miles High" and "Starfuckers, Inc." had been out for years at that point (with the first two in particular using the same exact technique to the letter!). it was already a trope, like the sudden cutoff ending.

(it would later be used on "The Four of Us Are Dying" and "Demon Seed" and "The Good Soldier" and "Various Methods of Escape" though i grant a lot of these examples have some alternate methodologies compared to the fairly straightforward cuts of WT that basically make it sound like a whole other song shoved in the middle.)

shit, you're right. i guess the big difference between those earlier examples and WT is the EXTREME volume difference, and the fact that there's no build-up back into the loud part. it literally just DROPS down, and then EXPLODES back up in volume/intensity.

[Halo Infinity]

c'mon now, "Suck" and "Mr. Self Destruct" and "The Day the World Went Away" and "The Big Come Down" and "10 Miles High" and "Starfuckers, Inc." had been out for years at that point (with the first two in particular using the same exact technique to the letter!). it was already a trope, like the sudden cutoff ending.

I also thought that Gave Up could be included in that list. That part of With Teeth also reminded me of Gave Up when I first listened to it, and it still does.

(it would later be used on "The Four of Us Are Dying" and "Demon Seed" and "The Good Soldier" and "Various Methods of Escape" though i grant a lot of these examples have some alternate methodologies compared to the fairly straightforward cuts of WT that basically make it sound like a whole other song shoved in the middle.)

That's exactly why all of those songs became instant favorites of mine, and why I've enjoyed those parts just as much in the live versions, or even more depending on the song, as I actually prefer the live version of With Teeth just a little bit more. It certainly doesn't stop me from appreciating the studio versions for what they are and as they are though.

[Hazekiah]

Back on the subject of Tapeworm for a moment, it's worth noting that some of Tommy Victor's contributions to the project wound up on Antichrist Superstar.

Aside from "Vacant" that's pretty much all we know FOR SURE has actually surfaced anywhere, right?

Therapy? are awesome. You should go post that story on their website right now. They'd die laughing, too

I actually DID tell it to them!

They played Chicago in 2001 for Shameless and I hung out with them till about 5 a.m. afterward, drinking Chartreuse and popping four-leaf clover green ecstasy. It was pretty awesome! They got a big kick out of the story...but no one died, thankfully.

I've been registered at their site since forever, btw.

:)

[Harry Seaward]

Aside from "Vacant" that's pretty much all we know FOR SURE has actually surfaced anywhere, right?

Potions "Deliverance mix" (M. Keenan, T. Reznor, M. Mitchell)

Ok. Let's use an APC album as an example. eMOTIVe. APC did a song called "Imagine." If you view the credits for the song you'll find various bits of info. Generally speaking the writers name appears in parenthesis next to the track. The performer info may or may not be listed in the album credits. If you see performer info it may be broken down to instruments. For example... "Billy Howerdel - Guitars and Back-up Vocals. Josh Freese - Drums and percussion, etc... Or it may be a given that the people who performed on this project/album/track are the band in question. So it will just say "B Howerdel - guitars, Josh Freese - drums, M J Keenan - vocals, etc... But Writing credits are different. Next to "Imagine" you'll see the name John Lennon. Because he wrote the song. You may want to sit down for the next bit. Ready? John Lennon didn't perform or sing or play on the APC version of "Imagine." He didn't produce it, direct it, co-produce it, or grab us Latte's during the recording of it. Why? Because he's dead. he just wrote it. And we performed a version of it. If you visit the Project Credits of this site now, you'll start to see what we mean. Hope that helps.

2 conclude if i may. If u HATE Potions, hate US not Trent. We wrote it together, but PUSCIFER produced it. It was my wedding present 2 him.

[sheepdean]

Back on the subject of Tapeworm for a moment, it's worth noting that some of Tommy Victor's contributions to the project wound up on Antichrist Superstar.

Aside from "Vacant" that's pretty much all we know FOR SURE has actually surfaced anywhere, right?

In addition to Potions, Convict Colony by Saul Williams has the drums and Danny has implied that some TW ended up on score work.

[Volband]

This is fantastic, because those WT songs are definitely ones that I would put in the filler category, and I would NEVER put those Fragile tracks in the filler category (for many of the reasons @eversonpoe covered). We're all such beautiful unique snowflakes!

This has to be a mockery. THTF as filler?! That song is commercially the most well-perceived song of the post TF NIN era and you can call it shit, sell-out, worst NIN song ever, anything but filler. A filler track is something that's put together for the sake of having +1 song on the album. THTF is exactly the like of song which gets filler tracks around it.

Personally I not only think With Teeth is the best record from Trent, but it pretty much ensured NIN will live on. I did not have the With teeth experience first-hand back in 2005, but I know the circumstances of it's arrival. TF could not live up to the hype commercially and even some fans shat on it for starfuckers, or the - in their eye - fillers. Trent also disappeared and 6 fucking years passed (well, less if you count it from the end of the last Fragility show, but I heard he was in a pretty shitty shape during that tour), there was no way he could live off by the fans he got with TDS, he had to catch the new generation's attention. I mean, I was probably still sucking at something when Woodstock happened, haha.

To me it's the most accessible record from NIN, while still maintaining it's... NINness? It's just a collection of a bunch of good NIN tracks. No story to tell, no intermezzo, no "if you put this in for 2 hours and lay back, you will get the whole experience!", nope. Here's a great track. And here's another. And another... It still has the angst, the desperation, the longing for something/someone, the "dancyness", the lyrics (if you like Trent's lyrics, which I do). The only thing it's missing are the noises I guess, I love when he goes nuts with distortions and making 200 instruments playing at once.
I don't mind the commercialized feel either, I love that Trent wasn't a pussy (yes, in other's eye he was exactly being one) and had a reality check. Yeah, the guys and girls in fishnet were probably protesting for a TDS part 2, and it was totally not cool for them that Trent made THTF, not to mention he had "Love" in one of his track's name, which is totally not cool. Trent always had a great grip on how things have been changing in music and he managed to deliver every time. Does the original PHM sounds kinda funny today? It surely is, but I'm sure our parents rocked their pants to those songs, because it was THE shit at the time. Would anyone at 1995 thought "man, this guy will totally release an electronic-heavy album one day with some sick beats!"? I doubt it.
Back to THTF a bit more; it's like the new Starfuckers, except it actually sticked in the setlists. I'm really curious about his view on Starfuckers, because it shares a lot with THTF (still actual, great live track, both of them seems to be liked from the newer NINs fan), yet it is absolutely neglected. What made him think "man, fuck this song."

Anyway, if there's even the slightest argument whether Complication or The Hand That Feeds is more closer to the filler category, there is absolutely zero reason to even have that argument, because this shows not mere clash in opinions, but two whole different worlds.

I know that tastes differ, but this quote literally hurts to read.

That's a bit like comparing Somewhat Damaged and The Great Destroyer in my opinion, @Volband...

Wait, what did I say? I don't even get the example, because I wouldn't bat an eye if someone would pick one of those songs over another. I love both of them, TGD only sucks if you listen to it with shitty earphones.

So many landmines here!

it's funny, i feel like ALL of this should be being discussed in the Controversial NIN Opinions thread...oh well!

anyway, i really don't understand the hate "With Teeth" (the song) gets. it's got such a unique feel, a killer bassline, super weird drumming, and it was one of the first songs, if not the first song where trent did the insanely quiet bridge back into a super loud explosion of awesomeness. it doesn't even bother me the way he sings "a-with-a-teeth-uh" because it WORKS in the context of the song. :: shrug ::

Hah, WIth Teeth (song) used to be my most hated NIN song ever, I constantly dissed it here on ETS. But at a certain period in my life it really resonated with me, so I'm cool with it now. Not a great fan, but definitely not hiding from friends anymore.

[BenAkenobi]

... not to mention he had "Love" in one of his track's name, which is totally not cool...

Two tracks!

and I apologize for saying a sentence hurts to read, it's all subjective. But at the same time i like to be able to point to a nin track and say "boo-hoo", i take no shame in that. my feeling towards "the bullet man" is irrational, the very idea that Trent would be a composer for japanese b-movie is unbelievable. maybe later i'll come in terms with it, maybe in afterlife, but not now.

[Volband]

Two tracks!

and I apologize for saying a sentence hurts to read, it's all subjective. But at the same time i like to be able to point to a nin track and say "boo-hoo", i take no shame in that. my feeling towards "the bullet man" is irrational, the very idea that Trent would be a composer for japanese b-movie is unbelievable. maybe later i'll come in terms with it, maybe in afterlife, but not now.

I'm fine with you loving Pilgrimage, or hating on the Tetsuo track, to every non NIN lover, both of those tracks are awful, unlistenable piece of shits anyway.

And um, I liked that movie. Imo the first one was even more fucked up, and if you are not into black/white movies, you'd never have the chance to experience Tetsuo otherwise. To this day I'M not entirely sure what the fuck I watched, but hey, it was cool!

[BRoswell]

the very idea that Trent would be a composer for japanese b-movie is unbelievable.

"Composer" is a bit of a stretch. As far as I know, he was only asked to contribute a single track to the film. It wasn't like the work he and Atticus have done for David Fincher. Also, say what you will about them, but the Tetsuo films have quite the cult following, and Trent is obviously a big fan of them, so creating an end credits track for one of them does make sense.

Also also, "Theme For..." is probably one of my favorite tracks Trent has ever done. It's beautiful, haunting, and terrifying.

[howdidislipinto]

This has to be a mockery. THTF as filler?! That song is commercially the most well-perceived song of the post TF NIN era and you can call it shit, sell-out, worst NIN song ever, anything but filler. A filler track is something that's put together for the sake of having +1 song on the album. THTF is exactly the like of song which gets filler tracks around it.

I was actually talking about The Collector/Getting Smaller (and what the hell, throw Love Is Not Enough and the title track on the list), as those are the songs the person I was responded to listed as potential filler. And I stand by that. The definition of filler is the songs you'd be fine with skipping on a record, and those definitely qualify. THTF is fine, I might skip it on the record but I NEVER get tired of it live, it always works for me, like HLAH.

And while I think you make some interesting points, as I mentioned, my dislike of With Teeth has nothing to do with Fragile-like expectations -- I loved the album at the time. It just has the exact opposite affect that every other NIN record has ever had on me... I find it less interesting as time goes on, instead of MORE interesting.

It doesn't hurt that NIN's post-With Teeth albums have only gotten better and better. With Teeth just sounds the most "of its time" and irrelevant (and honestly, "safe") to me. I don't even mean "safe" as in mainstream, because I LOVE Trent's pop sensibilities -- just safe as in unchallenging for all involved.

[EndlessLoveless]

If only for the quality of the final 3 tracks and them blending together, With Teeth is essential NIN listening. Or even All the love in the world being track 1. I remember being shocked that thats how the new NIN album started. It was awesome. I have very fond memories of the build up to that album and finally hearing it. It may skew my opinion of it a little.

[howdidislipinto]

If only for the quality of the final 3 tracks and them blending together, With Teeth is essential NIN listening. Or even All the love in the world being track 1. I remember being shocked that thats how the new NIN album started. It was awesome. I have very fond memories of the build up to that album and finally hearing it. It may skew my opinion of it a little.

I agree that the beginning and the trilogy at the end are BY FAR the best parts of With Teeth, and up there with the very best NIN moments. But it should be pointed out that the way you phrased that still sort of implies that between that great beginning and end, there's some filler.

[BenAkenobi]

I'm fine with you loving Pilgrimage...

It's not about you! It's about trying to comprehend other people's appreciation of "Theme...", which i don't hate, hate is a wrong word.
It's not about "if you are not into black/white movies" either. It's about feeling embarrassment for Trent, same as many felt at last Grammy show.
OK, let's move on

[BRoswell]

It's about feeling embarrassment for Trent, same as many felt at last Grammy show.

What's embarrassing about it? Like I said, the film itself isn't for everyone, but the track is solid in my opinion, and a great precursor to the score work that he and Atticus would start doing just a short time later.

[seasonsinthesky]

Also also, "Theme For..." is probably one of my favorite tracks Trent has ever done. It's beautiful, haunting, and terrifying.

same. ain't gonna stand for no Theme bashing around here! same with "Pilgrimage!" they are the ultimate grower songs from the whole catalog.

now, if you wanna bash "Underneath It All..."

[jmtd]

From the man himself:

"twelve good punches in the face -- no fillers, no instrumentals, just straight to the point"

QED