The little things that piss you off

[Sallos]

Some men don't know how to properly court women, they end up being too nice, push over, and lacking masculinity. When women disregard these men as possible mating material, due to lack of attraction, they end up in the friendzone, and then are used for a variety of purposes, from validation, emotional tampoon to helping study for exams. These men, not knowing any better, think that these actions are part of the courtship, when in fact it only diminishes the possibility of a relationship. They don't think they are entitled to sex because they were nice or helped her study for exams, they think thats the way to get under a girls pants.

[Sallos]

It's hardly a myth. It totally exists. I can tell you I don't feel entitled to anything but it's disapponting when you're trying to build toward a relationship and get shot down with such a reason. I LIKE and PREFER to be friends BEFORE I start dating someone. It's probably one of the bigger reasons I'm single. That and this face and body of mine
And yes, some girls are just fucking evil and will milk this for all it's worth just as there are douchey dudes who just are nice because they wanna' fuck.
Regardless of any of these three versions, the "friendzone" exists.

Never befriend a woman you want to have sex with. Be frontal about your intentions, it shows confidence. Regarding your body and face, for instance you can hit the gym and with a proper diet, dedication and discipline you'll achieve a great body, believe me. As for the face, unlike women we men are lucky, usually when we grow a beard, or a stubble we can disguise our uglyness, or try improving your haircut, it can also work wonders. Then there's the wardrobe...anyway i could go on, but this is material for awhole nother thread.

[Swykk]

I'm doing all those things. Well, most of them. My problem with my body isn't so much being overweight (I've lost 25lbs in the last 4 months, hoping to get to 50)...my problems are my body is sort of permanently broken due to childhood cancer after effects. I'm totally self deprecating.

[Sarah K]

He's adorable. He's just being surly.

[allegro]

Who said anything about complaining? I actually think it's a good term to describe a relationship dynamic, in which, mosts cases, men make a fool of themselves.

I don't understand any of this, either. I was in three very good platonic friendships with guys (I'm female) and I never implied that it was anything more than friendships. And, these situations, said guys eventually professed their love for me, and it was very uncomfortable, terrible, I had to tell them that I did not have feelings for them in that way, which was very difficult for me to do, but what was I supposed to do? LIE? Pretend to love them? We had really good, platonic, close friendships, I never ever ever implied that it was anything more than that, ever, and I never did anything that "led them on." I never used the term "friend zone." But, in one case, the friend never spoke to me again because he was really pissed at me. In another case, the friendship died a natural death. In another, the guy discovered he was gay, so no harm there. Are people pissed at the term, or the concept? I don't get it. The end result for me is that I didn't wanna be friends with guys anymore.

edit: "tampoon" hahahahaha that's so Frank Zappa

[elevenism]

I don't understand any of this, either. I was in three very good platonic friendships with guys (I'm female) and I never implied that it was anything more than friendships. And, these situations, said guys eventually professed their love for me, and it was very uncomfortable, terrible, I had to tell them that I did not have feelings for them in that way, which was very difficult for me to do, but what was I supposed to do? LIE? Pretend to love them? We had really good, platonic, close friendships, I never ever ever implied that it was anything more than that, ever, and I never did anything that "led them on." I never used the term "friend zone." But, in one case, the friend never spoke to me again because he was really pissed at me. In another case, the friendship died a natural death. In another, the guy discovered he was gay, so no harm there. Are people pissed at the term, or the concept? I don't get it. The end result for me is that I didn't wanna be friends with guys anymore.

i dated this girl for a little while in 2000 or so and it didn't work out, but we became SUPER close friends.
We did sleep together a couple of times over the years but it was 99.99% platonic, and we had established that we would never be together again.

Well, when she found out i was getting married, she told me that she was dying of some exotic disease and i had to come spend one last weekend with her.
When i called her bluff, she decided that i was an awful bastard who had broken her heart and that we were supposed to be together forever and such, which just seemed utterly insane to me.
The end result of that situation was that i lost a very close friend, and like you allegro, i don't really want to be friends with girls.
Also, i can honestly say that i've been attracted to damn near every single female friend i've ever had at some point or another.
I know some people have great close friends of the opposite sex, but i'm convinced that it's a recipe for someone to get hurt more than half the time.

These things make me glad i'm married.

[playwithfire]

No, @The_Prowler fucking nailed it. The concept of the "friend zone" needs to fuck off forever.

Attraction happens, complicated relationships happen, I have tons of successful male friendships. It's fine.

I will always question people who are like "I have enough friends, I want a girlfriend." But fuck, you aren't my friend, so who cares.

Other than that? Yeah, life is messy and sometimes feelings aren't shared. Oh well, you have a solid friend out of it. Hooray. Maybe not, maybe you'll drift apart. Life goes on.

You are entitled to nothing, and people have a right to be not attracted to you. Girls are not machines you put friendship coins into until sex falls out.

The word "friendzone" is so obnoxious and entitled and terrible.

[elevenism]

i've never said friendzone and i've never heard anyone i know say friendzone, just to be clear

[playwithfire]

Because you apparently are and know adults.

[Sarah K]

Girls are not machines you put friendship coins into until sex falls out.

Ahahaha. I love you.

[allegro]

You are entitled to nothing, and people have a right to be not attracted to you.

Girls are not machines you put friendship coins into until sex falls out.

Or until they fall in looooooooove with you.

Okay, so nobody is *blaming* the person who isn't attracted to or not in love with for this thing, right? This sounded like some kind of "the bitch / bastard deliberately lured me into the friendship just to fuck me over when I fell in love when him/her" or some kind of crap.

Like @elevenism , I never heard of the term "friend zone" or "friendzone" when it HAPPENED to me, but that doesn't mean that it I didn't get stunned by the "fuck you, you didn't fall in love with me, too, you bitch" (in so many words) shit enough that now I don't even wanna be friends with dudes, anymore.

[Sallos]

Noticing a trend, women denying friendzone and guys corroborating it, not just here but in general. Also, some women themselves also get friendzoned. Though the opposite is more common.

[allegro]

Noticing a trend, women denying friendzone and guys corroborating it, not just here but in general. Also, some women themselves also get friendzoned. Though the opposite is more common.

I'm not denying it, I had to tell guy friends that I only wanted to be friends (hence, the guys got "friendzoned"). I didn't use that TERM. I think perhaps the use of the TERM is what people are objecting to, here? The sense of entitlement, being pissed off or butthurt about unrequited feelings or rejected sexual advances, and using that term to describe it? Or, maybe it's the concept of being butthurt about the whole thing, I dunno. The whole thing is stupid, get over it and grow up.

In my case, it wasn't about sex, but maybe it's like this:

[Sallos]

Well from the cases of man that got friendzone that i know, they weren't pissed beacuse the girl refused to give them sex or a relationship, but because they were hoping she would somehow realize she had feelings for him all along, and how in the end he'd get picked over the other guy who treats her like a piece of meat (meaning behaves the opposite of what the friendzoned nice guy did)

[Sarah K]

People aren't denying that men and women are friends. That is perfectly normal, adult behavior.

This "friendzone" shit usually goes like this(using male and female for my example, but I'm sure it happens within different orientations as well) :

Man and woman are friends
Man decides he wants to be more than friends(this can mean friends with benefits, dating, or becoming monogamous)
Woman says that she is not interested in the man like that
Man gets upset and goes on about BUT I AM SO NIIIIIICE
Man gets upset because woman isn't attracted to him(this can be physically, personality, anything)
Man asks WHY NOT and brings up the other men that the woman is dating or has dated in the past
Woman explains that has nothing to do with their friendship
Man gets upset, says something about women only liking assholes, and then cuts off the friendship.

You're correct. Sometimes women develop feelings for their male friends, and the men don't return the feelings. I've had it happen three times in my life. But you know what? I'm still friends with all of them. Everyone is entitled to date people who they are attracted to. People aren't obligated to date anyone.

[Sallos]

Ok so we seem to agree that this indeed happens, so why call friendzone a myth or not liking the term, what am i missing here?

[Digital Twilight]

I think you summed it up pretty well there Sarah. That's usually what it comes down to. Guy wants sex, guy can't get sex, guy throws his toys out of the pram.

[Sarah K]

Ok so we seem to agree that this indeed happens, so why call friendzone a myth or not liking the term, what am i missing here?

Because it is saying that a woman was leading you on, was emotionally manipulating, etc etc etc.

What these tantrums usually boil down to are men want to fuck their "friends". When they discover that the woman is not attracted to them, they get all angry for no reason. They then go on about how nice they are.

They were only being nice to get laid. The woman was not the one who was being manipulative in these situations. A woman can't "put" you anywhere. She can not be attracted to you, but that doesn't mean that your friendship has to change. I have ALL KINDS of friends who I would never find myself attracted to in any way besides friendship. And I know that tons of people feel that way about me, too.

Whining that a woman "put" you somewhere is just really childish and silly.

[allegro]

in the end he'd get picked over the other guy who treats her like a piece of meat (meaning behaves the opposite of what the friendzoned nice guy did)

That's usually a bunch of crap; the rejected friend is often just as much of a shithead as the guy the friend is dating, but the rejected friend is delusional. Actually, the rejected friend is a bigger shithead because the rejected friend is a shitty friend because he's butthurt and treats the female friend like shit for "rejecting" him and feeling like he's entitled to her feelings that she doesn't have; he's not a nice guy; he's a shithead.

A nice guy would be happy for his friend. A shithead would be butthurt and treat his friend like shit.

Actually, I don't want to just say "him" or "guy," here, because it appears that @elevenism had this experience with a few females, too.

[Sallos]

Because it is saying that a woman was leading you on, was emotionally manipulating, etc etc etc.

What these tantrums usually boil down to are men want to fuck their "friends". When they discover that the woman is not attracted to them, they get all angry for no reason. They then go on about how nice they are.

They were only being nice to get laid. The woman was not the one who was being manipulative in these situations. A woman can't "put" you anywhere. She can not be attracted to you, but that doesn't mean that your friendship has to change. I have ALL KINDS of friends who I would never find myself attracted to in any way besides friendship. And I know that tons of people feel that way about me, too.

Whining that a woman "put" you somewhere is just really childish and silly.

But then again that also happens, there are women that know a male friend has second intentions yet unlike allegro, are not upfront about it and lead thmen on, that maybe someday under the right circumstances he might get a chance, and sadly they fall for it.

[Sallos]

That's usually a bunch of crap; the rejected friend is often just as much of a shithead as the guy the friend is dating, but the rejected friend is delusional. Actually, the rejected friend is a bigger shithead because the rejected friend is a shitty friend because he's butthurt and treats the female friend like shit for "rejecting" him and feeling like he's entitled to her feelings that she doesn't have; he's the bigger of the shitheads.

We had different friendzone experinces because, like i said the men i know that got friendzoned where not pissed at anyone but themselves.

[Sarah K]

I honestly don't even understand what leading someone on means anymore. Like, they tell you that they might sleep with you sometime in the future or what? What is viewed as leading someone on?

[playwithfire]

Because it puts the responsibility on the object of affection, which is stupid.

And it makes being friends sound lame, which is stupid.

And it's frequently the word of choice for whiny and self entitled jerks (not specifying any gender), which is stupid.

[allegro]

We had different friendzone experinces because, like i said the men i know that got friendzoned where not pissed at anyone but themselves.

Well, that's a much more adult way of handling it, for sure.

[playwithfire]

Also, I've had friends develop feelings for me and developed feelings for friends and WE'RE ALL STILL FINE. If the friendship is worthwhile and you're not at some sort of heartbreaking I LOVE YOU I CAN'T BE AROUND YOU point, you move on.

The word is TERRIBLE.

[Sallos]

I honestly don't even understand what leading someone on means anymore. Like, they tell you that they might sleep with you sometime in the future or what? What is viewed as leading someone on?

for example, Inviting a guy over for a movie, showing signs of interest, cuddle, and then rejecting sex when the guy starts making the moves, mentioning that right now they're not ready for something serious, that they just gone through a difficult relationship and what not.

[allegro]

But then again that also happens, there are women that know a male friend has second intentions yet unlike allegro, are not upfront about it and lead them on, that maybe someday under the right circumstances he might get a chance, and sadly they fall for it.

I don't understand what "lead them on" means. Or "up front about it." If people start out as friends, UNLESS THEY'RE FUCKING EVERY NIGHT, in which case maybe you need to have a conversation wherein you say "hey, I ain't into relationships and I probably ain't gonna be so let's be clear up front, okay?" and then if the other person falls in love, then it's at their own risk, OTHERWISE you can't go into friendships with the opposite sex thinking WOW, MAYBE THEY'LL SUDDENLY FALL IN LOVE WITH ME LIKE IN THE MOVIES!

Sure, that happens. But, IT'S JUST AS LIKELY NOT TO HAPPEN. Probably MORE likely not to happen. But "leading them on?" To what? Honey, it's easy to get sex without friendship, trust me. Lots and lots of it. There's absolutely NO reason you need friendship to have great sex; in fact, the friendship thing can fuck up sex. So, what exactly would he/she be "leading you" into? Rejection? Oh, life is just FULL of that, so y'all better get used to it, 'cause you're gonna get lots and lots of it until you die, and if you blame every single person place and thing for leading YOU into it, you're a sorry pathetic state of a human being.

So, sex on a first date is absolutely to be expected for everyone, now, eh? Even in the land of AIDS and herpes? Just gotta put out, because he bought dinner and drinks? Don't want him to think you "lead him on?" Okay, just gotta be clear, here. Cuddling means sex is expected. This sounds like the prelude to rape or something, egad.

[Sarah K]

I mean, cuddling isn't an invitation for sex. If I was in that situation where I had feelings for the other person and they did not, I would tell them that I understood, but the physical interaction would have to stop, as it made things hard. The end. Doesn't have to impact the friendship, and there is nothing to get upset about.

[playwithfire]

FRIENDS NEVER CUDDLE

caps

[allegro]

FRIENDS NEVER CUDDLE

caps

Well, if they're fuckbuddies sometimes they kinda do ...