Marilyn Manson - Born Villain

[Jinsai]

The first and third examples do not display subjectivity. I think what must have happened is that you confused the subjective vs. objective argument with some sort of fact vs. opinion argument, unaware of the difference. That happens, I guess.

Did you miss the tags that designated which were opinions (subjective) and which were facts (objective)? Facts are objective, opinions are subjective. Of course, the distinction gets more complex than that, but please, tell me where I categorized something incorrectly. Maybe, while trying to figure that out, you'll get the point I was making.

The reason the first and fourth examples didn't exhibit subjectivity is weird huh, given that I POINTED OUT THAT THEY WEREN'T EXAMPLES OF SUBJECTIVITY, YOU MORON. Also, that first point, the one that you agree isn't subjective, is my major complaint with Harry.

Also, point three, which you seem to think isn't subjective actually is. It's a statement that offers an opinion.

Seriously, go back to fucking grade school.

[fillow]

Hey Born Villain! I'm really happy for you and Imma let you finish, but Antichrist Superstar was one of the best albums of all time! OF ALL TIME!

[simonn]

In my opinion Born Villain is without a doubt the best Marilyn Manson album of all time. It picks up right where Mechanical Animals left off. How any of you guys can complain about such a masterpiece is beyond me.

That was pretty funny. Well done you.

[mrvirginia]

I would place Born Villain 5th in Manson's discography personally.

The first 3 are obviously POAAF, ACSS and Mechanical Animals (It's to hard to place these 3 in best-worst order, so I'll just leave them here as these are the best 3 before). Holywood would come next, and then Born Villain. Golden Age would be next, followed by THEOL and finally EMDM at the bottom of the food chain.

I bet alot of people here would argue placing BV above Golden Age, but for me... I just never liked that album, it was too tacky and bizarre for me. I can't stand the songs on there, they are just too fucking weird.

i pretty much agree with this, though i couldn't place a best to worst order on POAAF, ACSS, MA, Holywood or Born Villain. they're all great in their own way.

[Leviathant]

I POINTED OUT THAT THEY WEREN'T EXAMPLES OF SUBJECTIVITY, YOU MORON.

Seriously, go back to fucking grade school.

Hey guys, I heard some weird noises coming from this thread. I'd ask what's going on, but I don't really care. If you're going to start name-calling, take it to the shitlist. If there isn't a shitlist, start one. I'm not saying this is a topic that can be all that detracted from, but -- you're detracting from the topic.

[think i'm a fire engine]

What the hell is going on here.

[Sutekh]

For me...

MA/ACSS
POAFF/HW
EMDM
BV
GAOG
THEOL

I always thought theol and emdm sounded similar... Sort of basic guitar rock, scratchy textures, similar subject matter and vocal delivery. Whats the big gulf between them?
the past 3 sound a bit too similar tbh... And as much as i wanted to believe the second coming of twiggy, THEOL was just a tatty, flabby retread of EMDM.

gaog is fun in places but its shallow as fuck and has that processed nu metal guitar tone. Yeah that comparison might not sit well, but new shit sounds like get yer freak on, use your fist is textbook nu metal anthem and one song has him going on about haters and bitches (or something)

[Sutekh]

Did you miss the tags that designated which were opinions (subjective) and which were facts (objective)? Facts are objective, opinions are subjective. Of course, the distinction gets more complex than that, but please, tell me where I categorized something incorrectly. Maybe, while trying to figure that out, you'll get the point I was making.

The reason the first and fourth examples didn't exhibit subjectivity is weird huh, given that I POINTED OUT THAT THEY WEREN'T EXAMPLES OF SUBJECTIVITY, YOU MORON. Also, that first point, the one that you agree isn't subjective, is my major complaint with Harry.

Also, point three, which you seem to think isn't subjective actually is. It's a statement that offers an opinion.

Seriously, go back to fucking grade school.

You continue this streak of genius by NOT REPLYING TO THE OBVIOUS WIND UP - of course he knows the difference, hes just realised that pretending he doesnt makes you lash out

[antiskum]

[Jinsai]

You continue this streak of genius by NOT REPLYING TO THE OBVIOUS WIND UP - of course he knows the difference, hes just realised that pretending he doesnt makes you lash out

You give him way too much credit, especially since his original post demonstrated that he doesn't understand the concept, but since I don't feel like starting a shitlist to further explain something that most toddlers understand, I'll leave it at that.

[simonn]

Okay, been through the album about 4 times now. IMO it's good stuff up to and including The Flowers of Evil. Then apart from Lay Down and Murderers, it just gets really monotonous. Needed to sequence the album a bit better, as there is a definite a side/b side (think vinyl) feel to it. 6.5/10.

[The Gardener]

Okay, been through the album about 4 times now. IMO it's good stuff up to and including The Flowers of Evil. Then apart from Lay Down and Murderers, it just gets really monotonous. Needed to sequence the album a bit better, as there is a definite a side/b side (think vinyl) feel to it. 6.5/10.

How can you not like "Children of Cain"? besides the fact that it has Chris Vrenna genius all over it the sound is straight from Mechanical Animals.

[Krogan Warlord]

Did you miss the tags that designated which were opinions (subjective) and which were facts (objective)? Facts are objective, opinions are subjective. Of course, the distinction gets more complex than that, but please, tell me where I categorized something incorrectly. Maybe, while trying to figure that out, you'll get the point I was making.

The reason the first and fourth examples didn't exhibit subjectivity is weird huh, given that I POINTED OUT THAT THEY WEREN'T EXAMPLES OF SUBJECTIVITY, YOU MORON. Also, that first point, the one that you agree isn't subjective, is my major complaint with Harry.

Also, point three, which you seem to think isn't subjective actually is. It's a statement that offers an opinion.

Seriously, go back to fucking grade school.

Now you're just being silly. Clearly point one is an example of transitive objectivity and point three is an obvious example of traditional objectivity. I suspect you know this good and well, but are just yanking my chain. If not then it is very ironic that you are the one telling me to go back to school while simultaneously begging me for an education.

[simonn]

How can you not like "Children of Cain"? besides the fact that it has Chris Vrenna genius all over it the sound is straight from Mechanical Animals.

Probably gonna be in the minority here when I say that I'm not a huge MA fan. More Holywood/Grotesque for me. Ashamed to say, bearing in mind where I am, that I've never actually heard Antichrist all the way through yet, didn't realise Trent was involved in it until this week! Thought he started with MA. Will be remedying that over the weekend though.

[Jinsai]

Now you're just being silly. Clearly point one is an example of transitive objectivity and point three is an obvious example of traditional objectivity. I suspect you know this good and well, but are just yanking my chain. If not then it is very ironic that you are the one telling me to go back to school while simultaneously begging me for an education.

I have repeatedly stated that point one is NOT subjective. That means it ISN'T subjective. How can I make this any clearer? I could try to explain why point three (an opinion-based statement which expresses a personal estimation of relative worth) is not objective, but this is getting really tiresome. I hope this helps. That should also help you to understand why calling something "best" is a subjective statement.

[simonn]

I have repeatedly stated that point one is NOT subjective. That means it ISN'T subjective. How can I make this any clearer? I could try to explain why point three (an opinion-based statement which expresses a personal estimation of relative worth) is not objective, but this is getting really tiresome. I hope this helps. That should also help you to understand why calling something "best" is a subjective statement.

I'm going to bang your heads together in a minute! You've already been told. (Lev - not trying to be a moderator, but it's just so boring!) You're not even having a Beatles v Manson conversation anymore, just dicking around talking about grammar. Life's too short.

[nimh]

Just do it. Totally show me what a fool I am, and make me look ridiculous. I don't get why you're stalling. Own me already.

Fuck you krogan. you are a bitch.

[Jinsai]

I'm going to bang your heads together in a minute! You've already been told. (Lev - not trying to be a moderator, but it's just so boring!) You're not even having a Beatles v Manson conversation anymore, just dicking around talking about grammar. Life's too short.

I agree. That's why I said it was getting tiresome. I probably shouldn't have responded, but it's REALLY hard not to. Here, I'm walking away from this, and everyone can get back to talking about the new Marilyn Manson album.

[simonn]

I agree. That's why I said it was getting tiresome. I probably shouldn't have responded, but it's REALLY hard not to. Here, I'm walking away from this, and everyone can get back to talking about the new Marilyn Manson album.

Thank you.

Now then. back to my 'never heard Antichrist before' comment, just listening to it now, and just heard 'Suck, Suck, Suck' in Deformagraphy. Methinks I've been missing out!! Three (new - obv heard BP before) tracks in and I like it...!

And just seen the personnel credits, Robin and Danny...!! God, I'm an arse. Still, better late than never.....

[GibbonBlack]

Thank you.

Now then. back to my 'never heard Antichrist before' comment, just listening to it now, and just heard 'Suck, Suck, Suck' in Deformagraphy. Methinks I've been missing out!! Three (new - obv heard BP before) tracks in and I like it...!

And just seen the personnel credits, Robin and Danny...!! God, I'm an arse. Still, better late than never.....

I'd love to be able to hear that album for the first time again. You've got so many good songs coming your way

[Space Suicide]

Haha, thanks for linking my video.

[Callahan]

Thank you.

Now then. back to my 'never heard Antichrist before' comment, just listening to it now, and just heard 'Suck, Suck, Suck' in Deformagraphy. Methinks I've been missing out!! Three (new - obv heard BP before) tracks in and I like it...!

And just seen the personnel credits, Robin and Danny...!! God, I'm an arse. Still, better late than never.....

Man, you're in for a ride.

To me, this album is similar to TDS. The more you listen to it, the more you'll hear, and the more you will appreciate it. Keep this album on heavy rotation, and you'll love every song.

[nimh]

I wonder if people will think this one is better than AntiChrist or Holywood... i think so. It's his life this time. Remember he lost the girl he loved and it fucked up his head. Takes a while.... listen this time. It is so fucking good.

[Sutekh]

Man, you're in for a ride.

To me, this album is similar to TDS. The more you listen to it, the more you'll hear, and the more you will appreciate it. Keep this album on heavy rotation, and you'll love every song.

Yep, it has the same feel as TDS and broken, lots of layers and the guitars on 1996, title track and reflecting god have that sharp vintage NIN sound, peas in a pod as far as im concerned

[Piko]

Man, you're in for a ride.

To me, this album is similar to TDS. The more you listen to it, the more you'll hear, and the more you will appreciate it. Keep this album on heavy rotation, and you'll love every song.

First time I heard the album, I didn't really like it. It was too much. I had come along a little after Mechanical Animals came out. I had heard nothing before except for Beautiful People and Suck For Your Solution. Dope Show came along so that's where I started. So eventually I decided to work my way down and ACSS creeped me the fuck out. It wasn't at all what I was expecting. I was expecting heavy and something "stranger". But it took me completely by surprise. Eventually (very quickly), it became the best album ever for a few years when I finally started "getting it".

And I agree about TDS. Trent and Co. were all over it and you could tell. So Trent bringing over some of that leftover vibe wasn't so much of a surprise. Worked pretty well too, if you ask me.

[imail724]

Probably gonna be in the minority here when I say that I'm not a huge MA fan. More Holywood/Grotesque for me. Ashamed to say, bearing in mind where I am, that I've never actually heard Antichrist all the way through yet, didn't realise Trent was involved in it until this week! Thought he started with MA. Will be remedying that over the weekend though.

Trent actually didn't have anything to do with MA. His relationship with Manson began with Portrait and ended with Antichrist. Like others have said, I'm really jealous that you get to hear that album for the first time. It truly is a masterpiece and is my second favorite album of all time (TDS and The Fragile being tied for first).

[Max Leo]

For a moment I thought people were comparing BV to TDS, but I guess you were talking about ACSS.

[Babali]

I think Portrait, ACSS and MA are definitely the best albums. Holy Wood is better than Golden Age. Then Eat Me Drink Me, High End of Low and Born Villain. Wow that's like all the albums in the order they were released.

Edit: I must say, though, Born Villain is growing on me like mad. I initially gave it a 71% but I may have to re-assess that. Flowers of Evil is the shit and it reminds me of a Misfits vibe a bit which I've never thought from a Manson song.

[Krogan Warlord]

I have repeatedly stated that point one is NOT subjective. That means it ISN'T subjective. How can I make this any clearer? I could try to explain why point three (an opinion-based statement which expresses a personal estimation of relative worth) is not objective, but this is getting really tiresome. I hope this helps. That should also help you to understand why calling something "best" is a subjective statement.

Of course point one isn't subjective. As I've been saying all along, it's objective. Strange that you would reverse your stance now, after all of this time. Maybe I'm getting through to you after all.

I agree. That's why I said it was getting tiresome. I probably shouldn't have responded, but it's REALLY hard not to. Here, I'm walking away from this, and everyone can get back to talking about the new Marilyn Manson album.

I'm sorry the things that I've taught you have left you feeling tired, but you have to admit that you have learned a lot in the process. I do find quite strange your claims that you are being compelled to post as if against your will. If it's any comfort, I can assure you that I am not manipulating you by playing to your weaker characteristics and leading you around in a pointless argument like a barking dog on a chain. I would never do such a thing, especially to you, my friend.

Also, I'd like to take a moment to complain about the Antichrist Superstar discussion, as this is clearly a Born Villain thread.

[Jinsai]

Of course point one isn't subjective. As I've been saying all along, it's objective. Strange that you would reverse your stance now, after all of this time. Maybe I'm getting through to you after all.

I gave examples of both subjective and objective points, and I noted which was which by writing either FACT or OPINION next to them, in caps, so that even you could figure it out. Obviously, that flew over your head.

Anyway, I've tried to listen to this album again, and I can't make it through it a second time. It's just dull. And that Carly Simon cover is ludicrous.