The Smashing Pumpkins

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

LOL I have never been so UNexcited for a reunion tour in my entire life. It’s not even a true band reunion; anytime you’re doing something like this and using the term “celebrating the songs”, it’s a blatant cash-grab. The fact that they couldn’t even do it correctly makes it even funnier. They’ve already got heaps of bad press with the D’arcy feud, and have unwittingly divided whatever fanbase they have left with it. How do they possibly expect to even come close to filling some of these arenas? Billy’s ego inflates and takes off like a hot air balloon yet again..

At least we have something to watch until the XFL embarrasses itself again next year. We should start a pot on what Billy’s ultimate excuse is going to be for why this will flop miserably..

It will be the fans fault. Or the industry's fault. Or his bandmates/former bandmates fault..It will be anybody's fault except ol Billy boy

[frankie teardrop]

or maybe it'll be great. let's wait and see, huh?

just found the ice cream truck in nyc. and at the moment, i'm finally giving james' second solo album a proper listen, and i'm enjoying it more than i thought i would.

[fillow]

Unless this goes down faster than Zwan did, expect them to headline every other festival in Europe and everywhere else throughout 2019. Even if this tour doesn't sell, the festivals will make up for it.

[halo eighteen]

One thing that will help the tour is a strong supporting act.

hahahaha. I'm sure William thinks he doesn't need a support act.

[neorev]

Well this tour announcement has come and gone, ended up being more like a queef rather than a explosive pants ruining shart it could have been.

Only a Machina reissue can save this.

[Amaro]

Who is playing bass (and keys)? Serious question, because in a promo photo I saw only four sad or angry looking dudes.

[halo eighteen]

Who is playing bass (and keys)? Serious question, because in a promo photo I saw only four sad or angry looking dudes.

Supposedly Jack Bates (Peter Hook's son), who played bass on the 2015 tour. Going by the leaked texts between D'arcy and Billy anyway.

[tremolo]

Yeah, I read that interview. It would have been nice had she been involved, but it's not a huge deal for me. If you read the texts between D'arcy and Billy he comes across as very cordial and eager for her to participate, in any way, even if it was for a few songs like Steven Adler did on GN'R's Not in this Lifetime tour. If she's not there, even if it's for a few selected shows, it's on her.

Those texts are passive-aggression at its finest.

[Bachy]

I’m getting tickets to this. It’s been a dream of mine to see James and Billy back on stage again. D’arcy would have been nice too, but hey, Billy’s a prick and a loon.

[GulDukat]

Those texts are passive-aggression at its finest.

Really? That's not how I read it.

[Amaro]

Supposedly Jack Bates (Peter Hook's son), who played bass on the 2015 tour. Going by the leaked texts between D'arcy and Billy anyway.

Thanks, I haven't been really keeping up with this band till just the other day. I took it upon myself to check out those texts, too...

-________-

Ambiguous Corgan much? Was he actually sidestepping from the beginning that having D'Arcy as the bassist wouldn't actually be the end goal, but still wanted her on board somehow...???

[Prettybrokenspiral]

Really? That's not how I read it.

This is the same scenario as that debate we had about Bush around this time last year, if you recall. There will be fans (like yourself) who will be willing to accept this as a legitimate reunion with James back in the fold. And then you'll have fans (like myself) who see this as a half-assed money-grab that just isn't the real thing. And much like Bush, I'm willing to bet this will ultimately turn into a classic case of a 90s "who cares?" act..

People cite the Gn'R reunion as an example, but remember...they had 25 years of animosity, soap opera drama, album delays and one-off guest appearances to build interest. Not to mention Axl was still selling out tours globally even without Slash and Duff onboard. The fact that Izzy and Adler were still on somewhat-cordial terms and randomly appeared at certain shows added to the fan interest.

Billy has none of that going for him. The last 10 years have seen him living in denial about how little anyone really cares about SP outside of a full classic lineup reunion. He had one shot to do this right and look at what's happened. Total mismanagement from the word go, and now you have a disgruntled ex-member looking to tank the whole thing with tell-all interviews, and doing a pretty swell job of it, from where I sit. Gn'R managed to live up to the quarter-century of drama with a successful tour, but I certainly don't see WPC doing anything close to it. It's telling that he'll be using a stand-in bassist who happens to be the son of another egomaniac who shamelessly cashes in with a Joy Division tribute band and can't understand that his legacy just isn't that important to people.

And like Peter Hook, Billy has only himself to blame for that. So I'm willing to bet by the time all is said and done, the "Shiny and Oh So Bright" tour will just be another WPC whiny and oh so trite endeavor..

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Shadaloo]

So an EP's happening.

[neorev]

@Amaro bingo! @Prettybrokenspiral bingo +1,000,001

[sonic_discord]

One thing that will help the tour is a strong supporting act.

hahahaha. I'm sure William thinks he doesn't need a support act.

Yeah, I was wondering about who possible openers could be earlier. It would ideal if they could secure a good opening band that people have actually heard of and would appeal to fans of SP. OR maybe they could do what I've seen a few other bands (including Cake) do recently where it's billed as "An Evening with [band name here]" and it's one giant 3-hour+ set with an intermission in the middle.

[GulDukat]

Hypothetical question:

D'Arcy and Billy agree to meet to discuss their issues:

Jean Luc Picard is their mediator.

Discuss:

[neorev]

Hypothetical question:

D'Arcy and Billy agree to meet to discuss their issues:

Jean Luc Picard is their mediator.

Discuss:

[Helpmeiaminhell (is now in hell)]

They should get Stephen Malkmus and the Jicks to open..

[thevoid99]

They should get Stephen Malkmus and the Jicks to open..

Now that I would pay good money to see.

[armogi]

@Amaro bingo! @Prettybrokenspiral bingo +1,000,001

Somehow I had a feeling this was going to happen. Ep now, album later, unless all hell breaks loose...
Should be called make it or break it tour!

I am so going to this, no matter what, it will rock.

[GulDukat]

Jean Luc would be far more diplomatic.

[bobbie solo]

What I see being a real issue is that Billy made it very clear in his texts that he sees this as a succeed or die moment for the band, and yet he set the aim so ridiculously high that there's almost no shot at succeeding heavily here. For the past year people have wondered why A Perfect Circle has been doing arenas when they aren't an arena band, and this is looking like the same sort of situation -- a band that isn't at all at the same peak they once were oddly believing that they'll be able to jump right back into being a gigantic act despite recent history suggesting otherwise.

What happens when tickets go on sale, and shows don't sell out right away, and they end up in half-filled arenas in the middle of nowhere? They're not promoting a successful new album, they have no big single, they have an incomplete reunion lineup that most people are unaware of and those who are know more about the dysfunction than anything else, there doesn't seem to be anything here that would indicate this tour will sell particularly well. Over 30 dates and all of them arenas. Is it going to be all seated? Are the 125 tickets seats on the floor? Who do they think is going to pay that? Some people obviously will, but not enough to fill in a room of 17,000-22,000.

If they'd done the reunion properly, had something new to show that was solid and promising and they had booked a string of theatres, sure, they could sell them out and build up to another run of larger venues. But, holy fuck, the only SP shows in the last two years have been glorified solo shows in theatres and I don't think they've been selling out at all. Before that you had some theatre dates and then a coheadlining amphitheatre run that seemed to do well, but nothing indicating this kind of a tour.

Billy is acting like this is what'll either make or break the band's future and yet it's a situation where there's very, very little chance of it being a giant success. He mentions some giant production with a static setlist -- is that what anybody has ever in a million years wanted from a Pumpkins show? That alone means no one will feel a need to see more than one date, and a bunch of these shows are in neighboring markets. It makes no sense to me. If it was a handful of arenas in the biggest markets, maybe it wouldn't seem as ridiculous, but this is a giant tour for a band that hasn't had any sort of mainstream presence in years.

I can't help but get the feeling that when this doesn't become a big thing, Billy will have a little fit of saying "See? Nobody actually wanted a nostalgia run, I was right all along," when in reality it'll be because he went about it in the worst possible way imaginable. It doesn't feel put together to create an environment of success, it feels designed to make a quick buck and then justify his years of cynicism and audience-blaming.

I would imagine it's been said plenty on here in the past, but once again...you're arguably the best poster on this board. Other than @Hazekiah of course.

[bobbie solo]

Another thing really working against this tour's ability to draw is doing it in the summer when the live music competition is at it's peak. The typical live music fan's dollar only goes so far, and now you're forcing people to choose. There are SO many tours and festivals now in the U.S. I think doing this in the fall might have been smarter, in addition to skipping some of the secondary markets that are listed and doing this tour for maybe only 5 or 6 weeks instead of 8. But what do I know? I thought the crazy prices for the Misfits reunion hometown show at Prudential Center would scare people away, and then it went and sold out within a few days of going on sale.

Be clear on this: someones job at Live Nation hangs in the balance on how this tour does. They are no dummies over there so I guess they have metrics they can point to, but whoever is in charge of the decision to go with a two month long full arena tour gamble has their ass on the line.

For me, the "big production" and static setlist details are a killer. Not much interest in seeing this when you take those details alongside the D'arcy scumbaggery. I will eagerly await the first setlist, and see if someone can put me on a list for the MSG show if it has some great deep cuts and not just the hits. I also hope we don't get garbage, sped up version of certain songs, like these live abortions:

[fillow]

like these live abortions:

Not sure what you mean here, Bodies is played at pretty much normal speed. Didn't they use to speed up Zero though, even with the original band?
You know what's an abortion? Try listening to any Bullet recording from Adore tour.

[Disassociative]

To be honest a part of me is hoping this tour crashes and burns after reading the D'arcy interview

[henryeatscereal]

I saw them live once (Teagarden era) and the show was awful, but to be fair it was an MTV Live special taping...

[Shadaloo]

He still makes music because it's part of who he is, and it's important to him. I get that. I don't think any artist has an obligation to create music "for fans" and that goes from Trent to Manson to Maynard to our favorite shiny-headed doofus to Al fucking Jourgensen. Teargarden's a pile of shit but if it was the right music for him to make at the time, good for him. I don't have to like it, but he's free to make whatever the fuck he wants.

He was always, always like this, back to the 90's. Difference was we never got quite the degree of transparency we get these days with social media, back then we got what we got from interviews and it was already bad enough. Now, even assuming he or someone in his group (*coughLindafuckingStrawberry*) leaked an out-of-context photo of D'Arcy and tried to make it look like she was zonked out on drugs or what have you...this kind of reaction from him is nothing new. A good portion of the guy's most horrible PR moments come from him cursing someone out for daring to oppose him: The Devi Ever pedal incident where he called her an ugly pig, the James and D'arcy comments from 2004, "Fuck you jimmy go ride around in a white van for the rest of your life" in 2008. It's how he reacts when he can't get his way or someone's a threat to him and there's a reason for that. There's a giant tantrum, disproportionate cursing and bile slung around for a day, and then he calms down.

And this happens because the guy is seriously mentally ill. I don't mean that in a pejorative sense but in the absolute truest definition of the phrase. I posted part of this on Netphoria earlier, but fuck it, I'll do it again:

There is barely a word on the wikipedia article describing narcissistic personality disorder that doesn't sound to me like an accurate description of BC's psyche.

It's why I don't hate him - I get frustrated, sure, but point in fact I really pity him, because he's severely mentally ill, always has been, and getting famous was arguably the absolute worst thing in the world to happen to him for the sake of his sanity. "A narcissist with sycophants". Think about the horror inherent in that phrase.

Doesn't excuse the way he treats others, but I always try to keep it in mind before I call him a scumbag piece of shit.

Childhood trauma as a potential trigger? Check. Obsessive need for validation? Check. Inflative sense of self-importance? Envy toward others (think of all the other bands he's shat on over the years)? Exploiting others for personal gain? Check, check, fucking check.

It's all right there. And when you look at how he's treated other people, all I see is symptoms of a classic cycle of abuse and it's all ultimately really sad.

I don't want the tour to do poorly, I want and hope for it to magically do really well so he can retire, get some closure, and maybe go back to being a dad, and hoping he doesn't fuck that up too. He probably will, but I think if it tanks his behavior's only going to get worse.

As for the EP, now that we know they didn't spend a month in the studio churning out one quick album, I'm crossing my fingers we can at least get something interesting. James might have only popped into the studio briefly to hear some stuff for the first time.

[GulDukat]

I saw them live once (Teagarden era) and the show was awful, but to be fair it was an MTV Live special taping...

Saw them in 2008 and it was a trainwreck. Every other time was very good, with the Oceania tour the best.

[henryeatscereal]

Saw them in 2008 and it was a trainwreck. Every other time was very good, with the Oceania tour the best.

I don't know what happened, maybe it was that current lineup; the crowd didn't help either, they taped the concert with the Pumpkins as openers with 30 seconds to Mars "closing" the show, so the crowd was divided, i left before 30STM.

Here's the concert if anyone cares:

[dvdglss]

If the cuts went to 22%, is it because Jeff was coming aboard? I mean, hes been a member at this point as Long or longer than Darcy? If the plan was always to play Old album material, then he doesn't deserve equal share, but that 12% to him?

I dunno.. speculating...

Personally, i'm excited. I've been a fan the whole time. I love the music.