The Ebola Thread

[cynicmuse]

I would be curious to know whether they were following CDC protocols or MSF (aka Doctors without Borders) protocols for protection gear and proper donning and removal of said gear. From what I gather, MSF has somewhat stricter protocols, and they've been successful at treating Ebola with very few cases of transmission to healthcare workers. However, they practice this stuff all the time. The previous hospitals that treated Ebola patients in the US were also biocontainment units... where all they do is train and treat these types of highly infectious patients. At least at Emory, one of the other biocontainment units, workers donning or removing gear are observed by a buddy. This article in the NYT seems to imply that they weren't doing that at the Dallas hospital.

I hadn't realized why Ebola was so infectious... it's due to the shear number of viruses floating around:

At the peak of illness, an Ebola patient can have 10 billion viral particles in one-fifth of a teaspoon of blood. That compares with 50,000 to 100,000 particles in an untreated H.I.V. patient, and five million to 20 million in someone with untreated hepatitis C.

[Satyr]

To me the most curious thing is that a nurse in a hazmat suit managed to become infected while none of the people that guy was in close contact with while symptomatic have become infected (at least we aren't being told if they are).

[Satyr]

http://gotnews.com/ebola-nurse-boyfr...bola-symptoms/

Rumors flying all around about more cases in Texas. Apparently the next 72 hours should be interesting.

[miss k bee]

One positive story on Nigeria which seems to have contained the spread by acting quickly

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...s-9794269.html

[Jinsai]

http://gotnews.com/ebola-nurse-boyfr...bola-symptoms/

Rumors flying all around about more cases in Texas. Apparently the next 72 hours should be interesting.

I'll wait until the news comes from a source where the comments section isn't flooded with people blaming Obama for it. What fucking website is this?

[Satyr]

I'll wait until the news comes from a source where the comments section isn't flooded with people blaming Obama for it. What fucking website is this?

I bet you also distrusted any news source that blamed Bush for everything.

[Jinsai]

I bet you also distrusted any news source that blamed Bush for everything.

Yeah, I don't get my news from blatantly biased sources. If someone blamed Bush for an ebola infection in the USA, I'd call them a fucking moron.

[Sutekh]

the west screwing Africa dry over the past 200 years probably has something to do with the infrastructural weaknesses that have enabled this pandemic... but you can't lay that at the feet of any one head of state, blame imperialism and it's bastard child neoliberalism

[DigitalChaos]

I was on a 5hr flight today and decided to watch the NOVA segment on Ebola. I'm not sure others around me enjoyed that but whatever. The experimental zmapp drug is pretty fascinating. It basically pauses ebola's ability to replicate and allows your body's natural antibodies to build up enough to kill it off. Typically, ebola just replicates much faster than the antibody production process. What is really crazy is the drug is derived from 3 different animal antibodies but they are now replicating them using tobacco plants! That's also why the drug is in crazy short supply and can't be made very fast.

[DigitalChaos]

I'm currently digging through some interesting data... there seems to be some data that is pointing toward asymptomatic carriers of ebola. This could mean that more people are being infected than we thought, that these people may be gaining immunity (yay!), and it's possible that these people could also transmit ala Typhoid Mary (fuck).

Needless to say, all of these things will change the reproductivity and transmission models everyone has been working with. Pretty sure the "worst case" models end up looking much more positive, as indicated in the graph in my 2nd link:

[ManBurning]

They're testing a potential vaccine made in Canada on 20 U.S. volunteers in Maryland.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/ebola-o...-u-s-1.2796859

[theruiner]

A second health care worker at that same Dallas hospital has tested positive for Ebola

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health...bola-outbreak/

[Satyr]

A second health care worker at that same Dallas hospital has tested positive for Ebola

http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/15/health...bola-outbreak/

The second infected health care worker spent a few days in Akron, Ohio then flew on an airliner from Cleveland to Dallas.

[Deepvoid]

The second infected health care worker spent a few days in Akron, Ohio then flew on an airliner from Cleveland to Dallas.

So between attending patient zero and today, couldn't she just take it easy for a couple weeks?
I get it. Virus is only transmissible via bodily fluids but shouldn't they be monitoring the staff that treated patient zero?

[Sutekh]

Don't mean to be ghoulish but anyone fancy placing some bets? I reckon by the end of the year there'll be about a dozen more cases in the west and the African crisis will peak around 20k

[cynicmuse]

So between attending patient zero and today, couldn't she just take it easy for a couple weeks?
I get it. Virus is only transmissible via bodily fluids but shouldn't they be monitoring the staff that treated patient zero?

Well, I don't think that they thought that any healthcare workers would get infected. If you look at the timeline, the second nurse had already left town before the the first one became sick. They are monitoring the staff now. This whole thing (treatment of an Ebola patient not at a biocontainment unit) was a bit of clusterfuck, if a somewhat necessary one. Now the people who deal with public health policy realize that any hospital can't treat Ebola. We'll see if they can treat it without any more transmissions with back up from properly trained personnel.

[Deepvoid]

Well, I don't think that they thought that any healthcare workers would get infected. If you look at the timeline, the second nurse had already left town before the the first one became sick. They are monitoring the staff now. This whole thing (treatment of an Ebola patient not at a biocontainment unit) was a bit of clusterfuck, if a somewhat necessary one. Now the people who deal with public health policy realize that any hospital can't treat Ebola. We'll see if they can treat it without any more transmissions with back up from properly trained personnel.

You first sentence is the key here.
We elect people to to think 3-4 moves advance. Pro-active thinking. You know, like a chess player.
Yet right now, officials are reacting to unfolding events. I honestly do not believe they have a good handle on the situation at this present moment.

One might understand why countries in Africa had issues with containment at first. We're looking at third world countries. You'd think protocols in place would be on another level in North America.
I think the breach of protocols excuse is BS. I think a lack of clear protocols caused the 2nd nurse to be infected. How the 3rd one got infected remains to be seen but I'm still baffled by the fact that she took an airplane in such a short period of time.

CDC needs to get their shit together.

[allegro]

CDC needs to get their shit together.

This is the understatement of the year.

[sentient02970]

You first sentence is the key here.
We elect people to to think 3-4 moves advance. Pro-active thinking. You know, like a chess player.
Yet right now, officials are reacting to unfolding events. I honestly do not believe they have a good handle on the situation at this present moment.

Exactly. You'd think this was just pulling the trigger on some semblance of a containment plan we had all hoped was getting set up way back when The Hot Zone was published.

[Charmingly Miserable]

For the record: If I get Ebola, I want visitors, FTD flowers, play Twister with a few people, have sex and webcast a 2 hour special via FB, twitter, and youtube. I also want free Little Caesar's cheese bread because I am most likely gonna die since I am a minority and the CDC doesn't care about treating minorities with efficiency.

[allegro]

I'm gonna smoke a whole carton of Salem Light 100s. And a pound of weed.

And I'm gonna go spit all over my asshole neighbor.

[Deepvoid]

We're being hard on CDC...
Looks like it's the nurse's fault again. They told her not to take a place. She didn't listen.

"Health care workers who had been exposed to Duncan were undergoing self-monitoring. They were allowed to travel but not on a commercial plane with other people, Frieden said."
Yeah because, Ebola sounds like the kinda disease which only requires self-monitoring. Wait there's more...

"The worker had a temperature of 99.5 Fahrenheit (37.5 Celsius) before she boarded her flight, he added."
How the fuck does he know that? Did someone took her temperature at the gates? Sounds like this is her last temperature on record. When was it recorded though? While she was self-monitoring?

"Moving forward, the CDC will ensure that no one else in such a situation travels outside of a closed environment, he said."
Thank fucking god we're not dealing with Influenza.

[allegro]

We're being hard on CDC...
Looks like it's the nurse's fault again. They told her not to take a place. She didn't listen.

"Health care workers who had been exposed to Duncan were undergoing self-monitoring. They were allowed to travel but not on a commercial plane with other people, Frieden said."
Yeah because, Ebola sounds like the kinda disease which only requires self-monitoring. Wait there's more...

"The worker had a temperature of 99.5 Fahrenheit (37.5 Celsius) before she boarded her flight, he added."
How the fuck does he know that? Did someone took her temperature at the gates? Sounds like this is her last temperature on record. When was it recorded though? While she was self-monitoring?

"Moving forward, the CDC will ensure that no one else in such a situation travels outside of a closed environment, he said."
Thank fucking god we're not dealing with Influenza.

See, "self-monitoring." People are fucking LYING. Selfish.Mother.Fuckers. That Duncan, if he wasn't dead, I'd shoot that fucker into outer space myself with a fucking semiautomatic weapon. People just can't be trusted to "do the right thing" and they just want to go on, blindly, as if nothing is going to happen. "Oh, yeah, what's a little Ebola, until I'm puking and projectile pooping, relax, everything's just fine."

I now have zero confidence in the CDC.

Does Lysol kill Ebola? I'm turning into Joan Rivers, walking around spraying Lysol on everything.

My friends are emailing me; "how are you? I'm great! Could be worse, at least I don't have EBOLA!" Some of them are having drinking parties, drinking that they don't have Ebola.

In the meantime, I'm gonna go get my flu shot.

[Dra508]

Can we just blame all of this on the US Congress? Maybe if they actually funded government programs more effectively we wouldn't all be wigging out about this. Research on vaccines, bio hazard blah blah blah and proper training on all of it might actually happen. I know these major hospitals and cities have probably had enormous funding, training, and practice on dealing with mass casualty situations, but the plague. Nah, it won't come here.. If I hear one person, just one try to blame this on the US government and then bitch about their taxes, I'm going freak out on them.....

[DigitalChaos]

One might understand why countries in Africa had issues with containment at first. We're looking at third world countries. You'd think protocols in place would be on another level in North America.

...

CDC needs to get their shit together.

Something to keep in mind is that Africa had some serious issues with the public believing that Ebola was real. They thought their corrupt government was making shit up with the goal of getting money from other countries. It spread like crazy because nobody was trusting the official message.

The CDC is on the edge of building public distrust for multiple reasons.

[allegro]

Can we just blame all of this on the US Congress? Maybe if they actually funded government programs more effectively more we wouldn't all be wigging out about this. Research on vaccines, bio hazard blah blah blah and proper training on all of it might actually happen. I know these major hospitals and cities have probably had enormous funding, training, and practice on dealing with mass casualty situations, but the plague. Nah, it won't come here.. If I hear one person, just one try to blame this on the US government and then bitch about their taxes, I'm going freak out on them.....

Exactly. It's like all these idiots bitching about the Aurora En Route Air Traffic Control facility being down for over 2 weeks because one contract worker decided to try to commit suicide and took out several million dollars' worth of equipment and fucked up air travel for, what, a half a day??? 4,000 flights canceled at O'Hare and Midway and people were bitching that they didn't get "advance warning." Um, some fucking dude was lying on the floor with a knife in his hand, slitting his own fucking throat, and politicians bitching that there's no "backup system" for that ATC center. It takes TWO FUCKING YEARS to train each Air Traffic Controller to work EACH SECTOR of sky and you want to be able to flip a fucking switch and have "backup" and THERE WAS NO FUCKING BUDGET TO HAVE A SECURITY GUARD DOWNSTAIRS TO GUARD THE EQUIPMENT THAT THE THROAT-SLITTING GUY TOOK OUT? You know how much "security" was at that building? A guy at a fucking guard shack. CONGRESS WOULDN'T APPROVE A BUDGET INCREASE, REMEMBER THAT??? Every year, they wouldn't raise the debt ceiling? FEDERAL FURLOUGH, remember that????? My husband had to work WITH NO FUCKING PAY FOR TWO FUCKING WEEKS last year, remember that? And all these politicians on TV saying "oh, the humanity, we need to improve the system!!!" With WHAT? HALLOWEEN CANDY???? All fucking lip-service.

It'll be interesting to see who's gonna pay for all this CDC shit. The Tea Party people are gonna make Africa pay for it, heh.

[DigitalChaos]

Exactly. You'd think this was just pulling the trigger on some semblance of a containment plan we had all hoped was getting set up way back when The Hot Zone was published.

Let me just share this... I know someone who works at a clinic very near to one of the potential US infections that popped up within the last week. They waited until a few days after it was known that they could be accepting an Ebola patient to figure out if their suits even fit.

[Your Name Here]

..................

[elevenism]

Don't mean to be ghoulish but anyone fancy placing some bets? I reckon by the end of the year there'll be about a dozen more cases in the west and the African crisis will peak around 20k

@Sutekh , i think you're on the money. But it's actually going to be worse. The WHO reported yesterday that we will be looking at 10,000 new cases PER WEEK by december.
And as far as what you asked about my other post, my answer is BOTH. We don't know enough about ebola yet, and yes, the media is concsciously downplaying the danger.

And finally, OH SHIT, @allegro ! I think you misread my statement and i would have addressed it more quickly if i had been at home. I wasn't pointing fingers or trying to start shit! I don't want shit with ANYONE here. I'm sorry if it came out that way!
I was just mentioning the names of people who had said meaningful things and then airing MY thoughts. The hostile tone was aimed at the media and the CDC, not you guys. @Sutekh , @Jinsai , i'm sorry if you guys took it the wrong way as well.

Edit: oh, and BTW, while we won't have dead bodies in the streets here like we did in africa, we will have our own problems...ignorance and lack of preperadness.
I bet we wind up with at LEAST a thousand cases here.

[allegro]

I bet we wind up with at LEAST a thousand cases here.

God, I hope not.

How about this...if you need a fucking hazmat suit IN THE FIRST PLACE, then the pathogen is probably pretty fucking contagious.

"It's not that contagious! Don't worry! The nurse just fucked up putting on her zombie apocalypse style protective gear, that's all!"

I can't remember who all said what, @Jinsai , @allegro , @Sutekh .

You can see how it could be "misunderstood?" No worries, though, you've clarified.