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That does help that section of the movie seem a little less like a worthless waste of time, but I still got prequel flashbacks and I still think it should have been drastically trimmed down, especially the part where Spoiler: they ride those animals through the casino. That part was god-awful.Originally Posted by thelastdisciple
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I'm not sure if anyone has seen this but goddamn, this is hilarious about why The Phantom Menace was such a disappointment from the man who did the voice of Darth Maul:
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There is already a big problem, if after watching 4 minutes of not-so-obvious plot explaining, your thoughts can't be summed up with an oh wow, but rather just an oh...
It makes perfect sense, but had no real weight in the movie, aside from one cheesy line, after defeating one cheesy villain, after a short and cheesy fight. Imagine a story, where your confused protagonist is not convinced by some high-school quality speech about how rich people are bad, but by actual, meaningful stuff.
And to top it all off, Rose's stunt at the end established that there's the Resistance and there's Rose's Resistance, the latter being some utopistic fever-dream about how love conquers all. You can't make a mature movie about war and reap all the feelgood stuff with Rose as well. Finn has finally chosen a side to die for, and Rose's like "nu-uuuuh". I hope in episode IX the Resistance will have absolutely no weapons, because Rose will have confiscated them all.
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TIL Ray Park didn't do the voice of Darth Maul.
Throbbing Member
Excellent breakdown of why dudes in particular seem to give the movie hatehttps://bittergertrude.com/2018/01/0...mpression=true
Active Member
I don't know. There always are idiots who "hate" on a movie, band, artist for bullshit reasons such as those cited in this article. But I'm a dude and I'd "hate" or "denounce" (the use of that words [instead of, say, "criticism"] in the article alone is telling) that film for plotholes, silliness, script, story, implausibility and stuff...
So to wash away those (fair) criticisms with a sweeping "they're just sexist and it's only about gender" seems like an easy way for TLJ fans to render any criticism towards the movie as invalid in their world. And that's kinda stupid, too.
Throbbing Member
But dude, read the article! You don't like the film so the problems are internalized sexist narrative tropes. It's not like Leia's space walk is just a shitty idea with bad visuals, no, you just can't accept the fact that it's a female using the force.
Oh, and by the way ... I don't want to nitpick but one thing came to my mind:
I really like Rey's and Kylo's arc in TLJ, but c'mon. Rey is too powerful. The article tries to make the point that Luke also had no training and was "able to stand against Vader for a lengthy lightsaber battle before escaping".
Wat? Luke got his fucking ass kicked. He didn't stand a chance and consequently lost his hand. That was the whole point Yoda was trying to make. And that's not remotely close to the failure Rey's been facing. Oh, and when it comes to using the force, Luke also didn't manage to pull the X-Wing out of the swamp on Dagobah.
Again, I like Rey and I'm not hating on this. But it's just crazy to compare her with Luke (who's at least the son of the most powerful Jedi/Sith so it makes sense why he's strong with the force).
Last edited by niggo; 01-07-2018 at 06:59 AM.
Throbbing Member
Wow, the person who wrote that seemed to be digging a little deep for some sort of outmoded societal views being laced into people's view of this film. I don't know. It kind of feels like a fair amount of that presentation is cherry picked strawman arguing. Are people who don't like TLJ not allowed to simply dislike it because they feel it's not good storytelling, or not in good keeping with the mythos?
Really, if we are being fair, a solid number of the people who are having issues with TLJ are the same people who praised TFA.
Active Member
What a garbage, wow. First of all, check out her other articles: sexism, sexism, men, Trump, fuck white people, sexism, men, men...
"Any woman strong in the force without male oversight is a problem for the angry male internet" What an open-minded and absolutely not rude thing to say. This is why you don't prank grils with glasses in school, because they will end up writing shit like this. Sorry, not girls; females. I feel sorry for anyone whose news source is a person who can profile you just by looking at your genitals and skin color AND have the audacity to preach about people judgind by your genitals and skin color. The article is filled with contradictions left and right, but the power of wanting to hate someone is strong enough to not worry about that. But let's not be like Melissa Hillman, and let's see one of her funniest arguments:
"Instead of seeing this film for what it is, people are criticizing it for not conforming to the expectations they have of female characters."
How dumb can you be? These FEMALES have done exactly what you would expect.
- Female leader being incompetent and indirectly murdering almost her entire crew? Check.
- Male subordinate being impatient (again, just after being lectured by another female leader to not be) and seizing the powerr easily? Check.
- Male subordinate having people, even other females backing him up during the mutiny against a female leader? Check.
- Female leaders confessing how said male subordinate is one of their favorites, because he acts like the stereotypical tough guy, and there is just nothing sexier than that? Check.
- Male trying to do something heroic, but his female "grilfriend wannabe" stops him at the last time, like in some anime, and confesses her love to him? Check.
- Strongest female trooper in the First Order getting humiliated again? Check.
These women were like servants, who acted cool and tough. The only girl who actually achieved something was Rey, though the throne room events were more on Kylo, than her. If you want a good movie about a female protagonist, who doesn't act like a moron, then watch The Force Awakens. I admit, some of the cockpit scenes with Han were a wee bit over the top, but aside from that, Rey was pretty fucking cool and likeable.
The problem is that American culture - especially since their politics got turned upside down - is about the extremes now, and everything needs to be polarized. For everything that happens in the world, whether it's a serious political event or just a goddamn movie, there are two types of discussions: The American(tm) one and the normal one. The normal one is like what us, plebs are used to: some arguments with the inevitable cock-measuring contest lurking in the shadows. Then the USA contingent kicks in the door, grab their guns, make everyone stand to a wall, and everything is ceise and desizted now. Forget everything you talked before, here are the real important stuff: FEMALES, racism, gender, misoginy, alt-right, libtard, Trump, Hillary, sexual orientation. Pick a side! It doesn't matter if you live in Cambodia, Lithuania, Ivory Coast or if we even heard about these countries; we want you to talk about the important stuff, which is the United States of America. Every single issue in the world can be tracked back to some US agenda. Nothing can happen without it not being the concern for the US citizens.
Absolutely ridiculous. Not just this garbage attitude and how it bleeds into everything nowadays on the internet, but also how an article by one shitty human being trying to criticize other shitty human beings can be praised by anyone, or considered to have an "excellent breakdown" of anything other than herself.
EDIT: Good fucking job guys... How am I supposed to be the lone freedom fighter when you all make sensible comments in a row? It doesn't fit my narrative, and now I'm suddenly in the majority. Stop it.
Last edited by Volband; 01-07-2018 at 07:25 AM.
Active Member
Anywho, looking forward to getting the blu-ray in March.
http://comicbook.com/starwars/2018/0...-release-date/
Throbbing Member
I know I’m looking forward to it. Certainly is my favorite Star Wars film after RotJ.
Active Member
just watched my favorite post original is rogue one biggest flaw needing a super weapon.
-Louie
House Always Wins
Can't wait.
I really want the poster from this week for AMC's 4 exclusive poster series (I went the first week and got the Luke/Rey variant). Might have to go cruising eBay for it.
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That poster is fucking awesome. Also, I'm gonna die if the movie comes out in March on video because I'm dying to watch it again.
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I love them.
This is the one I got the weekend I went:
This was week two:
This was the third week:
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Got that one too! I'm trying to remember who did a vinyl release for TFA with this artist but I'm hoping they do that again with the TLJ soundtrack.
RA-MEN ROPPAI
Dan Mumford is an amazing artist whose style transcends genre.
EDIT: I Am Shark did the vinyl. There were 4 variants: Poe, Rey, Finn, and Phasma.
Last edited by Jon; 01-07-2018 at 08:12 PM.
House Always Wins
I didn't get a poster when The Force Awakens came out since I seen it opening night and they didn't offer it.
Same!
I know! I'm too late to the party as I want one of them (Phasma mainly, or the Finn/Ren one) but they sell for upwards of $200.00. Fuck that!
Behold the morning star
I was called a sexist racist bigot for saying I hated the Rose character.
Throbbing Member
Alright, so what did people understand the Snoke guards clad in red to be? If they were just people shouldn’t Kylo and Rey have been able to make quick work of them with some simple force abilities? Or were the guards also supposed to be force users who could sense and defend against force attacks?
House Always Wins
Ever since seeing the film, I've heavily read and watched as much as I could about the Elite Praetorian Guard.
Essentially, they are the First Order's homage to Emperor Palpatine's Crimson Guard. They serve as Snoke's bodyguards first and foremost. Out of movie and fictional talk, the Crimson Guard were a favorite and (I forgot who it was specifically) the filmmakers wanted to showcase how cunning bodyguards to the Leader could be. Unlike their inspirational successors, Praetorian Guards each received a specific weapon and different helmet design for unique identification. There was a scene in mind for showing how adept at fighting they could be. That is the scene we got in the film. For non force sensitive characters, they did put up quite a good fight.
Active Member
Who's to say you're not?... the more you try and defend yourself the more bigoted you will seem.
This thread has been more entertaining and more strange than any other in recent memory.
Anyhow, I have spent enough time discussing this movie to conclude that it is entirely enjoyable as long as you don't think about it too deeply.
Active Member
In this thread? Because I read most of the comments, and I don't recall it right now. The PC army mostly fights with facepalms here, but after reading that garbage article I kinda understand why, as people who type those mental gymnastics out, look rather... vulnerable to common sense.
It's almost like how the Force is explained in TLJ: it needs balance. For everyone hating characters based on their gender or race, there has to be an equal amount of people who put this movie on a shield, and would say the same things ("Rose is like, totes the best character I've ever seen in cinema") without even seeing the movie. Did you read the last, I don't know, 7 or so pages in this thread? Have you seen anyone write something like "Rose/Holdo/Leia/Rey was amazing, I really liked them and their arc. One thing that might've been a little bad/dumb/inconsistent/unpolished was [...]" ? I save you the time of re-reading all the posts: no, you have not. They are perfect. I said perfect.
It's funny in a bitter way, that the biggest adversary for these movies with a modern approach are their very own apologists. Compare these movies with learning how to ride a bike. I think most of us had our fair share of accidents. I know I got cocky to the point where I started going as fast as i could, until my leg slipped off, into the wheel it went, and I fell like a piece of wood. Being buried under a bike and in agony is an amazing opportunity to reevaluate things. That's how you learn, that's how you adjust, that's how you get better. It's true for basically everything in life. But imagine falling with your bike, and being cheered on by people: "Amazing! You are doing just great!" "You are like Lance Armstrong, but without the steroids!" "I'm not exaggerating, when I say this: you are not only the best biker I've ever seen, but you are also a wonderful person." Why would you change anything if you have a bunch of people blindly praising anything you do, because you areone of their poster child?
And the biker example is not even that good, because at least you hurt yourself during accidents, so you are still kinda inclined to aim for being better, but when your movie reaps in the $$$ and such a mundane and unoriginal character like Rose can be called (unironically, may I add) one of the best characters in any movie, then you just found the recipe for laziness. Why would you bother with writing an actual character and plot-line, when you can just "cast a Rose" and get away with everything?
Also, have you seen anyone successfully reason with these people? Like, ever? I've seen plenty of arguments for and against Snoke's death, Luke's death, Luke's exile, so basically stuff that doesn't really involves an agenda. But whenever it's about Rose and Holdo being bags of bricks, all you hear is crickets chirping. They are just amazing because they are amazing, that's all you hear. There are Walter Whites, Nucky Thmpsons and Kim Wexlers, who can get away with such. But you don't hear much about Kim Wexler (from Better Call Saul), do you? She is wildly recognized as one of the most real and well-written characters. She has flaws and strenghts (aka she's a human being) and she is a very delicate representation of the struggles of being a woman in a highly-contested and male-dominated area such as a career in law.
How many articles do you think Melissa Hillman wrote about Kim Wexler? Get ready for a surprise: zero. Her only goal is to be upset, so she has to ignore the Kim Wexlers. Everyone likes Kim Wexler. Men, women, possibly aliens. She is a real success story in the showbiz'. So fuck her. What about Rose? A shallow, boring and uninspired figure, who is under some heavy-crossfire. Well duh, she is obviously the epitome of female representation in Hollywood (meanwhile Jennifer Jason Leigh is crying in a corner), because she is nice, and girls are nice, and oh my god, did I tell you how amazing she is?
All in all I have no idea if you are a sexist, racist bigot or not, but I'm fairly convinced that being dissatisfied with Rose's character and the way she was written would actually imply the opposite.
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They were amazing and terrifying. I think I got too used to seeing the clean lightsaber fights in the prequels because when this fight happened, I was terrified. They moved with purpose and had a counter for everything. It didn't even seem like an indirect lightsaber strike did anything to their armor and that it took a direct impaling move to damage and/or kill them. They were amazing and I'm really hoping we get a book or comic series out of them.
Behold the morning star
What the fuck?
Behold the morning star
No not here, at least until now.
Active Member
Well, then being called anything on the internet is... not as surprising, is it? I think portraying everyone who really liked TLJ as ignorant or over-triggered is similar to wash up everyone who had some major dislikes with the movies with "haters" and "dumb petiotionists" or something.
To be fair, I have read many-many opinions, where they overally liked TLJ (like (8-9/10) but could admit to some of its glaring flaws, so it's not like it is not widely accepted that both Rose and her subplot are suboptimal.
Unintelligible Whispering
Extremely effective ways to sell a single toy mold several times over with minor physical variations and different accessories.
I'm going to call them Starscream, Thundercracker, Skywarp, Ramjet, Dirge, Thrust, Sunstorm and Acid Storm.
Administrator
Raphael, Donatello, Michelangelo, Leonardo, Tokka, Razar, Bebop & Rocksteady.
Throbbing Member
Haha, pretty funny. You’re probably right in real world context, but I was asking about in-universe context. It struck me as odd that Kylo had just used a simple force trick to kill Snoke, but then immediately after he almost got choked-out by the guard. Wasn’t sure what the deal with those guards was and how they kept up with Kylo and Rey in a fight. At the movie this image kept playing in my mind as to what should have happened,
In any event, they looked cool and it was an entertaining fight scene.
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